Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-08-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:19 justatheory joined #perl6
00:19 KyleHa Back.
00:24 ihrd left #perl6
00:34 pmichaud oops
00:34 pmichaud I mis-judged the utc time
00:34 pmichaud I'll be back around 01:30, actually
00:34 KyleHa Oh, OK.
00:35 KyleHa Thanks for letting me know.  8-)
00:41 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
00:51 * jnthn -> sleep, night all
00:51 KyleHa G'night jnthn.
00:51 jnthn KyleHa++: Best of luck on the release!
00:52 KyleHa Thank you!
00:55 __ash__ joined #perl6
01:17 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
01:19 drbean joined #perl6
01:37 dalek rakudo: 929a700 | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | docs/announce/2009-08:
01:37 dalek rakudo: announce/2009-08: passing 82% of spectests
01:37 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/929a7005721bc8ec2dd258814641fd4609f8c38e
01:52 pmichaud 82%?  I suspect no.
01:53 KyleHa Hmmm.
01:53 pmichaud checking.
01:53 KyleHa I think you're right.  It's 82% of the ones in spectest.data
01:57 KyleHa What counts the tests for spectest-progress.csv?
01:57 pmichaud a special script I have does it.
01:57 pmichaud It's just an estimate
01:58 pmichaud I just pushed an updated commit
01:58 pmichaud do you plan to release within the next 3 hours, or after that?
01:58 KyleHa It should be all ready to go in the next three hours.
01:58 pmichaud actually I should say 3.5 hours :-)
01:58 pmichaud okay.
01:58 pmichaud We'll go with the current numbers then.
01:58 pmichaud 12369 passing, 17675 in suite == 71.5%
01:58 KyleHa I've already made the tarball and checked that it works, spectested and all.
01:59 pmichaud I'm about to push the updated announcement
01:59 KyleHa I get 69.9%
01:59 KyleHa Pretty much 70%, really.
02:00 pmichaud oh, I typoed my number earlier.
02:00 KyleHa rakudo: say 12369 / 17675 * 100;
02:00 KyleHa Oh, OK.
02:00 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«69.980198019802␤»
02:00 pmichaud I did 12639  (oops!)
02:00 pmichaud we go with 70%.
02:01 pmichaud eh, 69.9%
02:01 pmichaud I'd rather round down than up.
02:01 KyleHa So that spectest-progress.csv is updated by a cron job somewhere of yours?
02:01 pmichaud it's not a cron job -- it's not completely automated
02:01 dalek rakudo: 7685eb3 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
02:01 dalek rakudo: spectest-progress.csv update: 430 files, 12339 passing, 0 failing
02:01 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7685eb30e9341157b0b1378a99ef59d4b875fc0e
02:01 dalek rakudo: 8d8ffc7 | pmichaud++ | :
02:01 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:rakudo/rakudo
02:01 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8d8ffc71ebe9829af1eb7f97e1097815836666d5
02:01 pmichaud it's a script I run, yes.
02:01 pmichaud but sometimes "things go wrong" so it's not entirely trustable to a script
02:02 KyleHa I see.
02:02 pmichaud although it's been a while since anything has gone drastically wrong
02:02 pmichaud at any rate, I wouldn't want it automatically pushing commits
02:03 KyleHa Nah.  I'd have it commit locally and push it whenever.
02:03 pmichaud even then, I don't necessarily want to commit locally
02:04 pmichaud at any rate, it's super-simple to handle it manually right now
02:04 KyleHa Yup, looks it.
02:04 pmichaud it only takes a few minutes (except for the time needed to run the tests)
02:04 KyleHa Looks like the announce needs the PDX flavor text, then a new tarball, and it's all set.
02:04 pmichaud I also want some notes in there about handling of the perl6 executable
02:06 KyleHa The problem as I recall is...
02:06 KyleHa You can build it as usual, but you have to execute it from the directory you built it in.
02:06 KyleHa The fix is 'make install'
02:07 KyleHa After a 'make install', the installed perl6 will run from anywhere.
02:07 KyleHa Is that right?
02:14 pmichaud yes.  I'm writing the announcement text for that now.
02:14 KyleHa Oh, thank you!
02:19 molaf joined #perl6
02:23 ruoso joined #perl6
02:23 justatheory joined #perl6
02:32 pmichaud just pushed a few announcement updates -- reviews/suggestions/patches welcomed.  (I'm still adding more notes.)
02:32 KyleHa Looking.
02:37 dalek rakudo: 82ef264 | pmichaud++ | docs/announce/2009-08:
02:37 dalek rakudo: More 2009-08 announcements.
02:37 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/82ef264a1018f09391b086d3ec73fcb69d88a5c9
02:42 KyleHa Is there a guideline on the announcement text width?  I reformed a paragraph, and it's wider than the others.
02:42 dalek rakudo: 3d5359d | pmichaud++ | docs/ (2 files):
02:42 dalek rakudo: More text updates in preparation for release.
02:42 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3d5359dda772cf9db538a682942a22f3475e1b6b
02:47 KyleHa I edited the two paragraphs about installation.  I think it reads better, but you should check it for accuracy.
02:48 dalek rakudo: c88002f | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | docs/announce/2009-08:
02:48 dalek rakudo: announce text edits
02:48 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c88002f671d0a51259b867178ecd2bbc23ec4390
02:48 dalek rakudo: bffd1ca | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | :
02:48 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:rakudo/rakudo
02:48 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bffd1cae7d8fb647d5e7bb275df3c25011b4dfa5
02:49 KyleHa pmichaud:  Thanks so much for being here to help me with this.  I appreciate you making yourself available on my schedule.
02:50 pmichaud my pleasure
02:50 pmichaud actually, it's not so much that I'm adopting your schedule, as that this was the only time I'd have available to do it before the release anyway. :-)
02:51 pmichaud but yes, I'm glad to be around to assist as needed :)
02:51 KyleHa Heh.  OK, then I'm just lucky.  8-)
02:53 KyleHa At this point, I think I'm waiting for your stamp of approval on the announce text before I make the tarball and test it.
02:53 pmichaud okay.  I'm doing a README update at the moment to better explain "make install"
02:53 pmichaud (I started to put the explanation in announce, then realized it belongs in README)
02:53 KyleHa No rush.
03:03 wayland76 if I have code that says "class Foo does Str {...} ; my Array of Foo @arr = func();", and func() returns a list of Str, will it create the Foo objects from the Strs, assuming that Foo.operator<=> works?
03:04 wayland76 (ie. should it in Perl 6, even if it's NYI?)
03:04 pmichaud it will not.
03:04 KyleHa I think Foo.Str would have to work, but I'm half guessing.
03:05 pmichaud first,  "my Array of Foo @arr"  doesn't mean what you think it means :-)
03:05 pmichaud it means that each element of @arr must be an Array
03:05 pmichaud (in fact, it has to be an Array of Foo)
03:06 pmichaud so you probably meant    "my Foo @arr"   if you want @arr to be an array of Foo objects
03:06 wayland76 That's what I meant, thanks :)
03:06 pmichaud second,  "my Foo @arr" means that each element of @arr has to be an instance of Foo
03:06 pmichaud since Str is not a Foo, you'll get type check exceptions with    my Foo @arr = func();
03:07 pmichaud the "Foo"  in "my Foo @arr"  is a type constraint, not a type coercion
03:07 wayland76 Ah.  So is there some way to do a coercion?
03:08 pmichaud my guess would be     my Foo @arr = (Foo($_) for func());
03:08 wayland76 Or do I have to do my Foo @arr = map { new Foo($_) } func();
03:09 wayland76 ok
03:09 wayland76 So if we call a type name as a function, does that call "new" then?
03:09 wayland76 s/new/constructors/ ?
03:09 pmichaud no, but there's a way to define a coercion
03:10 pmichaud i.e., in class Foo you'd define how to build a Foo from a Str
03:10 wayland76 Ok, I'll look in the doco, thanks :)
03:10 pmichaud I'm not sure what that would look like.
03:17 pmichaud Running "make install" will install Rakudo into the appropriate
03:17 pmichaud locations, and those executables can be run from any directory.
03:17 pmichaud (from the announce text)
03:17 pmichaud I'm not sure that's quite specific enough.
03:18 KyleHa OK.
03:18 pmichaud fixing.
03:18 pmichaud how about...
03:18 pmichaud Running "make install" will install Rakudo and its libraries into the Parrot installation that was used to build it.  The executables can then be run from any directory.
03:18 dalek rakudo: 42d8ebd | pmichaud++ | README:
03:18 dalek rakudo: Some README refactorings.
03:18 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/42d8ebdd97490c5c95ae2dae24366235feeb80d4
03:18 dalek rakudo: 0e5e157 | pmichaud++ | :
03:18 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:rakudo/rakudo
03:18 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0e5e157921525d33e2e9c498508a66ec3ca5d959
03:19 KyleHa I'd make it one sentence.
03:19 KyleHa (more)
03:20 KyleHa Running "make install" will install Rakudo and its libraries into the Parrot installation that was used to build it, and then the executables will run from any directory.
03:20 pmichaud wfm
03:20 KyleHa Ultimately, though, I think this is turning to bikeshedding.  8-)
03:20 wayland76 pmichaud: Actually, if you don't define the conversion, it defaults to running "new"
03:20 pmichaud well, a phrase like "appropriate directories" is just asking for questions :-)
03:21 KyleHa I often overwork my sentences too.
03:21 pmichaud wayland76: that's in the spec?  wow
03:21 frew__ joined #perl6
03:22 wayland76 S13:205 or so
03:24 wayland76 Unfortunately, it call it as Dog.new($spot) instead of Dog.new(Parameter => $spot)
03:24 pmichaud that does seem to be an interesting discontinuity
03:24 dalek rakudo: fd8fc8a | pmichaud++ | docs/announce/2009-08:
03:24 dalek rakudo: More announcement bikesh^H^H^H^H^H^Hupdates.
03:24 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fd8fc8a8e4ea0db44928b0da0bbf0a9bd0adb745
03:25 wayland76 Since I'm keen to join the bikeshedding, let me point out that ^W would've been better than ^H^H^H^H^H^H    :)
03:26 pmichaud (sigh)
03:26 pmichaud git commit --amend .....
03:26 pmichaud :-)
03:28 KyleHa So there's notes about the install in the announce and the README.
03:28 pmichaud yes.
03:28 pmichaud but the announce mainly points to the README
03:28 KyleHa Yep.  Good good, I say.
03:28 pmichaud the README has notes before; I just rewrote them a bit.
03:28 pmichaud *had
03:28 wayland76 README haz cheezeburgerz? :)
03:29 KyleHa Announce has "69.98%" because nines look better than zeros.
03:30 pmichaud Because we're >this< close to 70%.  :-)
03:30 KyleHa *grin*
03:31 KyleHa OK, I'm going to make the release tarball out of this, test it, and do the trumpet work tomorrow.
03:31 pmichaud 70% is rounding up, so I didn't want that.  69.9 is honest, but makes people think "gee, they're almost at 70%".  69.98 says "okay, it really is 70%"
03:31 pmichaud 69.98 will also probably produce a few smarmy comments about how we're being overprecise or something like that, too.  :-)
03:33 pmichaud okay, assuming that we're still getting clean spectest runs, I can't think of anything else that has to be done before the release.  It's all yours, KyleHa++
03:33 pmichaud and thanks a bunch for doing this release
03:33 KyleHa Thanks again for all your yelp.
03:33 KyleHa s/yelp/help/
03:33 pmichaud glad to yelp anytime :-)
03:33 KyleHa Heh.
03:42 KyleHa Builds OK, 'make test' works.  make spectest running...
03:44 leedo joined #perl6
03:51 TimToady joined #perl6
03:58 KyleHa spectests passed.  Yay!
04:09 pugs_svn r28039 | ash++ | Removed a rakudo specific test skip in S12-class/inheritence.t
04:09 __ash__ yay, now make spectest passes 2 more tests
04:26 zloyrusskiy joined #perl6
04:38 mee joined #perl6
04:39 Zloy_Russkiy joined #perl6
04:39 PerlJam pmichaud: awake?
04:40 pmichaud awake.
04:40 pmichaud just noticing that rakudo no longer builds against Parrot trunk.
04:41 PerlJam So ... I was just looking at the release instructions ... is there any reason it's not just "make release" instead of "make release VERSION=YYYY-MM" ?
04:41 PerlJam or, rather than "instead of", how about "in addition to"
04:41 PerlJam (i.e. VERSION=... would be optional)
04:42 pmichaud if you have an easy way to make that happen, I'd be okay with a patch to do it :-)
04:42 pmichaud the main reason is that I didn't want to enforce VERSION=, and I wasn't sure how to make it optional in a makefile
04:43 KyleHa Release is done.
04:43 * pmichaud checks
04:43 KyleHa I went ahead and announced and uploaded and all anyway.  I'll be a zombie tomorrow.
04:44 KyleHa I created a use.perl.org account just for this.  8-)
04:45 pmichaud good :)
04:45 pmichaud looks awesome to me
04:45 pmichaud KyleHa++
04:46 KyleHa Thank goodness.  And thank you, pmichaud++
04:47 KyleHa G'night!
04:47 pmichaud Good night!
05:00 unitxt left #perl6
05:04 wayland76 Btw, does Rakudo * mean that we stop recommending people use github?
05:05 PerlJam wayland76: er, why?
05:05 wayland76 Just wondering :)
05:06 wayland76 Oh, and KyleHa++ even if he's left :)
05:09 lionWrk joined #perl6
05:12 pugs_svn r28040 | wayland++ | [S32/IO] and [S16] Changes include:
05:12 pugs_svn r28040 | wayland++ | * Removed spurious references to "Array of", now that pmichaud++ has explained things to
05:12 pugs_svn r28040 | wayland++ |   me
05:12 pugs_svn r28040 | wayland++ | * Added    a number of things to better cope with the Encoding
05:12 pugs_svn r28040 | wayland++ | * Other    minor cleanups
05:17 dnukem joined #perl6
05:17 justatheory joined #perl6
05:26 PerlJam pmichaud: Try this patch http://gist.github.com/170857
05:41 orafu joined #perl6
05:45 ihrd joined #perl6
05:45 wayland76 joined #perl6
05:48 tak11 joined #perl6
05:54 abra joined #perl6
05:56 solarion joined #perl6
05:59 finanalyst joined #perl6
06:02 youwin joined #perl6
06:25 moritz_ rakudo: multi a ($x, $y?) { say "a" }; multi a ($x) { say "b" }; a(3);
06:25 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Ambiguous dispatch to multi 'a'. Ambiguous candidates had signatures:␤:(Any $x, Any $y?)␤:(Any $x)␤in Main (/tmp/RtdgIucQeV:2)␤»
06:28 cognominal joined #perl6
06:28 moritz_ I CAN HAZ RELEAZ!
06:29 moritz_ KyleHa++
06:39 ihrd hi
06:39 youwin joined #perl6
06:39 ihrd I compile last Rakuso
06:40 ihrd argh, Rakudo, and find out I can run perl6 from rakudo dir only
06:40 ihrd from any other place it said
06:40 moritz_ ihrd: you have to install it
06:40 ihrd Null PMC access in isa()
06:40 ihrd current instr.: 'parrot;P6metaclass;register' pc 633 (runtime/parrot/library/P6object.pir:430)
06:40 ihrd called from Sub 'perl6;Perl6Role;onload' pc 5091 ((unknown file):-1)
06:40 ihrd called from Sub '_block138' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)
06:40 moritz_ it's known and documented (see README)
06:41 ihrd ok, thank you
06:42 moritz_ (nobody reads READMEs anyway, we should call them READMENOTORYOULLDIEAVIOLENTDEATH)
06:42 ihrd I read it carefuly first time
06:42 dalek rakudo: 48f6de1 | moritz++ | README:
06:42 dalek rakudo: remove trailing ws in README
06:42 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/48f6de1a5711827dd079f81286e485b9985567cf
06:43 ihrd but for now I just compile rakudo as usual
06:43 moritz_ yes, I understand
06:48 ihrd ok, I read it. Can we replace "You can now use 'make' to build Rakudo Perl." by "You can now use 'make' and 'make install' to build and install Rakudo Perl." instead of "You can now use 'make' to build Rakudo Perl."
06:49 moritz_ will do later on
07:03 rfordinal joined #perl6
07:07 rfordinal left #perl6
07:08 moritz_ rakudo: Perl6::Grammar.parse('1') && say $/.perl
07:08 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Method 'perl' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6;Grammar'␤»
07:08 moritz_ rakudo: Perl6::Grammar.parse('1') && say ~$/
07:08 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«1␤»
07:09 barney joined #perl6
07:12 sarthak joined #perl6
07:12 sarthak left #perl6
07:14 Chillance joined #perl6
07:32 moritz_ joined #perl6
07:32 KatrinaTheLamia joined #perl6
07:32 Patterner joined #perl6
07:32 jan__ joined #perl6
07:32 gbacon joined #perl6
07:32 eiro joined #perl6
07:50 ihrd left #perl6
07:52 dduncan joined #perl6
08:00 zloyrusskiy joined #perl6
08:01 lisppaste3 dduncan pasted "Rakudo build problem - no HLLCompiler" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/85717
08:03 dduncan any idea why this is happening or how to get Rakudo to build?
08:03 pmichaud was Parrot installed with "make install-dev" ?
08:03 * moritz_ was just about to ask that :-)
08:04 dduncan just make install, as the README says
08:04 moritz_ dduncan: the README from which century? :-)
08:04 pmichaud README says "make install-dev"
08:04 pmichaud line 64
08:05 pmichaud We should've put a check for that into Configure.pl.  Oops.
08:05 pmichaud it's on my todo list now.
08:05 pmichaud (if anyone else beats me to it, great :-)
08:09 dduncan I see it now, in Rakudo's README, in the section mentioning --parrot-config, which I did use ... but Parrot's README makes no mention of install-dev, and it should, considering people who go and install Parrot first without looking at Rakudo
08:10 dduncan I will try re-installing Parrot using make install-dev now
08:10 pmichaud that's a very valid point as well.
08:10 pmichaud Still, Rakudo's Configure.pl ought to catch this, so we should make that happen.
08:11 dduncan both are a good idea
08:11 pmichaud I'm a bit surprised that PCT/HLLCompiler.pbc isn't installed by "make install" even for Parrot, though.  Almost nothing will run (much less build) without it.
08:12 pmichaud according to Parrot's MANIFEST.generated file, it should've been installed.
08:12 dduncan now that I know install-dev exists, I can understand why that separation might be done ... perhaps analogous to Catalyst's separation into Catalyst-Runtime and Catalyst-Devel ?
08:13 pmichaud oh, wait, perhaps now.
08:13 pmichaud *not
08:13 * moritz_ will patch parrot's README
08:13 dduncan but that implies maybe pre-compiled HLL
08:13 pmichaud hmmm?
08:14 pmichaud oh, yes, it would imply pre-compiled HLL.  That's Parrot's working model of distribution.
08:14 pmichaud It expects most people to obtain precompiled components, not to build them directly.
08:14 dduncan right, well, good to design in the separation early as possible, as it is done
08:14 dduncan just a documentation omission then
08:15 moritz_ documentation enhanced in (parrot) r40670
08:15 pmichaud very interesting... "make install" doesn't install the PCT components.  That's bad.
08:16 moritz_ so even a precompiled rakudo needs install-dev?
08:17 pmichaud more to the point, parrot's "make install" should install the PCT components
08:19 pmichaud on a different topic, I have no idea what to think about http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=43556&amp;cid=70186 .  I think I'm just going to ignore it.
08:19 M_o_C joined #perl6
08:19 dduncan okay, using Parrot's "make install-dev" appears to have fixed my reported problem with Rakudo make
08:21 moritz_ pmichaud: ignoring it seems like a good option.
08:21 larsen joined #perl6
08:22 Matt-W pmichaud: It displays quite clearly that he didn't understand a word of what you were trying to say
08:22 moritz_ and it contains factual errors
08:22 moritz_ "Perl 5 was a complete rewrite of Perl 4" -- wtf? that's the first time I read that
08:23 Matt-W If it was, it was only the interpreter
08:23 Matt-W it wasn't a rewrite of the language itself
08:25 * Matt-W ponders some sort of reply... but would need to get a use.perl account first, so is suffering a lack of enthusiasm
08:26 moritz_ Matt-W: I think it's not worth replying
08:26 moritz_ it looks like a semi-informed flame bait with no intention to get any corrections, just food for flames
08:26 Matt-W I'm tempted to try
08:26 Matt-W I can always stop
08:27 Matt-W Shall think about it for a bit
08:30 pmichaud Actually, I think I have a reply.
08:30 ejs joined #perl6
08:31 broquaint joined #perl6
08:37 dduncan good night
08:37 dduncan left #perl6
08:40 DanielC joined #perl6
08:43 * Matt-W has a fairly rambling sort of reply he should probably try to conciseify
08:43 Chillance_ joined #perl6
08:43 pmichaud I just wrote mine:  http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=43556&amp;cid=70194
08:44 DanielC Hi
08:44 Matt-W good one pmichaud
08:44 DanielC Reply to what? Did someone say something stupid?
08:44 Matt-W I was going to say some things along the same lines
08:44 Matt-W along with some other stuff
08:44 Matt-W I might just say the other stuff now
08:44 pmichaud DanielC: http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=43556&amp;cid=70186
08:44 DanielC *click*
08:47 * cognominal explodes PGE :  regex { <[x10000..xEFFFF]> }
08:48 moritz_ cognominal: maybe <-[\x0..\x10000]> is less explody?
08:49 pmichaud PGE doesn't know how to do ranges in enumerated character lists short of building the entire set of characters at the moment
08:49 cognominal I just wanted to match xml tags
08:49 pmichaud so the range \x10000..\xEFFFF is a little... large
08:49 cognominal indeed
08:50 cognominal :)
08:50 * moritz_ wonders how hard it would be to use inversion lists for such ranges
08:51 pmichaud the tricky part is breaking up the character enumeration into smaller pieces
08:51 pmichaud we also have to deal with things like  \w, \s, \W, etc.
08:52 moritz_ well, I thought about doing it just for the special case of enumerated char classes
08:52 cognominal what is an inversion list?
08:52 DanielC pmichaud: That was a good response.
08:53 pmichaud DanielC: thanks.
08:53 cognominal http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-cpinv.html
08:53 pmichaud I meant \w, \s, \W in enumerated lists
08:54 pmichaud e.g.,   <-[\W]>
08:54 pmichaud or
08:54 pmichaud <-[\s 0..9]>    # exclude whitespace and digits
08:55 pmichaud or
08:55 pmichaud <-[\s a e i 0..9 o u]>  # exclude whitespace, digits, and lowercase vowels
08:56 moritz_ pmichaud: are \W etc. implemented by querying the unicode character database?
08:56 pmichaud at the moment PGE maintains a table of whitespace chars (more)
08:57 pmichaud but for \d and \w we ask Parrot, and in the case of Unicode Parrot asks ICU
08:58 pmichaud there's not a way in Parrot to say "enumerate all of the \w chars", there's just a way to say "is this character a \w".  (Yes, we could loop through all possible codepoints asking if each one is a \w...)
08:59 moritz_ would you be interested in a perl based prototype which uses inversion lists + direct questions to a different implementation?
08:59 * Matt-W cuts off his urge to ramble forever and posts a reply
08:59 moritz_ ie that would make <[$range]-\w> working by first doing an inversion list lookup, and then asking parrot if the character matches \w?
09:00 pmichaud moritz_: that sounds too special case-y to me
09:00 pmichaud it's not the case of <[$range] - \w> that is tricky on its own -- in fact, that's not even valid.
09:01 pmichaud the tricky part of enumeration lists is that we have at least three things that can appear there:  (1) individual characters, (2) ranges, and (3) certain character properties such as \w, \d, \s, etc.
09:02 moritz_ well, my idea might cover that
09:02 pmichaud so PGE needs to come up with a data structure that can represent the various combinations of these, including their negations
09:02 moritz_ inversion lists can represent (1), (2) and negations
09:03 pmichaud I think I can more efficiently represent (1) and (2) directly, without the inversion list
09:04 pmichaud I can certainly evaluate a direct representation more efficiently.
09:04 moritz_ well, you certainly have more experience in that area than I do :-)
09:04 pmichaud :-)
09:04 pmichaud thanks for the tip on inversion lists, though, I hadn't really seen that before
09:10 Chillance__ joined #perl6
09:30 meppl joined #perl6
09:33 frettled I get spectest failure on S12-attributes/class.rakudo and S14-roles/basic.rakudo, but I can't recall whether these were known or not.  I've searched RT, but haven't found matching entries.  New stuff or known?
09:37 ispy_ joined #perl6
09:51 Chillance joined #perl6
09:58 guest_007 joined #perl6
10:02 Whiteknight joined #perl6
10:08 Su-Shee joined #perl6
10:08 Su-Shee good day! :)
10:12 DanielC o/
10:14 jnthn morning
10:15 * Su-Shee started rakudo lobbying in the office today.
10:15 DanielC Su-Shee: Are you lobbying that your office start using Rakudo?
10:17 azawawi joined #perl6
10:17 azawawi std: "helllooo";
10:17 p6eval std 28040: OUTPUT«ok 00:04 37m␤»
10:17 szbalint ;)
10:18 azawawi moritz_: hi
10:18 colomon http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo needs to be modified to add the "make install" bit.
10:19 Su-Shee DanielC: yes.
10:19 DanielC Su-Shee: What do you want to use it for?
10:19 azawawi moritz_: is rakudo going to be released today?
10:20 Su-Shee DanielC: in 2010, the entire system is scheduled for "throw away, write new" ;)
10:20 DanielC oh
10:20 DanielC Su-Shee: Do you think Rakudo is ready for that?
10:20 Su-Shee DanielC: essentially, web plus dbi plus heavy web service apis plus document converting.
10:21 DanielC Does Rakudo have those things already? (e.g. dbi)
10:21 Su-Shee DanielC: we'll see. even if we exchange minor modules with rakudo, it would be a nice start. we have some perfect candiate for grammars.
10:21 Su-Shee (for example)
10:22 azawawi 2009-08-20   Rakudo #20 "PDX"                (kyle)
10:22 masak joined #perl6
10:22 masak hideloho, perl6ers.
10:22 DanielC o/
10:23 DanielC Su-Shee: I didn't think that Rakudo was ready for production use like that (heavy web service), it would be very exciting if you could make it work for that.
10:25 Su-Shee DanielC: well it's going to be a) a process and b) - we're planning for something which at least should run the next decade with perl. so, at least smaller things with rakudo doesn't seem to be impossible and then slowly migrating.
10:25 DanielC I see.
10:26 masak Su-Shee++
10:26 DanielC Su-Shee++
10:26 Su-Shee well let's see how much of a success my lobbying really will be. ;)
10:27 DanielC What other alternatives is your office considering?
10:27 Su-Shee perl 5
10:27 DanielC Hmmm...
10:27 moritz_ oh hai
10:27 Su-Shee no different language, though.
10:27 moritz_ azawawi: in case you haven't noticed, it's already released
10:28 DanielC Difficult choice. Perl 5 has better features right now, but who knows where things will be in 10 years?
10:28 moritz_ different.
10:28 Su-Shee DanielC: well my crystal ball, my female intuition and the tealeaves earlier this morning said clearly "perl 6".
10:29 DanielC :-)
10:31 azawawi moritz_: cool thanks
10:31 Su-Shee wow. some people really hate perl 6.
10:31 DanielC Su-Shee: Q: Are you located in Germany?
10:31 DanielC Su-Shee: Your website URL is in German.
10:31 Su-Shee DanielC: yes
10:32 masak wow, this furry_marmot fellow sure sounds angry.
10:32 colomon Su-Shee: Is that a reference to people at your work, or furry-marmot?
10:32 Su-Shee colomon: neither. discussion on #perl right now.
10:32 colomon Oh.
10:33 DanielC What did they say?
10:33 Su-Shee "vapor6" "silimar name"
10:33 moritz_ I updated http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo to mention 'make install'
10:33 colomon moritz_++
10:33 KatrinaTheLamia yeah, I've been reading that discussion...
10:33 DanielC moritz_++
10:33 Su-Shee moritz_: ui, there's a make install now? cool.
10:34 KatrinaTheLamia how is libSDL support in Perl6? I have a project that I want to do that won't reach maturity anytime soon... figured I'd get it started in Perl6.
10:34 moritz_ it's actually mandatory now - a non-installed rakudo will only work from the root of the build directory
10:36 moritz_ KatrinaTheLamia: I know there is some support in parrot for it, which might be usable from within rakudo
10:37 moritz_ KatrinaTheLamia: actually there's a small Perl 6 example in the parrot repository, in examples/sdl/blue_rect.pl
10:39 KatrinaTheLamia moritz_, I'll look into it. I am really new to current Perl standards--I programmed for it long ago, but left for a while. From what I've been reading on various Enlightened Perl docs and blogs, it has came a long way... I really like some of the stuff some people are doing, and I want to be a part of it... so, you'll have to excuse me if I seem silly every now and then... it is purely ignorance on the matters at hand.
10:39 moritz_ KatrinaTheLamia: note that most "modern perl" blogs talk about perl 5
10:39 moritz_ KatrinaTheLamia: both perl 5 and perl 6 has come a long way though :-)
10:40 moritz_ Su-Shee: in case you haven't see it: http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/svg-adventure.writeback - does that count as "beautiful perl"? :-)
10:41 Su-Shee moritz_: pretty perl, yes. :)
10:41 moritz_ pretty, ok :-)
10:41 KatrinaTheLamia moritz_, well, I also have a few other projects I want to get done in Perl 5... including a few video games... however the Perl 6 game, I do not envision being near complete for some time, so I figured I'd do it in Perl 5
10:41 KatrinaTheLamia Perl 6*
10:41 Su-Shee KatrinaTheLamia: well you see the different views here and in #perl over there perfectly...
10:43 DanielC I find Perl 6 as a language far more interesting than Perl 5.
10:43 DanielC It has borrowed a lot of cool things from Haskell (functional language features) as well as Ruby/Smalltalk ("everything is an object")
10:44 yath but not .inspect :(
10:44 moritz_ KatrinaTheLamia: anyway, you're welcome to join our large quest/mmorpg :-)
10:44 DanielC My favorite languages were Perl 5, Haskell and Ruby. In some ways, Perl 6 is a combination of all of the above.
10:44 Matt-W Yup
10:44 Matt-W That's how I see it
10:45 KatrinaTheLamia moritz_, nice. Thanks ^.^
10:45 jnthn yath: .inspect?
10:45 moritz_ DanielC: would you be interesting in porting a cool ruby project to perl 6?
10:45 DanielC moritz_: Is there a specific one you have in mind?
10:45 yath jnthn: in smalltalk you can do "object inspect!" and see all doc-strings, methods and attributed of the object
10:45 yath (or the class)
10:45 moritz_ DanielC: yes, a plotting/charting module that produces nice SVG... let me find the link
10:45 yath s/attributed/attributes/
10:46 KatrinaTheLamia heh, the Perl 5 game I want to do is, ironically based on a forgotten web comic known as "Kid Radd". I think having a forgotten web comic be done well and get going in what is often (incorrectly) regarded as a forgotten language would be a good satire.
10:46 yath jnthn: or, to talk smalltalk-ish: every message an object instanciated from that class would recongnize ;-)
10:46 KatrinaTheLamia I'd make sure to make fun of the people like those in #perl regularly in the Kid Radd games I want to do... though, it would be rather tongue in cheek
10:47 reqamst rakudo source looks dirty for me... :( different filetypes... i can't find myself
10:47 DanielC moritz_: I haven't touched Ruby in years (I have to work with PHP - ugh) but I'm willing to give it a shot.
10:47 Matt-W yath: Well we've got metaclass methods for finding methods and attributes and things...
10:47 yath Matt-W: yeah, but inspect was really easy
10:48 Matt-W $a.^methods isn't?
10:48 yath Matt-W: just typed foo inspect! into the REPL and got a list of everything the object knows about
10:48 yath Matt-W: well, inspect also had the doc-strings along with the method :)
10:48 reqamst i think pugs is easier to recognize, but.. is it dead currently?
10:48 moritz_ DanielC: http://scruffy.rubyforge.org/ this one
10:48 DanielC *click*
10:49 moritz_ DanielC: I'd really like to help, but I don't know ruby at all
10:49 Matt-W yath: we'll have those according to Damian's latest doc ides, but they won't all come out of one method that's all
10:50 reqamst moritz_: how could i help with this project?
10:51 moritz_ reqamst: by translating ruby to perl 6, or explaining some ruby constructs to me, setting up a repo, thinking of a good name etc.
10:51 DanielC moritz_: I'm only a Ruby beginner, but I'll give it a shot. This library looks really neat.
10:52 DanielC reqamst: Do you know Ruby?
10:52 moritz_ DanielC: I looked at it, it's about 3k lines of code including blank lines and comments
10:52 moritz_ and most classes are < 100 lines
10:52 DanielC ok
10:52 reqamst DanielC: yes, I know
10:52 DanielC Doesn't sound too bad.
10:53 DanielC reqamst: You are probably better at Ruby than I am. Do you want to try to port this library to Perl 6 with me?
10:53 masak I'm willing to help too, if someone else sets up the repo.
10:53 moritz_ setting up a repo is easy. Coming up a with good name is hard.
10:54 masak yeah... 'puffy' is not an immediately good candidate. :P
10:54 reqamst DanielC: we can try... I am discover source
10:54 KatrinaTheLamia I am not too bad with Ruby... even though I cannot stand RoR.
10:54 DanielC I'll try to think of a good name...
10:54 moritz_ once we've got a name (if only a provisional) I'll set up a repo
10:54 reqamst discovering
10:54 masak perhaps something to do with 'lickable (plots)'?
10:54 Su-Shee KatrinaTheLamia: why is that? isn't that what everybody wants today?
10:55 moritz_ plitable?
10:55 DanielC KatrinaTheLamia: You don't like RoR? Me neither. What I don't like about it is that it feels very restrictive.
10:55 moritz_ pletable?
10:55 masak moritz_: sounds like a table module.
10:55 KatrinaTheLamia Su-Shee, I tried to learn RoR, and found that the documentation on it, like most Ruby projects, is deplorable at best
10:55 DanielC RoR feels like wearing a straight jacket.
10:55 jnthn yath: While I think Perl 6 makes all that information available, I concede there isn't one nice method to get you all of it in one go.
10:55 KatrinaTheLamia you'd think with Ruby being highly associated with rdoc, the projects would be very well documented when released
10:56 DanielC It is really easy to do the very specific things that the makers intended, but really hard to do anything different and novel.
10:56 Matt-W yes that's the problem I had with it
10:56 masak 'graphsome'? :)
10:56 KatrinaTheLamia jnthn, what are some good Perl 6 resources? Maybe I should see about gathering as much as I can onto Nimh Labs.
10:56 Matt-W Catalyst seems more flexible, although at the expensive of initial complexity
10:56 DanielC I was surprised that RoR became so popular. I thought the Ruby language was supposed to be about flexibility.
10:56 moritz_ KatrinaTheLamia: we try to have links to nearly everything on http://perl6-projects.org/
10:57 KatrinaTheLamia moritz_, thankies ^.^
10:57 Su-Shee Matt-W: I'm a Mojo fan, I have to admit.
10:57 KatrinaTheLamia moritz_, next time a trout to the face and telling me /topic will do ~.^
10:57 DanielC Su-Shee: What is Mojo?
10:57 masak KatrinaTheLamia: we're not big on slapping people's faces here. :)
10:58 moritz_ KatrinaTheLamia: we try to be friendly here, but I'll remember :-)
10:58 Su-Shee DanielC: CPAN -> install Mojo and http://mojolicious.org
10:58 masak we can make exceptions :)
10:58 DanielC *click*
10:58 jnthn KatrinaTheLamia: perl6-projects is, as moritz said, a good place. For keeping up to date plus seeing lots of good blog posts, http://planetsix.perl.org/ is worth watching.
10:58 Su-Shee DanielC: very tiny-tidy sleek mvc framework
10:58 DanielC Su-Shee: Sounds good.
10:59 reqamst DanielC: source looks simple
10:59 DanielC Mojo -> bookmarked
10:59 DanielC reqamst: That's good news.
11:00 DanielC I haven't looked at the source - I'm at work right now, I should work at least a little :)
11:00 moritz_ aye, it did look simple to me when I looked at it
11:01 * moritz_ wonders if cardinal runs it
11:01 DanielC simple == good
11:02 KatrinaTheLamia thank you jnthn
11:02 masak all this _why nostalgia has made me want to check out Camping. :)
11:03 KatrinaTheLamia masak, moritz_ yeah, I mostly said that, as I realised how silly I was for not checking the topic
11:03 KatrinaTheLamia anyways, I'd love to join this MMORPG and be a well known blogger
11:03 masak KatrinaTheLamia: asking to get slapped with a trout is about the only way to get slapped with a trout around here.
11:04 masak KatrinaTheLamia: oh, you've read something. *blushes*
11:04 reqamst DanielC: and it's well documented
11:04 KatrinaTheLamia heh... though, it should be noted, when playing games, I tend to take the role of "loonie" of the four major arch types
11:04 DanielC reqamst: Yes. It looks well documented.
11:04 KatrinaTheLamia masak, well, I saw that article in my RSS reader some time ago ^.^
11:04 synth joined #perl6
11:05 masak KatrinaTheLamia: I'm no expert. what's a "loonie"?
11:05 KatrinaTheLamia masak, I'll look for the old USENET article ^.^
11:05 frettled masak: http://seiyuu.com/okamoto/gaming/realmen.htm
11:05 frettled KatrinaTheLamia: see above :)
11:06 KatrinaTheLamia oh thanks frettled ^.^
11:06 * KatrinaTheLamia clicks
11:06 KatrinaTheLamia it has been too long since I read that ^.^
11:07 masak KatrinaTheLamia: "The Loonie -- The type who will do anything for a cheap laugh, including casting a fireball at ground zero." I think you'll be a good Rakudo tester/bug submitter. :)
11:12 KatrinaTheLamia naw... I've got a _better_ project to be a tester/bug submitter... JPerl6 ~.^
11:12 * KatrinaTheLamia is shot
11:13 masak would that be Perl 6 for the JVM?
11:13 masak rakudo: /\ /
11:13 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0:  ( no output )
11:13 Matt-W that'd be cool... but hard
11:14 masak rakudo: /\ /; say "alive"
11:14 masak Matt-W: as opposed to other compiler projects around here? :P
11:14 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«alive␤»
11:19 KatrinaTheLamia I dunno, I'd mostly imagine it would largely be seen as an abomination of Perl6... though, now that I think of it, it would succeed at putting Perl6 into the enterprise world... the only issue I can foresee on my part is a large amount of lack of experience... also while I have read a few books on compiler design, my readings still have neglected the infamous Dragon Book...
11:19 KatrinaTheLamia which you know what? I have money... time to buy it ^.^
11:19 Matt-W KatrinaTheLamia: it wouldn't be an abomination. Perl 6 is supposed to be implemented in as many ways as people want!
11:19 Matt-W And having that foot into the Java world would be nice
11:19 Matt-W Someone was looking at doing it on .NET
11:20 Matt-W Which would also be cool
11:20 masak very much so.
11:21 Matt-W It's all very well having Rakudo on Parrot, but running on an existing VM as well would be a huge boost
11:21 Matt-W &
11:21 masak just to note, bleeding-edge Parrot/Rakudo produces segmentation faults and bus errors here on my box.
11:21 KatrinaTheLamia alright then... I'll look into it... however, it will likely be _really_ bad at first... as while I knew Perl5 during the Perl 5.6 and prior era... I don't really know current knowledge that well. Maybe I can use it to learn Perl6? I find implementing systems helps me best understand the very nature of how such a system works, as oppose to using it.
11:21 masak not matter what I run.
11:21 moritz_ masak: that's known, bacek will take care later today
11:22 DanielC It would be cool to have Perl running on the Davlik machine so it runs on Android.
11:22 masak moritz_: oh, good.
11:22 KatrinaTheLamia any suggestions on books to buy and places to get them? I've been neglecting getting that damn Dragon Book for far too long... is Amazon a good place to get that?
11:23 moritz_ KatrinaTheLamia: look at http://isbn.nu/ it has nice overviews of where to buy things
11:23 KatrinaTheLamia I cannot admit to being an expert in CS... but then, when I went to NAIT (the local standard on CS), I found the systems standards are exceedingly low... with me often hijacking the class from the teacher. But what I've read some _really_ nice things with this ^.^
11:23 KatrinaTheLamia moritz_, thankies ^.^
11:26 omega_ joined #perl6
11:26 masak omega_: o/
11:28 rjh joined #perl6
11:29 reqamst can you recommend me any module as an example of good perl6 practices?
11:31 masak reqamst: anything in particular? module organisation? OO? comments?
11:32 reqamst especially OO
11:32 masak reqamst: on a general level, you should check out (the Perl 6 part of) proto. it's fairly nice. http://github.com/masak/proto/
11:32 masak for OO especially, check out Druid. http://github.com/masak/druid/
11:33 masak it even uses the Listener pattern, and is heavily commented with the newest S26 commenting praxis.
11:35 * KatrinaTheLamia quietly notes both of those are masak own projects :P
11:35 ihrd joined #perl6
11:35 masak KatrinaTheLamia: I'd feel guilty about it, but try coming up with other examples of the same size -- I dare you. :)
11:36 KatrinaTheLamia masak, give me enough time to learn Perl6 better ~.^
11:36 masak KatrinaTheLamia: you know, I like your attitude. :)
11:36 jnthn Heh. masak++ probably has written some of the most extensive Perl 6 code out there so far. :-)
11:36 jnthn And in the process weeded out the most bugs. :-)
11:36 masak I know STD.pm is pretty large, and massively impressive.
11:36 * jnthn should actually try writing some Perl 6 code.
11:37 masak it requires its own compiler just to run. :)
11:37 masak Elf is also pretty large. I don't know much about its status.
11:37 masak the spectests, if one were to view them as some sort of application, constitute the largest Perl 6 application in the wild.
11:38 KatrinaTheLamia yeah... jnthn don't feel bad... I am still stuck in the tutorial mode... then it is off to do my mass genocide of Slimes in the world of Perl6 ^.^
11:38 masak and then there's all the secrent government projects running on Perl 6 next-gen codebases, but which... I'm not at liberty to talk about, unfortunately. :P
11:38 masak noo! what have the Slimes done to you? all they do is sit around!
11:39 reqamst masak: thanks
11:39 KatrinaTheLamia heh... well, I did technically case a series of paradoxes that caused Perl 6 to come into reality after mentioning to the wrong people that Eris makes extensive use of Perl 6 in her works. So it doesn't surprise me that the Illuminatus make use of Perl6... I couldn't see any other ue ^.^
11:39 jnthn masak: If you consider Rakudo's setting...
11:39 jnthn masak: That's a non-small example too.
11:39 masak jnthn: also true.
11:39 KatrinaTheLamia cause*
11:40 masak KatrinaTheLamia: also, while Druid is completely written by me, I'll note that proto is written by a mosaic of Perl 6 authors.
11:41 ihrd hi there
11:41 masak ihrd: o/
11:41 ihrd jnthn: do you saw me emails?
11:41 KatrinaTheLamia masak, I am just teasing you on that... you have every right to be proud of your code
11:42 ihrd masak: 8)
11:42 masak KatrinaTheLamia: oh, I am. just trying to be fair about the attribution.
11:42 finanalyst Matt-W: how long did it take to get an account on use-perl?
11:42 reqamst hmm... it could be difficult to recognize when I made bug, and when it's rakudo bug... especially when I am not advanced in perl6
11:42 masak reqamst: yes. that's what #perl6 is for.
11:42 reqamst :)
11:42 jnthn ihrd: Yes, I saw 'em.
11:43 masak rakudo: ?/is this a bug/; say "nope"
11:43 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤nope␤»
11:43 masak oh.
11:43 jnthn lol
11:43 masak implicit comparison with $_
11:43 * KatrinaTheLamia hands reqamst a kitten, "perl6 is dangerous to go alone, have this ^.^"
11:44 KatrinaTheLamia anyways, back to reading... so that maybe one day, I can be learned and smart ^.^
11:44 masak that reminds me, I still haven't called a project of mine "Kittens"
11:44 reqamst KatrinaTheLamia: ^^
11:46 KatrinaTheLamia masak, if you do, I would love to see it as an integral part of Perl6. Mostly just so it could be advertised via that Legend of Zelda Meme.
11:46 masak :)
11:47 ruoso joined #perl6
11:51 masak I think I know which project to name that, then. coincidentally, I had trouble naming that project, so it suits me fine.
11:54 jnthn masak: Everytime I break it though, I'd feel bad about having killed a kitten.
11:57 moritz_ so, how do we name the Perl 6 port of scruffy?
11:58 moritz_ plotty?
11:58 Su-Shee plotticilous ;)
11:58 jnthn PlotHead
11:59 Su-Shee *hihi*
11:59 DanielC But this is not a plotting library.
11:59 DanielC It is a generic SVG library, no?
11:59 DanielC Or is it really just for plotting?
11:59 moritz_ no, it's charting/plotting
11:59 DanielC ah
11:59 DanielC charty
11:59 Su-Shee pieplott
11:59 reqamst charty looks nice
12:00 moritz_ +1 for charty
12:00 * DanielC just wrote the first word that crossed his mind...
12:01 Su-Shee chartyplott
12:01 Su-Shee plottychart
12:01 moritz_ plarty :-)
12:01 Su-Shee chotty! ;)
12:01 DanielC You could just forget about having the name mean anything and just name it after your favourite animal (e.g. lizzard).
12:01 reqamst cockatoo!
12:02 Su-Shee perlplott
12:02 reqamst perlchart
12:02 DanielC Well, that's certainly a unique name (cockatoo).
12:03 DanielC phart  ;-)
12:03 masak I like 'charty' or 'chartie'.
12:03 masak commute &
12:03 moritz_ http://www.cockatoosoftware.com.au/
12:03 moritz_ okay, anybody against 'charty'?
12:04 DanielC no objections
12:04 moritz_ 3
12:04 moritz_ 2
12:04 moritz_ 1
12:04 Su-Shee moritz_: Open source Web Charting and Graphing using only CSS and Javascript.
12:04 moritz_ sold
12:04 Su-Shee already exists.
12:04 moritz_ ouch
12:04 Su-Shee charty -> sourcefroge
12:04 DanielC wallaby
12:04 DanielC platypus
12:04 DanielC there are a lot of animal names.
12:05 reqamst so chotty?
12:05 DanielC Is there any animal that is known for drawing?
12:05 DanielC (besides humans)
12:05 jnthn Humans?
12:05 jnthn Oh, damm.
12:05 DanielC heh
12:05 reqamst :)
12:05 Su-Shee DanielC: purple
12:05 Su-Shee I mean the snail which delivers purple.
12:06 Su-Shee and *hihi* the red lice :)
12:06 reqamst purple is part of pidgin
12:06 jnthn Squids have ink.
12:06 jnthn But Squid is already well know open source project.
12:06 reqamst yes
12:06 reqamst it's pigdin main library
12:07 DanielC purple sounds ok, even if pigdin uses it.
12:07 azawawi rakudo build failure on win32 xp http://gist.github.com/171023
12:07 DanielC there are many things called purple
12:07 moritz_ plurple :-)
12:08 DanielC graphene ?
12:08 takadonet joined #perl6
12:08 takadonet morning all
12:08 azawawi moritz_: any idea why rakudo build is failing http://gist.github.com/171023 ?
12:09 DanielC grapheme would be sort of a reference to Perl's linguistic roots.
12:09 KatrinaTheLamia moritz_, you could name it after something from lovecraftian fiction ^.^
12:09 * moritz_ likes graphene
12:09 moritz_ KatrinaTheLamia: haven't read any  lovecraft, iirc
12:10 KatrinaTheLamia moritz_, heh, you should, it gets referenced a lot by geeks ^.^
12:10 abra joined #perl6
12:10 DanielC Note: graphene and grapheme (n vs m) are different things. I spelled it wrong the first time. With an "n" it is something to do with chemistry.
12:10 moritz_ DanielC: actually my working group does lots of transport calculations on graphene :)
12:11 KatrinaTheLamia DanielC, hmm... are you suggesting we name it after various designer drugs then?
12:11 * KatrinaTheLamia is trying hard to make a joke about that... but everything she can think of just ends up being extremely tasteless >.>
12:11 moritz_ there doesn't seem to be any software named 'graphene' yet
12:11 DanielC KatrinaTheLamia: I was actually thinking about grapheme, the smallest unit of written language.
12:12 DanielC A reference to Perl's linguistic roots. But I'm happy with graphene too.
12:12 KatrinaTheLamia DanielC, since it would be for graphing, that would actually be pretty good, to be honest... something to do with Escartes geography, or something like that
12:12 KatrinaTheLamia I dunno, I am being silly I guess
12:12 DanielC Yeah, I was thinking along those lines... grapheme/graphene sound like graphing.
12:15 nErVe joined #perl6
12:16 reqamst maybe look for name amongst famous artists?
12:16 moritz_ picassocharts?
12:16 DanielC I like graphene / grapheme
12:16 Su-Shee will surely get sued by paloma picasso.
12:16 ihrd left #perl6
12:17 KatrinaTheLamia naw... if we were to do an artist, we'd clearly need to go with something obscure, yet completely fitting for the subject
12:17 reqamst pastel?
12:17 * moritz_ would be happy with graphene too
12:17 KatrinaTheLamia yeah, I like graphene too as well ^.^
12:18 Su-Shee moritz_: like the graphene transistor clocks? ;)
12:18 reqamst :D
12:19 cj joined #perl6
12:19 Su-Shee (and now we know why companies invent totally bogus and stupid product names ;)
12:19 reqamst scribble?
12:19 Juerd joined #perl6
12:19 literal_ joined #perl6
12:19 jrockway joined #perl6
12:19 obra_ joined #perl6
12:20 frettled Su-Shee: and then we have "emergency acronyms" :D
12:20 frettled mostly used by the space and war industry
12:20 DanielC Tufte  (Edward Tufte - American statistician born in 1942, "the Da Vinci of data" - see Wikipedia)
12:20 ilogger2 joined #perl6
12:21 Su-Shee reqamst: exist, is a text editor ;)
12:21 reqamst Tufte, cool!
12:22 * azawawi tries to build rakudo on win32 after mingw32-make realclean
12:23 reqamst it's short, unique and have something common with charts ;)
12:23 DanielC Yeah.
12:24 moritz_ +1
12:24 moritz_ in german "dufte" is an old word for "cool"
12:25 DanielC Cool. I'll start saying "dufte" in front of my wife.
12:25 Su-Shee we should revive it. ;)
12:25 s1n joined #perl6
12:25 ilogger2 joined #perl6
12:25 Juerd joined #perl6
12:25 abra joined #perl6
12:25 takadonet joined #perl6
12:25 synth joined #perl6
12:25 Chillance joined #perl6
12:25 finanalyst joined #perl6
12:25 orafu joined #perl6
12:25 frederico joined #perl6
12:25 araujo joined #perl6
12:25 jjore joined #perl6
12:25 xinming_ joined #perl6
12:25 mj41 joined #perl6
12:25 cono joined #perl6
12:25 dukeleto joined #perl6
12:25 bionoid joined #perl6
12:25 dmpk2k joined #perl6
12:25 buu joined #perl6
12:25 elmex joined #perl6
12:25 lisppaste3 joined #perl6
12:25 PacoLinux joined #perl6
12:25 krakan joined #perl6
12:25 Khisanth joined #perl6
12:25 antiphase joined #perl6
12:25 renormalist joined #perl6
12:25 akl joined #perl6
12:25 nothingmuch joined #perl6
12:25 Matt-W joined #perl6
12:25 Eevee joined #perl6
12:25 reqamst dufte tufte
12:25 Su-Shee in the north there's also "toefte" ;)
12:25 moritz_ (the u in 'dufte' is pronounce the the oo in cool)
12:25 moritz_ anyway, tufte it is then
12:25 DanielC +1
12:27 PerlJam joined #perl6
12:27 nErVe joined #perl6
12:27 rjh joined #perl6
12:27 youwin joined #perl6
12:27 solarion joined #perl6
12:27 mikehh joined #perl6
12:27 cotto joined #perl6
12:27 reqamst joined #perl6
12:27 [particle] joined #perl6
12:27 mattp joined #perl6
12:27 huf joined #perl6
12:27 arthur-- joined #perl6
12:27 hcchien joined #perl6
12:27 adhoc joined #perl6
12:27 lambdabot joined #perl6
12:27 Trey joined #perl6
12:27 Helios joined #perl6
12:27 azawawi moritz_: it nows builds on win32...cool... it was a corrupted parrot directory...
12:28 TimToady joined #perl6
12:28 diakopter joined #perl6
12:28 yath joined #perl6
12:28 breinbaas joined #perl6
12:28 hatseflats joined #perl6
12:28 pjcj joined #perl6
12:28 IRSeekBot joined #perl6
12:28 chipdude joined #perl6
12:29 PerlJam joined #perl6
12:29 chipdude joined #perl6
12:29 IRSeekBot joined #perl6
12:29 pjcj joined #perl6
12:29 hatseflats joined #perl6
12:29 breinbaas joined #perl6
12:29 yath joined #perl6
12:29 diakopter joined #perl6
12:29 TimToady joined #perl6
12:29 Helios joined #perl6
12:29 Trey joined #perl6
12:29 lambdabot joined #perl6
12:29 adhoc joined #perl6
12:29 hcchien joined #perl6
12:29 arthur-- joined #perl6
12:29 huf joined #perl6
12:29 mattp joined #perl6
12:29 [particle] joined #perl6
12:29 reqamst joined #perl6
12:29 cotto joined #perl6
12:29 mikehh joined #perl6
12:29 solarion joined #perl6
12:29 youwin joined #perl6
12:29 rjh joined #perl6
12:29 nErVe joined #perl6
12:29 patmat joined #perl6
12:29 christine joined #perl6
12:29 silug joined #perl6
12:29 Woody2143 joined #perl6
12:29 cls_bsd joined #perl6
12:29 pmichaud joined #perl6
12:29 Ingmar joined #perl6
12:29 Grrrr joined #perl6
12:29 felipe joined #perl6
12:29 awwaiid joined #perl6
12:29 cookys joined #perl6
12:29 kst joined #perl6
12:29 zol joined #perl6
12:29 sunnavy joined #perl6
12:29 bloonix_ joined #perl6
12:29 bigpresh_ joined #perl6
12:29 edenc joined #perl6
12:29 cosimo joined #perl6
12:29 c9s joined #perl6
12:29 mkelly32 joined #perl6
12:29 krunen_ joined #perl6
12:29 integral joined #perl6
12:29 he_ joined #perl6
12:29 mberends joined #perl6
12:29 p6eval joined #perl6
12:29 tarbo2_ joined #perl6
12:29 tomaw_ joined #perl6
12:29 Maddingue joined #perl6
12:29 dalek joined #perl6
12:29 andreasg_ joined #perl6
12:29 ingy joined #perl6
12:29 rafl joined #perl6
12:29 shachaf joined #perl6
12:29 nicomen joined #perl6
12:29 Tene joined #perl6
12:29 jisom joined #perl6
12:29 spinclad joined #perl6
12:29 lucs joined #perl6
12:29 zetta joined #perl6
12:29 Aisling joined #perl6
12:29 ascent joined #perl6
12:29 sbp joined #perl6
12:29 nsh joined #perl6
12:29 cxreg joined #perl6
12:29 gabiruh joined #perl6
12:29 kolibrie_ joined #perl6
12:29 Gothmog_ joined #perl6
12:29 kent\n joined #perl6
12:29 jantore joined #perl6
12:29 RonOreck joined #perl6
12:29 frew joined #perl6
12:29 japhb joined #perl6
12:29 athomason joined #perl6
12:29 baest joined #perl6
12:29 xomas_ joined #perl6
12:29 simcop2387 joined #perl6
12:29 sri_kraih joined #perl6
12:29 BinGOs joined #perl6
12:29 wolverian joined #perl6
12:29 gfldex joined #perl6
12:29 drbean joined #perl6
12:29 leedo joined #perl6
12:29 mee joined #perl6
12:29 dnukem joined #perl6
12:29 wayland76 joined #perl6
12:29 cognominal joined #perl6
12:29 barney joined #perl6
12:29 KatrinaTheLamia joined #perl6
12:29 Patterner joined #perl6
12:29 jan__ joined #perl6
12:29 gbacon joined #perl6
12:29 eiro joined #perl6
12:29 zloyrusskiy joined #perl6
12:29 M_o_C joined #perl6
12:29 ejs joined #perl6
12:29 broquaint joined #perl6
12:29 DanielC joined #perl6
12:29 meppl joined #perl6
12:29 ispy_ joined #perl6
12:29 guest_007 joined #perl6
12:29 azawawi joined #perl6
12:29 omega_ joined #perl6
12:29 literal_ joined #perl6
12:29 obra_ joined #perl6
12:29 jrockway joined #perl6
12:29 moritz_ joined #perl6
12:29 ilogger2 joined #perl6
12:29 Juerd joined #perl6
12:29 abra joined #perl6
12:29 takadonet joined #perl6
12:29 synth joined #perl6
12:29 Chillance joined #perl6
12:29 finanalyst joined #perl6
12:29 orafu joined #perl6
12:29 frederico joined #perl6
12:29 araujo joined #perl6
12:29 jjore joined #perl6
12:29 xinming_ joined #perl6
12:29 mj41 joined #perl6
12:29 cono joined #perl6
12:29 dukeleto joined #perl6
12:29 bionoid joined #perl6
12:29 dmpk2k joined #perl6
12:29 buu joined #perl6
12:29 elmex joined #perl6
12:29 lisppaste3 joined #perl6
12:29 PacoLinux joined #perl6
12:29 s1n joined #perl6
12:29 krakan joined #perl6
12:29 Khisanth joined #perl6
12:29 antiphase joined #perl6
12:29 renormalist joined #perl6
12:29 akl joined #perl6
12:29 nothingmuch joined #perl6
12:29 Matt-W joined #perl6
12:29 Eevee joined #perl6
12:30 pmichaud joined #perl6
12:30 jrockway joined #perl6
12:30 barney joined #perl6
12:30 gfldex joined #perl6
12:30 sri_kraih joined #perl6
12:30 simcop2387 joined #perl6
12:30 athomason joined #perl6
12:30 RonOreck joined #perl6
12:30 jisom joined #perl6
12:30 mkelly32 joined #perl6
12:30 Grrrr joined #perl6
12:30 cls_bsd joined #perl6
12:30 Woody2143 joined #perl6
12:30 silug joined #perl6
12:31 moritz_ http://github.com/moritz/tufte/tree/master
12:31 DanielC *click*
12:31 moritz_ anybody who wants commit access please give me your github ID
12:32 DanielC danielc
12:32 moritz_ reqamst: do you also have a github account?
12:32 jnthn joined #perl6
12:33 takadonet graphs..... no thanks moritz_
12:33 DanielC masak sure does.
12:33 jnthn irc server fail
12:33 reqamst moritz_: yes, i have
12:33 reqamst moritz_: reqamst
12:34 moritz_ ok, masak, DanielC and reqamst are committers
12:35 DanielC Well, I'm off for lunch.
12:37 tomaw_- joined #perl6
12:40 PZt joined #perl6
13:07 masak joined #perl6
13:08 Psyche^ joined #perl6
13:13 wayland76 KatrinaTheLamia: It looks like I'll have to fight you for the title of "channel clown" :)
13:14 unitxt joined #perl6
13:14 masak no need to make it a singleton role. :)
13:14 * wayland76 swings at KatrinaTheLamia with a bladder full of whitewash on a string attached to a stick, missed, and the bladder his wayland76 in the back of the head.
13:15 wayland76 s/his/hit
13:16 KatrinaTheLamia well wayland76 ... with every channel clown there is always two, no more, no less. Master and apprentice...
13:16 * KatrinaTheLamia pulls out a rubber chicken with a pulley in the middle
13:16 KatrinaTheLamia in this case, I'll make an exception...
13:17 * KatrinaTheLamia has quit on error exception, "apparently she fights like a cow"
13:17 KatrinaTheLamia whoops >.>
13:17 masak moritz_: great name. kudos.
13:17 * wayland76 wonders out loud if he get seniority, completely unaware of any rubber chicken shenanigans :)
13:19 KatrinaTheLamia depends... do you speak Swahili?
13:19 * wayland76 has not read any Lovecraft either, neither HP or the Compaq variety, but has played the Call of Cthulhu roleplaying game
13:19 * wayland76 doesn't know whether he can speak Swahili or not, having never tried :)
13:20 KatrinaTheLamia well, we are in the same boat then
13:20 KatrinaTheLamia meh, we could always do something similar to DC... I'll be the channel's Harley Quinn and you can be Mr. J ~.^
13:20 wayland76 I had a book recommended to be personally by Larry Wall.  Does that count? :)
13:20 moritz_ masak: not my idea, but thanks anyway
13:21 * wayland76 discovers, after a quick Google, that not owning a television makes you miss references occasionally
13:22 wayland76 KatrinaTheLamia: How about we take turns being the straight man :)
13:22 wayland76 @karma KatrinaTheLamia
13:22 lambdabot KatrinaTheLamia has a karma of 0
13:22 wayland76 KatrinaTheLamia++
13:22 wayland76 @karma KatrinaTheLamia
13:22 lambdabot KatrinaTheLamia has a karma of 1
13:22 KatrinaTheLamia I find the concept of being a "straight man" very hard to understand ^.^
13:22 wayland76 "The first hit is free, kid" :)
13:23 KatrinaTheLamia oh... does this mean I got to dress in horrid fashion and hang around in seedy neighbourhoods now, Mr. W?
13:23 Su-Shee popcorn anyone? ;)
13:23 frederico joined #perl6
13:23 wayland76 KatrinaTheLamia: Metaphorically.  And having been brought up sheltered/bookish, I'm afraid I speak pre-1960s English, so that when I say "man", you have to guess whether I mean "man", or "person"
13:24 wayland76 The one neighbourhood that we expect you to frequent is #perl6
13:25 KyleHa joined #perl6
13:25 wayland76 But that's certainly not seedy -- I'm not the only person who has said something like "I like being on #perl6 because I'm the stupidest person there" :)
13:25 KatrinaTheLamia well... that "not being subjectated to the horrors of Tv" kind of puts you ahead of others in my books... though some of the cartoons in the 1990s were not too bad
13:25 wayland76 I saw Astro Boy a few times :)
13:25 Su-Shee who needs a tv to be up2date? ;)
13:26 wayland76 Su-Shee: Who needs to be up2date? :)
13:26 KatrinaTheLamia wayland76, which version of the Mighty Atom? The 1960s series? The 1980s series? or the 2003 series?
13:26 wayland76 KatrinaTheLamia: Whatever was on television in the 1980s :)
13:26 Su-Shee wayland76: tv meme sluts like me ;)
13:27 KatrinaTheLamia I dunno, the reason Mighty Atom was build kind of disturbs me... kind of a work around of the actual greaving process of the person who build him.
13:27 bpetering joined #perl6
13:28 KatrinaTheLamia (the Mighty Atom, Astro Boy, was built to be modeled after his creator's son who had died in a car accident)
13:28 * wayland76 only knows about Mighty Atom because he once read an article about how middle-aged Japanese car company executives really want to build the Mighty Atom = Astro Boy :)
13:28 araujo joined #perl6
13:29 KatrinaTheLamia wayland76, well, for proper clowning, look for episodes of the EWJ cartoon, the Sam and Max cartoon, Freakazoid, and oh shoot... I am forgetting another >.>
13:29 KyleHa "proper clowning"
13:29 KatrinaTheLamia also Reboot is fun to watch... but Season 3 and 4 got rather serious. However Season 4 is fun to parody. Who wouldn't want to be a Mainframe Neoviral?
13:29 wayland76 I was thinking more of "The Goon Show", a 1950s BBC Radio comedy that sometimes even had a script beforehand.
13:30 KatrinaTheLamia wayland76, see, and you have just out crazied me ^.^
13:30 wayland76 Although I have only listened to the reruns :)
13:30 KatrinaTheLamia I love the Goon Show... why didn't it occur to me ^.^
13:30 mkelly32 freakazoid... heh. the entire internet from 1998 in his head
13:31 wayland76 KatrinaTheLamia: What country?
13:31 KatrinaTheLamia mkelly32, it could be worse. He could have Something Awful and 4chan in his head... but that wouldn't make for a very child friendly cartoon... I don't think even Heavy Metal magazine would dare run such a thing
13:32 masak are List and Array iterable in some sense?
13:32 moritz_ masak: yes
13:32 mkelly32 and ricardo montalbán as his nemesis...
13:32 moritz_ you do that every day, no?
13:32 masak moritz_: whiche sense is that?
13:32 moritz_ for @array { .. }
13:32 moritz_ that iterates over @array
13:32 moritz_ see S07 for the proposed low-level API
13:32 masak moritz_: so they have a .get method, yes?
13:33 masak moritz_: is there a role involved too?
13:33 masak and does List and Array do that role themselves, or is it Positional that does it for them?
13:33 wayland76 Definitely a role
13:33 KatrinaTheLamia Mr. W, I live in a Pirate Outpost in the Communist Terrorist Stronghold in the Frozen Arctic Tundra North of the 49th parallel... or at least that is what I gather my country is from American news... though they usually leave out the 49th Parallel bit... it helps when they don't give an actual location on the map.
13:33 mkelly32 they had a few star trek referennces ("ooey goey worms in your ear"), but i don't think they ever quite yelled "KAAAAHN!"
13:33 wayland76 It was designed by ruoso so it has to have a role :)
13:34 moritz_ masak: ruoso is the one to ask, if S07 isn't enlightening
13:34 * masak tries S07 first, then ruoso
13:34 wayland76 I did some S07 hacking, but most of the ideas came from ruoso
13:34 * ruoso might be here... might not be here... who knows...
13:35 KatrinaTheLamia schroedinger's ruoso?
13:35 wayland76 KatrinaTheLamia: I just remember hearing something about John Lennon trying to explain the Goon Show to Americans, so I wondered (I'm in .au, in case anyone cares) :)
13:35 frew__ joined #perl6
13:36 wayland76 He may or may not have been, but he can't be any more -- we've observed him :)
13:36 jauaor joined #perl6
13:37 * ruoso hopes nobody tries to observe me
13:37 KatrinaTheLamia heh... well, my mom is Orange Irish, and my dad spent most of his youth in Briton when grandpa was stationed there (technically Canada was still part of UK until like 1984, 1983)... so my parents had a lot of British influence. It just entered into me as I grew up.
13:37 * wayland76 apologises to ruoso for dashing his hopes
13:38 KatrinaTheLamia well... now that ruoso has been observed... care to swing him around my his tail?
13:38 masak I don't quite get the answers I want from S07.
13:38 masak ruoso: OH HAI.
13:38 wayland76 KatrinaTheLamia: I have American parents, but grew up in .au, and picked up some British related culture somehow
13:39 * ruoso X|
13:39 masak ruoso: if I promise not to observe you, can I ask some questions?
13:39 ruoso masak, you can ask'em... and I'll try to answer... but I'm quite in a hurry
13:39 masak ruoso: is the idea 'Array does Iterator' in some sense?
13:39 * wayland76 does not swing ruoso, due to respecting people who are actually working on an implementation of Perl 6 :)
13:40 masak ruoso: would this work: my @array; my $first-item = $array.Iterator.get;
13:40 KatrinaTheLamia wayland76, well, from what I've seen of Aussies here in Canada, most of what Aussies say and do makes a lot more sense than what a lot of Americans suggest as being normal
13:40 ruoso yes... it would...
13:40 ruoso masak, but @array.get should work as well
13:40 ruoso except that @array.get will consume the @array
13:40 masak ruoso: what simple check can I do on an object to find out whether it'll behave like an iterator?
13:40 ruoso while @array.Iterator.get won't
13:40 KatrinaTheLamia wayland76, also, I think I am going to need to call you Bruce. Just to ease confusion around here.
13:40 masak $obj.can('get')?
13:41 ruoso masak, $obj ~~ Iterator
13:41 KatrinaTheLamia lmao
13:41 masak ruoso: thanks. that's all.
13:41 * BruceLogicalPosi tivismBradman
13:41 BruceLogicalPosi There, now I got it all in
13:42 KatrinaTheLamia Mr. W, care to remind #Perl6 of the faculty rules?
13:43 wayland76 KatrinaTheLamia: I would consider it, but that would probably contravene the #perl6 culture :)
13:44 KatrinaTheLamia lol
13:44 missingthepoint can I be Barry?
13:44 wayland76 Although strangely enough, there's an editor that (IIRC) does Perl 6 syntax highlighting called "Padre"
13:44 KatrinaTheLamia missingthepoint, well, as long as you don't try to claim you are the Tick
13:46 KatrinaTheLamia anyways... time to eat something... though, I didn't roll a 20 on kitchen appliances, so I cannot has waffles of +9/+9 delicious... so... I am think blueberry pancakes with maple syrup.
13:46 wayland76 wayland76 hates it when his server crashes due to being too cold (it's a weird bit of hardware)
13:46 * missingthepoint hates it when BOSS's server crashes for no good reason
13:47 missingthepoint oh, wait. there is a good reason. IT'S RUNNING WINDOWS
13:47 moritz_ usually electronics run *better* when cool :-)
13:47 wayland76 moritz_: Not this one.  Unless it's too warm to wear my jacket, the thing won't even boot.  It's a reproducible problem :)
13:48 wayland76 That's why I'm in the process of replacing it.  Should be done in a few weeks
13:48 * BarryCategorical ImperativeAblett
13:49 BarryCategorical wayland76, we are similar, you and I
13:49 Su-Shee understanding other people's code is really tiresome after a few hours.
13:49 KatrinaTheLamia BarryCategorical,  hmm... clearly it needs to run a real OS. I suggest until he learns better how to handle a computer, he runs Contiki OS on a good solid C=64
13:49 KatrinaTheLamia BarryCategorical, IMO, it would be a vast improvement
13:50 BarryCategorical the nick? :D
13:50 * wayland76 is reading up on Barry now :)
13:50 wayland76 BarryCategorical: No ContikiOS on C64
13:50 wayland76 You've heard of C4, the explosive?
13:51 moritz_ .oO( my favourite :-)
13:51 wayland76 Well, C-64 is 16 times as explosive
13:51 * BarryCategorical is suddenly vastly scarder of moritz_ ...
13:51 wayland76 That's why they used it on the moon mission :)
13:51 KatrinaTheLamia I've had people scared I'd make C4 in High School... I will note, school life got a lot better for me after columbine ^.^
13:52 * wayland76 somehow managed not to have too bad a school experience.  Not sure how that happened, though
13:52 BarryCategorical ^.^
13:52 * KatrinaTheLamia just realised that she is still an extremely young snake
13:52 moritz_ BarryCategorical: bombing over IRC is not yet ripe for a wide market
13:52 moritz_ so don't worry
13:52 KatrinaTheLamia moritz_, yeah, that is why envelopes and anthrax were invented ^.^. They make great gifts ^.^
13:52 * wayland76 lies on the floor, looking for carpet bombs, just in case :)
13:53 moritz_ KatrinaTheLamia: but they are also hard to deliver via IRC...
13:53 moritz_ anyway, I should point out that this channel is publicly logged :-)
13:53 KatrinaTheLamia moritz_, meh, I've already long since been  put on the no fly list
13:54 KatrinaTheLamia though, I do find that kind of retarded... there is one terrorist on a plane, and over fifty other people... I am sure the others can easily take him.
13:54 mkelly32 i used to be on that, too. at least, some M* Kelly was...
13:55 mkelly32 because, clearly, no terrorist would ever think to fly under an alias and use fake identification...
13:55 szbalint some people were joking at YAPC::EU that americans wouldn't name buildings C1 to C8
13:55 szbalint because someone might ask "where is C4?"
13:56 wayland76 No, that's N* Kelly.
13:56 BarryCategorical "it was liberated"
13:56 mkelly32 heh. that reminds me of a prank i heard of. someone got 4 pigs, labeled them "1", "2", "3", "5"... set them loose on a school campus. people spent all day trying to find pig #4.
13:56 KatrinaTheLamia I lived in an apartment C5... everybody kept going to apartment C4 to find me for some odd reason though >.>
13:56 moritz_ somehow that reminds me of the disk world where the rooms where numberd 5, 6, 7, 7b, 9, ...
13:56 wayland76 They don't let him on planes because he won't take off his metal armour to go through security :)
13:57 __ash__ joined #perl6
13:57 KatrinaTheLamia wayland76, I would have figured it was R. Kelly... but then that joke was old and stupid the first time it was made.
13:57 * jauaor lives in C1 apt
13:57 * KatrinaTheLamia didn't really get the whole R. Kelly case in the states... it really made no sense to her what so ever
13:57 jauaor :P
13:58 * wayland76 missed the R. Kelly and M. Kelly references, but posts http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&amp;q=ned+kelly+armour&amp;revid=583246249&amp;ei=PFaNSt3VHJaIkQX_2cyZDA&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=revisions_inline&amp;resnum=0&amp;ct=broad-revision&amp;cd=1&amp;start=0 for people looking for the N Kelly reference
13:59 BarryCategorical Barry and Bruce inflict massive Australian culture on #perl6...
13:59 * mkelly32 is getting hilighted too many times!
13:59 jauaor fame has a price
13:59 * wayland76 remembers the difference between Australia and yoghurt
13:59 wayland76 ...
13:59 moritz_ just imagine how many times _why got hilighted :-)
13:59 wayland76 yoghurt has live culture :)
14:01 masak _why's disappearance has certainly made people appreciate the guy more.
14:02 * moritz_ also liked his brother better when he was across the ocean
14:03 BarryCategorical wow, _why really disappeared.
14:04 * wayland76 suddenly realises where he's seen the word "Lamia" before -- AD&D Mostrous Manual :)
14:05 sri_kraih_ joined #perl6
14:05 KatrinaTheLamia I am not that much of a monster... Hera just is jealous cause Zeus likes us better than her... hence a rather long slander campaign of the ages
14:06 KatrinaTheLamia part of why it is so easy for me to be a Discordian ^.^
14:06 wayland76 Ah, yeah, you get that.  Those Greek gods, I dunno.  You and Arachne... :)
14:07 KatrinaTheLamia well, the biggest issue was that the Greeks, great blokes, couldn't really be trusted with history. They suffered from indigestion you see ^.^
14:08 * wayland76 wonders if he's missed the joke, unless it's that a bad past gives you bad history, and a bad repast gives you indigestion
14:08 KatrinaTheLamia wayland76, ! Ah, in which case, it is time you were enlightened, Eris style.
14:08 * KatrinaTheLamia grabs the link
14:10 KatrinaTheLamia http://principiadiscordia.com/ << here we go wayland76 ... a treasure trove of enlightenment ^.^
14:12 Tene KatrinaTheLamia: →←
14:17 rfordinal joined #perl6
14:24 hercynium joined #perl6
14:26 * KatrinaTheLamia cannot make out what Tene wrote...
14:27 Tene KatrinaTheLamia: in ascii, -><-
14:27 Tene five-fingered hand of eris
14:27 KatrinaTheLamia ah ^.^
14:27 Tene brb, teaching.
14:27 KatrinaTheLamia yes, I am quite madly in love with Eris... she took my heart some time ago, and replaced it with a golden apple. I took that to mean I am very beautiful ^.^
14:28 Tene A very reasonable interpretation.
14:28 KatrinaTheLamia then all is lost ^.^
14:29 arthur-- joined #perl6
14:30 * jnthn back
14:31 KatrinaTheLamia wb jnthn
14:31 wayland76 jnthn: From the time I challenge KatrinaTheLamia for the title of channel clown, there's nothing worth backlogging
14:31 Psyche^ joined #perl6
14:31 wayland76 (unless you count that ruoso said that Array does Iterator)
14:32 KatrinaTheLamia wayland76, such is the nature of challenging somebody for channel clown ^.^
14:32 jnthn I already knew that. ;-)
14:32 * jnthn skips backlogging
14:32 KatrinaTheLamia jnthn, also ruoso has been observed, that may be of note too ^.^
14:32 wayland76 KatrinaTheLamia: Yeah, I know.  But I wanted jnthn to have some free time to do coding, since he's one of the two core developers of Rakudo Perl 6
14:33 masak despite specifically hoping not to be observed.
14:33 wayland76 (unless I've missed another core developer)
14:33 __ash__ i have a question about class bodies that i am wondering if it some people may, are they supposed to be executable in the sense of how ruby's class bodies are executable?
14:33 __ash__ s/may/may know/
14:34 moritz_ __ash__: class bodies are executed at compile time
14:34 moritz_ __ash__: and during execution they construct the class
14:35 KatrinaTheLamia hmm... I should prolly head on down to my therapists... he may be worried about me...
14:35 szbalint (short circuiting backlogging)++
14:36 KatrinaTheLamia hmmm
14:36 KatrinaTheLamia (-><-)++
14:36 wayland76 Now for a demo:
14:37 wayland76 @karma (-><-)
14:37 KatrinaTheLamia @karma -><-
14:37 lambdabot (-><-) has a karma of 1
14:37 lambdabot -><- has a karma of 0
14:37 wayland76 @karma wayland
14:37 lambdabot wayland has a karma of 125
14:37 KatrinaTheLamia hmm... well atleast it is not 1006... prolly about the level of half a Radita.
14:37 KatrinaTheLamia Raditz*
14:38 wayland76 (afk, back in 5)
14:39 pmichaud Good morning, #perl6
14:39 jnthn lolitspmichaud
14:40 nErVe joined #perl6
14:41 azawawi joined #perl6
14:43 moritz_ oh hai
14:44 azawawi moritz_: any idea what PERL6HERE is doing in Cursor.pmc and STD.pm ?
14:44 molaf joined #perl6
14:44 moritz_ azawawi: no.
14:44 azawawi moritz_: the default value is a strange utf-8 that is showing as a block here
14:45 KyleHa joined #perl6
14:45 moritz_ then you know more than I do
14:45 azawawi :)
14:53 mikehh_ joined #perl6
14:54 payload joined #perl6
14:55 __ash__ jnthn: if I were to try to get $a.Role::foo(); to work, would that be a daunting task you think?
14:56 nihiliad joined #perl6
14:57 jnthn __ash__: I was pondering hacking the punner.
14:57 jnthn Though was wondering if I might be able to think of something cleaner.
14:58 __ash__ whats the punner?
14:59 wayland76 'night all.  1am means it's after my bedtime
14:59 wayland76 __ash__: When a role is made to work like a class, we say it's "punned" as a class.  Does that help?
15:00 __ash__ okay, is that when it makes a blank object and applies the role to it?  kinda like calling new on a role?
15:05 zloyrusskiy joined #perl6
15:06 jnthn __ash__: Yes, pretty much
15:06 jnthn Well, .new on the role puns it and instantiates the pun.
15:07 jnthn Basically, find_method on a role hands back an invokable that puns and re-dispatches.
15:07 jnthn We may be able to handle this by detecting in that invokable (I think it's defined in src/classes/Role.pir) that we haven't actually got a role as the invocant...
15:07 jnthn And then do something from there.
15:08 jnthn It'll probably take a little experimenting.
15:10 zloyrusskiy joined #perl6
15:10 cotto joined #perl6
15:11 __ash__ in the !select method?
15:12 jnthn __ash__: No
15:12 jnthn Right at the bottom
15:13 jnthn See P6opaque.pmc for the name...I forget it off hand (sorry, a bit distracted dealing with some other bits...)
15:13 dalek rakudo: e0820fa | pmichaud++ | build/Makefile.in:
15:13 dalek rakudo: Patch to allow Windows to link with ICU.
15:13 dalek rakudo: Patch courtesy Fran�ois Perrad <francois.perrad@gadz.org>.
15:13 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e0820fa5d6c38dc79dfd7e6005b5588916a80207
15:14 __ash__ no worries, i am not trying to keep you from getting your work done, i might play around in the Role.pir file and see if i can get it to explode, or work, probably explode though
15:20 rfordinal joined #perl6
15:21 justatheory joined #perl6
15:27 eldragon2_ joined #perl6
15:28 cj joined #perl6
15:29 cj diakopter: any news on ironperl? :)
15:33 jnthn __ash__: OK, I can concentrate on Rakudo again now. :-)
15:33 jnthn __ash__: It's .sub '!pun_helper' that I was meaning.
15:34 __ash__ kk, i saw that one
15:35 jnthn Hmm. Looking it now I'm not quite so sure though.
15:38 __ash__ i think right now its the !select that throws the error
15:38 jnthn What is the error again?
15:38 jnthn is it that it can't call !select?
15:38 __ash__ Method '!select' not found for invocant of class 'Foo'
15:38 jnthn Right.
15:39 jnthn That's because normally you do TheRole.meth
15:39 jnthn And so the first parameter is TheRole
15:39 jnthn Whereas here it's not.
15:40 __ash__ i am not sure if this is related, or something to worry about right now, but indirectly calling a role method (like how you can with a class) doesn't work either
15:41 __ash__ it gives invoke() not implemented in class 'Undef' as its error
15:41 jnthn __ash__: Code example?
15:41 moritz_ rakudo: role A { method foo { 'bar' } }; class B does A { }; B.new.'foo'.say
15:41 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«bar␤»
15:41 moritz_ seems to work.
15:41 * moritz_ wonders if we have tests for that
15:42 jnthn moritz_: I dunno. We don't have a test for that glorious hyper + .+ + candidate list dispatch I demonstrated yesterday either though ;-)
15:42 __ash__ rakudo: role A { method foo { 'bar' } }; class B does A { }; my B $b .= new; A::foo $b;
15:42 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤in Main (/tmp/BPUPLKpzHd:2)␤»
15:42 jnthn __ash__: Oh, that.
15:42 jnthn I'm not convinced that should work..
15:43 jnthn What if it's a parametric role, and all that...
15:43 carlin_ joined #perl6
15:43 moritz_ uhm, that's trying to call a method as a sub
15:43 moritz_ don't think that's supported at all
15:43 __ash__ oh, okay, i wasn't sure if it was in the spec or not, i just assumed it worked for classes, and since a role method is essenctially a class method i figured it would function similiarly
15:44 jnthn moritz_: It is, and it's fine in a class.
15:44 jnthn Well the thing is that in a sense roles are always parametric...
15:44 __ash__ rakudo: role A { method foo { 'bar' } }; class B does A { }; my B $b .= new; B::foo $b;
15:44 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤in Main (/tmp/KDenz5Ocas:2)␤»
15:45 jnthn __ash__: Right, but B::foo does not exist.
15:45 jnthn (We shouldn't Null PMC Access, but we certainly should not find anything there.)
15:45 jnthn Anyway, back to the task at hand...
15:46 jnthn I'm tempted as a first cut to, in P6opaque, attach the role to the clone'd !pun_helper just as we attach the name now.
15:47 jnthn That'd get us some of the way.
15:48 jnthn Then after that it can be handled in !pun_helper.
15:48 wesome_i_haz_op woo
15:49 moritz_ prepared for a *really* bad programming joke? http://ircz.de/static/pics/2009_06_29_19_47_28/nerdcore017.gif
15:49 TimToady i can haz op 2?
15:49 phenny TimToady: 19 Aug 10:21Z <wayland76> tell TimToady Next time I mess up the documentation, feel free to tell me to fix it.  If I'm in documentation mode, I can usually find the time
15:50 moritz_ TEHR U GO
15:50 TimToady kthnx
15:51 jnthn moritz_: That's...terrible.
15:52 __ash__ i didn't see it coming, then it happened... i just died a little inside... *now to forward to all my programming buddies*
15:52 jferrero joined #perl6
15:54 jnthn OK, so if I'm in a branch in git and I want to pull the latest changes in from master
15:55 jnthn I just do git rebase master ?
15:55 masak yup.
15:55 masak jnthn++
15:55 moritz_ and cross your fingers :-)
15:56 pmichaud TimToady: ...did you learn any new advanced hieroglyphics that we can stick into Perl 6?  ;-)
15:56 jnthn masak: omg it worked!
15:56 jnthn ;-)
15:56 cdarroch joined #perl6
15:56 masak jnthn: I know! rebase is 21th century technology, I tell you!
15:56 * jnthn continues happily breaking stuff in his branch.
15:58 TimToady pmichaud: I want opening and closing cartouche characters now for brackets
15:58 payload joined #perl6
16:00 * masak adds a (hopefully) motivating SYNOPSIS to the Tufte README
16:01 KyleHa What's a cartouche?  Something to do with automobiles?
16:01 moritz_ masak++ # Just Ducking Foo It
16:01 masak :>
16:02 DanielC Can I get the Tufte URL again please? I forgot to bookmark it.
16:02 KyleHa I'm thinking "back bumper".
16:02 moritz_ DanielC: http://github.com/moritz/tufte/tree/master
16:03 jnthn Tufte?
16:03 DanielC *click*
16:03 DanielC *bookmark*
16:03 jnthn oh, that's what it ended up getting called
16:03 moritz_ right.
16:03 jnthn Well, it's better than PlotHead. ;-)
16:03 moritz_ funny thing is that Mr. Tufte seems to criticize the way normal charts/plots are done
16:04 moritz_ like we want to produce them :-)
16:04 DanielC jnthn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Tufte
16:04 masak moritz_: well, let's try to make him at least a little proud. :)
16:04 moritz_ masak: aye
16:04 KyleHa I like PlotHead, but I might have gone with PlotTwist.
16:05 moritz_ heh, SVG supports twisting coordinate transformations :-)
16:05 moritz_ or something like that
16:05 DanielC If we ever find another name we like better we can change name.
16:06 KyleHa Maybe you could get some US Govt attention by calling it TerroristPlot.
16:06 reqamst yes, name isin't the most important
16:07 DanielC KyleHa: I once heard about an airport announcement looking for a guy called Al Kyda.
16:07 moritz_ right, beautiful charts are
16:08 KyleHa DanielC: I'd laugh if it weren't plausible.
16:09 DanielC KyleHa: I don't think the guy was in trouble. I got the impression that it was just a funny coincidence. But I don't know.
16:10 DanielC masak: Looking at the README... what do the colons mean? As in :width => 300
16:10 masak oops, did I miss those? :/
16:10 * masak checks
16:10 reqamst ?
16:10 masak yup, thanks.
16:10 DanielC Ahh... they are a Rubyism?
16:11 mkelly32 does => not auto-quote the LHS anymore?
16:11 masak DanielC: sort of... I took the Ruby code and translated it. missed those colons.
16:11 masak fixed.
16:11 masak DanielC++
16:11 DanielC k
16:12 DanielC @karma
16:12 lambdabot You have a karma of 21
16:12 masak the previous code would parse, but probably NDWYM.
16:15 __ash__ jnthn: oh, i found where i got the impression you should be able to indirectly call role methods, in S12, methods, indirect notation, but i just realized its a different syntax than what i was referring to, it would be more like Role::method $obj: ; (forgot about the : in the indirect notation)
16:15 __ash__ well, theoretically, if you can do $obj.Role::method(); then according to that Role::method $obj: ; should work also
16:16 jnthn __ash__: Ah, that is different 'cus I think we essentially emit the same code.
16:16 jnthn That is, Role::method $obj: ; should probably result in the same PAST as $obj.Role::method
16:16 __ash__ yeah, i see that now, i forgot about the : making it indirect
16:17 KyleHa @karma
16:17 lambdabot You have a karma of 40
16:17 KyleHa @karma kyle
16:17 lambdabot kyle has a karma of 256
16:17 KyleHa Nyuck nyuck nyuck.
16:21 alester joined #perl6
16:35 __ash__ well, i have to head to class, jnthn i am going to poke around in the Role.pir to see if i can learn anything more about how role's methods work and how to get $a.Role::foo() to work
16:37 jnthn __ash__++: great!
16:37 jnthn Have fun. ;-)
16:38 missingthepoint DanielC: TV show, here... "Chaser's War on Everything" :)
16:39 missingthepoint Rubyism: :foo is a symbol
16:40 missingthepoint that is, ":foo" refers to a Symbol object
16:40 szabgab joined #perl6
16:40 missingthepoint and every instance of :foo in your code refers to the same symbol object
16:40 missingthepoint rationale: less memory usage, apparently
16:40 missingthepoint (not sure i buy that)
16:43 mkelly32 well, each :foo is just a reference to some global :foo. whereas each "foo" is a reference to a different "foo", as i understand it
16:43 missingthepoint masak++ # naming, i can haz tufte book amazon?
16:44 TimToady better to just keep track of which things are mutable/immutable and let the system decide whether to coalesce immutables
16:45 missingthepoint TimToady: why let the system decide as opposed to the user?
16:46 TimToady because it's really "make", not let
16:46 TimToady and the system is the slave, not the user
16:46 mkelly32 well, i think "foo" is mutable in ruby, isn't it? don't think they have separate String and StringBuffer or whatever, like Java
16:47 missingthepoint well, amen to the second point... is that all? i'm interested in the semantics of similar stuff in perl 6, seeing i'm supposed to be helping masak with his scruffy port :)
16:48 TimToady S02 takes a first crack at documenting which types are mutable and which aren't
16:51 Tene Sup dawg, I heard you like lions.
16:53 missingthepoint Tene: ?       :)
16:57 Tene missingthepoint: "10:51 -!- lionWrk is now known as LionMadeOfLions"
16:58 Tene I made a reference to an INTERNETS MEME.  The implied continuation of my statement was "So I put a lion in your lion."
16:58 missingthepoint oh i missed that one. where's the meme school?
16:58 missingthepoint (waiting for someone to say 'here')
16:59 moritz_ it's called 4chan
16:59 jnthn How is meme formed? How man get knowledge?
16:59 missingthepoint moritz NEWLY updated and jnthn. you have both nearly made me spit coke over my keyboard.
17:00 missingthepoint (moritz_: java joke.)
17:00 * Tene lol'd.
17:08 nihiliad joined #perl6
17:09 mberends missingthepoint missed a point. typical.
17:09 missingthepoint mberends doesn't know how right he is... :P
17:10 nihiliad joined #perl6
17:11 reqamst I first time compiled rakudo and it's sloooow. :(
17:11 moritz_ scruffy makes heavy use of delegation, including lvalues
17:11 * moritz_ wonders if rakudo supports that
17:12 jnthn moritz_: Delegation as in, handles?
17:12 moritz_ jnthn: right
17:12 jnthn Rakudo support for handles is quite featureful.
17:12 jnthn And tested.
17:12 reqamst there will be some hard optimisations?
17:12 moritz_ even for lvalues?
17:12 moritz_ reqamst: there will.
17:12 jnthn But I'm not sure it's had enough abuse^W yet.
17:13 jnthn moritz_: I'm not sure if that's any different that lvalue routines in general?
17:13 * moritz_ tests
17:13 nErVe joined #perl6
17:13 [particle] reqamst: yes, someday
17:14 moritz_ Null PMC access in find_method()
17:14 jnthn reqamst: There are various bottlenecks. One of them is calling / invocation.
17:14 takadonet reqamst: They are mostly working on features first
17:14 jnthn reqamst: That particular area will improve in the not too distant future.
17:14 jnthn But there's still plenty of others.
17:14 zloyrusskiy joined #perl6
17:14 jnthn moritz_: Heh, file rakudobug ;-)
17:15 moritz_ jnthn: yes, but I'll commit tests first
17:15 reqamst Good to know. :) Today I need 10 seconds to run 'say "hello"'
17:16 moritz_ reqamst: that *is* slow - 1.6s on my machine
17:16 missingthepoint reqamst: just curious, what's your hardward like? :)
17:16 reqamst yes, my testmachine is old (celeron 900mhz, 256ddr ram), but...
17:16 jnthn < 1s on mine...
17:16 moritz_ reqamst: you can also try to configure parrot with --optimize
17:16 reqamst moritz_: oh, I will try
17:17 * moritz_ tries that too
17:17 reqamst it's pure arch linux, without X
17:24 * jnthn almost gets the container traits refactor working...
17:28 moritz_ reqamst: with optimized parrot it's "only" 1.1s here (down from 1.6)
17:30 missingthepoint rakudo: say 10 * (1.1 / 1.6)
17:30 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«6.875␤»
17:35 reqamst this could mean 5sec faster for me
17:36 reqamst and getting rakudo usable
17:37 moritz_ jnthn: it turns out lvalue method delegation *does* work...
17:37 moritz_ jnthn: however there's something fishy with initializing the attribute on which the 'handles' is defined
17:38 moritz_ actually it's nto related to 'handles' at all ;-)
17:39 jnthn moritz_: Ah, OK.
17:39 * jnthn wonders if this is good or bad. :-)
17:39 moritz_ rakudo: class A { }; class B { has A $.x; submethod BUILD { $!x .= new() } }; say B.new.x.WHAT
17:39 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Failure()␤»
17:40 moritz_ jnthn: that should be A()
17:40 moritz_ rakudo: class A { }; class B { has A $.x; submethod BUILD { $!x .= new() } }; say B.new.x.defined
17:40 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«0␤»
17:41 jnthn moritz_: Ah, that bug.
17:41 moritz_ so it's know=
17:41 moritz_ ?
17:41 moritz_ and ticketed?
17:42 jnthn I'm pretty sure I saw a ticket related to it.
17:42 moritz_ ok
17:42 pugs_svn joined #perl6
17:45 pugs_svn r28042 | moritz++ | [t/spec] simplify and unfudge lvalue delegation tests
17:46 reqamst o, pugs is alive
17:46 frew reqamst: that's the spectest
17:46 frew not really pugs itself
17:46 reqamst mhm
17:46 moritz_ it just lives in the pugs repo
17:47 reqamst why is it died?
17:47 reqamst people don't like haskell?
17:47 moritz_ because audreyt++ got ill and had to re-focus after her recovery
17:52 missingthepoint how is she doing?
17:53 moritz_ I think she's doing fine
17:53 moritz_ but she doesn't do so much publicly exposed hacking anymore (which caused lots of stress, I suppose)
17:55 jnthn rakudo: my Int $x = 4.2;
17:55 jnthn rakudo: my Int $x = 4; $x = 4.2;
17:56 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Assignment type check failed; expected Int, but got Num␤in Main (/tmp/gxAZpxEcZj:2)␤»
17:56 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Assignment type check failed; expected Int, but got Num␤in Main (/tmp/IqZiKWkP2z:2)␤»
17:56 missingthepoint ok, good to hear. tis a shame when a community loses someone of that skill level... look what just happened with _why
17:57 moritz_ aye
17:57 moritz_ she does continue to contribute to perl - just look at her CPAN dir
17:59 pmichaud back from lunch
17:59 missingthepoint aye.
18:00 KyleHa1 joined #perl6
18:02 missingthepoint oh hai pmichaud.
18:04 arthur-_ joined #perl6
18:04 araujo joined #perl6
18:04 unitxt joined #perl6
18:04 obra_ joined #perl6
18:04 omega_ joined #perl6
18:04 broquaint joined #perl6
18:04 ascent joined #perl6
18:04 ingy joined #perl6
18:04 dalek joined #perl6
18:06 rfordinal joined #perl6
18:06 literal joined #perl6
18:06 guest_007 joined #perl6
18:06 wayland76 joined #perl6
18:06 cxreg joined #perl6
18:06 tarbo2_ joined #perl6
18:06 p6eval joined #perl6
18:06 he_ joined #perl6
18:07 jnthn gah, so close and yet so far
18:07 jnthn ok, dinner break
18:23 nicomen Solved the remaining issues with perl6 here, but forgot to write it down! :-) http://my.opera.com/Wargamez/albums/showpic.dml?picture=11762449&amp;album=859407
18:31 missingthepoint pmichaud: did you see the progress on csv?
18:32 simcop2387 joined #perl6
18:33 mikehh_ rakudo (e0820fa) builds on parrot r40676 - make test PASS, make spectest (up to 28042) 3 tests fail - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (gcc)
18:33 mikehh_ t/spec/S06-advanced_subroutine_features/wrap.rakudo fails with Lexical '@log' not found after ok 6 - wrapper after
18:34 mikehh_ t/spec/S04-declarations/my.rakudo - Failed test:  48
18:34 mikehh_ t/spec/S29-context/eval.rakudo - Failed test:  1
18:36 pmurias joined #perl6
18:36 pmurias hi
18:36 lambdabot pmurias: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
18:38 szabgab joined #perl6
18:38 pmurias ruoso: re including smop test in p5 build i haven't tried it yet, but i'll look into it
18:42 M_o_C joined #perl6
18:45 masak joined #perl6
18:45 missingthepoint pmichaud: http://github.com/bpetering/Text--CSV/blob/0002814e4b3899f915ff449f32766dbf5c2b8e50/parse_spectest_progress.pl
18:46 moritz_ missingthepoint: we should plug that into SVG::Plot somehow to generate the graphics in Perl 6
18:47 moritz_ which means I have to patch it to support multiple data sets ;-)
18:48 missingthepoint ;)
18:48 * PerlJam is sleepy today
18:49 moritz_ missingthepoint: each step closer to self-hosting is a success
18:49 missingthepoint moritz_: indeed.
18:50 missingthepoint dunno what you think of ray kurzweil, but i just watched a talk of his - "15 years and 31 days"
18:50 zloyrusskiy joined #perl6
18:50 * moritz_ doesn't know him at all
18:51 [particle] joined #perl6
18:51 missingthepoint "the singularity is near"... ?
18:51 masak and Perl 6 is the language which will get us there.
18:52 missingthepoint masak++, a man after my own heart :P
18:52 masak missingthepoint: do you happen to have a URL?
18:52 moritz_ missingthepoint++ # nice work with Text::CSV
18:52 masak waitwait, there's a Text::CSV now? :)
18:53 moritz_ http://github.com/bpetering/Text--CSV
18:53 masak missingthepoint: we should probably merge our projects. :)
18:53 missingthepoint www.ted.com/index.php/talks/ray_kurzweil_on_how_technology_will_transform_us.html
18:53 masak thanks.
18:54 missingthepoint obvious parallels to perl 6. :)
18:55 masak ah. yes, I saw that talk not so long ago.
18:55 moritz_ missingthepoint: it would be nice if you placed the modules into a lib/ directory, which is quasi standard for perl modules
18:55 missingthepoint masak: key phrase for your blogging: "15 years and 31 days"
18:56 masak I think I missed when he said that, though.
18:56 missingthepoint moritz_: true... i intend a bit of work on T::CSV soon :)
18:57 missingthepoint masak: about sequencing HIV versus SARS
18:57 masak missingthepoint: oh, aha.
18:57 masak I recall.
18:57 rfordinal left #perl6
18:57 missingthepoint masak: you have an amazing memory. how long ago did you watch that? o
18:57 masak yes, there are obvious parallels to Perl 6 there, indeed.
18:57 missingthepoint ... _O
18:58 masak missingthepoint: perhaps two weeks ago.
18:58 missingthepoint _O
18:59 masak "dear diary. today we invented the continuation-based smiley on #perl6..."
18:59 payload joined #perl6
18:59 missingthepoint nono, you're making me laugh, and ppl are sleeping! :)
19:00 masak missingthepoint: now you've just made it a challenge instead. :P
19:00 * moritz_ still admires the VVLLSS LOLSPK
19:00 masak isn't that 'VWLLSS'?
19:00 masak and 'LLSPK'? :)
19:00 moritz_ you know that lolcats can't spell ;-)
19:00 masak oh, right.
19:00 masak LOLICANTSPEL
19:01 missingthepoint lolcats spell excellently in a non-standard english orthography.
19:02 masak I wish I could believe that.
19:02 moritz_ if you transform the coordinate system all lines are straight ;-)
19:02 missingthepoint moritz_: NOT YOU TOO!?!?!
19:02 masak there are many findings about Lolspeak that I've made reading the Lolcat Bible, that I haven't blogged about or otherwise shared.
19:03 masak one is that (surprise, surprise) the Lolcat Bible is not a quality work.
19:03 dalek rakudo: 9716d3f | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
19:03 dalek rakudo: spectest-progress.csv update: 431 files, 12371 passing, 0 failing
19:03 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9716d3f166f8be14eea0d7acb08b5a31014c1b42
19:03 masak and that's understating things a bit.
19:03 missingthepoint masak: i used to work in a christian bookstore. there's an "Aussie bible", with, well.... predictable content :D
19:04 masak oh my.
19:04 masak doesn't the original bible contain enough predictable content?
19:07 * missingthepoint breaks uncomfortable silence...
19:07 missingthepoint ... so you were making me laugh? :)
19:08 masak yeah, but I forgot how.
19:08 masak let's talk about our duplicated efforts instead.
19:08 missingthepoint done.
19:09 missingthepoint so i have some thoughts about Perl 6 csv parsing.
19:09 masak I'll have a look at your Text::CSV, and you can look at my CSV, and then we can merge them, preferably in your repository.
19:09 missingthepoint why mine?
19:09 missingthepoint yours is more "central"
19:09 masak I doubt that.
19:10 moritz_ on a surface of a sphere nothiing is more central ;-)
19:10 missingthepoint oi!
19:10 masak I did things in the wrong order, I implemented CSV first, and then started studying how CSV worked.
19:10 jnthn I've done that with Perl 6 occasionally.
19:11 jnthn ;-)
19:11 missingthepoint well, i went extra-dimensional: started porting Text::CSV, then learned how it worked, then learned enough perl6 to do so :S
19:11 masak missingthepoint: wow, you already have more code than I. :)
19:13 missingthepoint moritz_: "oi" is Australian for "hey you, stop that" :)
19:13 missingthepoint pronounced like "oy" in "oy vey"
19:14 * PerlJam likes the methaphors clothed_field and nude_field
19:14 PerlJam good names
19:14 moritz_ missingthepoint: telling me to stop shilling semi-scientific bullshit won't do you any good ;-)
19:14 masak for some reason, I associate 'oi' with the Internet Oracle. as in 'oi, Zadoc!'.
19:15 masak moritz_: keep on shilling semi-scientific bullshit!
19:15 PerlJam masak: you're more connected, thus seemingly more "central"
19:15 missingthepoint PerlJam: exactly.
19:16 masak PerlJam: how do you count conntections? module dependencies?
19:16 moritz_ PerlJam: proto makes everything a distance "1" from itself
19:16 missingthepoint so to prevent code duplication, (ie multiple Text::CSVs), i vote for masak's github.
19:16 PerlJam masak: *you* are more connected :)
19:17 masak missingthepoint: our codebases are already very different. I don't see how we can easily merge them.
19:17 hercynium joined #perl6
19:17 masak but I'm already willing to change the name of mine s/CSV/Text::CSV/, in order to... uh... increase confusion. never mind.
19:17 [particle] make the module name the same, and change the authority :)
19:18 masak NYI, but good idea.
19:18 moritz_ swap module name and authorities
19:18 [particle] that's the easiest merge, let CPAN fight it out :)
19:18 moritz_ use masak :auth<Text::CSV>;
19:18 masak :)
19:18 missingthepoint actually, i vote for getting rid of 'C' entirely.
19:18 masak ENOCPAN.
19:18 masak moritz_: :P
19:18 PerlJam missingthepoint: me too.
19:18 PerlJam missingthepoint: xSV ?
19:18 [particle] IP6AN
19:18 [particle] incomprehensible perl 6 archive network
19:19 missingthepoint PerlJam: too p5-internalsy
19:19 masak missingthepoint: Text::SV?
19:19 moritz_ text is certainly a scalar values, yes ;-)
19:20 missingthepoint masak: ok... still in Text::?
19:20 PerlJam heh
19:20 missingthepoint moritz_: my thoughts exactly :D
19:20 PerlJam context is king.  Only a minority of people are going to associated SV with perl 5
19:20 moritz_ PerlJam: I know
19:21 PerlJam (it just so happens that some of that minority is probably a majority of the active #perl6 crowd right now, but still  :)
19:21 masak remember, we want something that's just like CPAN, preferably _is_ CPAN, but it should also contain all manner of Parrot-based language modules, except CPAN only accepts Perl things, and it should be distributed like github, and it should have a cool name, except there's no consensus at all about the name. and someone needs to implement the thing, too.
19:21 missingthepoint but still, i concur
19:21 TimToady I think I may have discovered the coercion declaration syntax
19:21 masak oh?
19:21 TimToady my Foo() $x;  # short for my Foo(Any) $x;
19:21 TimToady std: my Int() $x;
19:21 p6eval std 28042: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Confused (two terms in a row?) at /tmp/qiwNlfCSqn line 1:␤------> [32mmy Int() [33m⏏[31m$x;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤       bracketed infix␤  infix stopper␤    standard stopper␤ statement modifier loop␤  terminator␤     trait␤FAILED 00:02 38m␤»
19:22 TimToady currently illegal
19:22 masak STD says no.
19:22 jnthn TimToady: That means it coerces on each assignment?
19:22 TimToady I haven't taught it yet :)
19:22 moritz_ TimToady: should that be the same as 'my $x as Foo'?
19:22 TimToady my Foo() @foo = "x" xx *
19:23 TimToady don't think so, if as is returning an rvalue
19:23 TimToady anyway, it looks like in declarative context we have () available after typenames
19:23 jnthn my Foo() @foo = "x" xx *; # what does that boil down to?
19:24 TimToady my Foo @foo = map { Foo($_) }, "x" xx 8;
19:24 PerlJam Hmm.  Why not?  we already have [] and {} after typenames
19:24 TimToady and Foo($x) as rvalue is a coercion
19:24 jnthn TimToady: Hmm? I meant more, my Foo @foo creates an Array[Foo]
19:24 TimToady it's still an array of Foo
19:25 TimToady I think
19:25 TimToady storage-wise
19:25 jnthn That's awkward.
19:25 TimToady but it's an array of Foo() that knows it accepts Any
19:25 PerlJam and if I think of coercion as a transformation function, the my Foo() $x; makes good mnemonic sense too
19:26 TimToady so my Foo() @x; @x[42] = $nonfoo; should still try to do Foo($nonfoo) coercion
19:26 TimToady it's advertised as Any in the sig
19:26 moritz_ as Any(Foo)? ;-)
19:26 jnthn TimToady: What do we parameterize a role with?
19:26 PerlJam TimToady: but what else goes in the ()?   would we have things like  my Foo(Array of Int) @foo;  ?
19:27 jnthn In order to ask fro this?
19:27 jnthn TimToady: I can imagine this may work:
19:27 TimToady any type you want to advertise it as accepting goes inside
19:27 [particle] my SomeClass() $obj = $some_sig;  # would this run .new or .BUILDALL or just fail to coerce?
19:27 TimToady but default is Any
19:27 PerlJam okay
19:28 synth^2 joined #perl6
19:28 PerlJam and multiple coercions?
19:28 TimToady it would depend on whether anyone defined coercion to SomeClass
19:28 jnthn my Foo() @x; # really means: subset TEMP of Any where -> $x is rw { $x = Foo($x) }; Array[TEMP]
19:28 TimToady it still depends on SomeClass dispatching to &.()
19:28 jnthn However, if youdo that
19:28 synth^3 joined #perl6
19:29 jnthn Then you can't use multiple dispatch to distinguish @x and @y in my Foo() @x and my Bar() @x.
19:29 jnthn That may be surprising.
19:29 TimToady I don't see the problem offhand
19:30 TimToady what you just said doesn't make sense to me
19:30 jnthn ...
19:30 moritz_ well, we want Turing complete multi dispatch at one point
19:30 jnthn You didn't actually answer my original question.
19:30 moritz_ so we should be able to dispatch on everything ;-)
19:30 PerlJam moritz_: aren't we already there?
19:30 PerlJam ;)
19:30 jnthn Which was
19:30 moritz_ PerlJam: only with where-blocks (which are kinda cheating)
19:30 jnthn my Foo @x # it's an Array[Foo]
19:30 jnthn my Foo() @x # it's an Array[???] # what goes in the ???
19:31 jnthn It's kinda unimplementable without answering that.
19:31 pyrimidine joined #perl6
19:32 PerlJam It's still Array[Foo], but assignments get passed through Foo($thingy) to coerce as I read things
19:32 TimToady well, but the generic code probably needs to know both types
19:32 TimToady the internal and the external
19:33 jnthn PerlJam: What tells assignment that?
19:33 TimToady so perhaps Array[Foo(Any)] can be made to work
19:33 jnthn Hmm.
19:33 tak11 joined #perl6
19:33 jnthn That could work somehow.
19:33 TimToady but we have to be careful about maing Type(Type) work even in rvalue context, in that case
19:33 jnthn I think.
19:33 TimToady *making
19:34 jnthn Yeah
19:34 jnthn It's one of those "ouch, the type system was already complex enough" things.
19:35 TimToady yes, well, the question is whether coercion is entirely operational or wants to be more declarative in spots
19:35 jnthn I guess really though
19:35 TimToady and we're typically biasing things a bit toward the declarative in p6
19:35 PerlJam I don't think I've every thought of coercion as declarational.
19:35 PerlJam s/y//
19:35 jnthn If you have a ::T that you set as a "coercion type", and you use it in a signature, we could somehow try to be smart enough about it to make it as if you'd written an Any $x as Foo
19:36 jnthn But if we're doing that
19:36 jnthn We maybe want to toss as
19:36 jnthn And just write Any(Foo) $x
19:36 jnthn oh wait
19:36 jnthn Foo(Any) $x
19:36 PerlJam So ... what problem does this solve?
19:36 TimToady yes, I'm looking for something that generalizes better than as
19:37 TimToady it can be treated as a single type until you want to differentiate the inside and the outside
19:37 jnthn PerlJam: The problem is that we need to make specification of a coercion kind of "first class".
19:37 jnthn Or a single type that you can talk about.
19:37 PerlJam jnthn: why?
19:37 jnthn Because otherwise we can't actually implement my Foo() @x
19:37 jnthn Or at least
19:37 jnthn Not by just having it fall out of a parametric role.
19:38 jnthn Which it really needs to.
19:38 jnthn That is, we want to be able to write a role Array[::T] and not have to worry about whether T jsut implies a constraint or a constraint plus a coercion.
19:39 jnthn My feeling is that Foo(Any) will be a kind of type constructor.
19:39 jnthn And when building a signature out of it we'd probably deconstruct it somewhat.
19:39 jnthn And it has an ACCEPTS that coerces.
19:40 jnthn TimToady: We might be able to sneak this in with a bit less pain that I first thought...
19:40 TimToady almost more of a storage issue, so the "int" type is more like int(Int)
19:40 synth^3 joined #perl6
19:40 TimToady I'm officially Int, but whenever you store me, turn me into an int
19:41 TimToady so possibly related to boxing/unboxing
19:41 jnthn Hmm.
19:41 TimToady though it's funny that "unboxing" is associated with the tighter constraint
19:42 jnthn That's interesting too.
19:42 TimToady arguably int is a smaller box than Int :)
19:42 jnthn Yeah
19:42 PerlJam I haven't used C++ in a good while, but I remember there was something like, if you defined a constructor for your object that took a type X, then anywhere you specified a variable to be a type of your class, you could use type X and it would just magically work.  I remember this magic being ultimately evil.  This "coercion type" feels similar to me right now.
19:43 moritz_ implicit usage of such coercions would be evil, yes
19:43 jnthn Which is what my Foo() $x is kinda asking for. ;-)
19:43 PerlJam exactly.
19:44 PerlJam I guess perl has much been scoping control though, so that may mitigate any problems.
19:44 TimToady and we have a community to point out the evil of one's ways
19:45 PerlJam i.e.  with "my Foo() $x", the coercion is scoped the same as $x, right?
19:45 jnthn "That's SO evil! I like it!!"
19:45 PerlJam jnthn: heh
19:45 jnthn PerlJam: Correct
19:45 jnthn PerlJam: Which makes it feel a bit less awful.
19:45 moritz_ PerlJam: it's only only scoped like $x, it's also tied to the variable $x
19:45 jnthn Aye
19:45 PerlJam moritz_: right, good poitn
19:45 PerlJam er, point
19:45 jnthn It's very much like dialects.
19:46 jnthn There's always a use statement to tell you what language you're in.
19:46 TimToady anyway, my point was primarily about the syntax, not the pragmatics :)
19:47 PerlJam TimToady: well, I was getting to that  :)  parens seem a small indicator of such magic
19:47 PerlJam (perhaps I'm just too curmudgeonly today)
19:48 TimToady twice as big as it was gonna be in my earlier syntax :)
19:48 TimToady which was something like
19:48 TimToady my >Foo $x
19:48 TimToady or
19:48 TimToady my Any>Foo $x
19:49 moritz_ granted, Foo() is bettter.
19:54 TimToady multi infix:<+> (Num() $x, Num() $y) { #`<primitive addition here> }  # the old Any,Any version
19:54 moritz_ does it still lift()?
19:54 moritz_ or did it never?
19:55 TimToady no redispatch in this form
19:55 jnthn TimToady: Ah, it coerces while binding?
19:56 TimToady without coercion, Any/Any redispatches to Num/Num, but this is conceptually simpler
19:56 jnthn TimToady: Any reason not to have it, if it's primitive, as
19:56 TimToady yes, that's the idea
19:56 jnthn :(num() $x, num() $y)
19:56 jnthn I guess it's impl. dependent...
19:56 TimToady well, if you want to coerce to the native type, sure
19:56 moritz_ what about Inf?
19:56 jnthn I'd figure you may for a primitive.
19:57 moritz_ 'Inf' + 3
19:57 jnthn moritz_: num can represent inf
19:57 moritz_ jnthn: ok
19:57 jnthn *infinity
19:57 TimToady presumably a coercion failure would result in binding failure though, and dispatch elsewhere more general
19:57 moritz_ sounds sane.
19:57 TimToady maybe
19:58 moritz_ (this part, at least :)
19:58 TimToady something to think on for a while, anyway
19:58 jnthn note to self: doing ^C while viewing a git diff has a high chance of screwing up the terminal
19:58 TimToady let people's subconsciouses stew for a while to see what bubbles up
20:00 PerlJam Is the dispatch order of Num vs. Num() such that Num comes first in  the candidate list?
20:00 moritz_ PerlJam: since Num() would be like Any, Num is more specific
20:01 TimToady well, my brane needs to go inoperative for a bit, in an old geezery kind of way. &  # zzz
20:01 PerlJam moritz_: that's what I would think.  Just checking.  :)
20:02 jnthn Num would be narrower than Num(), yes
20:02 PerlJam X(Y) is treated like Y
20:02 jnthn Right.
20:02 jnthn The multi-dispatcher will probably be ignorant of the existence of the X
20:02 jnthn If we can get away with that anyway...
20:03 moritz_ at least for building the candidate list
20:03 moritz_ it will be aware of it during the bindability check
20:03 jnthn At least.
20:03 jnthn Oh, hmm
20:03 jnthn We need to be careful there...
20:04 jnthn If you make your infix:<+> need a bindability check, it means we can't do type based caching, which means slowness
20:04 jnthn Oh
20:04 jnthn Maybe we could in that we know which types can coerce
20:04 jnthn But that still may be too much of an assumption.
20:04 moritz_ and it would make user defined types slower
20:06 jnthn Wow, my throat is bad enough today that I can actually sing like the Opeth guy...
20:06 pmichaud while on this topic...
20:06 jnthn ...Opeth?
20:06 jnthn ...my throat?
20:06 pmichaud it seems a bit bizarre that   Foo($x)   defaults to  Foo.new($x), given that the default .new doesn't know how to handle a single positional (iiuc)
20:07 jnthn heh, I didn't know it did..
20:07 jnthn I thought it did $x.Foo
20:07 moritz_ that's what I thought too
20:07 pmichaud this came up in discussions yesterday
20:07 pmichaud looking for the reference(s)
20:08 pmichaud S13:204
20:08 pmichaud As a fallback, if no
20:08 pmichaud method responds to a coercion request, the class will be asked to attempt to
20:08 pmichaud do C<Dog.new($spot)> instead.
20:08 jnthn spec fail.
20:08 moritz_ aye.
20:09 pmichaud I also was wondering if the default 'new' method is a multi
20:09 jnthn pmichaud: Not afaik.
20:09 jnthn Though that's only an issue if you monkey-patch Object, no?
20:09 pmichaud for example, in the thread "Custom object constructors" on p6l, ruoso++ suggests
20:09 pmichaud method new(Str $timestamp) { self.SUPER::new(ts => strptime('...',$timestamp));
20:09 pmichaud }
20:10 pmichaud and I was wondering if that's in fact more like
20:10 pmichaud multi method new(Str $timestamp) { nextwith(ts => strptime('...', $timestamp)); }
20:10 pmichaud or, if .new is multi
20:11 jnthn Why isn't it method new(Str $timestamp) { nextwith(ts => strptime('...', $timestamp)); }
20:11 jnthn ?
20:11 pmichaud multi method new(Str $timestamp) { .new(ts => strptime('...', $timestamp)); }
20:11 jnthn But yes, nextwith is the nice thing to use here.
20:11 jnthn YOu don't have to be a multi to defer though.
20:11 jnthn Deferal goes through multis and then up the inheritance hierarchy.
20:11 pmichaud right
20:11 jnthn So no need for it to be a multi for this to work.
20:11 pmichaud but with multi, one doesn't have to use nextwith at all
20:11 masak why is nextwith better than naming the method?
20:11 jnthn The default constructor is not generated though, afaiu?
20:12 pmichaud one can just redelegate to .new
20:12 jnthn It's inherited?
20:12 jnthn True
20:12 pmichaud the original question was how to make something like   Foo.new($x)   dwim
20:12 moritz_ masak: it's not the same
20:12 jnthn That's more about people declaring their own .new a multi though, so dispatch can skip over it and keep looking?
20:13 masak and when you guys say .new, you do mean self.new, right? </nitpicky>
20:13 jnthn masak: yes
20:13 pmichaud masak: yes -- sorry about that
20:13 masak oh, good.
20:13 jnthn Just being lazy fingered. ;-0
20:13 moritz_ $.new for short ;-)
20:13 masak don't want to have that bikeshed discussion again. :)
20:13 masak (it was in 2006)
20:13 PerlJam masak: wait ... $_ should be aliased to the invocant in methods ...  ;)
20:13 jnthn I might just post the three word message "SHUT UP ALREDY" if that one happens again...
20:14 masak PerlJam: argh!
20:14 jnthn That way people will discuss my attitude problem instead of having the discussion again. ;-)
20:14 mkelly32 heh, you're on lists that got that guy, too?
20:15 pmichaud <bikeshed>I don't think it's an attitude problem, it's more like a character flaw</bikeshed>  :-) :-)
20:15 jnthn pmichaud: I'm not quite sure how it'd dwim with positionals.
20:15 jnthn Thanks pm. :-P
20:15 pmichaud jnthn: I'm not talking at all about auto-creating new in any form, if that's what you're thinking.
20:16 jnthn pmichaud: OK, good, I just hadn't yet worked out why you wanted to write a multi new.
20:16 pmichaud given that I'm creating a class Foo, and I want to be able to define a .new for Foo that works based on positional arguments, what's the canonical way to do that?
20:16 jnthn I see it now (because it's a trick to dispatch up the tree).
20:16 masak Rakudo works again! bacek++, I guess.
20:16 jnthn It's Perl, there's many ways to do it...
20:17 pmichaud jnthn: sure, but the versions given in the thread all looked somewhat bletcherous -- they were basically overriding BUILD and new both (and claiming that both had to be done)
20:17 jnthn I guess if you're subclassing, you care a bit about the constructors of the parent.
20:17 jnthn I don't get why both have to be done.
20:17 pmichaud I don't think they do
20:17 jnthn If you take positionals, then you just map them to names when calling .bless
20:17 pmichaud so your code looks like... ?
20:18 jnthn method new($foo, $bar) { self.bless(*, :$foo, :$bar) }
20:18 jnthn well, and a return in there if you want to be explicit.
20:18 * PerlJam hadforgotten about the :$foo shortcut
20:18 PerlJam perl++
20:18 jnthn The other nice thing about naming your parameters in the signature
20:18 jnthn As in, giving them the names of the attributes
20:19 jnthn Is that as well as calling that $x.new(4, 2)
20:19 jnthn you can also call it $x.new(foo => 4, bar => 2)
20:19 jnthn ;-)
20:19 jnthn (Well, not in Rakudo yet.)
20:20 pmichaud what happens if Foo itself is subclassed, though?
20:20 pmichaud it still works out?
20:20 jnthn It'd inherit that constructor.
20:20 jnthn The subclass would need to define a constructor that it liked more.
20:21 jnthn Or Foo could declare it's candidate a multi so failure to bind there isn't fatal.
20:21 pmichaud right, which gets back to my "is <new> a multi" question
20:21 jnthn Depends on the semantics a class prefers to have.
20:21 jnthn If it wants to say "thou shalt construct me this way and only this way", then only.
20:22 jnthn If it wants to say "here's another way", then multi.
20:22 pmichaud I meant the default <new>
20:22 jnthn The default new is in Object.
20:22 pmichaud correct
20:22 pmichaud is it a multi, or no?  or does it not matter?
20:22 jnthn It doesn't matter.
20:22 jnthn There's nowhere to look beyond it.
20:22 pmichaud so if I have class Foo defined with
20:22 pmichaud multi method new($foo) { self.bless(*, :$foo); }
20:22 jnthn multi method dispatch in Perl 6 does not consider all multis from all classes together.
20:23 jnthn It's a class by class consideration.
20:23 jnthn Up the inheritance hierarchy.
20:23 pmichaud I can still do    Foo.new()     and have it get to Object's .new ?
20:23 jnthn Correct.
20:23 pmichaud even if Object.new isn't defined as multi ?
20:23 jnthn If a class provides no viable multi candidates, we continue looking up.
20:23 jnthn Correct.
20:24 pmichaud okay.
20:24 jnthn We consider the options provided by each class in isolation.
20:24 jnthn Failing to bind to an only is always an error.
20:24 jnthn But failing to bind to any of the available multis just means we consider the parents.
20:24 pmichaud got it.
20:24 PerlJam but, if Foo.new($x) is to do something useful as per S13, then Object's new will have to be multi  :)
20:25 jnthn PerlJam: Heh, true.
20:25 jnthn I'm a little distrubed about that though.
20:25 pmichaud Yes, that issue still exists independent on this one.
20:25 moritz_ isn't it multi anyway?
20:25 pmichaud I'd like to see the   self.bless(*, ...)  answer added to the thread on p6l, though.
20:25 jnthn I can't think of a good default.
20:25 moritz_ pmichaud: I just mentioned it
20:25 pmichaud okay, good.
20:26 jnthn oh arse...so much for my patch being good.
20:26 * jnthn failed a sanity test
20:26 pmichaud moritz++
20:27 jnthn pmichaud: *almost* got trait application on containers into shape.
20:27 pmichaud jnthn: nice!
20:27 jnthn pmichaud: trait_mod:<of> is now written entirely in Perl 6. ;-)
20:27 reqamst someone vandalised pugs article on wikipedia, I fixed it :(
20:27 pmichaud that's simultaneously scary and cool.
20:28 moritz_ reqamst++
20:31 jnthn pmichaud: Yeah, though annoyingly I've managed to cause some weird breakage...hopefully nothing too hard to track down.
20:31 jnthn Doesn't help that the PIR line number seems to be kinda off...
20:32 Tene jnthn: that's been the case for ages.  I vaguely remember suspecting that imcc isn't counting annotations when counting lines.
20:32 Tene But I don't know that I ever confirmed it.
20:36 japhb joined #perl6
20:49 Caelum joined #perl6
21:01 tak11 joined #perl6
21:18 tak__ joined #perl6
21:19 alester joined #perl6
21:22 KatrinaTheLamia hmm... I may look into signing up for git hub... though, do I need to be a completely a total git to use it? Or is it something I can work on? Like I mean I am a little daft--does that help?
21:23 KyleHa1 The name 'git' refers to its creator, not the users.  Sorry.
21:23 moritz_ it generally doesn't help to be daft when dealing with technology ;-)
21:23 KyleHa1 deft, another story.
21:24 KatrinaTheLamia yeah, I recall the quote Linus made about him naming all his projects after himself... I chuckled
21:24 pyrimidine git?
21:24 KatrinaTheLamia moritz_, I dunno, with windows, php and so many other things being so popular with technology, I wouldn't think it would hurt ~.^
21:25 moritz_ KatrinaTheLamia: well, maybe I'm wrong.
21:25 KatrinaTheLamia pyrimidine, git is a slang term for somebody who is useless... or something similar to that. Generally if you call somebody a "git" it generally is not complement.
21:25 pyrimidine yes, I know (mum's english)
21:26 KatrinaTheLamia hooray!
21:26 masak KatrinaTheLamia: if it's a nudge you need to sign up with github: do it! you won't regret it.
21:26 masak github is better than Facebook and Twitter combined.
21:26 masak friending is called 'forking' on github.
21:26 KatrinaTheLamia masak, alright--I was going to in a bit... I figured I'd make a joke...
21:26 KatrinaTheLamia and oh dear... I am not entire sure I want to be on github now ~.^
21:26 masak KatrinaTheLamia: I'm glad you did.
21:27 masak KatrinaTheLamia: because of the 'forking' part? it doesn't hurt or anything.
21:27 pyrimidine just so everyone knows: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/e/1394
21:27 * masak wonders if he's too risqué
21:27 pyrimidine allison pointed this out the other day
21:27 KatrinaTheLamia I mean facebook? I generally regard that site as lower than the various chans when it comes to intelligent discussion on the interweb
21:28 masak KatrinaTheLamia: http://tomayko.com/writings/github-is-myspace-for-hackers
21:28 pyrimidine (that's the link to the 'Git in an Hour' webcast)
21:28 masak KatrinaTheLamia: oh, me too. I don't go near it with a wet towel.
21:28 KatrinaTheLamia oh dear... comparing it to myspace now... makes me not even want to go there more
21:28 masak KatrinaTheLamia: but... what that URL says.
21:29 masak KatrinaTheLamia: I'm afraid you misunderestimate. :)
21:29 KatrinaTheLamia masak, well, you should generally be going everywhere with your towel ~.^
21:29 * KatrinaTheLamia stops complaining and learns to click the links.
21:29 masak github is great at letting you click links.
21:30 zamolxes joined #perl6
21:30 pyrimidine the git webcast I linked to above was a very good introduction
21:31 pyrimidine also: http://progit.org/book/
21:34 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
21:42 jnthn pmichaud: Have happiness, the bacekator has fixed the regression, apparently...
21:42 * masak is teh happy about that
21:43 jnthn I on the other hand have managed to write a patch that skillfully passes everything we passed before...apart from 1 test in assign.t. Gah.
21:43 moritz_ jnthn: review the test for correctness before worrying about it
21:43 jnthn rakudo: my $x //= 42; say $x;
21:43 moritz_ jnthn: assign.t is full of only half-correct tests, I fear
21:43 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
21:44 Whiteknight joined #perl6
21:45 masak oh, I remember that one.
21:45 jnthn oh wtf
21:45 pyrimidine rakudo: my $x \\= 42; say $x;
21:45 jnthn not ok 77 - //= also works in declaration
21:45 jnthn #      got: undef
21:45 jnthn # expected: 5
21:45 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "\\\\= 42; sa"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3390)␤»
21:45 jnthn OK, how on *earth* was this test passing at all before?
21:45 masak jnthn: :D
21:46 synth joined #perl6
21:47 moritz_ lol
21:47 masak or, as the Brits say, loul.
21:48 * jnthn switches back to master to see if it works there.
21:50 masak oh, and by the way, missingthepoint and I had a long privmsg discussion, in which we totally connected and decided to mind-meld our two Text::CSV modules in a few days' time.
21:50 masak synergy++
21:50 jnthn rakudo: use Test; my $f //= 5; is $f, 5, '//= also works in declaration';
21:50 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0:  ( no output )
21:51 jnthn oh wtf
21:51 jnthn rakudo: my $f //= 5; say $f eq 5
21:51 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤0␤»
21:51 masak the evalbot borders on being useless when it doesn't output stuff.
21:52 jnthn OK, color me confused.
21:52 jnthn The test does pretty much that.
21:52 jnthn And...passes.
21:52 jnthn epic wtf.
21:52 wayland76 masak: I was worried for a minute that the two of you were going to become a borg :)
21:53 masak wayland76: oh, we haven't ruled that out.
21:54 jnthn OK, so it really does work in the context of the test.
21:54 jnthn :'-(
21:54 masak jnthn: that's an amazing discovery!
21:55 jnthn But only in master
21:55 jnthn Not in my branch.
21:55 jnthn I wonder if I'm allowed to call that out as a bogus pass.
21:55 jnthn Given
21:55 jnthn That it clearly doesn't really work... :-|
21:55 jnthn rakudo: my $x //= 5; say $x;
21:55 jnthn rakudo: { my $x //= 5; say $x; }
21:55 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
21:55 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«5␤»
21:55 jnthn ...erm...
21:55 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = <a b c>; for ^10 { print @a[$_ % *] }
21:56 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«abcabcabca»
21:56 moritz_ rakudo++
21:56 masak wow.
21:56 masak that is beautiful.
21:56 moritz_ it is.
21:56 jnthn wow...in theory I knew that works, but I'd never thought to try it :-)
21:56 jnthn moritz++
21:56 jnthn That is, I can see exactly why it would work.
21:57 jnthn But yeah, very neat idea. :-)
21:57 moritz_ it's amazing what you can do with whatever-stars
21:57 jnthn I'm not entirely sure I want to know why //= only works in a block...
21:57 jnthn ...and why my changes made it just consistently not work.
21:59 masak that's the big mystery, it seems.
22:00 * moritz_ just hacked multiple bars into SVG::Plot
22:00 masak moritz_++
22:01 moritz_ next step: stacked bars
22:01 moritz_ then we have all we need to re-generate the spectest charts with Perl 6.
22:01 masak \o/
22:02 missingthepoint pmichaud: ^^
22:02 moritz_ well, let's wait until it's actually done ;-)
22:03 missingthepoint moritz_: ah, i just provided extra motivation... ;)
22:04 jnthn moritz_: Will they be prettier too? ;-)
22:05 * missingthepoint off to do Text::CSV .t work.
22:05 jnthn moritz_: And maybe we can incorporate a picture of a pony? ;-)
22:05 moritz_ jnthn: I hope so.
22:05 MoC` joined #perl6
22:05 moritz_ a pony and a butterfly.
22:05 wayland76 What does that % operator do up above in moritz_'s rakudo code?
22:06 moritz_ wayland76: modulo
22:06 masak wayland76: it gives you the remainder of an integer division.
22:07 masak that's the fifth arithmetic operation, one that they sadly tend to under-emphasize in the basic math curriculum.
22:07 wayland76 That's what I thought.  I still don't understand the code.  Is it some sort of iterator thingy?
22:07 masak wayland76: no, but I had to look at it for a while too to grok it.
22:07 masak wayland76: the secret is that * means .elems in array indices.
22:08 moritz_ wayland76: replay * by the number of items in the array
22:08 moritz_ so it's just <a b c>[ $_ % 3 ]
22:08 wayland76 Ah, I see the magic :)
22:08 moritz_ but written for an arbitrary number of items
22:08 wayland76 thanks :)
22:08 moritz_ yw
22:10 wayland76 rakudo: my @a = <a b c>; print @a[map { $_ % @a } 1..10]
22:10 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "[map { $_ "␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3390)␤»
22:10 wayland76 rakudo: my @a = <a b c>; print @a[map { $_ % @a } 1..10];
22:10 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "[map { $_ "␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3390)␤»
22:10 moritz_ wayland76: comma after }
22:10 wayland76 rakudo: my @a = <a b c>; print @a[map { $_ % @a }, 1..10];
22:11 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«bcabcabcab»
22:11 jnthn Anyone else finding rakudo.org a little bit failed at the moment?
22:11 wayland76 rakudo: my @a = <a b c>; print @a[map { $_ % @a }, 0..9];
22:11 moritz_ well, ^10 is is 0..9
22:11 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«abcabcabca»
22:11 moritz_ jnthn: why?
22:11 jnthn moritz_: When I try to load it I get a blank page... :-/
22:12 moritz_ works fine here.
22:12 jnthn huh
22:12 jnthn :-/
22:13 moritz_ oh dammit, I shouldn't try to be too clever.
22:15 jnthn loliblogged: http://use.perl.org/~JonathanWorthington/journal/39499
22:19 moritz_ lolib0rkedmysvgplot
22:21 masak jnthn++ # nice, meaty post
22:21 jnthn moritz_: That sounds oddly unlolish.
22:21 jnthn .oO( post not suitable for vegitarians? )
22:21 masak jnthn: uhm, quorn-y post?
22:22 jnthn eww
22:22 masak tofu-y post?
22:22 masak doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
22:22 jnthn "I will now proceed to eat a tofu."
22:22 masak I'm sure the vegetarians will understand.
22:22 payload joined #perl6
22:25 jnthn (tofu quote from http://www.weebls-stuff.com/wab/hams/ - warning, awful pun at the end)
22:25 masak jnthn: I couldn't help but note that your PublicReportRenderer doesn't explicitly inherit from your ReportRenderer...
22:25 jnthn masak: oh, fail
22:26 jnthn masak: corrected, thanks like
22:26 masak np.
22:26 masak so, wow, nextsame et al. actually does both inheritance-hierarchy and multimethod deferral?
22:27 jnthn Correct.
22:27 masak which one does it do when faced with a choice of both?
22:27 jnthn always multi-methods, and if the last applicable one of those defers too then it goes up the inheritance chain.
22:28 masak ok.
22:28 jnthn masak: Imagine making a list of every multi-variant in every class in the hierarchy that you could call.
22:28 wayland76 masak: You left my character classes out of your blog post
22:28 jnthn That's what it's walking through.
22:28 masak wayland76: oh noes! which post, and which character classes?
22:29 wayland76 The one about Eve Online (Aug 11)
22:30 wayland76 On the other hand, we don't need newbies volunteering to be spec re-drafters :)
22:30 masak wayland76: I think you might fall under 'priest', actually. but consider my classes an open set.
22:31 wayland76 Yeah, I figured I was closest to "priest", with attempts at healing also involved
22:32 masak we're all mixes, I think.
22:32 masak real-world RPGs tend not to be so clear-cut.
22:33 * jnthn figures he's probably something of a Mage.
22:33 * moritz_ has the branedumb
22:33 moritz_ I have an array @a which contains arrays of numbers (of same lenght)
22:33 moritz_ and I want to calculate the maximal row sum
22:33 wayland76 masak: I've played shadowrun, which lets you cut across categories :)
22:33 moritz_ hwo do I do that?
22:34 masak rakudo: @a = [1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]; say [max] @a>>.sum
22:34 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Symbol '@a' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/25HpXCMmZ2:2)␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3390)␤»
22:34 masak rakudo: my @a = [1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]; say [max] @a>>.sum
22:34 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Method 'sum' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6Array'␤»
22:34 masak O RLY?
22:34 wayland76 max(for @a -> @b { [+] @b })
22:35 wayland76 rakudo: @a = [1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]; say max(for @a -> @b { [+] @b });
22:35 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "(for @a ->"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3390)␤»
22:35 moritz_ I'd want to get 3 + 6 + 9 = 18 in masak's example
22:35 masak rakudo: sub sum(@a) { [+] @a }; my @a = [1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]; say [max] map { sum($_) },  @a
22:35 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«24␤»
22:35 masak moritz_: oh.
22:35 masak moritz_: is that what you call 'rows'? :)
22:35 moritz_ maybe I formulated it a bit weirdly
22:35 masak aye.
22:35 moritz_ masak: for some values of transposition :/
22:36 jnthn rakudo: my @a = [1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]; say [+] @a.map( .max }
22:36 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "( .max }"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3390)␤»
22:36 jnthn rakudo: my @a = [1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]; say [+] @a.map({ .max })
22:36 jnthn gah
22:36 jnthn :-)
22:36 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«18␤»
22:36 jnthn rakudo: my @a = [1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]; say [+] @a.map: *.max
22:36 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«18␤»
22:37 jnthn Less brackety.
22:37 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = [3, 2, 1], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8, 9]; say [+] @a.map: *.max
22:37 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«18␤»
22:37 moritz_ not quite what I want
22:37 masak thought so.
22:37 moritz_ should be 16 in that case
22:37 jnthn rakudo: my @a = [1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]; say [+] @a.map: *.end
22:37 masak jnthn: the sum of the column with the largest sum.
22:37 jnthn oh no
22:37 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«6␤»
22:38 jnthn Oh!
22:38 jnthn wait, no...really?
22:38 moritz_ rakudo: @a = [1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]; say ([Z] @a).perl
22:38 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "@a).perl"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3390)␤»
22:38 jnthn Oh, columm as in...1 + 4 + 7
22:38 jnthn OK
22:38 * wayland76 wonders if we can make people saints (in protestantism, every Christian is a saint), and whether he can be a presbyter or not :)
22:40 masak rakudo: sub col-sum(@a, $col) { [+] map { $_[$col] }, @a }; my @a = [3, 2, 1], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8, 9]; my $max-col = sort { col-sum(@a, $_ }, ^@a[0]; say $max-col; say col-sum(@a, $max-col)
22:40 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near "(@a, $_ },"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3390)␤»
22:40 masak rakudo: sub col-sum(@a, $col) { [+] map { $_[$col] }, @a }; my @a = [3, 2, 1], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8, 9]; my $max-col = sort { col-sum(@a, $_) }, ^@a[0]; say $max-col; say col-sum(@a, $max-col)
22:40 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«0 1 2␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤0␤»
22:40 masak hrm.
22:41 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = [3, 2, 1], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8, 9]: say [max] @a.keys.map: { [+] @.values[*][$_] }
22:41 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Statement not terminated properly at line 2, near ": say [max"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3390)␤»
22:41 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = [3, 2, 1], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8, 9]; say [max] @a.keys.map: { [+] @.values[*][$_] }
22:41 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Lexical 'self' not found␤»
22:41 masak rakudo: sub col-sum(@a, $col) { [+] map { $_[$col] }, @a }; my @a = [3, 2, 1], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8, 9]; my $max-col = (sort { col-sum(@a, $_) }, 0..@a[0].elems)[0]; say $max-col; say col-sum(@a, $max-col)
22:41 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤3␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤Use of uninitialized value␤0␤»
22:41 masak back to the drawing board.
22:42 moritz_ got it.
22:43 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = [3, 2, 1], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8, 9]; say [max] @a.values[0].keys.map: { [+] @a.map: -> $a { $a[$_] } } };
22:43 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«Syntax error at line 2, near "};"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3390)␤»
22:43 wayland76 Just so I understand the problem, we add up each "column", then pick the largest?
22:43 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = [3, 2, 1], [4, 5, 6], [7, 8, 9]; say [max] @a.values[0].keys.map: { [+] @a.map: -> $a { $a[$_] } };
22:43 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«16␤»
22:43 moritz_ wayland76: correct.
22:44 masak rakudo: sub col-sum(@a, $col) { [+] map { .[$col] }, @a }; my @a = [3,2,1], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]; say [max] map { col-sum(@a, $_) }, ^@a[0]
22:44 p6eval rakudo 0d4fe0: OUTPUT«16␤»
22:44 masak moritz_: yep, our solutions are equivalent.
22:45 moritz_ right; I just inline col-sum as another map
22:45 moritz_ which means I have stacked bar charts working.
22:45 masak yay!
22:46 masak I, on the other hand, completely ran into a wall with the CSV module.
22:46 moritz_ with yours? or with missingthepoint's?
22:46 masak with mine.
22:46 masak time to push what I have and sleep on it.
22:47 missingthepoint masak: i have further thoughts for you.
22:47 missingthepoint (whenever you want them)
22:47 masak missingthepoint: preferably tomorrow, if that's alright.
22:48 missingthepoint masak: no problem :)
22:48 masak missingthepoint: I just pushed the progress for the evening.
22:48 masak I got many of the early TODO points working.
22:49 * moritz_ has to fix lots of docs after his stacked bars
22:49 masak missingthepoint: I'm currently stuck on newlines inside of quotes, so I'm going to sleep on that.
22:49 moritz_ http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/out.svg
22:49 jonathanturner joined #perl6
22:49 moritz_ that's how the stacked bars can look like
22:50 missingthepoint masak: ok.
22:50 masak moritz_++
22:50 masak sleep &
22:50 jnthn night, mas...oh, to late.
22:50 jnthn moritz_: Ooh, nice.
22:56 reqamst moritz_: could you pull it to the github?
22:57 moritz_ reqamst: it's already on github (but it's not Tufte :/ )
22:57 moritz_ http://github.com/moritz/svg-plot/
22:57 moritz_ it's nice for now, but not very extensible.
22:58 reqamst oh, I was thinking it's Tufte
22:59 moritz_ that would be great, but it requires more initial work
23:03 jnthn moritz_: warn "stacked: $stacked"; # leftover debugging output?
23:03 moritz_ jnthn: yes
23:04 moritz_ jnthn: removed, thanks
23:08 sjohnson perl 6 is a big deal
23:09 jnthn orly? :-)
23:09 sjohnson =)
23:09 sjohnson i should subscribe to the rakudo blog
23:09 sjohnson but i am not quite sure what i can offer to the cause, though i would love to
23:11 sjohnson my main strength about Perl 6 development is getting excited and optimistic about it
23:11 moritz_ you can start writing stuff in perl 6 and blog about it
23:11 moritz_ that's basically what masak++ does ;-)
23:12 sjohnson definitely a good start
23:12 reqamst hmm.. I can run rakudo's perl6 only from that same directory where is perl6, otherwise I receive http://paste.lisp.org/display/85764
23:13 reqamst is it common?
23:13 moritz_ reqamst: you need to run 'make install', the installed version should run from everywhere
23:13 missingthepoint sjohnson: i have a few ideas about how you could help if you're interested... :)
23:13 sjohnson what did you have in mind?
23:15 missingthepoint sjohnson: well, you have web skills? i suspect rakudo.org could use some updating and TLC... (but you might need to run this by pmichaud or alester)
23:16 sjohnson wouldn't be a bad start
23:16 sjohnson i do have said skills
23:16 missingthepoint sjohnson: also, hanging around here and being friendly is always useful... you actually pick up a fair bit just idling, and you can pass that on to visitors :)
23:16 reqamst moritz_: I made
23:18 missingthepoint sjohnson: i have half a "Not-Implemented-Yet List" for Rakudo... I could use some help with that, and I think it could go on rakudo.org/status...
23:18 sjohnson missingthepoint: the occasional pat on the back to others and telling a silly joke go a long way too :]
23:18 alester sjohnson: We are glad to get any kind of help on rakudo.org
23:19 alester whether visually w/tmeplates, or with creating pages, or whatever.
23:19 reqamst moritz_: but now I think it's not related to rakudo
23:19 reqamst nvm
23:19 sjohnson missingthepoint: is it online?
23:19 sjohnson alester: i'll see what i can do
23:20 missingthepoint sjohnson: soon... :)
23:22 missingthepoint could some sort of admin privileges be organized for sjohnson on rakudo.org? :)
23:23 missingthepoint (better not hamstrung, methinks...)
23:25 sjohnson *puppy dog eyes*
23:25 alester i'm glad to hand out privs once there's some sort of idea of what you'll be doin'
23:27 alester Not that I don't trust what you'll be doin'.  Mostly the fewer privs that go out, the fewer privs I need to wrangle.
23:27 sjohnson do you need special privs to post on the main blog?
23:27 wayland76 sjohnson: Are you planning to mostly edit content?
23:27 wayland76 redesign css?
23:27 alester you need privs to do anything.
23:28 sjohnson ehh before I get too ahead of myself, i won't make any claims.  i have hardly enough time as it is, but i was thinking maybe posting some relevant paragraphs on the main site after giving rakudo a thorough testing
23:28 wayland76 (when I said "edit content", I mean "edit/write content"
23:28 alester Although excitement and optomistic is free. :-)
23:28 sjohnson by writing cute programs, like puzzle solvers, flashcard programs, etc
23:28 alester That's great. I"d love to see what you can come up with.
23:29 alester sjohnson: You know what else I need help with?
23:29 wayland76 Sounds like "content creation, etc"
23:29 missingthepoint sjohnson++, good ideas :)
23:29 sjohnson alester: what's that
23:29 alester http://perlbuzz.com/2009/08/help-perl101org-become-a-great-tool-for-perl-newcomers.html I really want to make perl101.org be dual-languaged.
23:29 wayland76 alester: post it in the channel; maybe someone will volunteer :)
23:29 alester For example, I put some Perl 6 here: http://perl101.org/arrays.html
23:30 wayland76 rakudo is in Drupal
23:30 wayland76 sorry, rakudo.org is
23:30 alester This will help newbies to both Perl 5 AND Perl 6 AND for people transitioning to Perl 6.
23:30 sjohnson i can speak french
23:31 sjohnson cute bees btw
23:31 sjohnson :)
23:33 missingthepoint sjohnson: can you write french?
23:34 sjohnson yes
23:34 missingthepoint sjohnson: excellent! why didn't you say so sooner? :)
23:35 sjohnson too obsessed with learning Japanese now :)
23:35 alester I don't believe it.  He should have said oui.
23:35 missingthepoint sjohnson: have you seen u4x? (http://svn.pugscode.org/docs/u4x/README)
23:35 sjohnson link won't work for me
23:35 sjohnson alester: ... oui bien sur
23:36 missingthepoint oh hm, oops, http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/docs/u4x/README
23:36 sjohnson if i didn't know "oui" for real, it would be a sad day in Perl history
23:36 simcop2387 joined #perl6
23:39 sjohnson someone will have to put me to the translator test
23:40 sjohnson and have faith that I won't use babelfish Google language tools
23:40 sjohnson ( `ー´)
23:40 alester We wouldn't really know if you did. :-)
23:41 alester Anyone who has not yet read the Zompist Phrasebook needs to right now.  http://www.zompist.com/phrases.html
23:41 missingthepoint I think there are a few people from .fr here... if you have tuits they might be able to do some quick checks...
23:41 * sjohnson places his hand on the Camel Book and recites the Perl oath
23:41 sjohnson heheh
23:41 synth^2 joined #perl6
23:42 wayland76 "I do solemnly swear to promote laziness, be impatient, and share the hubris at every opportunity" :)
23:42 sjohnson "The bellboy won't score me any coke. "
23:42 sjohnson i love how that's slipped in
23:42 alester oh, keep going
23:46 frew__ joined #perl6
23:47 sjohnson that was a good read
23:47 sjohnson i showed my brother
23:48 sjohnson he also enjoyed it :)
23:48 alester "I know I'm naked, can you please just tell me how to get back to the hotel" is the capper for m.e
23:48 wayland76 I love the translation of "Where is the Cathedral?" :)
23:48 alester I know many are not real.
23:48 alester What is it?
23:49 wayland76 "Où est le bordel ?"
23:49 alester hahah
23:49 alester ok going home
23:49 wayland76 (for backloggers who don't speak french, look up the English word "bordello")
23:50 sjohnson where's the brothel i think it translaets to
23:50 wayland76 sjohnson: Yes, I know.  I was giving people a chance to improve their English at the same time :)
23:51 sjohnson that's my wayland!
23:51 jnthn Gotta love the ones for "I understand your language perfectly."
23:51 sjohnson :)
23:52 nihiliad joined #perl6
23:52 sjohnson anyone around here around 27 years old?
23:52 sjohnson and played NES?
23:53 sjohnson hopefully this isn't too off-topic
23:58 sjohnson this perl101 site is great
23:58 sjohnson i'd love to contribute some tricks i've learned over the years to this site
23:59 jan_ joined #perl6

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo