Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-11-16

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:58 ruoso @tell pmurias I think I know how to solve the issue, we could make p6opaque intercept the FETCH calls based on some attribute that could be set in some special cases, like a specific role or something...
00:58 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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02:16 pmichaud slavik: <blah>?  means that any captured value goes into an array, yes.
02:26 slavik pmichaud: right, but if I do <blah> then $/<blah> will hold it, not $/<blah>[0] like it is with <blah>?
02:26 slavik IMO, since <blah> is said to be optional with '?' why should it go into an array?
02:27 pmichaud that's what the spec says
02:27 slavik also, I am having trouble with assertions ...
02:27 slavik I see
02:27 pmichaud but it's really that  <blah>?   is the same as    <blah> ** 0..1
02:27 pmichaud i.e., it's a quantifier, and all quantified captures become an array
02:27 slavik ahh, I see, makes sense now
02:28 slavik token port { (\d ** 1..5) <?{1 <= $0 < 2**16}> }
02:28 slavik does that make sense?
02:30 slavik rakudo tells me that the line is not terminated properly
02:30 slavik rakudo: token port { (\d ** 1..5) <?{1 <= $0 < 2**16}> }
02:30 p6eval rakudo 32683: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "?{1 <= $0 "␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤]
02:31 slavik also, I forget how to put a character into a token that should not be captured ...
02:31 slavik <.':'> ???
02:35 slavik so then * and + become ** 0..inf and ** 1..inf respectively?
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04:10 meppl good night
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04:33 slavik rakudo: version
04:33 p6eval rakudo 32684: OUTPUT[Could not find non-existent sub version␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 23 (EVAL_12:14)␤]
04:33 slavik rakudo: version
04:33 p6eval rakudo 32684: OUTPUT[Could not find non-existent sub version␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 23 (EVAL_12:14)␤]
04:33 slavik rakudo: say "hello" if <?{ 1 == 1}>;
04:33 p6eval rakudo 32684: OUTPUT[hello␤]
04:34 slavik rakudo: say "hello" if <?{ 1 == 2}>;
04:34 p6eval rakudo 32684: OUTPUT[hello␤]
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05:35 slavik @tell pmichaud I think assertions are broken :(
05:35 lambdabot Consider it noted.
05:45 pmichaud @tell slavik  code assertions aren't implemented in rakudo yet.
05:45 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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12:20 pmurias slavik: where is <?{ ... }> specced?
12:20 lambdabot pmurias: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
12:22 pmurias ruoso: why do we need to call a FETCH on the yet unbuild protoobject?
12:28 * masak is terribly fond of the `for @array.kv -> $index, $elem { ... }` idiom
12:28 lambdabot masak: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
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12:29 masak azawawi: great, thanks!
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13:25 pernod Hi
13:25 pernod Has anyone got time for a question regarding building pugs from the public svn repository?
13:26 slavik I used the cabal system
13:26 lambdabot slavik: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
13:26 slavik @messages
13:26 lambdabot pmichaud said 7h 40m 34s ago: code assertions aren't implemented in rakudo yet.
13:26 pernod ok
13:26 masak pernod: I also used Cabal. you tried that?
13:26 pernod So the plain svn $repository;perl Makefile.pl;make is not the way to go?
13:26 pernod Nope.
13:26 pernod I'l have a look at cabal then.
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13:27 pernod It's just that I get an error from svn when I attempt to fetch the repository
13:27 pernod A    pugs/v6/smop/m0ld/m0ld.cabal
13:27 pernod A    pugs/v6/smop/m0ld/m0ld_boilerplate_back
13:27 pernod svn: In directory 'pugs/v6/smop/m0ld'
13:27 pernod svn: Can't copy 'pugs/v6/smop/m0ld/.svn/tmp/text-base/m0ld.hs.svn-base' to 'pugs/v6/smop/m0ld/.svn/tmp/m0ld.hs.tmp.tmp': No such file or directory
13:27 masak pernod: I don't know if making from svn works again. it used to not work, at least.
13:27 pernod I saw something on the pugsblog that it should be working, but it was two months ago ...
13:27 masak pernod: is that on a fresh checkout?
13:28 pernod Yup
13:28 masak or are you updating?
13:28 masak strange...
13:28 pernod Indeed!
13:28 pernod Things didn't work, so I thought I'd try a fresh checkout.
13:28 pernod Unknown-00-1f-5b-d9-84-7d:dev pernod$ rm -rf pugs/
13:28 pernod Unknown-00-1f-5b-d9-84-7d:dev pernod$ svn co http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/ pugs
13:28 lambdabot Title: pugs - Revision 23028: /
13:28 masak I'm stumped. maybe the smop devs pmurias and ruoso know what's going on.
13:29 pernod ok
13:31 pmurias pernod: that's definitely a svn bug
13:31 pernod Ok.
13:31 pernod I just used the default command line svn in Mac OS X.
13:31 pernod I'll see if updating svn helps.
13:31 pernod Thanks!
13:34 pmurias pernod: usually svn screws up the .svn dir and prints stupid error messages, but a problem with a fresh checkout is strange
13:34 masak and concerning.
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14:07 pernod Hm.
14:07 pernod I tried cabal
14:07 pernod Building Pugs-6.2.13.12...
14:07 pernod gcc-4.0: -E, -S, -save-temps and -M options are not allowed with multiple -arch flags
14:07 pernod cabal: Error: some packages failed to install:
14:07 pernod Pugs-6.2.13.12 failed during the building phase. The exception was:
14:07 pernod exit: ExitFailure 1
14:07 pernod I have a bad aura, apparently.
14:07 slavik you said it, not us
14:09 pernod :)
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14:15 pmurias pernod: try rm -fr ~/pugs/v6/
14:16 pernod I'm still struggling with updating the command line svn client on my Mac.
14:17 pernod Let me get back to you pmurias, and thank you for your suggestion.
14:19 pmurias pernod: you shouldn't thank me just yet my suggestions are most likely bogus
14:19 pmurias ;)
14:20 pernod pmurias: shotgun debugging for the win!
14:21 slavik my suggestion is to dump OSX and use a real OS :P
14:24 masak oh come on -- OS bashing is so 2002. we bash each other's web browsers nowadays.
14:25 masak or virtual machines.
14:27 pernod I like my shiny toy :D
14:27 pernod (May I emphasise the word "toy" here?)
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14:27 masak yes, we like that word here on #perl6 :)
14:28 pernod Good stuff.
14:28 * pernod is waiting for svn-1.5.4 to build from source
14:30 * lizsac is waiting for service pack 2 to install
14:31 pmurias pernod: re "shotgun debugging" - did it work?
14:32 pernod pmurias: I'm still waiting for my subversion client to be up to date.
14:32 ruoso pmurias, Perl 6 code uses FETCH all over the way... including while building the object...
14:32 pmurias ruoso: hi
14:32 ruoso pmurias, hi
14:33 pernod The default svn on os x is 1.4.4, so I thought I'd get the latest subversion before anything else.
14:33 pmurias ruoso: if we make sure the object is always in a container it should work
14:34 ruoso pmurias, it ends up being by itself at some point...
14:34 ruoso I think intercepting FETCH calls in p6opaque might be sane
14:35 ruoso we just need to find a way to discover when to intercept and when not to intercept
14:35 pmurias which is where the insanity creeps in
14:36 ruoso maybe we simply have a switch
14:36 ruoso and it by defaults intercepts the FETCH
14:36 pmurias ruoso: have you seen my latest change having is rw instead of is copy as the default?
14:36 ruoso it doesn't solve the problem
14:37 ruoso because it ends up being by itself at some other point
14:37 pmurias not nessesarly
14:37 ruoso well, I tried that path, and it always got there at some point
14:37 pmurias if we put it in a scalar using VAR($foo).STORE(...)
14:38 ruoso pmurias, I have to leave now (lunch), and might not get back today, so feel free to try that
14:39 ruoso but I should warn that I don't see a very near exit...
14:39 * ruoso later &
14:42 pernod pmurias: Tried to delete /v6 and then do a svn up.
14:42 pernod Still fails
14:43 pernod svn: In directory 'v6/smop/m0ld'
14:43 pernod svn: Can't open file 'v6/smop/m0ld/.svn/tmp/text-base/m0ld.hs.svn-base': No such file or directory
14:45 masak pernod: which URL are you checking out from, by the way?
14:45 pernod masak: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs
14:45 lambdabot Title: pugs - Revision 23028: /
14:46 masak ok. that's where I get my stuff, too.
14:46 masak I updated today, and it worked.
14:46 pernod It's my aura then :)
14:46 masak I'll try to do a checkout, too, and see if I can reproduce.
14:47 pernod Unknown-00-1f-5b-d9-84-7d:pugs pernod$ svn up
14:47 pernod svn: Working copy 'v6/smop/m0ld' locked
14:47 pernod svn: run 'svn cleanup' to remove locks (type 'svn help cleanup' for details)
14:47 pernod Unknown-00-1f-5b-d9-84-7d:pugs pernod$ svn cleanup
14:47 pernod svn: In directory 'v6/smop/m0ld'
14:47 pernod svn: Error processing command 'modify-wcprop' in 'v6/smop/m0ld'
14:47 pernod svn: 'v6/smop/m0ld/M0ld.hs' is not under version control
14:47 masak pernod: out of curiosity, what do you intend to do with Pugs?
14:47 masak pernod: (are you sure you don't want Rakudo instead/too?)
14:48 pernod masak: I'll quote Sir Hillary. Because it is there.
14:48 masak pernod: so is Rakudo.
14:48 masak in some cases, even more so.
14:48 masak well worth a look.
14:48 [particle] that's always nice to see :)
14:48 pernod I used to follow the development in 2005/2006, but got busy with other work. I thought I'd have a look again now.
14:48 masak pernod: nope. my svn checkout worked. I'm running svn 1.4.4
14:49 masak pernod: then you should definitely check out Rakudo.
14:49 masak trust me, I write working software on top of it every day.
14:49 pernod Ok.
14:49 * masak mumbles "for some definition of 'working'..."
14:53 masak perl6: { $^greeting.say }.("OH HAI")
14:53 p6eval pugs: No output (you need to produce output to STDOUT)
14:53 p6eval ..elf 23014: OUTPUT[Parse error in: /tmp/5cVzeXxF8z␤panic at line 1 column 18 (pos 18): Statement not terminated properly␤WHERE: { $^greeting.say }.("OH HAI")␤WHERE:                  /\<-- HERE␤  STD_red/prelude.rb:99:in `panic'␤  STD_red/std.rb:355:in `eat_terminator'␤  STD_red/std.rb:269:in
14:53 p6eval ..`block...
14:53 p6eval ..rakudo 32707: OUTPUT[OH HAI␤]
14:55 masak the elf output is not exactly geared towards being shown by p6eval.
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17:40 rakudo_svn r32717 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] First cut of prefix:| for flattening arrays; doesn't work with hashes yet, but should be enough for what mod_parrot needs.
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20:32 stas hi all. I try to execute code from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6, exactly example use of class to encapsulate a Cartesian point. When I execute this script I get the error: Attempt to inherit from non-existent parent class
20:32 lambdabot Title: Perl 6 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
20:33 slavik the class Point stuff?
20:33 slavik pastebin your code and errors
20:33 masak std: my $a; $a .= "A"
20:33 stas right
20:33 p6eval std 23014: OUTPUT[Use of uninitialized value $file in open at Cursor.pm line 151.␤Use of uninitialized value $file in concatenation (.) or string at Cursor.pm line 151.␤parse failure␤]
20:33 masak :(
20:33 slavik std?
20:33 masak can someone with 5.10 on their box confirm that for me?
20:33 slavik 5.10?
20:34 masak slavik: STD is the only authority on Perl 6 syntax except for TimToady :)
20:34 slavik I see
20:34 slavik and Larry Wall?
20:34 slavik see rule #1 :)
20:34 masak never heard of him.
20:34 slavik wtfbbqkthxbye
20:35 masak slavik: (I'm joking. TimToady eqv lwall)
20:35 masak (or maybe it's =:=)
20:35 slavik hmm
20:36 slavik hmm
20:36 rindolf masak: confirm what?
20:36 stas code: $ cat t.pl
20:36 stas #!/home/stas/perl/parrot/languages/perl6/perl6
20:36 stas class Point is rw {
20:36 stas has $.x;
20:36 stas has $.y;
20:36 stas }
20:36 rindolf masak: I have 5.10
20:36 stas 22.35 stas@stas-laptop ~/temp/perl6
20:36 stas $ ./t.pl
20:36 stas Attempt to inherit from non-existent parent class
20:36 stas current instr.: 'die' pc 12171 (src/gen_builtins.pir:7453)
20:36 stas called from Sub 'trait_auxiliary:is' pc 15784 (src/gen_builtins.pir:9891)
20:36 stas called from Sub '_block13' pc 122 (EVAL_12:47)
20:36 stas called from Sub 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;evalpmc' pc 804 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:468)
20:36 masak rindolf: confirm that the syntax I wrote to STD above is a parsefail. thx.
20:36 stas called from Sub 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;compile' pc 434 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:303)
20:36 slavik stas: what are you using? maybe that speci is not there yet ...
20:36 stas called from Sub 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;eval' pc 836 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:493)
20:36 stas called from Sub 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;evalfiles' pc 1201 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:667)
20:36 stas called from Sub 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;command_line' pc 1380 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:756)
20:36 stas called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6;Compiler;main' pc 16062 (perl6.pir:168)
20:36 stas 22.36 stas@stas-laptop ~/temp/perl6
20:36 slavik pastebin != paste ...
20:37 slavik read the topic
20:37 rindolf masak: ah. How do I install STD?
20:37 masak stas: it's easier of you nopaste that.
20:37 masak rindolf: it comes with Pugs.
20:37 rindolf masak: ah.
20:37 masak somewhere under src/perl6
20:38 slavik why not just implement the Perl6 grammar with assertions and stuff and you're done :D
20:38 masak rindolf: the README in that directory should get you started
20:38 masak slavik: that's what STD does.
20:38 slavik oh, ok
20:39 masak welcome to the future :)
20:39 slavik :)
20:42 rindolf https://svn.pugscode.org is donw
20:42 lambdabot Title: pugs - Revision 23028: /
20:42 masak rindolf: apparently not :)
20:43 masak rindolf: (try it without the s in https)
20:44 rindolf masak: ah.
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21:06 masak rakudo: if "foo" ~~ /foo/ -> $/ { say $/ }
21:06 p6eval rakudo 32732: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "-> $/ { sa"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤]
21:06 masak that should work, right?
21:07 slavik masak: why the pointy block?
21:07 masak slavik: good question.
21:07 masak it's not really needed.
21:07 slavik rakudo: say $/ if "foo" ~~ /foo/;
21:07 p6eval rakudo 32732: OUTPUT[foo␤]
21:07 slavik :)
21:07 masak aye :)
21:07 masak simpler.
21:08 slavik and I don't think pointy blocks work for if ... do they?
21:08 masak slavik: they do.
21:08 masak so my question still remains. that should work, right?
21:08 slavik hmm
21:08 slavik no idea
21:08 masak anyone with an idea?
21:09 masak can closure parameters be called $/ ?
21:09 slavik rakudo: if "foo" ~~ /foo/ -> $a { say $a; }
21:09 p6eval rakudo 32732: OUTPUT[foo␤]
21:09 slavik hmm
21:10 slavik semicolon?
21:10 slavik rakudo: if "foo" ~~ /foo/ -> $a { say $a }
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21:10 p6eval rakudo 32732: OUTPUT[foo␤]
21:10 rakudo_svn r32733 | jonathan++ | [rakudo] Fix initialization of attributes of array and hash types (@ and % sigils). Resolves RT#60572.
21:10 masak why discriminate $/ ?
21:10 slavik rakudo: if "foo" ~~ /foo/ -> $/ { say $/ }
21:10 p6eval rakudo 32732: OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "-> $/ { sa"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤]
21:10 slavik hmm, it's a special var?
21:11 masak yes, you could say that.
21:12 bacek pugs: my @a=(1,2); my @b=(1,2); say @a === @b;
21:12 p6eval pugs: No output (you need to produce output to STDOUT)
21:13 bacek pugs: my @a=(1,2); my @b=(1,2); say (@a === @b);
21:13 p6eval pugs: No output (you need to produce output to STDOUT)
21:13 bacek pugs: my @a=(1,2); my @b=(1,2); say (@a === @b); say "bye"
21:13 p6eval pugs: No output (you need to produce output to STDOUT)
21:13 bacek hmmm
21:13 bacek perl6: my @a=(1,2); my @b=(1,2); say (@a === @b); say "bye"
21:13 p6eval pugs: No output (you need to produce output to STDOUT)
21:13 p6eval ..rakudo 32732: OUTPUT[0␤bye␤]
21:13 p6eval ..elf 23014: OUTPUT[Can't call method "Str" on an undefined value at ./elf_f line 649.␤ at ./elf_f line 3861␤]
21:16 pasteling "stas" at 92.113.128.216 pasted "code & error" (20 lines, 973B) at http://sial.org/pbot/33230
21:17 masak might I suggest that we add a warning for when a non-sideeffect method in the Prelude is used in void context? like .subst, for example. might catch a few embarrassing errors, like the one I just did.
21:17 masak s/did/made/
21:19 slavik stas: no idea ... try removing rw
21:20 slavik and read the spec
21:21 masak guess he went to read the spec.
21:21 slavik is rw is kind of ambiguous ...
21:21 masak slavik: how so?
21:22 slavik well, "is rw" is that inheritance or attributes?
21:22 slavik or do classes HAVE to start with a capital letter?
21:22 masak neither.
21:22 masak it's a trait
21:22 masak slavik: no, why would they?
21:22 * slavik meant trait by the work attributes
21:23 slavik so, how do you distinguish between the two
21:23 masak slavik: the member variables are called attributes in Perl 6.
21:23 slavik err?
21:23 masak slavik: class inheritance is only done when declaring the class.
21:23 masak there's no ambiguity.
21:23 slavik right
21:24 slavik look at the code
21:24 * masak looks
21:24 slavik it says "class Point is rw { .............. }"
21:24 masak ah.
21:24 slavik and rakudo thinks that rw is a class, not an attribute type thing
21:24 masak well, as long as there's a class called 'rw', then it's no problem :)
21:25 slavik so that is indeed not the intended syntax
21:25 slavik the traits have to be rw, correct?
21:25 masak depends on what was intended.
21:25 masak slavik: what do you mean, have to?
21:26 slavik ie: class Point { has $.x is rw; }
21:26 masak you can have a trait which is not called 'rw'.
21:26 masak slavik: that's legal, but omitting the 'rw' trait is legal, too.
21:27 slavik masak: but the point class there, the idea behind the code is to declare it as a C struct (complete read write on everything)
21:27 masak slavik: (note: 'is rw' is called a trait, '$.x' is called an attribute in Perl 6)
21:27 slavik right
21:27 masak slavik: if that's what was intended, that is indeed not the intended syntax.
21:27 slavik masak: exactly
21:28 masak rakudo: my $a = " foo "; $a .= subst( / ^ \s+ /, '' )
21:28 p6eval rakudo 32733: RESULT["foo "]
21:28 slavik ok, I am off
21:28 masak slavik: see you.
21:29 slavik .= ???
21:29 slavik oh, nvm
21:29 masak slavik: read the spec. :)
21:29 slavik ha! neat!
21:29 masak the above code throws a 'no applicable methods' on my box
21:29 masak maybe I need to do a clean checkout.
21:30 slavik rakudo: say "25" + 5
21:30 p6eval rakudo 32733: OUTPUT[30␤]
21:30 slavik rakudo: say "helloworld25" + 5
21:30 p6eval rakudo 32733: OUTPUT[5␤]
21:30 masak still the same old Perl.
21:31 slavik yeah
21:31 slavik rakudo: say "helloworld25" ~ 5
21:31 p6eval rakudo 32733: OUTPUT[helloworld255␤]
21:31 masak rakudo: my $file = 'picture238.jpg'; $file++; say $file
21:31 p6eval rakudo 32733: OUTPUT[picture239.jpg␤]
21:31 masak :)
21:32 masak oh, and that last one by slavik++ is a bug too, right? :)
21:32 masak oh, nvm
21:32 * masak needs to squint to see the difference between ~ and - at this font size
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21:40 masak dang! I still get 'no applicable methods', even after doing a clean checkout.
21:41 masak could someone else test this locally on r32733?
21:46 masak ok, nvm. false alarm :/
21:46 * masak exhales
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