Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-09-11

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 Tene If there's anything that's not clear in the synopses, btw, it really should be, so that's a bug.
00:04 Tene So feel free to harass the list or TimToady or whatever to fix it for you.
00:04 wknight8111 Perl 6 is a really big damn language. It's hard to appreciate just how much stuff is in it
00:04 Limbic_Region wknight8111 - not really, STD.pm isn't even 1MB with all the comments :-)
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00:51 * ruoso still having a hard time with smop plumbing
00:51 * ruoso sleep &
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04:20 s1n pmichaud: is it better to test w/ !defined or !blah.defined?
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04:57 literal hm, http://rakudo.de/
04:57 lambdabot Title: Rakudo - A Perl 6 Compiler
04:57 literal ^--- how big is the entire test suite?
04:57 literal and how much of Perl 6 does it cover?
05:05 literal ah, never mind, got an answer from #parrot @ MAGnet
05:06 * diakopter chuckles at "Applications written in any non-English languages (except complex script languages) can now be successfully virtualized and deployed via App-V." on http://blogs.technet.com/softgrid/archive/2008/09/03/microsoft-application-virtualization-4-5-rtms.aspx
05:06 lambdabot Title: The App-V Blog : Microsoft Application Virtualization 4.5 RTMs!, http://tinyurl.com/6kzjla
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05:39 diakopter ab5tract: take a look at the irc logs for this channel... they're searchable [for smop].
05:40 ab5tract nice pl
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06:41 moritz_ good morning
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07:31 pmurias diakopter: you told ab5tract to search the logs for smop, why?
07:32 ab5tract bcuz i asked about it in #parrot on irc.perl.org
07:32 pmurias ab5tract: anything you want to know? ;)
07:32 ab5tract after seeing http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-5-to-6/22-state.html
07:32 lambdabot Title: blog | Perlgeek.de Blog :: The State of the implementations
07:33 ab5tract well, i'm particularly curious about how it relates to parrot
07:33 ab5tract the intended sharing nature of them both would make it ironic if they didnt share with each other :)
07:34 moritz_ I think we have some 20k to 22k tests now
07:35 moritz_ but it's hard to obtain real numbers without an implementation that runs them all
07:35 moritz_ the coverage... even harder to say
07:36 moritz_ maybe 60% to 70% of what is currently in non-draft-synopsis
07:36 pmurias ab5tract: we don't share code at the moment
07:38 pmurias i think it will be possible to add a PCT smop backend
07:39 pmurias moritz_: you misspelled my name it's Paweł, not Pavel
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07:40 moritz_ pmurias: sorry, will fix
07:41 moritz_ (offline writing)--
07:42 pmurias v is not part of the polish alphabet by the way ;)
07:42 moritz_ that's all greek to me ;-)
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07:46 ab5tract glad to hear it
07:47 ab5tract i guess you could say my support of the project hinges on the developers' intentions re: parrot
07:48 pmurias @tell ruoso i think the leak in 21 is cause by a circural reference between the $back register and the back frame
07:48 lambdabot Consider it noted.
07:48 ab5tract if it is something in the future to take a shine to, then yes
07:48 ab5tract !
07:48 ab5tract with enthusiasm
07:48 pmurias ab5tract: support, you mean you intend to contribute?
07:49 ab5tract but if there was a consideration to not integrate with parrot even if such a thing wer possible, would be disappointing
07:49 ab5tract i am intrigued by the concept of smop
07:51 pmurias we intend to integrate with many other vm's with perl5 in particular
07:51 ab5tract what language are the test written in
07:51 pmurias mixture of C,m0ld,sm0p and Perl 6
07:52 ab5tract is there web docs for m0ld?
07:52 ab5tract took a look at smop wiki at perlfoundation.org
07:53 ab5tract and at slides...
07:53 pmurias http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?smop_mold
07:53 lambdabot Title: SMOP Mold / Perl 6
07:53 pmurias the yapceurope2008 slides?
07:54 pmurias if you have any question about m0ld/mold i'll expand the wikipage
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07:56 ab5tract i can name the registers whatever i want, right?
07:57 pmurias yes
07:57 ab5tract well, the opcodes part is readable to me as is
07:59 ab5tract though im not sure how the functionality of $r10 and $r11 are determined. unless... by argument?
07:59 pmurias functionality here means?
08:00 pmurias slime/sm0p btw is on the way out, so you don't need to bother with it
08:00 ab5tract good to know
08:00 pmurias $r10 and $r11 store a SMOP__Object* as all registers
08:01 pmurias ab5tract: did you spend time learning slime/sm0p
08:01 pmurias ?
08:02 ab5tract no just found out about SMOP tonight
08:03 ab5tract [01:28am] ab5tract: but i guess they are right. perl 6 is just a smop.
08:03 ab5tract [01:30am] ab5tract: the object responder interface... that's clean c
08:03 ab5tract [01:30am] ab5tract: "just a macro to a callback", yeah you know nothin serious
08:03 ab5tract [01:33am] ab5tract: will it connect with parrot?
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08:05 ab5tract oops
08:05 ab5tract stupid colloquy
08:06 ab5tract i think it sounds great
08:07 ab5tract 20k+ tests isn't snot in tissues
08:07 moritz_ (these tests are the Perl 6 ones, not the smop ones, just to be sure ;)
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08:08 ab5tract ruby 1.9 is a dependency, interesting
08:09 ab5tract i've been learning ruby in bleeding-edge ruby land.
08:09 ab5tract even there ruby 1.9 is not a dependency
08:09 ab5tract :)
08:10 pmurias ruby 1.9 is a problem for you?
08:10 ab5tract not at all
08:10 ab5tract i am excited
08:10 ab5tract i know ruby
08:11 ab5tract i was making a joke about how yarv is for some reason shunned by the web development in ruby community
08:12 pmurias we don't use ruby directly, it's used by STD_red the parser used for elf
08:12 ab5tract i see. ruby grammar is a powerful tool, at least in that its got me excited about programming again.
08:15 ab5tract i expect i will like the two-column variable-namespace-signifier of perl6 quite a bit though
08:18 ab5tract pmurias: nice talking to you. i will be back later to understand more.
08:20 pmurias see you
08:21 pmurias later
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09:44 pasteling "flob" at 41.225.0.137 pasted "testing" (1 line, 5B) at http://sial.org/pbot/32121
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09:44 flob some one here ?
09:49 Tene flob: yeah, what's up?
09:50 flob cool :-)
09:50 flob well i'm asking about the cgi irc bot
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10:47 flob io
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11:28 ruoso Hello!
11:28 lambdabot ruoso: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
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11:53 pmurias ruoso: hi
11:53 ruoso hi pmurias
11:55 pmurias i think will need weak references if we want to solve the leaks with refcounting
11:55 pmurias s/will/we will
11:57 ruoso pmurias, I've sort of implemented it in mold
11:57 ruoso if mold receives itself to store in a register, it already keeps it as a weak reference...
11:58 ruoso mold frame, I mean
11:59 moritz_ flob: I
11:59 moritz_ erm
11:59 pugs_svn r22204 | pmurias++ | [m0ld] changed identifier syntax in m0ld to letter or '_' + zero or more alphanumerics or '_'s
11:59 moritz_ I'm the one to ask about the logging bot
11:59 pmurias ruoso: but it works only on self-references
12:00 ruoso indeed..
12:01 ruoso do you think we have deeper circular references?
12:01 pmurias yes
12:01 rakudo_svn r30980 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Add argumentless ... stubby exception generator.
12:01 pmurias outerframe -> Code -> innerframe -> outerframe
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12:04 pmurias ruoso: is there a way to print the reference counter at any given point?
12:05 pmurias s/any given point//
12:05 ruoso yes... it is stored in the obj->data struct
12:07 ruoso pmurias, I've solved that kind of circularity in slime by having the "forget" operator
12:10 ruoso but it's not the proper way of fixing it, I know...
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12:14 flob moritz_
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12:14 flob you are the one i search i think
12:15 flob moritz_ can you help with installation ?
12:16 moritz_ flob: perhaps. But I don
12:16 moritz_ 't ahve access to the sources right now
12:16 moritz_ (and a keyboard that I'm not used to, as you might see ;)
12:17 flob grr
12:17 flob i have d/l what you have on your site one by one lol
12:17 moritz_ why?
12:17 moritz_ you can get it from SVN
12:18 flob and what is SUN ?
12:19 moritz_ subversion, a version control system
12:20 flob i want what i can upload on a cgi dir
12:22 moritz_ you need cgi/ and /lib
12:23 moritz_ and database.conf
12:23 moritz_ do you have shell access on that machine?
12:23 flob sure no!
12:23 flob so we need this ? :/
12:24 moritz_ well yes, you have to start the logging bot somehow
12:24 flob if i have shell access i'll got for an eggdrop
12:25 * moritz_ can't parse that sentence
12:25 flob no i want a bot withtout any shell access
12:26 moritz_ well, good luck
12:26 moritz_ problem is, a bot has to be always running, and you can't achieve that reliably from a CGI script
12:27 flob understand
12:28 flob ty mf for help anyway :)
12:31 pmurias ruoso: do you have a dual core machine?
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12:38 rakudo_svn r30982 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Make split method a little more liberal about the multi parameters it takes, so $*IN.slurp.split(...) will work.
13:18 rakudo_svn r30983 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] $(), @() and %() now mean the same as $($/), @($/) and %($/), as per S05.
13:23 pugs_svn r22205 | jnthn++ | [spectest] Unfudge a test that Rakudo now passes.
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14:09 pugs_svn r22206 | pmurias++ | [smop] added my $interpreter;my $scope; to .m0ld files
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14:37 rakudo_svn r30985 | moritz++ | Enable parallel testing in rakudo.
14:37 rakudo_svn r30985 | moritz++ | Patch courtesy by Michael Schwern and Ron Schmidt
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15:07 rakudo_svn r30987 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Fix !OUTER, so things like if 'foo' ~~ /o/ { say $/ } will now work. Since !OUTER no longer seems to produce exceptions after this fix, we'll try not wrapping it in an exception handler any more and see what comes of that - none of spectest_regression depends on it.
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15:16 pugs_svn r22207 | jnthn++ | [spectest] Untodo a test Rakudo now passes, but also make it not dependent on being able to auto-increment undef (since we're not actually testing that here).
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16:11 rakudo_svn r30988 | moritz++ | [rakudo] tools/autounfudge.pl: skip a few more files by default
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16:53 pmurias @tell ruoso do you think it makes sense to add MARK to the RI and add a SMOP_MARK macro?
16:53 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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17:11 pugs_svn r22208 | moritz++ | [t/spec] cleaned some tests on contextual scoping
17:22 pugs_svn r22209 | jnthn++ | [spectest] Un-skip some regex tests that Rakudo can now pass.
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17:30 rakudo_svn r30989 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Re-work implementation of ... a bit.
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17:43 pugs_svn r22210 | moritz++ | [t/spec] start to fudge quoting.t for rakudo
17:44 ab5tract download link on pugscode.org returns 404: http://rakudo.org/perl6/index.cgi?download_perl_6
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17:46 moritz_ ab5tract: would you like a commit bit to fix it?
17:47 rakudo_svn r30990 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Methods written outside of a class, grammar or role should not be allowed unless they are anonymous.
17:51 rakudo_svn r30991 | moritz++ | [rakudo] implement qq qw and q quoting forms
18:05 pugs_svn r22211 | ab5tract++ | fixed download link on homepage
18:06 moritz_ ab5tract++ # first commit
18:09 ab5tract :)
18:10 ab5tract here comes another
18:10 pugs_svn r22212 | ab5tract++ | fixed the perl6 wiki link
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18:25 rakudo_svn r30993 | moritz++ | [rakudo] refactored qq, qw, q parsing to be more efficient
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18:36 pugs_svn r22213 | moritz++ | [t/spec] more quoting test[t/spec] more quoting testss
18:40 pugs_svn r22214 | moritz++ | [t/spec] more and corrected quoting tests
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18:49 pmichaud note to smop developers:  sometime this week I'm planning to restart the "This Week in Perl 6" series, to describe what's happening with Perl 6.  Since I don't follow 'smop' too closely, I'd be very happy to include any news or reports of smop development.  I'm going to try to write reports weekly on Sunday evenings (but it may back off to biweekly).
18:50 pmichaud same for anyone else working on Perl 6 related activities
18:53 pugs_svn r22215 | moritz++ | [t/spec] many test fixes, mostly related to undef
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19:06 pugs_svn r22216 | moritz++ | [t/spec] more test corrections wrt undef
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19:11 pugs_svn r22217 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fixed return.t
19:18 pugs_svn r22218 | moritz++ | [t/spec] more test fixes wrt undef
19:26 pugs_svn r22219 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fixed a test
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19:35 rakudo_svn r30994 | moritz++ | [rakudo] allow $stuff ~~ undef
19:39 pugs_svn r22220 | moritz++ | [t/spec] s/todo/skip/ in assign.t; those tests exhibited bogus passes
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20:10 pugs_svn r22221 | moritz++ | [t/spec] partially fudge undef.t for rakudo. Pending fudge bugs.
20:16 pugs_svn r22222 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fudged return.t, all tests should pass again
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20:36 pmurias ruoso: got the @tell message?
20:37 ruoso hm... maybe not
20:37 lambdabot ruoso: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
20:37 ruoso MARK being?
20:37 literal 22222!
20:38 pmurias MARK calling MARK on all the children and marking the object as live (perhaps using a callback)
20:39 ruoso ah... as the start of a trace gc...
20:39 pmurias yes
20:40 ruoso heh...
20:40 ruoso that would belong in the smop_lowlevel.h space
20:40 ruoso because only the objects that use the default smop lowlevel will use this gc implementation
20:41 ruoso but wait...
20:41 ruoso i've added RELEASE and REFERENCE to SMOP__ResponderInterface
20:41 ruoso if MARK is a needed infra-structure to support trace gc
20:42 ruoso it should belong in SMOP__ResponderInterface as well
20:42 rakudo_svn r31002 | moritz++ | [rakudo] fixed Failure.ACCEPTS, pmichaud++
20:42 ruoso with no-ops where needed
20:44 ruoso pmurias, does it make sense?
20:45 ruoso pmichaud, about "This Week on Perl 6", I'd be glad to help pointing the news about smop... do you plan to have a wiki or something? or are you planning just to compile news received by mail?
20:45 pugs_svn r22223 | moritz++ | [t/spec] unfudged smartmatch.t a bit for rakudo, +1 new test
20:46 * ruoso home & # will backlog later, as usual
20:48 pmichaud ruoso:  compile news received by mail or other sources
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21:00 rakudo_svn r31004 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Fix assigning a proto-object.
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21:32 pugs_svn r22224 | moritz++ | [t/spec] more Q:b quoting tests
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21:35 pugs_svn r22225 | moritz++ | [t] move unicode.t to spec/
21:40 pugs_svn r22226 | moritz++ | [t] merged a few tests into spec/
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21:47 pugs_svn r22227 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fixed plan in radix.t, fudged again for rakudo
21:54 pugs_svn r22228 | moritz++ | [t] moved underscores.t to spec/, simplified
21:58 pugs_svn r22229 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fudged underscores.t for rakudo, changed is $a, $b to ok $a == $b for
21:58 pugs_svn r22229 | moritz++ | a few numeric tests (not very consistently, though)
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22:11 rakudo_svn r31005 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Fix to new in Perl6Object so we don't blow away PMC instances for PMCs we are inheriting from.
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22:37 rakudo_svn r31006 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Clear namespace after we leave one, so later rules don't get attached to earlier grammars.
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Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo