Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-07-02

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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02:12 payload http://the-beyond.net:4242/
02:37 TimToady shouldn't work, $word= should be tighter than ,
02:38 TimToady rakudo: my $x; my $y; $x = 1, $y = 2; say $x.perl
02:38 p6eval rakudo 3d94ef: OUTPUT«Unable to set lvalue on PAST::Val node␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3279)␤»
02:39 TimToady rakudo: my $x; my $y; $x = 1, 2; say $x.perl
02:39 p6eval rakudo 3d94ef: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤»
02:39 TimToady that should be useless use of 2
02:42 Util joined #perl6
02:58 Util S03 states "Perl�5's C<${...}>, C<@{...}>, C<%{...}>, etc. dereferencing forms are now C<$(...)>, C<@(...)>, C<%(...)>, etc. instead."
02:58 Util Seeking confirmation that `&` is included in the `etc`; i.e. C<&{...}> is now C<$(...)>.
02:58 TimToady correct
02:58 Util thanks much!
02:59 TimToady &() rather
03:00 Util Doh! typo; pre-typed even!  &(), of course.
03:01 Util Are there any others besides $@%& ?
03:02 TimToady at the moment @@()
03:02 TimToady maybe ¢() for capture context
03:05 * cj doesn't have a ¢ key
03:05 TimToady @%() would be the Texas form
03:05 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
03:05 Util Thanks, but I was looking just toward the P5->P6 conversion issues. Interesting, though.
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07:00 azawawi hi
07:00 lambdabot azawawi: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
07:00 azawawi @messages
07:00 lambdabot literal said 18h 49m 45s ago: preliminary support for xhtml output: http://nix.is/grok-0.07_01.tar.gz
07:00 lambdabot literal said 15h 11m 7s ago: actually, just try 0.08 instead (it's on CPAN now)
07:00 azawawi literal: sure i will try it. thx
07:05 Matt-W Good morning
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08:43 jnthn o/
08:43 Matt-W o/ jnthn
08:43 Matt-W is it Rakudo Day?
08:46 jnthn Matt-W: That was Tuesday! :-P
08:46 jnthn Though I do hope to have time for work on my Hague Grant today. :-)
08:50 Matt-W awww
08:50 Matt-W I like Rakudo Day
08:50 Matt-W the commit logs are always exciting
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09:35 dalek grok: fc9f009 | (Hinrik Örn Sigurðsson)++ | lib/App/Grok.pm:
09:35 dalek grok: Small Pod update
09:35 dalek grok: review: http://github.com/hinrik/grok/commit/fc9f0097c135bd1f24e0eeeabd97be5827344e09
09:35 dalek grok: 04b23cf | (Hinrik Örn Sigurðsson)++ |  (7 files):
09:35 dalek grok: Add 'pod' output format for Pod 5
09:35 dalek grok: review: http://github.com/hinrik/grok/commit/04b23cf725221f2f354620a9dc2ad517098bf8eb
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10:03 payload rakudo: say False ~~ False
10:03 p6eval rakudo 3d94ef: OUTPUT«0␤»
10:04 payload rakudo: say False ~~~~~~~~ False
10:04 p6eval rakudo 3d94ef: OUTPUT«1␤»
10:04 payload ^^ stringification?
10:05 jnthn aye
10:05 jnthn False ~~ (~~~~~False) => False ~~ "False" => "False".ACCEPTS(False) => "False" eq "False" => 1
10:06 jnthn std:  say False ~~~~~~~~ False
10:06 p6eval std 27355: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
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10:16 * jnthn digs into the ouch-y Perl6MultiSub refactor
10:18 Matt-W \o/
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10:26 jnthn Matt-W: Was kinda hoping to put it off a little, since it's _hard_. But turns out further progress on traits blocks on it really.
10:27 Matt-W I don't envy you doing it
10:27 Matt-W But I'm happy to hear that you are
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11:02 wayland76 @seen moritz_
11:02 lambdabot moritz_ is in #perl6. I last heard moritz_ speak 19h 55m 31s ago.
11:02 wayland76 @tell moritz_ your recent blog post says: For example  is a Str, and "møøse".encode('Latin-1') returns a Buf, more specifically a buf8.
11:02 lambdabot Consider it noted.
11:02 wayland76 @tell moritz_ did you leave something out?
11:02 lambdabot Consider it noted.
11:03 masak a møøse once bit my sister.
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11:03 wayland76 @tell moritz_ "because that are the conditions" should be "because those are the conditions"
11:03 lambdabot Consider it noted.
11:03 jnthn øøps.
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11:05 * jnthn is pleased to see that we actually get through the sanity tests even with constraints support ripped out temporarily.
11:06 wayland76 I know ØØΡ stands for Øbject Øriented ρ-gramming, but what is the S for?
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11:06 wayland76 (Ok, that ¨rho-gramming¨ was terrible; sorry :) )
11:06 jnthn Sucks.
11:06 jnthn ;-)
11:07 * jnthn works out a way to make his life a lot easier in the dispatch refactor
11:07 wayland76 Yay! :)
11:08 jnthn Gee, I hope this works...
11:08 jnthn If it does, it may solve several problems besides the one I'm aiming at.
11:09 masak (beneficial side effects)++
11:10 wayland76 1 1/2 cheers (with the other 1 1/2 to be delivered if it works :) )
11:35 * Matt-W likes beneficial side effects
11:35 Matt-W Also, their presence is often a good sign that you're doing The Right Thing
11:35 masak aye, I had one of those yesterday with Grampa.
11:36 Matt-W I rarely get them at work :(
11:36 Matt-W Ripping stuff out and refactoring it is not something we're often allowed to do
11:37 Matt-W and we don't have a code test suite, so refactoring and being sure you didn't break anything is really hard
11:37 masak tests really start paying off when it's time for a refactoring.
11:37 masak here's the commit: http://github.com/masak/grampa/commit/790ea0dbc0167bc9c9529f16f5fad2a050aa002b
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11:37 masak I couldn't have done that without the tests.
11:37 jnthn This refactor I'm doing would be scary test-less too.
11:38 masak tests rock.
11:38 jnthn OK, time to spectest and see how bad my first cut is...
11:38 Matt-W absolutely
11:38 Matt-W I would've been very nervous about even moving infix:<leg> into the setting if I didn't know it was in the test suite
11:39 jnthn ooh er, forgot something important...
11:40 Matt-W method dispatch?
11:40 Matt-W plugging the multi sort order in the right way round?
11:40 masak a semicolon?
11:40 Matt-W your pants?
11:41 masak that it's Thursday?
11:42 jnthn No, that we need to sort those ones with constraints to a separate narrowness level...
11:42 jnthn We didn't do it that way before.
11:42 jnthn Hmm...I wonder...
11:43 Matt-W hmm it sounds like you should
11:49 jnthn aye
11:49 jnthn ooh, nearly works now...
11:50 jnthn as in, down to an error that suggests I've done something stupid wrong rather than something fundemental...
11:51 Matt-W woohoo
11:51 jnthn oh yes, duh.
11:51 jnthn If you do a bindability check, it helps to test the return value of it at some point. ;-)
11:53 Matt-W usually you do want to see what the results of your checks are, yes...
11:56 jnthn wasn't quite that simple unfortunately
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11:59 Matt-W :(
11:59 Matt-W Well you did say it was going to be difficult
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12:03 jnthn oh duh
12:03 jnthn I think I figured it.
12:03 Matt-W another silly thing?
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12:03 jnthn well, a forgotten thing
12:04 jnthn Not silly like the last one.
12:05 jnthn aye, that was it.
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12:08 jnthn And while this isn't the main issue I was going after...
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12:08 jnthn rakudo: multi foo(@a, @b where { @a.elems == @b.elems }) { say 1 }; multi foo(@a, @b) { say 2 }; foo([1,2,3], [4,5,6]); foo([1,2], [3,4,5]);
12:09 p6eval rakudo 3d94ef: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in find_method()␤in Main (/tmp/2R67duuZwy:2)␤»
12:09 jnthn I'm happy to say that this one now works (locally).
12:09 jnthn OK, we might just make it through the spectests now.
12:09 jnthn Time for Slovak class for me, back later.
12:09 masak jnthn++
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12:36 pugs_svn r27356 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] added simple %method name(param) sugar to tools/ri
12:36 pugs_svn r27357 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] added Mold.constants, Mold.opcodes and Mold.registers
12:44 Matt-W jnthn: \o/
12:44 Matt-W jnthn++
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13:31 pmurias jnthn: if a signature A is more specific than sig B, and sig B is more specific then sig C, is sig A more specific than sig B?
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13:37 skids pmurias: what tests should be checked before any commits to re-smop -- just "make test"?
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13:40 ruoso skids, hi...
13:40 ruoso skids, yes... just make test
13:40 skids OK, that passes, but I do get sone STDERR output during capture.t about valgrind.
13:40 ruoso pmurias, hi
13:41 skids "valgrind: print join qq[\n], @INC: command not found"
13:42 ruoso skids, that's ok...
13:42 skids ok then
13:43 pugs_svn r27358 | skids++ |
13:43 pugs_svn r27358 | skids++ | Use IV instead of int for cast, for 64bit arch
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13:47 skids Hrm I'll have to remember to prefix a bit in the log.
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13:50 dalek grok: 8ff5996 | (Hinrik Örn Sigurðsson)++ |  (7 files):
13:50 dalek grok: Rename -f/--format to -o/--output like perldoc(1)
13:50 dalek grok: review: http://github.com/hinrik/grok/commit/8ff5996de69f7065ceaa3761e16bba404a06cc62
13:50 dalek grok: c7c1fe2 | (Hinrik Örn Sigurðsson)++ | lib/App/Grok.pm:
13:50 dalek grok: Make target_index() return a list as the docs say
13:50 dalek grok: review: http://github.com/hinrik/grok/commit/c7c1fe2437fba387f07fb139be889feb0ecd1d03
13:50 dalek grok: 5175433 | (Hinrik Örn Sigurðsson)++ |  (10 files):
13:50 dalek grok: Support looking up functions from Synopsis 29
13:50 dalek grok: review: http://github.com/hinrik/grok/commit/5175433c00cb8af7344740f2f931718cd17c5a74
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13:56 dalek grok: 00065b0 | (Hinrik Örn Sigurðsson)++ | README:
13:56 dalek grok: Update README
13:56 dalek grok: review: http://github.com/hinrik/grok/commit/00065b0a2cf40c1f2001740b899a278b533625ca
13:56 dalek grok: 1dbcda2 | (Hinrik Örn Sigurðsson)++ | share/Spec/S (31 files):
13:56 dalek grok: Sync to latest Synopses
13:56 dalek grok: review: http://github.com/hinrik/grok/commit/1dbcda21f9c7e003a7b162e764eb69ed003999b1
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13:58 pmurias ruoso: hi
14:00 pmurias skids: running make test-no-valgrind in re-mildew after changing re-smop significantly is also a good idea
14:02 dalek grok: 3a3ca02 | (Hinrik Örn Sigurðsson)++ | t/03_opts/06_index.t:
14:02 dalek grok: Fudge one test a little
14:02 dalek grok: review: http://github.com/hinrik/grok/commit/3a3ca02e0fcbedf0df9538d007fe8b0933576d0a
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14:15 mvuets Gug! Please recall how lambda expression may be specified?
14:16 TimToady -> $a, $b {...}
14:16 TimToady and much of S06
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14:17 mvuets TimToady: Oh... exactly. Thank you. (I'm on S03 now) (:
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14:18 [particle] read faster!
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14:22 pmurias ruoso: how should i find out what makes mildew so slow? gprof?
14:23 * jnthn back
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14:25 ruoso pmurias, that won't be much helpfull, I guess.. maybe enabling SMOP_MOLD_DEBUG and generating some statistics about it
14:27 jnthn pmurias: Did you mean "that sig C" at the end there?
14:27 jnthn I'm not quite sure you can assume that transitivity
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14:27 jnthn I'd have to ponder that for a while.
14:28 pmurias jnthn: i couldn't find a counter example but i haven't yet proved that correct...
14:28 jnthn pmurias: Right, that's where I'm at.
14:28 jnthn I didn't find a need to rely on such things though.
14:29 jnthn In order to implement.
14:29 pmurias jnthn: if it was true you wouldn't have to do a topological sort, a quick sort would be enough
14:30 jnthn I'm pretty sure the topological sort is needed.
14:30 jnthn Or at least, it gives you an easy to group the candidates into bunches that are tied.
14:31 jnthn BTW, Rakudo's dispatcher has changed a little in response to recent S12 updates, though the changes are mostly in do_dispatch. Just in case you were following that. But the narrowness analysis there didn't change at all...
14:31 jnthn (Not checked in yet. Just a "don't copy too closely and expect it not to be different later today". :-))
14:32 pmurias ruoso: what's a faster than valgrind way of checking what caused a segfault
14:34 ruoso pmurias, gdb and looking at the source
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14:46 * jnthn is has a segfault too :-(
14:47 jnthn oh yay, an ex-segfault.
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14:56 Matt-W jnthn: ex-segfaults are my favourite kind
14:56 pugs_svn r27359 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] the native bool,idconst and empty_interpreters RI is a metaRI
14:56 pugs_svn r27360 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] map returns an Array
14:57 jnthn Matt-W: Same. :-)
14:57 jnthn Matt-W: Think the initial cut of the refactor is looking good now.
14:57 jnthn Probably about commitable.
14:58 jnthn Then I'll get it caring about nameds sufficiently (easy now).
14:58 jnthn Then optimize it a bit so we stop running where blocks twice during a multi-dispatch.
14:58 jnthn (hopefully)
14:58 jnthn Then I can get back onto traits. :-)
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14:58 masak caring about nameds? that sounds interesting...
14:58 masak in what way to they need to be cared about?
14:59 Matt-W running where blocks twice sounds bad
14:59 jnthn Matt-W: It's not a regression - we already have this issue.
14:59 jnthn But it should be more easily solvable now.
14:59 pmurias ruoso: do you think writing a profiler for smop would be worthwhile or is blind optimalisation better?
14:59 Matt-W still bad :)
14:59 nihiliad joined #perl6
14:59 jnthn But, a step at a time.
14:59 Matt-W jnthn: I look forward to being baffled by the patch, anyway
14:59 Matt-W maybe I'll even learn something from it
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15:00 jnthn masak: Cared about in the sense of, if there's a required named parameter it should be able to veto the candidate being chosen, and cause the dispatcher to look elsewhere.
15:00 ruoso pmurias, I think there is so many things that can be improved that we still don't need a profielr
15:00 masak jnthn: aha.
15:00 masak Matt-W: I suppose that running a where block twice is not a bug though, just wasteful.
15:01 jnthn rakudo: multi foo(:rw!) { 1 }; multi foo(:bar!) { 2 }; say foo(:rw)
15:01 Matt-W masak: indeed, although if it happened to have side effects it might be rather surprising
15:01 p6eval rakudo 3d94ef: OUTPUT«Unable to parse multisig; couldn't find final ')' at line 2, near ":rw!) { 1 "␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3279)␤»
15:01 jnthn rakudo: multi foo(:$rw!) { 1 }; multi foo(:$bar!) { 2 }; say foo(:rw)
15:01 p6eval rakudo 3d94ef: OUTPUT«Ambiguous dispatch to multi 'foo'. Ambiguous candidates had signatures:␤:(Any $rw)␤:(Any $bar)␤in Main (/tmp/Bz0O84eTEF:2)␤»
15:01 jnthn That's ambiguous, but should not be.
15:01 * Matt-W -> home &
15:01 masak Matt-W: that's a bit of a 'doctor, it hurts when I do this' situation.
15:02 masak jnthn: right.
15:02 jnthn masak: Right, not bug, just a waste, IMO.
15:02 jnthn But waste is bad.
15:02 masak aye.
15:03 jnthn oh joy...we get more dubious exit segfaults now...thanks Parrot.
15:04 jnthn Yup. Runs fine under -G. gah.
15:05 masak :/
15:08 jnthn 0xbaadf00d
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15:19 pugs_svn r27361 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] fix bug in mold
15:20 pugs_svn r27362 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] idconst.bytes
15:20 pugs_svn r27363 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] added example/mold2c.p6 - which compiles a mold frame down to C
15:20 pmurias ruoso: look at example/mold2c.p6 it duplicates our current mold to c compilation in perl6
15:23 ruoso pmurias, interesting...
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15:24 ruoso pmurias, but that would still require the Mold object being created in C... are you planning to do a full m0ld parser in p6?
15:25 ruoso s/in C/in Perl 6/
15:26 pmurias i'm more intending to emit LOST frames using that approach for now
15:27 ruoso so you plan to generate lost from m0ld?
15:27 pmurias yes
15:27 dalek rakudo: ec68db8 | jnthn++ | src/pmc/perl6multisub.pmc:
15:27 dalek rakudo: When we're analysing a candidate, record at that point whether we can make a purely nominal type decision or if we'll have to do a bindability check. (Later we can probably use this as a cache criteria.)
15:27 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ec68db89f36d9c9437ca60b1273010e5dbc96c9a
15:28 pmurias ruoso: do you think it's a bad approach?
15:28 ruoso pmurias, not at all, it's a better idea than the one I had
15:28 ruoso because it will allow generating lost frames for the .ri molds
15:28 pmurias and what was your idea?
15:29 ruoso from viv to lost
15:30 pmurias one problem is that mildew is to slow for now and the example takes a couple of minutes and loads of ram
15:31 ruoso pmurias, but I wonder if we couldn't look at "knowhow P6Opaque is final" and generate c struct + lost code
15:31 ruoso std: knowhow P6Opaque is final { has $!how; has $!who; ... };
15:31 p6eval std 27363: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 36m␤»
15:33 pmurias ruoso: you want to replace the .ri classes or want that as an optimalisation?
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15:33 ruoso pmurias, I was just wondering... but that would replace the .ri entirely
15:33 dalek rakudo: dcf4c6d | jnthn++ | src/ (3 files):
15:33 dalek rakudo: Part one of an extensive refactor of multiple dispatch. This fixes various issues with binding more compex signatures. On Win32 at least, a few more tests trip up on the Parrot GC heisenbug. Also regress one C<is default> test that I suspect may be dubious anyway.
15:33 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dcf4c6d8343f7f3a8cf1ba11fc20b67d425ede5b
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15:42 ruoso pmurias, but maybe it doesn't make sense, because there are lots of lowlevel things happening there...
15:42 pmurias ruoso: i think that's desirable in the long run but it would require optimising out a lot of things (that code couldn't use lexical scope for once)
15:43 pmurias s/once/one thing/
15:43 ruoso pmurias, yeah... I think supporting declaring methods in mold with signatures would already be enough
15:44 ruoso pmurias, I mean, having the method already declared in mold, instead of declaring the mold, then writing the C code to invoke that mold
15:45 ruoso that would allow us to generate the lost code for processing the signature and running the code, eventually allowing us to take shortcuts for known low-level implementations
15:46 ruoso for instance, if in that code I create a new S1P__Scalar, I know I don't need to call FETCH as a method to get the value, but just to invoke the c function directly
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15:52 pugs_svn r27364 | kyle++ | [docs/Perl6/FAQ] Tiny changes to Capture.pod
15:54 pmurias ruoso: what do you think i should use as a benchmark for optimising mildew?
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16:00 Sexygirl does any one know
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16:02 jnthn I know! I know!
16:06 exodist joined #perl6
16:06 masak dang, the one time a sexy girl walks into the channel, she realizes mid-sentence that she's in the wrong place. :P
16:08 Coke joined #perl6
16:08 masak of course, by the laws implicit in the Internet, that was probably an FBI agent.
16:08 Coke rakudo: 3??2::1
16:08 p6eval rakudo dcf4c6: OUTPUT«ResizablePMCArray: Can't pop from an empty array!␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3279)␤»
16:08 masak Coke: that's an old parsing bug.
16:11 Coke masak: is http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=62836 closable?
16:12 masak Coke: seems so.
16:12 masak please do.
16:15 Coke I think chromatic commited a parrot patch to fix #66364.
16:16 pmichaud Yes, but rakudo hasn't bumped up to that commit yet.
16:16 pmichaud so it's not available in rakudo yet.
16:17 Coke pmichaud: is there a particular preference for what tickets are open vs. new? or is there no real distinction atm?
16:17 pmichaud there's no distinction in the perl6 queue
16:17 pmichaud it's just whatever RT has decided to move from "open" to "new"
16:17 pmichaud er, "new" to "open"
16:18 pmichaud I could probably manually open some of the "new" tickets, at least as a way of saying "acknowledged"
16:20 Coke without someone to monitor the 'new' queue, that's probably a waste of cycles.
16:20 pmichaud yes -- it looks like well over half of the unresolved tickets are "new"
16:21 pmichaud (I have a query that quickly pulls up all of the unresolved tickets)
16:21 rfordinal joined #perl6
16:22 * pmichaud runs a spectest to see if we can bump PARROT_REVISION
16:25 Coke if I'm reporting something against rakudo, what's the best way to get an identifying version #?
16:26 goksie joined #perl6
16:26 pmichaud git rev-parse --short HEAD
16:26 pmichaud seems to work for me
16:28 Coke ok. I'm not a git person, so that's good to know. =-)
16:29 Coke Is it possible to generate runnable PIR from .p6 ? (--target=PIR seems to leave off some initialization)
16:29 Coke s/PIR/pir/
16:29 jnthn That's mean to be the way.
16:29 jnthn *meant
16:30 jnthn I fear it's missing a couple of .loadlib directives though.
16:31 jnthn oh yay
16:31 jnthn multi m2(:$rw!) { 1 }; multi m2(:$ro!) { 2 }; say m2(:rw); say m2(:ro); # locally, 1, 2
16:31 ejs0 joined #perl6
16:32 pmichaud we used to be able to create runnable PIR from .p6
16:32 pmichaud but then we moved rakudo into its own .HLL
16:32 pmichaud and now run into TT #150
16:32 jnthn Oh, there's that too?
16:32 jnthn Ugh.
16:33 masak waitwait, so precompilation is broken?
16:33 kidd_ joined #perl6
16:33 pmichaud precompilation works
16:33 pmichaud but only as long as you load it via "use"
16:33 masak *phew*
16:33 pmichaud precompilation fails if you try to run the precompiled module directly
16:33 jnthn pmichaud: I've extensively refactored multi-dispatch today.
16:34 Coke pmichaud: there's no feedback on my comment six months ago there on a variant that works.
16:34 Coke (tt #150)
16:34 KyleHa1 joined #perl6
16:34 pmichaud jnthn: \o/
16:35 jnthn rakudo: multi x(@a, @b where { @a.elems == @b.elems }) { 1 }; multi x(@a, @b) { 2 }; say x([1,2],[3,4]); say x([1],[2,3,4]);
16:35 p6eval rakudo dcf4c6: OUTPUT«1␤2␤»
16:36 pmichaud jnthn: while I haven't followed the details of the refactor closely, I like very much the comments I've seen about it.  They all look/feel right to me.
16:37 jnthn rakudo: multi y(::T $x, T $y) { 1 }; multi y($x, $y) { 2 }; say y(1, 2); say y(1, 2.5);
16:37 p6eval rakudo dcf4c6: OUTPUT«1␤2␤»
16:37 jnthn Both of those used to explode with null PMC.
16:38 pmichaud time for lunch here -- bbiah
16:38 Psyche^ joined #perl6
16:39 KyleHa1 Are there tests for them?
16:40 jnthn KyleHa1: Not yet.
16:40 jnthn Oh, maybe for the second.
16:40 jnthn There's certainly a ticket for the second, maybe one for the first too.
16:41 KyleHa1 OK.  I have my hands full right now, but they look like things I'd be capable of writing tests for when I'm free again.
16:45 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
16:50 alester joined #perl6
16:51 dalek grok: 81caf33 | (Hinrik Örn Sigurðsson)++ | TODO:
16:51 dalek grok: Update TODO
16:51 dalek grok: review: http://github.com/hinrik/grok/commit/81caf338c639be2519d5e1b4bdbb0a587492b0b6
16:51 dalek grok: e4a2902 | (Hinrik Örn Sigurðsson)++ |  (4 files):
16:51 dalek grok: Bump version to 0.10
16:51 dalek grok: review: http://github.com/hinrik/grok/commit/e4a2902bbe55add27736e8af622f2cf824923164
16:54 goksie joined #perl6
16:57 Coke where is the 'substr' method used by 'Int' defined?
16:57 jnthn Any
16:58 jnthn src/builtins/any-str.pir
17:00 simcop2387 joined #perl6
17:02 ruoso pmurias, you could, at first, run mildew -o for every test
17:02 ruoso then time as it runs
17:05 goksie joined #perl6
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17:14 Coke nopaste?
17:16 ruoso Coke, see topic
17:16 goksie joined #perl6
17:22 skids pmurias: re re-mildew -- I can't get that to build quite yet.
17:22 ruoso skids, have you tried a plain "make"?
17:22 skids Yes, I get  "relocation R_X86_64_32S against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC" on each file.
17:22 ruoso ouch
17:23 Coke ruoso; ah, danke.
17:23 ruoso hmm... -fPIC is reasonable to be added
17:23 Coke however, I just hit http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=63592 anyway.
17:23 Coke that should let someone from parrot fix the segfault.
17:24 ruoso skids, the compilation options are inside the "mildew" program
17:24 ruoso you can just add -fPIC
17:30 skids Yeah that built when added to the "BOILERPLATE" set of flags.  The other gcc flags set didn't seem to care.
17:30 ruoso cool
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17:42 ruoso skids, don't forget to commit the change
17:42 pugs_svn r27365 | moritz++ | [S32/Containers] flesh out Buf semantics
17:42 pugs_svn r27366 | moritz++ | [S32/Str] The return type of Str.encode is as specific as possible
17:43 synth joined #perl6
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17:45 takadonet joined #perl6
17:45 takadonet hey everyone
17:45 Matt-W hi
17:45 moritz_ oh hai
17:45 lambdabot moritz_: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
17:46 skids ruoso: I get 19/174 subtests failed.  I don't know what's normal.
17:47 pmurias what failed?
17:47 ruoso skids, it used to pass all here
17:47 skids Ah, looks like I'm missing "Coro.pm"
17:50 pmurias Coro is required for perl5 interop
17:50 * skids trying to figure what .deb
17:51 moritz_ skids: dh-make-perl --build --cpan Coro
17:51 skids Yeah, if I have to.
17:51 skids ...
17:51 * moritz_ doesn't find a libcoro-perl, so it doesn't seem to be in debian by default
17:52 skids Wouldn't it be libmoosex-something?
17:52 ruoso skids, why would it?
17:52 skids I dunno it seems like Moose is what's trying to find it.
17:52 moritz_ if the distribution is name Coro, the debian package is libcoro-perl.
17:54 skids ...unless it's bundled.
17:55 pmurias skids: Coro is used to wrap the perl 5 interpreter as a continuation
17:57 skids no luck on apt.  Have to deal with later.
17:58 Tene can't you do the equivalent of 'yum whatprovides "*/Coro.pm"' ?
17:59 ruoso Tene, if there isn't a libcoro-perl, it means it isn't in the repository
17:59 Tene OK. :)
17:59 moritz_ 'apt-file search Coro.pm'
17:59 ruoso Tene, debian-based distros follow that policy very strictly...
18:00 skids ruoso: that's not necessarily true.  There are some bundles.
18:01 skids But it appears it's not there anyway.  Which sucks -- this close to a pure apt build dep.
18:01 moritz_ anyway, apt-file gives only one hit, anyevent-perl
18:01 moritz_ and that one actually contains AnyEvent::Impl::Coro, not Coro
18:01 ruoso skids, right... the people that packages Catalyst makes it very messy
18:01 ruoso but that's about it
18:02 ruoso skids, you can use the cpanplus deb repo
18:02 skids Well, I'll get to it, really shouldn't have done this much at work... but you guys aren't around when I am free :-)
18:03 elmex moritz_: afaik coro isn't in debian
18:03 moritz_ elmex: yes, that was our conclusion too
18:03 elmex moritz_: try cpan :->
18:03 moritz_ elmex: not me, skids ;-)
18:03 elmex but perl without cpan is perl6
18:04 moritz_ @message wayland76 thanks, fixed
18:04 lambdabot Maybe you meant: messages messages?
18:04 moritz_ @tell wayland76 thanks, fixed
18:04 lambdabot Consider it noted.
18:04 moritz_ elmex: no.
18:04 moritz_ elmex: perl6 is a perl without cpan, but not the other way round
18:04 elmex :)
18:05 skids elmex: (I know how to use CPAN, was just hoping mildew could just give a list of debs for instructions for new users)
18:05 dalek rakudo: b9e87d4 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
18:05 dalek rakudo: spectest-progress.csv update: 412 files, 11629 passing, 6 failing
18:05 dalek rakudo: Failure summary:
18:05 dalek rakudo:     S02-whitespace_and_comments/unicode-whitespace.t aborted 1 test(s)
18:05 dalek rakudo:     S12-enums/basic.rakudo 27 - short name of the enum without parenthesis is an enum
18:05 dalek rakudo:     S32-num/rand.rakudo aborted 4 test(s)
18:05 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b9e87d4ad59dc75806f93bd0c76b7708282415ee
18:08 elmex skids: ah, ok
18:08 pugs_svn r27367 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fix and extend encoding tests
18:09 pugs_svn r27368 | moritz++ | [t/spec] smartlinks for encode.t
18:09 ruoso skids, but you can use mildew without p5 integration,
18:09 ruoso skids, it won't allow you to use p5 modulse
18:09 mikehh joined #perl6
18:14 pmurias why don't the debian people package more modules if it can be done automaticlly?
18:16 Matt-W can it? a whole pile of modules I was wanting to install to use Catalyst didn't work properly
18:18 Matt-W so if there are problems, the automatic process falls apart
18:19 ruoso pmurias, the point is that debian packaging require manual inspection, not only for quality ensurance, but also for licensing check
18:24 mberends joined #perl6
18:34 * jnthn thinks he's finally cracked what broke the last few spectests before he can commit the named param fixes for MMD.
18:34 jnthn And once they're in, I should have what I need to do traits. :-)
18:37 pugs_svn r27369 | pmurias++ | [re-smop] IV and pointers are converted to each other using proper macros
18:38 pmurias ruoso: it seems LexicalScope.lookup is called hundreds of thousands of times for even the simplest tests should i write a non polymorphic variant of it (if the outers RI is known)?
18:39 ruoso pmurias, I think it would be easier to optimize it inside mildew, wouldn't it?
18:39 ruoso it could re-use registers
18:40 ruoso jnthn, was the issue on how the trait names are found solved?
18:40 pmurias ruoso: re-use registers?
18:40 ruoso pmurias, currently, it calls lookup for every single use of each lexical name, even in the same block
18:41 ruoso pmurias, mildew could identify that and simply re-use the register instead of doing another lookup
18:41 ruoso i.e.: my $a = 1; say $a
18:41 ruoso mildew currently does 2 lookups for that
18:41 ruoso when, in fact, it could do it without any lookup
18:41 ruoso since the scalar is initialized in the same block
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18:46 takadonet Anyone got some examples on how to use grammar using the parse method when passing an action object?
18:47 pmurias ruoso: that could help in loops but i'm not really sure if going down the adhoc optimalisations route is a good idea
18:47 jnthn ruoso: Best so far: if it's a typename, we look it up and pass it. Otherwise, if not, we make a pair nad pass it as a named parameter.
18:48 jnthn class Bar is Foo { } => trait_mod:<is>($declarand, Foo)
18:48 jnthn class Bar is rw { } => trait_mod:<is>($declarand, :rw)
18:48 ruoso jnthn, and how that fits with multi not taking named args ?
18:48 Matt-W takadonet: it's quite easy, pass the action object to parse as a named parameter called 'action'
18:48 jnthn Well, that's what the discussion after that was about. :-)
18:48 ruoso er... not considering named args...
18:49 jnthn Turns out named args matter in that, if the candidate is unable to bind it is disqualified.
18:49 jnthn And the dispatcher keeps looking
18:49 ruoso jnthn, are you talking about the discussino I participated? or some other?
18:49 Matt-W takadonet: http://github.com/mattw/form/blob/4d377a7ee9f4e2dd5fcb883983b240fc62c14e01/lib/Form.pm demonstrates
18:49 jnthn I can't remember, it was the one that the S12 changes of late came out of.
18:49 takadonet Matt-w: I can pass the Actions object to it and that works all fine however I'm attempting to build a object from the result of the parse
18:50 Matt-W takadonet: ahah
18:50 ruoso pmurias, I think every optimization we do now is ad-hoc... but I'm just suggesting... if you feel implementing the lookup in low-level will be better... go for it
18:50 Matt-W takadonet: http://github.com/mattw/form/blob/4d377a7ee9f4e2dd5fcb883983b240fc62c14e01/lib/Form/Actions.pm
18:50 jnthn Basically though, I'd taken "doesn't participate" to mean "not at all", whereas TimToady was thinking more "don't contribute to the candidate ordering, but a failure to bind still makes a candidate inelligible"
18:50 Matt-W takadonet: that does it extensively
18:50 ruoso jnthn, so... mandatory named arguments.... I think I see what you mean now
18:51 Matt-W takadonet: using 'make' to set the .ast object for the current match, which can then be accessed by the higher rules and built on or replaced or whatever you like
18:51 jnthn Yes
18:51 jnthn They're declared as mandatory named args
18:51 ruoso jnthn, cool
18:51 jnthn They work about the same level as constraints introduced via a where clause.
18:51 pmichaud jnthn: I'm getting a failure in S12-methods/default-trait.t -- expected?
18:51 takadonet Matt-W: Thanks That what i'm looking for. Next question , you know where some document is for 'make' and 'ast'?
18:51 jnthn pmichaud: Yeah, I'm still flip-flopping of whether the test is bogus or not.
18:51 jnthn s/of/on/
18:52 pmichaud okay.  Perhaps we should fudge it until we're sure.  :-)
18:52 Matt-W takadonet: it's in the spec... I'll look it up
18:52 jnthn If I don't make my mind up Real Soon Now, then I'll fudge it. :-)
18:52 takadonet Matt-w:Tell me what S# it is and I will find it. Do not want to waste your time.
18:53 Matt-W takadonet: http://www.perlcabal.org/syn/S05.html is the synopsis for rules, you'll want to look at the things about match objects and action methods
18:53 pmichaud I'm getting a fair number of spectest failures again and trying to track down which are real and which are bogus
18:53 Matt-W takadonet: after that just play around and it'll make sense
18:53 jnthn pmichaud: Hmm. My GC failures at the moment come down to the succ issue - but this time on a Method?!
18:53 takadonet Matt-W: It will, with the example you give me and the spec should be enough
18:53 pmichaud jnthn: that's similar to what I posted two days ago (more)
18:53 Matt-W takadonet: I wrote that example, so if you have any questions on it feel free to ask
18:54 pmichaud jnthn: some of the GC failures seem to cause spurious calls to inc/succ
18:54 jnthn That's...odd.
18:54 jnthn Really odd.
18:54 takadonet Matt-W:Thanks again!
18:54 pmichaud thus causing  'Int' to become 'Inu', 'Hash' to become 'Hasi',  and what you're seeing (.succ on a Method)
18:55 jnthn Right, but a Method is an odd thing to have "floating"
18:55 pmichaud hmmm?
18:55 pmichaud I think the spurious calls to 'inc' occur when doing isa checks
18:55 jnthn Ah.
18:55 pmichaud and we certainly do "isa Method" in a few places.
18:55 nihiliad joined #perl6
18:55 jnthn Ah.
18:56 pmichaud I haven't tracked it down yet.  But I do notice that .succ seems to be called at times when it shouldn't be.
18:56 TimToady good thing we don't have a type named Fucj...
18:56 pmichaud or Shis
18:57 pmichaud and now I'm getting perl6 fakecutable errors again  (sigh)
18:57 pmichaud (trying rebuild from scratch to see if they go away)
18:57 jnthn How crao.
18:58 Matt-W I sense a new cultural element here
18:58 ruoso TimToady, btw... getting back to the stash issue... I think your last comment scared me a bit... it was looking like if were trying to get typeglobs back to Perl 6 ;)
18:59 pugs_svn r27370 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]:  Fudge a test in default-trait.t until jnthn++ decides if it's correct.
18:59 jnthn :-)
19:00 jnthn pmichaud: OK, looks like my named handling changes to MMD are OK modulo some GC failures (all .succ related)
19:00 ruoso TimToady, the way to avoid typeglobs was, to me, so far, to have the '::' post-sigil being used so you can find the package in a different slot than the package
19:00 jnthn *but* interestingly
19:01 jnthn All of them are succ failures through a similar looking code-path, at least here.
19:01 jnthn All on Method.
19:01 pmichaud jnthn: that's indeed interesting.
19:01 ruoso er... s/than the package/than the type'
19:01 jnthn All with a similar stack trace.
19:01 pmichaud does "make test" pass?
19:01 jnthn Yup.
19:01 pmichaud do you get the .succ failures when running with -G ?
19:01 nihiliad joined #perl6
19:02 jnthn pmichaud: Even running it as ../../parrot perl6.pbc clears it.
19:03 jnthn But yes, -G certainly does too.
19:03 pmichaud right, I'm calling those "fakecutable errors"
19:03 pmichaud right now I'm seeing three types of failures
19:03 pmichaud (1) failures when running from fakecutable
19:03 pmichaud (2) failures when running perl6.pbc without -G
19:03 pmichaud (3) failures when running perl6.pbc with -G
19:04 jnthn Actually I think the code path may be a little bogus - may be over-zealously bind-checking in the multi dispathcer. So I may have a bug here. *but* I'll push since it seems to throw up a common code path that leads to these.
19:04 pmichaud this third category are properly failures in Rakudo.  The first two.... I don't know.
19:04 jnthn As far as I can conclude (I think chromatic would concur), 1 is probably a result of subtly different memory layout.
19:05 pmichaud I'd agree with that.
19:07 jnthn OK, pushed.
19:08 jnthn t\spec\S12-introspection\walk.t is one that gives me the failure.
19:08 jnthn And disappears with -G.
19:09 jnthn oh, wow, I should have eaten something by this time of day...
19:09 jnthn (well, for dinner...)
19:10 pmichaud obra_: ping
19:10 obra_ pong
19:10 pmichaud what modules or things should I be looking at for the distributed spectesting?
19:11 pmurias ruoso: do load_module and find_module_defining belong in CORE?
19:11 obra_ TAP::Harness::Remote
19:11 obra_ TAP::Harness::Remote::EC2
19:11 pmichaud okay, excellent.  thanks
19:11 ruoso pmurias, I'd guess so
19:11 ruoso pmurias, but TimToady should be sure
19:12 obra_ pmichaud: if you have trouble, shout. they're code a minion wrote for me
19:12 dalek rakudo: fb21797 | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
19:12 dalek rakudo: Get us handling named arguments more correctly in multiple dispatch. A type-match fail on a named or a missing required named parameter can now cause a candidate to not be considered.
19:12 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fb217978a68eeb93b4e41e8f3787b2d63073f8b2
19:12 dalek rakudo: 7041eb1 | jnthn++ | :
19:12 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:rakudo/rakudo
19:12 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7041eb18b9d6f74e4988e7785fb6e6a54e355546
19:12 jnthn pmichaud: Going to sort out my need for nom - will come back and debug more later with you on the gc issue, if you like.
19:12 jnthn pmichaud: Was going to do some non-Perl 6 stuff today too, but may as well just make it a day of Rakudo now and do those bits tomorrow. :-)
19:13 TimToady pmurias: that piece of S11 is still heavily subject to change
19:13 pmichaud jnthn: all I'm planning to do on gc today is to track down a few repeatable instances and maybe file some messages about those
19:13 TimToady neither of those names exist in my copy
19:13 pmichaud if you want to investigate further, great
19:13 pmurias what is #?rakudo emit #?
19:13 pmurias without the last ?
19:13 pmichaud but I'm not likely to spend too many cycles on it
19:14 pmichaud (today)
19:14 TimToady lunch &
19:14 jnthn pmichaud: ok
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19:17 pmurias moritz_: ping
19:17 moritz_ pmurias: pong
19:17 pmurias in t/spec/S03-operators/not.t
19:17 pmurias there is
19:18 pmurias #?rakudo emit #
19:18 pmurias sub nok { @_ == 2 and ok @_[0], @_[1] }
19:18 moritz_ huh.
19:19 moritz_ rakudo: say not 1, 0
19:19 p6eval rakudo b9e87d: OUTPUT«00␤»
19:20 pmurias rakudo:  sub nok { @_ == 2 and say( @_[0], @_[1]) };nok(1,"xxx");
19:20 p6eval rakudo b9e87d: OUTPUT«1xxx␤»
19:21 moritz_ shouldn't that contain a negation somewhere?
19:21 pmurias yes
19:21 pmurias actually no
19:21 pmurias it should contain an if
19:21 * moritz_ confused
19:22 moritz_ I'd just write sub nok($cond, $desc = '') { ok(!$cond, $desc) }
19:22 pmurias sub not($cond,$desc) { if $cond {ok(0,$desc)} else {ok (1,$desc) } }
19:22 pmurias moritz_: you shouldn't test not with a not
19:23 moritz_ good point.
19:23 pmurias and what does the #?rakudo emit # line do?
19:24 pmichaud pmurias: I suspect it makes fudge treat the next line as a comment in Rakudo
19:25 pmichaud I'd have to look at the fudge output to know for sure.
19:25 moritz_ that's correct
19:25 moritz_ because rakudo's Test.pm comes with a nok function
19:27 pmurias moritz_: should a Test.pm contain a nok?
19:28 moritz_ pmurias: I have no idea.
19:28 moritz_ it seems overkill to me
19:28 pmurias we should have a Test.pm spec
19:28 moritz_ aye
19:29 moritz_ I wanted to write one
19:29 moritz_ and then we tripped onto this "testing should be part of the language" idea
19:29 moritz_ and we wanted to redo it
19:29 moritz_ but that never really happened
19:29 moritz_ but with that my attempt so far has starved
19:29 moritz_ feel free to chime in ;-)
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19:32 * ruoso votes to leave Test.pm as a module then, since no consensus on how to get it into the language was formed...
19:32 pmichaud +1
19:33 moritz_ (status quo)++
19:34 sjohnson hies
19:34 moritz_ afk
19:43 justatheory skids: (backlogging your backlogging) Thanks. That seems a little more obscure to me, though.
19:43 pmurias adding all required functionality into t/02-test-pm, throwing away the extra stuff from the implementation dependend modules and writing docs for Test.pm seems a good plan
19:47 pugs_svn r27371 | pmurias++ | [t/spec] remove evil fudge
19:58 * jnthn totally parsed (status quo)++ as a reference to the rock band
20:01 * ruoso .oO(is there a band by that name?)
20:01 pmurias is there a &not function or only &prefix:<not>?
20:02 ruoso I don't think there's a prefix:<not>
20:02 ruoso std: say not1
20:02 p6eval std 27371: OUTPUT«Undeclared routine:␤   not1 used at 1 ␤ok 00:02 35m␤»
20:02 ruoso std: multi prefix:<not> {...}; not1
20:02 jnthn Yeah, but probably less known outside the UK...
20:02 jnthn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_Quo
20:02 p6eval std 27371: OUTPUT«Undeclared routine:␤   not1 used at 1 ␤ok 00:03 39m␤»
20:03 ruoso std: multi prefix:<not> {...}; not\1
20:03 p6eval std 27371: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 39m␤»
20:03 ruoso std: not\1
20:03 p6eval std 27371: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
20:03 pmurias ruoso: not 1 is parsed as prefix:<not>
20:03 ruoso hmm... ok... so I was wrong ;)
20:03 ruoso as usual
20:04 pmurias but the test also uses &not
20:04 pmurias as not(1)
20:04 ruoso maybe prefix:<not> just calls not()
20:04 [particle] rakudo; not(0).say
20:04 [particle] rakudo: not(0).say
20:04 p6eval rakudo 7041eb: OUTPUT«0␤»
20:05 [particle] rakudo: not(False).say
20:05 ruoso interesting
20:05 p6eval rakudo 7041eb: OUTPUT«0␤»
20:05 [particle] rakudo: not(True).say
20:05 p6eval rakudo 7041eb: OUTPUT«1␤»
20:05 [particle] sigh
20:05 [particle] rakudo: say not(False)
20:05 p6eval rakudo 7041eb: OUTPUT«1␤»
20:06 [particle] method is tighter than prefix
20:07 ruoso gah...
20:07 ruoso that's unexpected
20:07 [particle] yep
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20:10 [particle] rakudo: (not True).say
20:10 p6eval rakudo 7041eb: OUTPUT«0␤»
20:11 pugs_svn r27372 | moritz++ | [t/spec] unfudge type-based.t for rakudo
20:11 moritz_ jnthn: there was a test already for multi(::T $a, T $b) which I now unfudged
20:12 moritz_ phenny, tell KyleHA there was a test already for multi(::T $a, T $b) which I now unfudged (S05-multi/type-based.t)
20:12 phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when KyleHA is around.
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20:13 jnthn moritz_: There was a ticket too, filed by yours truly iirc
20:13 jnthn erm
20:13 jnthn filed by you even
20:13 jnthn :-)
20:13 * jnthn hopes his dinner is cooked soon
20:13 moritz_ aye
20:13 moritz_ RT #63276
20:14 moritz_ jnthn++ # huge MMD WIN
20:16 * Matt-W tries today's updates from jnthn
20:21 * jnthn nomming the output of make dinner; bbs
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20:40 pmurias what's the point of an alpha prefix?
20:44 ruoso tag the value as unstable
20:44 ruoso ?
20:44 ruoso *grin*
20:45 pmurias meant an prefix operator consisting of alpha characters
20:52 payload alpha ~~ "a".."z","A".."Z" ?
20:52 payload :-/
20:54 pmurias yes
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21:34 pmurias ruoso: i think i'll attempt writing the m0ld to lost compiler in haskell tommorow
21:35 pmurias and once it gets us enought speed it will be ported to Perl 6
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