Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-08-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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02:00 colomon Is there a way to get bignums in Rakudo?
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02:01 colomon (My wife:  "You embiggen the one you have.")
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02:16 meppl good night
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03:02 pugs_svn r27888 | jimmy++ | [Spec]fixed the wrong space, now it's \x20, not \xC2A0
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03:51 wayland76 finanalyst: pong :)
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04:07 pugs_svn r27889 | wayland++ | [S32/IO] Made some more mods to the filesystem due to interaction with finanalyst++
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06:13 moritz_ http://robonperl.blogspot.com/2009/​08/first-usable-release-of-p6.html ++
06:23 * araujo checks
06:25 araujo exciting
06:25 araujo :)
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07:28 pmichaud Good morning, #perl6
07:28 Matt-W Good morning pmichaud
07:28 Matt-W Strange to have you in a similar time zone
07:28 pmichaud Last day it will occur for a while :-)
07:29 Matt-W Has it been good?
07:29 pmichaud (at the airpot now :-)
07:29 pmichaud the trip has been quite nice, yes
07:29 Matt-W By the way, the Rakudo * plan, I like that a lot
07:30 pmichaud thank you
07:30 pmichaud Unless I sleep or get otherwise occupied, I plan to write up more details on the plane
07:30 Matt-W Great
07:30 pmichaud (plane has power so no battery issues :-)
07:30 Matt-W Fantastic
07:30 Matt-W Not all flying sucks
07:30 moritz_ oh hai
07:31 pmichaud yes, I've had pretty good luck with traveling lately
07:32 pmichaud (I probably shouldn't have said that just before getting on a plane -- might have jinxed myself)
07:33 Matt-W I find flying horribly uncomfortable, but I think that's because only business class is likely to have enough legroom for someone my height
07:33 pmichaud For my cross-the-atlantic flight I have an exit-row seat with extra legroom  (not that I need it)
07:33 moritz_ pmichaud: is the ins2 branch still blocking on anything?
07:34 Matt-W nice, I've had that a couple of times, it does make a difference
07:34 moritz_ ah, that's nice
07:34 Matt-W Once when I flew to Basel for a long weekend, I got in row 1, chatted with the stewardess and my neighbours, very pleasant
07:34 Matt-W On the way back, got in the same seat... and had the same neighbours
07:34 pmichaud heh
07:34 pmichaud ins2 branch is just blocking on tuits, I think
07:35 moritz_ tuits for doing what?
07:35 pmichaud I didn't want to merge to trunk when I wouldn't have time to babysit it
07:35 Matt-W making it wokr?
07:35 pmichaud (in case something went wrong)
07:35 moritz_ ok
07:35 pmichaud other than that I think ins2 is ready
07:35 Matt-W great
07:35 pmichaud I can see about merging it tomorrow or Sun
07:35 Matt-W the best thing about a feature branch is when it's merged back as completed
07:35 moritz_ I might assist with babysitting this weekeend, I'm mostly online
07:36 pmichaud It would be good to merge back this weekend, we'd get some tests before the release on the 20th
07:36 moritz_ right
07:36 moritz_ I went through the README
07:37 moritz_ it didn't need any updating at all
07:37 pmichaud excellent
07:37 moritz_ (just found a typo ;-)
07:40 moritz_ do we have different Failure objects yet, and if so, how can I distinguish them?
07:41 moritz_ (for implementing infix:<eqv> for undef)
07:41 pmichaud We don't have different ones yet, no
07:41 moritz_ good
07:41 pmichaud Eventually Failure will be a role
07:41 moritz_ so if $a ~~ Failure and $b ~~ Failure, $a eqv $b
07:42 pmichaud well, I don't think that two Failure objects necessarily implies equivalence
07:42 pmichaud any more than  $a ~~ Int and $b ~~ Int implies $a eqv $b
07:42 pmichaud I thought you meant "different types of Failure objects"
07:42 moritz_ that's why I'm asking ;-)
07:43 pmichaud I fully expect that we'll have a variety of Failure types -- nobody has decided what those are yet
07:43 moritz_ but we don't have them right now
07:43 pmichaud correct.
07:44 pmichaud we have a Failure class (should be a role), and there can be multiple objecs of the Failure type
07:45 moritz_ I was trying to implement Test.pm's is_deeply in terms of eqv
07:45 moritz_ and found out that 'undef eqv undef' loops in the current implementation
07:45 moritz_ rakudo: say undef === undef
07:45 pmichaud I'd like that very much
07:45 p6eval rakudo 459f5a: OUTPUT«0␤»
07:46 moritz_ the problem is that I can't re-dispatch to ===, because Failure is not a value type
07:46 moritz_ so I was looking for other ways to check if two undef's are the same
07:46 Matt-W can undefs ever be the same?
07:46 moritz_ my version was 'multi infix:<eqv> (Failure $a, Failure $b ) { True }'
07:46 Matt-W can one undefinedness be the same as another?
07:46 moritz_ but that seemed a bit too simply
07:46 moritz_ Matt-W: sure
07:47 moritz_ eqv is structural equality
07:47 moritz_ roughly like $a.perl eq $b.perl
07:47 Matt-W ah
07:47 moritz_ so 'undef eqv undef' should be true
07:47 Matt-W yes, undef eqv undef should hold
07:47 pmichaud starting simple is fine it it works
07:47 moritz_ ok
07:48 pmichaud s/it/if/
07:48 pmichaud (bit of a lag in the internet connection here)
07:48 moritz_ then I'll push my changes
07:51 * Matt-W would write a patch for something, but has to do $dayjob :(
07:51 Matt-W maybe later :)
07:56 Matt-W From recent updates to the spec, it looks like I migth have somewhere to put my file statting code
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08:00 masak morning, rakudoers.
08:04 moritz_ oh hai Matt-W
08:04 moritz_ erm, masak
08:04 moritz_ :-)
08:04 moritz_ both, actually
08:05 masak today it's just Lisbon and me.
08:05 masak I'm thinking of what to go see.
08:08 Matt-W hmm
08:08 Matt-W I know almost nothing relevant about Lisbon
08:09 masak I hear the Museum of Science is s'posed to be good.
08:09 masak mberends gave that as a parting tip.
08:09 Matt-W could be interesting
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08:14 masak` hm, slightly flaky hostel wifi. I'm sitting a bit too far from the source.
08:19 pmichaud just ran into mberends++ and jnthn++ at the airport :-)
08:19 masak` :)
08:19 masak` small town.
08:19 pnu does rakudo implement tying a variable, aka specifying the variable implementation type (my $foo is Bar) other than the default derived from the sigil?
08:19 pmichaud pnu: not yet
08:19 pmichaud (not currently on the short-term roadmap, either)
08:19 pnu so i figured from the source, just verified.. thanks. :-)
08:20 finanalyst pmichaud: when is here to doc planned for?
08:20 pmichaud finanalyst: it will likely occur when we start using STD.pm
08:20 pmichaud currently that's december-ish
08:20 pmichaud we aren't too rushed on heredocs because there's always the various quoting forms available
08:21 masak though it'll be nice when heredocs land.
08:21 pmichaud sure
08:21 finanalyst i have been using the quoting forms, but the autospacing aspect of hereto is attractive
08:21 pmichaud agreed
08:21 masak but I agree; no need to do it before STD.pm-compat.
08:21 pmichaud one could easily write a function to take care of the autospacing aspect
08:22 finanalyst mm
08:22 pmichaud autospace(qq{ ... })
08:22 masak nice idea.
08:22 * moritz_ just wanted to suggest the same
08:22 moritz_ you could just strip off the amounts of whitespaces that make up the last line
08:22 pmichaud for that matter, there could be an attribute to the quoting forms that says "strip 8 leading whitespace"
08:23 pmichaud qq:strip(8) { ... lines with leading eight spaces removed ... }
08:23 finanalyst or a string that is stripped off
08:23 moritz_ then that number would have to be maintained
08:23 finanalyst a sort of stripper function :)
08:23 pmichaud qq:strip { ... lines with leading spaces computed and stripped ... }
08:23 pmichaud qq:strip(*) { ... same as :strip ... }
08:23 moritz_ qq:trim { ... }
08:24 moritz_ we call it trim in another place already
08:24 finanalyst trim implies both sides
08:24 pmichaud trim works too, although there's a semantic conflict with the trim() function
08:24 moritz_ (although it's not exactly the same)
08:24 pmichaud might want to be some variant of :ws
08:24 finanalyst :unindent
08:24 pmichaud oooh, :unindent is nice :-)
08:24 pmichaud anyway, the point is that we could provide a similar capability without having to use a heredoc :-)
08:25 moritz_ but please first spec it, then implement it
08:25 finanalyst it is the indenting aspect that i miss most at present
08:25 pmichaud right, I suspect that's the case for most people who want heredocs
08:25 pmichaud they want the "automatically unindent my string" feature
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08:26 pmichaud so perhaps we want a   Str.unindent  function :-)
08:26 pmichaud my $x = qq{ ... text ... }.unindent
08:26 finanalyst but that implies the qq{} is a single line
08:27 pmichaud not at all
08:27 pmichaud my $x = qq{
08:27 pmichaud text
08:27 pmichaud text
08:27 pmichaud text
08:27 pmichaud text
08:27 pmichaud }.unindent
08:27 Matt-W would that then look at the last line, count the prefix whitespace length and lop that off each line?
08:27 pmichaud Matt-W: that would be one way to do it; another would be to simply find the line with the least amount of ws
08:27 pmichaud and use that
08:28 Matt-W hmm true
08:28 finanalyst better the line with least ws
08:28 Matt-W the last line thing is a heredocish concept
08:28 masak rakudo: sub autospace($str) { my @lines = $str.split("\n"); @lines>>.substr([min] map { indent $_ }, @lines).join("\n") }; sub indent($line) { $line ~~ /^ (\x20*)/; $0.chars }; say autospace(" foo\n  bar\n baz")
08:28 p6eval rakudo 459f5a: OUTPUT«foo␤ bar␤baz␤»
08:28 pmichaud show off.
08:28 Matt-W easy enough to write too
08:28 pmichaud :-)
08:28 pmichaud so, while I'm here speculating about what could be done, masak++ is busy writing the code
08:29 Matt-W isn't there a Str.lines method?
08:29 moritz_ so was I, but masak++ was faster
08:29 finanalyst when will it be in rakudo?
08:30 pmichaud anyway, jnthn++ and I put heredocs as a "nice to have" for Rakudo * but we expect to get them "for free" when we start using STD.pm
08:30 Matt-W in about another five minutes
08:30 finanalyst brill!
08:30 Matt-W pmichaud: I hope so, it would make a lot of people happier to try Perl 6 I think
08:30 Matt-W masak: implemented it in the rakudo tree yet?
08:31 moritz_ please don't put unspecced features in Rakudo
08:31 pmichaud Matt-W: yes, I agree.  But jnthn++ and I both felt that it wouldn't be worth blocking Rakudo * on heredoc support, since there are many reasonable alternatives
08:31 moritz_ not unless there's a *very* good reason (like it is with Q:PIR)
08:32 Matt-W pmichaud: indeed
08:32 finanalyst how about a small module String::Extras
08:32 Matt-W I was just going to call it Unindent.pm
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08:33 pmichaud "Undent.pm"  :-)
08:33 finanalyst Unindent,whatever
08:33 finanalyst Undent is for pulling teeth
08:33 finanalyst :)
08:34 Matt-W do we have is copy yet
08:34 moritz_ yes
08:34 Matt-W woooo
08:35 finanalyst i do need unindent, so if someone does an implementation, please let me know
08:35 Matt-W not that i need it
08:35 Matt-W I just thought of it
08:35 finanalyst i have used is copy
08:36 * Matt-W is turning it into a module
08:37 pmichaud they're calling might flight, so I'll be leaving soon.
08:37 Matt-W okay
08:37 Matt-W have a good flight
08:37 finanalyst safe landing
08:37 Matt-W hope you can get some useful hacking done to pass the time
08:37 pmichaud o/  I'm leaving ... on a jet plane... don't know when I'll be back again ... o/
08:37 pmichaud I have some books to read, puzzles to solve, documentation to write
08:37 pmichaud even sleep would be useful :-)
08:38 pmichaud catch you all on the other side of the atlantic :)
08:40 Matt-W well
08:40 Matt-W I'll still be on the same side of the atlantic...
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08:53 Matt-W finanalyst: I have a module, it works!
08:53 finanalyst how do i get it?
08:55 Matt-W http://matthew-walton.co.uk/unindent.tar.bz2
08:55 Matt-W I shall have to get it into an appropriate repo somewhere
08:55 ihrd joined #perl6
08:56 Matt-W perl6-examples perhaps
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09:41 colomon Anyone out there this morning?
09:41 broquaint joined #perl6
09:42 moritz_ no, I'm indoor :-)
09:42 colomon I've got a question and a bug.  Bug first:
09:42 colomon I actually got a segmentation fault running a simple (but long running) Perl 6 script yesterday.
09:43 moritz_ did it consume much memory?
09:44 colomon quite possibly, if it is leaking memory -- I was getting ready for bed rather than watching my computer when it happened.
09:45 moritz_ anyway, please submit a bug report for it
09:46 colomon I'm running it again now with the Activity Monitor up.
09:46 colomon Worth reporting even if it is running out of memory?
09:47 moritz_ yes; a simple program that leaks memory might help debugging rakudo and/or the GC
09:47 moritz_ if it's a leak
09:47 moritz_ if you just assemble ever larger data structures, there's not much point in reporting
09:49 lisppaste3 colomon pasted "memory leak?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/84969
09:50 colomon No data structures at all, it just iterates on $n.
09:50 colomon It's just chewed up 70 MB of memory...
09:51 * moritz_ has to build a rakudo first
09:51 moritz_ was that your question, or did you want to ask something else?
09:52 colomon My question is about Bignums.  Does Rakudo implement them yet?
09:52 colomon Seems like I'm getting floats instead...
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09:52 moritz_ interesting question
09:53 moritz_ I think that if libgmp is installed while you configured parrot then bigints are supported
09:53 colomon (Script just seg faulted again.  Definitely leaking memory, but I don't think it had come anywhere close to using all the available memory.)
09:53 moritz_ ok, then report please
09:53 colomon I just use perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot to build parrot.
09:53 colomon (will report.)
09:54 moritz_ rakudo: say 2**200
09:54 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«1.60693804425899e+60␤»
09:55 colomon Yup, like that.
09:57 moritz_ hrmpf
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10:01 colomon That's a recent change, isn't it?  It seems like the first version of Rakudo I played with had Bignums enabled.
10:01 moritz_ rakudo: say 2**2000
10:01 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
10:01 moritz_ not all that recent
10:01 moritz_ colomon: are you sure you don't confuse it with pugs?
10:02 colomon Not 100% sure.
10:03 colomon pugs: say [*]1..30
10:03 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "1"␤    expecting dot, ":", "(", term postfix, operator or ","␤    at /tmp/I6kUIO4DYk line 1, column 8␤»
10:03 moritz_ space!
10:03 colomon rakudo: say [*] 1..30
10:03 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«2.65252859812191e+32␤»
10:03 colomon perl6: say [*] 1..30
10:03 p6eval elf 27889: OUTPUT«Parse error in: /tmp/wGZh67vGrA␤panic at line 1 column 0 (pos 0): Can't understand next input--giving up␤WHERE: say [*] 1..30␤WHERE:/\<-- HERE␤  STD_red/prelude.rb:99:in `panic'␤  STD_red/std.rb:76:in `scan_unitstopper'␤  STD_red/std.rb:224:in `comp_unit'␤  STD_red/std.rb:210:in
10:03 p6eval ..`_…
10:03 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«265252859812191058636308480000000␤»
10:03 p6eval ..rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«2.65252859812191e+32␤»
10:04 moritz_ colomon: does rakudo pass t/spec/S03-operators/overflow.t for you (not run by default)?
10:05 colomon 17 tests, all tests successful.
10:06 colomon (rakudobug reported.)
10:06 moritz_ colomon: thanks
10:08 colomon re overflow.t: is a float enough to store those overflows?  seems like a C double would be able to handle them "exactly"...
10:09 moritz_ maybe
10:09 moritz_ since they come from perl 5 originally, that would seem senible.
10:10 colomon In Perl 5 they would be automatic Bignums, wouldn't they?
10:14 wayland76 Matt-W: File statting goes in IO::FSNode, right?
10:14 Matt-W not as I understand it now...
10:15 Matt-W I'm probably wrong though
10:15 Matt-W I really don't get the FSNode stuff
10:15 Matt-W it looks messy
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10:17 wayland76 Well, maybe it is, but it's fairly simple
10:17 wayland76 IO::File is the data from inside the file
10:17 wayland76 IO::FSNode is the data that the filesystem knows about the file
10:18 wayland76 (permissions, type, and stuff)
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10:23 Matt-W FSNode is kind of ugly
10:34 missingthepoint joined #perl6
10:35 missingthepoint hi all :)
10:35 Su-Shee joined #perl6
10:36 Su-Shee good day, stars and starlets. ;)
10:36 missingthepoint hi Su-Shee :)
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10:43 Muixirt hi
10:44 Muixirt why exactly doesn't rakudo work with the jit core?
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10:55 Su-Shee hi missingthepoint :)
10:56 Su-Shee moritz_: seen heise.de?
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11:23 wayland76 Matt-W: In what way is FSNode ugly?
11:26 JimmyZ I think '^Foo.can(Foo, 'bar')' can work too.
11:31 pugs_svn r27890 | jimmy++ | [t/spec/S12-introspection/meta-class.t] added missing grammar spectests for S02 and S12.
11:41 colomon rakudo: (1..3).map({$_ => $_*$_}).perl.say
11:41 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Null PMC access in invoke()␤in Main (/tmp/xCUuiEBOsh:2)␤»
11:42 moritz_ Su-Shee: not yet
11:43 moritz_ nice.
11:44 colomon std: (1..3).map({$_ => $_*$_}).perl.say
11:44 p6eval std 27890: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 38m␤»
11:45 colomon moritz_: rakudobug?
11:45 moritz_ colomon: it's parsed as a hash, not as a block
11:45 moritz_ colomon: which is correct, afaict
11:45 moritz_ std: * ** 2
11:45 p6eval std 27890: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
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11:46 moritz_ std: * => * ** 2
11:46 p6eval std 27890: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
11:46 moritz_ now *that* is an evil block :-)
11:46 colomon moritz_: How do you do a map like that, then?  (Assuming my intent is clear from the code.)
11:47 moritz_ rakudo: (1..3).map({: $_ => $_*$_}).perl.say
11:47 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«Unable to parse block; couldn't find final '}' at line 2, near ": $_ => $_"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3366)␤»
11:48 moritz_ rakudo: (1..3).map({; $_ => $_*$_}).perl.say
11:48 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«[1 => 1, 2 => 4, 3 => 9]␤»
11:48 moritz_ rakudo: (1..3).map(* => * * *).perl.say
11:48 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤in Main (/tmp/vjN8wtjJT9:2)␤»
11:51 colomon Semicolon does the trick for my code.  Is it a hack or proper Perl 6?
11:51 moritz_ it's properl Perl 6
11:52 moritz_ basically { ... } can be a hash or a block
11:52 moritz_ and when ... is a list of pairs (or a single pair), then it's interpreted as a hash ref
11:52 moritz_ if you add a semicolon, it's not a list of pairs anymore
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11:53 colomon At the beginning -- semicolon at the end does not work, right?
11:54 colomon Is there a Pair constructor?  (I haven't looked into Perl 6 OO at all yet.)  Seems like calling one would be a much more elegant way of doing this.
11:55 moritz_ rakudo: (1..3).map({$_ => $_*$_;}).perl.say # I think this should work too
11:55 p6eval rakudo e5a63d:  ( no output )
11:56 moritz_ colomon: no, an explicit pair constructor would be too much to type when you write hashes
11:56 moritz_ rakudo: say 1
11:56 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«1␤»
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11:59 colomon moritz_: semicolon at the end (much more elegant IMO) does not work in my code.
11:59 colomon moritz_++
11:59 colomon I've got to go walk my son and my dog.  Back in an hour or so.
12:01 pugs_svn r27891 | dakkar++ | fixed the tests
12:05 Matt-W wayland76: nomenclature. FSNode - what node? filesystem node. Oooh. Why can't it just say that then?
12:11 pugs_svn r27892 | jimmy++ | [t/spec/S12-introspection/meta-class.t]updated to 9 plans
12:16 JimmyZ where's the weekly perl6 talking?
12:16 moritz_ there's a weekly conference phone call
12:16 moritz_ do you mean that?
12:16 JimmyZ yes
12:16 JimmyZ where'is it now?
12:17 moritz_ there's no "where" for a phone call that's spread over the world
12:18 JimmyZ there were text-record on rakudo.org before. but I can't find it now.
12:18 moritz_ usually they are on chromatic's blog, and can also be found via planetsix
12:19 JimmyZ moritz_: thanks, found it.
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12:43 wayland76 Matt-W: Do you want it to be called IO::FilesytemNode >
12:43 moritz_ what about Filesystem::Node?
12:43 Matt-W I'm not sure
12:43 Matt-W I'm a little wary of the names getting too long
12:43 Matt-W but I'd also like them to be explicit
12:44 wayland76 So am I, that's why I had FSNode
12:44 moritz_ 'File'
12:44 wayland76 moritz_: But isn't that the stuff that's *inside* the file?
12:44 Matt-W File::Guts :P
12:44 moritz_ wayland76: that would be Buf or Str
12:45 moritz_ DirEntry (ouch)
12:45 finanalyst What is wrong with FileNode? File is what's inside. FileNode is where its at
12:46 moritz_ sounds reasonable
12:50 Matt-W mmm
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13:02 colomon moritz_: Those Null PMC accesses we got mucking about with the hash versus the code block in map: worth reporting as bugs?
13:03 finanalyst Matt-W: been experimenting with your unindent. A problem arises with prefixing lines with tabs as opposed to spaces, but then how many spaces does a tab make up? So left with spaces
13:04 finanalyst Matt-W: How can I get your function to be a method on Str classes?
13:04 moritz_ colomon: yes. It should die (at least if there's no semi at all), but null PMC access is always wrong
13:05 Matt-W finanalyst: something I don't quite understand - sometimes a multi sub can be called as a method and it works, but it doesn't seem to in this case (or maybe that was a hole that was cleaned up). The sure way I know to do it is to add it to the Str class with 'is also' (augment, once that's implemented in rakudo)
13:05 Matt-W finanalyst: and yes, tabs are a problem
13:06 moritz_ Matt-W: if you find a case where you can call a multi sub as a method, please submit a bug report.
13:06 KyleHa I forgot I had this window open.
13:06 Matt-W moritz_: it's not supposed to happen?
13:07 moritz_ Matt-W: no
13:07 finanalyst i did thin
13:07 Matt-W moritz_: okay, good. nice to know one way or the other, and it doesn't really make much sense to do so :)
13:07 Matt-W epseically not when you've got augment class
13:07 finanalyst is augment implemented? if so whats the syntax?
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13:08 Matt-W augment is not
13:08 Matt-W we have the old one instead
13:08 Matt-W class Str is also { }
13:09 colomon rakudo: (1..3).map({$_ => $_*$_;}).perl.say
13:09 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Null PMC access in invoke()␤in Main (/tmp/8McBNVU08o:2)␤»
13:10 colomon Okay, reported.
13:10 finanalyst rakudo: class Str is also {method tail() {$_~'_tail'}}; my $a = '123'; say $a.coda;
13:10 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«Method 'coda' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤»
13:11 finanalyst rakudo: class Str is also rakudo: class Str is also {method tail() {$_~'_tail'}}; my $a = '123'; say $a.coda;{method tail() {$_~'_tail'}}; my $a = '123'; say $a.tail;
13:11 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«Unable to parse class definition at line 2, near "rakudo: cl"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:1506)␤»
13:11 finanalyst rakudo: class Str is also rakudo: class Str is also {method tail() {$_~'_tail'}}; my $a = '123'; say $a.tail;
13:11 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«Unable to parse class definition at line 2, near "rakudo: cl"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:1506)␤»
13:13 Matt-W rakudo: class Str is also { method tail () { this ~ '_tail' } }; my $a = '123'; say $a.tail;
13:13 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub this␤»
13:13 finanalyst what is wrong here, please?
13:13 Matt-W rakudo: class Str is also { method tail () { self ~ '_tail' } }; my $a = '123'; say $a.tail;
13:13 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«123_tail␤»
13:14 Matt-W what's wrong is that in my IRC window it looks like you've got half pastes landing in the middle of your lines
13:14 finanalyst rakudo: class Str is also { method tail () { $self ~ '_tail' } }; my $a = '123'; say $a.tail;
13:14 p6eval rakudo e5a63d: OUTPUT«Symbol '$self' not predeclared in tail (/tmp/hkaLVN6HMt:2)␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3366)␤»
13:14 Matt-W and you're defining a method that's not the same as the one you're calling
13:15 finanalyst 1st 2 tries were hamfisted, but third seemed to be ok
13:15 moritz_ there's no $self
13:15 moritz_ it's just self (without sigil)
13:15 finanalyst just seen that self without sigil works
13:16 Matt-W $self only works if you put it in explicitly
13:16 Matt-W as in method tail($self:)
13:16 Matt-W but I see little reason for that when you've always got self
13:16 finanalyst thanx
13:16 Matt-W I just keep calling it this, because I write C++ for a living
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13:24 [particle] jimmy?
13:24 [particle] the spaces in the specs for "Perl 6" are non-breaking for a reason.
13:25 [particle] oh, looks like moritz replyed...
13:26 moritz_ [particle]: he's called JimmyZ in here, I think
13:29 JimmyZ It's br0ke here
13:31 moritz_ what is broken, and in what way?
13:32 JimmyZ It's displayed as traditional Chinese
13:32 JimmyZ Is there any reason to use \xC2A0
13:32 JimmyZ Is there any reason to use \xC2A0?
13:33 moritz_ yes, I explained that on p6l
13:33 [particle] non-breaking space
13:33 moritz_ "Perl 6" and "Perl 5" are words
13:33 moritz_ so we don't want to break between the l and the digit
13:33 [particle] so it doesn't ever render as Perl\n6
13:33 moritz_ if your editor displays it incorrectly, you have to set the character encoding to UTF-8
13:34 moritz_ but changing the spec because your local setup is broken is not an option.
13:34 moritz_ we need non-ASCII characters in the specs anyway
13:34 JimmyZ I see
13:34 JimmyZ sorry for that :(
13:34 moritz_ just revert that commit
13:35 moritz_ then all is fine again
13:35 [particle] indeed
13:35 explorer joined #perl6
13:36 * ancients is away (4[O.F.F.L.I.N.E])
13:36 Matt-W again?
13:36 Khisanth joined #perl6
13:37 was kicked by moritz_: color spamming
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14:06 * diakopter wonders for what O.F.F.L.I.N. stands
14:06 moritz_ diakopter: there's an E at the end
14:07 moritz_ maybe the color code prevented you from seeing it
14:07 moritz_ (they also confuse my IRC logging bot a bit)
14:12 payload joined #perl6
14:17 diakopter I did see the E
14:24 IronMan joined #perl6
14:24 IronMan Hi - I needed some help with XML parsing/subStr() method
14:24 IronMan how to extract the value of "cur" from this XML format.. (the value can be of any number of digits)
14:24 IronMan <BRS id="5" lWM="0" hWM="0" cur="0" int="0.0" sT="1249563008081" lST="1249606773948" lB="0" uB="0">
14:27 moritz_ IronMan: do you want to do it in Perl 6?
14:28 IronMan Hi moritz_ I'm on v5.10.0
14:28 moritz_ IronMan: then you're wrong here
14:29 IronMan Ok
14:30 IronMan left #perl6
14:30 pugs_svn r27893 | jimmy++ | [Spec]reverted \x20 to \xC2A0. "Perl 6" and "Perl 5" are words, so we don't want to break between the l and the digit, and it doesn't ever render as Perl\n6. [particle]++ and moritz_++ for explanation.
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14:39 JimmyZ p6l?
14:39 moritz_ perl6-language mailing list
14:40 JimmyZ thanks.
14:41 rfordinal joined #perl6
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14:51 pugs_svn r27894 | moritz++ | [t/spec] fix a smartlink in class.t
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15:36 wayland76 lambdabot: @tell ancients Some people seem to be getting quite annoyed at your IRC client.  Specifically, they don't like the colour-coding escape sequences it sends to the channel, and the way it continually announces you're offline.
15:36 lambdabot Consider it noted.
15:37 wayland76 lambdabot: @tell ancients I don't mind myself, but it seems quite a number of the regulars are getting annoyed
15:37 lambdabot Consider it noted.
15:37 wayland76 After all, if we only comment on it when he goes offline, then he'll never see it
15:37 Su-Shee wayland76: he's doing it in other channels too and has been kicked out of #perl the same time as here today.
15:38 BinGOs jiggedy
15:38 wayland76 Anyway, bedtime for me.  'Night all
15:39 wayland76 (not to be confused with rig-a-jig jig)
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16:00 mberends good afternoon, #perl6*! There must have been a prize draw that I did not know about, because I just had a "workout with jnthn++" on the flight from Lisbon to London. Some heavy lifting, but not physically.
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16:41 rindolf Hi all.
16:42 Su-Shee hi. ;)
16:42 rindolf Su-Shee: what's up?
16:43 Su-Shee rindolf: food now. :)
16:43 rindolf Su-Shee: f00d!!!
16:50 pugs_svn r27895 | masak++ | [t/spec/S32-str] re-fudged encode.t after Rakudo patch
16:52 mberends masak++ indeed
16:54 explorer joined #perl6
17:03 hanekomu joined #perl6
17:03 hah mhh..  'return\n  unless $foo;' is still allowed? => "Could not find non-existent sub unless"
17:04 hah without the newline it works as expected ;-)
17:07 mberends hah: interesting, just tried it here too. various kinds of whitespace matter, it seems
17:08 rfordinal3643 joined #perl6
17:08 mberends it's probably in the same category as semicolon required after closing curly only if followed by more on the same line
17:09 mberends @seen DanielC
17:09 lambdabot Last time I saw DanielC was when I left ##english, ##freebsd, ##hrg, ##logic, #arch-haskell, #concatenative, #darcs, #dreamlinux-es, #friendly-coders, #functionaljava, #gentoo-haskell, #gentoo-uy, #
17:09 lambdabot ghc, #haskell, #haskell-blah, #haskell-books, #haskell-freebsd, #haskell-in-depth, #haskell-overflow, #haskell-soc, #haskell.cz, #haskell.de, #haskell.dut, #haskell.es, #haskell.fi, #haskell.fr, #
17:09 lambdabot haskell.hr, #haskell.it, #haskell.jp, #haskell.no, #haskell.ru, #haskell.se, #haskell_ru, #jhc, #jtiger, #macosx, #macosxdev, #novalang, #perl6, #rosettacode, #scala, #scannedinavian, #unicycling, #
17:09 lambdabot xmonad and #yi 2m 8d 12h 18m 19s ago.
17:09 mberends perspicacious bot
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17:17 Su-Shee wow. ;))
17:17 mberends how wow?
17:17 Su-Shee the bot I meant. :)
17:18 mberends smart-ass if you ask me ;-)
17:18 Su-Shee besides from the daily perl 6 awe I'm not wowing out loud here. :)
17:19 mberends Su-Shee, YAPC in Lisbon was awesome. You really should try to attend the next one in Pisa.
17:20 Su-Shee mberends: I so very much wanted to but due to "the crisis[tm]" my clients didn't really pay in time. (or not at all..) :/
17:20 Su-Shee oh, pisa, nice. :)
17:21 mberends Su-Shee, I share such pain. The week away was pain relief, now it's back to the stresses of survival in hard times.
17:23 mberends it's possible to do it on a low budget (hostels etc) so the most crucial thing is to manage taking the time off. The reward is really big though :)
17:23 Su-Shee mberends: I start a new perl job next week which is employed with a nice salary and I so will go to the next yapc...
17:23 Su-Shee (and the desktop summit which also had an extremely nice program I missed entirely)
17:24 mberends Su-Shee: did you make any headway with Parrot to GUI bindings?
17:26 Su-Shee mberends: nothing to show, but gathered a load of knowledge about X and GUI and a little NCI
17:28 mberends Su-Shee: if you make any running examples, will you put them into the Pugs repository?
17:30 mberends For my part, I returned from Lisbon with two Parrot issues that were blocking me exposed, and workarounds to allow me to continue anyway :-)
17:30 Su-Shee mberends: sure, and into my github.
17:30 Su-Shee mberends: you have seen tene's enlightenment window example?
17:31 Tene mberends: what do you want to know about gui bindings?  I got bindings to the Enlightenment libraries working.
17:32 mberends Su-Shee, I did, and ... here comes Tene
17:32 Tene I'm leaving shortly, but here for now.
17:32 Su-Shee :)
17:34 mberends Tene: hi, yes the Enlightenment example looked good, but istr that you did not want to publish the source just yet. Also, other immediately asked about binding other GUI libraries. I guess you had a reason for targeting Enlightenment.
17:34 mberends *others
17:35 Tene I targeted Enlightenment because it's fun and looks prettier than GTK IMO.
17:35 Tene That's all.
17:35 Tene It's up on github, though, if you want to try it.
17:35 Tene Or, I'd be glad to help anyone else get any other library wrapped with NCI.
17:35 charsbar joined #perl6
17:36 mberends Tene: thanks, I'll try it. URL?
17:37 Tene http://github.com/tene/par​rot-elementary/tree/master
17:37 Tene Let me know if it works for you. :)
17:37 * mberends git clones...
17:39 mberends Tene: your "self portrait" looked great in masak++'s presentation :)
17:39 Tene Heh. :)
17:39 Tene It's not too far off.
17:41 mberends that figures :)
17:48 Tene mberends: I don't actually remember if I committed the NCI sigs for the Elementary functions to Parrot.
17:48 Tene mberends: so if you get something weird about "couldn't compile NCI sig" or something, tell me.
17:48 mberends Tene: on Ubuntu 9.04 here package 'evas' is missing, presumably part of Enlightenment.
17:49 Tene mberends: yes, that's the big issue with using enlightenment libraries.  No distro actually ships them, and they're incomplete/unfinished.
17:49 __ash__ is there a working version of the parrot/examples/nci/Mysql? or parrot/ect/SQLite3?
17:49 Tene __ash__: not yet.  there are several people planning on working on those soon, though.
17:50 mberends Tene: so I guess I build E17 from source?
17:50 Tene mberends: yes, you can use http://www.rasterman.com/files/get_e.sh to do that, or there are some third-party repositories that provide packages, iirc.
17:51 __ash__ Tene: okay, just wonder, I saw them, tried compiling them and running their tests from the directories they are in but they both failed those
17:51 Tene __ashyes, they've bitrotted heavily. :(
17:51 mberends Tene: thanks, that's a great help. (almost typed tanks)
17:51 Tene mberends: after you get the EFL stuff installed, you'll find out that Elementary isn't included in that, and you'll need to download that separately and install that. :)
17:53 mberends Tene: it's worth it as long as the thing works in the end. (yak shaving)++
17:55 rfordinal joined #perl6
17:57 * mberends watches evas check out from svn...
18:13 mberends so, sh get_e.sh says "pushd: not found" :/    bash strikes again! redoing...
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18:24 pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6
18:25 mofino good day
18:25 moritz_ oh hai
18:26 japhb pmichaud: On the fun side of the Atlantic yet?
18:27 kimtaro joined #perl6
18:27 pmichaud I've always found both sides of the Atlantic to be fun.  :-)
18:28 pmichaud But yes, I've successfully hopped the pond.
18:29 zamolxes joined #perl6
18:29 japhb And when will you be falling over unconscious?  :-)
18:29 pmichaud hopefully not before I board my next flight home :-)
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19:10 __ash__ is it supposed to be augment or is also ? to append onto an open class?
19:10 moritz_ it's supposed to be 'augment'
19:10 moritz_ but it is not yet
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19:15 KyleHa rakudo: my List $x = 1,2,3;say $x.WHAT;
19:15 p6eval rakudo 7717c4: OUTPUT«Array()␤»
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19:44 rindolf rakudo: 5.WHAT
19:44 p6eval rakudo 7717c4:  ( no output )
19:44 rindolf rakudo: say 5.WHAT
19:44 p6eval rakudo 7717c4: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
19:44 rindolf rakudo: say 5.7WHAT
19:44 p6eval rakudo 7717c4: OUTPUT«Syntax error at line 2, near "say 5.7WHA"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3366)␤»
19:44 rindolf rakudo: say 5.7.WHAT
19:44 p6eval rakudo 7717c4: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
19:51 rindolf Do macros work in rakudo yet?
19:53 [particle] no
19:53 rindolf [particle]: I see.
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21:23 cxreg rakudo: multi foo {}; multi foo {}; foo();
21:23 p6eval rakudo 7717c4: OUTPUT«Ambiguous dispatch to multi 'foo'. Ambiguous candidates had signatures:␤:()␤:()␤in Main (/tmp/tsng3FETYP:2)␤»
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21:30 __ash__ rakudo: class Base { method foo { '::foo' } }; class T is Base { method foo { 'T::foo'; self.Base::foo() } }; my T $a .= new; say $a.foo;
21:30 p6eval rakudo 7717c4: OUTPUT«Method 'Base::foo' not found for invocant of class 'T'␤»
21:30 __ash__ is there a work around for calling parent methods within a child?
21:30 __ash__ (eg. super)
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22:07 __ash__ so there isn't a way at the moment to call a super method if you override it?
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22:42 s1n yay, when i get paid, i'll finally be able to get a netbook for the vanpool!
22:42 KyleHa joined #perl6
22:42 s1n that means i'll have time again to hack on rakudo
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23:42 KyleHa mberends: Is it true that you did an outstanding presentation on Perl 6 for the Perl 5 programmer?
23:45 mberends KyleHa: it's great to get positive feedback: when rehearsing with masak++, it overran the timeslot by 10 minutes, so a few of the final slides were skipped. The overall response of the Perl 5 attendees at YAPC:EU towards Perl 6 was more positive than we had expected. So yes, it was very nice to have given the talk :-)
23:45 KyleHa I heard also that it would make an appearance int he pugs repo.  Can you confirm or deny?
23:46 KyleHa s/int he/in the/
23:46 mberends KyleHa: confirm, it will be within 24 hours. Also, I'm encouraged to offer to repeat the presentation at other gatherings, for example London.pm
23:47 KyleHa Hurray!  I'm looking forward to it!
23:47 mberends :)
23:48 mberends now the Perl workshops in Latvia and Italy are very tempting...
23:50 KyleHa I wouldn't mind going to Italy for a time, but I couldn't even make it to Pittsburgh in June, so I think Europe is even further away than the literal distance.
23:52 mberends The same problem here, in the opposite direction. We can hope to do it eventually, as TimToady++ and pmichaud++ and several others do :)

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