Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-09-18

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:09 diakopter rakudo: say 1,,3
00:09 p6eval rakudo 2953ac:  ( no output )
00:09 diakopter rakudo: say 1,,3
00:09 p6eval rakudo 2953ac:  ( no output )
00:10 diakopter well, it worked when I /msg
00:10 TimToady std: say 1,,3
00:10 p6eval std 28279: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix , instead at /tmp/iwlzkE2jue line 1:␤------> [32msay 1,,[33m⏏[31m3[0m␤FAILED 00:03 38m␤»
00:10 diakopter rakudo 2953ac: OUTPUT«13␤»
00:10 TimToady I think STD is correct here :)
00:11 TimToady a nullterm is only allowed at the end of the list
00:11 TimToady otherwise the semantics are unclear--people will expect it to pass an undef or something
00:14 diakopter rakudo: say 1;3,
00:14 p6eval rakudo 2953ac: OUTPUT«No result object␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:2815)␤»
00:15 TimToady o_O
00:15 diakopter one'd think it'd say 1 at least
00:16 diakopter (if it got that far, I mean)
00:16 TimToady rakudo: 3,
00:16 p6eval rakudo 2953ac: OUTPUT«No result object␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:2815)␤»
00:16 TimToady rakudo: 3
00:16 p6eval rakudo 2953ac:  ( no output )
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00:38 dalek rakudo: a7ac444 | pmichaud++ | src/parser/grammar.pg:
00:38 dalek rakudo: Fix handling of twigil in param_var for anonymous invocant (RT #69206, masak++)
00:38 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a​7ac444d15e146952cc3b231b76316005b569f52
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01:25 dalek rakudo: a969c9e | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/setting/Any-num.pm:
02:07 dalek rakudo: Add Any versions of the inverse trig functions.
02:07 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a​969c9ed8aca9aee638286b407a31cbe327a4305
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02:07 JimmyZ moritz_:<pre>DBI connect('database=moritz5;ho​st=localhost','moritz',...) failed: Too many connections at lib/IrcLog.pm line 30
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02:07 Topic for #perl6is now »ö« | http://perl6.org/ | nopaste: http://paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo: / pugs: / std: | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
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06:15 saran Good morning friends
06:15 KatrinaTheLamia I plead the fifth!
06:15 TimToady that only works here
06:15 TimToady up
06:15 saran Tim : Great to see the announcement of Rakudo Perl 6 development release #21 ("Seattle"
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06:15 azawawi good morning
06:15 azawawi moritz_: ping
06:15 TimToady I am Toady, not Tim
06:15 TimToady I am merely a Toady of Tims
06:15 saran Toady : am in windows..when i try to clone using "git clone git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git" it says <snip> $ git clone git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git <br> fatal: destination path 'rakudo' already exists and is not an empty directory. <snip>
06:15 azawawi moritz_: Moose on feather fails. Could you please fix it? Please see http://gist.github.com/188860
06:15 azawawi moritz_: feather1 ofcourse...
06:15 TimToady saran: alas, I know next to nothing about git, and little about Windows either
06:15 wayland76 I on the other hand, am a Tim, and know nothing of any Toadys other than TimToady :)
06:15 saran Toady : Hw shld i get the latest release of seattle in my machine
06:15 TimToady azawawi: try again with Moose
06:15 azawawi TimToady: Yay! it works. Many thanks TimToady++
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06:15 * azawawi releases the next Syntax::Highlight::Perl6 ...
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06:15 TimToady saran: try going into rakudo dir and saying 'git pull'
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06:15 azawawi TimToady: building rakudo on win32 ?
06:15 TimToady so it would appear
06:15 saran TimToady : Thanks .. it works..any other svn steps to get the latest seattle in live
06:15 TimToady make realclean
06:15 TimToady perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot
06:15 TimToady should download the latest, I think
06:15 azawawi saran: http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Build​ingOnPortableStrawberry#ParrotandRakudo
06:15 azawawi saran: that's what use to build the latest. I will be releasing Seattle shortly as a zip file to work with almost-six msi distribution
06:15 saran azawawi : i have already installed strawberry and rakudo..am working to sync with the latest seattle release
06:15 azawawi saran: what version of strawberry?
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06:15 azawawi saran: if you follow these instructions, you'll get a fully working rakudo installation under c:\strawberry\six
06:15 saran azawawi : strawberry perl 5.10.0.6
06:15 azawawi saran: for a ready-made PDX over Padre distribution, you can follow also these instructions http://ahmadzawawi.blogspot.com/2009/0​9/upgrading-to-rakudo-perl-6-pdx.html
06:15 azawawi saran: that provides Perl 6 highlighting, STD error checking, and quick fixes for various STD warnings/errors...
06:15 azawawi saran: and you can run your Perl 6 script using rakudo through Padre IDE...
06:15 azawawi saran: almost six distro = strawberry + Padre + Padre::Plugin::Perl6 + rakudo
06:15 saran azawawi : back after 2 mins
06:15 pugs_svn r28280 | lwall++ | [multi.t] does isn't associative
06:15 s1n way off topic: anyone in here obtain a phd?
06:15 s1n (aside from pmichaud)
06:15 saran azawawi : pls look at my blog http://twitter.com/perlsaran and am not sure what i am missing
06:15 * azawawi takes a look
06:15 saran This is what the link followed before a week to install rakudo  http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index​.cgi?roadmap_to_helping_with_development
06:15 azawawi saran: vista or xp?
06:15 saran azawawi : xp
06:15 saran TimToady : How to check whether seattle release is updated and in sync
06:15 azawawi saran: git checkout Seattle
06:15 azawawi saran: git pull
06:15 azawawi saran: forget the last command, only 'git checkout Seattle'
06:15 TimToady that won't track the head though, I'd think
06:15 TimToady if you want that
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06:15 saran azawawi : i used "git pull" in rakudo folder
06:15 azawawi saran: then you have the latest...
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06:15 azawawi saran: git checkout master and then git pull
06:15 azawawi saran: that's HEAD
06:15 saran azawawi : but i missed "git checkout seattle" ..
06:15 azawawi saran: if you need to stay only on Seattle
06:15 azawawi saran: then git checkout Seattle
06:15 saran azawawi : got it
06:15 azawawi saran: switching branch/head is very fast in git
06:15 saran azawawi : back after breakfast
06:15 azawawi saran: i'll be in #padre @ irc.perl.org
06:15 azawawi saran: cya
06:15 saran TimToady : shall use "mingw32-make" and "mingw32-make test" and "mingw32-make install" after the "perl configure.pl --gen-parrot" success
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06:15 azawawi [particle]: ping
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06:15 saran test message
06:15 clkao win 21
06:15 azawawi moritz_: latest win32 rakudo binary for almost-six-0.41,  http://feather.perl6.nl/~a​zawawi/six/six-seattle.zip , blog coming soon...
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06:16 Topic for #perl6is now »ö« | http://perl6.org/ | nopaste: http://paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo: / pugs: / std: | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
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06:41 saran can some one give some link related with the hash implementation in perl6
06:44 JimmyZ saran: Do you mean  rakudo?
06:45 saran jimmyz : yes
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07:02 saran Jimmyz : Did i missed out any of ur link or message?
07:03 JimmyZ saran: yes
07:04 saran jimmyz : Pls resend
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07:05 JimmyZ Is this what you want ? http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/​blob/master/src/classes/Hash.pir
07:06 JimmyZ or parrot hash pmc?
07:06 saran jimmyz : no..i just want a basic example and working of hash in parrot
07:13 JimmyZ rakudo: my @a = (1); @a[0] := @a; @a.perl
07:13 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«rtype not set␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
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07:22 JimmyZ rakudo: my %a = (:a<A>, :b<B>); %a{a} = %a; %a.perl;
07:23 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub a␤»
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07:26 TimToady std: my %a = (:a<A>, :b<B>); %a{a} = %a; %a.perl;
07:26 p6eval std 28280: OUTPUT«Undeclared routine:␤   a used at 1␤ok 00:03 39m␤»
07:27 TimToady std: my %a = (:a<A>, :b<B>); %a<a> = %a; %a.perl;
07:27 p6eval std 28280: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 39m␤»
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07:35 JimmyZ rakudo: my %a = (:a<A>, :b<B>); %a<a> = %a; %a.perl;
07:36 p6eval rakudo a969c9:  ( no output )
07:36 JimmyZ rakudo: my %a = (:a<A>, :b<B>); %a<a> := %a; %a.perl;
07:36 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«rtype not set␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
07:37 TimToady zzz &
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08:15 desertm4x Is there a generic way to create an own Container class either extending the List or Array class/role. I would like to add some methods that basically grep the array, but as some of the greps are lengthy and would occur at many different places, I'd like to avoid copying them to all these places.
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09:39 moritz_ re
09:42 clkao $66/win 21
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10:03 masak aloha, perl6ers.
10:05 moritz_ \ö/
10:06 masak moritz_: the antennae suit you.
10:06 moritz_ hairs, actually ;-)
10:06 moritz_ but thanks for the compliment
10:09 masak you only have two strands of hair?
10:09 JimmyZ hello, masak
10:10 masak JimmyZ: 你好, JimmyZ
10:11 JimmyZ masak: I think I found some bugs, but needs to review.
10:12 masak bring'em on.
10:12 JimmyZ rakudo: class Alpha { has @!a = < beta gamma >; method postcircumfix:<[ ]>($key) { return @!a[$key]; }; }; my $a = Alpha.new; say $a[1];
10:12 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«No such attribute '@!a'␤in method Alpha::postcircumfix:[ ] (/tmp/scXNRVM0V7:2)␤called from method Alpha::postcircumfix:[ ] (/tmp/scXNRVM0V7:2)␤called from Main (/tmp/scXNRVM0V7:2)␤»
10:12 JimmyZ rakudo: class Alpha { has @!a = < beta gamma >; method postcircumfix:<{ }>($key) { return @!a[$key]; }; }; my $a = Alpha.new; say $a{1};
10:12 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«gamma␤»
10:12 JimmyZ rakudo: class Alpha { has @!a = < beta gamma >; method postcircumfix:<( )>($key) { return @!a[$key]; }; }; my $a = Alpha.new; say $a(1);
10:12 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«gamma␤»
10:12 JimmyZ Is the first one a bug/
10:13 masak looks like.
10:13 JimmyZ another:
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10:13 JimmyZ rakudo: my $a = 1; repeat while $a<2 -> $b { $a++ }
10:14 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "$b { $a++ "␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
10:14 JimmyZ rakudo: my $a = 1; repeat while $a < 2 -> $b { $a++ }
10:14 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "-> $b { $a"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
10:14 masak yes, bug. but that one I reported for you a few days back. :)
10:14 masak er, or a very close variant of it.
10:15 JimmyZ rakudo: my $a = 1; while $a< 10 -> $b { $b.defined.say; };
10:15 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "$b { $b.de"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
10:15 JimmyZ rakudo: my $a = 1; while $a < 10 -> $b { $b.defined.say; };
10:15 p6eval rakudo a969c9:
10:15 p6eval ..OUTPUT«1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1​␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1​␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1​␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1​␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1�
10:16 JimmyZ and this?
10:16 JimmyZ rakudo: my $a = 1; while $a<10{ $^b.defined.say; };
10:16 masak aye, the one I reported had $^a.defined in it.
10:16 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (0) - 1 param expected␤in Main (/tmp/sVh0tTxHbM:0)␤»
10:17 JimmyZ rakudo: my $a = 1; while $a<10 { $^b.defined.say; };
10:17 masak that's the one.
10:17 p6eval rakudo a969c9:
10:17 p6eval ..OUTPUT«1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1​␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1​␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1​␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1​␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1�
10:17 masak feel free to add any of those to the ticket from a few days back.
10:17 JimmyZ the space between '0{'
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10:17 masak aye.
10:18 JimmyZ and like this:
10:18 JimmyZ rakudo: my $a = 1; while $a<10 -> $b { say $b.defined; $a++; }
10:18 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "$b { say $"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
10:18 JimmyZ rakudo: my $a = 1; while $a < 10 -> $b { say $b.defined; $a++; }
10:18 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤»
10:18 JimmyZ the *space*
10:19 moritz_ phenny, tell azawawi I think Moose is fixed now on feather1
10:19 phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when azawawi is around.
10:20 masak JimmyZ: aye. there are a couple of other known spacing issues reported too.
10:20 am0c my $a = 1; while $a < 10 { $^b.defined.say }
10:20 masak it's nice to keep track of them, becuase they are annoying when they bite people.
10:20 am0c rakudo: my $a = 1; while $a < 10 { $^b.defined.say }
10:20 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1​␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1​␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1​␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1​␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1
10:21 am0c rakudo: my $a = 0; say $a<10
10:21 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«1␤»
10:21 JimmyZ masak: I can't find why from the grammer. :(
10:21 masak JimmyZ: it's probably not so easy... then it would have been fixed already.
10:22 masak the grammar can be subtle.
10:23 JimmyZ yes.
10:26 masak rakudo: sub bar(:$foo) { say $foo }; class A { has $!foo = 'OH HAI'; method x { bar( :$!foo ) } }; A.new.x
10:26 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Symbol '$1foo' not predeclared in x␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
10:26 masak I'd be very interested to know where the '1' comes from.
10:27 moritz_ shift + 1 => !
10:28 masak er.
10:28 JimmyZ masak: token pblock { [ <.ws> <lambda> <.ws> <signature> ]? <.ws> <block> {*} }
10:28 JimmyZ
10:28 JimmyZ token xblock { <EXPR> <pblock> {*} }
10:28 moritz_ ;-)
10:29 masak rakudo: sub bar(:$foo) { say $foo }; class A { has $.foo = 'OH HAI'; method x { bar( :$.foo ) } }; A.new.x
10:29 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Symbol '$1foo' not predeclared in x␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
10:29 JimmyZ token pblock { [ <.ws> <lambda> <.ws> <signature> ]? <.ws> <block> {*} }
10:29 JimmyZ token xblock { <EXPR> <pblock> {*} }
10:29 masak moritz_: your theory falls apart with :$.foo. I think.
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10:52 moritz_ diakopter: ping
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11:39 pugs_svn r28281 | moritz++ | [new perl6.org] two column layout for community/
11:39 pugs_svn r28282 | moritz++ | [new perl6.org] two-column layout for compilers/
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11:53 pugs_svn r28283 | moritz++ | [new perl6.org] introduction to specification page
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12:12 takadonet morning all
12:12 moritz_ \o/
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12:30 masak I don't know what to respond to this kind of tweet: http://twitter.com/augustl/status/4077483740
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12:32 masak I once saw a blogpost comment say something like "Sometimes I daydream that I have the power to choose one meme to remove forever from the minds of people. If I did have that power, I'd choose this one." -- referring to the eternal joke about DNF/Perl 6/Plan 9.
12:32 pmurias masak: what does the checkpoint part of the tote diagram do?
12:32 masak pmurias: it's basically a hook where you can plug in git-commit or whatever.
12:33 masak pmichaud: it's also the point where the state of the tests is registered, and subsequent runs are compared against that state to determine whether progress has been made.
12:33 masak erm, pmurias, not pmichaud. :/
12:33 masak (just re-activating my membership in the Club of People Who Can't Tab-complete)
12:33 mberends masak, I dreamt that tote is just REPL in the large: Review, Edit, Prove, Loop
12:34 masak 哈哈
12:34 masak I whipped up a proto-tote yesterday, for private purposes.
12:34 masak conclusion: it does work, at least for me.
12:34 ruoso bom dia
12:35 masak bom dia, ruoso.
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12:37 masak mberends: I see you left smiley-adorned comments for me in the proto git-log :P
12:38 TiMBuS rakudo question: does Set/Bag exist? and if so how would i use them..
12:38 masak TiMBuS: they don't.
12:38 TiMBuS aw :(
12:38 masak I once wrote up a grant application to implement them.
12:38 masak and a few other things.
12:38 TiMBuS wanted to do the Right Thing and use not a hash for once
12:39 masak TiMBuS: tell us more about your use case.
12:39 mberends masak: nobody else reads 'em ;)
12:39 TiMBuS im just tracking irc nicks.
12:40 TiMBuS they're always unique. i dont need to keep any values tied to them, i just want to keep a list of nicks
12:41 masak sounds like a KeyHash to me.
12:41 TiMBuS oh?
12:41 masak yes, I think so.
12:41 masak let me check.
12:41 TiMBuS yeah ive got that syn open
12:41 masak hm, maybe even a KeySet.
12:42 TiMBuS whats the difference between a keyset/keybag and set/bag
12:43 masak the former autodelete pairs whose values match the default.
12:44 masak oh! and Set and Bag are immutable.
12:45 TiMBuS oh
12:46 finanalyst joined #perl6
12:46 finanalyst hi to any(every)one
12:47 finanalyst i keep running into <Method 'postcircumfix:[ ]' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'>
12:47 mzedeler joined #perl6
12:47 finanalyst it means I have mispelt something
12:48 finanalyst but I wish there was a little more information
12:48 masak join the club. :)
12:48 masak the 'Failure' part indicates that whatever you're trying to index isn't there.
12:48 finanalyst rakudo: my %x=<a b> Z 1,[3,4]; say %x<bc>[0]
12:48 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Method 'postcircumfix:[ ]' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'␤»
12:49 masak right.
12:49 masak because there's no %x<bc>
12:49 masak that's going to be fixed eventually.
12:49 finanalyst but this is something i use quite alot, so it would be nice to know what the invocant was
12:50 masak indeed.
12:50 masak right now they only way to guard oneself against this is to develop in very small steps.
12:50 masak that way, you know with greater certainty what line caused the error.
12:50 finanalyst 'fixed eventually' == 'when it reaches the level of irritability for someone to fix' ?
12:51 finanalyst i have tried to, but i just refactored something and this came up
12:52 finanalyst i wish there was some way even of tracing line numbers before the error
12:52 masak finanalyst: it wouldn't surprise me if fixing this is blocking on something.
12:52 finanalyst ah
12:52 masak finanalyst: I can assure you that pmichaud is aware of the degree to which it irritates people.
12:52 finanalyst by the way, does $*LINE or similar work?
12:53 masak that's $?LINE, I think.
12:53 moritz_ I don't think so
12:53 masak me neither.
12:54 finanalyst shame. it would be nice to sprinkle "say $?LINE" through the code
12:54 moritz_ rakudo: say $?LINE
12:54 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Symbol '$?LINE' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/HGaimLr94M:2)␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
12:55 * finanalyst sigh
12:56 moritz_ at least the error message is quite good
12:56 masak don't just do something. stand there!
12:57 finanalyst rakudo: $*trace_line = 1
12:57 p6eval rakudo a969c9:  ( no output )
12:57 moritz_ anybody's got a perl 6 related subdomain to spare?
12:57 finanalyst rakudo: say $*trace_line
12:57 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Contextual $*trace_line not found␤␤»
12:58 moritz_ I'd like to make the new version of perl6.org available somewhere
12:58 moritz_ and since it uses absolute links (in the form href="/community/") I can't easily put it into a subdirectory
12:59 finanalyst interesting. using REPL and setting $*xxx , I was able to get the value of the variable $*xxx back on the next line (if you see what i mean)
12:59 moritz_ std: $*foo = 2
12:59 p6eval std 28283: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 38m␤»
12:59 moritz_ std: say $*foo
13:00 p6eval std 28283: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
13:00 TiMBuS its because the repl is compiling each line into its own block
13:00 TiMBuS so any globals stay
13:01 finanalyst yes, but it was irritating that variables would not persist over several lines
13:01 finanalyst with globals this can be worked around
13:01 TiMBuS i wrote a patch a long while ago to make vars without 'my' autovivify on the repl, and set themselves in the outer namespace
13:02 finanalyst patch doesnt seem to be included in current repl
13:02 TiMBuS nope i didnt really submit it
13:03 sm` joined #perl6
13:04 TiMBuS was on git, i guess. i was looking for a way to modify the PCT so it could tell me when it was in REPL mode, instead of trying to guess from the arguments passed
13:05 TiMBuS and frankly i dont know how 'use strict/no strict' would be "properly" implemented anyway so i guess i ditched the idea =/
13:07 masak could someone make an IRC client module in Perl 6 that makes this possible? http://gist.github.com/189041
13:07 TiMBuS i get the feeling this was pointed at me?
13:07 masak no, at everybody.
13:08 masak especially at the lurkers. come one people! :)
13:08 masak s/one/on/
13:08 TiMBuS well my irc bot already does that but, not so perl 6-y
13:08 masak oh, so maybe my idea isn't so new, then.
13:09 masak I like that my example code is very, um, succinct.
13:09 TiMBuS it is
13:09 masak it should be possible to write something like that.
13:09 masak maybe even today.
13:09 TiMBuS i use mmd to trigger events, based on the method name
13:10 masak I stole the regex idea from Tene++'s LolDispatch.
13:10 ihrd joined #perl6
13:10 moritz_ you could use traits
13:10 masak LolDispatch does.
13:10 ihrd left #perl6
13:10 moritz_ method foo handles rx{...} {...}
13:10 ejs1 joined #perl6
13:10 masak hm, even better.
13:11 TiMBuS i just used where
13:11 masak actually, the hard part is writing the IRC client itself, I wager.
13:11 TiMBuS multi method on_message ( $msg where { $^msg ~~ /^\!8ball/ }, $from, $channel )
13:11 masak um.
13:11 masak oh! in a signature. cool!
13:11 TiMBuS i dont know enough about perl6 :(
13:12 moritz_ the problem with 'where' is that it's only an epsilon tighter
13:12 masak TiMBuS: if you want to, you can write $msg where /.../
13:12 masak I think.
13:12 moritz_ so when sombody writes Str $msg, it always wins
13:12 TiMBuS i think i tried that and it didnt work =/
13:12 masak moritz_: well then, write Str $msg where /.../ :)
13:12 TiMBuS heh
13:12 masak TiMBuS: I think it should.
13:12 TiMBuS lemme see
13:14 TiMBuS i should probably make the bot join this irc i guess
13:15 moritz_ TiMBuS: beware, you'll get all sorts of feedback ;-)
13:15 TiMBuS aa
13:15 masak we have an advanced taste in bots in here.
13:16 masak because we've used them a lot.
13:16 TiMBuS hey the where thing worked
13:16 masak :)
13:16 moritz_ s/advanced/particular/ ;-)
13:17 sri_kraih joined #perl6
13:17 TiMBuS well, you can suggest things to add to it if you want
13:17 TiMBuS the bot is fairly stunted in that it can't thread
13:17 masak moritz_: http://www.angryflower.com/advan.html :)
13:18 Tene masak: the problem with writing an IRC client is that Parrot doesn't have async IO support yet.
13:18 masak ah.
13:18 masak well, that kinda puts a damper on things.
13:18 TiMBuS and yeah that too
13:18 TiMBuS one irc server only
13:18 masak how come it doesn't? all I hear about with Parrot is asynch IO.
13:19 moritz_ asnch != threaded, in general
13:19 TiMBuS i wanted to make a twitter bot but it would ping out if it had to wait for the site
13:19 Tene masak: there's other IO cleanups that need to happen first, or something...
13:19 moritz_ POE is all asynchron, but single threaded
13:20 Jedai joined #perl6
13:20 TiMBuS how does it avoid locking?
13:20 devin non-blocking i/o
13:20 ejs1 joined #perl6
13:20 Tene exactly
13:21 psychoschlumpf left #perl6
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13:23 Jedai joined #perl6
13:23 TiMBuS hm. slightly back to my topic. moritz_ im using .* to dispatch events. so would Str $msg still override plain ol $msg
13:24 TiMBuS or would they both get called
13:27 masak sounds like a job for science!
13:27 masak rakudo: class A { method x($msg) { say "untyped $msg" }; method x(Str $msg) { say "Str-typed $msg" } }; A.new.*x("OH HAI")
13:27 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Str-typed OH HAI␤»
13:27 masak there you go. :)
13:27 TiMBuS aw
13:28 TiMBuS wait you didnt declare them multi
13:28 masak o_O
13:28 masak hold on.
13:28 masak rakudo: class A { multi method x($msg) { say "untyped $msg" }; multi method x(Str $msg) { say "Str-typed $msg" } }; A.new.*x("OH HAI")
13:28 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Str-typed OH HAI␤untyped OH HAI␤»
13:28 TiMBuS woot
13:28 jnthn Yes, .* calls all multi variants too :-)
13:29 * jnthn has weak-fi, may vanish at any moment
13:29 molaf joined #perl6
13:29 TiMBuS its practically made for an event model
13:30 masak the comments in proto will befuddle future archeologists: "#       YES: cheese speleology!"
13:30 mberends YES!
13:31 masak I propose a new unit. it measures poetic weirdness.
13:31 masak I call it... the _why.
13:31 masak proto just increased its poetic weirdness by a few milli_whys.
13:32 moritz_ #69202 is really obscure, masak
13:32 moritz_ masak++
13:32 * jnthn wonders if he even wants to look
13:32 masak yes, that one was very strange.
13:33 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
13:33 pdcawley_ joined #perl6
13:33 TiMBuS masak, so how did you expect .reply to work? i currently use '.msg(@replies.pick, $channel)' but i assume your example assumes the object will instead keep the state of the current event... which is not a bad idea
13:33 masak it took a separate git branch to isolate it.
13:33 masak TiMBuS: I just stuffed every thing away in the Session object $_ in the signature.
13:33 TiMBuS oooh right
13:34 * masak beams
13:34 jnthn masak: wow, ouch
13:34 masak jnthn: any idea why?
13:34 jnthn Yeah.
13:34 masak that's even sicker. :)
13:35 jnthn ;-)
13:35 jnthn It's because sig construction builds a junction of the types at the moment.
13:35 jnthn And I guess for some reason it's finding your all method.
13:35 jnthn :-/
13:35 masak ah!
13:35 masak yes, I believe there's a Parrot bug that confuddles methods and global subs.
13:36 jnthn Yeah, may be Parrot bug too.
13:36 masak yuck.
13:36 jnthn I'm not sure *why* it's happening, just that it's calling your all instead.
13:36 jnthn So you end up trying to get the $!a of a Str.
13:36 masak fortunately, all our problems will go away by April... :/
13:37 masak jnthn: note that I'm not even calling A.x
13:37 jnthn Given that signature creation is getting an epic re-write soon anyway, this one probably will be. :-)
13:37 jnthn Yeah, the sig object is built before then.
13:37 jnthn erm, sorry
13:37 jnthn is built at BEGIN time
13:38 ejs2 joined #perl6
13:38 ruoso rakudo: my $a = Multi.new; $a.push(sub (1,2,3) { }); $a.push(sub (1,2) { }); say $a.find_possible_candidates(1,2);
13:38 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Attributes of type 'MMD_Cache *' cannot be subclassed from a high-level PMC.␤in Main (/tmp/aojiQ2pM9V:0)␤»
13:39 * ruoso just checking...
13:39 agentzh1 joined #perl6
13:39 jnthn heh
13:39 jnthn not sure what to do about that one.
13:40 ruoso having a way to get the entire list of candidates would probably be a viable workaround
13:40 pdcawley joined #perl6
13:40 dalek rakudo: 4b141a8 | mberends++ | tools/test_summary.pl:
13:40 dalek rakudo: [tools/test_summary.pl] implement some simple relative benchmarking
13:40 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4​b141a8efa9616ef57afaa6d9b4eee2f3cac62cf
13:40 jnthn ruoso: .candidates
13:40 jnthn ruoso: you can probably iterate over that.
13:41 jnthn we could probably do with getting such thingies into the spec at some point.
13:41 ruoso rakudo: my $a = Multi.new; $a.push(sub (1,2,3) { }); $a.push(sub (1,2) { }); say join ", ": grep { $_.signature ~~ :(1,2) }, $a.candidates
13:41 agentzh joined #perl6
13:41 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near ": grep { $"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
13:41 ruoso oops
13:41 ruoso rakudo: my $a = Multi.new; $a.push(sub (1,2,3) { }); $a.push(sub (1,2) { }); say join ", ", grep { $_.signature ~~ :(1,2) }, $a.candidates
13:41 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in type()␤in Main (/tmp/k770kDLnAm:2)␤»
13:41 ruoso rakudo: my $a = Multi.new; $a.push(sub (1,2,3) { }); $a.push(sub (1,2) { }); say join ", ", $a.candidates
13:41 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in type()␤in Main (/tmp/5ntl23v2XH:2)␤»
13:42 jnthn Hmm.
13:42 jnthn rakudo: my $a = Multi.new; $a.push(sub (1,2,3) { }); $a.push(sub (1,2) { }); say $a.candidates.perl
13:42 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in find_method()␤in Main (/tmp/66K19yHqOh:2)␤»
13:42 jnthn rakudo: my $a = Multi.new; $a.push(sub (1,2,3) { }); $a.push(sub (1,2) { }); say $a.candidates
13:42 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in type()␤in Main (/tmp/JSNebHBeLm:2)␤»
13:42 jnthn ...eww...
13:43 ruoso rakudo: my $a = Multi.new; $a.push(sub (1,2,3) { }); $a.push(sub (1,2) { }); say "Alive"
13:43 p6eval rakudo a969c9: OUTPUT«Alive␤»
13:43 masak jnthn: rakudobug?
13:44 jnthn masak: npmca always is
13:44 simcop238 joined #perl6
13:44 masak :)
13:44 * masak goes through the motions
13:44 jnthn Feel free to submit; I'd like to try and get some "official" introspection interface agreed on for multis though.
13:45 jnthn Then we can have spectests.
13:45 masak \o/
13:45 jnthn And then it's more worthwhile fixing it (because we'll then be sure not to break it again...)
13:45 ruoso I think .candidates is consusus
13:45 jnthn ruoso: consensus?
13:46 mberends masak: I'm thinking of refactoring proto into MVC form. Ecosystem.pm is the Model, and Installer is View and Controller. How about separating those roles?
13:46 jnthn ruoso: Agree though that it's fine.
13:46 masak mberends: soudns good.
13:46 mberends :)
13:46 masak that's how I think about it anyway.
13:46 Matt-W as in &my-multi.candidates ?
13:47 ruoso jnthn, I mean, having $multi.candidates as spec is "general agreement"
13:47 ruoso consensus in portuguese only means that
13:47 jnthn ruoso: OK, then we're agreeing. :-)
13:51 masak I'm getting back to my usual level of bug submitting. there's been a drought lately, for unknown reasons.
13:51 * ruoso adding a new section on S06 for Introspection
13:51 jnthn masak: getting harder to find bugs? ;-)
13:52 masak jnthn: the past month indicates it is. the past two days indicate it isn't. :)
13:52 jnthn ruoso: Great. I want to try and get some filling out of and consensus on signature introspection at some point in the future too.
13:52 jnthn (now now...)
13:54 * jnthn enjoys probably the most spacious room he's going to have in his entire stay in Japan.
13:54 Matt-W where are you?
13:54 jnthn Matt-W: Nara.
13:54 jnthn Which after Kyoto is a wonderfully peaceful city.
13:54 Matt-W :)
13:54 Matt-W Not heard of it
13:54 jnthn It was once the capital.
13:55 jnthn But these days, quite small and not so significant.
13:55 jnthn Thus I only decided to have a single night here. Turns out it's really quite a nice place though.
13:55 jnthn Not so much jaw-dropping sights, but unlike Kyoto it's fairly consistently nice.
13:56 jnthn Kyoto has some awesome things to see, but walking between them it's kinda "meh".
13:56 jnthn So I spent my time jumping between the nice bits. Here it was nice to just stroll, sit in a park, etc.
13:56 Jedai joined #perl6
13:57 masak I like such places.
13:57 masak Lisbon was great for walking, too.
13:58 devin the best way to get around kyoto is taxi, bicycle, or bus
13:58 devin you can rent bicycles
14:00 masak mberends: tell me a bit about projects.state
14:00 ruoso jnthn, I just realized we could rename $multi.find_possible_candidates to $multi.cando
14:01 jnthn ruoso: find_possible_candidates was really an internal-ish thing that I never expected to become public API anyway, but yes, we could rename it.
14:01 jnthn devin: The subway was vaguely useful too.
14:01 jnthn But quite limited in coverage.
14:03 FCO joined #perl6
14:04 pugs_svn r28284 | ruoso++ | [spec/S06] add a section for Introspection, with three proposed methods...
14:04 ruoso jnthn, ^^
14:05 ruoso rakudo: my $a = Multi.new; $a.push(sub (1,2,3) { }); $a.push(sub (1,2) { }); say $a.signature
14:05 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«No signature found␤␤»
14:06 ruoso TimToady, you probably want to take a look at the change I made in S06
14:12 masak rakudo: 3,
14:12 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«No result object␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:2815)␤»
14:12 masak was this ever reported?
14:12 finanalyst rakudo: my $y=3; for ^$y { .say }; my %x=<a b c> Z 1,3,3; $y = %x.delete('b'); say 'new ' ~ $y; for ^$y { .say }
14:13 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤new 3␤0␤»
14:13 * masak submits rakudobug
14:14 finanalyst masak: is there any reason the second ^$y should not be a range?
14:15 masak finanalyst: don't think so.
14:15 finanalyst so this is a bug?
14:15 masak rakudo: my %x=<a b c> Z 1,3,3; my $y = %x.delete('b'); say $y.WHAT;
14:15 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«Array()␤»
14:15 agentzh joined #perl6
14:15 masak rakudo: my %x=<a b c> Z 1,3,3; my $y = %x.delete('b'); say (^$y).WHAT;
14:16 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«Range()␤»
14:16 ruoso there has been a recent spec change in that respect, hasn't it?
14:16 masak rakudo: my %x=<a b c> Z 1,3,3; my $y = %x.delete('b'); say (^$y).perl;
14:16 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«0..^1␤»
14:16 masak ah.
14:16 masak it's an empty range.
14:16 masak I don't know whether it's a bug or not.
14:17 finanalyst rakudo: my %x=<a b c> Z 1,3,3; my $y = %x.delete('b'); say $y
14:17 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«3␤»
14:17 finanalyst so what changes?
14:17 masak finanalyst: it looks like a number when printed, but it's an Array.
14:17 masak see above.
14:18 finanalyst should it be an Array?
14:18 masak that's the 1M$ question.
14:18 carlin JimmyZ++ # following up that bug that I never bothered too ... I should probably do something about the others
14:19 finanalyst rakudo: my %x=<a b c> Z 1,3,3; my $y = + %x.delete('b'); say $y.WHAT
14:19 Tene rakudo: $*msg = "O HAI"; say $*msg;
14:19 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
14:19 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«Contextual $*msg not found␤␤»
14:20 carlin rakudo: my $socket = IO::Socket::INET.socket(2,1,6); $socket.bind('127.0.0.1', 4242); $socket.listen(); $socket.recv(); while $socket.accept() {};
14:20 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_bool()␤in Main (/tmp/RDL9C5b1po:2)␤»
14:20 agentzh2 joined #perl6
14:20 finanalyst my %x=<a b c> Z 1,3,3; $y = %x.delete('b'); say 'new ' ~ $y; for ^+$y { .say }
14:20 carlin Known?
14:20 masak carlin: probably not. feel free to report it.
14:20 finanalyst rakudo: my %x=<a b c> Z 1,3,3; $y = %x.delete('b'); say 'new ' ~ $y; for ^+$y { .say }
14:21 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«Symbol '$y' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/KpGhPVjw0s:2)␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
14:21 carlin masak: Okay, sure :)
14:21 finanalyst rakudo: my %x=<a b c> Z 1,3,3; my $y = %x.delete('b'); say 'new ' ~ $y; for ^+$y { .say }
14:21 carlin How about ...
14:21 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«new 3␤0␤»
14:21 carlin rakudo: grammar foo { rule TOP { 'lorem' | <.panic> }; method panic { die "The sky is falling!"; }; }; foo.parse('blah');
14:21 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in find_method()␤in method foo::panic (/tmp/DbgEqS8ZnV:2)␤called from regex foo::TOP (/tmp/DbgEqS8ZnV:2)␤called from Main (/tmp/DbgEqS8ZnV:2)␤»
14:21 finanalyst left #perl6
14:21 masak carlin: never seen it before. that's two, way to go! carlin++
14:22 masak package them up nicely and send them to RT.
14:22 carlin Right-e-o. One more, not sure what is supposed to happen here
14:23 jnthn yeah, I hate it when people package bugs up carelessly
14:23 jnthn :-)
14:23 carlin rakudo: class Alpha { has $!beta; method gamma { my $!beta = 'omega'; while $!beta { say 'Delta'; }; }; }; my $a = Alpha.new; $a.gamma;
14:23 p6eval rakudo 4b141a:  ( no output )
14:24 carlin Or even
14:24 masak my $!beta; o_O
14:24 carlin rakudo: class Alpha { has $!beta; method gamma { $!beta = 'omega'; say $!beta; }; }; my $alpha = Alpha.new(beta => 'delta'); $alpha.gamma;
14:24 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«omega␤»
14:25 masak carlin: that last one looks fine by me.
14:25 carlin rakudo: class Foo { method bar { my $!baz = 'lorem'; say $!baz; }; }; Foo.bar;
14:25 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«No such attribute '$!baz'␤in method Foo::bar (/tmp/VN8Cw2TD55:2)␤called from Main (/tmp/VN8Cw2TD55:2)␤»
14:25 masak I don't think 'my $!attr;' should be allowed in methods.
14:26 carlin Yeah, rakudo just silently ignores it
14:26 masak maybe that can be submitted as a ticket.
14:28 carlin Oh and
14:29 carlin my $s = IO::Socket::INET.new; $s.open('127.0.0.1', 123456); $s.send('foo'); say "Lorem ipsum"; # try it from the REPL, evalbot seems to handle it
14:29 carlin rakudo: my $s = IO::Socket::INET.new; $s.open('127.0.0.1', 123456); $s.send('foo'); say "Lorem ipsum"; # try it from the REPL, evalbot seems to handle it
14:29 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«Lorem ipsum␤»
14:32 sm^^^ joined #perl6
14:35 carlin here the REPL silently exits
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14:44 mberends masak: er, projects.state will store metadata about projects that proto has worked with locally, and which cannot be obtained from the project files themselves. It is formatted like projects.list so that the same routines handle reading and writing. The possible values of state are to be laid down by a specially convened bikeshed meeting.
14:44 riffraff joined #perl6
14:44 masak oki.
14:44 moritz_ mberends++ # 'specially convened bikeshed meeting'
14:45 kidd_ joined #perl6
14:45 masak as long as proto itself can be installed, I'm fine with that.
14:46 mberends ...but never uninstalled
14:47 masak :)
14:49 * mberends never thought about installing proto itself ;)
14:50 masak hm, as soon as I said it I started questioning whether it's that important...
14:50 masak I think I'm getting too attached to proto. I shouldn't let that happen.
14:52 * mberends raps masak over the knuckles
14:52 * masak whimpers
14:52 * Matt-W throws custard
14:53 masak o_O
14:53 mberends yum!
14:53 masak sigh, someone re-Tweeted the Perl 6/DNF joke. :(
14:53 mberends don't let them bait you
14:54 masak mberends: i.e. don't reply at all, just let them be?
14:54 __ash__ joined #perl6
14:54 mberends yeah, they may be out to taunt you
14:54 KyleHa joined #perl6
14:55 * mberends isn't really paranoid, they really _are_ out to get us
14:56 masak mberends: I've had that thought too. it's something Heisenbergian over it all: if I and others start a grassroots drive to defend/hype Perl 6 on Twitter, then people might catch on and try to actively taunt us.
14:56 mberends :)
14:57 masak but there are a couple of successes already. I especially like the "eeew, Perl 6 has hyphens in identifiers" guy.
14:57 TimToady maybe I should get quietfanatic to rename is gaming platform to DNF...
14:57 TimToady *his
14:57 masak I replied "it's got apostrpohies too :)"
14:58 masak and the guy actually sent a nice tweet back, saying "thanks! apostrophes, eh... well i suppose one benefit is that perl poetry will look more like english ;)"
14:58 Matt-W Does it?
14:58 Matt-W I thought apostrophes were gone...
14:58 TimToady usually the best approach is something self-deprecating and aikidoish, unless the best approach is to ignore it :)
14:58 masak rakudo: my $ka'pla = 42; say "Alive!"
14:59 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«Alive!␤»
14:59 TimToady apostrophes as :: is gone
14:59 TimToady it's just part of the name
14:59 sri_kraih_ joined #perl6
14:59 Matt-W aaah okay
14:59 Matt-W Getting my wires crossed
14:59 TimToady std: $ain't
14:59 p6eval std 28284: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤  Variable $ain't is not predeclared at /tmp/TnwknAz8iq line 1:␤------> [32m$ain't[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤ok 00:02 37m␤»
14:59 Matt-W So I can call my variables $arthur's-weight
14:59 masak yup.
14:59 Matt-W woooooo
14:59 TimToady in both cases there must be a letter following
14:59 masak $arthur's-wizard
15:00 TimToady though people keep asking for trailing '
15:00 masak but personally, I'd just go with $merlin.
15:00 Exodist joined #perl6
15:00 masak TimToady: don't cave in! :)
15:00 Matt-W I think trailing would be scary
15:00 Matt-W However
15:00 Matt-W Haskell programmers would love it
15:00 Matt-W because they like calling functions things like f'
15:01 Matt-W or they would, if Haskell would let them
15:01 Matt-W they do in their research papers
15:01 Tene TimToady: aw, c'mon...
15:01 Tene or should that be: cmon'
15:02 Matt-W no it should be c'mon
15:02 TimToady I wish I knew what I was doin'
15:02 Matt-W you can't respell things just to make a point
15:02 Matt-W unless it's about spelling, I suppose
15:02 justatheory joined #perl6
15:02 Matt-W suddenly feeling quite keen on the idea of being able to say sub f'() { }
15:03 Matt-W this is probably an evil urge and should be dealt with at once
15:03 mdxi there's also nothing to contract there :)
15:03 TimToady it's short for ", no, the other one"
15:03 Tene ♪ I've got a theory... ♪
15:05 sri_kraih__ joined #perl6
15:05 Matt-W Tene: no, it's not a dancing demon
15:06 Tene Yeah, something isn't right there.
15:06 mdxi geh, can you imagine if, because of the apostrophe which represents the elision of the terminal G in many English words, people started putting them after words which actually *end* in an N, the way they seem to have decided that the genitive apostrophe-S actually means "WARNING: AN S IS APPROACHING!"
15:06 Tene ...
15:06 mdxi now i'm depressed
15:07 Tene Me too.
15:07 * sjohnson pats both you guys on the back
15:07 sjohnson there there
15:07 masak :)
15:07 agentzh joined #perl6
15:08 Matt-W haha
15:08 Matt-W I tweeted about apostrophes in identifiers
15:08 TimToady hugme: hug mdxi
15:08 * hugme hugs mdxi
15:09 Matt-W a friend replies that's nothing, you can have spaces in PHP identifiers... although you probably shouldn't
15:09 masak moritz_++ # http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/when-we-re​ach-100-percent-we-did-something-wrong.html
15:09 * Matt-W -> singing lesson &
15:09 moritz_ thanks
15:09 moritz_ masak: it seems you're quite a bit behind with your bagblogging ;-)
15:10 masak moritz_: oh, you have no idea. :(
15:10 masak moritz_: it's been a week since I opened my feed reader. I'll _get_ to these tabs in little over two months.
15:10 masak yup, I'm a packrat.
15:11 moritz_ Rat.pack('I2')
15:12 agentzh1 joined #perl6
15:14 diakopter std: my $_'_
15:14 p6eval std 28284: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
15:15 TimToady std: my $_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
15:15 p6eval std 28284: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m␤»
15:16 Juerd Is _ considered alphanumeric or has the spec changed?
15:16 diakopter yes?
15:16 Juerd Or have I remembered it wrong :)
15:17 moritz_ _ is alphanumeric
15:17 masak strange, but true.
15:18 Juerd Is it alpha or number? :)
15:19 masak alpha, methinks.
15:20 masak good news! spectesting only took 71 minutes today.
15:21 * masak goes home to prepare for tonight's pancake party
15:21 masak o/
15:21 diakopter >o
15:22 moritz_ pancakes++
15:24 sjohnson pancakes?
15:24 sjohnson heh
15:24 sjohnson i hate it when people criticize me for eating pancakes at night
15:24 sjohnson they looked at me like they wanted to burn me at the stake
15:25 TimToady sjohnson: call them Swedish Pancakes and then it's perfectly acceptable
15:25 devin it's always morning somewhere
15:25 TimToady or if they're round pancakes, call them ebelskivers
15:25 TimToady s/round/spherical
15:27 sjohnson heh
15:33 zpmorgan joined #perl6
15:41 mdxi pancakes are *always* acceptible, as are waffles
15:43 TimToady mdxi: except for those of us who are allergic to them...
15:44 mdxi i was thinking within a social context, not a medical one -- my apologies
15:46 TimToady 'sokay, I believe in context sensitivity :)
15:46 TimToady half my jokes come from taking things out of context
15:46 desertm4x_ joined #perl6
15:46 * sjohnson postpones the surprise pancake party
15:51 mofino joined #perl6
15:53 snearch joined #perl6
15:56 agentzh joined #perl6
16:07 agentzh joined #perl6
16:14 ejs joined #perl6
16:18 azawawi joined #perl6
16:20 * araujo didn't know TimToady told jokes
16:21 azawawi hi
16:21 phenny azawawi: 10:19Z <moritz_> tell azawawi I think Moose is fixed now on feather1
16:21 azawawi moritz_: thank you
16:21 azawawi moritz_++
16:21 azawawi moritz_: ping
16:23 pugs_svn r28285 | lwall++ | [viv] always assume --pos, make args entries for diakopter++
16:28 diakopter whee
16:28 sjohnson hey
16:30 diakopter hey
16:31 * diakopter retweets my own tweet
16:36 ejs1 joined #perl6
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16:39 moritz_ azawawi: pong
16:39 [particle] left #perl6
16:40 azawawi moritz_: i nearly finished my Six win32 updater for Padre::Plugin::Perl6 :)
16:41 moritz_ what does it do?
16:41 azawawi moritz_: with it you can select rakudo's release that you need to play with...
16:41 azawawi moritz_: and it downloads it and installs it to c:\strawberry\six...
16:41 moritz_ nice
16:42 azawawi moritz_: i need your help about a couple of things regarding seattle's announcement
16:42 moritz_ shoot
16:43 azawawi moritz_: '=$handle' is deprecated in favor of '$handle.get' (one line), do rakudo actually output a warning that it is deprecated?
16:43 azawawi moritz_: do/does
16:43 moritz_ rakudo: say =$*IN
16:43 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«prefix:<=> has been superseded by $handle.lines and $handle.get␤in Main (/tmp/na5RKIPFbF:2)␤»
16:43 sjohnson just told my boss that i am starting to hate my job and life because anything that isn't Perl is not fun to program in
16:44 moritz_ sjohnson: what did he say?
16:44 stephenlb joined #perl6
16:44 sjohnson he seemed to tell i wasn't happy at work
16:45 sjohnson he might let me go, which would cause a dire catastrophe in my life
16:45 sjohnson is it okay to hate javascript?
16:45 diakopter no
16:45 sjohnson i am wondering if i am the only one, and soemthing is wrong with me
16:45 diakopter :)
16:45 TimToady you should program JS using Perl 6, is all...
16:45 diakopter or vice versa.
16:46 azawawi std: say =$*IN;
16:46 TimToady which is what diakopter is workin on at the moment
16:46 p6eval std 28285: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead at /tmp/0sjFtIcjgW line 1:␤------> [32msay =[33m⏏[31m$*IN;[0m␤FAILED 00:02 37m␤»
16:46 diakopter and fglock
16:46 sjohnson i wonder if i should phon a suicide hotline
16:46 sjohnson phone*
16:46 sjohnson they probably wouldn't understand my complaint
16:46 TimToady if you're thinking suicidal thoughts, then yes
16:47 TimToady if you're on antidepressants, you should call your doctor and talk about it
16:48 sjohnson ahh i would never kill myself, just get pretty bummed out from time to time
16:48 TimToady if you're simply *unhappy*, then probably not
16:48 sjohnson having to work with PHP and javascript 90% of the day, everyday
16:48 TimToady it's quite possible to be unhappy without being clinically depressed
16:49 azawawi moritz_: perfect, now i have a couple of examples regarding Six updater
16:49 azawawi moritz_: thanks, moritz_++
16:49 TimToady it's also quite possible to be clinically depressed and blame it on your unhappiness :)
16:49 mofino sjohnson, at least you have that, you could be stuck with a lifetime of manual labour
16:49 mofino not that there is anything wrong with manual labour...
16:49 huf i beg to differ
16:49 sjohnson true, i did that a lot in highschool
16:50 diakopter sjohnson: let's get to the bottom of your JS hatred. :) What about JS gets to you? I suspect there's a way to Perlify it...?
16:50 sjohnson got paid dick all and was made fun of all the time for being smarter than them :)
16:50 mberends perldoc Timer::Hires
16:50 sjohnson things like declaring $string = '';
16:50 sjohnson to instantiate a string
16:50 mberends er, wrong window :|
16:50 sjohnson and forgetting to do that, and everything hanging if i do a += opperand
16:51 sjohnson variables being null when passed by functions having to always be "babysitted"
16:51 sjohnson in the functions themselves
16:52 mofino doesn't sound so horrendeous
16:52 diakopter anything else?
16:52 mdxi sjohnson: have you thought of something like shunting yourself sideways a little, like starting a test suite for your javascript codebase? becoming the Testing Guru or something like that?
16:52 pugs_svn r28286 | moritz++ | [new perl6.org] design fixes; more camlia goodness
16:53 sjohnson window.top.window. type scoping calls
16:53 mdxi sjohnson: and are you using a tool like firebug to help with the debugging?
16:53 sjohnson yes, i also hate firebug
16:53 pugs_svn r28287 | moritz++ | [new perl6.org] added images, and index.html
16:53 diakopter sjohnson: me 2
16:53 mdxi nevermind that, then :)
16:53 sjohnson trying to edit CSS properties in firebugs from its interface is like pulling teeth
16:53 diakopter sjohnson: do you use a Windows machine?
16:53 sjohnson yes, windows XP
16:54 diakopter have you tried IE8's JS debugger?  it's *many* times faster than firebug, and much much easier to navigate imho.
16:54 sjohnson interesting...
16:54 sjohnson does it come with IE8?
16:54 diakopter yeah
16:54 diakopter hit F12
16:55 pugs_svn r28288 | moritz++ | [new perl6.org] fix link
16:55 diakopter the function call profiler with it is also excellent
16:55 moritz_ what I don't like about js is that new blocks don't introduce new scopes
16:56 diakopter every time I try to use the JS "dev tools" in Safari, Chrome, or Firefox, I'm severely disappointed by breakage, ugliness, and slowness, and end up going back to IE8's debugger.
16:57 diakopter but I keep giving the latest builds' another chance every week or two
16:57 diakopter :)
16:57 mdxi (opera has one now, too, called dragonfly. don't know anything about its quality or workings though)
16:57 diakopter builds no trailing apostrophe
16:57 diakopter well, maybe trailing apostrophe with implied "dev tools"
16:58 moritz_ .oO( trailing catastrophy )
16:58 sjohnson diakopter: will try
16:58 moritz_ http://sandbox.rakudo.de/ (early) preview of the new perl6.org site
16:58 sjohnson firebug's clunkyness definitely was part of my JS rant
16:59 diakopter mdxi: I haven't tried Opera's... thanks for the reminder about it.
17:03 TimToady moritz_: nice.  maybe the MORE links should be white
17:04 TimToady and possibly right justified
17:04 TimToady or centered
17:04 sjohnson TimToady: do you like any other languages besides Perl?
17:05 TimToady English is pretty okay
17:05 TimToady Japanese is kinda fun
17:06 moritz_ TimToady: I'll see how that looks
17:06 sjohnson i like Japanese a lot too
17:06 sjohnson it's "cute"
17:07 diakopter I tried speaking in tongues once, but I glossed over its lexicon too quickly.
17:09 * araujo thinks japanese girls are cute too
17:10 mdxi moritz_: nice. i like the splitting-out of things
17:10 cdarroch joined #perl6
17:12 pugs_svn r28289 | moritz++ | [new perl6.org] make the box headings link to the sub pages
17:12 moritz_ mdxi: thanks
17:12 sjohnson pugs_svn's + sign is cute
17:12 sjohnson :)
17:12 moritz_ I'm not sure what to do with the download box
17:14 syntheticore joined #perl6
17:14 moritz_ I hope you looked at the sub pages too (only some of them exist right now)
17:15 [particle] joined #perl6
17:16 M_o_C joined #perl6
17:16 mdxi i did
17:20 pugs_svn r28290 | moritz++ | [new perl6.org] center the »MORE« links, make them white. TimToady++
17:20 syntheticore joined #perl6
17:23 syntheticore left #perl6
17:25 TimToady moritz_: no fun :)
17:26 syntheticore joined #perl6
17:26 moritz_ TimToady: I know :(
17:28 ruoso TimToady, I know you probably saw it already... but I've made some changes in S06 that need your review....
17:30 moritz_ ruoso: the bindability check can already be made with smart matching against .signature
17:31 ruoso moritz_, it's a bit more than that... it's about getting the list of possible candidates
17:32 * ruoso assuming moritz_ was talking about .cando($capture)
17:33 diakopter rakudo: say(eval('blahblah')); say('hi');
17:33 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«␤hi␤»
17:33 ruoso one thing that should be noted is that the API is the same for only vs multi routines...
17:38 chturne Apologies if this is a FAQ, but where is the help needed at the moment in Perl 6?
17:38 chturne (Or, wheres a good place to start)
17:41 TimToady chturne: well, here on irc, and http://perl6.org, and all the links you find there
17:41 TimToady are you familiar with Perl 5?
17:42 chturne Yes
17:43 alexn_org joined #perl6
17:43 chturne Ah, I didn't see that link before. I guess a good starting place would be to write lots of Perl 6 code then! And file good bug reports :D
17:43 TimToady then http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-5-to-6/ is useful as a bootstrap
17:44 TimToady chturne: yes, real code finding real bugs is The Best
17:44 chturne Thanks TimToady.
17:46 TimToady chturne: note, on the perl-5-to-6 link, you want to visit in the order down on the left margin
17:46 TimToady since it bloggily comes up in reverse order
17:47 chturne Heh, yes, it start looking weird quickly before I figured that out!
17:55 rfordinal joined #perl6
18:03 pugs_svn r28291 | lwall++ | [STD] revise LTA message on $x<10
18:03 pugs_svn r28291 | [Cursor] provide reliable way of resetting position before panic
18:04 timbunce joined #perl6
18:06 Tene HI TIM
18:06 * TimToady almost types /kick
18:07 Tene who's being kicked?
18:09 TimToady sorry, just a C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[​C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[Cstartle reflex when someone shouts
18:10 TimToady o.O
18:10 Tene o.O
18:10 huf that's an odd reflex there
18:10 TimToady O.o
18:10 huf and who took my fork!
18:10 Tene Hmm.  Apparently you are startled.
18:11 timbunce Has any thought been given to teaching the ohloh.net code scanner how to recognize perl6 code?
18:11 TimToady universal negatives are difficult
18:12 timbunce um, how about has it been discussed?
18:12 TimToady not that I know of
18:13 TimToady (difficult to prove, but not difficult to disprove)
18:13 Tene TimToady: should closures and subs be printable?
18:13 TimToady (except for the part about finding the disproof....)
18:14 TimToady Tene: I'd think the default should be yes, though exactly what you mean by "closure" is subject to ambiguity
18:14 TimToady we can certainly get at the original code, at least until it's thrown away
18:15 TimToady but I suspect that throwing away the source code will not be default, is what I mean
18:15 Tene What do you think about: sub f ($a, $b) { say $a, $b }; my $c = &f.assuming(5); say $c;
18:15 TimToady however, a real closure is also all the lexical state it captures around it
18:16 jauaor joined #perl6
18:16 jauaor :)
18:17 timbunce In the hope I can tickle someone into contributing a perl6 recognizer for ohloh, the project page is http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/ohcount/
18:18 TimToady well, there's always (sub f ($a, $b) { say $a, $b }).assuming(5)
18:18 TimToady or some such
18:18 Tene Eh, true.
18:18 TimToady but one would perhaps like the simplified form
18:18 TimToady which you could also do for closures with known bindings, presumably
18:19 TimToady it's just a matter of traversing the AST and doing all the substitutions in the right order :)
18:19 TimToady easy...
18:19 Tene Would "-> $b { say 5, $b }" be valid?
18:20 TimToady I'd think something like that would be okay
18:20 Tene Hmm.  Okay.
18:20 TimToady likewise if $a had been in the outer lexical scope instead of a param
18:21 TimToady well, except for the rw-ness of $a
18:21 TimToady hmm
18:21 TimToady if we lose the container identity it could be problematic
18:21 Tene Well, it's probably relevant to ask what the purpose of stringification is.  Is it just to provide information to the programmer?  an attempt at serialization?
18:23 TimToady I'm thinking that, at least within a process, we have a way of designating a particular lexical scope frame with an opaque (autogenned?) designator
18:23 TimToady so you'd end up with -> $b { say SOMEMAGICdeadbeef::<$a>, $b } for the lexical $a
18:24 Tene Hmm.  That doesn't seem like it would be particularly useful for serialization or for the programmer...
18:24 TimToady and serializing that would probably assume some kind of snapshot of the current value
18:25 TimToady it's potentially useful to distinguish two different $a values in the debugger
18:25 TimToady if you see that deadbeef isn't hte same as deadface
18:26 Tene although, should ~ and .perl() of &c be different?
18:26 Tene are there implied different purposes for those?
18:26 TimToady there's no guarantee that ~ has to be parseable
18:26 TimToady merely human readable
18:27 TimToady it's okay for ~ to be ambiguous for non-essential details, for instance
18:27 TimToady ~%hash is ambiguous if keys or values contain tab, for instance
18:27 Tene So, for example, ~ could have '5' and .perl could have deadface::
18:28 TimToady yeah
18:29 Tene Okay. :)
18:33 muixirt hmm ... Arrays are lists of data of the same type that are indexed by number?
18:34 TimToady where "same type" is often just Object
18:35 * jauaor wonders if there is a way to induce his former employer to use perl6 :P
18:36 TimToady yes, but it might take a few more years
18:36 TimToady has something to do with world domination first
18:36 jauaor haha
18:36 jauaor TimToady: former employer wants me to get into ruby
18:36 jauaor mmm....
18:38 TimToady well, you could be a double agent, I suppose
18:39 muixirt "Arrays are lists of data objects that are indexed by number" would be a better explanation?
18:39 jauaor TimToady: haha
18:44 * muixirt was looking at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Perl​_6_Programming/Variables_and_Data
18:44 TimToady it's probably wrong
18:46 cognominal TimToady, can MAD in Perl 5 can be used for syntactic highligting? How to get the output anyway?
18:47 TimToady it could, but you need to compile Perl 5 specially to get MADSKILLS
18:47 syntheticore joined #perl6
18:47 TimToady and it's slightly bitrotted
18:48 cognominal I recompiled it I just don't know how to use it.
18:51 colomon rakudo: given 1.5 { when 1..2 { say 'between one and two' }; say 'not'; };
18:51 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«between one and two␤»
18:53 mdxi heh :)
18:53 TimToady cognominal: offhand, I don't remember all the details, but you set PERL_MADSKILLS in the environment, and then a debug dump of some sort spits out raw mad xml
18:53 cognominal thx
18:54 TimToady which you run through nomad to move things around to sane locations on the tree
18:54 TimToady other than that, you'll have to look at the source code
18:54 TimToady I'm not sure how much it has mutated since I last looked at it
18:54 stephenlb joined #perl6
18:55 cognominal that's probably enough to get me started...
18:55 cognominal I see indeed to env vars PERL_XMLDUMP and PERL_MADSKILLS
18:56 TimToady most of the code can be found by greping for MAD or mad
18:57 TimToady the basic idea is that it modifies the actual Perl 5 tree as little as possible, just annotating all the places where Perl lied to itself
18:57 TimToady nomad is what does the "unlying"
18:57 colomon rakudo: given 1.5 { when Range.new(from => 1, to => 2, by => 1/3) { say 'between one and two' }; say 'not'; };
18:57 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«between one and two␤»
18:57 cognominal The lexer lies a lot, I have read toke.c a long time a go
18:58 colomon rakudo: say Range.new(from => 1, to => 2, by => 1/3).list.perl
18:58 TimToady the parser also lies to itself :)
18:58 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤»
19:01 TimToady gah, how did it get to be lunch time already?!?
19:06 sri_kraih_ joined #perl6
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19:11 pugs_svn r28292 | diakopter++ | [vijs] implement Concatenation, Comma; generalize .args calling convention
19:11 integral joined #perl6
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19:18 diakopter vijs: say 'howdy ' ~ 'world'
19:18 p6eval vijs 28291: OUTPUT«howdy world␤␤  time in interpreter: 0.045004 s␤»
19:19 diakopter vijs: say 'Meesa ' ~ '»ö«'
19:19 p6eval vijs 28291: OUTPUT«Meesa »ö«␤␤     time in interpreter: 0.044941 s␤»
19:19 muixirt vijs?
19:19 diakopter 6js
19:20 diakopter this little Perl 6 interpreter I'm toying
19:20 cognominal written in javascript?
19:20 diakopter yeah
19:21 diakopter uses TimToady's STD parser in Perl 5, which is linked to Google's V8 JS VM
19:22 muixirt sounds complicated
19:22 cognominal in what format is the STD parse tree? I guess I have already asked, by my memory is volatile
19:23 diakopter there's a YAML emitter and a "JSON" (not really JSON, but JS) emitter I wrote...
19:23 cognominal Perl 6 in a browser is definitively yhe way to
19:24 diakopter but viv (6->5) uses the VAST system to construct/post-process it
19:24 cognominal your stuff is in the pugs repository?
19:24 iblechbot joined #perl6
19:25 diakopter yeah; see http://perlcabal.org/svn/pugs/revision/?rev=28292 for hints
19:27 cognominal the V8 source is independent of chrome?
19:28 diakopter yep; see http://perlcabal.org/svn/pu​gs/view/src/perl6/js/README  it builds with gcc on several platforms/architectures
19:28 diakopter also msvc++
19:28 diakopter sorry g++
19:29 cognominal why the python requirement?
19:29 diakopter v8 uses scons to build..
19:30 cognominal that's like the cons a make in Perl I read in TPJ a long time ago?
19:31 syntheticore rakudo: class Bar {
19:31 syntheticore has %!foo;
19:31 syntheticore
19:31 syntheticore method blub {
19:31 syntheticore %!foo = { 1 => 2, 3 => 4 };
19:31 syntheticore say "init";
19:31 phenny syntheticore: 04 Sep 02:28Z <TimToady> tell syntheticore sets should be defined in terms of === so that sets of objects work; === should autothread; === is defined as $x.WHICH eqv $y.WHICH to compare identity
19:31 syntheticore say %!foo.{1};
19:31 p6eval rakudo 4b141a: OUTPUT«Unable to parse block; couldn't find final '}' at line 2, near ""␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)␤»
19:31 syntheticore }
19:31 syntheticore method postcircumfix:<{ }> ( $key ) {
19:31 syntheticore say "postcircumfix";
19:31 syntheticore say %!foo.perl;
19:31 syntheticore }
19:31 syntheticore }
19:31 syntheticore Bar.new.blub;
19:31 diakopter oo
19:32 diakopter cognominal: I don't know
19:33 syntheticore can somebody tell me why the above doesn work?
19:33 diakopter on irc? b/c it's more than 1 line
19:33 syntheticore <{}> gets called after init and i get this: No such attribute '%!foo'
19:34 syntheticore sorry
19:34 diakopter try http://paste.lisp.org/new/perl6
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19:35 azawawi hi
19:35 syntheticore thnx
19:36 azawawi moritz_: here is the final thing http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/six_updater.png , I am going to blog about it in the morning.
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19:39 lisppaste3 syntheticore pasted "wrong postcircumfix method called?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/87292
19:43 syntheticore joined #perl6
20:22 TimToady syntheticore: you call it as %!foo.{}, which is not the same as self.{}
20:23 syntheticore TimToady: exactly
20:24 syntheticore so I think my own implementation of {} shouldn't even be called, as I mean the Hash method with this
20:24 TimToady I agree
20:25 syntheticore nice ;)
20:25 moritz_ rakudobug@perl.org for bug reports
20:25 TimToady oh, wait...
20:25 * moritz_ hasn't really been paying attention
20:25 syntheticore so how can I work around this for the moment? Not use the operator at all?
20:26 TimToady %!foo()() should work
20:26 TimToady er, try %!foo().{}
20:27 TimToady nope, but at least a different error
20:27 syntheticore => invoke() not implemented in class 'Hash'
20:28 TimToady well, at least we know it knows it's a Hash now...
20:28 syntheticore say $!foo.perl in the postcircumfix method also fails with "No such attribute '%!foo'"
20:29 syntheticore so it seems the operator is not seen as a real method right now
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20:30 TimToady well, it's simply dispatching to the wrong routine somehow
20:32 syntheticore ok, I guess I'll just use a regular method instead for now
20:33 TimToady if you declare $self explicilty as Bar it just fails when it calls the wrong routine
20:34 TimToady oh, here's sort of a workaround
20:34 TimToady make it: class Bar does Associative {...}
20:34 TimToady you get a warning, but the right answer
20:37 syntheticore hmm, doesn't work for me..
20:37 syntheticore same result
20:38 syntheticore incidentally, the real code where this happens already uses "does Associative"
20:39 TimToady oh, I also have it %!foo{1} without hte .
20:39 TimToady strange
20:40 TimToady it's possible that it's getting mixed up with %!foo() notation somehow too
20:41 TimToady but it'll probably take jnthn++ or pmichaud++ to chase it down
20:41 TimToady in any case, definitely a bug
20:41 syntheticore yeah, I'm getting that feeling too ;)
20:41 TimToady syntheticore++
20:42 syntheticore another question:  How is the syntax for set operations supposed to work: && and ||, AND and OR, something entirely different?
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20:51 TimToady pugs/ext/Set/lib/Set.pm seems to have some notions about that, though maybe we'd have ASCII workarounds for the Unicode challenged
20:52 TimToady I think we'd also at one time discussed (+) (*) (-) and such as ASCII set op
20:53 TimToady ops
21:00 syntheticore thanks, I'll have a look at that tomorrow, have to leave now unfortunately
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23:41 diakopter would anyone like to write a test driver/harness against the spectests for vijs?
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