Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-01-18

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:10 mberends @tell masak re: ./perl6 versus ../../parrot perl6.pbc, RT#62376 illustrates a similar problem and can be demonstrated with r35708 on Debian x86-32. http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=62376
00:10 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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01:44 diakopter ruoso: ri invokes m0ld with the following command line parameter: ",suffix='.c',src_suffix='.ri'" (I added double quotes b/c they're immaterial on windows)
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03:09 HyP hy
03:10 HyP i search a help for code in Perl
03:11 araujo ?
03:11 HyP Problem is after log and connect , i've not view of terminal host
03:12 HyP sorry i'm frenche and my english is incorrect
03:13 araujo mm...
03:13 araujo this channel is about perl 6
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03:13 araujo you probably want help for perl 5?
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04:16 gwern no pugs channel?
04:17 _jedai_ joined #perl6
04:23 gwern well, if anyone can tell why HsJudy was removed from pugs I'd appreciate it
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11:13 pmurias diakopter: those parameters are incorrect, how did you tweak your SConstruct you may have broken it
11:16 masak std: my @a = $_ for 1,2,3
11:16 lambdabot masak: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
11:16 p6eval std 24936: OUTPUT«00:06 105m␤»
11:16 masak @messages
11:16 lambdabot mberends said 11h 6m 21s ago: re: ./perl6 versus ../../parrot perl6.pbc, RT#62376 illustrates a similar problem and can be demonstrated with r35708 on Debian x86-32. http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/
11:16 lambdabot Bug/Display.html?id=62376
11:16 masak @clear messages
11:16 lambdabot Messages cleared.
11:18 masak rakudo: my @a = $_ for 1,2,3; say @a.perl
11:18 p6eval rakudo 35710: OUTPUT«Lexical '@a' not found␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 162 (EVAL_17:73)␤»
11:19 masak it surprises me somewhat that @a is not declared in the above case. but I don't know what the spec says about such a case.
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12:44 ruoso diakopter, ping
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13:40 masak szabgab++ # C-style for loop RT ticket
13:40 lambdabot masak: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
13:40 masak @messages
13:40 lambdabot mberends said 13h 30m 18s ago: re: ./perl6 versus ../../parrot perl6.pbc, RT#62376 illustrates a similar problem and can be demonstrated with r35708 on Debian x86-32. http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/
13:40 lambdabot Bug/Display.html?id=62376
13:40 masak lambdabot: right, I got you the first time. :/
13:40 masak @clear
13:40 lambdabot Messages cleared.
13:40 jnthn masak: You and bots just don't get on, huh? :-)
13:41 masak jnthn: I think I have high expectations.
13:41 masak I want the future, now.
13:44 masak http://gist.github.com/48659
13:46 jnthn High expectations indeed...at least, purl makes them look high. ;-)
13:46 masak purl wilfully violates them.
13:46 masak that's her main flaw.
13:47 jnthn Aye, but somehow, when she's gone, she's missed.
13:48 masak right, right. she has some good traits.
13:48 * jnthn tries to get more done on his slides, but sorta wants to be coding too...
13:48 jnthn Think I figured out how I'm going to do junction auto-threading while in the shower this morning.
13:49 masak jnthn: I note that you and pmichaud still haven't really made a dent in the pile of bug tickets I left you over the holidays. ;)
13:50 jnthn Yes. ;-)
13:51 jnthn On my part, it's because I've got a good chunk of time at the moment without much distraction from anything else.
13:51 jnthn And so I'm taking advantage of it while I have it to get the Big Things in my Hague Grant underway.
13:52 masak I understand.
13:52 jnthn Also, waiting to see if my Rakudo day will be renewed.
13:52 masak renewed?
13:52 jnthn Aye, it was agreed until end of 2008.
13:52 masak oh.
13:52 jnthn They encouraged me to submit a proposal for continuing it in 2009 though, and I've done so.
13:53 jnthn So just waiting to hear on that. :-)
13:53 * masak crosses fingers
13:53 jnthn For now though, I've got my hands plenty full on the Hague Grant tasks.
13:54 masak ok, no worries.
13:54 masak I don't have any showstopping bugs right now.
13:54 jnthn OK
13:55 jnthn I do have some I want to address, plus I need to go through RT and close up any that I have fixed already.
13:55 masak just general grumpiness over arbritary segfaults. you probably saw the discussion with chromatic++ yesterday.
13:55 jnthn *nod*
13:55 jnthn They are just plain hard to track down.
13:55 jnthn And hard to re-produce too.
13:56 masak except the ones that occur every time :/
13:56 jnthn Especially on different platforms.
13:56 masak like the double free.
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13:57 jnthn That one is scary. I don't doubt that if it was an easyish or even a mediumish difficulty fix, chromatic++ wouldn't have done it by now.
13:57 jnthn erm, would have done it
13:57 jnthn When chromatic describes it as hard, I'm worried.
13:57 masak :)
13:58 jnthn If you get any that are _not_ the double free though, a backtrace is helpful.
13:59 jnthn (We have quite enough backtraces of that one in RT. :-|)
13:59 masak I only have the double free and irregular ones right now. and chromatic tells me that the irregular ones can't exist. :/
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14:00 jnthn I think the point was more that, the Parrot bug that gives rise to them shouldn't exist in the executable and not exist when running the PBC.
14:00 jnthn *but* whether the bug manifests may vary.
14:01 jnthn Which if it's GC related, is very possible.
14:01 masak I realize that. and he managed to convince me that apart from the double free, ./perl6 is not necessarily worse than parrot perl6.pbc.
14:01 masak just crashes in different places.
14:01 jnthn Right.
14:02 jnthn Because of differing memory allocation patterns.
14:02 masak which means that the consistent lack of crashes in the former since I switched is a coincidence. which I somewhat reluctantly accept.
14:02 masak s/former/latter/
14:03 jnthn That analysis is consistent with what I know too.
14:03 jnthn The trouble with the segfaults that arise out of GC issues is...
14:03 jnthn They're hard to track down without a small program.
14:04 masak is this due to the nature of Parrot or something? I've never managed to make JVM segfault.
14:04 jnthn And a small program in Perl 6 doesn't help so much. Even if you can reproduce it with running the output of --target=pir it's still pulling in perl6.pbc that does a lot of stuff.
14:04 jnthn It's a stability thing.
14:04 jnthn And maturity etc.
14:05 jnthn And I suspect also in part, complexity.
14:05 masak mm
14:06 jnthn I've hunted down GC bugs before. They are highly non-trivial. :-(
14:06 masak oh! and I've sort of decided that after the Rakudo leaving-the-nest thing, November will start targetting Rakudo and Parrot versions, not HEADs.
14:07 jnthn Last time I patched one it was 5-6 hours of analysis.
14:07 masak I got a bit fed up with three testsuite marathons in a row.
14:07 masak not anyone-in-particular's fault, of course, just a fallout of our current development model.
14:07 jnthn That's probably a sensible stratergy for November.
14:08 jnthn If you actually want to get development done on it rather than just bug hunting.
14:08 masak aye. I'm at the point where I'd like to guarantee stability.
14:08 jnthn I think the rvar branch shook a lot of things up.
14:08 jnthn It was needed, for sure.
14:08 masak I'm still not sure what November will become. but if it's to become a good wiki, it needs stability.
14:09 masak jnthn: the thing I'm the least pleased about is class-def-on-line-1.
14:09 jnthn But I don't doubt some things that accidentally and untestedly worked before it, were broken.
14:09 masak I realise that's what the spec says, but it _feels_ a bit unintuitive.
14:09 jnthn I've always been tending to write classes in blocks.
14:10 masak at least when we have like five different modules which worked before with a couple of harmless use statements before the class decl.
14:10 masak I buy the match-against-grammar deprecation thing. that was our fault in not heeding the many warnings about deprecation. :)
14:11 masak but I don't really see the harm in having use statements above 'class Foo;'
14:13 masak @tell moritz_ s/hoover/hover/ in http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/parse-tree.writeback -- otherwise, nice post.
14:13 lambdabot Consider it noted.
14:13 jnthn Not sure, what the design rationale is.
14:13 jnthn But it's been Perl 6 spec for a long while.
14:14 masak I guess I didn't interpret 'first in file' so... literally myself.
14:15 jnthn Now and then, the spec does actually really mean what it says. ;-)
14:15 masak haha
14:17 masak perl6: my @a = 1,2,3; @a >>+<<= [10,20,30]; say @a
14:17 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** Unsafe function '=' called under safe mode␤    at /tmp/Z6j8KKzUTU line 1, column 16-36␤»
14:17 p6eval ..rakudo 35717: OUTPUT«Method 'list' not found for invocant of class 'Iterator'␤current instr.: '!HYPEROP' pc 14949 (src/builtins/assign.pir:273)␤»
14:17 p6eval ..elf 24936: OUTPUT«Undefined subroutine &GLOBAL::prefix__61 called at (eval 131) line 4.␤ at ./elf_f line 3861␤»
14:17 masak both Pugs and Rakudo seem to parse that as prefix:<=>
14:17 jnthn >>+=<<
14:18 jnthn But I don't think we implemnet it yet.
14:18 masak oh. so putting the = outside is wrong? where does it say that?
14:18 jnthn I think the implementations are correct to parse that as prefix:=
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14:19 jnthn S03
14:19 jnthn @array �+=� 42;                 # add 42 to each element
14:19 lambdabot I'll crush ye barnacles!
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14:20 jnthn ...well, that was a purlesque comment from lambdabot...
14:20 masak :)
14:21 masak jnthn: that tells me that >>+=<< is right, which I can accept.
14:21 masak but where does it say that >>+<<= is wrong?
14:21 masak or, at least, NWIM?
14:22 jnthn It'd never occurred to me you'd write it that way. Hmm.
14:22 jnthn std: @a >>+<<= [10,20,30];
14:22 p6eval std 24936: OUTPUT«00:08 144m␤»
14:23 masak but that doesn't tell us if STD also sees it as prefix:<=> :)
14:23 jnthn Yeah, that's what I was thinking after I wrote it... :(
14:24 masak oh well. back to more worldly things.
14:24 jnthn I see what you're expecting it to parse as now though.
14:24 jnthn (at first I didn't...)
14:25 masak aye, and it seems to me that your suggestion is slightly different, although I haven't yet come up with an example that hightlights said difference.
14:26 jnthn They're certainly subtle, afaict.
14:28 masak hm, November p6w doesn't build at all today. investigating...
14:29 jan__ joined #perl6
14:33 * jnthn discovers a multi dispatch bug while testing his slide examples :-|
14:34 masak code++
14:34 jnthn I should write more of it...
14:36 masak I know the feeling.
14:41 masak oh! our Test.pm doesn't work, for some reason.
14:42 masak and neither does the one in languages/perl6.
14:43 * masak wonders if that's worthy of a rakudobug
14:43 jnthn :-S
14:44 * jnthn does svn up do find out what on earth is going on
14:44 masak ./perl6 -e 'use Test' is enough.
14:44 masak ...to trigger the problem.
14:44 masak No method named 'pass' to remove in class 'POST;Compiler'.
14:44 jnthn Wow.
14:44 masak jnthn: sorry to distract you from whatever you were doing.
14:45 * jnthn sees some patched Parrot core stuff
14:45 jnthn Just slide writing, but I was going to move on to hacking on Rakudo soon...
14:45 masak that's two Parrot fixes in a row affecting Rakudo in a disastrous way.
14:46 masak looking forward to that 1.0 stable API. :P
14:46 jnthn masak: Reproduced it here.
14:46 jnthn masak: Did you try a realclean?
14:46 masak I _always_ do realclean when compiling.
14:47 jnthn OK, so I probably don't need to also do it then.
14:47 masak you could, but the error wouldn't go away.
14:47 jnthn Right.
14:48 jnthn erm.
14:48 jnthn How on *earth* does POST::Compiler come into this...
14:48 jnthn perl6 -e 'multi foo() { }'
14:48 jnthn Also does it.
14:49 masak :/
14:49 jnthn Well done, somebody...
14:49 masak good thing there's not a release coming up or something. :/
14:49 * jnthn looks through what's been commited of late for suspects
14:49 jnthn ...to revert. :-|
14:49 masak jnthn++
14:50 * masak goes back to learning Chinese words
14:50 jnthn Whiteknight: ping
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14:59 ruoso hi pmurias
15:00 jnthn And the winner of the "who did the Parrot change that broke Rakudo" is...
15:00 masak (drum roll)
15:00 jnthn 35697
15:01 jnthn (by Whiteknight. I feared so, from the error. :-()
15:01 jnthn Even more fun, there are two additional patches on top of the files as of how they were in that patch.
15:01 * jnthn hates just reverting people's patches
15:01 Whiteknight jnthn: pong!
15:02 masak sounds like this might take a while.
15:02 masak Whiteknight: we were just talking about you. :)
15:02 Whiteknight yeah, I see that
15:02 jnthn Whiteknight: your get_class changes have caused epic breakage :-(
15:02 Whiteknight that get_class stuff is insufferable
15:02 jnthn Whiteknight: Your later patches succeed in making it fail in a different way though. ;-)
15:02 masak I got an angry mob of November hackers outside my window. what should I tell them?
15:03 Whiteknight tell them I'll have a fix committed in about 5 minutes
15:03 jnthn Whiteknight++ # thanks
15:03 masak they seem pleased.
15:03 jnthn (Would much rather have you fix it, than hit the undo button. :-))
15:03 Whiteknight what we need right now is all the use cases of get_class that Rakudo is relying on added to the test suite
15:03 Whiteknight because I obviously don't know them all, and this is an area that is ripe for changes/updates/improvements
15:04 jnthn *nod*
15:04 Whiteknight So if somebody can throw together some tests for that, I'll revert my recent changes of it
15:05 Whiteknight where can I go to reproduce this problem? are the failures evident in the Rakudo test suite anywhere?
15:06 Whiteknight I want to make sure my fix actually fixes it
15:06 masak Whiteknight: ./perl6 -e 'use Test'
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15:06 jnthn Whiteknight: Thing is that your patch touches get_class and stuff that it calls
15:07 jnthn It's possible the breakage is because of other things relying on the behavior elsewhere, not specifically get_class.
15:07 jnthn Though I'm kinda guessing here.
15:09 Whiteknight I'm decently certain that it's only coming through get_class, but I'll do some more research on it all
15:09 Whiteknight I think I can back out most of the changes/fixes and still leave RSA working the way it's supposed to
15:10 jnthn OK
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15:10 jnthn I'll try and have a look through the Rakudo source and the tests and see what we're doing that is untested in Parrot core.
15:11 Whiteknight thanks
15:11 jnthn (with regard to get_class)
15:11 Whiteknight yeah
15:12 Whiteknight jnthn, on an unrelated note: what term do you use to refer to the postfix if or unless syntax?
15:12 pmurias ruoso: hi
15:13 masak rakudo: class A does B {}; role B {}
15:13 p6eval rakudo 35718: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in find_method()␤current instr.: '!meta_trait' pc 17937 (src/builtins/guts.pir:559)␤»
15:13 * masak submits rakudobug
15:14 Whiteknight masak, hold off on the rakudo bug for a minute
15:14 * masak holds off for a minute
15:14 Whiteknight I've got a fix coming down the parrot-pipeline that might resolve that issue
15:14 Whiteknight thanks
15:15 masak meanwhile, what's the semantics of does-ing a role which is declared later in the file?
15:15 jnthn Whiteknight: That's a separate issue to the one you're fixing.
15:15 jnthn masak: The semantics is, it gives an error.
15:15 masak (Илья's question on p6u)
15:15 masak jnthn: ok. I'll reply that to him.
15:15 jnthn I explained this to someone else yesterday...
15:15 masak I thought it would.
15:15 ruoso pmurias, i'm  considering implementing named args
15:15 jnthn masak: But file, we need a better error.
15:16 ruoso pmurias, what do you think of implementing "use"?
15:16 masak no, I'm holding off for a minute.
15:16 jnthn In fact, we need a _compile time_ error.
15:17 pmurias ruoso: i'm planning to implement use Foo:from<perl5> now
15:17 ruoso cool
15:19 masak pmurias++
15:20 Whiteknight jnthn, okay
15:20 masak pmurias: that is the one feature that might make me a smop user.
15:21 ruoso pmurias, I'm thinking about splitting AST::* into separated files as well
15:21 ruoso what do you think?
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15:24 ruoso masak, you realize that only syntax is missing to do that? see mildew/example
15:25 pmurias ruoso: the splitting of VAST seems too have worked nicely
15:25 masak ruoso: yes, I understand. actually, what I'm really after is being able to write whole Perl 6 programs that use Perl 5 CPAN modules.
15:34 pmurias ruoso: we have to consider if we want to always create a p5 interpreter or only when it's actually needed
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15:35 ruoso pmurias, I was thinking we could pre-declare a variable...
15:36 ruoso and kinda autovivify it when someone try to use it
15:36 ruoso but while we don't support autovivification
15:36 tigreton joined #perl6
15:36 ruoso we could just initialize it always
15:37 tigreton hi
15:38 pmurias tigreton: hi
15:38 pmurias ruoso: $P5Interpreter?
15:38 ruoso yeah... maybe for now
15:39 Whiteknight okay, so maybe my fix will take more then 5 minutes, I have a lot of tests to run
15:39 pmurias $+P5Interpreter maybe
15:39 pmurias i'll fake $+foo as $foo for now
15:40 pmurias perl6: $+OUT.print("hi\n");
15:40 p6eval elf 24936: OUTPUT«Can't call method "Str" on an undefined value at ./elf_f line 649.␤ at ./elf_f line 3861␤»
15:40 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** Can't modify constant item: VUndef␤    at /tmp/KzAU8pkTN6 line 1, column 1-20␤       /tmp/KzAU8pkTN6 line 1, column 1-20␤»
15:40 p6eval ..rakudo 35718: OUTPUT«Scope not found for PAST::Var '$+OUT' in ␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:102)␤»
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15:41 ruoso pmurias, we don't have a dynamic prelude yet
15:41 ruoso nor dynamic lookup
15:42 ruoso and $+OUT was not yet assumed as the standard
15:43 Whiteknight masak: Can't find ./Test in @INC
15:43 ruoso although TimToady was very much inclined to make it the standard
15:44 pmurias perl6: my $foo = 2;say $+foo;
15:44 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** Can't modify constant item: VUndef␤    at /tmp/TPoVWsLEjq line 1, column 13-22␤       /tmp/TPoVWsLEjq line 1, column 13-22␤»
15:44 p6eval ..elf 24936: OUTPUT«Can't call method "Str" on an undefined value at ./elf_f line 649.␤ at ./elf_f line 3861␤»
15:44 p6eval ..rakudo 35718: OUTPUT«Scope not found for PAST::Var '$+foo' in ␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:102)␤»
15:45 |jedai| joined #perl6
15:46 ruoso hmmm...
15:46 ruoso I was surprised to realize that :foo($bar) doesn't expect directly an EXPR inside the parens
15:46 ruoso but it is a full circumfix with a semilist inside
15:47 Whiteknight Okay, I just put through a commit that should fix this issue
15:47 Whiteknight if I could get some testers  to double-check me, that would be awesome
15:47 * jnthn tests
15:48 ruoso TimToady, can the compiler simplify :foo($bar) to take directly the EXPR inside the statement inside the semilist inside the postircumfix?
15:48 ruoso or is there a different possible use to that?
15:49 ruoso pmurias, $+foo doesn't look in the current scope... only in the caller scope and onward
15:50 ruoso (backward, actually)
15:53 pmurias ruoso: Syntax.pod:1824
15:55 jnthn Whiteknight: Looks encouraging.
15:55 tigreton bye
15:55 tigreton left #perl6
15:55 ruoso pmurias, that looks like an exception
15:56 jnthn Whiteknight: Running spectest to be really sure, but think it's fixed. Thanks!
15:57 jnthn Whiteknight++
15:57 Whiteknight don't thank me, curse whoever wrote this code originally
16:00 Whiteknight okay, I'm logging off for the afternoon probably. Talk to you gentlemen later
16:01 pugs_svn r24937 | pmurias++ | [mildew]
16:01 pugs_svn r24937 | pmurias++ | use SDL::App:from<perl5> calls $P5Interpreter.eval('use SDL::App')
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16:02 pmurias ruoso: we have to figure out what to we want an use Foo::Bar:from<perl5> to export
16:03 pmurias s/to/do
16:04 masak Whiteknight++
16:05 pmurias we could run the 'use Foo::Bar' using Safe.pm and expose whatever appears in main:: afterwards
16:05 pmurias ruoso: seems sane?
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16:42 szabgab After NPW there is going to be a Perl6 hackathon I am planning to participate, others whom are interested, please put your name on
16:42 szabgab http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?oslo_perl_6_hackaton_2009
16:44 * masak is interested
16:44 masak szabgab: (that's not the way to use 'whom')
16:45 szabgab whome maybe?
16:46 masak szabgab: it's like this: 'who' and 'whom' are like 'they' and 'them'. you can tell that 'them are interested' sounds wrong. so does '...whom are interested'.
16:46 masak szabgab: 'whome' does not exist as a word in English.
16:46 masak ...AFAIK.
16:47 szabgab ah typo++,
16:47 szabgab so how would I say that ? others that are interested ?
16:48 masak 'that', or 'who', works.
16:48 szabgab oh crap, just put your name on the wiki :-)
16:48 masak I did.
16:49 masak I'm not _just_ a grammar nazi. :P
16:49 masak I also do things.
16:51 szabgab np :-)
16:52 szabgab in the end we'll have to ask TimToady about that sentence
16:52 masak not really.
16:53 masak the thing about 'whom' in English is that it's not really needed in current usage. so when it is used wrongly, it sounds grating for at least two reasons.
16:54 aindilis joined #perl6
16:58 jnthn whom is dead.
16:58 jnthn In a generations time, it should be mostly forgotten. :-)
16:59 masak thing is, I really like some sentences that has'em. :)
16:59 Khisanth replaced by a one letter equivalent? :p
17:00 masak 'to who it may concern' doesn't sound nearly as good...
17:02 brunoV joined #perl6
17:06 ruoso pmurias, hmm
17:06 ruoso I think we don't need to support export by default
17:07 ruoso we might support explicit import of symbols
17:07 ruoso like...
17:07 ruoso use CGI:from<perl5> <header h1>;
17:07 ruoso would import the symbols header and h1
17:10 pmurias export by default will require use-ing the perl5 module at compile time
17:10 gravity joined #perl6
17:11 pmurias ruoso: the thing i have most doubts about when should ::CGI be exported
17:11 ruoso what do you mean?
17:12 pmurias we need a protoobject for CGI.new to work
17:12 ruoso ah... I see..
17:12 ruoso yes, we need a P5Package object
17:13 ruoso that we register as 'CGI::', 'CGI' and '&CGI := { CGI }'
17:13 ruoso and CGI.new is the same as CGI::.new in P5
17:13 pmurias why do we register &CGI?
17:14 ruoso because CGI.new is parsed as CGI().new()
17:15 |jedai| joined #perl6
17:16 diakopter ruoso: I'm here now
17:16 diakopter pmurias: same
17:16 pmurias diakopter: hi
17:16 ruoso diakopter, hi
17:16 diakopter how should those parameters look
17:17 pmurias none at all
17:17 diakopter hm, ok
17:17 pmurias m0ld_exe doesn't receive parameters
17:17 pmurias ruoso: only because is_type is not filled in correctly in STD
17:18 pmurias diakopter: did you change SConstruct?
17:19 diakopter yeah, I had to, some
17:19 diakopter I don't have 'cat'
17:19 diakopter but anyway, it's stuck at the same spot now.
17:20 meppl good night
17:21 pmurias diakopter: what you could do is to commit your changes and i'll see if it works correctly on linux
17:23 diakopter after line 154 of control_exception_return.c is emitted, sm0p.exe is hanging/pausing
17:23 diakopter http://perl6.pastebin.com/f3a71b9b4
17:23 buubot diakopter: The paste f3a71b9b4 has been copied to http://erxz.com/pb/14915
17:24 mtnviewmark joined #perl6
17:25 pmurias diakopter: .ri files are emitted by tools/ri not sm0p.pl
17:25 mtnviewmark std: $foo.~^
17:25 p6eval std 24937: OUTPUT«############# PARSE FAILED #############␤Syntax error at /tmp/cWFHYolBOG line 1:␤------> [32m$foo.[31m~^[0m␤    expecting postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤00:05 86m␤»
17:25 diakopter pmurias: I don't see how that applies to my situation
17:26 mtnviewmark std: $foo.:~^
17:26 p6eval std 24937: OUTPUT«############# PARSE FAILED #############␤Obsolete use of . to concatenate strings; in Perl 6 please use ~ instead at /tmp/jhTO9QQTHC line 1:␤------> [32m$foo.:[31m~^[0m␤    expecting dotty method or postfix␤00:05 86m␤»
17:26 mtnviewmark aha!
17:27 pmurias diakopter: the should be no such thing as sm0p.exe
17:27 ruoso pmurias, is_type isn't looked for in CGI.new
17:27 mtnviewmark so .:<prefix> doesn't work as per Syn03...
17:27 diakopter pmurias: what should the sm0p executable be named?
17:27 pmurias diakopter: is the paste smop related
17:27 ruoso pmurias, it is looked in places like "does Foo" or "is Foo"
17:27 masak mtnviewmark: hello. what doesn't work as per Syn03, you say?
17:28 pmurias diakopter: what do you mean by the sm0p executable
17:28 diakopter pmurias: yes, it's one of the 3 threads in sm0p.exe while it's "hung", the most active one
17:28 mtnviewmark hello masak
17:28 mtnviewmark Syn03 says .:<postfixop> is a method call op
17:28 diakopter pmurias: the one that's built by Setup.exe
17:28 mtnviewmark but, on my reading of STD.pm it wasn't so I checked here
17:28 mtnviewmark and, it isn't
17:28 ruoso diakopter, that's m0ld.exe
17:28 pmurias m0ld_exe.exe
17:28 diakopter oh, ok
17:28 masak mtnviewmark: that might have been deprecated.
17:29 diakopter I must have mistyped sm0p somewhere then
17:29 ruoso diakopter, there is also sm0p.pl
17:29 masak mtnviewmark: ISTR that filetest adverbs :x got desugared to .:x before, but .x now.
17:29 mtnviewmark okay - I'll write up my findings on methodcall operators - as STD is a bit far from Syn03...
17:29 diakopter sorry, I meant m0ld.exe is hanging
17:30 ruoso diakopter, it's probably waiting for input
17:30 ruoso are you sure it is receiving the data via stdin?
17:30 mtnviewmark but AFAICT there is no dotted from of prefix operators anymore
17:30 pmurias diakopter: could you paste your SConstruct
17:30 pmurias ?
17:30 diakopter ruoso: it did indeed output 154 lines of control_exception_return.c
17:31 masak mtnviewmark: prefix operators?
17:31 mtnviewmark masak - do you know what .^!method and !method are?  the later is named privop in STD
17:31 mtnviewmark masak - right there is a dotted from of postfix operators:   .++ and .i for example
17:31 masak mtnviewmark: aye, they are calls/references to private things in classes.
17:32 mtnviewmark (wonders how .i is parsed.. operator? or method name?)
17:32 ruoso diakopter, right... maybe tools/ri is trying to talk to m0ld_exe but it's not being able to send the input data
17:32 mtnviewmark std:  $p!seekret(42)
17:32 masak mtnviewmark: TimToady++ decided the other day to always treat .i as a method.
17:32 p6eval std 24937: OUTPUT«00:05 86m␤»
17:32 jnthn mtnviewmark: .i I think with latest tweaks is...what masak said. :-)
17:32 masak :)
17:32 mtnviewmark what?  not as an operator?    so 3 + 4i is gone?  now 3 + 4.i
17:33 jnthn No
17:33 masak mtnviewmark: no 4i is still there.
17:33 jnthn 3 + 4i will work
17:33 jnthn 3 + 4.i wouldn't
17:33 mtnviewmark well, in that case i is an operator --
17:33 masak sure.
17:34 mtnviewmark ah - just .i was the adjudicated result... got it
17:34 masak it just doesn't have a .i form.
17:34 ruoso diakopter, can you try to debug tools/ri ?
17:34 mtnviewmark so -  what is .:method if no longer the dotted form of prefix opeerators?
17:34 diakopter ruoso: http://perl6.pastebin.com/f2a0d8da0
17:34 buubot diakopter: The paste f2a0d8da0 has been copied to http://erxz.com/pb/14916
17:35 diakopter ruoso: yes, give me a few minutes
17:36 masak mtnviewmark: I have no idea. I hardly understand the question. :/
17:36 ruoso diakopter, I don't understand windows command expansion...
17:36 ruoso but the way tools/ri is called seems wrong to me
17:36 diakopter how does it seem wrong? all I changed was how the $SOURCE is fed
17:36 kst``` joined #perl6
17:36 * mtnviewmark doesn't think that windows command expansion is deterministic! :-)
17:37 mtnviewmark okay - well, i've got to go now - I'll send my methodcall findings out later today!
17:37 mtnviewmark caio!
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17:43 diakopter ruoso: screenshot of process explorer for the process tree.  http://imagebin.ca/view/0Ozu8GM.html
17:45 diakopter ruoso, believe it or not, cmd.exe does handle the nested double-quotes correctly, afaict/afaik.
17:46 * diakopter installs ActiveState's interactive gui debugger
17:47 masak ok, I'm withdrawing for the evening to concentrate on too many Chinese characters for tomorrow. see y'all.
17:52 diakopter ruoso: any thoughts?
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18:14 diakopter ruoso: okay, I'm now stepping through tools/ri
18:15 ruoso check if it is calling m0ld correctly
18:15 diakopter how will I be able to tell?
18:16 ruoso what are the parameters send to open3
18:16 ruoso ?
18:16 ruoso s/send/sent/
18:18 ruoso does Open3 works as expected in Windows?
18:18 moritz_ joined #perl6
18:19 moritz_ re
18:19 lambdabot moritz_: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
18:21 diakopter ruoso: @_[3] in open3() is "m0ld.exe"; that's the only parameter that stringifies to anything other than ""
18:22 ruoso diakopter, so after that step, does it write to m0ld?
18:23 ruoso where does it hang?
18:23 diakopter I'm not sure I can trace the fh with this debugger...
18:24 ruoso ok... go step by step, and tell me where it hang?
18:25 diakopter during the exec @cmd in Open3.pm
18:26 diakopter I'm pretty confident IPC::Open3 has been specifically tweaked to work well in this Strawberry Perl
18:27 |jedai| joined #perl6
18:27 diakopter but yeah it's starting to seem as if it's not sending input to m0ld.exe
18:27 ruoso try open2 instead
18:28 DemoPhreak joined #perl6
18:28 ruoso (does win32 have a stderr?)
18:28 diakopter heh; the graphical debugger didn't appreciate me killing the whole process tree
18:28 diakopter yes
18:34 diakopter ruoso: switching it to use open2() helped
18:34 diakopter it seems to have finished writing to control_exception_return.c
18:34 ruoso cool
18:35 pugs_svn r24938 | ruoso++ | [mildew] starting the support for named parameters. support for colonpair and fatarrow. added nibbler vast type... only the signature handling is missing;
18:35 ruoso diakopter, I think you can commit the version using open2
18:35 ruoso there shouldn't be much harm
18:35 diakopter ruoso: ok
18:36 diakopter ruoso: but, see this paste
18:37 diakopter http://erxz.com/pb/14921
18:38 ruoso diakopter, is the control_exception_return compleete?
18:38 diakopter ruoso: well, there aren't any incomplete blocks at the end :) I don't know what the last block should be, though
18:38 ruoso diakopter, for some reason scons seems to think your compiler is named 'cl'
18:39 ruoso diakopter, is there something that looks like the output from m0ld?
18:39 diakopter what does the output of m0ld look like?
18:39 ruoso a function call with a lot of numbers as arguments
18:39 ruoso numbers and C symbols, that is
18:40 [particle] joined #perl6
18:40 diakopter in the .c file? no.
18:41 diakopter also, m0ld.exe is still running (twice), orphaned
18:41 ruoso hmm... ok... so it looks like it didn't work as expected
18:41 ruoso the warnings were pointing in that direction
18:41 pugs_svn r24939 | moritz++ | [t/spec]
18:41 pugs_svn r24939 | moritz++ |  * wrote tests for multis with multiple signatures
18:41 pugs_svn r24939 | moritz++ |  * corrected redo.t
18:41 pugs_svn r24939 | moritz++ |  * some unfudges
18:41 pugs_svn r24939 | moritz++ |  * fixed slurpy-params-2.t to use [+] @a instead of @a.sum
18:41 ruoso diakopter, it sure has to do with IPC in windows
18:42 diakopter yeah
18:42 * ruoso need to go for a while...
18:42 * ruoso later &
18:43 |jedai| joined #perl6
18:43 pugs_svn r24940 | moritz++ | [t/spec] unfudge subref.t for rakudo
18:45 diakopter pmurias: what do you think about me trying to make tools/ri read and write to files based on filename parameters and not STDIN,STDOUT
18:45 diakopter I mean as an attempted solution, not necessarily a permanent change
18:49 ruoso diakopter, feel free to try it
18:52 Psyche^ joined #perl6
19:12 pugs_svn r24941 | ruoso++ | [mildew] named parameters working!!!! YAY!!!
19:13 ZuLuuuuuu joined #perl6
19:13 pugs_svn r24942 | ruoso++ | [smop/src-s1p] remove uncessary parens
19:14 ruoso and that means Multi.pm can be compiled!
19:17 pugs_svn r24943 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fudge submethods.t to be runnable (but doesn't pass yet)
19:17 ruoso we now need the mildew so loader
19:18 jnthn moritz_: Is that, none of it passes?
19:18 jnthn I think I looked at that and it was the lexicals outside classes issue getting in the way as much as anything...
19:19 moritz_ jnthn: that's right
19:19 * jnthn added submethods just the other day
19:20 jnthn Then looked to add that test file and realized we couldn't...and I think that was about the last thing I did on Rakudo. :-)
19:20 ruoso mildew: sub foo(:$named) { $OUT.print($named.FETCH)}; foo(:named<Hello from Mildew>);
19:20 p6eval mildew: OUTPUT«Can't locate object method "emit" via package "AST::Pair" at src/AST.pm line 255.␤»
19:20 ruoso hmm... outdated eval
19:22 kst```` joined #perl6
19:22 ruoso pmurias, I think I'll create another directory in smop to host prelude that is already compilable, and make smop load that prelude from start
19:32 pugs_svn r24944 | moritz++ | [t/spec] unfudge passing test in basic-types.t for rakudo
19:33 pugs_svn r24945 | moritz++ | [t/spec] more unfudges
19:34 pugs_svn r24946 | moritz++ | [t/spec] another unfudge
19:35 s1n joined #perl6
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19:37 ruoso mildew: sub foo {$OUT.print("gone")}; sub bar(|$capture) { &foo.postcircumfix:<( )>((|$capture),:cc(&?ROUTINE.back)); $OUT.print("won't print") }; bar(); $OUT.print("mad");
19:38 p6eval mildew: RESULT«Use of uninitialized value in hash element at ../../src/perl6/Cursor.pm line 819.␤Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at ../../src/perl6/Cursor.pm line 881.␤Can't call method "emit_m0ld" on an undefined value at src/VAST/noun.pm line 34.␤»
19:40 ruoso hmpf... still outdated
19:40 moritz_ do I need to do anything else than building smop?
19:41 moritz_ (which I just did)
19:41 cannedfish joined #perl6
19:42 ruoso moritz_, I think you need to rebuild std, and cleanup lex/
19:44 moritz_ ruoso: try again please
19:44 ruoso sub foo { $OUT.print("gone\n") }; sub bar(|$capture) { &foo.postcircumfix:<( )>((|$capture),:cc(&?ROUTINE.back)); $OUT.print("won't print\n"); }; bar(); $OUT.print("mad\n");
19:45 ruoso mildew: sub foo { $OUT.print("gone\n") }; sub bar(|$capture) { &foo.postcircumfix:<( )>((|$capture),:cc(&?ROUTINE.back)); $OUT.print("won't print\n"); }; bar(); $OUT.print("mad\n");
19:46 p6eval mildew: RESULT«(null pattern for prefix_circumfix_meta_operator:*) at ../../src/perl6/Cursor.pm line 464.␤Can't call method "emit_m0ld" on an undefined value at src/VAST/noun.pm line 34.␤»
19:46 moritz_ sh: line 1: 10544 File size limit exceededperl mildew /tmp/hLS5dzUjs9 >> /tmp/yLLJCp6LkD 2>&1
19:46 moritz_ ruoso: I can increase that limit - how much space do you need?
19:47 cannedfish left #perl6
19:47 ruoso the question is how mucg std needs
19:48 [particle]1 joined #perl6
19:48 moritz_ I don't think STD.pm writes so much into one file
19:48 pugs_svn r24947 | moritz++ | [evalbot] increase max file size limit
19:49 p6eval joined #perl6
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19:52 pmurias ruoso: the mildew so loader works
19:52 moritz_ mildew: sub foo { $OUT.print("gone\n") }; sub bar(|$capture) {  &foo.postcircumfix:<( )>((|$capture),:cc(&?ROUTINE.back));  $OUT.print("won't print\n"); }; bar(); $OUT.print("mad\n");
19:52 p6eval mildew: OUTPUT«gone␤mad␤»
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20:30 rakudo_svn r35722 | moritz++ | [rakudo] add four files and a bit more documentation to t/spectest.data
20:38 ruoso moritz_++
20:38 ruoso and now you saw mildew call/cc
20:40 ruoso mildew: sub foo(:$named) { $OUT.print($named.FETCH)}; foo(:named<Hello from Mildew>);
20:40 p6eval mildew: OUTPUT«Can't locate object method "emit" via package "AST::Pair" at src/AST.pm line 255.␤»
20:40 ruoso interesting...
20:41 [particle] joined #perl6
20:42 ruoso hmm... that means I didn't implement the compiler hack for named argument in routine call...
20:42 |jedai| joined #perl6
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20:55 pugs_svn r24948 | moritz++ | [t/spec] correct a test in code.t, and add another one for RT #62432
20:59 HyP left #perl6
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21:16 pugs_svn r24949 | ruoso++ | [mildew] implement the named args compiler hack in VAST::term;
21:18 s1n joined #perl6
21:20 rakudo_svn r35724 | moritz++ | [rakudo] correct file name in spectest.data
21:22 ejs1 joined #perl6
21:38 pugs_svn r24950 | moritz++ | [t/spec] regression tests for RT #62006
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21:51 shinobi-cl joined #perl6
21:51 shinobi-cl hello every1!
21:52 moritz_ good localtime
21:52 shinobi-cl can i have your attention for a little?
21:52 shinobi-cl i just started a perl6 wiki
21:52 shinobi-cl on perl6 dot wikia dot com
21:52 shinobi-cl i just have one article by now :( and it sucks hehe
21:53 shinobi-cl you are all welcome to contribute !
21:53 moritz_ shinobi-cl: why another wiki? we already have a few
21:54 moritz_ most prominently http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6 which links to most others
21:55 shinobi-cl thhat wiki is sooo incomplete
21:55 moritz_ right
21:55 jnthn moritz_: Fudge fail? I get
21:55 jnthn t\spec\S12-attributes\mutators.rakudo                   23    2  24-25
21:55 moritz_ shinobi-cl: so is the new one
21:56 jnthn (failed that is)
21:56 moritz_ jnthn: I'll investiage
21:56 shinobi-cl well, but it only has a few hours of life
21:56 shinobi-cl anyway, there it its:)
21:56 shinobi-cl seeya, got to make more articles
21:56 moritz_ good luck!
21:57 jnthn moritz_: Oh, I think it's test count
21:57 jnthn 1..23
21:57 moritz_ jnthn: aye
21:57 jnthn later
21:57 jnthn ok 24 - # SKIP class Proxy
21:57 jnthn ok 25 - # SKIP class Proxy
21:57 jnthn OK, cool, not so bad then. :-)
21:58 moritz_ I just counted them, there *are* 25 tests in that file
21:58 moritz_ fix committed
21:58 pugs_svn r24951 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fix plan() noticed by jnthn++
21:58 kst```` joined #perl6
21:58 moritz_ but I did find a fudge bug today
21:59 moritz_ it forgets half of the file on 'make t/spec/S06-signature/slurpy-params-2.t'
22:00 moritz_ @tell TimToady t/spec/fudge --keep-exit-code rakudo t/spec/S06-signature/slurpy-params-2.t emits an incomplete file, many tests are missing at the end
22:00 lambdabot Consider it noted.
22:20 pugs_svn r24952 | moritz++ | [t/spec] some more unfudges found by autounfudge
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22:31 pugs_svn r24953 | moritz++ | [t/spec] get rid of some passing TODO tests by skipping them until we get
22:31 pugs_svn r24953 | moritz++ | clarification from p6l
22:31 DemoFreak joined #perl6
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22:36 shinobi-cl just some advertising...New perl6 wiki, on http://perl6.wikia.com .....Please contribute with guides and how-to s!!!!! thanks!
22:37 shinobi-cl left #perl6
22:38 _jedai_ joined #perl6
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22:51 moritz_ rakudo now passes 6352 spec tests
22:58 jnthn moritz_++ # nice!
23:32 ilbot2 joined #perl6
23:32 Topic for #perl6is now http://pugscode.org/ http://planetsix.perl.org/ | nopaste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | evalbot: perl6: say 3; (or rakudo:, pugs:, elf:, etc) | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ | ~340 days 'til Xmas
23:34 froele anyone familiar with this?
23:47 _jedai_ joined #perl6
23:47 froele anyone designed MUDs here?
23:47 froele perhaps a Multi-threaded MUD codebase in perl
23:48 diakopter @tell scrottie froele asked about MUDs
23:48 lambdabot Consider it noted.
23:49 froele diakopter: who is scrottie?
23:50 diakopter froele: google him?
23:54 kst```` joined #perl6
23:54 froele yeah done
23:54 froele but anyone in here who will give me some direction on  this
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