Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2008-12-31

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:50 alc joined #perl6
00:51 cspencer joined #perl6
01:02 Caelum should I read "perl6 and parrot essentials" or is it completely out of date?
01:10 Larry joined #perl6
01:11 Larry joined #perl6
01:12 [particle] joined #perl6
01:15 Hell_Kaiser joined #perl6
01:16 cspencer_ joined #perl6
01:22 pmichaud Caelum: it's very much out of date.
01:23 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
01:34 [bjoern] joined #perl6
01:35 pasteling "[bjoern]" at 88.75.226.0 pasted "Latest svn, win32 build failure (In file included from perl5\p5embed.c:1:0: ...)" (32 lines, 1.2K) at http://sial.org/pbot/34137
01:37 [bjoern] perhaps it's about the " in '/Perl/lib/CORE"/EXTERN.h'?
01:37 [bjoern] not sure where that is coming from...
01:38 Caelum pmichaud: I see, thank you. What should I read then to learn perl6? "beginning perl6" is not going to be out until october
01:39 pmichaud Caelum: that's a good question at the moment.  You might look and see if there's anything useful on the perl6 wiki, or else there are the synopses.
01:39 pmichaud perl6 wiki:  http://www.perlfoundation.org/wiki/perl6
01:40 Caelum will do, thank you
01:40 pmichaud oops, wrong url.
01:40 pmichaud just a sec
01:40 [bjoern] ( http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6 )
01:41 pmichaud http://www.perlfoundation.​org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6
01:41 pmichaud bjoern's url works also (and is probably more canonically correct)
01:46 Limbic_Region hrm
01:47 Limbic_Region suggestion if anyone here has maintenance rights to http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?fud
01:47 Limbic_Region it is unclear that some of the FUD has no rebuttal
01:47 Limbic_Region http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?​fud#it_takes_too_long_to_port_all_cpan_modules
01:47 Limbic_Region for instance
01:49 Limbic_Region oh, and some rebuttals really should be updated
01:49 jferrero joined #perl6
01:49 Limbic_Region "If you do not want to have to keep Perl 5 around, the Ponie project aims to port Perl 5 on Parrot....."
01:50 Limbic_Region Ponie has been dead for years
01:55 [bjoern] So I take it it's Configure.PL that tries to get the path to the perl5 headers...
01:56 [bjoern] and it seems it tries to get the path out of the libpath flag...
01:56 [bjoern] hmm looks like a non-greedy match gone wrong there
02:03 [bjoern] that does not appear to be the problem
02:05 [bjoern] hmm it may be caching the configure.pl ...
02:10 rakudo_svn r34682 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]:  eval() returns Nil for void expressions (RT #61868, lathos++)
02:13 hercynium joined #perl6
02:14 pugs_svn r24698 | lwall++ | [S02] clarification of meaning of HyperWhatever
02:14 [bjoern] Does `$flags =~ s{([\\"'])}{\\$1}g;` do anything useful?
02:15 [bjoern] Oh i see...
02:17 Caelum my perl6 segfaults :(
02:18 Caelum oh right, I forgot to make clean first
02:23 pugs_svn r24699 | lwall++ | [S03] clean up some awkward phrasing
02:29 pasteling "[bjoern]" at 88.75.226.0 pasted "New build failures, ActivePerl 5.10.x's /Perl/lib/CORE/win32iop.h probably fails to define intptr_t in a manner compatible with mingw" (13 lines, 637B) at http://sial.org/pbot/34138
02:29 [bjoern] I only got there by stripping the quote marks from Pugs.buildinfo manually and setting the file to read only
02:30 [bjoern] somehow changes to Configure.PL didn't propagate quite as they should have
02:31 [bjoern] So let's patch the perl header file and see...
02:32 [bjoern] Great, now it fails because it cannot delete Pugs.buildinfo
02:33 kisu joined #perl6
02:34 [bjoern] ah I take it I have to modify the configure.pl in some Pugs-6.2.13.14.tar.gz file...
02:50 rakudo_svn r34683 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]:  Enable whatever star meaning "full slice" (e.g. @a[*])
03:03 cataska left #perl6
03:17 azawawi joined #perl6
03:17 azawawi hi
03:28 meppl good night
04:02 elmex joined #perl6
04:02 c9s__ joined #perl6
04:11 azawawi # last day morning in 2008 ;-)
04:21 s1n left #perl6
04:54 kisu joined #perl6
05:38 simcop2387 joined #perl6
06:18 justatheory joined #perl6
07:22 ChrisDavaz joined #perl6
07:33 samlh joined #perl6
07:39 samlh perl6: (0..1,2)[1].perl.say
07:39 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«\1␤»
07:39 p6eval ..rakudo 34688: OUTPUT«2␤»
07:39 p6eval ..elf 24699: OUTPUT«Can't use string ("2") as an ARRAY ref while "strict refs" in use at (eval 117) line 3.␤ at ./elf_f line 3861␤»
07:41 samlh I beleive rakudo is wrong; should submit a rakudobug?
07:57 samlh_ joined #perl6
08:08 samlh left #perl6
08:09 vixey joined #Perl6
08:28 DemoFreak joined #perl6
08:33 iblechbot joined #perl6
08:34 azawawi joined #perl6
09:09 barney joined #perl6
09:12 pdcawley joined #perl6
09:17 DemoPhreak joined #perl6
09:40 duke_leto joined #perl6
09:40 vixey joined #Perl6
10:00 rakudo_svn r34694 | bernhard++ | [codingstd] Satisfy trailing_space.t and pdd_format.t
10:09 pmurias joined #perl6
10:14 ejs joined #perl6
10:23 kisu_ joined #perl6
10:24 pmurias_ joined #perl6
10:26 tomyan joined #perl6
10:32 pmurias ruoso: i'm going to the runloop integration with Coro now, it's going to be slow but i don't know how to do it otherwise
10:37 yantom joined #perl6
10:51 maerzhase joined #perl6
11:02 kidd joined #perl6
11:17 kisu__ joined #perl6
11:20 moritz_ @tell masak I'm working on adding isa, does, can, clone to S29, but atm I can't commit here due to technical limitations
11:20 lambdabot Consider it noted.
11:46 clintongormley joined #perl6
11:50 pmurias moritz_: what stopes you from commiting, lack of a subversion client or a pesky proxy?
12:05 tacocat joined #perl6
12:15 icwiener joined #perl6
12:17 kisu_ joined #perl6
12:18 slavik joined #perl6
12:19 rindolf joined #perl6
12:32 masak joined #perl6
12:35 ruoso TimToady, Foo::.bar() really parses in a weird way... it considers "bar" a sym, instead of a dotty
12:39 tacocat joined #perl6
12:40 tacocat left #perl6
12:57 meppl joined #perl6
13:51 justatheory joined #perl6
14:05 vixey joined #Perl6
14:07 ruoso TimToady, forget it... it just works now...  ;)
14:08 masak just like that?
14:08 lambdabot masak: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
14:08 masak @messages
14:08 lambdabot moritz_ said 2h 47m 57s ago: I'm working on adding isa, does, can, clone to S29, but atm I can't commit here due to technical limitations
14:08 masak moritz_++
14:08 masak moritz_: I'm dangerously close to working on S29 too today. thanks for the update.
14:09 slavik fix eval?
14:09 slavik :P
14:09 slavik perl6: my $a = 5; eval 'say $a';
14:09 p6eval elf 24699, pugs: OUTPUT«5␤»
14:09 p6eval ..rakudo 34701: RESULT«undef»
14:09 slavik ooh, one of them works :D
14:09 masak hey, something's changed :)
14:09 slavik my $a = 5; eval 'say $b';
14:10 masak rakudo: my $a = 5; eval 'say $b';
14:10 p6eval rakudo 34701: RESULT«undef»
14:10 masak that's correct, at least.
14:10 masak rakudo: my $a = 5; eval 'say $b'; say $!
14:10 p6eval rakudo 34701: OUTPUT«Scope not found for PAST::Var '$b'␤»
14:11 masak rakudo: my $a = 5; eval 'say $a'; say $!
14:11 p6eval rakudo 34701: OUTPUT«Scope not found for PAST::Var '$a'␤»
14:11 masak hah!
14:11 masak that's wrong.
14:11 * masak reports this new development
14:14 masak slavik: I'd fix it, but the bug is likely somewhere in lexicals land, which scares me a bit.
14:14 pugs_svn r24700 | ruoso++ | [mildew] Foo::.method works now
14:14 slavik :(
14:15 ruoso mildew: module Foo { }; $OUT.print(Foo::.name.FETCH)
14:16 p6eval mildew: OUTPUT«Could not find variable $?PACKAGE in the lexical scope.␤»
14:16 ruoso hmm... mildew evalbot is a bit outdated
14:16 masak slavik: all right, I'll look. but I might not get very far.
14:17 slavik :D
14:19 masak I've always wanted to know how the eval function works anyway.
14:20 masak rakudo: eval "use Foo" or die $!
14:20 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«Can't find ./Foo in @INC␤current instr.: 'die' pc 14778 (src/builtins/control.pir:188)␤»
14:20 masak hm, that's different from the output on my bow.
14:20 masak s/w/x/
14:20 masak updating.
14:21 pmurias ruoso: does make test in mildew work for you?
14:22 ruoso pmurias, I had only one or two tests failing
14:22 * ruoso re-running
14:24 ruoso pmurias, the p5 test has two sub-tests failing
14:24 pmurias fixed
14:24 pugs_svn r24701 | pmurias++ | [mildew] fixed test count in p5.t
14:24 ruoso and classhow_add_method_real.t needs to be implemented with the new signature
14:27 slavik is there support for .perl on matchers yet?
14:27 slavik rakudo: say 2**32
14:27 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«4294967296␤»
14:27 slavik rakudo: say 2**64
14:27 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«1.84467440737096e+19␤»
14:27 slavik :(
14:28 masak slavik: I'm getting increasingly curious as to what it is you're trying to build.
14:29 slavik masak: I would like to be able to match a string against a grammar and get a dump of the structure of the matcher object that is returned
14:30 masak slavik: aye, that'd be neat. is it specced?
14:30 slavik masak: not sure :(
14:30 slavik masak: is it possible, looking at a var to tell what the type is, like if it's a plain scalar or a reference to an array and such
14:31 masak slavik: the var or the value it contains?
14:31 slavik the var
14:31 masak slavik: $x.VAR.WHAT, perhaps?
14:31 slavik like $var =5; $var2 = 1,2,3,4; to be able to tell that $var holds a single value and that $var2 is a reference to an array
14:32 masak rakudo: 'foobar1bar2' ~~ / [ bar \d ]+ /; say $/.perl
14:32 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«Method 'perl' not found for invocant of class 'Match'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 78 (EVAL_15:43)␤»
14:32 slavik that's interesting ...
14:32 masak slavik: well, $var.WHAT is enough for that.
14:33 slavik I see
14:33 masak slavik: becuase you're only interested in the value inside the variable.
14:33 slavik rakudo: my $var =5; say $var.WHAT;
14:33 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«Int␤»
14:33 slavik rakudo: my $var =1..6; say $var.WHAT;
14:33 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«Range␤»
14:33 slavik rakudo: my @list = 1..5; my $var = @list; say $var.WHAT;
14:33 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«Array␤»
14:33 slavik awesome
14:33 slavik rakudo: my @list = 1..5; my $var = @list; say $var.perl;
14:33 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]␤»
14:34 slavik rakudo: my %list = 1..5; my $var = @list; say $var.perl;
14:34 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«Scope not found for PAST::Var '@list'␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:102)␤»
14:34 slavik rakudo: my %list = 1..5; my $var = %list; say $var.what, $var.perl;
14:34 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«Odd number of elements found where hash expected␤current instr.: 'parrot;Perl6Hash;!STORE' pc 5748 (src/classes/Hash.pir:154)␤»
14:34 slavik rakudo: my %list = 1..6; my $var = %list; say $var.what, $var.perl;
14:34 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«Method 'what' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6Hash'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 122 (EVAL_14:55)␤»
14:34 slavik rakudo: my %list = 1..6; my $var = %list; say $var.perl;
14:34 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«{"1" => 2, "3" => 4, "5" => 6}␤»
14:36 slavik rakudo: my %list = 1..6; my $var = %list; say $list.what;
14:36 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«Scope not found for PAST::Var '$list'␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:102)␤»
14:36 slavik rakudo: my %list = 1..6; my $var = %list; say %list.what;
14:36 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«Method 'what' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6Hash'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 122 (EVAL_14:55)␤»
14:36 slavik :(
14:37 masak .WHAT, not .what
14:37 slavik oh
14:37 slavik rakudo: my %list = 1..6; my $var = %list; say %list.WHAT;
14:37 p6eval rakudo 34703: OUTPUT«Hash␤»
14:37 slavik masak: that's a bit inconsistant ...
14:37 slavik .perl, but .WHAT
14:37 slavik is .perl a function?
14:37 masak slavik: yes. and .WHAT is (ideally) a macro.
14:37 slavik I see
14:37 masak well, .perl is a method. :)
14:38 slavik masak: method/function ...
14:38 masak aye.
14:38 slavik masak: same **** different name :P
14:38 masak except when it isn't.
14:38 slavik is it possible to dereference a var as a hash to see what functions/macros and such it has?
14:38 masak it will be.
14:39 slavik awesome
14:39 masak %hash.^methods
14:39 slavik I mean to do it for $var
14:39 masak or %hash.WHAT.methods (I think)
14:39 masak slavik: exemplify.
14:40 slavik in perl5, you can take a package, treat it as a hash and print out all the functions/variable/whatever it has
14:40 masak you can? neat!
14:41 slavik err, you didn't know that?
14:41 masak I know at least classes will have such introspection capabilities in Perl 6. don't know about modules and packages and such.
14:42 masak slavik: no, I'm relatively inexperienced as a Perl 5 programmer.
14:42 slavik I see
14:42 masak slavik: I use it a lot, but I'm no expert.
14:42 slavik it would be nice, because then you can literally check if the module/whatever has the functionality you need
14:43 slavik no need to rely on version and such, unless the output from stuff changes
14:43 jhorwitz joined #perl6
14:44 slavik masak: the package introspection is how I was able to get a list of the Purple and Pidgin API that is exposed to the Perl interpreter. :) then it was a matter of looking up the appropriate C function to see what it does
14:45 masak slavik: I suggest you make it your mission to have this corner of Perl 6 specced and eventually implemented.
14:45 masak slavik: I also predict that this will make you very happy.
14:45 slavik yes
14:45 slavik I love that Perl let's you do everything ...
14:46 masak slavik: seriously. go put your suggestions in the nearest Spec document.
14:46 wolverian including misusing apostrophes! graa!
14:46 * wolverian runs outside screaming
14:46 masak wolverian++ # 哈哈哈
14:47 wolverian are those houses? :)
14:48 masak wolverian: I thought you were outside.
14:48 masak wolverian: no, they're sinographs for laughter.
14:48 masak wolverian: I've found that's a very logical way to depict laughter.
14:49 wolverian ah. I thought it was the scenery.
14:49 wolverian I have a laptop; I can run outside _and_ IRC.
14:49 masak wolverian: I can picture it very clearly.
14:49 slavik masak, will look at it ...
14:50 slavik but been busy
14:50 wolverian yet another normal day in my life; http://irc.fi/wolverian might help.
14:50 masak ah, .fi
14:50 masak hello, neighbour.
14:51 slavik masak: here's another one ... since it is possible for evaled code to inherit the current state (defined vars and such), what if it was possible for the oposite? define a var in an eval and then access it after eval
14:51 slavik so that basically, the eval simply copies/pastes the codes like a #define
14:51 wolverian maybe I will run to sweden!
14:52 tomyan joined #perl6
14:52 masak wolverian: screaming all the way!
14:53 wolverian absolutely. though I suppose if I want to run over land, the detour is a bit long..
14:53 masak wolverian: or run right up to the border, throwing the extra apostrophe as long as you can over it.
14:55 wolverian haha.
14:55 wolverian masak++
14:56 masak if I can keep this up, I'll acheive my life-long dream: being able to write like _why.
14:58 masak http://poignantguide.net/ruby/chapter-5.html
14:58 masak slavik: see 'macros'.
14:59 slavik will do
14:59 slavik in that chapter?
15:01 masak S06, methinks.
15:01 masak somewhere near the bottom.
15:01 masak slavik: got ack?
15:02 slavik huh?
15:02 masak http://search.cpan.org/dist/ack/
15:02 slavik what's the new url for the synopsis?
15:03 slavik never used it
15:04 masak slavik: I suggest you try it. specifically, download Pugs and docs/Perl6/Spec, and use ack on it. you'll never have to search manually again.
15:04 slavik I see
15:04 masak .oO( maybe now would be a good time to implement that spec-ack-bot we've been mumbling about )
15:04 masak slavik: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S06.html
15:04 masak bbiab
15:05 slavik bbiab?
15:05 ruoso pmurias, I was thinking we could refactor mildew, creating a src/VAST directory with each vast type in a separated file
15:05 ruoso slavik, Be Back In A Bit
15:05 slavik oh, ok
15:05 slavik brb is shorter
15:06 ruoso pmurias, mildew is starting to be too big in loc
15:09 pmurias ruoso: ok
15:11 pmurias you mean like moving VAST::comp_unit::emit_m0ld to src/VAST/comp_unit.pm
15:11 pmurias ?
15:11 ruoso yes...
15:12 pugs_svn r24702 | ruoso++ | [mildew] initial support for Symbolic_unary
15:12 pmurias seperating the traversal routines from the main code would be a good start
15:12 ruoso then we do a "for <src/VAST/*.pm> { require $_ }"
15:15 pmurias i'm fighting with Coro now feel free to refactor mildew
15:18 tomyan joined #perl6
15:27 masak joined #perl6
15:30 masak slavik: 'brb' is shorter, but it also IMO conveys a shorter time span
15:30 kisu joined #perl6
15:30 slavik oh
15:30 SamB how about biab? that's shorter than bbiab but conveys the same idea, no?
15:31 masak SamB: aye.
15:32 masak offhand, I don't see a difference between the two.
15:32 Matt-W aieee
15:32 Matt-W my parrot won't compile
15:33 masak Matt-W: 'make realclean; perl Makefile.PL; make'?
15:36 Matt-W masak: I shall try
15:36 slavik make realclean; perl Makefile.PL; make; make perl6; sudo make reallyinstall
15:36 slavik that's what I do :)
15:37 slavik and an svn update after make realclean :)
15:37 Matt-W I don't install my parrot yet
15:37 Matt-W which means my perl 6 scripts have #!/home/matthew/Compiling/p​arrot/languages/perl6/perl6 at the top
15:37 pmurias ruoso: have you ever tried using gobby?
15:37 Matt-W but I can live with that :)
15:38 slavik k
15:38 Matt-W how's rakudo doing for rule/grammar support at the moment?
15:38 slavik Matt-W: really good :)
15:38 slavik Matt-W: bcacm.org/~slavik/
15:39 alester joined #perl6
15:39 ft joined #perl6
15:40 Matt-W slavik: thanks. I'm planning to try something with them and thought I should check if it's a pointless undertaking yet
15:41 ruoso pmurias, gobby?
15:41 slavik Matt-W: afaik there are no assertions yet
15:42 Matt-W slavik: I don't know what assertions are yet, so perhaps I won't miss them too much
15:42 Matt-W I really need to play with rules to understand more about how they work
15:42 slavik Matt-W: after you read the post, you will start missing them ;)
15:42 slavik Matt-W: rules, tokens, etc are just regex with some preapplied flags.
15:43 pmurias ruoso: gobby is a "multiplayer" editor
15:43 slavik grammar = hierarchy of said rules, tokens, regex
15:43 slavik pmurias: I believe that is IRC :P
15:45 pmurias slavik: do you consider cat(1) an editor?
15:46 slavik hmm
15:46 slavik no, but cat | sed is :)
15:47 pmurias doesn't sed make only one pass?
15:47 pmurias i guess if we all used ed we could have an editorbot
15:48 Matt-W I'm afraid I'm very fussy and am only truly happy when I'm using vim
15:48 ruoso pmurias, is there a debian package for gobby?
15:48 pmurias yes gobby
15:52 ruoso pmurias, I cant host a gobby session, because I'm behind asquerade
15:53 pmurias you mean masquerade?
15:54 ruoso yes
15:54 Matt-W woo, I have a perl6 again
15:54 Matt-W I shall have to remember make realclean for next time, as make clean didn't sort it out
15:56 pmurias ruoso: opened one on feather.perl6.nl:6522
15:57 ruoso pmurias, it doesn't seem to have syntax highlight
15:57 ruoso ah it does
15:59 kisu joined #perl6
15:59 pmurias the editor doesn't support vim binding unfortunatly...
16:00 Matt-W do grammars, rules and objects share the same namespace?
16:00 slavik Matt-W: grammars and classes, probably
16:01 pmurias rules share the namespace with methods
16:01 ruoso pmurias, hmm... I think emacs+irc seems more productive
16:01 Matt-W okay
16:15 lichtkind joined #perl6
16:15 kisu joined #perl6
16:16 eric2561 joined #perl6
16:17 eric2561 @tell unobe i added you to the git-hub repo as a collaborator
16:17 lambdabot Consider it noted.
16:22 pugs_svn r24703 | pmurias++ | [smop] trying out using Coro for runloop integration - proof of concept pulp
16:28 masak eric2561: how's the repo going?
16:29 ruoso pmurias, I'm doing that refactoring... so if you plan to change mildew, please wait a little bit...
16:29 masak Matt-W: instead of providing the whole path to perl6 in your perl scripts, consider creating an alias.
16:30 masak Matt-W: `alias perl6=/.../parrot/languages/perl6`
16:30 Matt-W masak: at this stage, I'm quite content with the current arrangement
16:30 masak and putting it in your ~/.bash_profile
16:30 masak Matt-W: ok. you do what you prefer.
16:30 Matt-W I am having some trouble with a rule though
16:30 slavik how about PERL6LIB that is predefined?!
16:30 slavik :P
16:31 slavik Matt-W: see my example, if you use rule, the spaces between braces matter
16:31 masak slavik: doesn't solve the above problem, but yes, it'd be nice.
16:31 slavik hence the use of tokens in my article
16:31 Matt-W I thought whitespace was always metasyntactic in perl 6 rules
16:32 slavik Matt-W: not in rules, tokens yes, rules no
16:32 slavik regex is also /x I think
16:33 masak all of them are /x in Perl6
16:34 Matt-W it appears that the :sigspace modifier (default on rules) makes *some* whitespace significant
16:34 eric2561 masak just stalled while i'm vacationing ;) the few days i've had to work on it i've been to busy with real work...and now its back to cleaning the house, but i'll be back soon
16:34 masak eric2561: sounds good. looking forward to seeing it grow and prosper.
16:35 slavik Matt-W: I prefer to use token :)
16:36 ruoso pmurias, it wasn't that hard... I'm about to commit the refactoring..
16:38 szabgab rakudo: $year = 2008; $year++; $year.say
16:38 p6eval rakudo 34710: OUTPUT«Scope not found for PAST::Var '$year'␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:102)␤»
16:38 szabgab rakudo $year = 2008;
16:39 szabgab rakudo: $year = 2008;
16:39 p6eval rakudo 34710: OUTPUT«Scope not found for PAST::Var '$year'␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:102)␤»
16:39 szabgab rakudo: my $year = 2008;
16:39 p6eval rakudo 34710: RESULT«2008»
16:39 szabgab rakudo: my $year = 2008; $year++;
16:39 p6eval rakudo 34710: RESULT«2008»
16:39 szabgab rakudo: my $year = 2008; $year++; $year.say
16:39 p6eval rakudo 34710: OUTPUT«2009␤»
16:39 szabgab rakudo: my $year; $year //= 2009;
16:39 p6eval rakudo 34710: OUTPUT«get_bool() not implemented in class 'Timer'␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;command_line' pc 1442 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:771)␤»
16:40 * masak reports rakudobug
16:41 rindolf szabgab: hi.
16:41 rindolf Happy new year
16:43 cspencer joined #perl6
16:43 ejs joined #perl6
16:44 pmurias rindolf: happy new year
16:45 rindolf pmurias: thanks.
16:46 pugs_svn r24704 | ruoso++ | [mildew] refactor VAST::* to separated files, should be easier to maintain...;
16:46 * ruoso still counts a few hours (and a second) to new year
16:47 masak yes, can't they leave those seconds alone?
16:47 masak now we have to go '3 .. 2 .. 1 .. hold it .. happy new year!' this year.
16:48 ruoso and you never know if the clock was already updated or not
16:48 ruoso because the second is added 00:00:00 UTC
16:48 slavik rakudo: say 6..1;
16:48 p6eval rakudo 34710: OUTPUT«␤»
16:48 slavik rakudo: say -6..1;
16:48 p6eval rakudo 34710: OUTPUT«-6-5-4-3-2-101␤»
16:48 ruoso I always thought 6..1 would return 6,5,4,3,2,1
16:49 slavik ruoso: I thought so, too
16:49 slavik perl6: say 6..1;
16:49 p6eval elf 24703, pugs, rakudo 34710: OUTPUT«␤»
16:49 slavik oh, wow
16:50 icwiener say reverse 1..6
16:50 rindolf say 6..1:-1
16:50 rindolf rakudo: say 6..1:-1
16:50 p6eval rakudo 34710: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ":-1"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
16:50 rindolf rakudo: say 6..1,-1
16:50 p6eval rakudo 34710: OUTPUT«-1␤»
16:51 ruoso rakudo say 6..1 :by -1
16:51 pmurias how was the env variable to tell where the perl5 modules live called?
16:51 ruoso perldoc perlrun should tell you
16:52 icwiener rakudo: say reverse 1..6
16:52 p6eval rakudo 34710: OUTPUT«654321␤»
16:52 ruoso rakudo: say 6..1 :by -1
16:52 p6eval rakudo 34710: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ":by -1"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
16:53 masak needs parens.
16:53 icwiener rakudo: say 6..1:by(-1)
16:53 p6eval rakudo 34710: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ":by(-1)"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
16:54 masak rakudo: say (6,,1):by(-1)
16:54 p6eval rakudo 34710: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ":by(-1)"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
16:54 masak rakudo: say (6..1):by(-1)
16:54 p6eval rakudo 34710: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ":by(-1)"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
16:54 masak ok, Rakudo simply doesn't implement that yet.
16:57 icwiener S03 says: 2..1:by(-1) but reverse 1..2 is preferred because it works for alphabetic ranges as well.
16:58 masak icwiener: not true anymore. :)
16:58 masak at least, I've written tests for ('C'..'A'):by(-1)
16:58 masak see recent discussion on this channel
16:58 masak (as in, a few days back)
16:59 pugs_svn r24705 | ruoso++ | [mildew] support :(\$capture) in signatures, all tests pass now ;)
16:59 icwiener Ok. Is S03 going to be updated accordingly? I mean, is it standard procedure?
17:00 masak icwiener: the spec and the tests will just have to fight it out, I guess,
17:01 icwiener What does that mean?
17:01 vixey joined #Perl6
17:02 ruoso now mildew supports receiving a capture as-is and passing it forward to another method without enforcing any context on it... :) :) :)
17:02 ruoso this means that you can call foo(bar(),baz(),bla()) and foo might delay enforcing the context as long as it wants
17:10 Morpheus[PL] joined #perl6
17:10 Morpheus[PL] Hi
17:10 pmurias Morpheus[PL]: hi
17:11 Morpheus[PL] Hi pmurias (:
17:13 Morpheus[PL] What I need to try perl6?
17:13 Morpheus[PL] Only pugs or pugs+parrot..?
17:13 slavik Morpheus[PL]: pugs or rakudo :)
17:13 hercynium joined #perl6
17:13 slavik I'd suggest rakudo since it is more feature complete atm
17:14 slavik rakudo = perl6 on parrot
17:14 Morpheus[PL] Hm
17:14 Morpheus[PL] So what is pugs for ?
17:14 Morpheus[PL] It's different perl6 implementation?
17:15 pmurias yes, pugs is written in haskell and dead atm
17:15 mberends joined #perl6
17:15 Morpheus[PL] So which one will be official perl distribution in future?
17:16 slavik Morpheus[PL]: anything passing the spec test :)
17:17 pugs_svn r24706 | lwall++ | [undef.t] there is no my() function...declarators require space
17:25 ruoso TimToady, "is export" only means that it is exportable, right... you still need to "use Foo <symbol>" to import it, right?, does the :DEFAULT tagset means that it is imported even without explicit request?
17:26 TimToady that was how it was designed, but I'm thinking multis should always be imported by default
17:28 TimToady most languages that do multiple dispatch just make them all global
17:28 TimToady we don't do that, but importing all the multis we find anywhere seems like the next best thing
17:29 TimToady where, in this case, "next best" actually means "better" :)
17:31 pmurias if do different modules declare a multi with proto should we just mix them together?
17:32 pmurias as multis without a proto declaration declare additional meaning and ones with a proto declaration override it
17:32 TimToady we could just merge them into a multisig proto
17:33 jrockway joined #perl6
17:33 TimToady then we complain only on a multi that doesn't match either of the protos
17:34 TimToady on the other hand, it might pessimize rewriting named args to positionals, and make it much harder to do multiple dispatch
17:35 literal hm, are private object attributes read only by default?
17:35 slavik rakudo: my $a = 1..10; for =$a { say $_; }
17:35 p6eval rakudo 34712: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤»
17:35 TimToady readonly to whom?
17:35 slavik rakudo: my $a = 1..10; for =$a { say; }
17:35 p6eval rakudo 34712: OUTPUT«␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤␤»
17:36 literal to the object itself
17:36 TimToady no, they're rw
17:36 literal oh, ok, so Ovid was just being overly verbose in his hangman source then
17:36 literal http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/38191
17:38 TimToady yes, "is rw" is applied only to the accessor, and since there aren't any accessors there, it's a Useless Use of "is rw"
17:39 literal will Rakudo eventually warn of such things?
17:39 pmurias if someone implement it
17:39 pmurias * implements
17:40 literal yeah, I'm just asking if that's something to be desired or not :)
17:40 TimToady we could require it in the spec, but that seems like overkill
17:40 TimToady in general, it's fine to warn about anything the compiler knows is completely bogus
17:41 TimToady it's when it starts guessing that it gets into trouble
17:41 TimToady there are some instances of .= that STD currently guesses about wrongly, for instance
17:42 literal that's temporary, right? I thought getting rid of guessing was one of the objectives with Perl 6 :)
17:44 TimToady well, guessing on warnings has less danger than guessing on the actual p6 parse...
17:44 xinming joined #perl6
17:48 literal eric2561: so how does this work, what do I do if I want to push a patch (e.g. euler solution) to the perl6-examples repo?
17:48 TimToady and in the case of .= it continues parsing as if it's a mutating method call, but it doesn't like my Fooz $f .=(:x(1)) from t/oo/construction.t
17:51 ruoso TimToady, it feelds awkward that multis get to the default tagset where regular subs doesn't
17:52 * azawawi2009 starts highlighting hangman ;-)
17:52 TimToady it's because multis are really more like methods than like functions
17:53 TimToady you don't have to worry about exporting methods either
17:53 TimToady they Just Happen
17:53 TimToady the only reason we don't just shove all multis into GLOBAL is that we want different lexical scopes to be able to support different languages
17:54 TimToady and we don't want magical action at a distance, esp at run time
17:54 TimToady so we want to know at least the set of protos by compile time
17:56 TimToady we could go as far as to disallow run-time multis in packages unless there's a compile-time proto in that package
17:56 TimToady because it would be really nice for the optimizer to know exactly what set of multis it's dealing with
17:57 azawawi2009 TimToady: p5 '~=' => p6 '~~', right?
17:57 TimToady =~ rather
17:57 TimToady in p5 ~= would be the xor assignment operators
17:58 azawawi2009 so in line 15: subset Letter of Str where { $_ =~ /^ <[a..z]> $/ };
17:58 TimToady or maybe that's ^=
17:58 azawawi2009 i get obsolete use of =~, please use ~~
17:58 TimToady indeed
17:59 TimToady the warning is entirely correct
17:59 masak I was going to write that in a comment.
17:59 masak just haven't gotten around to it.
17:59 TimToady and p6 will parse that as $_ = ~/.../
17:59 s1n joined #perl6
17:59 TimToady so it's Simply Wrong
18:01 ruoso TimToady, ok... mildew/smop doesn't support multis yet, so I'm more concerned about the exportation of regular subs
18:01 s1n jerry gay is responsible for the S19 draft, correct?
18:03 pdcawley joined #perl6
18:04 [particle] yes, i am.
18:04 ruoso TimToady, anyway... have you thought about the 'capture in item context' issue?
18:05 s1n [particle]: i have a question about one part, it says single letter options cannot be clustered
18:05 s1n [particle]: why? that not only breaks from perl5 but also most unices
18:05 [particle] you need to get the updated version
18:05 [particle] clustering is now allowed again, see...
18:05 s1n lemme check the cabal...
18:06 [particle] http://perlcabal.org/syn/S19.html
18:06 s1n ahh yeah, okay, thanks heh
18:06 s1n sorry, i was sifting through _a lot_ of spec commit emails heh
18:07 [particle] no problem, i committed a bunch of changes yesterday which i made on holiday travel flights
18:08 s1n ahh okay, well i clearly have a few weeks worth of ml emails to sift though, thanks for saving me from making an embarassing email :)
18:08 [particle] i'd be very happy to hear any other comments you have
18:08 ruoso TimToady, smop currently implements the changed behavior, you can see how that looks like in pugs/v6/mildew/t/return_function.t
18:09 s1n there's a bunch to digest, looks like the arguments will get very complex very quick but i'm not really that much of a perl expert :)
18:10 s1n the open/close delimiters look confusing, not sure how you're going to use that
18:11 [particle] basically, we need to be able to pass values through to subsystems without perl parsing them
18:11 s1n is that the best way to do it? ...
18:11 s1n how is --argsproc options,values,options,values any different than what you have?
18:12 s1n in other words, why is the closing delimiter needed?
18:12 [particle] because the subsystem might take an option that is a valid perl 6 option
18:12 [particle] need to make sure perl doesn't get confused
18:13 s1n pardon my ignorance, but couldn't you assume the next token shouldn't be parsed?
18:13 * azawawi syntax highlighted hangman -> http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/hangman/
18:13 s1n btw, autoloop-print is missing the '--' in front
18:13 [particle] ++parser -o -- -foobar-file- ++/parser -o foo -O pbc
18:14 s1n what about: --parser '-o -- -foobar-file' -o foo -O pbc
18:15 [particle] then you need to deal with shell quoting
18:15 TimToady doesn't allow file globbing in args very well
18:15 [particle] and what if you want to ... right
18:15 s1n oh, well just asking
18:15 [particle] these are good questions
18:15 s1n it's rather unique, so i wanted to know why
18:16 TimToady most users will only see the mundane options
18:16 TimToady even if they desugar to something with ++foo ... ++/foo
18:16 s1n TimToady: isn't that true with perl5 too :)
18:16 TimToady in this sense p5 only has mundane options :)
18:17 s1n i'm not saying it's bad, just unique, that is most users will not be familiar with command-line syntax that has delimiters like that
18:17 [particle] well, perl 6 is a language spec, not an implementation spec. it needs to deal with multiple implementations.
18:17 TimToady I do think I'd capitialize all the magical ++FOO thingies though because it's hard to see them otherwise
18:18 [particle] imagine how nice life would be for c programmers if all c compilers took the same options
18:18 TimToady what there's other compilers than gcc?
18:19 s1n that's absurd
18:19 s1n There Can Be Only One
18:19 TimToady it must be 2008 or something
18:19 slavik [particle]: that would make sense, and we can't have none of that
18:20 [particle] ok, so it looks like i'm on the right track :)
18:20 slavik :D
18:20 s1n [particle]: have to checked to see how well ++ and ++/ play with unix shells?
18:20 s1n or other shells for that matter
18:20 [particle] TimToady: i can capitalize them, it just looked like shouting to me. would titlecase be loud enough?
18:20 s1n IMPORTANT THINGS ARE ALWAYS SHOUTED!
18:20 TimToady I think they want to be shouted
18:20 slavik is there a C compiler for parrot?
18:21 [particle] ok, then.
18:21 [particle] slavik: there's a c header parser
18:21 slavik doesn't count :P
18:21 TimToady otherwise the proper subsystem might not hear :)
18:21 [particle] TimToady: i wonder how subsystems will return errors to perl 6, and does that need to be specced?
18:22 s1n [particle]: another thing, something like autoloop-split should probably be ++...
18:22 TimToady p6 knows how to deal with failure :)
18:22 s1n that is, ++F use Text::CSV ++/F
18:22 s1n rather than the {}?
18:23 [particle] well, i see the compiler (and other) subsystems removing the -- before things like '--CHECK{...}'
18:24 [particle] then executing the code contained within
18:24 s1n why is {} different than option closures though?
18:24 [particle] so the {...} syntax allows arbitrary perl 6 code to run
18:24 s1n that's providing 2 different kinds of option delimiters
18:25 pmurias what's the runtime equivalent of -O
18:25 pmurias ?
18:25 [particle] pmurias: for rakudo, it's --target=[parse|past|post|pir]
18:26 pmurias what i really meant if with -O i can specify what to compile to, how to i specify how to execute the code when not compiling
18:26 [particle] i forget what pugs did
18:26 [particle] that will depend on your runtime
18:27 pmurias pugs has -B and -C like mildew and kp6 had?
18:27 [particle] i don't know if perl will take for example foo.past as input and compile it the rest of the way
18:27 TimToady --CHECK seems unnecessary when you can just say -e 'CHECK {...}'
18:27 ovid joined #perl6
18:28 TimToady bbl &
18:28 [particle] i'm not certain i can just say 'CHECK{...}' as it may be interpreted as a filename
18:29 Psyche^ joined #perl6
18:29 ovid If I submit a bug report for Rakudo, I would like to include patch with a test, but I don't want a failing test suite. Are there guidelines on submitting TODO, or "must not run" tests?  How do they get converted to passing tests later?
18:30 [particle] ovid: can you make it into a spectest, and fudge it for rakudo?
18:30 ruoso ovid, you can add a fudged test
18:30 ovid Spectest? Does that mean commit it to the old pugs repository? I don't even know my user/pass for that any more :)
18:31 [particle] #?rakudo todo 'RT #nnnnn'
18:31 [particle] ovid, i can give you a new commit bit
18:31 ovid @particle: OK.
18:31 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
18:32 [particle] ovid your current email is: publiustemp-perl6pugs@yahoo
18:32 ovid Ooh, let me check to see if that's still active.  brb
18:33 ovid Looks like that's long gone. I'll recreate it.
18:33 [particle] you'd still have to remember the password :)
18:34 [particle] apparently, you're an administrator, and i can't delete administrator commit bit accounts
18:34 [particle] oh, i see, i can only delete pending bits anyway
18:34 ovid What's the checkout URL? I'll see if I can remember it.
18:34 [particle] i can resend the email
18:34 [particle] http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs
18:35 ovid Email address added.
18:36 [particle] ovid: message sent
18:36 ovid Thanks
18:37 rindolf Hi ovid
18:37 rindolf ovid: Happy New Year.
18:37 ovid HI Shlomi. Thanks.
18:37 ovid Er, rindolf. Sorry. :)
18:37 ovid Hope you (and everyone else) has a happy new year, too.
18:37 rindolf ovid: what's up?
18:38 ovid Just trying to figure out how to submit test patches for bugs.
18:38 rindolf ovid: which bugs?
18:38 ovid Any I find. There are several in RT.
18:39 rindolf ovid: ah.
18:39 [particle] ovid: it's a little annoying, since you need to deal with multiple repositories, but that's the way of the future, i hear.
18:39 ovid It would be a little less annoying if it were at least git instead of Subversion :)
18:39 rindolf ovid: have you released that module you blogged about a lot on use.perl.org?
18:39 [particle] i hate git on windows.
18:39 ovid Which module?
18:40 ovid I've blogged about many.
18:40 rindolf ovid: don't remember.
18:40 rindolf ovid: but you've blogged about it a lot.
18:40 rindolf And then stopped.
18:40 rindolf Let me find it on your journal.
18:40 rindolf It had a Japanese-sounding name.
18:40 ovid Bermuda? (Not Japanese sounding, but that might be what you mean)
18:41 s1n [particle]: you use windows?
18:41 rindolf ovid: maybe. Let me see.
18:41 [particle] ovid: nice work on the hangman program. i noticed at least one magic number there though
18:41 araujo joined #perl6
18:41 [particle] s1n: yes, i've been developing on windows for many, many years
18:42 s1n [particle]: i'm sorry :)
18:42 ovid Number of tries on finding a valid word or appropriate word length? It's a bit hackish and embarrassing, but I struggled to make it work with what I knew and what Rakudo offers.  Fun, though.
18:43 rindolf ovid: yes - http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/35655
18:43 [particle] 6..* is what i remember
18:43 ovid And all of those "self!private_method" calls are just ugly!
18:43 ovid [rindolf]: never released it.  It's nowhere close to good to go. I could toss it on github at some point, but it's abandonware right now. :/
18:44 rindolf ovid: ah.
18:44 apeiron joined #perl6
18:50 pugs_svn r24707 | particle++ | [S19] fix typo, s1n++
18:54 pugs_svn r24708 | particle++ | [S19] metasyntactic options should shout, to stand out. TimToady++
18:54 rindolf joined #perl6
19:00 abebae joined #perl6
19:00 ovid [particle] Are you sure that email went out? I just sent a test one from gmail and received it a few seconds later. publiustemp-perl6pugs@yahoo.com
19:00 ovid NM. Spam folder :)
19:03 pugs_svn r24709 | Ovid++ | Add test to check autovivification of accessing a top-level hash element.  [perl #61882]
19:13 masak azawawi: http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawaw​i/hangman/hangman.snippet.html is very beautiful.
19:14 s1n sigh, man getting 5.10 into gentoo has been a real struggle
19:14 [particle] s1n: it's easy on windows ;)
19:15 s1n [particle]: they decided making separate ebuilds for each module would be a good idea. it wasn't (imho)
19:16 ovid Hmm, took me a moment to realize why this wasn't working:  ack -i 'pigs skip' t/spec
19:16 [particle] azawawi: seems coloring is off for "You guessed '$letter'"; in hangman, due to embedded quoting
19:17 s1n ovid: they skip now? i thought it was cool that they could fly
19:17 ovid Well, you know, genetic engineering and all.
19:17 TimToady [particle]: you missed the -e
19:17 masak [particle]: what's off about it?
19:18 ovid So with 'fudge', you can't skip a test in the middle of a test block? It must be the whole block or nothing?
19:18 [particle] method guess_letter ($letter) has blue '$', red 'letter'
19:18 [particle] '$letter' has purple "'" and blue '$letter'
19:18 TimToady [particle]: as in -e 'CHECK...'
19:19 [particle] TimToady: ah, gotcha
19:19 masak ovid: someone might have said this already, but parens isn't required around the list in an array assignment.
19:19 masak ovid: nice script, btw.
19:19 TimToady only thing is, -e would throw off the line count
19:19 ovid masak: post the 'parens' comment to use.perl or the mailing list. Others should see that so they can get the new idioms drilled in.
19:20 [particle] actually, method guess_letter has blue '$l' and red 'etter'
19:20 masak ovid: gotcha.
19:20 ovid [masak]: thanks :)
19:21 [particle] ovid, masak: thoughts about a script repo with liberal commit policy?
19:22 ovid Tempting, but you might get a lot of junk in there (might be better than a lot of nothing, though)
19:22 [particle] like, say, pugs? examples/ maybe?
19:22 masak [particle]: is eric2561's Perl 6 Examples repo liberal enough for you?
19:22 [particle] never heard of it
19:22 masak [particle]: http://github.com/eric256/perl6-examples/
19:22 [particle] please don't say it's git.
19:22 [particle] eh, well.
19:22 s1n hah
19:22 masak it's git.
19:22 ovid git++
19:23 s1n [particle]: come to the dark side :)
19:23 s1n we have cookies
19:23 ovid And git.
19:23 s1n yes, and git :)
19:23 masak (cookies and git)++
19:23 apeiron_ joined #perl6
19:23 [particle] git and tonic, maybe
19:24 masak :)
19:24 s1n [particle]: at least install a vm already
19:24 TimToady all the self!foo should be replacable with $!foo
19:25 TimToady and as pointed out earlier, 'is rw' is useless on private vars
19:25 [particle] s1n: i have 14 vms
19:25 s1n [particle]: i assume there's one with git
19:26 GitHub148 joined #perl6
19:26 GitHub148 perl6-examples: 3David Romano master0 SHA1-f8b6172
19:26 GitHub148 Added wsg (Winter Scripting Games) directory and an example
19:26 GitHub148 http://is.gd/eiYh
19:26 GitHub148 left #perl6
19:26 pugs_svn r24710 | Ovid++ | Trying to make this suitable for "make spectest" with Rakudo.
19:26 pugs_svn r24710 | Ovid++ |
19:26 pugs_svn r24710 | Ovid++ | The skip tests work, but the first TODO test doesn't TODO.
19:26 pugs_svn r24710 | Ovid++ | Also, tests die part way through, but I can't figure out how to make part of a
19:26 pugs_svn r24710 | Ovid++ | test skip instead of all of it.
19:27 ovid If anyone wants to add that test to ls t/spectest.data in languages/perl6 (just locally, not as a commit), I'd be grateful if you could explain the issues I raised in that commit.  Sorry to be a pain :/
19:27 [particle] i wonder if pmichaud++'s rval branch will fix these hash autovivification errors
19:28 masak TimToady: by "useless", you mean "the default, so you're wasting keystrokes", right?
19:28 ovid [TimToady] Replace self!foo with $!foo? What if I have "has $!foo" and "my method foo"? That's a bug I had to work around.
19:28 [particle] ovid: did you know you can create t/localtest.data and run 'make localtest' to test only those files you want?
19:29 masak ovid: first time I've seen the =open($file) idion. neat!
19:29 ovid [particle]: nope. I wrote vim bindings that let me run perl6 tests from my editor. That's just the way I'm used to doing things. Maybe not the best.
19:29 TimToady ovid: Doctor, it hurts when I do this...
19:30 GitHub2 joined #perl6
19:30 GitHub2 perl6-examples: 3David Romano master0 SHA1-0de80d0
19:30 GitHub2 [wsg] Added README
19:30 GitHub2 http://is.gd/eiYY
19:30 GitHub2 left #perl6
19:31 * [particle] turns off enter/leave messages
19:31 ovid [TimToady]: are you saying that people shouldn't have methods with the same names as variables? I routinely have 'sub foo { shift->{foo} }'. It's a common idiom. Or have I misunderstood?
19:31 [particle] then have the accessors auto-generated
19:31 TimToady if it's a public method, you should just use $.foo
19:32 TimToady if it's private and you know it's a no-op, why do you have it?
19:32 ovid [particle]: but that doesn't work if I need to do some any work before returning the variable (such as precalculate it on demand).
19:33 ovid Or fetch it from a Web service, or check the user's permissions, etc.
19:33 ovid [TimToady]: I had get_word() because it could be read publicly, but is set privately. I'll have to read through the docs some more.
19:34 TimToady then give the backing store a different name, since it obviously doesn't mean the same thing :)
19:34 * ovid scratches his head :)
19:37 pugs_svn r24711 | particle++ | [S06] update to shortname syntax in command-line examples
19:38 Matt-W Ow my head
19:38 Matt-W I clearly don't understand rules as much as I thought I did
19:39 pugs_svn r24712 | particle++ | [S19] update C<--CHECK{...}> syntax with more standard C<-e 'CHECK{...}'>
19:39 Matt-W Oh
19:40 masak Matt-W: I know the feeling.
19:40 Matt-W There seems to be some automatic chomping going on
19:40 ovid [TimToady]: so if naming a private method the same name as a variable is discouraged and a no-op, should it be illegal? It was a hard bug for me to track down.
19:40 masak Matt-W: that's likely not the rules, but the readline.
19:41 Matt-W masak: yes, is it supposed to chomp by default? I didn't tell it to
19:41 masak Matt-W: =$*IN chomps by default, yes.
19:41 Matt-W Right
19:41 Matt-W Okay, so that's all behaving properly then
19:41 nnunley How lazy is START?  Could ovid use that for his lazy initialization pattern?  (ie has $foo = START { ... } )
19:42 Matt-W Now I have some tokens that match entire lines in my input. Can I write a rule or token or something which can match a specified sequence of them in a multiline input string?
19:43 masak Matt-W: exemplify.
19:44 [particle] rule some_lines { <one_line> <another_line> <a_different_line> }
19:44 masak right. where each rule for a line looks like { ^^ ... $$ }
19:44 s1n [particle]: what does CHECK do?
19:45 Matt-W gargh
19:45 Matt-W curse my Perl 5 brain
19:45 apeiron joined #perl6
19:46 Matt-W oh also, how do I say 'a line that doesn't begin with a .'?
19:46 masak s1n: (from S04) 'at compile time, ALAP, only ever runs once'
19:46 TimToady ^^ <!before '.'>
19:47 Matt-W TimToady: thanks
19:47 * masak smiles at the ^^
19:48 * TimToady smiles at $$  :)
19:48 masak 哈哈
19:49 TimToady funny that that also means pugs
19:49 Matt-W It's like I can see that underneath it all makes sense... I'm just not tuned in yet
19:50 masak is there someone here who runs a bot on feather? I'd like to ask someone who's set one up a few questions.
19:50 Matt-W oh dear now none of the tokens match
19:50 masak Matt-W: nopaste?
19:50 masak TimToady: you lost me. what also means pugs?
19:51 TimToady
19:51 masak oh! I didn't know that.
19:51 TimToady 哈 哈 [ha1] /laughter/yawn/
19:51 TimToady 哈 哈 [ha3] /a Pekinese/a pug/
19:51 masak how exceedingly appropriate.
19:52 TimToady "the mouth is fitting" :)
19:52 masak aye.
19:54 masak TimToady: I'm sometimes toying with the idea of creating a database of hanzi, with focus on character components. ISTR you have already made something like this.
19:54 ovid Are there any docs on how to "fudge" tests. I appear to be failing at it, badly.
19:54 pasteling "Matt-W" at 81.101.136.8 pasted "Silly problem with rules" (48 lines, 791B) at http://sial.org/pbot/34147
19:55 TimToady masak: 54c8 09哈mouth.l fit.r
19:55 masak TimToady: nice.
19:55 masak what's the 09?
19:55 masak I think I got the rest.
19:55 TimToady 9 strokes
19:55 masak aah.
19:55 TimToady can search on that too
19:56 masak convenient.
19:56 [particle] for golfing? ;)
19:56 TimToady you'd have to ask putter about that...
19:56 * masak groans
19:58 [particle] #perl6 rejects 48-hour cease-pun request
19:58 Matt-W It wouldn't be IRC without puns
19:58 masak what's the latest word on grammar matching syntax? is the syntax at the bottom of http://sial.org/pbot/34147 ok?
19:58 TimToady it's just a method call
19:58 clintongormley joined #perl6
19:59 masak so it should be StoryGrammar.story instead?
19:59 TimToady and Grammar.parse($string) should work
19:59 masak is that specced?
19:59 [particle] ovid:  i'm looking at autovivification.t now, but will be distracted by a phone call
20:00 ovid No worries. I'm not as concerned about that feature, per se, as I am about being able to safely add tests for Perl 6.
20:00 TimToady or StoryGrammar.new($string).TOP
20:00 [particle] yes, trying to help you Get It Right.
20:00 masak TimToady: I gotta write this down somewhere.
20:00 pugs_svn r24713 | Ovid++ | Trying to make this fudgeable test work. Need to understand fudge better.
20:00 pugs_svn r24713 | Ovid++ | Mmm ... fudge.
20:01 Whiteknight joined #perl6
20:01 ovid OK, I think my housemate and I need to run off and look at pretty fireworks soon.  Happy New Year everyone!
20:01 masak ovid: and to you, sir.
20:02 Matt-W .parse($string) on a grammar doesn't seem to be implemented in rakudo atm
20:03 azawawi masak: thx
20:03 masak Matt-W: would you like to submit a TODO rakudobug about it?
20:03 Matt-W masak: I might do that
20:03 masak Matt-W++
20:04 azawawi masak: Padre + Padre::Plugin::Perl6 + p5 PPI rocks ;-)
20:11 c9s_ joined #perl6
20:11 TimToady also .parsefile($filename)
20:11 mberends Matt-W, could your =$ifh { ... } loop simplify to: $contents=slurp($input_file); ?
20:12 Matt-W umm
20:12 Matt-W perhaps
20:12 ruoso I think I'll declare EXPORT::ALL and EXPORT::DEFAULT on every package from the start, it should be easier than checking if that package is there...
20:12 Matt-W yes, yes it can
20:12 Matt-W mberends: thanks
20:13 mberends :)
20:13 Matt-W &
20:14 ruoso TimToady, I've been naming packages with the "::" in the end, like Foo::Bar::baz means looking for "Foo::" in the current scope, than looking for Bar:: inside that package, and for &baz inside the last
20:16 mberends $contents = slurp($input_file).chomp; #may be even better to suppress a superfluous final \n
20:16 ruoso that means the type and the package are stored with different names
20:17 pugs_svn r24714 | particle++ | [S19] s/bundl/cluster/g; update date/version
20:21 literal can I do something like "use lib '.'" in Perl 6?
20:22 eric2561 joined #perl6
20:27 eric2562 joined #perl6
20:34 mberends probably not yet, I looked in vain a few weeks ago
20:35 mberends PERL6LIB seems to be the only facility so far
20:55 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
21:04 masak literal: it's not implemented in Rakudo yet.
21:07 mberends masak, apart from run(), do you know of a qx{} or `backtick` facility in Rakudo?
21:08 masak mberends: nope.
21:08 mberends :(
21:08 masak I don't do shell games a lot.
21:09 masak Matt-W: did you send rakudobug a message about .parse? otherwise I'll do it now.
21:17 vixey joined #Perl6
21:17 masak mberends: why, what do you need?
21:17 masak mberends: why not create a sub that mimics the behaviour of infix:<` `>?
21:24 rindolf Did someone implement line numbers for run-time errors in Rakudo yet?
21:27 [particle] no
21:38 rindolf [particle]: I seeee.
21:41 dukeleto joined #perl6
21:46 mberends masak, I did hack something together with run() and output redirection to a temp
21:48 mberends file, but it's ugly. The application is a web server, currently using netcat for TCP.
21:49 pugs_svn r24715 | ruoso++ | [mildew] "is export" implemented, "is export(:DEFAULT)" still not implemented
21:49 ruoso the (:DEFAULT) part is parsed in a more complicated way than I expected
21:51 [particle] ruoso: what pugs dir do i need to check out to see all the mildew code?
21:52 cspencer joined #perl6
21:54 kisu joined #perl6
21:56 literal are block/loop labels unimplemented in Rakudo?
21:57 [particle] like loop: for @x -> $y { next loop unless $y > 5 }
21:57 [particle] ?
21:57 literal yeah
21:57 [particle] i don't think so
21:58 [particle] rakudo: my @x = 1,5,10; loop: for @x -> $y { next loop unless $y > 5 };
21:58 p6eval rakudo 34724: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ": for @x -"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
21:58 literal that's the same thing I got
21:58 literal statement not terminated properly
21:58 [particle] yep, it's not parsing the label
21:59 mberends nopaste?
22:00 [particle] pasteling?
22:00 [particle] use http://rafb.net iirc
22:02 azawawi 2009 here finally ;-)
22:02 * azawawi prepares world domination plans for 2009 ;-)
22:03 [particle] can't wait till christmas.
22:03 mberends masak, crude Rakudo qx{} implementation: http://rafb.net/p/em5i8592.html
22:07 Exodist joined #perl6
22:14 eric2561 joined #perl6
22:14 * eric2561 hates his ISP
22:14 eric2561 arg how did i get a 1 on my name! ;)
22:15 DemoFreak joined #perl6
22:16 mberends eric256(1), an IRC client often renames you if it thinks your nick is already online, to preserve uniqueness
22:27 eric2561 evil ;)
22:34 Ehtyar joined #perl6
22:37 hanekomu_ joined #perl6
22:38 azawawi @tell moritz_ Moose 0.64 is released. Can you install it on feather1 please?
22:38 lambdabot Consider it noted.
22:39 azawawi Not bad, Moose 0.64 on the last day of 2008
22:39 azawawi # this fixes win32 installation problem for Class::MOP
22:45 masak mberends: nice.
22:46 masak mberends: but I agree getting rid of the tempfile would be an improvement.
22:46 azawawi masak: hi
22:47 masak azawawi: greetings, earthling.
22:47 azawawi masak: 2009!
22:47 * azawawi 2009++
22:47 masak azawawi: we're still waiting for it here :)
22:48 masak ten minutes left.
22:48 azawawi it is the same ;-)
22:48 azawawi we had it 48 mins ago
22:48 masak rakudo: 2009++
22:48 p6eval rakudo 34725: OUTPUT«Unable to set lvalue on PAST::Val node␤current instr.: 'parrot;PAST;Val;lvalue' pc 556 (src/PAST/Node.pir:161)␤»
22:49 masak azawawi: I think you have to put 2009 in a scalar, and then ++ the scalar :P
22:49 azawawi lol
22:50 azawawi rakudo: year2009++;
22:50 p6eval rakudo 34725: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub year2009␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 48 (EVAL_12:36)␤»
22:50 azawawi rakudo: $year2009++;
22:50 p6eval rakudo 34725: OUTPUT«Scope not found for PAST::Var '$year2009'␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:102)␤»
22:50 azawawi rakudo: my $year = 2008; $year++;
22:50 p6eval rakudo 34725: RESULT«2008»
22:50 azawawi rakudo: my $year = 2008; ++$year;
22:50 p6eval rakudo 34725: RESULT«2009»
22:51 * azawawi reads about upcoming netbooks chipsets...
22:54 eric2562 joined #perl6
22:56 masak akh. if I had thought of it earlier, I would have made a Rakudo script that animated fireworks...
23:05 Matt-W masak: I can hear lots going off here, i don't think you need to simulate any more
23:09 eric2562 masak:  you still can i've got 8 more hours to go till 2009 ;)
23:10 azawawi # 2008 is yesterday's news here ;-)
23:13 masak eric2562: Iäll keep that in mind :)
23:18 literal eric2562: what do I do if I want to push to perl6-examples?
23:18 eric2562 hey literal
23:18 eric2562 did you fork it on git? or just download the public clone?
23:20 smtms joined #perl6
23:21 justatheory joined #perl6
23:21 eric2562 btw i've got a perl script to autoamticaly add colatborators..just need somewhere to host it...might host it on feather, but i'm not sure how to do that without making my password just a weee bit too public ;)
23:21 eric2562 but i can add you as a collabotor and then you can push directly to the repo, or you can fork it and submit a pull request
23:22 Juerd shutdown -r now "HAPPY NEW YEAR" ;)
23:24 vixey man
23:28 literal eric2562: haven't done either
23:29 eric2562 literal: then the choice is up to you, if you wanna register i'd be happy to add you as a collaborator (i.e. get you a commit bit)
23:31 eric2561 joined #perl6
23:38 armagad joined #perl6
23:41 TimToady ruoso: storing packages under "Foo::" key seems okay to me, though presumably one could also store it magically within the Foo protoobject somehow
23:45 ruoso TimToady, well, it is... Foo.WHO
23:46 TimToady presumably the long name has all the version numbers too...
23:46 ruoso [particle], pugs/v6/mildew
23:46 TimToady either that, or Foo::Bar::baz can mean different things in different scopes
23:46 ruoso that's how it's implemented in mildew now
23:47 ruoso the package name is always a local alias
23:47 TimToady sounds good
23:49 TimToady for some reason it's really easy for me to fall into P5-Think now and then... :)
23:49 ruoso ;)
23:50 ruoso the parsing of "is export(:DEFAULT)" surprised me
23:50 TimToady equiv to :export(:DEFAULT) really
23:50 ruoso the part between the parenthesis is a statement
23:50 TimToady indeed, and :DEFAULT is just a term
23:51 ruoso can it be simplified?
23:51 ruoso or at least can I treat it as if it could be simplified?
23:51 TimToady do we want to disallow :export($?FOO) is the question...
23:51 TimToady is export<foo bar> is possible
23:52 ruoso are those equivalent: "is export(:DEFAULT)" and "is export<DEFAULT>"
23:52 TimToady some value in preserving the pair "look" for consistency though
23:53 TimToady no, not semantically
23:53 TimToady would be more like is export('DEFAULT')
23:53 ruoso I see... but...
23:54 ruoso what would "is export('DEFAULT')" mean then
23:54 ruoso ?
23:55 TimToady presumably the trait still has to poke an alias into ::EXPORT::DEFAULT
23:55 TimToady but traits are active, not passive, so doesn't seem like a big problem
23:56 ruoso so, if the later parse easier, can I use it
23:56 ruoso ?
23:56 TimToady I need to glare at S11 a bit and think about it, but maybe
23:57 TimToady might need to reserve bare names for something else like aliases though
23:57 ruoso btw... this export tagsets need some clarification
23:57 TimToady doesn't everything?
23:57 ruoso heh
23:59 ruoso "is export<DEFAULT>" has a much cleaner parsing

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo