Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-10-22

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:33 pugs_svn r22696 | lwall++ | [Cursor] work around accidental interpolation of $. in pattern
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00:51 lizsac ii  libperl5.10                       5.10.0-15             Shared Perl library
00:51 lizsac i have libperl
00:51 lizsac i decided to scrap the whole haskel crap and pugs
00:51 lizsac i'll try out one of the other ones
00:52 lizsac PerlJam told me to do the rakudo
01:05 wayland76 rakudo is what I'm using
01:06 wayland76 However, I should warn you that, unless getting it from SVN, the next version of parrot/rakudo is expected to come out on the Parrot website sometime today or tomorrow
01:06 wayland76 (but then, I tend to download the tarball, and build it into an RPM, and go from there)
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01:08 wayland76 btw, people, I have a scalar (actually a PGE::Match) that can act as a hash, and I'm trying to do something like: for $M -> $k1, $v1
01:08 wayland76 (where $M is the scalar/hash in question)
01:08 wayland76 Should that work?
01:23 wayland76 Ok, here's another question instead; if I have an object $M, is there a way I can get $IM to refer to what $M refers to, and then reassign $M for another purpose?
01:24 wayland76 lizsac: Correction, the new version of Parrot just came out :)
01:24 wayland76 YAY!
01:24 wayland76 ==================> PARROT PARTY TIME EVERYONE <======================================
01:24 wayland76 :)
01:28 wayland76 Hmm.  I guess it hasn't come through CPAN yet :)
01:29 lizsac i just downloaded and built some parrot
01:29 lizsac i dunno if it's the latest
01:29 lizsac it compiled pretty quick
01:30 lizsac so if i just did a svn checkout of parrot i got the new one?
01:31 FireMinion the latest one, so yes
01:33 lizsac ok so i built parrot now what
01:34 FireMinion what you want to do?
01:34 lizsac create some perl6 scripts!
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02:09 wayland76 the latest parrot was 0.7.1, but is now 0.8.0.  But SVN is even more up-to-date
02:09 wayland76 But I insist on having all my software in RPM, and the RPM takes a long time to build
02:09 wayland76 so I just use the releases :)
02:10 wayland76 Anyway, hopefully in the process of building parrot, you'll also have gotten a perl6 executeable
02:10 wayland76 If not, I have to admit I don't know how you'd get one, although going to the languages/perl6 directory and building there would probably be a step in the right direction
02:11 wayland76 Then, you create a perl6 script, and run "perl6 scriptname"
02:12 wayland76 Btw, I'm near Geelong, near Melbourne in Australia
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02:12 wayland76 Where are the other awake people?
02:12 wayland76 :)
02:13 diakopter wayland76: they are here in this channel
02:15 wayland76 diakopter: I know that, but I was wondering what country/timezone they're in (if they're happy to tell me -- I don't mind if people want to keep it secret :) )
02:16 wayland76 ( diakopter: but that's exactly the sort of thing I'd say myself :) )
02:31 lizsac parrot: error while loading shared libraries: libparrot.so.0.8.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
02:31 lizsac i installed parrot in /usr/local
02:31 lizsac do i need to setup some kind of env vars to get it to see the libs?
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02:43 wayland76 hmm.  Have you run ldconfig since compiling?
02:46 lizsac nope
02:47 lizsac Parrot VM: Can't stat perl6.pbc, code 2.
02:47 lizsac main: Packfile loading failed
02:47 lizsac heh i rand ldconfig now i get that
02:47 lizsac parrot perl6.pbc hash.pl
02:47 lizsac that's the command i'm trying
02:52 lizsac aah unless i set LD_LIBRARY_PATH
02:52 wayland76 Have you tried perl6 hash.pl
02:52 wayland76 ?
02:52 lizsac no
02:52 lizsac command not found
02:52 wayland76 ok, depends on build options I guess
02:53 wayland76 anyway, I'm glad you thought of the LD_LIBRARY_PATH
02:53 lizsac i just followed what they said on the parrot getting started page
02:53 wayland76 That would've taken me a while
02:53 wayland76 ok :)
02:53 lizsac and then i read the readme and saw the LD_LIBRARY_PATH
02:54 lizsac But please note that dynamic libs will not be found for non-standard
02:54 lizsac locations unless you set LD_LIBRARY_PATH or similar.
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02:54 johnjohn101 hello
02:54 FireMinion hey
02:55 johnjohn101 where can I read about the most recent progress for perl 6?
02:55 wayland76 Depends on what level of detail you want
02:55 FireMinion they just release the latest version
02:56 FireMinion http://www.parrot.org/news/2008/Parrot-0.8.0?destination=node%2F48
02:56 lambdabot Title: Parrot 0.8.0, "Pareto principle" released! | Parrot VM, http://tinyurl.com/5soy3g
02:56 wayland76 There are three or four competing implementations of Perl6, but the one that seems to be both the most complete and progressing well is rakudo
02:57 wayland76 http://www.rakudo.org/
02:57 FireMinion for now :)
02:57 lambdabot Title: Rakudo.org:
02:57 wayland76 Its latest release is bundled with Parrot
02:57 wayland76 which FireMinion just gave you the link for :)
02:57 johnjohn101 why so many implementations?
02:57 wayland76 Because people couldn't agree :)
02:58 wayland76 But I think it'll converge down to two in the near future
02:58 wayland76 (well, within the next year)
02:58 lizsac still can't run it
02:58 lizsac hrmm
02:58 wayland76 Pugs is the first one, but it's written in Haskell, and so people have trouble with that
02:58 lizsac Parrot VM: Can't stat perl6.pbc, code 2.
02:58 lizsac what does that mean?
02:58 wayland76 lizsac: What's the error now?  If it's long, use the pastebot :)
02:59 wayland76 Oh
02:59 lizsac is it not finding perl6.pbc?
02:59 wayland76 yes
02:59 wayland76 but not sure what code 2 is :)
02:59 lizsac yeah it's not in there
02:59 lizsac wtf is perl6.pbc?
02:59 wayland76 Hmm.  Well, that needs fixing.
02:59 johnjohn101 thanks, I think i have what I was looking for
02:59 wayland76 Have you investigated doing a build in the languages/perl6 directory
03:00 lizsac doing a build?
03:00 lizsac ahh like make perl6 ?
03:00 wayland76 johnjohn101: Rakudo is the one built on Parrot, and the one that I think will eventually develop into the main perl6
03:00 lizsac that would make sense i guess :)
03:00 wayland76 lizsac: languages/perl6/README
03:01 wayland76 that has directions, I think
03:01 wayland76 oh, wait.. :)
03:01 wayland76 yeah, that README will help :)
03:01 johnjohn101 i'm probably not going to mess with it until it's released.  I am still loving perl 5.
03:01 johnjohn101 but I was curious,
03:02 wayland76 johnjohn101: The current estimate for the 1.0 release is Christmas
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03:04 lizsac is there a way i can set a prefix dir for installing perl6 ?
03:04 johnjohn101 very cool. I hope to look at it in 2009.  i'm sure it will be well received
03:04 lizsac i want to put it in /usr/local
03:04 * lizsac reads the Makefile
03:06 wayland76 johnjohn101: You may also be interested in https://svn.perl.org/parrot/trunk/languages/perl6/ROADMAP
03:06 wayland76 That's the plan for what happens next in Perl6
03:06 lizsac hrmm don't see a way to install perl6 into /usr/local
03:06 wayland76 but it was written in August, so there's been some progress
03:07 lizsac do i have to manually move it in there?
03:07 wayland76 lizsac: That doesn't sound right.  Mine doesn't have a makefile right there; let me have a look around...
03:07 johnjohn101 tx wayland76
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03:09 wayland76 lizsac: have a look at parrot.spec (which is for building RPMS), and do a search for "make"
03:10 wayland76 johnjohn101: No worries :).  I was doing the same thing a year ago :)
03:10 wayland76 lizsac: See the one that says make reallyinstall DESTDIR=$RPM_BUILD_ROOT
03:10 wayland76 that might be worth a go :)
03:10 lizsac i already did that
03:11 wayland76 but try it with DESTDIR=/tmp/testwhatever
03:11 wayland76 ok, and what happened?
03:11 lizsac ohh i mean i did a prefix in the config
03:11 lizsac hrmm
03:11 lizsac i already installed parrot in /usr/local
03:12 wayland76 ...but now it will have more files to install?
03:12 wayland76 (I'm guessing here)
03:13 wayland76 back in 10, hopefully :) &
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03:16 wayland76 back :)
03:17 FireMinion weclome back
03:19 lizsac how do i install perl6 after i've compiled it?
03:20 lizsac ohh ohh i see
03:20 lizsac like compile parrot then compile perl6 then make install parrot?
03:20 wayland76 I hope so :)
03:20 wayland76 that's the sort of thing I was assuming
03:21 lizsac hrmm
03:21 wayland76 (although rpmbuild -ta parrot.tar.gz is a little simpler, but takes longer)
03:21 lizsac i don't have rpms
03:22 wayland76 yeah, I know
03:22 wayland76 RPMs have advantages :) (and disadvantages, I guess :) )
03:23 lizsac it looks like it's in /usr/local/languages/perl6/perl6.pbc
03:24 lizsac does parrot look there by default for .pbc files?
03:25 wayland76 Hmm.  No idea
03:25 lizsac also do i need to put anything in the top line of the perl script?
03:25 lizsac you know like #!/usr/local/bin/perl
03:25 wayland76 The stuff at the top of the perl script is only necessary if you don't want to type the extra on the command line
03:26 wayland76 For example, if you have a perl5 script called test.pl
03:26 wayland76 if you run "perl test.pl", you don't need the #! line
03:26 wayland76 ...but if you want to run it as just "test.pl", then you do
03:28 wayland76 The #! line is utterly ignored by perl, and only the operating system takes any notice
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03:32 TimToady actually, no, perl looks at the #! line anyway
03:33 wayland76 Does it?
03:33 wayland76 ok, there we go
03:33 wayland76 TimToady is the expert here
03:34 literal wayland76: some options have to be set on the command line, setting them on the #! line can be too late
03:34 literal in Perl 5 anyway
03:34 wayland76 ok :)
03:34 TimToady like -T
03:34 wayland76 oh, of course :)
03:34 wayland76 I remember reading that about -T
03:35 wayland76 Anyway, to answer the original question, I'm currently using perl6 without the #! lines :)
03:37 TimToady I doubt rakudo pays attention to #!, but I don't know for sure
03:38 wayland76 great!  We can pool our ignorance then :)
03:38 FireMinion heh
03:48 wayland76 Anyway, I have things that need doing, so unfortunately I'll have to leave your conversation to scintillate without me :)
03:48 lizsac well i know where perl6.pbc is but parrot doesn't
03:48 wayland76 lizsac: Have you tried putting the path in?
03:49 wayland76 (ie. parrot  /usr/local/languages/perl6/perl6.pbc example.pl)
03:49 lizsac parrot /usr/local/languages/perl6/perl6.pbc hash.pl
03:49 lizsac Statement not terminated properly at line 7, near ". kv->$gir"
03:54 eternaleye Heh, http://www.parrotcode.org/release/devel is a lottery ticket
03:56 eternaleye I 403'd at secsup and 404'd at datapipe before hitting a good mirror
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04:08 lizsac yay i ran my first perl6 script
04:16 lizsac perl6 say.pl
04:16 lizsac Hello World
04:16 lizsac heh
04:44 eternaleye That's odd. http://zlin.dk/p/?YWY4ZjAw
04:44 lambdabot Title: K-nopaste
04:45 eternaleye While making "./perl6"
04:47 eternaleye My memory was nowhere near full, nor my ulimit - I have 2gb ram and 4gb swap, and my ulimit is set to match
04:48 eternaleye It never even swapped out
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04:58 eternaleye This error occurs in "make languages": http://zlin.dk/p/?YThiZTU1
04:58 lambdabot Title: K-nopaste
05:00 lizsac i just did a make perl6
05:00 lizsac didn't know you could make languages
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05:09 eternaleye I'm trying to make an ebuild for gentoo - the newest one in the tree is 0.6.1 :(
05:09 eternaleye It happens in "make reallyinstall" too
05:09 lizsac ahh
05:10 lizsac well i know that making an ebuild is good practice but when it comes to development environments i try to keep them seperate from the system
05:10 lizsac i usually do from source and keep them in /usr/local without root privs
05:19 eternaleye I'm just wanting to submit it on bugzilla to be put in the tree so more people on gentoo will try it :D
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05:32 lizsac yeah it's crazy when i first upgraded to 5.10 and started getting into the features i found that it's been around for years and same with perl6
05:32 lizsac but yet it's not streamlined
05:33 lizsac i keep hearing too much talk about ruby and python
05:34 lizsac i'm going to check them out but i think perl6 deserves a chance too
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06:00 ab5tract lizsac: perl6 deserves a chance but parrot makes it dance
06:01 ab5tract parrot.has %w( ruby python perl6 ) == 'perfect'
06:02 ab5tract parrot.has %w( ruby python perl6 perl5 ) == 'perfect++'
06:04 lizsac so parrot is king in this matter?
06:06 eternaleye If it isn't now, it will be then.
06:06 lizsac i was looking at some of these .pir deals
06:06 lizsac wtf is .pir
06:06 eternaleye Parrot Intermediate Representation
06:07 eternaleye Higher-level than PASM, which is higher-level than PBC (Parrot Byte Code). All are lower-level than Perl 6
06:07 eternaleye http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?pir_tutorial_and_faq
06:08 lambdabot Title: PIR Tutorial and FAQ / Parrot, http://tinyurl.com/5mhdqv
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13:22 [particle] lizsac: parrot is a virtual machine. pir is the language humans use to program at the virtual machine level. it's like assembler for the vm, but with some sugar that makes it easier on the eyes.
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14:31 IllvilJa Hello! Planet perl 6 (planet6
14:32 IllvilJa (oops... hit return too early)... Planet perl 6 (planetsix.perl.org) has a lot of entries recently that do NOT relate to Perl 6 at all.
14:33 IllvilJa Anyone here who has any "hooks" into the RSS aggregation for that site who can have a look if the proper RSS feeds are used?\
14:39 moritz_ IllvilJa: since it's a perl.org site, you should contact webmaster at perl.org.
14:39 moritz_ IllvilJa: i guess that Geoff's blog should be filtered by tag or something
14:40 IllvilJa Yes.  I'll bring it up with them.  (I was hoping some of those guys were around here, yes, I confess, I am a bit lazy at times)
14:43 moritz_ I think they tend to hang out in #p5p, if at all on IRC.
14:44 IllvilJa Ok!
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15:01 [particle] emailing webmaster@perl.org is probably the best way to get their attention
15:03 moritz_ can I extend a class lexically scoped?
15:04 moritz_ ie add a method List.foo that's only visible in the current scope?
15:04 moritz_ 'my sub foo(@List:, $other, $args) { ... }' perhaps?
15:05 [particle] s/sub/method/
15:05 [particle] not sure if lexical methods have been implemented though, i'd have to run the code
15:06 moritz_ I'm quite sure they aren't in rakudo
15:06 moritz_ not even lexical subs are
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16:37 meppl good evening
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16:54 cognominal 1 loop; # is this an infinite loop or an error?
16:55 moritz_ in Perl 6? an error
16:56 moritz_ std: 1 loop;
16:56 p6eval std 22696: OUTPUT[parse failure␤]
17:01 cognominal std:  1 while 1;
17:01 p6eval std 22696: OUTPUT[parsed␤]
17:02 cognominal i see them as synonyms
17:02 [particle] std: loop 1;
17:02 p6eval std 22696: OUTPUT[parse failure␤]
17:02 cognominal std  loop { 1 }
17:02 * [particle] hands cog a :
17:03 cognominal std:  loop { 1 }
17:03 p6eval std 22696: OUTPUT[parsed␤]
17:03 PerlJam std: loop;
17:03 p6eval std 22696: OUTPUT[Unknown routines:␤     loop called at 1 ␤parsed␤]
17:03 cognominal this is loopy...
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17:20 ruoso Hello!
17:21 moritz_ hi ruoso ;)
17:21 ruoso hi moritz_
17:34 TimToady loop is not allowed as a statement modifier
17:36 TimToady it doesn't read well in English, and it's just too easy to not see
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17:38 TimToady cognominal_: loop is just too unusual and lightweight to serve as "change what the left side means" control flow
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18:53 pugs_svn r22697 | azawawi++ | css is moved to STD_syntax_highlight.css and is not inlined when --clean-html is used
18:53 pugs_svn r22697 | azawawi++ | fixed empty arguments check
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19:13 avar http://u.nix.is/fuck-sexy-girls-near-undefined.png <- /me tries to remember what language stringifies undef to "undefined"
19:14 avar Maybe it's just the image library they're using
19:15 * masak hasn't been to undefined yet
19:15 masak seems like a nice place
19:15 Khisanth javascript!
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19:19 ruoso azawawi, how do I run STD_syntax_highlight?
19:20 pmurias ruoso: like STD5_dump_match
19:20 pmurias ruoso: hi
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19:22 ruoso hi pmurias
19:28 pmurias ruoso: the viv tree is a bit different from the Match in places what works best for me when trying to understand how to implement something is to first look at the output of STD5_dump_match and then at the viv tree (should be both included with the --debug option to mildew)
19:29 pmurias util/gen_STD_ctags.pl helps when looking at STD.pm
19:34 ruoso pmurias, I've been thinking... and there's a good reason for having the built-in types written in plain Perl 6 instead of the 'my $class = ::p6opaque.CREATE()' idiom
19:34 ruoso if we make it plain Perl 6, it can be used by other implementations..
19:35 ruoso if we make it with the specific idiom, we'll be completely smop-specific
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19:53 TimToady hmm, obvioulsy Object should stringify to U+FFFC OBJECT REPLACEMENT CHARACTER
19:53 TimToady *obviously
19:53 TimToady pity there's no JUNCTION REPLACEMENT CHARACTER...
19:54 moritz_ ;)
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19:54 * ruoso wonders how Object looks like
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19:54 TimToady dunno, my font doesn't have it...
19:54 moritz_ class Object is boring { ... };
19:55 ruoso speaking of complements to class Object...
19:55 ruoso TimToady, I think there needs to be a "class Foo meta Bar {...}"
19:55 ruoso that says that the metaclass for Foo is Bar
19:55 moritz_ in my font it's just the letter OBJ in a dashed frame
19:56 * ruoso trying to remember how gnome accepts input of arbitrary unicode characters
19:56 ruoso
19:58 moritz_ xterm uses a quite different one than gucharmap
19:59 ruoso Ctrl+Shift+U + code
19:59 ruoso Ctrl+Shift+U, code
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20:14 pmurias ruoso: other implementations will propably also use a REPR api of some sort
20:14 masak say I want to add a method to class X, but the method name is in a scalar variable $new_method. how would I do that, apart from eval'ing a string?
20:14 pmurias ruoso: and the REPR api is supposed to be standard
20:17 pmurias ruoso: other implemenation = parrot,elf,pugs? pugs is dead untill audreyt resurrects it, elf could be easily influenced to use whatever we want by implementing it and parrot will likely do the metamodel in pir/C
20:18 pmurias and it's even less likely the other implementation will have a bootstrap the metamodel mode in the compiler
20:19 pugs_svn r22698 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] resources are now in ../ when --clean-html is used
20:22 ruoso masak, the MOP api should provide the interface to do that
20:22 masak sounds good.
20:22 ruoso pmurias, the REPR api is not a standard, at least not yet... it's something smop specific...
20:24 * ruoso later & will backlog, as usual...
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20:33 pugs_svn r22699 | moritz++ | [docs] delete donate.pugscode.org, since it's hopelessly out of date.
20:34 pmurias masak: it would be something like MyClass.HOW.add_method($new_method,method {...})
20:39 masak pmurias: oh, so you can use the method keyword like that, in the middle of an expression?
20:39 moritz_ std: my $x = method { ... }
20:39 p6eval std 22699: OUTPUT[Unknown routines:␤     method called at 0 ␤parsed␤]
20:40 moritz_ obviously STD.pm doesn't like anonymous methods
20:40 pmurias masak: yes, STD currently parses it incorrectly
20:40 masak oki.
20:40 pmurias you can also use a sub
20:40 masak I see.
20:40 pmurias with the invocant being mapped to the first positional
20:40 masak but declaring methods outside of classes is still disallowed, yes?
20:40 moritz_ but will the 'self' keyword work within a sub?
20:41 moritz_ S12 has two examples of anonymous methods (at least)
20:41 moritz_ S12:286 and S12:289
20:41 masak thanks. moritz_++
20:41 moritz_ ack++
20:42 * moritz_ should make an alias specack='cd ~/pugs/docs/Perl6/Spec; ack'
20:43 masak moritz_: do it!
20:43 masak then you can answer my impertinent questions even faster :)
20:43 moritz_ we need a specack-bot!
20:44 masak aye
20:44 masak and what a success it would be :)
20:44 moritz_ hey, its line numbers could directly link to the HTML output...
20:45 * moritz_ senses the opportunity for endless tweaking, for about 3 users a day, if at all ;)
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20:46 pugs_svn r22700 | lwall++ | [STD] allow anonymous methods for moritz++ et al.
20:52 masak std: my $x = method { ... }
20:52 p6eval std 22700: OUTPUT[Unknown routines:␤     method called at 0 ␤parsed␤]
20:52 masak maybe I'm too quick on the trigger...
20:53 moritz_ masak: STD.pm isn't recompiled very often on the server... perhaps once per hour, or even less frequent
20:53 [particle]1 yes, sholud be hourly
20:53 masak makes sense.
20:53 [particle]1 so, try in 10 minutes or so
20:53 moritz_ [particle]1: do you have access on that server? ;-)
20:54 [particle]1 supposedly, but i've never attempted anything
20:54 moritz_ 0-59/18 * * * *      sh /home/evalenv/build-std.sh >> ~/std.log 2>&1
20:54 moritz_ [particle]1: that's not feather, but timtowtdi.org
20:54 [particle]1 ah
20:54 * [particle]1 <== clueless()
20:57 pbuetow joined #perl6
20:59 pugs_svn r22701 | moritz++ | [t] move instance.t to spec/, some small updates.
20:59 pugs_svn r22701 | moritz++ | Also updated deprecated-syntax.pod
21:02 pmurias TimToady: <== is parsed as a <= with the = meta operator
21:03 armagad left #perl6
21:05 pmurias it would be nice if free cpu cycles where automaticly devoted to rebuilding evalbot backends
21:07 pugs_svn r22702 | moritz++ | [t/spec] some fudging of instance.t, and small corrections
21:09 pugs_svn r22703 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] Right-aligned the syntax tree div and it is collapsed by default
21:09 pugs_svn r22703 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] Added Expand/Collapse and Help buttons along with keep results onclick functionality
21:13 pugs_svn r22704 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] Fixed css/divs to work with previous commit
21:14 [particle]1 azawawi: i'm really digging the syntax highlighter
21:15 azawawi [particle]1: thx
21:18 azawawi right now loading so many spans can cause firefox to use like 450MB when closing the tab... -> jquery cleaning mouseover events from <span> tags
21:18 azawawi chrome does not exibit the same problem
21:18 [particle]1 yikes
21:19 azawawi Perl6 is pushing jQuery and browsers to their limits ;-)
21:21 azawawi STD_syntax_highlight does take a lot of CPU time especially on t/spec/..../rx.t
21:22 moritz_ azawawi: are the syntax hilighted test files online somewhere?
21:22 azawawi http://sial.org/pbot/32762
21:22 lambdabot Title: Paste #32762 from "azawawi" at 212.38.144.4
21:22 [particle]1 azawawi: you need to blog about this
21:22 azawawi http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/html/
21:22 lambdabot Title: Index of /~azawawi/html
21:24 azawawi 5486 secs for rx.t -> rx.html
21:27 azawawi avg secs for generating an html is like 30 secs
21:27 masak ooh! azawawi++ # html files
21:27 * moritz_ tries how long it takes for STD.pm itself
21:27 azawawi avg 16 secs if we exclude rx.html generation
21:28 masak azawawi: something strange happens when hovering over comments. you're probably already aware of that.
21:29 pmurias an emty tooltip is displayed
21:29 pmurias * empty
21:29 azawawi really?
21:29 azawawi masak: which one?
21:29 masak all of them, so far
21:29 [particle]1 and the tooltip is always anchored to top, rather than top of visible screen
21:30 [particle]1 i get statementlist for pod
21:30 * [particle]1 checks comments...
21:30 * azawawi is currently generating another round of improved htmls....
21:31 masak azawawi: it would also be worthwhile not to change the size of the spans when hovering on them. right now things jump around just a little.
21:31 pmurias azawawi: would a lightweight no-tooltip mode be usefull? i have an idea how to do it?
21:31 pmurias s/?$//
21:31 masak adding an invisible border to all spans should be enough.
21:31 azawawi those are already fixed... generating ;-)
21:31 masak :)
21:31 masak azawawi++
21:32 * azawawi is waiting for sample S02 to finish
21:33 [particle]1 trouble here: http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/html/S11-modules/export.html
21:33 lambdabot Title: STD_syntax_highlight ../../t/spec/S11-modules/export.t
21:34 [particle]1 see ##  exp_no_parens
21:35 moritz_ [particle]1: you mean that the comment is parsed together with the preceeding block?
21:35 azawawi right now we're not getting pod comment nodes from STD.pm
21:35 [particle]1 yes, as opposed to the other comments
21:35 [particle]1 right, no pod parsing in STD (yet)
21:35 moritz_ [particle]1: I don't think that a <.ws> at the end of a rule means trouble
21:36 [particle]1 moritz_: i'd argue that a block should end at the first \n
21:36 wknight8111 joined #perl6
21:37 moritz_ [particle]1: I don't know enough about parsing to counter that argument ;)
21:37 masak the parsing of === in the same file looks suspicious.
21:37 moritz_ aye, it's parsed as == =
21:37 [particle]1 yes, it's somewhat odd that === and <== parse differently than =:=
21:38 [particle]1 but, there's no =: op
21:38 [particle]1 so it has no other way to parse than =:=
21:38 moritz_ infix:<==> infix_postfix_meta_op<=>
21:38 masak I don't want excuses, I want results! :P
21:38 moritz_ azawawi++ # helping to identify parse errors with his shiny tool
21:38 [particle]1 you have a pugs commit bit, masak :)
21:39 masak true.
21:39 masak I also have homework...
21:39 moritz_ I don't want excuses, I want ...
21:39 [particle]1 sheesh, i've heard that before... from moritz!
21:39 masak :)
21:40 masak in all fairness, moritz_ does produce results.
21:40 * lizsac creates a random excuse generator
21:40 [particle]1 masak: expect namespace export/import to work soon in rakudo
21:40 pugs_svn r22705 | moritz++ | [t] move oo/can.t to spec/, and cleared up misleading test descriptions
21:41 masak [particle]1: yes, I've read about the good news.
21:41 [particle]1 good
21:42 masak not sure exactly what it means, though.
21:42 masak does it mean :: will start working for classes again?
21:42 masak we got sort of attached to that feature while it worked :)
21:43 [particle]1 it means, for example, module Test { sub plan is export() {...} }; <different file> use Test; plan(...) #works
21:43 masak that's good.
21:43 azawawi i uploaded the latest S02 htmls into http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/html/S02-builtin_data_types. Can anyone test it since i have a stupid ISP caching proxy :-( ?
21:43 lambdabot Title: Index of /~azawawi/html/S02-builtin_data_types
21:43 [particle]1 which also means many pir subs can be rewritten in perl 6
21:44 masak yes, I think someone mentioned that.
21:44 moritz_ masak: are you aware of any other feature that you came attached to, and that's under-tested?
21:45 masak moritz_: well, it sucks that we don't have enough integer precision to use the bitwise operators for arbritary unsigned 24-bit integers
21:45 [particle]1 azawawi++ looks great!
21:45 moritz_ azawawi: the syntax tree doesn't show up for me (FF 2)
21:45 masak for me neither
21:46 azawawi moritz_: you have to enable it first
21:46 [particle]1 hit the button!
21:46 azawawi ;-)
21:46 masak azawawi: things still jump around due to the borders on the hovered elements.
21:46 moritz_ azawawi: I pressed the button. Nothing happend. Same for "Help"
21:46 masak button doesn't work here.
21:46 [particle]1 yes, i see subtle (1px?) movements
21:46 masak Help!
21:46 masak [particle]1: aye.
21:47 azawawi i didnt use ff2 for testing
21:47 azawawi ff3
21:47 masak they're fixable, by adding invisible borders to everything
21:49 lizsac the button froze my firefox
21:49 azawawi i think jquery cleans span mouseover events from span elements recursively on window.unload that's why F5 causing FF3 to hiccup...
21:49 lizsac when i pressed unhide
21:49 [particle]1 hee, my ff is using 1.2GB now :)
21:50 azawawi show -> bind mouseover to all nodes, hide -> unbinds...
21:50 lizsac mines taking a dive
21:50 azawawi 15 secs max
21:51 lizsac heh my laptop is a pIII
21:51 azawawi lizsac: the funny thing is that dev google chrome is really faster on *.unbind... No problems there.
21:52 lizsac at least there was a stop script dialog that saved me
21:52 azawawi lizsac: jquery cleans automatically on window.unload...
21:52 lizsac yeah still waiting for the google chrome to be released for freebsd!
21:53 [particle]1 or maybe you should be running android
21:53 lizsac i couldn't get android to work
21:54 lizsac i wanted to start making android apps but never got the emulator working
21:54 cognominal joined #perl6
21:54 lizsac though my java ide is oracle's jdeveloper
21:56 lizsac it has really nice buttons
21:58 lizsac azawawi: ever play with php?
21:58 azawawi lizsac: nop
21:58 alester joined #perl6
22:00 * lizsac force kills his firefox
22:01 azawawi i think i should be attaching mouseover events to nodes with actual text child nodes to reduce strain on browsers...
22:01 lizsac i'm sure most people wouldn't have a problem
22:02 lizsac it's just i only have 512mb of ram
22:02 lizsac and a pIII
22:02 lizsac on this laptop
22:02 moritz_ that doesn't mean that we should strain the user's browser more than necessary
22:02 azawawi lizsac: it took like 450mb to exit on my 2gb laptop [Firefox 3.0.3]
22:03 lizsac yeah it's amazing i have xorg even running with firefox in the first place
22:04 * azawawi remembers moritz_++'s earlier talk about having so many <span>s ;-)
22:05 moritz_ lizsac: not quite; three or four years ago 512mb where standard, and people used it with FF and x.org or xfree86. Nothing special about it.
22:06 lizsac 512mb was standard maybe 10 years ago
22:06 lizsac heh
22:07 moritz_ not for a poor student ;)
22:07 lizsac are poor students even considred a standard?
22:07 [particle]1 :)
22:07 moritz_ by poor students, yes.
22:08 * moritz_ seriously doubts that 10 years ago any consumer PC had 512mb RAM
22:09 lizsac i found a 19" LCD by the dumpster in the parking garage a few weeks back
22:09 lizsac had a bad svga cable
22:10 lizsac i keep finding stuff out there
22:10 lizsac i need to stop dragging crap back to my apartment
22:11 lizsac lemme see what are we talking about 98
22:12 lizsac yeah i remember everyone oogling over my p200 with 512MB ram!
22:15 lizsac i could buildworld in under 12hrs
22:17 moritz_ wow, STD_syntax_highlight took 12 minutes to hilight STD.pm
22:17 azawawi http://dev.jquery.com/ticket/2586
22:17 lambdabot Title: #2586 (Firefox3b4 hangs on page leave) - jQuery - Development
22:18 azawawi moritz_: how many nodes for STD.pm?
22:18 azawawi moritz_: it will be shown on the right when you load it the first time...
22:19 moritz_ 77k iirc
22:19 moritz_ now FF uses 1GB RAM
22:19 azawawi moritz_: 1GB when events are bound or at startup?
22:20 moritz_ now. After I clicked "show syntax tree"
22:20 moritz_ 77071 nodes
22:21 * azawawi wonders if moritz_ can share it so he can test it
22:21 moritz_ sure, just a second..
22:22 moritz_ actually the syntax tree does work. It's just awefully slow.
22:22 gbacon joined #perl6
22:23 moritz_ azawawi: http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/STD.pm.html.gz there you go
22:24 * azawawi is testing it over chrome...
22:24 moritz_ speaking of going... need to go to bed now :(
22:25 azawawi me 2 it is 1:24 AM here ;-)
22:25 moritz_ sleep well ;)
22:25 [particle]1 you should come here, it's only 3:25p
22:26 TimToady yeah, but here it's 3:25p and warm
22:27 [particle]1 :P
22:27 [particle]1 i'll be in your neighborhood on friday
22:27 TimToady thanks, I'll watch out :)
22:35 apeiron joined #perl6
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23:21 apeiron_ joined #perl6
23:51 meppl good night
23:51 alester joined #perl6

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