Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-04-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:20 skids Should zip return lvalues?  How do you prototype that -- is rw would apply to the returned List, not the elements, correct?
01:21 skids List of Capture of Object is rw?
01:22 skids Or do we not have to specify that...
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02:59 azawawi good morning
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03:59 azawawi moritz_: ping
04:00 azawawi TimToady: ping
04:02 azawawi TimToady: is it okay to prefix each STD error/warning with an "error" or "warning" so that we can filter them?
04:02 azawawi @tell TimToady is it okay to prefix each STD error/warning with an "error" or "warning" so that we can filter them?
04:02 lambdabot Consider it noted.
04:09 skids rakudo: sub f ($g is rw) is rw { my $b; $b := $g; return $b; }; my $d = "OH NOES"; my $c := f($d); $c = "OH HAI"; $d.say
04:09 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
04:09 skids rakudo: sub f ($g is rw)  { my $b; $b := $g; return $b; }; my $d = "OH NOES"; my $c := f($d); $c = "OH HAI"; $d.say
04:09 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
04:09 skids rakudo: sub f ($g) is rw  { my $b; $b := $g; return $b; }; my $d = "OH NOES"; my $c := f($d); $c = "OH HAI"; $d.say
04:09 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to readonly variable.␤current instr.: 'die' pc 17536 (src/builtins/control.pir:225)␤»
04:14 skids rakudo: sub f (@g is rw) { my $b; $b := @g[0]; return $b; }; my @d = <OH NOES>; my $c := f(@d); $c = "OH HAI"; @d.say
04:14 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«OH HAINOES␤»
04:14 skids rakudo: sub f (@g is rw) { my @b; @b[] := @g[]; return @b; }; my @d = <OH NOES>; my @c := f(@d); @c[0] = "OH HAI"; @d.say
04:14 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«rtype not set␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:104)␤»
04:15 * skids ponders
04:21 skids rakudo: my @a = <a b c>; my @b; @b[0] := @a[0]; @b[0] = 1; @a.say
04:21 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«rtype not set␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:104)␤»
04:22 skids hah.  Had nothing to do with the lvalue sub I was trying to make :-)
04:23 skids rakudo you minx
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04:25 skids rakudo: my $a = 1; my @b; @b[0] := $a; @b[0] = 2; $a.say
04:25 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«rtype not set␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:104)␤»
04:28 skids found RT#61412
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05:07 pugs_svn r26387 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] Released 0.043 to CPAN which includes now line number info in tokens()
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05:16 pugs_svn r26388 | szabgab++ | Smart::Links separate the code to process_perl5_file
05:21 pugs_svn r26389 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] Updated pod for tokens
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06:07 pugs_svn r26390 | szabgab++ | Smart::Link move the Pod::Simple::HTML usage to more prominent place, reduce the usage of syn
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06:15 azawawi moritz_: ping
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06:16 pugs_svn r26391 | szabgab++ | Smart::Links use write_file everywhere
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06:27 moritz_ good morning
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06:44 pugs_svn r26392 | moritz++ | [t/spec] test for RT #64090, type Regex on variables
06:57 moritz_ rakudo: given 'foo' { if /bar/ { say "FAIL" } }
06:57 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in isa_pmc()␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Match;new' pc 33 (compilers/pge/PGE/Match.pir:64)␤»
06:59 pugs_svn r26393 | moritz++ | [t/spec] test for RT #64330
07:02 pugs_svn r26394 | moritz++ | [t/spec] one more test for RT #64330
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07:03 pugs_svn r26395 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fix RT #64330 tests - where did i have my mind?
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08:06 aff How should I name a Perl 6 port of an existing CPAN module?
08:06 moritz_ just like the Perl 5 module
08:07 moritz_ unless you can think of a better name
08:07 aff I just wondered if there were any conventions to follow.
08:07 moritz_ since we can't upload Perl 6 modules to CPAN in any meaningful way right now, there's no need for a separate name
08:08 aff Ok
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08:08 aff So basically I can just upload to github and leave it there, is that "the right thing" to do?
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08:10 moritz_ yes
08:11 moritz_ and tell masak about it, so he can tell proto how to download and install it
08:11 aff moritz Ok Thanks
08:12 aff It's just a port of Statistics::Lite on CPAN, but one has to start somewhere..
08:12 moritz_ aff: see http://github.com/masak/proto/blob/42e393599bcad5747ce8f918a4877f0bd6df3d41/PIONEER for what you need to make your package proto-installable (not very much)
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08:13 azawawi moritz_: hi
08:13 moritz_ hi azawawi
08:14 azawawi mortiz_: how r u you?
08:15 moritz_ fine, and a bit busy
08:17 azawawi i have been developing an outline tree view for Padre Perl6 plugin and i need your help in classifying stuff in perl6
08:18 moritz_ sure
08:19 azawawi for perl5, we have methods, pragmata (use strict) and modules (use ....) which are under package-s
08:20 azawawi it is kind of of clicking on the item to get you there on the editor...
08:20 moritz_ really methods? or subs?
08:20 * azawawi uploads a tree view picture... brb
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08:27 masak oh hai, givencamels.
08:28 moritz_ good ::Temporal masak :-)
08:29 masak :)
08:29 masak I dropped out suddenly yesterday evening, due to the unreliable nature of the wifi connection I'm piggybacking on.
08:31 masak I'll backlog and see if you reached some sort of conclusion over the '-> Object @x' thing.
08:32 aff Hi masak: May I ask a makefile question?
08:32 masak aff: absolutely.
08:32 masak this sounds like a wtop.
08:32 aff I downloaded rakudo with parrot the other day.
08:32 aff The symlink to Test.pm isn't matching the sources.
08:33 aff I can't see the languages/rakudo/ directory
08:33 masak ah.
08:33 masak which symlink would that be?
08:33 masak the one from November?
08:33 aff yes
08:33 masak aff: yes, that's bad. and wrong.
08:33 aff I have multiple others, e.g. ./parrot/lib/Parrot/Test.pm
08:34 aff Which one should I use?
08:34 masak .../rakudo/Test.pm
08:34 aff Ok thanks
08:34 masak the symlinking business isn't optimal.
08:35 masak I'd be very happy if the fallout from the module discussions were that that workaround went away.
08:35 aff It died on me since it created a symlink to a non-existing file, thus the !-e test fails.
08:36 aff Not a big deal of course.
08:37 masak well, I'd like for it to work on all Rakudo setups.
08:37 masak so, thanks for the heads-up.
08:37 masak aff++
08:37 aff masak: No problem. BTW: Thanks for coming to NPW, I enjoyed your talk.
08:38 masak glad to hear it.
08:38 masak it definitely gave me a taste for more.
08:38 masak I've now submitted two talks to YAPC::EU. :)
08:39 aff Traveling the world eh?
08:39 masak it's only Portugal. but yes. :)
08:42 pugs_svn r26396 | wollmers++ | change chr() to one positional parameter
08:42 pugs_svn r26396 | wollmers++ | remove rakudo skip
08:42 azawawi moritz_: http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/Padre-Plugin-Perl6.png
08:43 azawawi moritz_: sorry for keeping you waiting :)
08:43 azawawi hi masak
08:43 masak azawawi: oh hai
08:44 moritz_ azawawi: please distinguish between subs and methods
08:45 azawawi moritz_: so separate methods and subs. check.
08:45 masak could do them in similar colors, but still distinct.
08:46 masak like blue and purple, or something.
08:47 azawawi masak: sure
08:47 azawawi my question here is what categories are needed to be under class/package/role/...etc
08:48 azawawi catogories that are useful ofcourse to the programmer in perl 6
08:48 moritz_ azawawi: STD.pm contains a complete list
08:48 masak I wouldn't mind seeing those in the same colour.
08:49 azawawi moritz_: *_declarator then
08:49 moritz_ grep for package_declarator, yes
08:50 * azawawi takes a look at STD.pm
08:50 pugs_svn r26397 | wollmers++ | remove rakudo skip
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08:54 azawawi moritz_: and to find modules, i need to grep for 'require' and 'use'. anything else?
08:54 moritz_ azawawi: not that I'm aware of
08:55 azawawi moritz_: cool
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08:58 azawawi masak: where can i find the latest november source code? i want to test it against my outline view :)
08:58 moritz_ github/viklund/november
08:59 masak aye, http://github.com/viklund/november/
08:59 azawawi thx
09:01 azawawi moritz_: one more thing on my todo list, differentiating between STD.pm errors and warnings. We need a prefix.
09:02 aff masak: Whenever you have a minute to spare, please check if http://github.com/aff/statistics-lite/tree/master builds with proto.
09:02 masak aff: sure thing.
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09:51 masak moritz_: great blog post http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/writing-perl6-now.html -- '[doc://List::MoreUtils]::natatime' looks like leakage; is it?
09:53 literal also [mod://Moose] and [mod://MooseX::Role::Parameterized]
09:54 masak lunch &
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10:05 * frettled ehvilly edited the Wikipedia entry for ST to mention Perl 6 and reference the blog entry.
10:07 azawawi moritz_: cool blog post. very nice.
10:07 azawawi moritz_: i got confused however on the '$bailout.pay-tax();'
10:08 azawawi moritz_: kinda confusing for the dash to be in the method name
10:09 aff moritz++
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10:41 moritz_ masak: yes, I'll fix that
10:45 moritz_ masak: I originally wrote it for perlmonks, but then decided that my blog is the better place
10:45 masak ah.
10:45 masak aye, probably.
10:46 masak you can always link to it from perlmonks.
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10:55 moritz_ ok, links fixed
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10:58 masak from http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2009-04-23#i_1089233 I conclude that the failing line of code in November is due to a bug in November, not in Rakudo. at least as things stand right now.
10:58 masak jnthn: ping
10:59 jnthn masak: oh hai
10:59 masak jnthn: I'll try and summarize, and you can just answer true or false... I mean 1 or 0.
10:59 jnthn maybe
10:59 masak :)
10:59 jnthn er, 0.5?
10:59 jnthn ;-)
11:00 masak (0.5 is the answer to Epimenides paradox)
11:00 azawawi moritz_, masak: http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/Padre-Plugin-Perl6-2.png
11:00 masak jnthn: one cannot expect 'for @x -> Object $x' to work, if @x is just an untyped Array, and not Array[Object].
11:01 masak azawawi: very, very cool.
11:01 jnthn masak: false
11:02 azawawi masak: thx
11:02 masak jnthn: sounds promising.
11:02 jnthn masak: the -> Object $x { ... } is just a signature.
11:02 masak right.
11:02 moritz_ azawawi: very nice. However I'd put regex, token and rule into the same category, because you use them the same way
11:02 jnthn erm, well, the Object $x within there is anyway.
11:02 masak rakudo: my @x = 1,2,3; for @x -> Object $x {}
11:02 azawawi moritz_: sure
11:02 p6eval rakudo 9a5305:  ( no output )
11:02 moritz_ azawawi: a token { ... } is just a regex { :ratchet ... }
11:02 masak oh! that didn't work yesterday...
11:03 masak rakudo: for 1,2,3 -> Object $x {}
11:03 p6eval rakudo 9a5305:  ( no output )
11:03 moritz_ masak: really? I thought it only failed with a @ sigil?
11:03 masak moritz_: oh, right.
11:03 masak rakudo: for [1],[2],[3] -> Object @x {}
11:03 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«Non-Positional argument or Positional of wrong element type for @x in call to _block31␤current instr.: 'die' pc 17536 (src/builtins/control.pir:225)␤»
11:03 masak yah, that's the one.
11:03 masak jnthn: I'll retroactively change my question to this one.
11:04 jnthn masak: Ah, I think that's related to the bug I think moritz reported yesterday.
11:04 masak quite possibly.
11:04 jnthn rakudo: say [1] ~~ Positional[Object]
11:04 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«0␤»
11:04 masak I dropped off the net, so I couldn't report.
11:04 jnthn ^^ That's incorrect.
11:04 masak oh, good.
11:04 jnthn So once that is fixed, your other example shoudl work.
11:04 * masak wishes he'd have caught that before the release
11:05 jnthn I'm 90% certain they boil down to the same thing
11:05 masak I should run the November tests more often.
11:05 moritz_ masak: you should automate the test run
11:05 masak moritz_: great idea.
11:06 masak as it is now, we're stuck with either working around this in Bratislava, or giving up our target-monthlies regime.
11:10 wayland76 ημμ (hmm :) )
11:11 azawawi moritz_: Based on your input here is the updated Padre Perl 6 plugin screenshot. http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/Padre-Plugin-Perl6-3.png
11:11 moritz_ azawawi: nice
11:12 masak azawawi++
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11:13 jnthn masak: Consider that Object @x is exactly the same (once Rakudo is corrected) as @x
11:13 iListenU Where can be problem? here's: http://parduoduv.puslapiai.lt/ (in top)? What i need to do to solve it??
11:13 jnthn Since Object is the default type of @x
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11:14 masak jnthn: right.
11:14 masak could have been Any.
11:14 azawawi moritz_: the line number info in STD.pm is working as expected. Now clicking on each leaf in the tree highlights the corresponding line in the editor.
11:14 jnthn So writing -> Object @x { } is redundant.
11:14 masak jnthn: we are using it in November in one place to avoid autothreading.
11:14 jnthn -> @x { } means the same
11:14 jnthn Ah, OK.
11:14 masak jnthn: but ISTR that Object became the new default anyway, so you're right.
11:14 jnthn Yes.
11:15 masak there's a comment to that effect by ihrd in that code.
11:15 moritz_ Object as default isn't implemented
11:15 moritz_ afaict
11:15 moritz_ or is it?
11:15 masak rakudo: for [1], [2|3], [4] -> @a { say @a.perl }
11:15 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«[1]␤Cannot reduce() empty list␤[]␤[4]␤»
11:16 masak that's an odd error.
11:16 moritz_ rakudo: -> $x { say $x.WHAT }.(1|2)
11:16 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«Int␤Int␤No exception handler and no message␤current instr.: 'return' pc 17196 (src/builtins/control.pir:39)␤»
11:16 masak rakudo: for [1], [2|3], [4] -> @a { say @a.elems }
11:16 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«1␤1␤1␤»
11:16 masak seems it doesn't autothread, so I guess I can remove it.
11:16 moritz_ but you see, scalars are still Any typed
11:17 masak right.
11:17 moritz_ rakudo: for [1], [2]|[3], [4] -> @a { say @a.elems }
11:17 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«1␤Non-Positional argument or Positional of wrong element type for @a in call to _block34␤current instr.: 'die' pc 17536 (src/builtins/control.pir:225)␤»
11:18 moritz_ bug?
11:18 moritz_ don't know about junctions and arrays...
11:19 * masak submits, just in case
11:21 masak aff: statistics-lite downloads just fine, but doesn't build on my box. I think there are still some glitches in proto preventing build. will look at it in the evening.
11:21 masak aff: statistics-lite is now in the projects.list in proto, and you're now a certified proto committer. welcome aboard!
11:22 aff masak: Thanks, let me know if there are any bugs on my side.
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11:23 masak aff: will do. haven't actually looked at the code, but will review it when time permits.
11:55 aff Hmm is parrot broken?
11:55 aff error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected VAR, expecting '(' ('sub') in file 'src/builtins/guts.pir' line 1362
11:55 aff Parrot r38276
11:56 wayland76 aff: Have you asked on the #parrot channel?  (irc.parrot.org)
11:56 aff wayland76: Not yet
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11:59 moritz_ azawawi: what are you trying to do?
11:59 moritz_ sorry, I meant aff
11:59 moritz_ that usually happens when some dynops aren't build or can't be found
11:59 aff Simply build latest rakudo.
12:00 moritz_ aff: try a 'make clean' in rakudo after building parrot
12:01 aff moritz: Thanks I'll try that.
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12:03 aff moritz: 'make clean' fixed it. Thanks again.
12:05 wollmers std: $x = 'SPACE'; "\c[$x]";
12:05 p6eval std 26397: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤  Variable $x is not predeclared at /tmp/SxaKI3Y1hs line 1:␤------> [32m$x[31m = 'SPACE'; "\c[$x]";[0m␤ok 00:04 36m␤»
12:06 masak std: my $x = 'SPACE'; "\c[$x]";
12:06 p6eval std 26397: OUTPUT«ok 00:04 36m␤»
12:06 wollmers rakudo:  my $x = 'SPACE'; "\c[$x]";
12:06 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«perl6regex parse error: Unrecognized character name $x at offset 21, found '$'␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE;Perl6Regex;parse_error' pc 10792 (compilers/pge/PGE/Perl6Regex.pir:1367)␤»
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12:07 masak wollmers: please submit a rakudobug.
12:07 wollmers need to look in specs first
12:07 masak fine.
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12:10 wollmers masak: AFAIK there is nothing like get_charnames_from_string(), should also be specified
12:11 masak wollmers: pmichaud and I were talking about that in the weekend.
12:11 masak wollmers: the conclusion was that yes, there's a hole in the spec there.
12:11 masak pmichaud said, basically, "write the spec and I will implement it".
12:12 masak I didn't get around to patching the spec during the hackathon, and when I later looked at it, it looked complicated.
12:12 masak the method should really reside on something like Char, I think.
12:12 masak but I don't know my Unicode well enough to be certain.
12:15 wollmers masak: what do you need? It is just like .ord
12:15 masak wollmers: aye, in effect it is.
12:16 masak wollmers: maybe we should just start simple and put it on Str.
12:16 masak have it return an array of charnames.
12:18 wollmers masak: yes, array is fine.
12:19 wollmers masak: should'nt .ord also return an array?
12:19 masak um, I meant List, I think.
12:19 masak wollmers: aye. see the spec. :)
12:21 wollmers masak: ord in rakudo only returns the first char
12:21 masak so it does.
12:22 masak Rakudo doesn't conform to spec in that instance.
12:22 masak S29:298.
12:22 wollmers masak: known bug?
12:23 masak wollmers: maybe not. also rakudobug-submittable if you want.
12:29 pmichaud good morning
12:30 wayland76 'morning
12:30 aff Good afternoon
12:30 wayland76 Just a comment on the recent discussion; I suspect that the get_char_names whatever should be on Any
12:31 wayland76 And it should probably just be called Any.charnames or something
12:31 wayland76 (pm: that was all directed at masak/wollmers, but no doubt will interest you)
12:32 pmichaud wayland76: it definitely interests me, but I'll wait for the movi... er, spec.
12:32 pmichaud :-)
12:32 masak :)
12:32 * masak likes charnames
12:32 masak might spec it too, if I can be bothered.
12:32 pmichaud I think charnames sounds very reasonable.
12:32 masak if someone else beats me to it, that's fine too.
12:33 pmichaud I wonder if I should upgrade my desktop to 9.04 today.
12:39 aff pmichaud: I had no issues upgrading 8.10 -> 9.04 the other day.
12:41 pmichaud I've been testing out 9.04 on my laptop, it's working quite nicely.  I'm definitely switching my laptop to 9.04, so I'm thinking I should do the same for my desktop.
12:41 pmichaud also it looks like I can go back to 64-bit (yay!)
12:44 masak time to go study Chinese.
12:45 patmat hmm pmichaud so Ubuntu 9.04 is great? downloaded it today
12:46 pmichaud patmat: I'm on kubuntu, actually.
12:46 pmichaud For me it's good because it unlocks some of the hardware in my laptop (that wasn't working under 8.04)
12:46 patmat oh you like KDE?
12:47 pmichaud yes, I've tended to go with KDE.  Never got the hang of gnome, and when I looked at Ubuntu 9.04 beta it wouldn't install on my laptop (wouldn't even boot completely from the cd)
12:47 pmichaud I'm sure it's fixed now with Ubuntu 9.04 non-beta, but since KDE seems to be working I'll probably go with ti.
12:47 pmichaud *it
12:48 patmat its okay then, i prefer Gnome :)
12:48 patmat but at the moment i'm using NetBSD with fluxbox anyway
12:48 moritz_ for me a window manager + desktop may not take more than 5 seconds start up time
12:48 patmat but i'm a bit annoyed, think about it to change to Ubuntu..
12:49 pmichaud I've liked (k)ubuntu a lot since I first installed it in 2007.  Haven't had a reason to switch back to anything else (having done RH, SUSE, Fedora previously)
12:50 patmat FC is also nice, i tested it once.. hmm just a matter of taste
12:50 pmurias joined #perl6
12:52 aff Time to go, have a nice weekend all.
12:53 aff left #perl6
12:55 patmat pmichaud: i'm interested in CentOS too, did you gave it a try?
12:55 azawawi joined #perl6
12:56 pmichaud patmat: no, haven't tried CentOS.  Several others I work with use it though.
12:57 wayland76 I'm on Fedora/CentOS
12:57 wayland76 And E17 :)
12:57 frettled Debian etch and lenny, MacOS X 10.4.x, Windows XP here.  (main platforms)
12:58 patmat just know a nice Administrator, he loves the CentOS on servers and Fedora on WS combination
12:58 frettled But the server environment at work also includes Slackware 12 + slamd 12.
12:58 patmat runs well
12:58 frettled slamd64 12, sorry
12:58 patmat have to run crappy WinXP at work..
12:58 patmat it's so annoying
13:02 ejs2 joined #perl6
13:03 jnthn Could be worse. You could have to run Vista. ;-P
13:04 wayland76 jnthn: I was going to say that :).  Or 98 :)
13:05 LylePerl joined #perl6
13:05 jnthn Or ME. Horrors.
13:05 patmat errr no luck for me its not vista
13:05 patmat yes ME is the worst i think
13:05 patmat had it as a kid for games
13:05 pmichaud 3.1
13:05 patmat it crashed always and then it just was unbootable... first and last time with ME :P
13:06 wayland76 I still remember DOS 2.13 :)
13:06 azawawi what's the default package in perl6? main?
13:06 moritz_ Main I think
13:06 wayland76 Yeah, ME was worse than 98
13:06 patmat i mean i did nothing, just wanted to play some games ;D
13:06 patmat everything went to hell with it :D
13:07 wayland76 probably MAIN rather than Main, yes?
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13:08 moritz_ no
13:08 pmichaud "main"
13:08 pmichaud oh, "main" if P5
13:08 moritz_ rakudo: sub f { say "m" }; module Bar { Main::f }
13:08 pmichaud otherwise they're in the GLOBAL package
13:09 p6eval rakudo 9a5305: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤current instr.: 'parrot;Bar;_block33' pc 250 (EVAL_20:107)␤»
13:09 pmichaud Rakudo doesn't implement this yet.
13:09 pmichaud S10:66
13:09 pmichaud All files start out being parsed in the C<GLOBAL>
13:09 pmichaud package, but may switch to some other package scope depending on the first
13:09 pmichaud package-ish declaration.
13:10 wayland76 Well, I was right about the capital letters, anyway :)
13:10 pmichaud (The spec on this has changed since the last time that Rakudo investigated what it should do here.)
13:10 azawawi so "GLOBAL" in P6 and "main" in P5
13:11 azawawi thx
13:18 ascent_ moritz_: you can close RT #64452.
13:20 moritz_ ascent_: you're right, I tested that a few hours ago :)
13:22 PerlJam good localtime #perl6
13:22 exodist joined #perl6
13:22 moritz_ hijo PerlJam
13:28 davidad joined #perl6
13:29 pmichaud good morning, PerlJam
13:31 wayland76 o/
13:32 moritz_ in a bit less than one year I'll have been a #perl6 camel for π years :-)
13:35 moritz_ I see that masak is way past that #perl6 age :-)
13:35 bacek__ joined #perl6
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13:45 jnthn http://blog.cyclone3.org/rfordinal/176_bratislava.pm-a-rakudo-perl-6-bratislava.html
13:47 pmichaud :-)
13:47 pmichaud jnthn: so, do you give the presentations in english?
13:47 pmichaud or just the slides?
13:47 jnthn pmichaud: Yeah, English.
13:47 jnthn My Slovak aint' up to giving a presentation yet.
13:48 jnthn Certainly not a 30 minute one anyway.
13:48 pmichaud have you decided what to present at YAPC::EU yet?
13:48 jnthn No
13:48 pmichaud I'm also curious what masak++ has submitted :-)
13:52 meteorjay joined #perl6
13:52 pmichaud I think I'll give a talk on Perl 6 regexes and grammars
13:52 jnthn Sounds good.
13:52 jnthn I already did talk about the OO stuff and types last year.
13:52 jnthn Now you did the Regex thing maybe I can write Grammar::Generate. ;-)
13:52 pmichaud for YAPC::NA they've only got 45 minutes slots.  So I took my "Perl 6 today" talk (which really wants 90 minutes) and broke it into two :-)
13:53 moritz_ :-)
13:54 azawawi moritz_: finally http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/Padre-Plugin-Perl6-4.png. package_declarator:* and regexp_declarator:* are now fully supported with GLOBAL.
13:55 moritz_ neat.
13:56 km2 joined #perl6
13:56 azawawi moritz_: now off to scope-d declarators in Padre perl6 :)
13:57 justatheory joined #perl6
13:57 azawawi moritz_: the next thing im thinking of is the same tree for the full html mode in Syntax::Highlight::Perl6
13:58 PerlJam from a "marketing" standpoint ... I wouldn't mind all of the unimplemented stuff in rakudo so much if the error messages were nicer.  (but maybe that's just me)
13:59 alester joined #perl6
14:00 PerlJam For instance, when I first tried ruby, there was so many things that caused it to barf, it wasn't even funny.  But I never thought "oh, this is just something that's not yet implemented" because the error messages were decent (if uninformative).  Rakudo can go one better and give decent and informative error messages instead of just dumping.
14:01 PerlJam (I don't know if I'm making enough sense)
14:01 moritz_ PerlJam++
14:03 PerlJam It's the difference between, "oh, this doesn't work"  and "here be dragons!"
14:03 azawawi yeah sounds nice...
14:08 ispy_ left #perl6
14:13 pmichaud PerlJam: it's often hard to put in "not yet implemented" stuff, though.
14:13 pmichaud But I'd be very accepting of patches that provide more useful/informative error messages.
14:14 skids joined #perl6
14:17 wayland76 Before we can use STD, we need LTM, right?
14:17 pmichaud and other things too.
14:17 pmichaud but it's not just STD.
14:18 pmichaud LTM is _a_ blocker for STD, but it's certainly not the only one.
14:18 ispy_ joined #perl6
14:21 wayland76 Yeah, I figured that, Thanks :)
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14:42 TimToady rehi
14:42 lambdabot TimToady: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
14:42 TimToady @messages
14:42 lambdabot azawawi said 10h 39m 12s ago: is it okay to prefix each STD error/warning with an "error" or "warning" so that we can filter them?
14:43 TimToady azawawi: I don't like error/warning prefixes on aesthetic grounds, especially since many of our errors and warnings are multiline these days
14:43 TimToady and filtration really ought to be handled by an internal mechanism somehow
14:44 nbrown joined #perl6
14:46 pmichaud TimToady: wb
14:46 TimToady In fact, we need a mechanism for generating full error reports to an html file or some such, with a link in the short error message to "more info"
14:47 sbp *cough* æsthetic *cough*
14:48 PerlJam americans are allergic to ligatures ;)
14:48 TimToady I use Texas ligatures.  :)
14:49 lumi joined #perl6
14:50 wayland76 æh well :)
14:50 DemoFreak joined #perl6
14:51 sbp hehe
14:52 TimToady what I can't stand is software that turns Texas smileys into ligature smileys... :)
14:53 pmichaud why doesn't unicode have more smileys?
14:53 TimToady Unicode tends to see things in black and white
14:54 wayland76
14:55 TimToady I always thought that ligature was for people who can't make up their mind whether they mean !? or ?!
14:55 wayland76 Someone recently suggested that it should mean "What on earth...?"
14:55 TimToady and usually I mean !?! or ?!?!?! in any case
14:56 wayland76 Well, the second could be ‽‽‽
14:56 pmichaud and bangs a shoe on the table.
14:56 sbp I use ㋡ sometimes
14:56 sbp I know I shouldn’t…
14:57 sbp there is that Japanese postal sign too, a stylised face
14:57 wayland76
14:57 cognominal joined #perl6
14:58 sbp .u postal mark face
14:58 phenny U+3020 POSTAL MARK FACE (〠)
14:59 TimToady Agh, I'm using Kochi Gothic, why doesn't it have those characters!?!?!!!
15:00 wayland76 I'm using a font called "SimPL"
15:01 wayland76 It doesn't do the interrobang, or sbp's first symbol, but it does the others
15:01 TimToady gah, neither does bitstream
15:01 sbp U+3020 was added in Unicode 1.1.0 (1993)
15:02 wayland76 Oh, just switched everything to Linux Libertine, and they all show up
15:02 sbp seems that Kochi Gothic post-dates that, so no excuse there
15:02 wayland76 (Linux Libertine is a free font)
15:02 sbp Libertine: yeah, nice serif
15:02 TimToady don't like serifs
15:03 ZuLuuuuuu joined #perl6
15:03 sbp hmm. I've got U+3020 in AppleGothic, Arial Unicode, Hiragino (several), and Osaka
15:03 wayland76 Oh, wait, sbp's first one still isn't showing up
15:03 sbp what about those new trendy semi-serifs? Optima and the like
15:03 wayland76 sbp: What are you using there?
15:04 sbp doing where? the “I use ㋡ sometimes” line?
15:04 sbp U+32E1 CIRCLED KATAKANA TU if so
15:05 wayland76 sbp: I meant what font.  That character shows up as a box with an X in it
15:06 sbp oh, only Arial Unicode and Hiragino there
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15:06 wayland76 SimPL has serifs, but it's fixed-width
15:06 wayland76 Ok
15:06 sbp I've got all kinds of supposedly unicode replete fonts, but it's amazing how little coverage there is on some of these characters
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15:43 azawawi moritz_: ping
15:43 moritz_ azawawi: echo response
15:43 azawawi moritz_: method set-cache-entry( $key, $value ) { ... }
15:44 azawawi moritz_: set-cache-entry is seen as 5 tokens from redspans
15:44 azawawi moritz_: ouch :)
15:45 moritz_ azawawi: tell that TimToady, not me ;-)
15:47 azawawi @tell TimToady set-cache-entry is seen as 5 tokens, http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/test.html
15:47 lambdabot Consider it noted.
15:47 azawawi moritz_: i knew those dashes would come back to haunt me :)
15:48 TimToady I just ran viv on that, and it's one entry
15:48 lambdabot TimToady: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
15:48 TimToady please don't use @tell if I'm logged on--I backlog
15:48 TimToady @clear
15:48 lambdabot Messages cleared.
15:48 azawawi TimToady: noted :)
15:48 moritz_ azawawi: I see no 'show syntax tree' button on that page
15:48 TimToady but my version of viv is a bit divergent at the moment
15:49 TimToady and in fact, you should probably snapshot your current version and turn it into a .pm
15:49 TimToady because viv is moving toward a model in which every rule gets its own VAST class
15:49 TimToady so infix__Tilde derives from infix, for instance
15:50 TimToady or you can wait and resync to that model
15:50 TimToady but viv is still aiming to replace gimme5
15:50 jedai joined #perl6
15:50 azawawi moritz_: fixing it... damn save-as feature
15:51 jan_ joined #perl6
15:51 TimToady anyway, my viv just says:
15:51 TimToady .: &8 !!perl/hash:VAST::identifier TEXT: set-cache-entry
15:53 moritz_ std: 3 but { method foo { } }
15:54 p6eval std 26397: OUTPUT«TRIE failed at Cursor.pm line 804.␤FAILED 00:02 34m␤»
15:54 azawawi TimToady, moritz_: here is the fixed version. http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/test2.html
15:54 moritz_ ouch
15:55 TimToady lex/ rot, perhaps
15:55 TimToady works here
15:55 * azawawi clears lex
15:55 * moritz_ rebuilds
15:56 moritz_ TimToady: I found that in an example is S02, but it's not stated explicit anywhere... is the closure treated as an anonymous role?
15:57 moritz_ he, the dash is matched by the rule apostrophe ;-)
15:58 azawawi TimToady: nop no lex rotting over here. same result.
15:59 * azawawi wishes that perl6 .pm files would be called .pm6 or something
15:59 PerlJam azawawi: so call them that
16:03 azawawi PerlJam: we use 'use v6' to detect whether a .pm is p5/p6 in Padre.  However, in November it is missing in some parts.
16:04 PerlJam oh, so patch november and add the "use v6;"
16:04 moritz_ azawawi: also 'grammar', 'class' and 'module' introduce Perl 6 code
16:04 pasteling "azawawi" at 212.38.137.139 pasted "Padre P6/P5 detection code" (11 lines, 306B) at http://sial.org/pbot/36186
16:04 moritz_ if it's the first statement in that file
16:05 moritz_ return 1 if $text =~ /^\s*(?:class|grammar|module)\s+\w/msx;
16:05 azawawi moritz_: or role
16:05 PerlJam that check for =head[12]  seems wrong to me.  what's the logic there?
16:05 moritz_ right.
16:06 PerlJam will perl 6 code not have =head1 in it?
16:06 moritz_ it may
16:06 moritz_ =begin POD
16:06 moritz_ =head1 foo
16:06 moritz_ =end POD
16:06 PerlJam right, so that check probably shouldn't be there
16:07 pugs_svn r26398 | lwall++ | [STD] build caps correctly for chained and list prec
16:07 pugs_svn r26398 | lwall++ | [gimme5] don't use autoquoted hash subscripts
16:07 pugs_svn r26398 | lwall++ | [viv] move toward class-per-rule VAST to preserve rule info better
16:07 PerlJam and I'm not sure that you can say it's perl6 code if it has "=begin pod" either.
16:08 azawawi nice im going to fix is_perl6() now
16:08 PerlJam azawawi: is there a git/svn repo for padre somewhere?  :)
16:09 azawawi PerlJam: http://svn.perlide.org/padre/trunk/Padre
16:10 azawawi PerlJam: http://svn.perlide.org/padre/trunk/ # if you need to see the plugins + Padre
16:11 wayland76 TimToady: Are you planning to offer an opinion on the Unicode bracketing question; whether Ps/Pe should also be treated as bracketing?
16:14 TimToady you mean beyond what S02:74 already says?
16:14 TimToady (still backlogging, btw)
16:14 azawawi TimToady: how does one detect STD.pm lex rotting?
16:15 TimToady rm -rf lex/
16:15 TimToady make
16:15 TimToady well, just touch STD.pm and make will do
16:15 [particle] or do you mean STD.pm is older than current spec?
16:15 TimToady my copy parses that code fine
16:15 [particle] that's detected by making sure tests are up to spec, and STD.pm parses them
16:16 wayland76 Whoops, sorry, I meant Pi/Pf.  I asked a question on the mailing list about it -- if you haven't gotten to that yet, that's fine :)
16:19 azawawi TimToady: like a $VERSION for the lex directory that each newer STD.pm updates to determine whether to delete/use this lex directory or not.
16:20 [particle] i think that's just 'touch'
16:27 moritz_ std: 3 but { method foo { ... } }
16:27 p6eval std 26398: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
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16:35 pugs_svn r26399 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] simpler version naming schema; newer std.
16:42 pugs_svn r26400 | moritz++ | [t/spec] basic tests for Match.perl
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16:56 pugs_svn r26401 | lwall++ | [S02] also count Pi/Pf characters as bracketing, wayland76++
17:06 wayland76 Yay!
17:06 wayland76 :)
17:09 wayland76 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/category/Pi/list.htm for those interested
17:09 wayland76 Click on the "view" links to see any characters that don't show up in your font :)
17:10 moritz_ they all display here ;-)
17:11 pugs_svn r26402 | moritz++ | [t/spec] RT #63708
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17:16 ruoso Hello!
17:16 Auzon Hi ruoso :)
17:16 Auzon I hear we have a basic LWP::Simple now. Where does it live?
17:19 moritz_ probably on github :)
17:20 moritz_ aka "I don't know"
17:20 * Auzon looks around :)
17:20 moritz_ but I think andy blogged about it...
17:20 alester check the perlbuzz twitter feed
17:20 moritz_ http://use.perl.org/~cosimo/journal/38826
17:21 moritz_ @seen cosimo
17:21 lambdabot I saw cosimo leaving #perl6 6m 21d 5m 10s ago, and .
17:21 Auzon I think I may have found it in the pugs repo
17:22 dukeleto|work Auzon: link ?
17:22 wayland76 What about HTTP::Something in the November or Web.pm repo?
17:22 Auzon hah, no, the LWP in pugs is ancient
17:23 cdarroch joined #perl6
17:23 jnthn I didn't remember the code being published anywhere for that...
17:23 jnthn Or seeing it get put anywhere, anyway.
17:24 jnthn The sockets stuff in Rakudo that it uses got comitted.
17:24 Auzon Yeah, I saw socket stuff when I just built Rakudo
17:24 wayland76 I assumed masak had put the HTTP::Whatever stuff somewhere, but I guess I'm wrong
17:25 wayland76 Asking on #november-wiki might be an idea too (that tends to be the channel where web-related stuff gets discussed)
17:26 moritz_ nearly all November people are in here too
17:26 wayland76 ...nearly :)
17:26 wayland76 But it's easier to miss stuff in the backlog here
17:27 moritz_ aye
17:29 Auzon ok, I'll see if anyone in #november-wiki knows. Thanks :)
17:32 spx2 joined #perl6
17:33 spx2 is " tell" implemented for file descriptors open on pipes ?
17:33 payload joined #perl6
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17:38 Trey the modified cperl-mode for emacs in the pugs repo doesn't handle modern syntax anymore... with the earlier discussion of Syntax::Highlight::Perl6, I wondered if there's been any work on emacs?
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17:46 mikehh rakudo (9a53051) builds on parrot r38330 - make test/make spectest PASS - Ubuntu Jaunty i386
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17:48 skids any blog postings anywhere yet on all the interesting discussions at Oslo?
17:49 skids I'm sure more was done than deciding to kill the fish :-)
17:49 wayland76 What fish?
17:49 skids =<>
17:49 wayland76 Ah :)
17:50 wayland76 Fish is usually ><> I think :)
17:52 [particle] what's emacs?
17:54 wayland76 A text editor and operating system written in elisp
17:54 wayland76 (I exaggerate.  It's a text editor with a built in lisp programming language)
17:56 wayland76 It's one of the two primary text editors used on Unix systems, the other being called "vi"
17:57 wayland76 each text editor, and they have flame wars, like Ford vs. Holden (that's probably Ford vs. Chevvy in the US)
17:57 wayland76 That should have said each text editor has a reputation....
17:57 skids C-x ( M-x search-forward vi ^J DEL DEL very irritating ) C-u 1000 C-x e
17:58 skids :-)
17:58 wayland76 Skids is picking on emacs
17:58 skids picking on it?  I couldn't survive without it.
17:58 wayland76 As a nano user, I can stand back and ignore the text editor wars until I admit that I'm a nano user :)
17:59 * [particle] is a vi user since 1991 (now using gvim)
17:59 wayland76 Sorry, I didn't read carefully enough.  skids is implying that "vi" stands for "very irritating"
18:00 Trey skids: do you make do with cperl-mode getting all confused with perl 6, or do you just use plain text mode or something?
18:00 skids C-x C-v /usr/man/man1/vim.1 C-@ M-> C-k just type :q C-x C-s
18:00 pugs_svn r26403 | lwall++ | [S02] clarify the status of many-to-one bracketing
18:01 [particle] trey: i haven't seen any commits for emacs lately, they've all been vim-shaped
18:03 pugs_svn r26404 | lwall++ | [STD] tweak opener/closer tables to match S02
18:04 skids Trey: depends what I'm editing.  The pod problem is really annoying but if it doesn't have new pod in it...
18:05 skids then I M-X text-mode
18:05 skids (if there's new pod)
18:05 Trey it's nearly made we want to sit down and learn elisp.  nearly. :)
18:06 * skids has a sneaking suspicion he will understand LISP more the next time he tries... what with closure-heavy Perl6 running through his brain.
18:09 Trey besides the pods, parenless control structures and twigils are the places that cperl-mode gets most confused.  and unfortunately, once cperl-mode gets confused, you're best off just turning it off, it does more harm than good
18:10 skids Have you tried normal perl-mode?
18:10 Trey no, haven't used that in years.  i'll give it a try
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18:31 pugs_svn r26405 | ruoso++ | [re-mildew] CORE builds successfully.
18:31 pugs_svn r26405 | ruoso++ | [re-smop] add package and flattenedscope to s1p
18:35 ruoso pmurias, hi
18:40 cognominal joined #perl6
18:41 pmurias ruoso: hi
18:42 ruoso I think we're very close to end this refactoring
18:42 ruoso take a look at this last commit I made...
18:43 ruoso it fails with a call to BIND in a false
18:43 ruoso I presume something was supposed to return a hash bvalue
18:43 ruoso but is return a false instead
18:44 pmurias looking...
18:45 pmurias ruoso: when does it fail?
18:46 ruoso if you try to run "1;" in mildew
18:46 nbrown joined #perl6
18:46 ruoso it might be happening at the CORE loading
18:47 pmurias ruoso: you brought back NULL is equivalent to (SMOP__Object*) {NULL} when passed to capture_create?
18:50 ruoso hmm... I didn't actually realise you had removed that...
18:51 ruoso it simply failed and I "fixed" it ;)
18:51 ruoso but I can re-fix it
18:52 pmurias the BIND error is cause by some codes not having a singature
18:52 pmurias * caused
18:52 pmurias like sub foo {}
18:53 ruoso hmm...
18:53 TimToady std: say q‛foo’;
18:53 p6eval std 26405: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 35m␤»
18:53 ruoso so it's the default signature tat is broken
18:54 pmurias it's unported over
18:55 ruoso hmm... i think it's ok to port it
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19:01 meppl good night
19:01 maluco left #perl6
19:02 pugs_svn r26406 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] remove the NULL is (SMOP__Object*[]) {NULL} sugar in capture construction
19:02 wayland76 o/
19:05 pmurias ruoso: the alternative would be to have mildew supply a signature to all blocks
19:09 wayland76 std: su♭ foo {}
19:09 p6eval std 26406: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Syntax error (two terms in a row?) at /tmp/xdNB4ZoJ7G line 1:␤------> [32msu[31m♭ foo {}[0m␤    expecting any of:␤ POST␤   argument list␤      infix or meta-infix␤      infix stopper␤   postfix␤ postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤       standard stopper␤
19:09 p6eval .. statement modifier loop...
19:11 TimToady nice, try, but ♭ isn't a \w
19:12 TimToady s/,//
19:13 wayland76 Sorry, just trying to mess with people's minds :)
19:14 arnsholt wayland76: Yeah, I was wondering what the semantics of "su-flat" should be =)
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19:26 pmurias k
19:27 pmurias sorry
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19:45 pugs_svn r26407 | lwall++ | [camelia] remove opaque backlayers
19:49 nbrown_ joined #perl6
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19:49 pugs_svn r26408 | lwall++ | [p6-proj] use camelia with transparency
19:52 pugs_svn r26409 | lwall++ | [p6-proj] use 16x16 version to reduce blur
19:55 ruoso joined #perl6
19:57 * ruoso back
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20:04 pugs_svn r26410 | moritz++ | [t/spec] tests for RT #62162
20:11 moritz_ for the first time since January the RT queue of tickets I own is empty ;-)
20:12 jnthn moritz++
20:15 pugs_svn r26411 | lwall++ | [p6-proj] install better png of camelia
20:18 pugs_svn r26412 | pmurias++ | [re-mildew] a signature is emitted for every Code
20:18 pugs_svn r26412 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] fixed SMOP_HUNT_NULLS, update SMOP__NATIVE__create_create calls in package.ri
20:18 pmurias ruoso: do you think an $interpreter.return method is sensible
20:19 pmurias ?
20:20 rocket_guatemala joined #perl6
20:24 rocket_guatemala Hey how can I help.
20:25 rocket_guatemala A little more clarification: I've been using perl 5 for web devolopment here in Guatemala for a long time, and I would like to help make perl 6 a great language more quickly  ;)  My question is: is this still relevant: http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/test-suite-reorganization.writeback?
20:25 rocket_guatemala or is there other way to help that is more pressing?
20:25 hanekom__ joined #perl6
20:26 rocket_guatemala I would like to help with S19 and eventually do something like ruby's irb
20:26 jnthn hi rocket_guatemala! :-)
20:26 jnthn Yes, that post by moritz_ is almost certainly still relevant.
20:27 jnthn For example, S12-roles almost certainly should be S14-roles...
20:27 jnthn See also http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/t/TASKS
20:28 rocket_guatemala great
20:28 rocket_guatemala so ... ill look into it, another question:
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20:28 rocket_guatemala where and how should i send patches?
20:28 jnthn If you are doing renaming though, it would be highly useful if you could also get a checkout of Rakudo.
20:29 pugs_svn r26413 | lwall++ | [p6-proj] shrink camelia by 2
20:29 jnthn And make sure t/spectest.data tracks the changes.
20:29 jnthn The test suite has a very liberal commit bit policy. :-)
20:29 jnthn So if you bug someone like, say, moritz_, they can just give you a commit bit.
20:29 jnthn So no need to send patches.
20:29 TimToady who wants a commit bit?
20:30 rocket_guatemala nice
20:30 jnthn TimToady: rocket_guatemala would like to help with testing stuff and other bits
20:30 rocket_guatemala so, ill start haking and then bug someone when I got somethin done
20:30 jnthn Great. :-)
20:31 TimToady msg me your email and desired svn name
20:31 rocket_guatemala email: rocket@galileo.edu svn name: rocket
20:32 pugs_svn r26414 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] fix a bug in adhoc_signature`
20:32 ascent_ test suite for perl6 shouldn't be in another repo (not pugs) ? then used by build system for compilers (like rakudo) ?
20:33 TimToady commitbit sent
20:33 TimToady it's customary to add yourself to AUTHORS as first commit to test it
20:33 TimToady welcome aboard
20:34 ruoso pmurias, what do you mean?
20:34 rocket_guatemala great, thanks and thanks all for the great pointers, ill get started right away
20:35 rocket_guatemala and thanks for the commit bit, ill add myself to the authors when i got somethin done
20:35 skids ascent_: eventually implementation-common stuff may end up on github (user perl6) but that will happen when a majority of devels are sold on the idea.
20:36 pugs_svn r26415 | lwall++ | [p6-proj] shrink camelia in index.html too...
20:36 skids ascent_: As it is the pugs repository is easier to commit to.
20:37 moritz_ I'm thinking about moving the test suite out of the pugs repo, or maybe reorder that repo a bit, but it's nothing to hurry with
20:37 pmurias ruoso: a convenience method which would do all the $interpreter.goto($interpreter.continuation.back) stuff
20:37 ruoso maybe... yes...
20:37 moritz_ svn works fine for now, and those who love git (like me) can you git-svn
20:40 moritz_ TimToady: uhm, that looks crappy
20:40 moritz_ now it says width="502" but it's 252
20:41 moritz_ and btw I'm not too attached to the colours, feel free to improve them ;-)
20:41 pugs_svn r26416 | lwall++ | [p6-proj] gah, can't do math
20:42 TimToady should be better now
20:42 moritz_ it is.
20:42 moritz_ is there a particular reason for using a white background, instead of transparent?
20:44 TimToady the favicon uses transparent, feel free to change
20:44 * frettled must have missed a URL :)
20:44 TimToady I couldn't find a way to tell Open Drawing to do that
20:44 frettled TimToady: glad to see you made it safely out of the tourist traps
20:44 TimToady OpenOffice Draw, even
20:45 frettled TimToady: and regarding that thing about whether Oslo had city walls ever or not; it never did, they thought the rivers were sufficient (ancient Oslo was laid out differently)
20:45 TimToady just don't turn her eyes transparent along with everything else white :)
20:47 TimToady frettled: we had a good time pretending to be tourists... :)
20:48 frettled too bad you weren't staying for two more days; we almost had summer today, and it's going to be better tomorrow.
20:48 frettled the birches are turning greenish.
20:49 TimToady we noticed a lot more trees budding even in the time we were there
20:51 frettled where did you go?
20:51 * frettled is always interested in what you touristy guys do when touristing.
20:53 TimToady 1st day, rathus and castle and palace, 2nd day, historical buildings, viking ships, kon tiki, and vigeland sculptures
20:53 rocket_guatemala left #perl6
20:55 pugs_svn r26417 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] disabled implicit invocant in signatures, fixed t/lexical_scope.mold and added a failing test to that file
20:55 frettled That's quite a bit in a couple of days.  I hope some of it was worthwhile.
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20:57 pugs_svn r26418 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] fixed bug in hash bvalue
20:57 frettled Hms, Firefox suddenly doesn't want to render camelia.svg, perhaps because the HTTP header says ISO-8859-1 and the XML encoding is UTF-8?  Or is it just my FF (3.0.9/MacOS X) that's bugging?
20:58 braceta joined #perl6
20:58 wayland76 frettled: URL?
20:58 frettled wayland76: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/misc/camelia.svg
20:59 frettled This works, though: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/SVG.svg (UTF-8 + UTF-8)
21:00 frettled I get the same problem in Safari 3 and Opera 9.64, and the Wikimedia version works well.
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21:02 ascent_ frettled: Content-Type.
21:03 frettled ascent_: Yes, as I said, the HTTP header says it's ISO 8859-1, while the document says it's UTF-8.
21:03 frettled That usually causes problems with HTML, apparently it does so with SVG as well.
21:05 ascent_ frettled: it's not charset problem... It doesn't display as direct request, because Content-Type is text/plain, not image/svg+xml.
21:06 arnsholt ascent_: I was just typing that up as well =)
21:06 frettled ascent_: ah, that too, then.
21:06 ascent_ arnsholt: :)
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21:06 frettled ascent_: I see all sorts of weirdness come out of the latin-1 and UTF-8 problem, so my brain didn't parse "content-type" correctly. :)
21:07 arnsholt In fact, I don't think the charset specification matters for this document, 'cause I don't think it's got any non-ASCII characters
21:07 * frettled mumbles some obsceneties regarding the UTF-8 three-byte header string that e.g. Adobe Dreamweaver MX thinks it's a good idea to add to the start of all documents, including those in PHP with session handling.
21:07 arnsholt Ah, the BOM. Funfunfun ^^
21:08 wayland76 Fails in Seamonkey too
21:08 arnsholt Or is the BOM for UTF-16? It's been a while since I read up on this
21:08 frettled arnsholt: I'm pretty sure it's for UTF-8, as it's not strictly necessary to use it, but is used anyway.
21:09 wayland76 Internet Explorer ignores content-type.  That's one reason attacks on it are more likely to succeed
21:11 frettled yet Safari is the easiest to crack
21:11 arnsholt frettled: Wikipedia says that the BOM is intended for UTF-16 and -32 (where byte order actually matters), but occasionally occurs in UTF-8 as well, where it is indeed a three byte sequence
21:11 pugs_svn r26419 | pmurias++ | [re-mildew] uncomment most of CORE (except loading Multi,RoleHOW and EXTERNAL) as it loads in correctly
21:12 frettled arnsholt: I (unfortunately) know this because I'm in the sad position as a sysadm at someone allowing webhotel customers to use PHP.  :)
21:12 arnsholt Please accept my condoleances =)
21:13 frettled It seems like the way to set/remove transparancy for the background of camelia is to go to "page setup" in OpenOffice Draw, then the Background tab.  (caveat lector: I'm checking with NeoOffice 3.0.1)
21:13 frettled arnsholt: thanks.
21:18 wknight8111 joined #perl6
21:19 frettled Anyhoo, Someone� should just add the necessary AddType magic in e.g. a .htaccess file to ensure that .svg is served as the correct MIME type, then.
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21:22 pugs_svn r26420 | szabgab++ | fix some legacy smartlink syntax
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21:44 pugs_svn r26421 | szabgab++ | Smart::Links add some documentation
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22:58 jeremiah_ .c
22:58 phenny AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'encode' (file "/Users/sbp/web/inamidst.com/www/phenny/tools.py", line 20, in new)
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