Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-06-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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04:57 azawawi hi there
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05:23 TimToady azawawi: working on your :: bug, but it's resulting in a major refactor :)
05:23 azawawi TimToady: thx
05:23 TimToady (just of the symbol stuff)
05:25 azawawi TimToady: i also noticed that STD does not distinguish between an octal/hex/... number (as seperate tokens)
05:26 azawawi TimToady: im re-factoring S:H:P6 to give out tokens (keywords, literal); somewhat like PPI
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08:52 mberends phenny: tell DanielC no problem both of us being offline for a few days, regular discussion and work can resume in a week or two. I do manage to read most of http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6 to keep up with developments :)
08:52 phenny mberends: I'll pass that on when DanielC is around.
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11:24 lichtkind http://november-wiki.org/view/FAQ
11:25 lichtkind please check this
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12:03 Matt-W lichtkind: anything in particular you want it to be checked for?
12:08 moritz_ lichtkind: s/Interpreter/Compiler/
12:09 moritz_ s/Its/it's/
12:09 moritz_ s/And they want to it done right/And they want to do it right/
12:11 lichtkind Matt-W: no just any somments
12:11 moritz_ lichtkind: most implementations so far were compilers (rakudo, elf, mildew), pugs is a hybrid
12:11 moritz_ calling them "Interpreters" is rather misleading
12:11 lichtkind moritz_: yes but thats not for technical consumer, jsut simpel english
12:12 moritz_ lichtkind: it doesn't hurt do write it correctly, still
12:13 lichtkind moritz_: yes its still in progress
12:14 lichtkind moritz_: + i already fixed that in pugs section
12:15 moritz_ (if you want a general term, use "implementaitions" instead of "interpreter" or "compiler")
12:15 lichtkind ah true thaanks
12:17 Matt-W I recommend 'implementations', for the sake of any spell checkers which might stumble along :)
12:19 lichtkind done :)
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12:42 last Hi all.
12:42 last Just grabbed the latest Rakudo via git, and make test fails on my Mac.
12:42 last (Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask about it / report it.)
12:43 moritz_ last: it's the right place
12:44 moritz_ last: what's the error?
12:45 last t/01-sanity/07-isa.................1/3 Method 'succ' not found for invocant of class 'Block'
12:46 last (I do (and did this time) perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot to get parrot.)
12:46 moritz_ uhm, rakudo just stopped building here, so I can't try it :/
12:47 moritz_ last: could you please open a ticket by mailing to rakudobug@perl.org?
12:48 last Sure thing.  What should I include?
12:49 moritz_ last: version (either release or the git SHA hash that 'git log' shows at the top), platform and error message
12:50 last Roger.  Will get on that ASAP.  Thanks.
12:50 moritz_ thank you for testing.
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12:55 avar http://pastebin.com/m52b1fe3d <- speaking of rakudo errors, anyone else getting this?
12:56 avar That's when running t/spec/S10-packages/basic.rakudo sorry, you don't see that in the paste
12:57 * moritz_ tries that
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13:01 moritz_ avar: that test passes here (amd64 linux)
13:02 avar avar@aoeu:~/src/rakudo$ ./perl6 -e 'use Test; plan 1; package Empty {}; lives_ok {Empty.perl ne "tbd"}, "test for working .perl method"'
13:02 avar 1..1
13:02 avar I can reduce it to that
13:02 avar not ok 1 - test for working .perl method
13:02 avar # Looks like you failed 1 tests of 1
13:02 avar Segmentation fault
13:03 moritz_ rakudo: use Test; plan 1; package Empty {}; lives_ok {Empty.perl ne "tbd"}, "test for working .perl method"'
13:03 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "'"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
13:03 avar rakudo: use Test; plan 1; package Empty {}; lives_ok {Empty.perl ne "tbd"}, "test for working .perl method"
13:03 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«1..1␤not ok 1 - test for working .perl method␤# Looks like you failed 1 tests of 1␤»
13:03 avar It doesn't segfault if I run it under gdb
13:04 moritz_ ah, p6eval also segfaults
13:04 moritz_ but doesn't show it to IRC
13:04 moritz_ it only appears on the console
13:04 moritz_ avar: could you please ticket it?
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13:11 avar going to try building parrot again
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13:48 pugs_svn r27134 | lichtkind++ | added Perl6::Doc to docs section of perl/p6/pugs/docs/feather/pe​rl6-projects.org/index.html
13:49 lichtkind moritz_: besser so :)
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14:29 lichtkind added quasi quoting to Appendix A
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14:31 lichtkind is comb alias to X ?
14:33 moritz_ comb is a method
14:33 moritz_ infix:<X> is an operator
14:33 moritz_ gone (weekend) &
14:41 payload1 rakudo: my$i=42;say $i
14:41 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«42␤»
14:43 payload1 rakudo: our$i=42;say $i
14:43 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«42␤»
14:49 lichtkind moritz_++ thanks
14:49 TimToady but is that what you were asking? :)
14:49 TimToady I took your X to be a metavariable...
14:50 TimToady comb is like m:g/(pattern)/
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14:55 pmurias re http://november-wiki.org/view/Perl_6_Interpreter, elf isn't particulary slow
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15:35 azawawi std: package A { }; package B;
15:35 p6eval std 27134: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
15:35 azawawi std: package A::B { }; package B;
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15:35 p6eval std 27134: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤  Name B redeclared at /tmp/R7YyWISfdr line 1:␤------> [32mpackage A::B { }; package B[31m;[0m␤panic: unexpected package name &A::B␤ok 00:02 35m␤»
15:36 azawawi rakudo: package A { }; package B;
15:36 p6eval rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
15:37 azawawi rakudo: package A::B { }; package B;
15:37 p6eval rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
15:37 azawawi rakudo: package A::B { }; package B; say 1;
15:37 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«1␤»
15:38 azawawi std: package A::B; package C::D;
15:38 p6eval std 27134: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Unable to parse package definition at /tmp/eQlmSI4GGl line 1:␤------> [32mpackage A::B; package C::D[31m;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤      trait␤   whitespace␤panic: unexpected package name &A::B␤panic: unexpected package name &C::D␤FAILED 00:02 35m␤»
15:38 azawawi rakudo: package A::B; package C::D;
15:38 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Unable to parse package definition at line 2, near ";"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:1452)␤»
15:39 azawawi moritz_: is there something wrong with using multiple package declarations in Perl 6?
15:40 TimToady starting with 'package X;' is supposed to mean a Perl 5 module
15:41 TimToady though there are certainly other bugs going on here
15:41 azawawi std: use v6; package A; package B;
15:41 p6eval std 27134: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Unable to parse package definition at /tmp/CWMUwYWDrO line 1:␤------> [32muse v6; package A; package B[31m;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤    trait␤   whitespace␤FAILED 00:02 35m␤»
15:41 azawawi TimToady: it seems it is a related scenario... package A::B; package B;
15:41 TimToady you can only use the ; form once
15:42 TimToady because the ; form declares the type of the whole file
15:42 azawawi TimToady: ah ok;
15:42 TimToady applies to module & class too
15:42 azawawi std: package A { } package B { }
15:42 p6eval std 27134: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Statements must be separated with semicolon at /tmp/fqaK2KWs4s line 1:␤------> [32mpackage A { } [31mpackage B { }[0m␤    expecting any of:␤     infix or meta-infix␤      infix stopper␤    standard stopper␤ statement␤      statement modifier loop␤
15:42 p6eval ..terminator␤FAILED 00:02…
15:42 azawawi std: package A { }; package B { }
15:42 p6eval std 27134: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
15:48 azawawi http://feather.perl6.nl/~azaw​awi/padre-perl6-template.png
16:19 pugs_svn r27135 | lwall++ | [t/basic.t] avoid redeclaration warning
16:21 pugs_svn r27136 | lwall++ | [STD] refactor symbol table manipulation
16:21 pugs_svn r27136 | lwall++ | [STD] give better error on 'module A; module B;'
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16:37 PerlJam std: module A; module B;
16:37 p6eval std 27136: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Unable to parse module definition at /tmp/K4MHr7DRoG line 1:␤------> [32mmodule A; module B[31m;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤       trait␤   whitespace␤FAILED 00:02 35m␤»
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16:42 DQuest Now I'm pretty sure that contains a character that messes up the rendering on my client
16:44 PerlJam the only "odd" characters are the guillemets and the N/L as newline.
16:44 PerlJam oh, I guess the coloration could mess up rendering if your client doesn't grok
16:46 lichtkind how is ternary called these days?
16:46 PerlJam COND ?? TRUE !! FALSE
16:46 lichtkind i know i mean the name
16:46 PerlJam ternary
16:46 lichtkind yes but larry prefers something else
16:46 lichtkind selection op or so
16:47 lichtkind found it conditional
16:48 lichtkind PerlJam: any volunteers? :)
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16:56 PerlJam volunteers for what?
16:56 lichtkind just read and check for mistakes
16:57 PerlJam sure.
16:57 pmurias lichtkind: read what?
16:57 PerlJam I'm even in the right brain-mode for that since  I just got through reading and checking over a proposal at work
16:57 lichtkind first: http://november-wiki.org/view/FAQ
16:58 lichtkind second: http://www.perlfoundation.org/p​erl6/index.cgi?perl_table_index
16:58 pmurias lichtkind: are those questions frequently asked?
16:59 lichtkind pmurias: most of them are the question i got in our forum or after i gave a talk yes
16:59 lichtkind some i consider important :)
17:00 PerlJam lichtkind: so, how do I get an account to fix the mistakes I find?
17:00 lichtkind in november? ask viklund
17:00 lichtkind but tell me im fast
17:01 PerlJam (we hope to feep the old one somehow)  <--  "feep" should probably be "keep", but it still doesn't make enough sense.
17:01 PerlJam oh, "keep the old ones" I guess.
17:02 PerlJam "Why it takes so long?" just needs some grammar.
17:02 PerlJam "We're doing quit well" --> "We're doing quite well"
17:03 PerlJam there's a bunch of minor stuff like that.
17:04 lichtkind thanks then tell me
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17:05 lichtkind PerlJam: fixed the issues you said if there is more please tell me or get an acount
17:10 TimToady std: module A; module B;
17:10 p6eval std 27136: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Too late for semicolon form of module definition at /tmp/LBWQbljHlI line 1:␤------> [32mmodule A; module B[31m;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤        trait␤   whitespace␤FAILED 00:02 35m␤»
17:10 TimToady that's better
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17:13 lichtkind PerlJam: found anything else ? i sometime miss the feeling of native speaker
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17:15 PerlJam lichtkind: there's still some german in http://www.perlfoundation.org/p​erl6/index.cgi?perl_table_index ... Deklarative Programmierung -> Declarative Programming
17:16 lichtkind yes
17:16 lichtkind fixed
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17:25 Su-Shee hi
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17:26 lichtkind Su-Shee: hello
17:27 Su-Shee my gcc problem is gone with pittsburgh. that's very nice.
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17:34 goksie help
17:35 sbp hmm?
17:35 goksie i have problem compiling the latest rakudo
17:35 goksie the parrot_config is missing
17:37 goksie i get error "Unable to locate parrot_config"
17:37 Su-Shee did you build it with perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot?
17:38 goksie yes
17:39 goksie i have been reading the http://irclog.perlgeek.de without success
17:42 Su-Shee i think you can use --parrot-config=path/to/parrots/parrot_config
17:44 goksie i tried to locate the parrot_config on my box.. its not there
17:45 goksie I read build/gen_parrot.pl on line 47 as raised in 14-06-09.. not sucess
17:45 Su-Shee goksie: where's your parrot-dir? and: didn't rakudo checked out a fresh parrot from svn when you called it with --gen-parrot?
17:46 goksie ~rakudo/parrot
17:47 goksie i manually did svn checkout.. i got same error
17:47 Su-Shee strange. I just did build pittsburgh and I've got parrot_config directly in the parrot dir checked out.
17:48 Su-Shee and you build parrot then?
17:49 goksie i have not able to get the latest pull working
17:49 Su-Shee and the parrot rakudo's configure got?
17:50 pmichaud good afternoon #perl6 (from airport)
17:50 goksie I got same error if i run configure in the parrot dir
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17:51 Su-Shee goksie: no idea then, sorry.
17:51 DanielC Whoo hoo! Yay, it's Friday!
17:51 phenny DanielC: 08:52Z <mberends> tell DanielC no problem both of us being offline for a few days, regular discussion and work can resume in a week or two. I do manage to read most of http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6 to keep up with developments :)
17:52 pmichaud will disappear when food arrives :-)
17:52 DanielC Thanks phenny
17:52 DanielC Now I'm off work! Off like a prom dress!
17:53 goksie Su-Shee.. sorry for bordering you.. what rev of parrot did u checked out
17:53 goksie 39633?
17:54 Su-Shee goksie: uhm good question, next question. ;) "the one rakudo pulled" ;)
17:54 goksie yes
17:54 pmichaud correct version of parrot is 39599 (or later)
17:55 goksie sorry... pmichaud .. you are correct
17:55 Su-Shee pittsburgh worked perfectly fine here just now and my strange gcc problem is also gone.
17:55 goksie I changed it when i could not get the 39599 working
17:56 pmichaud goksie: is the parrot directory a subdirectory of the rakudo directory?
17:56 goksie yes..
17:56 pmichaud what happens if you change to that directory and run  "perl ./Configure.pl"  ?
17:56 pmichaud (also, what os are you running?)
17:56 goksie at the ~parrot dir3, i got same error
17:57 goksie Fedora core 9
17:57 pmichaud ...same error?
17:57 goksie yes..
17:57 pmichaud "Unable to locate parrot_config"?
17:57 goksie yes..
17:57 pmichaud that's not right.
17:57 pmichaud try removing the parrot directory entirely, then run  "perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot" from the rakudo directory
17:58 goksie ok.. trying that now..
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17:59 pmichaud I have to go for a bit -- might be back on again while at the gate
17:59 goksie same error even with optimize option
18:01 goksie now in the ~parrot dir3, i was able to configure successfully
18:03 goksie when i run make i got leaving dir3 ~rakudo/parrot/compilers/pge \n [compilers.dummy] Error 2
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18:11 goksie i did a fresh clone and everything is okay now.
18:11 goksie thanks
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18:18 last Okay, that's weird.  I talked to moritz_ this morning about make test failing with Pittsburgh on my Mac.
18:19 last Since then I've done a number of experiments.  It also failed on my 64-bit Linux box.
18:19 last Both of those were updates of existing installations, so I just tried a fresh clone.
18:20 last It worked, so I figured problem solved.
18:20 last But I'd made it in temp directory, and when I tried to move it to the real directory, there were hardcoded paths from the build.
18:20 last No prob, I figure, I can start fresh in a clean directory with a clean clone and get it to work.
18:21 last But no joy!   Exact same sequence of steps, but this time it doesn't work.
18:23 last Only difference I can think of was the directory I used to build?  It works in /Users/last/tools/temp/rakudo, but not in /Users/last/tools/rakudo.
18:23 Su-Shee left #perl6
18:24 last I'll update my bug report later this afternoon, just wanted to get this out there to see if it sparked any ideas about what could be wrong....
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18:33 last (Clean clone and build just failed in /Users/last/rakudo as well.)
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18:42 KyleHa May I please have a commit bit to the Pugs repository?  I'd like to do a little work on the tests.
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18:51 pmichaud last: note that the perl6 executable depends on the build directory being in place
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18:54 TimToady KyleHa: msg me your email and preferred svn nick
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18:55 rindolf Hello perl-sixxers!
18:56 skids go sixxers!
18:56 TimToady KyleHa: it's customary to add yourself to AUTHORS as your first commit
18:56 TimToady (to test the commit bit)
18:57 KyleHa TimToady: I'll give that a try.  Thanks!
18:57 rindolf Hi TimToady
18:57 pmichaud TimToady++ # giver of commitbits
18:57 pmichaud boarding plane -- bbl
18:59 TimToady peddle hard
19:02 rindolf TimToady: lately I've been feeling that I'm getting a little sick of Perl 5.
19:02 rindolf TimToady: but when I write Perl 5 code, I don't seem to notice that.
19:02 pugs_svn r27137 | kyle++ | Adding myself to the AUTHORS list to test commit bit.
19:03 KyleHa Victory!
19:07 pugs_svn r27138 | kyle++ | Replace Pugs todo with fudge command as per deprecated-syntax.pod
19:07 KyleHa Is that correct?  Shall I continue with those?
19:10 pugs_svn r27139 | lwall++ | [STD] much more symbol table refactoring
19:10 pugs_svn r27139 | lwall++ | [Cursor] make imports and enums work right
19:10 pugs_svn r27139 | lwall++ | [Makefile] add snaptest target for fire-and-forget testing
19:10 pugs_svn r27139 | lwall++ | [teststd] remove ..'s from front of reported test name
19:14 TimToady KyleHa: yes, that seems okay, though in some cases you might need something stronger than todo if it blows up
19:14 TimToady and yes, you shall continue. :)
19:14 KyleHa Thank you.
19:16 lichtkind pmurias: are you back?
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19:36 pugs_svn r27140 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Change more Pugs todo flags to fudge commands
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20:01 pugs_svn r27141 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Change more Pugs todo flags to fudge commands
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20:17 pugs_svn r27142 | lwall++ | [STD] count placeholders as "multi"
20:18 pugs_svn r27143 | lwall++ | [teststd] remove ../ from final failure list as well
20:25 pugs_svn r27144 | lwall++ | [STD] don't try to add anonymous names, since they aren't there :)
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20:32 pugs_svn r27145 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Change more Pugs todo flags to fudge commands
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21:00 pugs_svn r27146 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Change more Pugs todo flags to fudge commands
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21:13 azawawi hi
21:13 PerlJam hello
21:15 azawawi pmichaud: PGE or STD syntax highlighting is now a configuration switch in Padre Perl 6 plugin
21:15 azawawi pmichaud: PGE syntax highlighting is really fast
21:15 PerlJam azawawi++
21:16 * PerlJam wonders if it's time to try padre again.
21:16 azawawi PerlJam: PGE syntax highlighting is a bit not 100% correct (color-wise that is).
21:17 pugs_svn r27147 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Change more Pugs todo flags to fudge commands
21:17 azawawi PerlJam: tomorrow im going to hack in quick error fix feature in Padre Perl 6
21:19 azawawi PerlJam: when you get an STD error like obsolete -> for method calls or unmatched POD begin/end, you'll get an quick fix menu when you hit ctrl-~
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21:20 PerlJam cool
21:29 lichtkind PerlJam: did you find any other quirk in the appendix A?
21:30 PerlJam didn't look, been in meetings
21:31 lichtkind ah
21:31 lichtkind PerlJam: would you mind spend now some tuits
21:33 PerlJam maybe later.  It's close to quitting time here and I've got to verify some data before I leave.
21:33 lichtkind PerlJam: yes, i have that page now open anyway adding all quoting adverbs
21:34 pugs_svn r27148 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Change more Pugs todo flags to fudge commands
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21:45 azawawi pmichaud: ping
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21:50 pugs_svn r27149 | lwall++ | [STD] more bogus warning suppression
21:50 azawawi @@tell pmichaud is there any chance we could modify padre's PGE dumper to write stderr to the file supplied in 'perl6 --target=parse --dumper=padre hello.p6'. In win32 gui apps, you do not have the luxury of a console to redirect 2>
21:50 azawawi @tell pmichaud is there any chance we could modify padre's PGE dumper to write stderr to the file supplied in 'perl6 --target=parse --dumper=padre hello.p6'. In win32 gui apps, you do not have the luxury of a console to redirect 2>
21:50 lambdabot Consider it noted.
21:51 * azawawi hates freenode webchat :)
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22:52 lichtkind phew done, all quating adverbs are now indexed
22:52 lichtkind quoting
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23:35 pugs_svn r27150 | lwall++ | [STD] treat package prefix as stub
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23:42 DanielC Question:  Embedding Parrot inside Perl 6 with Q:PIR... Is that a Perl 6 feature, or just a Rakudo feature?
23:43 DanielC Does Perl 6 say anywhere that you can embed other languages with Q:whatever ?
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23:48 TimToady that's a Rakudo feature only
23:48 DanielC Ok. Thanks.
23:56 pugs_svn r27151 | lwall++ | [Cursor] canonicalize placeholders correctly

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