Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-04-15

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:01 s1n how do i indicate a method in a class/role cannot be overwritten?
00:01 s1n similar to leaving final (in Java) or virtual (in C++) off the proto/definition
00:02 s1n i want the derived/composed class to inherit the method but it cannot override it
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00:23 Casan s1n: not sure for sure. but try checking http://perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html#Class_methods at the end. maybe a metaclass method can do it, but its just an idea. I haven't tried this.
00:23 lambdabot Casan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
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00:45 wayland76 s1n: That's a rather non-Perl-like idea :)
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01:04 * skids wonders if evalbot could be made to put the current IRC buffer into it's STDIN pipes.
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01:04 LylePerl_ eval: say $*CWD
01:05 LylePerl_ evalbot: say $*CWD
01:05 skids perl6: say $*CWD
01:05 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
01:05 p6eval ..elf 26237, pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
01:06 LylePerl_ hmm
01:06 LylePerl_ on my local pugs that works...
01:08 LylePerl_ pugs_svn: say $*CWD
01:08 skids Maybe something to do with how it's jailed?
01:09 LylePerl_ How do I query the eval bots individually?
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01:09 skids rakudo, pugs, elf, stc
01:09 skids erm std
01:09 skids Oh and mildew
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01:09 LylePerl_ pugs: say $*CWD
01:09 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
01:09 LylePerl_ thanks skids
01:09 skids np
01:11 LylePerl_ I'm trying to figure out the chdir tests
01:11 LylePerl_ pugs just uses $*CWD to get the current working directory
01:12 LylePerl_ perl 5 uses the Cwd module that calls on a load of builtins from the OS
01:12 LylePerl_ I'm not sure what to do :/
01:15 LylePerl Is Rakudo going to get $*CWD? Or should I port some of the Perl 5 code?
01:16 skids There's some set of builtins, but I'm trying to remember if they are still under $*
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01:16 skids Something in that general area of the spec got changed.
01:16 LylePerl yes $*CWD isn't in the spec
01:17 skids rakudo: $*PID.say
01:17 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
01:22 skids rakudo: $*VM.say
01:22 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
01:22 skids rakudo: $*PERL.say
01:22 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
01:23 LylePerl hmm looks like parrot has the functionality http://docs.parrot.org/parrot/latest/html/src/pmc/os.pmc.html
01:23 LylePerl I guess I can just hack onto this?
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01:27 skids rakudo: %*ENV<PWD>.say
01:27 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«/home/evalenv/rakudo␤»
01:28 LylePerl doesn't work for me locally :(
01:28 skids What OS?
01:29 LylePerl vista
01:29 skids methinks that is probably why :-)
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01:30 skids rakudo: $*CWD := %*ENV<PWD>; $CWD.say;
01:30 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«Scope not found for PAST::Var '$CWD' in ␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:102)␤»
01:31 skids rakudo: our $*CWD := %*ENV<PWD>; $CWD.say;
01:31 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«/home/evalenv/rakudo␤»
01:31 LylePerl Is there a quick a clever perl 6 way to display all the %*ENV?
01:32 skids %*ENV{}.say
01:32 skids rakudo: our $*CWD := %*ENV<PWD>; $*CWD.say;
01:32 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«/home/evalenv/rakudo␤»
01:32 LylePerl rakudo: %*ENV{}.say
01:33 p6eval rakudo d208e1:
01:33 p6eval ..OUTPUT«screen/bin/bashevalenv/home/evalenv/pugs/v6/smop/build/no=00:fi=00:di=01;34:ln=01;36:pi=40;33:so=01;35:do=01;35:bd=40;33;01:cd=40;33;01:or=40;31;01:su=37;41:sg=30;43:tw=30;42:ow=34;42:st=37;44:ex=01;32:*.tar=01;31:*.tgz=01;31:*.svgz=01;31:*.arj=01;31:*.taz=01;31:*.lzh=01;31:*.lzm...
01:33 skids yeah here that will be truncated.
01:33 LylePerl locally I'm getting "No Applicable Methods"
01:34 LylePerl Does that mean vista isn't giving an %*ENV at all?
01:35 skids Probably Parrot doesn't yet implement the Env class on VIsta.
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02:11 LylePerl Been playing with parrot and is does have Env on vista, I found a script on http://docs.parrot.org/parrot/latest/html/docs/user/pir/pmcs.pod.html that prints it
02:11 LylePerl no PWD though
02:18 LylePerl pugs: %*ENV{}.say
02:18 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
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02:48 skids Tried %*ENV<CD> on Vista?
02:51 LylePerl yes, empty
02:51 LylePerl but %*ENV<OS> works
02:53 LylePerl So I guess vista has an issue with %HASH{}.say... I'll write some test code in the morning and file a bug
02:53 skids http://vistaonwindows.com/environment_variables.html
02:54 skids Check a normal hash?
02:55 skids rakudo: my %d; %d<a b c> = <1 2 3>; %d{}.say
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02:55 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«123␤»
02:55 skids rakudo: my %d; %d<a b c> = <1 2 3>; %d{}.perl.say
02:55 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«["1", "2", "3"]␤»
02:55 skids rakudo: my %d; %d<a b c> = <1 2 3>; %d.perl.say
02:55 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«{"a" => "1", "b" => "2", "c" => "3"}␤»
02:55 skids rakudo: my %d; %d<a b c> = <1 2 3>; %*ENV.perl.say
02:55 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«{"TERM" => "screen", "SHELL" => "/bin/bash", "USER" => "evalenv", "LD_LIBRARY_PATH" => "/home/evalenv/pugs/v6/smop/build/", "LS_COLORS" =>
02:55 p6eval .."no=00:fi=00:di=01;34:ln=01;36:pi=40;33:so=01;35:do=01;35:bd=40;33;01:cd=40;33;01:or=40;31;01:su=37;41:sg=30;43:tw=30;42:ow=34;42:st=37;44:ex...
02:56 skids OK, I forgot it doesn't .kv
03:02 LylePerl rakudo: my %d; %d<a b c> = <1 2 3>; %d{}.say
03:02 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«123␤»
03:03 LylePerl all working for me apart from the when it's with %*ENV
03:03 LylePerl Going to bed. Thanks again
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03:57 s1n bleh, Casan's recommendation to use a metaclass method is wrong, as i understand it, metaclass methods are similar to class functions in java or static members in c++
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04:57 masak good morning, PMC-camels.
05:18 diakopter masak: howdy
05:18 masak diakopter: ah, someone is here after all. :)
05:23 wayland76 More than one... :)
05:30 pugs_svn r26238 | masak++ | [elf/README] fixed two small errors
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10:33 Matt-W Good morning #perl6
10:34 literal hi
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11:01 wayland76 Good evening Matt-W :)
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11:37 ruoso Hello!
11:42 wayland76 hi
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14:33 LylePerl hi
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14:35 LylePerl quiet today, guess everyone is (getting ready for)|(traveling to) NPW
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14:37 * mberends Amsterdam -> Oslo o/
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15:06 wayland76 I'm not.  I've unwisely started coding an interlinear editing widget in Perl 5 :)
15:06 wayland76 And I'm addicted :)
15:08 Matt-W a what??
15:08 wayland76 An interlinear editing widget :)
15:08 Matt-W what's an interlinear editing widget?
15:08 Matt-W I've never heard of the concept
15:09 wayland76 An interlinear book is one which has eg. the first line in Greek, and the second line is an English translation
15:09 [particle]- it lets you edit what's between the lines
15:09 wayland76 ...and the third line is Greek again
15:10 wayland76 Am I right in assuming you don't need "editing widget" explained?
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15:12 Matt-W oh wow
15:12 Matt-W so it's designed for editing books in that format
15:13 Matt-W rather than, say, editing the two languages separately and getting the typesetter to combine them later
15:13 Matt-W that sounds challenging
15:13 Matt-W nice to have a challenge
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15:16 wayland76 Yes, that's right :)
15:17 wayland76 And, since the whole thing will have to be kinda based around cells, I'm going to add the extra challenge of also supporting other editing widgets (ie. equation widgets) in it too
15:17 wayland76 But I'll hopefully use other people's equation widgets
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15:46 * jnthn has arrived in Oslo for NPW :-)
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16:43 literal http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/38809?from=rss
16:43 literal How does Perl 6 do this?
16:44 literal better summary of this -> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.moose/2009/04/msg683.html
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16:49 mofino if perl5 can do it, i'm sure perl6 can do it
16:49 mofino (guess)
16:49 literal can yes, but will it?
16:50 mofino perl6 isn't sentient, it cannot make that choice
16:50 literal I don't think you understand
16:51 tpf_particle rakudo: role a { method b { say 'role' } }; class c does a { method b { say 'class' }; say a.b();
16:51 literal I'm asking if the method in this case will be overridden silently or with a warning
16:51 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«Unable to parse block; couldn't find final '}' at line 1, near ""␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
16:51 tpf_particle rakudo: role a { method b { say 'role' } }; class c does a { method b { say 'class' } }; say a.b();
16:51 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«Could not locate a method 'b' to invoke on class 'Role'.␤current instr.: 'die' pc 17360 (src/builtins/control.pir:222)␤»
16:51 mofino literal, i don't think you understand me ;)
16:51 tpf_particle rakudo: role a { method b { say 'role' } }; class c does a { method b { say 'class' } }; say c.b();
16:51 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«class␤1␤»
16:52 tpf_particle rakudo: role a { method b { say 'role' } }; class c does a { method b { say 'class' } };  c.b();
16:52 p6eval rakudo d208e1: OUTPUT«class␤»
16:52 tpf_particle anyway, that's just as ovid said. class method silently overrides role method.
16:53 wayland76 I'd rather not have the warnings.  It would be like issuing a warning if you overrode something with inheritance
16:53 cjfields agreed
16:53 tpf_particle well, it's a different warning, since you're overriding with composition.  but, yes, it is like it.
16:53 tpf_particle i'd like the warnings to exist, but not be enabled by default
16:54 wayland76 That would be fine by me
16:54 tpf_particle however, since the object system is totally pluggable in perl 6, you can define a new class metaobject that does the warning.
16:55 tpf_particle so, if they don't exist in std perl 6, fine, create a small module that puts them in for you.
16:55 wayland76 :)
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16:55 cjfields the way Moose is handling that is the other way around, correct?  enabling warnings, requiring an explicit 'excludes' to indicate an override?
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16:56 wayland76 That's how it seems to me from one of the linked articles
16:56 cjfields yes, looks like stevan implemented that
16:56 cjfields http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.moose/2009/04/msg683.html
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19:27 wayland76 backlog will be short today :)
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20:13 dalek rakudo: a4535c1 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
20:13 dalek rakudo: spectest-progress.csv update: 362 files, 10357 passing, 0 failing
20:13 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a4535c13b7d89c61e756938c8ee11f545ccc107c
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20:58 skids OK, kids, I'm going to commute home now.  Play nice.  Share the toys.  Don't everyone start talking at once!
20:59 * skids bets dalek will be the top talker tomorrow.
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