Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-02-06

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:00 meppl good night
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02:11 literal perl6: "foo \99"
02:11 p6eval rakudo f99045: OUTPUT«\123 form deprecated, use \o123 instead at line 1, near "foo \\99\""␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
02:11 p6eval ..elf 25216: RESULT«"foo\ 99"␤»
02:11 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«pugs: Error: Invalid escape sequence \99; write as decimal \c99 or octal \o99 instead␤»
02:12 literal heh, \o99? silly pugs
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04:44 nety350 how to replace an (,) by an dot on an file with an regex?
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04:45 nety350 anyone ?
04:46 alester ?
04:47 nety350 because I need to divide this after...
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08:11 mberends coffee++
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10:35 masak in the interests of 'release early', here's the proto installer I talked about yesterday: http://github.com/masak/proto/
10:35 masak it currently detects if you have Parrot and Rakudo installed, otherwise it installs them for you.
10:36 masak it's _very_ primitive, but it Works On My System
10:36 masak be happy to receive reports from other Perl 6 developers that it works for them too.
10:36 masak there are two ways to test it:
10:36 masak 1. running the shell script with Parrot and Rakudo installed. the script should immediately exit successfully.
10:37 masak 2. running the script after hiding the value of $PARROT_DIR. the script should download and install Parrot and Rakudo, and exit successfully.
10:39 masak I'm a bash script ignoramus, so I'd appreciate review of the script itself as well.
10:39 masak kthxbai.
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11:24 szabgab masak, who or what else is using PARROT_DIR and is it defined somewhere where should it point to ?
11:24 masak szabgab: I'll have to think about that a bit. we use it in November.
11:25 masak perl6-examples also uses it.
11:25 szabgab what is perl6-examples?
11:25 masak but I'm not sure whether it originated there or whether it's a Parrot standard.
11:25 masak szabgab: https://github.com/eric256/perl6-examples/
11:25 masak contains some really cool stuff.
11:25 szabgab thanks I'll look at it
11:26 szabgab in Padre we require a PARROT_PATH variable to point to the root of the checked out trunk of parrot
11:26 masak that's what we call PARROT_DIR
11:27 szabgab so I'll change the name to PARROT_DIR
11:27 masak szabgab++
11:27 szabgab but I'd really like it people writing perl 6 code would check out padre and the perl 6 plugin
11:27 masak hm, Druid also uses it. I can't think of who first introduced it in November. maybe viklund.
11:28 masak szabgab: I'm on Mac OS X. is there any way I can use Padre?
11:28 szabgab there were some success reports on Mac though it is generally still a pain
11:29 szabgab mainly due to wxwidgets issues
11:29 masak that, along with general Emacs addiction, keeps me from using Padre right now.
11:29 masak but yes, I should give it a shot.
11:30 szabgab actually Teejay is quite close to an emacs plugin for Padre
11:30 masak szabgab: I'm sure you mean well, but... :)
11:31 szabgab do you sometimes write extensions to emacs?
11:32 masak no, I haven't gotten that far yet. but I think about it sometimes.
11:32 masak last summer I delved deeper into Emacs, with great results.
11:32 masak but it takes time.
11:32 masak I'm also a very satisfied vim user. come to think of it, I do most of my Perl 6 coding in vim.
11:33 szabgab so what if you wrote your editor extensions in perl 5 or perl 6 ?
11:34 masak szabgab: I... ooh! :)
11:34 * masak will consider the implications of this
11:35 * SamB doesn't think trying to integrate perl and elisp is the greatest idea ?
11:35 masak SamB: build it, and they will come.
11:36 masak lunch &
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11:49 Matt-W I tried to learn elisp once, but I couldn't handle the syntax
12:10 SamB Matt-W: it HAS that ?
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12:31 mberends </lurk> masak++ # proto
12:33 mberends masak, we'll make a bash hacker out of you yet!
12:33 masak :)
12:33 masak mberends: just found Configure in the perl5.10.0 install tarball.
12:34 masak I'll be able to steal a few ideas from there.
12:34 masak mberends: btw, whether you want it or not, I'm adding you as a committer to proto. :)
12:34 masak moritz_: you too.
12:34 mberends :)
12:34 masak eric256: you too.
12:35 mberends <lurk afk="true">
12:38 moritz_ masak: what is proto?
12:39 masak moritz_: see logs from yesterday. it's a build system.
12:39 masak https://github.com/masak/proto
12:40 masak please, everyone, give it a whirl and see that it works on your box.
12:40 masak szabgab: I'm adding you too.
12:40 moritz_ masak: nice
12:40 masak moritz_: thank you. :)
12:41 * moritz_ won't protest against commit privileges
12:41 masak moritz_: good, 'cus you already have them.
12:41 masak I'm learning bash scripting on the go. :)
12:45 masak moritz_: do you know where the env variable PARROT_DIR originated? the first mention of it in November is August 20th, when it was renamed from PARROT_PATH to PARROT_DIR without explanation.
12:45 masak I'm curious whether November got it from somewhere or if it originated there.
12:46 moritz_ masak: no idea, but it seems sensible to rename it from path to dir
12:46 masak aye.
12:47 masak I guess I'll just have to ask viklund.
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13:08 Matt-W SamB: yes of course it has syntax... the problem with lisp-like syntax is that it consists almost entirely of ( and )
13:09 masak Matt-W: I found that to be a problem in the beginning as well.
13:09 masak turns out the secret to handling that lies in good indentation practices.
13:10 masak (as well as having an editor that does paren highlighting, but all decent editors do that, right?)
13:10 Matt-W which, actually, applies to a lot of language
13:10 masak _especially_ python.
13:10 Matt-W C++ needs good indentation to be readable
13:10 Matt-W heh yes, Python just happens to enforce it
13:10 Matt-W Haskell does too, although there's a non-indenty syntax available as well
13:11 moritz_ that's quite cool having both syntaxes available
13:11 Matt-W yeah
13:11 Matt-W the thing is though
13:11 cls_bsd agree
13:12 Matt-W most people who use the non-indenty one seem to lay it out almost exactly like they were using the offside rule syntax
13:12 Matt-W so I don't quite see the point, as they're just using extra characters to say the same thing
13:12 Matt-W But if it keeps them happy...
13:12 masak :)
13:13 moritz_ Matt-W: it always makes me happy if I do things voluntarily, and not because I'm force to
13:13 masak Matt-W: do you have a github account?
13:13 Matt-W I don't see why syntactically-significant indentation is such a strong issue with some people
13:13 pugs_svn r25217 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] allow m// to take adverbs starting with a digit, also highlight almost all Perl 5 regex constructs in m:P5//
13:13 Matt-W it's not like C gives you any options about using { ; }
13:14 Matt-W I think it's just because some people like writing messy code
13:14 Matt-W masak: yes
13:14 masak Matt-W: what's the username?
13:14 Matt-W ummm
13:14 Matt-W err
13:14 Matt-W let me check
13:14 masak :P
13:14 Matt-W mattw
13:15 Matt-W it's a fairly new account and I've not used it much yet
13:15 Matt-W one repo with nothing in it
13:15 masak Matt-W: added you as a proto admin.
13:15 masak I'm adding everybody, because I want to emphasize that we're all in this together :)
13:16 Matt-W heh
13:16 Matt-W and also you're hoping that I'll take the hint and write some of the code?
13:16 masak in this case, no.
13:17 masak I want to write it myself :)
13:17 Matt-W Oh okay
13:17 masak but I want everyone to have access to information about their own modules.
13:17 masak in case they need to change something.
13:17 Matt-W mm, good plan
13:23 masak plan of action during the next few days: establish a list of all extant Perl 6 projects on github, and make sure they can be installed through './proto install <module'
13:24 masak after that, create the first dependency (most likely by moving out something from November)
13:24 masak hm, I need to write to the november-wiki mailing list and alert the november devs about proto...
13:29 masak viklund thinks he invented PARROT_DIR, btw.
13:39 * Matt-W wiggles his fingers and wonders what he can depend upon from November
13:40 masak there are some goodies in there.
13:41 masak I'm especially proud of the markup parsers, of course.
13:41 masak but there's also a whole lot of web stuff.
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13:53 mberends </lurk> PARROT_DIR is not much of an invention, btw. The concept is decades old, eg perl5.004 has PERL_SH_DIR in README.os2
13:54 mberends (but the best wheels get re-invented)
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14:27 ajr I get a "mingw32-make perl6" error on Windows. How do I get updated source now that Rakudo has moved?
14:28 moritz_ ajr: cd parrot/languages; git-clone  git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git; cd rakudo; perl Configure.pl
14:29 moritz_ ajr: the last step assumes that parrot is already built
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15:01 * masak , while writing an essay in Mandarin, get sudden and worrying associations to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room
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15:09 masak moritz_: are you available?
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15:09 moritz_ masak: a bit
15:09 ajr Thanks for the clue, moritz
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15:12 masak moritz_: I'm getting a strange error in proto when building without PARROT_DIR set.
15:12 masak I was wondering if you (or someone else) could try and reproduce it.
15:12 ruoso Hello!
15:13 moritz_ masak: how do I run it?
15:14 masak moritz_: just ./proto in that dir.
15:14 masak but if you have a PARROT_DIR set, you'll have to unset that first.
15:15 moritz_ masak: http://nopaste.snit.ch/15510
15:15 masak ah :)
15:15 masak so we have more fundamental errors to deal with first.
15:15 masak if you want a quick fix, it's this:
15:16 masak which perl > /dev/null
15:16 masak on line 14 of the script
15:16 masak and same but s/perl/git/ on l 23.
15:16 masak meanwhile, I'll commit that. :)
15:17 masak there, pushed.
15:21 moritz_ Build succeeded strangely. Giving up. See make.log for details.
15:21 masak aye.
15:21 masak it's parrot-0.9.0/languages/rakudo/make.log
15:21 moritz_ I just found that :-)
15:22 masak I'm changing that error message to 'Build failed' as we speak. :) much clearer.
15:22 moritz_ ./perl6str.pmc:168: error: ‘PARROT_FLOATVAL_INF_POSITIVE’ undeclared (first use in this function)
15:22 masak yes, but why?
15:23 masak the only difference, as far as I know, is that we're using the public clone URL here.
15:23 moritz_ masak: no, you also export PARROT_DIR, don't you?
15:25 masak um, yes...
15:25 masak but I usually build Rakudo with PARROT_DIR set.
15:28 masak besides, why would the exportation of PARROT_DIR affect the Rakudo build process?
15:30 moritz_ dunno
15:31 masak moritz_: anyway, thanks for confirming. I'll try and track down the error.
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16:37 diakopter std: class MyTypeSystem does ParametricPolymorphism does DuckTyping { ; }
16:37 p6eval std 25217: OUTPUT«00:02 32m␤»
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18:54 Coke http://news.perlfoundation.org/20​09/02/2009q1_grant_proposals.html :: community comments welcome for the next week before the grant committee votes on these proposals. (at least one of them is p6 related.)
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20:14 pugs_svn r25218 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] a few small fixes, also highlight the majority of Perl 6 regex/grammar constructs
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20:20 pugs_svn r25219 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] use '\K' instead of the more verbose '\k\d\@<\!'
20:28 pugs_svn r25220 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] random cosmetic changes
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23:24 pugs_svn r25221 | lwall++ | [STD] parameterize setting file
23:25 pugs_svn r25222 | lwall++ | rename PERL:: to CORE:: and LANG:: to SETTING::
23:27 pugs_svn r25223 | lwall++ | refactor pseudo-package names
23:27 pugs_svn r25223 | lwall++ | clarify use of protoobjects as responder to subcall interface
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Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo