Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-05-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:20 TimToady perl6: [1] ... { [ map &[+], 0, (@$_ Xxx 2), 0 ] }
00:20 p6eval rakudo 9d2934: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "... { [ ma"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
00:20 p6eval ..elf 26879: OUTPUT«Parse error in: /tmp/LIAjpUN4uk␤panic at line 1 column 0 (pos 0): Can't understand next input--giving up␤WHERE: [1] ... { [ map &[+], 0, (@$_ ␤WHERE:/\<-- HERE␤  STD_red/prelude.rb:99:in `panic'␤  STD_red/std.rb:76:in `scan_unitstopper'␤  STD_red/std.rb:224:in `comp_unit'␤
00:20 p6eval ..STD_red…
00:20 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "{"␤    expecting operator␤    at /tmp/vxT4WWX3Fc line 1, column 9␤»
00:21 TimToady (pascal's triangle)
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01:03 azawawi hi
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01:24 azawawi TimToady: how do i access CURPKG and CURPAD after using STD->parse?
01:45 TimToady there is no valid CURPKG or CURPAD outside of the parse.  that's what makes it "CUR".  you need to store them somewhere in a reduction action
01:46 TimToady that's more or less what the YOU_ARE_HERE is for in remembering the CURPAD for a setting
01:56 azawawi hmmm.. so how do i access the symbol table that STD builds?
01:59 sri_kraih joined #perl6
02:00 TimToady CURPAD has ::OUTER links all the way up to CORE, and CORE contains ::GLOBAL
02:02 TimToady CURPKG has ::PARENT links up to GLOBAL, as well
02:04 TimToady internally we also maintain $::CORE and $::GLOBAL
02:04 TimToady to get at things from the top
02:04 TimToady but in theory everything can be reconstructed from $CURPAD
02:08 azawawi i see, thx
02:09 azawawi i think i should turn S:H:P6 to use viv instead...
02:09 TimToady well, the primary purpose of viv is still to replace gimme5, so it will continue to mutate, probably
02:10 TimToady dinner &
02:10 azawawi enjoy :)
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03:30 TimToady @tell JDlugosz the lines() function already defaults to $*ARGFILES; that's its only advantage over the method form
03:30 lambdabot Consider it noted.
03:31 TimToady rakudo: say lines
03:31 p6eval rakudo 9d2934: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'lines'␤in Main (/tmp/UymjXLe2qR:1)␤»
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04:56 japhb mberends: ping
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05:50 mberends japhb: pong # (backlogging)
05:50 moritz_ wow, longest spectest run ever: 27151 wallclock secs
05:51 moritz_ (there was a suspend-to-disk in between ;-)
05:51 japhb heh
05:52 japhb mberends: I'm working my way through HTTP::Daemon, and I was wondering about a couple things in the source that seemed odd.
05:53 harig joined #perl6
05:53 japhb For example, why does HTTP::Daemon::ClientConn have several methods that declare their invocant?
05:53 * mberends looks
05:53 japhb as in method foo ($self:) {... $self.do_something ...}
05:55 japhb Also, why is send_status_line a multi method?
05:56 japhb (And it's got a bug, BTW: Instead of \n, it should send crlf of course, as you mention in a comment just below.  ;-)  )
05:57 mberends japhb: some of this code is sloppy cruft left over from the NPW Hackathon. It needs cage cleaning :/
05:58 japhb Care for help with said cage cleaning?
05:58 mberends nice idea. Do you already have an account on Gitorious?
05:59 japhb I signed up earlier today, but the email still has not arrived.  :-(
06:00 japhb OOC, why gitorious instead of github?
06:01 mberends ok, when your account is confirmed, you can become contributor to http://gitorious.org/http-daemon where I plan to maintain a core version for inclusion into other projects.
06:01 japhb thanks!
06:02 * japhb wonders why an automated email should take more than a few seconds ....
06:02 mberends Gitorious because I don't believe in putting all eggs into one basket.
06:03 japhb Fair enough.  Though the nice thing about a DVCS is that the single basket problem gets a lot less troublesome.
06:04 mberends the proto installer also benefits from test cases on different servers.
06:06 japhb Ah, speaking of which, I was going to offer a proto patch that would try cloning personal forks even before writable masters, but I realized I don't understand how the gitorious personal fork naming convention works.
06:06 mberends the aim of this Daemon BTW is to be as faithful as possible to the Perl 5 original. Others such as masak, Tene and ruoso have re-gutted it with custom dispatchers.
06:07 mberends japhb: that would be a nice proto enhancement, let's look at that too.
06:08 japhb mberends: OK, I'll keep the Perl 5 source around to compare against while I go.
06:11 mberends japhb: the compatibility is at the API level, keeping to the perldoc.
06:12 mberends I'm planning to do the same with more of LWP. Gisle Aas wrote me that he doesn't mind.
06:12 japhb mberends: Nod.  I meant that I planned to favor the actual behavior where it disagreed with the docs.
06:13 japhb Why would he mind?  Ownership of namespace?
06:13 mberends my broad goal is to help Perl 5 users move to Perl 6 easily.
06:14 japhb A worthy goal.  :-)
06:14 mberends I did not want to tread on toes if others are already planning their Perl 6 moves.
06:15 japhb Good manners, that.
06:15 masak joined #perl6
06:15 mberends For example, the DBI side for Perl 6 has active developers.
06:16 masak greetings, perl6ers.
06:16 mberends masak: good day, barefoot butterfly-catcher!
06:16 japhb mberends: Oh?  Where?  I was wondering if I needed to throw tuits at that
06:16 japhb masak: greetings!
06:16 masak :)
06:17 mberends sorry, afk & #@home
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06:19 azawawi good morning p6 :)
06:20 masak azawawi: mornin'
06:20 masak std: class Dog {}; my @mammals; grep Dog, @mammals;
06:20 p6eval std 26879: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
06:21 masak rakudo: class Mammal {}; class Cat is Mammal {}; class Dog is Mammal {}; my @mammals = map { .new }, Cat, Dog, Cat, Cat, Dog; say (grep Dog, @mammals).perl
06:21 p6eval rakudo 9d2934: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'grep'␤in Main (/tmp/7ezBsN9qE9:1)␤»
06:22 masak that's what I thought.
06:22 masak now, let's see what the spec says about this.
06:22 moritz_ it probably says Matcher
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06:23 moritz_ well, maybe it's an easy fix...
06:23 masak it says Matcher.
06:23 masak furthermore, Matcher is 'defined' in S29, but then used all over S32.
06:23 * moritz_ runs spectest
06:23 masak some enterprising mind might want to re-mention it in S32.
06:24 masak rakudo: class Mammal {}; class Dog is Mammal {}; say Dog.can('ACCEPTS')
06:24 p6eval rakudo 9d2934: OUTPUT«1␤»
06:24 moritz_ I'm trying to simply remove the type constraint, and instead of $test($_) I do $_ ~~ $test
06:25 moritz_ now running spectest if it's that simple.
06:25 masak rakudo: subtype Matcher of Object where { .can('ACCEPTS' }; class Mammal {}; class Dog is Mammal; say Dog ~~ Matcher
06:25 p6eval rakudo 9d2934: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "of Object "␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
06:25 masak rakudo: subtype Matcher of Object where { .can('ACCEPTS' }; class Mammal {}; class Dog is Mammal {}; say Dog ~~ Matcher
06:25 p6eval rakudo 9d2934: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "of Object "␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
06:25 moritz_ masak: sub*set*
06:25 masak rakudo: subset Matcher of Object where { .can('ACCEPTS' }; class Mammal {}; class Dog is Mammal {}; say Dog ~~ Matcher
06:25 p6eval rakudo 9d2934: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "('ACCEPTS'"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
06:25 masak moritz_: I often do that mistake lately.
06:25 japhb Missing right paren
06:26 masak rakudo: subset Matcher of Object where { .can('ACCEPTS') }; class Mammal {}; class Dog is Mammal {}; say Dog ~~ Matcher
06:26 p6eval rakudo 9d2934: OUTPUT«Re-declaration of type Matcher at line 1, near "; class Ma"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:2668)␤»
06:26 masak :/
06:26 * masak hasn't woekn up correctly yet, evidently
06:26 masak rakudo: subset Matcher of Object where { .can('ACCEPTS') }; class Mammal {}; class Dog is Mammal {}; say Dog ~~ Matcher
06:26 p6eval rakudo 9d2934: OUTPUT«Re-declaration of type Matcher at line 1, near "; class Ma"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:2668)␤»
06:26 moritz_ rakudo: say Matcher
06:27 pugs_svn r26880 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] bundled latest std in 0.56
06:27 p6eval rakudo 9d2934: OUTPUT«()␤»
06:27 moritz_ masak: it exists already
06:27 masak oh.
06:27 moritz_ that's why you et a Re-declaration error
06:27 moritz_ *get
06:27 masak rakudo: say Dog ~~ Matcher
06:27 p6eval rakudo 9d2934: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub Dog␤»
06:27 masak erm.
06:27 masak rakudo: class Mammal {}; class Dog is Mammal {}; say Dog ~~ Matcher
06:28 p6eval rakudo 9d2934: OUTPUT«1␤»
06:28 masak it can ACCEPTS.
06:30 moritz_ $ perl6 -e '([], 3, 4, []).grep(Int).perl.say'
06:30 moritz_ [3, 4]
06:30 moritz_ that works locally here
06:31 masak moritz_++
06:31 japhb Where is the Tags.pm that creates HTML tags?  proto doesn't seem to know about it ...
06:31 masak japhb: it's in web right now.
06:31 masak japhb: not because it uses anything else in that project, but because it was created in the context of that project. :)
06:32 masak our policy on whether to put 'third-party' things in the web repository or outside of it is a bit hazy still...
06:33 japhb nod.
06:33 japhb But where is it?  I can't seem to find it in the web repo that proto checks out ... is proto out of date WRT to the correct repo location/owner?
06:34 moritz_ lib/Tags.pm
06:34 moritz_ http://github.com/masak/web/blob/d5d439e9f5772cd53c23df87cd7bbdd6ff89739e/lib/Tags.pm
06:35 masak japhb: no, proto should be up-to-date on that account.
06:35 japhb hmmmm: ~/git/web$ ls lib
06:35 japhb Test.pm  Web  Web.pm
06:35 masak japhb: update?
06:35 japhb Just did the initial checkout earlier today.  But sure, why not?  ;-)
06:35 masak japhb: either 'git pull origin master' in the web dir, or './proto update web' in the proto dir.
06:36 masak japhb: I'm pretty sure we have more than that in lib/ :)
06:36 japhb Hum.
06:38 japhb It appears to have somehow gotten locked into a fork I did a LONG time ago:
06:38 japhb $ git pull origin master
06:38 japhb From git@github.com:japhb/web
06:39 * japhb kicks it in the head
06:39 japhb Oh yeah, that looks MUCH better
06:39 japhb PEBCAK
06:39 masak japhb: might it be that there was already a web dir where proto tried to install the official one?
06:40 masak japhb: if proto didn't signal an error at such a situation, that's an error. :)
06:40 japhb masak: Yes, it's possible.  My ~/git is getting rather bloated.
06:41 masak when I go './proto install web', it says 'Won't install web: already installed.'
06:42 japhb masak: I had started the whole party with './proto install all' which seems to need a bit of hand-holding.  It is quite possible I held them incorrectly.
06:42 masak oh, that's not something I've tested properly.
06:42 masak but ISTR that it skips things already installed.
06:42 masak so you'd have wound up with your web dir untouched.
06:44 azawawi moritz_: any idea if this is a rakudo bug, http://sial.org/pbot/36698 ?
06:44 azawawi moritz_: it only print 1 on my win32 machine
06:45 masak azawawi: here, too.
06:45 masak azawawi: works if I do s/pod1/pod/, though.
06:46 azawawi masak: yeah but it doesnt print out any error or anything...
06:46 azawawi masak: silently ignores the rest...
06:46 masak azawawi: you're right, that is odd.
06:46 masak azawawi: submit a rakudobug.
06:48 japhb Ack.  Pbbbt.  It looks like web and http-daemon have near-identical Daemon.pm files.  Which one is canonical?
06:49 masak http-daemon, at least after mberends++ finishes his refactor.
06:49 masak the one in web is going away.
06:50 masak (because Web.pm is supposedly engine-agnostic)
06:50 japhb Refactor of what?  Web.pm's use of an engine, or the copy of Daemon.pm in http-daemon?
06:50 japhb (I don't want to start hacking on http-daemon if the code is about to get mutilated out from under me.)
06:51 azawawi masak: how do i submit a rakudo bug, rakudobug at perl.org?
06:52 masak japhb: in any case, you should confer with mberends, if you haven't done so already.
06:52 masak azawawi: aye.
06:52 japhb masak: I was a bit ago (before you came in), but he had to run apparently
06:52 azawawi masak: and where can i view current rakudo bugs?
06:52 masak azawawi: http://rt.perl.org/rt3/
06:53 * azawawi hates RT :)
06:53 masak japhb: all I know is that the HTTP::Daemon in web works. I don't know whether the one in http-daemon is dated or improved.
06:53 masak japhb: maybe the changelog will tell you that.
06:54 japhb I diffed.  The only difference is four lines of POD.
06:54 masak japhb: :)
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06:55 masak japhb: I'd recomment hacking on http-daemon, since that's the one not going away.
06:55 japhb However, I guess no time like the present to begin.  :-)
06:55 japhb nodnod
07:05 masak mberends: let's say A depends on B. if I go './proto install A B', with none of them installed, the following will happen: proto will fetch A, fetch B, and build them. then it will unnecessarily update B, because it's still in the list of things to be installed-or-updated. this is (I guess) acceptable, but a bit... unnecessary.
07:08 * moritz_ forgot to fix the sub form of grep, so spectesting again...
07:09 masak mberends: hm, seems like that's solvable. fetch-and-build-projects-and-their-deps simply doesn't take this case into account, but it has all the information needed to do so. I might fix during the day.
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07:14 moritz_ http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=764687 # Contexts in Perl 6
07:14 moritz_ in case anybody missed it ;-)
07:17 masak looks like a good discussion.
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07:32 * azawawi submitted rakudobug #65782
07:34 moritz_ I don't know if that's actually a bug.
07:36 pugs_svn r26881 | moritz++ | [t/spec] grep with non-Code matcher
07:37 masak moritz_: me neither, but I think it's something that at least needs clarification.
07:38 masak moritz_++ # r26881
07:38 dalek rakudo: d0fbfbe | moritz++ | src/setting/Any-list.pm:
07:38 dalek rakudo: accept more general matchers in grep
07:38 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d0fbfbe3bcb97074b44e3df81fad5492b7dd3b53
07:41 masak yay!
07:41 * moritz_ doesn't quite understand masak's excitement about such a simple patch ;-)
07:42 masak moritz_: it's quite significant, I think.
07:43 moritz_ well, having built-ins written in Perl 6 makes that really trivial ;-)
07:43 masak hm, the usage example of map in S32/Containers.pod:
07:43 masak .. @addresses = map { %addresses_by_name{$_} }, @names;
07:44 masak (the two dots were to un-confuse lambdabot)
07:44 moritz_ can of course be done with a slice
07:44 masak yes, that was my point.
07:44 moritz_ @test
07:44 masak making it a slightly un-good example for didactic reasons.
07:44 moritz_ a space is enough already ;-)
07:44 masak moritz_: ah, yes, will do that next time.
07:45 moritz_ well, feel free to think of a better example ;-)
07:45 masak I will.
07:45 masak actually, I'm thinking of just cutting it for now.
07:46 masak the spec should be succinct, IMHO. and the example doesn't say anything the signature didn't already convey.
07:46 moritz_ +1
07:46 * masak makes it so
07:50 pugs_svn r26882 | masak++ | [S32/Containers.pod] removed examples from 'map'
07:50 pugs_svn r26882 | masak++ |
07:50 pugs_svn r26882 | masak++ | The examples didn't particularly add anything that the synopsis didn't
07:50 pugs_svn r26882 | masak++ | already make clear. Also, the first example could have been written better
07:50 pugs_svn r26882 | masak++ | with a hash slice, making it didactically non-ideal.
07:50 pugs_svn r26883 | masak++ | fixed a typo and a missing comma
07:51 masak I used to love SVN because it was not CVS. now, only git-svn can make SVN bearable for me. funny how that works.
07:51 moritz_ @karma masak
07:51 lambdabot masak has a karma of 184
07:52 Matt-W It's because you realised that SVN is just CVS done less badly
07:52 moritz_ yes, I'm sold for DCVS' too
07:52 Matt-W The fundamental flaws are still there
07:52 masak Matt-W: they are indeed.
07:52 moritz_ there's a nice rant from linus torvalds on youtube (or google tech talk)
07:52 masak Matt-W: but I can feel smug for getting some advantages out of git while working against SVN.
07:53 moritz_ he's got a point, but he really behaved like an asshole
07:53 masak moritz_: I was torn over that video too.
07:53 masak moritz_: first time I watched it, I thought 'asshole'.
07:53 moritz_ well, I still think that
07:53 masak moritz_: second time, I realized that he was basically painting his enemy really clearly.
07:54 masak moritz_: still an asshole, I guess, but I see now that it was very deliberate.
07:54 moritz_ just because somebody hasn't been exposed to a different technology doesn't mean he's stupid or brain-dead or whatever
07:54 masak moritz_: true.
07:55 masak moritz_: being nuanced is hard. he's being very clear, and trading humility and politeness for clarity.
07:55 masak I wouldn't. but then again, I'm not him.
07:56 masak he's known for doing the same on mailing lists etc.
07:56 moritz_ ah well. I still use his software ;-)
07:57 moritz_ though I wouldn't mind having a few different kernels to plug in into my debian, just to have alternatives
07:57 moritz_ there's a debian-freebsd port, and an unoffical opensolaris port (called nexenta)
07:57 moritz_ I hope those two work out
07:57 * masak is a Hurd lover at heart
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07:58 moritz_ do you actually run it?
07:59 moritz_ rakudo: [1, 2, 3.4, [], {}].grep(Num).perl.say
07:59 p6eval rakudo d0fbfb: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3.4]␤»
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08:04 japhb mberends: gitorious account finally acquired.  Turns out their account verification email came from a misconfigured server, and the anti-spam rules at my hosting provider rejected it.
08:05 masak moritz_: no, but I've always wanted to. I hear there's a debian-hurd in the works too.
08:05 japhb masak: has been for AGES.
08:06 masak japhb: sounds like something the github team might want to hear about.
08:06 japhb (in the works I mean)
08:06 masak japhb: if you say so. :) I only heard about it recently.
08:06 japhb masak: Already spoke to gitorious support.
08:06 masak japhb++
08:07 masak their page says it's 'not officially released yet'. http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/
08:09 japhb masak: yep.  Been that way since IIRC even before Hurd could boot.
08:09 japhb Debian was one of the first distros to try it.
08:09 masak Debian++
08:09 masak I think it's my favourite distro by far.
08:09 masak the more I learn about it, the more I like it.
08:13 japhb Ditto that.
08:16 japhb masak: './proto update http-daemon' does not seem to make the .pir files, even though it claims to have built it.
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08:17 japhb do a 'make clean' in http-daemon, you can see what I mean.
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08:17 masak japhb: yes, there's a flaw in proto that causes that. it doesn't build any project correctly right now.
08:17 japhb masak: any idea what it is?  Or should I just go wildly spelunking?  :-)
08:18 masak japhb: on my box, it has to do with 'env'.
08:18 * japhb raises an eyebrow
08:19 masak or rather, the paths sent to env causes env to die.
08:19 masak so all my make.log files contain the same two lines: 'env: projects: No such file or directory', repeated twice.
08:23 japhb masak: bug found, cleaning up my diff
08:23 masak wow. japhb++
08:23 masak I bet it was somewhere close to line 332, 'XXX: Need to have error handling here'
08:24 japhb A couple lines above it.  :-)
08:24 masak :)
08:25 japhb Rakudo is now the second thing that makes me want a faster CPU in my laptop.  The first being flash.
08:27 pasteling "japhb" at 76.191.190.8 pasted "Fix for proto project building problems, plus trivial inline refactoring to allow (commented out) verbosity" (31 lines, 1.3K) at http://sial.org/pbot/36699
08:30 masak japhb: thanks. and, um, "d'oh!".
08:30 japhb *chuckle*
08:30 masak japhb: I'll accept the part of the patch that fixes the problem. I try to avoid both commented-out code and verbosity in proto.
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08:32 japhb masak: No problem.  But you might consider dropping the commented warn, but keeping the $cmd refactoring ... since I find I often come back to wanting to debug commands I'm about to execute.
08:32 masak japhb: understood.
08:32 masak will do.
08:38 masak japhb: there, pushed. thanks.
08:38 masak (I added you to the AUTHORS file as well.)
08:44 japhb masak: thanks!
08:45 masak no, thank _you_.
08:45 japhb ... Mr. Acavano!
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08:46 masak Wise Guys, 1986.
08:46 masak I had to Google for the quote. :)
08:47 japhb heh
08:47 ejs1 joined #perl6
08:47 masak seems like a nice movie.
08:49 cognominal joined #perl6
08:52 japhb I recall it being fun ... but then again that was almost a quarter century ago.  :-)
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08:59 * moritz_ only knows "Wise Guys" as a German a-capella band
09:00 Matt-W moritz_: are they any good?
09:00 moritz_ Matt-W: very good IMHO
09:00 moritz_ Matt-W: very funny, if you understand the lyrics
09:00 Matt-W moritz_: do they have a website?
09:01 moritz_ http://www.wiseguys.de/
09:03 dalek rakudo: 222993f | moritz++ | docs/ChangeLog:
09:03 dalek rakudo: [docs] update ChangeLog
09:03 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/222993f147087b8d28f24f3915a30a9f8568c28e
09:04 Matt-W moritz_: Wow. They are fantastic.
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09:04 Matt-W I'm only understanding about a quarter of the lyrics of course
09:04 moritz_ understandable
09:05 moritz_ I've been on two of their concerts
09:05 moritz_ the first one was fine (they weren't well known at that time), but the second one was really great
09:06 Matt-W I think one requires a very high level of language to understand songs in a second language
09:06 moritz_ aye. It really helps to read the lyrics once, IMHO
09:06 Matt-W Probably
09:06 Matt-W I can definitely appreciate their technical skill though
09:07 Matt-W I have to tell my singing teacher about this
09:07 Matt-W She'd love it
09:07 Matt-W being a former Swingle Singer
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09:09 Matt-W moritz_: even better, I can get their stuff from Amazon UK :) Thanks for mentioning them
09:09 jnthn H H
09:10 Matt-W HAI jnthn!
09:10 Matt-W u in ar rakudo makin us feeturs?
09:11 moritz_ Matt-W: you're welcome... have fun listening! ;-)
09:12 masak jnthn: hi!
09:12 Matt-W moritz_: hmm CD for £16 or MP3 256kbps for £8.79... I have to think about that for, oh, two or three seconds
09:12 moritz_ Matt-W: IMHO the two newest albums ("Frei" and "Radio") are the best
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09:13 azawawi moritz_: ping
09:13 moritz_ azawawi: pong
09:14 azawawi mortiz_: regarding, http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-5-to-6/14-main-sub.html ; i cant get STD to compile it... although rakudo does
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09:14 azawawi moritz_: im learning perl6 from your blogs :)
09:15 masak std: sub MAIN($path, :$force, :$recursive, :$home = glob("~/")) { }
09:15 p6eval std 26883: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Can't put optional positional parameter after variadic parameters at /tmp/1iLajbu25I line 1:␤------> [32m$force, :$recursive, :$home = glob("~/")[31m) { }[0m␤    expecting any of:␤     standard stopper␤ terminator␤       whitespace␤Undeclared routine:␤
09:15 p6eval ..   glob used a…
09:15 moritz_ IMHO that's a STD parsing bug.
09:16 moritz_ TimToady: see above. It says "optional positional parameter', but :$home for sure is named
09:16 masak yes.
09:17 azawawi thx :)
09:18 jnthn Matt-W: Well, not so much features, but I got a good fix in last night (Null PMC Access and others now get backtrace with HLL source line/file.)
09:19 Matt-W jnthn: My hair thanks you for something which is bound to reduce the number of times I try to pull it out in frustration
09:19 mberends japhb: welcome, you are a committer on http://gitorious.org/http-daemon/mainline
09:21 mberends .oO( so much to backlog, so little time )
09:27 masak jnthn: Null PMC access backtraces, cool!
09:28 azawawi jnthn++
09:28 jnthn rakudo: sub foo { ::T = 42; }; sub bar { foo() }; bar();
09:28 p6eval rakudo 222993: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in getprop()␤in sub foo (/tmp/4ar4uyZcbV:1)␤called from sub bar (/tmp/4ar4uyZcbV:1)␤called from Main (/tmp/4ar4uyZcbV:1)␤»
09:28 jnthn Well, line number output is a litle boring on a one-liner ;-)
09:29 mberends yes, jnthn++ diagnostics much appreciated
09:29 jnthn pmichaud++ and Tene++ for doing parts of what it's taken to get us here too. :-)
09:30 moritz_ I wonder, should p6eval filter out back traces? (or at least partially?)
09:31 moritz_ or are they usually suffieciently short so that we don't care?
09:31 masak moritz_: I'm in ur STD, checking your bug. the error message is issued on line 3758, and it seems to my untrained eye as if the check done is 'is this an optional parameter?', when it should really be 'is this an optional positional parameter?'
09:31 azawawi mortiz_: regarding http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-5-to-6/16-enums.html, the example does not working also on rakudo/std
09:31 azawawi std: enum bit Bool <False True>;
09:31 p6eval std 26883: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Syntax error (two terms in a row?) at /tmp/yiYHgk7Yra line 1:␤------> [32menum bit [31mBool <False True>;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤      infix or meta-infix␤      infix stopper␤    standard stopper␤ statement modifier loop␤  terminator␤     trait␤FAILED
09:31 p6eval ..00:02 37m␤»
09:32 mberends moritz_: (filter the backtrace)++
09:32 azawawi rakudo: enum bit Bool <False True>;
09:32 p6eval rakudo 222993: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "Bool <Fals"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
09:32 masak moritz_: there's something to be said for not modifying the output that p6eval shows.
09:32 moritz_ rakudo: enum Bool <False True>
09:32 p6eval rakudo 222993: OUTPUT«Re-declaration of type Bool at line 1, near ""␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:689)␤»
09:33 moritz_ azawawi: that's because Rakudo doesn't know about bit, and because `Bool' is already declared in the prelude
09:33 moritz_ masak: I'll look into it later, lunch now
09:34 azawawi moritz_: anyway, there is also undeclared $arbitrary_value
09:34 mberends masak: on your barefoot analogies, what maps to 'blister'? a rakudobug?
09:34 moritz_ azawawi: not all examples are intended as self-contained runnable code
09:34 azawawi moritz_: ah my mistake  :)
09:35 masak moritz_: funny enough, the line that issues the error was last changed in r22746: '[STD] fix parameter parsing problem noted by moritz++'
09:35 masak mberends: among other things.
09:35 azawawi moritz_: given it was a tutorial, i thought they were :)
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09:35 masak mberends: it actually carries over quite well, because blisters are the way to thick soles.
09:36 masak and we're all about being soleful here in the Perl 6 community.
09:37 mberends masak: touch�
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09:38 azawawi masak: what's the status on u4x docs?
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09:40 masak azawawi: well, two things: I'm going through P2T1A, filling in the things necessary for getting a grasp on what's needed of the hierarchy. I've done one sprint out of two on that. also, literal is about to start his GSoC project, implementing grok, the u4x documentation client.
09:41 azawawi masak: i heard about that from szabgab; any links?
09:42 azawawi moritz_: and where can i find the keyword index that szabgab published?
09:42 masak azawawi: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/docs/u4x/
09:42 azawawi masak: thx
09:42 masak enjoy.
09:47 azawawi rakudo: if 'ab cd ef'  ~~ mm/ (..) ** 2 / { say $1; }
09:47 p6eval rakudo 222993: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "/ (..) ** "␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
09:47 azawawi std: if 'ab cd ef'  ~~ mm/ (..) ** 2 / { say $1; }
09:47 p6eval std 26883: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 37m␤»
09:48 masak azawawi: 'm//' and 'mm//' NIY in Rakudo as far as I know.
09:49 mberends general question: what work has been done on P5 -> P6 source code translation? Pugs seems to have only a regex converter. Apparently TimToady++ will make the definitive one, but perhaps only after STD and Christmas. Asking as research for my YAPC::EU talk, and toying with the idea of making something small on that topic.
09:49 japhb mberends: thank you for the commitbit; I've pushed my first block of changes
09:49 azawawi masak: thx
09:50 mberends japhb++ :) thanks podnuh
09:50 japhb ya betcha sweet britches.
09:50 masak mberends: MAD.
09:51 masak mberends: uh, props.
09:51 mberends masak: oops
09:51 masak mberends: it's a setting when building Perl 5.
09:52 japhb OK, it's painfully late here.  Must attempt sleep before alarm goes off in <4 hours.  Bleah.
10:00 azawawi std: subset Squares of Int where { .sqrt.int**2 == $_ };multi sub square_root(Squares $x --> Int) { return int $x.sqrt; }
10:00 p6eval std 26883:  ( no output )
10:00 azawawi rakudo: subset Squares of Int where { .sqrt.int**2 == $_ };multi sub square_root(Squares $x --> Int) { return int $x.sqrt; }
10:00 p6eval rakudo 222993:  ( no output )
10:01 azawawi std: my $foo;
10:01 p6eval std 26883: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
10:02 azawawi std: subset Squares of Int where { .sqrt.int**2 == $_ };
10:02 p6eval std 26883: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
10:02 azawawi std: subset Squares of Int where { .sqrt.int**2 == $_ }; multi sub square_root(Squares $x --> Int) { return int $x.sqrt; }
10:02 p6eval std 26883: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Syntax error (two terms in a row?) at /tmp/wbL0szDsxg line 1:␤------> [32me_root(Squares $x --> Int) { return int [31m$x.sqrt; }[0m␤    expecting any of:␤       infix or meta-infix␤      infix stopper␤    standard stopper␤ statement modifier loop␤
10:02 p6eval ..terminator␤FAILED 00…
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10:12 azawawi moritz_: what about subset Squares of Int where { .sqrt.int**2 == $_ }; multi sub square_root(Squares $x --> Int) { return int $x.sqrt; } ?
10:12 azawawi moritz
10:12 azawawi mortiz_: i think this is an STD parsing error...
10:13 * azawawi lunch &
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10:23 cognominal does someone successfully build rakudo on a Mac unibody?
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10:40 mberends cognominal: what's the matter? surely it's just a Mac? (no, I don't use one myself)
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10:57 cognominal mberends,  I sent a bug report with the stack tracd
10:59 mberends cognominal: had your system previously successfully built rakudo?
11:00 cognominal yes
11:03 mberends rt#65784? that Stage 1 compiler had aborted on me too under different circumstances
11:04 mberends this is different, it has not managed to make perl6_s1.pbc yet :(
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11:39 masak I'm still kinda curious about this "Stage 1" business. is there a Stage 2?
11:40 moritz_ @tell azawawi I never advertised my blog as a tutorial, and it's not really intended as one (see <http://use.perl.org/firehose.pl?op=view&amp;id=7894> for the announcement); that said improvements are always welcome
11:40 lambdabot Consider it noted.
11:40 moritz_ masak: Stage 2 = pir + setting
11:40 moritz_ masak: Stage 1 = pir only
11:40 masak ooh.
11:40 moritz_ wrt builtins, that is
11:40 masak yes.
11:41 masak moritz_: if your blog isn't a tutorial, I don't know what is. :)
11:41 moritz_ masak: it's an attempt to show off cool Perl 6 features, teaching those along the way
11:41 masak ...as opposed to...? :)
11:42 moritz_ masak: it's not an attempt to teach programming in Perl 6
11:42 masak fair enough.
11:42 moritz_ it's mostly a matter of choosing the topics
11:43 moritz_ however I guess it could be turned into a tutorial
11:44 jnthn masak: We have a s1 compiler because we need a Perl 6 compiler to be able to compile Perl 6, and the setting is written in Perl 6. :-)
11:46 masak moritz_: I find the idea of "Learning Y assuming X" to be quite nice. it means one can start from something other than the very basics.
11:46 masak jnthn: I see.
11:47 jnthn masak: In theory, the only difference between them is that one lacks the built-ins that are defined in the setting.
11:47 moritz_ masak: when I started writing some Perl 6 tutorials in German, I actually wrote three; one for beginners, one for perl 5 programmers and one for programmers in general :-)
11:47 jnthn masak: In practice, I fear that we (accidentally) have another difference somewhere too. But I couldn't work out what yet. :-(
11:48 azawawi joined #perl6
11:49 masak jnthn: huzzah for striving to combine theory and practice :)
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12:23 mberends masak++ proto/logotype/proto.svg # looks like a bowling ball :)
12:24 masak mberends: during my barefoot walk the other day, I saw some graffiti that looked like that. I decided it would be a fine logotype for proto. :)
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12:25 moritz_ rakudo: 3.4.int.say
12:25 p6eval rakudo 222993: OUTPUT«3␤»
12:25 masak rakudo++
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12:34 masak rakudo: class A { method postcircumfix:<( )>() { 42 } }; my $a = A.new; say $a()
12:34 p6eval rakudo 222993: OUTPUT«invoke() not implemented in class 'A'␤in Main (/tmp/Hmi8wCLtQY:1)␤»
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12:59 Matt-W masak: awww
12:59 masak Matt-W: so close! :/
12:59 moritz_ ticket it!
12:59 moritz_ erm, I meant "masak it!"
13:00 Matt-W I guess it's not noticing the custom operator before it decides to do a sub call
13:00 * masak whips out a TODO rakudobug
13:01 mberends the [] one works
13:01 masak mberends: somehow, it's not the same. :)
13:03 Matt-W no it's not at all the same
13:03 * masak sulks
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13:19 jnthn masak: That inovke one is hard to fix. :-(
13:19 jnthn Blocks on Parrot calling convention refactor...
13:19 masak jnthn: in that case, creating a TODO was the right thing to do. :)
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13:23 Matt-W Did I read somewhere that Allison's looking at calling conventions?
13:26 jnthn Matt-W: Yes, she is.
13:26 jnthn Matt-W: She's started on the refactor already.
13:27 Matt-W Excellent
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14:19 azawawi std: sub sub($foo) {  say "From div!\n"; }; sub(1);
14:19 lambdabot azawawi: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
14:19 azawawi @messages
14:19 lambdabot moritz_ said 2h 39m 41s ago: I never advertised my blog as a tutorial, and it's not really intended as one (see <http://use.perl.org/firehose.pl?op=view&amp;id=7894> for the announcement); that said
14:19 lambdabot improvements are always welcome
14:19 p6eval std 26883: OUTPUT«ok 00:04 37m␤»
14:20 azawawi std: sub sub($foo) {  say "From div!\n"; }; sub(1);
14:20 azawawi rakudo: sub sub($foo) {  say "From div!\n"; }; sub(1);
14:20 p6eval std 26883: OUTPUT«ok 00:04 37m␤»
14:20 p6eval rakudo 222993: OUTPUT«Malformed routine definition at line 1, near "(1);"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
14:20 masak 'sub(1)'?
14:20 azawawi yeah is that valid in perl6?
14:22 azawawi rakudo: sub if($foo) {  say "From if!\n"; }; if(1);
14:22 p6eval rakudo 222993: OUTPUT«From if!␤␤»
14:23 masak azawawi: it should be.
14:23 * azawawi scratches his head :)
14:23 masak azawawi: care to submit a rakudobug?
14:25 azawawi yeah why not :)
14:26 masak that's the spirit!
14:26 azawawi proper syntax highlighting coming soon
14:26 azawawi that handles such cases...
14:30 * azawawi submits a rakudobug
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14:31 masak azawawi++
14:31 azawawi moritz_: your "Perl6 programming" tutorial blog really helped me a lot in my "perl6 programming" learning quest. thx. moritz_++ :)
14:32 azawawi masak: lol
14:33 azawawi masak: so what's new with november?
14:33 masak azawawi: well, we're working to put it on top of Web.pm.
14:34 masak most of the effort is going to Web.pm right now.
14:34 masak mberends: http://gist.github.com/114132
14:36 azawawi masak: nice
14:36 azawawi masak: so proto can be used to install perl6 programs on all platforms that rakudo works on, right?
14:37 masak azawawi: well... it's basically not tested at all on Windows.
14:37 * azawawi hmmm.. i can do that
14:37 masak azawawi: I would wager it contains a fair amount of Unixisms.
14:37 masak azawawi: yes, please. :)
14:37 masak azawawi: be prepared to encounter trouble, though.
14:38 masak azawawi: a good set of use cases might be the ones in the README file.
14:38 azawawi masak: bring it on :)
14:38 masak azawawi: good luck. :)
14:39 azawawi masak: and where does proto live these days?
14:39 masak https://github.com/masak/proto
14:40 masak if you have proto installed, you can also do './proto install pro'... oh, wait.
14:40 azawawi i dont have it :)
14:40 masak no. :) and that wouldn't work if you have it installed either. :)
14:40 * masak tries
14:41 masak indeed, proto complains that proto is already installed. :)
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14:50 azawawi masak: ok i got it
14:51 masak great.
14:51 azawawi masak: it installs perl6 rakudo each time when you want to install to a module?
14:51 masak azawawi: no, it installs it if you don't have PARROT_DIR and/or RAKUDO_DIR set.
14:52 masak azawawi: but only after giving you a chance to configure it first.
14:52 azawawi ah ok
14:53 azawawi ok i need git then
14:54 masak yes.
14:54 azawawi masak: http://sial.org/pbot/36706
14:55 azawawi masak: i will work on it from home then
14:55 * azawawi is going home &
14:55 azawawi masak: thx
14:55 masak azawawi: sounds nice.
14:55 masak azawawi: again, good luck!
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15:01 masak what's the difference between a Hash and a P6hash mentioned in S12?
15:02 masak oh, wait. the latter is a value to the :repr parameter. nevermind.
15:04 pugs_svn r26884 | lwall++ | [STD] fix masak++'s named-parameter-with-default-assumes-positional bug
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15:05 masak a two-character fix. :)
15:06 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
15:06 masak ahoj, pmichaud.
15:07 jnthn Привет, pmichaud
15:14 TimToady @tell azawawi there is no builtin "int" function, and you can't use the type name "int" as a listop, though int() would work
15:14 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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15:30 Tene Morning, all.
15:30 masak Tene: o/
15:30 Tene hi masak
15:32 masak Tene: I hope to have time to write some initial Genshi tests in the next 24 hours.
15:32 masak um, s/Genshi/Hitomi/
15:36 tulcod "real_exception (severity:2 error:40): Malformed string" when trying a simple print statement in a pasm with simple unicode characters
15:37 tulcod as well as "likely reason: argument count mismatch in main (more than 1 param)"
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15:39 jnthn tulcod: maybe that you need unicode:"the string" or something.
15:39 jnthn tulcod: PIR is more normal to write than pasm these days.
15:39 tulcod jnthn: woot, it works using "unicode:"
15:40 tulcod jnthn: well, i'm kinda slowly working my way through the parrot documentation
15:40 tulcod started with the first chapter, which starts with pasm
15:40 jnthn tulcod: :-)
15:40 tulcod and nqp, which i didn't get :(
15:40 jnthn tulcod: Ah, OK, gotcha. :-)
15:40 jnthn nqp is like, a subset of Perl 6.
15:40 tulcod yeah, i know
15:40 tulcod but it didn't get installed by paludis
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15:43 tulcod what version of parrot do i need for nqp?
15:44 mberends masak: good proto work, sir. it would be really nice to have windows users as well.
15:45 masak mberends: it would indeed.
15:45 jnthn tulcod: Well, NQP has been in Parrot for quite a while, but it may just be that it's not in the main package...
15:45 tulcod 0.6.1?
15:45 jnthn Huh?!
15:45 tulcod is that old?
15:45 jnthn We're on like 1.1 now :-)
15:45 jnthn Yes, very.
15:45 tulcod okay, i guess i should kick the package maintainers' butts :P
15:46 masak mberends: what do you think, should we create circumfix:<` `> in proto after the next monthly release of Rakudo?
15:47 masak mberends: I think it's an abstraction which might come in handy in many places. right now we're a bit hampered by the administration with getting output from processes.
15:47 mberends yes! a fake backtick!
15:48 masak mberends: it can even be made forwards-compatible if we make sure to always write `$cmd` after putting the right command string in $cmd.
15:48 pmichaud I think that output from processes may have some support now in Rakudo.
15:48 pmichaud s/Rakudo/Parrot
15:49 mberends sweet, as in sugar
15:49 masak pmichaud: wow!
15:49 masak pmichaud: is there something I can do? can we get backticks before Thursday? :)
15:49 pmichaud We just need to test it and add the relevant bits to Rakudo.
15:49 pmichaud I might even be able to do that today.
15:49 masak awesome!
15:50 mberends (fake^H^H^H^Hreal backticks)++
15:50 masak lately, even the improvements in Rakudo have been getting better. :)
15:51 masak I bet the proto logotype knew this all along, and that's why it's so smug...
15:51 Tene pmichaud: is it possible to get rakudo to assume that the argument to -e is UTF-8?
15:51 pmichaud Tene: well, it's really Parrot that provides the arguments.
15:51 Tene ah
15:52 pmichaud (i.e., the args array in 'main')
15:52 pmichaud I'm not sure what encoding those assume by default.
15:53 pmichaud Let's check.
15:53 TimToady note that real backticks in STD should be quote: rather than circumfix:
15:53 TimToady since the insides are more like a string than an expression
15:53 Tene I was thinking of trying again to add support for term:<∅> and such to rakudo.  I failed the last time I tried.
15:53 TimToady not that STD does backticks, but that's how it *would* do them
15:54 jnthn TimToady: Does Perl 6 do backticks?
15:54 pmichaud Tene: It's very unlikely to work until we revamp the parser.
15:54 TimToady jnthn: no
15:54 Tene ah
15:54 jnthn Ah. :-)
15:54 * Tene AFK driving
15:54 TimToady but it does do qqx//
15:54 TimToady backticks are reserved for user syntax
15:57 pmichaud Tene: Parrot assumes that command-line arguments are fixed_8 encoding.
15:57 pmichaud If we can find a way to convert the fixed_8 to utf8, then that might work.
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16:00 nixphreak is there a parrot channel ?
16:00 nixphreak or is it called something else
16:00 PerlJam nixphreak: #parrot on irc.perl.org
16:00 nixphreak looking for more information using different languages on parrot
16:01 nixphreak ok thanks
16:01 nixphreak wow perl has its own ircd
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16:02 tulcod yeah, and ircd is so hard to setup! :O
16:03 nixphreak that wasn't the point
16:03 tulcod oh :P
16:03 pmichaud Tene:  more to the point, parrot thinks the command-line arguments are ascii
16:03 PerlJam tulcod: no need to be snarky whatever the point was.
16:03 tulcod j/k guys
16:03 pmichaud I'm not at all sure how to convert them to be unicode/utf8.
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16:05 pmichaud http://gist.github.com/114189
16:05 masak tulcod: so, have you tried Rakudo yet?
16:05 tulcod trying to get things to work... currently waiting for parrot 1.1.0 to compile
16:05 masak ah, been there. :)
16:06 masak tulcod: well, good luck!
16:06 * masak heads home to make nom
16:06 tulcod yeah, thanks :{
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16:26 Infinoid pmichaud: On unix at least, we might be able to change that based on $ENV{TERM}
16:26 Infinoid It's a fair bet that if the terminal is set up to handle utf8 output, it also provides utf8 input
16:28 Infinoid That will help for interactive command line use, at least.  I don't have a good answer to the question of which encoding a calling script was written in
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16:42 jnthn pmichaud: Pondering doing Rakudo Day tomorrow, to help get a few more bits in shape for the release, if that works for you.
16:42 pmichaud that works for me.
16:42 pmichaud Thursday and Friday won't be so good.
16:42 jnthn Friday would be the other choice. But, sounds good.
16:43 pmichaud Much of Friday I'll be on airplanes.
16:43 jnthn Ah, flying off to remote job?
16:43 pmichaud no, visiting in-laws for niece's graduation
16:43 jnthn Oh, nice. :_)
16:43 jnthn *:-)
16:44 * jnthn can't quite believe it's coming up on 3 years since his own graduation
16:45 jnthn Feels strange to think it's been a year here in Slovakia too...
16:45 * Tene can believe it's coming up on four years since dropping out of uni
16:47 jnthn pmichaud: Even if I get the branch for switching us over to Perl6MultiSub completely ready before the release, I'm thinking it may be sensible to merge it in afterwards.
16:48 jnthn Unless you see a strong reason to try and make merging that a target for the release.
16:48 pmichaud I don't.
16:48 pmichaud (I.e., I agree it's okay to wait for the release.)
16:49 pmichaud We should also remember that we'll have a PARROT_REVISION freeze between parrot's release today and Rakudo's release.
16:49 jnthn pmichaud: Yes. I got a fix into Parrot for hll_map of MultiSub yesterday.
16:49 pmichaud I'm thinking it's not likely I'll get the combine-loadinit-into-one-sub before Parrot's release, unless the release is much later today.
16:49 jnthn Though it may not be the only one that's needed. But OK, I won't push on it quite so much.
16:50 jnthn Well, if it goes in a bit after we can bump Rakudo up to it after the Rakudo release. It'll be a nice performance win, but it's not critical as such.
16:50 pmichaud Agreed.
16:51 pmichaud It should go in shortly after.
16:51 jnthn Works for me.
16:51 pmichaud (as in, this week)
16:51 pmichaud I'm also expecting to do the rakudo release very late tomorrow
16:51 jnthn I think it should be quite a good release feature wise.
16:51 pmichaud it'll still be "Thursday", but it'll be 00h00 Thursday instead of much later :-)
16:52 jnthn ;-)
16:52 jnthn Thursday is a kinda vague definition anyway.
16:52 jnthn There's plenty of your Wednesday that you could do the release that would be my Thursday. ;-)
16:52 pmichaud well, I consider valid Thursday to be anytime from 00:00 UTC Thu to 05:00 UTC Fri  :-)
16:53 pmichaud (where 05:00 UTC Fri corresponds to 00:00 CDT Fri :-)
16:53 jnthn :-)
16:54 * jnthn afk for a bit, will update changelog a bit and probably other Rakudo bits later
16:54 pmichaud although I _will_ hold the release if I don't have the ROADMAP ready by then :-|
16:54 pmichaud (which means I really want to get the ROADMAP done.)
16:54 jnthn Yes, that would be really good to have.
16:54 pugs_svn r26885 | lwall++ | [STD] allow only =begin END to omit its =end
16:54 pugs_svn r26885 | lwall++ | [STD] better fix for masak++'s bug
16:55 jnthn I wonder how much of the ROADMAP did we already did since we discussed what should be on it in Oslo. ;-)
16:55 pmichaud heh
16:55 pmichaud some, but not all.
16:56 jnthn If we'd managed all of it, that would be pretty scary.
16:56 pmichaud we did get some big items done this month, though.
16:56 pmichaud And the next month is looking quite good as well.
16:56 moritz_ aye, the ChangeLong is fairly impressive
16:57 pmichaud time for lunch here.
16:58 moritz_ nom is a good idea
16:58 jnthn aye, that's why I was about to go afk too :-)
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17:00 dalek rakudo: ac60b66 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
17:00 dalek rakudo: "2009-05-19 00:00",9d2934e,11297,0,389,2199,13885,16603,391
17:00 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ac60b66366cc02e7ff1fe45d49e6ed231b6d009c
17:01 pmichaud oops, wrong line in log.  Oh well.
17:01 Tene heh
17:03 jnthn rakudo: say 11297 - 10467
17:03 p6eval rakudo ac60b6: OUTPUT«830␤»
17:03 moritz_ that's still above average (discounting the regex peak from previous release)
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17:23 Tene rakudo: my $a = PAST::Node.new(); say $a.WHAT();
17:23 p6eval rakudo ac60b6: OUTPUT«PAST::Node()␤»
17:28 pmurias joined #perl6
17:33 azawawi joined #perl6
17:34 azawawi TimToady: thx for the previous two STD fixes... TimToady++
17:34 lambdabot azawawi: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
17:34 azawawi @messages
17:34 lambdabot TimToady said 2h 20m 19s ago: there is no builtin "int" function, and you can't use the type name "int" as a listop, though int() would work
17:44 justatheory joined #perl6
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18:09 Su-Shee joined #perl6
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18:09 Su-Shee hi.
18:09 moritz_ hi
18:10 Su-Shee I've got a build error since "bratislava" concerning perl6_ops_cg...
18:11 Su-Shee which I don't understand: http://pastie.org/483039
18:11 Su-Shee (build with perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot with perl 5.10)
18:12 moritz_ never seen that one before
18:12 moritz_ Su-Shee: does that still happen for a current version of Rakudo?
18:12 Su-Shee didn't found anything with google either.. yes, it does.
18:12 Su-Shee just pulled freshly from git
18:13 alester joined #perl6
18:13 moritz_ Su-Shee: could you also paste the output from Configure.pl please?
18:14 Su-Shee sec, clean it and re-do.
18:14 rewtv6 joined #perl6
18:15 lichtkind_ joined #perl6
18:17 Su-Shee moritz_: checks out parrot, builds parrot without errors.. up until "Reading configuration information from parrot/parrot_config" and telling me to invoke gmake.
18:17 pugs_svn r26886 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] version 0.57 contains two important STD fixes
18:17 moritz_ Su-Shee: you could please nopaste it nonetheless?
18:17 Su-Shee moritz_: ok.
18:19 jnthn Su-Shee: That's a bug in GCC.
18:20 jnthn No known workaround.
18:20 Su-Shee "oh".
18:20 jnthn Other than use a different version of GCC.
18:20 jnthn I saw this happen to someone else who lives near me.
18:20 jnthn Different gcc version resolved it.
18:21 jnthn It appears it tries to be too clever in doing a structure copy.
18:21 jnthn And then exhausts the registers it can use.
18:21 DemoFreak joined #perl6
18:21 jnthn We have a macro in Parrot that attempts to deal with it, but it appears that some version of gcc it doesn't help. :-(
18:21 jnthn (see STRUCT_COPY)
18:22 Su-Shee well, perl6 is more important to me than a specific gcc version, so I'll update.
18:22 jnthn I've been there and tried all of pointer assignment, memcpy, memmove...and no luck wiht any of them. :-(
18:22 jnthn Sucks...
18:22 jnthn Su-Shee: What gcc version are you on atm btw?
18:22 Su-Shee gcc (GCC) 4.1.2
18:23 jnthn That rings a bell from last time.
18:24 jnthn The may be a workaround, but I've tried all I can think of already.
18:24 jnthn And as you said, not much help to find on Google...
18:24 Su-Shee well, I suspected something like this, this linux isn't the most recent one..
18:25 jnthn Anyway, you're not the first person I've seen hit this one, at least. :-)
18:26 Su-Shee well another very good reason to update.. I want my fresh perl6. :)
18:26 jnthn :-)
18:27 iblechbot joined #perl6
18:28 pugs_svn r26887 | mberends++ | add Temporal.t (and Temporal.pm within) currently fails with perl6_s1.pbc
18:43 japhb jnthn, pmichaud: Do you have dependency info for the ROADMAP milestones?  I just taught myself graphviz for doing a task dependency graph at $day_job, so if you've got the data, I could use the practice, and if it works you'd get a nice (not shiny, just functional) graphic out of it.
19:14 icwiener_ joined #perl6
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19:23 ruoso joined #perl6
19:24 ruoso Hello!
19:24 moritz_ hi ruoso
19:25 TimToady mberends: that's not legal Perl 6
19:25 ruoso what's up!
19:25 TimToady std: sub infix:\x{00ab}<=>\x{00bb}( Temporal::Time $left, Temporal::Time $right ) {...}
19:25 p6eval std 26887: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Malformed block at /tmp/b1QyZyZEIS line 1:␤------> [32msub infix:[31m\x{00ab}<=>\x{00bb}( Temporal::Time $lef[0m␤    expecting signature␤FAILED 00:02 35m␤»
19:27 TimToady you can't just replace any old character with a \x sequence, and even if you could, \x{...} is P5 notation, not P6
19:32 TimToady std: my ($offset = 8765, $t1, $t2 ); #
19:32 p6eval std 26887: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Can't put required parameter after optional parameters at /tmp/TQZPnmMT11 line 1:␤------> [32mmy ($offset = 8765, $t1[31m, $t2 ); #[0m␤    expecting any of:␤    parameter␤        post_constraint␤  trait␤  whitespace␤FAILED 00:02 37m␤»
19:33 TimToady there's an interesting failure
19:33 jnthn That's a fail?
19:33 jnthn Isn't it a signature after my?
19:34 mberends TimToady: [red-faced] er, it was French quotes when I started several editors ago, it's not what I intended either. Assuming French quotes are fine, will re-commit. Thanks for the eagle eyeing.
19:34 TimToady no eagle eyes involved, except STD.pm
19:35 TimToady jnthn: yes, syntactically it's parsed as a sig, but nothing is ever bound to it, so the zones kinda don't matter
19:36 jnthn rakudo: my ($offset = 8765, $t1, $t2 ); say $offset;
19:36 p6eval rakudo ac60b6: OUTPUT«8765␤»
19:37 jnthn neh neh ;-)
19:37 TimToady rakudo: sub foo ($offset = 8765; $t1, $t2) {...}
19:37 p6eval rakudo ac60b6:  ( no output )
19:37 TimToady rakudo: sub foo ($offset = 8765, $t1, $t2) {...}
19:37 p6eval rakudo ac60b6:  ( no output )
19:38 TimToady mums the word
19:38 TimToady std: sub foo ($offset = 8765, $t1, $t2) {...}
19:38 p6eval std 26887: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Can't put required parameter after optional parameters at /tmp/fQGGRG3WNB line 1:␤------> [32msub foo ($offset = 8765, $t1[31m, $t2) {...}[0m␤    expecting any of:␤     parameter␤        post_constraint␤  trait␤  whitespace␤FAILED 00:02 37m␤»
19:38 jnthn Awww.
19:38 ruoso @tell pmurias you removed the init_destr_2 test, is there any test that reproduces that behavior in its place?
19:38 lambdabot Consider it noted.
19:38 moritz_ that error message seems quite sane to me
19:39 TimToady yes, but not on the my
19:39 moritz_ right
19:39 TimToady though it would be sane if followed by := ...
19:40 TimToady so I'll probably let it stand
19:40 TimToady STD also complains about the second 'use v6' for some reason
19:42 pugs_svn r26888 | mberends++ | Temporal.t fixed infix typos picked up by TimToady++ and Std.pm
19:44 Trey joined #perl6
19:45 pugs_svn r26889 | lwall++ | [Temporal.t] couple more tweaks to keep STD happy
19:48 pugs_svn r26890 | lwall++ | [autoderef.t] missing =end
19:53 jferrero joined #perl6
19:59 dalek rakudo: 595d364 | pmichaud++ | src/parser/grammar.pg:
19:59 dalek rakudo: Update =begin/=end handling slightly (RT #65782).
19:59 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/595d36425ae7787d4fb7b99708b8df20bdf51df5
20:00 jrockway joined #perl6
20:25 masak joined #perl6
20:25 masak std: my ($a = 1, $b = 2) = 3, 4;
20:25 p6eval std 26890: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 38m␤»
20:25 masak rakudo: my ($a = 1, $b = 2) = 3, 4; say $a, $b;
20:26 p6eval rakudo 595d36: OUTPUT«34␤»
20:26 masak so, different rules hold within signatures-in-declarations and signatures-in-parameter-lists?
20:28 masak mberends: oh, oh! return sprintf '%02d:%02d:%02d', .hour, .minute, .second given self;
20:28 masak oh course!
20:28 masak s/h/f/
20:30 masak std: =begin pod␤=end pod1␤=end pod
20:30 p6eval std 26890: OUTPUT«Undefined␤ok 00:02 35m␤»
20:30 masak TimToady: I argued in the ticket that this shouldn't be defined either. forgot to cc p6c.
20:32 masak http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=65782#txn-565612
20:33 masak er, s/defined/permitted/
20:33 meppl joined #perl6
20:33 mberends masak: better golf it is. checking with stage 1 compiler we are unable.
20:34 masak mberends: note that I don't entirely focus on shortness; if so, I'd have preffered the $_-as-invocant version.
20:34 masak rather, I'm trying to make it read well. :P
20:35 mberends this one does read well :)
20:35 masak another variant is (.hour, .minute, .second).fmt('%02d', ':'), that's also quite nice.
20:36 * masak ♥ Perl 6
20:37 mberends where's the join implied in that last one?
20:37 masak mberends: there are four .fmt methods, one is on List.
20:37 masak (the other three are on Any, Hash and Pair)
20:38 masak s/Hash/Map/
20:38 * ruoso decommute &
20:38 * moritz_ hasn't really looked at .fmt at all
20:38 masak it's just sugar.
20:38 masak but oh how sweet!
20:38 moritz_ ;-)
20:39 moritz_ just like @list.grep: Int ;-)
20:39 masak mmm!
20:39 Su-Shee jnthn: ha! with a slightly newer gcc, everything builds fine. I've just updated to 4.2.4 which was seemingly new enough.
20:40 jnthn Su-Shee: Nice!
20:40 jnthn you can haz rakudo
20:40 masak that should be the name of someone's talk.
20:40 Su-Shee well, everyone with a standard slackware 12.0 will have the problem as me then..
20:42 Su-Shee and there my shiny new perl6 executable is and everything works just fine fresh from git.
20:43 masak has this question been thoroughly explored yet: now that we have user-ops, what new cool technologies are possible? mathematics is one simple answer; what else?
20:43 mberends where does one share successful procedures such as this Slackware experience?
20:43 PerlJam mberends: use.perl.org is one place
20:44 masak PerlJam: or it used to be, until everyone left. :)
20:44 moritz_ well, not everyone left
20:44 masak I know, I overgeneralized.
20:45 masak I'm still there, for one.
20:45 moritz_ and I foolishly offered to install a shared blogging system on perlblog.org once I'm back from vacations
20:45 masak moritz_: cool!
20:45 moritz_ (after Ovid's rant)
20:45 Su-Shee I'll post it a linux forum where serveral slackware package maintainer are reading.
20:45 masak mberends: how's the Yarn idea going?
20:47 mberends masak: yes, now that the blogserver RAD storm has blown over, I shall refactor the HTTP bits and add sessions and authentication.
20:47 * masak kinda dug that RAD storm
20:47 jnthn moritz_: I saw that. If you do so, I'll probably migrate.
20:47 jnthn If it seems there's going to be a general movement in that direction, anyways
20:48 masak mberends: let's keep in touch over those HTTP refactorings. I'm interested in where HTTP::Daemon is going.
20:49 mberends masak: sure. HTTP::Engine is similar, and may be worth porting as well for comparison.
20:50 masak mberends: aye.
20:50 masak I think it should be the super-easy default for Web.pm.
20:51 masak Apache is nice and all, but not so easy to provide out-of-the-box.
20:53 Su-Shee I've half finished a little blog in rakudo.
20:53 masak :)
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21:01 masak Su-Shee: I'd be interested in reading whatever source you have. so would other people in here, I think. please consider pushing it somewhere and/or blogging about it.
21:01 payload joined #perl6
21:02 Su-Shee masak: I thought, I'll anounce it on the Perl6 users ML and wrap it into a little tutorial.
21:03 masak Su-Shee: whatever way you prefer, of course.
21:04 masak this topic naturally interests me, since I've been writing web apps in Rakudo for almost a year, and since I'm now developing Web.pm to make it easier for people to do so.
21:04 Su-Shee masak: I've read about it and I know that the I think russian guy writes a blog engine..
21:04 masak Su-Shee: correct. Ilya writes Maya.
21:06 Su-Shee right now, I'm mostly confused about the usage of roles.
21:06 masak Su-Shee: I know the feeling...
21:06 cognominal joined #perl6
21:08 masak Su-Shee: as far as I understand, though, they're a way to introduce reusable behavior, but they're not (as is inheritance) restricted to a tree topology.
21:08 Su-Shee if I take the keyword "does" seriously, I suddenly have more components which "do" something instead of "being" something. :)
21:08 masak Su-Shee: that's not necessarily a bad sign.
21:08 jnthn Su-Shee: The use of "does" is a good linguistic hing. :-)
21:08 jnthn *hit
21:08 jnthn ...
21:08 jnthn *hint
21:08 * jnthn hopes he recovers his typing skills before Rakudo Day tomorrow
21:08 Su-Shee that's what I thought. :)
21:09 masak Su-Shee: just keep things flexible and go with what feels right. :)
21:09 * masak considers taking up a job writing an advice column on role play
21:09 Su-Shee masak: right now, even to the unexperienced without handbook perl6 feels extremely fast and smooth to code. and I'm not even a computer scientist.
21:09 masak Su-Shee: full ack.
21:10 masak I'm not a CSist either.
21:10 Su-Shee and it's _compact_ - everything is suddenly short compared to Perl 5.
21:10 jnthn Su-Shee: I've talked about roles various times in presentations; you may or may not find some of my slides helpful.
21:10 jnthn http://www.jnthn.net/papers/2008-yapc-eu-perl6oo.pdf is perhaps a good one to look at
21:11 masak Su-Shee: at least in Ideal Perl 6, it's short...
21:11 jnthn Which reminds me, I still failed to upload my slides from NPW. Gah!
21:11 Su-Shee jnthn: thanks.
21:11 pmurias joined #perl6
21:12 masak NPW slides upload fail.
21:12 masak I think I've failed to push mine to November. G'ah!
21:12 * masak does it now
21:12 Su-Shee masak: well I so can't wait .. :) and if I understand the features of parrot correctly, grand times are coming, I'm sure. :)
21:12 masak Su-Shee: they have been for the past 9 months or so. and they just keep on coming. :)
21:13 masak we're living in truly wondrous times.
21:13 masak mberends: so, how about a lightning talk about proto at YAPC::EU? :)
21:13 Su-Shee I've read some shorter pieces of wrapping the usal c libs in parrot to use them in rakudo and this looks extremely promising. (I think. :)
21:14 masak mberends: if we start planning now, it might reach the levels of crazy that proto deserves. :P
21:15 masak Su-Shee: I would really like such an ability.
21:15 masak someone, please publish a five-step tutorial to wrapping a C lib in a Rakudo script!
21:15 masak lurkers: ^
21:15 mberends masak: start procrastinating, proto's perfect for a live demo!
21:15 Su-Shee masak: there's one piece from chromatic I think..
21:15 iassai joined #perl6
21:16 masak mberends: we might create mock objects, so we can live-demo without a network conn.
21:16 masak Su-Shee: URL?
21:17 Su-Shee masak: http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2004/03/introducing_parrot_sdl.html
21:18 mberends masak: no way! that could so easily fail due to lack of testing, we would have to get stronger drugs ;)
21:18 masak Su-Shee: hm, doesn't go all the way to Rakudo, though...
21:19 masak mberends: it's only May... :)
21:19 masak the proto logotype looks like it's on pretty strong drugs...
21:19 jnthn masak: masak doing mine now :-)
21:20 masak jnthn: your slides? excellent.
21:21 ZuLuuuuuu joined #perl6
21:21 masak jnthn: so, rakudo day tomorrow, eh?
21:21 mberends masak: safer to bring another laptop with a private github and a crossover cable
21:21 masak 'private github'? :)
21:22 mberends it's open source, build your own hub
21:22 masak would that one thrash and scale badly like the public one does?
21:22 masak mberends: github is closed source, I think.
21:22 mberends masak: ok, that's the mock to do then
21:23 masak there's still plenty of time.
21:23 jnthn masak: Yes, tomorrow
21:23 Su-Shee masak: HA! I found it. The most complete example I know of is the old SQLLite experiment in the parrot-source tree under "ext/"
21:24 masak mberends: of course, proto will only be the eye candy for our then Actual project: a Real package manager for Perl 6. :)
21:24 masak Su-Shee: indeed. worth taking a look at. again.
21:24 masak jnthn: \o/
21:25 Su-Shee all right. now I can sleep happily. ;) happy hackin' everyone.
21:26 * masak heads bedwards too
21:26 masak 'night, all.
21:26 Su-Shee left #perl6
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21:36 jnthn http://www.jnthn.net/articles.shtml # for anyone interested in my NPW slides
21:41 payload joined #perl6
21:44 bacek joined #perl6
21:52 ZuLuuuuuu jnthn: I'm interested, thanks
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23:15 TimToady @tell masak STD isn't trying to be a full POD parse yet, and I don't think writing the specs for it via the bug reporting system is going to be terribly efficient :)
23:15 lambdabot Consider it noted.
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23:56 japhb I have an array of pairs that I need to process in reverse order, and I naturally want the key and value in each loop iteration.  Is there a more colloquial way to do this than:  for @rray.reverse.map: {.kv} -> $k, $v { ... }
23:58 jnthn japhb: @rray.reverse.kv doesn't do it?
23:58 japhb jnthn: no, because then you get array position and pair, rather than each pair's key and value
23:59 jnthn Oh, yes.

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