Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-08-01

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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02:06 meppl good night
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04:30 pugs_svn r27826 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Test for RT #68086
04:30 pugs_svn r27827 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Tests for RT #68074
04:30 pugs_svn r27828 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Tests for RT #68008
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04:34 JimmyZ rakudo: say '3'.^method.perl
04:34 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Method 'method' not found for invocant of class 'ClassHOW'␤»
04:34 JimmyZ rakudo: say '3'.^methods.perl
04:34 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[{ ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ...
04:34 p6eval ..}, { …
04:36 JimmyZ rakudo: '3'.^methods.map({.name}).join(', ').say
04:36 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«WHICH, ACCEPTS, perl, sprintf, Scalar, pred, encode, succ, floor, rand, truncate, round, sort, rindex, sqrt, split, match, grep, words, values, can, lcfirst, srand, Complex, map, polar, cis, kv, samecase, log, min, capitalize, max, first, trans, flip, does, Int, p5chop, lc,
04:36 p6eval ..subst, …
04:36 JimmyZ rakudo: '3'.^methods.map({.name}).perl.say
04:36 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«["encode", "succ", "WHICH", "ACCEPTS", "perl", "sprintf", "Scalar", "pred", "chr", ":d", ":e", ":f", "comb", "floor", "round", "chop", "split", "match", "words", "can", "lcfirst", "uc", "srand", "Complex", "keys", "map", "polar", "cis", "log", "substr", "min", "max", "pick",
04:36 p6eval .."first…
04:36 JimmyZ rakudo: '3'.^methods.perl.say
04:36 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[{ ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ...
04:36 p6eval ..}, { …
04:46 tann_ rakudo: no strict; $i = 2; say $i;
04:46 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Symbol '$i' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/HjoGGW7pUx:2)␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
04:46 tann_ pugs: no strict; $i = 0; say $i;
04:46 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected " ="␤    expecting "::"␤    Variable "$i" requires predeclaration or explicit package name␤    at /tmp/oh6U8lkTxL line 1, column 14␤»
04:47 sjohnson how's it going dudes
04:54 JimmyZ rakudo: $i = 2; say $i;
04:54 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Symbol '$i' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/K375UkQxhe:2)␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
04:54 JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = 2; .say ;
04:54 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«2␤»
04:55 wayland76 sjohnson: The weather is golfy :)
04:55 sjohnson hi wayland
04:55 sjohnson \o/
04:55 wayland76 hi
04:55 wayland76 :)
04:55 sjohnson perl!
04:55 wayland76 6!
04:55 sjohnson i love it everyday
04:55 sjohnson i think the people who hate it
04:56 sjohnson just aren't capable, or haven't seen the beauty of its expressiveness
04:56 wayland76 Don't agree
04:57 wayland76 The big advantage of perl is that it lets you program the way you want
04:57 tann_ rakudo: my @a = 1..10; my @b = 100..110; my @c = @b >>-<< @a; say @c.perl;
04:57 wayland76 But if the people you work with have a widely different idea of what is good, then naturally it creates problems
04:57 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Non-dwimmy hyperoperator cannot be used on arrays of different sizes or dimensions.␤in Main (/tmp/UsNjSMm1AF:2)␤»
04:58 wayland76 Something like Python, OTOH, has the One True Way to do things
04:58 tann_ rakudo: my @a = 1..10; my @b = 101..110; my @c = @b >>-<< @a; say @c.perl;
04:58 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 100]␤»
04:58 wayland76 And that keeps idiots from doing something stupid with it
04:58 wayland76 So if you work with idiots, you like Python :)
04:58 tann_ wayland76: disagree
04:59 wayland76 (Or something else other than perl; pick your own B&D language)
04:59 tann_ wayland76: it *tries* to keep idiots from doing bad things...but that doesn't mean they can't do it
04:59 wayland76 Ah, yes, good point
04:59 wayland76 I should've made that clearer :)
05:00 tann_ i've read ugly python code as well
05:00 wayland76 "FORTRAN programmers can write FORTRAN in any language", etc :)
05:00 tann_ it's much about the person who writes the code
05:00 sjohnson tann_: i take it you like Perl too a lot
05:01 tann_ sjohnson: it's handy
05:01 tann_ sjohnson: i'm not so religious about languages
05:02 tann_ i don't like some of perl6's stuff..but what do i know? timtoady is always god regardless :P
05:02 wayland76 What do you not like?
05:02 wayland76 (I want to see if I also dislike them :) )
05:03 sjohnson well, God said that maybe he might consider $string[3] indexing for strings
05:03 tann_ wayland76: i think some of the builtin variables
05:03 sjohnson like in many languages
05:03 sjohnson i think that'd be sweet
05:03 wayland76 tann_: You'd prefer to have fewer?
05:03 tann_ also, stuff like  %h<key> vs %h{'key'} etc.
05:04 tann_ wayland76: yes
05:04 tann_ if possible
05:04 wayland76 tann_: But you can still use %h{'key'} if you want
05:04 tann_ wayland76: that's the thing i don't like
05:04 wayland76 The variables are still far from fixed (ie. in a state of flux)
05:04 tann_ it'll confuse the heck outta people
05:05 wayland76 Did you ever read the essay about Perl being a postmodern language?
05:05 tann_ yup
05:05 tann_ larry as always is way too smart :P
05:05 tann_ and look at people around him, pmichaud, damian etc.. all scarily smart folks
05:06 wayland76 The idea I'm thinking of here is something like "We put in everything and let people use the bits they want"
05:06 tann_ so i sit and learn...keep quiet :D
05:06 wayland76 I agree about the "smart" business
05:06 sjohnson you guys know a lot more Perl than i do :(
05:06 tann_ sjohnson: when it comes to p6, i know as much as you do
05:07 tann_ probably you know more than me :D
05:07 wayland76 I remember talking with someone recently who said something like "The #perl6 channel is strange; I don't usually feel like the dumbest person in the room" :)
05:07 tann_ probably because he was talking to me
05:08 sjohnson hahah
05:08 wayland76 tann_: No, I don't think it was you.
05:08 sjohnson you have a good sense of humour
05:08 wayland76 Oh, wait, I got your comment backwards :)
05:08 wayland76 sorry :)
05:08 sjohnson is it too radical to say that people who are funny also tend to be able to program in Perl effectively?
05:09 wayland76 Why are the words "in Perl" in that sentence? :)
05:09 tann_ sjohnson: i don't claim either :P
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05:09 JimmyZ rakudo: for '0001.jpg' .. '0010.jpg' { .say }
05:09 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«0001.jpg␤0002.jpg␤0003.jpg␤0004.jpg␤0005.jpg␤0006.jpg␤0007.jpg␤0008.jpg␤0009.jpg␤0010.jpg␤»
05:10 tann_ scary eh, jimmy? :)
05:10 sjohnson tann_ / wayland76: do you guys get to use Perl at work?
05:10 JimmyZ rakudo: for 'zhao_0001.jpg' .. 'zhao_0010.jpg' { .say }
05:10 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«zhao_0001.jpg␤zhao_0002.jpg␤zhao_0003.jpg␤zhao_0004.jpg␤zhao_0005.jpg␤zhao_0006.jpg␤zhao_0007.jpg␤zhao_0008.jpg␤zhao_0009.jpg␤zhao_0010.jpg␤»
05:10 tann_ sjohnson: yes....100%
05:11 sjohnson tann_: 100%?
05:11 sjohnson i get to use it like, 5%
05:11 sjohnson but that 5% is bliss to me
05:11 tann_ sjohnson: our system, platform rely heavily on perl
05:11 sjohnson the other 95% is PHP and javascript and i hate it
05:11 sjohnson tann_: you must have been a saint in a past life
05:12 wayland76 sjohnson: When I can
05:12 tann_ sjohnson: then i would be programming in html now
05:12 sjohnson you like HTML?
05:12 sjohnson i hate it as much as I hate javascript
05:12 tann_ marginally
05:12 wayland76 xhtml2 looks all right, though :)
05:12 sjohnson my favourite thing is backend tasks in Perl
05:13 tann_ javascript?
05:13 tann_ jquery?
05:13 sjohnson jquery i have been told solves all my complaints
05:13 tann_ our backend and apps are mostly in c++, java etc...
05:13 sjohnson i dont know how easily it is to get Jquery setup where i work
05:14 tann_ front end is mostly php and yui :)
05:14 tann_ but platform and system work are almost all perl
05:14 tann_ uh oh..too many details..you probably guess which company i'm working for :D
05:15 sjohnson mhm
05:15 sjohnson amazon?
05:15 sjohnson let me keep guessing if i am wrong
05:15 tann_ notice the javascript lib for the front end ;)
05:16 JimmyZ rakudo: '3'.WHICH.perl.say
05:16 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«"3"␤»
05:16 sjohnson JimmyZ: try this
05:16 sjohnson ahh nevermind
05:16 sjohnson you know what you're doing
05:17 JimmyZ sjohnson: yep
05:17 JimmyZ just want give it a try.
05:17 JimmyZ s/want/want to/
05:19 tann_ which new stuff in p6 you guys like?
05:19 sjohnson oh man
05:19 wayland76 tann_: Custom slangs :)
05:20 tann_ :)
05:20 sjohnson this says it all:  http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/39025
05:20 JimmyZ rakudo: '3'.PARROT.say
05:20 wayland76 Access to syntax tree
05:20 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Str␤»
05:20 JimmyZ rakudo: '3'.WHAT.say
05:20 tann_ i like the multi sub/method lots
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05:20 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Str()␤»
05:21 missingthepoint rakudo: class A { method b { say 'b' } }; my $a = A.new; $a.b ()
05:21 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "()"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
05:21 missingthepoint rakudo: class A { method b { say 'b' } }; my $a = A.new; $a.b()
05:21 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«b␤»
05:22 wayland76 tann_: Note that that article about sjohnson was actually written by masak :)
05:22 tann_ i'm not fond of that *unspace* thingy
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05:23 tann_ i know lots of programmers like to put a space after an identifier name
05:23 tann_ now they have to retrain their habit
05:24 wayland76 Well, I never put space after "if" and "while".  Now I have to retrain :)
05:24 tann_ urg
05:24 tann_ i thought perlstyle recommended that
05:24 tann_ space between a control keywords and openning paren
05:25 wayland76 possibly
05:25 tann_ but not for methods and subs
05:25 wayland76 But when perlstyle said "spaces instead of tabs", then I basically ignored it :)
05:25 tann_ damian also said so in his perl best practices book
05:25 tann_ wayland76: why?
05:26 wayland76 I don't mind if people want their tabs to be 4 spaces wide, but I think they should use actual tabs instead of spaces
05:26 tann_ i'm also an advocate of spaces over tabs
05:26 tann_ well, i like to see code indented properly
05:26 wayland76 I agree about that
05:26 wayland76 I can live with spaces on other people's projects, but unindented code is just evil :)
05:27 tann_ some editors don't interpret tabs right
05:27 wayland76 So fix the editors :)
05:27 tann_ i always have ts=8 sts=4 sw=4 et  in my vimrc
05:27 wayland76 (incidentally, which editors?)
05:28 tann_ padre? :))
05:28 tann_ 'cause i can't install that darn thing on my mac :D
05:29 wayland76 Well, I know both nano and vi seem to work sensibly with tabs
05:29 kane_ joined #perl6
05:29 wayland76 and I'm sure emacs would handle them appropriately with sufficient e-lisp :)
05:30 wayland76 I guess I like tabls because they let each programmer choose how they want to see the code :)
05:30 wayland76 So if I like more indentation, I can get more, and others can get less if they like that better :)
05:30 tann_ why a unfavorable view about spaces? makes your files larger? :D
05:31 tann_ wayland76: understood
05:31 tann_ ruby guys even have 2 spaces of indentation :D
05:32 tann_ and i know graham barr also did that at one point....having the pleasure of browsing his code lots :)
05:32 wayland76 So you're starting to see my point (even if it's not enough to convice you to switch :) )
05:32 sjohnson tann_: can i haz an example?
05:32 sjohnson i'm not sure i know what you mean
05:32 tann_ wayland76: naw, not switching...tim bunce already got me hooked with spaces and stuff :D
05:33 tann_ sjohnson: you can view graham's code on cpan
05:33 wayland76 sjohnson: an example of code with tabs, or spaces? :)
05:33 tann_ though i had the pleasure of browsing his code when i worked with both him and tim at a certain company :)
05:35 sjohnson spaces
05:35 tann_ i've learned much about programming just by browsing those two geniuses' code
05:35 sjohnson who's Graham?
05:36 wayland76 tann_: I know what you mean.  I learned a lot about regex in the early days just by reading the FAQ whose answer was s/^\s*(.*?)\s*$/$1/
05:36 tann_ sjohnson: graham wrote most of the perl core modules
05:36 wayland76 Graham Barr wrote a bunch of the more important modules on CPAN
05:36 tann_ sjohnson: here's an example of spaces :)  http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/TNGUYEN/Locale-Currency-Format-1.28/Format.pm
05:37 lumi joined #perl6
05:37 missingthepoint newbie question: what's the current eqv of "use lib" in Perl 6?
05:39 wayland76 I don't recall, but setting PERL6LIB works
05:39 wayland76 (environment variable, that is)
05:39 tann_ missingthepoint:  BEGIN { @*INC.push: 'lib' }
05:40 tann_ or @*INC.unshift: 'lib' whichever is fine with you
05:40 missingthepoint thanks both of you :)
05:40 tann_ i prefer push as it makes lib lower precedence
05:41 missingthepoint ah, that makes sense
05:43 wayland76 tann_: Both need to be in a BEGIN {} though, right?
05:43 tann_ wayland76: yes
05:44 sjohnson alright dudes
05:44 sjohnson i've had enough PHP tasks, i am gonna take off
05:44 sjohnson see ya guys
05:44 tann_ take it easy
05:44 wayland76 o/
05:44 tann_ has anyone attempted to hook std.pm into rakudo? :)
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05:45 tann_ i like to take a look at some adverbial stuff such as :by  but rakudo parser doesn't handle it yet
05:48 wayland76 pmichaud says it won't go until we've done at least the LTM milestone from the ROADMAP
05:49 wayland76 Now you know why I keep asking about it :)
05:49 tann_ where can i find the roadmap?
05:50 JimmyZ LTM was longest token matching?
05:51 tann_ rakudo.org should be sexier... it seems that there's only moritz updating it and he's already doing a superb job of wearing many hats
05:53 tann_ this warms my heart http://wiki.github.com/rakudo/rakudo/rakudo-10-release-announcement-draft
05:53 JimmyZ http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/e02bc06ee0bb9aabe3c38c171c86739fb0994794/docs/ROADMAP
05:53 eternaleye rakudo:  '3'.^methods>>.name.grep(/^p/).join(', ').say # Why's everyone been using map for this?
05:53 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«pred, perl, pick, polar, p5chop, p5chomp, pairs, print, perl␤»
05:55 JimmyZ or see http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/master/docs/ROADMAP
05:55 tann_ rakudo: say "".^methods>>.name.perl
05:55 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«["pred", "encode", "succ", "ACCEPTS", "perl", "WHICH", "sprintf", "Scalar", "flip", "int", "does", "split", "match", "words", "srand", "reverse", "isa", "polar", "ucfirst", "comb", "fmt", "first", "trans", "chop", "rindex", "values", "subst", "elems", "chomp", "index", "keys",
05:55 p6eval .."chr…
05:56 JimmyZ rakudo: say "".^methods(.name).perl
05:56 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'␤»
05:57 JimmyZ rakudo: say "".^methods(>>.name).perl
05:57 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "(>>.name)."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
05:59 tann_ so from the roadmap, it looks like rakudo 1.0 won't have threads
06:00 JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar").>>.chars.say;
06:00 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ".>>.chars."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
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06:01 JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar")>>.chars.say;
06:01 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«123␤»
06:02 JimmyZ is it a bug?
06:03 JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6)>>.chars.say;
06:03 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«12321␤»
06:04 JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6)>>.name.say;
06:04 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤»
06:06 wayland76 Yes, LTM = Longest Token Matching
06:06 JimmyZ rakudo: say "".^methods.name.perl
06:06 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6Array'␤»
06:06 wayland76 pmichaud has been talking about having it mostly done by the end of the summer (I'm guessing this is the end of August, or maybe even September, in his part of the world)
06:07 wayland76 I'm predicting next February, just to be difficult :) but since pmichaud is the one working on it, I'm hoping he's right :)
06:07 JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6).>>.name.say;
06:07 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ".>>.name.s"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
06:08 eternaleye rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6)>>(.^methods>>.name).say
06:08 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«foobarda6␤»
06:08 eternaleye rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6)>>.^methods>>.name.say
06:08 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6Array'␤»
06:08 JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6).>>.chars.say;
06:08 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ".>>.chars."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
06:08 JimmyZ It's from S03
06:08 eternaleye rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6)>>.^methods>>>>.name.say
06:08 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ">>>>.name."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
06:09 JimmyZ maybe it is not implemented
06:10 tann_ JimmyZ: which?
06:10 JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6).>>.chars.say;
06:10 eternaleye rakudo: ("f","oo","bar",'da',6)>>.chars.say;
06:10 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ".>>.chars."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
06:10 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«12321␤»
06:10 eternaleye JimmyZ: You have an extra dot
06:10 tann_ no dot before .>>
06:10 JimmyZ I copy it from S03
06:10 tann_ the syntax is [list] >> something
06:10 JimmyZ not an extra dot
06:11 JimmyZ ("f","oo","bar").>>.chars;   # (1,2,3)
06:11 eternaleye JimmyZ: compare your code to the one I used. There should not be a '.' between ) and >>
06:11 eternaleye JimmyZ: Then it's a bug in the spec
06:11 JimmyZ @positions.»++;           # Same thing, dot form
06:11 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
06:11 JimmyZ @positions».++;           # Same thing, dot form
06:11 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
06:11 tann_ how to type these things »+«  with a us keyboard? :)
06:12 eternaleye Thank you for finding that, in that case
06:12 eternaleye tann_: Define a compose key, or use the 'Texas' variants
06:12 JimmyZ it is a bug in rakudo ,not spec
06:13 eternaleye JimmyZ: If the sepc says ("f","oo","bar").>>.chars then it's wrong. The first dot should not be there.
06:13 eternaleye *spec
06:13 JimmyZ and @positions.»++; ?
06:13 JimmyZ It is wrong too ?
06:13 tann_ that's confusing..why timtoady allows both with and without the dot?
06:14 JimmyZ and @objects.».run(); ??
06:14 eternaleye Ditto. >> is not a method, it's an infix operator that takes anything that does Positional on the left and Callable on the right
06:14 eternaleye At least, that's what I've been told
06:14 tann_ one would think the dot implies a reassignment
06:15 JimmyZ Were all that in spec  a bug ?
06:15 eternaleye tann_: No, assigning the result of a method call back to the object is .=
06:15 tann_ spec is supposed the bible
06:15 tann_ i'd say rakudo's bug
06:15 JimmyZ shoulde we ask lwall :(
06:15 eternaleye @foo.=map(*.uc) changes everything in @foo to uppercase in place
06:15 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
06:16 tann_ eternaleye: yea..i was confused for a sec there
06:16 eternaleye tann_: There's a category in RT (the bugtracker) for the spec
06:16 eternaleye It has seen use.
06:16 eternaleye Also, the spec is still changing
06:17 eternaleye Implementations provide info on what's feasible and what's desirable, and the spec changes in response
06:18 eternaleye Just run 'svn log <filename>' on the spec docs in the pugs repo, and see the huge number of changes made, including recent ones
06:18 JimmyZ I don't think it is a spec bug
06:18 JimmyZ anyway
06:18 eternaleye JimmyZ: Quite possible, my understanding isn't perfect
06:19 eternaleye JimmyZ: TimToady, pmichaud, and jnthn are really the people who would know best
06:19 JimmyZ yes
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06:42 missingthepoint rakudo: say 10.^methods
06:42 p6eval rakudo e02bc0:
06:42 p6eval ..OUTPUT«succperlACCEPTSWHICHScalarabsStrpredp5choplcjoincharscanlcfirstrootsreduceComplextrimmap:dcis:e:flogminrandmaxtruncatebytessortsqrtIntgrepabsenducceilingp5chompunpolarsamecasefloorsubstrordroundflipdoesintsplitmatchwordssrandreverseisapolarucfirstcombfmttransfirstchoprindexvaluessu…
06:43 missingthepoint oh dear
06:43 PerlJam eternaleye: postfix ops can have an intervening dot as per the spec.   >> is a "postfix prefix" meta-op (not an infix).   (i.e. >> doesn't stand by itself)  At least that's how I understand things.
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06:45 missingthepoint rakudo: my %h = map($_ => 1, ''.^methods, 10.^methods); say %h.perl;
06:45 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'map'␤in Main (/tmp/g7egt1eW1v:2)␤»
06:46 JimmyZ joined #perl6
06:46 PerlJam missingthepoint: what are you trying to do with that hash?
06:47 missingthepoint PerlJam: not sure, experimenting...
06:48 missingthepoint rakudo: my %h = map { $_ => 1 }, 1..4; say $h.perl
06:48 JimmyZ like: .++ ?
06:48 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Symbol '$h' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/27eQGG0KRs:2)␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
06:48 missingthepoint gah
06:48 missingthepoint rakudo: my %h = map { $_ => 1 }, 1..4; say %h.perl
06:48 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'map'␤in Main (/tmp/tQ2pXIiicj:2)␤»
06:48 missingthepoint i have map woes.
06:48 JimmyZ PerlJam: like: .++ ?
06:48 PerlJam JimmyZ: yep.
06:49 PerlJam missingthepoint: your map's block looks like a hash, so perl probably thinks it is one.
06:49 JimmyZ that it, the test case should be ignore some cases.
06:50 missingthepoint rakudo: my %h = map($_ => 1, 1..4); say %h.perl;
06:50 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'map'␤in Main (/tmp/HdHwyaUBLF:2)␤»
06:52 PerlJam oh.  Hrm.
06:52 PerlJam Maybe something more fundamental with map
06:52 eternaleye rakudo: my %h = map {; $_ => 1 }, 1..4; say %h.perl
06:52 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«{"1" => 1, "2" => 1, "3" => 1, "4" => 1}␤»
06:52 JimmyZ t/spec/S03-operators/hyper.t loses some cases.
06:53 JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = 1; .++.say;
06:53 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Syntax error at line 2, near ".++.say;"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
06:53 PerlJam rakudo: my @a = map(2 * $_, 1..4); say @a.perl;
06:53 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'map'␤in Main (/tmp/AtfADUWrle:2)␤»
06:55 PerlJam rakudo probably doesn't grok postfix forms with an intervening dot.
06:55 eternaleye PerlJam: the first argumentto map needs to 'does Callable' - your 2 * $_ expression is being evaluated, and the _result_ passed to map
06:55 JimmyZ PerlJam: yep.
06:55 eternaleye rakudo: my @a = map(2 * *, 1..4); say @a.perl;
06:55 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[2, 4, 6, 8]␤»
06:55 eternaleye rakudo: my @a = map({2 * $_ }, 1..4); say @a.perl;
06:56 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[2, 4, 6, 8]␤»
06:56 PerlJam aye.  I'm not thinking too clearly at this hour
06:56 missingthepoint PerlJam: what's your localtime? :)
06:56 PerlJam almost 2am
06:57 tann_ rakudo: my @a = (1..4).map: { 2 * $_ }; say @a.perl;
06:57 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[2, 4, 6, 8]␤»
06:58 tann_ rakudo: my @a = (1..4) >>*<< 2; say @a.perl;
06:58 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Non-dwimmy hyperoperator cannot be used on arrays of different sizes or dimensions.␤in Main (/tmp/AD0CwxwKVQ:2)␤»
06:59 tann_ rakudo: my @a = (1..4) >>* 2; say @a.perl;
06:59 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ">>* 2; say"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
06:59 JimmyZ ah, too much way ;(
07:00 JimmyZ rakudo: my @a = (1..4).map({ 2 * * }); say @a.perl;
07:00 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[{ ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }]␤»
07:00 JimmyZ rakudo: my @a = (1..4).map({ 2 * $_ }); say @a.perl;
07:00 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[2, 4, 6, 8]␤»
07:01 JimmyZ rakudo: my @a = (1..4).map({ 2 * * }); say @a.join(' ').perl;
07:01 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«"!whatever_closure !whatever_closure !whatever_closure !whatever_closure"␤»
07:01 tann_ rakudo: my @a = (1..4) >>*>> 2; say @a.perl;
07:01 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[2, 4, 6, 8]␤»
07:02 tann_ rakudo: my @a = 1..4 >>*>> 2; say @a.perl;
07:02 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[1]␤»
07:03 PerlJam precedence on that one
07:03 PerlJam or something
07:03 tann_ yes
07:04 tann_ my @a = 4 >>*>> 2; say @a.perl;
07:04 tann_ rakudo: my @a = 4 >>*>> 2; say @a.perl;
07:04 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[8]␤»
07:05 tann_ rakudo: my @a = 1..(4 >>*>> 2); say @a.perl;
07:05 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[1]␤»
07:06 PerlJam heh .. the list (4 >>*>> 2) is being evaluated in a scalar numeric context :)
07:06 tann_ hmm
07:06 tann_ not sure i understand it
07:07 PerlJam 1..8  is quite different from 1..(8,)
07:07 tann_ ah
07:07 PerlJam since the >> ops always give you lists
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07:13 JimmyZ rakudo: ([-] 4, 3, 2).say
07:13 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«-1␤»
07:14 JimmyZ rakudo: ([**] 4, 3, 2).say
07:14 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
07:14 JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = [**] 4, 3, 2; .say;
07:14 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
07:15 JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = 4**(3**2); .say;
07:15 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«262144␤»
07:16 JimmyZ a bug found ;
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07:18 JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = 4**3**2; .say;
07:18 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«262144␤»
07:18 JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = (4**3)**2; .say;
07:18 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
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07:23 missingthepoint rakudo: say 64**2
07:23 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
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07:23 tann_ there should be a version of 'say' for stderr
07:24 tann_ rakudo: cry "ai papi"
07:24 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub cry␤»
07:26 missingthepoint tann_: sub cry { my $P = $*OUT; $*OUT = $*ERR; say @_.shift }
07:26 missingthepoint or something ;)
07:27 missingthepoint (modulo the precise semantics of say)
07:27 tann_ missingthepoint: sub cry { warn @_, "\n" } :D
07:28 tann_ if p6 has say for print + "\n", it should have cry for warn + "\n"...so to make things symmetric :D
07:29 missingthepoint tann_: I missed the point? ;)
07:29 tann_ what's the point of having say when one can do print args, "\n"? :)
07:30 missingthepoint heh, ok :)
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07:41 JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = [**] 4, 3, 2; .say;  # It should be 262144 not 4096, let's call it a bug.
07:41 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
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07:45 missingthepoint JimmyZ: report?
07:46 missingthepoint tann_: how about
07:47 missingthepoint the $thing.say form? i.e., how would one do "ai papi".cry?
07:47 missingthepoint (just curious)
07:47 tann_ same as say :)
07:47 tann_ just to stderr
07:47 tann_ i'm lazy i know :D
07:49 JimmyZ missingthepiont: what report?
07:49 missingthepoint JimmyZ: if it is a bug, you should report it :)
07:49 tann_ i was thinking about it because in debug mode, you see people doing warn args, "\n" all over the place
07:51 missingthepoint pugs: $_ = [**] 4, 3, 2; .say
07:51 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«262144␤»
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07:52 tann_ rakudo: say 4**3;
07:52 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«64␤»
07:52 tann_ rakudo: say 64**2;
07:52 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
07:54 missingthepoint JimmyZ: do you know how to report a bug?
07:54 tann_ missingthepoint: just email to rakudobug@perl.org
07:54 tann_ for rakudo that is
07:54 wayland76 phenny: tell masak Tree: http://github.com/wayland/Tree/tree/master (needs work before it's even coherent; there's an XML grammar in there, but that's just so that we can play with it until we can get something we like :) )
07:54 phenny wayland76: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
07:55 tann_ for perl6 it's perl6-bugs@perl.org...i think
07:56 tann_ http://rakudo.org/how-to-help
07:57 JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = [**] 4, 3, 2; .say;  # It should be 262144 not 4096, let's call it a rakudo bug.
07:57 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
07:58 missingthepoint JimmyZ: to report the bug so the rakudo developers see it, send an email to rakudobug@perl.org with [BUG] as the first thing in the subject
07:59 JimmyZ ok
08:00 missingthepoint JimmyZ: in the body of the email, put "$_ = [**] 4, 3, 2; .say;  # It should be 262144 not 4096, let's call it a rakudo bug."
08:00 JimmyZ missingthepoint: thanks.
08:00 missingthepoint (you want to include the code that triggers the bug so the developers can reproduce it)
08:01 missingthepoint JimmyZ: no problem :D
08:01 JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = ([**] 4, 3, 2).say;
08:01 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
08:01 wayland76 Other people may also be interested in the Tree link posted above
08:01 JimmyZ rakudo: ([**] 4, 3, 2).say;
08:02 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
08:02 JimmyZ I don't I can report
08:03 JimmyZ RT can't receive email from china.
08:03 missingthepoint JimmyZ: ah. i'll submit it for you and credit you with finding it.
08:03 JimmyZ thanks.
08:03 tann_ better if you can attach a patch :)
08:04 missingthepoint tann_: give me a few years to learn rakudo internals, then np ;)
08:04 tann_ missingpoint: some bugs are actually surprisingly simple...
08:05 * missingthepoint opens up rakudo and peers inside...
08:05 tann_ just look at the src/settings  src/classes src/builtins
08:05 missingthepoint i guess "builtins"
08:06 tann_ you can leave the scary bits to pmichaud, moritz, jnthn and other heroes .... but if you can find something that is easily fixed, please do so
08:06 missingthepoint no problem
08:06 tann_ chances are src/settings
08:07 tann_ that's where you write perl6 in perl6 itself :)
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08:13 tann_ rakudo: say  (4, 3, 2).reduce({ $^a ** $^b});
08:13 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
08:14 missingthepoint tann_: i think it's in builtins\assign.pir around line 570
08:14 missingthepoint err, 37
08:15 missingthepoint pugs: say 4**9
08:15 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«262144␤»
08:15 tann_ hmm
08:15 missingthepoint pugs: are you lying to me?
08:15 tann_ ** is evaluated from left to right?
08:15 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "?"␤    expecting "::", dot, ":", "(", term postfix, operator or ","␤    at /tmp/xa4tAegpob line 1, column 20␤»
08:16 tann_ or right to left?
08:16 missingthepoint pugs: playing confused, now, are we?
08:16 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "?"␤    expecting "::", dot, ":", "(", term postfix, operator or ","␤    at /tmp/sBptjVGYaI line 1, column 30␤»
08:16 missingthepoint tann_: ** has right associativity
08:16 tann_ ack
08:17 tann_ hack hack
08:17 tann_ and send patch :D
08:17 missingthepoint no, you do it :)
08:18 missingthepoint i'm lost in the PIR :(
08:18 JimmyZ right to left
08:19 tann_ missingthepoint: if it's the assoc bug, then the parser needs to address that
08:19 tann_ it looks like the parser doesn't get the right ast tree then
08:20 missingthepoint ah
08:20 missingthepoint perl6 --PAST and perl6 --parse to the rescue!
08:20 tann_ i'm scared when i look at the parser
08:20 JimmyZ tann_: yes
08:21 tann_ that's why i'm advocating to use std.pm so we can all blame larry :D
08:22 tann_ report the bug and let KyleHa know so he can add the tests to the spectest
08:24 missingthepoint tann_: do you have a commit bit for the pugs svn? you could do it yourself :)
08:24 tann_ wayland76: what sorta tricks can one play with the ast within rakudo?
08:25 tann_ missingthepoint: i don't...i normally just send mail to rakudobug@perl.org and the heroes take care of it really fast
08:26 tann_ i could've used 'gods' instead of 'heroes' but since 'gods' was tainted by the perlmonks.org incidence...i avoid using it now :D
08:26 missingthepoint tann_: looking at the rakudo tests, it looks like 'reduce' associativity is a rakudo TODO
08:26 tann_ ah
08:26 missingthepoint how do we find that in RT?
08:28 missingthepoint ok, known bug #63306: "[**] has the wrong associativity in Rakud"
08:28 missingthepoint *Rakudo
08:29 missingthepoint http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=63306
08:29 tann_ yea
08:30 tann_ filed by masak, the hero
08:33 tann_ #63306 should be re-opened
08:33 missingthepoint it kinda is
08:34 missingthepoint ah, i see what you mean
08:34 tann_ moritz just commented that it's still broken but the ticket was marked 'resolved'
08:35 tann_ and evidently, it's still broken :)
08:36 missingthepoint i'd change the status to open, but a) i don't have permission, b) moritz didn't, and he probably does
08:38 tann_ probably an email to rakudobug@perl.org indicating that the issue was addressed in #63306 but not fully resolved
08:43 tann_ rakudo: my $n = $*IN.get.int;
08:43 p6eval rakudo e02bc0:  ( no output )
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08:43 tann_ rakudo: say $*IN.get.int;
08:44 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«0␤»
08:48 * missingthepoint wonders if rakudo needs an RT janitor
08:51 JimmyZ moritz  should does
08:53 tann_ moritz got too much stuff on his plate
08:53 tann_ i've browsed the rt tkts and a few already got fixed
08:54 tann_ yet their status was still 'open'/'new'
08:55 missingthepoint pugs: say 4 ** 3 ** 2
08:55 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«262144␤»
08:55 missingthepoint rakudo: say 4 ** 3 ** 2
08:55 p6eval rakudo e02bc0:  ( no output )
08:55 missingthepoint rakudo: say 4 ** 3 ** 2
08:55 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«262144␤»
08:55 missingthepoint ah, different bug
08:56 tann_ rakudo: (\(1,2), \(3,4)).perl.say
08:56 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[[1, 2], [3, 4]]␤»
08:56 missingthepoint "the associativity of the infix op still needs fixing"
08:56 tann_ but it looks like the infix op does the right thing
08:57 tann_ it looks like reduce doesn't get it right
08:57 missingthepoint tann_: agree
08:58 JimmyZ 262144 is the right output
09:00 tann_ hmm...maybe, bc rakudo doesn't do lazy list?
09:00 tann_ moritz would know
09:02 tann_ phenny: tell moritz  associativity of [**] reported as rt #63306 still doesn't work right ...  [**] 4, 3, 2  should give 262144
09:02 phenny tann_: I'll pass that on when moritz is around.
09:03 tann_ alright fellas...sleep is morphine for a frazzled mind :)
09:03 missingthepoint tann_: sleep well :)
09:06 JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar")>>.chars.perl.say
09:07 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3]␤»
09:07 JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar").chars.perl.say
09:07 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«8␤»
09:07 JimmyZ rakudo: ("f","oo","bar").chars.perl.say
09:07 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«8␤»
09:14 JimmyZ perl Configure.pl on windows faild ;(
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09:18 missingthepoint JimmyZ: rakudo Configure.pl?
09:19 missingthepoint JimmyZ: what was the error message?
09:20 JimmyZ I think I should use linux, not windows
09:21 missingthepoint JimmyZ: i think the same thing often
09:21 JimmyZ missingthepoint: always missed some tools. ;)
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09:27 missingthepoint in fact, i think i'll install the latest ubuntu ;) i can dual boot.
09:28 JimmyZ I had one, install with wubi
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09:28 szabgab_in_class rakudo: "hello class".say
09:29 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«hello class␤»
09:33 hah rakudo: grammar A { token a { A }; token b { B }; }; grammar B is A { token b { C }; }; if "AC" ~~ /(<B::a>)/ { say "OK:$0"; }
09:33 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤in regex PGE::Grammar::_block69 (/tmp/DVAA8zAea2:2)␤called from Main (/tmp/DVAA8zAea2:2)␤»
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09:40 hah pugs_svn: grammar A { token a { A }; token b { B }; }; grammar B is A { token b { C }; }; if "AC" ~~ /(<B::a>)/ { say "OK:$0"; }
09:41 hah args :)
09:44 JimmyZ Statement not terminated properly at line 178, near ".arity || "
09:44 JimmyZ in Main (<unknown>:3363)
09:45 JimmyZ parrot and rakudo all make failed on windows with chinese character TEMP ENV PATH;(
09:46 sjohnson hi JimmyZ
09:46 JimmyZ hello sjohnson ;)
09:48 jnthn Oh hai, I made it to Lisbon.
09:49 JimmyZ jnthn: there is a bug with [**] op
09:49 JimmyZ but I can't send a mail to rt
09:50 jnthn Lack of recognition of it's associativity?
09:50 jnthn Think somebody may have run into this one before.
09:50 JimmyZ yes
09:51 JimmyZ rakudo: $_ = [**] 4, 3, 2; .say; # It should be 262144 not 4096
09:51 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«4096␤»
09:51 JimmyZ and i make rakudo faild with Statement not terminated properly at line 178, near ".arity || "
09:54 JimmyZ let me change it to linux :(
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10:43 JimmyZ how can i upload a patch ?  i make ('fo','foo','bars').>>.chars works
10:43 JimmyZ s/works/working/
10:44 missingthepoint rakudo: ('fo', 'foo', 'bars').join('').chars.say
10:44 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«9␤»
10:45 JimmyZ rakudo:  ('fo', 'foo', 'bars').>>.chars.perl.say;
10:45 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ".>>.chars."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
10:45 JimmyZ liangke@ubuntu:~/rakudo$ ./perl6 -e "('fo','foo','bars').>>.chars.perl.say"
10:45 JimmyZ [2, 3, 4]
10:47 missingthepoint Oh hai jnthn :)
10:47 Front_sl1sh joined #perl6
10:59 missingthepoint afk restart
11:00 missingthepoint *afc
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11:33 JimmyZ git is really hard to create a patch :(
11:34 xinming JimmyZ:      git help format-patch
11:36 JimmyZ xinming: It's hard to follow http://wiki.github.com/rakudo/rakudo/steps-to-create-a-patch
11:37 JimmyZ It's more difficult than svn :(
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11:59 * pmichaud _finally_ gets to his hotel room and gets wifi working
12:00 JimmyZ I used 'git format-patch -M b3a2ea5df54d0b6ec978b63892be8bfdbf749fd5 ', but I can't see any patch created.
12:02 pugs_svn r27829 | kyle++ | [t/spec] label test for RT #63306
12:03 missingthepoint kyle++
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13:18 missingthepoint rakudo: if 'bar3' ~~ /<+<digit>-[0]>/ { say 'match' }
13:18 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«perl6regex parse error: Error parsing enumerated character class at offset 26, found '<'␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
13:55 JimmyZ hello pmichuad ?
13:55 JimmyZ hello pmichaud ?
14:03 JimmyZ can I add more missing test cases to t/spec/ ?
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14:06 missingthepoint JimmyZ: just go ahead and do it, can revert if necessary
14:08 ruz_mac__ joined #perl6
14:12 pugs_svn r27830 | jimmy++ | added more missing test cases from S03
14:13 missingthepoint JimmyZ: when you commit, it helps the developers if you put a tag on the front of your commit message :)
14:13 JimmyZ ah forgot it
14:14 missingthepoint like so: svn commit -m '[t/spec/S03-operators/ternary.t] changed <...>'
14:14 missingthepoint JimmyZ: no problem, just remember it next time :)
14:14 JimmyZ too much work makes me forgetful
14:15 missingthepoint aye, that it does :)
14:15 missingthepoint (for most of us it does)
14:17 pugs_svn r27831 | jimmy++ | [/t/spec/S03-operators/hyper.t] added missing dot
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15:25 KyleHa std: my @r = (1, 2, 3)>>++;
15:25 p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 38m␤»
15:26 KyleHa perl6: my @r = (1, 2, 3)>>++;
15:26 p6eval elf 27831: OUTPUT«Useless use of a constant in void context at (eval 121) line 3.␤Can't modify constant item in postincrement (++) at (eval 121) line 3, near ")++"␤Too many arguments for postincrement (++) at (eval 121) line 3, near ")++"␤ at ./elf_h line 5881␤»
15:26 p6eval ..pugs:  ( no output )
15:26 p6eval ..rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ">>++;"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
15:26 KyleHa pugs: my @r = (1, 2, 3)>>++; say @r;
15:26 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«<Error><Error><Error>␤»
15:29 KyleHa rakudo: my @r = (1, 2, 3).map: { .++ }; say @r;
15:29 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Unable to parse block; couldn't find final '}' at line 2, near ".++ }; say"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
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15:35 JimmyZ std: (1,4,9).>>.++.say
15:35 p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
15:35 JimmyZ std: (1,4,9).>>.++++.say
15:35 p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
15:35 JimmyZ std: (1,4,9).>>++++.say
15:35 p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
15:35 JimmyZ std: (1,4,9).>>++++.perl.say
15:35 p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
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15:41 eric256 any perlmonks gods around?
15:41 KyleHa I'm a mere saint.
15:42 eric256 ;) yea i need password assistance
15:42 eric256 since the leak screwed me over
15:42 KyleHa That's what I figured.
15:43 eric256 yea whoever got me got my gmail account as well so i can't recover my password...and they changed the alt email on the account so i cant get my gmail back either
15:43 KyleHa Yikes.
15:44 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
15:44 eric256 hey L~R can you help me with a password issue?
15:44 eric256 i just used the logged out msg gods feature too...trying to get control of my accounts back ;(
15:48 eric256 please? anyone? hmmmphhh dunno what to do now
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15:58 eric256 posted anon in the password change thread...hopefully that will help
15:58 Limbic_Region sorry, wasn't paying attention to the channel
15:59 Limbic_Region I don't believe anyone in authority is reading that thread to help people
15:59 Limbic_Region let me see what you need to do and I will help you
15:59 eric256 thanks
16:00 eric256 i used the pm gods link and posted there as anon, old email address got compromised as well so I posted the new email address
16:00 KyleHa joined #perl6
16:01 Limbic_Region so you did http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=491035 and email perlmonks.org@gmail.com
16:01 Limbic_Region ?
16:02 eric256 i didn't email that address yet
16:02 eric256 but i can
16:02 Limbic_Region I think the issue is that there are no gods currently in the Monastery - the gmail address is probably linked to tye
16:02 Limbic_Region that's a guess
16:02 eric256 oh hurray and google just renabled my other account
16:03 eric256 i was worried they wouldn't cause i couldn't remember a whole lot of the detail they wanted .. ;)
16:03 Limbic_Region well, it sounds like you had a better time with them than I did with Yahoo on an unrelated hacking incident with my wife's account
16:03 * Limbic_Region was NOT impressed
16:05 eric256 yea google makes you wait 24 hours then asks all sorts of questions about your account.  when you used it, who you emailed, folders, creation date, on and on and on. lol very scary but apparently worked...just got the new password, now to see if i got a message from perlmonks on that account
16:06 eric256 any idea if passwords are hashed now?
16:07 Limbic_Region no, there will be an announcement and there hasn't been one
16:08 Limbic_Region a lot of people are upset which is understandable but it isn't like people can drop their day jobs either
16:08 eric256 okay well i'm back in now ;) hashing shouldn't be a big project...anything i could do to assist?
16:09 Limbic_Region *shrug* not unless you are one of the gods apparently.  The implication was that it wasn't even something devils could help with
16:09 Limbic_Region but I am not in the know you know - I am just a regular user - albeit addicted
16:10 eric256 lol alright i always thought you where a devil ;)
16:11 eric256 pretty odd since no one on that site would ever recommend a user store passwords to then have the site store passwords.
16:11 eric256 alright i've hijacked p6 long enough ;)
16:16 pmurias does backticks have a function form?
16:16 pmurias meant to ask in #perl, sorry
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19:08 literal was the Perl 6 Christmas meme borrowed from Ruby?
19:09 literal I ask because of this: http://www.reddit.com/r/ruby/comments/8wb6l/ruby_192_plans_announced/c0aotv8
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19:35 pmichaud good evening, #perl6
19:36 jnthn hi pmichaud
19:37 jnthn Wow, curiously for once we agree on the part of day. ;-)
19:37 pmichaud :-)
19:38 kane_ joined #perl6
19:40 * jnthn has just unhappily discovered that there are...issues...when you .wrap something from a trait handler. :-/
19:40 jnthn (Might not be specific to trait handlers...might be related to another RT ticket too)
19:43 jnthn Ah, seems it is vaguely related to them. :-(
19:44 jnthn Suspect it's because of the twiddling with outer scopes, and loadinit time has some issues there.
20:03 jnthn pmichaud: Got plans for tomorrow? Want to meet up to plan/do Rakudo bits?
20:03 jnthn ...or just to drink beer? ;-)
20:12 pmichaud jnthn: I was thinking about crashing szagab's Perl 6 tutorial (and hacking from there)
20:13 pmichaud but other than that I have few plans for tomorrow other than hacking
20:13 pmichaud (or planning, or whatever)
20:32 ivast joined #perl6
20:32 * pmichaud wanders off to grab some dinner
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22:35 masak joined #perl6
22:35 masak oh hai, perl6ers.
22:35 phenny masak: 07:54Z <wayland76> tell masak Tree: http://github.com/wayland/Tree/tree/master (needs work before it's even coherent; there's an XML grammar in there, but that's just so that we can play with it until we can get something we like :) )
22:36 masak wayland76: cool. will look.
22:36 masak I have many questions, after participating in szabgab's course.
22:37 masak those students were curious people, and had many good questions, which I took down.
22:37 masak is there someone awake/not in transit that I can ask? :)
22:46 cj diakopter: moo?
22:46 cj diakopter: jooseedis?  http://wp.colliertech.org/cj/?cat=194
22:49 masak rakudo: printf "%s %s,\n%s, %s!\n%s %s,\n%s\n", ("How I'd like", "some apple pie", "It'd make me such a happy monkey")[0,1,1,1,0,1,2]
22:49 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«How I'd like some apple pie,␤some apple pie, some apple pie!␤How I'd like some apple pie,␤It'd make me such a happy monkey␤»
22:53 jnthn masak: oh hai
22:53 masak jnthn: \o/
22:53 masak jnthn: got some q's for you.
22:53 jnthn kk
22:53 masak How come .= exists if infix:<.> is fiddly?
22:53 masak oops, maybe I'll ask TimToady that. :)
22:54 jnthn Remember that .= can be parsed two ways.
22:54 masak because of array assignment?
22:54 jnthn (As an op and as a dotty.)
22:54 masak oh, right.
22:54 jnthn $x.=foo;
22:54 jnthn $x .= foo
22:54 jnthn Those parse differently.
22:54 masak nodnodnod
22:54 masak ok, next q:
22:55 masak rakudo: my @a = 1,2,3; @a >>+<<= (4,5,6); say ~@a
22:55 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«No applicable methods.␤in Main (/tmp/vbp7P0zR3v:2)␤»
22:55 jnthn (But *should* semantically be the same. Apart from I screwed it up somehow...so occasionally somehow they differ.)
22:55 masak should that work, or am I just insane?
22:55 jnthn >>+=<< IIRC.
22:55 masak std: my @a = 1,2,3; @a >>+<<= (4,5,6); say ~@a
22:55 p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Preceding operator expects term, but found infix = instead at /tmp/r60Y1Kqgbw line 1:␤------> [32mmy @a = 1,2,3; @a >>+<<=[33m⏏[31m (4,5,6); say ~@a[0m␤FAILED 00:02 39m␤»
22:55 masak jnthn: oh.
22:55 masak std: my @a = 1,2,3; @a >>+=<< (4,5,6); say ~@a
22:55 orafu joined #perl6
22:55 jnthn std: my @a = 1,2,3; @a >>+=<< (4,5,6); say ~@a
22:55 jnthn oops, I'm laggy. :-)
22:56 p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 41m␤»
22:56 p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 41m␤»
22:56 masak rakudo: my @a = 1,2,3; @a >>+=<< (4,5,6); say ~@a
22:56 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ">>+=<< (4,"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3363)␤»
22:56 jnthn I doubt Rakudo handles that since it's a nested meta-operator.
22:56 masak ok.
22:56 masak I won't bother reporting it, I think.
22:56 jnthn We pre-generate various meta-op forms.
22:56 jnthn Well, if you do it wants to be a general catch-all ticket.
22:57 masak nah.
22:57 jnthn Otherwise we've enough combinations to file an infinite number of tickts. ;-)
22:57 masak you'll get there eventually, I'll bet.
22:57 masak rakudo: my $a = "foo"; $a eq= "bar"
22:57 jnthn It waits on parsing changes.
22:57 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«No applicable methods.␤in Main (/tmp/3HhipurQY7:2)␤»
22:57 masak jnthn: now, this came up in class.
22:57 jnthn That one surprises me a little.
22:57 masak infix:<eq> is diffy, I know.
22:57 masak but why is that an issue here?
22:57 jnthn std: my $a = "foo"; $a eq= "bar"
22:57 p6eval std 27831:  ( no output )
22:58 jnthn ??
22:58 jnthn std: my $a = "foo"; $a eq= "bar"
22:58 Tene If an infinite number of tickets are filed in an infinite number of bug trackers, do they make a sound?
22:58 p6eval std 27831:  ( no output )
22:58 masak std--
22:58 jnthn std: my $a = "foo"; $a eq= "bar"
22:58 p6eval std 27831: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Can't make assignment out of eq because chaining operators are diffy at /tmp/3WJraUiJqR line 1:␤------> [32mmy $a = "foo"; $a eq=[33m⏏[31m "bar"[0m␤FAILED 00:04 37m␤»
22:58 jnthn plzthistime?
22:58 jnthn Oh, hmm
22:58 masak diffy. told ya.
22:58 masak but why is that an issue?
22:58 jnthn OK, so Rakudo is wrong to parse it.
22:58 jnthn I'm not sure on that one. I delegate to TimToady. :-)
22:59 masak yes, but why is STD.pm right not to parse it?
22:59 jnthn I'm not sure on the rational.
22:59 masak after discussing in class today, it doesn't seem unreasonable to have assignment-meta-opped diffy ops.
22:59 jnthn No, it doesn't strike me as unreasonable at first glance.
23:00 masak right. next q.
23:00 masak std: my @a = 1,2,3; for @a -> $a, $b = 5 { say $a, "\t", $b }
23:00 jnthn I'd be interested to hear the reasoning too.
23:00 p6eval std 27831:  ( no output )
23:00 masak rakudo: my @a = 1,2,3; for @a -> $a, $b = 5 { say $a, "\t", $b }
23:00 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«1  2␤StopIteration␤in Main (/tmp/r6gsEBomrO:2)␤»
23:00 masak that can't be right.
23:00 jnthn Rakudo bug.
23:00 * masak submits
23:01 jnthn Granted, it's a little tricky to deal with. But Rakudo should imo handle that.
23:01 jnthn rakudo: my @a = 1,2,3; for @a -> $a, $b? { say $a, "\t", $b }
23:01 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«1  2␤StopIteration␤in Main (/tmp/tNbB2dBjAU:2)␤»
23:01 masak rakudo: my @a = 1,2,3,4; for @a -> $a, $b = 5 { say $a, "\t", $b }
23:02 jnthn OK, good, so it's general.
23:02 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«1  2␤3      4␤»
23:02 masak that's part of the bug.
23:02 jnthn Not specific to the default being implicit.
23:02 jnthn erm
23:02 jnthn the default making the parameter implicitly optional.
23:02 jnthn I think this may have been ticketed before.
23:03 masak quite possibly.
23:03 masak we have too many RT tickets.
23:03 jnthn It's come up before.
23:03 masak someone should, like, decrease their number or something.
23:03 jnthn :-P
23:03 jnthn It does'nt help that there are dupes.
23:04 masak "it's not my fault!" cried the Slashdot editor.
23:04 jnthn ;-)
23:04 masak ok, so here's an interesting one:
23:04 masak rakudo: my @a = "A", 20, "B", 23, "C", "D", 30; for @a -> Str $name, Int $age? { say $name, "\t", $age }
23:04 jnthn Well, our ticket queue isn't *that* bad. ;-)
23:04 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«A  20␤B     23␤Parameter type check failed; expected Int, but got Str for $age in call to _block66␤in Main (/tmp/cBBanBG22E:2)␤»
23:05 masak jnthn: right, I've seen worse :)
23:05 jnthn I'm not sure why that one is interesting.
23:05 masak jnthn: oh, come on! what would it take for this one to work?
23:05 jnthn Nothing that I'd like to see happen.
23:05 masak jnthn: is it the same issue as the one with .reduce?
23:06 masak ok, so it's a non-issue, then.
23:06 masak next q:
23:06 jnthn Well, maybe, apart from you don't get to supply multiple candidates to handle the for loop body. ;-)
23:06 jnthn erm, no, I'm not recommending that. ;-)
23:06 masak :)
23:06 masak can we have multi dispatch on return types?
23:06 jnthn No
23:07 masak people requested it today when I told them want() was dead.
23:07 jnthn In 6.0.0 this is spec'd as "not required to happen".
23:07 masak oh, but there's still room for it?
23:07 jnthn It has all of the implementation issues of want - and more.
23:07 jnthn I think the better answer is going to be finding a good way to do contextual return values.
23:08 jnthn The chained dispatch case makes it really hard to see a good solution for this.
23:08 jnthn some_multi(another_multi($x))
23:09 jnthn Here, there may be several candidates for some_multi
23:09 masak jnthn: exactly that case was discussed today.
23:09 jnthn Thus if another_multi wants to go by return type, well, ambiguous.
23:09 masak jnthn: I'm not making a case for this, just saying that people expressed an interest.
23:10 masak rakudo: class A { method foo { has $.bar } }
23:10 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«Attempt to define attribute $!bar outside of class, role, or grammar at line 2, near "} }"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:1742)␤»
23:10 masak may I flag this as a 'less than awesome' error message?
23:11 jnthn To be honest, I think that's (a) because people are used to doing it that way in Perl 5, and hopefully will become more comfortable with the Perl 6 approach with time, and (b) people aren't used to multiple dispatch and find it hard to see why return type based dispatch runs into issues.
23:11 masak jnthn: ack.
23:12 jnthn If we added "body" to the end of that message, is it more awesome?
23:12 masak jnthn: first thing people asked after learning that given/when auto-breaks, was "how do I make it not break?"
23:12 masak jnthn: slightly.
23:12 jnthn OK. Please if you're going to ticket it suggest how you'd like it worded, or at least why the current wording is weak.
23:13 jnthn how to make it not break - continue, IIRC.
23:13 jnthn I forget off hand.
23:13 jnthn There's a way.
23:13 Tene $?BLOCK.leave, iirc
23:13 Tene AKA just 'leave'
23:14 jnthn Does that work already?
23:14 jnthn leave feels...curious.
23:14 jnthn I know *why* it works.
23:14 jnthn It just in that context doesn't feel very self-documenting.
23:15 masak jnthn: yes, 'continue'. I know the answer, it was the fact that people immediately asked (because they were used to the old way) that was interesting
23:16 jnthn Yes.
23:16 masak rakudo: say (1..10).sort(&rand)
23:16 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed - 0 params expected␤in sub rand (src/gen_setting.pm:381)␤called from method Any::map (src/gen_setting.pm:183)␤called from Main (/tmp/KWXrCs0YDb:2)␤»
23:16 jnthn I think it's huffmanized the right way.
23:16 masak shouldn't that work?
23:16 masak jnthn: not only huffmanized, but actually sane.
23:16 Tene There's a 'continue' statement?
23:16 Tene what does it do?
23:16 masak Tene: didn't you implement that? :)
23:17 Tene isn't that 'next'?
23:17 masak Tene: it non-leaves the 'when' block.
23:17 pmichaud there's a 'continue' insi... what masak++ said
23:17 pmichaud (good evening, #perl6)
23:17 masak pmichaud: oh hai!
23:17 Tene ah
23:17 masak pmichaud: are you in teh Lisbon?
23:18 masak IM IN UR LISBON, HACKING UR RAKUDO.
23:18 Tene rakudo: given 1 { when * { say 'a'; continue }; when * { say 'b'; continue }; say 'c' }
23:18 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«a␤b␤c␤»
23:18 masak \o/
23:18 Tene masak: once the commits make it to the repo, they're eligible for GC in my memory.
23:19 masak Tene: sounds wonderful. then no-one can get blamed afterwards.
23:19 Tene masak: yes, 'git blame' indicates that I did implement that.
23:19 jnthn rakudo: say &rand.multi
23:19 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«0␤»
23:19 jnthn rakudo: say &rand.signature.perl
23:20 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«:(Any *@args)␤»
23:20 pmichaud masak: yes, I'm in Lisbon
23:20 jnthn Erm. :-/
23:20 masak pmichaud: welcome!
23:20 jnthn rakudo: say &rand.arity
23:20 masak jnthn: wrong, right?
23:20 pmichaud Note that slurpies are supposed to be Object, not Any
23:20 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«0␤»
23:20 Tene masak: hacking on my roguelike tonight...
23:20 jnthn masak: Well the answers can't both be right. ;-)
23:20 masak Tene: nice!
23:20 masak jnthn: so, bug tikkit?
23:20 jnthn Anyway, rnad is 0-ary, at least as far as Rakudo knows it.
23:21 masak jnthn: right, so &sort should accept it.
23:21 jnthn So in your sort example, Rakudo doesn't really know what to do with an 0-ary.
23:21 masak rakudo: 'rnad'.comb.pick(*).say
23:21 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«adrn␤»
23:21 masak darn!
23:21 Tene *any* 0-ary sub passed to sort is effectively a random sort.
23:22 Tene so we can optimize that and just return the list in the same order it was passed. :)
23:22 jnthn Tene: Right!
23:22 jnthn lol!
23:22 pmichaud well, it depends on the 0-ary.
23:22 masak indeed.
23:22 pmichaud a 0-ary sub that always returns zero should end up not modifying the sort
23:22 jnthn Aye.
23:22 jnthn True.
23:22 jnthn It's odd anyway. ;-)
23:23 Tene is Perl 6's sort guaranteed to be stable?
23:23 masak Tene: aye.
23:23 jnthn But maybe sort could be made to understnad 0-ary blocks.
23:23 masak jnthn: spec says it should.
23:24 jnthn ah, ok
23:24 jnthn Then, fix it. :-)
23:24 * masak submits rakudobug
23:24 jnthn Or rakudobug. ;)
23:24 pmichaud the spec says it supports 0-ary blocks?
23:24 masak pmichaud: aye.
23:25 pmichaud weird
23:25 masak aye.
23:25 pmichaud anyway, I want to rewrite Rakudo's sort in p6 anyway
23:25 pmichaud (with inlined PIR)
23:25 pmichaud currently it's pure-PIR, and doesn't need to be
23:25 pmichaud I had been waiting on getting postcircumfix:<[ ]> refactored, which has been done now
23:25 jnthn It has?
23:25 jnthn Nice!
23:26 * jnthn hadn't realizized that that refactor thad landed.
23:27 pmichaud yes, a couple of months ago
23:27 pmichaud there might be a bit more to do there, but it was the thing that was holding up  *-1
23:27 jnthn But we don't do *-1 right yet? Or do we?
23:28 jnthn rakudo: (*-1).WHAT.say
23:28 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«WhateverCode()␤»
23:28 jnthn Oh, we do.
23:28 jnthn OK. :-)
23:28 jnthn rakudo: (*-1).(43).say
23:28 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«42␤»
23:28 jnthn \o/
23:28 jnthn pmichaud++
23:28 jnthn OK, time for me to get a bit of sleep
23:28 jnthn Catch you all tomorrow
23:29 pmichaud jnthn: it's even better
23:29 pmichaud rakudo:  ((*-1)/2).(43).say
23:29 jnthn At the pre-registration I guess, if not before. :-)
23:29 p6eval rakudo e02bc0: OUTPUT«21␤»
23:29 jnthn oh wow!
23:29 jnthn Really nice.
23:29 pmichaud jnthn: when/where should we get together tomorrow?
23:29 masak pmichaud++
23:29 jnthn pmichaud: Up to you. Where/when is the P6 tutorial?
23:30 pmichaud I'm planning to attend the Perl 6 tutorial.  Building C8, iirc
23:30 jnthn OK
23:30 masak jnthn: boa noite!
23:30 masak pmichaud: yes, C8.
23:30 jnthn We'll late bind the decision and work it out tomorrow. ;-)
23:30 masak pmichaud: I attended today.
23:30 * jnthn -> sleep
23:30 pmichaud fair enough.  You should be able to catch me online.
23:30 masak pmichaud: it was worth it. I'm glad you're going tomorrow.
23:30 pmichaud masak: yes, I saw backscroll.  Glad you're watching what's happening there.
23:31 masak (I'll likely not go. need to procrastinate presentation a bit more)
23:31 pmichaud I would've gone today but my flights were very late so that it would've been close to 2pm before I could get there.  I decided sleep was better than ~2 hrs at p6
23:31 masak pmichaud: guessed as much.
23:31 pmichaud masak: you won't be there?  what's going on instead?  ;-)
23:32 masak pmichaud: presentation procrastination :)
23:32 pmichaud ahhhh
23:32 pmichaud it feels very strange to not have that issue (for me)
23:32 masak it takes a lot of time to procrastinate right.
23:32 masak pmichaud: aye, I look forward to some day being in that situation.
23:32 pmichaud I'm usually an expert at procrastinating presentations.  This time events just conspired against me
23:34 masak sorta like a late binding that just happened to be resolved at compile time...
23:34 pmichaud yes
23:35 pmichaud or it was a fortunate compile-time optimization :-)
23:36 masak heh :)
23:37 jferrero joined #perl6
23:37 pmichaud so, I'm curious -- was last night at the hostel as wild as projected?
23:37 pmichaud or did it remain "calm"?
23:37 masak pmichaud: it was almost disappointingly orderly.
23:38 masak pmichaud: biggest disturbance was Croatian room-mates forgetting their keycard all the time and knocking on the door.
23:39 pmichaud alas
23:39 pmichaud I'm feeling pretty decadent in my hotel room -- it's far nicer than I was expecting.
23:40 pmichaud my only complaint is that there doesn't seem to be much in the way of "see and do" near the hotel
23:40 pmichaud but maybe I just don't know where to look
23:40 masak that's not a problem in our neighbourhood.
23:40 masak we're smack in the centre of things.
23:41 masak here, there's almost too much to see.
23:41 masak well, see you tomorrow.
23:41 pmichaud see you tomorrow!
23:41 masak g'night.
23:41 * pmichaud looks to see where "here" is.
23:41 masak pmichaud: oh, and prepare for no wifi at the class tomorrow. :/
23:42 pmichaud no wifi?  They don't enable it until Monday?  Or it just doesn't work?
23:42 pmichaud (I wondered why things were suspiciously quiet from there today)
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