Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-02-25

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:18 s1n rakudo: class A { method baz($what) { $.foo($what); }; method foo($f) { say $f }; }; my A $bar; $bar.baz("h")
01:19 p6eval rakudo 70d908: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (1) - 2 params expected␤current instr.: 'parrot;A;foo' pc 273 (EVAL_20:114)␤»
01:19 s1n umm, what's wrong with that?
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01:34 diakopter rakudo: class A { method baz($what) { $.foo($what); }; method foo($f) { say $f; }; }; my A $bar; $bar.baz("h","i");
01:34 TimToady looks like a bug to me.  a protoobject should be usable like a normal object, up until you need actual $! storage
01:34 p6eval rakudo 70d908: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed (4) - 2 params expected␤current instr.: 'parrot;A;baz' pc 154 (EVAL_19:72)␤»
01:36 TimToady rakudo: class A { method baz($what) { self.foo($what); }; method foo($f) { say $f }; }; my A $bar; $bar.baz("h")
01:36 p6eval rakudo 70d908: OUTPUT«h␤»
01:36 TimToady looks like $.foo() is requiring $!foo to exist, which is bogus
01:37 TimToady $.foo() and self.foo() should be identical in operation
01:37 pmichaud there was a discussion about this a few weeks ago.
01:38 pmichaud what if A declares    has $.foo;   ?
01:38 TimToady then it should fail at the point where method foo looks for $!foo
01:40 pmichaud I'm confused by "where method foo looks for $!foo"
01:40 TimToady $.foo is the public accessor, which encapsulates whether the method is synthetic or even is a class attribute
01:40 TimToady has $.foo autogenerates a foo method
01:40 TimToady that foo method has to refer to $!foo somehow
01:40 TimToady since $.foo is just a recursive call
01:40 pmichaud okay.
01:40 pmichaud I guess I'm misremembering the discussion of a few weeks ago.
01:42 pmichaud it looks like rakudo does indeed treat $.foo as a method call.  But it wants a self.
01:42 TimToady a protoobject is a self
01:42 pmichaud agreed.
01:42 diakopter is there a way to declare a particular type should *not* "have" a certain method (that maybe it's inheriting), other than by overriding the method and throwing a not implemented exception?  Something like   hasnt $.foo;  ?
01:43 TimToady we can have apostrophes, so it'd be hasn't  :)
01:43 diakopter so for role inheritance cancellation, that'd be doesn't?
01:44 pmichaud rakudo:  class A { method baz($what) { say $what; }; }; my A $bar;  $bar.baz('h');
01:44 p6eval rakudo 70d908: OUTPUT«h␤»
01:44 pmichaud rakudo:  class A { method baz($what) { say $what; }; method foo($f) { say $f }; }; my A $bar;  $bar.foo('h');
01:44 p6eval rakudo 70d908: OUTPUT«h␤»
01:44 pmichaud rakudo:  class A { method baz($what) { self.foo($what); }; method foo($f) { say $f }; }; my A $bar;  $bar.baz('h');
01:44 p6eval rakudo 70d908: OUTPUT«h␤»
01:45 pmichaud rakudo:  class A { method baz($what) { $_ = self; .foo($what); }; method foo($f) { say $f }; }; my A $bar;  $bar.baz('h');
01:45 p6eval rakudo 70d908: OUTPUT«h␤»
01:45 pmichaud rakudo:  class A { method baz($what) { $.foo($what); }; method foo($f) { say $f }; }; my A $bar;  $bar.baz('h');
01:45 p6eval rakudo 70d908: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (1) - 2 params expected␤current instr.: 'parrot;A;foo' pc 273 (EVAL_19:114)␤»
01:45 TimToady kaboom
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01:46 diakopter std: class Whiney ain't Compliant {};
01:46 p6eval std 25535: OUTPUT«############# PARSE FAILED #############␤Malformed "class" declaration␤Unable to parse class definition at /tmp/vDbVurLouv line 1:␤------> [32mclass Whiney [31main't Compliant {};[0m␤    expecting trait␤FAILED 00:02 33m␤»
01:48 diakopter I'm strangely attracted to the notion of negative declarations.
01:49 diakopter does any other language have that yet?  would it be useful?
01:50 pmichaud oh yes, I remember the problem now.
01:50 pmichaud $.foo gets treated like a listop.
01:51 pmichaud so rakudo ends up treating $.foo   as self.foo()
01:51 pmichaud thus $.foo($what)  ends up being   self.foo()($what)
01:51 TimToady it's really a special form
01:53 TimToady STD parses it under variable, but looks ahead for the '(' and adds an arglist
01:53 pmichaud okay.  I suspect STD didn't used to do that...?
01:53 TimToady seems pretty ancient to me
01:54 TimToady what's the opposite of a gnostic interpolation?
01:57 pmichaud (ancient) -- you're correct, since at least July 2008.  Wonder how/why we missed that.
01:57 pmichaud anyway, thanks for the quick pointer -- we can fix now.
01:58 pugs_svn r25536 | lwall++ | indent examples
01:58 TimToady np
02:00 diakopter well, that's kinda redundant, since gnostics by definition read between the lines... so the opposite might be a ghostly extirpation.
02:02 diakopter interstitial gnopolation?
02:41 meppl good night
02:45 dalek rakudo: 5944501 | pmichaud++ | t/harness:
02:45 dalek rakudo: Updated harness that doesn't rely on Parrot::Test::Harness.
02:45 dalek rakudo: This version doesn't honor the --jobs option; patches welcome
02:45 dalek rakudo: to re-add that feature.  Also needs testing on Win32.
02:45 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5944501430c79ff16647469d383750c4a301bd16
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02:48 diakopter pmichaud: works in win32 for me.. :)
02:54 s1n pmichaud: so i assume the conclusion is that's a rakudo bug
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03:07 pmichaud diakopter: thanks, very good to know.
03:07 pmichaud s1n: yes, it looks like a rakudobug.
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03:39 pugs_svn r25537 | wayland++ | Rename S28 as per suggestion
03:48 pugs_svn r25538 | wayland++ | Added Predefined Metasyntax section, as per richard++
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05:19 pugs_svn r25539 | lwall++ | document which assertions are on the endangered list
05:31 pugs_svn r25540 | wayland++ | S16: Added some information about signal processing.
05:31 pugs_svn r25540 | wayland++ | S28: Pushed the Perl5 to Perl6 special variable translation table as far as possible
05:31 pugs_svn r25540 | wayland++ | without receiving more information (well, maybe I could fix one or two things...)
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06:07 diakopter pmichaud: fyi, all tests successful on win32 (no it didn't *just* finish; I just noticed it)
06:07 pmichaud diakopter: thank you again -- that's a huge help to me right now.
06:07 diakopter yw :)
06:07 pmichaud diakopter: win32 is one of my problem platforms :-|
06:09 pugs_svn r25541 | wayland++ | S28: Incorporated some more stuff from the old documentation lower down, and a few
06:09 pugs_svn r25541 | wayland++ | variables from S02.
06:09 diakopter that was with Parrot HEAD, btw.  after chromatic fixed it for msvc15/vsts9.
06:11 diakopter it would be interesting to compare the test run times for a mingw32/gcc build vs. cygwin/gcc build vs. vc15 amd64 build vs. vc15 x86 build on the same machine...
06:12 cspencer does rakudo not build on the most recent version of parrot?
06:13 cspencer it's complaining about the perl6str pmc...
06:14 cspencer sorry, my fault, i was in the wrong repository :/
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06:17 pmichaud cspencer: we no longer guarantee to build with the most recent version of parrot.
06:17 pmichaud we can't really guarantee that, because parrot now gets changes that aren't tested against rakudo.
06:17 cspencer is there a recommended version number?
06:18 cspencer ah ok
06:18 cspencer it's guaranteed against the latest stable release then?
06:18 pmichaud yes, it's maintained in build/PARROT_REVISION
06:18 pmichaud no, it's not guaranteed against the latest stable Parrot release either
06:18 cspencer great, thanks :)
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06:18 pmichaud cspencer: in fact, if you use    perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot    then Rakudo will keep a copy of the correct Parrot revision for you.
06:19 cspencer that would make things a lot easier
06:20 cspencer that worked great, thank you :)
06:21 pmichaud I need sleep -- bbl.
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06:29 TimToady n
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06:42 araujo TimToady, there?
06:52 TimToady kinda sorta
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07:05 araujo foo.{ <expr1 .. expr2 .. exprN> }.end
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07:05 araujo TimToady, how do you find that syntax?
07:05 * araujo wanted an opinion from an enough twisted mind :P
07:40 masak joined #perl6
07:40 mberends masak: howdy
07:45 masak mberends: hey there.
07:45 masak latest news: first release of an SVG module.
07:45 masak downloadable via proto. :)
07:45 mberends yay!
07:48 * mberends will hopefully test a perl5 proto on SVG in the next 2 hours
07:49 masak cool.
07:49 masak I'll be around till lunch.
07:49 masak I also added a few comments to the installer script.
07:50 masak things I came to think of.
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07:51 masak mberends: after you've pushed your perl5 proto changes, I think I'll have a go on the update subcommand.
07:51 masak just to move that notice ever downwards.
07:52 masak the update subcommand will need not only to traverse the dep tree and update all packages, but also re-read the deps.proto files and install new packages that might have been added.
07:52 moritz_ good morning
07:52 masak moritz_: morgens.
07:53 mberends gute morgen, moritz_
07:55 mberends masak: update may be able to inherit logic from install. your commented points are ones I was thinking of too - in perl6-examples I am going for a 'perl6 Configure.pl' format instead of 'perl5 Makefile.PL'
07:55 masak mberends: we need to detect that, then.
07:56 masak some detection order for Configure.pl and Makefile.PL, and language detection for both.
07:56 masak the goal is to provide sane project standards, but not to restrict.
07:56 mberends there may be other builder launchers too, or none at all, like you wrote
07:57 masak SVG doesn't have one.
07:57 masak it succeeds only because the installer doesn't detect failure.
07:58 mberends that must be officially good, not just a corner case
07:58 masak mberends: well, partly.
07:58 masak when things really fail, we want to fail too.
07:58 masak it would also be nice if we provided easy instructions saying "what to do now" when things go wrong during an install.
07:59 masak possibly (1) update proto, (2) mail a bug report (provided in a generated file) to the responsible project developer
08:00 masak the first step is necessary, because people might have a months-old proto, and the projects are listed in the installer script.
08:00 masak hm, that last part feels like a weakness. maybe we should keep the list of projects in a separate file, and do git-pull on that in the installer, and then slurp it.
08:02 mberends now you're talking scalability! no more Mr. Lightweight!
08:02 masak :P
08:02 masak well... nevermind for now.
08:02 masak first up is the basic feature list.
08:02 masak when people have problems with updating, we'll address that.
08:03 mberends agreed. 1. walk 2. run 3. profit!
08:03 masak I look forward to be using proto myself as a one-stop all-projects updater.
08:04 masak including "pseudoprojects" like parrot, rakudo, and proto.
08:04 masak well, um, the former two will not see frequent updates. only monthly ones.
08:05 mberends the former might be difficult if you used the PARROT_DIR option
08:06 mberends s/might be/is/
08:08 masak why?
08:09 masak oh.
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08:09 masak perhaps fail and inform the user that a new Parrot is available for download.
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08:11 masak or build it locally in the projects/ dir, and say that the user should 'rm -rf $PARROT_DIR; mv projects/parrot-a.b.c $PARROT_DIR'
08:11 masak I guess the waterline might be whether the user has write access to $PARROT_DIR or something.
08:12 mberends all tricky issues, depending on why the user has parrot outside proto/projects (why should she? proto rulez the world)
08:13 masak we don't question people's choices, we just roll our eyes and help them as best we can. :)
08:13 mberends heh
08:13 masak (they might be on feather, with only user accounts and a global parrot already installed)
08:14 mberends (they might be offline a lot, and have up to 7 regression parrots)
08:15 ejs joined #perl6
08:15 masak :)
08:15 masak how do you keep them apart?
08:15 ejs1 joined #perl6
08:15 masak s/keep/tell/
08:16 mberends directory names parrot-<revision>
08:17 masak ok, and that's enough? I mean, how do you know which revision you want?
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08:18 mberends There were bitrot cases in my code. Rakudo improvements and workarounds have improved the bitrot situation, there is almost no need for regression parrots today.
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08:18 masak ack.
08:19 mberends but we should support PARROT_DIR for whatever needs may arise
08:19 masak definitely.
08:20 mberends is it true that RAKUDO_DIR can still be only PARROT_DIR's direct parent or grandchild?
08:21 * masak thinks so
08:21 moritz_ unless parrot is installed, of course
08:21 masak and proto doesn't as yet support the former.
08:21 masak (but will)
08:21 mberends then is it not better that we specify only RAKUDO_DIR instead of PARROT_DIR?
08:22 masak mberends: we will specify both.
08:22 masak mberends: falling back to sane defaults if the latter is not defined.
08:22 masak former*
08:23 * mberends prefers latter, because proto is a perl6 installer, parrot is just a means to an end
08:23 masak true.
08:24 masak I don't mind either which way, I just have a personal bias towards Rakudo-in-Parrot :)
08:24 mberends support both, as equally as possible
08:25 mberends lacking either _DIR, grok it from the other
08:25 dalek rakudo: 7f8ba6f | (Moritz Lenz)++ |  (5 files):
08:25 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'move_split_to_any_str'
08:25 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7f8ba6fbb8c098666a6061d640f7fb6a051a5607
08:25 masak mberends++
08:29 mberends btw, it feels funny writing perl5 again, a bit like using Windows 2000
08:30 masak I have to scratch my head and add parens a lot after 'if' and 'for'.
08:31 masak and sometime's I'm all "these regexes suck. where's my AST?"
08:31 pugs_svn r25542 | lwall++ | name whackage of various sorts
08:32 Matt-W Morning
08:32 masak Matt-W: y0
08:32 Matt-W I've been having trouble with Form :(
08:32 * diakopter greets the world's other side from the dark side
08:32 moritz_ "come to the dark side, we have Perl 6" ;-)
08:33 masak oh, speaking of ASTs -- anyone who nopastes a Rakudo script that produces an AST of itself (using STD) wins ten internets.
08:33 moritz_ masak: shouldn't be too hard, after all run() is implemented in Rakudo ;-)
08:33 masak Matt-W: please share them, and we might help you or taunt you, depending :)
08:33 masak moritz_: enough talk. show me the code. :)
08:34 diakopter but the AST, parsed as a tree, or plain yaml
08:34 masak diakopter: whichever.
08:34 masak parsing in Perl 6 is easy.
08:34 diakopter run(), like moritz_ said (first)
08:34 Matt-W masak: http://github.com/mattw/form/tree/master try not to laugh at my attempt at an (incomplete) grammar, run test.pl, see the null PMC access, wonder why
08:35 diakopter moritz_: you can have all ten internets.  1 is enough for me.
08:35 masak Matt-W: ok. hold on.
08:36 * masak ponders whether to download Form via github, or just add it to proto
08:36 masak aw, what the heck. :) I'll need to add it to proto sooner or later anyway. :)
08:36 Matt-W as long as it doesn't encourage *too* many people to laugh at my attempt to use Perl 6 rules
08:37 Matt-W But I was getting excited that I had a grammar that might parse some of the simple text field types
08:37 Matt-W and I wanted to test it
08:37 Matt-W and then boom, null PMC accesses all over
08:37 Matt-W and that's after commenting out some other stuff that broke for no reason I could figure out :(
08:37 masak ./proto install form # FTW!
08:38 masak Matt-W: first point on the agenda: please put Form.pm in a lib/
08:38 masak it's the de facto standard.
08:38 Matt-W okay
08:39 masak Matt-W: re bottom_aligned_field and centre_aligned_field, I don't think ^ and $ work like you seem to think.
08:40 masak they match beginning and end of the entire _string_, respectively.
08:40 Matt-W yup
08:40 masak well...
08:40 Matt-W that string being the substring that was matched by the rule that called them
08:40 moritz_ ^^ and $$ are line beginnings/ends
08:40 masak that means that as they stand, they'll never match.
08:40 masak Matt-W: no, the _entire_ string.
08:41 Matt-W wtf?
08:41 masak IIUC.
08:41 Matt-W that doesn't make any sense
08:41 masak sure it does.
08:41 Matt-W wibble
08:41 Matt-W okay
08:41 Matt-W comprehension dawning
08:41 Matt-W brain inserted sideways
08:41 masak anyway, going to repr your NPMCA
08:42 Matt-W doesn't explain the null pmc access though :P
08:42 masak nope.
08:42 masak Matt-W: hm, you're getting it during compilation.
08:42 * Matt-W needs to think of these things more like EBNF grammars
08:43 masak which means that you've probably discovered something in Rakudo.
08:43 moritz_ rakudo: sub m(&f) { "a" ~~ m/<f>/ }; m(regex { a })
08:43 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "a })"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
08:44 moritz_ rakudo: sub m (&f) { say "a" ~~ m/<f>/ }; m(/a/)
08:44 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«Unable to find regex 'f'␤Null PMC access in invoke()␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Grammar;' pc 390 (EVAL_16:161)␤»
08:44 TimToady note that f is a method, not a sub
08:44 moritz_ why?
08:44 masak Matt-W: ah.
08:44 masak Matt-W: there's no Form::Format.
08:44 TimToady it's a method on the current match state
08:45 masak Matt-W: please submit a rakudobug.
08:45 moritz_ TimToady: so how do I pass a regex es a sub?
08:45 masak "calling parse on a nonexistent grammar..."
08:45 moritz_ rakudo: sub m (&f) { say "a" ~~ m/<f>/ }; m(regex { a })
08:45 TimToady you can pass a method name
08:45 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "a })"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
08:45 masak Matt-W: I'll see if I can submit a patch for you.
08:45 TimToady then match <$f>
08:45 moritz_ rakudo: sub m (&f) { say "a" ~~ m/<f>/ }; regex outer { a }; m(&a)
08:45 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in isa()␤current instr.: '!SIGNATURE_BIND' pc 2559 (src/classes/Signature.pir:377)␤»
08:45 Matt-W masak: so it's because I'm trying to get at it via the module namespace and that's not working yet?
08:46 TimToady though maybe not in PGE
08:46 masak Matt-W: I'm not sure that will work.
08:46 masak Matt-W: but I might be wrong.
08:46 Matt-W hmm
08:46 Matt-W it was kind of a guess
08:46 Matt-W but still, 'null PMC access' is not a helpful error message
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08:46 masak no, that's just wrong.
08:46 moritz_ anyway, the Null PMC access certainly is a bug ;-)
08:47 masak heh. when I fix it, I get another. :)
08:47 moritz_ rakudo: sub m (&f) { say "a" ~~ m/<f>/ }; regex outer { a }; m(&outer)
08:47 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«Unable to find regex 'f'␤Null PMC access in invoke()␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Grammar;' pc 388 (EVAL_18:160)␤»
08:47 TimToady I think parrot should just put out one error message: Something's wrong somewhere
08:47 masak rakudo: class A {}; A::B.parse("")
08:47 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 60 (EVAL_20:39)␤»
08:48 Matt-W TimToady: Polly lost her cracker error
08:48 masak Matt-W: there's your minimal demonstration.
08:48 Matt-W except that my grammar actually exists
08:48 masak Matt-W: yes, but not under the name you call it.
08:49 Matt-W Need to know if that's supposed to work
08:49 masak Matt-W: please submit a bug report regardless. :)
08:49 Matt-W yes, it's clearly handling the not-existing case wrong
08:49 Matt-W even if the not-existing case shouldn't apply
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08:50 Matt-W is it perl6-bugs?
08:51 masak rakudobug@perl.org
08:51 Matt-W ahah
08:51 Matt-W not done that for a while :)
08:52 Matt-W I'll fix the rules up this evening
08:52 Matt-W having now comprehended what you mean
08:53 moritz_ Matt-W: when writing rules or grammars you should start *very* simple, and test after each step
08:53 masak Matt-W: I'll leave a patch for you to merge in.
08:53 Matt-W I was staying simple... compared to what comes later anyway
08:53 Matt-W but yes, you're probably right
08:53 masak Matt-W: also, may I recomment putting tests in a t/ directory, and using Test.pm from Rakudo? :)
08:53 Matt-W yes I'm going to do that
08:54 Matt-W eventually
08:54 moritz_ the error messages usually aren't all that helpful, so the incremental approach is rather important
08:54 Matt-W I had a couple initially which I figured out as complaining that I wasn't using = properly
08:54 Matt-W had forgotten it's a metacharacter
08:55 moritz_ I usually quote all literals in rules, even if they aren't metacharacters
08:55 moritz_ at least when I write grammars
08:55 Matt-W I'm kind of leaning that way myself
08:55 Matt-W I think it makes things clearer
08:55 Matt-W especially with all the lovely whitespace we get now
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09:03 masak rakudo: grammar A::B { regex TOP { foo } }; A::B.parse("")
09:03 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_string()␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Match;new' pc 196 (compilers/pge/PGE/Match.pir:128)␤»
09:03 masak Huston, we have a problem.
09:03 * masak submits rakudobug
09:03 Matt-W another one?
09:03 masak Matt-W: yup.
09:03 Matt-W not a good hour for the bug stats
09:04 masak that was the one I got when fixing your first bug. :)
09:04 moritz_ http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=746193 "It's soooo good, that surgeons have no //g flag implemented..."
09:04 masak Matt-W: you kidding? it's a great hour. :)
09:05 masak Matt-W: I'll try to work around that one as well, so you have something to start from this evening.
09:05 Matt-W moritz_: :D
09:05 moritz_ rakudo: grammar A { TOP { <b> }; token b { 'b' }; }; grammar B is A { token b { 'c' } }; say B.parse('b'); say B.parse('c')
09:05 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub TOP␤current instr.: 'parrot;A;_block20' pc 186 (EVAL_20:68)␤»
09:05 moritz_ that also looks like a bug, doesn't it?
09:06 * moritz_ submits
09:06 Matt-W hmm I don't know how grammar inheritance works, but yes I think so
09:07 masak moritz_: just 'TOP'? not 'regex TOP' or something?
09:07 masak does that work?
09:07 Matt-W hmmm why does my bug report show up in rt as from 'matthew@' when masak's is 'cmasak at'
09:08 moritz_ uhm.
09:08 moritz_ rakudo: grammar A { token  TOP { <b> }; token b { 'b' }; }; grammar B is A { token b { 'c' } }; say B.parse('b'); say B.parse('c')
09:08 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«␤c␤»
09:09 * moritz_ rejects his own ticket
09:09 Matt-W oh
09:09 Matt-W heh I just spotted the difference
09:09 moritz_ rakudo: grammar A { regex  TOP { <b> }; token b { 'b' }; }; grammar B is A { token b { 'c' } }; say B.parse('b'); say B.parse('c')
09:09 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«␤c␤»
09:21 moritz_ rakudo: grammar A { regex  TOP { <b> }; token b { 'b' }; token c { 'c' }}; grammar B is A { token TOP { <c> } }; say B.parse('b'); say B.parse('c')
09:21 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«␤c␤»
09:24 masak Matt-W: found a third one.
09:24 Matt-W what fun!
09:25 masak rakudo: module A { grammar B { regex TOP { foo } } }; "foo" ~~ /<B::TOP>/
09:25 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_string()␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Match;new' pc 196 (compilers/pge/PGE/Match.pir:128)␤»
09:25 * masak submits rakudobug
09:25 masak oh.
09:26 masak Matt-W: seems you were right after all.
09:26 moritz_ rakudo: module A { grammar B { regex TOP { foo } } }; "foo" ~~ /<A::B::TOP>/
09:26 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: RESULT«Method 'perl' not found for invocant of class 'Match'␤current instr.: 'parrot;P6metaclass;dispatch' pc 299 (src/classes/ClassHOW.pir:153)␤»
09:26 moritz_ rakudo: module A { grammar B { regex TOP { foo } } }; "foo" ~~ /<A::B::TOP>/; say "alive"
09:26 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«alive␤»
09:26 masak exactly.
09:26 masak that's how a grammar in a module is called.
09:26 masak masak--
09:26 masak Matt-W++
09:27 Matt-W woohoo
09:27 Matt-W I would have been surprised if that had been wrong, how else would you reach into a module's namespace?
09:28 masak Matt-W: now your test.pl runs on my machine.
09:28 masak I'll try to push to github.
09:28 Matt-W whee
09:28 Matt-W I bet it doesn't match though :)
09:29 Matt-W thanks masak
09:29 Matt-W that should help with the evening's enthusiasm :)
09:29 masak Matt-W: correct. it doesn't match.
09:29 masak Matt-W: and the diagnostics suck because you're not using Test.pm :P
09:29 Matt-W one thing at a time!
09:30 Matt-W I did that this morning between getting up, making lunch and going to work
09:30 Matt-W Didn't have time for scaffolding
09:31 masak I understand. no prob.
09:31 Matt-W Maybe I'll move it over tonight
09:31 masak I sure hope so. :P
09:31 Matt-W and yes I'll stick the .pm in lib/
09:32 masak and the tests in a t/
09:32 Matt-W yes
09:32 Matt-W there's already a t/ on my local copy actually
09:32 Matt-W but it's empty...
09:32 masak (it helps us proto people to have things in their place)
09:32 Matt-W oh sure, sure
09:32 Matt-W make sure you write that up somewhere
09:34 masak Matt-W: oh, good idea. :)
09:34 masak that should go somewhere in the proto repository, and in a blog post.
09:35 masak my blogging is on indefinite hold right now, pending 'real life decrazification'.
09:35 Matt-W pfft
09:35 Matt-W blogging about perl 6 is too important :)
09:35 Matt-W maybe I'll dust off my blog and start writing about Form
09:36 masak that sounds like a very good idea.
09:36 masak yes, I should prioritize blogging more.
09:36 masak it's fun, and it draws people's attention.
09:38 Matt-W anything I have to say day to day for me tends to go on twitter
09:38 Matt-W so about the only things I blog about now are things I've cooked and concerts I've been to
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09:41 masak Matt-W: Form is a thing you've cooked.
09:41 masak programs are recipies.
09:41 Matt-W no
09:41 Matt-W Form is a recipe I'm still designing
09:41 ZuLuuuuuu left #perl6
09:41 Matt-W a thing I've cooked is the chicken curry I'm going to make for dinner tonight
09:41 Matt-W well
09:41 Matt-W a thing that I will cook
09:42 Matt-W and it will hopefully be a lot easier
09:42 Matt-W my perl 6 hasn't yet got to the point of 'put chicken in pan, add delicious spices'
09:43 masak it will, it will.
09:52 jnthn OH MORNING
09:53 masak I CAN HAZ A GOOD MORNING?!
09:53 jnthn BUT CAN YOU HAZ A CHEEZBURGER?
09:55 moritz_ cheezburgerz are overrated ;-)
09:55 masak not lunchtime for another hour, I'd say.
09:55 Matt-W two hours here
09:55 Matt-W i has a boiled egg
09:55 masak http://theurf.wordpress.com/2008/06/29/animals/
09:58 * Matt-W speculates on the prospect of egg curry
09:58 jnthn Matt-W: My local curry house claims to do one. I love curry, but don't really like egg, so never did try it...
09:59 jnthn masak: Nice! :-)
09:59 Matt-W jnthn: I went to a gig once where their (vegetarian) alto flautist was waxing lyrical about the egg curry she'd had at a restaurant across the road just beforehand
09:59 masak I don't particulary like the rest of that webcomic, but that strip is very nice.
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10:09 * jnthn switches to master and re-builds
10:09 jnthn It is rather nice having various branches and not having to change directory.
10:10 jnthn Just git checkout...which is fast.
10:10 * jnthn is slowly starting to be won over
10:13 * moritz_ has reached that stage about a week ago
10:14 moritz_ and since I have no internet access at home until March 3rd, I appriciate the offline working stuff even more :-)
10:14 masak jnthn, moritz_: what you're going through is so 2008 :P
10:15 moritz_ ;-)
10:16 jnthn masak: :-P
10:16 jnthn Wow, p6l is a busy place again these days.
10:17 moritz_ indeed
10:17 moritz_ I gave up reading all of the mails
10:17 jnthn OK, anyone got any high-priority tickets?
10:18 Matt-W { make $thing } please :)
10:19 jnthn Matt-W: Inside regex?
10:19 Matt-W yes
10:20 jnthn I think that's one pm has his sights on, or at least knows how he wants to do...
10:21 moritz_ jnthn: I've worked around the mmd bug I discovered yesterday, so that's not high priority anymore
10:21 jnthn moritz_: What was your workaround?
10:21 Matt-W jnthn: okay, I'll nag him instead
10:21 moritz_ jnthn: I just installed the sub version of split() in the setting as well...
10:21 masak jnthn: if there's any way you can fix [perl #62730], or wake the people who can, that'd be much appreciated.
10:21 moritz_ jnthn: it was a slightly different bug that only occured when the method call was triggered from PIR
10:22 masak apart from that, I'm not blocked by anything right now. just small workaroundable stuff.
10:22 jnthn Matt-W: Yes, you can at least get a better idea of when it might be done...
10:22 jnthn moritz_: Ah, the problem was that it wasn't being exported properly?
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10:24 moritz_ jnthn: no
10:24 moritz_ there was a pir sub with two params a and b that called b.'split'(a)
10:24 moritz_ and that caused a parameter type check failure (perhaps due to MMD gone wrong)
10:25 moritz_ even though there was a split variant that accepted Any as first parameter
10:25 moritz_ doing the same thiing in Perl 6 ($b.split($a)) worked, so that's what I did
10:26 jnthn masak: Hmm...that bug is claimed to be fixed...
10:26 masak oh, good.
10:26 jnthn I mean, at a Parrot level
10:26 masak that must have happened after #ps yesterday.
10:26 moritz_ but I don't think Hash.new("a" => "b") is actually legal
10:26 jnthn So let me try and do what Rakudo needs to take advantage of the Parrot fix...
10:27 moritz_ because it's a positional argument
10:27 moritz_ and Hash.new probably only accepts named ones
10:27 masak jnthn++
10:27 jnthn Is it?
10:27 moritz_ rakudo: Hash.new("a" => "b").perl.say
10:27 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«{}␤»
10:27 moritz_ rakudo: Hash.new(a => "b").perl.say
10:27 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«{}␤»
10:27 jnthn Oh, that's not dying epicly.
10:28 jnthn rakudo: sub foo(:$a) { say $a }; my $x = 'a'; my $y = 42; foo($x => $y);
10:28 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«a  42␤»
10:28 moritz_ rakduo: multi f($x) { say "positional" }; multi f(:$x) { say "named" }; f(a => 3); f("a" => 3 )
10:28 masak rakudo: ub foo(*%h) { say %h.perl }; sub bar(*%h) { foo(|%h) }; bar( :a(1) ) # this problem remains, however.
10:28 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "{ say %h.p"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
10:28 masak ooops.
10:29 masak rakudo: sub foo(*%h) { say %h.perl }; sub bar(*%h) { foo(|%h) }; bar( :a(1) ) # this problem remains, however.
10:29 moritz_ rakduo: multi f($x) { say "positional" }; multi f(:$a) { say "named" }; f(a => 3); f("a" => 3 )
10:29 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«argument doesn't array␤current instr.: 'foo' pc 83 (EVAL_17:50)␤»
10:29 moritz_ rakudo: multi f($x) { say "positional" }; multi f(:$a) { say "named" }; f(a => 3); f("a" => 3 )
10:29 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«named␤positional␤»
10:29 moritz_ after only the third attempt
10:29 jnthn Heh, wtf.
10:29 jnthn That looks wrong....
10:29 moritz_ what?
10:30 jnthn "a" => 3 is a pair and should just be a named parameter, no?
10:30 moritz_ no
10:30 moritz_ not all pairs are named
10:30 * masak lunch
10:30 jnthn Oh?
10:30 jnthn Synopsis ref?
10:30 moritz_ doit when => 'now',1,2,3;   # always a named arg
10:30 moritz_ doit 'when' => 'now',1,2,3; # always a positional arg
10:30 moritz_ S06/Named argumets/
10:31 jnthn Wow
10:31 jnthn OK.
10:38 Matt-W confusing, I thought
10:39 moritz_ not really
10:39 moritz_ rakudo: multi f($x) { say "positional" }; multi f(:$a) { say "named" }; f(a => 3); f(|("a" => 3) )
10:39 Matt-W but then since named parameters have to be identifiers anyway...
10:39 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«named␤elements() not implemented in class 'Perl6Pair'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 111 (EVAL_16:50)␤»
10:40 * moritz_ found a bug
10:40 moritz_ Matt-W: yes
10:40 moritz_ Matt-W: I wouldn't know which syntax to use to declare non-identifier named params anyway
10:40 Matt-W I don't think you can
10:41 Matt-W the syntax ensures it'll always be an identifier
10:41 Matt-W very cunning
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11:10 pmurias is a role "punned" once, every time it's used as a class or is the "punned" class closed and it doesn't matter
11:10 jnthn rakudo: class A {}; class D { has A $!a; method foo { say $!a === A } }; D.new.foo
11:10 p6eval rakudo 7f8ba6: OUTPUT«0␤»
11:11 jnthn pmurias: Once per set of type parameters.
11:11 jnthn pmurias: Roles are immutable.
11:11 c9s joined #perl6
11:12 jnthn (Though monkey-patching a pun is evil...I think it'd have global effect though...)
11:12 pmurias jnthn: shouldn't it be forbidden?
11:13 pmurias with use more <evil cpu>; required to make it work?
11:13 jnthn You already have to use MONKEY_PATCHING anyway.
11:14 jnthn Don't see a reason to forbid it if htat's in effect.
11:14 jnthn You've already declred you're being sick and evil up front. ;-)
11:17 pmurias is changing classes using the metaclass instance allowed without MONKEY_PATCHING?
11:18 jnthn I guess that'd be up to the metaclass?
11:18 jnthn But I don't know the answer for the default one...
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11:32 wayland MONKEY_PATCHING++ :)
11:38 * jnthn *finally* works out a fix for 62902
11:42 wayland TimToady++ for S28 edits :)
11:46 s1n joined #perl6
11:47 * masak thinks that the @F -> @_ change is a bit unexpected
11:47 masak but maybe I don't see that whole picture there.
11:47 masak jnthn++ # 62902
11:49 jnthn Well, ouch.
11:49 * jnthn sees random hangs during the spectests at exit.
11:49 jnthn I suspect the Parrot destruction ordering bug...
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11:58 pugs_svn r25543 | wayland++ | S28: Removed all the old stuff except a few bits that are probably going to be useful in
11:58 pugs_svn r25543 | wayland++ | other specs; these can be removed later.
12:00 s1n seems spectest crashed my box last night
12:01 pugs_svn r25544 | wayland++ | Added S28 link
12:02 jnthn s1n: Does that count as failure? ;-)
12:02 jnthn s1n: I'm seeing some issues here too... Seems hangs at exit etc.
12:03 pugs_svn r25545 | wayland++ | A few minor fixes
12:06 wayland_ masak: The @F -> @_ was presumably driven by a) the fact that @_ was no longer in use, and b) Larry for some reason wanting to get right of @F (I think he's managed to get rid of all of the named magic variables except those with twigils)
12:07 pugs_svn r25546 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Test for RT#62902.
12:07 wayland_ It's partly my fault, for requesting a shorter replacement for @F than @INLINE_WHATEVER
12:07 dalek rakudo: d912db6 | jnthn++ | src/classes/Protoobject.pir:
12:07 dalek rakudo: Make proto-objects respond more correct to WHICH, which fixes === on proto-objects and thus resolves RT#62902.
12:07 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d912db646a294e6d579a6b768bf283718c84fab0
12:09 pugs_svn r25547 | jnthn++ | Test that .isa can be called on a variable holding * (since * isa Any).
12:12 dalek rakudo: 23e8e02 | jnthn++ | src/classes/Whatever.pir:
12:12 dalek rakudo: Whatever isa Any, not Object (per S02).
12:12 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/23e8e0240ca2952fe93382f43d6f1b00ce09d821
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12:18 s1n jnthn: i consider crashing my computer while testing the language a pretty big failure
12:19 s1n as soon as i can track it down, i'll report a problem
12:19 s1n but i can't run the full suite in the mean time
12:19 s1n work&
12:19 pugs_svn r25548 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Add some passing tests for assigning enum values and using the enum name as a type constraint; we used to have bugs relating to this, but they probably went away when the type registry was added.
12:20 dalek rakudo: 798236b | (Moritz Lenz)++ | build/Makefile.in:
12:20 dalek rakudo: since t/harness now uses ./perl6, we should depend on it for 'make spectest'
12:20 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/798236bac9ae86135c6e6c3023f3c7a7a9e9d01b
12:21 jnthn moritz_: Ah, we use perl6 executable now?
12:21 jnthn That's probably the new issues s1n and I are seeing.
12:22 pmurias wayland_: what do you mean by "@_ was no longer in use"?
12:23 moritz_ jnthn: that's how I interpret the line "$ENV{'HARNESS_PERL'} = './perl6';" in t/harness
12:24 pugs_svn r25549 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] An un-fudge for min=, which I must have forgot to commit last week.
12:24 wayland_ pmurias: Well, it may've been in use, but in the draft version of S28, something I got from somewhere seemed to indicate that it wasn't.  But I could be wrong :)
12:24 dalek rakudo: bad46f7 | (Moritz Lenz)++ | build/Makefile.in:
12:24 dalek rakudo: [build] 'make test' should also depend on the fake executable
12:24 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bad46f7ddb41f3bd73d57e4496552161d84c7738
12:24 wayland_ Or maybe I'm just confused again :)
12:24 jnthn moritz_: Ah, OK.
12:33 jnthn std: my (*@) = 1,2,3
12:33 p6eval std 25549: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 34m␤»
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13:10 literal S28 says that Perl 5's @F corresponds to Perl 6's @_
13:11 literal that's not right, is it?
13:12 ruoso joined #perl6
13:13 ruoso Helloo
13:13 literal oh, nm
13:14 Matt-W hey ruoso
13:18 abra joined #perl6
13:27 moritz_ literal: why should it be wron?
13:27 moritz_ *wrong
13:34 literal because I thought @_ was just for sub args
13:35 ejs2 joined #perl6
13:35 moritz_ so the command line processor treats the main program as the body of a sub
13:35 moritz_ and passes the arguments in as @_
13:36 literal yeah
13:41 moritz_ rakudo: my @x = <k 4 u>; say @x[*]
13:41 p6eval rakudo bad46f: OUTPUT«k4u␤»
13:47 moritz_ pmichaud: to re-enable parallel testing we'd have to require (or ship) TAP::Harness >= 3.0... would that be acceptable? we could also keep two versions of the harness (which would be bit ugly...)
13:48 Matt-W oh *that*'s what the * means
13:48 Matt-W I like that
13:49 * Matt-W read the appropriate part of S02
13:49 moritz_ * means "whatever" ;-)
13:50 Matt-W yes I know that now
13:50 moritz_ actually it's very versatile and context-dependent
13:50 wayland_ Matt-W: I'm writing S28, and there's some stuff down the bottom that will need information from Form.pm
13:51 moritz_ *-2 turns into the closre { $_ - 2 } for example
13:51 wayland_ I'm currently editing S28, and would appreciate no edit conflicts at this time
13:51 moritz_ which allows the magic of using @array[*-1] for accessing the last element
13:51 wayland_ But I'm happy to either let you do it yourself, or help with it a bit later :)
13:53 * ruoso not being able to follow all the traffic in the list... I don't remember having so much trafic in p6l...
13:54 wayland_ ruoso: Are you planning to answer my tree question on the list?  It's in "Two questions; one about adding roles to classes, the other about trees."
13:54 wayland_ I'm currently only skimming the time/date stuff, but I'm getting carried away on some of the other specs.  Hopefully this should die down in a week or two :)
13:56 ruoso wayland_, it might be possible that I didn't see the questions
13:58 pugs_svn r25550 | hinrik++ | [util/perl6.vim] fix nesting of angle strings to allow stuff like :term<C<:nested>>
13:58 ruoso wayland_, Ok... I'm trying to catch up on things, so I'll answer right here...
13:58 pugs_svn r25551 | moritz++ | [t/spec] a few unfudges found by autounfudge
13:58 ruoso wayland_, the Perl 6 meta api is very much powerfull, and can do whatever you could do by writing code
13:58 ruoso in fact...
13:58 ruoso every code in the end must result to meta api calls
13:59 ruoso so yes, you can change Class::A to also do Role::B
13:59 ruoso it's just a matter of calling
13:59 ruoso Class::A.^compose_role(Role::B)
13:59 ruoso or something like that
14:00 moritz_ rakudo now passes 7024 tests
14:00 moritz_ nice number of the first release ;-)
14:00 ruoso wayland_, but that is considered "monkey patching", and a bad practice
14:00 ruoso you probably want to do something like
14:01 ruoso my $other = Class::A.clone(); $other.^compose_role(Role::B);
14:02 ruoso wayland_, now to the second question...
14:02 ruoso the reason of why you don't need a Tree role to have a Tree matching language is precisely the power of the Perl 6 Meta API
14:03 ruoso you don't need a method to traverse the objects
14:03 pugs_svn r25552 | moritz++ | [spec] set svn props on S32/*.pod
14:03 ruoso because you can just use the object methods
14:04 jnthn moritz_: I'm about to get us a few more too. ;-)
14:04 ruoso and you can introspect the objects to see if they can do that method
14:04 jnthn moritz_: Annoying though, make spectest hangs for me in various places. :-(
14:05 jnthn Or just $obj.?method which gives an undef if the method doesn't exist. :-)
14:06 ruoso I think XPath is a very interesting approach to that
14:06 ruoso you can think on each method you can call on the object as the different "axes" of the lookups
14:08 ruoso in YAPC::EU::2007 we even came to the realization that XPath is enough to do any arbitrary tree matching
14:08 ruoso wayland_, does that answer your questions?
14:10 pugs_svn r25553 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Fudge a dubious test that I'm about to make fail - the statement about what it tests doesn't seem to match STD.pm so I suspect it's wrong anyway. Review and discussion encouraged. :-)
14:12 pugs_svn r25554 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Unskip various list assignment tests that we now can parse/run thanks to supporting bare sigils in signatures, and add some for my (@*) = ...
14:13 jnthn I do think it sucks in git, that you have to pull before pushing, even if you did not change any of the files that are affected in what you pull at all...
14:13 jnthn ...maybe there's a good reason that I don't understand yet, though.
14:14 ruoso jnthn, I think it's to make sure you know what you're doing
14:15 Matt-W jnthn: subversion requires you to have an up-to-date checkout in order to commit, so it's no different really
14:16 Matt-W I rather like having it, it's like a safety latch so that you can at least pretend to know that you're not going to breakingly clash with someone else's changes
14:16 jnthn Matt-W: No, only if there are files you have changed that somebody else has.
14:16 [particle] joined #perl6
14:16 Matt-W jnthn: really? Fair enough. I still don't mind though.
14:16 dalek rakudo: a5bad9a | jnthn++ | src/parser/ (2 files):
14:16 dalek rakudo: Allow bare sigils in a signature, which gets some more spectests passing, resolves RT#63146 and brings us another tiny step closer to STD.pm.
14:16 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a5bad9a6bf4b1676c8e4a3199d3fe356602c26cc
14:16 dalek rakudo: dfe942d | jnthn++ | build/Makefile.in:
14:16 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:rakudo/rakudo
14:16 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dfe942d5790ee9e162ac0fa5613fdb3bd2e1ef58
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14:23 wayland_ ruoso: Pretty much.  Thanks muchly.  I may have some more questions when I actually get around to implementing the tree stuff, but I think you've convinced me it's not necessary for the File IO stuff -- maybe :).  I'll have a good solid look at that in a day or two.
14:25 skids joined #perl6
14:26 jnthn Does anyone else get hangs or SEGV during rakudo's make spectest at the moment?
14:30 pugs_svn r25555 | wayland++ | S28: Added some more variables drawn from other documents, and added some notes about
14:30 pugs_svn r25555 | wayland++ | confusing bits.
14:39 dalek rakudo: f9b9041 | jnthn++ | src/classes/List.pir:
14:39 dalek rakudo: Fix zip operator when there's a list containing a range on one side. Patch courtesy of bacek++.
14:39 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f9b90413a7a3bca69c3d715eba495a565bc01500
14:39 pugs_svn r25556 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Unfudge test for zip operator that now passes.
14:42 ejs joined #perl6
14:43 wayland_ everyone++
14:43 wayland_ coders++
14:43 wayland_ Goodnight all :)
14:43 pmurias joined #perl6
14:45 pugs_svn r25557 | wayland++ | Added Draft status to S31
14:47 pmurias ruoso: is monkey patching  a class using the metaclass object legal when MONKEY_PATCHING is not in scope?
14:48 ruoso I guess so
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14:49 pmurias ruoso: doing that on a punned class would have especially nasty consequences
14:49 ruoso pmurias, I think "use MONKEY_PATCHING" is just there to dehuffmanize "is also"
14:50 ruoso pmurias, indeed... but RoleFoo.^something wil l
14:50 ruoso gah
14:51 ruoso pmurias, indeed... but RoleFoo.^something will change the role itself, not the punned clas
14:51 ruoso I'm not even sure there is a way to get the punned class protoobject
14:52 pmurias you can get the punned class metaclass instance easily
14:52 pmurias RoleFoo.new.HOW
14:52 ruoso then you're getting the HWO
14:52 ruoso HOW
14:52 ruoso not the punned class
14:52 jnthn Question is, after declaring a role Foo { } can you then say class Foo is also { } to monkey patch the punned class?
14:53 jnthn role Foo is also { } makes no sense - roles are immutable.
14:53 Matt-W jnthn: you're making my head hurt
14:53 jnthn But if "core types" are roles *and* you're meant to be able to monkey patch them then I would think that this has to work.
14:54 Matt-W it's conceivably workable
14:54 pmurias ruoso: RoleFoo.new.^add_method(...)
14:54 ruoso pmurias, then you're adding a method to the new object instance, not to the punned class
14:55 jnthn Aye.
14:55 jnthn Since calling .new instantiated the punned class.
14:55 ruoso jnthn, I think you can Role.^add_method, can't you?
14:55 ruoso it won't change the classes where that role was already composed  into
14:56 jnthn ruoso: Roles are meant to be immutable...I guess it's hard to enforce...
14:56 jnthn I think as we have it today it wouldn't change the classes the role was already composed into in Rakudo.
14:57 jnthn But it could cause other weirdness.
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14:58 jnthn Part of me thinks that if people want to go screw with the metamodel and do stuff like that, we can just put a big "might have undefined effects" sticker on it. ;-)
14:59 ruoso I'd be ok with it
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14:59 ruoso but it could also be a flag for pessimizations
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15:08 Topic for #perl6is now  http://pugscode.org/ http://planetsix.perl.org/ | nopaste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | evalbot: perl6: say 3; (or rakudo:, pugs:, elf:, etc) | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ | ~300 days 'til Xmas
15:09 ruoso mildew: say 3
15:09 p6eval mildew: OUTPUT«3␤»
15:09 Topic for #perl6is now http://pugscode.org/ http://planetsix.perl.org/ | nopaste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | evalbot: "perl6: say 3;" (or rakudo:, pugs:, elf:, etc) | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ | ~300 days 'til Xmas
15:09 mncharity ruoso: is there a mildew status page/report somewhere?
15:09 mncharity btw, hi :)
15:10 ruoso there is a test suite ;)
15:10 mncharity um, something linkable?  an intro page?
15:10 ruoso pmurias could set one up on the perl6 wiki
15:11 mncharity be nice to have something to point folks at
15:12 diakopter erm .. I just noticed the "300 days 'til Xmas" in the channel topic... isn't that a bit misleading?
15:13 jnthn The calendar suggests not...
15:13 jnthn ;-)
15:14 diakopter heh..
15:16 mncharity1 joined #perl6
15:17 mncharity1 back.  sigh.
15:17 pmurias ruoso: i'm not really sure what should i fill in it that page
15:17 pmurias s/it/in/
15:17 ruoso pmurias, a summary of the implemented features
15:17 ruoso and known ceavets
15:18 moritz_ what is mildew, where to get it, what's implemented, what the next steps are
15:18 Topic for #perl6is now http://pugscode.org/ http://planetsix.perl.org/ | nopaste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | evalbot: "perl6: say 3;" (or rakudo:, pugs:, elf:, etc) | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ | http://Rakudo.org <insert mildew link here> http://perl.net.au/wiki/Elf |~300 days 'til Xmas
15:19 cas joined #perl6
15:19 pmurias www.p3rl.org/smop is the current smop page
15:19 mncharity1 rakudo, mildew, elf.  I've not been watching the commit or irc logs... any other activity?
15:20 Topic for #perl6is now  http://pugscode.org/ http://planetsix.perl.org/ | nopaste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | evalbot: "perl6: say 3;" (or rakudo:, pugs:, elf:, etc) | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ | http://Rakudo.org http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?smop http://perl.net.au/wiki/Elf |~300 days 'til Xmas
15:21 pugs_svn r25558 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Test for .parse on namespaced grammar.
15:22 pmurias mncharity1: STD doesn't have a web page
15:22 masak joined #perl6
15:23 ruoso pmurias, just add a page to the perl6 wiki...
15:24 dalek rakudo: 59fcc4e | jnthn++ | src/classes/Grammar.pir:
15:24 dalek rakudo: .parse needs to pass along the fully qualified name of the grammar to PGE. (.WHO should make this easier in the future, OTOH maybe PGE needs to change and take the grammar class itself, so it can handle anonymous grammars too). Either way, this resolves RT#63462.
15:24 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/59fcc4e8ff37414071cf72b0643fcc483858ac34
15:24 Matt-W jnthn++
15:26 mncharity1 re no STD page,  hmm.  anyone know TimToady's vision/plan/trajectory?  hmm, though rakudo/mildew/elf is something folks can run.  STD's main interest for folks not actually working on p6 may be simply its existence?
15:27 pmurias ruoso: my $how = RoleHOW.new();my $proto = $how.CREATE;$proto.^!how = $how; is the correct way to create a protoobject?
15:28 Topic for #perl6is now  http://pugscode.org/ http://planetsix.perl.org/ http://perlcabal.org/svn/pugs/log http://feather.perl6.nl/syn/ | nopaste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | evalbot: "perl6: say 3;" (or rakudo:, pugs:, elf:, etc) | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ | http://Rakudo.org http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?smop http://perl.net.au/wiki/Elf |~300 days 'til Xmas
15:28 ruoso pmurias, you don't need to call new on RoleHOW
15:28 mncharity1 joined #perl6
15:28 ruoso it's just $proyo.^!how = RoleHOW
15:29 masak mncharity1: yes, I think STD's main interest for folks not implementing p6 might be its existence. it's a nice proof-of-concept of self-hosting.
15:29 pmurias STD is not self-hosting
15:30 mncharity1 Feel free all to prune back that /topic.  doesn't have much space left for "topical message of the day".
15:30 ruoso not yet, at least
15:30 ruoso ;)
15:30 moritz_ maybe we should have a common page that links to all Perl 6 projects
15:30 mncharity1 idea++
15:30 moritz_ and link only to that, so that we have more space in the topic
15:31 masak pmurias: oh. I had the impression it was. well when it will be, it will be a nice proof-of-concept of self-hosting. :)
15:31 mncharity1 somewhere anonymously editable ideally.  else the risk of an n+1'th not quite up to date page.
15:32 diakopter well, there's SVN, which is fairly close to anonymously editable
15:32 diakopter pugscode svn...
15:32 moritz_ I'm currently taking care of a good domain name
15:32 moritz_ and then i'll pull from pugs svn
15:33 pmurias masak: it will be a nice production quality Perl 6 grammar in the even more far of future
15:33 ejs1 joined #perl6
15:33 pmurias ruoso: re lack of new were do we store the roles methods than?
15:34 ruoso in the protoobject
15:35 ruoso of the role
15:35 mncharity1 SVN != anonymously editable.  Want property of "person asks question", "given answer, and asked to update question page foo".  thus first contribution, slippery slope, etc.  SVN is... get cookie, svn sync (potentially looonnng the first time), etc.
15:35 hercynium joined #perl6
15:35 mncharity1 http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6 ?
15:35 mncharity1 http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6#External_Links ?
15:36 moritz_ that's not an URL I can remember
15:36 mncharity1 that's what /topic is for :)
15:36 moritz_ ;-)
15:37 mncharity1 http://tinyurl.com/am7akn
15:37 ruoso pmurias, SMOP tends to more of a prototype-based OO than plain class-based OO
15:38 mncharity1 http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_6#Some_section_name_here
15:39 mncharity1 p6 tends to more of a prototype-based OO than plain class-based OO :)
15:40 ruoso mncharity1, rakudo disagree
15:40 ruoso ;)
15:40 moritz_ but rakudo doesn't do much meta-OO yet
15:40 mncharity1 not that elf isn't completely fudging that.  hmm, perhaps need a name for the "the non-existent compiler which elf is intended to permit being written".
15:41 jnthn ruoso: Rakudo just follows S12, which says the standard metaclass provides a fairly standard class based model. ;-)
15:41 ruoso jnthn, yeah... I know... that's why I said that "SMOP tends to a ..."
15:42 jnthn :-)
15:42 mncharity1 would love to have more p6 being written... anything on the "you can write rakudo prelude in p6" front?
15:42 ruoso I tend to read that phrase in the spec in a more relaxed sense
15:42 jnthn mncharity1: Yes, you can now do that.
15:42 moritz_ mncharity1: yes, we have prelude now
15:42 mncharity1 ooo, link?  anything there?
15:42 jnthn See src/setting/ in Rakudo git repository
15:42 moritz_ http://www.rakudo.org/2009/02/rakudo-built-ins-can-now-be-wr.html
15:43 jnthn Or that. :-)
15:43 pmurias ruoso: why do we have a non-standard metamodel in smop?
15:43 mncharity1 :)
15:43 masak moritz_++
15:44 jnthn masak: Ain't the double frees damm annoying? ;-)
15:44 masak jnthn: you betcha.
15:44 jnthn masak: Do you get hangs sometime at exit too?
15:45 masak that's why I went cold turkey with the fakecutable.
15:45 masak jnthn: sometimes.
15:45 jnthn I do...makes me wanna patch it or something...
15:45 masak jnthn: uh huh.
15:45 pmurias the wikipedia page on self-hosting mentions Perl as being self-hosting should i fix that?
15:45 masak pmurias: sure.
15:45 mncharity1 re www.rakudo.org, I wonder if there's an easy way to make articles "here's the top, click to see the rest".  right now, its a blur looking like a movie script, and rakudo-built-ins-can-now-be-wr is nowhere to be seen...
15:45 masak pmurias: be bold! :)
15:46 moritz_ mncharity1: just scroll down on the main page
15:47 jnthn mncharity1: Also, we're hoping to move away from movtable type to something that lets us have some more non-blog content...
15:47 mncharity1 oh, there it is.  though I stand by "nowhere to be seen".  with hint from someone else doesn't count.
15:47 PerlJam mncharity1: on the right.  in the box that says "Recent Entries"
15:48 PerlJam I'll admit it's not prominent, but it's certainly visible.
15:48 jnthn masak: I've got an *idea* for a patch.
15:48 jnthn But it's more of a band-aid than a real fix.
15:48 pmurias masak: edited, now i just have to win the edit war ;)
15:48 alester mncharity1: I'm redoing rakudo.org in Drupal, and that will change a LOT of how it looks.
15:49 jnthn alester++ # thanks! :-)
15:49 masak pmurias: good luck. :)
15:49 alester Just need to convert the blog entries over and we can og.
15:49 masak jnthn: good luck. :)
15:49 alester you can look at dru.rakudo.org for the work i'm doing.
15:49 masak if anyone wants to do a mini-review of a newborn module... it's one of the nicest things I've written in Perl 6 so far. and it's only half a page long.
15:49 mncharity1 prelude note didn't make it to planet?  http://planetsix.perlfoundation.org/
15:49 masak http://github.com/masak/svg/blob/master/lib/SVG.pm
15:50 mncharity1 err, http://planetsix.perl.org/
15:50 masak mncharity1: what's a "prelude"? :P
15:50 mncharity1 http://www.rakudo.org/2009/02/rakudo-built-ins-can-now-be-wr.html
15:50 mncharity1 ?
15:51 mncharity1 hmm, what's a "confused" emoticon...
15:51 masak :-S
15:52 moritz_ it's prelude, but we call it "setting"
15:52 mncharity1 PerlJam: ok.  my main observation is that meeting notes create high frequency noise which makes scroll scanning the page unusually difficult.  at least for me.
15:53 PerlJam mncharity1: I agree.
15:53 pmurias catching a train&
15:53 literal masak: I just have one comment about the Pod in it. S26 defines semantic blocks(http://perlcabal.org/syn/S26.html#143710536) for NAME, SYNOPSIS, etc, that you might use (=begin NAME, =end NAME, and so on)
15:53 justatheory joined #perl6
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15:54 ruoso @tell pmurias there is a lot of features that can be implemented by having this more prototype-based OO
15:54 lambdabot Consider it noted.
15:55 PerlJam masak: does it work?
15:55 mncharity1 masak: re SVG, perhaps methods instead of subs to permit derivatives?
15:55 * jnthn fixes the MMD bug moritz++ found :-)
15:55 ruoso @tell pmurias and I do see the spec accepting the different implementations, I don't think it really needs to enforce one way or another... I think it can be up to the implemnetation to decide that...
15:55 lambdabot Consider it noted.
15:56 moritz_ jnthn: I think we have a ridiculus low number of MMD tests - I guess we have > 200 multi sub dispatch tests, and < 50 multi method dispatch tests
15:56 masak PerlJam: works, but no validation yet.
15:56 masak see Pod at bottom.
15:57 masak mncharity1: not sure that's applicable.
15:57 mncharity1 masak: pretty. :)
15:57 masak mncharity1: thank you. :)
15:57 PerlJam masak: yeah, I'm not sure why you're using a class even since you seem to be primarily using it as a namespace.
15:57 masak PerlJam: me neither.
15:57 jnthn moritz_: Aye.
15:57 masak but SVG::serialize felt stranger than SVG.serialize
15:57 jnthn masak: That looks like a pretty sweet use of gather/take...
15:57 PerlJam masak: but the reason I asked if it worked was because that's the first time I've seen someone really take advantage of gather/take.
15:57 masak jnthn: aye :)
15:58 * masak likes gather/take a lot
15:58 moritz_ the .comb and .split methods in the settings also uses gather/take
15:58 jnthn And if it works, well, wow. :-)
15:58 PerlJam (I haven't done so, so I'm not even sure how capable the implementation is)
15:58 masak it works.
15:58 jnthn It sometimes scares me what people manage to get Rakudo to do. :-)
15:58 moritz_ so that they automatically become lazy once gather/take is lazy
15:58 masak :)
15:59 PerlJam okay ... I *really* need to look at rakudo again.  :)
15:59 jnthn moritz_: Ah, damm...my fix seems to have broken auto-threading...
15:59 masak I hope that '[~] gather { ... }' will be optimized a lot in the future.
15:59 masak that's how I build long strings.
15:59 masak PerlJam: you do.
15:59 masak many people do.
15:59 moritz_ masak: strings are eager... maybe you want to construct Cat objeccts oncy they are implemented
16:00 PerlJam masak: anyway, your code is quite cool. masak++, perl6++, rakudo++
16:00 masak moritz_: I have no use for the laziness. I just need the low memory overhead.
16:00 masak PerlJam: dziekuje.
16:00 jnthn .oO( What language is dziekuje? )
16:02 jabira joined #perl6
16:02 masak jnthn: Polish.
16:03 masak should really be 'dziękuje'
16:03 pmichaud good morning
16:03 masak pmichaud: OH HAI
16:04 jabira left #perl6
16:04 mncharity1 http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/master/src/setting
16:05 mncharity1 and getting that github did not make straighforward :/  ("closed source mumble grumble mutter...")
16:05 mncharity1 :)
16:06 jnthn jnthn-- # multi dispatcher had a memory leak :-(
16:07 jnthn pmichaud: morning
16:07 moritz_ jnthn++ # discovering the memory leak
16:07 PerlJam jnthn++ # working on the dispatcher  :)
16:08 mncharity1 Happily, it looks like a lot of src/setting code will run unchanged in elf.  But far from all.  And I expect the portion will decline with time.  Hard to resist using language features.
16:08 moritz_ aye ;-)
16:09 masak jnthn++ # working on Rakudo
16:09 masak I've always wanted a Rakudo, so I'm glad there are people working on it.
16:11 mncharity1 When writing chunks of p6 for pugs, there was a key metric: it took something vaguely like a page of code before you had to work around a pugs bug.  With more code, more bugs to work around.  Which resulted in mid and large scale p6 programming being infeasible in pugs.
16:11 mncharity1 elf lets you write large programs, but accepts a very narrow and not always spec dialect.  So it'
16:12 moritz_ mncharity1: I wrote some of the setting methods, and I to fight only two rakudo bugs so far...
16:12 * jnthn smokes his fix and hopes
16:12 mncharity1 s hard to get started, but once you know the idioms, one can write large programs without gotchas.
16:12 jnthn moritz_: Was this multi one I'm hacking on now one of them?
16:12 mncharity1 any feel for what the state of rakudo is?
16:12 moritz_ mncharity1: I missed some features, but bugs aren't so many it seems
16:13 moritz_ jnthn: related, yes
16:13 PerlJam mncharity1: I think that the "not always spec dialect" hurts more than helps.  Same with pugs.
16:13 moritz_ jnthn: the other one was $str.index("0") not working, which I fixed myself
16:13 jnthn oh, moritz++ :-)
16:13 jnthn Did you add tests too? ;-)
16:13 moritz_ jnthn: sure I did
16:14 * jnthn is happy we broke 7,000.
16:14 mncharity1 PerlJam: given a working p6 like language, it would be straightforward to implement spec p6.  a working p6 like language closer to p6 than common-lisp, which maybe modulo rakudo, is as close as exists just now.  so, I emphatically disagree. :)
16:15 masak we broke 7k?
16:15 masak \o/
16:15 mncharity1 crowd cheers
16:16 pmichaud very nice that we broke 7k for the release :-)
16:16 pmichaud wish I could claim credit for it :-)
16:16 moritz_ pmichaud: have you looked at allison's patches for rakudo?
16:16 pmichaud moritz_: not in depth -- I knew that we would still be refactoring the build system a bit.
16:17 pmichaud being able to run from an installed parrot isn't a high priority for me at the moment.
16:17 jnthn pmichaud: About the release.
16:17 moritz_ ah, I thought it might be, prior to release
16:17 pmichaud jnthn: yes?
16:17 jnthn spectests are a big mess here :-(
16:17 jnthn For me.
16:17 pmichaud jnthn: in what way?
16:17 jnthn Since we moved to use perl6.exe for them...
16:18 jnthn I get make spectest hanging in various places.
16:18 jnthn And various segfaulting.
16:18 jnthn It's the same issue that causes double frees.
16:18 pmichaud do they hang/segfault if run from the command line?
16:18 jnthn Yes.
16:19 pmichaud okay, at least that gets us something to diagnose.
16:19 jnthn I've started using perl6.exe pretty much all the time now, not perl6.pbc
16:19 pmichaud yes, I've been starting to do the same.  Any suggestions or ideas how we might workaround it or fix it?
16:19 jnthn It's a Parrot level bug so it needs a Parrot fix...
16:20 pmichaud I don't mind going back to doing the parrot invocation.  That should be easier now since I've redone t/harness.
16:20 jnthn chromatic will probably go ape at us if we disable full destruction in the fake executables. ;-)
16:20 pmichaud I think it'd be more likely he'd fix the bug.  :-)
16:20 jnthn While running spectests I did just scribble a patch that may prevent the double frees.
16:21 jnthn I'm waiting for current spectest run to finish.
16:21 jnthn And then I'll compile and try it out.
16:21 pmichaud okay.  If that doesn't work, then I'll revise t/harness so that we can pass it a command to use in lieu of ./perl6.exe
16:21 jnthn It might be totally wrong. If it works at all, it's a band-aid...
16:21 pmichaud and we can provide that command from the makefile.
16:21 jnthn But it might be one that folks are OK with going in.
16:22 jnthn It is nicer if we can give people a Rakudo that doesn't segfault on exit that they can just invoke as "perl6"
16:22 pmichaud agreed.  I plan to keep "perl6" as the default build target, regardless of whether we use it for t/harness.
16:23 jnthn Also we have _loads_ of RT tickets where Rakudo gives a reasonable error and only segfaults because of this Parrot issue.
16:23 pmichaud I haven't looked at Parrot's new "load language" facility -- we might be able to get away with copying + renaming parrot.exe to perl6 and having it look in the appropriate place for perl6.pbc .  I don't know if that functionality has been implemented yet, though.
16:24 jnthn Even so, Parrot still needs to be able to clear up on exit, IMO.
16:24 pmichaud totally agreed -- given how long it's been a problem, I don't have a lot of optimism for an early fix :_)
16:24 jnthn The only reason it normally works is because we don't bother trying to free a bunch of allocated memory.
16:25 jnthn I've only heard it described as the "really hard destruction ordering bug" :-)
16:25 pmichaud and the "copy + rename parrot.exe"  is Parrot's current recommend mechanism for handling this.
16:26 mncharity1 moritz_: re current suitability of rakudo for large scale development, a proxy question might be, () could one take http://perlcabal.org/svn/pugs/browse/ext and, modulo updating to reflect p6 spec changes, expect rakudo to run them? () to the extent that they don't run, do workarounds exist? () how costly is it to find them?
16:27 mncharity1 for pugs, if they hadn't already grown up in the context of pugs, the answers might be  unlikely; sometimes; prohibitively.
16:27 moritz_ interesting question.
16:27 mncharity1 elf's might be  never; usually; somewhat straightforward.
16:28 moritz_ well, rakudo won't run any of them out-of-the-box because they all have version numbers in the module name, which isn't parsed yet
16:29 jnthn Argh...*one* test fail!
16:29 moritz_ mncharity1: and that's why I didn't invest more time in trying it out yet
16:29 masak jnthn: that's relatively good news, no?
16:30 mncharity1 re module name, that's an "workaround exists; trivial" :)
16:31 moritz_ I know
16:31 jnthn masak: I was hoping for a clean run. :-P
16:31 masak and a pony.
16:31 moritz_ but it's the No 1 reason for not just putting it in a shell script and looking at the fallout
16:31 jnthn masak: Oh, damm, more than one. :-|
16:31 masak :/
16:31 pmichaud we could probably update Rakudo's grammar to parse (& discard) version numbers.
16:32 * masak really would like that double free fixed
16:32 pmichaud jnthn: I'll go ahead and fix up the harness to make use of parrot.exe for now.
16:32 pmichaud feel double free to keep pounding on the double free, though :-)
16:32 jnthn pmichaud: Give me another 30 mins if you would?
16:32 jnthn Oh, depends if you wanna do release Real Soon Now.
16:32 moritz_ pmichaud: that would be nice, but I already know the next road blocker down that lane - s///
16:32 pmichaud jnthn: my fix will be able to handle both approaches.
16:33 jnthn pmichaud: Ah, OK, then go ahread if it's easy to flip.
16:33 pmichaud and no, I'm not doing release Real Soon Now
16:33 pmichaud today, yes, but not for the next eight hours probably.
16:33 PerlJam are rakudo releases going to have code names? :)
16:33 pmichaud PerlJam: I'm thinking of alphabetical colors.  Or gems/minerals.
16:34 mncharity1 re No 1 reason, find . | perl -i -we 's/use v6-alpha/blah/; print'  ?
16:34 jnthn pmichaud: Name a color that starts with x ;-)
16:34 PerlJam pm: the ruby release might confuse people :)
16:34 pmichaud I was also thinking of "Awesome", "Brilliant", "Charming", "Dynamite", etc.
16:34 moritz_ mncharity1: not 'use v6-alpha' but 'module foo-0.3'
16:34 jnthn Alphabetical adjectives aliterate awesomely.
16:34 moritz_ pmichaud: that's a bit too much if you ask me ;-)
16:35 jnthn We could pick one that fits our feelings about the release.
16:35 moritz_ you can start with "aquamarine", that's both a color and a gem, so you don't have to decide yet ;-)
16:35 masak pmichaud: Rakudo Accipiter :)
16:35 pmichaud moritz_: yes, I also thought of "amber" along the same lines :-)
16:36 mncharity1 s/(\bmodule\s+\w+)-[\d\.]+/$1/   :-S
16:36 moritz_ ;-)
16:36 jnthn A = Awesome, B = Better, C = Crap...
16:36 jnthn ;-)
16:36 pmichaud and, of course, we aren't limited to english words, afaic
16:36 jnthn Yay!
16:36 moritz_ YaY for Klingon names!
16:37 pmichaud but given that we're still on the early side of rakudo development, I don't want to put a lot of emphasis into release numerology.
16:37 jnthn Aye.
16:37 pmichaud Thus, just "a", "b", "c", etc. until we near 1.0
16:37 mncharity1 aquamarine lol
16:37 pmichaud or whatever we start to call "1.0"
16:37 moritz_ "1.0" ~~ Xmas ;-)
16:37 pmichaud heh, okay, so that's the 'x' release. :-)
16:38 jnthn Oh awesome that means we have 23 more months... ;-)
16:38 moritz_ that leaves us with 24 releases until xmas ;-)
16:38 pmichaud unfortunately, that'd be two years  from now, unless we got to semi-monthly releases.
16:38 PerlJam or more if you pick the spanish alphabet.
16:38 moritz_ I think that two years are a more realistic time frame than one for xmas :/
16:39 pmichaud anyway:  colors?  adjectives?  minerals?  make your preferences known now :-)
16:39 mncharity1 re "realistic time frame" unless things starting to work draws back a big p6 development crowd
16:39 PerlJam pm: all are good for me :)
16:39 * moritz_ likes minerals, colors or animals
16:39 moritz_ please no adjectives
16:40 * jnthn likes minerals
16:40 jnthn Out of those.
16:40 * masak too
16:40 jnthn Animals is kinda done quite a bit.
16:40 jnthn Only other one I'd suggest is cities.
16:40 PerlJam pm: japanese flowers.  :)
16:40 pmichaud heh... I wonder how far we could get using both minerals and colors:   aquamarine, bronze, copper, ...
16:40 alester How can I tell which of my commits have not yet been applied to rakudo/rakudo?
16:40 pmichaud pj:  yes, I did think of flowers and/or japanese words
16:41 alester Oh my, "Updated harness that doesn't rely on Parrot::Te..." makes me VERY happy to see.
16:41 mncharity1 half-baked low temperature+presure minerals, then moving down... ;)
16:41 pmichaud mncharity1: :-)
16:41 moritz_ alester: and if you want to make *me* happy, then re-enable parallel testing ;-)
16:42 alester "re-enable"?  How did I disable it?
16:42 PerlJam pm: elements in order of decreasing atomic weight
16:42 pmichaud PerlJam: I'd prefer it to have a sequence that is quickly recognizable.  But great idea
16:42 moritz_ alester: not you, but after the refactoring it stopped working
16:42 masak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minerals
16:42 moritz_ actually I think it broke before
16:42 alester moritz_: I was unaware.  Which refactoring do you mean?
16:43 moritz_ alester: "Updated harness that doesn't rely on Parrot::Te..."
16:43 pmichaud alester:  yesterday my refactor to eliminate Parrot::Test::Harness broke parallel testing.
16:43 alester ah, ok
16:43 masak "Rakudo Amber".
16:43 pmichaud (which I knew it would)
16:43 alester see, I'm way behind on rakudo/rakudo merging
16:43 pmichaud (but I'm hoping someone will submit a patch to re-enable it :-)
16:43 pmichaud the t/harness code is very straightforward, and doesn't have any odd dependencies.
16:44 moritz_ re "which commits where merged" - no idea. Maybe git-diff-tree can help
16:44 pmichaud pj:  elements in increasing atomic weight might work, though :-)
16:44 alester I think I have hosed some of my commits and want to restart my fork.
16:44 alester but don't want to lose stuff that hasn't made it to r/r
16:45 moritz_ alester: just do a new branch then that starts from r/r
16:45 PerlJam pm: I'm not sure that heavier == better though
16:45 moritz_ alester: and then cherry-pick the old stuff
16:45 alester moritz_: But there's stuff on p/r that needs to make it to r/r
16:45 PerlJam pm: though it could be seen as a move from ephemeral to reality
16:45 alester But I don't know what that old stuff IS.
16:45 * jnthn juggles auto-threading, multi-dispatch, MMD caching and method dispatch simultaneously...
16:46 moritz_ alester: yes, I understand the problem
16:46 alester So I don't understand the "just ...." part up there.
16:46 alester I can't cherry pick what I don't know.
16:46 moritz_ alester: maybe you should get commit access and merge earlier, to avoid that situation in future
16:47 alester that would frighten me at this point in my rakudoness.
16:47 alester I feel unqualified to do so.
16:47 moritz_ ok
16:49 alester But I appreciate the confidence you have. :-)
16:49 mncharity1 pmurias: btw, re speed of elf/YARE running STD vs gimme5, I ran gimme5 on a faster (especially disk-wise) machine, and it was there quite wizzy enough to be one's primary elf parser.  So I'm tempted to do defer YARE optimizations, and do a "for pure p6 and self compilation, there's YARE(non-existent p6 version), and for day to day work, there's gimme5 aka STD_blue".  maybe.
16:49 moritz_ alester: anyway, if you don't get any better replies here, you might try it in #git
16:50 moritz_ alester: I'm sure it's a common problem in git world
16:50 alester they've been pretty useless in the past week
16:50 moritz_ :(
16:51 skids re: release naming -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oasis#Notable_Oases
16:51 mncharity1 anyone who does p5: you might look at http://perlcabal.org/svn/pugs/browse/misc/elfish/gimme_elf .  It's the gimme5 parser inlined with elfblue into one single big p5 file.   cpan -i blah blah; wget http:.../mumble; chmod a+x mumble; ./mumble -e 'say 3'.  Instant elf.
16:52 alester My other big question: If I ignore something on, say, s1n/r, will I still get those commits when they show up eventually in r/r?
16:52 alester I would assume so, but I don't want to assume.
16:52 mncharity1 needs some love/attention.
16:52 moritz_ alester: if they are merged into r/r, and you pull from r/r, you'll get them
16:52 alester ok
16:53 alester even though I ignore the s1n/r version of it.
16:53 moritz_ yes
16:56 mncharity1 ruoso/pmurias: any feel for how soon smop/mildew/mumble might be fleshed out enough to be a third elf backend?
16:56 mncharity1 /me searching for "work on p6" motivation. :/
16:57 alester I can't wait to get the Drupal up so I can dump these tidbits of info into a page there.
16:57 moritz_ so long you can use the github wiki
16:57 jnthn alester: When do you expect to have it?
16:58 alester this week
16:58 jnthn OH AWESOME
16:58 pmichaud we can start handing out authorship rights, yes?
16:58 alester jnthn: You can start dumping stuff into dru.rakudo.org if you want.
16:58 alester I can set up rights for whoever.
16:58 alester oh yeah
16:58 jnthn Belgian Perl Workshop is this weekend, I'll be talking about Rakudo there.
16:58 alester dru.rakudo.org will become rakudo.org
16:58 pmichaud I think we should just go ahead and make that switch, fwiw.
16:59 pmichaud put a link there that points people to the blog for now, if needed.
16:59 jnthn So shiny new site *and* first independent release *and* 7,000+ passing spectests will be nice to report. :-)
16:59 bacek joined #perl6
16:59 Patterner German Perl Workshop is today and I learned that Perl 6 is named this way because it has IPv6 support in the CORE...
16:59 moritz_ Patterner: how told you that? ;-)
17:00 moritz_ so if you do the switch, will the old blog links still work?
17:00 Patterner Probably someone untrustworthy...
17:00 * moritz_ remembers that some of the German Perl Workshop staff are pretty anti-Perl 6
17:01 jnthn Aye.
17:01 PerlJam having rakudo.org being shinty and new would be good to annouce as part of the first independant rakudo release
17:02 PerlJam s/shinty/shiny/ even
17:02 jnthn alester: plz I can haz account?
17:02 pmichaud well, "shiny" isn't likely to happen for a couple of days.
17:02 alester jnthn: Yeah, email me
17:02 PerlJam yeah, that's the only problem.
17:02 * moritz_ has to run now, and hopes he'll see a shiny release when gets back tomorrow
17:02 pmichaud I can hold the release for it, if we want, but I'd prefer to make a release today.
17:02 alester nm, I'll do it in a few
17:02 alester I AM OUT OF POST-ITS
17:03 jnthn OK
17:03 jnthn Thanks
17:04 jnthn alester: You still want an email?
17:04 alester might as well
17:06 jnthn sent
17:10 alester anyone else wanting rakudo.org account?  Let me know what username you want.  It doesn't have to be a single word.  I'm using "Andy Lester" as my user anme.
17:10 Tene_ Can I have "Andy Lester" on rakudo.org?
17:11 PerlJam heh
17:11 alester Will you write completely brilliant and unerring prose?
17:11 Tene_ No, I won't!
17:11 alester Then, no.
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17:14 dalek rakudo: f43750a | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
17:14 dalek rakudo: A bunch of changes to multiple dispatch, resolving a memory leak per cache-miss call and fixing multi method dispatch to walk the MRO as it should, which resolves RT#63442.
17:14 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f43750a41b22549bfaffd0c9526312e2eb5edca0
17:14 pugs_svn r25559 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Correct and unfudge a multi-method dispatch test.
17:16 pugs_svn r25560 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Unfudge another zip operator test that the earlier fix also made pass.
17:16 jnthn moritz_: OK, MMD fixed. ;-)
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17:29 alester Are my commits showing up in anyone's FQ?
17:29 alester Or do I specifically have to request a pull?
17:31 jnthn Where are you comitting?
17:31 jnthn But people have tended to request pulls from what I've seen so far.
17:31 * jnthn is still working it out.
17:31 mncharity1 rakudo: /^<+alpha-[Jj]>+$/
17:31 p6eval rakudo f43750: RESULT«{ ... }»
17:32 jnthn pmichaud: Did you ever get to giving thingies generated by PGE the ability to have a loadinit?
17:32 mncharity1 rakudo: "-.abcjde" ~~ /<+alpha-[Jj]>+/
17:32 p6eval rakudo f43750: RESULT«Method 'perl' not found for invocant of class 'Match'␤current instr.: 'parrot;P6metaclass;dispatch' pc 320 (src/classes/ClassHOW.pir:161)␤»
17:32 jnthn rakudo: "-.abcjde" ~~ /<+alpha-[Jj]>+/; say $/
17:32 mncharity1 guess that means its a valid rx at least
17:32 p6eval rakudo f43750: OUTPUT«abc␤»
17:33 mncharity1 ah, thanks! :)
17:33 jnthn p6eval tries to .perl things if there's no output.
17:33 alester oh man, my p/r is way out of sync with r/r
17:33 jnthn But I don't know that .perl on a Match is meant to do yet...
17:33 mncharity1 I'd forgotten (again).  thanks.
17:34 pmichaud jnthn: not yet.
17:34 pmichaud (PGE loadinit)
17:34 pmichaud it'll happen soon, definitely.
17:35 jnthn pmichaud: OK.
17:35 jnthn I want to make .perl work on Regex ;-)
17:35 jnthn (So don't ask...)
17:35 pmichaud ...on Regex?!
17:35 pmichaud oh, you want to rebless the methods into Regex
17:36 jnthn I want to do that
17:36 jnthn But also I want .perl to work so I can continue hacking on Grammar::Generative. ;-)
17:36 * jnthn decided to write a Perl 6 module at last.
17:52 jnthn pmichaud: Do you have any thoughts on http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=63430 ?
17:53 jnthn It's not a bit of Rakudo I know well at all...
17:53 maerzhase joined #perl6
17:53 pmichaud I suspect 'try' is being over-eager in what it catches.
17:54 pmichaud perhaps we can get Tene++ to look at it; he's done a lot of the exception stuff.
17:54 mncharity1 Has anyone heard of any effort towards creating a regex engine implemented in p6?
17:54 pmichaud mncharity1: I'm hoping to do something like that for PGE.
17:54 pmichaud mncharity1: as part of refactoring PGE to handle longest-token-matching
17:55 mncharity1 neat.  any timeframe?
17:55 pmichaud if it happens it'll be in the next few months.
17:55 mncharity1 months, quarters, ... ?
17:55 mncharity1 ah, ok, thanks.
17:55 pmichaud PGE will be getting ltm in the next few months; whether it's done in PIR or p6 remains to be seen.
17:56 IllvilJa joined #perl6
17:56 mncharity1 nod
17:57 M_o_C joined #perl6
17:57 * jnthn looks forward to it - and all of the things that will come before it (Cursor and thus line nubmers in errors, and protoregexen)
18:03 Maghnus joined #perl6
18:05 gfldex mncharity1> nod
18:05 gfldex 18:57  * jnthn looks forward to it - and all of the things that will come
18:06 PerlJam pm: if you're going to base it off of TimToady's implementation, then p6 would seem to be easier
18:08 mikehh joined #perl6
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18:16 mncharity1 PerlJam: I believe TimToady said a while back that gimme5 wasn't designed as a general rx engine.  Else transliterating it would seem a nice task to advertise.
18:17 PerlJam sure, but the impedence mismatch is probably smaller from there to p6 than to pir.
18:18 Psyche^ joined #perl6
18:20 pmichaud Perhaps, but I've gotten pretty good about thinking in PIR.
18:20 Tene_ pmichaud: I'm in a productive mood.  I'll look at any issues you ask me to.
18:20 pmichaud that said, it's more likely it'd be NQP instead of Rakudo.
18:21 pmichaud Tene_: jnthn++ just left you a message on #parrot :-)
18:21 jnthn Tene_: Ah, I just...yes, that.
18:21 jnthn http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=63430
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18:27 jnthn pmichaud: Think we're safe to close the tickets about segfaults now, or want more people to test first?
18:27 jnthn (That is, just the ones aobut double frees.)
18:29 pmichaud jnthn: it's okay with me if we close them.  They're somewhat ephemeral to begin with.
18:30 pmichaud (ephemeral == "they tend to come and go on their own")
18:30 jnthn Aye, I felt the same, but could just see a lot of people re-opening them complaining it still segfaulted...
18:30 skids pmichaud: so it would be OK for a few non-STD hacks to support adverbs on ops to go into grammar, given that it will be getting overhauled soon enough?
18:30 PerlJam pm: build/PARROT_VERSION is a minimum requirement, not an exact requirement?
18:31 jnthn Whereas now there's a decent chance we resolved the double-frees...
18:31 pmichaud jnthn: it's okay with me if the tickets get reopened.  We're just making our best guess that we think the problem is fixed.
18:31 jnthn Aye.
18:31 pmichaud skids: it depends on the hacks.
18:31 jnthn PerlJam: I recommend exact, at least before reporting bugs...
18:32 jnthn There was a situation recently where people using latest Parrot with Rakudo had issues, but it worked fine at the PARROT_VERSION.
18:32 pugs_svn r25561 | lwall++ | [STD] express an opinion on C++ constructor brainos
18:32 pmichaud PerlJam: the configure scripts treat it as minimum revision, but we really expect it to be more "exact"
18:32 pmichaud the whole reason we have PARROT_REVISION is because we know that later versions have a strong potential to break rakudo.
18:33 skids I was thinking of getting just standalone %hash{blah}:adverb working but not the whole adverb-goes-to-the-rightmost < e= operator thing.  Just so :delete, :p etc could be written and tested.
18:34 PerlJam pm: what do you think about an option to Configure.pl that forces it to be exact?
18:34 pmichaud skids:  I'd need to see the patch.  The main issue I have with hacks is when they start spreading themselves throughout the codebase as being "the right way to do it"
18:34 PerlJam --exact maybe?
18:34 pmichaud PerlJam: do you see this as being an important issue?
18:34 IllvilJa joined #perl6
18:35 PerlJam not really.   Just a convienence thing.
18:35 pmichaud anyone who is using --gen-parrot should probably just stick with whatever it does.
18:35 pmichaud i.e., --gen-parrot manages the parrot/ tree automatically.
18:36 pmichaud before adding an --exact option I think I would go with making --gen-parrot always be --exact.
18:36 pmichaud i.e., Configure.pl --gen-parrot forces parrot/ to the build/PARROT_REVISION, even if it's later.
18:36 PerlJam okie.
18:37 pmichaud I would like to see that Configure.pl does a "make clean" anytime it regenerates the Makefile, though.
18:37 pmichaud I'm still encountering a few dependencies between the parrot build and left-over files in the rakudo build.
18:38 pmichaud or perhaps we need $(PARROT) listed as a dependency for a few more targets.
18:38 jnthn pmichaud: Yeah, me too.
18:38 dalek rakudo: f1f722e | (Patrick R. Michaud)++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
18:38 dalek rakudo: Bump PARROT_REVISION to r37000, to avoid double-free issues in fakecutable.
18:38 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f1f722edd9ee6cccfbf7cb0fbbe08188b7b8a382
18:39 PerlJam I was going to see if rakudo worked with a more recent parrot and i figured changing build/PARROT_REVISION would be the easiest way (and since it's easy to change back).  I was slightly surprised though, to see when I changed it back, "Parrot r37003 already available (r36930 required)"
18:40 PerlJam anyway, that's why I mention it.
18:40 pmichaud the easier way to try a more recent parrot is to just do "svn up" from parrot/
18:40 pmichaud no need to change build/PARROT_REVISION
18:40 pmichaud or more precisely:   cd parrot; svn up; make realclean; perl Configure.pl; make
18:40 pmichaud I did think about having   --gen-parrot=head   or --gen-parrot=37000 to go to a specific version of Parrot.
18:41 pmichaud I'd probably accept a patch that does that.
18:42 meppl joined #perl6
18:43 pmichaud jnthn++ # closing rt tickets
18:43 pmichaud okay, I need lunch -- bbiab
18:47 preflex joined #perl6
18:49 TimToady std: my $obj = new Widget(:legs(2|3));
18:49 p6eval std 25561: OUTPUT«############# PARSE FAILED #############␤Obsolete use of C++ constructor syntax; in Perl 6 please use method call syntax instead at /tmp/YKz8V5n5kC line 1:␤------> [32mmy $obj = new Widget([31m:legs(2|3));[0m␤FAILED 00:02 33m␤»
18:50 jnthn Ooh, shiny...
18:50 jnthn The Perl 6 standard grammar now flames C++. ;-)
18:52 mncharity1 could I get a reality check?  what am I missing?  three files, LazyMap.pm, Cursor.pmc, and STD.pmc.  put all three in a single file, each wrapped with {package main; }.  Cursor has a "use LazyMap qw(lazymap eager);".  so redef warnings, but otherwise ok.  Convert it to "BEGIN{ require 'LazyMap.pm'; LazyMap->import('lazymap','eager'); };", and no change.  To "BEGIN{ LazyMap->import('lazymap','eager'); }" and boom.
18:52 * PerlJam watches as a bunch of GIS students remove many GPS/GIS/Geodesy books from his office.
18:52 mncharity1 How hard can it be to combine 4 perl5 files into 1...?  Hours.  Sigh.  Let's do better in p6.
18:53 TimToady obviously the require is required :)
18:54 TimToady otherwise it has no clue what to call at BEGIN time
18:55 mncharity1 lol.  sigh
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18:59 pugs_svn r25562 | putter++ | [elf_h] Give a clearer error message when a file to be compiled is missing.
18:59 pugs_svn r25563 | jnthn++ | [t/spec] Test that subtypes are undefined.
19:05 dalek rakudo: 7abe283 | jnthn++ | src/builtins/guts.pir:
19:05 dalek rakudo: Some tweaks to subsets, making sure they get their own metaclass and proto-object and respond as desired to .defined (with false). Other than that no intentional functional changes - the spectests don't point to any, at least.
19:05 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7abe283f528014b6a47111eefd85a90dc584a50e
19:05 dalek rakudo: 3484985 | jnthn++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
19:05 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:rakudo/rakudo
19:05 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3484985276d05984975362512879a33a824a6f08
19:05 pugs_svn r25564 | lwall++ | refine previous patch to catch bare "new Foo" too
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19:09 dalek rakudo: f934f32 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
19:09 dalek rakudo: spectest-progress.csv update: 314 files, 7007 passing, 0 failing
19:09 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f934f322ff0ce83dafbf54432701908b47ae0097
19:11 Matt-W How do I pull changes masak made on a github branch he forked from one of mine?
19:13 IllvilJa joined #perl6
19:14 pugs_svn r25565 | putter++ | [gimme_elf] Parser plumbing connected up.  elfg5 compiles.  The inline gimme5 code is now actually evaluated.  Added LazyMap.pm.  But the mangle.pl+LazyMap.pm+Cursor.pmc+STD.pmc combined p5 isn't parsing, cause unknown (make; perl -cw test.pl).
19:14 Matt-W ahah, got it
19:15 mncharity1 :)
19:16 Matt-W it seems to be unfashionable at the moment
19:17 Matt-W but I read the documentation :)
19:17 jnthn Phew, back below 250 tickets. :-)
19:17 Matt-W damn
19:17 Matt-W I'll have to find some more bugs
19:18 Caelum joined #perl6
19:19 Tene_ bug: insufficient bugs reported
19:19 Ariens_Hyperion joined #perl6
19:19 preflex joined #perl6
19:20 Matt-W Tene_: exactly
19:21 jnthn 246 tickets is still quite a few! :-P
19:21 Matt-W yes but we know you'll get through those :)
19:21 mncharity1 <closers of bugs>++
19:21 Matt-W wouldn't want you to feel unloved
19:23 TimToady std: my $obj = new Widget;
19:23 p6eval std 25565: OUTPUT«############# PARSE FAILED #############␤Obsolete use of C++ constructor syntax; in Perl 6 please use method call syntax instead at /tmp/WN86ngdZxZ line 1:␤------> [32mmy $obj = new Widget[31m;[0m␤FAILED 00:02 33m␤»
19:23 * Matt-W likes the thought of C++ as obsolete
19:25 * jnthn implements a C++ compiler for Parrot that whenever invoked just prints "Obsolete use of C++"
19:26 jnthn OH NOES I FORGOT TO EAT
19:26 Matt-W OH NOES
19:26 * jnthn -> shops, to buy food, to cook and eat
19:41 alester jnthn: Did you get your email about yr accoutn?
19:43 TimToady can I haz a larry account?
19:43 alester On rakudo.org?
19:43 TimToady you sound doubtful... :)
19:44 alester No, just making sure you were talking to me.
19:44 TimToady ain't nobody else here at the moment
19:44 Matt-W I'm here
19:44 alester You just want "larry"?
19:44 alester I can give you "Larry Wall"
19:44 Matt-W but I can't get you an account anywhere
19:44 Matt-W well, not anywhere you'd find useful
19:45 TimToady I prefer to huffmanize my name, since I type it frequently :)
19:45 alester ok
19:45 alester email is larry at wall dot org?
19:45 TimToady bingification
19:47 alester you should have mail telling you about it.
19:47 alester it's at dru.rakudo.org
19:47 alester but will be rakudo.org once I move over the Movable Type blog entries
19:52 TimToady thanks
19:54 alester did you get the mail OK?
19:54 alester and log in and change your pw?
19:57 Topic for #perl6is now http://pugscode.org/ http://planetsix.perl.org/ http://feather.perl6.nl/syn/ http://perlcabal.org/svn/pugs/log http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo | nopaste: http://sial.org/pbot/perl6 | evalbot: "perl6: say 3;" | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ | http://Rakudo.org http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?smop http://perl.net.au/wiki/Elf |~300 days 'til Xmas
19:57 TimToady yes
19:58 jnthn alester: Yes, I got mine.
19:58 alester ok, good
19:58 jnthn Was just out buying stuff to eat. :-)
19:58 alester Darn you.
19:58 alester You and your pesky metabolic needs.
20:00 TimToady phone
20:00 alester I've thrown away my fork, and have recreated it.
20:04 alester http://sial.org/pbot/35243 Is this a good thing?
20:05 cas_ joined #perl6
20:16 jnthn alester: You probably meant @*INC?
20:16 alester I didn't do anything.  That's from a "make test"
20:17 jnthn Oh...
20:17 jnthn oddness.
20:17 alester it passes
20:19 * jnthn tries running it
20:19 jnthn alester: I just get ok 1 etc through ok 4
20:19 jnthn When running it as perl6 t/01-sanity/03-equal.t
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20:33 Tene_ jnthn: that output looks to me to be from the test *before* t/01-sanity/03-equal
20:40 alester Can someone look in their FQ and see that there are two commits from me wanting some love?
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20:49 dalek rakudo: 9f3d289 | (Andy Lester)++ | build/Makefile.in:
20:49 dalek rakudo: Add a perlcritic target to the makefile
20:49 dalek rakudo: Signed-off-by: Stephen Weeks <tene@allalone.org>
20:49 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9f3d2892d6ccb6f92a35772ab8dea37c4235f91e
20:49 dalek rakudo: f9cb35e | (Andy Lester)++ | Configure.pl:
20:49 dalek rakudo: modernize some code, and add error checking
20:49 dalek rakudo: Signed-off-by: Stephen Weeks <tene@allalone.org>
20:49 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f9cb35e0721f1462f545747ccc3182144862b40f
20:49 alester guess so
20:49 alester thanks, tene
20:49 Tene_ Huh.  The web UI for that is very nice.
20:50 alester isn't it?
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20:57 pmichaud git++   # definitely one of my better recent decisions.
20:58 alester heh
20:58 jnthn Tene_: Where can I find out about the Web UI?
20:59 Tene_ jnthn: presumably somewhere on http://github.com/
20:59 jnthn pmichaud: Yes, I'm starting to be won over too. On branching speed/convenience alone...
20:59 pmichaud being able to review things via github is much nicer than email diffs.
20:59 Tene_ I just went browsing around, found the "fork queue", clicked on petdance's commits, and clicked 'apply'
20:59 jnthn Tene_: Yeah, I still find it a bit of a maze there ;-)
20:59 jnthn Wow! I want that!
20:59 Matt-W how do I give rakudo extra include directories?
21:01 Tene_ There's an environment variable, iirc.
21:02 Tene_ PERL6LIB
21:02 Tene_ a :-separated list, like $PATH
21:02 jnthn bacek: ping
21:04 alester OK, now I have a bummer.
21:04 alester 9f3d28  master~1   Gravatar  petdance   Add a perlcritic target to the makefile  16 minutes ago
21:04 alester f9cb35 master Gravatar petdance modernize some code, and add error checking 16 minutes ago
21:05 alester those show in my queue, and of course tehy were mine.
21:05 alester so I have to ignore them, I guess.
21:05 alester but you'd think it would be smart enough to know that I don't need to merge them since they're from me.
21:05 bacek jnthn: pong
21:05 bacek good morning
21:06 jnthn bacek: In http://github.com/bacek/rakudo/commit/dee6b275c5c749cd327fd94d156cda12ea021f61
21:06 pmichaud my son has a math homework problem where we need to survey ten people on the following question.... so you guys are it.  :-)
21:06 pmichaud "What is your favorite snack: cookie, chips, candy, or cupcake?"
21:07 jnthn I think you changed => rather than =?
21:07 bacek second one for =>
21:07 jnthn pmichaud: Wow, at least two of those words I have to translate to British English. ;-)
21:07 bacek There is a test for [=>] (1,2,3), which should produce (1=>(2=>3))
21:07 jnthn I'll go with candy.
21:08 bacek perl6: say ([=>] 1..3).perl
21:08 p6eval rakudo f9cb35: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 1, near " ([=>] 1.."␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
21:08 p6eval ..elf 25565: OUTPUT«/home/evalenv/pugs/misc/STD_red/match.rb:117:in `block in to_dump0': undefined method `to_dump0' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError)␤     from /home/evalenv/pugs/misc/STD_red/match.rb:117:in `map'␤       from /home/evalenv/pugs/misc/STD_red/match.rb:117:in `to_dump0'␤  from
21:08 p6eval ../home/evalenv/pugs/...
21:08 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«\(1, \(2, 3))␤»
21:09 pmichaud rakudo:  say <cookie chips candy cupcake>.pick(1);
21:09 p6eval rakudo f9cb35: OUTPUT«cupcake␤»
21:09 bacek perl6: my ($a,$b,$c)=(1..3); $a+=$b+=$c; say ($a,$b,$c)
21:09 p6eval rakudo f9cb35: OUTPUT«623␤»
21:09 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«653␤»
21:09 p6eval ..elf 25565: OUTPUT«Unknown rule: infix_postfix_meta_operator:=␤It needs to be added to ast_handlers.␤ at ./elf_h line 2042␤»
21:09 pmichaud pugs: say <cookie chips candy cupcake>.pick(1);
21:10 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«cookie␤»
21:10 dalek rakudo: 766d5d5 | (Vasily Chekalkin)++ | src/classes/Range.pir:
21:10 dalek rakudo: Anonimize VTABLE methods in Range
21:10 dalek rakudo: Signed-off-by: Jonathan Worthington <jnthn@jnthn.net>
21:10 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/766d5d5d98221075672e2a3e8adc880de7c166ed
21:10 pmichaud need two more votes :-)
21:11 pmichaud okay, just need one more.
21:11 pmichaud we'll get the last vote from his sister -- thanks all!
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21:12 jnthn This fork queue rocks!
21:13 alester OK, I'm all pushed back to normal
21:13 alester pmichaud: cookies
21:13 pmichaud alester: noted, thanks!
21:15 dalek rakudo: eecbb2c | (Duke Leto)++ | src/classes/Complex.pir:
21:15 dalek rakudo: Add some basic docs to Complex.pir
21:15 dalek rakudo: Signed-off-by: Jonathan Worthington <jnthn@jnthn.net>
21:15 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/eecbb2c780aa32c59b80e53f7788d4e889a31309
21:19 dalek rakudo: e3f2de0 | (Chris Dolan)++ | src/builtins/match.pir:
21:19 dalek rakudo: Add POD for 'make' builtin
21:19 dalek rakudo: Signed-off-by: Jonathan Worthington <jnthn@jnthn.net>
21:19 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e3f2de0f261d2d0c28faa40fb4442413d9ea4962
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21:32 dalek rakudo: 0316676 | (Chris Dolan)++ | Test.pm:
21:32 dalek rakudo: Make Test.pm's proclaim return a boolean, like Test::More
21:32 dalek rakudo: Signed-off-by: pmichaud <pmichaud@pobox.com>
21:32 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0316676fe5a8ee68c1f464bbf165f3fe8f1854fb
21:36 dalek rakudo: 9fe6dfd | (Duke Leto)++ | src/builtins/any-num.pir:
21:36 dalek rakudo: Make log(0) return the correct result, -Inf
21:36 dalek rakudo: Signed-off-by: pmichaud <pmichaud@pobox.com>
21:36 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9fe6dfd0563110d4b7be2fd950254e138d817a7a
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22:52 frioux Does anyone here know if the term invocant was invented by perl?
22:52 frioux I can't seem to find any other reference to it
22:52 frioux (like wikipedia etc)
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