Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-04-16

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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03:35 s1n anyone wanna be a guinee pig for my NLP project?
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04:00 wayland76 Can you do neuro-linguistic programming through IRC? :)
04:08 s1n wayland76: not sure exactly what you're asking there, but i need an evaluator or two, which can be done via IRC
04:08 s1n oh, NLP = natural language processing
04:08 wayland76 Ah, ok :)
04:09 wayland76 what does being a guinea pig involve in this case?
04:09 s1n evaluating generated output
04:10 wayland76 evaluating based on what criteria?  Grammaticalness?  Artistic merit?
04:10 s1n i have a set of weighted grading system i devised for this experiment
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04:39 mncharity @tell masak Thanks for the commit!  Please let me know if you encounter other difficulties, or if I can be of any help.
04:39 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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06:51 jnthn oh morning
06:55 Matt-W oh hai jnthn
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07:10 wayland76 Ooh, people :)
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07:18 Matt-W yes people
07:18 Matt-W well, me
07:18 Matt-W and maybe jnthn's still hee
07:18 Matt-W here*
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08:04 wayland76 Well, you see, skids bets that dalek is going to be the biggest talker "tomorrow"
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08:33 eiro hello
08:33 Matt-W hello
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10:14 bacek hi there
10:14 bacek how is Oslo hackatron going?
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10:29 ihrd hi there
10:30 ihrd I use action for grammar tokens, and find out something strange
10:31 ihrd If I use anything with regexp inside action method
10:32 ihrd like .subst(/\w/, 'Y');
10:32 ihrd make do not work
10:33 ihrd I think this happens because of make use $/
10:33 ihrd can I change this somehow? can I specify make to use other variable instead?
10:36 wayland76 Well, you could try saving $/ into another variable, and restoring it before the end of the action
10:47 ihrd wayland76: thank you, it is works
10:47 ihrd btw it looks ugly
10:49 ihrd I have no possibility to change C<make> behavior?
10:50 wayland76 I've had a better idea
10:50 wayland76 Use a temp scoped variable
10:50 wayland76 ie. at the start, write "temp $/"
10:51 wayland76 ...and it should fix itself when you exit the scope
10:51 wayland76 not sure if it's implemented, but it's in S02
10:52 ihrd but I have make and another match in the same scope
10:54 wayland76 Well, I don't understand P6 grammars properly yet :)
10:55 Matt-W I think there will be a better mechanism for that sort of thing later
10:55 Matt-W but we don't have one yet
10:55 Matt-W (that I'm aware of)
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10:55 Matt-W seems to me that $/.ast should be assignable, that'd do the same thing as make does...
10:56 Matt-W and then you could do it to other objects
10:56 Matt-W or maybe $match.make($thing)
10:56 Matt-W this is just groundless speculation though
10:57 ihrd Matt-W: yes, I was expected something like this
10:58 ihrd wayland76: temp var NYI
10:58 Matt-W But there will be something better
10:58 Matt-W If only because I'll be screaming my head off until it appears :)
10:58 wayland76 ok
10:59 * wayland76 practises doing that too.  Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahgh!
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11:06 pmurias ihrd: $/ is contextual so if you the other match in a nested lexical scope it shouldn't cause problems
11:07 ihrd pmurias: yes, and I realy have problems
11:10 ihrd I have some check, like $exp ~~ /^ \s* $/ in action method, and now I should work ugly workaround to use make after
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11:13 pmurias ihrd: if you use do { $exp ~~ /^ \s* $/ } the $/ shouldn't be contaminated
11:14 ihrd but it is
11:14 ihrd ah, sorry
11:14 ihrd you are right, I will try
11:16 ihrd pmurias: yes, do this in block is better workaround
11:17 ihrd thank you
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15:06 eiro http://pastebin.com/f4df057e4
15:06 buubot eiro: The paste f4df057e4 has been copied to http://erxz.com/pb/17070
15:07 eiro this gives me <this a>
15:08 eiro i expected <a> ... any idea ? (i take my exemples from http://www.programmersheaven​.com/2/Perl6-FAQ-Regex#regex which can be outdated)
15:10 wayland76 rakudo: my %k = < this is a good >; for %k.keys {  /a/ or next;   .say };
15:10 p6eval rakudo a4535c: OUTPUT«this␤a␤»
15:11 Tene pmichaud: Okay, that's pretty cool... defining a sub named !sub_trait_lol makes "sub foo is lol { ... }" work properly
15:11 eiro that's what i said, wayland76 :)
15:11 Tene pmichaud: but I can't define tha sub without some hackery...
15:13 wayland76 rakudo: my %k = < this is a good >; for %k.keys { /a/ or next; .say; say /a/; };
15:13 p6eval rakudo a4535c: OUTPUT«this␤_block42␤a␤_block42␤»
15:14 wayland76 rakudo: my %k = < this is a good >; for %k.keys { /a/ or next; .say; say((/a/)); };
15:14 p6eval rakudo a4535c: OUTPUT«this␤_block42␤a␤_block42␤»
15:14 Tene wayland76: mentioning a regex isn't the same as matching against it in Perl 6
15:14 Tene that's just testing the truthiness of the regex /a/
15:14 [particle]- yep
15:14 wayland76 I'm trying to print a boolean :)
15:14 [particle]- you need to smartmatch
15:14 wayland76 oh
15:14 Tene wayland76: you'r eprinting a regex, not a boolean.
15:14 wayland76 rakudo: my %k = < this is a good >; for %k.keys { /a/ or next; .say; say( $_ ~~ /a/); };
15:14 p6eval rakudo a4535c: OUTPUT«this␤␤a␤a␤»
15:15 eiro ohhh ...
15:15 Tene rakudo: for <this a> { next unless $_ ~~ /a/; .say }
15:15 p6eval rakudo a4535c: OUTPUT«a␤»
15:15 eiro that's sad :(
15:15 wayland76 rakudo: my %k = < this is a good >; for %k.keys { $_ ~~ /a/ or next; .say; say( $_ ~~ /a/); };
15:15 p6eval rakudo a4535c: OUTPUT«a␤a␤»
15:15 Tene you know, I wonder if a statement-level version of when would be a good idea
15:15 Tene next when /a/
15:16 [particle]- except you'll also want the reverse
15:16 Tene when't
15:16 Tene ;)
15:16 [particle]- well, it's legal perl 6, if not proper english :)
15:16 Tene when not /a/ should work...
15:17 Tene Hm, it doesn't in rakudo...
15:17 Tene ah, nm
15:17 Tene I'm no longer convinced it should work.
15:18 eiro ~~ could be unary ?
15:18 eiro next if ~~/a/
15:18 Tene TimToady: what do you think about statement-modifier 'when'?
15:21 wayland76 @seen TimToady
15:21 lambdabot TimToady is in #perl6. I don't know when TimToady last spoke.
15:22 literal I recall that not making sence because 'when' leaves the block after it's executed
15:22 Tene literal: and this would do the same.
15:22 literal oh, ok
15:22 Tene next when /a/; seems nicer than when /a/ { next }
15:23 literal why not just "return unless /a/" ?
15:23 Tene because 'next' will start up the next iteration of the loop
15:23 [particle]- next unless $_ ~~ /a/;
15:23 Tene oh, and just mentioning a regex in Perl 6 doesn't match it against $_
15:24 Tene Sure, that works fine.  Just a little wordier than might be ideal.
15:24 wayland76 when /a/ { next; } # is good enough -- at least we don't have to refer to the context variable
15:24 Tene since automatically matching against $_ has been removed, it might be nice to have a keyword for a common form of it.
15:25 wayland76 rakudo: my %k = < this is a good >; for %k.keys { when !/a/ { next; } .say; };
15:25 p6eval rakudo a4535c: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ".say; };"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
15:25 wayland76 rakudo: my %k = < this is a good >; for %k.keys { when /a/ { next; } .say; };
15:26 p6eval rakudo a4535c: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ".say; };"␤␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Util;die' pc 129 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:83)␤»
15:26 Tene wayland76: };
15:26 Tene semicolon after your closing }
15:26 wayland76 rakudo: my %k = < this is a good >; for %k.keys { when /a/ { next; }; .say; };
15:26 p6eval rakudo a4535c: OUTPUT«this␤»
15:26 wayland76 rakudo: my %k = < this is a good >; for %k.keys { when !/a/ { next; }; .say; };
15:26 p6eval rakudo a4535c: OUTPUT«this␤a␤»
15:27 wayland76 Is there a way to do what I mean in my last example?
15:27 Tene when /a/ { .say };
15:30 wayland76 Well, not quite what I want, but I guess I could live with smartmatch
15:39 Tene std: sub 'quoted_subname' { say 'omg i am quoted' }
15:39 p6eval std 26238: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Malformed routine at /tmp/M3L9Ez2s1W line 1:␤------> [32msub [31m'quoted_subname' { say 'omg i am quoted'[0m␤    expecting any of:␤      blockoid␤ name␤   routine_def␤        terminator␤     trait␤FAILED 00:02 34m␤»
15:39 Tene hmm...
15:40 Tene std: infix:<kindaquote> { say 'lol' }
15:40 p6eval std 26238: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
15:40 Tene std: sub infix:<kindaquote> { say 'lol' }
15:40 p6eval std 26238: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
15:40 Tene std: sub <kindaquote> { say 'lol' }
15:40 p6eval std 26238: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Malformed routine at /tmp/pMlRl1gUFA line 1:␤------> [32msub [31m<kindaquote> { say 'lol' }[0m␤    expecting any of:␤    blockoid␤ name␤   routine_def␤        terminator␤     trait␤FAILED 00:02 34m␤»
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16:07 mikehh rakudo (a4535c1) builds on parrot r38157 - make test PASS / make spectest PASS - t/spec/S09-typed-arrays/hashes.rakudo - TODO passed:   6-7
16:08 mikehh Ubuntu Intrepid i386 - in fact ./perl6 t/spec/S09-typed-arrays/hashes.t ok all inc. 2 TODO and 1 SKIP
16:09 mikehh have we any feedback from other builds on this?
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16:15 kadaver what is audrey Tang's irc name?
16:16 [particle]- audreyt
16:16 [particle]- ...and she hasn't been around for a long time.
16:17 kadaver is she still working on it?
16:17 [particle]- it?
16:17 kadaver Pugs I mean. and is Pugs the main Perl 6 implementation+
16:17 [particle]- no, and no.
16:17 [particle]- pugs hasn't been under active development for a few years.
16:18 [particle]- rakudo is the perl 6 implementation with the most passing tests, and most active development
16:18 [particle]- http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo
16:19 [particle]- pmichaud: ping
16:19 wayland76 The other ones are smop and elf
16:20 wayland76 smop is also actively developed by multiple developers
16:20 [particle]- is that all there are, these days?
16:20 wayland76 There may be another, but I forget
16:20 [particle]- http://perl6-projects.org/
16:20 wayland76 I was going to write more, but try [particle]-'s link instead
16:21 pyrimidine wasn't audreyt waiting on a newer version of ghc for some reason before taking up Pugs again?
16:21 [particle]- yes. has ghc 6.10 come out?
16:21 pyrimidine yes: http://haskell.org/ghc/
16:22 [particle]- well then, maybe she's waiting on other things, or has no tuits.
16:22 pyrimidine my thought as well
16:22 [particle]- seems ghc 6.10 isn't a blocker anymore
16:22 wayland76 Probably waiting for enlightenment DR17 :)
16:26 kadaver 6.10.2 now
16:27 kadaver tuits?
16:28 [particle]- http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?tuit
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16:30 pyrimidine re: pugs, I worry more about how much has changed with the spec.
16:31 pyrimidine anyone know how much of the test suite it passes?
16:31 pyrimidine (at one point I thought it was ~16000 or so)
16:32 [particle]- i haven't built pugs in a very long time
16:32 pyrimidine but that's before moritz's overhaul
16:32 pyrimidine yes, same here
16:32 [particle]- maybe someone on feather could run pugs against the spec tests
16:32 [particle]- i bet there are a ton of parse errors now
16:34 pyrimidine Agreed.  And, seeing as rakudo has passed 10000 it appears to be driving the spec now.
16:34 pyrimidine (well. has been for a while actually)
16:35 pyrimidine but maybe I'm wrong?
16:35 kadaver is Larry Wall not working on Perl 6?
16:36 pyrimidine I would say he is
16:36 pyrimidine http://irclog.perlgeek.de/search.pl?c​hannel=perl6&amp;nick=TimToady&amp;q=
16:37 pyrimidine (note the nick)
16:39 [particle]- larry is hard at work on perl 6
16:43 ruoso I didn't know the irclog supported nick filter...
16:45 kadaver well audreyt is getting really beautiful these days
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16:52 [particle]- and tomorrow is audrey's birthday
17:06 wayland76 I wonder if geeks are more likely to look better as they get older than other people are
17:06 wayland76 I know I look better at 30-something than I did at, say 23
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17:11 skids Maybe it's the anti-oxidant effect of caffeine? :-)
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17:27 wayland76 Well, I don't do tea or coffee either
17:29 wayland76 For me, it's because I took the time to study appearance like a geek would.  Research historical styles, learn the difference between fashion and style, and develop a still-unique style that actually looks alright
17:30 wayland76 I met a friend that I rarely see, and he said I now look like a jazz musician
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17:32 wayland76 I'm wondering if other geeks do something similar sometime between the ages of 25 and 35
17:33 PerlJam only the insane ones.
17:34 wayland76 Well, maybe :)
17:34 wayland76 I didn't mean that we all end up looking like jazz musicians, just that we realise that appearance can be studied from a geek point of view
17:34 PerlJam The phenomenon  you're referring to is just that geeks are typically late (if ever) bloomers, in general.
17:38 wayland76 you mean, late or early, depending on topic and interest?
17:39 PerlJam geeks are typically intellectually advanced as compared with their peers, but often physically/emotionally retarded by comparison.
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17:45 wayland76 Oh, of course :).  I know that, I was just thinking too ... specifically.  Maybe I shouldn't think out loud at 3am :)
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18:53 PhatEddy rakudo: say ("a" .. "z")[0]
18:53 p6eval rakudo a4535c: OUTPUT«a␤»
18:54 PhatEddy Anyone around to close RT 61848 if such is merited? (http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=61848)
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19:00 Tene PhatEddy: I've resolved it.  Thanks.
19:00 PerlJam Was there also a test for it?
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19:08 PhatEddy I found one at the end of t/spec/S02-builtin_data_types/range.t I think ...
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21:51 omega I'm trying to get november (and as a dep html-template) to run, but I get the following error trying to make html-template: http://pastie.org/449183
21:51 wayland76 Don't forget to also ask on #november-wiki
21:51 omega ahh
21:51 wayland76 (although most of those people hang out here too)
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21:52 omega and I guess they will send me to #text-escape ? :p
21:52 wayland76 ...Or to buy a left-handed screwdriver :)
21:53 omega something like that :p
21:55 omega ohh well, I guess I can ask at the talk at npw tomorrow :p
21:55 omega just wanted to read up and look at it
21:55 cspencer perl6: my $s = "abcde"; my $p = "XxXxX"; say $s.samecase($p)
21:56 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Str: "&samecase"␤    at /tmp/Juz6UkqIpn line 1, column 39 - line 2, column 1␤»
21:56 p6eval ..rakudo a4535c: OUTPUT«Method 'samecase' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤current instr.: 'parrot;P6metaclass;dispatch' pc 644 (src/classes/ClassHOW.pir:163)␤»
21:56 p6eval ..elf 26238: OUTPUT«Can't locate object method "samecase" via package "abcde" (perhaps you forgot to load "abcde"?) at (eval 125) line 5.␤ at ./elf_h line 5881␤»
21:56 wayland76 best thing to do.  The IRC channels are relatively dead with NPW on
21:56 cspencer perl6: my $s = "abcde"; my $p = "XxXxX"; say samecase($s, $p)
21:56 p6eval rakudo a4535c: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub samecase␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 101 (EVAL_17:52)␤»
21:56 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&samecase"␤    at /tmp/uOPPIU6i6l line 1, column 39 - line 2, column 1␤»
21:56 p6eval ..elf 26238: OUTPUT«Undefined subroutine &GLOBAL::samecase called at (eval 125) line 5.␤ at ./elf_h line 5881␤»
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21:59 jnthn I think there wasn't wifi at the NPW.
21:59 jnthn Can't say I've missed it though.
22:03 omega there was some sometimes
22:04 jnthn ah
22:04 jnthn I didn't notice it the times I had my laptop open and didn't look much the other times...
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