Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-10-31

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:19 eternaleye joined #perl6
00:24 spx2 wayland76: wow,are you fro real ?
00:45 ab5tract joined #perl6
00:58 wayland_ joined #perl6
01:23 meppl good night
01:33 Ontolog joined #perl6
01:39 wayland_ spx2: possibly.  If you could specify what you mean by "for real", I might be able to answer the question.  I'm assuming you're an American, and I'm aware that the use of "for real" in American slang may vary somewhat from what I'm used to (I live in Australia)
01:43 spx2 wayland_: I'm european actually :) ... I mean...I'm trying to be realistic and I'm looking for realistic views when I pose a question
01:43 spx2 wayland_: and I periodically pose this question here in the channel because I am interested to know when it's out,and it's no kind of journalistic interest..it's a personal interest
01:53 Ontolog is someone already working on Hash.contains?
02:01 smtms_ joined #perl6
02:02 wayland_ spx2: Well, I keep hearing reports of a Christmas deadline (for the basic language, not the libraries); assuming that's true, a number of the basic libraries should be implemented towards the end of January
02:02 wayland_ spx2: oh, and apologies for assumption :)
02:04 wayland_ I'm using https://svn.perl.org/parrot/trunk/languages/perl6/ROADMAP (last updated in August) as the basis for my optimism :)
02:05 Alias_ joined #perl6
02:29 spx2_ joined #perl6
02:30 spx2_ joined #perl6
02:48 alester_ joined #perl6
02:49 alc joined #perl6
03:42 bacek joined #perl6
03:54 Psyche^ joined #perl6
03:56 hercynium joined #perl6
04:02 xinming joined #perl6
04:29 |Jedai| joined #perl6
04:46 Jedai joined #perl6
05:05 agentzh joined #perl6
05:09 ab5tract joined #perl6
05:17 Entonian joined #perl6
05:19 ab5tract joined #perl6
06:07 wayland_ @tell moritz_ I've been playing with a CSS2 grammar
06:07 lambdabot Consider it noted.
06:20 [1]Maghnus joined #perl6
06:30 bacek joined #perl6
06:31 Bzek joined #perl6
06:34 ab5tract joined #perl6
06:34 azawawi joined #perl6
06:35 azawawi ping
06:41 crksht pong
06:46 pugs_svn r22835 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] dropped --simple DumpMatch in favor of the agile --redspans
06:46 crksht ?
06:47 azawawi hi crksht
06:47 crksht hiya
06:47 Maghnus joined #perl6
06:55 pugs_svn r22836 | lwall++ | [Cursor] {_to} is gone, {_from} now set only on bound cursors, unbound cursors
06:55 pugs_svn r22836 | lwall++ |     now only propagate {_pos} (will help optimization of simple traversals)
06:56 azawawi TimToady: ping
06:58 TimToady tennis
06:58 TimToady er, pong
06:58 azawawi ;-)
06:59 azawawi TimToady: im going to replace DumpMatch with redspans today
07:00 azawawi TimToady: im curious to know... why the name 'redspans'?
07:00 TimToady well, it was reds for "reductions", then I added span for the from/to span calculations
07:01 zamolxes joined #perl6
07:01 TimToady it was only later I realized it might be confusing with redsix...
07:01 azawawi ok
07:02 pugs_svn r22837 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] ETOOMUCHTIME --simple => --redspans
07:02 TimToady I'm not particularly attached to that name
07:03 azawawi yeah im going to change it once im finished; STD_p6_hilite --output=html|ansi|txt -mode=simple|full
07:04 TimToady I mean redspands, not E*
07:05 * azawawi is seeing breakfast looming in the distance...
07:05 * azawawi breakfast &
07:05 TimToady wow, it's already tomorrow here...
07:05 azawawi 9:05am here
07:05 azawawi and it is a holiday btw
07:06 moritz_ we have the holiday tomorrow
07:06 lambdabot moritz_: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
07:06 azawawi it is basically fri+sat here in jordan
07:06 * azawawi breakfast... later &
07:07 TimToady chow
07:07 TimToady er, ciao
07:07 literal pugs: [~] <m oo se>
07:07 p6eval pugs: RESULT["moose"]
07:08 literal pugs: [~^] <m oo se>
07:08 p6eval pugs: RESULT["q\n"]
07:09 literal is that a q and a newline or a q, backslash, n?
07:09 TimToady I would think it would end up with 2 chars
07:11 TimToady pugs: chars [~^] <m oo se>
07:11 p6eval pugs: RESULT[2]
07:21 ashizawa joined #perl6
07:46 charsbar joined #perl6
07:59 smg joined #perl6
08:01 [1]Maghnus joined #perl6
08:04 pbuetow joined #perl6
08:06 Maghnus joined #perl6
08:08 araujo joined #perl6
08:13 elmex joined #perl6
08:31 cognominal joined #perl6
08:34 jferrero joined #perl6
08:41 pmurias joined #perl6
08:46 iblechbot joined #perl6
08:48 xinming joined #perl6
08:52 masak joined #perl6
08:53 pmurias wayland_: there's a huge gap between usefull for something and fully finished
09:05 pugs_svn r22838 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] no DumpMatch; #it is been 'nice' seeing ya
09:05 pugs_svn r22838 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] no more javascript tree traversal; tree info is hidden in html
09:05 pugs_svn r22838 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] You can consider this an SP1 ;-)
09:07 azawawi moritz_: DumpMatch.pm has been retired from service, DumpMatch.pm++
09:10 masak DumpMatch.pm is dead, long live DumpMatch.pm!
09:10 azawawi ;-)
09:11 pugs_svn r22839 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] no more podchecker warnings;
09:21 cosimo joined #perl6
09:25 azawawi im seeing a constant load average of 5 on feather1 even though we have 3 users online
09:26 * azawawi wishes for feather4 to be a supercomputer ;-)
09:27 azawawi load avg cause so far is "sslh & readproctitle"
09:29 azawawi @tell juerd load avg is 4-5 on feather; sslh + readproctitle are taking a lot of the cpu. thx [9:29 GMT]
09:29 lambdabot Consider it noted.
09:37 Lorn joined #perl6
09:52 smg joined #perl6
10:11 masak @tell TimToady In Java, the .contains method in Hashtable was considered a mistake in hindsight, becuase some people thought it was synonymous with .containsKey and some with .containsValue -- the newer class HashMap therefore has no .contains method, to avoid confusion. Do you foresee similar confusion in Perl 6? Also, why do we have both .contains and :exist, when they seem to do the same thing?
10:11 lambdabot Consider it noted.
10:14 pedrob joined #perl6
10:20 tomyan joined #perl6
10:41 wayland_ @tell pmurias I presume the comment about the gap between useful and finished relates to my advice to spx2, but I'm still not sure what you're saying :)
10:41 lambdabot Consider it noted.
10:53 pmurias joined #perl6
10:58 pmurias wayland_: what i meant is that rakudo will become usefull much sooner than it support the whole of perl6
10:58 lambdabot pmurias: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
10:59 riffraff joined #perl6
11:00 ruoso joined #perl6
11:00 masak rakudo: sub alwaystrue { return 1 }; say 0 ~~ alwaystrue
11:00 p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[0␤]
11:00 masak that's wrong, isn't it?
11:02 masak the match table in S03 seems to indicate that when a Code is smartmatched against in any context other than $, then it should ignore the lhs and return its own return value
11:03 moritz_ masak: but you have to write that as ~~ &allwaystrue in rakudo
11:03 masak oh, that's right. sorry.
11:04 masak rakudo: sub alwaystrue { return 1 }; say 0 ~~ &alwaystrue
11:04 p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[1␤]
11:04 masak that's better.
11:04 masak false alarm.
11:06 masak rakudo: class A { method alwaystrue { return 1 } }; given A.new { say "irrelevant" ~~ .alwaystrue }
11:07 p6eval rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[0␤]
11:07 masak that, however, seems wrong to me
11:10 masak S03, again, says that Any ~~ .foo translates to ?.foo
11:10 masak if that were the case above, we'd get a 1 back
11:14 wayland_ pmurias: yeah, I know; it's at least somewhat useful now (November :) ), but the code that I'm attempting to write, that nearly all other code that I want to write depends on, seems to require macros and operator overloading :)
11:14 wayland_ And the one other piece of code I was working on ran into the recursion/for loop bug :)
11:15 masak ah, that one. :)
11:16 masak at least there's a light at the end of the tunnel regarding that bug, with the lex branch that pmichaud++ is working on
11:16 wayland_ Yup :)
11:17 wayland_ Basically, the bug hampered me when I was trying to turn Moritz' XML Grammar into a tree :)
11:17 wayland_ (that is, a DOM-style tree)
11:17 masak I can imagine.
11:17 masak (moritz_ has an XML grammar?)
11:17 wayland_ So the only code I have that doesn't seem to be running in to some sort of bug is the CSS parser :)
11:17 wayland_ well, kinda
11:18 masak I might be interested in that.
11:18 masak if it's for public eyes, that is.
11:18 wayland_ Well, what I've written so far isn't
11:18 moritz_ masak: it's on my blog
11:18 wayland_ But Moritz' stuff is
11:19 masak moritz_: ah, that's why I haven't seen it. I'm behind on my firehose.
11:20 Ontolog joined #perl6
11:20 moritz_ masak: it's nothing new... lessen 22 or 23 or something...
11:20 masak oki, then I may have seen it but forgotten about it.
11:21 masak my dream is to some day be able to do XSLT in Perl 6.
11:21 wayland_ All I did was attach a tree-building function to it
11:21 masak then we could ditch HTML::Template entirely! :)
11:21 wayland_ and it doesn't work because of the bug :)
11:22 wayland_ When you say XSLT, do you mean actual XSLT, or just perform similar functions to XSLT?
11:22 masak the real thing.
11:23 wayland_ The thing that I need operators and macros for is a Tree thing that will hopefully allow you to do tree transforms, and then spit out the tree as XML, or LDAP, or whatever you want to put in
11:23 wayland_ masak: ok.  I hated XSLT, but I love XPath :)
11:23 masak I like both.
11:23 masak the only thing I slightly dislike about XSLT is that it's a bit verbose.
11:23 wayland_ yeah, that's what I hated :)
11:24 masak but the better I got at XPath, the smaller that problem seemed to become.
11:24 wayland_ and I also (don't laugh) thought that the syntax was naturally less readable than it could've been :)
11:25 masak the syntax of XSLT or of XPath?
11:26 masak to this day, I still sometimes write '/' instead of 'div' when trying to divide numbers in XPath
11:26 wayland_ XSLT; XPath is wonderful just the way it is, except I would like it if you could make it select an attribute by default rather than nodeName() :)
11:26 wayland_ http://search.cpan.org/dist/XML-XPathScript/lib/XML/XPathScript.pm
11:26 wayland_ Hae you seen XPathScript?
11:27 wayland_ Yeah, the multiple / meaning is a pain
11:27 wayland_ I wasted some time once designing the perfect keyboard.  Unfortunately it had over 180 keys, but you could to the division symbol on it
11:28 masak moritz_: ah. found it: http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-5-to-6/20-a-grammar-for-xml.writeback
11:28 lambdabot Title: blog | Perlgeek.de Blog :: A grammar for (pseudo) XML, http://tinyurl.com/6kczpc
11:28 wayland_ the -:- sort of one
11:28 masak wayland_: XPathScript: hadn't seen.
11:29 wayland_ You can do some pretty cool things with it :)
11:29 masak wayland_: anyway, I think XSLT is a perfect fit for HTML templates.
11:29 masak the challenge will be making it fast enough to be usable.
11:29 wayland_ :)
11:30 masak preferably without resorting to C bindings, although that's certainly an alternative if All Else Fails.
11:30 masak or will be, I don't know about the state of FFI in Parrot.
11:31 wayland_ Well, I put in an ugly piece of code to integrate it with Mason, and then I could write a template for each XML tag, and it all happened :)
11:31 wayland_ FFI?
11:32 wayland_ if you mean Native Call Interface, I tried to use their converter to turn .h files into the appropriate PIR, and it didn't work
11:32 masak Foreign Function Interfact -- at least that's what I think it's called
11:32 wayland_ (tried to link the Enlightenment Widget Library to parrot :) )
11:32 masak yeah, might be NCI I mean :)
11:33 wayland_ well, I only know because I played with it the day before yesterday for the first time
11:33 wayland_ :)
11:39 masak maybe we should settle for calling xsltproc as an external process... I actually don't know how the cost of calling an external process compares against the cost of insisting on doing the whole recursive matching in Perl 6 ;)
11:40 masak ...also, some people may rightly complain that xsltproc isn't written in Perl 6, and that November is meant to showcase Perl 6 features.
11:45 ejs joined #perl6
11:57 wayland_ Well, as the song says "You can't please everyone, so ya ... gotta please yourself".
11:57 wayland_ :)
11:58 wayland_ Goodnight all (I learned my lesson well) :)
11:58 wayland_ betime &
11:59 masak 'night
12:16 sri_kraih joined #perl6
12:23 zch051383471952 joined #perl6
12:33 kane_ joined #perl6
12:34 sri_kraih joined #perl6
13:01 pmurias ruoso: re "in optimizers i trust" how are they supposed to remove the overhead with the proposed smop/p5 integration?
13:01 smtms joined #perl6
13:03 PerlJam pmurias: I tend to view anything integrating with perl 5 guts as "hard" :-)  But other than that, it just seems like a lot of work in that there are several steps and you have to be careful to get them just right or you get lots of breakage.
13:09 Lorn joined #perl6
13:11 [particle] that's why you talk to p5p and make them do the hard work :)
13:38 ruoso pmurias, optimization is not an area that I know... but there are dark magics that I've heard of about detecting repeated patterns and avoiding repetitive tests...
13:40 pmurias ROADMAP wise, it's not a thing we should be doing right now?
13:41 PerlJam get it working first, then get it working fast :)
13:41 ruoso "all evil is premature optimization squared"
13:42 pmurias what i meant more is the perl5 integration as a whole
13:42 ruoso that's what I'm already experimenting...
13:42 ruoso I've git clonned p5 just yesterday
13:42 PerlJam pmurias: oh!  Why do you think not?
13:43 pmurias PerlJam: is was thinking that we should bootstrap the metamodel first
13:43 pmurias s/is/i/
13:43 PerlJam Hmm
13:43 PerlJam seems like that could happen in parallel
13:43 ruoso I'm still tempted to 'use SMOP' to do that first
13:44 PerlJam though, I guess, if you've got limited resources, you might want to optimize utilization of those resources ...
13:44 PerlJam (that's the one case where premature optimization is NOT evil)
13:44 pmurias perl5 integration would allow us to cheat during the bootstrap
13:46 pmurias PerlJam: we have very limited resources but doing things in parrarel is more -Ofun ;)
13:49 ruoso pmurias, I'm not sure yet if we need to cheat
13:52 ruoso pmurias, I do think we can bootstrap the metamodel with the things we have
13:53 ruoso I think the thing to do now is to work on mildew to have it making the correct declarations
13:54 ruoso I have a feeling that if we implement all built-in types in Perl 6
13:54 ruoso mildew will have how to bootstrap the type system
13:56 PerlJam ruoso: where's the p5 git repo?  (where did you clone from?)
13:57 ruoso git clone git://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git
13:57 PerlJam hmm.  that's what I just used but it's saying connection refused.
13:58 pmurias ruoso: are there any other uses of the C stack than having a inner runloop?
13:58 ruoso pmurias, in p5?
13:58 pmurias yes
13:58 ruoso unfortunally, yes
13:59 ruoso the evaluation of BEGIN recurses in the C stack
13:59 ruoso while the code is still parsing
14:00 ruoso as well as require
14:01 ruoso er... the 'require' keyword, I mean...
14:03 ruoso but I'm trying to keep hope that this can be fixed
14:21 spx2_ does perl6 have better non-adhoc/non-improvisational organized object-oriented features ?
14:21 spx2_ or will it have when it's out ?
14:21 PerlJam spx2_: um ... yes?
14:21 [particle] S11?
14:21 [particle] er, S12
14:21 spx2_ PerlJam: can I please see a bit of code samples maybe ?
14:22 [particle] http://perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html
14:22 lambdabot Title: S12
14:22 spx2_ is Moose somehow part of Perl6 ?
14:22 pmurias spx2_: class Foo { has $.bar; method foo {say "foo"} }
14:22 spx2_ will there be Moose in Perl6 or will it be part of the core ?
14:22 PerlJam spx2_: no.
14:22 spx2_ oh that's nice
14:23 PerlJam spx2_: Moose is built from ideas stolen from Perl 6.
14:23 [particle] also see files in directories starting with S12- in http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/t/spec/
14:23 lambdabot Title: pugs - Revision 22839: /t/spec
14:24 ruoso spx2_, http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/html_smop/src-s1p/Object.pm.html <-- this is already parseable by STD
14:24 lambdabot Title: ../../v6/smop/src-s1p/Object.pm
14:28 spx2_
14:28 spx2_ ×
14:28 [particle] stevan has said many times moose is a bridge to perl 6 oo, and will go away
14:28 spx2_ what are those symbols ? fail/ok tests ?
14:28 spx2_ wow,I've never been present at none of the times stevan said that
14:29 spx2_ but anyway
14:30 PerlJam spx2_: go to #moose and prod stevan into saying it again :)
14:30 spx2_ :)
14:30 PerlJam [particle]: I think Moose will go away just as soon as there's a Perl 6ish replacement.  Otherwise, it's sticking around for a whle.
14:30 PerlJam s/whle/while/
14:35 spx2_ is this perl6 syntax @object».meth(@args)  ?
14:35 spx2_ that character » ... that's not on my kb
14:36 ruoso » means "do it in all elements of @object"
14:39 [particle] for the unicode-impaired, you can use >>
14:39 [particle] @object>>.meth()
14:39 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
14:39 * [particle] @kicks lambabot
14:39 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
14:43 pmurias PerlJam: what are the features that Moose provides that Perl 6 doesn't have built in?
14:44 PerlJam none that I know fo.
14:44 PerlJam s/fo/of/
14:49 [particle] perl 5 integration? ;)
14:50 PerlJam [particle]++
14:51 * araujo wonders what Moose is
14:53 spx2 joined #perl6
14:53 PerlJam araujo: perl 6 object model in perl 5.
14:54 araujo aah, thanks PerlJam
14:58 [particle] perl 6-like object mode
14:58 [particle] *model
14:59 PerlJam perl 6 object model minus the things I don't really understand or see a need for  :)
15:02 PerlJam mst actually asked me the other day what perl 6 had that moose needed and after reviewing S12, I couldn't find anything that fit the bill.
15:02 PerlJam (other than actual language support for types, type signatures, etc. :)
15:03 Tene Juerd isn't around, and I'm getting segfaults on feather3
15:03 rdice joined #perl6
15:05 diakopter Tene: /msg Juerd..
15:05 Tene Oh, huh.  Thanks.
15:06 diakopter he said he was cutting back on channels.  irc rehab, I guess.
15:21 meppl joined #perl6
15:21 meppl gugu
15:28 Exodist joined #perl6
15:33 adc_Penner joined #perl6
15:48 tak` joined #perl6
15:53 tak11 is there an estimated date on perl 6? =x
15:59 justatheory joined #perl6
16:33 pedrob joined #perl6
16:40 zamolxes joined #perl6
17:02 mj41 joined #perl6
17:16 azawawi joined #perl6
17:29 azawawi ping -b
17:34 [particle] sorry, i can't find -b in the dns.
17:34 [particle] :P
17:34 azawawi ;-)
17:37 azawawi check this out: http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/html/S05-mass/rx.t.simple.html
17:37 lambdabot Title: Error
17:37 azawawi ulimit++
17:38 [particle] :)
17:39 ab5tract joined #perl6
17:46 TimToady we could probably cut down memory usage by not storing the tree if it's just going to be thrown away anyway.
17:46 lambdabot TimToady: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
17:49 Southen joined #perl6
17:50 pugs_svn r22840 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] changed the redspans* to simple*
17:52 azawawi i cant benchmark correctly on feather1 since load avg seems to be between 3-5 all the time.
17:53 azawawi TimToady: im actually embedding the tree in the full javascript html... 2 spans for each colored span
17:53 azawawi http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/html/S05-substitution/subst.t.html
17:53 lambdabot Title: ../../t/spec/S05-substitution/subst.t, http://tinyurl.com/6qpvne
17:54 bcornett joined #perl6
17:55 azawawi since we call
17:56 pbuetow joined #perl6
17:56 azawawi TimToady: since STD.pm calls AUTOLOAD to fill the @loc array, i think we can print it out on each call (to reduce memory usage)...
18:00 TimToady I'm thinking of detecting a call to parsefile in void context, and throwing away all repeating elements, on the assumption that anything that checks a repeating element for its value is only interested in the final one.
18:00 TimToady so it would throw away each statement when it has parsed another, for instance
18:00 TimToady you'd still get all the action calls though
18:01 * azawawi is working --ansi-color mode ;-)
18:01 TimToady it'd be enough for redspans, or for checking that a file compiles correctly
18:03 TimToady maybe just hardwire it to throw away old statements in void context
18:03 TimToady might cut memory usage way down for files like rx.t
18:23 ab5tract what is a redspan?
18:25 [particle] http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/src/perl6/redspans
18:25 ab5tract thanks [particle]
18:42 pugs_svn r22841 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] implemented --ansi-text to print out ANSI color escape sequences
18:44 ZuLuuuuuu joined #perl6
19:01 pmurias joined #perl6
19:02 pmurias ruoso: the SMOP perl5 bindings are powerfull enough for what mildew needs now?
19:02 ruoso pmurias, I think so... I don't think we need to callback p5 to have the type system bootstrapped
19:06 ZuLuuuuuu left #perl6
19:07 pugs_svn r22842 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] --simple-html=- is enabled by default if no other option is found
19:08 pmurias ruoso: how should control flow be represented in the tree form of mold as seperate nodes for if,while...?
19:09 ruoso pmurias, what do you mean?
19:14 pmurias what should mildew turn while or an if into, mold has an unconditional and conditional jumps but it's inconvenient to have those in a tree
19:14 pmurias tree being the mildew AST
19:15 lisppaste3 joined #perl6
19:16 ruoso pmurias, oh... right... I think you can use the conditional branch, but still have the block as a new code object
19:16 ruoso the alternative would be to have them as s1p types
19:17 ruoso (I'm not sure if you can avoid a type with while...)
19:17 * pmurias is confused
19:17 ruoso the m0ld for an Perl 6 if would look like:
19:17 ruoso if $cond { goto then; } else { goto else; };
19:17 ruoso then:
19:18 ruoso my $thencode = ¢SMOP__S1P__Code."new"();
19:18 ruoso $thencode."postcircumfix:()"
19:18 ruoso goto end:
19:18 ruoso else:
19:18 ruoso my $elsecode = ¢SMOP__S1P__Code."new"(...)
19:18 ruoso $elsecode.()
19:18 ruoso end:
19:19 ruoso pmurias, do you see what I mean?
19:19 pmurias yes
19:19 ruoso but I'm not sure you can do that for while
19:19 ruoso because I think while also return each value of the loop iirc
19:20 pmurias what i'm unsure about how should should the if be represented in the treeified form of m0ld
19:21 ruoso OP::If(then => mold { }, else => mold { })?
19:21 ruoso actually
19:21 ruoso OP::If(cond => { },then => mold { }, else => mold { })?
19:21 ruoso or something like that
19:22 pmurias it
19:23 pmurias 's the AST package now
19:24 ruoso pmurias, right... but I think the idea would still be the same, right?
19:28 LimbicRegion joined #perl6
19:29 azawawi @seen TimToady
19:29 lambdabot TimToady is in #perl6. I last heard TimToady speak 1h 25m 37s ago.
19:30 pugs_svn r22843 | pmurias++ | [smop] bytecode length is calculated when creating a new Mold, smop_mold is also included
19:31 pmurias ruoso: yes exactly the same, was unsure if labels wouldn't be saner but propably not
19:31 ruoso pmurias, the problem with that is that each block is a new lexical scope
19:32 ruoso so better use S1P__Code
19:48 * ruoso later &
20:10 azawawi @tell TimToady i got it: Reduce @loc to contain string->tree instead of char->tree (i.e move code in redspans MAIN to AUTOLOAD...)
20:10 lambdabot Consider it noted.
20:12 azawawi @tell lambdabot try {my $to_be_nice;}
20:12 lambdabot Nice try ;)
20:25 pugs_svn r22844 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] fixed a typo [redspans->simple]
20:31 azawawi good night &
20:38 bacek joined #perl6
20:46 Lorn joined #perl6
21:09 renormalist joined #perl6
21:18 dolmen joined #perl6
22:00 pedrob joined #perl6
22:59 masak joined #perl6
23:07 Maghnus joined #perl6
23:28 masak happy November, everyone!
23:33 wayland_ Happy November to you too :)
23:33 masak :-)
23:34 masak 十一月快乐!
23:34 masak I hope I got that right.
23:35 masak perl6: say "十一月快乐".chars
23:36 p6eval elf 22844, pugs, rakudo 31963: OUTPUT[5␤]
23:36 masak eh, not bad.
23:37 smg joined #perl6
23:39 wayland_ :)
23:39 wayland_ About all I can tell is it's asian :)
23:39 wayland_ Anyone know if there's a Data::Dumper equivalent for rakudo?
23:40 masak wayland_: yes, I guess it's too short to rule out Japanese.
23:40 masak wayland_: but you should recognize that it's not Hangul. :)
23:40 wayland_ I've never spent enough time looking at the asian languages to be able to tell the difference
23:41 wayland_ although I could probably pick the sanskrit-descended ones from the ones further east
23:41 masak takes a few minutes to learn to tell them apart.
23:41 wayland_ and the other alphabetic ones; I think there's some in south-east asia
23:41 wayland_ masak: sounds easy.  Any tips where on the web I learn this?
23:41 masak though learning to distinguish Simplified Chinese from Traditional is not always easy.
23:42 masak wayland_: just hit the various articles on Wikipedia, they're usually good for stuff like this.
23:42 wayland_ Probably not that much harder than distinguishing bokmaal from nynorsk (which I doubt I can do either) :)
23:42 masak me neither. :)
23:45 wayland_ ok, will try to remember to hit those wp articles
23:45 wayland_ Japanese, Chinese, Korean; any other major ones?
23:46 masak I would call those the major ones. But my bias is in that area since I'm studying Chinese. :)
23:47 wayland_ Of course.  But there probably can't bee to many ideographic (???) languages around these days
23:47 masak you will especially find the Korean characters refreshing; they were introduced by an enlightened king in the 15th century. very logical.
23:48 masak wayland_: don't underestimate ideographic writing systems. :) they are way cool.
23:48 masak I hear they are used by a couple of hundred million people in Asia.
23:49 wayland_ well, yes.  I know they have their advantages, I just don't know what they are :)
23:49 spx2 joined #perl6
23:49 wayland_ But the reason I said "these days" is because I know there were more in the ancient past
23:50 wayland_ but I'm at least somewhat aware of writing systems (having dabbled a little in linguistics), and figured I'd probably know if there were a big stack today :)
23:51 masak wayland_: ideographic writing systems are more "natural" in the sense that it takes quite a big step to discover the alphabet-based way of doing things.
23:51 masak that doesn't mean that they are either better or worse, of course.
23:53 lizsac joined #perl6
23:53 wayland_ From what I've been told, in the west, the Egyptians had an ideographic system, and either the Phoenecians or the Hebrews (depending on who you ask) made the transition to alphabetic
23:54 alester joined #perl6
23:54 wayland_ I suspect, though, that alphabet-based systems lend themselves better to mechanisation, and make it simpler to learn new words
23:55 wayland_ Unfortunately, my browser doesn't seem to like the Korean :(
23:55 masak oh, you're missing out.
23:55 masak install a font or something.
23:56 meppl good night
23:56 wayland_ I'm investigating; I have a couple of fonts that might do it, but I've never fiddled with changing the font of a web page before :)
23:56 wayland_ 'night, meppl
23:57 meppl ;)
23:58 masak sleep tight,  meppl
23:58 meppl ;)
23:59 masak wayland_: the browsers I typically use allow you to change default fonts in the Options pane.

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo