Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-10-28

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 ruoso er... good question... bad habits die hard
00:00 masak :)
00:01 ruoso but is it ok to just do $foo.bar = $baz; ?
00:01 ruoso or do I need to do $baz,
00:01 ruoso since it's a list
00:02 masak rakudo: my @a = (1,2,3); my $b = @a; say $b.perl
00:02 p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[[1, 2, 3]␤]
00:02 masak ruoso: should be ok.
00:02 ruoso hmm...
00:03 ruoso rakudo: class Foo { has @.bar }; my $f = Foo.new(); $f.bar = 3;
00:03 p6eval rakudo 31963: RESULT[[3]]
00:04 ruoso rakudo: class Foo { has @.bar }; my $f = Foo.new(); $f.bar = (); say $f.bar
00:04 p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[␤]
00:04 masak rakudo: class Foo { has @.bar }; my $f = Foo.new(); $f.bar = (); say $f.bar.perl
00:04 p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[[]␤]
00:05 pugs_svn r22791 | ruoso++ | [smop-s1p] removing unnecessary parenthesis, as pointed by masak++
00:06 ruoso but the semantics of that method is the thing that I'm still unsure
00:06 ruoso does 'bless' means redefining isa and how?
00:06 ruoso what happens if you re-bless an object?
00:07 masak is the Perl 5 semantics applicable here?
00:08 ruoso not really...
00:08 masak why not?
00:08 ruoso because there's the possibility of methods being defined in that specific object
00:08 masak ah, yes
00:09 masak offhand, I'd say that bless redefines isa and how, yes
00:09 masak seems saner.
00:09 ruoso and removes all the methods and attributes defined in the current object?
00:10 masak aye, I think so. don't want to leave stuff around needlessly.
00:16 pugs_svn r22792 | ruoso++ | [smop-s1p] blessing an object must initialize attributes, methods and submethods also...
00:25 meppl good nightich hab so viel gesoffen, dass ich ned so ganz fit war
00:26 masak it's nice to get a bit of non-English once in a while...
00:26 pugs_svn r22793 | ruoso++ | [smop-s1p] calls .^!instanceof in the protoobject to detect when to eval the closure and pass the parameters to BUILD
00:28 meppl ( i failed at just writing "good night" into the amsg)
00:28 spx2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Sandiego
00:28 spx2 haha
00:28 lambdabot Title: Carmen Sandiego - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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04:56 azawawi good morning
05:08 azawawi @tell moritz_ stdout/stderr is now displayed in the simple/full html files when it fails (see S02*/unicode.t)
05:08 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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11:55 pugs_svn r22794 | ruoso++ | [smop] Starting SMOP p5 library (I always forget how much I hate XS)
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12:12 pugs_svn r22795 | ruoso++ | [smop-XS] support for NATIVE int
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12:25 pugs_svn r22796 | ruoso++ | [smop-XS] when p5 releases a smop object, an interpreter loop is called...
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12:44 pugs_svn r22797 | ruoso++ | [smop-XS] support constant identifiers...
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14:04 pugs_svn r22798 | ruoso++ | [smop-XS] SMOP::S1P->Foo returns the prototype for each of the SMOP__S1P__* types...
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15:24 pugs_svn r22799 | ruoso++ | [smop-XS] one step from running mold code directly from p5
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15:31 pugs_svn r22800 | ruoso++ | [smop-XS] it now runs mold code... but the code seems to be wrong... or something like that
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15:39 pugs_svn r22801 | ruoso++ | [smop-XS] YAY! we can run Mold from p5
15:40 ruoso @tell pmurias you can now run code straight from mildew :P you just need to 'use SMOP' :P
15:40 lambdabot Consider it noted.
15:41 ruoso see v6/smop/SMOP/t/run-mold.t
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15:46 ruoso I know just need to make the memory management of p5 and SMOP to get together correctly...
15:46 ruoso anyone more experienced with XS could help, just by reviewing v6/smop/SMOP/SMOP.xs
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15:47 * ruoso later &
15:50 pugs_svn r22802 | ruoso++ | [smop-XS] er... it was not actually that hard... fixed!
15:51 pugs_svn r22803 | ruoso++ | [smop-XS] a submold can be created inlined in the list of constants...
15:54 pugs_svn r22804 | ruoso++ | [smop-XS] makes the av_len weirdness less awkward... better to return av_len + 1 instead of doing +2 in the malloc...
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16:37 azawawi @tell lambdabot nice lambdabot
16:37 lambdabot Nice try ;)
17:00 azawawi ping
17:00 azawawi ping pong
17:03 azawawi nobody online?
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17:33 moritz_ they all died unexpectedly.
17:33 lambdabot moritz_: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
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17:36 * ruoso looking forward to see mildew running mold directly :)
17:37 PerlJam next thing you know the fungi are running the show!
17:40 * moritz_ doesn't like mushrooms
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18:13 pugs_svn r22805 | lwall++ | [STD] allow subsigs either following or in place of the parameter variable
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18:14 azawawi hi moritz_
18:14 moritz_ hi azawawi
18:16 pasteling "azawawi" at 212.38.136.158 pasted "sample STD_syntax_highlight profile" (19 lines, 1.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/32920
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18:24 azawawi moritz_: any idea on how to optimize DumpMatch.traverse_match ?
18:29 * azawawi is thinking of optimizing it using Inline::C
18:30 moritz_ does it really spend more time in DumpMatch than in STD.pm?
18:30 azawawi yup
18:30 azawawi please see the link i sent earlier
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18:31 moritz_ I see it, but I don't believe it ;)
18:31 azawawi it makes sense... try teststd
18:34 TimToady is traverse_match trying to reconstruct the original order of tokens?
18:34 moritz_ I think so, yes
18:34 TimToady well, I will say it again, the right way to do this is by annotating the _ array
18:34 azawawi and it is recursive...
18:36 azawawi well, what does that mean? ;-)
18:37 TimToady it means I need to patch Cursor.pmc, I suppose...
18:39 * azawawi hears voices whispering "Write it in C" ;-)
18:39 * moritz_ know tries to parse STD.pm with itself and Devel::NYTProf
18:41 TimToady you will get very different results depending on whether the lexer cache exists already
18:42 TimToady if it doesn't exists, you'll spend a lot of time in canmatch()
18:43 moritz_ so I have to run it twice ;)
18:44 TimToady anyway, I assure you it works  :)
18:45 moritz_ what, profiling?
18:45 TimToady NYTProf
18:45 TimToady on STD
18:45 moritz_ well, I get some warnings on report generation
18:45 TimToady on STD parsing STD, specifically
18:46 TimToady you may want the option that doesn't combine anonynous things
18:46 moritz_ I suspect it's because I'm not using the first perl in $PATH
18:46 moritz_ "No file line range data for sub 'Moose::Meta::TypeConstraint::Role::meta'
18:46 moritz_ "
18:46 moritz_ stuff like that
18:46 TimToady those are all evals
18:46 TimToady so it's kinda natural there's no file...
18:46 moritz_ ok
18:47 TimToady the other problem is some degree of confusion between pm and pmc, esp when they're different languages
18:48 moritz_ did you tell tim about it?
18:48 moritz_ I guess it's something you can easily forget ;)
18:48 azawawi moritz_: can plz cpan Devel::NYTProf on feather1?
18:48 TimToady yes, but there's not really a way to fix it when p5 lies to itself about whether it's using .pmc or .pm
18:49 TimToady you can make a symlink for Cursor.pm to Cursor.pmc
18:49 TimToady but you can't do that for STD.pm to STD.pmc without clobbering STD.pm
18:49 ruoso I think that's the point where using an old hack meant to something else comes back to haunt you...
18:51 TimToady anyway, if you want to temporarily make STD.pm a symlink to STD.pmc, you can just save STD.pm off to the side, or plan to restore from svn
18:51 TimToady but I found I'm usually more interested in what Cursor.pmc is doing
18:52 moritz_ azawawi: I built the .deb package for Devel::NYTProf, but since there's another apt/dpkg job running I can't install it atm
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18:53 TimToady most of the work in STD is very distributed, so low-hanging fruit is in Cursor.pmc, or in telling gimme5 how not to call Cursor.pmc unnecessarily
18:54 moritz_ ah, it's me. Stupid me... ;)
18:54 azawawi hmmm
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18:54 moritz_ it will take a few minutes for the old upgrade to finish, then I can install it
18:55 * azawawi is thinking about Inline::Perl6 ;-)
18:55 pugs_svn r22806 | ruoso++ | [smop-XS] hmpf... small off-by-one bug...
19:15 pugs_svn r22807 | ruoso++ | [mildew] dotty->postop->postcircumfix implemented
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19:19 pugs_svn r22808 | ruoso++ | [mildew] added a test for "if", which emits empty at the moment
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19:26 * azawawi is reading Cursor.pmc
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20:18 pugs_svn r22809 | ruoso++ | [mildew] add XXX in some places that were simply dropping the declaration in the floor
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20:56 mncharity hi all.
20:56 lambdabot mncharity: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
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21:03 mncharity @tell TimToady re prefix:sym<i> workaround and anonymous packages, I'm unclear on the actual problem, but if it's simply the gensym'ed name length, why not simply use different names (counter or random-large-integer)?  Though I'm no doubt missing the point.
21:03 lambdabot Consider it noted.
21:03 mncharity anyone around to mention highlights of the last two weeks?
21:04 mncharity hey!  http://rakudo.org/ is up to Oct 22.  yay.
21:04 lambdabot Title: Rakudo.org:
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21:09 mncharity http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?smop#smop_changelog
21:09 lambdabot Title: SMOP / Perl 6
21:10 moritz_ mncharity: http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/ the first two posts might be interesting for you
21:10 * mncharity considers extending /topic to link to status pages...
21:10 lambdabot Title: blog | Perlgeek.de Blog :: Category Perl-6
21:10 mncharity hi moritz_! looking...
21:10 moritz_ not exactly the last two weeks, though
21:12 azawawi moritz_: i think the highlighter links are broken on the blog post
21:12 azawawi moritz_: i changed these recently
21:13 moritz_ "cool URLs don't change"
21:13 azawawi moritz_: this link is the only one broken: http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi​/html/S12-class/_anonymous.html
21:14 * azawawi is learning perlguts + Inline::C atm
21:14 moritz_ azawawi: so what should it link to?
21:15 azawawi s{_anonymous.html}{anonymous.t.html}
21:15 azawawi or http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi​/html/S12-class/anonymous.t.html ;-)
21:15 lambdabot Title: ../../t/spec/S12-class/anonymous.t
21:16 mncharity moritz_: nifty.  :)  add to http://planetsix.perl.org/ ?
21:16 lambdabot Title: Planet Perl Six
21:17 azawawi we have also added to the synopsis's smartlinks: http://feather.perl6.nl/syn/S02.html
21:17 lambdabot Title: S02
21:17 azawawi s/added/added it/
21:17 moritz_ ... and now it takes 20s to display the synopsis :(
21:17 azawawi moritz_: why?
21:18 moritz_ azawawi: dunno. Javascript-stuff I guess.
21:18 * azawawi is firing up firebug ;-)
21:18 mncharity firebug++
21:18 mncharity re highlighting, there's also http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/misc/elfish/showcode/
21:18 lambdabot Title: pugs - Revision 22809: /misc/elfish/showcode
21:19 mncharity in the category of one-evening (I think) hacks.
21:19 azawawi mncharity: interesting... looking at it.
21:19 moritz_ azawawi: (blog) ok, links fixed in svn, will be corrected on next updatey
21:20 azawawi moritz_: btw, no js is being executed on startup and it is only +1 js function
21:21 moritz_ azawawi: weird.
21:21 mncharity I just now clicked on http://feather.perl6.nl/syn/S02.html with minimal delay.  fyi.
21:21 lambdabot Title: S02
21:21 azawawi moritz_: but i use ff3 + chrome
21:21 moritz_ maybe it's a local f*ckup here
21:21 moritz_ (iceweasel 2.0)--
21:21 mncharity ff3 for me as well.
21:22 moritz_ it's high time for Debian Lenny, with FF 3
21:22 azawawi moritz_: that's ancient ;-)
21:22 moritz_ azawawi: yes.
21:23 moritz_ on my various homepages I regularly see IE 5.0 users. Now *that's* scary
21:23 azawawi moritz_: so far chrome's tab->process design is way too cool; they nice them to limit lockup problems... + it has a task manager to kill flash ;-)
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21:25 mncharity azawawi: re showcode, main motivation was to show elf IR analysis information.  for "ahh ha!  you thought there was to write access to that container, and thus are optimizing it away, when in fact *case you forgot* means you can't!" flavor debugging.
21:25 moritz_ azawawi: I care too much about privacy to use it right now. When it's packaged by a third party, works (natively) on linux, and free of privacy issues... I might give it a try
21:25 mncharity let me know if it doesn't run ;)
21:25 mncharity never actually got to the display IR analysis part.  only parse and IR trees.
21:25 * azawawi is imagining how DumpMatch.traverse_match will look in Inline::C ;-)
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21:28 * mncharity notes tcc (tiny cc) has finally addressed it's "we're still running on cvs, thus hurting community" issue.  So Inline::C which doesn't touch disk becomes more interesting.
21:29 mncharity http://search.cpan.org/~ham​ano/C-TCC-0.03/lib/C/TCC.pm
21:29 lambdabot Title: C::TCC - An interface to the TCC(Tiny C Compiler) - search.cpan.org
21:30 azawawi mncharity: tcc.. interesting
21:31 mncharity as long as you preload any headers, you can compile and link C without touching disk.
21:31 mncharity poorman's jit
21:31 mncharity x86 only. :/
21:32 azawawi ... which is everywhere these days
21:32 mncharity I thought there was an Inline::TCC or an Inline::C::TCC, but I'm not seeing it.  hmm.
21:33 azawawi im seeing a comment in use.perl about it: http://use.perl.org/~jdavidb/journal/21543
21:33 lambdabot Title: Journal of jdavidb (1361)
21:34 mncharity hmm, looks like arm's been added.
21:34 mncharity re comment, yes.   curious.  crossed it off my todo list with a "someone else got to it first".  :)  now... puzzled.
21:36 * azawawi is going to hibernate in 1min... Please logout ;-)
21:38 azawawi good night &
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21:54 pugs_svn r22810 | lwall++ | [reds] print out all the reductions in event order
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22:01 TimToady @tell azawawi I believe the "reds" program I just checked in prints out all the reductions you're interested in; sorting by initial/final positions gives you the span of each reduction, including all the ones that are thrown away in the final tree
22:01 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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23:30 mmorrow \bot
23:30 mmorrow @bot
23:30 lambdabot :)
23:30 mmorrow heh
23:31 mmorrow p6eval: help
23:31 p6eval mmorrow: Usage: <(smop|pugs|nqp|mildew|std|rakudo|elf|kp6): $perl6_program>
23:31 mmorrow sweet
23:31 mmorrow p6eval: pugs: 42
23:31 p6eval mmorrow: pugs: RESULT[42]
23:31 mmorrow p6eval: elf: 42
23:31 p6eval mmorrow: elf 22810: RESULT[42␤]
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23:43 TimToady perl6: 42
23:43 lambdabot TimToady: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
23:43 p6eval pugs, rakudo 31963: RESULT[42]
23:43 p6eval ..elf 22810: RESULT[42␤]
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