| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
|
TimToady |
std: [R!===] 1,2 |
| 00:00 |
|
p6eval |
std 25114: OUTPUT«can't create lex/STD/prefix_circumfix_meta_operator__S_081reduce_03.store: Permission denied at Cursor.pm line 53400:02 33m» |
| 00:01 |
|
|
aindilis joined #perl6 |
| 00:02 |
|
|
dalek joined #perl6 |
| 00:12 |
|
|
shinobi-cl joined #perl6 |
| 00:13 |
|
s1n |
pmichaud: decide on a vcs yet? |
| 00:20 |
|
pugs_svn |
r25115 | lwall++ | [STD] more infix whackage to fix non-HASH error, simplify some of the cases |
| 00:22 |
|
TimToady |
std: [R!===] 1,2 |
| 00:22 |
|
p6eval |
std 25114: OUTPUT«00:02 35m» |
| 00:22 |
|
TimToady |
std: $a X+ $b |
| 00:23 |
|
p6eval |
std 25114: OUTPUT«Not a HASH reference at STD.pm line 12278.00:02 33m» |
| 00:23 |
|
TimToady |
well, gotta wait again... |
| 00:25 |
|
* [particle] |
*yawns* |
| 00:25 |
|
[particle] |
(with squeaky-clean teeth) |
| 00:37 |
|
shinobi-cl |
the perl6 wiki at wikia.com now has 47 articles! Some good, some not so good :) All worth a look |
| 00:37 |
|
pugs_svn |
r25116 | lwall++ | [STD] prev patch was malformed... |
| 00:40 |
|
|
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| 00:41 |
|
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shinobi-cl joined #perl6 |
| 00:45 |
|
TimToady |
std: $a X+ $b |
| 00:45 |
|
p6eval |
std 25116: OUTPUT«00:02 33m» |
| 00:45 |
|
TimToady |
std: $a X>>+<< $b |
| 00:46 |
|
p6eval |
std 25116: OUTPUT«############# PARSE FAILED #############Can't understand next input--giving up at /tmp/oqJjcUHUGW line 1:------> $a X>>+<< $b expecting any of: infix infix or meta-infix infix stopper standard stopper terminator00:02 33m» |
| 00:46 |
|
TimToady |
wait again...sigh |
| 00:47 |
|
mtnviewmark |
by the by --- I got STD.pm to all work on Macintosh... if that is why you're executing here |
| 00:47 |
|
diakopter |
s1n: yeah... see http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo |
| 00:48 |
|
diakopter |
moritz_: how to update p6eval to rebuild rakudo from git? |
| 00:49 |
|
diakopter |
(not to mention parrot from the new subversion) |
| 00:50 |
|
|
pumpkin joined #perl6 |
| 00:51 |
|
|
pumpkin left #perl6 |
| 00:57 |
|
TimToady |
std: $a X>>+<< $b |
| 00:57 |
|
p6eval |
std 25116: OUTPUT«00:02 33m» |
| 00:58 |
|
TimToady |
std: $a X«[+]»X $b |
| 00:58 |
|
p6eval |
std 25116: OUTPUT«00:02 33m» |
| 00:59 |
|
TimToady |
std: $a RX«[XR/]»= $b |
| 01:00 |
|
p6eval |
std 25116: OUTPUT«00:02 34m» |
| 01:01 |
|
diakopter |
TimToady: /me asks to ask about try5... what is it? |
| 01:04 |
|
TimToady |
something ancient to run STD--dunno if it even still works |
| 01:04 |
|
diakopter |
ohh... ok. |
| 01:04 |
|
TimToady |
I just use tryfile or viv mostly these days |
| 01:05 |
|
diakopter |
is there a way to feed the parser only a bit of input at a time from another prog? |
| 01:06 |
|
diakopter |
that is, can the parser digest a 'partial' bit of syntax? |
| 01:06 |
|
diakopter |
and return the tree |
| 01:06 |
|
diakopter |
(created thus far) |
| 01:07 |
|
diakopter |
(esp. if the parser is still inside some node(s)) |
| 01:07 |
|
|
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| 01:10 |
|
frew |
can anyone tell my why this perl5 is wrong: perl -E "$frew //= 'frew'" |
| 01:10 |
|
frew |
I've never been able to get //= to work |
| 01:10 |
|
frew |
(note: this is 5.10) |
| 01:13 |
|
diakopter |
frew: works for me? |
| 01:14 |
|
frew |
weird |
| 01:14 |
|
diakopter |
what's your error message? |
| 01:14 |
|
frew |
I get: can't modify pattern match (m//) in scalar assignment at -e line 1 |
| 01:14 |
|
frew |
but I am typing perl -E |
| 01:14 |
|
diakopter |
what about perl -v |
| 01:14 |
|
|
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| 01:14 |
|
|
km2 joined #perl6 |
| 01:14 |
|
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Casan joined #perl6 |
| 01:14 |
|
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jan_ joined #perl6 |
| 01:14 |
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| 01:15 |
|
frew |
v5.10.0 |
| 01:15 |
|
diakopter |
frew: which shell/OS |
| 01:15 |
|
TimToady |
you can call the .parse method, but that doesn't let you continue a compilation unit |
| 01:15 |
|
TimToady |
frew: probably the shell is interpolating $frew |
| 01:15 |
|
frew |
zsh |
| 01:15 |
|
frew |
mmm |
| 01:15 |
|
frew |
good call |
| 01:15 |
|
frew |
ubuntu |
| 01:15 |
|
diakopter |
frew: works for me (on windows/cmd.exe!) |
| 01:15 |
|
frew |
backslashing the $ gives no errors |
| 01:15 |
|
[particle]1 |
or using single quotes |
| 01:16 |
|
frew |
yep |
| 01:16 |
|
frew |
thanks friends! |
| 01:17 |
|
diakopter |
TimToady: any suggestions for creating callbacks/hooks? |
| 01:17 |
|
TimToady |
viv demonstrates one way to get callbacks at reduction points |
| 01:17 |
|
diakopter |
or, setting 'breakpoints' or something |
| 01:24 |
|
|
SamB joined #perl6 |
| 01:29 |
|
TimToady |
all right, finally back to 100% passing for make testt |
| 01:29 |
|
|
[particle] joined #perl6 |
| 01:29 |
|
TimToady |
feel free to break STD :) |
| 01:30 |
|
TimToady |
you'll note, btw, that it uses considerably less memory now |
| 01:30 |
|
diakopter |
TimToady: if you're available/willing/eager, a walkthrough of viv? |
| 01:30 |
|
diakopter |
or just more POD? |
| 01:30 |
|
diakopter |
or comments? |
| 01:30 |
|
diakopter |
:) |
| 01:32 |
|
TimToady |
well, have to leave for an airplane shortly, but basically $::ACTIONS tells what package to call methods in, and the AUTOLOAD is what gets the callback. you can ignore everything else, more or less |
| 01:32 |
|
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| 01:33 |
|
TimToady |
just cp tryfile, set $::ACTIONS, and you'll get callbacks |
| 01:33 |
|
TimToady |
what you do with 'em is up to you |
| 01:33 |
|
diakopter |
TimToady: thanks :) safe travels |
| 01:34 |
|
|
nipotan joined #perl6 |
| 01:34 |
|
TimToady |
or use viv as a base, to get something more like AST |
| 01:35 |
|
TimToady |
with nodes blessed by type |
| 01:35 |
|
diakopter |
whither reduction points? |
| 01:36 |
|
TimToady |
end of any rule, implicitly, plus any explicit {*} point |
| 01:36 |
|
TimToady |
grep for REDUCE in any of the pmc files to see the mechanism |
| 01:37 |
|
diakopter |
so when the parser reaches a {*} it assumes its current hypothesis parse is correct..? |
| 01:37 |
|
TimToady |
it doesn't really assume anything much yet |
| 01:38 |
|
TimToady |
if your reduction actions have side effects outside the match tree, then you could have problems if it backtracks |
| 01:38 |
|
pugs_svn |
r25117 | frew++ | [t] added named arg tests for join |
| 01:38 |
|
TimToady |
viv pretty much keeps the AST as element '' of the current match node though |
| 01:40 |
|
* diakopter |
thinks ** |
| 01:40 |
|
frew |
the is export in a method sig is what makes a method become a function right? |
| 01:41 |
|
diakopter |
TimToady: what's next on viv's plate |
| 01:41 |
|
TimToady |
was gonna write a gimme5 replacement |
| 01:42 |
|
diakopter |
emit_p5 |
| 01:42 |
|
TimToady |
nod |
| 01:42 |
|
diakopter |
just for STD, or truly vi->v |
| 01:43 |
|
TimToady |
for anything coreish that we want for a bootstrap |
| 01:43 |
|
diakopter |
ohh |
| 01:43 |
|
TimToady |
so eventually Cursor.pm maybe |
| 01:43 |
|
TimToady |
which is why it's currently .pmc :) |
| 01:44 |
|
frew |
rakudo: my @f = 1,2,3; join(',', @f); |
| 01:44 |
|
p6eval |
rakudo 36153: RESULT«"1,2,3"» |
| 01:44 |
|
diakopter |
so, the bootstrapped will be vivi? or vivivi? ;) |
| 01:46 |
|
TimToady |
vivaldi maybe :) |
| 01:47 |
|
TimToady |
but if one of the other implementations starts running STD.pm correctly, it would be unnecessary |
| 01:50 |
|
* diakopter |
tinkers with lli(.exe) |
| 01:50 |
|
diakopter |
thinking about toying an llvm front-end |
| 01:50 |
|
frew |
Hey guys, sorry to ask again, but I don't want to miss some tests, the is export in a method sig is what makes a method become a function right? |
| 01:51 |
|
frew |
and without the "is export" I don't need to add the named arg test to the function? |
| 01:57 |
|
TimToady |
unless someone defines the function separately. the is export is merely a way to alias a function sig to a method body |
| 01:58 |
|
frew |
ok, so like, for example, join is not listed as is export, but I still need to add the named arg test to that right? |
| 02:01 |
|
TimToady |
yes |
| 02:02 |
|
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| 02:02 |
|
frew |
alright |
| 02:05 |
|
pugs_svn |
r25118 | frew++ | [t] added named arg tests for reverse |
| 02:07 |
|
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| 02:14 |
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Eevee_ joined #perl6 |
| 02:17 |
|
TimToady |
afk & |
| 02:38 |
|
s1n |
diakopter: is rakudo still in the parrot repo? i relocated and it's still there... |
| 02:43 |
|
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hercynium joined #perl6 |
| 02:54 |
|
diakopter |
s1n: I presume someone will remove 'perl6' at some point... |
| 02:54 |
|
diakopter |
but regardless, I think pmichaud renamed it 'rakudo' anyway |
| 02:56 |
|
s1n |
the configure step doesn't work since pmichaud changed the language to rakudo |
| 02:56 |
|
diakopter |
which configure step |
| 02:56 |
|
s1n |
there's only 1 heh |
| 02:57 |
|
s1n |
still looks for and makes the makefile in parrot/languages/perl6 |
| 02:57 |
|
s1n |
i don't know enough about parrot build tools to know how to better sever that link |
| 02:57 |
|
diakopter |
Configure.pl ? and where did you get it |
| 02:58 |
|
s1n |
out of the rakudo github |
| 02:58 |
|
diakopter |
oh ok; just checking. |
| 02:58 |
|
s1n |
i'd have to move that checkout within the languages folder |
| 02:58 |
|
diakopter |
your rakudo github repo is in languages/ as 'rakudo', right? |
| 02:59 |
|
s1n |
it is now |
| 02:59 |
|
s1n |
it wasn't before, i was overly optimistic about the move |
| 03:00 |
|
diakopter |
s1n: ah... I would suspect it will/should remain as 'rakudo' |
| 03:02 |
|
PerlJam |
eventually rakudo's configure script will be smart enough to find an installed parrot or download a parrot, etc. and ask the user which parrot they want to use. |
| 03:02 |
|
s1n |
PerlJam: yeah i know eventually it should be self-hoisting almost, but i'm wanting to play with it now :) |
| 03:21 |
|
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| 03:38 |
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alester joined #perl6 |
| 03:40 |
|
alester |
I do believe I'm going to try some rakudo.org updating |
| 03:46 |
|
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| 03:49 |
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| 03:56 |
|
pugs_svn |
r25119 | frew++ | [t] added named arg tests for Lists, exists, and abs |
| 04:00 |
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| 04:11 |
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| 04:26 |
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| 04:26 |
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| 04:26 |
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| 04:26 |
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| 04:28 |
|
s1n |
pmichaud: ping |
| 04:35 |
|
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| 04:39 |
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| 05:01 |
|
pugs_svn |
r25120 | s1n++ | [spec] added a test for empty enums |
| 05:07 |
|
s1n |
std: class A is also { method foo() { say "OH HAI" } }; my $t = A.new; $t.foo(); |
| 05:07 |
|
p6eval |
std 25120: OUTPUT«00:04 34m» |
| 05:45 |
|
|
dmpk2k joined #perl6 |
| 05:50 |
|
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mtnviewmark joined #perl6 |
| 05:50 |
|
mtnviewmark |
std: $a !% $b |
| 05:51 |
|
p6eval |
std 25120: OUTPUT«00:02 33m» |
| 05:51 |
|
mtnviewmark |
std: $a !* $b |
| 05:51 |
|
p6eval |
std 25120: OUTPUT«############# PARSE FAILED #############Only boolean infix operators may be negated at /tmp/6ZH6SqlSzw line 1:------> $a !* $b00:02 33m» |
| 05:51 |
|
mtnviewmark |
hmmmm..... |
| 05:51 |
|
mtnviewmark |
wonders how % got to be boolean infix! |
| 05:53 |
|
araujo |
I bet we should blame TimToady |
| 05:53 |
|
araujo |
:-P |
| 05:54 |
|
mtnviewmark |
I noticed that he updated the S03 to point out that !% was allowed |
| 05:54 |
|
mtnviewmark |
but I didn't see how it was in STD.pm |
| 05:59 |
|
mtnviewmark |
oh! |
| 05:59 |
|
mtnviewmark |
token infix:sym<%> ( --> Multiplicative) |
| 05:59 |
|
mtnviewmark |
{ <sym> <?{ $<O><returns> = 'Bool'; }> } # Allow !% operator |
| 05:59 |
|
mtnviewmark |
special cased -- but lying about the return type of % |
| 06:00 |
|
mtnviewmark |
fie- now I'm back to having to indicate which metaops can apply to which other ops... |
| 06:03 |
|
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Avada joined #perl6 |
| 06:17 |
|
mtnviewmark |
std: $a R<= $b |
| 06:17 |
|
p6eval |
std 25120: OUTPUT«00:02 33m» |
| 06:17 |
|
mtnviewmark |
std: $a R== $b |
| 06:17 |
|
p6eval |
std 25120: OUTPUT«############# PARSE FAILED #############Syntax error (two terms in a row?) at /tmp/IPvOnNSdJs line 1:------> $a R== $b expecting any of: infix or meta-infix infix stopper infix_prefix_meta_operator standard stopper statement modifier |
| 06:17 |
|
p6eval |
..loop terminator00:0... |
| 06:21 |
|
|
ashizawa joined #perl6 |
| 06:23 |
|
Tene |
So, what's the motivation for this "reverse a binary op" metaop? |
| 06:23 |
|
mtnviewmark |
so that you can pass just an operator to sort to get a sort in the other order |
| 06:24 |
|
mtnviewmark |
sort &[cmp] (3, 1, 4, 5, 9) |
| 06:24 |
|
mtnviewmark |
sort &[Rcmp] (3, 1, 4, 5, 9) |
| 06:25 |
|
mtnviewmark |
std: 'a' Rp5=> 'b' |
| 06:25 |
|
p6eval |
std 25120: OUTPUT«00:02 33m» |
| 06:25 |
|
mtnviewmark |
std: 'a' R=> 'b' |
| 06:25 |
|
p6eval |
std 25120: OUTPUT«############# PARSE FAILED #############Syntax error (two terms in a row?) at /tmp/9LRXxFCP5d line 1:------> 'a' R=> 'b' expecting any of: infix or meta-infix infix stopper infix_prefix_meta_operator standard stopper statement modifier |
| 06:25 |
|
p6eval |
..loop terminator00... |
| 06:26 |
|
mtnviewmark |
okay - that's pretty silly! |
| 06:26 |
|
mtnviewmark |
there is a restriction that R can't apply to operators that start with '=' |
| 06:26 |
|
mtnviewmark |
mind you -- R==, R=:=, R=== and such aren't really useful |
| 06:27 |
|
mtnviewmark |
std: $a R:= $b |
| 06:27 |
|
p6eval |
std 25120: OUTPUT«00:02 33m» |
| 06:27 |
|
mtnviewmark |
okay, so the restriction on = is silly |
| 06:50 |
|
mtnviewmark |
std: [&&] ($a, $b, $c) |
| 06:50 |
|
p6eval |
std 25120: OUTPUT«00:02 35m» |
| 06:50 |
|
mtnviewmark |
std: [=] ($a, $b, $c) |
| 06:50 |
|
p6eval |
std 25120: OUTPUT«00:02 35m» |
| 06:57 |
|
TimToady |
the restriction on = was not to prevent those operators from working, but to stop infix from parsing a shorter op followed by an assignop =, which it was doing for some reason. |
| 06:57 |
|
TimToady |
but it looks like the fix is buggy |
| 06:58 |
|
mtnviewmark |
oh - hello! |
| 06:58 |
|
mtnviewmark |
just about to send a bunch of thoughts |
| 06:58 |
|
mtnviewmark |
there - sent |
| 06:59 |
|
mtnviewmark |
is that also why you couldn't just defined infix:sym<!%>, rather than fudge it's return type decl |
| 06:59 |
|
mtnviewmark |
(and where *did* the idea for !% come from?) |
| 07:03 |
|
TimToady |
I just got tired of seeing $x % 3 == 0 forever and ever |
| 07:04 |
|
TimToady |
and in theory, since any value can be treated as a boolean, we can afford to relax the constraint a bit |
| 07:04 |
|
TimToady |
esp now that we don't do LTM on complete metaops |
| 07:04 |
|
mtnviewmark |
it is a little sad that !% reads as "not-mod" |
| 07:04 |
|
TimToady |
yes, but you can think of it as no-remainder |
| 07:05 |
|
mtnviewmark |
so, let's see.... $a !* $b means ($a == 0) | ($b == 0) |
| 07:05 |
|
|
DemoFreak joined #perl6 |
| 07:05 |
|
mtnviewmark |
and $a !+ $b means ($a == - $b) |
| 07:06 |
|
TimToady |
yes, well, it's not clear how much of that we want to encourage either :) |
| 07:06 |
|
mtnviewmark |
is % defined as remainder or as modulo? |
| 07:06 |
|
Avada |
modulo |
| 07:06 |
|
mtnviewmark |
perl: say -1 % 5 |
| 07:07 |
|
TimToady |
but rather than marking operators with "returns Bool" and such, I think we can mark them for whether they respond to a given metaop, like :assign |
| 07:07 |
|
TimToady |
so those ops would be :not or some such |
| 07:07 |
|
mtnviewmark |
:assign :negate :reduce |
| 07:07 |
|
TimToady |
negate has a problem |
| 07:07 |
|
mtnviewmark |
:assignable :negatable :reducable |
| 07:07 |
|
TimToady |
still a problem, since -$x is a negation too |
| 07:08 |
|
mtnviewmark |
perl6: say -1 % 5 |
| 07:08 |
|
p6eval |
pugs, rakudo 36153: OUTPUT«4» |
| 07:08 |
|
p6eval |
..elf 25120: OUTPUT«Undefined subroutine &GLOBAL::infix__37 called at (eval 120) line 3. at ./elf_h line 4333» |
| 07:09 |
|
mtnviewmark |
oh - did the perl5 bot notice that pugs and rakudo gave the same output and coalesced them? |
| 07:09 |
|
TimToady |
*nod* |
| 07:09 |
|
mtnviewmark |
cool! |
| 07:10 |
|
TimToady |
well, sometimes I wish it would just line them all up better though, but this is fewer irc lines anyway |
| 07:10 |
|
|
meppl joined #perl6 |
| 07:10 |
|
mtnviewmark |
but we are only defining the adverbs that describe the characteristics of operators --- so that -$x is a negation has nothing to do with the concept here |
| 07:11 |
|
mtnviewmark |
:assign-form :negate-form :invert-form :reduce-form |
| 07:11 |
|
pugs_svn |
r25121 | lwall++ | [S19] more comments |
| 07:12 |
|
pugs_svn |
r25122 | lwall++ | [S02] random clarifications |
| 07:12 |
|
mtnviewmark |
or :workswithmeta<assign invert reduce> |
| 07:12 |
|
mtnviewmark |
though I suppose that could be just |
| 07:12 |
|
mtnviewmark |
:metable<asign invert reduce> |
| 07:12 |
|
TimToady |
:meta<R ! => |
| 07:13 |
|
mtnviewmark |
there ya go |
| 07:13 |
|
TimToady |
but how do you spell hyper? |
| 07:13 |
|
mtnviewmark |
well - some meta ops seem like they can always apply to EVERYTHING |
| 07:14 |
|
mtnviewmark |
since they aren't really about the op, but about how to use the op |
| 07:14 |
|
mtnviewmark |
cross and hyper seem like that |
| 07:14 |
|
mtnviewmark |
(though I don't understand how X of an assignment op could work...) |
| 07:15 |
|
TimToady |
yeah, and X= unfortunately parses the wrong way |
| 07:15 |
|
mtnviewmark |
($a, $b, $c) X[*=] (3, 5, 7) |
| 07:15 |
|
TimToady |
[X]= is potentially useful though |
| 07:15 |
|
mtnviewmark |
yes - that I understand |
| 07:16 |
|
mtnviewmark |
I'm just wondering if the above is the same as |
| 07:16 |
|
mtnviewmark |
($a, $b, $c) »* 105 |
| 07:16 |
|
TimToady |
probably |
| 07:16 |
|
mtnviewmark |
but returning some odd matrix |
| 07:18 |
|
TimToady |
well, it's definitely enough rope to shoot everyone in the room's foot |
| 07:18 |
|
mtnviewmark |
for that matter why put restrictions on R or ! at all? If you can get it through the parser, then why not? |
| 07:19 |
|
mtnviewmark |
for example, if !op means "apply the op, then interpret the result in Boolean context, and then invert" -- |
| 07:19 |
|
mtnviewmark |
let it work on everything |
| 07:20 |
|
mtnviewmark |
Rop seems similarly reasonably unencumberable (is that a word?) |
| 07:20 |
|
TimToady |
though people may get into trouble with 1,2,3 R= @foo |
| 07:20 |
|
mtnviewmark |
[cmp], does, admittedly, seem not very useful... but |
| 07:21 |
|
mtnviewmark |
not to mention $a [[*=]=]= 7 |
| 07:21 |
|
TimToady |
well, cmp isn't associative, and we currently disallow it |
| 07:21 |
|
mtnviewmark |
does [op] imply left to right order? |
| 07:22 |
|
mtnviewmark |
if so, then while odd, [cmp] would have a clear meaning |
| 07:22 |
|
TimToady |
and since $a cmp $b cmp $c would blow up, so should [cmp], seems like |
| 07:23 |
|
mtnviewmark |
hmmmm... which leads me to realize that Xff probably is actually not workable at all -- though legal at present |
| 07:23 |
|
mtnviewmark |
or... [ff] |
| 07:23 |
|
TimToady |
all the thunky ones are a bit problematic |
| 07:24 |
|
mtnviewmark |
well, okay, so if you do something like :meta<R ! => and such |
| 07:24 |
|
mtnviewmark |
then you just need to decide if you need to declare crossable and hyperable too |
| 07:24 |
|
TimToady |
maybe it'd be better to mark the ones that don't work |
| 07:25 |
|
mtnviewmark |
:nometa<=> |
| 07:25 |
|
mtnviewmark |
:nometa<!> |
| 07:25 |
|
TimToady |
on the presumed innocent principle |
| 07:25 |
|
mtnviewmark |
ah - and that would incline user defined operators to be meta'able |
| 07:26 |
|
* mtnviewmark |
has no idea how to write that in English! |
| 07:26 |
|
TimToady |
well, most would be anyway, if they equiv an existing operator prec |
| 07:26 |
|
mtnviewmark |
or the "presumed meta'able" priniciple |
| 07:26 |
|
mtnviewmark |
"presumed meatball" principle? |
| 07:27 |
|
mtnviewmark |
I like :nometa ! |
| 07:27 |
|
mtnviewmark |
the full set would be: |
| 07:27 |
|
mtnviewmark |
:nometa<= ! R X [] «»> |
| 07:28 |
|
mtnviewmark |
I suppose that isn't going to work for prefix and postfix hyper -- given how they are parsed.... |
| 07:28 |
|
TimToady |
mostly I want to be able to catch common errors and tell the user what they really meant to do... |
| 07:29 |
|
TimToady |
I'm not too worried about unary metas |
| 07:29 |
|
mtnviewmark |
no - they are just free loops! |
| 07:30 |
|
mtnviewmark |
fruitloops! |
| 07:30 |
|
TimToady |
well, they cost one character at least |
| 07:30 |
|
mtnviewmark |
okay - see - now you can see that it is late and I'm puncy.... time for bed |
| 07:30 |
|
TimToady |
I actually just arrive in Seattle... |
| 07:30 |
|
TimToady |
*arrived |
| 07:31 |
|
mtnviewmark |
I'm sorry - late flight! |
| 07:31 |
|
TimToady |
we got in 20 min early, and then parked in the taxiway for 25 :/ |
| 07:31 |
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mtnviewmark |
funny scheduler, bizarre pipeline management |
| 07:31 |
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TimToady |
well 'night |
| 07:31 |
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mtnviewmark |
night! |
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pugs_svn |
r25123 | lwall++ | [STD] remove fossil that targeted -= |
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dduncan |
what's with the NFG / Normal Form G mentioned in the latest p6l post? I don't see any mention of that in http://unicode.org/reports/tr15/ ... did you mean NFC? |
| 08:55 |
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dduncan |
is it possible for all realistic combinations of diacritics and base letters to be represented by a single Unicode codepoint, including all language-dependent graphemes? |
| 08:55 |
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dduncan |
I thought NFC sort of did one codepoint per grapheme but there were a few exceptions ... I could be wrong on that point |
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mberends |
masak: mibbit.com++ |
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| 11:38 |
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masak |
mberends: yes, I should have told you earlier. :) |
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masak |
mberends: I'm here for 10 more minutes, then I'm off to town. |
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mberends |
ah, 5 world minutes == 10 masak minutes |
| 11:45 |
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Matt-W |
well nobody was talking... |
| 11:50 |
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mberends |
I'm @work, and sneaking some #perl6 time now and then ;) masak's Druid installation instructions work well on Debian: http://github.com/masak/druid/ |
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moritz_ |
re |
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mberends |
Does anyone feel like trying some new Perl 6 code and giving your feedback? |
| 14:05 |
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| 14:11 |
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pugs_svn |
r25124 | moritz++ | [t] delete rest of p6regex, richard++ |
| 14:12 |
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moritz_ |
mberends: yes, in a few minutes (or hours) |
| 14:13 |
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| 14:17 |
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finanalyst |
moritz_: continuing discussion about t/examples/* I suggest moving them to the perl6 wiki as problems to be solved by those who want to get involved. |
| 14:18 |
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finanalyst |
Then the t/examples/ directory can be cleaned out - psychologically good to see |
| 14:19 |
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moritz_ |
finanalyst: ok, approved |
| 14:20 |
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mberends |
There is a prototype 'perldoc' etc compatible with latest Rakudo, no known bitrot. I'm eager to get feedback. See the 'Try it out' in http://github.com/eric256/perl[…]/lib/Pod/Makefile |
| 14:23 |
|
moritz_ |
I presume Rakudo hasn't moved out of the nest yet? |
| 14:24 |
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mberends |
the whole nest moved to github, with Rakudo inside ;) |
| 14:24 |
|
mberends |
afaict |
| 14:25 |
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moritz_ |
no, parrot moved to parrot.org, but stayed svn |
| 14:26 |
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moritz_ |
(at least that's what parrot.org says) |
| 14:28 |
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mberends |
is this the master or a slave? http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/master |
| 14:30 |
|
PerlJam |
moritz_: rakudo flew the coup and got a new name. |
| 14:31 |
|
PerlJam |
Well, it got the old name, but not in parrot |
| 14:31 |
|
moritz_ |
so how do I build rakudo now? check it out in languages/rakudo of the parrot source tree? |
| 14:32 |
|
PerlJam |
moritz_: yes. I don't know if it builds right off though. The last time I checked it was still in flux. |
| 14:33 |
|
PerlJam |
mberends: with git there are only peers :) |
| 14:33 |
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moritz_ |
well, but there can be a master-peer by convention ;-) |
| 14:35 |
|
PerlJam |
github is the master-peer by convention then :) |
| 14:40 |
|
mberends |
PerlJam: thanks. Is there then a git -> svn converter populating languages/perl6 at svn.parrot.org ? |
| 14:43 |
|
PerlJam |
dunno. I haven't looked at languages/perl6 since the switch. |
| 14:43 |
|
PerlJam |
(I'd doubt it though) |
| 14:59 |
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ruoso |
Hello! |
| 15:10 |
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rindolf |
Hi ruoso |
| 15:24 |
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ruoso |
hi rindolf |
| 15:24 |
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Matt-W |
hello |
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pugs_svn |
r25125 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] version 0.039 includes the fast STD lwall++ along with perl6.vim |
| 16:30 |
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| 17:24 |
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TimToady |
well, it's still not the "fast STD", but it's less slow... |
| 17:24 |
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moritz_ |
22min on my machine to parse t/spec/ |
| 17:24 |
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| 17:25 |
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[particle]1 |
what was it before, moritz? |
| 17:25 |
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moritz_ |
[particle]: half an eternity :/ |
| 17:25 |
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moritz_ |
aka "don't remember too well" |
| 17:25 |
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moritz_ |
but I guess it was around 30 or 40 minutes |
| 17:26 |
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TimToady |
26 minutes to do all of t/ |
| 17:26 |
|
TimToady |
(here) |
| 17:26 |
|
TimToady |
[particle]: checked in some more comments on S19 |
| 17:27 |
|
TimToady |
and made some conjectural emendations, see the diff |
| 17:27 |
|
[particle] |
saw them, very nice, thanks! |
| 17:32 |
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| 17:32 |
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rakudo_svn |
r36141 | fperrad++ | [codingstd] fix copyright for Makefiles |
| 17:32 |
|
rakudo_svn |
r36145 | pmichaud++ | [rakudo]: spectest-progress.csv update: 298 files, 6609 passing, 0 failing |
| 17:32 |
|
rakudo_svn |
r36149 | fperrad++ | [codingstd] fix coda of Makefiles |
| 17:33 |
|
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| 17:33 |
|
pmichaud |
I need to go review the latest STD changes now |
| 17:33 |
|
pmichaud |
well, not "now", but sometime soon. :-) |
| 17:34 |
|
* [particle] |
gets 362 failing spectests :( |
| 17:34 |
|
moritz_ |
string branch fallout? |
| 17:34 |
|
[particle] |
i wonder what broke... |
| 17:35 |
|
pmichaud |
okay, time for lunch, then to finish up the details of the repository move. |
| 17:36 |
|
TimToady |
if you make the second X in the old XopX optional, we can change the tests to Xop at some point |
| 17:36 |
|
TimToady |
or I can just go ahead and break 'em all |
| 17:37 |
|
[particle] |
break em |
| 17:37 |
|
[particle] |
it's more important imo that the tests match the spec |
| 17:38 |
|
pmichaud |
we should be able to fix the X meta pretty quickly in rakudo. |
| 17:39 |
|
TimToady |
k |
| 17:39 |
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| 17:39 |
|
[particle] |
nopaste? |
| 17:39 |
|
[particle] |
pastebot? |
| 17:39 |
|
[particle] |
feh. |
| 17:39 |
|
moritz_ |
see topic |
| 17:40 |
|
* [particle] |
wonders how to do that with pidgin... |
| 17:40 |
|
moritz_ |
type /topic ? |
| 17:40 |
|
moritz_ |
(without the question mark ;) |
| 17:40 |
|
[particle] |
for some reason, i thought that didn't work with this client, but indeed it does :) |
| 17:41 |
|
[particle] |
#perl6 isn't listed at sial :( |
| 17:41 |
|
moritz_ |
it used to be |
| 17:42 |
|
[particle] |
failing rakudo spectests: http://sial.org/pbot/34801 |
| 17:42 |
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| 17:43 |
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pmichaud |
afk, lunch, errands |
| 17:43 |
|
moritz_ |
pmichaud: could you please point rakudo's post-receive hook to http://timtowtdi.org:3333/ , then we should get IRC feeds here (no hurry though) |
| 17:45 |
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| 17:46 |
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pmichaud |
moritz_: done. |
| 17:46 |
|
moritz_ |
pmichaud: thanks |
| 17:46 |
|
moritz_ |
now we just need a push to test it ;) |
| 17:46 |
|
pmichaud |
README is a good candidate :-) |
| 17:47 |
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| 17:47 |
|
moritz_ |
I don't have commit access I believe :( |
| 17:47 |
|
pmichaud |
yes, you do. |
| 17:47 |
|
moritz_ |
ok |
| 17:47 |
|
pmichaud |
assuming your github id is "moritz" |
| 17:47 |
|
moritz_ |
it is ;) |
| 17:47 |
|
moritz_ |
(what a coincidence) |
| 17:48 |
|
pmichaud |
afk # bank, lunch, errands |
| 17:50 |
|
moritz_ |
can anybody tell me how I can push changes to github? :/ |
| 17:52 |
|
pugs_svn |
r25126 | lwall++ | [cross-metaop.t] change XopX to Xop |
| 17:52 |
|
* ruoso |
.oO( farewall $a XXX $b ) |
| 17:53 |
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pugs_svn |
r25127 | lwall++ | [STD] emit useful error on XopX |
| 17:58 |
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| 17:58 |
|
TimToady |
there's still XXX |
| 17:58 |
|
TimToady |
and XXXX and XXXXX |
| 17:59 |
|
Tene_ |
moritz_: git push |
| 17:59 |
|
TimToady |
and RXRXRX |
| 17:59 |
|
mtnviewmark |
right - but you probably want to shield your face when enter those places.... :-) |
| 17:59 |
|
TimToady |
add a few more metaops and we could have XERXES |
| 18:00 |
|
moritz_ |
Tene_: not that simple |
| 18:00 |
|
Tene_ |
moritz_: explain? |
| 18:01 |
|
moritz_ |
Tene_: seems I first have to set up some remotes |
| 18:01 |
|
Tene_ |
moritz_: if you cloned from the url that you can push back to, you shouldn't have to do anything. |
| 18:01 |
|
moritz_ |
Tene_: and where do I get that URL? |
| 18:02 |
|
TimToady |
std: $a X*X $b |
| 18:02 |
|
Tene_ |
moritz_: on the project page of the project you want to commit to |
| 18:02 |
|
p6eval |
std 25127: OUTPUT«############# PARSE FAILED #############Old form of XopX found at /tmp/TJQj2OCTxT line 1:------> $a X*X $b00:02 33m» |
| 18:02 |
|
TimToady |
std: $a XXXXXXXXXXXX $b |
| 18:03 |
|
p6eval |
std 25127: OUTPUT«00:02 33m» |
| 18:03 |
|
TimToady |
for when you're feeling very cross |
| 18:03 |
|
* mtnviewmark |
glaces at his chart that now needs fixing up |
| 18:03 |
|
moritz_ |
Tene_: that says warning: remote HEAD refers to nonexistent ref, unable to checkout" on cloning |
| 18:03 |
|
Tene_ |
eh? |
| 18:04 |
|
TimToady |
hmm, some metops distribute vertically, and some metaops distribute horizontally, chartwise |
| 18:04 |
|
Tene_ |
moritz_: I'll look at it in a bit. I'm late to get to work right now. |
| 18:05 |
|
mtnviewmark |
families are vertical, types are horizontal -- with the exception that I put prefix/postfix hyper alongside,not under the four infix hypers |
| 18:05 |
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| 18:06 |
|
TimToady |
just thinking about which ones are transparent to precedence |
| 18:06 |
|
mtnviewmark |
and they align with their forced, or most likely, precedence levels |
| 18:06 |
|
TimToady |
those are horizontal |
| 18:06 |
|
TimToady |
whereas ones that force precedence are more like normal operators |
| 18:06 |
|
mtnviewmark |
The new chart has a symbol to indicate which meta ops take in the precendence and assoc of the underlying op |
| 18:07 |
|
mtnviewmark |
but I still put R and ! above the "intended" or rather "common" uses of it |
| 18:07 |
|
mtnviewmark |
really, I would have liked to put hyper ops over the math section --- but no room |
| 18:07 |
|
mtnviewmark |
there being so many hyper ops |
| 18:07 |
|
TimToady |
maybe <[]> arrows on the box to indicate sideways mobility? |
| 18:08 |
|
TimToady |
just an idea |
| 18:08 |
|
mtnviewmark |
or "comic quotes" - that indicate an object is in motion... :-) |
| 18:09 |
|
moritz_ |
damn, that git bot doesn't work |
| 18:09 |
|
TimToady |
tail wagging lines :) |
| 18:09 |
|
mtnviewmark |
btw, I might be induced to take up the Unicode synopsis challenge.... Unicode is one of my specialities! |
| 18:11 |
|
mtnviewmark |
but.. I'm disturbed by the loose use of terms in PDD28 - in particular, NFG isn't really a normal form of Unicode - it is a method of dynamically generating new character sets (per sting!) with their own encodings.... |
| 18:11 |
|
mtnviewmark |
for example "An NFG string is a sequence of signed 32-bit Unicode codepoints." is not sensical: there are no 32-bit Unicode codepoints! |
| 18:12 |
|
TimToady |
it's normal inside :) |
| 18:12 |
|
mtnviewmark |
sure - it is a "normal form" just not of Unicode! |
| 18:12 |
|
mtnviewmark |
don't get me wrong, I find the whole construction clever and useful |
| 18:12 |
|
TimToady |
quasi-Unicode then |
| 18:12 |
|
TimToady |
we can write the p6 synopsis differently |
| 18:12 |
|
mtnviewmark |
just if I were to write it up, I'd be more rigorous about use of terms like codepoint and Unicode and encoding |
| 18:12 |
|
TimToady |
that's cool |
| 18:13 |
|
TimToady |
we invented NFG because there wasn't a standard term for it :) |
| 18:13 |
|
TimToady |
originally I imagined a per-process table, not per string |
| 18:13 |
|
mtnviewmark |
I do worry that NFG is well defined enough... there might be strings in Unicode that may be difficult to decide what to do under NFG |
| 18:14 |
|
mtnviewmark |
well - I would think that aspect would be, well, implementation dependent, yes? |
| 18:14 |
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TimToady |
well, we're not trying for language-dependent graphemes |
| 18:15 |
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mtnviewmark |
(oh, "that aspect" meant per-process vs. per-string vs. per-virtual machine, etc...) |
| 18:15 |
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TimToady |
per domain of some sort |
| 18:15 |
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TimToady |
just needs a well-defined boundary |
| 18:15 |
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TimToady |
and probably a DOS strategy |
| 18:16 |
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mtnviewmark |
(btw I spent a lot of time last Spring developing Unicode guidelines for my company. There is a huge internal doc on it, and this small, but fun, external doc: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wik[…]code_In_5_Minutes ) |
| 18:17 |
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mtnviewmark |
was NFG to be based on NFC or NFKC compositions? It isn't clear |
| 18:18 |
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| 18:19 |
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TimToady |
NFC, I think |
| 18:19 |
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TimToady |
if there's an NFC char, you always use it |
| 18:20 |
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TimToady |
s/char/codepoint |
| 18:20 |
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TimToady |
negative codepoints reserved for non-NFC mappable |
| 18:20 |
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mtnviewmark |
so, NFG wouldn't unify the Angstrom symbol with the A and small ring character |
| 18:21 |
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mtnviewmark |
makes sense - just isn't spelled out in pdd28 - it leaves it unclear |
| 18:21 |
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TimToady |
don't want to lose that kind of information |
| 18:21 |
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| 18:21 |
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mtnviewmark |
silly misclick.... |
| 18:24 |
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TimToady |
we specifically are not worried about round-tripping strings that are inconsistenly NFC/NFDish |
| 18:25 |
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TimToady |
you can always work at the codepoints level pragmatically if that's what you want |
| 18:26 |
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TimToady |
but by default we're really only concerned with preserving meaning to the user |
| 18:26 |
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mtnviewmark |
can you? If you work with a string at the grapheme level, and the revert to looking at codepoints, won't it be the case that the string will have been normalized in the process of generating the NFG form |
| 18:26 |
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TimToady |
not if you get ahold of the string before it became "no f*ing good" |
| 18:27 |
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TimToady |
code that wants to roundtrip at that level needs to control its inputs and outputs |
| 18:27 |
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mtnviewmark |
right - so conceptually, accessing a string in NFG form is mutating |
| 18:28 |
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TimToady |
depends on which definition of string you're using |
| 18:28 |
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mtnviewmark |
sure- if you want to keep the codepoint sequence in tact, DON'T access the graphemes |
| 18:28 |
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TimToady |
we can do the NFG transformation either eagerly or lazily |
| 18:28 |
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TimToady |
I think parrot chooses lazy for unicode in general |
| 18:29 |
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TimToady |
I guess the assumption is that lazy transformaion of some other character set to unicode is not supposed to be lossy, so should throw an exception |
| 18:30 |
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TimToady |
I'm more inclined to tell open to turn the input into NFG by default as soon as read in, but that's an implementation detail, at least until the exceptions start flying |
| 18:31 |
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TimToady |
the only exception NFC->NFG might throw that I can see is "I think you're trying to DOS my translation table, so forget it." |
| 18:32 |
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TimToady |
but given this is unicode we're talking about, I'm sure there will be other strange cases :) |
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