Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-10-06

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 speckbot r14586 | larry++ | Add missing series operator, mostly for readability.
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02:09 meppl good night
02:14 speckbot r14587 | larry++ | typos
02:14 literal there's lwall and larry?
02:14 TimToady it ain't fair, is it...
02:17 Auzon perlbot, karma TimToady
02:17 perlbot Karma for TimToady: 194
02:17 Auzon perlbot, karma larry
02:17 perlbot Karma for larry: 188
02:17 Auzon perlbot, karma lwall
02:17 perlbot Karma for lwall: 576
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02:32 TimToady looks like I have some catching up to do with that lwall fellow...
02:33 Auzon Yeah. It seems like he gets karma three times as often as you do :P
02:34 TimToady maybe it's just because he has a famous name
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03:59 Ontolog moritz_: you mentioned a bug a couple weeks ago that would prevent me from returning a list of Match objects (or interspersed String and Match objects) from split(), is that still valid? If so, which bug is it?
04:00 Ontolog moritz_: I've been AFK for a week but now I'm back and would like to get back to hacking some perl 6 stuff
04:37 wayland76 I also have a question.  If I have an array with 5 objects in it, and I have another variable which also points to the object, how do I find which array element contains the object that the other variable points at?
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04:48 TimToady how often do you want to do it?
04:49 TimToady if often, a reverse hash is the right way to do it
04:49 TimToady if seldom, find the first element for which { $_ === $other } is true
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05:00 TimToady (but no one implements hashes with object keys yet that I know of)
05:00 wayland76 Hmm.  Often, but with different arrays :).  I guess I use ===
05:00 wayland76 Well, I'm writing code that will target this hopefully-done-by-Christmas perl6 :)
05:01 wayland76 Do we do POD yet?
05:01 wayland76 (at least, do we ignore it while compiling?
05:02 TimToady generally, I think so
05:02 wayland76 Hmm.  Is there any doco on the POD then?  Because rakudo doesn't seem to be ignoring it
05:02 TimToady well, STD ignores it
05:02 wayland76 Ok :)
05:03 TimToady rakudo might be still expecting =cut instead of =end
05:03 wayland76 I'll put in an appropriate complaint then
05:03 wayland76 hmm.
05:03 literal documentation: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S26.html
05:03 wayland76 well, I'm using =cut :)
05:03 lambdabot Title: S26
05:03 TimToady try =begin/=end
05:03 wayland76 Oh, great :)
05:04 wayland76 Wow!  I was working off the old synopses on dev.perl.org :)
05:04 wayland76 So now I can help myself much better!
05:04 wayland76 Thanks :)
05:06 TimToady well, I gotta get up in 4.5 hours and catch a plane, so I'd better zzz off
05:07 TimToady thunk &
05:08 wayland76 Have a good sleep :)
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05:47 notbenh is there a required trait for attrs in perl6
05:49 notbenh I also cant seem to find anything like moosed trigger for attr in S12, am I missing something?
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08:57 wayland76 Does perl6 have a DBI module yet? :)
09:00 moritz_ no
09:00 moritz_ though in rakudo you can use the mysql NCI stuff
09:00 moritz_ but it's really ugly to work with it
09:16 moritz_ Tim Bunce said he'd write a DBI for Perl 6 (when it's "more done"), and get some inspiration from the odbc interfaces
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10:41 ruoso pugs: package A { our multi foo is export ( Int $a ) { say $a + 1 }}; package B { our multi foo is export ( Str $a) { say $a ~ 'a' }}; say foo(1), foo('a');
10:41 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT[*** ␤    Unexpected "("␤    expecting trait or block␤    at /tmp/ijqnriJ8eH line 1, column 37␤]
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10:42 Ripples any body knows about taint feature of perl ?
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11:07 moritz_ Ripples: for perl 5 questions you're wrong here
11:07 moritz_ Ripples: but `perldoc perlsec` or #perlhelp might help
11:07 Ripples ok
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11:50 pugs_svn r22518 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fixed syntax error in pre-post.t, caught by STD.pm++
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12:35 azawawi moritz_: ping
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12:42 azawawi @seen moritz_
12:42 lambdabot moritz_ is in #perl6. I last heard moritz_ speak 1h 34m 25s ago.
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14:28 moritz_ pong
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15:17 masak jerry++ # reply on p6u
15:18 moritz_ that would be [particle]++ ;)
15:24 masak right.
15:24 masak [particle]1++ too, just in case
15:25 [particle]1 cheers
15:25 masak moritz_: welcome back from your weekend, btw
15:25 moritz_ thanks ;)
15:25 moritz_ how's Novemeber moving?
15:27 PerlJam What?!?  They're moving November?  But I like it to be right after October and just before December.
15:28 [particle] it's a wiki. if they move it, you can move it back ;)
15:32 masak haha
15:32 masak moritz_: slowly. 100% studies is a pain for hobby development. :)
15:32 masak but the things that do happen are cool
15:32 moritz_ masak: I know that feeling ;(
15:33 masak I spent the weekend teaching zarah the Bioclipse bot new tricks
15:33 masak so almost all the free hacking time went to that
15:33 masak moritz_: ping me at #november-wiki and I'll show you the new tricks :)
15:34 moritz_ masak: so teaching buts stuff is what you call "study"?
15:34 moritz_ ;-)
15:34 masak er.
15:34 masak it was the weekend!
15:35 masak I needed some time off from my massive study schedule... :)
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15:36 moritz_ excuses ;)
15:36 masak aye.
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16:09 masak moritz_: I'd say the two things going on with November right now are MediaWiki markup and the tags system
16:09 masak by me and ihrd, respectively
16:09 moritz_ for me a "tag" is something like <body> or <code>
16:09 moritz_ I like the term "label" better
16:10 moritz_ but I guess nobody but google agrees
16:10 masak moritz_: me too. or "category"
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16:14 masak one of our branches is still blocking on #58392 :(
16:15 moritz_ the (in)famous lexicals bug
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16:16 masak I have a personal vendetta against that particular bug
16:16 * moritz_ hopes masak wins the vendetta
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16:17 masak thing is, I don't have nearly enough Parrot-fu to do anything about it myself
16:17 masak as far as I know, it's pmichaud++'s department
16:17 masak so the only thing I can do is to nag pmichaud
16:17 moritz_ as far as I know, pmichaud would be very happy to delegate the issue to somebody else ;)
16:18 masak it's not that... I don't know where to begin
16:18 masak it seems like an architectural issue
16:18 moritz_ yes, that's what I'm talking about
16:18 masak the flaw is in Parrot's lexicals handling, or pads handling, or whatever
16:19 moritz_ right
16:21 pmichaud I've been complaining about lexicals handling for a year or so :-|
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16:22 pmichaud the only reason it's my department is because nobody else seems to prioritize it to fix it
16:22 masak oh.
16:22 masak pmichaud: I'd do it, but I don't have the required skillz.
16:22 pmichaud so I've basically said "well, looks like it's up to me then".
16:23 masak pmichaud: any reading-up I can do, stuff like PDDs or source code?
16:23 pmichaud masak:  I was in the same boat -- I ended up spending a good bit of my summer studying the problem and figuring out how to solve it
16:23 masak pmichaud: this problem? or some other problem?
16:23 pmichaud lexicals.
16:23 masak seems like we need one more summer, then :)
16:24 pmichaud heh
16:24 pmichaud well, fortunately my time availability isn't that seasonal
16:24 pmichaud I think I have a solution, but I was kinda waiting for the mmd branch to merge before making too big an investment in code
16:24 pmichaud since that's happened (yesterday), I may be able to focus on it now.  the 74 spectest_regression failures bug me a bit, though.
16:25 moritz_ are they all related to complex math?
16:25 masak 74, oy
16:25 pmichaud not all, but most.
16:25 pmichaud Parrot doesn't seem to be able to handle subclasses of its built-in Complex PMC
16:25 masak pmichaud: nice to hear that a fix is not impossibly far away, in any case. as an application programmer, I kinda like recursion.
16:26 masak it's convenient.
16:26 pmichaud masak: yes, I totally understand how recursion is important (especially for parsing issues :-)
16:26 masak aye
16:26 pmichaud I did wake up this morning thinking "I feel like working on lexicals today."
16:26 masak haha
16:26 masak follow your instincts!
16:27 masak & # swimming
16:28 rakudo_svn r31701 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]: spectest-regression.csv update: 205 files, 4363 passing, 74 failing
16:28 rakudo_svn r31701 | pmichaud++ | Most failures seem to be related to the mmd branch merge, especially
16:28 rakudo_svn r31701 | pmichaud++ | with complex number handling in Parrot (RT #59630).
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16:37 azawawi hi
16:37 azawawi ping
16:37 moritz_ hi azawawi ;)
16:37 azawawi ;-)
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16:39 azawawi moritz_: i need to put some NCI shared lib code for $*PID and others; where is the ideal place to put these stuff in our perl6 src directory?
16:40 moritz_ azawawi: dunno. I've never messed with NCI so far.
16:40 moritz_ azawawi: in case of doubt, discuss with pmichaud
16:40 moritz_ that said, do you really think that's necessary?
16:40 azawawi hmmm parrot does not seem to have an op code to get the process id
16:41 pmichaud azawawi: I'd prefer to ask the question "what's the standard Parrot mechanism to get the process id" than to immediately jump to NCI code
16:41 azawawi cool
16:42 azawawi but we should have a place to put util nci code for the future
16:42 azawawi things that parrot does not implement
16:43 pmichaud I agree there.
16:43 pmichaud My guess is that pid code would go into Parrot's OS PMC
16:43 pmichaud src/pmc/os.pmc
16:43 * azawawi checking it
16:45 pugs_svn r22519 | moritz++ | [t/spec] add tests for the new "series" infix:<...> operator (mostly plagiated
16:45 pugs_svn r22519 | moritz++ | directly from the specs)
16:45 azawawi i agree; it should go there eventually
16:50 * azawawi starts working on RT #49586
17:21 [particle] moritz: i'm doing a perl 6 workshop on wednesday. you have much prior art on p5->p6. any suggestions you have on references are appreciated
17:22 moritz_ [particle]: I guess you know both of my blog and Perl6::Perl5::Differences?
17:22 moritz_ (the latter being rather up-to-date, except when it comes to POD)
17:23 [particle] yes, it's the 'up to date' part that's tricky :)
17:23 [particle] perhaps a wiki based on that could be updated by the group during the session?
17:23 moritz_ perhaps ;)
17:25 [particle] or, since it's in pugs svn... direct update in repo
17:25 [particle] i can hand out commit bits liberally
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17:25 [particle] (as long as commitbit is up and running then)
17:25 moritz_ .oO( ... )
17:26 [particle] p6::p5::d is in pugs svn, that is
17:29 moritz_ omg, commitbit requires jet another Jifty plugin
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17:37 moritz_ [particle]: commitbit is running again
17:38 moritz_ now I have to run for table tennis training
17:38 moritz_ Jifty-- # a hell to install
17:39 azawawi moritz_: interesting load avg went to 30+ on feather1 but is now dropping
17:40 [particle] moritz_++
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18:21 azawawi moritz_: ?
18:22 azawawi moritz_: ping
18:30 azawawi why do have math.pir and any-num.pir?
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18:44 azawawi ./clear
18:45 azawawi pugs: say 1.polar(0)
18:45 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT[*** No such method in class Int: "&polar"␤    at /tmp/rXAFdeRYih line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤]
18:45 azawawi rakudo: say 1.polar(0)
18:45 p6eval rakudo 31667: OUTPUT[Null PMC access in get_string()␤current instr.: 'parrot;P6metaclass;add_parent' pc 95 (runtime/parrot/library/P6object.pir:126)␤]
18:45 azawawi rakudo: say 1.unpolar(0)
18:45 p6eval rakudo 31667: OUTPUT[Null PMC access in get_string()␤current instr.: 'parrot;P6metaclass;add_parent' pc 95 (runtime/parrot/library/P6object.pir:126)␤]
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18:47 azawawi rakudo: say 4.unpolar(0);
18:47 p6eval rakudo 31667: OUTPUT[Null PMC access in get_string()␤current instr.: 'parrot;P6metaclass;add_parent' pc 95 (runtime/parrot/library/P6object.pir:126)␤]
19:01 pmichaud azawawi: (math.pir vs. any-num.pir)    math.pir was before all of the method semantics were worked out
19:01 pmichaud I suspect we haven't converted them all across.
19:02 azawawi pmichaud: i noticed
19:02 pmichaud that said,  say 1.unpolar(0)   should be working.
19:03 azawawi rakudo: say 1.unpolar(0);
19:03 pmichaud I suspect the problem is in the current parrot build, not in rakudo itself.
19:03 p6eval rakudo 31667: OUTPUT[Null PMC access in get_string()␤current instr.: 'parrot;P6metaclass;add_parent' pc 95 (runtime/parrot/library/P6object.pir:126)␤]
19:03 azawawi it is working on the latest build
19:03 pmichaud (the parrot build in p6eval, that is)
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19:10 azawawi pmichaud: so math.pir is going to be moved into any-num.pir in the end
19:11 pmichaud azawawi: probably.
19:11 [particle] p6eval: control rebuild rakudo
19:11 [particle] i forget the right commands...
19:11 [particle] p6eval: help
19:11 p6eval [particle]: Usage: <(smop|pugs|nqp|std|rakudo|elf|pixie|kp6): $perl6_program>
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19:27 alech hey, I am having some weird problems installing pugs, maybe someone can help me: http://gist.github.com/15108
19:27 lambdabot Title: gist: 15108 — GitHub
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20:02 * ruoso realizes that this is the moment when SMOP actually need things to be implemented in Perl 6... we need all the built-ins to be defined in src-s1p so it can be compiled and loaded as the prelude
20:03 ruoso pugs: Object ~~ Any
20:03 p6eval pugs: RESULT[Bool::False]
20:03 ruoso pugs: Any ~~ Object
20:03 p6eval pugs: RESULT[Bool::True]
20:04 ruoso pugs: Junction ~~ Object
20:04 p6eval pugs: RESULT[Bool::True]
20:05 azawawi rakudo: my $x = 10; $x++; say $x;
20:05 p6eval rakudo 31667: OUTPUT[Null PMC access in get_string()␤current instr.: 'parrot;P6metaclass;add_parent' pc 95 (runtime/parrot/library/P6object.pir:126)␤]
20:05 azawawi pugs: my $x = 10; $x++; say $x;
20:05 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT[11␤]
20:07 pugs_svn r22520 | ruoso++ | [smop] compile-time binding is ::=, not :=
20:10 pmichaud p6eval's copy of rakudo is broken.
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20:15 ruoso if a multi sub is defined in more than one package as "is export", do the different versions merge as different options or is that an error?
20:16 ruoso this has an important side-effect...
20:17 ruoso putting it another way...
20:17 ruoso are all the multi options stored inside an object that is then held in the variable space for that name?
20:18 ruoso or does the multi dispatch means finding for another variables in the lexical scope that might provide the proper multi option
20:19 ruoso or putting it in yet another way...
20:20 ruoso is it possible to add a lexically-scoped-variant to a multi sub?
20:28 ruoso pugs seems to implement the multi dispatch by continuing the traversing of the lexical scope if not variant is found...
20:28 PerlJam ruoso: I'd guess that a lexically scoped multi should be possible.
20:29 ruoso yeah... it seems so...
20:29 ruoso so the sub dispatch actually is something like dispatch($name, $lexpad)\
20:30 ruoso which means that finding the sub is not a normal variable lookup...
20:30 ruoso but this is not really a problem...
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22:13 * moritz_ wants to rename !=:= to =!= ;-)
22:14 literal or !:!, or !:=
22:15 moritz_ actually !:! is quite a nice idea
22:15 moritz_ the "restraint smily" operator ;)
22:15 moritz_ erm, restrained
22:15 moritz_ (english is hard)
22:16 moritz_ (Perl 6 is also hard, especially to implement)
22:28 rakudo_svn r31714 | moritz++ | [rakudo] non-positive limit returns empty list in Str.split.
22:28 rakudo_svn r31714 | moritz++ | Patch courtesy by Chris Davaz, Ontolog++. Closes RT #59642.
22:30 lucybahart joined #perl6
22:30 lucybahart hi
22:30 rakudo_svn r31715 | moritz++ | [rakudo] fixed some typos in docs and actions.pm, added small clarifiction on
22:30 rakudo_svn r31715 | moritz++ | the REPL in README.
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22:52 ab5tract wknight8111: i took the liberty of adding a link to the parrot wikibook to the parrot.org wiki
22:53 ab5tract it could stand to be better emphasized, imo. right now its just a link under 'Wiki 101'
22:54 wknight8111 thanks!
22:55 meppl joined #perl6
22:55 ab5tract i've been reading through it, its nice to have so much info about parrot in one place
22:57 ab5tract i think there is a mistake on page http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Parrot_Virtual_Machine/Parrot_Intermediate_Representation ; it seems like '$x = AddTwo(4 + 5);' should be '$x = AddTwo(4, 5);'
22:57 lambdabot http://tinyurl.com/3v8hxu
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