Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-04-08

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:19 skids Hrm, well, tried https, which would not ask for a password for checkout but would for commit, but it seems to not want to let me change the username to my commitbit username.
00:23 dalek rakudo: a2728b4 | pmichaud++ | build/Makefile.in:
00:23 dalek rakudo: Refactor Makefile testing again -- previous method caused too much rebuild.
00:23 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a2728b421d65ab98790e57497c8502cbf4471cae
00:29 bacek_ joined #perl6
00:35 diakopter usually if you just hit enter at the password prompt, it will ask for another username
00:35 diakopter for me.
00:39 rhr_ joined #perl6
00:43 * skids sighs in relief as the data he ripped off the bad hd.... mounts!
00:43 skids OK back to fighting svn.
00:52 pugs_svn r26118 | skids++ | Test commit (moritz++ for the bit)
00:52 skids diakopter++
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01:26 pugs_svn r26119 | skids++ | S07 flesh out generic array iterator
01:26 pugs_svn r26119 | skids++ | S07 typo fixes, TODOs
01:26 pugs_svn r26119 | skids++ | S07 add Coroutine section
01:26 pugs_svn r26119 | skids++ | S17 delete old Coroutine material, add reference to S07
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04:33 mberends @tell masak HTTP Daemon fixed, read DEPENDENCIES: perl6 must now be is your search path
04:33 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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04:47 masak salutations, gimel-camels.
04:47 lambdabot masak: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
04:47 masak @massage
04:47 lambdabot mberends said 13m 38s ago: HTTP Daemon fixed, read DEPENDENCIES: perl6 must now be is your search path
04:47 masak hokay.
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05:10 masak rakudo: class A { method foo returns Int {} }; class B is A { method foo returns Str {} }
05:10 p6eval rakudo 4abd89:  ( no output )
05:11 masak what are the rules with the above, overriding a method with another whose return type isn't the same or narrower?
05:12 masak is there a construct similar to this which restricts that kind of overriding?
05:21 pugs_svn r26120 | masak++ | [u4x/TODO] diffy iffy fiddly
05:23 Tene_ looks like 'returns' types aren't enforced in rakudo ATM.
05:24 masak right.
05:25 masak specifically, it's still allowed to fall out of a sub or method with any old value.
05:30 dalek rakudo: 241ae0d | (Stephen Weeks)++ | src/builtins/control.pir:
05:30 dalek rakudo: [die]: Set exception severity and type in die()
05:30 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/241ae0ddb7c925877e32e097ea7f892cfe708dea
05:32 masak Tene: we talked about eval-in-current-scope once, a possible solution for a better Rakudo REPL.
05:33 Tene I remember that.
05:33 masak Tene: I've had a different idea since then, which might be worth considering.
05:33 Tene oh?
05:33 masak something like eval-in-the-following-scope.
05:33 masak it might be a bit more general, and useful for other things.
05:33 Tene Yeah, that's pretty much what I was going to do.
05:33 masak :)
05:34 masak I'm not sure how to say "the current scope" in Perl 6.
05:34 masak maybe &?ROUTINE or something similar.
05:34 masak but the point is that it's probably better to have a dedicated scope for the REPL evaluations.
05:35 masak but you already seem to have realized that. :)
05:35 masak ...in which case I'm simply glad to have realized it too.
05:44 masak @tell mberends 2009/04/08 07:43:40 socat[28921] E execvp("perl6", "perl6", "httpd", "--request", ...): No such file or directory
05:44 lambdabot Consider it noted.
05:45 masak mberends: it worked yesterday! your fixes must have broken 'make run'. :)
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05:51 masak @tell mberends please ignore previous rambling, I seem to suck at following orders. everything works now. :)
05:51 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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06:16 eiro hello world
06:20 masak eiro: salut.
06:22 eiro hey ... speaking french also ?
06:23 masak eiro: mais naturellement.
06:23 moritz_ ne pas tres bien :/
06:23 eiro sans google translate ?
06:23 eternaleye joined #perl6
06:24 moritz_ a few years in school
06:24 eiro wow! i tought that english speakers who speak french too are rare
06:25 moritz_ well, I'm German ;-)
06:25 masak eiro: oui, mais ne tres rapidement. j'ai [forgot] le plupart.
06:25 eiro (i understood it become a pb for english and american people: they only speak one langage and everyone else speak 2 or 3 one)
06:25 moritz_ (actually few = 11, but I have to admit that I forgot nearly everything, and didn't learn as much as you'd expect from 11 years in school)
06:26 masak @mberends also, what sleep cycle are you on, sir? :P
06:26 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
06:26 eiro s/forgot/oublié
06:26 masak @tell mberends also, what sleep cycle are you on, sir? :) 4:33?
06:26 lambdabot Consider it noted.
06:26 eiro moritz_, come to Elsass! you'll practice
06:27 masak learning Esperanto ruined my French, sad to say.
06:27 moritz_ eiro: we mostly use UTF-8 here, your IRC client seems to send somethiing else
06:27 masak I could probably pick it up again, with some work.
06:27 moritz_ eiro: is that in ivitation? ;-)
06:27 moritz_ s/in/an/
06:27 eiro it's a shame for me: i live at 5km of the germany and never pratice
06:28 eiro moritz_, well: i never close my door to a gentle geek! everyone is welcome at home
06:28 eiro (i hosted a NY vim user last summer)
06:29 moritz_ eiro: I'll get back to you ;-)
06:29 eiro moritz_, damned ... i have hard time to configure my client via IRC ... everything is set to utf-8 :(
06:30 eiro moritz_, noticed :)
06:30 moritz_ eiro: I know that, it took me quite some time to get a decent setup working
06:31 eiro masak, i prefer to learn dead langages as latin or ancient greek vs esperanto: it helps to lean other langages
06:31 moritz_ terminal at home, then the local on the remote host, then screen, then irssi... very annoying
06:31 masak eiro: was the hosting-a-vim-user an example of extreme hospitability? would it be more generous to be hosting Emacs users, or less? :P
06:31 eiro (ok: it will be useless for swedish :) )
06:31 masak eiro: I've learnt a bit of Latin too.
06:31 masak eiro: no, not really useless.
06:31 masak the Vikings conquered England a while ago. that left some linguistic marks.
06:32 eiro masak, swedish is not a latin language ? indo-eurepean one, perhaps ?
06:32 masak eiro: correct.
06:32 masak but so are most languages around here.
06:32 eiro ok
06:33 eiro so ... i'll earn my salary now :)
06:33 pugs_svn r26121 | moritz++ | [t/spec] more unfudges
06:34 masak eiro: but in terms of "it helps to learn other languages" -- as one who has studied both Esperanto and Latin... well, both help you learn other languages, but Latin is hard. ;)
06:35 eiro masak, my wife is a high school teacher of latin and ancient greek
06:35 eiro (it helps)
06:36 * eiro concider to speak in latin here :)
06:36 eiro ( eiro is ancient greek word )
06:38 sitaram oesday igpay atinlay ountcay? :)
06:42 eiro sitaram sorry ?
06:43 * eiro rot13 your line ... it's clueless :)
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06:44 sitaram eiro: that was "pig latin", typically produced by taking the first letter, putting it at the end, and adding "ay".
06:44 sitaram I said "does pig latin count"; joke fell flat :(
06:44 sitaram http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_latin
06:47 masak joined #perl6
06:48 eiro wow ... i have pbs with very classical one
06:48 eiro so don't be rude again with me :)
06:48 masak rude? us? :)
06:48 eiro masak, no: i replied to sitaram
06:49 masak I see.
06:49 sitaram he meant me -- sorry wasn't intended to be rude; a play on "latin".  That's why I added the Wikipedia link
06:49 eiro sitaram, thanks for the link: i'll give it to my wife
06:49 sitaram apologies
06:49 eiro sitaram, it was juste a joke
06:49 sitaram ;)
06:49 * sitaram wipes brow!
06:50 masak I'm glad we got that cleared up.
06:50 eiro in france, when we don't understand a word or a sentence, we roll our eyes on the guy and tell him to not be rude
06:50 eiro (just popular joke ... i imagine that every nation have some)
06:50 * pmichaud rolls his eyes.  Another 7.
06:51 masak sitaram: I've now backlogged your joke. it was OK, I guess. :P I wonder what the Pig Latin equivalent to Greek would be?
06:51 sitaram aah -- we have something similar in India too, sometimes.  We say "why are you swearing at me" or eqvt...
06:51 moritz_ sitaram: a -> α, b -> β ...
06:51 moritz_ erm, I meant masak
06:51 masak moritz_: it's all Greek to me.
06:52 masak moritz_: also, I like the dots there.
06:52 masak they make it look so easy! :)
06:52 sitaram (like mathematical induction)
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06:53 sitaram prove it for 1 and 2 and say QED [ok I know I'm leaving out the critical step!]
06:53 moritz_ masak: would you prefer \ldots?
06:53 moritz_ or \dots
06:53 moritz_ ;-)
06:54 masak moritz_: generally, yes.
06:54 pmichaud rakudo:  say "\c[ellipsis]";   # just checking
06:54 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«perl6regex parse error: Unrecognized character name ellipsis at offset 8, found 'e'␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Perl6Regex;parse_error' pc 10552 (compilers/pge/PGE/Perl6Regex.pir:1323)␤»
06:54 pmichaud d'oh!
06:54 pmichaud rakudo:  say "\c[horizontal ellipsis]";   # just checking
06:55 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«…␤»
06:55 moritz_ ․‥…oO( … )
06:55 xinming_ joined #perl6
06:55 moritz_ rakudo: say "\c[vertical ellipsis]";
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06:55 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«⋮␤»
06:56 moritz_ 8454 passing tests; nice
06:56 mberends bonjour, #perl6! J'ai lu que c'est un matin Francais aujourd'hui!
06:56 lambdabot mberends: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
06:56 mberends @massages
06:56 lambdabot masak said 1h 12m 5s ago: 2009/04/08 07:43:40 socat[28921] E execvp("perl6", "perl6", "httpd", "--request", ...): No such file or directory
06:56 lambdabot masak said 1h 5m 17s ago: please ignore previous rambling, I seem to suck at following orders. everything works now. :)
06:56 lambdabot masak said 30m 7s ago: also, what sleep cycle are you on, sir? :) 4:33?
06:57 masak mberends: ...which means you've been asleep for at most 4.5 hours. :)
06:57 mberends sleep, do people still do that?
06:57 masak not that it's any of my business. just impressed.
06:57 masak I thought I was the one with the funny sleep habits. :)
06:58 mberends actually, I'm awake 5 hours, slept 5 hours before that ;)
06:58 * mberends worries about Oslo timings
07:02 mberends masak: after we conque^H^H^H^H^H^Hfinish our projects, we should re-implement time.
07:03 masak mberends: I agree. I have a local git repo with some early timespace implementations.
07:03 masak mberends: but they're in Perl 7.
07:04 mberends P2TP6A?
07:04 masak 哈哈
07:05 masak "internal joke" meter is pushing against that little knob which keeps it from looping around.
07:06 masak s/internal/inside/
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07:07 pmichaud afk # sleep
07:10 TimToady eiro: which meaning of εἴρω?  to tie, or to say?
07:10 moritz_ I thought tie() was gone? :-)
07:19 Matt-W Morning
07:19 masak Matt-W: good morrow, sir.
07:20 Matt-W Hi masak
07:23 eiro TimToady, in fact my wife surnamed me 'eromai' ( 'i ask to myself' or 'i ironically ask' )
07:24 eiro it became ero ... which has no sense
07:24 rgs heauton eromoumenos ?
07:24 eiro i added the i ... now it mean: to say
07:26 eiro rgs, i don't understood :-) (i actually don't speak greek: my wife does) and i begun to learn latin
07:26 rgs I don't guarantee this is good greek
07:27 rgs that would be "the one who makes himself loquacious"
07:28 mberends would that be 'grok greek' here ?
07:28 eiro heauton : 'self'
07:28 eiro that's the only part i read :)
07:29 masak all those /path/to/my/rakudo metasyntactic paths meant to be replaced -- I think we should standardize on /some/weird/place/rakudo. it stands out a bit more.
07:29 moritz_ search for define:loquacious with google and see how different the explanations are
07:29 moritz_ chatty: full of trivial conversation; "kept from her housework by gabby neighbors"
07:29 moritz_ Fluency (also called volubility and loquaciousness) is the property of a person or of a system that delivers information quickly and with expertise.
07:29 moritz_ those don't sound equivalent, to me :-)
07:31 rgs we're in a semantic field where IRC nicknames can be easily chosen
07:33 eiro :-)
07:33 eiro it's just the way my wife call me :-)
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07:51 masak rakudo: say 24.reverse
07:51 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed for $delimiter in call to split␤current instr.: 'die' pc 15932 (src/builtins/control.pir:204)␤»
07:52 * moritz_ sense a bug
07:53 masak I was just wondering if it was my having too high expectations again, or whether it's acutally a bug.
07:53 masak s/ut/tu/
07:54 * moritz_ wonders if 24.reverse should pick the List.reverse or the Str.reverse
07:55 masak moritz_: it's a scalar. it should pick the Str.reverse, IMO.
07:55 moritz_ maybe Str.reverse should be named Str.mirror
07:55 masak :)
07:55 masak seems a bit arbritary. might as well have been List.mirror and Str.reverse, no?
07:56 moritz_ not quite
07:56 moritz_ for composed characters a "mirror" describes more accurately what happens to the string
07:56 moritz_ IMHO
07:57 moritz_ rakudo: say "A\c[combining accent accute]"
07:57 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«perl6regex parse error: Unrecognized character name combining accent accute at offset 9, found 'c'␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Perl6Regex;parse_error' pc 10552 (compilers/pge/PGE/Perl6Regex.pir:1323)␤»
07:57 moritz_ rakudo: say "A\c[combining accent acute]"
07:57 masak "bob".mirror -> "dod" :)
07:57 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«perl6regex parse error: Unrecognized character name combining accent acute at offset 9, found 'c'␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Perl6Regex;parse_error' pc 10552 (compilers/pge/PGE/Perl6Regex.pir:1323)␤»
07:57 moritz_ rakudo: say "A\c[combining accent grave]"
07:57 Kyosuke_Kiryu joined #perl6
07:57 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«perl6regex parse error: Unrecognized character name combining accent grave at offset 9, found 'c'␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Perl6Regex;parse_error' pc 10552 (compilers/pge/PGE/Perl6Regex.pir:1323)␤»
07:58 moritz_ rakudo: say "A\c[combining grave accent]"
07:58 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«À␤»
07:58 moritz_ rakudo: say "A\c[combining grave accent]".reverse
07:58 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«̀A␤»
07:58 * moritz_ has to run, bye
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08:11 masak in the interests of release-early: http://github.com/masak/pun/
08:13 jedai joined #perl6
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08:23 moritz_ back
08:23 moritz_ once again we've seen that rakudo works on the codepoint level by deffault, not on the grapheme level
08:31 masak moritz_: you're saying that's a submittable rakudobug?
08:32 moritz_ masak: it's a known TODO, and I guess we even have a ticket for that
08:32 masak oh, ok.
08:34 moritz_ I'll have a few hours of (constantly interrupted) hacking time now/today - anyone needs tests for a specific topic?
08:35 masak moritz_: perhaps IO.ins and IO.outs? it's the only thing that comes to mind right now.
08:38 moritz_ masak: thanks for the suggestion
08:38 masak moritz_: I saw you add a few tests for the former.
08:38 moritz_ aye
08:39 masak moritz_: would be nice to also test for reading in list context; I didn't see a test for that when skimming it.
08:39 masak just a suggestion.
08:39 moritz_ ok
08:39 moritz_ I think I'll do typed arrays first, then come back to IO
08:39 masak moritz_++
08:44 moritz_ rakudo: my Int @a = 3..4; @a.push(3); say @a.perl
08:44 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«No applicable methods.␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;P6metaclass;dispatch' pc 447 (src/classes/ClassHOW.pir:93)␤»
08:44 moritz_ tests++
08:44 moritz_ masak: I'l ticket it when I commit/push the test
08:44 masak goodie.
08:58 pugs_svn r26122 | moritz++ | [t/spec] add tests for typed arrays
09:00 pugs_svn r26123 | moritz++ | [t/spec] why do I always forget these svn props when adding new files?
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09:10 pugs_svn r26124 | moritz++ | [t/spec] basic tests for dispatch on typed arrays
09:11 moritz_ rakudo: my @a of Int; say @a.of
09:11 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Object␤»
09:11 moritz_ rakudo: my Int @a ; say @a.of
09:12 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Int␤»
09:12 masak heh.
09:16 pugs_svn r26125 | moritz++ | [t/spec] add (failing) tests for dispatch on typed hashes
09:19 masak moritz_: can I submit the above two p6eval exchanges as a rakudobug? or is that one already in there?
09:20 moritz_ masak: I'm doing a few tickets now anyway, I'll take care
09:24 masak hokay.
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10:10 masak lunch &
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10:33 jnthn hi all
10:33 jnthn Ooh, new tests. Yay. :-)
10:33 jnthn rakudo: my @a; @a.push(42); say @a.perl
10:33 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«[42]␤»
10:33 jnthn rakudo: my Int @a; @a.push(42); say @a.perl
10:33 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«No applicable methods.␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;P6metaclass;dispatch' pc 447 (src/classes/ClassHOW.pir:93)␤»
10:34 jnthn rakudo: my @a; sub foo(Array $x) { say "ok" }; foo(@a)
10:34 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«ok␤»
10:34 jnthn rakudo: my Int @a; sub foo(Array $x) { say "ok" }; foo(@a)
10:34 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«ok␤»
10:35 jnthn OK, we're just getting screwed over by Parrot's multiple dispatcher.
10:48 jnthn rakudo: my Int @a; sub foo(List $x) { say "ok" }; foo(@a)
10:48 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«ok␤»
10:54 jnthn aw arse, the Rakudo makefile is br0ked on Windows.
10:55 payload1 joined #perl6
10:55 jnthn makefilecheck: Makefile
10:55 jnthn #@$(PERL) -e 'die "Makefile is out of date... try re-running Configure.pl\n" if (-M "build\Makefile.in" < -M "Makefile");'
10:55 jnthn Commenting out that line helps.
10:56 jnthn oh, probably use of single quotes doens't work on win3
10:56 jnthn 2
11:01 jnthn oh, and it was already fixed in latest...
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11:20 LylePerl Hi All
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11:27 masak joined #perl6
11:32 jnthn S09-typed-arrays\arrays.t has invalid plan
11:32 jnthn Will fix later, if nobody beats me to it...lunch now
11:33 jnthn (btw currently with local fixes 22 out 29 pass)
11:35 LylePerl I've figured the problem with getting november to run (at least one of them)
11:35 masak nice.
11:35 LylePerl it's failing at compile stage
11:35 masak interesting.
11:35 masak but not when you run from the command line?
11:36 LylePerl It's not finding the modules
11:36 LylePerl from the command line I've set perl6lib, but not globally
11:36 LylePerl I'm trying to update INC from the script in a BEGIN block
11:36 LylePerl push ( @INC, 'c:/htdocs/cgi-bin/lib' );
11:36 masak that would indeed explain it.
11:37 LylePerl but I get the error "Scope not found for PAST::Var '@INC'
11:38 jnthn try @*INC
11:38 LylePerl ok
11:43 masak oh right!
11:43 payload1 joined #perl6
11:43 masak sorry, was inattentive. was fixing the Mac OS X Security Update Perl 5 breakage that finally hit me.
11:44 LylePerl bingo :)
11:45 masak mberends: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2009-04-08#i_1047867 -- we should have one of those lines in our ideal Perl 6 project Makefile. :)
11:55 pugs_svn r26126 | masak++ | corrected plan in t/spec/S09-typed-arrays/arrays.t
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11:57 mberends masak: excellent idea
11:58 masak mberends: also, I'm thinking of putting together a table of Well-Thought-Out-Practices against Perl 6 projects.
11:59 masak not sure whether it'd be feasible to do automatically, though.
11:59 mberends sounds like a job for Don Knuth ;)
11:59 masak ;)
12:00 mberends create a stub, and let the community fill in the details
12:01 masak mberends: well, that's one way to do it. in that case, we'd want it on a wiki.
12:01 masak but I'm thinking maybe we can get away with Less Work.
12:01 masak for example, proto can download all Perl 6 projects nowadays.
12:01 masak ./proto install all
12:02 mberends the little eeePC will groan under that one
12:02 masak :)
12:03 pmichaud good morning #perl6
12:03 masak use with caution. 's all.
12:03 masak pmichaud: oh hai
12:03 masak so it'd be conceivable to create a module that used proto to dump all the projects in one directory, and then performed a series of automated tests on them.
12:04 mberends good am, pm
12:04 mberends masak: that would be gr8
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12:05 masak mberends: I just have to remember to start simple.
12:05 masak one project, one well-thought-out practice.
12:05 masak and then expand from that.
12:06 jnthn morning pm
12:07 masak hm, Kwalitee uses a positive scale, I think. we could use penalty points instead and call it Penaltee. :P
12:07 jnthn rakudo: multi foo($x) { }; foo()
12:07 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'foo'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 64 (EVAL_16:40)␤»
12:08 moritz_ jnthn: I've got some tickets for
12:08 jnthn rakudo: class A { multi method foo() { } }; A.new.foo(42)
12:08 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Could not locate a method 'foo' to invoke on class 'A'.␤current instr.: 'die' pc 15932 (src/builtins/control.pir:204)␤»
12:08 LylePerl Still doesn't work on IIS
12:08 moritz_ rakudo: my @x of Int; say @x.of
12:08 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Object␤»
12:09 moritz_ rakudo: my Int @x; say @x.of
12:09 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Int␤»
12:09 LylePerl Although not surprising considering hello world doesn't work
12:09 masak LylePerl: :)
12:09 masak LylePerl: I appreciate your efforts in this.
12:09 LylePerl With november on IIS I'm getting a different error:-
12:09 jnthn moritz_: OK, great. :_)
12:09 LylePerl This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
12:09 LylePerl src\io\api.c:233: failed assertion 'pmc'
12:09 masak funny error.
12:09 jnthn moritz_: There's still lots of bits to fix up yet.
12:09 LylePerl encase anyone knows what that means?
12:10 masak LylePerl: that last part sounded like a parrot.
12:10 jnthn OK, Slovak class time. Back later.
12:10 moritz_ jnthn: I wrote some tests for you, t/spec/S09-typed-arrays/arrays.t
12:10 moritz_ have fun ;-)
12:10 masak LylePerl: now we only need to isolate it.
12:10 LylePerl masak: I'll update the november group with my last Vista instructions to get it working with apache
12:10 pmichaud jnthn: both Tene++ and I had some difficulty grabbing annotations out of exceptions
12:10 jnthn moritz_: Yes, I have 22 out of 29 of them passing now. But I broke a couple of others along the way... :-(
12:10 masak LylePerl: excellent.
12:10 LylePerl masak: That would make sense
12:11 jnthn pmichaud: Odd. Did you look at the annotations tests for examples?
12:11 pmichaud after your class... any clues you can provide would be helpful :-)
12:11 jnthn Sure.
12:11 pmichaud yes, did look at the tests
12:11 LylePerl Looks like I'll have to learn parrot :)
12:11 jnthn pmichaud: OK.
12:11 pmichaud I'll put together a patch with what I had thus far
12:11 masak LylePerl: me too. :)
12:11 jnthn pmichaud: More failing Parrot tests that pinpoint the issue could also be nice, if you can reduce it to that.
12:12 jnthn pmichaud: But don't worry if not.
12:12 jnthn Anyway, idem studovat. :-)
12:12 masak LylePerl: but the principle is the same as for any software bug: remove as many parts as you can to pinpoint the error.
12:12 mberends masak: Good Practices: same idea. in doing Pod Parser v2, I'm trying to learn from previous mistakes. more tests, more correct structure up front. Possibly your Test::ix as well.
12:13 masak mberends: wow, you're the first person to utter the name of that module. :)
12:13 moritz_ rakudo: multi f(Int %h) { say 'int' }; multi f(Str %h) { say 'str' }; my Int %h = a => 3; f(%h)
12:13 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'f'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 133 (EVAL_17:53)␤»
12:13 masak mberends: it sends a wink of appreciation to you.
12:13 pmichaud (but otherwise, annotations appear to be available now -- see src/gen_actions.pir   and Test.pir in Rakudo for examples :-)
12:14 moritz_ pmichaud: great
12:14 mberends ok, i'll use it ;)
12:14 masak mberends: I haven't blogged about Test::Ix, but I suppose you've discovered the script that goes with it?
12:14 masak in the bin/ dir of Druid.
12:15 LylePerl masak: That's difficult with the simple hello world script
12:16 masak LylePerl: why?
12:16 LylePerl masak: because it's as bare bones as it can be
12:16 masak LylePerl: well, yes and no.
12:16 LylePerl masak: I'm guessing IIS invokes processes slightly differently
12:16 masak LylePerl: is it in Perl 6?
12:17 LylePerl masak: yes
12:17 masak LylePerl: in that case, the level below would be PIR.
12:17 LylePerl masak: I see :/
12:17 masak if you can produce the error in pure PIR, the Parrot people will be able to help you better.
12:17 LylePerl sounds like a plan
12:17 LylePerl thanks for your help
12:17 masak LylePerl: Rakudo can output to PIR instead of running a script, if you ask it to.
12:18 masak perl6 --target=PIR file
12:18 pmichaud afk, shuttling kids to school.
12:19 LylePerl I'd better get back to work. Thanks for your help. I'll let you know how I get on with parrot and PIR
12:19 LylePerl bye everyone
12:20 masak LylePerl: thanks! see you.
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12:47 masak time to go study Chinese.
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12:58 dalek rakudo: c76c692 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
12:58 dalek rakudo: spectest-progress.csv update: 349 files, 8444 passing, 0 failing
12:58 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c76c692e9d97c3b88f955631fdc61d5db87a71e8
12:59 moritz_ that's a nice number, again ;-)
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13:34 Tene_ jnthn: check your messages in #parrot... I left you a nopaste demonstrating the issue.
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14:02 jnthn oh hai I'm back
14:03 jnthn rakudo: my Int %h; say %h.of;
14:03 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Int␤»
14:03 jnthn rakudo: my Int %h = a => 42; say %h.of;
14:03 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Object␤»
14:03 ashizawa joined #perl6
14:03 jnthn Ugh, yes.
14:03 moritz_ didn't you have the exact same problem for Str?
14:03 moritz_ rakudo: my Int &f = Int sub { 3 }; say &f.of
14:03 jnthn moritz_: For Array, I guess you mean.
14:04 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "sub { 3 };"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
14:04 moritz_ erm, yes
14:04 jnthn moritz_: Yeah, it's gonna be the same kinda thing.
14:04 jnthn moritz_: I'll get arrays all sorted out first, I think. Then look at hashes.
14:04 moritz_ rakudo: my Int &f; our Int sub a() { 3 };  &f = &a; say &f.of;
14:04 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Object␤»
14:05 skids jnthn++
14:05 PerlJam Those aren't different manifestations of the same problem?
14:05 moritz_ rakudo: my Int &f; say &f.of; our Int sub a() { 3 };  &f = &a; say &f.of;
14:05 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Int␤Object␤»
14:05 * skids thrilled to see progress in that region
14:05 Tene_ jnthn: you see my messages in #parrot?
14:05 moritz_ jnthn: sure, do as you wish, my job is  just to make sure you're aware of them, and provide the tests ;-)
14:06 PerlJam moritz++
14:06 jnthn Tene_: Not yet...will look into it tomorrow probably.
14:06 jnthn Tene_: Trying to get the typed array stuff sorted out today...
14:06 PerlJam jnthn++ too :)
14:06 moritz_ indeed
14:07 jnthn Ooh, that sub one is...interesting.
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14:07 jnthn Ah, I didn't yet handle the our Int sub syntax
14:07 jnthn our sub a() returns Int { ... } should do it.
14:07 jnthn (Once the semantics are right, getting the alternative syntaxes supported should be the easy part though.)
14:08 jnthn Anyway, *very* happy to see lots of tests getting written for it. :-)
14:08 moritz_ rakudo: my Int &f; ou sub a() returns Int { 1 }; say &f.of; &f = &a; say &a.of
14:08 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub ou␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 94 (EVAL_19:48)␤»
14:08 skids jnthn: whenever you get to native types/S09 and packing, see http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl6_tasks for some corner cases.  I realize that may be a ways away.
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14:09 jnthn skids: Nice. :-)
14:09 jnthn Yes, a little while away.
14:10 jnthn Maybe in a couple of months I get to look at those.
14:11 * jnthn needs to do some non-Rakudo stuff for a little bit.
14:18 pmichaud jnthn: find_lex_left seems to me to be the same as find_lex ...?
14:18 pmichaud er, find_lex_lift
14:19 jnthn pmichaud: Look *carefully*. ;-)
14:19 jnthn pmichaud: It looks up the lexical from the point of view of the caller.
14:19 pmichaud it does?
14:19 pmichaud I don't see that.
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14:20 jnthn oh hmm nor do I
14:20 jnthn OH!!
14:20 jnthn lift is an epicly confusing name for it
14:20 jnthn We should rename that op. :-)
14:20 jnthn Anyway, what it does is a find_lex starting in the *outer* scope.
14:20 pmichaud ...but what does it do, exactly, that is different from find_lex ?
14:20 jnthn Not the current one.
14:21 pmichaud ah.
14:21 jnthn It's for lexical multis to find their outer multi.
14:21 pmichaud do we need an op for that?  Seems like it could be done with getinterp
14:21 pmichaud in fact, we already have a sub for that.
14:22 jnthn Yes, but it was an easy op to write and lexical multis are kinda common. ;-)
14:22 jnthn So I sorta didn't want it to have much overhead.
14:22 jnthn phone
14:23 jnthn ah, phone fail
14:23 pmichaud in general I think we need better lexical ops.
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14:27 jnthn Quite possibly.
14:27 jnthn Remember that imports are lexical by default.
14:27 pmichaud I never forget that.
14:27 pmichaud it scares me :-)
14:28 jnthn It isn't completely unrelated that I started working on lexical multis shortly after I did the first package-based cut of importing. ;-)
14:29 jnthn But we really need to solve the class hides lexicals issue before we switch over to importing to the lexpad.
14:29 jnthn Plus work out a few more details.
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14:46 moritz_ rakudo: my Int @a; say @a.of === Int
14:46 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«1␤»
14:47 jnthn ooh a right answer! ;-)
14:48 moritz_ ;-)
14:48 moritz_ is there any syntax supported yet for typed arrays of arrays?
14:49 moritz_ is something like my @x of Array of Int
14:49 moritz_ or my Array of Int @x
14:49 moritz_ or so
14:51 Matt-W moritz_: I'm sure I saw something about it in one of the synopses, so there is a syntax...
14:51 moritz_ Matt-W: I know the syntax, just not if it's supported
14:51 moritz_ rakudo: my Array of Int @a; say @a.of;
14:51 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Use of protoobject as value␤Failure␤»
14:51 moritz_ rakudo: my Array of Int @a; say @a.of === Array[Int];
14:51 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Use of protoobject as value␤Use of protoobject as value␤0␤»
14:52 moritz_ rakudo: my Array of Int @a; say "alive"
14:52 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Use of protoobject as value␤alive␤»
14:52 pmichaud afk # fetching kid lunches
14:52 moritz_ it seems to be mis-parsed, otherwise there'd be no warning
14:52 jnthn rakudo: my Array @a; say "alive"
14:52 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«alive␤»
14:52 jnthn rakudo: my Array[Int] @a; say "alive"
14:52 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Malformed declaration at line 1, near "Array[Int]"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
14:53 jnthn std: my Array[Int] @a
14:53 p6eval std 26126: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
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14:53 jnthn rakudo: role Foo[::T] { }; my Foo of Int $x;
14:53 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«get_bool() not implemented in class 'Role'␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;command_line' pc 1516 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:801)␤»
14:54 jnthn rakudo: role Foo[::T] { }; my Foo of Int $x; say "alive"
14:54 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«alive␤»
14:54 jnthn Wonder hwat's specialny about Array...
14:55 jnthn Ooh!!
14:55 jnthn Array is not a parametric role yet.
14:56 jnthn rakudo: my Positional of Int @x;
14:56 p6eval rakudo 4abd89:  ( no output )
14:56 jnthn rakudo: my Positional of Int @x; say "alive"
14:56 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«alive␤»
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14:56 moritz_ rakudo: my Positional of Int @x; say @x.of === Positional[Int]
14:56 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«1␤»
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14:56 moritz_ rakudo: my Positional of Int @x = [2, 3], [4, 5]; say @x.of === Positional[Int]
14:56 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«1␤»
14:56 moritz_ jnthn++
14:59 pugs_svn r26127 | moritz++ | [t/spec] tests for 'my Int @x; @x.of'; tests for typed nested arrays
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14:59 jnthn moritz_: Also note
15:00 jnthn rakudo: sub foo returns Int { }; say &foo.of
15:00 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Int␤»
15:00 jnthn Maybe good to have tests for that one too. :-)
15:00 jnthn rakudo: sub foo returns Int { }; say &foo.returns # too
15:00 moritz_ maybe ;-)
15:00 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Int␤»
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15:01 moritz_ jnthn: is .of specced?
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15:05 moritz_ rakudo: sub foo returns Int ($x) { return $x }; say foo(3); say foo('s')
15:05 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«3␤Type check failed on return value␤current instr.: 'die' pc 15932 (src/builtins/control.pir:204)␤»
15:06 * skids wonders if .Str ever got specced as well
15:06 moritz_ skids: it is
15:07 moritz_ both on match objects, and in general for conversion to Str
15:07 moritz_ I think there's a section in S13 stating that rather explicitly
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15:08 jnthn moritz_: If it's not, it probably should be. ;-)
15:08 pugs_svn r26128 | moritz++ | tests for return types
15:08 jnthn moritz_: I think it falls naturally out of the fact the trait has that name though.
15:08 * skids wonders if he ever even read S13 before
15:09 moritz_ jnthn: ah right, it's a trait, and traits are... what? methods?
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15:14 jnthn Well, they can introduce a property (read: attr and method)
15:14 jnthn Though it's convention rather than anything else.
15:14 jnthn In this case it's more like a
15:15 jnthn rakudo: role Foo[::T] { method of { return T } }; my $x = 42 but Foo[Str]; $x.of.say
15:15 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Str␤»
15:15 jnthn (to give a pointless example... ;-))
15:16 jnthn But it's really up to a role to provide the of
15:16 jnthn Or whatever methods - if any - that it wants.
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15:20 dalek rakudo: 7a22e0d | (Moritz Lenz)++ | t/spectest.data:
15:20 dalek rakudo: we pass the new S06-signature/types.t
15:20 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7a22e0d72f8ea70e0692d2828e6cf0a7c242fa63
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15:27 moritz_ rakudo: say 788 / 60
15:27 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«13.1333333333333␤»
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15:52 Matt-W woohoo
15:52 Matt-W Some time to work on Form!!
15:52 * Matt-W updates Rakudo...
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16:03 * jnthn might just have found the source of his failing tests
16:03 jnthn > say &pop.candidates[0].arity
16:03 jnthn 60248
16:03 lambdabot Not in scope: `say'    precedence parsing error
16:03 lambdabot cannot mix `(&)' [...
16:03 Matt-W that's not good
16:03 jnthn No!
16:03 Matt-W I doubt even you could come up with a function with 60,248 arguments
16:03 moritz_ ... unless it's a generated one
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16:04 jnthn rakudo: eval('sub foo(' ~ join(',', '$' xx 60248) ~ ') { }')
16:04 Matt-W moritz_: even then... especially anything called 'pop'
16:04 p6eval rakudo 4abd89:  ( no output )
16:04 jnthn Please say that didn't actually really compile...
16:05 jnthn rakudo: eval('sub foo(' ~ join(',', '$' xx 60248) ~ ') { }'); say &foo.arity
16:05 p6eval rakudo 4abd89:  ( no output )
16:05 jnthn No.
16:05 jnthn :-)
16:06 Matt-W interesting
16:07 Matt-W Form's failing tests with latest rakudo
16:07 moritz_ Matt-W: did you declare any parameters like sub foo(Array @a) ?
16:07 moritz_ if so, I know why it's failing ;-)
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16:08 Matt-W 'type check failed on return value'
16:08 moritz_ that's pretty new as well
16:09 moritz_ btw my local rakudo tries to execute the eval above at least three minutes now
16:09 Matt-W so I assume that rakudo actually checking declared return types is new?
16:10 moritz_ yes
16:10 Matt-W right
16:10 jnthn Matt-W: Yes, it hadn't used to check them before.
16:10 Matt-W so I need to check if I'm declaring it right, and if I am, why it's failing
16:10 moritz_ (but only for explicit return; implicit return is still unchecked)
16:13 Matt-W What is the proper way to specify a method's return type?
16:14 moritz_ rakudo: class A { method foo returns Int ($x) { return $x } }; A.foo('bar')
16:14 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Type check failed on return value␤current instr.: 'die' pc 15932 (src/builtins/control.pir:204)␤»
16:14 TimToady moritz_: I'd actually been thinking of .flip for string reverse.  to me .mirror would reverse the bidi chars to their opposites
16:14 moritz_ TimToady: yes, that's better (and shorter ;-)
16:14 Matt-W moritz_: so I'm doing that right then. Hmm.
16:14 TimToady rakudo: class A { method foo ($x --> Int) { return $x } }; A.foo('bar')
16:15 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Unable to parse multisig; couldn't find final ')' at line 1, near "--> Int) {"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
16:16 Matt-W TimToady: something I'm supposed to use later, after rakudo understands it?
16:17 jnthn At the moment the only syntax Rakudo really understands is the of Int or returns Int.
16:18 Matt-W is it valid to say "my Array of Str $foo"
16:19 jnthn In Perl 6? Yes. In Rakudo? Not yet.
16:19 Matt-W ah
16:19 Matt-W that explains that
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16:19 jnthn my Positional of Str $foo might give you the checking you want though.
16:19 jnthn (or will in the nearer future)
16:19 jnthn But you might as well just say
16:19 jnthn my Str @foo
16:20 Matt-W yes that just occurred tome
16:20 jnthn Which does (mostly) work.
16:20 Matt-W too much C++
16:20 Matt-W hmm got a null pmc
16:20 jnthn rakudo: my Str @foo;
16:20 p6eval rakudo 4abd89:  ( no output )
16:20 jnthn rakudo: my Str @foo; say "alive"
16:20 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«alive␤»
16:20 jnthn rakudo: my Str @foo; say "alive"; say @foo.of
16:20 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«alive␤Str␤»
16:21 jnthn Matt-W: But things like .push, .pop etc are known broken.
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16:21 jnthn I have a local patch, but I've got to get the "arity of sixty thousand" bug fixed first. ;-)
16:21 moritz_ btw I've compile and eval with 600 parameters, that worked
16:22 Matt-W rakudo: sub a returns Array of Str { my Str @a = ('a', 'b'); return @a; }; a.perl.say;
16:22 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Type check failed on return value␤current instr.: 'die' pc 15932 (src/builtins/control.pir:204)␤»
16:23 jnthn Matt-W: Yes, Array isn't aprametric yet.
16:23 jnthn It can't be until further refactors happen.
16:23 Matt-W right
16:23 Matt-W okay I'll drop the type constraint for the time being then
16:23 jnthn rakudo: sub a returns Positional of Str { my Str @a = ('a', 'b'); return @a; }; a.perl.say
16:23 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Type check failed on return value␤current instr.: 'die' pc 15932 (src/builtins/control.pir:204)␤»
16:23 jnthn That one shoulda worked though. :-|
16:24 jnthn rakudo: sub a returns Positional { my Str @a = ('a', 'b'); return @a; }; a.perl.say
16:24 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«["a", "b"]␤»
16:24 jnthn rakudo: sub a returns Positional[Str] { my Str @a = ('a', 'b'); return @a; }; a.perl.say
16:24 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Malformed routine definition at line 1, near "a returns "␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
16:25 jnthn rakudo: sub a returns Positional of Str { }; say &a.of ~~ Positional[Str]
16:25 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«0␤»
16:25 jnthn rakudo: sub a returns Positional of Str { }; say &a.of ~~ Positional
16:25 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«0␤»
16:25 jnthn rakudo: sub a returns Positional of Str { }; say &a.of ~~ Str
16:25 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«1␤»
16:25 jnthn oh!!
16:25 jnthn rakudo: sub a returns (Positional of Str) { }; say &a.of ~~ Positional[Str]
16:25 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«Malformed routine definition at line 1, near "a returns "␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
16:26 jnthn Matt-W: It's thinking that the of declaration there is another trait
16:26 jnthn like a sub a of Str { }
16:26 Matt-W ooh
16:26 jnthn Rather than parsing it as a Positional of Str type.
16:26 jnthn I think that might be because we're calling the wrong rule in the grammar though
16:30 pugs_svn r26129 | lwall++ | [S32/Containers] join defaults to '' now; delete string reverse
16:30 pugs_svn r26129 | lwall++ | [S32/Str] add string flip
16:31 jnthn Ohh!
16:31 * jnthn realizes his bug :-|
16:34 Matt-W hurrah
16:34 Matt-W did the realisation come with a fix?
16:34 TimToady rakudo: <a b c>.join
16:34 p6eval rakudo 4abd89:  ( no output )
16:34 jnthn Matt-W: I know *how* to fix it.
16:34 TimToady rakudo: <a b c>.join.say
16:34 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
16:34 jnthn Matt-W: Just a simple matter of coding now...
16:34 moritz_ so join is symmetric with [~] - nice
16:34 TimToady rakudo: <a b c>.Str.say
16:34 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
16:34 literal hm, why does git print a bunch of "got <commit>" and "walk <commit>" lines when pulling rakudo? I've only seen this happen with a handful of repositories
16:35 PerlJam literal: that's a question best left to #git  :)
16:35 moritz_ literal: and I've never seen it ;-)
16:35 literal odd, happens everytime I pull
16:35 TimToady yes, occurred to me that now we can say .Str we'd be better off default join to do what people expect it to :)
16:35 TimToady *defaulting
16:36 TimToady whenever I try to pull rakudo and remake, I get this:
16:36 TimToady /home/larry/rakudo/parrot/parrot  perl6_s1.pbc --target=pir src/gen_setting.pm > src/gen_setting.pir
16:36 TimToady Method '!make' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6;Grammar'
16:36 TimToady current instr.: 'parrot;Perl6;Grammar;quote_literal' pc 118014 (src/parser/quote_expression.pir:477)
16:36 TimToady that's with a make realclean and Configure.pl
16:37 Matt-W strange. I did a pull, realclean, configure and make a little while ago and it worked fine.
16:37 TimToady maybe it's finding an old parrot somehow
16:37 jnthn TimToady: You may need a newer Parrot too? Or did you use --gen-parrot?
16:38 TimToady on the Configure? that's probably it
16:38 jnthn We're tracking Parrot quite closely at the moment.
16:39 moritz_ and when you re-built parrot, you need to 'make clean' in rakudo
16:39 jnthn Unfortunately, I've just fixed a Parrot bug so I'm about to contribute to that too...
16:40 literal ah, apparently you only get the got/walk noise when pulling via http
16:40 literal "git:// does walking on the server. http:// does it on client"
16:41 moritz_ literal: I recommend against http://, because sometimes that didn't work for rakudo, with weird error messages
16:45 Tene_ joined #perl6
16:46 jnthn oh hmm
16:47 jnthn Turns out that wasn't the bug I expected. Also, &pop() and pop() seem to dispatch to different things. wtf...
16:52 cdarroch joined #perl6
16:53 buubot joined #perl6
16:56 jnthn Ohh!
16:56 jnthn proto prefix:<pop> is equiv(prefix:<abs>) is subname('pop') { ... }
16:57 DemoFreak joined #perl6
16:57 jnthn rakudo: pop()
16:57 p6eval rakudo 4abd89: OUTPUT«No applicable methods.␤␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 70 (EVAL_15:39)␤»
17:04 pugs_svn r26130 | lwall++ | .join now defaults to ''
17:05 TimToady someone will need to fix rakudo's .join
17:05 moritz_ I'm working on it
17:05 TimToady I patched the tests
17:05 moritz_ ah, good
17:05 moritz_ that'll be more work than deleting a single space ;-)
17:06 TimToady interestingly, there wasn't a single spot in the test suite that used .join to add spaces, so I think changing the default is correct
17:06 moritz_ ./parrot/parrot perl6.pbc  -e 'say <a b c>.join'
17:06 moritz_ abc
17:06 moritz_ TimToady: if you commit, I'll do so too ;-)
17:07 TimToady I already committed
17:07 M_o_C joined #perl6
17:07 moritz_ ah
17:07 TimToady see above
17:07 moritz_ right
17:07 TimToady I shoulda said [t/*] or some such
17:07 moritz_ running the tests now
17:14 PerlJam does split also default to '' (as join)?
17:14 * pmichaud flips for flip.
17:14 TimToady split doesn't default to anything
17:15 PerlJam $str.split.join eq $str  # would be nice I think
17:15 diakopter moritz_: the irclogs links to S32 don't work.. sorry I don't have any suggestions to fix it. :)
17:16 TimToady it'll be bad enough that people expect split(' ') to work like p5
17:16 TimToady if they write .split they'll expect the same thing half the time
17:18 PerlJam that's probably true.  I know I use @foo = split;  all the time in perl5
17:18 PerlJam it's only a small mental jump to expect @foo.split to do the same
17:19 PerlJam er, @foo = $str.split
17:19 * PerlJam can't type *or* think
17:19 pmichaud what is U+9FA6 ?!?
17:20 pmichaud (yes, I know it's a unicode codepoint.  What unicode codepoint is it supposed to be?)
17:20 moritz_ diakopter: I know, and I'll fix it as soon as we have HTML rendered S32 links
17:21 dalek rakudo: 582e78c | (Moritz Lenz)++ | src/builtins/any-list.pir:
17:21 dalek rakudo: .join now defaults to empty separator
17:21 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/582e78c78d66aad6f06c32f8d2417f18f88cd8a2
17:23 TimToady pm it appears to be 1 off the end of the CJK region
17:23 araujo joined #perl6
17:23 TimToady so not a real character
17:24 pmichaud in looking at http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/list-unicodeset.jsp?a=[%3AGeneral_Category%3DOther_Letter%3A]
17:24 pmichaud which (I think) displays all of the codepoints with the Lo property
17:25 pmichaud it shows
17:25 pmichaud U+4E00 ( 一 ) CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-4E00
17:25 pmichaud …{20930}…U+9FC3 ( 鿃 ) CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-9FC3
17:25 TimToady maybe they added some more that I don't know about
17:25 pmichaud which (I think) means that 9fa6 has the Lo property
17:25 Matt-W infix:<xx> isn't supposed to modify its left-hand argument is it?
17:26 PerlJam pmichaud: http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=9FA6
17:26 jnthn Matt-W: Don't believe so.
17:26 pmichaud PerlJam: yes, I'm also presuming from that page that U+9FA6 should be a valid Letter.
17:26 TimToady added in 4.1, it appears
17:26 ejs joined #perl6
17:26 Matt-W jnthn: didn't think so
17:27 pmichaud infix:<XX> itself doesn't modify its left-hand argument, but it also doesn't clone it.
17:27 lucs pmichaud: According to my copy of the Unicode Standard, version 2, U+9FA6 to U+9FFF are an unassigned block at the end of the CJK Unified Ideographs.
17:30 TimToady 4.1
17:30 TimToady so your version is about 2.1 versions out of date :)
17:30 lucs Right :)
17:30 pmichaud so, any suggestions for modifying the spectest?
17:31 pmichaud should I pick 9fff ?
17:31 jnthn moritz_: I gotta run do a bunch of deployment stuff for a client now, but latest commits get most of the S09 arrays.t passing.
17:31 TimToady I don't know which spectest you're referring to
17:32 pmichaud oh, sorry
17:32 pmichaud t/spec/S05-mass/properties.t
17:32 jnthn moritz_: 22 out of 29 it seems. Feel free to fudge and add to spectest.data.
17:32 pmichaud jnthn++  # more passing spectests
17:32 jnthn moritz_: Or I'll do it in a couple of hours when I get this other work done.
17:32 moritz_ jnthn: sure, will do
17:32 jnthn Also, I wrote overlong commit messages and killed dalek. Again!
17:32 pmichaud or I could pick u+9fc4, which is one off the end of the (5.1) cjk region
17:32 dalek joined #perl6
17:33 jnthn (Note for all who grab my latest commits: you need latest Parrot, since I just fixed the "oh hai you haz an arity of 60,000" bug.)
17:33 pmurias joined #perl6
17:33 TimToady any particular value seems fragile without versioning
17:33 pmichaud jnthn: did you bump build/PARROT_REVISION ?
17:33 jnthn pmichaud: I did.
17:33 moritz_ pmichaud: I have no particular opionion on that one, do as you wish
17:33 pmichaud jnthn++
17:34 jnthn pmichaud: But since the commit message that said so didn't appear here, thought I'd mention it.
17:34 pmichaud jnthn: got it.
17:35 pmichaud well, if any value is fragile, I think I'll go with 9fc4 for now, and put a note in the file
17:36 moritz_ at least it appeared on #parrot
17:38 PerlJam how do I "make spectest" but not the whole thing?
17:38 pmichaud how do you mean "not the whole thing"?
17:39 moritz_ PerlJam: make t/spec/path/to/file.t
17:39 PerlJam I just want to run the spectests in one dir
17:39 pmichaud if you want to do a subset of tests, create t/localtest.data   and then make that
17:39 pmichaud for one dir,   make t/spec/dir/*.t
17:39 PerlJam thanks
17:39 moritz_ grep ^S06 t/spectest.data > t/localtest.data; make localtest
17:39 pmichaud (although note that this will run tests that aren't in spectest.data)
17:39 pmichaud moritz++  # better answer
17:41 pugs_svn r26131 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fix plan and typos in S06-typed-arrays/arrays.t; also fudged for
17:41 pugs_svn r26131 | moritz++ | rakudo
17:41 * Matt-W notes to self that you shouldn't confuse xx and x
17:43 dalek rakudo: 8a2b924 | (Moritz Lenz)++ | t/spectest.data:
17:43 dalek rakudo: we now pass S09-typed-arrays/arrays.t
17:43 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8a2b92460be2fdda3c75472d3305a4398d3c2a20
17:46 TimToady maybe r should reverse a string and rr reverse a list (mostly joking)
17:52 Matt-W TimToady: Don't even THINK about it!
17:53 moritz_ ;-)
17:53 PerlJam oh, and we should use .s to coerce to a string and .i to coerce to an integer too!
17:54 moritz_ I thought .i returned an imaginary number?
17:54 moritz_ oh wait, that's probably abolished
17:54 * moritz_ is *so* yesterday
17:54 pugs_svn r26132 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: Start refactoring S05-mass/properties.t into separate (smaller) files.
17:54 pugs_svn r26132 | pmichaud++ | This should keep the tests shorter, and perhaps make them a little
17:54 pugs_svn r26132 | pmichaud++ | easier to maintain.  The properties-general.t file handles general
17:54 pugs_svn r26132 | pmichaud++ | category properties (as opposed to script and/or block properties
17:54 pugs_svn r26132 | pmichaud++ | which will be broken out separately later).
17:55 moritz_ pmichaud: I'm switching Str.reverse to .flip at the moment (FYI)
17:55 pmichaud moritz_++   # excellent
17:55 pmichaud it shouldn't impact anything I'm working on.
17:55 pmichaud (and vice-versa)
17:56 moritz_ rakudo: class Any is also { method a { $.Str } }; say 5.a.perl;
17:56 p6eval rakudo 8a2b92: OUTPUT«"Int<0xb69ff0e8>"␤»
17:56 moritz_ that's... interesting
17:57 moritz_ I think  S05-mass/properties.t was a relict of Perl6::Rules or whatever that Damian-module was called
17:58 cognominal joined #perl6
18:01 pmichaud sure.  I'm just updating it now.
18:03 moritz_ rakudo: 345.split(4).perl.say
18:03 p6eval rakudo 8a2b92: OUTPUT«["3", "5"]␤»
18:03 moritz_ rakudo: "345".split(4).perl.say
18:03 p6eval rakudo 8a2b92: OUTPUT«["3", "5"]␤»
18:03 moritz_ rakudo: 234.reverse
18:03 p6eval rakudo 8a2b92: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed for $delimiter in call to split␤current instr.: 'die' pc 16201 (src/builtins/control.pir:206)␤»
18:04 moritz_ I don't understand that
18:04 moritz_ there are two split multis
18:04 pmichaud something isn't multi that should be
18:04 pmichaud or
18:04 pmichaud it's dispatching to the wrong multi
18:05 moritz_ if there's no PIR split leaking in I suspect the latter
18:05 moritz_ both methods are multi
18:05 jnthn Are they defined on the same class?
18:05 moritz_ jnthn: yes
18:05 moritz_ the sub form is not multi
18:05 moritz_ (I'll fix that)
18:05 pmichaud oh, that's probably the problem.
18:06 pmichaud or at least it might be a problem.
18:06 pmichaud Parrot still has difficult keeping methods and subs distinct.
18:06 moritz_ but its delimiter has no type constraint (ie Any)
18:06 moritz_ ok, let me try that
18:06 jnthn Also beware that if you call split(...) sub in a method and that class defines a method you'll end up calling the split method...
18:06 jnthn Which is probably a bug.
18:07 pmichaud (yes, that's the parrot bug I'm referring to)
18:07 jnthn ok
18:09 Matt-W if I declare a state variable inside a while block inside a sub, will it persist across sub calls or just loop repetitions?
18:10 jnthn across the sub calls unless the sub is cloned, I think
18:10 PerlJam Matt-W: should be sub calls
18:10 Matt-W thanks
18:11 PerlJam Matt-W: it'll persist across loop repetitions too though  :)
18:11 jnthn rakudo: sub foo($x) { while $x-- { state $y = 1; say $y++ } }; foo(3); foo(2);
18:11 p6eval rakudo 8a2b92: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to readonly variable.␤current instr.: 'die' pc 16201 (src/builtins/control.pir:206)␤»
18:11 jnthn rakudo: sub foo($x is copy) { while $x-- { state $y = 1; say $y++ } }; foo(3); foo(2);
18:11 p6eval rakudo 8a2b92: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤»
18:11 moritz_ rakudo++ # being smarter than jnthn++ ;-)
18:13 jnthn :-P
18:14 Matt-W I guess I was kind of hoping it'd only attach to the nearest block
18:14 Matt-W I'll just stick a my outside the loop
18:15 pmichaud which is different from sticking your a outside the loop.  :-)
18:17 moritz_ what seemed like a fairly trivial change proves to be... interesting
18:18 pmichaud That seems to happen a lot in Perl 6.
18:18 PerlJam rakudo: my ($,$)=1,2
18:18 p6eval rakudo 8a2b92:  ( no output )
18:18 PerlJam rakudo: constant ($,$) = 1,2
18:18 p6eval rakudo 8a2b92:  ( no output )
18:18 PerlJam rakudo: state ($,$) = 1,2
18:18 p6eval rakudo 8a2b92: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in isa_pmc()␤current instr.: 'infix:=' pc 14683 (src/builtins/assign.pir:133)␤»
18:19 pugs_svn r26133 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]:  #?rakudo fudge some tests in properties-general.t .
18:19 PerlJam rakudo: temp ($,$) = 1,2
18:19 p6eval rakudo 8a2b92: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "($,$) = 1,"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
18:19 moritz_ pmichaud: actually the change for the default value of split was fairly trivial ;-)
18:19 PerlJam looks like state and temp have a bug wrt anonymous scalars.
18:21 moritz_ temp is NYI
18:21 moritz_ and anonymous scalars in state? wtf?
18:21 PerlJam oh, I though it was
18:22 PerlJam moritz_: See S02:1796
18:23 PerlJam Well, S02:1792 is the important sentence though
18:23 pmichaud okay, time to grab lunch while waiting for a spectest run to finish.  bbl.
18:23 moritz_ and I thought Pelr 5 was obscure ;-)
18:24 moritz_ rakudo: say (reverse { a => 1, b => 1 }).perl
18:24 p6eval rakudo 8a2b92: OUTPUT«{"1" => "b"}␤»
18:25 PerlJam Hmm.  does "has" provide a declarative context?  If so,  what does  has $;   mean?
18:25 TimToady I think maybe Hash.push should create sublists for dup keys
18:26 TimToady it means an anonymous attribute, which is pretty useless I expect
18:26 PerlJam I tend to want to outlaw useless constructs personally.
18:26 TimToady you could even initialize it "has $ = 42;"
18:26 LylePerl Hi All
18:27 LylePerl I got IIS to work with pugs
18:27 TimToady well, but then someone will think of a use for it. :)
18:27 moritz_ TimToady: I'm sure they will ;-)
18:28 moritz_ PerlJam: ok, I stand correct, rakudo has a problem there.. care to submit a bug report?
18:28 moritz_ (although I suspect it's a fairly low priority TODO)
18:28 PerlJam *real* low  :)
18:28 TimToady std: has $ = 42;
18:28 p6eval std 26133: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
18:29 pmichaud PerlJam: We have to keep some useless constructs around so that Damian continues to have good OSCON talks :-P
18:29 moritz_ lol
18:29 pmichaud (gone for lunch)
18:29 PerlJam pm: hey, I just did a little patch for flip (and it passes all spectests)
18:30 moritz_ PerlJam: it shouldn't
18:30 moritz_ PerlJam: because the spec tests are out of date
18:30 PerlJam moritz_: well, it passes after I modified them  to use $str.flip where it currently uses $str.reverse  :)
18:30 TimToady is there still a Str.reverse implemntation out there
18:31 moritz_ TimToady: out there yes - not in my local copy
18:31 moritz_ but I suspect the test suite needs updates in several places
18:31 moritz_ and reverse.t is *full* of str-vs-list distinguishing tests
18:32 PerlJam not in my copy  :)
18:32 moritz_ s/is/was/
18:32 moritz_ PerlJam: congratulations, we worked in parallel on the same thing, and thus duplicated effort :/
18:32 moritz_ anyway, show me your patch, it might be a lot nicer than mine ;-)
18:33 PerlJam moritz_: not really.  Some of the effort was just for me to start doing things.  I always seem to have a problem getting started.
18:34 pasteling "PerlJam" at 165.95.12.193 pasted "flip patch" (30 lines, 766B) at http://sial.org/pbot/35890
18:35 skids TimToady: use for "has $" ... padding in a compact struct
18:35 moritz_ PerlJam: ah, mine does a bit more
18:36 PerlJam moritz_: I'm sure.  Show me :)
18:36 pasteling "PerlJam" at 165.95.12.193 pasted "spec patch for flip" (106 lines, 3.7K) at http://sial.org/pbot/35891
18:36 PerlJam moritz_: your can critique my spec patch too :)
18:36 PerlJam s/your/you/
18:36 moritz_ PerlJam: just a sec...
18:37 literal .oO(does Bool have a .flip?)
18:37 diakopter LylePerl: how'd you do it
18:39 pasteling "moritz_" at 91.10.187.171 pasted "s/reverse/flip/ - a few more lines :/" (164 lines, 4.1K) at http://sial.org/pbot/35892
18:40 moritz_ PerlJam: my patch to the tests does roughly the same thing, but removes some duplicates and moves the flip tests to another file
18:40 PerlJam yes, I see
18:41 moritz_ if the current run is clean, I'll commit
18:41 moritz_ PerlJam: for example your patch wouldn't handle flip(123)
18:41 moritz_ (I think so, didn't try it)
18:41 PerlJam I wasn't sure about that reverse multi in the PIR there, but apparently it's not needed  anymore  :)
18:42 PerlJam indeed it does not.
18:42 LylePerl diakopter: setting up a handler mapping on IIS7. Still can't get rakudo to work on IIS though, I'm doing some more tests but I'm pretty sure it's a parrot issue
18:43 PerlJam moritz_: this is one of the things I really haven't given enough thought about to keep straight in my head ... what goes in src/classes vs. src/builtins vs src/setting
18:44 moritz_ PerlJam: everything new goes into setting ;-)
18:44 PerlJam sure, except that some things have pieces spread out everywhere. :)
18:44 moritz_ PerlJam: and usually all things that are written in PIR and are callable as a method go in src/classes
18:44 moritz_ right ;-)
18:45 pugs_svn r26134 | moritz++ | [t/spec] string reversal is now spelled flip()
18:45 PerlJam moritz_: did you add a spectest for flip(123)?  I don't think there was one like that for reverse
18:46 moritz_ PerlJam: just did so, in r26134
18:47 moritz_ anyway, PerlJam++ PerlJam++ for both patches
18:52 barney joined #perl6
18:54 LylePerl yep. I'm sure it's a parrot/iis issue, a basic PIR hello world script with correct content type header fails as well
18:56 LylePerl I'll join the parrot channel and ask them. I'll let you know when I have Rakudo working with IIS and I'll update my blog with a guide
18:56 LylePerl bye
18:58 hexmode b
19:04 * jnthn -> nomming cheezburger, bbs
19:21 pugs_svn r26135 | lwall++ | [S32/Containers] make it possible to reverse a hash without (too much) loss of
19:21 pugs_svn r26135 | lwall++ |      information when there are duplicate values or list values
19:28 PerlJam TimToady: was that patch not quite complete?  There seems to be something missing:  The intention is that %bar.push(%foo.reverse);  %baz.push(%bar.reverse);
19:28 TimToady gah
19:29 TimToady ADHD strikes!!! --more--
19:29 TimToady You lose 42 hit points!
19:29 dalek rakudo: 6b97553 | pmichaud++ | :
19:29 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:rakudo/rakudo
19:29 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6b97553103e247da96d1fafe6896d1a49b764f13
19:29 pugs_svn r26136 | lwall++ | [CORE] add flip as core function
19:29 pugs_svn r26136 | lwall++ | [STD] allow .= flip without warning
19:32 pugs_svn r26137 | lwall++ | [Containers] finish the edit
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20:01 pmichaud phone
20:13 schinkelm joined #perl6
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20:24 masak joined #perl6
20:24 masak ahoj, people.
20:24 donaldh joined #perl6
20:24 masak so, .flip eh? :)
20:25 jnthn masak: oh hai
20:25 moritz_ masak: yes ;-)
20:25 jnthn masak++ # slovak! :D
20:25 Caelum joined #perl6
20:25 moritz_ masak: what#s wrong with you? usually you're not around at this time of day
20:26 masak jnthn: samozrejme :)
20:26 masak moritz_: that is correct.
20:26 masak found a wifi hotspot to leech on in my building.
20:26 masak I'll try not to let it ruin my night's sleep...
20:27 moritz_ ;-)
20:27 * masak has eaten a really nice pasta dinner, and is now moving on to rooibos, ice cream and cookies
20:29 masak anyway. Lobster.
20:38 PZt joined #perl6
20:39 jnthn masak: that sounds FAR too nice
20:39 jnthn masak: Though I still win because I eated a cheezburger.
20:39 masak jnthn: note that the Lobster wasn't part of my dinner. it's what I'm hacking on ATM. :P
20:40 masak I suddenly realised that this could be miscomprehended.
20:40 masak shouldn't name my projects after puns...
20:41 jnthn masak: Akshually I don't like sea food. :-( It was more the pasta, ice cream and cookies that got me.
20:41 masak jnthn: (seafood) it are teh BLECH, trust me.
20:41 jnthn masak: I noes. It r srsly DO NOT WANT.
20:42 jnthn OK, time to see what chaos I can cause in Positional
20:42 pugs_svn r26138 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec] Move script-related property tests into S05-mass/properties-script.t .
20:42 masak time to see what beauty I can cause in Lobster.
20:43 jnthn rakudo: my @a; @a[1] = 42; say @a.perl
20:43 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in isa()␤current instr.: 'parrot;List;!flatten' pc 7415 (src/classes/List.pir:236)␤»
20:44 jnthn rakudo: my @a; @a[1|2] = 42; say @a.perl
20:44 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«get_integer() not implemented in class 'Junction'␤current instr.: 'parrot;Positional[::T];postcircumfix:[ ]' pc 4824 (src/classes/Positional.pir:68)␤»
20:44 masak that last one...
20:44 pugs_svn r26139 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]:  Oops -- properties-script.t really does have a plan.  Really.
20:44 masak what's it supposed to do?
20:45 cspencer joined #perl6
20:45 jnthn masak: I'm not completely convinced it'll work...
20:45 masak jnthn: for all we know, it's working properly already. :)
20:45 jnthn As an rvalue it should return a junction of the array elements I guess.
20:45 cspencer good afternoon!
20:45 jnthn Only question is if it can serve as an rvalue too.
20:45 jnthn erm
20:45 jnthn as an lvalue
20:46 jnthn Anyway, not going to worry about that one for now.
20:46 masak cspencer: greetings, sir.
20:48 jnthn pmichaud: ping
20:49 diakopter is there a syntax-highlighted version of STD.pm on feather somewhere?
20:50 cspencer so i'd attempted to move the shift method out of Range.pir and into Range.pm the other day, but it failed and complained that a "shift_pmc" method wasn't available
20:50 pmichaud jnthn: pong
20:50 cspencer is there a way that i can associate shift and shift_pmc?
20:50 pmichaud cspencer: we don't have a way to declare vtable methods yet.
20:50 pmichaud (from Perl 6)
20:50 cspencer ah ok
20:50 literal diakopter: you can make one if you have vim
20:50 pmichaud in some sense you eventually won't have to .
20:50 pmichaud because it'll be taken care of in Object or Any.
20:50 jnthn pmichaud: Are @foo[] and @foo[*] meant to be different?
20:50 diakopter I need html :)
20:51 literal diakopter: vim can do that
20:51 diakopter oh?
20:51 pmichaud jnthn: in general, I don't think they're different.
20:51 jnthn pmichaud: For the first, in method postcircumfix:<{ }> we're doing:
20:51 literal :TOhtml
20:51 jnthn .tailcall self.'list'()
20:51 jnthn However for @foo[*] we do
20:51 cspencer pmichaud: is the solution similar to defining the get_number method in Object.pir?
20:51 pmichaud cspencer: it might be -- I haven't tried it yet.
20:51 diakopter literal: thanks; nm; I remembered the script that does that here..
20:51 jnthn result = 'list'(self)
20:51 cspencer ok, i'll check it out and see what breaks :)
20:52 jnthn pmichaud: I wondered if it was an intentional difference or not. I don't need to change it really. It just got me curious.
20:52 masak @tell mberends oh, and for some Pod6 tests, November's Test::InputOutput might be more fitting. http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/37976
20:52 lambdabot Consider it noted.
20:52 pmichaud jnthn: I can't remember why there would be any difference between them.
20:53 pmichaud feel free to re-work it.  But also note that our handling of * has to change also.
20:53 jnthn pmichaud: OK. Thing is I sort of suspect they could potentially end up giving different results.
20:53 jnthn Yeah, I'm not worry about that bit right now. :-)
20:54 pmichaud in general there is/can be a difference between .'list'() and 'list'(), yes.
20:56 TimToady yes, they're different
20:56 TimToady since [] is 0 dimensional, not 1 dimensional like [*]
20:57 TimToady so @foo[].WHAT is Array, while @foo[*].WHAT is List, I expect
20:57 moritz_ pmichaud: your recent commits to the test suite have many insertions but no deletions - is that intentional?
20:57 pmichaud that is likely to be the difference.  Also, if you're looking at postcircumfix:{ }  -- chances are that I just copied it from Positional without investigating it too thoroughly.
20:57 literal masak: heh, I would have just stuffed all those strings in an array of arrays and looped over it
20:57 masak literal: that's what it does.
20:57 pmichaud moritz_: I'm wanting to finish the refactor before I remove properties.t
20:58 pmichaud (yes, a deletion is coming.)
20:58 moritz_ pmichaud: ok
20:58 masak literal: with a few (very few) extra bits thrown in.
20:59 masak such as using Perl 6's Pairs if it finds them.
20:59 literal ok
21:00 masak literal: Test::InputOutput is very down-to-earth. I put all the crazy, weird stuff in Test::Ix :)
21:01 literal Ix?
21:01 literal what does that do?
21:02 masak literal: http://github.com/masak/druid/blob/master/t/01-game-rules.t
21:02 masak it finds the test subs through a hierarchical index of strings.
21:02 literal interesting
21:02 masak encouraging the test writer to list and group the tests before writing them.
21:03 masak the Test::Ix module is the nicest Perl 6 code I've ever written. http://github.com/masak/druid/blob/masak/lib/Test/Ix.pm
21:03 literal "That page doesn't exist!", silly github
21:03 masak oops.
21:04 masak http://github.com/masak/druid/blob/master/lib/Test/Ix.pm
21:04 literal hm, does "return ();" do something different from "return;" ?
21:04 masak aye.
21:05 masak not sure I like it, but that's the spec.
21:06 literal just grepped S*.pod, no occurence of "return ()", one occurence of "return()"
21:06 literal and that was in S17-concurrency.pod ...
21:06 masak IIRC, 'return ()' returns an empty list, aka Nil.
21:07 masak whereas 'return' returns undef. or something like that.
21:07 moritz_ I thought both return Nil, which is undef in scalar context, and the empty list in list context?
21:07 pmichaud note that  return()  is different from  return ()
21:08 pmichaud and   "return;"   is the same as "return();"
21:08 literal yeah
21:08 masak aye.
21:08 masak makes sense.
21:08 payload joined #perl6
21:08 moritz_ pmichaud: but is () an empty list? or is it a no-op?
21:08 pmichaud it's an empty list
21:08 literal so what does "return;" mean in list context, then?
21:08 pmichaud an empty list.
21:09 pmichaud "return;"  in scalar context gives an undef value.
21:09 literal ah, but "return ();" is Nil ?
21:09 pmichaud no.
21:09 [particle]- that tells me "return;" returns Nil
21:09 pmichaud "return;"  gives back Nil.  Nil is an empty list in list context, and undef in item context.
21:09 [particle]- return (); returns empty list, which in scalar context, is ?
21:09 literal so, there's no difference between "return;" and "return ();" in any context?
21:10 pmichaud an empty list in scalar context becomes a Capture
21:10 pmichaud (with no positional values)
21:10 [particle]- there's the difference.
21:10 literal ok
21:10 pmichaud s/scalar context/item context/  # fwiw
21:10 [particle]- oops
21:10 masak rakudo: sub foo { return }; sub bar { return () }; say foo.WHAT; say bar.WHAT
21:10 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«Nil␤List␤»
21:10 pmichaud it used to be that an empty list in item context became an Array, but that changed recently
21:10 moritz_ somebody[tm] told me that () in Perl 6 only had grouping functions, and never construct lists
21:11 moritz_ is that somebody wrong?
21:11 pmichaud ()  produces an empty list.  Outside of that, it is used only for grouping.
21:11 masak moritz_: in this corner case, yes.
21:11 literal so what would "return Nil;" do?
21:11 masak literal: return Nil? :)
21:12 moritz_ literal: probably the same as 'return;'
21:12 literal ok
21:12 Whiteknight joined #perl6
21:16 masak I've gotta blog about Test::Ix, before I forget how it works. some of that code scares me a little.
21:16 masak such as the code that finds a variable declaration in another file, and executes it.
21:16 masak or the code that figures out how many params a sub wants, and provides that number of params when calling it.
21:17 moritz_ .arity?
21:17 masak aye.
21:17 moritz_ seems pretty standard to me ;-)
21:18 masak heh. :)
21:18 masak http://github.com/masak/druid/blob/master/lib/Test/Ix.pm#L89-91
21:19 masak I think it felt great to do that because it was recently implemented at that time.
21:20 masak but I actually use that feature in the Druid tests.
21:24 masak TimToady: should I expect 42.flip to give me "24"?
21:25 TimToady probably
21:25 * masak crosses fingers
21:25 moritz_ rakudo: say 24.flip
21:25 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«42␤»
21:25 masak whoa!
21:26 masak your guys have been busy. :)
21:26 masak s/r//
21:27 TimToady rakudo: my $x = (^1000).pick; say $x + $x.flip
21:27 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«705␤»
21:27 moritz_ masak: I thought switching reverse to flip would a straight forward change... in the end the diff had ~130 lines :)
21:28 literal what motivated that? reserve "reverse" for lists?
21:28 masak moritz_: why? lots of calls to it?
21:28 ejs joined #perl6
21:28 TimToady literal: yes, to detangle the concepts, basically
21:28 moritz_ masak: no, lots of reverse subs and methods in differnt files with different signatures
21:29 literal ok
21:29 moritz_ I ended up doing everything in Perl 6 in the end ;-)
21:29 masak rakudo: say flip("sub")
21:29 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«bus␤»
21:29 TimToady literal: basically, same process as splitting xx from x, .elems from .chars, etc
21:29 masak rakudo: say flip("someone the bird")
21:29 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«drib eht enoemos␤»
21:30 literal yeah, sounds good
21:30 TimToady I wondered how long it would take for that example to come out :)
21:30 masak been wanting to do it all evening. :)
21:30 masak should have put .say at the end, though.
21:33 TimToady nap &
21:34 * jnthn wonders if he dares put that in his NPW slides
21:34 * moritz_ encourages jnthn ;-)
21:35 masak of course you dare.
21:36 masak Perl is all about being impertinent in the right places.
21:36 jnthn Wasn't the lovejuice slide at YAPC last year bad enough? ;-)
21:38 jnthn woo I can haz fix0rs
21:38 jnthn > my Int @foo; @foo[1] = 42; say @foo.perl; @foo[0] = "bah"
21:38 jnthn [undef, 42]
21:38 jnthn Type mismatch in assignment.
21:38 lambdabot <no location info>: parse error on input `@'
21:39 PerlJam jnthn: nice
21:41 moritz_ commit it, test it, ship it!
21:41 moritz_ or was it the other way round? ;-)
21:41 masak it ship, it test, it commit?
21:41 moritz_ flip it!
21:41 jnthn .oO( plz to not gives these guys commit bits )
21:41 jnthn ;-)
21:41 masak it flip!
21:42 moritz_ jnthn: too late, mostly ;-)
21:42 masak jnthn: no-one would ever be that careless, I'm sure.
21:42 jnthn rakudo: my Int $a; my Int $b; ($a, $b) = (1, 2); say $a, $b;
21:42 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«12␤»
21:42 jnthn rakudo: my Int $a; my Int $b; ($a, $b) = ("fu", "ck"); say $a, $b;
21:42 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«Type mismatch in assignment.␤current instr.: 'die' pc 16132 (src/builtins/control.pir:206)␤»
21:42 jnthn Ah, good.
21:42 Tene So, anyone have ideas on running a block on a sliding window across a list?
21:43 masak Rakudo's built-in swearing filter.
21:43 Tene i.e. on elements 0,1 then on 1,2 then on 2,3 etc.
21:43 masak Tene: just slice it?
21:43 Tene masak: hm?
21:43 masak something like @a[ $ix ..^ $ix + $window-size ]
21:43 donaldh left #perl6
21:44 Tene masak: Sure, but just in a for-loop from 1..$index - size?
21:44 Tene Would be nice if I could get it into a map somehow
21:44 Tene or something.
21:44 masak Tene: ah. yes.
21:45 * masak advises Tene to experiment around
21:45 moritz_ rakudo: my $w = 3; my @a = 1..6; for ^(@a - $w) { say @a[$a ..^ $a+$w] };
21:45 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«Scope not found for PAST::Var '$a' in ␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:102)␤»
21:45 moritz_ rakudo: my $w = 3; my @a = 1..6; for ^(@a - $w) { say @a[$_ ..^ $_+$w] };
21:45 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«123␤234␤345␤»
21:46 moritz_ OH NOEZ, offbyone
21:46 moritz_ rakudo: my $w = 3; my @a = 1..6; for 0..(@a - $w) { say @a[$_ ..^ $_+$w] };
21:46 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«123␤234␤345␤456␤»
21:47 moritz_ I'm sure audreyt would have had an solution involving lazy lists and zip by now ;-)
21:48 Tene Oh, interesting idea...
21:48 Tene @a Z @a[1..*] Z @a[2..*]
21:48 lambdabot Maybe you meant: activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask . ? @ v
21:48 Tene approx
21:49 PerlJam er ... what's the goal?
21:49 masak rakudo: my @a = 1..6; for @a Z @a[1..*] Z @a[2..*] { say @a[$_ ..^ $_+3] }
21:49 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«234␤345␤456␤345␤456␤56Use of uninitialized value␤␤456␤56Use of uninitialized value␤␤6Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤␤56Use of uninitialized value␤␤6Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized
21:49 p6eval ..value␤...
21:49 moritz_ for [Z] map {@a[$_..*] } 1..3 -> $x, $y, $z { ... }
21:49 masak .oO( [Z] ! )
21:50 * masak can has exploding head
21:50 moritz_ masak: speaking of which... care to submit that as a bug?
21:50 masak sure, just going to let my head finish exploding first.
21:50 moritz_ oh wait
21:50 moritz_ hm
21:51 moritz_ zip should stop when the shortest list ist exhausted, right?
21:51 masak aye.
21:51 moritz_ but...
21:51 masak ihrd and I talked about that the other day.
21:51 masak so a definite yes.
21:51 moritz_ the undef warnings are from the $_+3
21:52 moritz_ you're reading beyond the limits of the array
21:52 * masak still doesn't see it
21:52 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = 1..4; for @a Z @a[1..*] Z @a[2..*] { .say }
21:52 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤2␤3␤4␤3␤4␤Use of uninitialized value␤␤4␤Use of uninitialized value␤␤Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
21:52 masak oh!
21:52 masak :/
21:52 moritz_ ok, it *is* a bug
21:53 masak rakudo: my @a = 1..6; for @a Z @a[1..*] Z @a[2..*] -> $i, $, $ { say @a[$i ..^ $i+3] }
21:53 lisppaste3 joined #perl6
21:53 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«234␤345␤456␤56Use of uninitialized value␤␤6Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
21:53 masak I'd submit, but I feel a distinct lack of understanding.
21:54 moritz_ masak: you're using *values* from @a as *index* on @a, so you get at least an offby1 from 1..6 being one based
21:54 moritz_ ok, I'll do the submitting
21:54 masak moritz_: ah, of course.
21:54 * moritz_ checks the spec first
21:55 masak rakudo: my @a = 1..6; for @a Z @a[1..*] Z @a[2..*] -> $i1, $i2, $i3 { say $i1, $i2, $i3 }
21:55 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«123␤234␤345␤456␤56Use of uninitialized value␤␤6Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
21:55 masak rakudo: my @a = 1..6; for @a Z @a[1..*] Z @a[2..*] { say $^i1, $^i2, $^i3 }
21:55 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = 1..4; say @a[1..*].perl
21:56 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«123␤234␤345␤456␤56Use of uninitialized value␤␤6Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
21:56 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«[2, 3, 4, undef]␤»
21:56 masak moritz_: now _that_'s a bug.
21:56 moritz_ masak: indeed
21:56 masak aye, please submit.
21:57 jnthn What on *earth*?!
21:57 jnthn Epic bug.
21:57 PerlJam It's a Whatever bug
21:57 jnthn rakudo: (1..*).say
21:57 moritz_ offby1
21:57 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
21:57 jnthn rakudo: (1..*).perl
21:57 p6eval rakudo 6b9755:  ( no output )
21:57 jnthn rakudo: (1..*).perl.say
21:57 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«1..*␤»
21:57 moritz_ it's magic[tm]
21:58 jnthn PerlJam: yah whatever ;-)
21:58 moritz_ rakudo: .say for 1..2 Z 2..5;
21:58 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«1␤2␤2␤3␤»
21:59 moritz_ rakudo: for 1..3 Z 1..2 Z 1..1 { say $^a, $^b, $^c };
21:59 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«111␤»
21:59 Tene rakudo: my &foo = { say "$^a + $^b" }; for 1..10 &foo;
21:59 moritz_ it seems that zip actually works fine
21:59 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (0) - 2 params expected␤current instr.: '_block21' pc 136 (EVAL_20:57)␤»
21:59 Tene jnthn: know if that should work?
22:00 jnthn std: for 1..10 &foo
22:00 moritz_ Tene: it should complain about a syntax error
22:00 p6eval std 26139: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Malformed block at /tmp/LEaI2hMAMC line 0:␤------> [32m[31m[0m␤    expecting any of:␤    argument list␤    infix or meta-infix␤      infix stopper␤    parameterized block␤      standard stopper␤FAILED 00:05 42m␤»
22:00 Tene aw. :(
22:00 jnthn moritz_: Yeah, that was what I thought
22:00 moritz_ `for' is special syntax, and expects a block
22:00 moritz_ if you don't want that, `map' is your friend
22:00 meppl good night
22:00 Tene does map deal with arity like for does?
22:00 simcop2387 joined #perl6
22:01 PerlJam yes
22:01 moritz_ Tene: better, actually ;-)
22:01 moritz_ at least in rakudo
22:01 Tene ah.
22:01 moritz_ it's specced to work the same, though
22:01 * jnthn watches make spectest hopefully
22:02 moritz_ jnthn: did parallel spectest ever work on windows?
22:02 jnthn OH NOES I HAZ MADE A FAIL
22:03 jnthn moritz_: I didn't try it yet.
22:04 moritz_ masak: oh, [Z] wouldn't work, because [$anything] ... always returns a scalar - so it would be @ [Z] map { @a[$_..*] } 0..$window
22:07 Tene jnthn: bug related to your current work...
22:07 Tene rakudo: sub foo(@a) { say @a.perl }; foo(1..10);
22:07 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«Non-Positional argument or Positional of wrong element type for @a in call to foo␤current instr.: 'die' pc 16132 (src/builtins/control.pir:206)␤»
22:07 masak moritz_: were you expecting that to reassure me, or to explode my head more? :P
22:08 jnthn Tene: Ah, hmm.
22:08 moritz_ masak: ;-)
22:08 jnthn Tene: I guess Range does Positional...
22:10 Tene looks like [Z] is unerrepresented in spectests
22:10 Tene only in reduce-le1arg.t
22:11 masak it looks like the front of a superhero suit.
22:11 masak The Great Zip!
22:12 masak is it a train, is it a lizard? no... it's Zip!
22:12 moritz_ Tene: that's probably because it needs slice context to work
22:12 Tene ah
22:12 moritz_ in it seems that nobody actually understands slice context
22:12 moritz_ so nobody would write tests for that
22:12 moritz_ and nobody implements it
22:13 moritz_ vicious circle
22:13 moritz_ writing tests without being able to test your tests can be frustrating
22:13 Tene Hmm... +&foo isn't defined.
22:14 Tene I wonder if it should be the number of required positional args...
22:14 masak or the number of multi variants?
22:14 moritz_ or maybe a fail('U WANT TO NUMIFY UR SUBS? ORLY? U R CRAZY') ;-)
22:15 Tene looks like apply-sliding-window would be approximately:
22:15 Tene map(&block, [Z] map({@array[$_..*]}, 0..^&block.arity()));
22:15 masak rakudo: sub foo {}; say +&foo
22:15 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«get_number() not implemented in class 'Sub'␤current instr.: 'prefix:+' pc 21434 (src/builtins/op.pir:119)␤»
22:16 masak rakudo: class Sub is also { method get_number { 5 } }; sub foo {}; say +&foo
22:16 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«get_number() not implemented in class 'Sub'␤current instr.: 'prefix:+' pc 21434 (src/builtins/op.pir:119)␤»
22:16 masak bah.
22:17 jnthn rakudo: class Sub is also { method Num { $.arity } }; sub foo { }; say +&foo;
22:17 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«get_number() not implemented in class 'Sub'␤current instr.: 'prefix:+' pc 21434 (src/builtins/op.pir:119)␤»
22:17 masak double bah.
22:17 jnthn that one should work
22:17 * masak submits rakudobug
22:18 jnthn But guess we ain't re-mapping get_number vtable yet.
22:18 moritz_ there's a patch for that in RT
22:18 moritz_ by cspencer++
22:18 masak oh.
22:18 * masak stands down rakudobug readiness
22:19 cspencer moritz: that patch passed all spectests a couple revisions back, and i'm hoping it still does what it's supposed to do
22:19 cspencer though i can't quite remember why'd i implemented it, though i have a feeling it had to do with ranges
22:19 Tene rakudo: map { say "$^a - $^b"}, 1..10 Z 1..10
22:19 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'map'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 142 (EVAL_19:58)␤»
22:19 Tene jnthn: is that also relevant to your current work?
22:20 * masak perks up again
22:20 masak is that one in RT?
22:20 Tene dunno
22:21 * masak submits, just in case
22:21 jnthn Tene: Perhaps.
22:21 jnthn Tene: Looks like it may be the same solution, at least.
22:22 moritz_ why didn't the test suite catch that?
22:22 Tene jnthn: it's the same if I use arrays not created through ranges.
22:22 moritz_ I thought map was rather well tested
22:22 Tene rakudo: map { say "$^a - $^b"}, (1,2,3) Z (4,5,6)
22:22 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'map'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 156 (EVAL_17:62)␤»
22:23 Tene looks like it's map + Z
22:23 jnthn rakudo: say ((1,2,3) Z (4,5,6)).WHAT
22:23 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«List␤»
22:23 jnthn rakudo: say ((1,2,3) Z (4,5,6)).PARROT
22:23 moritz_ rakudo: map { say "$^a - $^b }, (1, 2, 3, 4)
22:23 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«List␤»
22:23 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 1, near " \"$^a - $^"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
22:23 masak rakudo: map { say "$^a - $^b" }, (1..10 Z 1..10)
22:23 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«1 - 1␤2 - 2␤3 - 3␤4 - 4␤5 - 5␤6 - 6␤7 - 7␤8 - 8␤9 - 9␤10 - 10␤»
22:23 masak appears to be a parens thing.
22:24 masak p6eval? hello?
22:24 moritz_ and old bot is no aeroplane
22:25 moritz_ masak: didn't p6eval already answer?
22:26 masak moritz_: not in my reference frame.
22:26 moritz_ masak: the answer to which query do you miss?
22:26 masak moritz_: no, it's all arrived now.
22:26 masak probably just a bit of lag near my end.
22:27 Kisu joined #perl6
22:27 * masak goes to sleep
22:27 * moritz_ blames the hijacked wlan hotspot ;-)
22:27 moritz_ good idea
22:27 moritz_ good night
22:27 jnthn night
22:27 jnthn moritz_: Are there tests for typed hashes too?
22:28 jnthn Oh, moritz++ meant he was taking sleep too
22:28 moritz_ jnthn: not really, just for the dispatch thing
22:31 jnthn moritz_: OK.
22:39 jnthn ouch, we broke the 300 ticket mark.
22:43 bacek joined #perl6
22:46 pugs_svn r26140 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] ported over hash bvalue
22:52 jnthn rakudo: &map.assuming({})
22:52 p6eval rakudo 6b9755:  ( no output )
22:52 jnthn rakudo: my &doubler = &map.assuming({ 2 * $^n }); say &doubler 1,2,3;
22:52 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "1,2,3;"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
22:53 jnthn rakudo: my &doubler = &map.assuming({ 2 * $^n }); say &doubler(1,2,3);
22:53 p6eval rakudo 6b9755: OUTPUT«246␤»
22:53 jnthn Tene: Heh, I just found http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=64482
22:58 Tene_ joined #perl6
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23:40 dalek rakudo: 2ae3181 | jnthn++ | src/classes/ (2 files):
23:40 dalek rakudo: Get type checking of operations involving arrays working. Along the way, fixed the bug where my @a; @a = 1; then made anything that referenced @a[0] blow up with a Null PMC Exception.
23:40 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2ae3181d3854d65ec8268d11ef1ef82e4eb2ccdd
23:44 dalek rakudo: 0a9dd6d | jnthn++ | src/classes/ (2 files):
23:44 dalek rakudo: Get typed hashes working in dispatch and have assignments to them typed-checked. Calling methods on them is still broken; need a few more things to become Perl6MultiSub.
23:44 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0a9dd6dc16cf92db529ecceb5c8370f1e4f1b212
23:47 jnthn @tell masak maybe if you have time take a look at http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=62968 and see if you think we're looking good on that one now.
23:47 lambdabot Consider it noted.
23:48 jnthn @tell masak we may want some tests for it if so; scribble on the ticket if there's still issues there :-)
23:48 lambdabot Consider it noted.
23:49 jnthn rakudo: role Foo {}; role Bar {}; sub baz(Foo Bar $a) {}; say "should not be alive here before 6.0.0"
23:49 p6eval rakudo 0a9dd6: OUTPUT«should not be alive here before 6.0.0␤»
23:49 jnthn Eh. Tomorrow. :-)
23:50 jnthn erm, actually today...
23:50 jnthn Anyway, night all
23:50 pmichaud jnthn: good night :-)
23:50 jnthn pmichaud: BTW Rakudo day zajtra
23:50 jnthn erm
23:50 jnthn s/zajtra/tomorrow/
23:50 pmichaud jnthn: OKAY
23:50 pmichaud jnthn: C U TMRW KTHXBYE
23:51 jnthn pmichaud: Will likely do some tickets, maybe implement .wrap ;-)
23:51 pmichaud ...anotations?
23:51 jnthn OH YEAH
23:51 pmichaud *annotations?
23:51 jnthn Well, if Tene doesn't beat me to it. ;-)
23:51 pmichaud no rush... it _did_ take me forever to get to them myself.  :-)
23:51 jnthn He plans to do some stuff in that area tonight too. So I might not have much to do by the time tomorrow comes. ;-)
23:51 pmichaud that would be fine with me.
23:51 Tene pmichaud: I had an implementation last night, but had to wait on feedback from Jonathan to fix Exception.pmc.
23:52 * jnthn fed back :-)
23:52 pmichaud I plan to work on tickets tomorrow.  We also should be making our plans for hackathon in oslo
23:52 jnthn Yes, agree.
23:52 pmichaud I'll likely start a thread and wikipage for it tonight.
23:52 jnthn Great.
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23:53 jnthn Guess it wants to have: binding, parameter passing...
23:54 jnthn Might be good to spend some time thrasing out a generally attack plan for multi-dimensional arrays and so forth too. Especially with Larry there if we have questions. :-)
23:54 pmichaud yes.  I'm already making a list :-)
23:54 pmichaud oh, are you planning to make it to YAPC::EU ?
23:55 jnthn Yes, almost certainly I will be there.
23:55 pmichaud okay.  allison and I were discussion our plans for YAPC::EU -- we may want to do a parrot meeting of some sort there.
23:55 pmichaud *discussing
23:55 jnthn OK. Is there not one at YAPC::NA (the VM workshop)?
23:56 pmichaud I think that's more aimed at people who are interested in working on Parrot.  We were thinking of something like PDS -- i.e., planning for 2.0
23:56 jnthn Or more a smaller Parrot-Rakudo meeting?
23:56 jnthn Ah, OK.
23:56 pmichaud (well, it was more allison's idea than my own :-)
23:56 jnthn I had thought PDW would incorporate the planning for 2.0 too.
23:56 jnthn But makes sense to separate them.
23:56 jnthn And having it in Europe would be nice. :-)
23:57 pmichaud I'm just trying to solidify my travel plans, and try to see who can fund them :-)
23:57 jnthn I can easily tack on extra day(s) for a PDS anyway.
23:57 pmichaud anyway, good to know you're likely for YAPC::EU.
23:57 jnthn :-)
23:58 jnthn Also at NPW I'd like to work out my next Hague Grant application, since typed arrays and hashes are coming together nicely now.
23:58 jnthn And they were pretty much the last thing I have left to do on the current one.
23:58 pmichaud yes, we should do that also.
23:58 jnthn I guess by then you'll have the roadmap updated too, which will be good input into that.
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