Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-08-08

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 meppl good night
00:02 pugs_svn r21842 | ruoso++ | [smop] adding the test for lexical scopes
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01:09 pugs_svn r21843 | ruoso++ | [smop] lexical scope almost implemented! only the lookup implementation is missing!
01:14 * ruoso sleep &
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05:24 Carrie Which sorts of buildings are more likely to house potentially harmful molds?
05:26 masak Carrie: caves?
05:26 masak anyways, this seems more of a Perl 5 question than a Perl 6 question to me
05:27 was kicked by TimToady: TimToady
05:34 TimToady Webchat appears to be some kind of trollbot, actually; it's been here before...
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05:44 masak it's 2008, and we have such things as trollbots. the present grows ever more futuristic. :)
05:59 masak what's the value of $0 at the start of a program/block, before any matches?
05:59 masak or rather, is it legal to refer to it?
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06:17 pugs_svn r21844 | bacek++ | [spec] Unfudge test for rakudo. Hash composer is implemented since r30104
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06:49 masak would $str.subst('foo','bar') work like $str.subst(/foo/,'bar') or like $str.subst(rx:g/foo/,'bar') ?
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08:35 pugs_svn r21845 | pmurias++ | [STD] handles errors from an eval (grammars need a lineof)
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08:59 pugs_svn r21846 | pmurias++ | [sm0p] added a lineof method to unbrake it
09:01 pmurias @tell ruoso the lexical pad is missing from the repo
09:01 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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09:37 pugs_svn r21847 | ruoso++ | [smop] ruoso-- keeps missing to add files
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09:58 riffraff hi
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11:00 pmurias @tell ruoso why did you make SMOP__ID__entries and SMOP__ID_lookup static, is there a rule?
11:00 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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11:16 pmurias i'm porting the elf sm0p backend to m0ld for now, as i don't have enough pugs/haskell skills to come up with a working backend design
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13:05 pmurias what's the state of PIL2, i noticed that PIL2 generators are commented out and the ones which don't specify the  PIL version are marked deprecated
13:05 pmurias s/,/?
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13:28 pmurias i get an useless use of constant warning when using -Cjson or -Cyaml
13:30 pugs_svn r21848 | pmurias++ | [pugs] a empty m0ld backend placeholder
13:35 pmurias and the output of -Cyaml containes a first line consisting of strange characters
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14:37 pugs_svn r21849 | fglock++ | [PCR] added new-engine branch (at misc/pX/fglock/)
14:39 pugs_svn r21850 | fglock++ | [PCR] clean up the release branch
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14:43 pmurias diakopter: hi!
14:43 diakopter pmurias: ih
14:45 pmurias what's up?
14:45 diakopter my 9 day absence approached an event horizon
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14:47 pmurias i don't understand
14:48 diakopter I was away longer than anticipated
14:48 diakopter from some frames of reference
14:49 diakopter sudden home change, sudden marriage change, sudden job change, sudden health change
14:49 diakopter (s)
14:51 pmurias what's the state of yap6?
14:53 * diakopter 7ups
14:53 diakopter (svn ups)
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14:55 diakopter oops
14:56 cmarcelo left #perl6
14:56 diakopter sry moritz_ for the blatant/destructive elevation of privileges & arbitrary execution security hole
14:59 pmurias the security hole wasn't really important as it's easy to evalbot backends can execute anything they wont
14:59 pmurias s/wont/want/g
14:59 speckbot r14573 | larry++ | clarify that &foo is a real function even when representing a multiple dispatch
14:59 speckbot r14573 | larry++ | s/q:code/quasi/
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15:01 * diakopter backlogs a few tens of thousands of words
15:09 [particle] TimToady: is there a way to see the list of signatures that are contained in &foo?
15:09 [particle] like, would &foo.perl do it?
15:10 TimToady erm
15:10 TimToady that might give you the sigs and a whole lot more
15:10 [particle] right, a lot more
15:10 [particle] but it should list the sigs
15:11 [particle] narrowing down, is there a way to get just the sigs?
15:11 TimToady I suspect using .sig or whatever will just return a multisig
15:11 TimToady it's just a property, after all
15:11 TimToady well, a trait
15:12 TimToady no such thing as properties in p6 really
15:13 TimToady possibly it's even a Junction of sigs, since the ordering is determined by the dispatcher
15:13 [particle] so it's easy to get the info you need to write your own dispatcher
15:13 [particle] ok, good.
15:14 [particle] i like Junction, but Set may be ok, too
15:14 TimToady presumably there's gotta be some way, or the standard dispatcher can't do it either  :)
15:14 TimToady might be more useful to store a partial ordering
15:15 [particle] hrmm, what about 'only'
15:15 TimToady what about it?
15:15 [particle] how is that distinguished?
15:16 [particle] i mean, it can't be a junction
15:16 [particle] it could be a Junction with a constraint of one alternative, if that's possible
15:16 [particle] i don't know how to specify that subset, though
15:17 TimToady the user shouldn't care how many things there are in a junction
15:17 TimToady $foo ~~ $bar doesn't need to know the arity of $bar
15:17 TimToady or the whateverity
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15:17 TimToady $capture ~~ &foo.sig either works or doesn't
15:18 [particle] when building up the multisigs, the compiler needs to know if it's allowable to add another sig to something that's previously been declared with 'only'
15:18 TimToady regardless of whether .sig returns a junction or a signature
15:18 [particle] this isn't dispatcher execution, really
15:18 TimToady sure, but that's not info in the sigs
15:18 [particle] ok
15:19 [particle] it has to be stored somewhere, though
15:19 TimToady well, at least till the end of scope in the compiler
15:19 [particle] at runtime, can you add a sig to something previously declared as only?
15:21 TimToady hmm, if you add a sig to an existing Code, it would depend on how the compiler wrote the call
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15:21 TimToady if it uses the same dispatch mechanism, it would be transparent
15:21 TimToady but only subs are more likely to be inlined
15:22 TimToady in which case, I'd say it's erroneous to add a sig to the object
15:23 TimToady I take onliness to be a strong hint that you can optimize the heck out of the calls
15:23 TimToady esp for lexically scoped subs
15:23 [particle] the 'inline' equivalent
15:24 [particle] that's nice to have
15:24 TimToady "is inline" is more of a warning to anyone who is reading the code; the compiler makes its own decision
15:24 [particle] sure, that's the same in c
15:25 [particle] gcc and msvc anyway
15:25 TimToady possibly "is !inline" is more imprtant :)
15:25 [particle] isnt inline
15:26 TimToady "is " is really just sugar for ':'
15:26 [particle] isnt could be sugar for :!
15:26 [particle] i'm not quite sure that's getting carried away
15:26 TimToady it bugs the proscriptive grammarian in me
15:27 [particle] well, isn't could be made to work
15:27 [particle] but 'tis uglier
15:27 TimToady indeed, but spurious ' will confuse syntax highlighters
15:28 [particle] unless they use the parse tree
15:28 TimToady I suppose we could allow ' in identifiers generally as long as they're surrounded by \w
15:29 [particle] as long as ' doesn't mean ::
15:29 TimToady presumably same rule for - if we decided to be Lispish
15:30 [particle] yes, it'd be nice not no reach for that shift key so frequently
15:30 TimToady $a-sqrt(2)
15:30 TimToady can get away with more given strictural defaults
15:31 TimToady "No such routine in scope "a-sqrt"
15:31 [particle] true, it gives much better errors having strict as default
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15:32 TimToady and it would be nicer for poetry to have apostrophes
15:32 [particle] i suppose then we could have .can't and .doesn't methods
15:32 TimToady someone whack me upside the head with a halibut before I do this  :)
15:33 [particle] sunday is my 35th birthday. do it for me :)
15:33 TimToady q'foo' is a problem
15:34 [particle] i don't see a way around that
15:34 TimToady q 'foo'
15:34 [particle] 'foo':q doesn't work
15:34 TimToady 'foo':q too
15:35 [particle] bad weighting
15:35 [particle] that's the s///mg problem
15:36 TimToady well, at least q'foo' is an immediate parse error on the second '
15:36 [particle] ws works, but it's another big departure from perl 5
15:36 [particle] not that there's anything wrong with that
15:36 TimToady ws is important in English
15:36 [particle] so an identifier couldn't end in ' ?
15:36 TimToady correct
15:37 [particle] ah, right, you said \w surrounding
15:37 TimToady and 'tis would be Right Out
15:37 [particle] yep, no irish poetry (which is some of the best)
15:37 [particle] 'oer is gone too. cya shakespeare6
15:37 TimToady 'twas the decade before Christmas, and all through the net...
15:37 TimToady that o'er
15:37 TimToady so okay
15:38 [particle] ah yes, and e'er
15:38 TimToady I should try putting it into STD and see what hiccups
15:39 TimToady but it's sorta just like the _ rule in numbers
15:39 [particle] nice to have a working parser
15:40 TimToady I think restricting it to being before alpha would be wise
15:40 TimToady no $foo-1
15:40 [particle] agreed
15:40 [particle] damian would have a field day with that
15:41 TimToady use apostrophe < ' - + >
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15:42 [particle] use inner_alpha < ' - + >
15:43 [particle] apostrophe isn't really a grammatical category
15:43 [particle] use mark < ' - + >
15:44 [particle] or use apostrophic <...>
15:45 TimToady blows up on line 3 of parsing STD  :)
15:45 [particle] hee
15:45 TimToady dunno why yet
15:48 TimToady hmm, my LTMer is losing the * on [\w|<['-]><.alpha>]*
15:53 TimToady hmm, that didn't work either...
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15:54 TimToady okay, think I snuck it past the LTM using <.identish> [<[ ' \- ]><identish>]*
15:55 TimToady I note that $x-$y is saved only by the presence of the second sigil
15:57 TimToady whee, parses itself
15:57 TimToady now to see how much of t/ we broke...
15:58 TimToady passes all of sanity
15:58 TimToady the fact that we already require space after listops and keywords is helping
16:00 TimToady t/blocks is good
16:01 TimToady t/builtins is good
16:02 [particle] this is crazy. having a working parser is *awesome*
16:02 [particle] this may be the first change to the language proven correct (to the extent that tests can prove anything)
16:05 TimToady also have to prove it's parsing it correctly though :)
16:05 TimToady but through examples now
16:05 [particle] true enough
16:05 [particle] what's your expectation as to the current correctness of the parsing overall?
16:05 [particle] 93%?
16:06 TimToady but the ident LTM is [_[:alpha:]]\w*(?:['\-][_[:alpha:]]\w*)* which looks right
16:06 TimToady it'll be a lot higher after I get symbol tables and see what has been swept under the carpet of postdeclarations
16:06 [particle] looks correct to me
16:07 TimToady through macros, working on oo
16:08 TimToady oo good
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16:10 [particle] i've installed yaml and moose
16:12 [particle] should 'make' be working in src/perl6 ?
16:12 [particle] i get STD.pmc did not return a true value
16:13 [particle] oh, make clean isn't really cleaning well
16:14 TimToady operators good
16:14 [particle] ok, got tre, too
16:14 TimToady means the gimme5 failed
16:14 TimToady or you don't have tre  :)
16:14 [particle] I CAN HAZ STD!
16:15 [particle] it's working.
16:15 TimToady Really Hard™
16:15 [particle] should make clean remove STD5.pm, STD.pmc, and try5.out?
16:15 TimToady there is no STD5.pm anymore
16:16 TimToady STD.pmc is the new black
16:16 TimToady don't care about try5.out
16:16 [particle] ah, ok, so that was old and laying about
16:16 [particle] ok, then Makefile is fine
16:16 iblechbot joined #perl6
16:17 TimToady well, up to regex/propcharset, but that takes half of forever to parse
16:17 [particle] do you parallelize at all?
16:17 TimToady surprised I haven't found a q'foo' yet
16:17 TimToady no
16:17 TimToady race conditions in the LTM cache
16:18 TimToady (disk cache, all the stuff down in lex/)
16:18 TimToady need to clean all that up at some point
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16:19 TimToady rather than store each digraph in a separate file, I plan to have a single file with just lists of rule numbers that could match, and appending is easier to transactionalize
16:20 TimToady might run faster too
16:20 pugs_svn r21851 | particle++ | remove trailing tab from STD Makefile
16:20 TimToady though NYTProf doesn't report all that much time slurping digraph data
16:20 [particle] ok, now i know what to install next :)
16:22 [particle] how are you running your examples, and profiling them?
16:23 [particle] perl -d:NYTProf ???
16:23 [particle] or have you an alias for that
16:24 TimToady I've only ever profiled compiling STD
16:25 TimToady but I'll probably do propcharset.t at some point just because it takes soooo loooong
16:25 TimToady assuming I don't run out of disk space
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16:28 [particle] i ran out of disk while creating minicpan
16:29 [particle] so i'll have to add another virtual disk to my vm
16:31 TimToady so of *course* our TV blows up the night before the Olympics start...
16:31 [particle] /\bq'/ only appears six times in t/ according to ack
16:31 [particle] and 5 are 'q'
16:31 TimToady what about \bq'[a-zA-Z]
16:32 [particle] one is q'STUB: ...' in t/spec/S12-methods/calling_sets.t
16:32 [particle] line 97
16:32 TimToady okay, that one will blow up
16:32 TimToady or should
16:33 [particle] after half of forever, well find out
16:33 TimToady done with that half of forever, working on properties.t now
16:33 [particle] how do i run std against t/S12-methods/ ?
16:33 TimToady which is about another 1/4 of forever
16:34 TimToady tryfile t/spec/S12-methods/calling_sets.t
16:34 TimToady well, make a t symlink first
16:34 [particle] ah, ok. i'm running ./teststd modified to that dir
16:34 [particle] but i'll do tryfile next time
16:37 TimToady oh wait, yours won't blow up because I didn't check in the ident change
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16:40 [particle] er, duh.
16:43 [particle] i could probably try myself
16:45 TimToady well, it's already looking good enough I'm just gonna check it in and see what happens
16:51 pugs_svn r21852 | lwall++ | [STD] allow ' and - in ident (but only before a letter)
16:51 TimToady yes, it did blow up on t/spec/S12-methods/calling_sets.t nicely
16:51 TimToady feel free to fix it
16:52 TimToady shower &
16:58 TimToady t/unspecced/sort.t also fails q:to'stuff'
16:59 TimToady done, those are the only two failures--looks like you get your "isn't"
17:00 TimToady shower really &
17:09 [particle] wow! i'll fix after my phone call
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17:35 speckbot r14574 | larry++ | allow isolated ' and - in identifiers (only if followed by alpha)
17:36 [particle] hrmm. $1-foo
17:37 [particle] or make that $1-foo()
17:41 pugs_svn r21853 | particle++ | update tests to match spec from previous commit (trystd++)
17:42 [particle] stupid fingers, that should have been teststd++
17:42 TimToady 1 isn't an identifier
17:42 TimToady but it occurs to me that STD probably won't have caught many \w-\w errors
17:43 TimToady so you probably want to ack for those
17:44 TimToady 'tis possible that we enable only apostrophe:<'> by default, and just make it easy to add apostrophe:<->
17:44 TimToady depending on how many problems you find
17:44 TimToady biab &
17:44 audreyt rehi
17:46 [particle] howdy
17:56 pmurias joined #perl6
17:57 pasteling "rhr" at 65.94.11.172 pasted "\w-\w from t" (9 lines, 647B) at http://sial.org/pbot/31839
17:57 rhr all the \w-\w I can find in t are basically $foo-1
17:57 [particle] and that's just fine
17:59 rhr ah, I didn't realize the after-part needs to begin with alpha
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18:08 pmurias audreyt: you are aware of the useless use of constant in void context warnings?
18:08 pmurias when using -Cyaml
18:09 audreyt yes
18:09 audreyt should be harmless
18:09 audreyt oh
18:09 audreyt hm, maybe not.
18:10 audreyt ah, slight bitrot from compilation from pil1
18:10 audreyt a sec. willfix in a bit
18:11 pmurias the garbage line is more worring
18:13 pmurias the one after the warning with strage chars
18:14 pmurias s/worring/worrying/
18:14 pmurias s/strage/strange/
18:15 Schwern joined #perl6
18:16 audreyt pmurias: write a hello_world.p6 in the m0ld dir?
18:17 audreyt and write a test that calls pugs -CM0ld hello_world.p6 into a m0ld file and then a C file?
18:18 pmurias audreyt: a failing one?
18:20 rindolf Hi all.
18:20 rindolf Hi audreyt
18:20 rindolf Hi pmurias
18:21 audreyt a failing one.
18:21 ruoso joined #perl6
18:22 pmurias my autotools skills really suck, i could easily put it in the smop t/
18:23 rindolf pmurias: why aren't you using CMake?
18:23 rindolf CMake++
18:24 ruoso pmurias, about using static ID... I wanted to experiment a different approach, since smop-identifiers.h is becoming bloated...
18:24 lambdabot ruoso: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
18:30 pmurias rindolf: dunno, ruoso chose autotools
18:30 rindolf pmurias: ah.
18:30 rindolf pmurias: for what?
18:32 ruoso rindolf, basically, autotools was the way I knew for making C building portable...
18:32 ruoso I know that there are Scons and CMake
18:32 rindolf ruoso: ah.
18:32 ruoso but as I didn't have any experience with them, and that setting up a basic autotools environment is pretty simple
18:33 ruoso I didn't have much to think about...
18:33 ruoso but I'm not against someone taking the job of setting up a different build system
18:33 ruoso ;)
18:34 rindolf ruoso: what is the project?
18:34 ruoso rindolf, smop
18:34 rindolf ruoso: URL?
18:34 rindolf ruoso: ah.
18:34 pugs_svn r21854 | pmurias++ | [m0ld] 26_m0ld_pugs.p6 - hopefull it meets audreyt++ request
18:34 pmurias audreyt: sorry it took so long, fought with autotools too long
18:34 ruoso rindolf, http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?smop
18:34 lambdabot Title: SMOP / Perl 6
18:36 ruoso pmurias, you're working on getting 'use v6' blocks ported to mold, right?
18:36 pmurias i should be...
18:38 ruoso do you think I should implement "if" in slime so I can get 'method lookup' implemented? or do you think I should be able to use if () {} else {}... in v6 blocks with mold soon...
18:40 pmurias i don't think it makes sense to touch slime now, i'll force myself to write an elf backend, or audreyt will start a pugs one soon
18:41 pmurias ruoso: a half-measure would be to enable q:m0ld blocks
18:45 rindolf ruoso: Can't locate Cursor.pm in @INC
18:46 pugs_svn r21855 | audreyt++ | * Do not insist on installing a profiling cabal-install dep chain.
18:48 rindolf ruoso: http://search.cpan.org/searc​h?mode=dist&amp;query=Cursor
18:48 lambdabot Title: The CPAN Search Site - search.cpan.org
18:48 rindolf ruoso,. pmurias : ping.
18:48 pmurias rindolf: pong
18:48 rindolf pmurias: I cannot build SMOP.
18:48 pmurias checking
18:48 rindolf pmurias: it cannot find Cursor.pm
18:49 rindolf pmurias: try "svn st"
18:49 pmurias cd sm0p;sh brew
18:49 rindolf pmurias: what?
18:49 pmurias Cursor.pm is src/perl6/Cursor.pmc
18:50 rindolf pmurias: I followed the instructions here - http://www.perlfoundation.org​/perl6/index.cgi?smop_hacking
18:50 lambdabot Title: SMOP Hacking / Perl 6
18:50 pmurias rindolf: type that in the smop directory not everything is intergrated with the Makefile
18:50 rindolf pmurias: oh. %-(
18:51 rindolf pmurias: brew: line 3: cd: ../../../src/perl6/: No such file or directory
18:51 ruoso rindolf, I think you need more elements from the pugs repository....
18:51 rindolf ruoso: yes, so it seems.
18:51 rindolf ruoso: please fix the Makefile.cvs
18:51 rindolf Or the instructions at http://www.perlfoundation.org​/perl6/index.cgi?smop_hacking
18:51 lambdabot Title: SMOP Hacking / Perl 6
18:51 ruoso rindolf, yes... the dependencies on ../../../src/perl6 are quite new...
18:52 pmurias and quite temporary hopefully ;)
18:52 rindolf ruoso: ah.
18:54 pugs_svn r21856 | pmurias++ | [smop] make makes sm0p and m0ld
18:59 ruoso pmurias, I've added "have pugs compiled in the source tree" to the "In order to compile SMOP, you should:" list...
19:00 ruoso is there a good link for a pugs compiling howto?
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19:00 pugs_svn r21857 | pmurias++ | [smop] merged brew into the (missing) Makefile
19:01 pmurias ruoso: README in the repository root?
19:01 pmurias ruoso: pugs is not needed yet
19:01 ruoso it is, actually... since a recent commit you made ;)
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19:02 pmurias compiling that test never succeds as pugs -Cm0ld dosn't work yet
19:03 ruoso hmm... maybe we should take it out of the default target then...
19:03 ruoso (at least until it works)
19:06 rindolf ruoso, pmurias : so what should I do?
19:07 ruoso rindolf, does 'make all' work?
19:07 pmurias ruoso: i'm fixing make test
19:08 rindolf ruoso: let me try.
19:08 rindolf ruoso: make all where?
19:08 ruoso v6/smop
19:09 pugs_svn r21858 | pmurias++ | [smop] make test runs (has failures)
19:12 ruoso pmurias, I still can't make test
19:12 pmurias ruoso: if you're blocked on the lexicals i can hack q:m0ld into sm0p.pl
19:13 ruoso pmurias, please :)
19:13 * ruoso anxious to have the first Perl 6 "if" in effective smop code ;)
19:14 pmurias ruoso: what's your error?
19:14 ruoso it tries to run ../../../pugs -Cm0ld 26_m0ld_pugs.p6 > 26_m0ld_pugs.m0ld
19:14 ruoso and I don't have pugs built there
19:15 pmurias it's in error ignoring mode
19:15 japhb Is there a $Larry in the house?
19:17 pmurias @seen TimToady #you mean
19:17 lambdabot TimToady is in #perl6. I last heard TimToady speak 1h 32m 37s ago.
19:17 ruoso pmurias, I have commented out the specific 26_... target and it worked
19:17 pmurias to you have a - before the pugs line
19:18 ruoso but that won't make it work... because you'll have an invalid 26_m0ld_pugs.m0ld file
19:18 pmurias an empty one
19:19 pmurias empty ones are valid now
19:19 ruoso oh... I probably have a old mold
19:19 pmurias ruoso: is a q:m0ld preferable to use m0ld;
19:20 ruoso pmurias, feel free to choose... I think both are ok...
19:22 pugs_svn r21859 | ruoso++ | [smop] make pugs m0ld compilation non-blocking on error (at least untill it works)
19:22 japhb pmurias: I asked it the way I did (as $Larry) so that if he was watching the channel as a human, he would notice, but by not using his nick, I wouldn't trigger his IRC client to ping him.  Just trying to be less of an interruption ...
19:23 * TimToady ponders whether he's here or not...
19:24 japhb Like Schroedinger's assistant, you have just collapsed that wave function.
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19:25 japhb TimToady: I tried reading the backlog, but I'm confused why "can't" is more worthy of relief than "q'foo'"?
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19:27 pugs_svn r21860 | pmurias++ | [smop] use m0ld support for sm0p.pl
19:27 japhb The concept of ident being conceptually "underscore/alpha, followed by \w+" is pretty damn ingrained in geek culture (and certainly in my brain), so this is a very odd one to me.  Mind you, oddness is not exactly something that Perl6 needs to avoid, I'm just curious why this seemed like a "no brainer", when my gut went the other way -- "this needs heavy thought"
19:28 ruoso pmurias, which file naming should I use? should I still use .sm0p?
19:29 pmurias yes
19:30 * japhb reflects on Perl6 slowly adding Forth "features"
19:30 ruoso pmurias, can I still reference values that are in the local C scope (like invocant), or should I get it from the capture in the 'use m0ld' block?
19:31 pmurias you can use something like my $reg = $cvariable;
19:31 ruoso right
19:32 pmurias got to think of a syntax for c variables
19:32 ruoso $¢variable?
19:33 pmurias how to you type the cent?
19:34 ruoso hmm.. in my keyboard... Compose, C, |
19:34 ruoso but I use an unusual configuration
19:34 * ruoso hate dead keys
19:35 pmurias maybe just ¢variable?
19:36 pmurias forcing ¢ on people dosn't feel right, otoh it C-K Ct in vim
19:38 pmurias Can't we just use can_not instead of can't?
19:38 pmurias In Perl 6
19:40 masak I was surprised at the identifier/character change too
19:40 pugs_svn r21861 | ruoso++ | [smop] renaming lexicalscope to .sm0p so we can "use m0ld"
19:41 masak does it work for variables as well? $will-this-work?
19:41 ruoso pmurias, this is really m0ld, right? so I need to keep up with all the registers and stuff...
19:41 ruoso pmurias, would you mind to port the lookup implementation in http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/inde​x.cgi?smop_lexical_scope_implementation to smop_s1p_lexicalscope.sm0p?
19:41 lambdabot Title: SMOP Lexical Scope Implementation / Perl 6, http://tinyurl.com/5ebhte
19:42 * ruoso have to leave now... will get back later....
19:56 pmurias audreyt: do you think syntax sugar like my $a = $b.$c(...) instead of my $a;$a = $b.$c(...); and $a = $b."c"(1) instead of $c="c";$d=1;$a = $b.$c($d) is desirable in m0ld?
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20:08 audreyt pmurias: that particular sugar I think is good.
20:09 audreyt basically I'd like Sugar>DeSugar mapping
20:09 audreyt to have a clear DeSugar>Sugar choice on that level
20:10 audreyt if there are two Sugar that generates the same DeSugar (not counting the DeSugar itself) then it's more questionable.
20:10 audreyt making some sense?
20:15 pmurias audreyt: yes
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20:22 pmurias btw. i read the quasi-quotes paper and the part 1 of SYB, and i think i'll be able to write the quasi-quotes once pugs switches to a ghc which supports it
20:25 audreyt pmurias: most excellent
20:25 audreyt pmurias: see regex-qq on hackage and lighttpd-conf-qq
20:25 audreyt there's also a qq for hs itself!
20:25 audreyt http://code.haskell.org/~mor​row/code/haskell/metaquote/
20:25 lambdabot Title: Index of /~morrow/code/haskell/metaquote
20:25 audreyt the use of that is you can embed arbitrary haskell snippet in your dsl
20:25 audreyt like of like "string { code } string" in p6 strings
20:26 audreyt all in all, exciting stuff.
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20:51 pugs_svn r21862 | pmurias++ | [m0ld] cleaner handling of labels
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21:13 pugs_svn r21863 | pmurias++ | [m0ld] my $target = ...call.. syntax sugar
21:13 mncharity joined #perl6
21:13 pmurias mncharity: hi
21:23 pmurias i the default haskell [Char] unicode capable, how do i read in utf8?
21:26 pmurias found what is was looking for
21:28 mncharity hi pmurias
21:28 mncharity "STD_red's AST output is broken and horrible", huh?
21:31 pugs_svn r21864 | pmurias++ | [m0ld] ¢foo is used to refer to the C variable ¢foo
21:31 * pmurias is looking at it again
21:35 pmurias mncharity: if you have token baz {<foo>};token foo {<bar>};token bar {x}; and match baz against x the resulting Match has a bar Match under the key foo
21:37 ron joined #perl6
21:38 ron perl6: sub Fiddle { return 5;} say Fiddle;
21:39 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT[5␤]
21:39 p6eval ..rakudo 29834: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "say Fiddle"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤]
21:39 p6eval ..elf 21864: OUTPUT[Parse error in: /tmp/pnCD7AwoiG␤panic at line 1 column 0 (pos 0): Can't understand next input--giving up␤WHERE: sub Fiddle { return 5;} say Fi␤WHERE:/\<-- HERE␤  STD_red/prelude.rb:99:in `panic'␤  STD_red/std.rb:76:in `scan_unitstopper'␤  STD_red/std.rb:224:in `comp_unit'␤
21:39 p6eval ..STD_r...
21:39 pmurias mncharity: it seems sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't it annoyed me horribly when i attempted to write a STD5_dump_match equivalent for STD_red
21:39 ron perl6: sub Faddle () { return 5;} say Faddle;
21:39 p6eval elf 21864: OUTPUT[Parse error in: /tmp/dWmg7xwQFO␤panic at line 1 column 0 (pos 0): Can't understand next input--giving up␤WHERE: sub Faddle () { return 5;} say␤WHERE:/\<-- HERE␤  STD_red/prelude.rb:99:in `panic'␤  STD_red/std.rb:76:in `scan_unitstopper'␤  STD_red/std.rb:224:in `comp_unit'␤
21:39 p6eval ..STD_r...
21:39 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT[5␤]
21:39 p6eval ..rakudo 29834: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "say Faddle"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤]
21:40 [particle] is it legal to call without parens?
21:40 ron shouldn't it be if fn is lower case ??
21:41 mncharity oh, you're objecting to parse tree flattening?  pointless/unneeded nodes were removed for the obvious reason - kiss.    re "annoyed me horribly", oh, sorry about that.:(  you should mention such things.  switching to a regex-engine-equivalent Match tree was always a todo task for when actually swapping in a real regex-engine-based parser.
21:41 TimToady case doesn't matter, but you need a semicolon after the }
21:41 mncharity s/for when/to be done when/
21:41 ron perl6: sub Fiddle { return 5;} ; say Fiddle;
21:41 p6eval elf 21864, pugs: OUTPUT[5␤]
21:41 p6eval ..rakudo 29834: OUTPUT[Fiddle␤]
21:41 ron perl6: sub Faddle () { return 5;}; say Faddle;
21:41 p6eval elf 21864, pugs: OUTPUT[5␤]
21:41 p6eval ..rakudo 29834: OUTPUT[Faddle␤]
21:42 TimToady ooh, rakudo is doing barewords.  ick
21:42 ron sub faddle() { return 5;} ; say faddle;
21:42 TimToady or it's assuming uppercase is a type
21:42 ron perl6: sub faddle() { return 5;} ; say faddle;
21:42 p6eval elf 21864, pugs, rakudo 29834: OUTPUT[5␤]
21:42 TimToady looks like the latter is true
21:42 TimToady still ick
21:43 ron I'll look a little further for the moment.  Have a good weekend  all ...
21:46 pmurias mncharity: re horrible and annoying things the Call and Capture AST nodes deserve an unhonorable mention
21:49 mncharity elaborate?
21:50 pmurias mncharity look at the AST output of $foo.bar(1,2,3,a=>5)
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21:51 mncharity looking...
21:54 pmurias the invocant is only defined in the wrong place,arguments receive an Apply(which should be merged with Call anyway) and the named and positionals arguments are stuffed together
21:55 pasteling "mncharity" at 65.96.169.198 pasted "./elf_g -v -e '$foo.bar(1,2,3,a=>5)'" (151 lines, 5K) at http://sial.org/pbot/31841
21:56 pmurias and the method is a string instead of an AST name
21:56 pmurias s/name/node
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21:57 pmurias got to sleep now&
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21:59 masak there's a dead link http://rakudo.org/perl6/index.cgi?download_perl_6 from http://www.pugscode.org/
22:00 mncharity Call has an invocant because $x.m($cap) $x is distinct from whatever invocant Capture $cap might have.  Apply'ing infix:, can't be merged without checking that the prelude's infix:, hasn't been overridden.  my understanding is named and positionals arguments are unavoidably stuffed together at this level.
22:01 mncharity the AST output of STD_red no doubt has a great many problems.  but my impression is those 4 aren't among them.
22:03 mncharity The name as string, yes, that's perhaps excessive kiss.
22:03 TimToady how does $a.$b() come out?
22:04 mncharity looking...
22:08 pasteling "mncharity" at 65.96.169.198 pasted "./elf_g -v -e '$a.$b()'" (75 lines, 1.9K) at http://sial.org/pbot/31842
22:09 mncharity the parse tree looks plausible (this is the old STD expect_term post stuff), but I didn't (hand write) a Match node creation for that case, so it doesn't show up in the ast.
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22:12 mncharity for anyone curious, the duplicate dotty entries result from the old STD's EXPR adding non-tree cross links to propagate around operator precedence.
22:15 mncharity The Match tree (comp_unit...) is what STD_red generates.  The IR (CompUnit(...)) is created from the Match tree by IRx1_FromAST.pm.
22:18 alester joined #perl6
22:21 mncharity elf calls the Match tree the AST, and the CompUnin(Var(...)) etc the IR.  rakudo calls the IR the AST.  pmurias's critiques were about the IR, rather than the AST, and thus not directly a STD_red issue (which only creates the Match AST).  Responding about the IR, I too called it the AST... which I herewith clarify. :)
22:23 Alias_ joined #perl6
22:29 mncharity Since I was just thinking "we really need to have more project/design discussion/deliberation, I'll sketch out what I see myself as working on.
22:33 mncharity elf's backend (ie, compiler) is written in p6, but not it's frontend (parser), and most of the p5 runtime is written in p5.  My objective is to have frontend, backend, and most of the runtime, written in p6.  And to have a second, common lisp backend, both to force the runtime cleanup, and, because it has a
22:34 mncharity very similar compiletime + dynamic-runtime story to p6, to get a *very* fast p6 implementation.  Eg, 10-100x faster than p5, rakudo, and pugs.
22:39 mncharity Near term goals are to create a STD_blue which uses STD to take code and dump a Match tree ast (as STD_red does), and then a new IRx1_FromAST2.pm which massages that ast into an IR tree.  I'm not sure whether to walk through STD.pm, attempting thorough IR coverage, or do "just enough to bootstrap, and then do a fleshing out pass later".
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23:05 mncharity (127 people in room, but so very quiet)
23:06 mncharity &
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23:19 * scrottie stiffles a sneeze
23:20 * scrottie reads with carefully attention
23:20 Limbic_Region whatcha reading?
23:21 scrottie mncharity's state of the elf.
23:21 Limbic_Region link?
23:21 scrottie I was afk while he actually said it, doing a few laps on Ridge Racer R4 to clear my mind.
23:22 moritz_ joined #perl6
23:23 scrottie http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/today
23:23 lambdabot Title: IRC log for #perl6, 2008-08-08
23:23 scrottie there it is.
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23:50 Limbic_Region thanks

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