Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-06-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 eternaleye tann: the ... operator is not implemented yet
00:05 eternaleye In rakudo, at least. Pugs handles it.
00:06 eternaleye pugs: .say for  1, 1 ... &[+];
00:06 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1␤all(VInt 0,VList [VInt 1,VInt 2,VInt 3,VInt 4,VInt 5,VInt 6,VInt 7,VInt 8,VInt 9,VInt 10,VInt 11,VInt 12,VInt 13,VInt 14,VInt 15,VInt 16,VInt 17,VInt 18,VInt 19,VInt 20,VInt 21,VInt 22,VInt 23,VInt 24,VInt 25,VInt 26,VInt 27,VInt 28,VInt 29,VInt 30,VInt 31,VInt 32,VInt 33,VInt 34…
00:06 eternaleye Hm. It seems not to do it correctly, though
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00:29 pugs_svn r27156 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Change more Pugs todo flags to fudge commands
00:36 pugs_svn r27157 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Change more Pugs todo flags to fudge commands
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01:01 pugs_svn r27158 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Change more Pugs todo flags to fudge commands
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01:20 pugs_svn r27159 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Change more Pugs todo flags to fudge commands
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06:21 actualeyes How do I do stdin in Perl6?\
06:27 actualeyes my $something = $*IN.readline; gives me
06:27 actualeyes Method 'readline' not found for invocant of class 'IO'
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06:39 azawawi hi
06:39 azawawi actualeyes: hi
06:40 azawawi actualeyes: my $line = $*IN.get;
06:40 azawawi actualeyes: or if you need to ask a question to the user, use my $line = prompt("your question");
06:44 actualeyes Awesome thanks.
06:46 azawawi actualeyes: np
06:47 azawawi actualeyes: what do u use to edit Perl 6? vim? Padre?
06:50 twigil what is Padre?
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06:52 actualeyes vim
06:52 actualeyes I am actually starting to play with it.
06:53 actualeyes Last time I picked up parrot I tried to use <STDIN>
06:53 actualeyes and I got a stack trace
06:53 actualeyes the current build is much more mature
06:54 actualeyes Padre is a new IDE written in Perl for Perl
06:54 actualeyes you can get it in cpan
06:54 actualeyes I tried it once and liked it but, it seemed a bit lightweight.
06:55 actualeyes that may have been 3 months ago.
06:55 actualeyes I'll probably try it in another 6 months
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08:46 finanalyst how do i convert a rakudo program to a binary so i can run without re-parsing?
08:57 viklund finanalyst: rakudo --target=pir --output=file.pir file.pm
08:57 viklund You can only do it with modules
08:57 viklund s/rakudo/perl6/
08:57 finanalyst i thought it was possible for scripts too
08:58 viklund not that I now of
08:59 viklund but just put the entire program in the .pm file
08:59 viklund it will get executed once you 'use' it
09:01 finanalyst suppose i have MyModule.pm and MyModule.pir in the same directory, and then use MyModule, which version gets 'used'
09:01 viklund the pir-version
09:01 finanalyst thanx
09:01 viklund so remember to recompile when you've made a change
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09:06 finanalyst i have most functions in modules anyway.
09:06 finanalyst the change in speed is noticeable when the modules are precompiled
09:06 finanalyst rakudo is parsing and running much much faster recently anyway
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09:12 Su-Shee good morning.
09:15 viklund good morning
09:16 araujo morning
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09:16 azawawi viklund: hi
09:16 viklund o/
09:17 azawawi viklund: any update from pmichaud on the profiler?
09:17 viklund not that im aware of
09:17 azawawi viklund: ok
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12:51 masak o/
12:51 phenny masak: 20 Jun 19:16Z <Matt-W> tell masak yes I was referring to your blog entry
12:51 masak :)
12:56 masak phenny: tell WhiteKnight yes, I'm coming to YAPC::EU. will do a talk about Web.pm.
12:56 phenny masak: I'll pass that on when WhiteKnight is around.
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13:05 payload hi. perl 6 has a gradual type system. where is it documentated which optimizations and speed ups should be possible with these type informations?
13:06 masak payload: the answer is either 'nowhere' or 'here and there'. I'm not so sure.
13:07 masak payload: I get the impression that the designers haven't started thinking deeply about the possible optimisations due to typing.
13:07 masak they're mentioned now and then, but (also AFAIK) no implementation does any of those optimisations.
13:07 Matt-W o/
13:07 masak and that's tantamount to saying that nobody has started thinking about it. :)
13:07 masak Matt-W: \o
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13:09 masak Matt-W: if I knew the reaction from my SVG experiments would be "you're living in the future", I would have attempted them much sooner. :)
13:10 Matt-W haha
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13:10 Matt-W I just thought that was funny
13:10 Matt-W and it tied in with a Wil Wheaton blog entry from last week too
13:10 pmichaud I'd say that the designers have been keeping optimization in mind in building the language so as not to preclude good optimizations
13:10 jonalv o/
13:11 jonalv Say that I wanted to print something like ten million
13:11 jonalv that's and awful lot's of zeros
13:11 masak 10_000_000
13:11 jonalv How would you group them for readability?
13:11 masak jonalv: did I guess your question right? :)
13:12 masak Matt-W: URL?
13:12 pmichaud rakudo:  say 10_000_000
13:12 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«10000000␤»
13:12 jonalv masak: yes, I am not convinced though. I know that some lagnuages use "," and "."
13:12 masak also, 1e7.
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13:12 pmichaud Perl 6 uses underscores.
13:12 masak jonalv: wait, are you complaining about the choice of separator?
13:12 jonalv no
13:13 masak it's underscores, I promise!
13:13 Matt-W rakudo: say 10_000_000
13:13 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«10000000␤»
13:13 Matt-W masak: http://wilwheaton.typepad.com/wwdnb​ackup/2009/06/leverage-day-one.html
13:13 masak Matt-W: hvala.
13:14 Matt-W jonalv: see, underscores :)
13:14 jonalv I trust you :)
13:15 jonalv It's just that I was asking more genrally. A bit off topic I know. But I was hoping for some sort of pretty print function or something like that
13:15 Matt-W oh
13:15 Matt-W I'm writing that
13:15 jonalv you are? :)
13:15 Matt-W yes
13:15 Matt-W it'll be part of the Form.pm module
13:16 jonalv so I take it I ahve to wait then? :)
13:16 Matt-W the numeric formatting stuff includes adding commas or other separator characters you might like
13:16 Matt-W yes you have to wait
13:16 masak jonalv: or roll your own just for this purpose.
13:16 masak jonalv: or help Matt-W :)
13:16 Matt-W Form has some othe rfeatures to do first... like, any kind of number formatting at all :)
13:16 masak it's very close now.
13:17 Matt-W yes
13:17 jonalv masak: yes I could definitly roll my own. Which brings my bak to original question. How would you group them for readability?
13:17 masak jonalv: I misunderstood your question, sorry. you want to _output_ numbers, not enter them into your source code.
13:17 Matt-W just when I can sit down with my brain and do it
13:17 masak jonalv: by threes.
13:17 jonalv masak: yes, and would you do spaces between?
13:17 masak jonalv: that's up to you, I guess.
13:18 masak whatever suits you best.
13:18 jonalv masak: I think that's the swedish approach and it might not be so international...
13:18 Matt-W commas is what we use in england, in groups of three
13:18 masak jonalv: no, periods ('.') is the Swedish approach.
13:18 Matt-W but some other european languages use . in groups of three
13:18 jonalv masak: oh
13:18 jonalv :)
13:18 masak jonalv: we got that from the French, methinks.
13:19 Matt-W So English would be 1,000,000.00 but Swedish is 1.000.000,00, I believe
13:19 jonalv Hm I wonder if I can get LaTeX to just add a small space between the groups?
13:20 Matt-W probably, but it might be quite complicated
13:20 jonalv (I guess that was the wrong forum) :)
13:20 Matt-W yeah my LaTeX isn't very good
13:20 Matt-W I can write an essay in it
13:20 masak jonalv: something like '\ '.
13:20 jonalv masak: yea
13:20 jonalv so then I just need to get Perl6 to split my numbers correct and add that between...
13:22 masak jonalv: http://www.giss.nasa.gov/tools/latex/ltx-185.html
13:23 jonalv masak: perfect
13:23 jonalv masak: now, the question just is. Do I hard code the numbers or do I write code for doing the pretty printing?
13:23 jonalv How hard could it be? :)
13:23 masak jonalv: the latter.
13:23 masak hold on.
13:25 masak rakudo: sub group($num is copy) { return reverse gather while $num > 0 { take $num % 1000; $num = int($num / 1000) } }; say group(123456789).join(".")
13:25 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«123.456.789␤»
13:25 masak et voilà.
13:27 jonalv masak: uhm "$num is copy"?
13:27 masak jonalv: just so I can modify $num inside the sub.
13:27 jonalv oh
13:27 jonalv cool
13:27 masak without harming the original argument.
13:28 masak jonalv: just so you know what you have to look forward to in Matt-W's work, please skim through this document: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Perl6-Form/Form.pm
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13:30 payload rakudo: say "\x2002" # should be a small space when i remember the unicode syntax in perl 6 correctly
13:30 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT« ␤»
13:31 masak apparently that was the syntax.
13:31 * jonalv heads to try and get his first "sub" to work
13:31 payload rakudo: sub group($num is copy) { return reverse gather while $num > 0 { take $num % 1000; $num = int($num / 1000) } }; say group(1234567890).join("\x2002")
13:31 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«1 234 567 890␤»
13:33 masak rakudo: sub group($num is copy, $size = 3) { my $d = 10 ** $size; return reverse gather while $num { take $num % $d; $num = int($num / $d) }; say group(1234567890).perl
13:33 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Unable to parse block; couldn't find final '}' at line 2, near ""␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
13:33 masak oops.
13:33 masak rakudo: sub group($num is copy, $size = 3) { my $d = 10 ** $size; return reverse gather while $num { take $num % $d; $num = int($num / $d) } }; say group(1234567890).perl
13:33 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«[1, 234, 567, 890]␤»
13:35 jonalv rakudo: sub group($num is copy, $size = 3) { my $d = 10 ** $size; return reverse gather while $num { take $num % $d; $num = int($num / $d) } }; say group(1234567890).join(\\,)
13:35 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "(\\\\,)"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
13:35 masak still need to put strings in quotes.
13:36 jonalv oh "duh" :)
13:36 jonalv rakudo: sub group($num is copy, $size = 3) { my $d = 10 ** $size; return reverse gather while $num { take $num % $d; $num = int($num / $d) } }; say group(1234567890).join("\\,")
13:36 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«1\,234\,567\,890␤»
13:37 * jonalv runs his script and hopes the pdf will look good :)
13:38 jonalv rakudo: sub group($num is copy, $size = 3) { my $d = 10 ** $size; return reverse gather while $num { take $num % $d; $num = int($num / $d) } }; say group(1000000).join("\\,")
13:38 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«1\,0\,0␤»
13:38 jonalv hm...
13:38 masak oh!
13:38 masak sorry, fixing.
13:39 jonalv :)
13:39 masak rakudo: sub group($num is copy, $size = 3) { my $d = 10 ** $size; return reverse gather while $num { take sprintf '%03d', $num % $d; $num = int($num / $d) } }; say group(1000000).perl
13:39 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«["001", "000", "000"]␤»
13:39 masak hm.
13:40 masak rakudo: sub group($num is copy, $size = 3) { my $d = 10 ** $size; return reverse gather while $num { take (sprintf '%03d', $num % $d).subst(/^ 0+/, ''); $num = int($num / $d) } }; say group(1000000).perl
13:40 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«["1", "", ""]␤»
13:40 masak hm... :/
13:41 masak rakudo: sub group($num is copy, $size = 3) { my $d = 10 ** $size; return reverse gather while $num { take (sprintf '%03d', $num % $d).subst(/^ 0+ <!before $>/, ''); $num = int($num / $d) } }; say group(1000000).perl
13:41 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«["1", "0", "0"]␤»
13:41 masak wow, wrong again.
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13:41 masak how do I say 'remove leading zeroes, unless they constitute the whole string?'
13:41 * jonalv thinks it was not so easy after all...
13:42 azawawi joined #perl6
13:42 masak jonalv: no, it is. I just haven't had my coffee yet.
13:42 jonalv masak: you don't drink coffee...
13:42 masak oh noes!
13:42 masak I _really_ haven't had my coffee yet.
13:43 payload my $a = $b.triml("0") ?? $a !! $b      or something like that?
13:43 payload can't test... rakudo is compiling ^^
13:43 masak rakudo: sub group($num is copy, $size = 3) { my $d = 10 ** $size; return reverse gather while $num { take (sprintf '%03d', $num % $d) || (sprintf '%03d', $num % $d).subst(/^ 0+/, ''); $num = int($num / $d) } }; say group(1000000).perl
13:43 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«["001", "000", "000"]␤»
13:44 * jonalv stares wide-eyed at that code for a while
13:44 masak rakudo: sub group($num is copy, $size = 3) { my $d = 10 ** $size; return reverse gather while $num { take (sprintf '%03d', $num % $d) && (sprintf '%03d', $num % $d).subst(/^ 0+/, ''); $num = int($num / $d) } }; say group(1000000).perl
13:44 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«["1", "", ""]␤»
13:44 * masak grumbles
13:45 azawawi hi
13:47 masak rakudo: sub group($num is copy, Int $size = 3) { my $d = 10 ** $size; return reverse gather while $num { my $s = sprintf("%03d", $num % $d); take $s ~~ /^ 0+ $/ ?? $s !! $s.subst(/^ 0+/, ""); $num = int($num / $d) } }; say group(1e6).perl
13:47 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
13:47 masak jonalv: there you go. that works.
13:48 masak but rakudo is rebuilding right now in the server.
13:48 masak azawawi: hi!
13:48 jonalv masak: I will try that then :)
13:48 masak Matt-W: really looking forward to number formatting in Form.pm :P
13:53 jonalv that worked (And it looks very nice too) thanks masak++
13:54 masak thanks. I'll be here all week.
13:54 masak no really, I will.
13:54 masak and the next one, too.
13:54 masak rakudo: sub group($num is copy, Int $size = 3) { my $d = 10 ** $size; return reverse gather while $num { my $s = sprintf("%03d", $num % $d); take $s ~~ /^ 0+ $/ ?? $s !! $s.subst(/^ 0+/, ""); $num = int($num / $d) } }; say group(1e6).perl
13:54 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«["1", "000", "000"]␤»
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14:06 azawawi std: module A; module B;
14:06 p6eval std 27159: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Too late for semicolon form of module definition at /tmp/NSDhAAjXCa line 1:␤------> [32mmodule A; module B[31m;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤        trait␤   whitespace␤FAILED 00:02 35m␤»
14:06 azawawi std: module A { } module B {}
14:06 p6eval std 27159: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Whitespace is required between alphanumeric tokens at /tmp/pBaJKTUaTE line 1:␤------> [32mmodule A { } mod[31mule B {}[0m␤FAILED 00:02 36m␤»
14:06 azawawi std: module A { }; module B { }
14:06 p6eval std 27159: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
14:07 azawawi std: module A::B { }; module B { }
14:07 p6eval std 27159: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
14:07 azawawi std: module A::B { }; module B::C { }
14:07 p6eval std 27159: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
14:07 azawawi std: package A::B { }; package B { }
14:07 p6eval std 27159: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
14:07 azawawi std: package A::B { }; package B::A { }
14:07 p6eval std 27159: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
14:07 masak std: module A {}; module B;
14:07 p6eval std 27159: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
14:08 masak std: module A { module B; }
14:08 p6eval std 27159: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
14:08 masak we're quite lenient these days.
14:09 azawawi masak: sorry :)
14:09 masak azawawi: for what?
14:09 azawawi for STD flooding :)
14:09 masak I meant that STD.pm has a lenient policy for statement-form package declarations.
14:10 masak azawawi: no, flood on.
14:10 azawawi ah i see
14:10 masak there's plenty of backlog room left. :)
14:10 masak also, accusing you of flooding right now would be a bit hypocritical of me. :P
14:10 * azawawi is making some screenshots from Ecliptic+Perl6 on Padre for masak :)
14:11 masak :)
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14:21 azawawi masak: see the screenshots for ecliptic+perl6 in action... http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/quick_fix/
14:21 azawawi masak: it is now released on CPAN :)
14:22 masak azawawi++
14:23 azawawi masak: perl 6 rename var and extract method is next on my agenda
14:23 azawawi masak: along with world domination ofcourse :)
14:23 masak azawawi: I'm curious... do you use STD.pm or 'perl6 --taget=parse' for this?
14:23 azawawi masak: STD ofcourse;
14:24 azawawi masak: you have the option of switching to STD or PGE
14:24 masak aha.
14:24 masak do you have a link to the source code that does this?
14:24 masak I'm guessing you use YAML at some critical point.
14:26 masak azawawi: found a slight wart: the quick-fix menu option has an unnecessary question mark: "Insert a space after if?"
14:26 masak azawawi: otherwise it looks really good.
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14:30 azawawi masak: sure...
14:31 azawawi masak: http://svn.perlide.org/padr​e/trunk/Padre-Plugin-Perl6
14:31 azawawi masak: Perl6::Document
14:31 masak thank you.
14:31 azawawi masak: it is not refactored yet though :)
14:32 azawawi masak: and the fixes are not 100% error proof :)
14:32 masak I'm more interested in porting this to Perl 6 than in refactoring. :)
14:33 azawawi masak: tonight im going to blog heavily about it
14:33 masak hey, look! I'm mentioned in a comment! :)
14:33 azawawi masak: first real blog :)
14:33 azawawi masak: S29-functions?
14:33 masak yep.
14:34 azawawi masak: i think once hinrik gets grok working; we can move to a better solution...
14:34 masak azawawi: anyway, great work! keep it up.
14:34 masak azawawi: yes, great hope lies in grok.
14:34 masak but it's only half the excellent implementation literal++ will write.
14:35 azawawi masak: will it restore the balance to the force? :)
14:35 masak the other half is the excellent documentation itself.
14:35 masak azawawi: it will almost tip the balance over the other way.
14:37 * masak catches himself writing the ternary operator as a?b!c in Java
14:37 azawawi masak: i should write a quick fix for that :)
14:38 masak yes, but the other way around.
14:38 azawawi std: a ? b : c;
14:38 p6eval std 27159: OUTPUT«Undeclared routines:␤  b used at 1 ␤     c used at 1 ␤ok 00:02 39m␤»
14:38 masak writing ?? :: happens sometimes too.
14:38 azawawi i think std used to warn about it
14:38 masak std: "foo" ? "bar" : "baz"
14:38 p6eval std 27159: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of ?: for the conditional operator; in Perl 6 please use ??!! instead at /tmp/X1IFdrPABt line 1:␤------> [32m"foo" ?[31m "bar" : "baz"[0m␤FAILED 00:04 36m␤»
14:38 masak it does.
14:38 masak but somehow it didn't trigger for you.
14:38 azawawi std: a == "foo" ? "bar" : 1
14:39 p6eval std 27159: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of ?: for the conditional operator; in Perl 6 please use ??!! instead at /tmp/WchfLq8igP line 1:␤------> [32ma == "foo" ?[31m "bar" : 1[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤     a used at 1 ␤FAILED 00:04 36m␤»
14:39 masak azawawi: ah, if a, b, c are listops, what you wrote first actually parses.
14:40 azawawi masak: one thing i didnt perfect; is the regexp for a perl 6 identifier
14:40 azawawi masak: Foo::Bar-In::C
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15:03 masak rakudo: my $n = 1; for ^10 { say $n; $n = $n.subst(/(\d) $0*/, { $/.chars ~ $0 }, :g) }
15:03 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«1␤11␤21␤1211␤111221␤312211␤13112221␤111​3213211␤31131211131221␤13211311123113112211␤»
15:04 masak Conway sequence.
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15:32 japhb Happy Father's Day, papas!
15:34 masak I had to make sure earlier today that it isn't Father's Day here in Sweden.
15:34 masak apparently, ours is in November (the month).
15:36 Su-Shee here it's mostly a very annoying binge drinking. ;)
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15:44 Muixirt Su-Shee, and you are annoyed because the binge drinking is taking place without you?
15:45 Su-Shee No! :) I don't drink anyway but maybe a glass of wine from time to time (where time = month)
15:46 Su-Shee it's more the utterly drunken "dads" you're encountering. ;)
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16:01 lichtkind is classify operator gone?
16:03 pugs_svn r27160 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] Added tests for previous STD bugs
16:04 azawawi joined #perl6
16:07 pmurias lichtkind: not it's not
16:07 lichtkind pmurias: thanks
16:09 lichtkind pmurias++
16:09 M_o_C joined #perl6
16:10 lichtkind perl 6 is madness http://www.perlfoundation.org/pe​rl6/index.cgi?perl_table_index#c
16:10 pugs_svn r27161 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] version 0.63 contains the latest STD.pm with the fixed symbol table bug
16:10 pugs_svn r27161 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] 'module Foo::Bar { }; module Bar { };' # redeclared Bar
16:10 pugs_svn r27161 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] TimToady++
16:13 pmurias lichtkind: moritz_ was attempting something vaguely similiar with misc/perlhints
16:13 masak and u4x is also a similar effort.
16:14 lichtkind pmurias: yes he told me 2 years ago on german perl workshop but thats something with different task
16:14 masak ...but with a CLI client thrown in.
16:14 lichtkind and in u4x isn much to steal from yet :)
16:14 lichtkind i mean take
16:15 masak true.
16:15 masak it's still in its early stages.
16:15 masak even the high-flying plans for it are in their early stages. :)
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16:15 lichtkind masak: so iont see reason to drop that effort if it brings me so much nice klingon pain
16:16 masak lichtkind: of course not. keep up the good work.
16:16 viklund joined #perl6
16:17 pmurias lichtkind: was hoping for some kind of synergy rather than encouraging you to drop your effort
16:18 lichtkind pmurias: there isnt that much synergy since my page is just a index of an perl 6 lexicon and moritz tries to explain whole lines of perl 6 with his programm
16:18 azawawi masak: what mistakes do u keep running into when writing p5->p6?  like the 1==1 ? "a": "b" => ?? !!
16:19 masak azawawi: not many, I think. I can context-switch quite well these days.
16:19 Matt-W I tend to make more mistakes in Perl 5, thinking I can do Perl 6 things
16:19 lichtkind pmurias: only some resource lists could be shared but moritz didn't much in last months
16:19 masak and I make very few Perl5-inspired mistakes in my Perl 6, since the latter is my main tongue.
16:19 masak ah, what Matt-W said.
16:20 Psyche^ joined #perl6
16:20 Matt-W My default 'Perl' thoughts are Perl 6 ones
16:20 azawawi hmmm nice
16:20 pmurias and ? ... : ... is unintuitive enough that it doesn't get used accidently
16:20 viklund y0 6-ers
16:20 masak viklund: whoz op?
16:20 viklund BUILD in november
16:20 masak ya, I saw.
16:20 masak viklund++
16:21 viklund I only need to run some more tests and then I'll push
16:21 masak YaY
16:21 Matt-W a lot of people seem to think it's ?? :: in Perl 6, they get caught by the !!
16:21 ZuLuuuuuu joined #perl6
16:22 viklund oh, and I found a BUILD related bug as well
16:22 viklund #66792
16:22 masak yes, that's the one I saw.
16:23 azawawi pmurias: i postponed re-mildew runtime support in Padre Perl 6 until i get it running :)
16:23 pmurias np
16:23 viklund it clobbers defaults in roles as well
16:23 pmurias azawawi: i'll likely add it myself if i switch to padre
16:24 masak pmurias: do you and ruoso have weekly meetings in #perl6-soc?
16:24 azawawi pmurias: cool :)
16:24 pmurias masak: no
16:24 masak pmurias: literal and I were talking about it today. we decided on Wednesdays at 19:00. you're welcome to join, if you feel it would be of value.
16:25 viklund what's the "soc" postfix?
16:25 viklund Summer of Code?
16:25 masak aye.
16:25 masak I'm a mentor this summer.
16:26 viklund masak: mmm, I have your druid svg in a tab, I don't want to close it ;)
16:26 masak 哈哈
16:27 masak bet it's one of the latter two, with real perspective.
16:27 viklund yep
16:27 masak now, imagine that same image, but containing an ongoing game, with clickable surfaces, a set of rotation buttons, and js all the way to make things respond.
16:28 viklund shiver me timbers
16:30 masak I hope I have something like that working by the end of the summer. but it sort of depends on Web.pm too.
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16:43 lichtkind Appendix has now 361 entry
16:43 lichtkind i think i make just 2 more today
16:49 s1n1 joined #perl6
16:55 masak 'Disruptive innovation tends to appear “off the radar” of the established players. It is often inferior to the established product in many ways. It tends to start in some small niche where it happens to work better than the established technology. The majors ignore it, as it clearly can’t handle the “real” problems they are focused on. Over time, the new technology grows more competent and eats its way upward, consuming the previous
16:55 masak market leader’s lunch.'
16:55 masak From "The Language Designer's Dilemma" -- http://gbracha.blogspot.com/2009​/04/last-week-i-was-at-lang.html
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17:13 moritz_ re
17:14 japhb How would you import namespace aliases in a lexical scope?  In other words, let's say I have a bunch of modules under OpenGL::Math::, such as OpenGL::Math::Mat4x4 and OpenGL::Math::Vec4.  When I 'use OpenGL::Math;' can I arrange for the caller to be able to say 'my Vec4 pos .= new;' without polluting the top-level namespace globally, but only in the scope that used OpenGL::Math?
17:15 Tene japhb: that's specced as the default
17:15 Tene but it's NYI in Rakudo
17:15 Tene oh, I kinda misread.
17:15 japhb What, what?
17:15 japhb oh, heh
17:17 Tene oh, no, I was right the first time, as long as OpenGL::Math exports Vec4.
17:17 Tene That's what I rmemeber from the spec, at least, that all imports are lexical.
17:17 japhb Still, it sounds like you're saying this is not one problem, but two (one of which is solved in the spec): 1) Alias namespaces on import, 2) affect only lexical space in "user".
17:17 japhb So you're saying,
17:17 japhb class OpenGL::Math::Vec4 is export('Vec4')
17:17 japhb or somesuch?
17:18 Tene Yeah.  Lemme check if that works now.
17:20 Tene ah, no, not so much.
17:21 japhb :-)
17:22 payload joined #perl6
17:23 moritz_ masak++ # 3D SVG for druid
17:23 japhb moritz_: link?
17:24 Tene http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/39152
17:25 japhb masak++ # RAWK.
17:30 justatheory joined #perl6
17:33 lichtkind can anybody confitm the string method flip ?
17:34 lichtkind confirm
17:35 moritz_ rakudo can ;-)
17:35 moritz_ rakudo: say "foo".flip
17:35 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«oof␤»
17:35 moritz_ S32 can, too
17:35 moritz_ and the test suite
17:36 skids lichtkind: history on that -- .reverse was for all 3 hash, list, string.  It was changed to .flip for string and .invert for hash (with altered behavior)
17:37 skids because it was mondo confusing
17:37 lichtkind skids++ moritz++ thanks
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17:43 lichtkind forces flip string context?
17:44 moritz_ aye
17:44 moritz_ rakudo: say 24.flip
17:44 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«42␤»
17:44 moritz_ wow, this feels like the good old times half a year ago: I come back from a weekend being offline, and have two new rakudobugs sitting in my mail queue
17:45 moritz_ http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=773394 # my current thoughts about the pugs repo and the test suite
17:47 lichtkind moritz_: why its rarely these days?
17:47 moritz_ lichtkind: because I don't tend to find so many new rakudobugs
17:49 moritz_ (and I don't spend so many weekends hacking Perl 6 either :/ )
17:49 lichtkind moritz_: so jnthn improved his buf shiding skillz?
17:50 lichtkind bug hiding
17:51 moritz_ lichtkind: hey, they aren't all hidden, some even get fixed ;-)
17:52 lichtkind ... rumors
17:52 lichtkind invert revertes the key => value relation?
17:52 s1n1 joined #perl6
17:52 moritz_ rakudo: my %a = (a => 3, 'foo' => [<bar baz>]); say %a.invert.perl
17:53 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«[3 => "a", "bar" => "foo", "baz" => "foo"]␤»
17:53 kst joined #perl6
17:54 lichtkind wie ich mir dachte, thanks
17:55 pugs_svn r27162 | moritz++ | [t] rename TASKS to spec/TODO
17:55 pugs_svn r27163 | moritz++ | [t/spec] s/MONKEY_PATCHING/MONKEY_TYPING/ as per r26973
17:55 pugs_svn r27164 | moritz++ | [t/spec/TODO] update with recent spec changes
17:55 s1n1 joined #perl6
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17:58 pmurias moritz_: re moving to git - using git-svn is always the option
17:59 moritz_ pmurias: I do that now... but if we move the test suite out of the pugs repo one day, then we can just as well use a different version control system
17:59 pmurias what are the benefits of moving it out?
18:00 moritz_ basically getting rid of the association with pugs
18:00 moritz_ which, in the mind of most people, is a dead animal
18:00 moritz_ and it doesn't help to view the spec test as being implementation independent, either
18:01 moritz_ anyway, I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble
18:02 Molaf joined #perl6
18:02 pmurias throwing pugs out of the pugs repo would be a better solution ;)
18:02 moritz_ yes, but it kinda feels... rude
18:03 aindilis joined #perl6
18:06 s1n1 how do i import subs into (or export from) a module so that i can invoke them without the class/namespace?
18:07 skids s1n1: add an "is export" trait.
18:07 s1n_yapc skids: s10?
18:09 moritz_ module A { sub foo is export { ... } };
18:09 moritz_ then in another file
18:09 moritz_ use A;
18:09 moritz_ foo();
18:10 Su-Shee ha, I had the same question on my mind, thanks for the anwser. :)
18:10 s1n_yapc moritz_: how can i say all subs are exported?
18:11 skids (also works with methods, but exports a sub with invocant as the first parameter)
18:11 moritz_ s1n_yapc: by marking them all with 'is export'. I don't think there's a magic for that.
18:12 skids (that part is in S12)
18:12 s1n_yapc moritz_: nothing like 'module A is export { sub foo {...}; sub bar { ... } }'?
18:13 moritz_ s1n_yapc: don't know.. something similar exists for classes and 'is rw', so the idea can't be off very far ;-)
18:13 * s1n_yapc suggests spec change
18:14 * moritz_ suggests thinking more about it first ;-)
18:18 skids once you had a module that exported everything by default, how would you indicate a non-exported sub when you wanted one?
18:19 moritz_ very good point
18:22 * moritz_ found a (hypothetical) way to access previous elements from gather/take
18:23 moritz_ my @a := gather { for @list { take $_; # access @a here } }
18:23 skids moritz: or @a <== gather {...}
18:24 moritz_ skids: that's even nicer ;-)
18:24 skids (hope you don't expect it to work already, then :-)
18:24 moritz_ I had the faint hope that my idea might work
18:25 moritz_ that would allow an implementation of infix:<...> that would magically become lazy onces lists/arrays are lazy
18:25 skids It's specced in S07
18:26 skids But I doubt it will be available before laziness.
18:29 tann joined #perl6
18:30 moritz_ rakudo: say 2 % 1
18:30 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«0␤»
18:34 s1n_yapc rakudo: sub foo($opt?, $other) { say "opt {$opt} other {$other}" }; foo(1, 2);
18:34 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«opt 2 other 1␤»
18:34 s1n_yapc is that right?
18:35 moritz_ s1n_yapc: no, should be compile-time error
18:35 * s1n_yapc submits
18:36 moritz_ s1n_yapc: all optional positionals must go after mandatory ones, iirc
18:36 s1n_yapc moritz_: but it was supposed to fail to compile?
18:37 moritz_ s1n_yapc: yes
18:38 skids S06: "Arguments destined for required positional parameters must come before those bound to optional positional parameters."  and "Required parameters are specified at the start of a subroutine's parameter list"
18:41 s1n_yapc rt# 49812 could probably be closed now
18:43 moritz_ not sure... I'll ask pmichaud and jnthn for an update
18:43 s1n_yapc moritz_: he was standing in front of me and he said it should probably closed
18:44 s1n_yapc i mentioned it so someone could check it and do something :)
18:44 moritz_ s1n_yapc: thanks, I'll close it
18:44 s1n_yapc moritz_: here to help
18:51 Muixirt hi moritz_ did building with clang work?
18:52 moritz_ Muixirt: no
18:53 Muixirt what was the problem?
18:53 moritz_ Muixirt: it send some of the scripts that process PMCs into an infinite loop, and i have no idea why
18:53 moritz_ *sent
18:54 moritz_ progress report:
18:54 moritz_ $ perl6 -e '1...3'
18:54 moritz_ Could not find non-existent sub infix:...
18:55 Tene nice progress
18:55 moritz_ before it tried to parse the ... as . .. and failed to construct a range
18:56 Tene Ah.
18:58 moritz_ now it just seems a SMOP
18:59 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = 1; repeat { say $x++ } until 1;
18:59 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:01 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 4; sub f($a, $b) { say "$a|$b" }; f(@a[1..2])
19:01 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (1) - 2 params expected␤in sub f (/tmp/8bpYRTI3hZ:1)␤called from Main (/tmp/8bpYRTI3hZ:2)␤»
19:01 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 4; sub f($a, $b) { say "$a|$b" }; f(|@a[1..2])
19:01 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«2|4␤»
19:01 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 4; sub f($a, $b) { say "$a|$b" }; f(|@a[*-2..2])
19:01 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«2|4␤»
19:01 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 4; sub f($a, $b) { say "$a|$b" }; f(|@a[*-2..*-1])
19:01 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«2|4␤»
19:02 * moritz_ doesn't understand why his code doesn't work, then
19:03 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 4; sub f($a) { say $a }; f(|@a[*-1..*-1])
19:03 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«argument doesn't array␤in sub f (/tmp/2x4tmnOO68:1)␤called from Main (/tmp/2x4tmnOO68:2)␤»
19:04 amoc rakudo: my @a=1; sub f($a) { say $a }; f(|@a);
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19:04 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:06 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 4; sub f($a) { say $a }; f(|@a[1..1])
19:06 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«argument doesn't array␤in sub f (/tmp/a56cpyUqNl:1)␤called from Main (/tmp/a56cpyUqNl:2)␤»
19:07 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 4; sub f($a) { say $a }; f(|@(@a[1..1]))
19:07 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«2␤»
19:09 amoc rakudo: my @a=1,2,4; @a[1..1].WHAT.say;
19:09 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
19:09 moritz_ right
19:09 moritz_ rakudo: sub f($x) { $x }; f(|1)
19:09 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«argument doesn't array␤in sub f (/tmp/YVDArezQYc:1)␤called from Main (/tmp/YVDArezQYc:2)␤»
19:09 moritz_ not very dwimmy, but I'm not sure it's a bug
19:10 moritz_ rakudo: sub f($x) { $x }; say f(|@(1))
19:10 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«1␤»
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19:23 s1n_yapc if i overload a parent's method, can i call the original parent version from the overloaded one?
19:23 moritz_ yes
19:23 moritz_ (don't ask how, though ;)
19:23 s1n_yapc moritz_: syntax?
19:23 s1n_yapc lol
19:24 moritz_ S03 mentions $obj.Class::method
19:25 moritz_ though the usage in S12:1526 seems to contradict that (?)
19:25 moritz_ TimToady: any thoughts on the last few lines?
19:42 moritz_ any idea if t/oo/positional_parameters_in_BUILD.t  makes any sense?
19:46 moritz_ seems not.
19:47 pugs_svn r27165 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fudge "use Test" directive for Rakudo
19:47 pugs_svn r27166 | moritz++ | [t/spec] tests for non-lazy infix<...>
19:47 pugs_svn r27166 | moritz++ |
19:47 pugs_svn r27166 | moritz++ | Also fudged rest of the file for rakudo (hopefully)
19:47 pugs_svn r27167 | moritz++ | [t] remove outdated/unspecced test
19:51 moritz_ http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=66826 # that's what happened when I tried to implement infix:<...>. Pity.
19:56 pugs_svn r27168 | kyle++ | [t/spec/TODO] Add a link to a discussion about moving old Pugs tests.
20:00 azawawi joined #perl6
20:01 azawawi hello
20:02 azawawi moritz_: http://ahmadzawawi.blogspot.com/2009/06/​padres-perl-6-support-and-ecliptic.html
20:02 moritz_ http://consttype.blogspot.com/​2009/06/future-of-perl-5.html # another, altogether different very good read
20:03 moritz_ azawawi: very nice
20:03 azawawi thx
20:04 azawawi starwars movie & :)
20:22 Khisanth moritz_: hopefully it isn't $obj.Class::method, it looks horrible :)
20:23 moritz_ Khisanth: what kind of syntax would you prefer?
20:24 Khisanth something that wouldn't require me to specify the class!
20:25 moritz_ like $obj.SUPER::method?
20:26 moritz_ that's the Perl 5 way
20:26 moritz_ but it's a bit imprecise when multiple inheritance comes into play
20:28 Khisanth I am fine with Class::C3's next::method()
20:28 Khisanth having to memorize family trees is no my idea of fun
20:29 moritz_ well, maybe reading S12 will tell you how it's done
20:34 kst joined #perl6
20:36 * Khisanth waits for FF to stop thrashing
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21:05 japhb Who is the working tell bot right now?
21:06 moritz_ phenny is, I think
21:07 japhb phenny: tell azawawi In http://ahmadzawawi.blogspot.com/2009/06/​padres-perl-6-support-and-ecliptic.html, the last bullet point is incorrect: "Use of C++ constructor syntax (in Perl 6 new Foo should be written Foo->new)."
21:07 phenny japhb: I'll pass that on when azawawi is around.
21:07 japhb moritz_: thank you!
21:08 moritz_ japhb: you're welcome
21:08 moritz_ http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-​6/new-operators-failed.writeback summary of my activity tonight
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23:20 lichtkind night
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23:59 lichtkind moritz_: did you see i included your blog on http://www.perlfoundation.org/​perl6/index.cgi?documentation

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