Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-06-14

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 sjohnson he might have saved about 25 bucks
00:00 sjohnson oops, i mean i got the 3rd edition
00:00 DanielC The book is $33 at amazon
00:00 sjohnson yeah that is very affordable
00:00 DanielC I think it is.
00:00 sjohnson my boss works at a bookstore, so i highly doubt he'll order from amazon
00:00 sjohnson but i would have
00:01 sjohnson i bought my book on Ruby from amazon for really cheap, but the style of writing is impossible
00:01 sjohnson i eventually had to put it down as i found David Flanagan's writing style extremely frustrating
00:01 sjohnson as opposed to the camel book
00:02 sjohnson and then i found out about Perl 6
00:02 sjohnson and "threw in the towel" with Ruby
00:02 DanielC Ruby is a very nice language, and I think it's good to learn multiple languages. Later on, you should consider giving Ruby another try.
00:03 DanielC Don't let a bad book put you off from a good language.
00:03 sjohnson k cool
00:03 sjohnson that's good advice
00:04 DanielC http://www.math.umd.edu/~dcarrera/ruby/0.3/
00:04 DanielC This is something I wrote many years ago. It's about an older version of Ruby.
00:04 sjohnson thanks
00:04 sjohnson 1.8?
00:04 DanielC I don't have access to this website anymore (I've long lost my password and I am no longer at U of Maryland).
00:05 DanielC I don't understand why the school never deleted my account.
00:05 TimToady rakudo: say '⚀⚀' .. '⚅⚅'
00:06 sjohnson probably cause kids complained that the page was too useful
00:06 p6eval rakudo 77f9d7: OUTPUT«⚀⚀⚀⚁⚀⚂⚀⚃⚀⚄⚀⚅⚁⚀⚁⚁⚁⚂⚁⚃⚁⚄⚁⚅⚂⚀⚂⚁⚂⚂⚂⚃⚂⚄⚂⚅⚃⚀⚃⚁⚃⚂⚃⚃⚃⚄⚃⚅⚄⚀⚄⚁⚄⚂⚄⚃⚄⚄⚄⚅⚅⚀⚅⚁⚅⚂⚅⚃⚅⚄⚅⚅␤»
00:07 TimToady hmm, hangs in my rakudo
00:10 StephenPollei grep Integr *pod --> S02-bits.pod:such as C<Callable>, C<Failure>, and C<Integral>. .. Integral is only mentioned once but never really explained, is it just Int ??
00:10 DanielC Hangs my Rakudo too.
00:16 TimToady it's a utf8-from-terminal issue
00:16 DanielC joined #perl6
00:16 TimToady works in a file
00:16 * DanielC 's X11 doesn't seem to get along with Compiz
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00:24 DanielC Oh... I've seen Rakudo do weird things when reading Unicode from the terminal.
00:24 DanielC That must be what's happening here.
00:25 DanielC I filed a bug report, lets see...
00:26 DanielC http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=66312
00:30 pugs_svn r27079 | stephenpollei++ | added more types like AnyChar Bool Grapheme
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01:41 pugs_svn r27080 | lwall++ | [CORE] couple more missing types
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07:17 eternaleye rakudo: say "⚁".name
07:17 p6eval rakudo 77f9d7: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤»
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09:53 masak greetings, backtracking-camels.
09:55 masak rakudo: say False.name
09:55 p6eval rakudo 77f9d7:  ( no output )
09:55 masak no output?
09:55 masak perl6: say False.name
09:55 p6eval rakudo 77f9d7: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class ''␤»
09:55 p6eval ..elf 27080: OUTPUT«Can't locate object method "name" via package "False" (perhaps you forgot to load "False"?) at (eval 123) line 3.␤ at ./elf_h line 5881␤»
09:55 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Bool: "&name"␤    at /tmp/7y9Yq5rFh2 line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤»
09:55 masak rakudo: say False.name
09:56 p6eval rakudo 77f9d7: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class ''␤»
09:56 * masak submits rakudobug
09:56 pmurias masak: hi
09:56 masak pmurias: hello.
09:56 masak I came here mainly because I backlogged over DanielC's git adventures. came to tell him that his changes aren't really lost even after a hard reset.
09:57 masak but he's not here, so...
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09:59 pmurias masak: how can i restore changes lost after a hard reset (not counting retyping them)?
10:00 * pmurias also learnt what the --hard option does the hard way
10:00 masak pmurias: I don't really know. I just know that the commit still exists until the next GC run.
10:00 masak if you know the SHA1 hash of the commit, it's easy.
10:00 masak just cherry-pick it back in.
10:01 masak if not, hunting through the objects in .git/ would be a possibly time-consuming last resort...
10:01 masak but I bet there's a better way.
10:01 * masak heads over to #git to ask
10:10 masak ah! found the answer myself! :)
10:10 masak git-reflog.
10:11 masak very nice subcommand, I really should use it more.
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10:18 masak by the way, I'm glad C<rotate> went from being in-place to returning a new array. my initial reaction on the first spec addition was that it should. :)
10:19 masak but the examples at S32/Containers:498 and :502 haven't been changed to match the new semantics.
10:22 masak ok, going offline again. I'm hoping to get some significant Hitomi work done offline today.
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10:23 payload yee, hitomi work ftw. need to set up a perl 6 blog till end of month
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10:43 moritz_ rakudo: say 'a'..'z' Z 1, 2, 3
10:43 p6eval rakudo 77f9d7: OUTPUT«a1b2c3␤»
10:43 moritz_ rakudo: say 'a'..'c' Z 1, 2, 3
10:43 p6eval rakudo 77f9d7: OUTPUT«a1b2c3␤»
10:43 moritz_ rakudo: say ('a'..'c' Z 1, 2, 3).join(',')
10:43 p6eval rakudo 77f9d7: OUTPUT«a,1,b,2,c,3␤»
10:45 moritz_ does t/spec/S32-container/zip.t 11-12 fails for anybody else?
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10:55 DanielC moin
11:00 DanielC @seen mberends
11:00 lambdabot mberends is in #perl6. I last heard mberends speak 22h 41m 26s ago.
11:00 DanielC :-(
11:00 DanielC @seen masak
11:00 lambdabot I saw masak leaving #perl6 37m 30s ago, and .
11:00 DanielC masak: ping?
11:09 M_o_C DanielC: [12:22:33] <masak> ok, going offline again. I'm hoping to get some significant Hitomi work done offline today.
11:09 DanielC thanks
11:09 M_o_C np
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11:34 mberends @seen DanielC
11:34 lambdabot DanielC is in #perl6. I last heard DanielC speak 24m 33s ago.
11:34 DanielC o/
11:34 mberends o/
11:34 DanielC mberends!
11:34 DanielC Good to see you.
11:34 DanielC How do you like JSON?
11:35 mberends likewise, you're roaring through the file formats!
11:35 DanielC I'm making progress, though not always through  direct path.
11:36 DanielC I assume you've seen my latest changes?
11:40 mberends yes! like it! JSON is nice. it would be interesting to survey the current "popularity" of the various formats in terms of how often they are currently used in Rakudo, Parrot and Pugs. I think we may end up with serialize() and deserialize() functions that takes a subroutine reference to select an emitter/parser option.
11:41 mberends yeah, it's not always a direct path ;)
11:41 DanielC I like JSON. The only reason I didn't go for it earlier is that I didn't want to write a parser for it. But viklund mentioned that Parrot already has a JSON <-> Parrot parser.
11:43 DanielC module-meta.pir has most of the json functions we need. The only thing I haven't figured out is how we are going to get the byte offset "Foo::Bar" inside the json file.
11:44 DanielC But we can already read a json subset from a file, parse it, and convert back to json.
11:45 mberends It would be a great help if the index that we build (in a parrot hash for example) contains not only the offset in the metadata file, but also the length in bytes. That way we could separate the file IO from the parsing/emitting, they become string ops.
11:46 mberends in a test case, could you try to build a full Parrot data structure with all the fields that we are proposing, and verify the conversions to and from?
11:47 DanielC I have done that but visually. I wasn't sure how to write a test for that.
11:47 DanielC The JSON output is not going to come in any predictable order.
11:48 mberends order is np. removals are draining all my tuits, but in some pseudo-pir:
11:49 DanielC So I wasn't sure how to check that two json strings are equivalent, or that two parrot objects are equivalent.
11:49 mberends the short answer: is_deeply
11:56 mberends two strings, just: is( have, want, "test description" )
11:56 DanielC Right. That's now what I did?
11:58 mberends two data structures: is_deeply( have, want, 'deep structure comparison' )  according to Synopsis of parrot/runtime/parrot/library/Test/More.pir
11:58 DanielC ah
11:59 DanielC So you can do is_deeply( $P0, $P1, "test deep structures")  ?
11:59 mberends yes. if it follows the Perl 5 standard, it should recurse the nested contents, comparing all.
11:59 DanielC cool
12:00 DanielC seems to work
12:01 mberends extra cool. going afk for lunch, bbiab &
12:01 DanielC k
13:00 mberends DanielC: pushed a small addition to design-notes.html
13:01 DanielC ok
13:01 DanielC I am hunting a really weird Parrot bug.
13:01 DanielC http://pastebin.com/m428594f4
13:01 DanielC Go to #parrot to join the fun.
13:04 mberends no tuits for a few days - but it's normal for hash keys to switch order
13:06 DanielC mberends: You don't understand, is_deeply is not comparing $P0["a"] with $P1["a"]
13:07 DanielC The Parrot guys just figured out that is_deeply doesn't support hashes.
13:08 mberends gah, that's a pity. The original is_deeply in Perl 5 took a lot of debugging as well for corner cases.
13:08 DanielC We'll have to forget about using is_deeply for the time being.
13:08 mberends :(
13:08 DanielC The Parrot guys said they'd file a ticket.
13:09 DanielC I mean, "hashes" are not much of a corner case. They are a very important data structure.
13:09 mberends they're probably glad you discovered the bug :)
13:09 DanielC :)
13:12 DanielC Could have been worse... It could have been a bug in json.
13:12 DanielC Fortunately, json seems to work well.
13:13 mberends ok, then we need to substitute many string comparisons for the single is_deeply(). In Perl we could AND them together in a single ok() test, but in PIR we each member of the data structure must be tested separately.
13:13 mberends s/PIR we/PIR/
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13:17 DanielC I think I know how we can get the byte offset and length of the json data.
13:17 DanielC Get the json string for each group of modules separately.
13:17 DanielC So we can compute the length of each separately.
13:18 DanielC Then just catenate them together. Prepend { "version": "0.1", "datafile": "modules.data", "groups": [   ... and append ] } at the end.
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13:18 DanielC Then we can just compute the offsets.
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13:18 mberends sounds good. string processing is much faster than file IO.
13:18 DanielC Oh, and put commas in between... but you get the idea.
13:18 mberends yes
13:19 DanielC This means that every time we install a new module we have to rewrite the entire metadata and the entire index.
13:20 DanielC But I figure that's ok. People install modules infrequently.
13:20 mberends yes, it's hard to avoid that without ugly file formats
13:20 mberends it's definitely ok
13:20 DanielC Expensive writes + fast reads = good compromise
13:21 DanielC Ok, I'll be afk for a while.
13:21 DanielC see ya
13:21 DanielC afk &
13:21 mberends :)
13:26 avar w 3
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13:41 Infinoid DanielC et al: http://nopaste.snit.ch/16909 should fix is_deeply for hashes
13:47 mberends Infinoid: thanks, will try with DanielC later :)
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14:01 Infinoid (corner cases) I'd love additional eyeballs on that sort of thing.  I'm pretty sure that it won't successfully compare values which are instances of the Undef class, for example
14:03 Infinoid And if Undef is what you get if you do a lookup on a hash which doesn't contain the key you provide, the simple key-count check is insufficient and it will also need a followup check to make sure hash2 doesn't contain anything missing from hash1
14:03 Infinoid My brain hurts from generating a sentence that long, with grammar that bad.  I'm gonna go sit in the corner now.
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14:30 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
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14:35 pmichaud Actually, looking up non-existent keys in hashes normally returns NULL (in Parrot)
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15:27 perl7 hi from the future
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15:59 perl7 any perl6 man here?¿
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16:04 * skids_ wonders if perl7 will be a graphical computing language.  (Screw unicode!  go for bitmaps!)
16:05 perl7 I'm ready ... but I need to spend time before perl6 runs
16:06 lichtkind perl7: do you have an project called perl 7?
16:07 perl7 yes, the next version of perl
16:07 skids_ .o0(maybe we should write perl6 in perl7)
16:08 perl7 what was the first: egg or hen?
16:09 skids_ The egg, of course.
16:09 skids_ (because you did not specify the species of the egg)
16:11 perl7 will be perl6 released this year?
16:11 skids_ Depends, how much of it do you need to work?
16:11 perl7 I think in v 1.0
16:12 skids_ Version numbers are such an arbitrary thing.
16:13 perl7 so this year.... no
16:13 skids_ didn't say that.  But I wouldn't know.
16:15 perl7 on Chrismast?
16:15 Sark23 why need perl 6 long to finish? the start of perl 6 was a long time ago but now isn't finish, why?
16:17 skids_ quality takes time.
16:17 Sark23 hm, how many people are developer on rakudo?
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16:19 skids_ Less than we would like, but a lot more than there were.
16:20 skids_ note rakudo and parrot are conjoined projects presently, so it's a combined effort of the two projects.
16:20 skids_ You can see the contribution levels by taking a git log of rakudo and an svn log of parrot.
16:21 skids_ (and there's a graph somewhere)
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16:24 skids_ http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/graphs/impact
16:24 skids_ wierd -- from the mousovers that looks like it is parrot's impact graph, not rakudo.
16:25 skids_ e.g. where's jnthn?
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16:25 skids_ OIC, scroll right
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16:43 lollan hi guys, I usally use perl 5, even tough I like it I'd like to use perl 6, I know it's not completly over but I was wondering if I could talk with some people who use it in here. Does somebody have 5 minutes ?
16:43 skids_ yep, fire away
16:46 lollan thanks skids_ first (I know it sounds silly) is it stable enough for me to write code ?
16:46 DanielC I wouldn't use it in "production" but you can certainly use it for non-critical applications.
16:46 skids_ There are sections of the spec that are implemented and stable.  There are other places where there is flux.  It depends on what you want to do.
16:47 skids_ Like, what are some of the applications you would target?
16:47 DanielC lollan: There is already a wiki and a board game written in Perl 6.
16:47 lollan ok ok
16:48 lollan Well skids_ I wanted to use perl6 as a script engine for some game I'm coding
16:48 DanielC It's slow right now, so you can't use it for anything performance critical.
16:49 skids_ lollan: that would involve a lot of concurrency?
16:49 lollan skids_, It can but I don't plan to, why is it a problem ?
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16:50 skids_ Concurrency other than coroutines is really not specced yet, and even coroutines are not implemented yet.
16:50 lollan Ok the slow thing will be a problem for me. I see that there are many implementation of perl6, I mean the specification is the same but I see several engine to run it like pugs, parrot or SMOP.
16:50 lollan skids_, so basically I should not go into parrallel impletation
16:51 skids_ Yes, right now what's working best is the class system.
16:51 skids_ So projects that use complex classes and typing will be the best fit.
16:51 lollan about the many implementation of perl6, what is that ? and which one does people prefer these days ?
16:52 lollan skids_, from what you say it seems like it is still in its early days
16:52 lollan the class system is one of the fundamental of any languages no ?
16:52 skids_ rakudo is the leader, SMOP is actively developed.  Elf is at a transition phase so I don't know quite what's up with it.  Pugs is old and not developed much anymore.
16:52 lollan DanielC, what do you use perl6 for ?
16:53 lollan Ok, it's a bit sad for pugs I do find haskell efficient ^^. What's Elf ?
16:53 DanielC lollan: I only use Perl 6 to test Perl 6.
16:53 skids_ Yes, the class system is very fundamental.  Perl6's is really extremely complex/powerful, though, so even just having that working is a major thing.
16:53 lollan skids_, ok
16:54 DanielC lollan: But I am writing very non-trivial programs with Perl 6.
16:54 skids_ parsers are another good use, since the regexp stuff works OK.
16:54 lollan DanielC, ok
16:54 DanielC parsers work great.
16:54 DanielC The Perl 6 grammar system is really cool.
16:55 lollan what do you mean by grammar system ?
16:55 skids_ regexps are fully classed now.
16:55 DanielC The Perl 5 regexes have been extended. Now you can write entire grammars.
16:56 DanielC The grammar for Perl 6 is itself written in Perl 6.
16:56 lollan DanielC, that sounds like something efficient
16:56 DanielC Rakudo uses Perl 6 grammars to parse Perl 6. That should give you an idea of how powerful it is.
16:56 lollan so the core of perl6 is not in C anymore ?
16:56 DanielC nope!
16:56 DanielC self-hosting
16:56 DanielC http://daniel.carrera.bz/2009/06/rpn-calculator-in-perl-6/
16:57 DanielC That post is an introduction to Perl 6 grammar.
16:57 lollan cheers DanielC
16:57 DanielC You get to build a cool RPN calculator with Perl 6.
16:57 skids_ well, there's some C, for basic data structures.
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16:58 DanielC very little I think.
16:58 lollan yes for data structure I don't think it's completly avoidable
16:58 lollan Rakudo is another perl6 implementation ?
16:58 DanielC yes
16:58 DanielC It is probably the most advanced one.
16:58 DanielC It is built on Parrot.
16:58 lollan ok why so many implementation of perl6 ?
16:58 DanielC Parrot + Perl 6
16:58 clug Perl6 should have a way to change request variables into arrays like php does with $_GET and $_POST
16:59 lollan clug, the old CGI system is dead then ? (not a bad news)
16:59 DanielC lollan: You see, Perl 6 is a specification now, just like C and C++. There are many C compilers right? Anyone who wants can write a Perl 6 compiler. As long as they pass the test suite, it can be called Perl 6.
16:59 skids_ http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/src/perl6/STD.pm <-- the entire perl6 grammar in perl6, a.k.a. Larry's playground
17:00 lollan DanielC, I didn't see that like that, it's pretty efficient (and cool) !
17:00 DanielC :-)
17:01 clug ooh write a perl compiler in php
17:01 clug and compile the perl into php code ahahahaha
17:01 lollan :-) that means as well that lexers with perl6 must be pretty cool
17:01 lollan clug, a compiler in php would be quite slow no ?
17:02 clug it would be awesome
17:02 lollan ^^
17:02 clug Does perl have goto?
17:02 DanielC clug: I hope not.
17:02 skids_ of course.
17:02 clug http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/goto.html
17:02 clug hmm python has a better implementation
17:03 clug they also implement comefrom
17:03 lollan I don't use goto with perl5 so I wouldn't know, there are to many ways to toy with reference anyway
17:03 skids_ But you should rarely need it given the versatility of the control structures.
17:03 lollan clug, I didn't know that
17:03 DanielC Unless you are writing assembly, there is no place for a goto in a program.
17:03 lollan the comefrom stuff
17:04 clug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COMEFROM
17:04 clug what about comefrom?
17:04 lollan DanielC, we can agree on that
17:04 lollan club: if you're code is structured enough why would you need a comefrom
17:04 skids_ I beg to differ.  goto in C is a huge benefit to code readability and maintainability.
17:04 lollan ?
17:04 clug yeah, I write all my loops using goto
17:04 lollan I don't completly agree with C
17:05 DanielC clug: You are kidding, right?
17:05 clug yes
17:05 lollan but it's true that sometimes it is useful goto in C, when I was coding C for processor stuff, goto was often used instead of switch and stuff
17:05 DanielC k
17:05 skids_ lollan: you just have to know when to use it, and when not to.
17:05 lollan skids_, yep
17:05 lollan clug, you killed me
17:05 lollan lmao
17:06 skids_ e.g. it's best used for undoing stuff in failure conditions.
17:06 lollan perl6 looks alright for me I just wonder which implementation would be complete first
17:07 skids_ rakudo is the safest bet IMO.  But keep an eye on what SMOP is up to.
17:07 lollan SMOP idea looks good, I didn't dig into it yet but it really looks like some kind of well tought experimentation
17:08 lollan I didn't know rakudo before now to be honest
17:08 lollan I knew of parrot because of all the langugages implemented with it
17:08 skids_ rakudo: "pleased to meet you, lollan".say
17:08 p6eval rakudo 77f9d7: OUTPUT«pleased to meet you, lollan␤»
17:12 lollan lol
17:13 lollan These days it looks like it's fashion and reliable to implement languages with a VM or a spec.
17:13 skids_ but not both? :-)
17:13 lollan lol
17:13 lollan I was looking at some languges earlier I found stuff like Clojure, Jruby and stuff like that
17:14 lollan I don't understand the thing with those one though but perl6 rox
17:14 lollan I'll stay on perl and haskell this year too
17:14 lollan thanks guys ^^
17:14 skids_ coded-in-a-single-sitting labguages?
17:15 lollan no I know a bunch of them but I don't code in many
17:15 lollan it's manly C++, Java , Haskell, perl5  and lua from time to time
17:15 lollan even tough I know python I do my best not to use it lol
17:16 lollan same with C#
17:16 lollan I just felt last week that perl5 did its time
17:16 skids_ I keep managing to find better things to do with my time than learn python, though it is on the TODO list somewhere down there.
17:16 lollan skids_, well I should have done like you
17:16 lollan lol
17:17 skids_ Damn, now I don't have the excuse of deciding whether to learn that or ruby first anymore :-)
17:17 lollan but I heard that django was "cool" so I gave it a go to finally come back on perl and php
17:17 lollan skids_, If I were you I'd learn python not ruby
17:18 lollan I found ruby people and ruby language a bit off
17:18 lollan it's weird to say but there's too much freedom in that
17:18 lollan it's like there's no structure
17:19 skids_ I've done some php, ergo I know php stands for "prefer to have perl"
17:21 lollan come on skids_ php is not that bad. to be honest with you if it wasn't for catalyst I would still be doing some php today (I speak of php from version 4 before that It's like you said)
17:21 skids_ It's OK, if you don't have perl.  Certainly much preferable to bash.
17:22 lollan lol you know speaking of bash I heard that some dude are pretty into it making crazy huge stuff with it
17:22 skids_ But I came in already knowing perl, so it was like -- wow, nothing here impresses me at all.
17:22 lollan skids_, all those implementation will they have a standard lib with them ?
17:22 skids_ You mean, for embedding?
17:23 lollan skids_, php is not impressive it's just useful, yeah for embedding even with mod_perl embedding with php is nice
17:23 lollan I'm like you I prefer perl especially with CPAN but php is not bad
17:24 skids_ I'm not sure if there's a formal Perl6 implementation-netural spec for embedding yet.
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17:24 skids_ Certainly, Parrot intends to allow embed of just aboyut anything that runs on it.
17:25 lollan yep soon chossing a language would be useless with parrot
17:25 skids_ I would actually like to see bash implemented on Parrot, but only because then we could make a busybox that comes with a bunch of languages preinstalled.
17:26 lollan the more the better as long as the implementation is well done I don't see the problem
17:28 lollan skids_, are you involve into the imp. of perl6 ?
17:28 lollan I mean one of them ?
17:29 skids_ I'm too frazzled to actually string together a coherent commit.  I do peck at things though.
17:30 skids_ And keep track, to the extent I have time to.
17:34 lollan ok ok anyway you and DanielC  just convert someone to perl6, I have a look around and toy with some imp. ; cheers guys
17:34 skids_ /etc/init.d/ <-- people who like to write crazy long things in bash :-)
17:35 skids_ best of luck, drop by with questions, of course
17:36 lollan lol I had a look at that some while back especially the networking script
17:37 lollan I always wondered why do linux bother with stuff like bash when there are so many scrypt languages which are more understandable ?
17:38 skids_ It's cowardice.  Nobody wants to declare an official language for their distro due to language wars.  Bash wins by default.  (luckily the csh/ksh/bash wars seem mostly over)
17:39 lollan lol ok ok
17:40 lollan I'll have to run, I was at work (yes working saturday sucks but it's for my own self so it's cool)
17:40 lollan thanks again skids_
17:40 lollan see you around
17:40 skids_ np anytime
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20:46 masak oh hai.
20:46 masak DanielC: pong.
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20:47 masak I'm growing to like Genshi. I've studied it in detail today.
20:47 masak currently blocking on something like expat bindings for Hitomi. would that be possible in Parrot today?
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20:48 Fuad Hello=)
20:48 masak Fuad: hi!
20:49 DanielC hi
20:49 DanielC masak: I forget what I wanted to ask you :-)
20:49 masak DanielC: ok. :)
20:49 masak DanielC: nice to see progress with your parrot-library stuff!
20:49 DanielC masak: I'm sure it was something about the parrot-module-lib ting.
20:50 DanielC Yeah :-)
20:50 DanielC The project is coming along really well. I'm happy.
20:50 DanielC I've learned a lot about Parrot in the process.
20:51 masak sounds nice.
20:51 DanielC Initially I thought it would be very hard because I didn't know Parrot, but I have found Parrot very easy to learn.
20:52 masak I like the ROADMAP. it makes me excited.
20:52 DanielC :-)
20:52 Fuad hey masak:)
20:53 masak unfortunately, I have to sleep now, because I'm treating a light cold.
20:53 DanielC Ok, good night.
20:53 masak Fuad: have you downloaded Rakudo yet, or are you just here to say hi? :)
20:53 Infinoid DanielC: Did you have a chance to check out that patch?
20:54 DanielC Infinoid: Which patch?
20:54 DanielC Infinoid: Is there already a patch for the is_deeply bug?
20:54 Infinoid Yes.  I guess you left shortly before I linked you to it
20:55 DanielC Oops, sorry.
20:55 Infinoid http://nopaste.snit.ch/16909
20:55 DanielC *click*
20:55 Infinoid That gets your test case passing here, was hoping for some more eyeballs on it tho
20:56 Infinoid I'm also not sure whether is_deeply is currently kosher with regards to definedness/existingness of keys
20:56 DanielC Well, I'm no expert on parrot, I'm not sure how I can help.
20:56 Infinoid I can crash it by passing in a hash which contains some Undefs, for example
20:57 DanielC hn
20:57 DanielC hmm
20:57 Infinoid well, it would help me to understand how (or if) perl6 does exists() on hash keys
20:59 Infinoid Can perl6 create hash keys containing Undef values?  Should is_deeply compare !defined and !exists elements as equivalent?
20:59 DanielC Btw, I've only been using Rakudo < 3 weeks. So it's hard for me to do much more than test.
20:59 pmurias ruoso: hi
20:59 Infinoid Fair enough. :)
20:59 DanielC rakudo: my %h = ( "foo" => undef );
20:59 p6eval rakudo 77f9d7:  ( no output )
20:59 DanielC Infinoid: Looks like it can.
21:00 Infinoid I was just thinking of nailing some more of the corner cases, that's all
21:00 DanielC yeah
21:00 Infinoid Ok.  Passing that hash to is_deeply() will probably crash it
21:00 DanielC Are Rakudo hashes implemented as Parrot hashes?
21:01 Infinoid I don't know.  If you're using Parrot's is_deeply(), it probably doesn't matter either way
21:02 Infinoid I don't see a rakudo-specific hash pmc
21:03 DanielC pmichaud would know the answer.
21:03 DanielC Do you know if this patch will make it to the Tuesday release?
21:05 Infinoid I will commit it today, so yes.  I mainly wanted to know the extent of further work
21:06 DanielC I'm impressed. I didn't expect a patch so soon. Good work :)
21:06 Infinoid I do worry that it may expose bugs in rakudo's test suite that were hidden by the previous breakage, but that's probably a good thing overall
21:07 DanielC Exposing bugs++
21:07 DanielC I think it is a good thing.
21:07 DanielC You want to find out about bugs as early as possible.
21:09 Infinoid I'll make sure nothing else broke in parrot or rakudo, and check it in
21:10 Infinoid I've also added another parrot test to cover it.
21:13 Infinoid What's the right spectest thingy to run for rakudo?
21:13 viklund ?
21:13 DanielC make spetest ?
21:13 DanielC make spectest ?
21:13 viklund make spectest !
21:14 Infinoid Great.  For some reason, I seem to remember "spectest_regression", but I think that's disappeared
21:14 Infinoid thanks
21:18 viklund @seen viklund
21:18 lambdabot You are in #perl6. I last heard you speak just now.
21:19 viklund nice
21:19 viklund Good Night
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22:10 lichtkind ruoso: ping
22:16 lichtkind good night
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