Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-06-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 ruoso yes
00:00 ruoso that's the idea
00:00 DanielC Cool.
00:00 ruoso you can also use the less verbose syntax
00:00 ruoso @@a = :name<Daniel>, 2, 3, 4;
00:00 pmichaud ruoso: note that this week it was ruled that semilists will have to produce something different from comma-lists (which is a reversal of the previous week's decision)
00:01 DanielC Interesting. I didn't know any of this.
00:01 ruoso so plain infix:<,> won't produce named args
00:02 ruoso pmichaud, does that mean
00:02 ruoso @@a = (:name<Daniel>; 2; 3; 4);
00:02 ruoso will produce named member?
00:02 pmichaud I don't know in that case.  The case that was discussed is    @a[2;3;4]   versus  @a[2,3,4]
00:03 pmichaud the 2;3;4 and 2,3,4 have to be distinguished somehow -- i.e., they can't both be the same kind of Capture
00:03 pmichaud and according to S09 (to the extent that I understand it), the @@ syntax is for semilists
00:04 ruoso ah... ok...
00:04 pmichaud or "slices"
00:04 ruoso anyway... it'll take some time untill I get to implement that...
00:04 ruoso so this is not high-priority now...
00:05 pmichaud same here; but it does indicate that the kind-of-capture we get is dependent on the syntax used to create it.
00:05 pmichaud I'm suspecting that may become true for named arguments and possibly invocants and array/hash flattening as well
00:06 pmichaud (then again, it may not.  TimToady will decide :-)
00:17 meppl joined #perl6
00:24 ruoso DanielC, I just replied to your last mail...
00:27 DanielC hi
00:28 ruoso DanielC, I hope the explanation helps... my brain is not working properly right now
00:28 * DanielC reads ruoso's email
00:28 DanielC What is a multi sub?
00:29 ruoso is a sub that have several variant implementations, each one with a signature...
00:29 DanielC Ok, I see in the email...
00:29 DanielC Interesting.
00:29 ruoso when you invoke a multi, it will invoke the code with the matching signature
00:30 DanielC That could make an interesting blog post.
00:30 ruoso please do it...
00:30 DanielC Sure.
00:30 ruoso my brain is not really working to write a proper text for posting
00:30 DanielC Are you sure you don't want to write it later when your brain is working again?
00:31 ruoso nah... then I'll have other stuff to take care of
00:31 DanielC ok
00:32 DanielC I'll write something, but probably not tomorrow.
00:32 ruoso DanielC, but did you understand how the code work?
00:33 ruoso after the explanation?
00:33 DanielC I'm still reading.
00:33 DanielC ((5 rpn 4) rpn '+') rpn 3  ?
00:33 ruoso yes...
00:33 DanielC ah, I see how that works.
00:33 DanielC The second calls a different sub.
00:34 ruoso rakudo: multi infix:<BLA!> { say $^a ~ $^b }; 'A' BLA! 'B'
00:34 p6eval rakudo 97f141:  ( no output )
00:34 ruoso rakudo: multi infix:<BLA> { say $^a ~ $^b }; 'A' BLA 'B'
00:34 p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«AB␤»
00:35 ruoso DanielC, yes, because '+' won't match the first signature
00:36 amoc joined #perl6
00:36 DanielC I think I understand the code now.
00:37 DanielC thanks for the explanation.
00:37 DanielC ruoso: Does .words do the right thing?
00:37 ruoso DanielC, I'll wait for your blog post now ;)
00:38 DanielC I mean, does it deal with "2+" correctly?
00:38 ruoso DanielC, it requires white spaces between the tokens
00:38 ruoso no, it doesn't
00:38 DanielC ok
00:40 DanielC Ok, I think I understand everything.
00:41 snarkyboojum joined #perl6
00:41 ruoso cool...
00:41 * ruoso sleep &
00:45 pasteling "ruoso" at 189.97.60.4 pasted "multi-reduce based RPN calculator, simplified code by grouping similar multi candidates" (32 lines, 741B) at http://sial.org/pbot/37098
00:45 ruoso DanielC, look the above paste... I think the code is better now
00:45 DanielC *click*
00:46 DanielC ok
00:48 pasteling "ruoso" at 189.97.60.4 pasted "multi-reduce based RPN calculator, simplified the code even further, by adding an array to the arguments to [rpn]" (27 lines, 548B) at http://sial.org/pbot/37099
00:48 ruoso DanielC, better yet now
00:48 DanielC *click*
00:49 DanielC better
00:49 DanielC I think I like this one best.
00:50 pasteling "ruoso" at 189.97.60.4 pasted "multi-reduce based RPN calculator, the token being external to the signature was pretty useless now..." (26 lines, 528B) at http://sial.org/pbot/37100
00:51 Whiteknight joined #perl6
00:51 * ruoso really sleep &
00:52 ruoso DanielC, I think that was the last one now...
00:52 DanielC ok
00:54 snarkyboojum_ joined #perl6
01:10 beggars joined #perl6
01:13 mib_ngttfa joined #perl6
01:18 awarefish joined #perl6
01:28 sri_kraih joined #perl6
02:15 snarkyboojum joined #perl6
02:55 jonathanturner joined #perl6
03:02 meppuru joined #perl6
03:03 snarkyboojum joined #perl6
03:17 sri_kraih joined #perl6
03:45 szabgab joined #perl6
03:45 cottoo joined #perl6
03:47 [particle] joined #perl6
03:49 frew|work joined #perl6
04:39 snarkyboojum joined #perl6
04:58 finanalyst joined #perl6
05:36 pasteling "japhb" at 76.191.190.8 pasted "ruoso: golfed your previous multi RPN calculator using 'do given'" (23 lines, 500B) at http://sial.org/pbot/37101
05:39 japhb ruoso: "There ain't no such thing as the [best] code."
05:39 japhb :-)
05:48 pugs_svn r27014 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]:  want clarifications on .exists in exists.t
05:59 japhb rakudo: multi infix:<foo> ($a, $b) { say eval "$a + $b" }; my ($a, $b) = 1, 2; $a foo $b
05:59 p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«Lexical '$!' not found␤in sub infix:foo (/tmp/mbOdZk8Bqx:2)␤called from Main (/tmp/mbOdZk8Bqx:2)␤»
05:59 japhb Bug?
06:00 literal it's interesting that Scala has $_ (except they call it _ since they don't have sigils)
06:00 mberends joined #perl6
06:00 literal are there any other mainstream languages which have "it" ?
06:01 japhb literal: several have the concept of setting a topic, but they often allow "it" to be completely invisible.
06:03 japhb (I'm thinking of syntax like 'with' or 'using' that allows a long expression returning an object to set the current topic, and have all method calls within the scope of the 'with' or 'using' that do not specify an invocant to implicitly use the topic as invocant.)
06:04 japhb Not unlike, say ... given.  :-)
06:22 Infinoid I don't know how "mainstream" you'd consider sed to be, but I think that's probably where perl got it
06:22 pasteling "japhb" at 76.191.190.8 pasted "ruoso: Further tweak; now @*ARGS need not be quoted (except for '*' on unix-like systems, of course)" (23 lines, 500B) at http://sial.org/pbot/37102
06:24 japhb Infinoid: given that sed still infects vast numbers of shell scripts, it's at least mainstream-ish.  :-)
06:24 dalek rakudo: d90577b | pmichaud++ |  (7 files):
06:24 dalek rakudo: Refactor postcircumfix:<[ ]> and Whatever handling.
06:24 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d90577b1f657040bbb5b40e9b0cfc67927522ae6
06:26 Infinoid Hooray for perl -pe
06:27 japhb How do I get the invokable for a particular multi?  In other words, how do I get the Num/Num variant of infix:<+>?
06:30 japhb I wonder where the perl -p0le is?
06:30 japhb Wherever $Larry currently lives?
06:40 finanalyst i am getting "no ICU lib loaded
06:40 finanalyst in method Perl6Pair::perl (src/gen_setting.pm:1244)"
06:41 finanalyst the code was working a few days ago
06:41 finanalyst anyone come across this?
06:42 finanalyst what is the ICU lib?
06:42 mberends unicode
06:42 finanalyst ahhhh.  then .perl has stopped liking unicode
06:43 japhb finanalyst: I would read that as wanting ICU before fighting with Unicode.
06:43 mberends "International Components for Unicode" from Debian description
06:44 finanalyst rakudo: my $x='привет'; say $x.perl
06:44 p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«"привет"␤»
06:44 japhb ICU used to be optional, though strongly suggested.  May still be the case, I dunno.  But I've always been in the "Sheesh, just require it already!" camp.  Maybe that camp finally won.  :-)
06:45 finanalyst why does the above snippet work here, but not locally for me?
06:46 finanalyst previously, all versions of rakudo worked nicely with unicode without any options
06:47 japhb I would guess that the evalbot is running on a box with ICU installed.
06:47 mberends finanalyst: look for icu in the output of 'perl Configure.pl'
06:49 japhb rakudo: say %*VM<config><has_icu>
06:49 p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
06:50 japhb OK, that I didn't expect.
06:50 finanalyst i have already run that. I get Config.pl to give output again?
06:50 finanalyst s/that/perl Configure.pl/
06:50 japhb finanalyst: Just run this: perl6 -e 'say %*VM<config><has_icu>'
06:51 * japhb wonders why evalbot does the wrong thing
06:51 mberends oh, perl Configure.pl produces very little output now, even after a realclean
06:52 finanalyst japhb: your oneliner does work
06:53 finanalyst sorry my local perl6 has gone walk-about.
06:56 finanalyst just run into a problem. Pulled latest version rakudo. run perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot. then make. Got:
06:56 finanalyst make: *** No rule to make target `src/classes/WhateverCode.pir', needed by `perl6_s1.pbc'.  Stop.
06:57 finanalyst help!
06:57 mberends ditto here :(
06:58 viklund joined #perl6
06:58 finanalyst yesterday pm and timtoady talking about WhateverCode
06:59 mberends yes, git log shows Whatever changed
07:01 finanalyst how do i go back to a previous version using git?
07:01 * mberends reads git help reset
07:02 david__ joined #perl6
07:04 beggars joined #perl6
07:04 * mberends tests git reset --soft HEAD^
07:05 * mberends sees that the problem remains
07:07 japhb pmichaud: still awake?
07:08 finanalyst pm probably not woken up
07:08 japhb finanalyst: he pushed a commit about 45 minutes ago, I figured he might still be around ....
07:09 finanalyst i am now without working rakudo :(
07:11 mberends finanalyst: after 'git reset --soft HEAD^' did not help, 'git reset --hard HEAD^' did. Not sure if the second step must be preceded by the first. It works here.
07:12 * finanalyst trying to reset
07:16 finanalyst mberends: thanx
07:16 finanalyst any idea how to get ICU lib loaded?
07:17 finanalyst is it a parrot lib, or is it part of the environment?
07:17 japhb finanalyst: what OS are you using?
07:17 finanalyst ubuntu
07:18 amoc__ joined #perl6
07:18 finanalyst rakudo: say 'фывфыэ'.perl
07:18 p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
07:18 mberends not offhand. in either Configure.pl or Makefile, probably
07:18 japhb finanalyst: aptitude install libicu-dev
07:18 japhb Then reconfigure/regen Rakudo and Parrot.
07:18 finanalyst rakudo: my $x='фывфывфыэ'; say $x.perl
07:18 p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
07:19 japhb rakudo: %*VM<config><has_icu>.say
07:19 p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
07:19 finanalyst rakudo: my $x='привет'; say $x.perl
07:19 p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
07:19 japhb Ah!  I know what's going on!
07:19 finanalyst evalbot has changed
07:19 japhb evalbot is running into the same thing you guys are.
07:20 finanalyst that snippet worked at 10.44 (my time. its not 11.19)
07:20 finanalyst s/now/now
07:20 japhb Hmmm.  Years ago we had an evalbot that would notice a failed build and keep the old one around.  Would be a nice feature for the current one to support.
07:20 japhb Especially if it piped up to report a buildfail.
07:24 mberends seeya later!
07:33 ejs joined #perl6
07:45 DemoFreak joined #perl6
07:48 amoc joined #perl6
07:56 hanekomu joined #perl6
08:01 iblechbot joined #perl6
08:20 clintongormley joined #perl6
08:48 cls_bsd joined #perl6
08:51 phenny joined #perl6
09:06 bsb joined #perl6
09:11 xomas joined #perl6
09:17 pmurias joined #perl6
09:30 amoc left #perl6
09:48 pmurias is :(|$foo,|$bar) legal?
09:49 araujo in some states
09:49 pmurias :)
10:13 Chillance joined #perl6
10:14 Chillance joined #perl6
10:19 DanielC joined #perl6
10:21 M_o_C joined #perl6
10:26 pugs_svn r27015 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] mildew emits named readonly parameters correctly (lack runtime
10:26 pugs_svn r27015 | pmurias++ | support)
10:26 pugs_svn r27016 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] added --target-stage option to mildew
10:26 pugs_svn r27017 | pmurias++ | [re-smop]
10:26 pugs_svn r27017 | pmurias++ | added :(|$capture)
10:26 pugs_svn r27017 | pmurias++ | --target-stage 2 is the default
10:27 amoc joined #perl6
10:29 DanielC Are the characters //  (two slashes) already used for something? I want to make a new function infix:<//>
10:30 DanielC my Rational $rat = 3 // 4;   # <-- new Rational type.
10:30 pochi I think it might be the same as in perl5
10:31 pochi ie. return the first defined value
10:31 DanielC Remind me, what was it in perl5 ?
10:31 DanielC ?
10:32 DanielC I'm talking about // not ||
10:32 pochi yes, //
10:32 pochi || only returns the first true value
10:32 DanielC ah
10:32 DanielC rakudo: my $a = $b // 3;
10:32 p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
10:32 bsb joined #perl6
10:32 DanielC WTF
10:33 pochi current HEAD doesnt compile :/
10:33 DanielC :(
10:34 pochi here, "my $b // 3" returns "3"
10:35 DanielC thanks
10:35 DanielC So it's taken.
10:35 pochi I think most operators are defined in src/parser/grammar-oper.pg
10:35 DanielC thanks
10:36 barney joined #perl6
10:36 DanielC "div" seems to be available, but "over" seems to be taken (but I don't know what it means.
10:36 DanielC )
10:37 pochi where did you find "over"?
10:37 DanielC perl6 -e '3 over 4'
10:37 fridim_ joined #perl6
10:37 pochi not worky here
10:37 DanielC It gave an error that suggested that "over" made sense.
10:37 pochi ah
10:38 DanielC It gives a different error than perl6 -e '3 div 4'
10:38 pochi "over" is not listed in grammar-oper
10:38 pochi "div" is defined there however
10:38 DanielC That other error suggests "I don't know what div is"
10:38 pochi perl6 -e '3 abcdef 4' gives the same error as "over"
10:39 pochi and Im pretty sure there is no abcdef operator :)
10:39 DanielC Interesting. So maybe "iv" is the one that is defined.
10:39 pochi i think so
10:40 DanielC perl6 -e '3 zygomrf_fuck_you 4'  <-- gives the same error as "over" and I sure hope *that* method does not exist.
10:40 pochi aye
10:40 DanielC Thanks for the help.
10:40 DanielC I'm planning to play a little with types.
10:41 DanielC I want to do:  my Rational ($a,$b) = (2 over 3, 3 over 4); say $a + $b;  And have that do the right thing.
10:42 pochi should be possible I think
10:42 DanielC I think it should be.
10:44 DanielC afk &
10:51 mberends joined #perl6
10:52 DanielC joined #perl6
11:01 finanalyst rakudo: my $x=5; say map { .say }, ^$x
11:01 p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
11:02 finanalyst evalbot still down?
11:10 masak joined #perl6
11:13 pugs_svn r27018 | pmurias++ | [re-mildew] fix tests
11:20 masak I must be blind -- I see "Running grants (2009 - VIII)" on news.perlfoundation.org , and then nothing for a long time, and then "Running grants (2009 - XI)". where did IX and X go?
11:22 lichtkind joined #perl6
11:24 mberends masak: dey musta been naughty children
11:24 masak mberends: I'm not at the point where I feel I can draw conclusions yet, but I've repeatedly felt a bit... cheated on the meta-summaries.
11:25 masak last time, the grant manager was ill, and we reluctantly compromised by retroactively changing the summary of activity, not to the actual activity, but to 'grant manager was ill'.
11:26 masak rakudo: 1.Str.say
11:26 p6eval rakudo 97f141: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
11:27 masak gnarl.
11:27 snarkyboojum joined #perl6
11:28 pochi seems the WhateverCode.pir file is missing
11:29 snarkyboojum joined #perl6
11:29 _Chillance_ joined #perl6
11:30 mberends masak: do you have the git-fu (and courage) to do a 'git reset --hard HEAD^' on evalbot?
11:30 masak git-fu yes, courage dunno. :)
11:30 alanhaggai joined #perl6
11:30 masak what happened?
11:31 mberends the last commit from pmichaud++ broke rakudo
11:32 masak oh.
11:32 * masak checks
11:33 viklund getting karma for breaking HEAD, interesting...
11:34 masak mberends: not sure the solution is git reset --hard HEAD^, then.
11:34 masak since it affects not just evalbot, but everyone.
11:34 masak maybe I should just revert the commit.
11:34 masak I have now confirmed that Rakudo is broken in HEAD.
11:34 masak reverting commit and rebuilding.
11:35 masak hm, seems to be an uncommitted file by pmichaud++.
11:39 mberends masak: yes, the reset is a local solution, but you can summon the courage to do it for everyone (Dutch courage is no good for this)
11:40 mberends viklund: see, even more karma ;)
11:40 masak mberends: no, I've just established that it fails to build with the latest commit, and builds without it.
11:41 masak no courage required to revert that. :)
11:41 masak there, pushed.
11:43 lichtkind mberends: most parts of appendix B are now english
11:43 DanielC class Foo { has $!a; has $.b } <-- $!a is private, $.b is public but read-only. How do you make a class property that is read-write?
11:43 masak DanielC: has $.b is rw;
11:43 viklund ;)
11:44 DanielC masak: thanks
11:44 dalek rakudo: 290012a | masak++ |  (7 files):
11:44 dalek rakudo: Revert "Refactor postcircumfix:<[ ]> and Whatever handling."
11:44 dalek rakudo: This reverts commit d90577b1f657040bbb5b40e9b0cfc67927522ae6. There seems
11:44 dalek rakudo: to have been an uncommitted file src/classes/WhateverCode.pir that
11:44 dalek rakudo: prevented build.
11:44 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/290012a464f07667f0b156415e2a2dc4f1f9c2f4
11:44 masak DanielC: and they're not called 'class property', but 'attribute'.
11:44 DanielC masak: ok
11:44 masak DanielC: mixing in the 'class' modifier here is confusing, because that can be interpreted as 'belonging to the whole class, not to particular object instances'
11:45 DanielC ok
11:45 DanielC Yes, just saying "attribute" is less ambiguous.
11:46 masak DanielC: also, using 'is rw' is discouraged -- not from a Perl 6 perspective, but from an OOD perspective. :)
11:46 masak actually, in Perl 5, it has been more or less OK, but in the Java community it's a no-no.
11:46 masak unless you're writing GUI widgets and worry about speed. :P
11:47 DanielC masak: What is OOD? I only know OOP... typo?  Anyways, I'm sure that it's a bad idea, I just wanted to know how to do it.
11:47 masak DanielC: ...Design.
11:47 DanielC ah
11:48 masak DanielC: you can also make private attributes readonly with 'is readonly'.
11:48 DanielC class Foo { has Int $.a } # <-- Is this correct?
11:48 DanielC (the type)
11:48 masak aye.
11:48 DanielC thanks
11:49 masak rakudo: class Foo { has Int $.a }; say Foo.new( :a(42) ).a
11:49 p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«42␤»
11:49 masak rakudo: 1.Str.say
11:49 p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«Int()<0xb61f5450>␤»
11:49 * masak submits rakudobug
11:51 masak phenny: tell pmichaud I reverted your d90577 commit, because there seems to have been an uncommitted file src/classes/WhateverCode.pir preventing build.
11:51 phenny masak: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
11:53 Whiteknight joined #perl6
11:54 clintongormley masak: You said "using 'is rw' is discouraged" - but surely some attributes need to be rw
11:54 masak clintongormley: why?
11:54 clintongormley i create a new $payment
11:54 clintongormley send for processing
11:55 clintongormley received $dollars
11:55 clintongormley update $payment.received
11:55 clintongormley and $payment.status
11:55 clintongormley am i missing something?
11:55 masak clintongormley: oh, I was too vague. I meant "using 'is rw' on public attributes is discouraged"
11:55 clintongormley oh ok
11:55 masak because it exposes too much of the guts of the class.
11:56 masak making it harder to change the API later.
11:56 clintongormley so is a public attribute not marked rw modifiable by the class itself? or a subclass?
11:57 * clintongormley doesn't use Moose btw, just plain ol' vanilla perl5 OO
11:58 masak clintongormley: right. public attributes are readonly by default.
11:59 clintongormley masak: but it is modifiable by the class or subclass?
11:59 masak clintongormley: ah. every public attribute has an underlying private attribute, which is modifieable from inside the class.
11:59 masak and from inside subclasses.
11:59 clintongormley ahhh right - thanks
12:00 clintongormley i need to take a couple of weeks and learn about the Moose paradigm
12:00 masak actually, the 'public attribute' is just a way to automatically generate a read accessor -- a getter.
12:00 clintongormley right
12:00 masak clintongormley: aye, I should do that too. :)
12:01 clintongormley i see so many people praising its virtues, but the bugger is that I have a laaarge code base that I don't even want to consider converting
12:01 masak then don't.
12:01 clintongormley so i'm scared i might like it too much :)
12:02 clintongormley I've got an application framework (called Burro, cos 'it does the hard work for you')
12:02 clintongormley which is my version of DBIx::Class, Catalyst, plus a number of other things
12:02 clintongormley some bits are really good
12:02 clintongormley and others are crufty
12:02 clintongormley but i wrote it before those others were of much use
12:03 clintongormley one of these days i'm going to have to replace the crufty bits with the good bits from those others
12:04 clintongormley of course, i've made sure that the framework is almost entirely devoid of tests, so I'll get no nasty test failures when I do finally convert
12:05 lichtkind mberends: operator table in social wiki is nealry impossible
12:05 mberends lichtkind: :(
12:05 lichtkind mberends: but please have a kook at appendix when im finished in a minute
12:07 masak lichtkind: I'll have a kook too if you post the URL.
12:09 lichtkind masak: in a minute
12:09 viklund_ rakudo: say "I'm online*
12:10 viklund_ rakudo: say "I'm online"
12:10 p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near " \"I'm onli"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:2417)␤»
12:10 p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«I'm online␤»
12:10 viklund_ masak++
12:10 DanielC Is + a multi-function? In other words, can I define 'multi sub infix:<+> (Rational $a, Rational $b)' to make a custom + function for my personal "Rational" type?
12:10 viklund_ DanielC: yes, I thinks so
12:10 masak DanielC: aye.
12:10 DanielC cool
12:10 viklund_ otherwise you can't use it for your own types
12:10 DanielC Perl 6 rocks.
12:10 masak DanielC: all core subs and methods are multi.
12:11 DanielC thanks
12:11 viklund_ $matrix1 + $matrix2
12:12 masak DanielC: _and_ it mostly just works in Rakudo today, so fire away.
12:12 DanielC :-)
12:12 DanielC I'm writing a blog post about Perl 6's cool type system.
12:13 DanielC Multi functions are part of that.
12:13 masak DanielC: they are indeed.
12:13 lichtkind masak: http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_lookup_table
12:15 masak lichtkind: nice work.
12:15 lichtkind masak: thanks i should had started that years before in english too
12:16 masak lichtkind: it's possible that I might want something very much like this for u4x too...
12:17 PacoLinux joined #perl6
12:19 lichtkind masak: whats the direct purpose of u4x?
12:19 masak lichtkind: I explain it quite clearly in http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/38279
12:19 masak (the latter part)
12:20 masak "Our official goal shall be to provide easy-to-access comprehensive user documentation, through a ridiculously easy-to-access command line tool, providing snippets of Perl 6 clarification so perfectly worded and so brilliantly illustrative that the unsuspecting reader will be brought close to tears."
12:23 lichtkind masak: aimed to p5 enviroment?
12:23 masak no, p6.
12:23 masak (hence 'for Christmas')
12:24 lichtkind masak: good because there is already Perl6::Doc, which i maintain btw
12:24 masak glad to hear that.
12:24 lichtkind masak: thatswhy we couuld sync a bit
12:24 masak absolutely.
12:27 masak ok, time for lunch.
12:27 lichtkind cu
12:27 payload joined #perl6
12:30 payload joined #perl6
12:32 iblechbot joined #perl6
12:33 cognominal joined #perl6
12:50 cognominal joined #perl6
13:00 icwiener joined #perl6
13:22 jnthn o/
13:22 DanielC moin
13:22 finanalyst hi
13:22 DanielC good afternoon.. actually
13:23 * DanielC has the habit of saying "moin" any time of day.
13:23 finanalyst how do i do a do a file test. spec says $file.:X but that doesnt seem to work
13:24 finanalyst rakudo: 'README'.:f
13:24 jnthn rakudo: say "perl6" ~~ :e;
13:24 p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«Multiple Dispatch: No suitable candidate found for 'concatenate_str', with signature 'PSP->P'␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:1303)␤»
13:24 p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«1␤»
13:25 jnthn rakudo: say "perl6" ~~ :f; say "perl6" ~~ :d;
13:25 p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«1␤0␤»
13:25 jnthn ako to
13:26 finanalyst rakudo: say 'README' ~~ :f
13:26 p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«1␤»
13:26 finanalyst thanx
13:26 jnthn rakudo: say "the-completed-perl-6-spec" ~~ :e
13:26 p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«0␤»
13:26 jnthn aww
13:28 finanalyst rakudo: say 'README' ~~ :r
13:28 p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«Method ':r' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤»
13:28 finanalyst not all the tests seem to have been implemented
13:33 jnthn maybe not, no
14:13 pmurias what's a good place to start a GSoC blog at?
14:17 payload own server with a omgblog ^^
14:26 pugs_svn r27019 | lwall++ | [STD] adverbs now produce a real node like a postfix
14:26 pugs_svn r27019 | lwall++ | [STD] precedence of adverbs changes to inside item_assignment
14:26 pugs_svn r27019 | lwall++ | [viv] properly translate :delete and :exists to p5
14:30 kate21de joined #perl6
14:32 pugs_svn r27020 | pmurias++ | [re-smop]
14:32 pugs_svn r27020 | pmurias++ | removed some backtracking from m0ld so that it has better error messages
14:32 pugs_svn r27020 | pmurias++ | the $reg = $invocant.(|$capture) form is not yet ported over
14:33 pugs_svn r27021 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] readonly named params are supported in new Signatures
14:39 mberends joined #perl6
14:39 [particle] joined #perl6
14:39 xinming joined #perl6
14:39 Jedai joined #perl6
14:39 cj joined #perl6
14:39 Sark joined #perl6
14:39 krakan joined #perl6
14:39 renormalist joined #perl6
14:39 edenc joined #perl6
14:39 Grrrr joined #perl6
14:39 s1n joined #perl6
14:39 arnsholt joined #perl6
14:39 StephenPollei joined #perl6
14:41 skids_ joined #perl6
14:43 om454545445 joined #perl6
14:44 om454545445 left #perl6
14:49 pmichaud ....okay, how do I get my commits back?
14:49 phenny pmichaud: 11:51Z <masak> tell pmichaud I reverted your d90577 commit, because there seems to have been an uncommitted file src/classes/WhateverCode.pir preventing build.
14:51 mberends er, shift-ctrl-Z ?
14:54 pmichaud foudn it.
14:54 pmichaud fixing.
14:54 mberends \o/
14:55 mberends there are quite a lot of TODO passes on spectest as well
14:56 DemoFreak joined #perl6
14:56 pmichaud yes.  Some of the recent changes we've made have caused TODO tests to pass, but we haven't gotten around to unfudging them yet.
14:56 dalek rakudo: b776b07 | pmichaud++ |  (8 files):
14:56 dalek rakudo: Refactor postcircumfix:<[ ]> and Whatever handling -- attempt #2.
14:56 dalek rakudo: This reverts commit 290012a464f07667f0b156415e2a2dc4f1f9c2f4.
14:56 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b776b070793ccb4ada246bd3f1f89ce992fa5a44
14:57 jnthn Reverting the reverted. :-)
14:59 Chillance joined #perl6
15:04 DanielC Hi. Can someone explain to a dummy what exactly a lexical variable? (ie. "my") How is it different from the local variables you see in other languages?
15:05 pmichaud rakudo:  my $x = * - 2;   say $x(5);
15:05 p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤invoke() not implemented in class 'Float'␤in Main (/tmp/8eBK7QdKmq:2)␤»
15:07 jnthn pmichaud: Old Rakudo?
15:07 skids_ DanielC: lexical refers to the text file that is your program.  A lexical is only valid over a certain section of that text file.  Like between two curlies, usually.
15:07 pmichaud I'm thinking it hasn't updated yet.
15:07 pmichaud rakudo:  my $x = * - 2;   say $x(5);
15:07 p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤invoke() not implemented in class 'Float'␤in Main (/tmp/5iwN8877O0:2)␤»
15:08 lichtkind mberends: i added bit navigation
15:08 pmichaud pmichaud@orange:~/rakudo$ ./perl6
15:08 pmichaud > my $x = * - 2;  say $x(5);
15:08 pmichaud 3
15:08 DanielC skids_: That sounds a lot like a "local" variable. Is there a difference you can think of?
15:08 lambdabot <no location info>: parse error on input `='
15:08 lichtkind mberends: im off now
15:08 kst joined #perl6
15:12 skids_ DanialC: "local" in what vernacular?
15:12 pugs_svn r27022 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]: Fudge unicode method names.  Unfudge unicode named parameters.
15:12 DanielC skids_: I think that in most programming languages a local variable is one that is only available inside a function.
15:12 pmichaud DanielC: yes, lexical variables generally correspond to the idea of local variables.
15:13 DanielC pmichaud: It seems odd that Perl would choose the word "lexical" for them. I was curious as to what else "lexical" implies.
15:14 DanielC The word "lexical" on its own means little to me. A lexicon is a vocabulary. Clearly that has nothing to do with scoping.
15:14 skids_ I think it's because perl5 had a "local" variable, different from "my".
15:15 DanielC In Perl 5 I always stayed away from "local" variables because I never felt I quite understood them. Whereas I feel I always know what "my" variables do.
15:16 pmichaud the term "lexical" refers more to scope than the variable itself.
15:16 pmichaud Basically, it's the scope that can be determined from statically looking at the nesting of blocks in the source.
15:17 DanielC ok...
15:17 skids_ perl5's "local" was, in contrast, dynamically scoped
15:18 DanielC Does the word "lexical" actually come from somewhere. It doesn't seem to come from "lexicon" (unless I'm confused and I don't know what "lexicon" means).
15:19 * antiphase wonders where the word "word" comes from
15:19 skids_ lexical I think comes from rules|law and is usually used to refer to rules of grammar.
15:20 DanielC ok
15:20 takadonet joined #perl6
15:20 takadonet hey everyone
15:20 skids_ So it's referring to the fact that the scope is confined entirely when the program is parsed -- the program does not need to be run in order to determine where the variable is valid.
15:20 jnthn hi takadonet
15:21 pmichaud “Lexical scope” in general is the idea that
15:21 pmichaud * an identifier at a particular place in a program always refers to the same variable location — where “always” means “every time that the containing expression is executed”, and that
15:21 pmichaud * the variable location to which it refers can be detemined by static examination of the source code context in which that identifier appears, without having to consider the flow of execution through the program as ga whole.
15:21 DanielC skids_: AH! That actually makes sense... Scoping is dictated by the rules/grammar of the language => defined at compile time.
15:21 pmichaud http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Lexical-Scope.html
15:21 feyner_ joined #perl6
15:22 DanielC *click*
15:22 pmichaud the rest of the page may be more confusing than helpful.
15:22 feyner_ left #perl6
15:23 pmichaud http://foldoc.org/lexical    # might be a bit more helpful
15:23 skids_ Whereas "dynamic" scope is determined at runtime.  So it requires electricity :-)
15:23 DanielC *click*
15:25 DanielC pmichaud/skids_: Thanks a lot.
15:25 DanielC I realize I was asking a somewhat difficult question.
15:25 pmichaud rakudo:  my $x = * - 2;  say $x(3);
15:25 p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤invoke() not implemented in class 'Float'␤in Main (/tmp/LhbvVLCOWV:2)␤»
15:25 pmichaud hmmpf.
15:27 * pmichaud shakes the p6eval bot.... "Wake up!"
15:28 pugs_svn r27023 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]:  Unfudge a passing todo.
15:28 PZt joined #perl6
15:30 takadonet join #perl
15:30 takadonet ...
15:31 takadonet sorry
15:31 skids_ pmichaud: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nJtd0Ua8sQ # for use in evalbot shaking
15:33 pugs_svn r27024 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]:  Unfudge some tests with my $x = * - 1;
15:37 pmichaud rakudo:  my $x = * - 2;  say $x(3);
15:37 p6eval rakudo 290012: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤invoke() not implemented in class 'Float'␤in Main (/tmp/G3TmnkVWG6:2)␤»
15:37 pmichaud oh, perhaps I didn't push?
15:38 pmichaud no, I pushed.
15:38 pmichaud hrm.
15:38 frew|work joined #perl6
15:42 FurnaceBoy joined #perl6
15:44 pugs_svn r27025 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]:  Unfudge passing todo test (jnthn++)
15:45 hanekomu_ joined #perl6
15:47 amoc left #perl6
15:50 synth joined #perl6
15:55 Jedai joined #perl6
16:01 alester joined #perl6
16:02 pugs_svn r27026 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]:  Some unfudging and re-fudging for rakudo.
16:03 mberends lichtkind: (wiki navigation)++
16:07 pugs_svn r27027 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]:  More unfudging for rakudo.
16:10 rindolf joined #perl6
16:23 Jedai joined #perl6
16:30 Psyche^ joined #perl6
16:51 Whiteknight joined #perl6
17:00 hanekomu joined #perl6
17:04 masak joined #perl6
17:09 FurnaceBoy_ joined #perl6
17:27 pugs_svn r27028 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]  More rakudo fudge cleanups.
17:38 takadonet joined #perl6
17:39 masak DanielC: (from backlog) actually, 'moin' has nothing to do with the time of day. it's from a Frisian word meaning 'beautiful'. http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/moin
17:39 DanielC masak: Really? I thought it was short for morning.
17:39 masak yes, so did I for a while.
17:42 clintongormley .oO ("Oh what a beautiful moooornniiiing, oh what a beautiful day!" )
17:44 mberends http://moinmo.in/Documentation :)
17:44 jnthn masak: Interesting blog post, I had kinda pondered the same thing...
17:44 masak jnthn: thank you. :) yes, it's on my mind a lot.
17:44 masak jnthn: an early version of that post held a reference to your 's and m' joke... :P
17:44 jnthn Oh noes!
17:45 masak jnthn: (which was not at all sexist, of course, but tactful and subtle)
17:45 jnthn What happens in Oslo, stays in Olso. ;-)
17:45 masak 哈哈
17:45 jnthn Actually (honestly) I wrote the slide title *and* the slide and it wasn't until the first time I said it out loud when giving the talk (I forget where) that I was like "oh..."
17:46 jnthn Actually nobody noticed either. :-)
17:46 masak :)
17:46 masak I think on that level, it's perfectly acceptable.
17:46 masak only those who have sufficiently dirty minds (like me) notice.
17:47 jnthn What are you saying about NPW attendees? ;-)
17:47 EvanCarroll left #perl6
17:47 masak jnthn: well, far as I recall, only pmichaud and I laughed loudly... :)
17:47 jnthn :-)
17:48 masak the rest are obviously very pure of mind and spirit. :P
17:48 jnthn Ah well, it lives on in the slides...
17:48 jnthn And hey, I can always claim it's a reference to the Metallica album. ;-)
17:48 masak :)
17:49 jnthn I just can't imagine giving a talk with pr0n in though. I'd kinda just not dare.
17:49 masak personally, I think it wasn't very tastefully done.
17:50 masak but Peter Szinek is right, that's not the main issue.
17:51 masak the presenter didn't apologise, but defended his presentation, saying he didn't think it was offensive. but that's not the main issue either.
17:51 masak the main issue is that large parts of the community then defend and encourage him.
17:53 jnthn I guess everyone in a community is part of the effort to shape it.
17:53 masak here in the Perl 6 community, we don't have the same proportion of women to offend, but I still don't think there's much of a danger that such a thing could happen. it wouldn't get to step 1 (the presentation), much less to step 3 (community stubbornly defending presenter)
17:54 masak jnthn: aye.
17:54 masak that's my thesis too.
17:54 jnthn And if that's the shape of community some people want, well, I'm not sure it's a shape I like, but it's kinda going to be the outcome...
17:54 jnthn Or at least, if it's what a large part want.
17:55 jnthn Which I guess is your point. Well all need to be thoughtful about the community norms we're introducing, and the boundaries we're contributing to setting.
17:55 jnthn s/Well/We/
17:55 masak aye.
17:56 jnthn I'm encouraged by the shape the Perl 6 community is taking so far.
17:56 jnthn I suspect part of it is that we all know it's small and know more people involved = good thing.
17:56 masak I've tried to introduce code reviews. I'm still eagerly waiting for the first code review not written by me. :) expect to have to do a few more code reviews before that happens.
17:57 mberends masak: I'll review Druid when you feel it's ready
17:57 jnthn I think code review happens on a more informal basis sometimes too.
17:58 masak mberends: nice! it'll be ready after it gets SVG.
17:58 jnthn e.g. when somebody feeds something to p6eval or nopastes some code and folks point out "oh btw, you can do it better by doing X"
17:58 jnthn I'm not sure if you count that as code review, but I kinda do.
17:58 masak jnthn: I'm talking about the formal kind. reviewing the code like one reviews a piece of literature.
17:59 jnthn OK.
17:59 masak the informal kind is important too, of course.
17:59 jnthn Yes, I think both have value.
17:59 masak but I mean this: http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/38643
17:59 jnthn I actually in $not-perl6-job get asked to do code reviews now and then too.
18:00 masak yes, same here.
18:00 jnthn It's interesting, though in a lot of what I've seen also sometimes depressing.
18:00 masak I don't doubt it.
18:01 jnthn Particularly when you code review something in version 1, then code review the re-write that was meant to make things better and notice it's an epic security fail.
18:01 masak mberends: you've spurred me to implement SVG in Druid. that'll probably be my project for the evening. :)
18:01 jnthn (Whereas the original had some issues but was generally not so bad in that angle.)
18:01 masak jnthn: ouch. :/
18:01 jnthn Yeah. It's hard to write a...kind...review in that situation.
18:02 jnthn I rather suspect the quality of Perl 6 code floating around is rather higher though. :-)
18:02 jnthn At least, the bits I've seen are often encouraging.
18:03 jnthn But I think that's again a community thing: aesthetics are valued.
18:04 viklund_ Hurray! I can send bugreports!!
18:04 masak viklund_: you mean 'bug reportz' :)
18:04 viklund_ sry
18:04 masak np. :)
18:04 viklund_ Huzzah! I can haz bugz zent!!
18:05 masak much better.
18:05 masak I've only done one review so far, but that code was OK, and mostly well-written.
18:05 masak I have three reviews queued up: PGE, the spectest suite, and STD.pm.
18:07 masak anyway, I should get going.
18:07 masak need to eat supper.
18:07 jnthn Aye, I need dinner...think I'll pop over to the curry place.
18:07 jnthn And order something hot. Try and kill this pesky cold off. :-/
18:07 masak I have home-baked bread. mmm.
18:07 jnthn That requires skill. :-)
18:08 masak actually, no, not much.
18:08 jnthn You have a bread machine or do it all by hand?
18:08 masak by hand.
18:08 jnthn Wow. :-)
18:08 masak stop being impressed! it's like, really easy! :)
18:09 jnthn Yeah yeah ;-)
18:09 masak but actually taking the time to do it is very rewarding.
18:09 jnthn Yes, I can appreciate that. I do like spending time cooking something.
18:09 jnthn It's something different than sitting hacking.
18:10 masak indeed.
18:10 jnthn Anyways, food time...cu
18:10 masak o/
18:13 xuser joined #perl6
18:16 hanekomu joined #perl6
18:23 alester ping masak
18:23 alester RATS
18:35 ruoso joined #perl6
18:35 pugs_svn r27029 | pmichaud++ | Cleanup fudging of .lines and .get.
18:37 viklund joined #perl6
18:37 unitxt joined #perl6
18:39 dalek rakudo: f7b42bc | pmichaud++ | src/setting/IO.pm:
18:39 dalek rakudo: Fix up .get and .lines to handle eof more properly.
18:39 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f7b42bcb074a98916af81aea6bba65e676d2be5b
18:50 pmichaud 17:47 <masak> jnthn: well, far as I recall, only pmichaud and I laughed loudly... :)
18:50 pmichaud what did I laugh about...?
18:51 s1n damn, i always seem to miss masak
18:51 phenny s1n: 05 Jun 10:22Z <masak> tell s1n maybe it might be a better idea to do the Dallas.p6m announcements on perl6-users? p6l is more for language discussion, p6u more for community discussion...
18:51 viklund some joke jnthn by misstake made on npw about m' and s'...
18:51 s1n how do i use phenny to leave a message?
18:51 viklund I wasn't there so I don
18:51 viklund don't know
18:52 pmichaud oh.  My laugh tends to be fairly distinctive (and loud), though.
18:52 s1n it takes work to make pmichaud laugh though :)
18:53 viklund s1n: my guess is that you just say 'tell $name $message'
18:53 viklund tell s1n this is a test ;)
18:53 s1n test
18:53 mberends phenny: tell s1n this is how to leave a message
18:53 phenny mberends: I'll pass that on when s1n is around.
18:53 ascent_ phenny: msg for s1n test
18:54 viklund oh well...
18:54 mberends s1n: hi
18:54 s1n mberends: hi
18:54 phenny s1n: 18:53Z <mberends> tell s1n this is how to leave a message
18:54 s1n ahhh mberends wins the prize :)
18:56 s1n phenny: tell masak the june invite was the last one on p6l (hence the "don't want to pester p6l" note). i set up a ml for just this monger group and will take your advice and use p6u for july.
18:56 phenny s1n: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
18:56 s1n yay
18:56 s1n pmichaud: remember, it starts at 7 :)
18:56 pmichaud oh, I've got it on my calendar
18:57 pmichaud I was late last time because I had to wait for my wife to get home before I could leave.
18:57 s1n just giving you crap :)
18:57 pmichaud just taking it.  :)
18:57 s1n pmichaud: so i was thinking of an idea, wanted your take on this
18:57 kane_ joined #perl6
18:58 s1n every meeting, i want to pick 1 feature of perl6 and have someone explain it and then we can all hack on it and play with it
18:58 pmichaud sounsd great to me
18:58 s1n i liked the whole sub thing from last month
18:58 s1n do you have any ideas for this month?
18:58 pmichaud btw, the method calls are now fixed :-)
18:59 pmichaud $.foo(args)   now works properly
18:59 s1n pmichaud: which method calls? $.method?
18:59 pmichaud yes.
18:59 s1n ahh yeah,  saw that
18:59 pmichaud well, I can always come up with ideas of things to highlight, but in many ways I prefer to have someone else come up with a topic that's interesting to them
19:00 pmichaud especially if there are confusing items, like last month
19:00 s1n well, all of them are interesting to me, just not sure which i know well enough to explain
19:00 pmichaud oh, I'll be glad to explain them :-)
19:00 pmichaud unless the point is to get others to do the explanin
19:00 s1n well, it'd be nice if we could take turns
19:01 pmichaud sure, I'm always glad to give others the spotlight
19:01 pmichaud but if someone has a topic they'd like explained, I'm happy to be the explainer
19:01 s1n pmichaud: if you give me a topic, i'll do my homework :)
19:01 pmichaud I'd ask the list for a topic
19:01 s1n good idea
19:01 pmichaud any topics I'd want to have explained would be likely tough :-)
19:02 s1n nature of the beast
19:02 s1n everything easy has already been done
19:03 * s1n has to go work on cleaning garage
19:03 s1n chores&
19:07 jantore joined #perl6
19:19 xinming_ joined #perl6
19:21 ejs joined #perl6
19:45 pmichaud rakudo:  my $x = * - 5;  say $x(8);
19:46 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«3␤»
19:46 pjcj joined #perl6
19:46 pmichaud rakudo:  my $x = * / 3 + 4;  say $x(15);
19:46 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«9␤»
19:46 pmichaud \o/
19:47 pmichaud rakudo:  my @a = <a b c d e f g>;   say @a[*-5..*-2].perl;
19:47 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«["c", "d", "e", "f"]␤»
19:47 jnthn pmichaud++
19:48 jnthn pmichaud: Is it doing it off syntax now?
19:48 pmichaud no.
19:48 jnthn Or multi-dispatch?
19:48 jnthn OK
19:48 pmichaud multi-dispatch, mainly.
19:48 jnthn I think that one stays as multi though...
19:48 jnthn And it's *.foo that changes.
19:49 xuser left #perl6
19:49 pmichaud rakudo:  say +$*IN.lines;
19:49 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«23␤»
19:50 pmichaud rakudo: my $i = 0;   while defined($*IN.get) { $i++; };   say $i;
19:50 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«23␤»
19:52 pmichaud rakudo:  for lines() { say .substr(1,1); }
19:52 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'lines'␤in Main (/tmp/e5FVf6AxeI:2)␤»
19:52 pmichaud rakudo:  for $*IN.lines { say .substr(1,1); }
19:52 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«a␤a␤a␤e␤o␤i␤i␤Cannot take substr outside string␤␤e␤i␤i␤a␤o␤i␤i␤Cannot take substr outside string␤␤u»
19:52 pmichaud rakudo:  for $*IN.lines { say .substr(0,1); }
19:52 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«L␤L␤L␤H␤V␤v␤v␤␤H␤l␤e␤H␤h␤v␤v␤␤M␤f␤»
19:52 pmichaud rakudo:  for $*IN.lines { say .substr(0,1); }
19:52 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«L␤L␤L␤H␤V␤v␤v␤␤H␤l␤e␤H␤h␤v␤v␤␤M␤f␤»
19:53 pmichaud hmmm.
19:53 pmichaud rakudo:  for $*IN.lines { say .substr(0,1); }
19:53 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«L␤L␤L␤H␤V␤v␤v␤␤H␤l␤e␤H␤h␤v␤v␤␤M␤f␤a␤E␤V␤v␤v␤»
19:53 pmichaud ah, okay.
19:53 jnthn Hmm, weren't all those 3 the same?
19:53 pmichaud alarm is still impacting us.
19:53 jnthn Ah
19:53 pmichaud p6eval has a short alarm timeout
19:54 jnthn .oO( false alarm )
19:54 nihiliad joined #perl6
19:54 pmichaud I haven't figured out exactly why rakudo runs into the alarm, though.  On my system those all run regularly inside of 2 sec.
19:54 pmichaud and the alarm is supposedly set at 5 (which really means between 4 and 5)
19:55 jnthn Aye, odd. There was a suggestion it was due to cron jobs that suck up a lot of resources, but I wasn't 100% convinced on that.
20:03 kidd_ can anyone explain what does the "my $x = * - 5; say $x(8)" does?  pointing me to a synopsis is ok too :)
20:07 DanielC How do you make a regex that matches either a word character or a dot? I tried using [ \w \. ] but that doesn't match either :-(
20:10 DanielC [ \w || \. ] seems to work, but I don't know why || is necessary. What else could [ \w \. ] possibly mean?
20:11 skids_ Word then a dot
20:12 skids_ || is like perl5 |
20:12 DanielC But you would get the same with just plain  \w \.  So the [  ] don't seem to add anything.
20:12 skids_ oh sorry.  I was dropping the [
20:12 DanielC Actually... It looks like the backslash is not necessary inside [  ]
20:12 pmichaud it is.
20:13 DanielC :(
20:13 DanielC ah, of course... cause . along matches anything.
20:13 pmichaud the [ ... ] are for grouping.  You're correct that as written, there's not much difference between   [ \w \. ]   and just   \w \.
20:13 DanielC Ok.
20:13 pmichaud but there's a big difference between     [ \w \. ]+  and   \w \. +
20:13 * skids_ wishes for /< foo bar phnord >/
20:13 pmichaud skids:  I have a patch for that already -- just need to test and apply it.
20:14 DanielC Ok, thanks for the help.
20:14 skids_ pmichaud++ :-)
20:14 pmichaud actually, the patch was made during npw -- I just haven't made the time to review it.  pmichaud--
20:15 skids_ Is there one for abbr<*viations> too ?
20:15 pmichaud no
20:15 nbrown joined #perl6
20:15 pmichaud I didn't even realize that's a valid syntax
20:15 skids_ I might have it slightly wrong.  But came across it when trying to write a cisco ios config parser.
20:16 pmichaud file a test + ticket for it :-)
20:16 pmichaud anyway, I have to run for a while -- bbl
20:16 skids_ I may.
20:16 skids_ cya
20:18 eternaleye joined #perl6
20:18 jnthn kidd_: * - 5 creates a closure, like { $_ - 5 }
20:19 jnthn kidd_: It can be useful in a map.
20:19 pmichaud what's new is that this also works:
20:19 jnthn rakudo: my @in = 1,2,3; say @in.map(* - 5)
20:19 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«-4-3-2␤»
20:20 pmichaud rakudo:  my $x = * / 2 + 1;   say $x(10)
20:20 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«6␤»
20:20 jnthn Neato.
20:20 pmichaud as well as
20:20 pmichaud rakudo:  my $x = * / 2 + 4 / *;   say $x(10)
20:20 jnthn It looks like unreverse polish notation though. ;-)
20:20 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«5.4␤»
20:21 pmichaud okay, definitely gone now
20:21 pmichaud bbl
20:24 kidd_ ah great. thanks
20:37 kidd_ so it's a bit like ref to a sub. like my $fun = sub { (shift) * 3 }; $fun->(4) in perl5. * being the first arg.
20:37 kidd_ I see it can only get one arg
20:38 kidd_ rakudo: my $fun = ***3 +  *; say $fun(10 , 9);
20:38 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed (2) - 1 params expected␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3225)␤»
20:38 kidd_ rakudo: my $fun = ***3 +  *; say $fun(10);
20:38 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«1010␤»
20:38 kidd_ :)
20:41 pochi rakudo: my $x = * + *; say $x(5)
20:41 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«10␤»
20:41 pochi rakudo: my $x = * * *; say $x(5)
20:41 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«25␤»
20:42 pochi rakudo: my $x = * * * * * * *; say $x(2)
20:42 p6eval rakudo f7b42b: OUTPUT«16␤»
20:44 jnthn !!
20:45 pochi good for golfing :)
20:46 dalek rakudo: 5f70a68 | (Martin Berends)++ | src/setting/Temporal.pm:
20:46 dalek rakudo: [Temporal.pm] add Temporal::TimeZone::Observance to manage timezone
20:46 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5f70a6862f5066f62169da2d04a5088a16494ce3
20:47 jnthn Not bad for obfuscating either.
20:48 pugs_svn r27030 | mberends++ | [Temporal.t] test DateTime stringify and Temporal::TimeZone::Observance
20:51 cspencer joined #perl6
20:53 pochi uhu ...
20:53 pochi rakudo: my $x = *******; say $x(2);
20:53 p6eval rakudo 5f70a6: OUTPUT«16␤»
20:53 pochi rakudo: my $x = *******; say $x(3);
20:53 p6eval rakudo 5f70a6: OUTPUT«7625597484987␤»
21:01 pochi nm
21:42 ruoso http://developers.slashdot.org/story/09/06/07/184205/New-Languages-vs-Old-For-Parallel-Programming?from=rss
21:43 ruoso ^ that is a good reason for having no imperative barriers ;)
21:46 jan joined #perl6
21:47 mberends Microsoft appears to be bolting parallel routines on to .NET 4.0 http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/ParExtSamples
21:48 jnthn mberends: Yeah, expect I'll be looking at that in the not too distant future, for my .NET clients.
21:48 * jnthn tries to keep up on the .NET world a bit too
21:51 * ruoso holds his "no imperative barriers" banner a bit higher
21:51 jnthn ruoso: I'll read that when my branes are in a better state. :-)
21:53 lichtkind mberends: ping
21:53 eternaleye_ joined #perl6
21:53 ruoso btw... the last time TimToady spoke about it, it seems that the only imperative barrier is the "void context"...
21:54 ruoso it means that if you call a sub that would return a lazy object in void context, it will be consumed immediatly
21:54 ruoso the same applies for any lazy construct, like for or map
21:54 mberends lichtkind: pong
21:55 lichtkind mberends: what you are doing now?
21:55 * ruoso later &
21:55 jnthn mberends: Looks like thye've at least partly gone down the lock free data structures route. That's cool.
21:56 mberends lichtkind: planning more tests for Temporal routines
21:56 lichtkind mberends: so you are also helping moritz_
21:57 mberends lichtkind: yes, tests are vital for this project
21:57 lichtkind mberends: i seen that current syn and tests are more interwoven know good for devs buts also its now time that beginner get something more readable :)
22:01 mberends lichtkind: true. the Synopses are too technical for beginners. Most references are too advanced for beginners as well. Several people are creating new beginner tutorials, I'm sure there will be more to come. It would help to unify them, avoid splintering at this early stage.
22:01 lichtkind mberends: i know 3 attempts all died already
22:01 lichtkind mberends: so we better get ours translated in time :)
22:02 mberends lichtkind: that's a great pity :(
22:03 lichtkind mberends: don't worry im german will fight to the bitter end
22:05 mberends lichtkind: part of it may be the scattered sites and repositories with obscure addresses. Finding the right sites to carry the links is important. Perseverance++
22:05 lichtkind mberends: yes the wiki is big enough
22:11 hercynium joined #perl6
22:17 lichtkind mberends: did you read the intro why i choose this name?
22:17 viklund rakudo: my $x = ***; say $x(2);
22:17 p6eval rakudo 5f70a6: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "**; say $x"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
22:17 viklund rakudo: my $x = *******; say $x(2);
22:17 p6eval rakudo 5f70a6: OUTPUT«16␤»
22:17 viklund rakudo: my $x = *****; say $x(2);
22:17 p6eval rakudo 5f70a6: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "*; say $x("␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
22:17 viklund hmm
22:22 mberends lichtkind: the Emerald Tablets are new to me, but the name makes sense. Within the pages, they are called Tables instead of Tablets, it did seem strange.
22:22 lichtkind mberends: yes i rename that already everyway i see it
22:23 lichtkind mberends: most imporantly: "They are also written in a way, that they can be read and understood in a helpful manner again and again, on various levels of consciousness. So I try to do with these docs."
22:27 mberends lichtkind: your philosophy aligns perfectly with u4x as well. The magic is knowing what the reader wants to know all the way along. I've learned some of that by teaching Perl 5 so far, looking forward to teaching Perl 6.
22:29 cspencer joined #perl6
22:33 payload joined #perl6
22:33 sri_kraih joined #perl6
22:34 lichtkind mberends: please take a look at http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_table_intro
22:34 lichtkind mberends: so we can at least freeze that as stable :)
22:35 * mberends presses F5
22:35 meppl joined #perl6
22:36 mberends :) requirements: 1. a brain
22:38 mberends lichtkind: I'll gently massage some english hacking
22:39 lichtkind mberends: i dunno
22:39 lichtkind mberends: mean dont understand
22:39 mberends I'll do just a few minor english fixes
22:40 lichtkind great
22:40 mberends hacking referred to the audreyt quote
22:41 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
22:41 lichtkind that i understood :)
22:41 lichtkind i love the phrase
22:42 mberends english is a very hacked language anyway. it's as elegant as the x86 instruction set.
22:43 lichtkind mberends: including SSE I & II ? :)
22:43 mberends that might be rap and lolspeak :)
22:45 lichtkind yes linguist said that every indian language was much more expressive than english :)
22:45 lichtkind meaning native americans
22:47 mberends sure. and many members of #perl6 have strong linguist interests
22:48 jnthn English does quite well at making things up out of building blocks rather than relying so heavily on doing conjugation and declension through inflectional morphology.
22:48 lichtkind mberends: the mismatch maybe comes also from the fact that table and tablet translate to the same german word
22:49 jnthn I think that probably aids it in being a language that's easy to communicate in at a basic level.
22:52 mberends english is very good for n00bs. there's a workable Simple English vocab of less than 1000 words iirc.
22:52 jnthn That doesn't surprise me at all.
22:53 jnthn English bites once you get deeper into it though.
22:53 jnthn I've been trying to explain various things to people about it of late and realized more and more how much I take for granted that actually has some quite complex gramatical underpinnings.
22:56 mberends "complex underpinnings" eqv "jumping through hoops" ;)
22:57 lichtkind mberends: can i insert the new nav into intro now ?
22:57 mberends lichtkind: not just yet, completing an edit...
22:59 mberends saved :)
23:01 mberends lichtkind: to attract contributions from more contributors, all mention of yourself will have to go. No "I", "me" or even "we". Just Perl, and maybe "you" the reader.
23:02 jnthn mberends: Indeed. I'd have more sympathy for people learning English, apart from I'm currently learning Slovak, which I suspect is just as complex.
23:02 mberends It was obviously pitched differently when this was a series in $foo magazine.
23:02 jferrero joined #perl6
23:02 jnthn mberends: And probably at least as complex to begin with.
23:03 jnthn It's a bit like Perl 5. Beautiful, a lot of language features, and lots of special cases.
23:03 jnthn ;-)
23:03 lichtkind mberends: yes it written some .. ago
23:04 mberends jnthn: I grok Croatian at grassroots level, can imagine your state of mind ;-)
23:04 justatheory joined #perl6
23:05 pmichaud back
23:05 lichtkind mberends: nono tablets werent for foo magazine
23:05 lichtkind mberends: there are even older than that :)
23:06 lichtkind feel free to change it mildly :)
23:06 Whiteknight joined #perl6
23:07 mberends lichtkind: that's what massage was intended to convey
23:08 Grrrr joined #perl6
23:09 mberends lichtkind: let me do Perl Delta Table next, but I'm sneaking off for a quick snooze before you-know-who notices :)
23:10 lichtkind mberends: did you see i already pasted delta :)
23:11 mberends yes, it needs translation
23:12 lichtkind yes i just translated heads
23:12 lichtkind mberends: 1 sec
23:13 lichtkind mberends: slightly improved index, so you know now whats in the chapters, now GO GO gO :)
23:13 lichtkind mberends: i will do links in that time
23:14 lichtkind mberends: intro is now done?
23:14 mberends finished intro. starting to edit Delta
23:15 lichtkind mberends: how you like the graham quote?
23:16 mberends good, bad, funny, you can take it multiple ways
23:18 lichtkind mberends: he has a very human and fair standpoint to perl, which is surprise given hes a lisp zealot
23:19 lichtkind mberends: did you see that appendix B is now enhanced and almost entirely english
23:21 mberends yes :) those tables are all very useful. often better than an alphabetically sorted list such as appendix A, because similar things are grouped.
23:24 lichtkind mberends: still meditating if special var have there right place in there
23:25 mberends lichtkind: it should be the right place. it is where a beginner might search for it.
23:26 lichtkind mberends: good, have you the delta already open?
23:26 mberends yes, but can save soon...
23:27 mberends saved
23:27 lichtkind i just made one minor adjustment on nav bar, you can do it too, just ** around the D:Delta so it get always highlighted whats current
23:29 lichtkind mberends: make it around the whole like  *"E:Links"[Perl Links Table]*
23:30 mberends good idea. shall I start editing again now?
23:32 kate21de1 joined #perl6
23:34 lichtkind mberends: opps i hurry
23:35 lichtkind mberends: ready
23:35 lichtkind mberends: links page now also operable first 2 blocks translated
23:36 mberends drat. Temporal.t test 7 fails sometimes, as the script warns. But it's better to test...
23:38 mberends a tolerance of 1 second will probably always work for "now"
23:38 mberends lichtkind: editing Delta again
23:39 lichtkind mberends: good
23:48 lichtkind mberends: you could then also finish links i will tomorrow look then into the foo tutorial that we at least get part 1,  i have enough for tonight :)
23:49 mberends lichtkind: ok, it's late for me too :)
23:50 lichtkind mberends: but its great to see progress :)
23:54 lichtkind mberends: found op thats was missing in index a :)
23:54 lichtkind good night
23:54 mberends night

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo