Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-02-05

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:11 BinGOs joined #perl6
00:21 BinGOs joined #perl6
01:02 wayland joined #perl6
01:03 wayland Quick question -- I see the parrot repository has moved, and I've seen noises (excuse mixed metaphor) about putting perl6 in a separate repo.  Has this happened?
01:03 alc joined #perl6
01:03 wayland Or do I still use the old Parrot repo?
01:03 wayland (sorry, I should say "rakudo", not perl6)
01:12 PZt joined #perl6
01:14 [particle] wayland: parrot and rakudo are now in separate repositories. there will be an announcement within 24 hours with  the rakudo details, according to pmichaud
01:14 [particle] rakudo is available at http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git
01:15 wayland ok, all happy!  Thanks muchly
01:15 [particle] currently, it must be checked out to languages/rakudo under a parrot checkout, or parrot must be checked out under parrot/ of a rakudo checkout
01:21 hercynium joined #perl6
01:23 jhuni joined #perl6
01:27 s1n pmichaud: ping
01:28 silug joined #perl6
01:34 pugs_svn r25195 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] highlight Xop/Rop metaoperators
01:45 pugs_svn r25196 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] some Pod formatting code fixes
01:50 pugs_svn r25197 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] highlight the exclamation mark in negated Pod config options
01:56 pugs_svn r25198 | particle++ | [S19] adding --extract-from-text, -x; similar behavior to perl 5, but file may now contain unicode text
01:59 pugs_svn r25199 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] update TODO list
02:10 s1n pmichaud: i have a ticket i want to work on, but i need some experienced help finding things and figuring out what everything does
02:14 pugs_svn r25200 | particle++ | [S19] --autoloop-split, -a: assigns result to @_; signature and option name fixups
02:18 TheOrz joined #perl6
02:19 SamB joined #perl6
02:20 szabgab joined #perl6
02:32 shinobi-cl joined #perl6
02:32 pugs_svn r25201 | particle++ | [S19] shortened ++DEBUGGER to ++BUG, which seems a better mnemonic then ++DEB.
02:33 shinobi-cl rakudo: my @array=1,2,3; my %hash; %hash{"shipoopi"} = @array; say %hash{"shipoopi"};
02:33 p6eval rakudo 36369: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
02:34 shinobi-cl rakudo: my %hash; %hash{"shipoopi"}; push %hash{"a"}, 1; push %hash{"a"}, 2; push %hash{"a"}, 3; say %hash{"a};
02:34 p6eval rakudo 36369: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "{\"a};"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
02:34 shinobi-cl rakudo: my %hash; push %hash{"a"}, 1; push %hash{"a"}, 2; push %hash{"a"}, 3; say %hash{"a};
02:34 p6eval rakudo 36369: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "{\"a};"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
02:35 shinobi-cl rakudo: my %hash; push %hash{"a"}, 1; push %hash{"a"}, 2; push %hash{"a"}, 3; say %hash{"a"};
02:35 p6eval rakudo 36369: OUTPUT«No applicable methods.␤␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 90 (EVAL_16:46)␤»
02:36 shinobi-cl pugs: my %hash; push %hash{"a"}, 1; push %hash{"a"}, 2; push %hash{"a"}, 3; say %hash{"a"};
02:36 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
02:37 shinobi-cl pugs: my %hash; push %hash{"a"}, 1; push %hash{"a"}, 2; push %hash{"a"}, 3; say %hash{"a"}.elems;
02:37 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«3␤»
02:37 shinobi-cl nice :)
02:38 eternaleye joined #perl6
02:39 shinobi-cl pugs: my %hash; push %hash{"a"}, 1; push %hash{"a"}, 2; push %hash{"a"}, 3; push %hash{"1"}, 'a'; push %hash{"1"}, 'b'; push %hash{"1"}, 'c'; my @z = %hash{"a"} Z %hash{"1"}; say @z;
02:39 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
02:39 shinobi-cl rakudo: my %hash; push %hash{"a"}, 1; push %hash{"a"}, 2; push %hash{"a"}, 3; push %hash{"1"}, 'a'; push %hash{"1"}, 'b'; push %hash{"1"}, 'c'; my @z = %hash{"a"} Z %hash{"1"}; say @z;
02:39 p6eval rakudo 36369: OUTPUT«No applicable methods.␤␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 90 (EVAL_16:46)␤»
02:40 shinobi-cl pugs: my @a = 1,2,3; my @b = "a","b","c"; my @z = @a Z @b; say @z;
02:40 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«123␤»
02:40 shinobi-cl pugs: my @a = 1,2,3; my @b = "a","b","c"; my @z = zip(@a,@b); say @z;
02:40 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1 a2 b3 c␤»
02:40 shinobi-cl rakudo: my %hash; push %hash{"a"}, 1; push %hash{"a"}, 2; push %hash{"a"}, 3; push %hash{"1"}, 'a'; push %hash{"1"}, 'b'; push %hash{"1"}, 'c'; my @z = zip(%hash{"a"}, %hash{"1"}); say @z;
02:40 p6eval rakudo 36369: OUTPUT«No applicable methods.␤␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 90 (EVAL_16:46)␤»
02:40 shinobi-cl pugs: my %hash; push %hash{"a"}, 1; push %hash{"a"}, 2; push %hash{"a"}, 3; push %hash{"1"}, 'a'; push %hash{"1"}, 'b'; push %hash{"1"}, 'c'; my @z = zip(%hash{"a"}, %hash{"1"}); say @z;
02:40 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1 a2 b3 c␤»
02:42 pugs_svn r25202 | particle++ | [S19] don't special-case C<-e6>, require C<-e '6;'>
02:45 shinobi-cl pugs: my %hash; push %hash{"a"}, 1; push %hash{"a"}, 2; push %hash{"a"}, 3; push %hash{"1"}, 'a'; push %hash{"1"}, 'b'; push %hash{"1"}, 'c'; my @z = zip(%hash{"a"}, %hash{"1"}); say @z.elems;
02:45 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«3␤»
02:45 shinobi-cl pugs: my %hash; push %hash{"a"}, 1; push %hash{"a"}, 2; push %hash{"a"}, 3; push %hash{"1"}, 'a'; push %hash{"1"}, 'b'; push %hash{"1"}, 'c'; my @z = zip(%hash{"a"}, %hash{"1"}); say @z;
02:45 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1 a2 b3 c␤»
02:48 pugs_svn r25203 | particle++ | [t/spec] remove accidentally committed and empty dirs
02:48 shinobi-cl pugs: my %hash; push %hash{"a"}, 1; push %hash{"a"}, 2; push %hash{"a"}, 3; push %hash{"1"}, 'a'; push %hash{"1"}, 'b'; push %hash{"1"}, 'c'; my @z = zip(%hash{"a"}, %hash{"1"}); say @z.reverse;
02:48 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«3 c2 b1 a␤»
02:49 shinobi-cl pugs: my %hash; push %hash{"a"}, 1; push %hash{"a"}, 2; push %hash{"a"}, 3; push %hash{"1"}, 'a'; push %hash{"1"}, 'b'; push %hash{"1"}, 'c'; my @z = zip(%hash{"a"}, %hash{"1"}.reverse); say @z;
02:49 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1 c2 b3 a␤»
02:58 shinobi-cl left #perl6
03:09 eternaleye joined #perl6
03:11 TheOrz joined #perl6
03:24 pugs_svn r25204 | putter++ | [elfish/on_sbcl] More build refactoring.  It should now be straightforward to add support for additional lisp implementations, and to debug clisp's.  See README.
03:35 eternaleye joined #perl6
04:15 mberends joined #perl6
04:37 legis joined #perl6
05:08 Tene joined #perl6
05:11 mtnviewmark joined #perl6
05:19 pugs_svn r25205 | particle++ | [S19] remove -o, as -O now defaults to STDOUT -- TimToady++. shuffle some list items around, to match order in perl6() signature
06:19 TheDouche joined #perl6
06:26 azawawi_ joined #perl6
06:55 ashizawa joined #perl6
07:37 maerzhase joined #perl6
07:50 mberends joined #perl6
08:02 rindolf joined #perl6
08:11 DemoFreak joined #perl6
08:20 iblechbot joined #perl6
08:44 mj41 joined #perl6
09:01 pugs_svn r25206 | moritz++ | [evalbot] rakudo should live in perl6/
09:07 pugs_svn r25207 | moritz++ | [evalbot] rakudo doesn't have svn revisions anymore
09:08 p6eval joined #perl6
09:09 moritz_ rakudo: say 'test'
09:09 p6eval rakudo c10807: OUTPUT«test␤»
09:09 moritz_ rakudo: say 'test'.perl
09:09 p6eval rakudo c10807: OUTPUT«"test"␤»
09:10 moritz_ ok, we now see the first 6 digits of the git SHA1 of the last commit
09:11 moritz_ is that sensible? or is a there a more suitable version identifier?
09:25 masak joined #perl6
09:26 meppl joined #perl6
09:29 Eevee joined #perl6
09:29 TheDouche joined #perl6
09:32 PantheraUncia joined #perl6
09:35 PantheraUncia Hi! Can somebody tell me what is wrong with git repo?
09:35 PantheraUncia Getting pack 2c81413a3c450fbfed1dab20012c7cd1b2fcf694
09:35 PantheraUncia which contains 49819babdfc9914549c278b9d826316ea8366345
09:35 PantheraUncia error: Unable to find ab74be6e7b81783ff462a7ed994aa82b7e824340 under http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git
09:35 PantheraUncia Cannot obtain needed tree ab74be6e7b81783ff462a7ed994aa82b7e824340
09:35 PantheraUncia while processing commit 1ab9b0738bcb9fddfb992f2d2d5c4ba0f571c043.
09:35 PantheraUncia fatal: Fetch failed.
09:36 moritz_ PantheraUncia: not sure I can help you... what command did you issue that gave you that error?
09:36 PantheraUncia git clone http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git
09:37 PantheraUncia It is reproducible.
09:38 moritz_ PantheraUncia: same here, but it works if you use git:// instead of http://
09:39 PantheraUncia OK, thank you.
09:44 smtms joined #perl6
10:00 jeremiah joined #perl6
10:02 cai joined #perl6
10:06 integral joined #perl6
10:07 jeremiah OHAI!
10:08 jeremiah So, if one wants to build the latest perl6, i.e. rakudo, then there is now a separate repo instead of using parrot?
10:09 jeremiah I built perl6 recently by downloading parrot, and cd'ing into languages/perl6
10:09 jeremiah But now I would just clone the rakudo git repo I assume.
10:10 moritz_ jeremiah: yes, as languages/rakudo in the parrot directory
10:12 jeremiah Okay, so pull the git repo, and cd parrot/languages/rakudo and build?
10:12 moritz_ first build parrot, then run rakudo's Configure.pl
10:12 jeremiah Okay, so the procedure has not changed at all, just the location and name of the repos.
10:13 moritz_ well, previously you didn't have to check out two repos, and run two Configure.pl's
10:13 jeremiah moritz_: Ah - so I have to clone parrot first, then clone rakudo to build perl6
10:13 jeremiah ?
10:15 moritz_ svn co https://svn.parrot.org/parrot/trunk parrot; cd parrot; perl Configure.pl; make; cd languages; git clone git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git; cd rakudo; perl Configure.pl; make
10:15 moritz_ if you already have a parrot checkout, you can re-use that, of course
10:20 jeremiah moritz_: Thanks, that makes it clear.
10:20 jeremiah I already have parrot so I will re-use that.\
10:23 braceta joined #perl6
10:29 jeremiah masak: Hmm, didn't know you were in Sweden too.
10:29 jeremiah I am in Gbg
10:29 jeremiah Are you going to the Oslo Nordic Perl Workshop?
10:29 masak jeremiah: aye.
10:30 masak doing a talk, even.
10:30 jtre joined #perl6
10:30 jeremiah Cool, we'll meet IRL
10:30 jeremiah Me too, what is your talk?
10:30 masak jeremiah: about November.
10:30 jeremiah I suppose I can check it out myself but I am lazy.
10:30 jtre hello!, does perl 5.8 happen to support code references?
10:30 jeremiah Cool, I was just looking at November, I think I am going to use that.
10:30 masak jtre: yes, but this is #perl6
10:30 masak jeremiah: very nice.
10:31 jtre sorry i tried #perl and didn't have much luck
10:31 jeremiah jtre: Yeah, the #perl channel is not a help channel, it is an  abuse channel. :)
10:32 moritz_ jtre: you might try #perlhelp, or #perl on irc.perl.org
10:32 masak jtre: we're more helpful here, but it's still off-topic. :P
10:32 jeremiah jtre: You might want to try #perl-help
10:32 jtre okay thanks
10:33 jeremiah moritz_: Have you spent time in #perl on irc.perl.org? It is not so helpful. :)
10:33 jtre can I ask you to take a look at this then? (i'll move to perlhelp in future) http://pastebin.ca/1327873
10:33 jtre it is copied from the higher order perl book, but won't compile, a can't find 'main' error
10:33 jtre Undefined subroutine &main:: called at hanoi.pl line 4.
10:33 jeremiah jtre: you are using the HOP book . . .
10:34 jeremiah ah, you said that, :)
10:34 jtre yes, is that a good thing?
10:34 moritz_ yes.
10:34 moritz_ jtre: the website for that book has a few erratas published
10:34 jeremiah jtre: That is a really good book.
10:35 jeremiah #$disk <- worries me
10:35 jtre I see, I'm on the online edition, I hoped the erratas would be updated
10:35 shinobi-cl joined #perl6
10:35 jtre ok, thanks, I'll check out the errata
10:35 jeremiah jtre: Are you using the free pdf? That is probably the most up-to-date
10:36 jtre yes I am
10:36 jeremiah line 13 in your example - #$disk
10:37 moritz_ jtre: in the sub hanoi it calls itself recursively with only 4 args
10:38 jtre argh, sorry I bothered you all
10:38 moritz_ jtre: if you 'use strict;' (I know MJD doesn't do it explicitly in the examples) you get an error message which is a bit more helpful
10:42 shinobi-cl left #perl6
10:43 Caelum joined #perl6
10:49 pugs_svn r25208 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] highlight autoquoted pair arguments to =use directives
10:49 pugs_svn r25209 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] remove TODO item
11:03 iblechbot_ joined #perl6
11:06 pugs_svn r25210 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] highlight =END specially and don't highlight anything after it
11:13 ruoso joined #perl6
11:15 pugs_svn r25211 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] fix regression regarding implicit code blocks in Pod
11:20 elmex joined #perl6
11:20 mberends </lurk> moritz_: is it a known gotcha that named parameters cause errors if they are typed and then omitted? S06 is silent on typing.
11:24 mberends rakudo: class A { method m(:$p) { say "param $p"; }; }; A.new.m("HAI");
11:24 p6eval rakudo c10807: OUTPUT«param HAI␤»
11:24 mberends rakudo: class A { method m(Str :$p) { say "param $p"; }; }; A.new.m("HAI");
11:24 p6eval rakudo c10807: OUTPUT«param HAI␤»
11:24 mberends rakudo: class A { method m(Str :$p) { say "param $p"; }; }; A.new.m();
11:24 p6eval rakudo c10807: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed for $p in call to m␤current instr.: 'die' pc 16844 (src/builtins/control.pir:204)␤»
11:25 mberends rakudo: class A { method m(:$p) { say "param $p"; }; }; A.new.m();
11:25 p6eval rakudo c10807: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤param ␤»
11:26 mberends rakudo: class A { method m(:$p) { my $p2 = $p // ""; say "param $p"; }; }; A.new.m();
11:26 p6eval rakudo c10807: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤param ␤»
11:27 mberends rakudo: class A { method m(:$p) { my $p2 = $p // ""; say "param $p2"; }; }; A.new.m();
11:27 p6eval rakudo c10807: OUTPUT«param ␤»
11:27 mberends rakudo: class A { method m(Str :$p) { my $p2 = $p // ""; say "param $p2"; }; }; A.new.m();
11:27 p6eval rakudo c10807: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed for $p in call to m␤current instr.: 'die' pc 16844 (src/builtins/control.pir:204)␤»
11:29 wolverian joined #perl6
11:30 pugs_svn r25212 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] highlight everything in '=for code' blocks as Pod code
11:31 mberends <lurk>
11:40 hudnix joined #perl6
11:45 cai_ joined #perl6
11:50 cai_ joined #perl6
11:53 pugs_svn r25213 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] rename some stuff for clarity
11:54 cai joined #perl6
12:03 cwc joined #perl6
12:10 moritz_ mberends: not known I think... care to open a ticket?
12:16 lambdabot joined #perl6
12:17 meppl joined #perl6
12:21 mberends </lurk>ok, later. Typed named parameters seem to be unspecified. It's a low priority. As a practical note, strong typing is becoming a useful debugging aid for Perl 6 development.
12:31 masak mberends: let me know if you want me to open the ticket.
12:32 jtre left #perl6
12:32 mberends yes please, my online time is limited during the coming few days. your rakudobug tools is faster too ;)
12:33 jeremiah masak: Reading a bit of your use perl blog and I agree with you about _why's documentation - it's inspired.
12:33 mberends *tool
12:33 * masak submits
12:33 masak jeremiah: care to help? :)
12:33 jeremiah masak: Actually, yes.
12:34 * masak thought so
12:34 jeremiah But I want to write documentation.
12:34 moritz_ masak: it might be inspiring to have a theme for documentation examples
12:34 masak jeremiah: excellent.
12:34 mberends is there a repo for U4X contributions?
12:34 jeremiah I write for The Perl Journal, so hopefully I can combine the two.
12:34 masak mberends: yes, the Pugs one
12:34 masak jeremiah: great. have you looked through the u4x README?
12:34 moritz_ I have troubles finding topics for my examples, so a general theme might be useful
12:35 mberends I also want to write documentation in Pod 6
12:35 jeremiah masak: No, where is that?
12:35 masak moritz_: or a few general themes.
12:35 jeremiah And what is u4x?
12:35 masak jeremiah: hold on, I'll get you the URL.
12:35 moritz_ masak: or that, yes
12:35 masak jeremiah: I'll get you two URLs :)
12:35 * jeremiah loves URLs :)
12:35 masak jeremiah: http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/38279
12:36 jeremiah I also have a cartoonist friend who is quite talented, so I might get him to help. :)
12:36 masak I think you read that one, but apparently not the u4x part. :)
12:36 masak jeremiah: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/docs/u4x/README
12:36 masak linked from the first one, but still.
12:36 masak jeremiah: sounds very nice.
12:36 jeremiah masak: Yep, you're right about the first link, have to do more than skim this time.
12:37 masak :)
12:39 jeremiah masak: w00t - U4X is a great idea and crucial to the success of perl6 - good docs FTW!
12:40 masak jeremiah: we're on the same page, it seems.
12:40 masak jeremiah: I've not abandoned the u4x project, but it gets very few tuits at present.
12:41 masak I expect to come back to it soonish.
12:41 masak right now November and Druid are eating my tuits.
12:41 mberends <lurk afk="true"> <!-- doing too much SVG these days -->
12:41 masak mberends: :P
12:41 jeremiah But Who TF is Micheal Dorn
12:41 moritz_ masak: sadly u4x.org is already taken
12:41 masak jeremiah: I still have no idea. :P
12:41 jeremiah hehe
12:41 masak moritz_: no matter, u4x is a throwaway project name.
12:42 jeremiah Aren't they all? :)
12:42 masak I wish.
12:45 masak basically, the only function of the name 'u4x' is a cool little mental tag during the period of writing the docs. I don't expect that name to appear anywhere in the docs, or in relation to them.
12:45 masak ...in the long run.
12:50 moritz_ masak: have you decided on the exact documentation format already?
12:50 moritz_ (uhm, I don't think that was a correct English sentence :-)
12:50 masak moritz_: no. I'll do the thinking in connection to writing one representative documentation item for each big type of thing.
12:51 masak I see no problem with the sentence, btw.
12:52 moritz_ ah right, my dictionary lists both 'decide sth' and 'decide on sth'
12:53 masak 'decided on' is what I'd write in this case.
12:53 masak so, to the extent that you trust my English language sense... :)
12:54 moritz_ :-)
12:58 masak jeremiah: I'll let you know when u4x reaches the next stage.
13:08 Matt-W 'decided on' is what I would have used as well
13:09 ZuLuuuuuu joined #perl6
13:12 jeremiah masak: great, I probably won't start poking around until next week, after FOSDEM
13:24 rob joined #perl6
13:25 ZuLuuuuuu left #perl6
13:29 hanekomu joined #perl6
13:49 mberends </lurk> Brits say 'decide on', Americans say 'decide' afaik.
13:55 jeremiah Sometimes we say "decide upon"
13:56 jeremiah That, in fact, might be the most grammatically correct.
13:56 Matt-W Different Brits say different things though
13:56 Matt-W We speak more than one variant of English
13:57 Matt-W Although all of them are more correct than the ones they speak over in the other place
13:57 Matt-W :P
14:00 [particle] australia? agreed.
14:00 jeremiah Two countries divided by a common language
14:01 mberends And they're over sexed, over paid and over here.
14:16 Caelum joined #perl6
14:32 smtms joined #perl6
14:33 masak jeremiah: that's ok. I might not have done anything by then. in any case, it's nice to have someone to brainstorm ideas with.
14:33 smtms cd
14:34 masak smtms: ~$
14:42 dalek joined #perl6
14:46 rodi joined #perl6
14:48 TimToady to Americans at least, you decide a question, but you decide on an answer, using question and answer loosely
14:49 rodi I have decided on more kombucha.
14:50 TimToady and "decide to" is more like "decide on"
14:54 TimToady "
14:54 Exodist joined #perl6
14:54 TimToady "Today in school I had to decide my favorite color, so I decided on green."
14:55 Matt-W Assuming that the speaker didn't just say "Today in school I had to decide my favourite colour, so I chose green."
14:56 Matt-W But there are always loads of ways to phrase things
14:56 [particle] not in pynglish!
14:56 Matt-W It helps the poets and lyricists
15:00 SamB joined #perl6
15:00 TimToady in CA at least we'd tend to use "picked" over "chose"
15:01 rodi In DC we would say "appropriated."
15:01 TimToady :)
15:01 rodi :)
15:02 TimToady in the rest of the country we'd say "misappropriate" for that :)
15:02 rodi Inside the beltway, we wouldn't hear you saying it ;)
15:02 Matt-W In Nottingham they say whatever they like, as long as they manage to squeeze a 'duck' or 'ducky' in there somewhere
15:03 Matt-W I've been here for five years and I'm still not used to it
15:05 TimToady you guys probably have the low castle doorway that is labelled "Duck or Grouse"
15:05 Matt-W Hah, quite possibly
15:06 masak oh, so _that's_ what that low door is for!
15:06 Matt-W My recorder teacher's music room door only comes up to my chin, but that's not labelled. Perhaps I should get her a sign :)
15:07 rodi The building I work in at the LC has 14 half-floors of stacks that are an inch above my 5'9" head.
15:08 [particle] that's a big head.
15:08 rodi ;)
15:08 Matt-W I don't like multistorey car parks
15:08 Matt-W where I end up cleaning the ceiling with my hair
15:08 masak [particle]: *lol*
15:20 rindolf joined #perl6
15:26 masak in other news, I'm seriously considering putting an project on github containing a Perl 6 project installer, so that poeple won't hesitate to divide their large projects into smaller independent modules.
15:27 [particle] "Perl 6 project installer"?
15:27 Matt-W What would that do?
15:28 masak Matt-W: ideally, you go 'install november', where both 'install' and 'november' are used loosely, and it installs november for you.
15:29 masak November contains a lot of re-usable modules. same for a couple of other git repositories I have laying around. it'd just be easier to know that coordinating all the different repositories wouldn't be a hassle.
15:29 Matt-W yes it would
15:29 masak in particular, setting PERL6LIB to the appropriate values.
15:30 * [particle] wants a vmware image with parrot, rakudo, spectest/docs, dev tools, prophet, sd, perl6-examples, november, apache, mod_perl6...
15:30 masak [particle]: sounds wonderful. couldn't you blog and ask lazyweb for it?
15:30 [particle] i just asked lazyirc :)
15:30 masak lazyirc is too lazy :)
15:31 masak we're on IRC, we're already a lost cause.
15:31 masak web users are more refined.
15:31 masak and blog posts have more impact, all things considered.
15:31 PerlJam [particle]: an image for parrot/rakudo/etc devs?  or for users?
15:32 JarJarBinks joined #perl6
15:33 masak for users, I presume. I'd call it a "Perl 6 bag of candy" of something.
15:33 masak s/of/or/
15:33 PerlJam yeah, that would be cool.
15:33 PerlJam you could hand 'em out at NPW :-)
15:35 masak Matt-W: well, there's a conceptual difference between "follow these 28 really simple steps" and "follow this one really simple step". that's what I'm after. I don't doubt there'll be complexities still, but I'd like to sweep them mostly under the nearest carpet.
15:35 masak PerlJam: also a great idea.
15:35 Matt-W masak: something that knows how to go and fetch all the different modules and get the main thing knowing where they are would be handy
15:36 [particle] perljam, yes, that's right
15:36 Matt-W Also I'm sorry I've not done anything useful lately on anything Perl 6-related, I'll get to it at some point
15:36 PerlJam masak: Sounds like CPAN-but-not-CPAN for perl6
15:36 masak Matt-W: exactly. I just want it to handle all deps and set up all the env vars.
15:36 masak Matt-W: no prob.
15:36 masak Matt-W: we're all volunteers here.
15:36 masak PerlJam: yes, that's a good description.
15:37 masak PerlJam: mind you, I don't plan to write the next CPAN.
15:37 masak just scratch an immediate itch.
15:37 mberends there are design docs and a limited Perl 5 implementation of 6PAN somewhere in the pugs tree
15:38 PerlJam masak: I don't think Andreas or whomever set out to write the first CPAN either  :)
15:38 masak PerlJam: :)
15:38 masak PerlJam: maybe if I design it to be inherently limited...
15:39 masak mberends: I might take a look, but I don't intend to do something like that. just a tiny package installer and deps handler.
15:39 masak sort of a proto-6PAN.
15:39 masak ah! that's it: 'proto'. that's what I'll call it.
15:39 Matt-W If nothing else, it might tell us something about how to do 6PAN
15:39 masak aye.
15:41 Matt-W A bit like one of my colleagues trying to calm me down yesterday saying it doesn't matter, we're always going to go down dead ends in development, you're not the first person who had to throw away a week of incredibly fiddly code, we've learned loads from it...
15:41 Matt-W Well, maybe not
15:42 jeremiah Hmmm, you could build a "Perl 6 bag of candy" with debian as a live CD. Might be kinda cool.
15:42 moritz_ hey, nice idea :-)
15:42 mberends the existing design is pugs/misc/sixpan, talks about JIB files, and being similar to Debian in dependency handling
15:42 masak jeremiah++
15:42 PerlJam Matt-W: heh ... I had a similar conversation with a professor here with regard to one of his grad students.  She didn't want to do lots of work only to have to throw it away.
15:42 jeremiah I have been fooling around with live debian CDs - the are easy to build
15:42 PerlJam jeremiah: ubuntu too  ;-)
15:43 jeremiah You can even build a live CD of your current system so we should try to get a "standard" complete install and build that.
15:43 Matt-W PerlJam: I'll do it if I know it's throwaway going in and I know what I'm going to get out of it, but I was led down this path by someone else who, it turns out, wasn't paying attention.
15:44 jeremiah Put some documentation, a nice tutorial, and people could boot from it and start writing perl 6 right away.
15:44 mberends could someone please make a LiveCD of OSX to help compatibility testing ;)
15:44 PerlJam Matt-W: but that's the thing about doing stuff no one has done before ... you don't know a priori what will be thrown away (if anything)
15:44 jeremiah mberends: Shouldn't be too hard to make .dmg
15:44 PerlJam sometimes it's everything and you start over
15:44 PerlJam jeremiah: sounds like you're volunteering
15:45 jeremiah mberends: Or once the CD / ISO is built, you can run it in Virtualbox
15:45 mberends VirtualBox++
15:45 jeremiah PerlJam: You bet! :)
15:45 jeremiah I will start on this after FOSDEM, because I know I will not get much done this weekend at FOSDEM.
15:45 jeremiah :)
15:45 Matt-W PerlJam: that is true, but saying to somebody who wrote a giant library 'I want to put this in it' and he says 'put it here' and turns out to be wrong, that's quite different
15:47 TimToady just bear in mind that PERL6LIB is a hack, and not the correct long-term solution for the officially installed library
15:47 PerlJam Matt-W: yeah, well you flip the boxo bit on the guy and never listen to him again.  living is learning :)
15:48 masak TimToady: oh. I didn't know that.
15:48 masak but that's ok, my installer isn't long-term either.
15:49 Matt-W PerlJam: It is, but I was very angry about it yesterday
15:49 TimToady we'll use PERL6LIB to look for the user's hacks, but the standard lib will have a standard API and be searchable more like a database, so we can do wildcards efficiently
15:49 PerlJam masak: nothing is as temporary as you intend it to be.
15:50 TimToady and the standard lib will enforce that the version number changes when the code changes
15:50 Matt-W Oooh sounds good.
15:50 masak PerlJam: I hear ya.
15:50 mberends the Makefile.p6 I posted to perl6-examples yesterday sniffs out how you got it to run, and then infers PARROT_DIR RAKUDO_DIR and PERL6LIB semi-automagically, that could help.
15:50 stephenlb joined #perl6
15:51 TimToady the standard lib is more like a repo, where the things you check in are considered immutable from then on
15:51 masak TimToady: I hear you too. I'm all OK with building short-term solutions that'll break when the long term sets in.
15:51 masak mberends: will take a look.
15:51 TimToady which is why I just said "bear in mind" :)
15:51 masak TimToady: aye :)
15:52 masak mberends: though as I said, I'm a bit skeptical about using distro-specific tools...
15:52 mberends the distro-specific 'ps' hack is a *temporary* workaround for a missing $*PROG special var.
15:53 masak mberends: oh. :)
15:53 masak mberends++
15:53 masak mberends: did you also create a big fat RT TODO ticket for $*PROG?
15:53 mberends for the umpteenth time, sorry, no.
15:53 TimToady we should have a primitive in P6 that says "this code will start throwing deprecation warnings in a year"  :)
15:54 * masak does so
15:54 masak TimToady: with our luck, it wont get implemented in Rakudo until next year :)
15:54 moritz_ age(:upto<2009-06-30>);
15:55 TimToady use till '2009-06-30';
15:56 [particle] { ... :timeout{DateTime.new('next xmas')} }
15:56 PerlJam TimToady: handling of versions and authors and such has seemed very databasey but you've never mentioned any specific database (that I've seen).  Do you have any ideas on how to do that (or not to do it)?  Incorporate sqlite as part of perl6 for instance?
15:56 TimToady course what happens on 2009-07-01 is the directive gets delete
15:56 TimToady *deletted
15:56 TimToady *deleted, gah
15:57 TimToady I don't actually care, as long as the API is correct
15:57 mberends self deleting code - the ultimate garbage collection
15:57 moritz_ TimToady: well, but if the line is deleted, the version number changes
15:57 Matt-W TimToady: would you expect different Perl 6 implementations to have their own library installs?
15:58 TimToady yes, more or less
15:58 TimToady but maybe there could be a standard one
15:58 TimToady it would depend on having certain functionality available everywhere though
15:59 ejs joined #perl6
15:59 TimToady ability to do crypto checksums and such
15:59 PerlJam Is there a spec or will there be a spec for such things?
16:00 TimToady well, high-level is in S11, but that's merely describing the intended results
16:01 Tene_ joined #perl6
16:04 maerzhase joined #perl6
16:16 ZuLuuuuuu joined #perl6
16:18 [particle] should the default autoloop splitter be on horizontal whitespace only?
16:18 justatheory joined #perl6
16:20 literal why is it called an autoloop splitter? does it split loops? :P
16:21 [particle] it's the split character for autoloops (-n and -p)
16:21 TimToady the default should be autocomb
16:21 TimToady which combs for \S+ by defualt
16:21 TimToady *default
16:22 TimToady split(' ') is P5Thik
16:22 TimToady Think, eve
16:22 TimToady even, even
16:22 moritz_ that's odd :-)
16:23 PerlJam where are the results of the auto-comb stored?
16:23 [particle] ah, ok, yes it is.
16:23 [particle] will fix, today.
16:24 TimToady PerlJam: haven't decided, maybe just comes in as @_
16:25 TimToady P5's @F is ugly
16:25 [particle] i decided on @_ last night, that's the S19 spec now
16:25 TimToady good
16:25 [particle] @Fugly
16:25 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
16:25 TimToady @die
16:25 lambdabot unexpected end of input: expecting number
16:25 masak :)
16:25 [particle] :)
16:25 TimToady @die now!
16:25 lambdabot unexpected "n": expecting number
16:25 PerlJam and split in void context goes to @_ again  ?  ;->
16:25 TimToady @die inf
16:25 lambdabot unexpected "i": expecting number
16:33 pmurias joined #perl6
16:41 alester joined #perl6
16:42 mberends left #perl6
16:44 maerzhase joined #perl6
16:50 ZuLuuuuuu left #perl6
17:12 hercynium joined #perl6
17:12 elmex joined #perl6
17:14 [particle]1 joined #perl6
17:15 pugs_svn r25214 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] consolidated all keyword regexes into a few big ones, added some comments
17:23 pugs_svn r25215 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] variable cleanup
17:23 azawawi joined #perl6
17:33 ZuLuuuuuu joined #perl6
17:34 ayrnieu joined #perl6
18:02 mberends joined #perl6
18:04 aindilis joined #perl6
18:07 elmex joined #perl6
18:24 aindilis` joined #perl6
18:37 icwiener joined #perl6
18:57 Psyche^ joined #perl6
19:01 M_o_C joined #perl6
19:07 pugs_svn r25216 | putter++ | [elfparse] README: Fixed incorrect problem description.
19:09 ruoso TimToady, have you seen the proposed IO API I drafted?
19:19 sail0r_ joined #perl6
19:33 spx2 joined #perl6
19:42 schmalbe joined #perl6
19:47 rodi
19:52 maerzhase joined #perl6
19:54 IllvilJa joined #perl6
20:19 ejs joined #perl6
20:27 DemoPhreak joined #perl6
20:29 braceta left #perl6
20:37 szabgab joined #perl6
20:43 zamolxes joined #perl6
20:46 wolverian joined #perl6
21:03 oskie ooh, IO APIs - that's a hot potato
21:19 spx2 joined #perl6
21:21 dalek rakudo: f990451 | (Moritz Lenz)++ | tools/autounfudge.pl:
21:21 dalek rakudo: [tools/autounfudge.pl] various small updates
21:21 dalek rakudo:  * follow symlinks
21:21 dalek rakudo:  * allow finer graded control over what we want to have fudged
21:21 dalek rakudo:  * a bit more documentation
21:21 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f​990451545fb50a378069eb748d99cb09021c70d
21:25 spx2 joined #perl6
21:40 szabgab joined #perl6
21:40 jferrero joined #perl6
22:09 Whiteknight joined #perl6
22:54 szabgab joined #perl6
23:04 alester has ANYONE seen pmichaud lately?
23:04 moritz_ yes
23:04 moritz_ sporadically
23:05 wknight8111 joined #perl6
23:05 moritz_ for example Tuesday 18:30 UTC at #parrotsketch ;-)
23:05 [particle]1 alester: try email
23:05 [particle]1 @pobox
23:05 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
23:09 ZuLuuuuuu left #perl6
23:12 alester particle: I have.
23:12 alester ok, goin' home to work on Frozen Perl slides
23:14 mdxi joined #perl6
23:19 literal to what extent is m:P5// like Perl 5's regex flavor? is everything the same except for the lack of postfix modifiers?
23:25 szabgab joined #perl6
23:37 [particle]1 it *is* perl 5 regex
23:38 [particle]1 yeah, i think just postfix modifiers
23:45 literal and is P5 the only adverb allowed, or can you use others, e.g. m:P5:pos($foo)/bar/
23:57 Limbic_Region joined #perl6

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs