IRC log for #perl6, 2009-06-22

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

← Previous day | Channels | #perl6 index | Today | Next day → | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time	S	Nick	Message
00:05			Caelum joined #perl6
00:14			tann_ joined #perl6
00:22			frew joined #perl6
00:27			s1n1 joined #perl6
01:18		amoc	eval: say 'may i test'
01:18		amoc	rakudo: say 'again'
01:18		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«again␤»
01:18		amoc	rakudo: say 'again 2'
01:18		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«again 2␤»
01:22			kst joined #perl6
01:38			netfish joined #perl6
01:42			twigil joined #perl6
01:47			mycelium joined #perl6
01:49			molaf_xx joined #perl6
01:49			synth joined #perl6
02:02			dukeleto joined #perl6
02:07			amoc joined #perl6
02:08			jonathanturner joined #perl6
02:11			agentzh joined #perl6
02:34			amoc__ joined #perl6
02:48			ihrd left #perl6
02:48			cotto joined #perl6
02:52			amoc joined #perl6
02:58			kst joined #perl6
03:01			meppl joined #perl6
03:07			azawawi joined #perl6
03:07		azawawi	hi
03:07		phenny	azawawi: 21 Jun 21:07Z <japhb> tell azawawi In http://ahmadzawawi.blogspot.co[…]and-ecliptic.html, the last bullet point is incorrect: "Use of C++ constructor syntax (in Perl 6 new Foo should be written Foo->new)."
03:07		* azawawi	scratches his head
03:08			cotto joined #perl6
03:14		Tene	azawawi: wh?
03:14		Tene	eh?
03:16			agentzh left #perl6
03:16		azawawi	Tene: what's wrong in my last bullet point in your opinion?
03:17			agentzh joined #perl6
03:17		Tene	It should be Foo.new instead of Foo->new, yes?
03:18		azawawi	lol
03:18		azawawi	i just woke up
03:18		azawawi	thanks
03:18		Tene	can you quick fix it?
03:18		Tene	;)
03:20		azawawi	done
03:20			donaldh joined #perl6
03:20		azawawi	japhb: thanks. fixed :)
03:22		azawawi	Tene: now it is time to continue creating quick fixes for more popular STD errors/warnings.
03:28		azawawi	so once grok is ready, i think the process of tying STD error reporting to Perl 6 documentation would be very interesting.
03:29			frew joined #perl6
03:42			meppuru joined #perl6
03:44			alester joined #perl6
03:56		azawawi	std: "abc" ~~ //;
03:56		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Null regex not allowed at /tmp/xAegvdquFJ line 1:␤------> "abc" ~~ //;␤FAILED 00:04 36m␤»
03:57		azawawi	what's a good quick fix to null regex "abc" ~~ // ?
04:04		amoc	rakudo: Block.does(Code).say
04:04		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«1␤»
04:07		awwaiid	azawawi, your nick is the closest to mine as any I've ever seen!
04:08		azawawi	cool
04:11		Tene	azawawi: why would someone try to match against //?
04:12		azawawi	Tene: im going through all of STD's errors/warnings and im trying to find quick fixes for them
04:13		azawawi	Tene: so if a user types a null //, what possible fixes is there?
04:14		Tene	in Perl 5, // means "the most-recent successful match"
04:14		Tene	That doesn't exist in Perl 6, afaik.
04:14		TimToady	which is /<prior>/
04:14		Tene	Ah.
04:14		Tene	As a special case, // in 'split' means "split on every character"
04:15		japhb	TimToady: Oh sure, have all the answers.
04:15		Tene	so you could look to see if it's being used in 'split'
04:15		TimToady	otherwise you want /<?>/ or some such
04:15		Tene	and suggest '' as an alternate
04:15		TimToady	'' works in split
04:15		Tene	can you check for 'split' in your quick fix thing?
04:16			twigil joined #perl6
04:16		azawawi	Tene: only if std warns/panics about it atm
04:18		azawawi	TimToady: i cannot replicate "Precedence too loose within ??!!; use ??()!! instead ".  my Perl $foo is weak :)
04:21			kst joined #perl6
04:22		azawawi	Tene: anything that generates warnings/errors can be a possible source for quick fixes (like PerlCritic for instance)
04:22		Tene	compile time only, or runtime also?
04:24		azawawi	Tene: currently, compile time.
04:25		azawawi	Tene: but there is no reason not to extend it to runtime also (in debugging mode for instance)...
04:28		azawawi	Tene: for instance we can quick fix a file that has trailing whitespace, hard tabs, inconsistent new lines,...
04:33		amoc	rakudo: multi sub infix:<,> { ... }
04:33		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
04:34		amoc	rakudo: multi sub infix:<,> { ... }; say "foooo~~"
04:34		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
04:36		azawawi	moritz_: any idea how to find a regex for a Perl 6 identifier?
04:38		azawawi	std: eval { };
04:38		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
04:40		azawawi	TimToady: regarding eval { }; should STD warn about it? see S04-control, ...Perl 6's C<eval> function only evaluates strings, not blocks.
04:40		azawawi	rakudo: eval { }
04:40		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed on call to 'eval'.␤in Main (/tmp/dwbqAuIcXH:2)␤»
04:40		azawawi	rakudo: eval { };
04:40		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed on call to 'eval'.␤in Main (/tmp/VDG6FGmOnn:2)␤»
04:40		azawawi	rakudo: eval "";
04:40		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
04:41		azawawi	rakudo seems to handle it better
04:48		eternaleye_	std: 42 ?? 1,2,3 Z 4,5,6 !! 1,2,3 X 4,5,6;
04:48		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Precedence too loose within ??!!; use ??()!! instead  at /tmp/SKCgZbyi2t line 1:␤------> 42 ?? 1,2,3 Z 4,5,6 !! 1,2,3 X 4,5,6;␤    expecting any of:␤ POST␤   infix or meta-infix␤        infix or meta-infix (with precedence tighter than item
04:48		p6eval	..assignment)…
04:49		eternaleye_	phenny: tell azawawi std: 42 ?? 1,2,3 Z 4,5,6 !! 1,2,3 X 4,5,6; # re Precedence too loose within ??!!
04:49		phenny	eternaleye_: I'll pass that on when azawawi is around.
04:50		eternaleye	(grep'able backlogs)++ (postgres \o command)++
04:52		amoc	rakudo: 42 ?? 1,2,3 Z 4,5,6 !! 1,2,3 X 4,5,6;
04:52		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Ternary error␤»
04:54		eternaleye	rakudo: 42 ?? ( 1,2,3 Z 4,5,6 ) !! ( 1,2,3 X 4,5,6 );
04:54		amoc	rakudo: 1 ?? 1,2 !! 1,2
04:54		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
04:54		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Ternary error␤»
04:55		eternaleye	rakudo: say( 1 ?? 1,2 !! 1,2 )
04:55		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Ternary error␤»
04:55		eternaleye	rakudo: say 42 ?? ( 1,2,3 Z 4,5,6 ) !! ( 1,2,3 X 4,5,6 );
04:55		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«142536␤»
04:58		amoc	"," has looser precedence then '??', '!!'. but it doesn't handle the error properly.
05:00		twigil	can somebody help me with parrot? it says "parrot revision r39599 required"
05:01		amoc	twigil: what are you trying to do?
05:03		amoc	if you are compiling rakudo, just type "perl ./Configure --gen-parrot" then "make".
05:03		twigil	the problem is that the machine i'm doing it on doesn.t have a direct connection to the internet
05:07		twigil	maybe i should get the newest version from svn
05:10		Tene	twigil: the issue is that the rakudo you have requires a newer parrot than you have
05:11		twigil	Tene: thanks
05:34			finanalyst joined #perl6
05:36			jjore_ joined #perl6
05:38			jjore_ joined #perl6
05:41			justatheory joined #perl6
05:49			twigil joined #perl6
06:07			kst joined #perl6
06:11			rfordinal joined #perl6
06:32			pmurias joined #perl6
06:40			user` joined #perl6
06:41			user` left #perl6
06:42		Matt-W	eww 419 scam in RT
06:47		moritz_	moved one to the spam queue, thanks
06:56			rfordinal joined #perl6
07:03			viklund joined #perl6
07:03			wayland76 joined #perl6
07:03			iblechbot joined #perl6
07:04		moritz_	rakudo: class A { }; say A.new() === A.new();
07:04		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«0␤»
07:07		moritz_	rakudo: class A { }; say A.new().WHAT === A.new().WHAT;
07:07		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«1␤»
07:17			baest joined #perl6
07:21			donaldh joined #perl6
07:35			ejs joined #perl6
07:40			beggars joined #perl6
07:42			azawawi joined #perl6
07:42		azawawi	hello
07:42		phenny	azawawi: 04:49Z <eternaleye_> tell azawawi std: 42 ?? 1,2,3 Z 4,5,6 !! 1,2,3 X 4,5,6; # re Precedence too loose within ??!!
07:43		azawawi	eternaleye: thx
07:43		azawawi	std: 42 ?? 1,2,3 Z 4,5,6 !! 1,2,3 X 4,5,6;
07:43		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Precedence too loose within ??!!; use ??()!! instead  at /tmp/WKIVxdegxO line 1:␤------> 42 ?? 1,2,3 Z 4,5,6 !! 1,2,3 X 4,5,6;␤    expecting any of:␤ POST␤   infix or meta-infix␤        infix or meta-infix (with precedence tighter than item
07:43		p6eval	..assignment)…
07:46			kst joined #perl6
07:47			DemoFreak joined #perl6
07:52			barney joined #perl6
07:54		amoc	azawawi: the error is the right behavior according to S03. but rakudo just dies. #66840
07:58			hanekomu joined #perl6
07:58			eMaX joined #perl6
08:01			rfordinal joined #perl6
08:01			rfordinal left #perl6
08:03		eternaleye	std: 1 ?? 1, 2 !! 3, 4;
08:03		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Precedence too loose within ??!!; use ??()!! instead  at /tmp/Cnnizs0gTs line 1:␤------> 1 ?? 1, 2 !! 3, 4;␤    expecting any of:␤    POST␤   infix or meta-infix␤        infix or meta-infix (with precedence tighter than item assignment)␤
08:03		p6eval	.. infix stopper␤    po…
08:04			masak joined #perl6
08:04		eternaleye	H H   masak
08:04		eternaleye	O   AI
08:04		masak	ahoj, scurvy parrotcamels!
08:05		moritz_	oh hai
08:05		moritz_	masak: I filled your role yesterday :-)
08:06		masak	moritz_: I would expect nothing less. :)
08:06		masak	moritz_: seems we'll have a second-ever #perl6-soc meeting on Wednesday 19:00 UCT, me and literal++.
08:07		moritz_	masak: I'll join, unless I forget it. Feel free to ping me on #perl6
08:07		masak	goodie.
08:07			azawawi joined #perl6
08:07		masak	I'll announce it shortly before, so others who might have forgotten can join, too.
08:08		azawawi	masak: Hello captain :)
08:09		moritz_	masak++
08:09		masak	azawawi: I'm not the captain, just one of the first mates. :)
08:09		azawawi	masak: so who's the captain here then? :)
08:09		masak	azawawi: who could it be? :)
08:10		* azawawi	wonders :)
08:10		moritz_	perl6 is a fleet, not just a ship
08:10		masak	an armada.
08:10		moritz_	obra_ used to be the admiral
08:10		azawawi	the borg... :)
08:11		moritz_	TimToady, pmichaud, ruoso are certainly captains of their ships
08:12		azawawi	so how can i match a perl 6 identifier in p5 regex correctly?
08:12		azawawi	i need it to change new Foo-Bar::C to Foo-Bar::C.new
08:12		masak	azawawi: is "identifier" here limited to namespaces?
08:13		azawawi	masak: just a quick hack to get "Use Perl 6 constructor instead of C++'s" quick fix working correctly
08:14		masak	is that a yes? :)
08:14		azawawi	yeah
08:14		masak	I'd imagine peeking in STD.pm and/or Rakudo's parser.pg might help here.
08:14		* moritz_	tries: (?:pL|_)w*(?:(?=pL|_)['-'(?:pL|L)w*)*
08:15		masak	o_O
08:15		azawawi	that's really complicated :)
08:15		moritz_	sorry,  (?:\pL|_)\w*(?:(?=\pL|_)['-](?:\pL|L)\w*)*
08:15		masak	Perl 5 is scary... :/
08:15		masak	at least use /x :P
08:16		azawawi	it is easy to write it in Perl 6 :)
08:16		* azawawi	tries it...
08:17		masak	is Pair parametrized like Hash?
08:18		moritz_	good question
08:24		azawawi	moritz_: thx and i think i need to extract that info from STD directly which would make it more robust and predictable than regex replacements
08:26			ejs joined #perl6
08:26		moritz_	:-)
08:31		masak	I'm back to thinking about grok and about naming/classifying/storing things.
08:31		masak	people are encouraged to help me think this through.
08:31		masak	as an example, I'm trying to enumerate all instances of '+' in the Perl 6 grammar.
08:32		masak	there's the binary op, and the prefix (numifying) op...
08:32		azawawi	masak: im thinking of going simple and adding topic labels/tags like in blogs...
08:32			ejs joined #perl6
08:32		masak	azawawi: yes. that sounds right. I hope to be able to co-opt Pod to do that.
08:33		masak	and then there's a postfix '+' in the grammar slang.
08:33		masak	I don't know how the latter is classified.
08:33		masak	STD.pm calls _something_ assertion:sym<+>. it might be that one.
08:34		masak	no, wait. it's gotta be quantifier:sym<+>.
08:34		masak	wonder what the assertion thing is.
08:35		azawawi	masak: like i said going simple :)
08:35		masak	yes, I'm all for simple too. that's my default design criterion. :)
08:36		masak	but I think using the grammatical categories of STD.pm would be a good way to label things.
08:36		masak	we need to do that anyway, to separate the different forms of operators.
08:38		azawawi	one thing while looking at STD, it does not go deeper than a literal; so it does not say this is a decimal_literal or a hex_literal...
08:40		azawawi	moritz_: when will rakudo be able to run STD.pm? what is stopping it at the moment?
08:40		masak	azawawi: I believe protoregexes is one big blocker.
08:40		masak	STD.pm uses them liberally.
08:41			meppl joined #perl6
08:42		moritz_	and LTM
08:43		masak	oh, right.
08:43		masak	azawawi: I bet the Rakudo ROADMAP details the things missing quite well.
08:45		moritz_	btw 1) I compiled parrot and rakudo with clang on llvm. it works when configured --without-gmp, but a few tests fail
08:46		moritz_	2) when I add Perl 6 multis of operators the setting, I get a Null PMC Acess in find_method
08:50		azawawi	std: eval { };
08:50		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
08:50		azawawi	rakudo: eval "this is right";
08:50		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
08:51		azawawi	is eval a routine (part of the settings)?
08:55		masak	azawawi: I sense a slight confusion of terminology in your question.
08:55		masak	azawawi: eval is a sub AFAIK, and hence a routine.
08:56		masak	azawawi: it's more common to talk about 'the setting' in singular, and I'm not sure it's specified what's part of it. by my understanding, that's up to individual implementations.
08:57		masak	in the case of Rakudo, eval is not in the setting.
08:57		masak	it's defined in src/builtins/control.pir
08:58		azawawi	masak: you sensed right :)
08:58		masak	(which, by the way, surprises me every time. I'd think a much likelier candidate would be src/builtins/eval.pir)
08:58		azawawi	rakudo: eval { };
08:58		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed on call to 'eval'.␤in Main (/tmp/lWAie5uf7g:2)␤»
09:00		moritz_	that's now written as try { ... };
09:01		moritz_	rakudo: multi eval(Int $a) { say $a}; eval 3;
09:01		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
09:02		azawawi	i know but shouldnt STD/rakudo flag it as an error or something?
09:02		moritz_	azawawi: it's a run time error
09:02		azawawi	moritz_: from S04, ...Perl 6's eval function only evaluates strings, not blocks
09:02		moritz_	which STD.pm doesn't handle in any way, and rakudo does ist (mostly) correctly
09:03		moritz_	azawawi: right, that's why you gute a "Parameter type check" failure
09:03		moritz_	azawawi: the parser doesn't know about eval, and doesn't have to
09:03		azawawi	moritz: i get it
09:03		* azawawi	hits his forehead
09:06		moritz_	it seems today is the first day of YAPC::NA
09:06		masak	moritz_++ # work on '...' operator
09:07		azawawi	@karma
09:07		lambdabot	You have a karma of 160
09:07		moritz_	masak: today I also tried to add multis for infix:<eqv> (which is already parsed), same failure
09:07			eMaX joined #perl6
09:07		masak	@karma
09:07		lambdabot	You have a karma of 224
09:08		moritz_	http://yapc10.org/yn2009/talk/2101 "Expect the unexpected." - like, a complete Perl 6 implementation?
09:08		masak	moritz_: yes, multis are not quite there yet.
09:10		moritz_	it severly limits the usefulness of the setting, sadly
09:16		moritz_	I think we've reached the point where most built-ins that can easily be written as subs and methods are already implemented
09:16		masak	some kind of saturation. maybe.
09:16		moritz_	next should be operators (blocking on said error) and implementation types
09:16		masak	a few things are eagerly awaiting laziness. :)
09:17		moritz_	I don't know what you need to get implementation types done
09:17			bsb joined #perl6
09:19		moritz_	masak: btw I saw your Druid+3D post. VeryB cool.
09:19		moritz_	s/B//
09:19		masak	:)
09:19		masak	I should have done that long ago.
09:19		masak	there's nothing especially tricky involved.
09:20		* viklund	wonders why S02 is so looong
09:21		moritz_	viklund_: because it explains the syntax, not just "bits and pieces"
09:21		masak	maybe we should rename it.
09:21		masak	S03, S05, and S06 are almost as long.
09:23		viklund	I decided I should read all the synopses at least once
09:23		viklund	I'm halfway through S02 now
09:23		masak	I did that when I was home for Christmas.
09:24		masak	boy, have things happened since then.
09:24		masak	I remember feeling a sincere urge to update S29 at the time.
09:24		masak	that was before S32.
09:24		viklund	;)
09:24		masak	I bet S32 is still incomplete, by the way.
09:28		viklund	incomplete in what sense?
09:28		masak	viklund: that things mentioned in the rest of the synopses are missing in S32.
09:28		masak	that's only a feeling, though.
09:28		viklund	ok, that's what I thought you meant
09:30			payload joined #perl6
09:32			kst joined #perl6
09:55			bacek joined #perl6
10:30			bacek joined #perl6
10:42			Whiteknight joined #perl6
10:59			mizioumt joined #perl6
11:02		masak	after the latest discussion on Str and Buf, can we say anything more about .pack and .unpack?
11:02		masak	should .unpack only be defined on Buf?
11:03		moritz_	presumably, yes
11:03		moritz_	and pack() should return a Buf
11:03		masak	right.
11:03			b_jonas joined #perl6
11:04		masak	could there be an .unpack() method on Str, if that Str knows how it was encoded, or if the encoding is provided as an argument?
11:04		moritz_	you mean one that does the same as $str.encode.unpack?
11:05		masak	essentially, yes.
11:05		masak	maybe that's overkill.
11:05		moritz_	the more I think about Perl 6 design the more I regret that multi dispatch doesn't have to consider named arguments
11:05		moritz_	they'd make some things so much neater
11:07		masak	moritz_: I looked through STD today. seems it uses multi dispatch on named arguments.
11:08		moritz_	masak: have an example?
11:08			zpmorgan joined #perl6
11:09		masak	moritz_: aye, the things starting at line 4809.
11:09		masak	that's multiple declarations of the method 'tweak', each with a different named parameter.
11:09		moritz_	aye
11:10		masak	(also, with a useless/inecplicable comment on top)
11:10		masak	"begin tweaks" -- yes, I can see that.
11:10		moritz_	that might be for gimme5
11:10		masak	oh.
11:11		masak	it's definitely some kind of magic.
11:12		moritz_	TimToady: see discussion above. multi method tweak(:$named_param) (found in STD.pm:4809) is not a requirement for Perl 6 - is it some kind of temporary hack?
11:13		masak	moritz_: your suspicion about gimme5 seems correct. on line 667 it matches against 'multi method tweak'.
11:14		moritz_	ok
11:14		b_jonas	heh
11:14		b_jonas	I just found an old quote from this channel on irseek
11:14		moritz_	please share
11:14		b_jonas	from 2007-01-27
11:15		b_jonas	"TimToady:  cbstream.rb is the irc gateway that's feeding PerlMonks' chatterbox to #cbstream on freenode."
11:15		b_jonas	"TimToady:  anyway, the implicit cbstream.rb challenge is at http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=596867"
11:15		b_jonas	"TimToady:  seems like a good chance to see how async {...} works"
11:15		b_jonas	"TimToady:  and, of course, to show how much prettier Perl 6 is... :)"
11:16		b_jonas	of course, since then it's become easier to write this kind of thing in perl5 because now Coro is more stable and there are three Coro-able http client modules, unlike when I started to write cbstream
11:17		b_jonas	I'm still unsure what language I shall use when I rewrite cbstream (it's a long-term plan only, vaporware)
11:17		b_jonas	probably whatever I fancy when I actually start rewriting it
11:18		araujo	http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpas[…]iew?id=6143#a6143
11:18		araujo	tiny stack based language i am working on
11:18		* araujo	just got quicksort working!
11:18		b_jonas	how does that work?
11:19		araujo	b_jonas, you mean?, the flow of the computation?
11:19		b_jonas	no, the language
11:19		araujo	oh
11:19		b_jonas	what do those punctuation mean
11:19		araujo	it is a stack based language
11:19		b_jonas	the %% and &% and &
11:19		araujo	right
11:19		araujo	it is what i call ... operator-message composition
11:19		b_jonas	+ appends two arrays, right?
11:19		araujo	correct
11:20		araujo	so, % is an operator that means 'dup' or duplicate the value in the stack
11:20		araujo	so
11:20		araujo	%%head means , dup dup head
11:20		araujo	& is swap
11:20		araujo	and so on
11:20		b_jonas	oh
11:21		b_jonas	and what does the (<) o do?
11:21		b_jonas	wait, I think o is composition
11:21		araujo	the language is what I call .. a stack based object oriented language
11:21		b_jonas	and you push that function for filter?
11:21		araujo	correct b_jonas !
11:21		b_jonas	or something
11:21		araujo	correct
11:21		b_jonas	but what's bk then
11:22		araujo	what i am about to explain
11:22		araujo	the language works with blocks
11:22		b_jonas	oh, it's postscript-like
11:22		araujo	like the smalltalk blocks
11:22		b_jonas	so you can just use a constant
11:22			donaldh joined #perl6
11:22		araujo	blocks are units of delayed computations
11:22		b_jonas	and composing means making a function of two executable objects
11:22		b_jonas	makes sense
11:22		araujo	right
11:22		araujo	:)
11:22		b_jonas	funny
11:23			kst joined #perl6
11:23		b_jonas	and how does the definition part works? is it the dot that assigns the function to the name qsort or something?
11:23		araujo	blocks are kind of delayed computations delayed ... they are also the way to define 'functions' and stuff
11:23		araujo	correct b_jonas
11:23		araujo	qsort [ .... ] .
11:24		araujo	the [ ] is multi-line block
11:24		b_jonas	does this still work if qsort already has the same value?
11:24		araujo	the ( ) is single-line block
11:24		araujo	they are the same
11:24		b_jonas	or so you have to quote qsort in that case?
11:24		b_jonas	hmm, [] and () is the same?
11:24		b_jonas	strange
11:24		araujo	yeah, because of the nature of the language
11:24		araujo	well
11:25		araujo	[ ] is for multi-line
11:25		araujo	( ) single line
11:25		araujo	you can get that quicksort example in a single line with ( )
11:25		b_jonas	so how do variables work?
11:26			lichtkind joined #perl6
11:26		araujo	well, so far ... the language contains what i call links ... it links a stack to a specific name
11:26		b_jonas	I don't really like this postscript-like execution when data can just stand in stead of code and is pushed
11:27		araujo	i am mixing some ideas here, ideas from stack based languages and object-oriented languages
11:27		araujo	everything is an object, and the main object representation is a Stack
11:27		araujo	when you say something like:
11:27		araujo	qsort [ ] .
11:27		b_jonas	so what's the plan? you write an interpreter then put up an evalbot and evangelize everyone to the language by showing with it how some programs can be written more easily in this language? (great way to get kicked out of all channels)
11:28		araujo	qsort is a symbol pointing to a stack containing a block
11:28		b_jonas	and then... how do you call that function on a list or array or something?
11:28		araujo	not really interested to .. evangelize really , just commenting in the channels i know there are people interested on designing languages
11:28		b_jonas	how do you even create an array and print it
11:28		araujo	i am not really interested on competition , but fun
11:29		araujo	like this:
11:29		moritz_	araujo++ # very nice attitude
11:29		araujo	{ 2 3 87 3 4 387 38 2 } qsort
11:29		araujo	then you get the list sorted
11:29		araujo	moritz_, :)
11:29		masak	moritz_: we'll soon be hitting 400 new/open tickets! \o/
11:29		azawawi	std: my @a; @a[-1];
11:29		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of [-1] subscript to access final element; in Perl 6 please use [*-1] instead at /tmp/CGm1vUDph7 line 1:␤------> my @a; @a[-1];␤FAILED 00:02 38m␤»
11:30		azawawi	std: my @a; @a[ -1 ];
11:30		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 38m␤»
11:30		moritz_	masak: I'll do my very best
11:30		masak	:)
11:30		masak	Geburtstag.
11:30		azawawi	moritz_: does whitespace matter in [-1]  warning?
11:30		azawawi	rakudo: my @a; @a[ -1 ];
11:30		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
11:30		moritz_	I've always wondered if that message doesn't collide with custom array indexes
11:30		azawawi	rakudo: my @a; @a[-1];
11:30		masak	std: use v5; my $x = 'foo '; $x .= 'bar';
11:31		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
11:31		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤  Possible obsolete use of .= as append operator; in Perl 6 please use ~= instead at /tmp/rG4gukX47o line 1:␤------> use v5; my $x = 'foo '; $x .= 'bar';␤ok 00:02 37m␤»
11:31		moritz_	azawawi: it seems to, yes
11:31		azawawi	so it is an std bug right? :)
11:31		moritz_	I'm not sure.
11:31		azawawi	std: my @a; @a[ -1];
11:31		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 38m␤»
11:32		azawawi	std: my @a; @a[-1 ];
11:32		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 38m␤»
11:32		moritz_	it might be intential
11:32		azawawi	std: my @a; @a[ -1 ];
11:32		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 38m␤»
11:32		masak	intentional, even.
11:32		moritz_	aye :-)
11:32		masak	TimToady: bug above?
11:32		TimToady	nope
11:32		masak	whoa!
11:32		azawawi	really? :)
11:32		masak	don't sneak up on me like that!
11:33		TimToady	which one?
11:33		TimToady	the v5 one is unimpl
11:33		masak	@a[-1] giving a warning, but not @a[ -1 ]
11:33		lambdabot	Unknown command, try @list
11:33		TimToady	yes, that's intentional
11:33		masak	lambdabot: oh, shut up.
11:33		masak	TimToady: what's the rationale?
11:33		* azawawi	listens
11:33		moritz_	allowing @a[ -1 ] when custom array indexes are defined?
11:34		TimToady	just leaving wiggle room
11:34		TimToady	could generalize later when we do more semantic analysis
11:34		masak	not sure I understand. wiggle room for making mistakes?
11:34		TimToady	but for now, any bogus p5 code will likely use [-1]
11:35		moritz_	TimToady: so how's YAPC going?
11:35		TimToady	and we're only dealing in probabilities
11:35		moritz_	did you alread hold your keynote?
11:35		TimToady	I'm still writing my talk, so I shouldn't be here
11:35		moritz_	oh :-)
11:35		masak	don't let us keep you. :)
11:35		TimToady	but if you want to be on the screen in a bit under two hours...
11:36		TimToady	in fact, I'm giving a talk about error messages
11:36		masak	yes, STD.pm is leading in the field on that.
11:36		TimToady	so I might show std: to them
11:37		moritz_	uhm, it looks much better on an ordinary terminal
11:37		TimToady	I went through all the panics, obs, worrys to see if I could actually produce them
11:37		TimToady	so think of it as a down payment on some error testing
11:37		masak	TimToady: you should have a test suite or something.
11:37		TimToady	what a concept
11:37		TimToady	but it's hard for an error message to run itself and spit out "ok"  :)
11:38		moritz_	throw some X::Syntax::Redeclaration error objects or whatever
11:38		masak	ah, the old 'if you try to fail and fail, what have you done?' paradox.
11:38		moritz_	and then type-check
11:39		TimToady	moritz_: std does not execute anything, how can it throw? :)
11:39		moritz_	TimToady: with die() :-)
11:40		moritz_	it won't be catchable from within Perl 6 code for now
11:40		masak	I'm running teststd right now. I'm getting a few failures.
11:40		moritz_	but from the perl 5 code which runs STD.pm
11:41			payload1 joined #perl6
11:44			s1n1 joined #perl6
11:45		moritz_	rakudo: say 1
11:45		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
11:48			Whiteknight joined #perl6
11:48		moritz_	rakudo: sub postfix:<..>(Str $x) { $x.subst(rx{ / <-[/]>+ $ }, '') }; say "/foo/bar/baz"..
11:48		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "(rx{ / <-["␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
11:49		moritz_	rakudo: sub postfix:<..>(Str $x) { $x.subst(rx{ \/ <-[/]>+ $ }, '') }; say "/foo/bar/baz"..
11:49		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ".."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
11:49		moritz_	hm. ENOLTM (LTM = longest token matching)
11:49		moritz_	der probiert das als "string". und dann methodenname zu parsen
11:49			ejs1 joined #perl6
11:50		moritz_	sorrz, wrong language
11:50		moritz_	and wrong channel :-)
11:50		moritz_	std: sub postfix:<..>(Str $x) { $x.subst(rx{ \/ <-[/]>+ $ }, '') }; say "/foo/bar/baz"..
11:50		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«ok 00:06 50m␤»
11:51			twigil joined #perl6
11:51		b_jonas	std: sub parentdir(Str $x) { $x.subst(rx{ \/ <-[/]>+ $ }, '') }; say parentdir("/foo/bar/baz")
11:51		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«ok 00:04 42m␤»
11:52		moritz_	rakudo: sub parentdir(Str $x) { $x.subst(rx{ \/ <-[/]>+ $ }, '') }; say parentdir("/foo/bar/baz")
11:52		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«/foo/bar␤»
11:55			hanekomu joined #perl6
11:57		b_jonas	I guess in perl6 you'll be actually able to define a greeting-suffix context so the statement 'good localtime' can work because good evaluates its argument in greeting-suffix context
11:58		wayland76	I had a ENOLTM a bit ago too, I suspect; it didn't no proto token whatever rules, and IIRC those depend on LTM :)
11:59		azawawi	std: rand(10);
11:59		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of rand(N); in Perl 6 please use N.rand or (1..N).pick instead at /tmp/XxGfKnF6uX line 1:␤------> rand(10);␤FAILED 00:02 35m␤»
11:59		azawawi	std: 1..10..rand;
11:59		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤".." is not associative at /tmp/1xChtiH2ti line 1:␤------> 1..10..rand;␤    expecting any of:␤        infix__S_364DotDot␤       whitespace␤FAILED 00:02 36m␤»
12:00		azawawi	std: 1..10.rand;
12:00		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
12:02		masak	azawawi: though that parses as 1..(10.rand), methinks.
12:02		azawawi	masak: i noticed
12:03		b_jonas	I guess so
12:03		* azawawi	prepares another batch of quick fixes for release :)
12:03		b_jonas	that's why you have to write (1..10).each in ruby all the time
12:03		masak	method-call '.' binds really tightly. I guess that's sane.
12:04		b_jonas	yep
12:04		b_jonas	and .. has to bind weakly so 1 .. $x - 1 works
12:04		moritz_	right
12:04		b_jonas	though there you'd just write 1 ..^ $x of course
12:05		moritz_	that's what I just wanted to write, but b_jonas was faster :-)
12:05		b_jonas	but in general you sometimes want + and - stuff
12:05		moritz_	b_jonas: note that that's not the same
12:05		moritz_	rakudo: say 1..2 ~~ 2.5
12:05		azawawi	another interesting whitespace case
12:05		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«0␤»
12:05		azawawi	std: rand( 10 )
12:05		moritz_	rakudo: say 1..^3 ~~ 2.5
12:05		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
12:05		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«0␤»
12:05		moritz_	uhm, shouldn't the last one say 1 instead?
12:05		b_jonas	raduko: 1..5 ~~ 2.5
12:06		azawawi	TimToady: rand(10) and rand( 10 ) give different warnings
12:06		masak	moritz_: no, I don't think so.
12:06		b_jonas	rakudo: 1..5 ~~ 2.5
12:06		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
12:06		moritz_	rakudo: say 1..5 ~~ 2.5
12:06		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«0␤»
12:06		moritz_	rakudo: say 1..5 ~~ 2
12:06		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«0␤»
12:07		moritz_	rakudo: say 2 ~~ 1..5
12:07		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«1␤»
12:07		moritz_	rakudo: say 2.5 ~~ 1..5
12:07		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«1␤»
12:07		moritz_	rakudo: say 2.5 ~~ 1..^3
12:07		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«1␤»
12:07		moritz_	that was the problem
12:07		moritz_	the range has to go on the right
12:07		moritz_	("of course" :-)
12:07		b_jonas	oh yeah, perl6' ~~ works the other way from ruby's ===
12:07		b_jonas	rakuso: 2.5 ~~ 1..2
12:08		b_jonas	rakudo: say 2.5 ~~ 1..2
12:08		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«0␤»
12:09		azawawi	std: rand(10)
12:09		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of rand(N); in Perl 6 please use N.rand or (1..N).pick instead at /tmp/NCBYyoJ49q line 1:␤------> rand(10)␤FAILED 00:02 35m␤»
12:09		azawawi	std: rand( 10 )
12:09		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
12:09		azawawi	std: rand( 10)
12:09		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
12:09		azawawi	std: rand(10 )
12:09		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of rand(N); in Perl 6 please use N.rand or (1..N).pick instead at /tmp/LmQIg9HwJN line 1:␤------> rand(10 )␤FAILED 00:02 35m␤»
12:12		* azawawi	thinks leading whitespace causes warning to go on/off in rand(10)
12:13		azawawi	std: rand (10)
12:13		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Syntax error (two terms in a row?) at /tmp/WyLbHPgTte line 1:␤------> rand (10)␤    expecting any of:␤        infix or meta-infix␤      infix stopper␤    standard stopper␤ statement modifier loop␤  term__S_296rand␤  terminator␤FAILED 00:02
12:13		p6eval	..36m␤»
12:16		moritz_	std: ~ 1
12:16		p6eval	std 27168: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
12:18		masak	running teststd takes 31 minutes on my machine.
12:19		masak	I get failures in 8 test files.
12:19		moritz_	I'm looking at these now
12:19		moritz_	some of them seem to be reall problems iin STD.pm
12:19		moritz_	some are plain sytanx errors
12:19		masak	aye.
12:20		masak	the one in t/spec//S06-advanced_subroutine_features/stub.t is a member of the former set, I believe.
12:20		moritz_	aye
12:23		pugs_svn	r27169 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fix some problems found by STD.pm, TimToady++
12:25		Matt-W	Afternoon
12:26		* masak	tips hat
12:32		wayland76	rakudo: slurp("filename"};
12:32		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "(\"filename"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
12:32		wayland76	rakudo: slurp("filename");
12:32		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Unable to open filehandle from path 'filename'␤in Main (/tmp/Z8xqkrnCfh:2)␤»
12:33		moritz_	oh, slurp() is another one that should be forbidden in safe mode
12:33			bacek_ joined #perl6
12:33		wayland76	Hmm.  Looks like I need to update my rakudo again :(
12:33			Whiteknight joined #perl6
12:33		wayland76	I was just checking whether it gives a Null PMC access like mine does
12:36			zamolxes joined #perl6
12:37		wayland76	pmichaud: Regarding the makefile change, can you send me some kind of a link to your branch?  Preferably to somewhere where I can get it in standard diff format, but whatever works for you
12:37		wayland76	(I'm presuming here that he backlogs his own handle at least)
12:39		moritz_	git checkout origin/ins
12:39		moritz_	git diff master
12:41			pmurias joined #perl6
12:48			payload joined #perl6
12:49			alester joined #perl6
12:53			kst joined #perl6
12:56		azawawi	std: (1 == 1) ?? 1 :: 2
12:57		p6eval	std 27169: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Please use !! rather than :: at /tmp/OzLBOc5wlv line 1:␤------> (1 == 1) ?? 1 :: 2␤    expecting any of:␤     infix or meta-infix␤      infix stopper␤    standard stopper␤ terminator␤FAILED 00:02 36m␤»
12:57		azawawi	std: (1 == 1) ?? 1 !! 2
12:57		p6eval	std 27169: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
12:57		azawawi	std: #(1 == 1) ?? 1 !! 2
12:57		p6eval	std 27169: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Syntax error (two terms in a row?) at /tmp/Fv7KLlnU9v line 1:␤------> #(1 == 1) ?? 1 !! 2␤    expecting any of:␤      infix or meta-infix␤      infix stopper␤    infix_prefix_meta_operator␤       standard stopper␤ statement modifier loop␤
12:57		p6eval	..terminator␤FAILED 00:03…
12:57			s1n1 joined #perl6
12:58		azawawi	rakudo: (1==1) ?? 1 !! 2
12:58		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
12:58		azawawi	rakudo: #(1==1) ?? 1 !! 2
12:58		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Can't use embedded columns in column 1 at line 2, near "(1==1) ?? "␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
12:58		azawawi	rakudo: # (1==1) ?? 1 !! 2
12:58		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
12:58		azawawi	what's wrong with #(1 == 1) ?? 1 :: 2 ?
12:59		azawawi	shouldnt it be a comment?
13:00		azawawi	moritz_: what's wrong with #(1 == 1) ?? 1 :: 2'
13:00		azawawi	std: #(1 == 1) ??
13:01		p6eval	std 27169: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Can't understand next input--giving up at /tmp/U5c7wHQE8M line 1:␤------> ␤    expecting noun␤FAILED 00:02 37m␤»
13:01		azawawi	std: #(1 == 1) ?
13:01		p6eval	std 27169: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Can't understand next input--giving up at /tmp/zvHHiyKdAn line 1:␤------> ␤    expecting noun␤FAILED 00:02 37m␤»
13:01		moritz_	azawawi: no, #( is forbidden at start of line
13:01		moritz_	azawawi: because it's ambigous - it could be either a line or a block comment
13:02		azawawi	moritz_: but the error message was obscure
13:03		azawawi	so in perl 6, if i want to "comment error line" quick fix; the best solution is to add a # and then a space before it...
13:04		moritz_	azawawi: right
13:04		moritz_	(to both)
13:04			frew joined #perl6
13:04		azawawi	moritz_: where can i find more docs about that?
13:05		moritz_	azawawi: S02, I'd assume
13:06		masak	S02:166.
13:07			gbacon joined #perl6
13:07		masak	I've gotten into the habit of commenting out lines with two '##' instead of just one.
13:07		dalek	rakudo: 6eb3554 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
13:07		dalek	rakudo: spectest-progress.csv update: 404 files, 11532 passing, 4 failing
13:07		dalek	rakudo: Failure summary:
13:07		dalek	rakudo:     S12-enums/basic.rakudo 27 - short name of the enum without parenthesis is an enum
13:07		dalek	rakudo:     S32-num/rand.t aborted 3 test(s)
13:07		dalek	rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakud[…]c64d315fb0156e93b
13:07		masak	every time I do that, I think "well, _I_ don't mind, but boy are people in general going to hate this..."
13:08		masak	then again, it's not like I have an alternate solution.
13:13		pmurias	TimToady: may i put a .gitignore in src/perl6?
13:15		moritz_	somehow the newer GD::Graph versions don't seem to use the full width of the drawing area
13:19		dalek	rakudo: 0677565 | moritz++ | tools/progress-graph.pl:
13:19		dalek	rakudo: [tools/progress-graph.pl] better label spacing
13:19		dalek	rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakud[…]06fe696b079c036c8
13:19		masak	moritz_++
13:20		masak	I've been looking at the progress graph and thinking about that spacing from time to time. moritz_ JFDIs.
13:20		moritz_	actually I've been anoyed for quite some time now.
13:21		moritz_	most annoying is that without any option GD::Graph tries to plots *all* captions
13:21		pmurias	rakudo: &infix:<\<>
13:21		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
13:22		masak	moritz_: aye, that's an ungood default.
13:24			skids joined #perl6
13:25			synth joined #perl6
13:25			sitaram joined #perl6
13:27			synthEEEE joined #perl6
13:27		s1n1	masak, moritz_: has there been an effort to use smolder instead?
13:28		moritz_	s1n: I think I saw that that on somebody's TODO list
13:28		masak	rakudo: class Month {}
13:28		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df:  ( no output )
13:29		masak	std: subset A of Int;
13:29		p6eval	std 27169: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
13:29		masak	rakudo: subset A of Int;
13:29		p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "of Int;"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
13:29		* masak	submits rakudobug
13:30			Whiteknight joined #perl6
13:39		b_jonas	so how many of you are on that YAPC::NA conference/
13:39			sitaram left #perl6
13:40		* kolibrie	is at YAPC::NA
13:41		* s1n_yapc	obviously
13:41		* moritz_	not, sadly
13:42		s1n_yapc	moritz_: if no one is working it, i might be interested
13:42		* masak	also not, also sadly
13:43		pmurias	moritz_: will you be at YAPC::EU?
13:44		azawawi	std: 42 ?? 1,2,3 Z 4,5,6 !! 1,2,3 X 4,5,6;
13:44		p6eval	std 27169: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Precedence too loose within ??!!; use ??()!! instead  at /tmp/9kk3J7TVFt line 1:␤------> 42 ?? 1,2,3 Z 4,5,6 !! 1,2,3 X 4,5,6;␤    expecting any of:␤ POST␤   infix or meta-infix␤        infix or meta-infix (with precedence tighter than item
13:44		p6eval	..assignment)…
13:44		moritz_	pmurias: also not, also sadly
13:44		azawawi	std: 42 ?? 1,2,3 Z 4,5,6 !! (1,2,3 X 4,5,6);
13:44		p6eval	std 27169: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Precedence too loose within ??!!; use ??()!! instead  at /tmp/wGnxCKdDpG line 1:␤------> 42 ?? 1,2,3 Z 4,5,6 !! (1,2,3 X 4,5,6);␤    expecting any of:␤       POST␤   infix or meta-infix␤        infix or meta-infix (with precedence tighter
13:44		p6eval	..than item assignmen…
13:44		pmurias	moritz_: why?
13:44		azawawi	std: 42 ?? (1,2,3 Z 4,5,6) !! 1,2,3 X 4,5,6;
13:44		p6eval	std 27169: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
13:44		masak	moritz_: that _is_ sad. how will we ever meet if you keep not showing up at conventions? :)
13:45		moritz_	pmurias: time constraints :(
13:45		moritz_	masak: I'll try very hard next year, I promise!
13:45		masak	you'd better.
13:45		masak	these things add up, you know.
13:45		masak	:P
13:46		moritz_	and I did show up at german perl workshop '08, and met jnthn
13:46			twigil joined #perl6
13:48		masak	that's something, I guess.
13:51			bacek_ joined #perl6
13:52			KyleHa joined #perl6
13:57			PacoLinux joined #perl6
14:04			meppuru joined #perl6
14:05		finanalyst	moritz_: i found GD::Graph had problems. are you porting to perl6?
14:06		azawawi	masak: List of new quick fixes so far: http://padre.perlide.org/trac/[…]ument.pm?rev=5470
14:07		moritz_	finanalyst: no, I'm using to generaate graphs :-)
14:07		finanalyst	moritz_: i also tried the procedure on your blog to make an executable. it did not work, even in rakudo directory.
14:08		moritz_	finanalyst: in particular the one on rakudo.de is not wide enough
14:08		finanalyst	moritz_: for graphs, i found ploticus to be easier
14:08		moritz_	finanalyst: I know, that broke a few days after I posted it :-(.
14:08		azawawi	finanalyst: http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/[…]lay.html?id=65994
14:09		masak	azawawi: nice! KUTGW.
14:09		azawawi	moritz_: not fair, i wrote gui for that :)
14:10		masak	no-one said it would be fair.
14:10		finanalyst	but precompiling modules into PIR does work!
14:11		finanalyst	i really would like some way of generating graphical output from perl6.
14:12		finanalyst	presently, i generate a ploticus script, then run it
14:12		moritz_	like, rendering SVG? :-)
14:12		b_jonas	how about gnuplot?
14:12			iblechbot joined #perl6
14:12		moritz_	there are opengl bindings for parrot
14:12		moritz_	with some effort they should be usable from Perl 6
14:12			ejs joined #perl6
14:13		b_jonas	eg. http://www.perlmonks.com/index.pl?node_id=740055
14:13		* finanalyst	looking to see opengl bindings
14:14		finanalyst	b_jonas: to use gnuplot from perl6, you need to generate a script, then run the script. I found ploticus easier to use to generate what I needed.
14:15		TimToady	everyone say hi to YAPC::NA
14:15		kolibrie	hi YAPC!
14:15		s1n_yapc	big screen hello
14:15		moritz_	rakudo: say "OH HAI"
14:16		p6eval	rakudo 067756: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
14:16		s1n_yapc	moritz_: now you're at yapc::na
14:16		masak	YAPC: \o
14:16		moritz_	s1n_yapc: kinda.
14:16		finanalyst	hi YAPC::NA
14:16		pmurias	hi ;)
14:16		b_jonas	hi YAPC
14:16		masak	weather is beautiful, wish we were there.
14:16		frew	Hello YAPC!
14:17			deafferret joined #perl6
14:17		moritz_	you see, we're not only lurkers in here :-)
14:17		deafferret	HI YAPC! (jhannah)
14:17		deafferret	oh, bummer. missed the projector
14:17		masak	moritz_: or, at least, this is how you bring the lurkers out. :)
14:17		s1n_yapc	moritz_: that's right, some of us like to be annoying on the big screen :)
14:17		frew	haha, sucker
14:17		deafferret	why isn't this on irc.perl.org?
14:17		masak	deafferret: for hysterical raisins.
14:18		moritz_	deafferret: 1) historical reasons 2) to not encapsulate ourselves too much
14:18			pmichaud joined #perl6
14:18		pmurias	freenode is considered friendlier
14:18		masak	hi pm.
14:18		moritz_	ask audreyt, she created it (I think)
14:18			wigfield joined #perl6
14:18		frew	...
14:18		b_jonas	I think it depends on where the evalbots are
14:19		b_jonas	well in the start at least
14:19		moritz_	my evalbot is both on freenode on irc.perl.org, so that's not an issue
14:20		masak	moritz_: I'm not 100% sure, but I think #perl6 might predate audreyt.
14:20			stDavid joined #perl6
14:20		masak	but I wasn't there in the very-very beginning, just after a month or so of audreyt's appearance.
14:20		b_jonas	I see
14:21			alester joined #perl6
14:21		s1n_yapc	is TimToady is going to code in his keynote?
14:22		masak	s1n_yapc: he said he's to talk about errors.
14:23		KyleHa	I hope talking about errors isn't a mistake.
14:23			payload1 joined #perl6
14:24		azawawi	is there going to be a video of TimToady's speech?
14:25		finanalyst	is it online now?
14:25		moritz_	maybe on yapc.tv
14:25			ejs1 joined #perl6
14:26		azawawi	cool
14:26			payload joined #perl6
14:27			donaldh left #perl6
14:28			kst joined #perl6
14:28		finanalyst	doesnt seem to be
14:28		b_jonas	maybe he'll upload some text or slides
14:30			rfordinal joined #perl6
14:33		finanalyst	i'm trying to use parrot from the rakudo installation, specifically to run ./parrot examples/opengl/shapes.pir but getting "error:imcc:No such file or directory". Should I have something else installed?
14:35		moritz_	finanalyst: that seems like a bug... care to ask on #parrot?
14:35		s1n_yapc	masak: yup, error messages
14:36		finanalyst	moritz_: just checking. trying to find an opengl example that works
14:37		moritz_	opengl_defines.pasm is missing.
14:38		moritz_	finanalyst: ah, it might get generated by Configure.pl if it detects your opengl installation correctly
14:38			ejs1 joined #perl6
14:38		finanalyst	so if I dont have it, then opengl not detected?
14:39			sitaram joined #perl6
14:39			ruoso joined #perl6
14:39		moritz_	presumably.
14:39			sitaram left #perl6
14:40		moritz_	auto::opengl -        Does your platform support OpenGL....................no.
14:40		moritz_	on one of my machines
14:40		moritz_	which is why there's no such file
14:41		pmurias	ruoso: hi
14:41		ruoso	Hello!
14:41		finanalyst	i have ubuntu and seem to have opengl installed
14:41		finanalyst	but not dev files.
14:42		masak	announcement: proto, the extremely humble installer, now defaults to fetching Rakudo Pittsburgh.
14:44		masak	,,,and it fails (!) to install on my box.
14:44		ruoso	hi pmurias
14:44		masak	that's not good.
14:46		s1n_yapc	rakudo: #{ }
14:46		p6eval	rakudo 067756: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
14:46		s1n_yapc	ouch
14:46		s1n_yapc	no build?
14:47		masak	s1n_yapc: it comes and goes, rebuilds every hour.
14:49		s1n_yapc	masak: it should build elsewhere and copy over the old one
14:49		masak	s1n_yapc: indeed. patches welcome.
14:53		s1n_yapc	masak: what exactly would i be patching?
14:53		masak	s1n_yapc: the build process, I guess.
14:54		masak	but it occurs to me now that those build scripts might not be puclicly accessible.
14:55		pugs_svn	r27170 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] infix + < == and != are multis
14:55		pugs_svn	r27170 | pmurias++ | started creating Test.pm
14:55		pugs_svn	r27170 | pmurias++ | started working on ModuleLoader
14:55		s1n_yapc	masak: then i can't patch anything
14:55		ruoso	pmurias, that looks promising ;)
14:55		masak	s1n_yapc: no. sorry, I was too quick. please patch something else. :)
14:56		masak	s1n_yapc: in return, I'll try and have a look at the build process.
14:56		ruoso	pmurias, you added the .so in svn
14:56		s1n_yapc	masak: that's fine, i dont have a feather account, so i can't really help
14:56		s1n_yapc	not without the source anyways
14:56		masak	s1n_yapc: p6eval isn't on feather.
14:57		s1n_yapc	masak: where is it?
14:57			sri_kraih_ joined #perl6
14:57		pugs_svn	r27171 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] .so files have no place in the repo
14:57		masak	on timtowtdi.org
14:57		s1n_yapc	wow, never knew about that site
14:58		pmurias	ruoso: i'm having my uni end-of-term exams atm so my gsoc project is progressing slowly atm
14:58		ruoso	pmurias, I think it's ok... since we're doing much better than I initially expected
15:01		pmurias	in a couple of days i'll have much more time so it should progress faster
15:02		ruoso	pmurias, btw... Test.pm won't need to have the $LexicalPrelude{...} thing
15:03		ruoso	I think at the time we have Test.pm, we'll also have "is export" working too
15:03		TimToady	rakudo: say "\c[WHITE SMILING FACE]"
15:03		p6eval	rakudo 067756: OUTPUT«☺␤»
15:03		Whiteknight	TimToady++
15:03		phenny	Whiteknight: 21 Jun 12:56Z <masak> tell Whiteknight yes, I'm coming to YAPC::EU. will do a talk about Web.pm.
15:05			ejs0 joined #perl6
15:05		* ruoso	moved back from Lisbon to Brasil right before a YAPC there... what a shame...
15:11			hercynium joined #perl6
15:13		pmurias	ruoso: that Test.pm works a bit
15:14		ruoso	pmurias, I see... but I mean... you're installing the symbols in the CORE...
15:14			nihiliad joined #perl6
15:19		skids	ruoso: FWIW, on smop install, you can get most of the libs in debian now through libhugs packages.  Sid currently has some version issues with the "network" library, but almost there without any local packages.
15:20		ruoso	skids, there are only two libs that are installed locally I think
15:20		ruoso	zip
15:20			donaldh joined #perl6
15:21		skids	zip can be got by package now.
15:21		ruoso	and some other I don't recall right now
15:21		ruoso	ah... right... in sid...
15:22		skids	Right now the only thing holding back pure-package install is that libghc6-network requires an older version of ghc than what is installed, and ghc won't find the hugs version of "network" library for some reason.
15:23		pmurias	skids: doesn't libhugs imply hugsiness?
15:23		skids	There's "bundle" packages that autoinstall stuff.
15:24			deafferret left #perl6
15:25		pmurias	hugs and ghc are seperate implementations, and i can't imagine them being binary compatible
15:26		pmurias	there seems to be a lighc-utf8-string-dev package and that's the only library we use
15:27		finanalyst	moritz_: ping
15:29		skids	pmurias: well, if that's the case then someone screwed up because pugs config picks up hugs libraries after the packages are installed.
15:30		* skids	hasn't actually had time to fix the network lib and try a build yet.
15:30		pmurias	maybe the hugs ones are not compiled...
15:32		pmurias	ruoso: re Test exporting stuff do we have the way it should be implemented worked out?
15:33		ruoso	pmurias, there's still the issue about the pacakge
15:35			rfordinal joined #perl6
15:36		skids	ruoso: you won't take offense if I clean up some english grammar as I read through things, right? :-)
15:37		ruoso	skids, on the contraire... I'd appreciate it
15:42			justatheory joined #perl6
15:44		pmurias	skids: what are you reading through?
15:47			kst joined #perl6
15:54			stDavid joined #perl6
15:56			rindolf joined #perl6
15:56		rindolf	Hi all.
15:56		rindolf	In Firefox 3.0.x the CSS here is all wrong - http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo
15:56		rindolf	On Linux at least.
15:56		rindolf	I mean in the buttons at the upper nav-menu.
16:04			azawawi joined #perl6
16:09		PerlJam	rindolf: It looks fine for me until you get a window below a certain width, then it looks messed up.
16:11		rindolf	PerlJam: oh, I see.
16:11		rindolf	Well, my browser window is pretty wide at the moment.
16:12		PerlJam	that certain width looks to be about 1005 pixels.  Above that, it looks fine.
16:13			Psyche^ joined #perl6
16:14			rfordinal joined #perl6
16:17		azawawi	what's the difference between +> and ~> ?
16:18		azawawi	std: 2 >> 1;
16:18		p6eval	std 27171: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> instead at /tmp/DkWqQmpNKQ line 1:␤------> 2 >> 1;␤FAILED 00:02 36m␤»
16:18		azawawi	rakudo: 2 +> 1;
16:18		p6eval	rakudo 067756:  ( no output )
16:19		azawawi	rakudo: say 2 +> 1;
16:19		p6eval	rakudo 067756: OUTPUT«1␤»
16:19		azawawi	rakudo: say 2 ~> 1;
16:19			mtkatwork joined #perl6
16:19			mtkatwork left #perl6
16:19		p6eval	rakudo 067756: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub infix:~>␤»
16:22		pmurias	azawawi: one is a numeric and the other string bit shift
16:23		azawawi	pmurias: can u give me an example of the second one?
16:24		pmurias	rakudo: say 100 ~> 2
16:24		p6eval	rakudo 067756: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub infix:~>␤»
16:25		pmurias	azawawi: it shifts all the bits in a string
16:25		pmurias	pugs: say 100 ~> 2
16:25		p6eval	pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
16:25		pmurias	pugs: say 100 +> 2
16:25		p6eval	pugs: OUTPUT«25␤»
16:26			donaldh left #perl6
16:27		azawawi	pugs: say 1000 ~> 2
16:27		p6eval	pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
16:27		azawawi	pugs: say "1000" ~> 2
16:27		p6eval	pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
16:27		azawawi	pugs: say "1000" ~> 0
16:27		p6eval	pugs: OUTPUT«1000␤»
16:27		azawawi	pugs: say "1000" ~> 1
16:27		p6eval	pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
16:29			stDavid joined #perl6
16:30		azawawi	pmurias: thx
16:33		moritz_	finanalyst: pong
16:33		finanalyst	moritz_: thanx for responding.
16:33		finanalyst	moritz_: about OpenGL and parrot, there is no one on #parrot to talk to :(
16:34		finanalyst	could you help a little?
16:35		finanalyst	i got a window to open with one of the parrot examples, but nothing appeared in the window
16:36		moritz_	finanalyst: I don't really know much about it... a mail to the parrot list (including output from Configure.pl) might be more helpful
16:37		finanalyst	ok, i'll do that.
16:41			ejs joined #perl6
16:44			REPLeffect joined #perl6
16:45			payload joined #perl6
16:46		KyleHa	I'm looking at the bug #66840 that came in on perl6-compiler.  The test I came up with is:  eval_dies_ok q[ 1 ?? 2,3 !! 4,5 ], 'Ternary error (bug #66840)';
16:46		KyleHa	Even that makes rakudo upchuck and die, so I'd have to fudge it with a skip, right?
16:47		moritz_	KyleHa: exactly
16:47		moritz_	t/spec/S03-operators/precedence.t would be a good place for a test
16:47		KyleHa	Is it OK to put that in the file with the other ternary op tests, or...Oh, thanks!
16:48		moritz_	that would also be fine.
16:48		moritz_	there's more than one way to do it ;-)
16:48		KyleHa	OK.  I'll stick it there since I already have it there.
16:48		moritz_	sure
16:48		moritz_	KyleHa: do you have a commit bit already?
16:49		KyleHa	Yes.
16:49		moritz_	great.
16:49			mtkatwork joined #perl6
16:49		moritz_	ah, removing the Ha$ makes the name more familiar ;-)
16:49		* moritz_	dumb.
16:49		KyleHa	*grin*
16:50			mtkatwork left #perl6
16:52			kst joined #perl6
16:53		rindolf	Hmmm.... make spectest runs three processes that consume over 50% of my CPU each.
16:53		rindolf	So it's becoming somewhat sluggish.
16:53		rindolf	The computer I mean.
16:55		moritz_	three processes are expected
16:55		moritz_	(if your TAP::Harness is sufficiently new)
16:55		rindolf	moritz_: ah.
16:55		rindolf	And there are still no line numbers in Rakudo errors.
16:56		moritz_	rindolf: there are, mostly.
16:57		moritz_	rindolf: cases that don't include them are worth a ticket
16:57		pugs_svn	r27172 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Add test for bug #66840
16:57			Chillance joined #perl6
16:57		rindolf	moritz_: ah.
16:58			wigfield joined #perl6
16:58		rindolf	moritz_: http://erxz.com/pb/18409
16:59		rindolf	moritz_: the point is that .hok() is non-existent.
16:59		moritz_	rindolf: yes. Feel free to submit to rakudobugperl.org
16:59		rindolf	moritz_: OK.
17:02			s1n1 joined #perl6
17:02			Whiteknight joined #perl6
17:02			frew joined #perl6
17:02			cdarroch joined #perl6
17:03			s1n2 joined #perl6
17:03		rindolf	moritz_: is there any way I can tell TAP::Harness to only use one process?
17:04		moritz_	rindolf: you can try the TEST_JOBS env var
17:05		rindolf	moritz_: ah.
17:05			hercynium joined #perl6
17:08		rindolf	moritz_: submitted the bug.
17:08		moritz_	it seems I have to patch t/harness to honour TEST_JOBS
17:08		rindolf	Man svn from many http:// (not https://) repositories is very slow here.
17:08		rindolf	https:// works fine.
17:12			alester_ joined #perl6
17:13		Trey	where's the spectest repo?  not in pugs anymore?
17:14		rindolf	There's some spam here - http://rakudo.org/how-to-help
17:14		rindolf	Trey: it is in pugs.
17:14		Trey	ok, i was wondering why i kept getting updates :)
17:15		dalek	rakudo: 10f2235 | moritz++ | t/harness:
17:15		dalek	rakudo: [t/harness] honour TEST_JOBS environment variable
17:15		dalek	rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakud[…]0b5a4a5208484ac09
17:17			jaldhar joined #perl6
17:18		azawawi	std: $];
17:18		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of $] variable; in Perl 6 please use $::PERL_VERSION instead at /tmp/KFd8cEsMoY line 1:␤------> $];␤FAILED 00:02 36m␤»
17:18		azawawi	std: $::PERL_VERSION;
17:18		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
17:18		azawawi	rakudo: say $::PERL_VERSION;
17:18		p6eval	rakudo 067756: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near " $::PERL_V"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:2416)␤»
17:19		azawawi	pugs: say $::PERL_VERSION;
17:19		p6eval	pugs: OUTPUT«*** Undeclared variable: ("$PERL_VERSION",MkPad (padToList [("$_",PELexical {pe_type = (mkType "Scalar"), pe_proto = <Scalar:0xb653118d>, pe_flags = MkEntryFlags {ef_isContext = True}, pe_store = <ref:0xb655ea09>}),("@_",PELexical {pe_type = (mkType "Array"), pe_proto = <Array:0xb6…
17:19		azawawi	std: say $::PERL_VERSION;
17:19		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
17:22			spx2 joined #perl6
17:22		spx2	is the  do BLOCK construct present in p6?
17:22		spx2	this one http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/do.html
17:22		moritz_	std: do { 1 }
17:23		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
17:23		spx2	omfg
17:23		* spx2	runs away
17:23		moritz_	rakudo: do { say 1 }
17:23		p6eval	rakudo 067756: OUTPUT«1␤»
17:23		moritz_	what's wrong with it?
17:23		spx2	almost everything ?
17:23		spx2	http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=773663
17:23		spx2	check it out
17:24		spx2	and the fact that BrowserUK which is an usual on perlmonks
17:24		moritz_	I don't see an "almost everything"
17:24		spx2	thought it was ok to have something like this
17:24		spx2	do{{
17:24		spx2	last unless $a==4
17:24		spx2	}} while 1;
17:24		spx2	which is really beyond my worst nigthmares
17:24		spx2	</rant>
17:25		moritz_	that's nothing wrong with the do BLOCK syntax.
17:25		moritz_	what's unexpected is that last() doesn't work in statement-modifying loops in Perl 5
17:25		spx2	moritz_: why do we have this do BLOCK ? I never used it and I've written a fair amount of p5 code
17:26		moritz_	spx2: timtowtdi. It allows you to write code in the verb-followed-by-object form
17:26		moritz_	if you don't need it, don't use it.
17:27		moritz_	rakudo: my $x; do { $x++; last } for 1..3; say $x
17:27		p6eval	rakudo 067756: OUTPUT«1␤»
17:27		moritz_	spx2: does that DWIM, in your opinion?
17:27			bizb joined #perl6
17:28			nihiliad joined #perl6
17:28		spx2	I get some garbled characters on my screen
17:28		spx2	is that normal ?
17:28		spx2	except for the garbled characters yes it's ok
17:28		moritz_	spx2: when your client or terminal doesn'T handle UTF-8 that's normal.
17:29		moritz_	spx2: see http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl[…]9-06-22#i_1257256 for a non-garbled version
17:29			ejs joined #perl6
17:29		moritz_	.oO( assuming your browser handles UTF-8... ;-)
17:29		spx2	yeah it does :P
17:30		spx2	moritz_: do you use "do BLOCK" in your code ?
17:30		spx2	moritz_: do you find it useful in any way ?
17:30		moritz_	sometimes, and yes.
17:31		* spx2	needs to learn some new langauges :)
17:31		spx2	other than p5/p6 that is
17:31		moritz_	though it's less useful in Perl 6, because you can write loops as repeat { ... } while $condition;
17:31		moritz_	if the presence of a single construct deters you, good luck!
17:31		spx2	aaah yes ! post-condition
17:32		spx2	I like that
17:32		moritz_	(I'm also picky with languages; I abandoned python as soon as I learned it had no "use strict;"
17:32		moritz_	)
17:32		spx2	but maybe python has some form of "lint"
17:33		spx2	isn't "use strict" a lint ?
17:33		moritz_	no
17:33		moritz_	lint is a different tool
17:33		spx2	I think they both serve the same purpose
17:33		moritz_	use strict is something that modifies the behaviour of the compiler
17:33		moritz_	yes
17:33		moritz_	cars and bicycles serve the same purpose too
17:33			mikehh joined #perl6
17:34		moritz_	(also note that "use strict" has runtime effects)
17:35		spx2	moritz_: you mean run-time like this ? perl -Mstrict -e 'eval "$a = 3";'
17:35		spx2	it didn't tell me that I did not use "my" for  $a
17:36		moritz_	spx2: no, I mean the effeccts of use strict 'refs';
17:36		moritz_	anyway, I'm off to play some table tennis
17:36		moritz_	have the appropriate amount of fun
17:37		azawawi	std: $*;
17:37		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of $* variable; in Perl 6 please use ^^ and $$ instead at /tmp/sQr9HpuCSL line 1:␤------> $*;␤FAILED 00:02 36m␤»
17:39			Whiteknight joined #perl6
17:40		azawawi	what are ^^ and $$?
17:40		PerlJam	that's how you match the start and end of lines within a string.
17:43		azawawi	and $* 'was' supposed to do their functionality before?
17:43		rindolf	moritz_: I'm not getting many <<<Use of uninitialized value>>> warnings without line numbers.
17:44		Trey	rakudo: sub foo() { 1 } ; foo;
17:44		p6eval	rakudo 067756:  ( no output )
17:44		Trey	rakudo: sub foo() { 1 } ; foo(3);
17:44		p6eval	rakudo 067756:  ( no output )
17:44			hercynium joined #perl6
17:45		Trey	is that right?  how do you specify foo taking zero args?
17:45		azawawi	PerlJam: thx
17:45		PerlJam	azawawi: $* was how you did multi-line matching.  You see it to a true value.
17:45		PerlJam	s/see/set/
17:46		PerlJam	But that's *really* old perl.  pre-/m days
17:46		* azawawi	finished a couple of quick fixes for today: http://padre.perlide.org/trac/[…]/Perl6Document.pm
17:48		szabgab	azawawi, your blog made it to IronMan
17:49		Trey	rakuda sub foo($a) { say $a }; foo;
17:49		azawawi	szabgab: cool thx
17:49		Trey	rakudo: sub foo($a) { say $a }; foo;
17:49		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (0) - 1 params expected␤in sub foo (/tmp/zXmkJZjcUF:1)␤called from Main (/tmp/zXmkJZjcUF:2)␤»
17:49		Trey	rakudo: sub foo($a) { say $a }; foo('hi', 'mom');
17:50		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed (2) - 1 params expected␤in sub foo (/tmp/r0oiTiXyDf:1)␤called from Main (/tmp/r0oiTiXyDf:2)␤»
17:50		Trey	rakudo: sub foo() { say $a }; foo('hi', 'mom');
17:50		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«Symbol '$a' not predeclared in foo (/tmp/3xzc8AtR53:2)␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3225)␤»
17:51		Trey	rakudo: sub foo() { say $^a }; foo('hi', 'mom');
17:51		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«Cannot use placeholder var in block with signature. at line 2, near " }; foo('h"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:1966)␤»
17:52		Trey	rakudo: sub foo() { say 'hi'}; foo('hi', 'mom');
17:52		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«hi␤»
17:53		Trey	rakudo: sub foo() { @_.say }; foo('hi', 'mom');
17:53		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«himom␤»
17:53		Trey	rakudo: sub foo { @_.say }; foo('hi', 'mom');
17:53		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«himom␤»
17:54		rindolf	If I have a list (or two) and want to find all elements that appear an odd number of times in the list - how can I do that?
17:54		rindolf	For starters, one can assume the list will have at most two elements of every number.
17:54		rindolf	uniq(5,5,5) == [5]
17:55		rindolf	rakudo: uniq(5,5,5).perl().say
17:55		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«[5]␤»
17:55		rindolf	rakudo: uniq(5,5).perl().say
17:55		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«[5]␤»
17:55		rindolf	rakudo: ones(5,5).perl().say
17:55		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub ones␤»
17:55		rindolf	Is it my imagination or has rakudo become much slower lately?
17:55		Trey	what's the rakudo bug email?  [particle] is sitting next to me and said to send that output, but he can't remember the address :)
17:56		PerlJam	rindolf: say [+^] 5, 5; say [+^] 5, 5, 5;
17:56		PerlJam	rindolf: perhaps
17:56		rindolf	PerlJam: let me try.
17:56		PerlJam	Trey: rakudobugperl.org
17:56		Trey	PerlJam: danke
17:56		rindolf	rakudo: ([+^] (5,5)).perl.say
17:56		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«0␤»
17:56		rindolf	rakudo: ([+^] (5,5,5)).perl.say
17:56		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«5␤»
17:57		rindolf	PerlJam: I want a list, not a number.
17:57		rindolf	rakudo: ([+^] (5,5,5,4)).perl.say
17:57		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«1␤»
17:57		PerlJam	rindolf: yeah, that was meant more as a direction to go in rather than an answer to your problem.
17:57		rindolf	PerlJam: OK.
17:58			acajou joined #perl6
17:59			kst joined #perl6
17:59			Molaf joined #perl6
17:59		KyleHa	Is there any reason to keep the empty directories in pugs/t ?
18:00		rindolf	I can write it like I wrote it in p5 - using a loop.
18:04		rindolf	How can rakudo's command-line (./perl6) preserve its history across invocations?
18:06			Casan joined #perl6
18:08		PerlJam	rindolf: you're talking about the REPL?  I'm not even sure how it keeps its history from one iteration to the next. On some systems it seems to, on others it doesn't.
18:08		rindolf	PerlJam: ah.
18:08		rindolf	PerlJam: yes, the REPL.
18:11			bizb left #perl6
18:13			FurnaceBoy joined #perl6
18:13		rindolf	rakudo: do { my @h = (5,6,7); @h[-1].perl().say }
18:13		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«undef␤»
18:13		rindolf	WTF?
18:14		rindolf	Isn't it a bug?
18:14		rindolf	rakudo: do { my @h = (5,6,7); @h[@h-1].perl().say }
18:14		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«7␤»
18:14		rindolf	moritz_: here?
18:15		rindolf	OK, and some of the make spectest failed too.
18:15		PerlJam	rindolf: no, that's not a bug.
18:16		PerlJam	rakudo: my @h = (5,6,7); @h[*-1].perl.say;
18:16		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«7␤»
18:17		rindolf	PerlJam: what is the reason for breaking compatibility this way?
18:20		TimToady	removes an error-prone discontinuity, and naturally falls out from the meaning of *
18:21		PerlJam	TimToady: Here I was typing lots of words to say the same thing as "error-prone discontinuity"
18:22		rindolf	OK, now my program works.
18:24			DemoFreak joined #perl6
18:24		rindolf	But it's much slower than the p5 version.
18:24		KyleHa	Is there any reason to keep the empty directories in pugs/t ?
18:24			icwiener joined #perl6
18:27		b_jonas	don't they remind you that you should write tests for those things/
18:28		rindolf	b_jonas: what?
18:28		KyleHa	No.  They're leftovers from tests that got moved into spec/
18:29		KyleHa	I went looking for Pugs tests to ponder moving into spec/ and I found some empty directories.  I'm looking for permission from someone more senior than me to get rid of them.
18:30			spx2 joined #perl6
18:32			mizioumt1 joined #perl6
18:34			athomason joined #perl6
18:35		rindolf	http://www.shlomifish.org/File[…]ham-for-rakudo.p6
18:40			kidd_ joined #perl6
18:41			nihiliad joined #perl6
18:47			japhb joined #perl6
18:49			_jaldhar joined #perl6
18:53			mizioumt joined #perl6
19:02			pnu joined #perl6
19:03			jaldhar_ joined #perl6
19:04			cotto joined #perl6
19:06		s1n2	std: my $prove = '\\\"foo \\\"bar\\\", \\\"baz\\\")\\\" \\\"barz\\\"';
19:06		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
19:06		s1n_yapc	rakudo: my $prove = '\\\"foo \\\"bar\\\", \\\"baz\\\")\\\" \\\"barz\\\"';
19:06		p6eval	rakudo 10f223:  ( no output )
19:06		s1n_yapc	huh?
19:07		s1n_yapc	pugs: my $prove = '\\\"foo \\\"bar\\\", \\\"baz\\\")\\\" \\\"barz\\\"'; say $prove
19:07		p6eval	pugs: OUTPUT«\\"foo \\"bar\\", \\"baz\\")\\" \\"barz\\"␤»
19:07		s1n_yapc	hmm
19:08		s1n_yapc	rakudo: my $prove = '\\"foo \\"bar\\", \\"baz\\")\\" \\"barz\\"';
19:08		p6eval	rakudo 10f223:  ( no output )
19:08		s1n_yapc	rakudo: my $prove = '\\\"foo \\\"bar\\\", \\\"baz\\\")\\\" \\\"barz\\\"'; say $prove
19:08		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«\\"foo \\"bar\\", \\"baz\\")\\" \\"barz\\"␤»
19:08		* s1n_yapc	is braindead
19:13			stDavid joined #perl6
19:14			kst joined #perl6
19:18			wigfield joined #perl6
19:20			donaldh joined #perl6
19:22			DemoFreak joined #perl6
19:35			azawawi joined #perl6
19:35			its joined #perl6
19:43		s1n_yapc	dalek only post commit feed items?
19:43		s1n_yapc	we should make it hand out commitbit
19:45			hercynium joined #perl6
19:51		meppl	good night
19:51			frew joined #perl6
20:00			pmurias joined #perl6
20:00		azawawi	std: rand(10)
20:00		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of rand(N); in Perl 6 please use N.rand or (1..N).pick instead at /tmp/boYoB54voi line 1:␤------> rand(10)␤FAILED 00:02 35m␤»
20:01		azawawi	std: rand(10 )
20:01		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of rand(N); in Perl 6 please use N.rand or (1..N).pick instead at /tmp/CZbQ3UcH29 line 1:␤------> rand(10 )␤FAILED 00:02 35m␤»
20:01		azawawi	std: rand( 10)
20:01		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
20:01		azawawi	TimToady: i think we have a leading space STD bug in rand( 10)
20:02		azawawi	std: rand(     10);
20:02		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 35m␤»
20:02		azawawi	std: rand(10      );
20:02		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of rand(N); in Perl 6 please use N.rand or (1..N).pick instead at /tmp/2tumXSTsxm line 1:␤------> rand(10 );␤FAILED 00:02 35m␤»
20:03		azawawi	TimToady: and what's the difference between [-1] and [ -1] ?
20:03		azawawi	std: [-1];
20:03		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
20:03		azawawi	std: my @a; @a[-1];
20:03		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Obsolete use of [-1] subscript to access final element; in Perl 6 please use [*-1] instead at /tmp/EFSgrB1Rzy line 1:␤------> my @a; @a[-1];␤FAILED 00:02 38m␤»
20:03		azawawi	std: my @a; @a [-1];
20:03		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Unable to parse infix or meta-infix; couldn't find final ']' at /tmp/Qv3wuafxDv line 1:␤------> my @a; @a [-1];␤FAILED 00:02 36m␤»
20:04		azawawi	std: my @a; @a[ -1];
20:04		p6eval	std 27172: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 38m␤»
20:07			nihiliad joined #perl6
20:08		TimToady	what, you expect me to be consistent :)
20:09		KyleHa	Consistently inconsistent?
20:09		KyleHa	Expect the unexpected!
20:10		moritz_	KyleHa: (re empty directories) they can be deleted
20:10		KyleHa	moritz_: Thank you.
20:10		moritz_	they are a left-over from me using git-svn, and git doesn't deal with directories at all
20:16		pugs_svn	r27173 | kyle++ | [t] remove empty directories
20:16		KyleHa	Pewf!
20:17		pugs_svn	r27174 | moritz++ | [t] remove test that seems so wrong to me (and has no smartlink)
20:22		KyleHa	If I have an AoH, can I say 'foreach my %x ( @aoh )', or is it still my $h ?
20:23		moritz_	in Perl 6 you say 'for %aoh -> %h { ... }'
20:23		KyleHa	Thank you.
20:23		moritz_	siince the item is bound to %h, the derefencing step that you need in Perl 5 is gone
20:23		moritz_	likewise:
20:24		Tene	for @aoh -> %h { ... }
20:24		moritz_	rakudo: my $a = [1, 2, 3]; sub f(@a) { say @a.elems }; f($a);
20:24		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«3␤»
20:24		moritz_	rakudo: for ({ a => 2 }, { b => 1 }) -> %h { say %h.perl }
20:24		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«{"a" => 2}␤{"b" => 1}␤»
20:25		KyleHa	Hmmm, no need for 'my' ?
20:25		moritz_	not in signatures
20:25		moritz_	in -> $x, $y { ... } the '$x, $y' part is actually a signature
20:25		moritz_	just like when you say 'my $anon = sub ($x, $y) { ... }'
20:26		moritz_	std: my Cat $a;
20:26		p6eval	std 27174: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤In "my" declaration, typename Cat must be predeclared (or marked as declarative with :: prefix) at /tmp/Q20ynaHXVM line 1:␤------> my Cat $a;␤FAILED 00:02 35m␤»
20:26			kst joined #perl6
20:27		pugs_svn	r27175 | lwall++ | [STD] allow whitespacey forms on rand and .[-1] checkers
20:27		pugs_svn	r27175 | lwall++ | [Cursor] reinit setting on reparse
20:27		moritz_	std: class Cat { }; class Dog { }; class Fish { }; my Cat|Dog Fish $mitsy = new Fish but { Bool.pick ?? .does Cat !! .does Dog }; # example from S02
20:27		p6eval	std 27174: OUTPUT«##### PARSE FAILED #####␤Malformed my at /tmp/tP7IIsgUad line 1:␤------> }; class Dog { }; class Fish { }; my Cat|Dog Fish $mitsy = new Fish but { Bool.p␤    expecting any of:␤       multi_declarator␤ typename␤ whitespace␤FAILED 00:02 36m␤»
20:28		moritz_	TimToady: please either fix S02 or STD.pm ;-)
20:28		moritz_	it looks rather like two terms in a row
20:28		TimToady	it's only possible in theory :)
20:29		moritz_	(actually I was just looking of '$obj but { closure }' is really allowed
20:29		moritz_	and that's the only example in the spec)
20:30		TimToady	the parser doesn't care what's on either side of 'but'
20:31		TimToady	std: () but ()
20:31		p6eval	std 27175: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
20:31		moritz_	that's only half of an answer ;-)
20:31		moritz_	does the rest of the compiler needs to handle closures on the RHS?
20:31		TimToady	beats me
20:32		moritz_	well, let's say "yes" for the moment ;-)
20:33		pmurias	TimToady: figured out a solution for the use Foo;use Foo::Bar; problem?
20:34		moritz_	upon further review that test is mostly borked anyway
20:34		KyleHa	rakudo: my %x=(a=>1); say "interpolate, I say: %x<a>"
20:34		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«interpolate, I say: %x<a>␤»
20:34		moritz_	KyleHa: NYI
20:35		PerlJam	KyleHa: for now you can use "interpolate, I say: {%x<a>}"
20:35		KyleHa	When you say "for now", does that mean it is sure to break?
20:35		moritz_	no
20:36		moritz_	curly braces interpolate as closures in double-quoted strings.
20:36		PerlJam	KyleHa: no, that means that you way that is currently broken will eventually work
20:36		KyleHa	Oh, cool.
20:36		KyleHa	Thank you all.
20:36		pugs_svn	r27176 | moritz++ | [t] remove oo/syntax-but.t
20:36		pugs_svn	r27176 | moritz++ |
20:36		pugs_svn	r27176 | moritz++ | There were two kinds of tests in there. Some used $value but { closure }, but
20:36		pugs_svn	r27176 | moritz++ | the closure didn't return a role or an enum (so they were wrong). The other
20:36		pugs_svn	r27176 | moritz++ | onces were of the form '$value but True', which we test elsewhere anyway.
20:37		moritz_	damn, I can't type. "onces" :/
20:39			hercynium joined #perl6
20:45			deafferret joined #perl6
20:45			bennymack joined #perl6
20:47			jan_ joined #perl6
20:48			deafferret left #perl6
20:49			_jaldhar_ joined #perl6
20:55			bennymack left #perl6
20:55			jaldhar joined #perl6
21:00		rindolf	http://www.shlomifish.org/File[…]ham-for-rakudo.p6 - any comments?
21:02		pugs_svn	r27177 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Make autoincrement string tests data driven.  This should make it
21:02		pugs_svn	r27177 | kyle++ | easier to add tests for, e.g., Greek characters.
21:03		KyleHa	That autoincrement.t oughta be broken up, I reckon.
21:05		KyleHa	I just now figured out that NYI = 'not yet implemented'.
21:06		moritz_	KyleHa: the reason not to use data driven testing is very often that it's harder to fudge individual tests without botching the plan()
21:06		moritz_	KyleHa: that doesn't mean it's bad, it's just something you should be aware of
21:06		KyleHa	Indeed, I hadn't thought of that.
21:07			nihiliad joined #perl6
21:09		moritz_	rindolf: I prefer to use dashes instead of underscores in identifiers
21:09		rindolf	moritz_: ah.
21:09		KyleHa	Now I'm wondering if I should add fudgy features to my test data structure.  Probably not.  There were a couple of tests that I didn't put in the data set because they were fudged already.
21:09		KyleHa	So I guess if any of those in the array need fudging, they'll have to be factored back out again.
21:09		moritz_	that works for now
21:10		moritz_	(and in the long run it has to be all implemented anyway ;-)
21:10			stDavid joined #perl6
21:10		KyleHa	Yeah, well, no sense making it hard on implementers in the short run.
21:19			azawawi joined #perl6
21:19		azawawi	hello
21:20		kolibrie	ua
21:22		azawawi	Padre's Perl 6 plugin in action: http://ahmadzawawi.blogspot.co[…]es-in-action.html
21:26		japhb	phenny: tell finanalyst I wrote the OpenGL bindings.  They do work from both PIR and Perl 6 (in Rakudo).  Or at least, WFM.  :-)  The black window problem is a (really long-standing) bug in Parrot NCI when JIT is enabled.  You need to configure parrot with --jitcapable=0.
21:26		phenny	japhb: I'll pass that on when finanalyst is around.
21:29		moritz_	I just tested shapes.pir with current rakudo - works, albeit *very* slow
21:29		japhb	moritz_: how slow?  I find it ~75x times slower than the PIR version.
21:30		moritz_	japhb: how did you measure the speed?
21:31		japhb	let it run until the design has rotated at least one full turn, then hit Esc to quit and look at the average frame rate printed there.
21:31		japhb	s/there/in your terminal/
21:32		japhb	I should probably add a --benchmark option that runs it until it rotates exactly one full time, to make sure the comparison is as valid as possible.
21:32		moritz_	rakudo: 3.9 fps, parrot: 197 fps
21:32		japhb	Right now, they're *so* different, I'm only worried about order of magnitude.
21:32		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "fps, parro"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:0)␤»
21:32		moritz_	rakudo: 197 / 3.9
21:32		p6eval	rakudo 10f223:  ( no output )
21:32		moritz_	rakudo: say 197 / 3.9
21:33		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«50.5128205128205␤»
21:33		japhb	So, within variability of architectures and build day.
21:33		moritz_	yes, the order of magnitude has stayed the same
21:33		japhb	Also, I compile Parrot with --jitcapable=0 --optimes.
21:33		japhb	er --optimize
21:34		moritz_	speaking of which, I could try opengl with clang... ;-)
21:34		japhb	:-)
21:34		japhb	If clang manages to get a working compile with --jitcapable=1 on 32-bit Intel, I'm all for switching *today*
21:34			lambdabot joined #perl6
21:35		moritz_	I only have amd64 to test
21:35		japhb	I have one of each.
21:36		japhb	Because I bought my laptop about one season before Core 2 came out.  :-(
21:37		moritz_	if you have no more than 3GB ram, 64bit rarely has practical benefits
21:38			hercynium joined #perl6
21:38		moritz_	never try to compile parrot with --optimize with a debug build of clang
21:38		moritz_	it's just infintely slow
21:38		japhb	True, but Core 2 was intrinsically a much faster chip than the original Core, even for 32-bit stuff.  And I wouldn't constantly be getting skipping watching 720p or larger videos ...
21:38		japhb	heh
21:40		moritz_	I have to confess I don't know much about individual processors/processor families
21:40			kst joined #perl6
21:40		moritz_	just general statements about broader families
21:41		moritz_	s/families/architectures/
21:50		pugs_svn	r27178 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Reduce my own test bloat.  One test per case instead of three.
21:52		japhb	moritz_: did you manage to get a clang build with OpenGL?
21:52			bacek joined #perl6
21:54		moritz_	japhb: not yet. With --optimize it seems to hang somewhere...
21:54		japhb	nod
21:56		moritz_	and on the machine with clang I don't have the opengl headers yet *sigh*
21:56		japhb	oops
21:58		moritz_	uhm, what packages do I need on debian for that?
21:59		moritz_	I have libl1-mesa-dev  and all dependencies
22:03		moritz_	ah, freeglut3-dev is missing
22:03		Tene	I still get FAIL with OpenGL.
22:03		Tene	:(
22:04		japhb	moritz_: sorry, multitasking
22:04		japhb	Tene: remind me again what the FAIL form was?
22:04		Tene	japhb: paste in #parrot
22:05		japhb	Tene: Ah yes, that one
22:05		japhb	frack.
22:06		japhb	That really seems to be a freeglut error.
22:06		Tene	How could I test that?
22:06		japhb	Oh yes, I recall, I was going to suggest trying an app that used freeglut to rule it out.
22:06		japhb	lemme see if I can find a good one.
22:09		moritz_	will any app do that depends on freeglut?
22:09		Tene	probably
22:09		japhb	moritz_: yeah, I was filtering the output of apt-cache just now
22:09		moritz_	if you're on debian: adanaxisgpl depends on freeglut3
22:09		moritz_	japhb: 'debtags search hardware::opengl' is a real helper
22:10		Tene	I'm on Fedora.
22:10		moritz_	meh.
22:10		Tene	but I have that package
22:11		moritz_	or ssystem, if you want to download less ;-)
22:12		japhb	Tene: I generally assume that Debian has a first approximation of the union of all other (free) distros, so this produces a list of which some are likely to exist for you.  :-)
22:12		Tene	:)
22:13		japhb	moritz_: apt-get install debtags  :-)
22:13		japhb	I started with Debian long before such tags were all that useful, and never got in the habit
22:14		japhb	ah, nice
22:15		moritz_	I first did 'debtags tagsearch opengl' to find hardware::opengl
22:36			rfordinal joined #perl6
22:42			kst joined #perl6
22:42			xomas joined #perl6
22:49			nErVe joined #perl6
22:55		amoc	rakudo: my $o = IO::A.new
22:55		p6eval	rakudo 10f223: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤in Main (/tmp/vgehkLTATe:2)␤»
22:56			jaldhar joined #perl6
22:57		* amoc	submits [perl #66878]
22:58		nErVe	"Has 9 duplications and 24 losses, D/L Score is 37.5" i wan to extract lines like these any regex that wld do the trick..??
23:13			jferrero joined #perl6
23:31			kidd_ joined #perl6
23:53			skids joined #perl6
23:56			nihiliad joined #perl6
23:57			kst joined #perl6
23:58			justatheory joined #perl6

← Previous day | Channels | #perl6 index | Today | Next day → | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

Powered by ilbot, built with the Perl programming language. Provided by Moritz Lenz. Please direct suggestions and bug reports to moritz on irc.freenode.net or moritz 'at' faui2k3 dot org.

Imprint