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| 00:10 | pugs_svn | r28333 | ruoso++ | [S08] adding two more sections |
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| 01:28 | pugs_svn | r28334 | lwall++ | [S02] clarification of run-time-ish nature of (* * *) requested by JimmyZ++ |
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| 02:04 | * carlin | is trying and failing to get Hurd to boot |
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| 03:08 | * carlin | gives up. I wonder what Minix is like ... |
| 03:14 | * araujo | has not tried Hurd for long time now |
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| 07:21 | moritz_ | good morning lambdabutterflies |
| 07:27 | Tene | morning. :) |
| 07:28 | JimmyZ | moritz_: morning. |
| 07:29 | iblechbot joined #perl6 | |
| 07:33 | viklund | good morning |
| 07:33 | moritz_: I fixed the install-deps bug an hour ago... | |
| 07:33 | moritz_ | viklund++ |
| 07:35 | * moritz_ | sshs to his home computer to test it |
| 07:36 | viklund | ;) |
| 07:37 | moritz_ | charms like a wok |
| 07:37 | erm ... | |
| 07:37 | :-) | |
| 07:37 | viklund | :p |
| 07:38 | moritz_ | does proto try private clone URLs first? |
| 07:38 | (from github, that is) | |
| 07:38 | I'm wondering because it asks for the passphrase of my ssh key a few times | |
| 07:38 | meppl joined #perl6 | |
| 07:39 | viklund | that should depend on the config file |
| 07:40 | ahh, but that isn't honored | |
| 07:40 | so I guess it tries the private url first | |
| 07:42 | line 323 of lib/Installer.pm | |
| 07:44 | moritz_ | anyway, viklund++, mberends++, masak++ for proto |
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| 07:47 | viklund | :) |
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| 07:50 | moritz_ | building http-daemon fails because of an old PARROT_DIR |
| 07:51 | I guess some projects need to update to the new scheme | |
| 07:52 | viklund | yes, november is one of them |
| 07:54 | nbrown__ joined #perl6 | |
| 07:58 | jnthn | oh hai |
| 08:00 | moritz_ | \o/ |
| 08:01 | http://smolder.plusthree.com/a[…]/smoke_reports/18 rakudo can haz smoke reports | |
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| 08:03 | dalek | rakudo: adddb73 | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION: |
| 08:03 | rakudo: bump PARROT_REVISION to a post-1.6.0 revision to get some testing | |
| 08:03 | rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakud[…]cdd8e5aed6c2443f0 | |
| 08:03 | rakudo: 836c8c8 | moritz++ | (2 files): | |
| 08:03 | rakudo: mention spectest_smolder in README and ChangeLog | |
| 08:03 | rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakud[…]7461b3c769be7315e | |
| 08:04 | jnthn | moritz_: Great! |
| 08:06 | moritz_ | jdv79++ |
| 08:19 | Matt-W | Good morning! |
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| 08:41 | masak joined #perl6 | |
| 08:41 | viklund | o/ masak |
| 08:41 | masak | good late morning! |
| 08:42 | JimmyZ | masak: good morning. |
| 08:42 | masak | JimmyZ: 早上好 |
| 08:43 | JimmyZ | masak: 早上好，天气怎么样。 |
| 08:43 | masak: 我们这里下雷电雨。 ;) | |
| 08:44 | masak | thunderstorm, eh? |
| 08:45 | Matt-W | Wow! I actually have the fonts for that! |
| 08:45 | * moritz_ | just opened two proto tickets |
| 08:45 | * viklund | goes and looks |
| 08:45 | * masak | follows |
| 08:46 | moritz_ | for the second I awesomeified the error message a bit |
| 08:46 | before it used to say 'unknown home type' | |
| 08:46 | which wasn't all that informative | |
| 08:46 | viklund | ok |
| 08:47 | masak | I plan to become a user of that branch shortly as well. |
| 08:47 | it looks very promising. | |
| 08:48 | moritz_ | indeed |
| 08:48 | it mostly worked for me so far | |
| 08:50 | masak | mberends++ viklund++ |
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| 08:50 | masak | I've been very much on the sidelines of that refactor. |
| 08:55 | JimmyZ | masak: yep |
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| 09:14 | cognominal | moritz_, if in rebuild-rakudo, within the blizkost build, you put the "make clean" after the "Configure.pl", the build will exectue correctly when an pmc is modified. |
| 09:14 | moritz_ | cognominal: care to patch that? |
| 09:14 | I hope you have commit access to the pugs repo? | |
| 09:15 | viklund | masak: suggestion, make Ecosystem a factory for Projects |
| 09:15 | which knows about their files and states | |
| 09:15 | cognominal | moritz_, I don't how to test the build on feather |
| 09:16 | masak | viklund: interesting. right now Ecosystem is a way to introspect projects, nothing more. |
| 09:16 | moritz_ | cognominal: you don't have to - if something goes wrong with the build I'll notice :-) |
| 09:16 | M_o_C joined #perl6 | |
| 09:16 | viklund | it felt natural to have it like that when I did some stuff y-day |
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| 09:17 | masak | viklund: permission < forgiveness |
| 09:17 | viklund | masak: :) |
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| 11:03 | masak | rakudo: class A {}; role B is A {}; class C does B {} |
| 11:03 | p6eval | rakudo 836c8c: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_string()in sub trait_mod:is (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)called from sub trait_mod:does (/tmp/X9CyIhINZ0:2)called from Main (/tmp/X9CyIhINZ0:2)» |
| 11:03 | masak | mwhahaha. |
| 11:03 | * masak | submits rakudobug |
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| 11:07 | moritz_ | can a role inherit from a class? |
| 11:08 | masak | according to A12, yes. |
| 11:08 | I'm just explaining what it means in the bug ticket. | |
| 11:08 | moritz_ | A12 is... slightly dusty |
| 11:08 | masak | whatever. it's a Null PMC access :P |
| 11:08 | moritz_ | aye :-) |
| 11:09 | anyway, it would make sense to me if you were able to unpun a class into a role somehow :-) | |
| 11:09 | masak | that's not what happens according to A12, methinks. |
| 11:09 | it's more like a delayed inheritence. | |
| 11:09 | moritz_ | I wasn't implying it either |
| 11:10 | masak | C ends up inheriting from A. the role B is just making sure it does. |
| 11:10 | for some reason, it looks more sane when the 'is A;' is written as a statement within B. but we don't support that syntax yet. | |
| 11:11 | moritz_ | so isa_ok(C, A, 'fooo'); |
| 11:11 | ah, right | |
| 11:11 | because it's just a composition directive that's also mixed into C at composition time | |
| 11:12 | masak | indeed. |
| 11:13 | moritz_ | I'm toying with the idea of moving the synopsis from perlcabal.org to perl6.org |
| 11:13 | but it feels slightly maniac | |
| 11:13 | "never change a running system" and all | |
| 11:14 | "The management of complexity is complex, but only if you think about it." | |
| 11:16 | diakopter | heh |
| 11:17 | moritz_: subs/blocks/return? | |
| 11:18 | (should vijs implement next) | |
| 11:18 | cognominal | moving stuff out of the pugs repository is not a bad idea. People thinks pugs is dead so don't look in that repository |
| 11:19 | moritz_ | cognominal: I'm not thinking about moving the source, but the rendered HTML |
| 11:19 | * diakopter | thinks moritz_ meant moving the website only |
| 11:19 | moritz_ | diakopter: good idea (thought correct 'return' is surprisingly trick) |
| 11:19 | s/thought/though/ | |
| 11:19 | diakopter | moritz_: how trick |
| 11:21 | moritz_ | well, it throws a control exception that can be caught, but that's still tied to the lexically surrounding routine |
| 11:21 | we have loads of tests for that | |
| 11:21 | but... a simple return might do very well for now | |
| 11:21 | diakopter | remember vijs is stackless, so its frames are virtual |
| 11:22 | anything like that can be trivially emulated, with the understanding that it'll be performance costly. :D | |
| 11:23 | aka SLOW | |
| 11:23 | writing slow interpreters is fun | |
| 11:26 | someone needs to design a language named SLOW | |
| 11:26 | moritz_ | and write a fast compiler for it :-) |
| 11:26 | diakopter | with a name like that, it's certain not to disappoint! |
| 11:27 | TiMBuS | they should have named C++ 'regret' |
| 11:27 | 'in hindsight...' | |
| 11:29 | diakopter | perl6: say 3; |
| 11:29 | p6eval | elf 28334, pugs, rakudo 836c8c: OUTPUT«3» |
| 11:29 | moritz_ | wow, there's a program for which all three agree? |
| 11:29 | Matt-W | yes |
| 11:29 | diakopter | moritz_: have you considered upgrading pugs on p6eval to the latest hackage release? |
| 11:29 | Matt-W | evidently |
| 11:30 | diakopter | (I'm assuming it's not already) |
| 11:31 | moritz_ | diakopter: I think it is (not sure though) |
| 11:31 | pugs: say $?PUGS_REVISION | |
| 11:31 | p6eval | pugs: OUTPUT«*** Undeclared variable: ("$?PUGS_REVISION",MkPad (padToList [("$_",PELexical {pe_type = (mkType "Scalar"), pe_proto = <Scalar:0xb6520821>, pe_flags = MkEntryFlags {ef_isContext = True}, pe_store = <ref:0xb652d07d>}),("@_",PELexical {pe_type = (mkType "Array"), pe_proto = <Array:0x… |
| 11:31 | moritz_ | pugs: say $?PUGS_VERSION |
| 11:31 | p6eval | pugs: OUTPUT«Perl6 User's Golfing System, version 6.2.13.11, July 31, 2008 (r20996)» |
| 11:32 | moritz_ | uhm, it's nto |
| 11:32 | diakopter | 6.2.13.14 |
| 11:32 | moritz_ | aye |
| 11:32 | diakopter | I read somewhere audreyt saying that the later ones process the test suite in several minutes instead of hours |
| 11:33 | moritz_ | now if only she continued development... |
| 11:35 | trying now if a simple 'cabal update && cabal upgrade' works | |
| 11:35 | diakopter | needs cabal 1.2 |
| 11:36 | moritz_ | cabal-install version 0.5.1 |
| 11:36 | using version 1.4.0.1 of the Cabal library | |
| 11:36 | is that 1.2 enough? :-) | |
| 11:36 | diakopter | dunno |
| 11:36 | * masak | loves the error messages from cabal |
| 11:38 | moritz_ | it's been "Resolving dependencies..." for five minutes now |
| 11:38 | we've found one thing where proto is faster, it seems :-) | |
| 11:40 | masak | "fast but wrong" |
| 11:40 | moritz_ | a program that doesn't terminate (but should) is also wrong. |
| 11:40 | viklund | fail early! |
| 11:41 | diakopter | moritz_: or is just too slow. |
| 11:41 | moritz_ | I killed it after it needed 1GB of RAM |
| 11:42 | diakopter | remove cabal and everything and install fresh? |
| 11:43 | moritz_ | well, no. |
| 11:43 | that's going to take ages | |
| 11:43 | diakopter | heh |
| 11:43 | moritz_ | and I don't know if I have to upgrade GHC in the process |
| 11:43 | diakopter | 6.10.1 |
| 11:43 | moritz_ | which is not funny[tm] on debian stable |
| 11:43 | Student joined #perl6 | |
| 11:43 | moritz_ | ii ghc6 6.8.2dfsg1-1 GHC - the Glasgow Haskell Compilation system |
| 11:43 | diakopter | o |
| 11:44 | moritz_ | there's also a /usr/local/bin/ghc-6.10.1 |
| 11:45 | * diakopter | looks at visudo |
| 11:45 | moritz_ | not sure if it's worth the trouble |
| 11:45 | iblechbot joined #perl6 | |
| 11:50 | pmurias | moritz_: use the latest cabal (cabal-install) |
| 11:51 | moritz_: in my (very limited) experience updating cabal fixes strange errors | |
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| 12:17 | masak | std: RR+ |
| 12:17 | p6eval | std 28334: OUTPUT«===[0mSORRY!===[0mConfused at /tmp/b6It6RqQtS line 1 (EOF):------> RR+⏏<EOL> expecting any of: noun prefix or noun standard stopper term terminator whitespaceUndeclared name: RR used at 1,1FAILED 00:03 40m» |
| 12:18 | masak | std: 4 RR+ 2 |
| 12:18 | p6eval | std 28334: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 37m» |
| 12:20 | abbe joined #perl6 | |
| 12:20 | masak | moritz_: in the last paragraph of http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/per[…]eptions.writeback : s/loosing/losing/ - otherwise, great post. |
| 12:20 | abbe | hi all |
| 12:20 | masak | abbe: hey there! |
| 12:20 | abbe | hi masak. |
| 12:21 | anyone running FreeBSD and interested in trying out Rakudo, please check out PRs: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=139012 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=139010 | |
| 12:23 | PZt joined #perl6 | |
| 12:25 | mikehh | rakudo (836c8c8) builds on parrot r41400 - make test / make spectest (up to 28334) PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 |
| 12:26 | Grrrr | abbe: the trick with USE_PARROT and ../parrot/Makefile.parrot seems overly complex; what's wrong with just using the explicit dependencies in the rakudo port itself? |
| 12:27 | abbe | Grrrr, because, I don't want to update rakudo when parrot gets updated and the only change the port needs is the change in pathnames. |
| 12:28 | s/and the only change the port/, and when the only change, rakudo port/ | |
| 12:29 | Grrrr | maybe it should be handled by not making the parrot libdir version-specific; there are not currently many (to put it mildly) ports that depend on parrot in the tree |
| 12:30 | abbe | Grrrr, and I think this is the way to tackle language ports dependent on parrot. |
| 12:30 | Grrrr | eventually, yes, but once there is a non-trivial number of ports requring parrot it should really go into Mk/ |
| 12:38 | JimmyZ joined #perl6 | |
| 12:39 | pmurias | diakopter: re subs/blocks/returns subs require blocks and return requires both |
| 12:39 | diakopter | requires both what |
| 12:40 | pmurias | both subs and blocks |
| 12:40 | diakopter | oh, I meant do all of them, or something else |
| 12:41 | shachaf joined #perl6 | |
| 12:41 | pmurias | you don't need control exceptions early on |
| 12:42 | you can use implicit return sub plus_one($foo) {$foo+2} | |
| 12:44 | diakopter | I agree |
| 12:49 | snearch joined #perl6 | |
| 12:51 | masak | http://perl6.ru/fast-p6c/ http://perl6.ru/p6c -- this looks interesing. |
| 12:52 | Matt-W | masak: All rules have exceptions |
| 12:53 | masak | Matt-W: sure, but it's one thing saying that, and another to experience it. |
| 12:53 | Matt-W | True |
| 12:54 | Which rule triggered your tweet? | |
| 12:54 | masak | I'm at $WORK, coding Java. |
| 12:54 | I just realized that my view of promoting expressions into local variables has changed a lot. | |
| 12:55 | previously, I'd hesitate to do it unless and until I'd need it twice somewhere. | |
| 12:56 | nowadays, I'll gladly do it if it gives the expression a descriptive name. | |
| 12:56 | even if I subsequently only use it once. | |
| 12:58 | Matt-W | mmm |
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| 13:15 | masak | perl6: class A { method foo() { say "A" } }; class B { method foo() { say "B" } }; class C is A is B { method foo() { if Bool.pick { self.A::foo } else { self.B::foo } } }; C.new.foo for ^5 |
| 13:15 | p6eval | rakudo 836c8c: OUTPUT«ABBBB» |
| 13:15 | ..elf 28334: OUTPUT«Undefined subroutine &GLOBAL::prefix__94 called at (eval 140) line 31. at ./elf_h line 5881» | |
| 13:15 | ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** pick not defined: VType (mkType "Bool") at /tmp/kUL6zARjv7 line 1, column 115-125» | |
| 13:15 | masak | rakudo++ |
| 13:18 | zpmorgan joined #perl6 | |
| 13:18 | SmokeMachine joined #perl6 | |
| 13:23 | jnthn | Meh. The wifi only works if I'm sat in the least comfortable bit of the hotel room. Fail. :-/ |
| 13:24 | masak | lolitsjnthn |
| 13:24 | rakudo: class A { method foo() { say "A" } }; class B {}; my $b = B.new; $b.A::foo | |
| 13:25 | p6eval | rakudo 836c8c: OUTPUT«A» |
| 13:25 | masak | o.O |
| 13:25 | I bet it's possible to do something evil with that... | |
| 13:26 | Matt-W | jnthn: jammed between the side of the dressing table and the wastepaper bin? |
| 13:26 | masak | rakudo: class A { has $!x; method foo() { say $!x } }; class B { has $!x = 42; }; my $b = B.new; $b.A::foo |
| 13:26 | p6eval | rakudo 836c8c: OUTPUT«42» |
| 13:26 | jnthn | masak: yeah, I'll get it is ;-) |
| 13:26 | masak | bye-bye, encapsulation. |
| 13:27 | jnthn | masak: huh? You called a publicly visible method |
| 13:27 | moritz_ | outch |
| 13:27 | jnthn | masak: You didn't break encapsulation at all. |
| 13:27 | :-P | |
| 13:27 | masak | jnthn: we need to agree to disagree on that, I fear. |
| 13:27 | jnthn | Matt-W: Actually sat in the doorway. |
| 13:27 | Matt-W: Which bit? | |
| 13:27 | erm, last one was for masak | |
| 13:28 | masak | jnthn: whether it breaks encapsulation at all. |
| 13:28 | Matt-W | jnthn: hmm not good, but could be worse, you could have to stand on the toilet and hold the laptop near the ceiling |
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| 13:28 | jnthn | Matt-W: That would be rather crap, yes. |
| 13:28 | masak: How does it break encapsulation? | |
| 13:28 | masak | jnthn: I managed to use the A class to print a private attribute of a B object. that's encapsulation breakage in my book. |
| 13:29 | jnthn | masak: oh, wait, I see what you mean |
| 13:29 | masak: erm | |
| 13:29 | masak | thought so. :) |
| 13:29 | jnthn | masak: rakudo bug. |
| 13:29 | * masak | submits |
| 13:29 | jnthn | masak: It should'a given you the $!x from A. |
| 13:29 | masak | aye. |
| 13:29 | jnthn | I can't believe I've not be badgered enough about that one before now to fix it. |
| 13:29 | * masak | badgers jnthn a little |
| 13:29 | jnthn | Anyway, with the correct semantics, do we agree it's not breaking encapsulation? :-) |
| 13:30 | * jnthn | mushrooms |
| 13:30 | masak | jnthn: with the correct semantics, pigs can fly. |
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| 13:30 | masak | jnthn: AAAH SNAKE! |
| 13:30 | moritz_ | if it works as specced, IMHO it doesn't break encapsulation |
| 13:30 | masak | nod. |
| 13:31 | Matt-W | It should just print the A instance's $!x |
| 13:31 | which wouldn't break encapsulation | |
| 13:31 | moritz_ | aye |
| 13:31 | masak | right. |
| 13:31 | jnthn | OK, we're agreeing. |
| 13:31 | Now Rakudo just needs beating into agreement too. :-) | |
| 13:33 | moritz_ | and tests. |
| 13:33 | jnthn | I'm sure we already have some failings for that. |
| 13:34 | I hope so, anyways... | |
| 13:34 | dalek | rakudo: 0eaf628 | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in: |
| 13:34 | rakudo: unbreak the whitespaces in Makefile.in (spaces -> tabs) | |
| 13:34 | rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakud[…]8c80d92a2f7e83acc | |
| 13:34 | masak | wait a minute. |
| 13:35 | how could it have given me the $!x from A? | |
| 13:35 | the classes do not inherit from each other. | |
| 13:35 | jnthn | masak: oh |
| 13:35 | masak: In that case it'll try and explode. | |
| 13:35 | masak | I agree. |
| 13:36 | jnthn | Evidnetly, I didn't really read the example before commenting on it. ;-) |
| 13:36 | masak | I must admit to not thinking it through enough either. |
| 13:37 | jnthn | :-) |
| 13:37 | eh, thinking is overrated | |
| 13:37 | masak | but that's actually two bugs, then. |
| 13:38 | jnthn | well, it's the same underlying issue |
| 13:39 | * masak | pretends not to hear that |
| 13:39 | masak | two tickets coming up! |
| 13:40 | jnthn | :-P |
| 13:45 | OK, this is getting uncomfy...time to go be comfortable (and lose wifi). | |
| 13:45 | o/ | |
| 13:45 | masak | \o |
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| 13:55 | finanalyst joined #perl6 | |
| 13:56 | finanalyst | hello everyone. |
| 13:56 | is there a way implemented allowing me to enquire which files exist in a directory? | |
| 13:57 | masak | in Rakudo? don't think so. |
| 13:58 | finanalyst | in rakudo |
| 13:58 | masak | most of us use platform-dependent ways to do that right now. |
| 13:58 | finanalyst | i use ubuntu linux |
| 13:59 | i dont need a portable technique | |
| 13:59 | i'm getting to prefer perl6 over perl5 for things | |
| 13:59 | masak | well then, check out qx[] and qqx[] |
| 13:59 | they're the new spelling of `` | |
| 14:00 | finanalyst | how do i get response back into the program? |
| 14:00 | masak | the output will be the value of that expression. |
| 14:00 | just like with `` | |
| 14:01 | finanalyst | so that would be $x=qx[ls /path/] ? |
| 14:01 | masak | something like that, yes. |
| 14:01 | finanalyst | oh it works! |
| 14:01 | great. thanx | |
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| 14:03 | masak | np. |
| 14:03 | takadonet | morning all |
| 14:04 | masak | takadonet: o/ |
| 14:04 | Matt-W | o/ |
| 14:05 | alester joined #perl6 | |
| 14:14 | masak | rakudo: class A { has $!a = 42 }; class B is A { has $!b = $!a + 1 }; class C is B { has $.c = $!b + 1 }; say C.new.c |
| 14:14 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«44» |
| 14:14 | masak | cool! |
| 14:16 | PacoLinux joined #perl6 | |
| 14:16 | KyleHa joined #perl6 | |
| 14:19 | ejs joined #perl6 | |
| 14:35 | jferrero joined #perl6 | |
| 14:35 | pmurias | diakopter: why did you write to ToJS instead of using a JSON module? |
| 14:35 | diakopter | pmurias: b/c none of the JSON modules supported trees with multiple refs to the same object |
| 14:35 | (and JSON doesn't support that either anyway) | |
| 14:36 | pmurias | good reason ;) |
| 14:37 | Psyche^ joined #perl6 | |
| 14:38 | araujo | morning |
| 14:38 | masak | o/ |
| 14:38 | nihiliad joined #perl6 | |
| 14:39 | diakopter | pmurias: and I couldn't find a yaml parser in JS |
| 14:40 | anyway, ToJS is several times faster than YAML::XS | |
| 14:40 | fwict | |
| 14:40 | :) | |
| 14:46 | carlin | rakudo: multi infix:<^> {}; |
| 14:46 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«push_pmc() not implemented in class 'Sub'» |
| 14:46 | dukeleto joined #perl6 | |
| 14:47 | masak | and he's back! :) |
| 14:48 | pmurias | diakopter: are you using any V8 specific features? i'm trying to make vivjs emit normal js and when firefox runs it i get a Type quote__S_Double_Double not found! undefined exception |
| 14:49 | diakopter | pmurias: interesting.. |
| 14:49 | it should work | |
| 14:50 | you'd need to implement say_them(){} | |
| 14:50 | since that's injected into the V8 context by Perl | |
| 14:50 | pmurias | already noop'ed it for now |
| 14:51 | crythias joined #perl6 | |
| 14:51 | diakopter | can I see what you've created |
| 14:52 | pmurias | wait a bit |
| 14:53 | pmichaud | good morning, #perl6 |
| 14:53 | diakopter | 'lo |
| 14:53 | TimToady | ______ |
| 14:53 | NorwayGeek joined #perl6 | |
| 14:53 | TimToady | (puddle of slime waving) |
| 14:54 | masak | morning, Usonians. |
| 14:54 | TimToady | you're having us on |
| 14:55 | JimmyZ | good morning, pmichaud :) |
| 14:55 | masak | TimToady: maybe a little. |
| 14:56 | TimToady | before the coffee hits, it's impossible for me to be on more than a little |
| 14:57 | zloyrusskiy joined #perl6 | |
| 14:57 | TimToady | on the other hand, it's the time of day when I'm most dangerously free-associative |
| 14:57 | probably excipient dream-state | |
| 14:58 | masak | it didn't know it comes and goes. |
| 14:58 | * TimToady | hops excipient means the opposite of incipient |
| 14:58 | TimToady | *hopes |
| 14:58 | pugs_svn | r28335 | pmurias++ | remove bitroten profiling support |
| 14:58 | carlin | rakudo: sub bar { CATCH {}; }; say bar; |
| 14:58 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in type()in Main (/tmp/uAIj0RrPax:2)» |
| 14:58 | pugs_svn | r28336 | pmurias++ | [vivjs] an experimental viv --jsx option |
| 14:59 | masak | http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/excipient |
| 14:59 | carlin: I think that one is known. | |
| 14:59 | NorwayGeek joined #perl6 | |
| 14:59 | carlin | masak: ah, okay |
| 15:00 | masak | not 100% sure, though. but I think I saw someone RT-report it. |
| 15:00 | TimToady | so why does it show incipient as a related term then, I wonder... |
| 15:02 | NorwayGeek joined #perl6 | |
| 15:04 | pugs_svn | r28337 | pmurias++ | [vivjs] fix error |
| 15:04 | pmurias | diakopter: say 1 should work with --jsx |
| 15:05 | JimmyZ | vivjs? |
| 15:05 | diakopter | vijs is what I've been calling it, but I think that's name is temporary |
| 15:05 | that name | |
| 15:06 | or that's, I guess. | |
| 15:12 | Woodi | hi all; rakudo.org/status say only open works for IO... but it can write with :w at least ? |
| 15:12 | masak | Woodi: it can. |
| 15:12 | huf | which bit should i read if i want to know how to define the precedence levels of new operators? |
| 15:13 | moritz_ | S03 |
| 15:13 | or S06 | |
| 15:13 | huf | thanks |
| 15:13 | moritz_ | but it's NYI in Rakudo (for custom operators) |
| 15:14 | Woodi | how about modules ? some included/downloadable or loadable ? |
| 15:15 | moritz_ | Woodi: proto (<http://github.com/masak/proto/>) know about some modules, and in a branch it can download them too |
| 15:15 | masak | actually, it can download them in master as well. |
| 15:16 | Woodi | proto is another p6 implementation ? :) |
| 15:16 | moritz_ | no, it's a module installer |
| 15:16 | TimToady | it's also a desert wax and a floor topping |
| 15:16 | *dessert | |
| 15:16 | Woodi | ah, k. thank you |
| 15:17 | TimToady: means some additional funcionality or easter eggs ? :) | |
| 15:17 | diakopter | also a hobbit name |
| 15:17 | TimToady | I meant that the term "proto" is heavily overloaded :) |
| 15:18 | * TimToady | ignores diakopter's ravings |
| 15:19 | Woodi | ok, so rakudo is considered working language now :) |
| 15:19 | TimToady | though we did get rid of the term "protoobject" |
| 15:19 | define "work" | |
| 15:19 | masak | Woodi: Rakudo has a lot of things that work nowadays, yes. you'd be surprised. |
| 15:20 | TimToady | it could be regarded as Turing complete |
| 15:20 | mdxi | "And so Proto Paggins and Ram Hamgee left the Whire under cover of darkness, pursued by the Bazgul, though they knew it not." |
| 15:20 | masak | for some reason, that feels like small comfort. |
| 15:20 | Woodi | not "sandboxed" calculations that disappear when process stops |
| 15:20 | masak | Woodi: sounds like the Rakudo REPL to me. :) |
| 15:20 | TimToady | You can't fool me, I know the real hobbit was named Frito |
| 15:21 | masak | wait, aren't you bored of that subject yet? |
| 15:21 | TimToady | Woodi: rakudo has I/O, so the calculations don't need to disappear |
| 15:22 | rakudo: say [*] 1..10 | |
| 15:22 | masak | rakudo: class TheOneRing { method new { self } }; say TheOneRing.new === TheOneRing.new |
| 15:22 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«3628800» |
| 15:22 | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«1» | |
| 15:22 | TimToady | there, now that calculation is recorded in the IRC log |
| 15:23 | masak: that's...wrong | |
| 15:23 | moritz_ | no, it's not |
| 15:23 | TimToady | oh, wait |
| 15:23 | Woodi | yes, but using expect for results isn't productive i think :) |
| 15:23 | moritz_ | .new doesn't return a new instance |
| 15:23 | TimToady | I see how you did it |
| 15:23 | moritz_ | it returns the type object |
| 15:23 | masak | :) |
| 15:24 | TimToady | fortunately, it also returns something undefined |
| 15:24 | JimmyZ | rakudo: ( [*] 1..( -> $_ { $_ ** } )(20)).say; |
| 15:24 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "** } )(20)"in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)» |
| 15:24 | JimmyZ | rakudo: ( [*] 1..( -> $_ { $_ ** 2 } )(20)).say; |
| 15:24 | masak | rakudo: class TheOneRing { method new { self }; method defined { True } }; say TheOneRing.new === TheOneRing.new; say TheOneRing.defined |
| 15:24 | diakopter | rakudo: say defined self |
| 15:24 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Lexical 'self' not found» |
| 15:24 | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Inf» | |
| 15:24 | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«10» | |
| 15:25 | masak | dang. |
| 15:25 | JimmyZ | rakudo: ( [*] 1..( -> $_ { $_ ** 2 } )(5)).say; |
| 15:25 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«1.5511210043331e+25» |
| 15:25 | JimmyZ | wow |
| 15:25 | diakopter | does rakudo have bigint |
| 15:25 | TimToady | Woodi: it could be argued that putting things up on webpages is also relatively useless :P |
| 15:25 | masak | diakopter: nope. |
| 15:25 | JimmyZ | rakudo: ( [*] 1..( -> $_ { $_ ** 2 } )(7)).say; |
| 15:25 | * diakopter | hurries |
| 15:25 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«6.08281864034268e+62» |
| 15:26 | JimmyZ | rakudo: ( [*] 1..( -> $_ { $_ ** 2 } )(8)).say; |
| 15:26 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«1.26886932185884e+89» |
| 15:26 | JimmyZ | rakudo: ( [*] 1..( -> $_ { $_ ** 2 } )(9)).say; |
| 15:26 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«5.79712602074737e+120» |
| 15:26 | Woodi | right, so many pages... |
| 15:26 | JimmyZ | rakudo: ( [*] 1..( -> $_ { $_ ** 2 } )(10)).say; |
| 15:26 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«9.33262154439441e+157» |
| 15:27 | JimmyZ | not Inf now. |
| 15:28 | Woodi | visual studio have so many pages that i make break after finding that vs2008 include sqlite replacement by default |
| 15:28 | masak | rakudo: class A { method defined { True } }; say A.defined |
| 15:28 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«0» |
| 15:28 | diakopter | rakudo: my $a=10**308; say $a; say 10*$a; |
| 15:28 | masak | 0? how does Rakudo figure that? |
| 15:28 | Woodi | any DBI in rakudo ? |
| 15:28 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«1e+308Inf» |
| 15:28 | masak | Woodi: working on it! |
| 15:29 | Woodi: well, sorta. | |
| 15:29 | moritz_ | also working on it |
| 15:29 | sorta | |
| 15:29 | TimToady | shower & |
| 15:29 | Woodi | can i work on it too ? mean use something in script ? :) |
| 15:29 | masak | Woodi: I'm porting Sequel -> Squerl http://sequel.rubyforge.org/ |
| 15:29 | Woodi: you're very welcome to try it out. | |
| 15:30 | JimmyZ | rakudo: class A { method defined { Bool:;True } }; say A.defined |
| 15:30 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near ":;True } }"in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)» |
| 15:30 | JimmyZ | rakudo: class A { method defined { Bool::True } }; say A.defined |
| 15:30 | masak | JimmyZ: ::, not ;; |
| 15:30 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«0» |
| 15:30 | JimmyZ | masak: yep |
| 15:30 | Woodi | masak: why you work on ORM when no DB yet ? :) |
| 15:30 | JimmyZ | rakudo: class A { method defined { Bool::True } }; say A.defined.perl |
| 15:30 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Bool::False» |
| 15:31 | masak | Woodi: Tene++ made a simple SQLite connection work. |
| 15:31 | diakopter | Made from an exclusive non-yellowing formula. |
| 15:31 | masak | Woodi: this already works: http://github.com/masak/web/bl[…]01-sqlite-write.t |
| 15:31 | JimmyZ | rakudo: class A { method defined { Bool::True } }; say (new A).defined.perl |
| 15:31 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub new» |
| 15:32 | masak | (though I cheat a lot right now) |
| 15:34 | JimmyZ | rakudo: ( [*] 1..(( $_ ~ '0' )(1).Int)).say; |
| 15:35 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized valueinvoke() not implemented in class 'Perl6Str'in Main (/tmp/0znqi6NH0Z:2)» |
| 15:35 | JimmyZ | rakudo: ( [*] 1..(( $_ ~ '0' )('1').Int)).say; |
| 15:35 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized valueinvoke() not implemented in class 'Perl6Str'in Main (/tmp/AdUGZsHwRY:2)» |
| 15:36 | Woodi | masak: squerl have something like ADO datasets ? |
| 15:36 | masak | what's that? |
| 15:37 | JimmyZ | rakudo: ( [*] 1..((( $_ ~ '0' )('1')).Int)).say; |
| 15:37 | masak | ah, some .NET technology. |
| 15:37 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized valueinvoke() not implemented in class 'Perl6Str'in Main (/tmp/to9PtDeVec:2)» |
| 15:37 | Woodi | just db-acces arhitecture |
| 15:38 | masak | well, I don't know how Squerl compares against ADO, but it does have a core class called Dataset. |
| 15:38 | Woodi | with easy way to connect to visible components |
| 15:38 | masak | I think of it as a lazy immutable way to formulate db queries. |
| 15:39 | JimmyZ | rakudo: ( [*] 1..((( * ~ '0' )('1')).Int)).say; |
| 15:39 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«invoke() not implemented in class 'Perl6Str'in Main (/tmp/47jT8sh4z1:2)» |
| 15:39 | Woodi | i found "use SQLite3;" in Squerl.pm. so there is sqlit3 native module in rakudo ? |
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| 15:40 | masak | for example, $db<countries>.filter(region => 'Middle East').reverse_order('area').limit(5).avg('GDP') would create the SQL statement 'SELECT avg(GDP) FROM countries WHERE region = 'Middle East' ORDER BY area DESC LIMIT 5' |
| 15:40 | Woodi | drop immutable pls :) |
| 15:40 | masak | Woodi: no, it can be downloaded from github as perl6-sqlite |
| 15:40 | Woodi: I'd love to hear your reasons to drop immutable. presently, that's one of the things I like about Sequel's Dataset. | |
| 15:41 | Woodi | i thinked that your atased is readonly memory array... |
| 15:41 | so why ro ? | |
| 15:41 | masak | no, it's more like a representation of what to search for. |
| 15:41 | Woodi | so how to update ? |
| 15:41 | masak | having it immutable means that you can use it several times for searches. |
| 15:42 | there are methods to update the tables, but they don't affect the Dataset object. | |
| 15:42 | (I sense that we might mean different things by 'Dataset', though) | |
| 15:42 | Woodi | no, i make s///g in my mind :) |
| 15:43 | your dataset is something like dataReader/dataROTable in other languages.. | |
| 15:43 | masak | you replace nothing with nothing globally? |
| 15:44 | diakopter | substitutions, generically, I'm sure |
| 15:44 | masak | ah. well, we all do. |
| 15:44 | Woodi | can you make dataset with update functionality ? look on it like some gui grid can just straight forward use it |
| 15:45 | masak | Woodi: actually, in the example code I sent you, there's a Dataset doing an update at line 18. http://github.com/masak/web/bl[…]01-sqlite-write.t |
| 15:45 | but maybe that's not what you mean. | |
| 15:46 | Woodi | sec |
| 15:46 | diakopter | pmurias: things with double quotes seem to work in my firefox? |
| 15:46 | Woodi | not iss just using db api. i talk about intermediate component |
| 15:47 | masak | Woodi: ok. then I think I'll need a bit more explanation. |
| 15:47 | Woodi | k |
| 15:47 | JimmyZ | std: ( [*] 1..((( * ~ '0' )('1')).Int)).say; |
| 15:47 | p6eval | std 28337: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 40m» |
| 15:48 | masak | rakudo: class A { method postcircumfix:<{ }>(*@things) { .say for @things } }; my $a = A.new; $a< OH HAI > |
| 15:48 | Woodi | you made dataser - object memory-array with is RO, right ? it is middleware betwin db api and programmer |
| 15:48 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«OHHAI» |
| 15:48 | masak | hey, overriding .{} does work! |
| 15:48 | how come .[] doesn't? | |
| 15:49 | Woodi: no, the Sequel Datasets are not object memory arrays. | |
| 15:49 | Woodi: they are just representations of a possible search. | |
| 15:49 | Woodi | masak: results in memory, read only |
| 15:49 | diakopter | pmurias: actually, no, got a js error, but entirely different from the one you reported |
| 15:49 | masak | Woodi: no. no results in memory. |
| 15:49 | diakopter | I have lots of local mods tho |
| 15:50 | masak | Woodi: it's more like an iterator, actually. |
| 15:50 | Woodi | shape does not matter, box, or line... |
| 15:50 | masak | I'm in design mode. from there it seems to matter a great lot. :) |
| 15:50 | but go on. | |
| 15:51 | Woodi | masak: it's memory structure so you can make lightwaight searches... |
| 15:51 | masak | rakudo: class A { method postcircumfix:<[ ]>(*@things) { .say for @things } }; my $a = A.new; $a["OH", "HAI"] |
| 15:51 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«OHHAI» |
| 15:52 | masak | hey, .[] works too! |
| 15:52 | Woodi | masak: with your own api |
| 15:52 | masak | Woodi: aye. |
| 15:52 | avuserow | rakudo: my $foo = [1, 2]; $foo.[0].print |
| 15:52 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«1» |
| 15:53 | Woodi | masak: so if someone will lern that new api he will need update methods in that new api |
| 15:53 | masak | Woodi: is that so? |
| 15:53 | Woodi | masak: no :) |
| 15:53 | masak | Woodi: or, alternatively, why isn't the .insert method I showed you an update method? |
| 15:53 | it updates the databse. | |
| 15:54 | Woodi | masak: you can advertise this like MS advertised ADO :) |
| 15:54 | masak | I'm sure I can. :) |
| 15:54 | Woodi | and advertise p6 in same time as a platworm for wery efective db programming :) |
| 15:55 | Chillance joined #perl6 | |
| 15:55 | Woodi | so look p6 is as production ready as C# :) |
| 15:56 | sqlite works, orm in place :0 | |
| 15:56 | masak | rakudo: sub foo($a) { say $a }; foo("OH", "HAI") |
| 15:56 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed (2) - 1 param expectedin sub foo (/tmp/bQxtEcsWRh:1)called from Main (/tmp/bQxtEcsWRh:2)» |
| 15:56 | masak | rakudo: class A { method postcircumfix:<[ ]>($a) { $a.say } }; my $a = A.new; $a["OH", "HAI"] |
| 15:56 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«OHHAI» |
| 15:56 | Woodi | just gui representation is absent |
| 15:56 | masak | hm, how come the latter works when the former doesn't? |
| 15:56 | Woodi: I'm glad you find so few things missing. :) | |
| 15:57 | pmichaud | masak: postcircumfix:<[ ]> is treated like a multi |
| 15:57 | Woodi | i found i can use p6 right now :) |
| 15:57 | masak | Woodi++ |
| 15:57 | Woodi | thanx again :) |
| 15:57 | masak | pmichaud: does that explain it? |
| 15:58 | Woodi: good luck, and keep in touch! | |
| 15:58 | pmichaud | masak: there's a fallback postcircumfix:<[ ]> that knows how to deal with lists, and converts it into single-scalar lookups |
| 15:58 | masak | aha. |
| 15:58 | pmichaud | otherwise anyone wanting to override postcircumfix:<[ ]> would also have to provide implementations for Lists, Ranges, Whatevers, etc. |
| 15:58 | masak | anyway, more already works than I though. that's good news. |
| 15:59 | s/though/thought/ | |
| 15:59 | diakopter | more works than I, too. |
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| 15:59 | pmichaud | we also have to deal with the odd case of wanting to do positional access on non-Rakudo objects, which don't have a "postcircumfix:<[ ]>" method. |
| 16:00 | masak | :) |
| 16:00 | whenever things seem too easy, bring HLL interoperability into the picture. :P | |
| 16:04 | Woodi | damn, googling for Tene++ just return page with our conversation... |
| 16:04 | masak | :) |
| 16:04 | his nick is just Tene. | |
| 16:04 | the two plusses are a way of showing appreciation around here. | |
| 16:04 | @karma Tene | |
| 16:04 | Woodi | ah, k |
| 16:04 | masak | ENOLAMBDABOT |
| 16:05 | movie & | |
| 16:07 | payload joined #perl6 | |
| 16:07 | Woodi | Curses works in p6 ? |
| 16:08 | no, p5 module | |
| 16:08 | justatheory joined #perl6 | |
| 16:09 | justatheory joined #perl6 | |
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| 16:35 | aharoni | rakudo: my @ita_pronouns = <la lo>; for (@ita_pronouns) {$_.say}; |
| 16:35 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«lalo» |
| 16:37 | aharoni | rakudo: my @ita_pronouns = <la lo>; if ('darlo' ~~ / @ita_pronouns /) { 'match' } else { say 'no match' }; |
| 16:37 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "ita_pronou"in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:3469)» |
| 16:37 | TimToady | std: my $a = 1; do { say $a; my $a = 2; say $a } |
| 16:37 | p6eval | std 28337: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 38m» |
| 16:38 | pmurias | diakopter: say 1 works in firefox |
| 16:38 | TimToady | std: my @ita_pronouns = <la lo>; if ('darlo' ~~ / @ita_pronouns /) { 'match' } else { say 'no match' }; |
| 16:38 | p6eval | std 28337: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 38m» |
| 16:41 | diakopter | pmurias: oh... say 2, say 3+1 # worked for me, but caught a JS error at the end |
| 16:42 | aharoni | Hi. I'm trying to use Perl 6 feature that turns an array into an alternation in a regex, e.g.: my @ita_pronouns = <la lo>; if ('darlo' ~~ / @ita_pronouns /) { 'match' }; . Am i trying it correctly? Is it supposed to work in Rakudo? |
| 16:42 | moritz_ | aharoni: it's not yet implemented in rakudo :( |
| 16:43 | pmurias | diakopter: does --js work fine? |
| 16:44 | aharoni | moritz: www.rakudo.org/status says that "variables in regexes" is one of the things that don't work. Is it a case of this problem? |
| 16:45 | moritz_ | aharoni: yes |
| 16:45 | aharoni: part of it, actually... | |
| 16:46 | there'a another syntax that doesn't work you | |
| 16:46 | rakudo: say 'la' ~~ / < li lo la > / | |
| 16:46 | p6eval | rakudo 0eaf62: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed (6) - 1 param expectedin regex PGE::Grammar::_block51 (/tmp/bDpbJBKwnw:1)called from Main (/tmp/bDpbJBKwnw:2)» |
| 16:47 | aharoni | moritz_: thanks |
| 16:47 | moritz_ | aharoni: you're welcome |
| 16:49 | Student joined #perl6 | |
| 16:57 | Tene | Woodi: Curses *does* work in P6. |
| 16:57 | Woodi: if you just want raw access to the curses functions, do: | |
| 16:57 | use Curses:from<parrot>; | |
| 16:57 | diakopter | pmichaud: does --gen-parrot build parrot --optimized |
| 16:58 | Tene | Woodi: If you want an OO interface to curses, I've got one I've been working on, so just ask me and I'll post it online. |
| 16:59 | pmichaud | diakopter: not by default, no |
| 16:59 | can do --gen-parrot-config=--optimized | |
| 17:00 | moritz_ | pmichaud: what about making it the default? |
| 17:01 | pmichaud | I'm not convinced that --optimized works on all platforms. For a long time it caused some platforms to segfault. |
| 17:01 | moritz_ | it did for amd64, but those are fixed by now |
| 17:02 | sjohnson | afternoon all |
| 17:02 | pmichaud | why doesn't parrot have it as the default, then? |
| 17:03 | moritz_ | no idea. |
| 17:03 | pmichaud | I'm inclined to do --optimized by default, but need to think about it a bit more. |
| 17:03 | how big a difference does it make? | |
| 17:03 | moritz_ | I've never measured it |
| 17:04 | pmichaud | I'll try it out later |
| 17:05 | PerlJam | good afternoon all |
| 17:05 | pmichaud | wb, PerlJam |
| 17:06 | cognominal | sorry asking a perl 5 question here, I am using Regexp::Grammars that has problems with lookahead. As a workourand I want to use a zero-wdth assertion. But I don't how to access the string on which the match opers within the regexp |
| 17:06 | finanalyst left #perl6 | |
| 17:07 | PerlJam | cognominal: email Damian :) |
| 17:08 | cognominal | for the problem with lookaheads I send a bug report. For my workaround, my question is independent of R::G |
| 17:08 | *sent | |
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| 17:11 | moritz_ | if you do ((?s:.*)) it's stored in $^N |
| 17:13 | (at least the rest, which should be enough for look-aheads) | |
| 17:14 | cognominal | thx, I was about do something like that |
| 17:15 | pugs_svn | r28338 | fglock++ | [mp6] Javascript runtime fixes, tests |
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| 17:28 | Tene | TimToady: any chance slurp() can get a list of files to read instead of just one? |
| 17:29 | so I can slurp(@files) instead of [~] .slurp for @files; | |
| 17:30 | ruoso | so slurp would get a slurpy parameter ;) |
| 17:30 | that's indeed a very reasonable request | |
| 17:30 | Tene | exactly! |
| 17:31 | PerlJam | Tene: you could update the spec to say so and ask forgiveness if anyone has a problem with it :) |
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| 17:40 | TimToady | Tene: you should update lines at the same time, but you'll need to make $limit into :$limit |
| 17:41 | and that'll break $handle.lines(5) | |
| 17:43 | probably worthwhile, it's not like $handle.lines(:limit(5)) will happen all that often | |
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| 18:01 | ruoso | TimToady, while you're around... have you seen my initial sketches on S08? |
| 18:01 | TimToady | not yet, waiting for things to settle down :) |
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| 18:08 | ruoso | TimToady, I think this initial part is settled... I'd prefer to have some feedback before going further |
| 18:09 | cognominal | ruoso, I did and found them very helpful. I had no idea what Parcel were |
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| 18:09 | cognominal | ruoso++ |
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| 18:57 | mberends | ruoso++: very readable S08. Just some small nits: 1. 36: "it" is ambiguous, say either "the runtime" or "the routine" 2. 48: "useful" spello 3. 51: s/on/of/ 4. 68: s/made/done/ 69: s/no matter/whether/ 70: s/In/For/ 80: s/in/for/ 115: s/nts/nts,/ 203: s/atly/ately/ These trivia aside, it's an excellent doc! |
| 18:57 | ruoso | mberends, thanks |
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| 19:01 | pmichaud | "@%" is a "capture sigil"? |
| 19:01 | or am I seeing that wrong in my browser. | |
| 19:01 | ? | |
| 19:01 | pugs_svn | r28339 | ruoso++ | [S08] small fixes by mberends++ |
| 19:01 | ruoso | yes, it's the thing that replaces @@ |
| 19:01 | pmichaud | I thought that @% already had a meaning |
| 19:02 | namely, @%foo would be a hash in list context. | |
| 19:02 | mberends | S08:218 ? |
| 19:02 | ruoso | yes, it had *that* meaning |
| 19:02 | pmichaud | it did? |
| 19:02 | ....that's.... a problem. | |
| 19:02 | ruoso | pmichaud, ah... I see what you mean now... |
| 19:02 | but we had discussed the capture sigil a few times already | |
| 19:03 | pmichaud | I don't mind if there's a specialized capture sigil, I just think that "@%" shouldn't be it. |
| 19:03 | (or shouldn't be one) | |
| 19:03 | ruoso | the short form is ¢ |
| 19:03 | pmichaud | short form is fine |
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| 19:04 | ruoso | is %@foo a list in hash context as well? |
| 19:04 | pmichaud | long form is a bit of a conflict |
| 19:04 | I would expect so, yes. | |
| 19:04 | ruoso | hmmm... maybe keep @@ |
| 19:05 | but it doesn't express it very well, since it implies something more positional oriented | |
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| 19:07 | pmichaud | (other than that, S08 is very nicely done) |
| 19:07 | ruoso++ | |
| 19:12 | PerlJam | are we calling things that have an @ on front "lists" now instead of "arrays"? |
| 19:12 | pmichaud | it's a contextualizer |
| 19:12 | +%foo # number of entries in foo | |
| 19:13 | mberends | ruoso: S08:69 "whether" |
| 19:13 | pmichaud | ~%foo # hash as a string |
| 19:13 | ?%foo # hash as a boolean | |
| 19:13 | @%foo # hash as a list | |
| 19:13 | PerlJam | "As the element 1 of the list @a is not a Capture or a Parcel, it is not possible for the .[] operator to traverse it." So, @a is a list? |
| 19:13 | pmichaud | ah, in that line it should say "array @a", yes. |
| 19:13 | @a is an array in that instance | |
| 19:14 | line above should also say "assign parcel to an array" | |
| 19:18 | PerlJam | When I assign a parcel to an array, the parcel is flattened. What happens when I assign a parcel to a hash? |
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| 19:19 | pmichaud | it's list context |
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| 19:20 | pmichaud | the parcel is placed into list context (flattening), and then the elements are assigned into the hash |
| 19:21 | the part that is missing from this draft is an explanation of something like | |
| 19:21 | pugs_svn | r28340 | ruoso++ | [S08] another typo by mberends++, s/list/array/ as pointed by PerlJam++ and pmichaud++ |
| 19:21 | pmichaud | my @foo := 1, :a<b>, 2; bar(|@foo); |
| 19:22 | ruoso | pmichaud, line 100 |
| 19:22 | dalek | rakudo: 798ea1c | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv: |
| 19:22 | rakudo: spectest-progress.csv update: 436 files, 15498 (71.4% of 21695) pass, 0 fail | |
| 19:22 | rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakud[…]481b1d621a8d3c0d3 | |
| 19:22 | PerlJam | Also, a large semantic shift hinges on the presence of a colon. my @a = 1, (2, (3, 4)); say @a[3]; my @b := 1, (2, (3, 4)); say @b[3]; # failure |
| 19:23 | pmichaud | ruoso: yes, but then what about... |
| 19:23 | PerlJam | (I'm not saying that's good or bad, just that it makes me uncomfortable) |
| 19:23 | ruoso | pmichaud, line 158 complements it |
| 19:23 | pmichaud | my @foo := 1, 'a'=>'b', 2; bar(|@foo) |
| 19:24 | ruoso | The "if you bind a parcel to a variable, it doesn't really matter which sigil it uses" part is one special thing I'd like some feedback |
| 19:24 | pmichaud | well, it matters between @ and % |
| 19:24 | I suspect that if I bind a parcel to %var, I can no longer see the positionals | |
| 19:25 | well, wait | |
| 19:25 | ruoso | why? |
| 19:25 | pmichaud | hmmm |
| 19:25 | I guess you're right there. | |
| 19:25 | since a parcel supports both associative and positional roles, you can bind to any variable. but that doesn't change the underlying meaning. | |
| 19:25 | ruoso | that's the point |
| 19:26 | which is also what PerlJam pointed out | |
| 19:26 | pmichaud | I see no problem with that. |
| 19:26 | but I still don't see how to distinguish :a<b> from 'a'=>'b' in a parcel | |
| 19:26 | ruoso | binding avoids the flattening |
| 19:26 | I guess the rule is the same as to a capture | |
| 19:26 | it's syntactical | |
| 19:26 | the parcel needs to keep that info | |
| 19:27 | pmichaud | so, if I have |
| 19:27 | my $a := 1, :a<b>, 2; | |
| 19:27 | and | |
| 19:27 | my $b := 1, 'a'=>'b', 2; | |
| 19:27 | how can I tell the difference between $a[1] and $b[1] ? | |
| 19:28 | or is that something that can only be determined by asking $a and $b (the parcels) and not the elements ? | |
| 19:28 | ruoso | I would guess the latter |
| 19:28 | pmichaud | in that case, how do I dynamically build a parcel having named elements from a hash? Would it be... |
| 19:28 | my $c = |%foo; # ??? | |
| 19:29 | ruoso | you want them as named or as positional? |
| 19:29 | pmichaud | well, as positional I would probably use |@%foo |
| 19:30 | ruoso | my ¢c = %foo; |
| 19:30 | I guess the above line would support both positional and named lookup | |
| 19:31 | pmichaud | so it's really a parcel, not a capture, hmmm? |
| 19:31 | ruoso | I'm not sure, actually |
| 19:31 | pmichaud | right |
| 19:31 | ruoso | theoretically a capture always start as a parcel |
| 19:31 | pmichaud | that's the part that isn't quite clear -- how we distinguish named arguments from positional pairs |
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| 19:32 | ruoso | parcels never do... |
| 19:32 | pmichaud | we can say "it's syntactic", but there are still enough runtime instances and flattening cases that something has to keep track of it |
| 19:32 | I think parcels *must* distinguish a named argument from a positional pair | |
| 19:32 | i.e., it has to be able to know the difference between | |
| 19:32 | ruoso | there's one trick, tho |
| 19:32 | pmichaud | my $a := 1, :a<b>, 2; |
| 19:33 | my $b := 1, 'a'=>'b', 2; | |
| 19:33 | ruoso | having a inner parcel that contains the named argument will hide it from the associative view |
| 19:33 | 1, (:a<b>), 2 | |
| 19:33 | or even maybe | |
| 19:33 | pmichaud | ...that's not an inner parcel, though :) |
| 19:33 | PerlJam | parens don't make parcels :) |
| 19:33 | ruoso | 1, \(:a<b>), 2 |
| 19:34 | PerlJam | ruoso: or just say that :a<b> begets a parcel |
| 19:34 | pmichaud | perljam: other way round |
| 19:34 | :a<b> isn't a parcel, it's a named argument | |
| 19:34 | the question is how to protect a pair from being treated as a named argument | |
| 19:34 | ruoso | there are two sides in this issue |
| 19:35 | yes, what pmichaud said | |
| 19:35 | pmichaud | for example, if I have: my $c = @a, 2, 3; |
| 19:35 | wait, never mind. | |
| 19:35 | if I have: my $c = |@a, 2, 3; | |
| 19:35 | and @a contains a Pair | |
| 19:36 | how do we prevent that Pair from becoming visible through $c's associative interface | |
| 19:36 | ruoso | or how do we enforce it to become visible by that |
| 19:36 | pmichaud | I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be visible as written there |
| 19:36 | at least, not according to the current S06 writings | |
| 19:37 | ruoso | I mean... we need to have a way to control whether individual arguments will be converted to named or positional in the resulting capture |
| 19:37 | pmichaud | the only things that end up being named arguments are explicitly given as named arguments, or come from prefix:<|> on a hash. |
| 19:38 | anyway, these are the questions that are current blockers for Rakudo being able to implement S08 | |
| 19:38 | (or parcels/captures in general) | |
| 19:38 | ruoso | the point is: while parcel has this dual-life API |
| 19:38 | a capture contains positional and named arguments as mutually-exclusivve | |
| 19:40 | pmichaud, but I guess the syntax can provide all the clues we need... | |
| 19:40 | pmichaud | I'm not sure it does, at least not yet |
| 19:40 | ruoso | and the Parcel must store this clues |
| 19:40 | my ¢c = |@a, 2, 3; | |
| 19:40 | in that case, we have a syntax clue | |
| 19:41 | the elements in @a define only positional arguments | |
| 19:41 | pmichaud | my $b := @a; my ¢c = |$b, 2, 3; # ??? |
| 19:42 | ruoso | hmm... point taken |
| 19:42 | pmichaud | my ¢c := |($x.foo), 2, 3; |
| 19:43 | ruoso | I guess it's the prefix:<|> who needs to be better qualified then |
| 19:43 | pmichaud | perhaps (more) |
| 19:44 | PerlJam | my reading of S06 would make those always named args |
| 19:44 | pmichaud | PerlJam: you mean pairs inside of @a would be named args? |
| 19:44 | PerlJam | aye |
| 19:45 | pmichaud | so how would I get them to be positionals? |
| 19:45 | ruoso | I think we need three variants for prefix:<|>... one for "named only", other for "positionals only" and other for "pairs as named" |
| 19:46 | pmichaud | PerlJam: I agree with your reading of S06 |
| 19:46 | PerlJam | ruoso: for option #3, would that mean that non-pairs would be positionals? |
| 19:47 | ruoso: or, what would it mean for an array that has pairs and non-pairs mixed in |@a when we say my ¢c := |@a, 2, 4, :a<foo> | |
| 19:48 | er, s/\|// | |
| 19:49 | (and how would that change if those non-pairs were objects that implemented the Positional or Associative (?) roles?) | |
| 19:49 | pmichaud | I think I'm okay with saying that |(...) always treats pairs as named arguments |
| 19:50 | although someone might be surprised when $x.foo(|@a); doesn't get all of the elements of @a into foo's slurpy array argument | |
| 19:50 | (if @a happens to contain pairs) | |
| 19:51 | that being the case, I think it's probably okay if infix:<,> syntactically identifies named arguments in a parcel | |
| 19:51 | PerlJam | Partitioning the concepts into Captures and Parcels helped my head a little, but I'm starting to get the feeling that there's a syntax density problem here. Maybe we need some keyword help rather than a special symbol |
| 19:52 | pmichaud | i.e.: |
| 19:52 | my $a = 1, :a<b>, 2; # parcel with one associative | |
| 19:52 | ruoso | pmichaud, yeah... I'm getting convinced that we need at least two variants for prefix:<|> |
| 19:52 | PerlJam | anyway ... I've a meeting to attend |
| 19:52 | * PerlJam | & |
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| 19:52 | pmichaud | my $a = 1, (:a<b>), 2; # parcel with zero associatives |
| 19:53 | my $a = 1, 'a'=>'b', 2; # parcel with zero associatives | |
| 19:53 | oops, modulo assignment precedence here | |
| 19:53 | (put parens around all of the above) | |
| 19:53 | ruoso | pmichaud, that's ok for when there are syntatical clues |
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| 19:53 | ruoso | but there are cases where there aren't |
| 19:53 | pmichaud | I think the other cases could be helped with method support |
| 19:54 | in particular, I'm thinking that |¢@a could do the right thing | |
| 19:54 | (i.e., an array in capture context) | |
| 19:55 | ruoso | but what about things that behave like Arrays but are not arrays |
| 19:55 | pmichaud | btw, from S08:92 (and other locations) |
| 19:55 | my $a = 0, :a<b>, 2; | |
| 19:55 | say $a[2]; | |
| 19:55 | parens needed there, otherwise the assignment is an item assignment | |
| 19:57 | ruoso | a parcel in item context stays unchanged (unless it contains a single item) |
| 19:57 | pmichaud | ruoso: it's a parsing issue |
| 19:57 | my $a = 0, :a<b>, 2 parses as (my $a = 0), :a<b>, 2 | |
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| 19:57 | ruoso | hm |
| 19:57 | pmichaud | if you want the other, it'd be my $a = (0, :a<b>, 2) |
| 19:58 | pugs_svn | r28341 | ruoso++ | [S08] enforce correct precedence, as pointed out by pmichaud++ |
| 19:59 | pmichaud | also line 118 |
| 19:59 | and line 168 | |
| 19:59 | and 175 | |
| 20:02 | pugs_svn | r28342 | ruoso++ | [S08] enforce correct precedence, as pointed out by pmichaud++ |
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| 20:10 | ruoso | anyway... I'd suggest having prefix:<|> turning every pair into named and prefix:<something_else> as positional only |
| 20:10 | pmichaud | that works for me |
| 20:10 | I wonder if prefix:<||> is a bad idea :) | |
| 20:22 | * ruoso | later & |
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| 20:24 | pmichaud | An interesting artifact of S08 as written: http://gist.github.com/190523 |
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| 20:25 | diakopter | inline name/value pair literals, essentially |
| 20:25 | literals | |
| 20:25 | what he said | |
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| 20:25 | diakopter | that's the spirit |
| 20:26 | pmichaud | so, here's a variation that might be hard to explain... |
| 20:27 | http://gist.github.com/190525 | |
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| 20:27 | pmichaud | although I guess it comes down to the same issue of "what does .kv iterate on a match object?" |
| 20:28 | but in this case it's not terribly obvious that @a is ending up being a parcel | |
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| 20:30 | pmichaud | afk for a bit |
| 20:30 | diakopter | parcels lack postage |
| 20:35 | mberends | diakopter: the simplest Test.pm for vijs would be approximately: sub plan($n){ say "1..$n"} my $testnumber=1; sub ok($cond){ if ! $cond {print "not "} say "ok $testnumber++"} } |
| 20:35 | diakopter | mberends: thanks :) |
| 20:35 | I'm porting fglock's edition | |
| 20:35 | from mp6 | |
| 20:36 | the trick will be to make STD and viv re-runnable in the same process | |
| 20:36 | mberends | hope it works soon! I got vijs working locally today. diakopter++ |
| 20:36 | diakopter | mberends: which architecture/platform? |
| 20:36 | mberends | ubuntu |
| 20:36 | 32 bit | |
| 20:37 | diakopter | neat |
| 20:37 | moritz_ and I got it going on linux amd64 for a possible p6eval replacement machine | |
| 20:37 | 4 cores instead of 1; more RAM | |
| 20:37 | mberends | wahey! |
| 20:38 | diakopter | perl amd64 and v8 amd64 |
| 20:38 | speaking happily | |
| 20:38 | mberends | also cool |
| 20:38 | will try Windows XP and 7 tomorrow | |
| 20:38 | diakopter | don't think that will be possible |
| 20:39 | the windows v8 is only just now being made to work on compilers other than msvc++ | |
| 20:39 | unless you have that, and have perl built in that as well.. | |
| 20:40 | mberends | ah, worth looking into. I'm preparing a README.mswin for Rakudo anyway |
| 20:40 | diakopter | though I think someone got it to work in cygwin |
| 20:40 | with lots of work | |
| 20:44 | pugs_svn | r28343 | diakopter++ | [vijs] laid the groundwork for subroutines/closures/blocks & control exceptions |
| 20:45 | pmichaud | hmmmm |
| 20:45 | time make spectest on standard parrot build: user39m51.317s | |
| 20:45 | time make spectest on optimized parrot build: user24m24.600s | |
| 20:45 | I think we should default to --optimize | |
| 20:47 | (this was on 64-bit kubuntu) | |
| 20:47 | * diakopter | assents |
| 20:48 | diakopter | same spectest outcome though? |
| 20:48 | pmichaud | yes |
| 20:48 | except for the "wallclock secs" part. :-) | |
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| 20:50 | diakopter | for make spectest, does rakudo spark a new process for each file? or "reset" some sandbox sub environment? or what |
| 20:50 | moritz_ | diakopter: new process for each file |
| 20:52 | diakopter | on that note, it it spec'd that the .parse routine can accept a symbol table (and 'parent'/environment stabs) as a place from which to start, for eval() |
| 20:52 | is it spec'd | |
| 20:53 | that's a question | |
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| 20:54 | diakopter | :) |
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| 20:57 | pugs_svn | r28344 | lwall++ | [S03,S09] |
| 20:57 | r28344 | Range objects are now primarily intervals in C<cmp> | |
| 20:57 | r28344 | Extend dwimminess of series to handle steps and limits readably | |
| 20:57 | r28344 | :by is deemed Too Ugly and is now dead, David Green++ | |
| 20:57 | r28344 | Use series operator to replace :by semantics more readably | |
| 20:57 | r28344 | Range objects used as lists now simply mutate .. to ... | |
| 20:57 | r28344 | (taking into account ^ though) | |
| 20:57 | r28344 | Alpha ranges must now match endpoint using !after semantics on non-eqv | |
| 20:57 | r28344 | Simplify range semantics when used as subscripts | |
| 20:57 | r28344 | Kill unshifty negative subscript lvalues as too error prone | |
| 20:57 | r28344 | Spec way to declare modular subscripts | |
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| 21:02 | pugs_svn | r28345 | moritz++ | [S08] use POD markup where appropriate |
| 21:02 | r28345 | | |
| 21:02 | r28345 | Also use non-breaking space for "Perl 5" and "Perl 6" | |
| 21:02 | * pmichaud | rushes off to read the r28344 diff |
| 21:02 | * moritz_ | too |
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| 21:06 | moritz_ | so any kind of iteration magic is now done with ...? |
| 21:06 | diakopter | Rats >1 can represented by 2 integers (dividend/divisor) or 3 (quotient/remainder/divisor)... is a stringification of Rat specified to either one? or can there be both? |
| 21:06 | moritz_ | diakopter: Rat stringifies like Num |
| 21:06 | pmichaud | stringification of a Rat goes through .Num |
| 21:07 | moritz_ | rakudo: say 1/2, ' ', (1/2).perl |
| 21:07 | p6eval | rakudo 798ea1: OUTPUT«0.5 1/2» |
| 21:07 | diakopter | ok; is there a "mixed fraction" string representation |
| 21:07 | pmichaud | not defined by the language, no. |
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| 21:07 | diakopter | sorry; my question was unclear; I was asking about the 3-int one, in particular |
| 21:07 | pmichaud | not defined by the language, no. |
| 21:08 | (perhaps "not yet ...") | |
| 21:08 | * moritz_ | not enlightened by r28344, but is probably too tired to be so |
| 21:08 | pmichaud | I'm ***so*** glad I didn't bother to try to implement lazy RangeIterators yet |
| 21:09 | moritz_: r28344 seems to clear up a lot of range issues. I'm looking forward to implementing it :) | |
| 21:11 | I don't understand the parsing of | |
| 21:11 | 1 ... * + 1, 9 | |
| 21:11 | 10 ... * + 10, 90 | |
| 21:11 | 100 ... * + 100, 1000 | |
| 21:11 | that looks to me like there are "two terms in a row" | |
| 21:11 | TimToady | ah, missing commas |
| 21:12 | pmichaud | okay, that makes it clearer to me then :) |
| 21:12 | * moritz_ | confused |
| 21:12 | diakopter | I thought it says ... isn't a term there; it's a comma? |
| 21:12 | pmichaud | ... is an infix operator there |
| 21:12 | moritz_ | ... is an infix op, no? |
| 21:12 | pmichaud | but it's lower precedence than comma |
| 21:12 | pugs_svn | r28346 | lwall++ | [S03] missing commas |
| 21:12 | pmichaud | its arguments are lists |
| 21:13 | moritz_ | ah, between the lines |
| 21:13 | that makes sense, yes | |
| 21:13 | * moritz_ | parsed that as three independent examples |
| 21:14 | pmichaud | right |
| 21:14 | but it's all one multi-line example :) | |
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| 21:14 | diakopter | TimToady: also the next /m example |
| 21:15 | pmichaud | diakopter: which one? the rest all look fine to me |
| 21:16 | TimToady | they look good to me too |
| 21:16 | diakopter | sigh |
| 21:17 | * diakopter | gets it now |
| 21:17 | crythias joined #perl6 | |
| 21:18 | TimToady | I suppose we could change the * dwimmery to only look at literal numbers, and then the 30 and 300 wouldn't be necessary |
| 21:18 | but that kinda violates the notion of * being run-time dispatched | |
| 21:24 | diakopter | doubling? or does the interpolation try to match the start of the next portion? |
| 21:26 | oh, I see.. assume it's arithmetic if only 2? | |
| 21:27 | pugs_svn | r28347 | lwall++ | typos |
| 21:27 | diakopter | right, that's What It Says. :) |
| 21:31 | * diakopter | needs to read top-down more often |
| 21:31 | pmichaud | TimToady: This is an amazing reconstruction of series operator, and I'm impressed. TimToady++ |
| 21:37 | TimToady | well, :by was always a problem child, in more ways than one |
| 21:38 | pmichaud | yes, but this seems to have also resolved some of the 'a'..'z' issues |
| 21:38 | although I guess some still remain | |
| 21:38 | TimToady | I've probably been a bit imprecise there |
| 21:38 | moritz_ | is :by(-1) special cased? |
| 21:39 | otherwise I din't see how 'reverse "a".."z"' can remain lazy | |
| 21:39 | TimToady | there is no :by any more |
| 21:40 | but yes, you have a point | |
| 21:40 | if reverse is a listop | |
| 21:40 | moritz_ | in my copy of the synopsis there's still :by |
| 21:40 | TimToady | might have to limit it to ('a'..'z').reverse |
| 21:40 | pmichaud | even then, do ranges still have a "by" option? |
| 21:41 | TimToady | or some series variant |
| 21:41 | pmichaud | ah |
| 21:41 | so 'a'..'z' could return a series | |
| 21:41 | hmmmm. | |
| 21:41 | er, | |
| 21:41 | TimToady | but a series isn't an object really |
| 21:41 | pmichaud | ('a'..'z').reverse could return a series |
| 21:41 | moritz_ | more to the point, I think you forgot to remove form instances of :by, if :by should be gone |
| 21:41 | pmichaud | right, series is a generator |
| 21:41 | TimToady | I'm sure I've neglected to hunt them all down |
| 21:42 | crythias | just let :by gones be :by gones |
| 21:42 | TimToady | however, some of generators might be intrinsically reversible |
| 21:42 | if found on the end of a list | |
| 21:42 | pmichaud | so, ('a'..'z').reverse could return ('z' ... *.pred, 'a') or something like that |
| 21:43 | TimToady | right |
| 21:43 | moritz_ | pmichaud: sounds sane, but hard to instrospect |
| 21:43 | what would ('a'..'z').reverse.reverse return? | |
| 21:43 | pmichaud | I'm not sure that reversing a yada can be done lazily |
| 21:44 | crythias | why not? does it require surgery? |
| 21:44 | moritz_ | no, effort ;-) |
| 21:44 | TimToady | it would be like taking your intestines out and sticking them in backwards |
| 21:44 | crythias | but they're in order... |
| 21:45 | pmichaud | but I did wonder about negative increments.... how do we detect the end of the list in something like... |
| 21:45 | diakopter | well, just make sure to eat in reverse, and chew slowly. |
| 21:45 | pmichaud | 10 ... *-0.3, 0 |
| 21:45 | crythias | forget that, how do you determine the next entry? |
| 21:45 | TimToady | yeah, the sense of the cmp has to change somehow |
| 21:46 | pmichaud | perhaps we check to see if the cmp changes? |
| 21:46 | i.e., we continue the series as long as *-2 cmp *-1 === *-1 cmp *-0 ? | |
| 21:46 | moritz_ | pmichaud: that doesn't look too bright for 1 ... *+5 3 |
| 21:46 | that would produce an infinite list, because cmp never changes | |
| 21:47 | unless you compare the starting point too | |
| 21:47 | which might be the solution :) | |
| 21:47 | pmichaud | yeah, that gets kinda odd then |
| 21:47 | I guess it would be the element before the generating closure | |
| 21:47 | TimToady | like the limit wants to be checked outside the closure |
| 21:48 | call the closure, compare prev with next, maybe force to Nil | |
| 21:48 | diakopter | sure 'nuff it gets `odd` |
| 21:49 | TimToady | the closure plus limit form would certainly have to assume monotonicity |
| 21:49 | pmichaud | I think that's probably okay, though |
| 21:49 | TimToady | unless we require an exact match in those case |
| 21:49 | *cases | |
| 21:50 | but then how would it know? | |
| 21:50 | pmichaud | I'd say that we want the direction of start versus end to match the direction of generated element versus end |
| 21:50 | i.e., | |
| 21:50 | TimToady | you just wouldn't write those in the closure/limit form |
| 21:51 | pmichaud | $start ... $code, $end we continue as long as $start cmp $end === $code(...) cmp $end |
| 21:51 | TimToady | so I think we can just assume monotonic and leave the rest to the general form |
| 21:51 | pmichaud | correct. |
| 21:51 | moritz_ | +1 |
| 21:51 | zpmorgan joined #perl6 | |
| 21:52 | TimToady | well, $start cmp 2nd can be cached as a sign |
| 21:52 | pmichaud | correct. |
| 21:52 | TimToady | state var in the closure |
| 21:52 | pmichaud | versus 2nd or versus $end ? |
| 21:53 | TimToady | the point is to reduce it to $statevar == $code(...) cmp $end, but I guess state would be outside the user's closure :/ |
| 21:53 | pmichaud | right |
| 21:53 | I just think $statevar should be produced from $start and $end :-) | |
| 21:54 | I could come up with a $code that starts moving away from $end but eventually comes around to it | |
| 21:54 | (like a sine wave, for example :-) | |
| 21:55 | TimToady | I guess, and we do have $end already; I was confusing it with $prev |
| 21:55 | pmichaud | right |
| 21:55 | perhaps I should say $start ... $code, $limit | |
| 21:55 | moritz_ | is $start the first element in the list on the left of ...? or the last? |
| 21:56 | pmichaud | last |
| 21:56 | moritz_ | good |
| 21:56 | pmichaud | $a, $b, $c, $d ... $code, $limit |
| 21:56 | TimToady | at most, last 3 items for * dwimmery |
| 21:56 | pmichaud | we compare $d with the $limit, even if $code is n-ary |
| 21:56 | TimToady | hence the example with 10,20,30...* |
| 21:57 | pmichaud | right |
| 22:01 | TimToady | and I guess I'm not too worried about losing laziness on reverse; p5 gets along just fine without it :) |
| 22:04 | spinclad | rakudo: .say for ^1 |
| 22:04 | p6eval | rakudo 798ea1: OUTPUT«0» |
| 22:04 | spinclad | rakudo: .say for ^0 |
| 22:04 | p6eval | rakudo 798ea1: ( no output ) |
| 22:04 | spinclad | good |
| 22:05 | rakudo: .say for 0 ..^ 0 | |
| 22:05 | p6eval | rakudo 798ea1: ( no output ) |
| 22:05 | spinclad | rakudo: .say for 0 ... *+1, 0 |
| 22:05 | TimToady | rakudo: .say for Nil |
| 22:05 | p6eval | rakudo 798ea1: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:...'in Main (/tmp/EyHiZDCmn0:2)» |
| 22:05 | rakudo 798ea1: OUTPUT«Nil()» | |
| 22:05 | pmichaud | heh |
| 22:05 | TimToady | hmm, bug |
| 22:05 | pmichaud | is "Nil" still the same as () or is it a type? |
| 22:06 | TimToady | Nil is just () and is, I think, defined |
| 22:06 | pmichaud | okay |
| 22:06 | spinclad | TimToady: spec now says in 1, 2, 3 ... the 3 is needed, but earlier say two terms assume arithmetic. -><- ? |
| 22:07 | pmichaud | the 3 is needed for that example |
| 22:07 | TimToady | it's a valid value, that you can't a valid value from :) |
| 22:07 | that 3 isn't really need, correct | |
| 22:07 | pmichaud | oh, yes, that one 3 isn't needed |
| 22:08 | spinclad | (speaking of 3, 30, 300 being needed) |
| 22:08 | kthxbye & # gotta run, wife waiting | |
| 22:09 | pugs_svn | r28348 | lwall++ | [S03] revise thinko spotted by spinclad++ |
| 22:10 | pmichaud | <a c e> ... * # what does this produce ? |
| 22:10 | TimToady | acefghijk... |
| 22:10 | pmichaud | and we detect that because... ? |
| 22:10 | TimToady | no arithmetic ops to work with |
| 22:10 | pmichaud | well, clearly I can write 'a' + 'c' |
| 22:11 | so we have arithmetic ops | |
| 22:11 | i.e., my next example would be | |
| 22:11 | <2 4 8> ... * # what does this produce ? ;-) | |
| 22:13 | Chillance joined #perl6 | |
| 22:14 | pmichaud | I'm guessing the latter would need to be 2 4 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 ... |
| 22:14 | TimToady | how 'bout, subtraction returns 0 when the entities aren't eqv |
| 22:14 | Confield joined #perl6 | |
| 22:14 | pmichaud | how bout we use .succ when the entities aren't ~~ Num |
| 22:14 | TimToady | that kills <2 4 8> |
| 22:15 | unless we special case <> to numify | |
| 22:15 | pmichaud | depending on what we expect 2 4 8 to be |
| 22:15 | for example | |
| 22:15 | what about: my $a = '3/4'; $a++ | |
| 22:15 | I'm guessing that ends up being 3/5 :) | |
| 22:16 | rakudo: my $a = '3/4'; say $a+1; $a++; say $a; | |
| 22:16 | p6eval | rakudo 798ea1: OUTPUT«43/5» |
| 22:16 | TimToady | rakudo: my $a = 3/4; say $a+1; $a++; say $a; |
| 22:17 | p6eval | rakudo 798ea1: OUTPUT«1.75Method 'succ' not found for invocant of class 'Rat'» |
| 22:17 | pmichaud | bug on that .succ |
| 22:17 | jauaor joined #perl6 | |
| 22:18 | pmichaud | and in the previous example, rakudo doesn't know how to numify strings with fractions yet |
| 22:18 | (it will do so) | |
| 22:19 | anyway, I suspect the "correct as spec" answer would've been 1.75\n3/5\n for the first, and 1.75\n2.75\n for the second | |
| 22:21 | TimToady | you know, there's something to be said for forcing ++ to be numeric, and leaving .succ to increment strings... |
| 22:21 | pmichaud | yes |
| 22:22 | so, magical autoincrement for strings is always .=succ | |
| 22:22 | TimToady | right |
| 22:22 | I'm trying to think of any downside | |
| 22:22 | pmichaud | it feels very correct |
| 22:22 | + is numeric anyway | |
| 22:22 | ++ should be numeric | |
| 22:22 | TimToady | well, there's the question of which type to coerce to |
| 22:23 | pmichaud | ++ should be essentially the same as += 1 |
| 22:23 | TimToady | well, prefix anyway |
| 22:24 | pmichaud | I don't understand "which type to coerce to", though |
| 22:24 | TimToady | well, is Num(1) going to turn our fast int into a floater? |
| 22:24 | most ++ will be on ints | |
| 22:24 | or Ints | |
| 22:24 | pmichaud | I would treat the '1' as an int |
| 22:25 | TimToady | so coerce if not ~~ Numeric or some such |
| 22:25 | pmichaud | well, ++ is already optimized for Int |
| 22:25 | (it's already allowed to be optimized for Int) | |
| 22:25 | TimToady | not if Num() gets to it first :/ |
| 22:26 | pmichaud | I don't see the Num you're talking about |
| 22:26 | my $a = '3'; $a++; # I expect this to become an Int | |
| 22:26 | TimToady | okay, I guess it's not a problem |
| 22:26 | pmichaud | just as I expect that |
| 22:26 | TimToady | not if postfix:<++>(Any) coerces to Num |
| 22:26 | pmichaud | my $a = '3/4'; say ($a+1).WHAT gives me a Rat |
| 22:27 | TimToady | we need something that says "coerce to best numeric type" |
| 22:27 | pmichaud | i.e., string numification is smart enough to parse its contents to determine the return type |
| 22:27 | TimToady | well, if Num does that already, that's okay |
| 22:28 | I suppose they can always say num() to coerce to a floater | |
| 22:28 | pmichaud | it doesn't do it that way in Rakudo yet, but that's what I think we had discussed previously |
| 22:28 | i.e., numification of '3+4i' gives me a Complex | |
| 22:28 | moxilo joined #perl6 | |
| 22:29 | TimToady | we can at least make prefix:<+> do that, even if Num is more specific |
| 22:29 | moxilo left #perl6 | |
| 22:29 | pmichaud | ah, good point |
| 22:29 | mspauldi1g joined #perl6 | |
| 22:29 | pmichaud | so perhaps ++ is really +self + 1 |
| 22:29 | instead of self.Num + 1 | |
| 22:29 | TimToady | I'm slightly more comfy with that |
| 22:30 | otherwise you violate the invariant that Type($x) ~~ Type | |
| 22:30 | pmichaud | correct. |
| 22:30 | TimToady | on the other hand, it doesn't work out so well for our proposed Num(Any) coercion type notation |
| 22:31 | pmichaud | correct. |
| 22:31 | TimToady | unless that's Nummy(Any) or some such |
| 22:31 | pmichaud | I've often felt that "numification" is different from ".Num" |
| 22:31 | TimToady | or coercion to Numeric role |
| 22:31 | now thinking about how that could set up a bunch of handlers | |
| 22:32 | coercion to a role in general, that is | |
| 22:32 | pmichaud | in particular, putting something in list context isn't identical to .List |
| 22:32 | and putting something in a hash context isn't identical to .Hash | |
| 22:32 | so putting something in a numeric context isn't the same as .Num | |
| 22:32 | TimToady | so, what does Associative($x) do? |
| 22:33 | presumably coerce to the first candidate that says "I can do that" in some list of candidates | |
| 22:34 | where that list is some subset of the classes that compose Associtive | |
| 22:34 | *ia | |
| 22:37 | pmichaud | anyway, I get a little lost on understanding the intended structure behind the coercions, contexts, and methods, so I'll hope it clears up soon. (see also .true, .Bool, boolean context, etc. :-) |
| 22:41 | TimToady | bbl & |
| 22:45 | payload joined #perl6 | |
| 22:55 | Student joined #perl6 | |
| 23:12 | pugs_svn | r28349 | diakopter++ | [vijs] make Int use arbitrary precision (BigInteger); there are *tons* of methods to expose/wireup for Int (someone please feel free) |
| 23:14 | ruoso joined #perl6 | |
| 23:16 | diakopter | moritz_: you around |
| 23:18 | * ruoso | starting the night shift |
| 23:22 | diakopter | vijs: say 102987609812347098760129837021987103475138750 - 1230487130694871034374821979182735987249183791837461982374981732549876660918203 |
| 23:22 | p6eval | vijs 28349: OUTPUT«-1230487130694871034374821979182735884261573979490363222245144710562773185779453 time in interpreter: 0.011593 s» |
| 23:26 | mikehh joined #perl6 | |
| 23:28 | pugs_svn | r28350 | diakopter++ | [vijs] implement Multiplicative for Int |
| 23:38 | rfordinal joined #perl6 | |
| 23:45 | Tene | rakudo: my @list = <a b c d>; say (@list, 5).perl; |
| 23:45 | p6eval | rakudo 798ea1: OUTPUT«["a", "b", "c", "d", 5]» |
| 23:45 | Tene | rakudo: my %a = <a b c d>; say (%a, 5).perl; |
| 23:45 | p6eval | rakudo 798ea1: OUTPUT«["a" => "b", "c" => "d", 5]» |
| 23:53 | rfordinal joined #perl6 | |
| 23:59 | sm^^^ joined #perl6 |
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