IRC log for #perl6, 2008-11-20

Time	Nick	Message
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00:18	TimToady	Refinement to LTM tiebreaking rules so that foo matches before \w\w\w and fo\w matches before f\w\w.
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00:45	meppl	good night
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00:50	rakudo_svn	r32911 \| allison++ \| [cage] Fix coding standards failures aside from SQLite copyright.
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02:41	bacek_	perl6: say 1i ~~ Num
02:41	p6eval	pugs: No output (you need to produce output to STDOUT)
02:41	p6eval	..elf 23046: OUTPUT[Can't call method "Str" on an undefined value at ./elf_f line 649.␤ at ./elf_f line 3861␤]
02:41	p6eval	..rakudo 32919: OUTPUT[0␤]
02:42	bacek_	something wrong with 'pugs' in p6eval...
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08:21	moritz_	rakudo: say %*VM<config>.keys.perl
08:21	p6eval	rakudo 32926: OUTPUT[["i_vfork", "i_syssocket", "ar", "as", "has_gdbm", "-Wnot-a-real-warning", "i_locale", "-Wformat-extra-args", "mandir", "-Wmissing-braces", "i_dld", "-Wall", "i_float", "pmc", "i_sysioctl", "share_ext", "osname", "perldoc", "lex", "i_stdarg", "HAS_SNPRINTF", "make_and",
08:21	p6eval	.."-Wstrict...
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08:24	jimmy_	rakudo: say %?VM<config><osname>
08:24	p6eval	rakudo 32926: OUTPUT[Lexical '%?VM' not found␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 23 (EVAL_12:17)␤]
08:24	jimmy_	rakudo: say %*VM<config><osname>
08:24	p6eval	rakudo 32926: OUTPUT[linux␤]
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08:39	azawawi	ping
08:39	lambdabot	azawawi: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
08:39	azawawi	@messages
08:39	lambdabot	wayland76 said 20h 47m 52s ago: For clues about moritz_'s thesis, see http://moritz.faui2k3.org/en/uni (but I don't know what his thesis is either :) )
08:40	moritz_	good morning
08:40	moritz_	(my thesis is about spin transport phaenomena in mesoscopic systems. Weird stuff.)
08:40	azawawi	works with p6? ;-)
08:41	moritz_	no
08:41	azawawi	so parrot will be production quality by 2010
08:42	azawawi	moritz_: where can i find the rakudo spec passed/failed graph?
08:42	moritz_	http://rakudo.de/
08:42	lambdabot	Title: Rakudo - A Perl 6 Compiler
08:43	azawawi	thx
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15:36	pugs_svn	r23047 \| jnthn++ \| [spectest] Fix line ending issues and set svn:eol-style native on S12-class/basic.t.
15:43	moritz_	rakudo: say 010 + 010
15:43	p6eval	rakudo 32938: OUTPUT[Leading 0 does not indicate octal in Perl 6␤Leading 0 does not indicate octal in Perl 6␤20␤]
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15:44	masak	Rakudo++
15:47	moritz_	rakudo++ indeed
15:49	masak	moritz_: if I see a file in t/spec with underscores, should I change its name to something with dashes? or are there good reasons not to?
15:50	moritz_	masak: if you do it, please do it for all at once, and adapt spectest.dat
15:51	masak	moritz_: that's a nice idea.
15:51	masak	I might do it later today, no promises. :)
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16:16	TimToady	std: 010+
16:16	p6eval	std 23047: OUTPUT[############# PARSE FAILED #############␤(Possible runaway string from line 1 to line 1)␤Can't understand next input--giving up at /tmp/SGdr8R22kO line 0:␤------> [32m[31m[0m␤ expecting prefix or noun␤Other potential difficulties:␤ Leading 0 does not indicate octal in
16:16	p6eval	..Perl...
16:16	TimToady	currently STD only reports the leading 0 if there was some other difficulty, but maybe it should do it all the time
16:17	rindolf	Someone I know from fc-solve-discuss created an Assembler where a leading 0 indicates Hexadecimal.
16:17	moritz_	rindolf: even more fun ;)
16:17	TimToady	I blame the hindu-arabics :)
16:19	masak	meanwhile, in the rest of the world, a leading 0 indicates nothing in particular.
16:21	rindolf	What will a leading 0 signify in p6?
16:21	TimToady	nothing in particular
16:21	moritz_	rindolf: a warning
16:21	rindolf	And octal will be 0o?
16:21	TimToady	or :8<...>
16:21	moritz_	or .oO ;)
16:21	rindolf	I see.
16:22	TimToady	.oO(mental arithmatic goes here)
16:22	TimToady	*arithmetic even
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16:23	masak	o_O
16:23	PerlJam	Is being arithmatic like being arthritic in any way?
16:24	moritz_	arithmatic = arithmetic with arthritic brain?
16:24	TimToady	no, it's automatic arithmetic
16:25	TimToady	you're thinking of arithitis
16:26	masak	I think we have an arithmatic down in the lunch room.
16:26	moritz_	TimToady: yes. English can be so confusing from time to time ;)
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16:26	TimToady	and Chinese isn't even one language
16:27	TimToady	all(@Chinese) == False
16:28	TimToady	well, I wonder if I should do anything today...
16:29	rindolf	TimToady: contribute to en.wiktionary.org
16:29	TimToady	I meant, should I be doing something I should already be doing? :)
16:30	TimToady	I don't need new things in that category...
16:30	rakudo_svn	r32941 \| coke++ \| Resolve RT#60592 ; rename :lexid to :subid
16:30	rakudo_svn	r32941 \| coke++ \|
16:30	rakudo_svn	r32941 \| coke++ \| change docs, PIR syntax, and internal C structure that housed the data.
16:32	PerlJam	TimToady: release a perl 6 compiler that's "official" ;-)
16:32	masak	PerlJam: what do you think we've been doing all this time?
16:32	PerlJam	masak: yeah, but he should do it today :)
16:33	perl6	please, release me!
16:33	masak	...just to up the stakes a bit, eh?
16:34	masak	someone should make a webcomic about poor little perl6 being held prisoner underground by the Perl community, for fear of what it might do if let out.
16:34	moritz_	masak: nice idea ;)
16:34	[particle]	sounds a bit like serenity
16:34	PerlJam	I like how "git diff master..lex4" shows me trailing whitespace in red.
16:35	masak	[particle]: I haven't got to that series yet. I hear it's good though.
16:35	[particle]	pj: my .vimrc shows me trailing ws in red
16:35	[particle]	masak: hulu.com has them all
16:35	masak	moritz_: the phrase 'please, release me' would figure in every installment.
16:35	masak	[particle]: noted.
16:36	PerlJam	[particle]: for all files or just certain ones?
16:37	masak	[particle]: "We're sorry, currently our video library can only be streamed within the United States."
16:37	[particle]	pj: all files. i hate all trailing ws equally, but it could be configured per-filetype i suppose
16:37	PerlJam	This is the first time I've noticed trailing whitespace of any kind (since usually it's invisible :)
16:37	[particle]	masak :(
16:37	masak	indeed.
16:37	[particle]	PerlJam: pugs repo is full of it, unfortunately
16:38	PerlJam	does it really bother you that much?
16:38	PerlJam	I'm still in the position of wonder why anyone even cares.
16:38	PerlJam	s/wonder/wondering/
16:41	TimToady	.oO(if purl were here, I'm sure she'd have some opinions about the merits/demerits of cage cleaning)
16:42	* masak	is glad purl isn't here
16:45	[particle]	perljam: it messes with my ability to edit files quickly. if i go to the end of the line, my cursor isn't over the semicolon, it's to the right of it by some number of invisible characters
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16:46	[particle]	so, i have a ',ts' vim macro that removes all trailing space in a file
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18:58	pugs_svn	r23048 \| lwall++ \| [gimme5] switch back to YAML::Syck till YAML::XS is fixed
18:58	pugs_svn	r23048 \| lwall++ \| [viv] allow input from stdin
18:58	pugs_svn	r23048 \| lwall++ \| [STD] always report worries for now
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22:01	masak	I know what's going on in the following piece of code, but I would like for someone to tell me whether this shloud work:
22:01	masak	rakudo: my $cl = { "$^name upcased becomes {$^name.uc}" }; say $cl("larry")
22:01	p6eval	rakudo 32961: OUTPUT[too few arguments passed (0) - 1 params expected␤current instr.: '_block26' pc 191 (EVAL_12:69)␤]
22:02	masak	s/shloud/should/
22:03	moritz_	why shouldn't it work?
22:03	masak	moritz_: because the thing inside the string is also a closure.
22:03	moritz_	rakudo: my $cl = { $^a ~ $^a }; say $cl("b")
22:03	p6eval	rakudo 32961: OUTPUT[bb␤]
22:03	moritz_	rakudo: my $cl = { $^a ~ { $^a }.() }; say $cl("b")
22:03	p6eval	rakudo 32961: OUTPUT[too few arguments passed (0) - 1 params expected␤current instr.: '_block23' pc 167 (EVAL_14:65)␤]
22:03	masak	moritz_: then you agree that it's a bit odd that it doesn't work?
22:04	moritz_	ah, I see what you mean.
22:04	masak	should it or shouldn't it work?
22:04	moritz_	but since you can't pass arguments to closures in strings, it makes most sense to use the outer closure's self-declared parameters
22:04	masak	I mean, there's no way to send arguments to a closure in a string anyway...
22:04	masak	right.
22:04	* masak	files rakudobug
22:05	moritz_	I don't know if it's specced, from a dwim'miness POV it should work.
22:05	masak	aye
22:05	jnthn	masak: I think that's for the language list rather than rakudobug, IMO.
22:05	masak	jnthn: gotcha.
22:05	masak	(I already made the wrong call once today with sign())
22:06	jnthn	I could also argue that keeping closure parameter semantics consistent is desirable, and saying that if you want a closrue that takes paratmers you can always do a pointy instead.
22:06	jnthn	erm
22:06	jnthn	Not closure paratmers, placeholder parameters.
22:06	jnthn	But yes, I see the other argument too.
22:07	masak	each time you say something worthwhile, I have to redo my text selection in the IRC buffer :P
22:08	* moritz_	experienced the same thing a few times today already
22:08	jnthn	masak: That's OK, many of the times you say something worthwhile I have another Rakudo ticket to work on. ;-)
22:08	masak	so $^they are called 'placeholder parameters'?
22:08	moritz_	;-)
22:08	jnthn	I believe so.
22:09	masak	jnthn: good thing I don't say something worthwhile that often, then :P
22:09	masak	either I've been losing speed lately, or rakudo's been getting more robust, or both.
22:10	jnthn	The proportion of the Perl 6 RT tickets you're the creator of suggests otherwise... ;-)
22:10	jnthn	I'd like to hope Rakudo is getting more robust.
22:10	jnthn	There can only be so many bugs, surely? :-)
22:11	* moritz_	notices that real world hacking tends to catch very different bugs than the test suite
22:12	jnthn	Yeah. I do try these days to put something close to what the bug was into the test suite, or un-fudge a test that fixing that made pass.
22:12	jnthn	The second does happen a bit too.
22:17	masak	mail sent.
22:20	masak	now for the other bug I found...
22:20	* masak	grins evilly
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23:10	masak	http://gist.github.com/27262
23:10	lambdabot	Title: gist: 27262 — GitHub
23:11	masak	I didn't work too hard trying to shrink the example further.
23:11	pmichaud	yet another lexicals bug.
23:11	lambdabot	pmichaud: You have 5 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
23:11	masak	pmichaud: aye, I knew you were going to say that :)
23:11	pmichaud	well, that's what it _is_ :-)
23:11	masak	well, sure.
23:12	masak	pmichaud: do you think it will sort itself out after the lex branches come merging back to trunk?
23:12	pmichaud	yes.
23:12	masak	good.
23:12	pmichaud	so far every lexical example that's been submitted seems to work in the lex branch
23:12	masak	very good.
23:13	pmichaud	right now we're just having trouble with context management (contexts being collected too soon or not at all)
23:13	masak	sounds tricky.
23:13	jnthn	Having seen, but not worked on, the code in question I can say it almost certainly is tricky.
23:14	pmichaud	we're really close.
23:15	masak	pmichaud: as in, if I go to bed now I might have to backlog the merge?
23:18	pmichaud	you might.
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23:42	* moritz_	risks missing the merge, and goes to bed now ;)

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