Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-08-09

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 colomon jnthn++
00:01 colomon Though that's disappointing -- it really hamstrings the elegance of operator overloading in a lot of cases.
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00:23 __ash__ I found a kind of hack to get around not being able to explicitly call role methods directly from within a class, http://gist.github.com/164492 if anyone else has seen this issue. I know in the spec they have a different solution but it doesn't work right now
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01:16 meppl good night
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01:33 missingthepoint good night meppl :)
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01:51 cognominal What is the natural way to express in Perl  6 this XML BNF rule ?
01:51 cognominal [17]   PITarget   ::=    Name - (('X' | 'x') ('M' | 'm') ('L' | 'l'))
01:52 cognominal token pitarget { <Name> - :i xml }    # but what is the equivalent of -  to say match the left except if it matches the right
01:53 cognominal should I write a closure to reject if the name matches xml ?
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03:34 pmichaud cognominal:    /   <!before :i xml> <name> /
03:34 pmichaud or slightly clearer:
03:35 pmichaud cognominal:    /   <!before :i 'xml'> <name> /
03:35 pmichaud which means "match <name> but not 'xml'"
03:35 pmichaud one can also do
03:36 pmichaud / [ 'xml' :: <!> || <name> ] /
03:37 pmichaud when we have closures implemented, it can be
03:37 pmichaud /  <name> <!{ $<name> eq 'xml' }> /
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03:53 eternaleye rakudo: class Base { method foo { '::foo' } }; class T is Base { method foo { 'T::foo'; Base::foo(self:) } }; my T $a .= new; say $a.foo;
03:53 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "(self:) } "␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3366)␤»
03:58 missingthepoint Pm++ for a clear answer :)
03:59 pmichaud ...or many of them :-)
04:00 missingthepoint :)
04:05 missingthepoint rakudo: say ('pmichaud++') xx 4 # :-)
04:05 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«pmichaud++pmichaud++pmichaud++pmichaud++␤»
04:08 missingthepoint hopefully lambdabot will parse that ok... :)
04:09 missingthepoint pmichaud: do you have any projects you could use help on?
04:10 pmichaud undoubtedly I do, but my mind is a bit frazzled at the moment
04:10 missingthepoint i should have some CSV-handling code for you today
04:10 pmichaud oooh!  yes!
04:10 pmichaud \o/
04:10 pmichaud I'd like it to be able to parse docs/spectest-progress.csv :-)
04:10 missingthepoint no
04:11 missingthepoint i set my goal slightly higher...
04:11 missingthepoint gimme a few hours
04:11 missingthepoint :O)
04:11 pmichaud no rush -- I'll likely be heading off to bed here soon.
04:12 missingthepoint no problem, hopefully you'll enjoy it in the morning... (and i suspected that was your purpose for the CSV code)
04:13 missingthepoint hopefully you get over the jet lag soon
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04:14 pmichaud argggggh
04:14 * missingthepoint hands pmichaud a warm beverage and some sleeping pills
04:15 missingthepoint :)
04:15 pmichaud I've just made a small change to rakudo to fix up immediate blocks
04:15 pmichaud as far as I can tell, the change produces _exactly_ the same PIR output for a small test program
04:15 pmichaud but one instance works, another fails.
04:16 missingthepoint does the small test program adequately exercise the change?
04:16 pmichaud yes
04:17 pmichaud oh, hmm.
04:17 missingthepoint hmm
04:17 pmichaud I think I know where the change might be.
04:17 pmichaud it's not in the PIR from my code -- it's in the generated setting code.
04:17 pmichaud that would make sense.
04:28 missingthepoint rakudo: sub foo(Array @bar) { say @bar.elems }; my @a = <quux florble blaarg>; foo(@a)
04:29 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«Parameter type check failed; expected Positional[Array], but got Array for @bar in call to foo␤in sub foo (/tmp/R1V0nOYrMe:2)␤called from Main (/tmp/R1V0nOYrMe:2)␤»
04:44 missingthepoint rakudobug, or am i doing something silly?
04:44 pmichaud Array @bar means "an array of arrays"
04:44 missingthepoint or NIY?
04:45 missingthepoint ah, something silly :))
04:45 pmichaud you're sending it an array of strings.
04:45 pmichaud it's not necessary to say "Array @foo" -- @foo is already known to be an array.
04:45 missingthepoint thanks :)
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04:45 takadonet hey
04:45 takadonet all
04:46 missingthepoint i didn't think through the semantics of Array in combination with the sigil
04:46 missingthepoint takadonet: go ahead...
04:46 takadonet with what?
04:47 missingthepoint ah, that was a greeting. hi ;)
04:47 missingthepoint (thought you were about to announce something profound... :-)
04:48 takadonet it was. Just hacking away creating a parser with a grammar
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06:43 Su-Shee good morning!
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07:12 azawawi std: "hi"
07:12 p6eval std 27911: OUTPUT«ok 00:04 37m␤»
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08:09 payload a strange error. it "forgets" a method? http://gist.github.com/164660
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09:22 masak morning, starfishes.
09:28 pugs_svn r27912 | azawawi++ | [Cursor] TMP_PREFIX is now working again.
09:30 moritz_ good morning
09:32 masak everything I touch turns into bugs... :P
09:32 masak I'm like the software kind Midas.
09:33 masak s/kind/king/
09:34 masak I'd better start from the beginning: I wanted perl6eval to print "$d days left to April", and to calculate $d herself using Temporal.pm.
09:34 masak only way I can do that, given the current implementation, is using .epoch on two dates and calculating the difference.
09:35 masak fair enough, but .epoch is behaving very strangely. so I'm checking http://www.tondering.dk/claus/cal/calendar29.txt now to see whether the algorithm in Temporal.pm is correct.
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09:49 pugs_svn r27913 | azawawi++ | [Cursor] TMP_PREFIX is not applicable in ->parsefile
09:50 masak ok, here's what's bugging me:
09:50 masak line 123 of src/setting/Temporal.pm
09:51 masak both $jd and $.time.second are given a multiplicative factor of 1.
09:51 masak that's a unit error, as far as I can see.
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09:53 masak (because $jd has a unit of days, and $.time.second has a unit of seconds)
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09:59 azawawi hi
09:59 masak o/
10:01 moritz_ masak: if you want p6eval to print something upon each invocation, for speed reasons it should be in Perl 5
10:01 azawawi masak: so what's new in the world of Perl 6?
10:01 masak moritz_: oh, that's not my goal. :)
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10:01 moritz_ big buzz is going on
10:01 masak azawawi: there's PR abroad!
10:01 moritz_ http://use.perl.org/~pmichaud/journal/ read the last two entries
10:03 masak phenny: tell mberends in src/setting/Temporal.pm, line 123-124, $jd and $.time.second have the same multiplicative factor, despite being of different units. this puzzles/concerns me -- what am I missing?
10:03 phenny masak: I'll pass that on when mberends is around.
10:04 masak moritz_: my goal was to make it part of my morning routine to calculate the days remaining till April, using perl6eval. I haven't used Temporal.pm much yet, so I thought it'd be a good way to exercise it.
10:04 masak seems I was right.
10:05 pugs_svn r27914 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] Added a MOVED_TO_PADRE sign...
10:06 pugs_svn r27915 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] first batch of old code deletion
10:06 pugs_svn r27916 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] Second batch of deletions...
10:07 pugs_svn r27917 | azawawi++ | [S:H:P6] Converted sign to UNIX format
10:10 moritz_ masak: ok
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11:16 masak http://use.perl.org/~pmichaud/journal/39424 # pmichaud++ for ^100
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11:26 finanalyst pmichaud: ping hi
11:27 finanalyst @seen pmichaud
11:27 lambdabot pmichaud is in #perl6. I last heard pmichaud speak 6h 42m 10s ago.
11:48 colomon masak: Yeah, that is a sweet, sweet blog post.  Wish I'd had it handy when chatting with a visitor to the channel yesterday...
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11:50 masak I'm not sure anyone could have foreseen the positive reaction pmichaud's lightning talk had on the YAPC crowd. it was electrifying.
11:51 masak I'm sure we'll have lots of "Perl 6.0.0 being released in April?" and "but you told me Perl 6 would be done in April!" in the coming months.
11:51 masak it is inevitable.
11:52 masak but seeing the audience's reaction at YAPC, I suddenly realized that what people have been waiting for is some kind of phase shift, no matter if it's 6.0.0 or not. people want to hear "we've gotten this far, come see how cool it is already".
11:55 masak Rakudo is well worth that kind of attention today. if the #perl6 crowd manage to deliver on the ambitious roadmap that pmichaud has outlined until April -- and previous similar promises tell me that we will -- then Rakudo Star will be beyond awesome.
12:03 colomon I certainly agree that Rakudo is worth attention today, and hope Rakudo Star will be beyond awesome, indeed.
12:04 colomon I must admit, though, that I've had a rough week with my personal Rakudo usage.  I keep on bumping up against huge performance issues and NYIs.
12:05 masak I'm not surprised.
12:05 colomon It makes for a whiplash experience between "This is the coolest language ever!!!!" and "Except this key point isn't implemented yet," or "It's so incredibly slow it's useless!"
12:05 masak Parrot does have huge performance issues.
12:05 masak I'm not steeped enough in Parrot development to be able to say what would be needed to address them.
12:06 colomon I'm about to e-mail pmichaud on that very subject.  :)
12:06 masak as for the NYIs in Rakudo, is there an NYI you think is _not_ slated for April?
12:06 colomon (Once I finish feeding my boy...)
12:06 masak because my feeling is that many of the most bothersome ones will land before then.
12:06 colomon No, I except they will be done then.  But it's frustrating now.
12:07 colomon Don't get me wrong, I still have all the faith in the world in the development team.
12:08 masak colomon: well, if you're not careful I'll start telling you about developing on top of Rakudo last summer. :P take a look at the spectests graph and see how it looked by June 2008.
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12:08 masak that was the Rakudo we built November on.
12:08 colomon It's just that a week ago I thought it was very nearly ready for use, and this week has put the lie to that.
12:08 masak colomon: understood.
12:08 masak and the feedback is very welcome.
12:09 masak also, I do see the danger in overpromising by saying "awesome! awesome!" and then people will try it and see a sluggish piece of NYI.
12:09 colomon Yeah, that's a bit of what I'm worried about at the moment.
12:10 colomon I started work on a vector class, just to see what I could do.
12:10 colomon And it is soooooo beautiful for simply implementing the basic operations.
12:10 colomon And I can overload dot and cross operators using the actual symbols -- huge win!
12:11 masak aye.
12:11 colomon But then it turns out I can't overload + and then normal Num::+ in the overloaded function.
12:11 masak :/
12:11 colomon known bug, it turns out.
12:11 masak aye.
12:12 colomon It's kind of like being a kid in the most awesome candy shop ever...
12:12 colomon ...only to be told half the candies are poisonous.  :)
12:12 masak :)
12:14 masak well, we do keep a list of poisonous candy. and pmichaud++ and jnthn++ are regularly going over the list and removing the poison from the candy.
12:14 masak even with the more peripheral people helping and fixing bugs, clearly the bottleneck is developer tuits.
12:15 masak so if you want the process to go faster, consider joining. or paying someone to fix Rakudo bugs.
12:15 colomon I've implemented vectors a number of times over the years, and the p6 version is the clear winner, hands down, in ease of implementation and expressiveness.  It's amazing how much the language rocks.
12:15 masak nod.
12:16 masak I also think it's very important to be clear about expectations.
12:16 colomon joining or paying: like I say, I'm e-mail pmichaud.  won't say more than that yet.  :)
12:17 colomon s/e-mail/e-mailing/
12:17 masak the numbers bandied about for comparing Perl 5 against Rakudo in terms of speed are something like 500 to 700, I think.
12:17 colomon I got 5000x in one of my scripts this week.
12:17 masak oh, let's say 5000, then.
12:18 masak I'll call this number the Rakudo Sluggishness Factor.
12:18 masak I think an RSF of 3 would be theoretically possible. and very, very good.
12:18 masak but even an RSF of 20 would be acceptable, at least in the early days.
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12:19 * moritz_ wants a negative RSF
12:19 Su-Shee yeah, well obviously getting from a parrot to a camel goes by the way of a snake. ;)
12:19 Su-Shee aeh. snail.
12:19 pugs_svn r27918 | azawawi++ | [perl6] Removing obsolete smop_highlight.
12:19 masak "famous Freudian slips" :)
12:20 Su-Shee I do the same with peas and pears :)
12:20 colomon masak: agreed, both with 3 and 20.
12:21 pugs_svn r27919 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] Upgraded to jQuery 1.3.2
12:23 masak phenny: tell mberends non-destructive beauty patch to Temporal.pm: http://gist.github.com/164752 -- I'd apply it myself, but suddenly felt a review wouldn't hurt.
12:23 phenny masak: I'll pass that on when mberends is around.
12:25 pugs_svn r27920 | azawawi++ | [STD_syntax_highlight] Deleted jquery 1.2.6
12:30 finanalyst @seen Matt-W
12:30 lambdabot Matt-W is in #perl6. I last heard Matt-W speak 1d 22h 54m 7s ago.
12:33 finanalyst colomon: rather than + how about 'add'? At least for the time being
12:35 colomon finanalyst: actually, I just found different Unicode math symbols to use as a work around.
12:35 carlin Silly question, how do I create a directory? - "Could not find non-existent sub mkdir"
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12:36 colomon run "mkdir xxxx" will do it, I believe.
12:36 finanalyst colomon: much better idea
12:36 cyocum hi I have perl 6 grammar question is there anyone about who might have a few minutes?
12:36 finanalyst colomon: will use it on something I am doing!
12:37 carlin colomon: I get "Could not find non-existent sub mkdir"
12:37 masak cyocum: sure.
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12:37 colomon could you actually use "add" as the name of an infix operator?
12:37 cyocum hi masak
12:37 masak colomon: you can.
12:37 colomon carlin:  No, "run" is the p6 command.
12:37 masak cyocum: oh hai
12:38 cyocum masak: I am writing a very, very simple grammar to parse dice roles a la D&D but I cannot seem to find out what is in the match object that comes back from the parse
12:38 colomon carlin: "run" is the rough equivalent of "system" in p5.
12:39 masak cyocum: ok. `say $/.perl` is a good idea then.
12:39 cyocum masak: ok..one sec
12:39 carlin Ah, so there is no mkdir() method like in p5?
12:39 masak carlin: not yet in Rakudo, anyway.
12:40 masak carlin: both S29 and S32-IO mention a mkdir function.
12:40 cyocum masak: huh...nothing coming out of that...I tried "$/.perl.say" and got "Method 'say' not found for invocant of class ''...is there a place where I can throw up the code?
12:40 pugs_svn r27921 | azawawi++ | [spec_highlight] Copy JQuery to parent directory
12:41 masak cyocum: try `say $/.perl`
12:41 masak cyocum: gist.github.com
12:41 cyocum masak: cool..tried that and got "undef" so I am doing something stupid somewhere
12:41 carlin masak: Oh I see, thanks
12:42 masak cyocum: s/stupid/unusual/ :)
12:43 cyocum masak: lol...ok I have put it up at http://gist.github.com/164758
12:44 masak cyocum: my $match = DiceParser::TOP("2d6");
12:44 masak this stands out as the unusual part to me.
12:44 cyocum yep...I saw that in an RT IIRC
12:45 masak try `DiceParser.parse('2d6')`
12:45 masak or even `DiceParser.parse('2d6') or die "Could not match"`
12:45 cyocum masak: cool...I tried that from the formal spec but couldn't seem to get it to work..I will give it another try
12:46 cyocum masak: ok..I am farther now!
12:46 masak rakudo: regex foo { foo }; say foo('foo').perl
12:46 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«Method 'perl' not found for invocant of class 'PGE;Match'␤»
12:47 * masak submits rakudobug
12:47 cyocum masak: thanks!
12:47 masak np :)
12:47 cyocum masak: follow on question...how to I get stuff out of the match object and do pesudo-useful things with it?
12:48 pugs_svn r27922 | azawawi++ | [spec_highlight] make sure that the output html directory is there
12:48 masak rakudo: grammar G { regex TOP { <foo> }; regex foo { foo } }; G.parse("foo"); say $/<foo>
12:49 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«foo␤»
12:49 masak cyocum: like that.
12:49 cyocum ah...I thought it worked like a hash
12:49 masak rakudo: grammar G { regex TOP { <foo> }; regex foo { \d+ } }; G.parse('42'); say $/<foo> # probably easier to grok
12:49 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«42␤»
12:50 masak cyocum: it works as a hash, but also as an array (for numbered captures)
12:50 cyocum masak: ok
12:50 masak I'm sure S05 can explain it better than I, if you're curious for details.
12:50 cyocum masak: yeah...I got lost in all the detail :)
12:51 masak that happens to all of us. :)
12:51 masak you need to attack it repeatedly, and mix reading with experimenting.
12:51 cyocum masak: like learning how to swim in a way...
12:53 masak I don't know, I didn't read any literature in order to learn how to swim :P
12:53 cyocum masak: lol
12:53 cyocum masak: I think I found another bug
12:53 masak \o/
12:53 cyocum masak: well, I forgot the final ; in the line and it still worked
12:53 cyocum I will show you
12:54 masak if it's after a '}', then that's to be expected.
12:54 cyocum no...take a look: http://gist.github.com/164758
12:54 masak the line at the end?
12:54 cyocum yeah
12:54 masak that's OK. not a bug.
12:55 cyocum OH
12:55 masak thanks for playing, though. :)
12:55 cyocum masak: that's...odd behavior
12:55 cyocum masak: lol..thanks
12:55 masak no, Perl 5 works the same.
12:55 cyocum masak: oh...I never noticed that
12:55 masak you can always skip semicolons if they're not used to delimit statements
12:56 cyocum I knew you could do it in map { } @array like statements
12:56 cyocum wait...drunken pm conversation coming back to me now...
12:57 cyocum yeah...you can do that but I learn C/C++ before I learned perl so I tend not to do that
12:57 cyocum *learned
12:57 masak yes, the rules for semicolons are different in the C/C++ group.
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13:04 cyocum ok new question
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13:04 cyocum this might seem rather silly
13:05 * masak listens
13:05 cyocum but what's the difference between regex, rule, and token in a grammar?
13:05 masak that's a good question, not a silly one.
13:05 cyocum ah
13:05 cyocum :)
13:05 masak I asked it about 10 times before the answer stuck.
13:05 masak basically, when in doubt, use regex.
13:06 cyocum ok
13:06 masak then there are two pieces of behaviour that you can add, something like good defaults.
13:06 masak the first one is what 'token' does, called ratchet behaviour.
13:07 masak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratchet_(device)
13:07 masak a ratchet prevents things from going packwards.
13:07 masak s/packwards/backwards/
13:07 cyocum ok...like commit in P::RD?
13:07 masak very possibly.
13:07 cyocum ok
13:08 masak I don't know about that feature, but I find it likely.
13:08 cyocum btw: I am translating a P::RD grammar into P6
13:08 masak cool.
13:08 masak the second default... you know that whitespace is insignificant in Perl 6 regexes, yes?
13:08 cyocum yes
13:08 cyocum like /x
13:08 masak aye.
13:09 masak now, 'rule' takes the 'token' behaviour, and also adds a special kind of whitespace significance.
13:09 cyocum OH
13:09 masak put simply, if you put in whitespace in the rule, whitespace will be allowed there in the match.
13:10 masak or, as with the case with whitespace between two identifiers, it will be required.
13:10 cyocum right...that's why things where getting weird
13:10 masak and it all works under the hood.
13:10 cyocum ok
13:13 cyocum masak: one further question as this seems to be coming along nicely now...is there some LWP like thing in p6 that I can use?  I know something about Web.pm but I am not sure if that is what I am looking for...
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13:14 KyleHa Good morning #perl6
13:14 masak KyleHa: oh hai
13:14 masak cyocum: so you want to pull down pages from the web, is that correct?
13:14 moritz_ cyocum: I think cosimo wrote something LWP::Simple-like
13:15 moritz_ http://github.com/cosimo/perl6-lwp-simple/tree
13:15 cyocum masak: well, like that..I want to get content from a URL..HTML is just a side benefit
13:15 masak cyocum: what moritz_ said.
13:15 cyocum @moritz_: Thanks!
13:15 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
13:16 masak also, I'd say it's not central to Web.pm, but might end up there depending on future decisions.
13:16 cyocum moritz_: thanks!
13:16 cyocum masak: cool
13:16 masak for now, you're on your own for solutions -- but, that said, I'd personally be very interested in what you come up with. so, I believe, will many people here on #perl6.
13:17 cyocum hehe...well, now is the time to write apps for p6 and I had a diceparser/roller lying around so I thought it would be easy enough
13:17 moritz_ aye, we are always eager to hear about working Perl 6 code ;-)
13:17 cyocum hehe
13:19 masak cyocum: here's some code to illustrate what I just said about rule:
13:19 masak rakudo: rule foobar { foo bar }; rule foobang { foo \! }; for "foobar", "foo bar", "foo!", "foo !" Z &foobar xx 2, &foobang xx 2 -> $s, &r { say ?($s ~~ &r) }
13:19 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«0␤1␤1␤1␤»
13:19 masak in short, whitespace is optional when possible, and required when necessary.
13:19 cyocum *nods*
13:19 cyocum *copies code for further study*
13:22 moritz_ wow, 459 tickets in the perl6 RT queue
13:23 masak sorry. :/
13:23 moritz_ masak: not all your fault ;-)
13:24 masak no, and I'm thankful for that.
13:24 masak people: submit bugs, so it won't all be my fault! :P
13:24 cyocum masak: lol...well, I did try to help :P
13:25 masak cyocum: don't know if you noticed, but you helped drag up a bug. so, thanks for that.
13:25 cyocum masak: np
13:26 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = 1..10; say @a.split(2).perl
13:26 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«["1 ", " 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10"]␤»
13:27 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = 1..10; say @a.split(2).perl; say @a.perl
13:27 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«["1 ", " 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10"]␤[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]␤»
13:27 missingthepoint night all :)
13:27 moritz_ now I understand why there's a patch to "fix splice" in the queue
13:29 moritz_ and we have don't run any splice tests.
13:37 KyleHa If I confirm that the patch fixes the splice tests, should I apply it?
13:37 moritz_ I'm already on it
13:37 payload rakudo: my @evens = ($_ * 2 unless $_ % 2 for 0..100); say @evens
13:38 p6eval rakudo 5667dc:  ( no output )
13:38 payload :(
13:40 cyocum rakudo: my @evens = (grep {$_ % 2} for 1..100); say @evens;
13:40 p6eval rakudo 5667dc:  ( no output )
13:40 masak p6eval seems to be having a bad hair day.
13:40 cyocum and I seem to have a bad code day :P
13:40 moritz_ it fixes the tests, but not bug I found
13:41 KyleHa rakudo: my @e = grep { $_ % 2 } 1 .. 100; say @e;
13:41 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "1 .. 100; "␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3366)␤»
13:41 moritz_ comma after }
13:41 moritz_ perl5ism--
13:42 cyocum rakudo: my @e = grep { $_ % 2 }, 1..100; say @e;
13:42 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«1357911131517192123252729313​33537394143454749515355575961636567​69717375777981838587899193959799␤»
13:42 moritz_ rakudo: my @e = grep { $_ !% 2 }, 1..100; say @e;
13:42 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "!% 2 }, 1."␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3366)␤»
13:42 moritz_ !% seems to be NYI
13:42 cyocum what does !% do?
13:43 moritz_ negated divisibilty test
13:43 cyocum ok..that's what I thought
13:44 KyleHa But % isn't just a divisibility test.  Is there also !/ and !+, etc?
13:44 moritz_ no
13:45 M_o_C KyleHa: You sure? Maybe they replaced modulo % with an infix mod?
13:46 jferrero joined #perl6
13:47 KyleHa rakudo: say 17 % 5;
13:47 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«2␤»
13:47 M_o_C ok...
13:50 moritz_ or formulated better, !% *is* the divisbility test, not the negated test
13:50 moritz_ % in boolean context is the negated test
13:52 masak KyleHa: % differs from + and / in that it's often used in a boolean context. therefore, it has been made 'iffy' as a special case. see line 3645 of STD.pm for the special case.
13:52 cyocum I think I found another bug...maybe
13:53 masak :)
13:53 cyocum my @e = grep { $_ % 2 }, 1..100; say @e.join(',');
13:53 cyocum rakudo: my @e = grep { $_ % 2 }, 1..100; say @e.join(',');
13:53 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23,2​5,27,29,31,33,35,37,39,41,43,45,47,49,5​1,53,55,57,59,61,63,65,67,69,71,73,75,7​7,79,81,83,85,87,89,91,93,95,97,99␤»
13:53 cyocum ok..maybe not but I tried this on my command line
13:53 masak looks good to me.
13:53 masak cyocum: then you probably ran into problems due to ','
13:53 cyocum ./perl6 -e 'my @e = grep { $_ % 2 }, 1..100; say @e.join(',');' and it didn't work
13:53 cyocum yeah
13:54 masak you can't both have ',' and surround the program with '...'
13:54 masak common pitfall, but certainly not Rakudo's fault. :)
13:54 cyocum ok
13:54 masak that can happen with perl5 too.
13:54 cyocum I have another grammar question as well
13:54 masak shoot.
13:55 * moritz_ drops dead
13:55 cyocum ok..I have a regex "rule" that has two subrules like so: regex modifier { <plusminus> <digit>+ }
13:55 cyocum it seems that I cannot get the '+' or '-' seperately from the <digit>+
13:55 masak moritz_: you're way too sensitive! no-one did any actual shooting! :)
13:55 cyocum it seems to be all or nothing
13:55 cyocum lol
13:56 masak cyocum: note that you are using 'regex'.
13:56 cyocum true I tired token and rule
13:56 cyocum *tried
13:56 masak cyocum: now, which of 'regex', 'token', 'rule' has the whitespace behaviour we talked about?
13:56 cyocum rule
13:56 masak correct.
13:57 masak let's both try to write a grammar that makes it work with 'rule'.
13:57 cyocum ok
13:59 masak rakudo: grammar G { regex TOP { ^ <modifier> $ }; rule modifier { <plusminus> <digit>+ }; token plusminus { \+ | \- } }; say ?(G.parse("+42")); say ?(G.parse("+ 42"))
13:59 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«1␤1␤»
13:59 masak there you go.
14:00 cyocum ok...the only things different than mine is the ^ and $ and the \+ \-
14:00 masak the ^ and $ are not strictly necessary, but perhaps just good style.
14:00 cyocum *nods*
14:01 masak I used \+ and \- instead of '+' and '-' to avoid the apostrophe problem on the command line.
14:01 masak (I usually test things on the command line before submitting them to perl6eval)
14:02 cyocum ok..but how do you access the <plusminus> seperately from the <digit>+?  If I do "say $match<modifier><plusminus>" I just get the wholematch
14:02 cyocum *whole match
14:03 masak rakudo: grammar G { regex TOP { ^ <modifier> $ }; rule modifier { <plusminus> <digit>+ }; token plusminus { \+ | \- } }; G.parse("+42") or die; say ~$<modifier><plusminus>
14:03 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«+␤»
14:04 cyocum huh
14:04 masak worksforme.
14:04 cyocum this is what it looks like now: http://gist.github.com/164758
14:06 masak cyocum: ok, now you've discovered a bug. :)
14:06 cyocum LOL
14:06 cyocum \o/
14:06 masak don't know it it's a new one, but it's definitely a bug.
14:06 masak investigating...
14:13 masak here's a boiled-down version:
14:13 masak rakudo: grammar G { regex TOP { ^ <foo>? $ }; rule foo { <bar> <digit>+ }; regex bar { \+ | \- } }; G.parse("+2"); say $<foo><bar>; say $/.perl; say $<foo><bar>
14:13 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«+2␤Match.new(␤ # WARNING: this is not working perl code␤ # and for debugging purposes only␤ ast  => "+2",␤ Str => "+2",␤ from => 0,␤ to   => 2,␤ named => {␤  'foo' => [␤    Match.new(␤      ast  => "+2",␤      Str => "+2",␤      from => 0,␤      to   => 2,␤      named => {␤
14:13 p6eval ..   '…
14:13 masak aww, it doesn't show the error at the end.
14:13 masak rakudo: grammar G { regex TOP { ^ <foo>? $ }; rule foo { <bar> <digit>+ }; regex bar { \+ | \- } }; G.parse("+2"); say $<foo><bar>; $/.perl; say $<foo><bar>
14:14 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«+2␤Method 'postcircumfix:{ }' not found for invocant of class 'List'␤»
14:14 masak ergo, .perl is intrusive in some way.
14:14 cyocum huh
14:14 cyocum interesting
14:14 masak cyocum: ah!
14:15 masak rakudo: grammar G { regex TOP { ^ <foo>? $ }; rule foo { <bar> <digit>+ }; regex bar { \+ | \- } }; G.parse("+2"); say $<foo>[0]<bar>; $/.perl; say $<foo>[0]<bar>
14:15 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«+␤+␤»
14:15 masak cyocum: that's what you should do in your program as well.
14:15 cyocum right
14:15 masak because of the '?'.
14:15 cyocum yes...I see that now
14:15 masak I'm not so sure this is a bug anymore.
14:15 cyocum probably not
14:16 masak it's more like the usual foreign-objects-from-PGE problem.
14:16 marshyon left #perl6
14:17 cyocum ok..thanks for the help!
14:17 * masak bows
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14:20 PhatEddy Array autovivification looks much stronger than before and I am hoping to resolve RT #62948 after adding some tests from it.
14:21 PhatEddy Anyone interested in looking at the three proposed tests?  Or at least basic versions of them?
14:21 KyleHa Sure!
14:21 mikehh rakudo (5c4b1b8) builds on parrot r40463 make test/make spectest (up to 27922) PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64
14:21 masak mikehh++
14:21 PhatEddy rakudo: my @a; @a[1] = "b"; my $x = + @a.grep({ $_ eq "b"}); say $x
14:21 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤1␤»
14:22 PhatEddy rakudo: my @a; @a[1] = "b"; my @b = ("c", @a); say "@b"
14:22 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«@b␤»
14:22 PhatEddy rakudo: my @a; @a[1] = "b"; my @b = ("c", @a); say @b
14:22 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«cUse of uninitialized value␤b␤»
14:23 PhatEddy I think now the two (the first and last) would be enough ...
14:24 KyleHa I think I should look at the ticket.  8-)
14:24 PhatEddy ok - hanging about ...
14:26 hal9001 joined #perl6
14:26 KyleHa The patch actually includes tests.
14:29 KyleHa That makes me wonder why it hasn't been applied...
14:30 KyleHa PhatEddy: Your tests show that the problem is gone, but they're not written as tests the way the rest of the test suite is.
14:31 PhatEddy KyleHa - how about the tests in the patch - are they better ?
14:31 pmichaud good morning #perl6
14:32 PhatEddy I  realize the examples I just gave to 'rakudo:' are not ok for test suite ...
14:32 masak morn', pm.
14:32 KyleHa Yes, the tests in the patch look OK.
14:34 PhatEddy btw the last test in the patch (invliving min) may not quite work because of RT #61836 and I wouldn't plan to add that one (at least for array_extending)
14:35 jan_ joined #perl6
14:36 PhatEddy rakudo:: my @a; @a[2] = 'b'; my $m = @a.min();
14:36 PhatEddy rakudo: my @a; @a[2] = 'b'; my $m = @a.min();
14:36 p6eval rakudo 5667dc: OUTPUT«Multiple Dispatch: No suitable candidate found for 'cmp', with signature 'PP->I'␤in sub Any::_block648 (src/gen_setting.pm:208)␤called from method Any::min (src/gen_setting.pm:217)␤called from Main (/tmp/aggFEFxfCi:2)␤»
14:37 KyleHa You could add it and fudge it.
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14:41 PhatEddy There are already tests for 61836 in S03-operators/misc.t but if you still want it I would add it ...
14:50 masak is there any way I can combine qx with variable interpolation in Rakudo?
14:51 Psyche^ joined #perl6
14:52 * masak finds qqx
14:52 masak never mind. :)
14:55 Front_slash joined #perl6
14:58 PhatEddy left #perl6
14:59 masak does .=subst return an rvalue? that is, can I chain them?
15:13 pmichaud .=subst _should_ return the object that was modified
15:14 masak hm, given and .=subst interact badly. :/
15:14 masak rakudo: my $s = 'the lazy dog jumped over the foxy star'; given $s { .=subst(/(<[aeiou]>)/, {uc $0}, :g) }; say $s
15:14 p6eval rakudo 5c4b1b: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤th lzy
15:14 p6eval ..dg jm…
15:14 pmichaud there seems to be something wrong with $/ in given
15:14 masak ah, so that's a known one. I suspected that.
15:14 __ash__ joined #perl6
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15:27 moritz_ hm. Rakudo does not seem "lite" or "light" to me
15:27 masak agreed.
15:28 pmichaud Relative to "Perl 6" it is.  :-)
15:28 moritz_ still it's a term that will lead to disappointment
15:28 pmichaud The disappointment is likely to exist no matter what we do.
15:28 moritz_ unless somebody makes it *very* fast until April
15:29 moritz_ but we can influence the kind of disappointment people will experience ;-)
15:29 pmichaud I'm not sure that we can do or say anything that makes it absolutely clear to everyone that the April release isn't Perl 6.0.0 -- some people are going to be disappointed.
15:30 sbp just call it Perl 6 2.0 Beta
15:30 sbp then people will understand
15:30 moritz_ not.
15:30 moritz_ 2.0 sounds very mature
15:30 pmichaud yes, we can influence the disappointement people experience -- in some ways "Rakudo light" conveys "not completely there".
15:30 pmichaud or even "not all there, but still useful"
15:30 moritz_ anyway, it's a term I could live with
15:30 sbp how about Microperl?
15:31 moritz_ rakudo is more than micro ;-)
15:31 pmichaud unfortunately "Rakudo light" also sounds like a weak beer, so ...
15:31 moritz_ it's just not "macro" yet ;-)
15:31 sbp 6.0% alcohol by volume?
15:31 sbp doesn't sound weak to me
15:31 moritz_ so something inbetween - "Rakudo meso"
15:31 * moritz_ chuckles
15:32 sbp Queen Perl Approximately
15:32 masak to me, 'Rakudo Light/Lite' sounds liek one of those dreadful low-fat products that play on people's misconseptions about food.
15:32 moritz_ anyway, it'll be better discuss this when we know what the product looks like
15:32 Su-Shee I think one can convey the message of rakudo's level of perl 6 support best with real-world usable code examples featuring what rakudo has to offer.
15:32 sbp I think it's an awesome idea, anyway
15:32 sbp it got a lot of publicity. I heard about it elsewhere before in here!
15:33 Su-Shee optimally within typical usage scenarios like "here, this is for admis, here this for web developers, here this for computer linguists, here something for security people.."
15:33 cosimo rakudo genesis
15:34 sbp I suspect the people who will be disappointed are those who are more likely not to have looked too closely at it anyway. the people who won't feel disappointed are those more likely to be actually using it, perhaps?
15:34 cosimo i like it :)
15:34 pmichaud My wife liked "Rakudo Genesis" also
15:34 Su-Shee which I btw find very difficult to think about wihout ending up in coding xx basic modules.
15:34 masak cosimo: me too. :) maybe for the next phase or so.
15:34 sbp hmm. could name all the releases after books of the Bible
15:34 Su-Shee I like rakudo star because I can pun with rakudo starlet. ;)
15:35 pmichaud "Rakudo Star" does have a nice set of puns and interpretations that can go with it
15:35 pmichaud and that's -Ofun
15:36 pmichaud (books of the bible)  I'm not sure I'd want to promote "Rakudo Exodus"
15:36 pmichaud "Rakudo Psalms" would be interesting, though :-)
15:36 sbp Rakudo Habakkuk might be a mouthful too
15:37 sbp Rakudo Lamentations may be too depressing
15:37 Su-Shee sbp: but pretty funny :)
15:37 KyleHa How 'bout "Rakudo Release"
15:37 sbp KyleHa: too sexual
15:37 moritz_ let's just make a Genesis.pm perl mongers group, and have it support Rakudo in some way ;-)
15:37 KyleHa Perl 6 is a sexy language.
15:38 sbp good slogan though
15:38 sbp "Let it all out: with Rakudo Release."
15:38 Su-Shee sounds like Rakudo Relaxed Release. ;)
15:38 sbp "it" ostensibly referring to one's programmatical creativity
15:38 * moritz_ condemns everybody who argues about the name to write a Perl 6 patch today
15:39 Su-Shee *hihi*
15:39 moritz_ does !op has the same precedence as op itself?
15:39 * masak thinks so
15:39 sbp I would do if I wouldn't be likely to make the software worse... :-)
15:39 masak sbp: writing a patch by itself cannot harm the software.
15:40 moritz_ sbp: that's why look at patches before we appy them. So that's not a valid excuse
15:40 sbp hmm, this is a good point
15:40 sbp got suggestions for something easy to do?
15:40 sbp I'm about to go offline too, so make it offline haxable
15:40 moritz_ sbp: git is very good for that ;-)
15:41 sbp yeah, I mean, don't suggest anything that needs me to wade through gobs of manuals
15:42 KyleHa Gobs of manuals work well offline also.
15:42 sbp as long as I can get 'em now, sure
15:42 sbp so, any suggestions?
15:43 KyleHa Pick a failing test and make it pass.
15:43 sbp I tried to fix the pi() thing
15:43 sbp but just got very confused
15:44 masak rakudo: for 1,2,3,4,5 -> $a, $? { say $a }
15:44 masak std: for 1,2,3,4,5 -> $a, $? { say $a }
15:44 p6eval rakudo 5c4b1b: OUTPUT«Invalid twigil used in signature parameter. at line 2, near " { say $a "␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:1248)␤»
15:44 p6eval std 27922: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 41m␤»
15:44 * masak submits rakudobug
15:45 masak rakudo: sub foo($a, $?) { say $a }; foo("OH HAI")
15:45 masak std: sub foo($a, $?) { say $a }; foo("OH HAI")
15:45 p6eval rakudo 5c4b1b: OUTPUT«Invalid twigil used in signature parameter. at line 2, near ") { say $a"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:1248)␤»
15:45 p6eval std 27922: OUTPUT«ok 00:04 39m␤»
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16:09 mberends joined #perl6
16:10 mberends ahoy, Destroyer
16:10 phenny mberends: 10:03Z <masak> tell mberends in src/setting/Temporal.pm, line 123-124, $jd and $.time.second have the same multiplicative factor, despite being of different units. this puzzles/concerns me -- what am I missing?
16:10 phenny mberends: 12:23Z <masak> tell mberends non-destructive beauty patch to Temporal.pm: http://gist.github.com/164752 -- I'd apply it myself, but suddenly felt a review wouldn't hurt.
16:10 masak mberends: oh hai. left some messages for you. :)
16:10 mberends masak: you're missing valid code from me ;)
16:11 mberends all epoch values should be seconds, including fractional part, and .epoch returns days :/
16:11 masak that explanation just made me more confused. :/
16:12 masak couldn't you just fix it and say "it should be like this"? :P
16:12 moritz_ "it's wrong" is the version, no?
16:12 mberends like moritz_ said
16:13 mberends I'll fix it during commute this evening :)
16:13 masak thank you.
16:14 masak I'll add, in the atmosphere of general grumpiness, that I don't like the fact that S32-Temporal contains a lot of implementation code.
16:14 masak there should be better ways of specifying it that don't tie implementations down to particular lines of code.
16:15 mberends *nod
16:15 masak if I find the tuits, I might beat S32-Temporal into the shape I'd prefer.
16:15 masak also, did p6l ever discuss a Temporal::Interval?
16:15 pmichaud masak++ wields his +4 Sledgehammer of Software Reshaping again...
16:16 mberends of course that would be very nice. and Interval would be a cool addition
16:16 moritz_ ENOTENOUGHBIKESHEDDING?
16:16 masak I agree that we all agree too much.
16:16 moritz_ can't argue about that ;)
16:17 pugs_svn r27923 | kyle++ | [t/spec] apply patch from (Ronald Schmidt)++ for RT #62948
16:17 masak with Interval in the mix, one could define C<Time - Time>, C<Time + Interval> and C<Time - Interval>.
16:18 mberends could that do multi dispatch on just the return type, eg seconds, days, ...
16:18 __ash__ is there a specific syntax for calling a role's method indirectly? i know with a class there is a whole bunch of ways of doing it (in S12-methods/indirect.t) and those seem fine, but they don't work with a role
16:19 moritz_ __ash__: after composition, a method from a role and from a class should be indistinguishable
16:19 moritz_ rakudo: role B { method foo { say "YaY" } }; class A does B { }; A.new."foo"
16:20 p6eval rakudo 5c4b1b:  ( no output )
16:20 moritz_ it works locally here
16:20 moritz_ I wonder what's wrong with p6eval
16:21 masak mberends: not sure I understood that.
16:21 masak mberends: ok, so what about the patch? :)
16:21 __ash__ mortiz_: but if you say override a method from the role you loose the ability to call it (see http://gist.github.com/164492 ), thats the reason i want to call it explicitly, it works with classes but not with roles
16:22 moritz_ __ash__: uhm, Logger2::log self, $msg; is a sub call, not a method call
16:22 __ash__ lines 20-23 of that gist were the only way I could come up with calling a roles method explicitly
16:22 moritz_ rakudo: role B { method foo { say "YaY" } }; class A does B { method foo { say "Oh NOEZ" } }; A.new.B::foo()
16:22 p6eval rakudo 5c4b1b: OUTPUT«Method 'B::foo' not found for invocant of class 'A'␤»
16:23 __ash__ mortiz_: in the spec your suppose to do (within  a method) self.RoleName::methodname but its not working in rakudo, according the test spec, thats why i was kinda looking for a work around for now
16:24 mberends masak: gist lines 20-23 looks as if you're only adding a few spaces
16:24 moritz_ rakudo: role B { method foo { say "YaY" } }; class A does B { method foo { say "Oh NOEZ" } }; say A.WALK(:name<foo>).join(', ')
16:24 p6eval rakudo 5c4b1b: OUTPUT«foo␤»
16:24 moritz_ __ash__: s/mortiz/moritz/ ;-)
16:25 masak mberends: yes, it's not an important change. I just made the <=> operators line up.
16:25 masak same with 32-33.
16:25 moritz_ __ash__: maybe there's some way to do it with WALK - I'm not sure though
16:26 __ash__ moritz_: one work around I did before was call .^methods then look for the one I wanted in the list
16:26 mberends masak: gist line 43 adds the seconds-within-day to the day, I don't remember the spec for that but the code makes sense (is there a fractional second part included?)
16:27 __ash__ maybe i'll wait for someone to implement self.Role::meth :P
16:27 moritz_ __ash__: or do it yourself ;-)
16:27 moritz_ impatience++
16:28 masak mberends: let me try and see if I understood you by repeating back what you just said.
16:28 __ash__ moritz_: lol, well considering i started playing with parrot like a week ago, sure thing, but i probably won't see anything productive for like a month while i figure some of this stuff out
16:28 mberends nononono
16:28 moritz_ __ash__: having a concrete goal in mind often helps, IMHO
16:28 masak mberends: the .epoch method on Temporal::Time should return an integral number in the unit of days.
16:29 mberends nono
16:29 masak :)
16:29 KyleHa I seem to have b0rked my 'git-svn' working directory.
16:29 moritz_ KyleHa: git checkout .; git reset --hard HEAD # gets rid of all local changes
16:29 masak mberends: it was so much easier to talk to you face-to-face. :P
16:29 moritz_ warning: possiblity of data loss :)
16:29 mberends .epoch should return in the unit of seconds
16:30 masak ok. good.
16:30 masak I'll continue:
16:30 masak $jd is in the unit of days.
16:30 __ash__ moritz_: is there a way for a method to say what its bound too?
16:31 __ash__ if anything
16:31 masak therefore, there is a conversion factor between $jd and what .epoch should return, of 86400.
16:31 mberends therefore it also needs ($jd -2440588) * 24 * 3600, and then your patch
16:31 moritz_ __ash__: not sure... maybe you can get the invocant type by introspecting the signature
16:31 masak mberends: I can apply both, right away.
16:31 mberends yesyes
16:32 masak so multiply by 24*60*60, and then subtract the magical number, yes?
16:32 mberends ok
16:32 __ash__ rakudo: class A { method foo { ... }}; say &A::foo.signature;
16:32 mberends no
16:32 p6eval rakudo 5c4b1b: OUTPUT«Signature()<0xb66bc0d8>␤»
16:32 masak no?
16:32 mberends masak: parens first
16:32 masak mberends: ($jd - 2440588) * 24 * 60 * 60
16:33 mberends ok
16:33 * masak patches
16:33 mberends what does that say about the spectests? :P
16:36 beggars joined #perl6
16:36 masak same as always, I'd guess: that despite fantastic efforts from many people, we have too few of them.
16:37 mberends 100%
16:37 moritz_ and in this case we had only tests from the implementor
16:37 moritz_ which is better than no tests, but still suboptimal
16:37 mberends that's always a bad idea
16:38 masak "the implementation conforms to my biased view of it" :)
16:38 mberends :)
16:38 mberends so, I can write some more tests then?
16:39 dalek rakudo: 212b145 | masak++ | src/setting/Temporal.pm:
16:39 dalek rakudo: [Temporal.pm] fixed formula in epoch
16:39 dalek rakudo: Also, made a few whitespace changes (to align operators, mostly), and
16:39 dalek rakudo: changed the names of a few local variables to make parameter passing
16:39 dalek rakudo: prettier.
16:39 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2​12b145577735b133a43b34fff706faa27435c5b
16:39 __ash__ moritz_: maybe an easier place for me to start is adding 'is Class;' to the inside of a class definition... I noticed that doesn't work, 'does Role;' works however maybe that will help me understand how parrot's working better
16:39 moritz_ sadly sometimes I don't understand the specs until somebody implements them
16:39 masak mberends: you have my official permission.
16:40 moritz_ dalek: welcome back
16:40 mberends keep the supply of forgiveness handy ;)
16:40 pugs_svn r27924 | moritz++ | [t/spec] unfuduge infix:<!%> tests for rakudo
16:40 pugs_svn r27925 | moritz++ | [t/spec] tests for RT #67976
16:40 xomas_ joined #perl6
16:43 KyleHa moritz++ # sharing the git-fu
16:44 masak rakudo: ((Temporal::DateTime.new(date => Temporal::Date.new(:year(2010), :month(4)), time => Temporal::Time.new()).epoch - Time.gmtime.epoch) / 86400).ceiling.fmt("%d days left until April!").say
16:44 p6eval rakudo 5c4b1b: OUTPUT«0 days left until April!␤»
16:44 masak ok, my patch hasn't gone in yet.
16:44 masak it's really 235 days.
16:44 dalek rakudo: 5517d80 | moritz++ | src/ (2 files):
16:44 dalek rakudo: implement infix:<!%>
16:44 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5​517d80af7f4b5eabae9cbcd90615f68cd2da09e
16:44 dalek rakudo: 75d2b7d | moritz++ | src/setting/Any-list.pm:
16:44 dalek rakudo: simplify List.kv
16:44 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7​5d2b7d2d6e4208bd652d047c23ff826e8bc51b4
16:44 dalek rakudo: 7d06fad | dakkar++ | src/ (2 files):
16:44 dalek rakudo: moved kv to setting
16:44 dalek rakudo: Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz <moritz@faui2k3.org>
16:45 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7​d06fad1bb6ed24f3f6cb4ed459daacddd6cfb61
16:45 pmichaud moritz++  # applying dakkar++'s patches
16:49 pmurias_ joined #perl6
16:50 pmurias_ how large is the git-svn clone of the entrie pugs history?
16:50 moritz_ for just the 't/' sub dir the corresponding .git dir is 15M
16:51 moritz_ never tried the whole thing
16:51 moritz_ maybe KyleHa++ can share his, he has a clone, I just don't know if it contains the full history
16:52 KyleHa Mine's 203M.
16:52 moritz_ KyleHa: could you delte the *.rakudo files, tar it and upload it somewhere?
16:53 moritz_ *delete*
16:54 KyleHa Okeydoke.
16:54 moritz_ (the problem with git-push'ing is that it doesn't preserve the svn meta data, thus making it harder to svn-dcommit)
16:55 KyleHa I don't know how git-svn does authentication.  If someone does a dcommit from this, I wonder if it would commit as me.
16:55 moritz_ KyleHa: the crecendials should be stored in .subversion/auth, not in the .git/*
16:56 KyleHa Oh good.
16:58 KyleHa Hmm.  Where can I drop 91M?
16:59 pmurias_ moritz_: so what is the prefered way of getting the pugs repo into git-svn?
16:59 moritz_ do you have an account on feather?
17:00 pmurias_ yes
17:00 moritz_ pmurias_: obtaining a copy from KyleHa++ ;-)
17:00 moritz_ that question was meant for KyleHa ;)
17:00 KyleHa Here ya go:  http://71.194.15.106/pugs.tar.bz2
17:00 * moritz_ downloads
17:01 masak seems at one time we had a Temporal::Duration, but it was removed on Feb 19 by autarch.
17:02 pmichaud I haven't had this much fun writing blog posts and articles in years.  :-)
17:02 masak pmichaud++
17:03 moritz_ and I had much fun reading them
17:03 moritz_ KyleHa: is that your home computer? if yes I wish I had as much upstream bandwidth as you have ;-)
17:03 KyleHa Yes, it's my home computer.
17:03 moritz_ wow
17:04 pmichaud latest muse:  http://use.perl.org/comments​.pl?sid=43556&amp;cid=69932
17:04 pmichaud (and I'm generally rejecting "Rakudo Light" for now, fwiw)
17:05 KyleHa I'm too lazy to figure out how to get it up on the corp computers with a real connection.
17:05 moritz_ I'm putting a copy up on feather now
17:06 KyleHa I've seen that name floating around.  What is feather?
17:06 pmichaud KyleHa: feather.perl6.nl is a server for general Perl 6 development
17:06 pmurias_ run by Juerd++
17:07 pmurias_ with accounts avalible for all interested in perl 6 development
17:07 KyleHa What do folks do with it (more specifically than "general Perl 6 development")?
17:07 pmichaud KyleHa: it hosts the pugs subversion repository, and perl6-projects.org
17:07 moritz_ KyleHa: perl6-projects.org and pugscode.org are hosted on it...
17:07 pmichaud many of us use it as our permanent irc presence
17:08 moritz_ also the bot 'dalek' runs on it, people have there screen+irssi sessions running on it
17:08 KyleHa That explains it; thanks all.  8-)
17:09 cognominal thx, pmichaud, for the <! before ...> answer
17:09 pmichaud cognominal: you're welcome.
17:10 masak food &
17:12 pugs_svn r27926 | azawawi++ | [spec_highlight] Copy resources as needed
17:13 Khisanth joined #perl6
17:14 __ash__ moritz_: if i make any progress on explicitly calling a function like self.Class.method is anyone else working on that right now?
17:15 moritz_ __ash__: no idea
17:15 pugs_svn r27927 | azawawi++ | [perl6] preparing to move std highlighter stuff into a sub directory
17:15 __ash__ eh, well if i get anything useful out of it i'll let you know, anyway, i gotta run, cya
17:16 moritz_ ciao
17:18 pugs_svn r27928 | azawawi++ | [std_hilite] moved all STD highlighter stuff under src/perl6/std_hilite
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17:22 pugs_svn r27929 | azawawi++ | [std_hilite] fixed relative path after move
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17:28 pmurias_ Whiteknight: what was the problem with using boehm with parrot?
17:29 Su-Shee_ joined #perl6
17:37 pugs_svn r27930 | azawawi++ | [std_hilite] made it work
17:38 moritz_ the git-svn copy of pugs can now be found at http://pugscode.org/files/pugs.tar.bz2
17:38 pugs_svn r27931 | azawawi++ | [std_hilite] ignore temporary stuff
17:41 pmurias_ moritz_: wouldn't it be smaller if it only contained to .git?
17:43 moritz_ pmurias_: it would
17:45 Whiteknight pmurias_: no particular problem that I was aware of. Some issues needed to be resolved involving PMC destructors and ensuring that they are called correctly
17:45 Whiteknight but not insurmountable
17:47 pmurias_ Whiteknight: destructors in a cycle seem problematic judging from the bohem docs
17:47 pmurias_ Whiteknight: i'm thinking of using a gc for smop and i think using a premade things would be better then writing a half-baked implementation myself
17:48 Whiteknight ok
17:48 Whiteknight I haven't had the time to really dig into Boehm yet
17:48 Whiteknight so I don't know all the details
17:48 netsquire joined #perl6
17:48 pmurias_ any alternatives you know of?
17:49 Whiteknight none that should be so transparently pluggable, no
17:49 Whiteknight I could look around for you
17:49 kane_ joined #perl6
17:49 Whiteknight anyway I have to sign off, I'll talk to you ltaer
17:49 Whiteknight later*
17:50 pugs_svn r27932 | azawawi++ | [std_hilite] fixed destination path
18:03 tann joined #perl6
18:27 colomon I just built Chicago on my 64-bit Linux machine.  t/spec/S03-operators/autoincrement-range.rakudo failed in the spec tests.  Is this expected?
18:28 colomon "Bad plan.  You planned 96 tests but ran 33."
18:30 netsquire left #perl6
18:40 moritz_ colomon: I don't think so, but I recommend updating to the latest developer version ;-)
18:46 __ash__ joined #perl6
18:48 pugs_svn r27933 | azawawi++ | [std_hilite] cleanup lex
18:56 KyleHa joined #perl6
19:00 payload joined #perl6
19:00 colomon moritz_: I already did!  Just realized I did a git clone of today's repo instead of grabbing the Chicago version.
19:01 colomon I'm off to the movies now...
19:06 arnsholt joined #perl6
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19:32 pugs_svn r27934 | azawawi++ | [std_hilite] try to make it work for now
19:34 moritz_ somebody on #perlde pointed out that there was no license information on rakudo.org
19:34 moritz_ any idea to which section I should add it?
19:41 pmichaud Documentation would be my guess for now.
19:41 pmichaud std:  :foo\ ("bar")
19:41 p6eval std 27934: OUTPUT«ok 00:04 37m␤»
19:51 moritz_ rakudo: say 'foo' ~ /<+[a..z]-[f]>+/
19:51 p6eval rakudo 5517d8: OUTPUT«foo_block51␤»
19:51 moritz_ rakudo: say 'foo' ~~ /<+[a..z]-[f]>+/
19:51 p6eval rakudo 5517d8: OUTPUT«oo␤»
19:53 iblechbot joined #perl6
19:56 moritz_ rakudo: say 'foo' ~~ /<+alpha-[f]>+/
19:56 p6eval rakudo 5517d8: OUTPUT«oo␤»
19:57 lionWrk joined #perl6
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20:34 dalek rakudo: 61f269d | pmichaud++ | docs/ROADMAP:
20:34 dalek rakudo: First ROADMAP update for Rakudo Star.
20:34 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6​1f269d93bf8f3f7c65954c9fc1c6caf15905f19
20:45 smash joined #perl6
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20:59 masak joined #perl6
20:59 masak evening, perl6ers.
20:59 moritz_ oh hai
21:00 masak rakudo: my $x = bar => [ baz => 42, sloth => 43 ]; my $y = :bar[ baz => 42, sloth => 43 ]; say .kv.perl for $x, $y
21:00 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«["bar", ["baz" => 42, "sloth" => 43]]␤["bar", "baz" => 42, "sloth" => 43]␤»
21:00 masak is this a bug? if so, is it new?
21:04 moritz_ .kv changed recently
21:04 moritz_ today, that is
21:04 masak it got ported into the setting, no?
21:04 moritz_ yes
21:05 moritz_ so it seems to pick up the one from Any-list.pm
21:05 moritz_ and not the one from Pair
21:05 masak but surely the spectests would've caught this...
21:06 moritz_ t/spec/S32-array/kv.t still passes.
21:07 masak then it has too few tests.
21:07 moritz_ rakudo: my $p = foo => 'bar'; say $p.keys
21:07 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«0␤»
21:07 masak o_O
21:07 moritz_ rakudo: my $p = foo => 'bar'; say $p.key
21:07 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«foo␤»
21:07 moritz_ uhm.
21:08 moritz_ masak: do you agree that Pair.keys should return the same as Pair.key?
21:08 masak yes, but possibly in a List.
21:08 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = bar => [ baz => 42, sloth => 43 ]; my $y = :bar[ baz => 42, sloth => 43 ]; say .kv.elems for $x, $y
21:08 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«2␤3␤»
21:09 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = bar => [ baz => 42, sloth => 43 ]; my $y = :bar[ baz => 42, sloth => 43 ]; say .perl for $x, $y
21:09 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«"bar" => ["baz" => 42, "sloth" => 43]␤"bar" => ["baz" => 42, "sloth" => 43]␤»
21:09 moritz_ so they are different under the hood, but return the same .perl output?
21:09 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = bar => [ baz => 42, sloth => 43 ]; my $y = :bar[ baz => 42, sloth => 43 ]; say $x eqv $y
21:09 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«1␤»
21:11 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = bar => [ baz => 42, sloth => 43 ]; my $y = :bar[ baz => 42, sloth => 43 ]; .WHAT.say for $x, $y
21:11 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«Pair()␤Pair()␤»
21:12 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = bar => [ baz => 42, sloth => 43 ]; my $y = :bar[ baz => 42, sloth => 43 ]; say kv($_).perl for $x, $y
21:12 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«[0, "bar" => ["baz" => 42, "sloth" => 43]]␤[0, "bar" => ["baz" => 42, "sloth" => 43]]␤»
21:12 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = bar => [ baz => 42, sloth => 43 ]; my $y = :bar[ baz => 42, sloth => 43 ]; .PARROT.say for $x, $y
21:12 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«Perl6Pair␤Perl6Pair␤»
21:13 Su-Shee left #perl6
21:22 moritz_ hm, calling @.values seemed to be not my brightest idea
21:24 masak moritz_: I'll submit the bug if you add the test. :)
21:24 moritz_ masak: ok; I've turned it into 8 tests already
21:24 masak :)
21:25 moritz_ but I try to get more of them passing before submitting them
21:25 masak hm, isn't the idea that they should fail?
21:25 moritz_ no; the idea is to fix rakudo so that they pass ;-)
21:26 moritz_ masak: have you got a bug number for me already?
21:26 masak soon.
21:26 mike joined #perl6
21:26 Guest52299 perl6: say 4;
21:26 p6eval elf 27934, pugs, rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«4␤»
21:27 moritz_ masak: somehow I suspect it's a dispatching bugs wrt colon pairs
21:27 Guest52299 perl6: say "test"
21:27 p6eval elf 27934, pugs, rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«test␤»
21:28 moritz_ rakudo: multi a(*@b) { 'slurpy' }; multi a(Pair $x) { 'Pair' }; my $x = :a; my $y = a => True; say a($x); say a($y)
21:28 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«Pair␤Pair␤»
21:28 moritz_ not that easy, it seems :/
21:30 Guest52299 perl6: my $c = { state $n; return ++$n; }; say $c(); say $c();
21:30 p6eval elf 27934: OUTPUT«Unknown rule: scope_declarator:state␤It needs to be added to ast_handlers.␤ at ./elf_h line 2850␤»
21:30 p6eval ..pugs:  ( no output )
21:30 p6eval ..rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«Can't return outside a routine␤in Main (/tmp/ZiThTezyPq:2)␤»
21:30 moritz_ Guest52299: try it without the 'return', simply ++$n;
21:31 Guest52299 thanks.
21:31 Guest52299 perl6: my $c = { state $n; ++$n; }; say $c(); say $c();
21:31 p6eval pugs, rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«1␤2␤»
21:31 p6eval ..elf 27934: OUTPUT«Unknown rule: scope_declarator:state␤It needs to be added to ast_handlers.␤ at ./elf_h line 2850␤»
21:31 Guest52299 It seems that state is yet to be implemented.
21:31 moritz_ why?
21:31 masak http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=68356
21:31 moritz_ pugs and rakudo both give the same, correct result
21:32 masak Guest52299: jnthn implemented state several months ago.
21:32 masak jnthn++, I mean. :)
21:32 Guest52299 :-)
21:32 pugs_svn r27935 | moritz++ | [t/spec] tests for .kv on Pair objects, RT #68356
21:32 moritz_ just elf is lagging behind
21:32 Guest52299 I'll install perl6 locally and stop spamming perl6: here.
21:33 moritz_ Guest52299: http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo
21:33 pugs_svn r27936 | mberends++ | add a more robust test for DateTime.epoch(), using the current date/time
21:34 mberends joined #perl6
21:36 Guest52299 Thanks, mortitz.
21:36 Guest52299 s/rt/r/
21:39 masak mberends++ # new test looks good
21:39 mberends :) thanks for showing the need :)
21:40 moritz_ masak: are you "blocking" on the .kv bug?
21:40 masak moritz_: sorta.
21:40 masak new finds: S02 still refers to C<Instant> and C<Duration>, even though the former was renamed C<DateTime> and the latter removed.
21:42 moritz_ masak: I can't find any easy solution for now. I'm thinking about reverting the kv move
21:42 moritz_ at least for now
21:42 masak moritz_: are you sure that's what caused it?
21:43 moritz_ masak: I'll try it with reversal, and if it fixes it, I'll push
21:43 masak moritz_: sounds good.
21:45 * moritz_ wants ins2 merged
21:45 * moritz_ wants it rather badly
21:45 moritz_ recompiling the setting takes too long
21:45 moritz_ when ins2 is landed, I can try to compile the .pm files separately
21:46 moritz_ so that it can be parallelized
21:47 moritz_ masak: reverting the moving doesn't change anything about those failing tests
21:48 cognominal I have posted from google group to p6l but it did not made thru the moderators : The specs both have a role Cat and a mammal Cat, My understanding is that anc class live in the same namespace so that would be a problem
21:48 masak moritz_: ok. no worries.
21:48 moritz_ masak: do you know a last "good" revision so that I might start a bisect?
21:49 masak moritz_: as far as I know, it's never been right.
21:49 masak s/it's/it might/
21:49 moritz_ masak: then it might be a bug with :foo[...] syntax
21:50 moritz_ rakudo: for :foo[3, 4].<foo> { .say }
21:50 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«Method 'postcircumfix:{ }' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6Pair'␤»
21:50 masak aye.
21:50 moritz_ rakudo: for %(:foo[3, 4]).<foo> { .say }
21:50 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«34␤»
21:50 moritz_ rakudo: for %(foo => [3, 4]).<foo> { .say }
21:50 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«34␤»
21:52 moritz_ rakudo: for :foo[3, 4].value { .say }
21:52 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«3␤4␤»
21:52 moritz_ rakudo: for (foo => [3, 4]).value { .say }
21:52 masak rakudo: my($a) = 5; say 'alive'
21:52 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«34␤»
21:52 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«alive␤»
21:52 * masak submits rakudobug
21:54 masak std: my($a) = 5; say 'alive'
21:54 p6eval std 27936: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤  Variable $a is not predeclared at /tmp/Z0pfKPhMkf line 1:␤------> [32mmy($a[33m⏏[31m) = 5; say 'alive'[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤   my used at 1 ␤ok 00:02 38m␤»
21:55 moritz_ rakudo: say :foo[3, 4].value.PARROT
21:55 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«Perl6Array␤»
21:55 moritz_ rakudo: say (foo => [3, 4]).value.PARROT
21:56 p6eval rakudo 61f269: OUTPUT«Perl6Array␤»
22:05 masak g'night, folks.
22:12 dalek rakudo: 7dd4463 | pmichaud++ | src/parser/ (2 files):
22:12 dalek rakudo: (STD tracking) <...>  and <<...>> are now circumfix: instead of quote:
22:12 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7​dd4463f4c48da9befe3d5ddc2c8e9c5e1a6ba71
22:13 pmichaud the problem with :foo[3,4] is a bug in parsing colonpairs
22:13 pmichaud I worked on it over the weekend (on the plane) but it's sufficiently tricky that I've been stuck on it most oft he day
22:14 moritz_ good to know
22:15 moritz_ pmichaud: what does 'mob' stand for? (in the PGE source code)
22:15 pmichaud "match object"
22:16 moritz_ ah, so easy... ;-)
22:16 frettled heh :)
22:17 whoisthatgoksie joined #perl6
22:17 * moritz_ just found the dbdi-dev maling list
22:17 frettled I've forgot something again: multi-line comments, what was the conclusion (if there was one) to that?
22:17 pmichaud frettled: you mean   #( ... ) ?
22:17 pmichaud frettled: or do you mean   =begin ... =end ?
22:18 frettled pmichaud: �yes�
22:18 __ash__ joined #perl6
22:18 pmichaud there was discussion in lisbon that we might get rid of the curly  brace form, though , so that #{ ...     would be a line comment
22:20 __ash__ joined #perl6
22:20 __ash__ joined #perl6
22:21 frettled pmichaud: ah, yes, on the form:   foocode bleh blurgh #{ oh, the humanity } barcode fnord?
22:24 whoisthatgoksie '   '
22:25 mberends frettled: #{ will work just like # if it is the first text on the line
22:25 frettled mberends: Aha.  I remember that we had a semi-lively discussion regarding this during the NPW Hackathon.
22:25 pmichaud Correct.
22:26 frettled But I'd completely forgotten the conclusion, if there was one.
22:26 pmichaud It continued into Lisbon :-)
22:26 frettled :)
22:26 pmichaud the conclusion at NPW was not to change anything (yet)
22:26 pmichaud at Lisbon the conclusion was "maybe change something"
22:26 frettled mm.
22:26 pmichaud we were also discussing the merits of a #=  form of comment
22:26 frettled I don't recall which POV I advocated at NPW.
22:27 frettled ISTR that it may have been something about not using a syntax that would accidentally change a uncommented piece of code block into a run-away multi-line comment.
22:28 frettled That #{ works just like # if it's the first text on the line would work nicely in that regard, although it breaks the semantics of the idea that it should close on the first }.  It's a tough one to crack.
22:28 pmichaud that's why we're thinking of disallowing  #{...} altogether
22:28 pmichaud i.e.,  #{...} would never be a comment.
22:28 frettled yep.
22:28 pmichaud well, it'd be a line comment -- it would never be an embedded comment
22:29 frettled . o O ( A loop() comment? What would that look like? )
22:35 __ash__ joined #perl6
22:36 dalek rakudo: f489207 | pmichaud++ | build/gen_whatever_pir.pl:
22:36 dalek rakudo: Add Whatever forms of some prefix operators.
22:36 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f​489207e820302a7125667c59f77805a2d957f60
22:38 nacho_ joined #perl6
22:41 moritz_ pmichaud++
22:41 moritz_ now say ~<40 5 7 10>.sort: +* works
22:41 dalek rakudo: bf5ed94 | (Martin Berends)++ | src/builtins/eval.pir:
22:41 dalek rakudo: Also pass the 'ver' pmc as a named parameter to sub 'require', for
22:41 dalek rakudo: future implementation of S11 Versioning. When this patch was applied
22:41 dalek rakudo: on Rakudo builds prior to the Lisbon Walkathon, it triggered a GC
22:41 dalek rakudo: bug during t/01-sanity/07-isa.t but it does not do that now.
22:41 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b​f5ed94e0027ab8f766899307fa4d95807da770e
22:41 dalek rakudo: e690c9f | (Martin Berends)++ | :
22:41 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:rakudo/rakudo
22:42 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e​690c9f06b4f75c1557146ea01fabc47e512df98
22:42 pmichaud Yes.  That fix has been in my local commit since Friday, but I couldn't push the lot because I was blocking on the :pair[1,2,3] stuff
22:42 pmichaud I finally cherry-picked the patches out because I don't have a quick fix for the pair stuff
22:42 payload joined #perl6
22:45 * moritz_ sent two simple patches to dbdi folks and now goes to bed
22:46 frettled pmichaud: what's :pair[1,2,3] supposed to do?
22:46 pmichaud frettled: same as  :pair([1,2,3])
22:46 pmichaud originally it was parsed using   postcircumfix:<[ ]>  though, which is what Rakudo did.  But we've since decided that it's really more like the circumfix:<[ ]> form instead
22:47 pmichaud switching Rakudo to use the circumfix:<[ ]> form involves a number of tricky little internal changes.  Also STD.pm has changed in a number of other significant ways over the past few months, so we'd need to catch up with some of those as well
22:49 frettled (ouch, I forgot that Firefox tends to go bananas when I look at the synopses)
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23:26 pugs_svn r27937 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]:  Unfudge some whatever.t tests (RT #68004)
23:28 dalek rakudo: 4786eb8 | pmichaud++ | src/ (2 files):
23:28 dalek rakudo: Move .end() from builtins (PIR) into setting (P6).
23:28 dalek rakudo: Demonstrated at YAPC::EU 2009 presentation.
23:28 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4​786eb8a48d17e670db6969f090bee0d1649bb3a
23:28 dalek rakudo: 39cc848 | pmichaud++ | :
23:28 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:rakudo/rakudo
23:28 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3​9cc848007fbec97d264f17a8e0eafd3d317bbf6
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23:53 __ash__ can you use … iinstead of ...?  (unicode version of ...)
23:53 pmichaud it's not defined that way, no.

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