IRC log for #perl6, 2009-10-10

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

All times shown according to UTC.

Time	Nick	Message
00:01	jnthn	rakudo: say " ( no ouptput )"
00:01	p6eval	rakudo f99cc4: ( no output )
00:02	pugs_svn	r28704 \| lwall++ \| [viv] do similarly with postcircumfix and dotty
00:02	jnthn	\o/ # wow p6eval has spell checker!
00:02	moritz_	rakudo: say 1
00:02	p6eval	rakudo f99cc4: ( no output )
00:02	jnthn	...oops.
00:02	moritz_	I was wondering why the NL was missing from yours
00:03	moritz_	it segfaults during build
00:03	jnthn	heh heh
00:03	jnthn	...during build?!
00:03	jnthn	That's...ouch.
00:03	jnthn	moritz_: Where in the build?
00:04	moritz_	rather late... but I didn't look closure, instead started a rebuild ;-)
00:06	moritz_	/home/p6eval//p2/bin/parrot -o perl6_s1.pbc perl6.pir
00:06	moritz_	make: *** [perl6_s1.pbc] Segmentation fault
00:07	jnthn	Oh, Parrot SEGV just on compiling?
00:07	jnthn	Damm.
00:07	jnthn	oh, hmm...I committed...
00:08	jnthn	-41447
00:08	jnthn	+41772
00:08	jnthn	So I did dump Parrot rev.
00:08	jnthn	Didn't actually need it for this commit, but instead for forthcoming one.
00:09	moritz_	I have no idea how clean or unclean the parrot dir on that server is
00:10	jnthn	Maybe worth cleaning that up before we panic. :-)
00:11	moritz_	aye
00:12	moritz_	oh, did somebody fix the parallel build?
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00:13	jnthn	moritz_: I tweaked the makefile a little today.
00:14	jnthn	moritz_: Added one missing dep I'd forgotten before.
00:14	jnthn	That may have done it.
00:15	moritz_	ok, on two of the hosts the build was successful
00:15	moritz_	now waiting for the p6eval one ;-)
00:18	moritz_	rakudo: say 2
00:18	p6eval	rakudo 3a4d14: OUTPUT«2␤»
00:18	moritz_	much better ;-)
00:18	jnthn	\o/
00:19	jnthn	rakudo: sub foo(::T $x) { }; say &foo.signature.perl
00:19	p6eval	rakudo 3a4d14: OUTPUT«:(Any ::T $x)␤»
00:19	jnthn	\o/
00:19	moritz_	\o/ indeed
00:19	jnthn	Now we just need the default closure in there
00:19	jnthn	And then the sig objects probably have everything the new binder will need.
00:19	jnthn	Well, apart from nested signatures.
00:20	jnthn	There's a slut for those.
00:20	jnthn	But we're not parsing 'em yet.
00:20	moritz_	rakudo: sub foo(::T Int $x where { $x % 2 } ) { }; say &foo.signature.perl
00:20	p6eval	rakudo 3a4d14: OUTPUT«Multiple prefix constraints not yet supported at line 2, near ") { }; say"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:1161)␤»
00:20	moritz_	did you mean "slot"?
00:20	jnthn	didn't I type...oh...wow...ouch
00:20	moritz_	:)
00:21	jnthn	That code should parse - I copied STD though. ;-)
00:21	jnthn	STD got fixed for that only a day or two ago.
00:21	moritz_	rakudo: say 3 !% 2
00:21	p6eval	rakudo 3a4d14: OUTPUT«0␤»
00:22	moritz_	rakudo: say 4 !% 2
00:22	p6eval	rakudo 3a4d14: OUTPUT«1␤»
00:25		lumi joined #perl6
00:25	moritz_	jnthn: is .constraints supposed to be implemented?
00:27	jnthn	rakudo: sub foo($x) { }; say &foo.signature.params.constraints
00:28	p6eval	rakudo 3a4d14: OUTPUT«Method 'constraints' not found for invocant of class 'List'␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:204)␤»
00:28	jnthn	rakudo: sub foo($x) { }; say &foo.signature.params[0].constraints
00:28	p6eval	rakudo 3a4d14: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
00:28	jnthn	rakudo: sub foo($x where 1) { }; say &foo.signature.params[0].constraints
00:28	p6eval	rakudo 3a4d14: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
00:28	jnthn	hmm
00:28	jnthn	That second one is more unexpected.
00:28	jnthn	Yes, I think it's meant to be.
00:28		SmokeMachine joined #perl6
00:28	jnthn	Maybe bug.
00:29	jnthn	Or something else odd.
00:29	pugs_svn	r28705 \| moritz++ \| [t/spec] .constraints tests
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00:30	pugs_svn	r28706 \| moritz++ \| [t/spec] non-closure constraints
00:31		payload joined #perl6
00:31	moritz_	rakudo: sub h(::T $x, T $y) { };
00:31	p6eval	rakudo 3a4d14: ( no output )
00:32	moritz_	rakudo: sub h(::T $x, T $y) { }; say &h.signature.params[1].type.perl
00:32	p6eval	rakudo 3a4d14: OUTPUT«Any␤»
00:32	moritz_	not quite what I expected, but then I don't know what else it could have returned
00:33	moritz_	rakudo: sub h(::T $x, T $y) { }; say &h.signature.params[0].type_capture.perl
00:33	p6eval	rakudo 3a4d14: OUTPUT«Method 'type_capture' not found for invocant of class 'Parameter'␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:204)␤»
00:33	moritz_	rakudo: sub h(::T $x, T $y) { }; say &h.signature.params[0].type_captures.perl
00:33	p6eval	rakudo 3a4d14: OUTPUT«["T"]␤»
00:34	jnthn	moritz_: It transforms that lookup into a constraint.
00:34	jnthn	moritz_: For the moment, anyway.
00:34	pugs_svn	r28707 \| moritz++ \| [t/spec] type_captures
00:35	jnthn	moritz_: So :(::T $x, T $y) is kinda more like :(::T $x, $y where T)
00:35	moritz_	is it also supposed to be that way?
00:35	jnthn	I'm really not too sure.
00:35	moritz_	I mean it does make a difference for narrowness
00:35	jnthn	Well, that's an interesting problem.
00:35	jnthn	Remember narrowness matters when we're sorting the candidates.
00:36	jnthn	And that sorting is independent of any particular call.
00:36	jnthn	So we don't know that T will be when we do the sort.
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00:37	jnthn	So we'd have to assume Any in the above case.
00:37	jnthn	At sort time.
00:37	moritz_	so :(Any, Int) wins against :(::T, T) when called with (1, 2)
00:37	jnthn	Right.
00:37	moritz_	that's fair if you document it, IMHO
00:37	jnthn	Well, the thing is
00:37	jnthn	:(Any, Int) wins against :(::T, T)
00:38	jnthn	That's it.
00:38	jnthn	Well
00:38	jnthn	If the first can bind of course.
00:38	jnthn	But the sorting - which is call-independent - sees the first sorted before the second.
00:40	pugs_svn	r28708 \| lwall++ \| [viv] more strange operator type cleanup, fake infixes, regex_infix, etc.
00:40	jnthn	The perhaps nice thing is that :(T, ::T) sorts narrower than :(Any, Any)
00:40	jnthn	Because the constraint makes it narrower.
00:40	jnthn	Which I think is what you want.
00:41	moritz_	aye
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00:43	jnthn	It's certainly a topic I've pondered quite a bit too, though.
00:43	jnthn	"is treating it as a constraint really OK"
00:43	TimToady	would :(Int ::T $x, T $y) be tighter than that?
00:44	jnthn	TimToady: :(Int ::T $x, T $y) would be tighter than :(T, ::T), yes
00:44	moritz_	I'd expect that to turn into :(Int $x, Int $y where T)
00:44	sjohnson	Tene: on your slurp function you wrote for me a few months ago, do i need to close the $fh handler you wrote?
00:44	sjohnson	>> sub slurp { my $name = shift; open my $fh, '<', $name; local $/; <$fh> }
00:44	jnthn	moritz_: Actually only (ATM) :(Int ::T $x, $y where T)...hmm
00:44	Tene	sjohnson: no, because you're using a lexical filehandle.
00:44	Tene	sjohnson: so it's automatically closed at the end of the scope.
00:45	jnthn	TimToady: OOps, I meant :(::T, T) above
00:45	jnthn	moritz_: Though there's a decent argument for what you suggest.
00:45	sjohnson	Tene: thanks
00:45	sjohnson	（　｀ー´）
00:47	moritz_	jnthn: if that's implementable without a major refactor of the dispatcher, that'd be a great compromise
00:47	dalek	rakudo: 1b83557 \| moritz++ \| t/spectest.data:
00:47	dalek	rakudo: we pass t/spec/S06-signature/introspection.t, jnthn++
00:47	dalek	rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1b835575694653a394944ae24fec731f7e286e1c
00:47	moritz_	maximal DWIM but preserving pre-sortability
00:47	jnthn	moritz_: Well, it's not even a dispatcher issue.
00:47	jnthn	moritz_: It's more a signature construction one.
00:47	moritz_	right
00:48	jnthn	So in many senses, it's kinda easy. :-)
00:48	moritz_	\o/
00:48	jnthn	I agree it's a good balance.
00:49	moritz_	I'll sneak it in as a TODO test ;-)
00:49	TimToady	we just have to say that an en passant type also captures the nominal type
00:49	jnthn	TimToady: ...in English? ;-)
00:50	TimToady	en passant is English, as of 1070
00:50	TimToady	er, 1066
00:50	jnthn	:-P
00:50	moritz_	;-)
00:50	moritz_	"in passing"
00:50	moritz_	playing chess now and then helps you understand what "en passant" means ;-)
00:51	jnthn	TimToady: The proposal here is that :(Int ::T $x, T $y), which currently gets transformed to :(Int ::T $x, $y where T) would instead become :(Int ::T $x, Int $y where T)
00:51	TimToady	seems right
00:51	jnthn	TimToady: In other words, it's just shoving along as much as we statically can know about the nominal type.
00:52	TimToady	what about :(Int ::T $x where *.odd, T $y)?
00:53	moritz_	would be turned into ... Int $y where T & *.odd
00:53	moritz_	I suppose
00:53	jnthn	TimToady: Since ::T captures the nominal type, and has no relation to the constraint, I'd not really expect to distribute the constraint from the first parameter too.
00:53	moritz_	so here our expectations diverge
00:54	jnthn	Well, but then things like :(Odd ::T $x) gets fun
00:54	moritz_	but what jnthn says makes sense, also
00:54	jnthn	Assuming a subset Odd of Int where ...
00:54	pmichaud	I'm not sure I agree with the transformation
00:54	jnthn	Because signature construction picks that apart into a nominal type of Int and a constraint.
00:54	TimToady	that seems to argue for carrying wheres over
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00:55	jnthn	TimToady: Yeah, it can be argued both ways. :-)
00:55	TimToady	indeed, what if you want ::T to be only the nominal type
00:55	TimToady	and appy a different constraint?
00:56	jnthn	TimToady: Well, ::T is only the nominal type.
00:56	TimToady	:(Odd ::T $x, T where Even)
00:56	TimToady	until a tighter type is bound
00:57	TimToady	then it's actual type
00:57	jnthn	rakudo: subset Even of Int where { $^n % 2 == 0 }; sub foo(::T $x) { say T.WHAT }; my Even $x = 42; foo($x)
00:57	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
00:57	jnthn	TimToady: Well, thingy is...we've been talking so far about this as nothing more than signature syntax sugar.
00:57	TimToady	s/tighter/derived/
00:58	jnthn	Rather than analysing relations between the types.
00:58	TimToady	en passant is supposed to mean the actual type of the argument
00:58	TimToady	suppose you derive MyInt from Int
00:58	TimToady	if you pass in a MyInt, T is MyInt, not Int
00:59	jnthn	TimToady: It's whatever .WHAT on the arguemnt hands back.
00:59	jnthn	TimToady: Oh, for sure, I agree.
00:59	TimToady	but you said it was only the nominal type, which that ain't
01:00	jnthn	TimToady: We really need to define some terms somewhere for what we call things. :-)
01:00	TimToady	if you say :(Int ::T $x, T $y), then the nominal type is Int, but actual is MyInt
01:00	jnthn	Nominal is a really bad word for what I want to express here really. I wish we had a better one.
01:01	TimToady	nominal isn't bad at all if you're thinking about "name equiv" vs "structural equiv"
01:01	jnthn	TimToady: Yes, but in :(Int ::T $x, T $y) then I see T as being bound to $x.WHAT
01:01	jnthn	Which I'd say is the nominal type of $x
01:02	jnthn	Well, assuming we found $x already of course.
01:02	TimToady	that's the storage type
01:02	jnthn	heh :-)
01:02	TimToady	no, $x's storage type may have no name at all
01:02	jnthn	Right, thus why we need to sort out the terminology on types. :-)
01:02	TimToady	a storage type is what the subset type is actually stored as
01:02	TimToady	the WHAT type
01:03	jnthn	I probably when I say "nominal" so often maybe what to actually say "storage type"
01:03	TimToady	but that's not what I've been calling nominal type at all
01:03	TimToady	I only mean the declared type in the sig
01:03	jnthn	Ah, OK.
01:03	jnthn	I think we're meaning the same thing and using different words. :-)
01:03	moritz_	rakudo: multi a(::T $x, T $y) { 1 }; multi a($x, $y) { 2 }; say a([], {})
01:03	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«2␤»
01:05	jnthn	So, ::T captures the storage type?
01:05	jnthn	Is that fitting with how you'd describe it?
01:05	TimToady	yes
01:05	jnthn	OK.
01:05	jnthn	I can accept that way of calling things. :-)
01:05	TimToady	we already know the nominal type, so no need to capture it
01:06	jnthn	I've been using nominal type in far wider sense than you.
01:06	jnthn	Or differently, at least.
01:06	TimToady	$x.WHAT can very easily give you a nameless type
01:06	jnthn	Yes. Nominal is a bad word for the thingy I wanted to express.
01:06	TimToady	not much nominal about that
01:06	jnthn	Indeed.
01:07	jnthn	It'd probably be worth trying to document our terms for this stuff a bit more somewhere.
01:07	TimToady	but fine for the declared type, as in the meaning of nominal: "that which we assume"
01:08	TimToady	as in "Larry is nominally a linguist" :)
01:08	jnthn	;-)
01:09	jnthn	OK, I think we're agreeing. Or at least, agreeing more than disagreeing. :-)
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01:10	moritz_	now if you want to make me happy, put the intersection of your agreeing into the spec somewhere ;-)
01:11	* jnthn	points at TimToady: he's in a far better timezone for being coherent than me ;-)
01:14	moritz_	speaking of timezones... it's 3AM, I should try to get some sleep too
01:14	moritz_	TTFN
01:15	jnthn	aye, 3am here too...I should perhaps do similar :-)
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01:42	pugs_svn	r28709 \| lwall++ \| [S06]
01:42	pugs_svn	r28709 \| document both nominal and storage aspects of ::T capture
01:42	pugs_svn	r28709 \| clarify that T does not require an exact match
01:42	pugs_svn	r28709 \| rename section to En passant type capture
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03:31	pugs_svn	r28710 \| lwall++ \| [Cursor] switch back to YAML::XS because Syck can't load STD.pm.syml
03:34	diakopter	o_O
03:35	TimToady	why t/spec/S05-grammar/std.t was coredumping
03:36	TimToady	sorry if you have to download XS
03:36	TimToady	XS is a bit faster, actually
03:37	diakopter	viv already used ::XS
03:37	TimToady	hah
03:37	TimToady	maybe that's why cursor could load using Syck :)
03:37	TimToady	well, probably not
03:38	* diakopter	runs make again 2C what he canC
03:38	TimToady	make clean
03:38	diakopter	k
03:42	diakopter	./tryfile STD.pm took about 4% less time than r28709
03:42	diakopter	within the error margin for linux64 in vmware on win64
03:43	diakopter	how would one run a nytprof on ./tryfile STD.pm
03:44	diakopter	(to get the .html results you pasted awhile back)
03:44	diakopter	(is there a switch somewhere)
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03:45	TimToady	perl -d:NYTProf tryfile STD.pm, I think
03:47	* diakopter	builds perl-devel-nytprof from svn trunk
03:51	diakopter	JSON::Any depends on JSON::DWIW, but it doesn't say it does.
03:54	diakopter	er something.
03:55	pugs_svn	r28711 \| kyle++ \| [t/spec] Tests for "note" based on "say" tests
03:55	pugs_svn	r28712 \| kyle++ \| [t/spec] more testing of bare say
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03:58	davidm123	is there a robust implementation of perl6 sigils in perl5? (not some source filtering hack)
03:59	TimToady	I don
03:59	TimToady	I don't know of any such
03:59	TimToady	it would be difficult to bypass the lexer without a source filter
04:00	TimToady	that's one of the reasons Perl 6 does it differently :)
04:01	davidm123	the peculiarities of perl5 sigils have been known for many years.
04:01	davidm123	one might think there were some bandaid (not that we need to wait a decade for perl6 :) )
04:01	TimToady	alas, we brainwashed people too thoroughly about the righteousness of Perl 5's sigil system
04:03	TimToady	unfortunately, to change the sigils, you have to change how the slices work, and when you do that, there are ramifications on how context must be applied lazily rather than eagerly
04:08	* diakopter	continues to wait for nytprof tryfile std
04:09	diakopter	go go gadget cpu fan
04:11	diakopter	hrm. 400MiB nytprof.out
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04:15	diakopter	methinks for the next attempt I'll export NYTPROF=stmts=0
04:15	TimToady	the stmts are the cool part
04:16	diakopter	ok 08:27 367m - 644785257 2009-10-06 03:51 nytprof.out
04:16	diakopter	erm. time must be off.
04:17	diakopter	well, not _time_, but the vm's clock. :)
04:18	diakopter	phenny: where'd you go
04:19	diakopter	Profile of tryfile for 519s, executing 50114444 statements and 7876888 subroutine calls in 120 source files and 923 string evals.
04:20	diakopter	only 923?
04:22	diakopter	how did 44947 calls to Cursor::_STARr take -424s
04:22	diakopter	(exclusive)
04:24	TimToady	bbl &
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04:28	KyleHa	A grep for 'quietly' in the spec turns up exactly one line. It's a list with 'try' and 'void' and stuff. It was added at the same time as 'note'. Does it suppress $*ERR or something?
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05:00	JimmyZ	rakudo: List.HOW.parents(List).perl.say;
05:00	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«[Any, Object]␤»
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06:38	pugs_svn	r28713 \| lwall++ \| [viv] unbitrot -6 roundtripping; also unbitrot some -5 functionality
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09:42	mikehh	rakudo (1b83557) builds on parrot r41789 make test / make spectest_smolder (up to 28713 -> #28801) PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64
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10:06	mikehh	holy ... rakudo spectest_smolder reports tests as 35,121 ok, 0 failed, 520 todo, 6,851 skipped and 0 unexpectedly succeeded
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10:10	carlin	almost 7000 skipped?
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10:16	pmurias	perl6: my @array = [];@array[1] = 23;@array[500] = 4;say @array.elems;
10:17	p6eval	sprixel 28713: OUTPUT«Sprixel Error: /_infix__S_Equal_/ not yet implemented; apologies from the crew!␤»
10:17	p6eval	..elf 28713, pugs, rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«501␤»
10:18	pmurias	S32/Containers.pod mentions that in sparse types elems should return the actuall number of elems, why should the user know about an implementation default?
10:19	moritz_	pmurias: I think "sparse types" are things like hashes
10:20	pmurias	Sparse array types
10:22	moritz_	hm
10:22	moritz_	my @a is SparseArray; ?
10:23	pmurias	not specced
10:23	moritz_	aye
10:23	pmurias	what should it change? how elems works? how map works?
10:23	moritz_	but it would only make sense in that context
10:23	moritz_	that's an interesting question
10:24	moritz_	I only know sparse vectors and matrices from linear algebra packages
10:24	moritz_	if you map over one, it wouldn't make sense to iterate over all the missing items
10:24	moritz_	so it would have to indicate which element is currently being processed
10:25	moritz_	so maybe it'd just passin a pair of index => value to the map closure?
10:27	pmurias	you mean in SparseArray map would work differently (get an additional index)?
10:27	moritz_	yes
10:27	moritz_	but I think that's not something you worry about when implementing the classical Array type
10:27	pmurias	wouldn't it be best to just move SparseArray to CPAN and delete the mention?
10:28	moritz_	+1
10:28	moritz_	so feel free ;-)
10:29	moritz_	fglock++ btw
10:32	pugs_svn	r28714 \| pmurias++ \| [mildew-js] t/01-sanity/05-sub.t passes
10:32	pugs_svn	r28715 \| pmurias++ \| remove mention of sparse arrays from S32
10:33	pmurias	bjj&
10:36	moritz_	http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/misc/fun-and-no-fun-with-svg.html # for the SVG fans - not quite Perl 6 though :)
10:44	spinclad	rakudo: my @s is SparseArray; for @s.kv -> $k, $v { ... }
10:44	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'trait_mod:is'␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:204)␤»
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10:47	spinclad	i don't think map or for should work differently (for @s { ... } would iterate densely), as .kv should already be available to display sparseness.
10:47	moritz_	that's a decision best left to the one who implements it as a module ;-)
10:48	spinclad	sure
10:48	spinclad	but i'd design it on those principles
10:48	moritz_	well, .map could also do evil magic
10:48	moritz_	like, assume the block is pure
10:49	moritz_	and the result for a missing element
10:53	spinclad	... so @sparse.map would give another sparsearray. yeah, i could see that.
10:54	spinclad	(in which case i don't yet see why the block would have to know which element.)
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11:10	masak	best weekend salutations, #perl6!
11:10	masak	finally the work week is over, and the real coding begins!
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11:38	masak	"Complexity is never eliminated, merely reduced or displaced" -- slide 124 of http://www.slideshare.net/cxpartners/secrets-of-simplicity -- sound familiar? :)
11:39		abra joined #perl6
11:45	masak	moritz_: (re SVG animations) I find http://www.codedread.com/yastgame.php to be quite an impressive proof-of-concept. seems much can be done today with SVG and judicious JavaSCript.
11:51		NorwayGeek joined #perl6
11:53	jnthn	masak: heh, sounds like the waterbed theory of... :-)
11:53	masak	indeed.
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11:56	* jnthn	is probably caught up on sleep now
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11:59	masak	jnthn: welcome back! it's so amazing to be part of Rakudo development right now -- even more so now that you're back and doing commits. :)
12:00	sjohnson	hey man
12:00		NorwayGeek joined #perl6
12:00	jnthn	masak: I enjoyed my trip, but it is nice to be back and hacking on stuff again.
12:01	masak	sjohnson: yo frood.
12:02	moritz_	masak: \o/ cool site. But I was actually referring to SVG animations without JS
12:02	moritz_	http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/animate.html
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12:04	jnthn	masak: It's exciting that at the same time both regex/parsing issues and signature binding issues are being worked on - two of the biggest tasks that need doing before Rakudo *. :-)
12:05	* jnthn	feels like hacking on more Rakudo stuff today
12:05	masak	moritz_: I know. but JS is a workaround.
12:10	moritz_	just like in the days of Netscape and Mosaic ;-)
12:11	masak	except it's on different levels of sophistication.
12:12	jnthn	Yeah, now it's three or four browsers instead of 2 that you have to worry about. ;)
12:12	jnthn	Only two possibilities was so 1990s, man.
12:13	moritz_	doing websites just for fun means that I can ignore those pesky not-quite-browsers which refuse to render according to standards
12:17	cosimo	moritz_: which ones?
12:17	moritz_	IE\d for some values of \d
12:19	jnthn	I actually have some clients where they consider the cost of supporting IE6 higher than the revenue supporting it would bring in.
12:19	* jnthn	loves having a business case for not supporting IE6.
12:19	jnthn	On the other hand, there are others where systems are still used by many in the corporate world, many of whom are stuck with IE6, so it has to be supported.
12:19	moritz_	some big sites (not sure which ones... digg? youtube?) are slowly dropping IE6 support
12:20	jnthn	nod
12:20	jnthn	I'm not surprised. They're businesses too.
12:20	jnthn	And need to make moneys.
12:20	jnthn	In general, it goes "don't do anything to purposefully break IE6, but don't worry about any bugs too much either"
12:23		JimmyZ joined #perl6
12:27	moritz_	my homepage still has 0.5% access with IE 4 gulp
12:28	moritz_	don't know how many of these referrers are forged, though
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12:31	jnthn	4?!
12:32	moritz_	4
12:32	pugs_svn	r28716 \| jimmy++ \| [zh-cn/syn/S02-bits.pod] added a bit random translations.
12:35	masak	I'm seeing false positive "Redeclaration of variable $pub" errors in some moderately complex code I'm toying with. I haven't had time to isolate the cause, but I'm pretty sure it's a rakudobug.
12:35	jnthn	Oddness.
12:35	jnthn	But quite possibly.
12:36	jnthn	masak: Does std warn in the same way?
12:36	jnthn	If not, I expect we'll inherit a fix during switching more to that.
12:36	moritz_	now you're starting with pubs too?
12:36	masak	moritz_: I did it to make you happy!
12:36	masak	didn't want to use $foo or something.
12:36	moritz_	:-)
12:36	jnthn	$pub! \o/
12:37	JimmyZ	spectest-progress.csv hadn't been updated for some days.
12:37	masak	jnthn: sure, but I have my Rakudo user hat on. I prefer to see this bug classified and reported in RT, regardless of its possible fate in the near future.
12:37	masak	JimmyZ: I think pmichaud has too much fun with his nqp-rx repo :)
12:38	masak	er, too much fun to care about administrivia, not too much fun in general.
12:39	jnthn	masak: Oh, I wasn't advocating not reporting it, just speculating on how it might get fixed. :-)
12:39	JimmyZ	masak: ;)
12:40	masak	jnthn: since it has no adverse effects, there's no rush. better to fix the postcircumfix:<{ }> parsin issue, for example. :)
12:40	masak	s/sin/sing/
12:41	jnthn	We have a postcircumfix parsing issue?
12:41	masak	oh, yes.
12:42	masak	two, actually. but the second one is run-time, not parsing.
12:43	masak	the parsing issue causes Rakudo to be confused whenever it sees a line-ending closing block curly without a semicolon, as soon as someone declares a method postcircumfix:<{ }>.
12:43	masak	the run-time issue prevents direct use of .{} inside a postcircumfix:<{ }> method. ditto .[] and postcircumfix:<[ ]>.
12:44	JimmyZ	this issue? I think I had met it.
12:45	masak	the second one is workaroundable. I've been meaning to write that in the ticket.
12:45	masak	just do the inner hash or array access in another class.
12:46	jnthn	masak: oh, ouch
12:46	jnthn	I think I know how to fix the runtime one
12:46	masak	the first one is... highly... annoying. things that used to work suddenly stop working when a postcircumfix:<{ }> is introduced.
12:46	jnthn	The parsing one is, I'm afraid, rather more confusing...
12:46	jnthn	But then, I'm not the parsing whizz.
12:46	* masak	neither
12:47	JimmyZ	rakudo: class Alpha { has @!a = < beta gamma >; method postcircumfix:<[ ]>($key) { return @!a[$key]; }; }; my $a = Alpha.new; say $a[1];
12:47	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«No such attribute '@!a'␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:204)␤»
12:47	JimmyZ	rakudo: class Alpha { has @!a = < beta gamma >; method postcircumfix:<{ }>($key) { return @!a[$key]; }; }; my $a = Alpha.new; say $a{1};
12:47	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«gamma␤»
12:48	masak	aye, that's the one.
12:48	masak	accesses of the same type as the one the method is declaring don't work.
12:48	JimmyZ	the parser was confused.
12:49	masak	well, something was. :)
12:50	masak	the 'No such attribute @!a" comes from the fact that the method makes a _second_ call to itself, with the @!a array as invocant. Naturally, it has no @!a.
12:51	jnthn	oh, youch.
12:51	jnthn	And yes, I think I know how to fix that one.
12:51	jnthn	But I'm currently in the middle of giving signautre objects storage for default value closures and stubbing in storage of sub-signatures.
12:52	masak	jnthn++
12:52	masak	no rush.
12:52	JimmyZ	jnthn++ again.
12:52	jnthn	After those are done, I think signature objects will have everything the binder could possibly want to know.
12:53	masak	JimmyZ: how's the translation work going?
12:54	JimmyZ	I had somebody else on the working team. Do I describe it rightly ?
12:55	jnthn	had or have? :-)
12:55	moritz_	rakudo: say ~{ a=>3 b=>10 c=>4 d=>-7>}.sort: -*.value
12:55	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "b=>10 c=>4"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:204)␤»
12:55	masak	JimmyZ: you reqcruited a co-worker?
12:55	moritz_	rakudo: say ~{ a=>3 b=>10 c=>4 d=>-7>}.sort: *.value
12:55	masak	s/q//
12:55	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "b=>10 c=>4"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:204)␤»
12:55	JimmyZ	masak: yep
12:55	moritz_	rakudo: say ~{ a=>3 b=>10 c=>4 d=>-7}.sort: *.value
12:55	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "b=>10 c=>4"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:204)␤»
12:55	moritz_	rakudo: say ~{ a=>3, b=>10, c=>4, d=>-7}.sort: *.value
12:55	masak	JimmyZ: or should I say 翻译工作怎么样? :)
12:55	jnthn	std: say ~{ a=>3 b=>10 c=>4 d=>-7}.sort: *.value
12:55	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«d -7 a 3 c 4 b 10␤»
12:55	p6eval	std 28716: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/2ehl3pCybl line 1:␤------> [32msay ~{ a=>3 [33m⏏[31mb=>10 c=>4 d=>-7}.sort: *.value[0m␤ expecting any of:␤ bracketed infix␤ infix stopper␤ standard stopper␤ statement modifier loop␤ terminator␤FAILED 00:01
12:55	p6eval	..110m␤»
12:55	masak	moritz_: commas.
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12:55	JimmyZ	masak: good ;)
12:55	moritz_	rakudo: say ~{ a=>3, b=>10, c=>4, d=>-7}.sort: -*.value
12:55	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«get_number() not implemented in class 'Sub'␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:204)␤»
12:55	moritz_	masak: aye
12:56	moritz_	rakudo: say *.value.perl
12:56	JimmyZ	masak: a better one. 翻译工作做的怎么样了。
12:56	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«{ ... }␤»
12:56	moritz_	rakudo: say *.value.WHAT
12:56	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«Block()␤»
12:56	moritz_	that should be a WhateverCode
12:56	moritz_	which explains why -*.value doesn't work
12:56	masak	JimmyZ: ah. thanks.
12:56	masak	JimmyZ: 了 because the work is ongoing?
12:57	JimmyZ	masak: yep
12:57	masak	\o/
13:00	jnthn	(paradise lost)++ # nice sig hacking music
13:01	masak	today's spec test results are in: PASS. good work, people.
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13:02	jnthn	phew
13:02	jnthn	masak: Don't worry, I'll probably fail at linker usage and break the build on some platform today. :-/
13:02	jnthn	Actually, maybe I'll do that in a branch. :-)
13:03	moritz_	(easy branching)++
13:03	moritz_	git++
13:04	masak	the reason I'm not complaining more about the lack of useful line numbers in Rakudo error messages, is that by now, I'm used to it.
13:04	masak	seems we had useful line numbers for a while, but not long enough for me to get used to that. :P
13:05	jnthn	So you get un-useful ones now? :-/
13:05	masak	well, I get files that aren't mine and numbers that don't make sense.
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13:06	jnthn	ah, that
13:06	moritz_	at gen_setting.pm:1192 or so
13:06		JimmyZ joined #perl6
13:06	jnthn	nod
13:06	moritz_	and there's nothing interesting at that line either ;-)
13:06	moritz_	just a closing curly bracket or so
13:06	masak	actually, I've been getting lower line numbers lately. 204 or so.
13:07	* moritz_	wonders if they'll become negative eventually :-)
13:08	colomon	Did Rakudo stop returning line numbers for errors in ordinary code somewhere along the line as well?
13:08	moritz_	rakudo: die 'foo'
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13:08	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«foo␤in Main (/tmp/TRISBPtRJn:0)␤»
13:08	moritz_	wow, line 0
13:08	moritz_	that used to work.
13:08	colomon	Looking at my hacking last night, it seems like the error messages are much better, but lack line numbers.
13:09	jnthn	Ouch.
13:09	* jnthn	suspects some Parrot change. :-/
13:11	moritz_	typical for things we don't test.
13:12	jnthn	Yeahbut we do have some tests for annotations stuff in Parrot at least.
13:12	moritz_	jnthn: how much work would it be to change format from (%s:%d) to (file %s, line %d)?
13:12	jnthn	Evidently, not good enough ones.
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13:12	jnthn	moritz_: little, but motivation?
13:12	moritz_	it currently looks like noise
13:13	moritz_	and I notice that even in perl 5, many newbies ignore the line numbers, even if they contain valuable information
13:13	KyleHa	rakudo: say()
13:13	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near ""␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:2555)␤»
13:13	moritz_	and not explicitly stating that it's a line number will only increase that
13:13	JimmyZ	rakudo: say 'foo'
13:13	moritz_	KyleHa: parse errors still seem to have correct line numbers
13:13	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«foo␤»
13:13	JimmyZ	rakudo: exit 'foo'
13:13	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: ( no output )
13:14	jnthn	moritz_: Feel free to tweak it.
13:14	jnthn	moritz_: It's in perl6.pir, there's a sub I think for generating the output.
13:14	jnthn	Light PIR hacking required. :-)
13:15	KyleHa	Is 'say()' actually an error?
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13:15	jnthn	KyleHa: aye
13:15	KyleHa	rakudo: say ()
13:15	jnthn	std: say()
13:16	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«␤»
13:16	p6eval	std 28716: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 103m␤»
13:16	jnthn	but not one that std catches.
13:16	KyleHa	std: say ()
13:16	p6eval	std 28716: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
13:16	jnthn	KyleHa: say() and say () are different things.
13:16	KyleHa	jnthn: Guess so. I'll adjust my tests...
13:16	colomon	rakudo: say;
13:16	jnthn	:-)
13:16	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near ";"␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:2538)␤»
13:17	jnthn	moritz_: Oh, I found the constraints introspection bug, btw
13:17	moritz_	\o/
13:17	colomon	Is there some good reason we shouldn't support say with no arguments?
13:17	moritz_	colomon: perl 5 hackers who think it defaults to $_
13:17	jnthn	moritz_: I'd typo'd the named parameter when calling the constructor. :-S
13:17	colomon	moritz_: ..... aye, that's a good reason.
13:18	moritz_	colomon: I sometimes find that annoying, and want a 'no perl5_compat;' pragma ;-)
13:18	JimmyZ	I just want print "\n",can't I just use 'say'?
13:18	moritz_	JimmyZ: that's what we've just discussed.
13:19	colomon	well sure, it seems like a horrible kludge to have this elegant say command that replaces print "\n" in every case except the simplest.
13:19	JimmyZ	rakudo: print "\n";
13:19	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«␤»
13:19		NorwayGeek joined #perl6
13:19	carlin	rakudo: say '';
13:19	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«␤»
13:19	jnthn	rakudo: sub nl() { print "\n" }; nl
13:19	jnthn	;-)
13:19	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«␤»
13:20	pugs_svn	r28717 \| kyle++ \| [t/spec] say() really is an error
13:22	pugs_svn	r28718 \| kyle++ \| [t/spec] much faster test of the same thing
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13:28	jnthn	masak: oh ouch, I found a snag in fixing that postcircumfix bug...it's not quite so easy after all :-/
13:28	moritz_	pmichaud had an analysis of that bug a few days ago
13:29	masak	jnthn: don't let yourself get distracted by my ranting. it's not urgent anyway.
13:29	moritz_	http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2009-10-05#i_1570424 and onwards
13:29	moritz_	masak: if you remeber the ticket number, maybe you could add that IRC log link to the ticket
13:30	masak	moritz_: good idea. I will.
13:30	masak	I'll also add my workaround.
13:31	masak	rakudo: my %h = a => "b"; my @a = {%h}; say @a.perl
13:31	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«[{ ... }]␤»
13:31	masak	by S04:1324, this should be a hash, not a closure.
13:31	masak	is this known/ticketed?
13:31	jnthn	masak: Yeah, I'm gonna leave it.
13:32	jnthn	masak: What I was going to do is a bit of a workaround anyway, though not a really awful one.
13:32	moritz_	masak: it's tested at least
13:32	jnthn	But it tickles another issue, so needs a tad more thought.
13:32	masak	moritz_: oki.
13:32	jnthn	masak: That one should be a hash? ah.
13:33	jnthn	Just means tweaking the thingummy that decides. :)
13:34	jnthn	It'll be an issue somewhere in method circumfix($/, $key) {
13:35	jnthn	oh, I think I see what's wrong
13:35	jnthn	rakudo: my %h = a => "b"; my @a = {%h, a => 42}; say @a.perl
13:35	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«[{"a" => 42}]␤»
13:35	jnthn	nod
13:35	jnthn	And you're sure by the spec {%h} is meant to be a hash, yes?
13:37	moritz_	yes
13:37	moritz_	the spec has that as an example explicitly
13:37	moritz_	$hash = { %stuff };
13:38	jnthn	Try this patch
13:38	jnthn	http://gist.github.com/206842
13:40	jnthn	Bwaha. So env.t has failed on my platform for a little while...probably some weird Parrot and Win32 issue. Anyway, I just glanced the error message. :-)
13:41	jnthn	t\spec\S02-magicals\env...................................ok 8/14Failed allocation of 1919968627 bytes
13:41	jnthn	Parrot VM: PANIC: Out of mem!
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13:49	moritz_	it tries to allocate 1.8G at once? :-)
13:51	jnthn	yeah!
13:52	jnthn	OK, when I came back from vacation, Rakudo + the version of Parrot we were using then took 1.06s to start and say hello world. Rakudo today with just about latest Parrot is down to 0.79 for me.
13:52	moritz_	cool
13:53	jnthn	Which is still way too much, but a decided improvement.
13:56	jnthn	yay
13:56	jnthn	t\spec\S06-signature\introspection........................ok 5/39 skipped: various reasons, 2/39 unexpectedly succeeded
13:56	jnthn	TODO PASSED tests 33, 36
13:56	jnthn	I'm guessing thow are the constraitns ones.
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14:14	carlin	rakudo: my $i = 0; loop { $i++; if $i == 5 { break; } if $i < 10 { die ''; } }; say 'Foo';
14:14	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«Died␤in Main (/tmp/nqspaAZxaQ:2)␤»
14:14	carlin	rakudo: my $i = 0; loop { $i++; if $i == 5 { break; } if $i > 10 { die ''; } }; say 'Foo';
14:14	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«␤Died␤in Main (/tmp/EPevxgOixK:2)␤»
14:15	carlin	rakudo: say break.WHAT;
14:15	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«␤Null PMC access in find_method()␤in Main (src/gen_setting.pm:204)␤»
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14:17	colomon	carlin: isn't it "last" rather than break?
14:18	carlin	rakudo: my $i = 0; loop { $i++; if $i == 5 { last; } if $i > 10 { die ''; } }; say 'Foo';
14:18	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«Foo␤»
14:18	carlin	Ah
14:18	carlin	I was trying to figure out what 'break' was. Seems to just print a newline.
14:18	carlin	rakudo: break
14:18	p6eval	rakudo 1b8355: OUTPUT«␤»
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14:29	dalek	rakudo: bd7966f \| jonathan++ \| src/ (15 files):
14:29	dalek	rakudo: Start to store the default value as a closure inside the signature object. Also stub in space for sub-signatures - we don't support them just yet, but it'll be ready for when we do. Also fix a typo that caused constraints introspection to be broken.
14:29	dalek	rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bd7966f695b87d1ae9c192908045fbead1ee64f6
14:35	dalek	rakudo: 4cdac8a \| moritz++ \| perl6.pir:
14:35	dalek	rakudo: make backtraces a bit less noisy
14:35	dalek	rakudo: Hopefully marking line numbers with the word "line" makes their purpose more
14:35	dalek	rakudo: obvious.
14:35	dalek	rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4cdac8a020c0e98b53ed5f4dcee019adb8a80c15
14:36	jnthn	moritz++
14:37	jnthn	Also for tests, which have made me fix up one other thingy. :-)
14:37	pugs_svn	r28719 \| colomon++ \| [spec/t] Start of test file to give a solid workout to the operator overloading facilities.
14:41	jnthn	moritz_: patch looks good to me
14:43	pugs_svn	r28720 \| jnthn++ \| [t/spec] A little unfudging of some now-passing tests.
14:43	pugs_svn	r28721 \| jimmy++ \| [zh-cn/syn/S12-objects.pod] added Chinese transcript for S12, edgar++ for translation.
14:44	pugs_svn	r28722 \| jimmy++ \| [zh-cn/syn] updated README for edgar++
14:46	dalek	rakudo: 925fd06 \| jonathan++ \| src/ (2 files):
14:46	dalek	rakudo: Tweak to .constraints to pass another spectest.
14:46	dalek	rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/925fd06b2cf044a604b7aafbc99469eb4d28f4ef
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14:53	pmurias	ruoso: do you have any js experience?
14:56	colomon	jnthn: there is an excellent error message when there are multiple matching signatures, listing all the matches.
14:56	colomon	jnthn: is there any possibility of getting the same sort of message when you incorrectly call new?
14:57	colomon	right now you get something like "too many arguments passed (5) - 1 param expected" even though 4 arguments would have been fine...
14:58		am0c joined #perl6
15:01	jnthn	colomon: Yes.
15:02	jnthn	colomon: Once I get the binder re-working done, we'll have a lot more control over the error messages.
15:07	pmurias	perl6: say [].shift
15:07	p6eval	rakudo 925fd0: OUTPUT«Undefined value shifted from empty array␤␤»
15:07	p6eval	..sprixel 28722: OUTPUT«Sprixel Error: /_dotty__S_Dot_/ not yet implemented; apologies from the crew!␤»
15:07	p6eval	..elf 28722, pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
15:10	pmurias	we should spec what shifting an empty array does
15:11		TopoMorto joined #perl6
15:11	jnthn	pmurias: I suspect failure object (as Rakudo gives)
15:12	pmurias	rakudo: if ([].shift) {say
15:12	p6eval	rakudo 925fd0: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near ""␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 2540)␤»
15:12	pmurias	rakudo: if ([].shift) {say "a"} else {"b"}
15:12	p6eval	rakudo 925fd0: ( no output )
15:12	pmurias	rakudo: if ([].shift) {say "a"} else {say "b"}
15:12	p6eval	rakudo 925fd0: OUTPUT«b␤»
15:12	pmurias	rakudo: [].shift
15:12	p6eval	rakudo 925fd0: ( no output )
15:13	pmurias	jnthn: seems resonable, the spec should mention it though
15:14	jnthn	pmurias: Aye.
15:14	jnthn	Patches welcome. ;-)
15:15	pmurias	really? i'm thinking just commiting is the resonable thing here ;)
15:16	jnthn	:-P
15:19		zloyrusskiy joined #perl6
15:23	pugs_svn	r28723 \| pmurias++ \| [S32] Array.shift and Array.pop return a failure if the @array is empty
15:29	jnthn	I've just created a branch resig, which is holding the signature binding switch. At the moment all I've done is tweak the build process a bit so we build bind.dll (or whatever your platform's extension is).
15:29	jnthn	If anyone wants to test commit 42cbb57d621489be216d437d499aac8a996b33d5 and see if it builds on other platforms, and fix it if not, that's be great.
15:30	jnthn	And for the next days this is where I'll be committing stuff / progress.
15:30	masak	hm, src/gc/api.c:248: failed assertion 'PObj_is_PMC_TEST(obj)'
15:30	masak	that's bad, no?
15:30	jnthn	Yes. Where'd you hit that?
15:31	masak	in my awesome program.
15:31	masak	it sort of froze and then did that.
15:31	masak	I haven't tried to reproduce it yet.
15:31	jnthn	I did manage to get that one under the debugger recently but it was a tad heisenbug-ish and didn't happen not under the debugger. :-/
15:31	jnthn	I fear there's a lurking GC-ish bug.
15:32	masak	oh, doesn't matter. :) it occurs after the test I'm working on anyway. :P
15:32	jnthn	Oh wow
15:32	moritz_	jnthn: I spectestest your {%h}-is-a-hash patch, and it's all green (+1 passing TODO) - would you commit it?
15:33	jnthn	moritz_: Oh, I diff'd and then threw it away ;-)
15:33	jnthn	'cus I had a bunch of other bits going on
15:33	jnthn	Feel free to apply it yourself.
15:33	moritz_	ok
15:33	jnthn	masak: Heh. Crash is in Parrot_gc_mark_PMC_alive_fun it seems.
15:33	jnthn	I don't consdier this very fun. ;-)
15:34	masak	heh.
15:34	jnthn	Hmm
15:34	jnthn	Parrot_gc_mark_PMC_alive(INTERP, ctx->current_sub);
15:34	masak	aye, that is number 2 in my stacktrace.
15:34	jnthn	youch
15:35	jnthn	That's quite a deep stacktrace too.
15:35	masak	only 31 steps here.
15:35	masak	but it went away now.
15:35	masak	probably never existed.
15:35	masak	moving right along.
15:36	jnthn	Sadly, it very much exists. :-(
15:36	moritz_	cc: src/binder/bind.ar: No such file or directory
15:36	* carlin	got that too
15:37	pugs_svn	r28724 \| kyle++ \| [t/spec] [].shift and [].pop return Failure, per spec r28723
15:37	dalek	rakudo: 3208e7b \| jonathan++ \| src/parser/actions.pm:
15:37	dalek	rakudo: {%h} constructs a Hash, not a closure
15:37	dalek	rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3208e7b7fe7f8034f662b0025b942d2214b8203b
15:38	* KyleHa	loves spectest_smolder
15:39	KyleHa	jdv79++ # smolder spectest reporting
15:40	jnthn	moritz_: Hmm. I wonder if I shoulda used $(A) instead of $(AR) ?
15:40	moritz_	no idea... have to run now
15:40	jnthn	OK
15:40	moritz_	will look into it later tonight, hopefully
15:40	jnthn	moritz_: OK, thanks.
15:40	jnthn	It's probably going to be some days until this branch gets to the point of being ready to merge.
15:40	jnthn	masak: Seems a context holds a junk Sub pointer.
15:41	masak	jnthn: ok.
15:42	masak	oh ouch, now I got it again, much earlier in the test suite. :(
15:43	masak	guess I'll just insert comments and meaningless print statements until it starts working again.
15:43	masak	nobody promised that Perl 6 coding would be glamorous when I signed up... :)
15:47	jnthn	masak: Under the debugger, I see it right away at startup.
15:48	masak	meanwhile, over here, adding new stuff sporadically helped.
15:52	jnthn	masak: Ah, some exploration later, I fear we may just have an "access to uninit'd memory"
15:52	masak	that sounds reassuringly non-magical.
15:53	jnthn	Trying a
15:53	jnthn	ctx->current_sub = PMCNULL;
15:53	masak	I was afraid it might be something on the order of "we've freed this thing, but we can't know whether we have or not due to the Halting Problem".
15:53	jnthn	Since it seems we were init'ing most things, but not that
15:53	jnthn	Granted it will usually get filled with something meaningful.
15:54	diakopter	http://www.perlcabal.org/syn/S16.html reports an error at the bottom; also Basics.pod refers to S16 by an older name
15:55	diakopter	also syn/index.html refers to S16 by even another name
15:56	jnthn	oh hey, the segfault went away
15:56	* jnthn	runs Parrot tests, then commits
15:58	colomon	jnthn: (re better error reporting) yay!
16:02	diakopter	anyone: which S16 is correct
16:02	diakopter	title
16:04	TimToady	agh, p{} must die, I think
16:04	pmurias	diakopter: the most correct S16 lives in the pugs repo
16:04	jnthn	masak: Fix committed to Parrot.
16:04	jnthn	masak: Bump to PARROT_REVISION coming.
16:04	masak	jnthn++
16:04	jnthn	That was a happily easy gc segv to fix.
16:05	pmurias	TimToady: what's wrong with it?
16:05	TimToady	uses up a common letter, unlike q
16:06	TimToady	qp is okay
16:06	Tene	What is p{} ?
16:06	pmurias	path quoting
16:07	Tene	Ah.
16:07	diakopter	pmurias: yes, all three of those titles I mentioned live in the pugs repo
16:07	* colomon	now pondering a song with the lyric "p curly brace must die"...
16:08	diakopter	in syn/index.html it's called "IO / User / Group", S16 calls itself "IO / Name Services", and S32 Basic.pod refers to it as "IPC / IO / Signals"
16:08	pmurias	diakopter: the TITLE section in S16 seems to sugges IO / Name Services
16:11	dalek	rakudo: 27d9f14 \| jonathan++ \| build/PARROT_REVISION:
16:11	dalek	rakudo: Bump PARROT_REVISION to get a fix I just put in for a segfault.
16:11	dalek	rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/27d9f14b0e0ffb9aa1898ea32dc27961e955c953
16:11	jnthn	masak: ^^
16:11	masak	thank you.
16:12	jnthn	Welcome. The fact that I was about to write a bunch of C-code and Parrot segfaulted during Rakudo startup under my debugger was kinda an extra incentive to fix that one. :-)
16:13		rhr_ joined #perl6
16:14	masak	(aligning goals)++
16:18	pugs_svn	r28725 \| colomon++ \| [t/spec] Enough tests to roughly establish that is_approx works for Vectors.
16:21	colomon	hokey smokes, that was a lot of patching to Rakudo, considering I pulled yesterday...
16:24	jnthn	colomon: Myabe you pulled yesterday before I merged a branch.
16:24	colomon	I thought I pulled after, but I could have been wrong.
16:25	jnthn	Well, I've done some other little bits since the branch too.
16:25	jnthn	However, right now it's branch time again. :-)
16:25	jnthn	ooh...actually, right now is go to the shops to buy something for dinner before they close time...
16:30		SmokeMachine joined #perl6
16:31	masak	good idea.
16:32		msmatsko joined #perl6
16:35		lucs joined #perl6
16:37	lucs	rakudo: say "What is the evalbot's nick?"
16:38	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«What is the evalbot's nick?␤»
16:38	lucs	Aha.
16:38	lucs	(Maybe the /topic should mention that.)
16:39	masak	sure, but why?
16:39	lucs	Because I don't use it often, I never remember it, and it pollutes the channel to have to do what I just did :)
16:40	lucs	(I prefer to /msg it)
16:41	masak	oh. now I understand your reason.
16:41	dalek	nqp-rx: a0788f8 \| pmichaud++ \| src/Regex/Cursor-builtins.pir:
16:41	dalek	nqp-rx: Add some builtin subrules to Cursor.
16:41	dalek	nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/a0788f8a7eaac5a14f3c63a231eb0a17da93b17d
16:41	dalek	nqp-rx: 86f5d68 \| pmichaud++ \| (8 files):
16:41	dalek	nqp-rx: Add lexical $�.
16:41	dalek	nqp-rx: Add subrule matching -- non-capturing and non-backtracking as yet.
16:41	dalek	nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/86f5d68869a4f607c8dcf7d4fb4191ee46d5ea6b
16:43	masak	whoz op? could someone add p6eval's nick to the topic?
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16:52	lucs	So, suggested /topic: »ö« \| http://perl6.org/ \| nopaste: http://paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 \| evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo: / pugs: / std: , or /msg p6eval perl6: ... \| irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ \| UTF-8 is our friend!
17:01		gavv joined #perl6
17:03	* jnthn	back from shops.
17:04		Topic for #perl6is now »ö« \| http://perl6.org/ \| nopaste: http://paste.lisp.org/new/perl6 \| evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo: / pugs: / std: , or /msg p6eval perl6: ... \| irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ \| UTF-8 is our friend!
17:04	jnthn	yaz op!
17:04	lucs	Thanks :)
17:05	masak	yayjnthnzop!
17:06	masak	food &
17:10	pugs_svn	r28726 \| pmurias++ \| [mildew-js] say FETCHes it's arguments, basic array support
17:15	jnthn	.oO( how many people are writing a Perl 6 => js compiler now? :-) )
17:16	pugs_svn	r28727 \| lwall++ \| [S04,S06]
17:16	pugs_svn	r28727 \| Placeholders may never be used in a hash composer.
17:16	pugs_svn	r28727 \| Explain how this means map always works right even if it's map { $_ => 1 }
17:16	pugs_svn	r28727 \| Placeholders @_ and %_ may be used standalone, not just with other placeholders.
17:16	pugs_svn	r28727 \| Explain how this makes P5 subs fall out naturally, more or less
17:16	pugs_svn	r28727 \| Clarify that $_ is a placeholder only in the absence of other placeholders.
17:16	pugs_svn	r28727 \| Mention how if statements don't pass anything to implicit $_ blocks even if
17:16	pugs_svn	r28727 \| they have an optional $_ in the signature.
17:18	pmurias	jnthn: fglock, diakopter and mberends, and me
17:20	TimToady	well, apparently I am too, insofar as STD is being used :)
17:20	TimToady	and viv
17:21	pmurias	you are writting 2 js compilers ;)
17:21	pmurias	s/js/to js/
17:21	* TimToady	stands on a stump and pounds his chest
17:21	pmurias	as both mildew and sprixel use STD
17:21	* TimToady	wonders why his ribs hurt now
17:23	jnthn	hehe
17:25	jnthn	Heh. The day I patch the hash composer, the spec relating to it gets patched too. :-)
17:25	Tene	whirlpool, jnthn
17:25	TimToady	yes, well, I patched the spec because I was backlogging and didn't remember about { %stuff }
17:25	jnthn	Indeed.
17:26	TimToady	and noticed I hadn't hacked in the new no-placeholders policy that fixes map
17:26		KyleHa joined #perl6
17:26	TimToady	most of the changes are simplifications, and the only casualty I can see is the proviso about embedded @_ not seeing the outer @_
17:27	TimToady	which seems like a small loss
17:27	TimToady	since we'll be encouraging people to translate to real signatures anyway
17:27	jnthn	Aye, it looks sane at first glance.
17:28		gavv left #perl6
17:28	TimToady	and most existing uses of @_ in P5 are not embedded in an inner block anyway
17:28	KyleHa	Most.
17:28	KyleHa	I bet there's one or two programmers out there who do it All The Time.
17:29	Tene	OMG DARKPAN
17:29	TimToady	and we're immune to the backwards compatibility argument that plagues p5l :)
17:29	KyleHa	I'm more than happy to irritate those one or two programmers. 8-)
17:29	TimToady	In fact, we have to break a few eggs to prove we're making an omelet.
17:30		diakopter joined #perl6
17:34	pugs_svn	r28728 \| pmurias++ \| [mildew-js] add true method to integers
17:35	pmurias	KyleHa: they'll just switch to using $^a,$^b...$^z ;)
17:38		melba joined #perl6
17:43	TimToady	Fortunately, being allergic to eggs doesn't make you allergic to egg metaphors. Or maybe unfortunately...
17:44	pugs_svn	r28729 \| kyle++ \| [t/spec] todo test passes now
17:45	jnthn	.oO( what an eggcellent thought )
17:45	TimToady	Or maybe not maybe.
17:46		felipe joined #perl6
17:47	pugs_svn	r28730 \| diakopter++ \| [evalbot] remove sprixel from evalbot during its soul replacement therapy.
17:48		p6eval joined #perl6
17:48	diakopter	to clarify: during sprixel's soul replacement, not evalbot's soul replacement.
17:50	* jnthn	hopes the soul is being replaced with heavy metal, not hip-hop
17:53		melba joined #perl6
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17:55	diakopter	gregorian chants ^ symphonic sci-fi soundtracks
17:56	pmurias	diakopter: what does the soul replacement therapy consit of
17:56	jnthn	diakopter: ooh, not bad
18:01	diakopter	pmurias: making the sprixel.setting generated by ... stuff
18:02	* pmurias	doesn't undestand
18:03		mberends joined #perl6
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18:03	* mberends	backlogs desperately hurriedly... what's this about sprixel's soul?
18:10	TimToady	well, everyone knows that a backend has no soul, unless maybe you're a dinosaur with a hindbrain
18:11	mberends	so maybe sprixel needed sole replacement instead?
18:14	diakopter	just.. now that the interpreter engine proved itself enough [in my mind at least] and I'm [mentally] comfortable with the way STD/viv is presenting the AST, I'm reworking how the interpreter engine does dispatch entirely... so basically stripping interp.js and builtins.js back down to essentially nothing. Then, we'll be building up the setting in Perl 6 (with jseval (aka Q:PIR {})) in place of most function bodies, until a proper dependency tree is deri
18:14	diakopter	Then, we'll be building up the setting in Perl 6 (with jseval (aka Q:PIR {})) in place of most function bodies, until a proper dependency tree is derived for the setting files, and then the routine bodies will be able to be replaced with Perl 6 bodies.
18:14	diakopter	sigh
18:15	diakopter	so at first, the only classes that need written in solely JS will be Routine, Signature, Parameter, and their dependencies.
18:18		slavik joined #perl6
18:20	mberends	diakopter: ok, that's an extension of what you wrote earlier. does that mean that most of the code in builtins.js is obsolete?
18:21	diakopter	yes, as well as in interp.js :)
18:22	diakopter	b/c almost all of those function bodies were keyed by names that are setting-dependent
18:23	diakopter	that whole dispatch scheme should be viewed only to support a proof-of-concept (where the concept is the interpreter engine)
18:23	diakopter	it'll be much more efficient to write all of that in Perl 6 in the setting... even as jseval '' embedded heredocs or whatever
18:23	diakopter	no 'hardcoding'
18:24	mberends	will testing sprixel have to be put on hold until this rewrite reaches a certain minimum functionality again?
18:25	diakopter	yes, tho the interfaces shouldn't change... I mean, Test.pm.js will change a lot I'm sure, but your harness/system shouldn't break
18:26	mberends	the harness now passes 427 tests here on the old interpreter :)
18:26	diakopter	oh :D well cool
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18:28	TimToady	diakopter: I'm much happier with the type structure of viv now with respect to --p5, thanks for the attitude adjustments :)
18:29		lumi joined #perl6
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18:35	diakopter	oh, another big change: now that STD/viv generates/attaches data structures representing the lexical pads (and implied signatures!) to each routine/block, block invocation will use the JS-converted editions of those data structures directly
18:36	diakopter	essentially I want to get the interpreter engine to the point where it merely handles control flow; all other "node type" dispatch will hopefully be done by in-Perl-6 dispatching
18:40	diakopter	hopefully the circularity saw can exist in several places at once
18:41	diakopter	while cutting other places
18:41	mberends	is any of it running yet?
18:42	diakopter	it tries, but I keep catching it and pressing delete
18:42	diakopter	:)
18:44	mberends	just don't let it crawl ;)
18:45		ejs joined #perl6
18:46	diakopter	well, while I'm at it, I might as well create a Continutation_State JS object that's a lot smarter about cloning itself
18:47	diakopter	instead of cloning the ast nodes themselves
18:47	diakopter	Continuation_State, I meant
18:52		pmurias joined #perl6
18:53	diakopter	that way, each ast node actually can keep some global state (incl whether (and how "much") that node has been 'compiled' or preprocessed)
18:54	mberends	that's interesting, a kind of JIT processing apparently
18:54	diakopter	so, each node type can do some initialization work that doesn't need to be repeated for every execution of its 'instance' nodes
18:55	diakopter	sorta; maybe better described as smart caching
18:55	diakopter	er, flexible caching
18:56	mberends	yep, some cacheing of metadata generated at runtime as opposed to parse time
19:01	diakopter	each cstate (continuation state) object represents an 'activation' of an ast node, and each ast node represents an occurrence (instance) of each node_type (the VAST type as it's received from viv)
19:05	pugs_svn	r28731 \| lwall++ \| [Cursor] sometimes accidentally propagated _ast out of <?before> and <?after>
19:05	pugs_svn	r28731 \| [viv] get all the way back to being able to translate EXPR to Perl 5 correctly, yay!
19:06	mberends	lwall++ indeed
19:11	mberends	diakopter: then shouldn't node_type construct cstate instead of cloning itself? (different data structures)
19:12	diakopter	exactly
19:13	pugs_svn	r28732 \| mberends++ \| [sprixel] harness-fudging.pl can skip complete code blocks, spectest.data skip and todo directives are formatted like function calls
19:16	pugs_svn	r28733 \| colomon++ \| [t/spec] All the basic functions tested.
19:16	colomon	Ack, that looks like it needs more info to mean anything in this context. All the basic functions tested in my new operator overloading test. Time to get hyper...
19:17	* jnthn	hands colomon the energy drinks
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19:26	colomon	rakudo: say [&&] 1, 1, 1, 1, Bool::True;
19:26	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near " [&&] 1, 1"␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 2545)␤»
19:26	colomon	rakudo: say 1 && 1;
19:26	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:27	colomon	rakudo: say 1 && Bool::True;
19:27	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:27	colomon	rakudo: say [&&] (1, 1, 1, 1, Bool::True);
19:27	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near " [&&] (1, "␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 2545)␤»
19:27	colomon	rakudo: say all(1, 1, 1, 1, Bool::True);
19:27	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«all(1, Bool::True)␤»
19:29	quietfanatic	Oh, by the way...
19:29	quietfanatic	rakudo: say()
19:29	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near ""␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 2562)␤»
19:29	quietfanatic	rakudo: &say()
19:29	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«␤»
19:29	quietfanatic	^ that.
19:29	colomon	:O
19:29	jnthn	lol
19:29	jnthn	std: &say()
19:29	jnthn	std: &say.()
19:29	p6eval	std 28733: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 134m␤»
19:29	p6eval	std 28733: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 132m␤»
19:29	jnthn	std: say()
19:29	p6eval	std 28733: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 103m␤»
19:29	jnthn	oh, it doesn't check at all. fine.
19:30		__ash__ joined #perl6
19:30	colomon	BTW, just wrote this to implement the heart of is_approx_array: all((@got >>-<< @expected)>>.abs.map({$_ <= 0.00001}))
19:31	colomon	Can't decide if it is brilliant or unutterably scary.
19:31	mberends	it's neat :)
19:31	quietfanatic	Makes sense to me.
19:31	jnthn	Scarilly brilliant?
19:33	colomon	I haven't really internalized the >>.abs syntax yet.
19:33	colomon	Nor "all", for that matter.
19:34	jnthn	colomon: erm, yeah, ...you're constructing a junction, so >>. is just .
19:34	jnthn	oh wait
19:34	jnthn	the all is around all of it.
19:34	colomon	yes.
19:34	jnthn	Yes, it's right. :-)
19:34	* jnthn	is filling out the new binder :-)
19:35	colomon	Hmm... turns out my local "is_approx_array" doesn't work because Test.pm doesn't export proclaim (or something like that.
19:35	colomon	("local" here means in t/spec/S06-operator-overloading/workout.t)
19:36	moritz_	ok() is pretty close to proclaim
19:36	colomon	Any wisdom on the best way to handle that?
19:36	colomon	but it will screw up the test skipping code, won't it?
19:36	moritz_	you can add #?DOES 1 before your testing function
19:36	moritz_	then fudge learns that it's a test function like is()
19:37	colomon	trying that now....
19:37	colomon	yay!
19:41	colomon	looks like it skips, too.
19:41	colomon	moritz_++
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19:50	colomon	yay! bug!
19:50	colomon	I think it's reported, but I don't think it has a test suite entry before this.
19:56	pugs_svn	r28734 \| colomon++ \| [t/spec] First wave of hyper tests.
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20:14	colomon	So, one of the weird thing about the hyper operator bugs is how some things fail when you use >> and some when you use ».
20:15	jnthn	Wow.
20:15	jnthn	And...ouch...
20:17	mberends	that kind of weirdness is similar to http://www.grymoire.com/Unix/CshTop10.txt
20:17	jnthn	mberends: Yeah, but here it's a bug. ;-)
20:18	mberends	jnthn: Yeah, but that means it gets fixed... eventually ;-)
20:19	jnthn	Eventually. ;-)
20:19	pugs_svn	r28735 \| colomon++ \| [t/spec] Test hyper on user-defined (rather than user-overloaded) operators.
20:19	* jnthn	just wrote the first, completely untested, cut of some code that should solve one of the oldest RT tickets we have. :-)
20:20	mberends	yay!
20:20	colomon	If you do svn up on the t/spec/S06-operator-overloading directory and look at the workout.t file, the skipped tests trigger the bugs I'm talking about.
20:21	colomon	Honestly, I'm surprised at how well the hyper operators are doing with my tests. I was under the impression they were even more fragile.
20:22	jnthn	colomon: I really like that we're doing more exhaustive testing of the various permutations.
20:22	jnthn	For operating overloading and hypers and the various other meta-operators.
20:24	__ash__	does perl6 support/willsupport function composition? like if i did something like: &z= &f . &g; maybe?
20:24	__ash__	so z = f(g(x))
20:25	colomon	__ash__: you can always do it with closures.
20:25	colomon	something like
20:26	colomon	std: sub Comp(Code $a, Code $b) { return { $a($b($_)); }; };
20:26	p6eval	std 28734: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 115m␤»
20:26	colomon	I've not tested that, but I think something along those lines ought to work.
20:26	jnthn	rakudo: sub infix:<comp>(&x, &y) { return -> $a { x(y($a)) } }; sub f($x) { 2 * $x }; sub g($x) { $x + 2 }; my $z = &f comp &g; $x(20)
20:26	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«Symbol '$x' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/5KjFpmwii1:2)␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
20:27	jnthn	rakudo: sub infix:<comp>(&x, &y) { return -> $a { x(y($a)) } }; sub f($x) { 2 * $x }; sub g($x) { $x + 2 }; my $z = &f comp &g; $z(20)
20:27	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: ( no output )
20:27	jnthn	rakudo: sub infix:<comp>(&x, &y) { return -> $a { x(y($a)) } }; sub f($x) { 2 * $x }; sub g($x) { $x + 2 }; my $z = &f comp &g; say $z(20)
20:27	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«44␤»
20:27	colomon	rakudo++
20:27	jnthn	rakudo: sub infix:<comp>(&x, &y) { return -> $a { x(y($a)) } }; sub f($x) { 2 * $x }; sub g($x) { $x + 1 }; my $z = &f comp &g; say $z(20)
20:27	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«42␤»
20:27	jnthn	\o/
20:27	__ash__	yeah, i figured you could do something like that, just define an operator
20:27	jnthn	I don't know that you can have '.' though
20:28	jnthn	rakudo: sub infix:<.>(&x, &y) { return -> $a { x(y($a)) } }; sub f($x) { 2 * $x }; sub g($x) { $x + 1 }; my $z = &f . &g; say $z(20)
20:28	__ash__	well, haskell uses infix '.' thats all
20:28	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«42␤»
20:28	jnthn	heh heh
20:28	jnthn	std: sub infix:<.>(&x, &y) { return -> $a { x(y($a)) } }; sub f($x) { 2 * $x }; sub g($x) { $x + 1 }; my $z = &f . &g; say $z(20)
20:28	p6eval	std 28734: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Obsolete use of . to concatenate strings; in Perl 6 please use ~ instead at /tmp/2gotXXIWVi line 1:␤------> [32mx }; sub g($x) { $x + 1 }; my $z = &f . [33m⏏[31m&g; say $z(20)[0m␤FAILED 00:02 133m␤»
20:28	jnthn	Yeah, I thought that is what would happen. :-)
20:29	jnthn	Well... use Haskell; :-)
20:30	colomon	I've been toying with the notion of defining a class for math functions using closures like that.
20:31	__ash__	i was asking about perl6, just wonder, its a toy feature of some functional programming languages and since i heard perl6's motto is all your paradigms all belong to us, i thought i'd ask
20:31	__ash__	i only know a little haskell, its was just an example
20:31	__ash__	how would you get it to handle more paramters? like if they took x and y, instead of just x
20:31	__ash__	rakudo: sub infix:<.>(&x, &y) { return -> $a { x(y($a)) } }; sub f($x, y) { 2 * $x, 2 * $y }; sub g($x, y) { $x + 1, $y + 1 }; my $z = &f . &g; say $z(20, 20);
20:31	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«Unable to parse multisig; couldn't find final ')' at line 2, near ", y) { 2 *"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
20:32	__ash__	sub infix:<.>(&x, &y) { return { x(y($_)) } }; sub f($x, $y) { 2 * $x, 2 * $y }; sub g($x, $y) { $x + 1, $y + 1 }; my $z = &f . &g; say $z(20, 20)
20:32	jnthn	__ash__: Well, my answer really is, even if standard Perl 6 doesn't provide such an operator, it provides you a very easy way to write a library that looks pretty natural.
20:32		araujo joined #perl6
20:32	__ash__	rakudo: sub infix:<.>(&x, &y) { return { x(y($_)) } }; sub f($x, $y) { 2 * $x, 2 * $y }; sub g($x, $y) { $x + 1, $y + 1 }; my $z = &f . &g; say $z(20, 20)
20:32	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed (2) - at most 1 param expected␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 206)␤»
20:33	jnthn	__ash__: Take the multiple parameters.
20:33	jnthn	return -> $a, $b { ... }
20:34	jnthn	Or *@params to take as many as you want, and you can flatten with \|@params when passing, or similar.
20:34	__ash__	sub infix:<.>(&x, &y) { return -> \|@params { x(y(@params)) } }; sub f($x, $y) { 2 $x, 2 * $y }; sub g($x, $y) { $x + 1, $y + 1 }; my $z = &f . &g; say $z(20, 20)
20:35	__ash__	rakudo: sub infix:<.>(&x, &y) { return -> \|@params { x(y(@params)) } }; sub f($x, $y) { 2 $x, 2 * $y }; sub g($x, $y) { $x + 1, $y + 1 }; my $z = &f . &g; say $z(20, 20)
20:35	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "-> \|@param"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
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20:36	__ash__	I haven't done any of that parameter magic
20:37	__ash__	how would you do that right?
20:38	quietfanatic	I think you have the * and \| backwards.
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20:38	quietfanatic	rakudo: sub infix:<.>(&x, &y) { return -> @params { x(y(\|@params)) } }; sub f($x, $y) { 2 $x, 2 * $y }; sub g($x, $y) { $x + 1, $y + 1 }; my $z = &f . &g; say $z(20, 20)
20:38	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (1) - 2 params expected␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 206)␤»
20:38	quietfanatic	Hmm.
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20:39	jnthn	quietfanatic: yes, you're right
20:39	jnthn	quietfanatic: I think just wants to be x(y(\|@params), y(\|@params))
20:39	jnthn	For the two param case.
20:40	__ash__	i wonder how to do it so it doesn't matter the number of paramters...
20:40	quietfanatic	I think it wants to be something like x(\|@(y(\|@params)))
20:40	quietfanatic	if the @() syntax works in rakudo
20:41	quietfanatic	rakudo: sub infix:<.>(&x, &y) { return -> @params { x(\|@(y(\|@params))) } }; sub f($x, $y) { 2 $x, 2 * $y }; sub g($x, $y) { $x + 1, $y + 1 }; my $z = &f . &g; say $z(20, 20)
20:41	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«4242␤»
20:41	__ash__	you can drop the @ after \|
20:41	quietfanatic	rakudo: sub infix:<.>(&x, &y) { return -> @params { x(\|y(\|@params)) } }; sub f($x, $y) { 2 $x, 2 * $y }; sub g($x, $y) { $x + 1, $y + 1 }; my $z = &f . &g; say $z(20, 20)
20:41	__ash__	rakudo: sub infix:<.>(&x, &y) { return -> @params { x(\|y(\|@params)) } }; sub f($x, $y) { 2 $x, 2 * $y }; sub g($x, $y) { $x + 1, $y + 1 }; my $z = &f . &g; say $z(20, 20)
20:41	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«4242␤»
20:41	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«4242␤»
20:41	quietfanatic	__ash__ :)
20:42	jnthn	And the world was filled with happiness. :-)
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20:49	__ash__	how do you find the length of a string?
20:49		mikehh_ joined #perl6
20:49	__ash__	rakudo: say "«".chars;
20:50	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«1␤»
20:50	__ash__	hmm
20:50	__ash__	on my terminal that puts 2
20:50	__ash__	weird
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20:52	Tene	__ash__: in the repl or in a script?
20:52	__ash__	okay, that works when you do it from a file, but doing it in a terminal returns 2, must be the encoding of the terminal or something
20:52	Tene	__ash__: there are issues with utf encoding in the repl
20:53	__ash__	okay, got ya
20:54	jnthn	omgwtfgithelp!
20:54	jnthn	http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commits/resig shows no commits since the last time I pushed
20:54	jnthn	However, git push origin resig complains about non-fast-forward.
20:55	jnthn	How might this happen?
20:57	Tene	jnthn: you could have branched from an earlier commit.
20:57	Tene	jnthn: git fetch; git rebase origin; git push
20:57	Tene	try that.
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20:59	jnthn	Tene: Ah, did a pull, resolved whatever it thought was the problem and it's let me push now.
20:59	jnthn	But thanks
20:59	* jnthn	still not quite sure what happened...
20:59	Tene	ah
21:00	Tene	spooky.
21:00	jnthn	Anyways, http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commits/resig has latest.
21:00	jnthn	Should still build fine for now.
21:00	jnthn	Will continue to fill it out and migrate us to this new binder in the next few days. :-)
21:01	jnthn	Just making it work first, but there'll be a bunch of chances for optimization later too.
21:02	Tene	jnthn: if you run gitk, you'll see what happened.
21:03	Tene	see how you have "re-work binder into a library of its own" in there twice, with different parents?
21:04	jnthn	yeah
21:04	jnthn	hmm
21:04	Tene	you must have rebased that commit on top of master, then pushed to the branch, or something.
21:04	jnthn	I'm still not sure how I managed that one.
21:04	jnthn	oh, I wonder if I pushed to the wrong place at some point. :-S
21:04	Tene	yeah, that could be it, maybe.
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21:05	jnthn	Ah, but that patch hasn't ended up in master. Phew. :-)
21:30	moritz_	jnthn: replacing .$(AR) with $(O) makes your branch build on linux
21:31	moritz_	(tried in Makefile directly, not in build/Makefile.in)
21:31	jnthn	erm, with $(O) ?!
21:31	jnthn	oh, erm.
21:31	jnthn	Yes, I can see why that would work.
21:31	jnthn	Trouble is
21:32	jnthn	You've just linked two copies of the same code separately into two other dynamic libraries.
21:32	moritz_	and bloated the binary that way
21:32	jnthn	Rather than building it once and linking against that one copy.
21:32	jnthn	Yeah
21:33	jnthn	I fear that the two libraries having the same exported symbol will cause...fun...too :-)
21:33	jnthn	oh, well, maybe not actually
21:33	jnthn	I guess it'll be OK.
21:33	moritz_	with that build spectest seems to run fine so far
21:33	jnthn	Yeah
21:33	jnthn	I'm sorta pondering that building it as a separate library is a bad idea.
21:33	moritz_	anyway, have to go to bed now, more investigation tomorrow
21:34		eternaleye_ joined #perl6
21:34	jnthn	I want to bundle it in with the dynpmcs really but the dynops need to be able to call it too...
21:34	jnthn	Anyway, there's a while to find a solution before this merges. Sleep well. :-)
21:36	dalek	nqp-rx: b0e696b \| pmichaud++ \| src/Regex/Cursor.pir:
21:36	dalek	nqp-rx: Remove some obsolete methods from Cursor.
21:36	dalek	nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/b0e696bf7dfded473872b13aade629fcb36b54c2
21:36	dalek	nqp-rx: 5ecd319 \| pmichaud++ \| src/Regex/Cursor.pir:
21:36	dalek	nqp-rx: Partial change of match stack to a cursor stack, update bstack handling.
21:36	dalek	nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/5ecd31941c3d6483f4751108d1b51b67704ceed7
21:36	dalek	nqp-rx: 7b01e97 \| pmichaud++ \| src/Regex/Cursor.pir:
21:36	dalek	nqp-rx: Manage cstack on mark_fail.
21:36	dalek	nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/7b01e976627a08108493df3f0f96d5fc3f30d4f6
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22:32	diakopter	std: {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{say 33}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
22:32	p6eval	std 28735: OUTPUT«Deep recursion on subroutine "LazyMap::lazymap" at Cursor.pm line 824.␤Deep recursion on subroutine "LazyMap::lazymap" at Cursor.pm line 824.␤Deep recursion on subroutine "LazyMap::lazymap" at Cursor.pm line 609.␤Deep recursion on anonymous subroutine at Cursor.pm line 677.␤Deep
22:32	p6eval	..re…
22:33	diakopter	rakudo: {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{say 33}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
22:33	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 206)␤»
22:33	jnthn	lolfail
22:33	KyleHa	Lucky we're not writing lisp.
22:34	diakopter	jnthn: :) I thought you'd like that one
22:35	jnthn	diakopter: Parrot sets a default max rec depth to make debugging easier - we can clear that though to support deeply recursive code if we like. :-)
22:35	jnthn	otoh the depth is 1000
22:35	jnthn	That isn't so many curlies to overall take us to that. :-)
22:36	diakopter	rakudo: {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{
22:36	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 206)␤»
22:36	jnthn	:-)
22:36	diakopter	(parsing)
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22:36	jnthn	Yes, it's hitting it in parsing, for sure.
22:37	diakopter	(same with std)
22:37	KyleHa	rakudo: eval ('{' x 100) ~ 'say "oh hai"' ~ ('}' x 100)
22:37	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«oh hai␤»
22:37	jnthn	huh, it works for eval?!
22:38	KyleHa	rakudo: eval ('{' x 1000) ~ 'say "oh hai"' ~ ('}' x 1000)
22:38	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: ( no output )
22:38	jnthn	ah. :-)
22:38	KyleHa	rakudo: eval ('{' x 500) ~ 'say "oh hai"' ~ ('}' x 500)
22:38	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: ( no output )
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22:38	KyleHa	rakudo: eval ('{' x 250) ~ 'say "oh hai"' ~ ('}' x 250)
22:38	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: ( no output )
22:39	KyleHa	rakudo: eval ('{' x 150) ~ 'say "oh hai"' ~ ('}' x 150)
22:39	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: ( no output )
22:39	jnthn	rakudo: my $n = 100; $n++ while eval(('{' x $n) ~ ' 1 ' ~ ('}' x $n)); say $n;
22:39	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: TIMED_OUT
22:39	KyleHa	jnthn++
22:39	jnthn	aww
22:47	TimToady1	what you don't see there is that std actually succeeded in parsing it, since that was just a warning
22:48	diakopter	yep; with 'no warnings;' it's hunkily dorily
22:50	diakopter	rakudo: say ('.' x 200000000 ~~ /.+/).chars
22:50	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«200000000␤»
22:50	diakopter	(impressive)
22:51	KyleHa	I'm looking at this ticket: http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=65272
22:51	KyleHa	It uses 'A.HOW.dispatch(.., ..)' That doesn't work anymore.
22:54	KyleHa	rakudo: class A { method x { say 'A' } }; class B is A { method x() { say 'B' } }; B.new.x; B.x;
22:54	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«B␤B␤»
22:54		eternaleye_ joined #perl6
22:54	jnthn	I'm not even sure if the ticket is correct...
22:54	KyleHa	Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
22:55	jnthn	.dispatch is API I guess
22:55	jnthn	But you're giving it an invocant B to work on, so the metaclass is going to care about its methods, probably.
22:56	jnthn	Anyway, I suspect it dates back to the days before you could write $x.A::x
22:59	KyleHa	Closed: crusty. 8-)
22:59	diakopter	std: goto: last goto
22:59	p6eval	std 28735: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
23:01	diakopter	std: last last last last last last last
23:01	p6eval	std 28735: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 104m␤»
23:02	KyleHa	rakudo: say <<:a(1)>>.perl
23:02	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«":a(1)"␤»
23:03	diakopter	std: last.last.last.last.last.last
23:03	p6eval	std 28735: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 103m␤»
23:04	diakopter	std: .goto.goto.goto.goto ** *
23:04	p6eval	std 28735: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 104m␤»
23:04	* diakopter	shrugs
23:07	KyleHa	This says <<:a(1)>> should interpolate a pair: http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=65304 Is that right?
23:09	quietfanatic	rakudo: say (* == 3).WHAT
23:09	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«!whatever_closure␤»
23:09	quietfanatic	rakudo: say (* ~~ 3).WHAT
23:09	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«Bool()␤»
23:10	quietfanatic	Should * also produce a WhateverCode for ~~?
23:11	* diakopter	flips a coin
23:12	KyleHa	S02 says yes, <<:a(1)>> should cough up a Pair object.
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23:37	diakopter	as dukeleto said yesterday, whoa nelly... this improved interpreter model gives a 50-100x speedup of arbitrary node evaluation
23:45	pugs_svn	r28736 \| kyle++ \| [t/spec] Mark test for RT #65304
23:46	pugs_svn	r28737 \| kyle++ \| [t/spec] Test for RT #65322
23:48	quietfanatic	Does anyone know how Perl namespaces map to Parrot namespaces?
23:48	quietfanatic	rakudo: $Place::thing = 4; Q:PIR {$P0 = get_hll_global ['Place'], '$thing'}; QPIR{say $P0}
23:48	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«4␤»
23:48	quietfanatic	This gets the right thing
23:48	quietfanatic	but
23:48	quietfanatic	rakudo: $Some::Place::thing = 4; Q:PIR {$P0 = get_hll_global ['Some::Place'], '$thing'}; QPIR{say $P0}
23:48	quietfanatic	This does not.
23:48	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«Null PMC in say␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 206)␤»
23:51	quietfanatic	rakudo: $Some::Place::thing = 4; Q:PIR {$P0 = get_hll_global ['Some';'Place'], '$thing'}; QPIR{say $P0}
23:51	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«4␤»
23:51	quietfanatic	Okay, I figured it out. :)
23:59	diakopter	rakudo: say (QPIR{}).WHAT
23:59	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«ResizablePMCArray: Can't shift from an empty array!␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 206)␤»
23:59	diakopter	rakudo: say (QPIR{say 3}).WHAT
23:59	p6eval	rakudo 27d9f1: OUTPUT«The opcode 'descalarref_p' (descalarref<1>) was not found. Check the type and number of the arguments␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 206)␤»

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