Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-10-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 jnthn japhb: Pisa, for the Italian Perl Workshop
00:01 jnthn It's only just over an hour's flight from here. :-)
00:02 japhb nice
00:02 japhb OOC, are most international Perl conferences done in English?
00:03 jnthn Most - in fact, probably all - are open to English language talks from foreign visitors.
00:03 jnthn But usually the majority of talks are in the language of the country it's the workshop for.
00:03 jnthn There are exceptions. For example, the Nordic Perl Workshop is done in English.
00:04 jnthn I was told, since the standard of English is very high there, it's easier to do that than to have people speaking in their own language, even though Danish/Swedish/Norwiegan are quite close.
00:05 jnthn But the majority (French Perl Workshop, Italian Perl Workshop, German Perl Workshop, etc) have most talks in their own language.
00:06 japhb OK, makes sense.
00:06 jnthn I mostly enjoy going to them to meet more Perl people, speak, visit a new city, and so on.
00:06 jnthn And can happily hack while talks are in a language I can't understand. :-)
00:07 japhb :-)
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00:16 cognominal jnthn, but you know well that english speakers are always welcome in french perl workshops :)
00:16 cognominal this year we got ingy
00:20 PapaChub joined #perl6
00:21 jnthn cognominal: Yes, FPW is very welcoming. :-)
00:21 jnthn Hopefully I make it next year.
00:25 nihiliad joined #perl6
00:25 * jnthn -> sleep
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01:17 colomon rakudo: say 3/4 < 1
01:17 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«1␤»
01:18 colomon rakudo: say 3/4 cmp 1
01:18 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Multiple Dispatch: No suitable candidate found for 'cmp', with signature 'PP->I'␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
01:19 colomon rakudo: say .5 cmp 1
01:19 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«-1␤»
01:19 carlin joined #perl6
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01:19 carlin quux: say OH HAI
01:19 * quux says OH HAI
01:20 carlin quux: buy jnthn a beer
01:20 * quux buys jnthn a beer
01:20 carlin quux: become sentient
01:20 * quux becomes sentient
01:21 nbrown phenny: tell jnthn I tried updating parrot to 41963 (the latest at the moment) and it didn't fix the issue with rakudo being unable to run the test suite
01:21 phenny nbrown: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
01:31 quux joined #perl6
01:32 carlin quux should hopefully now respond to pings, so I can leave it in the channel just for fun :-)
01:33 colomon quux: go home
01:33 * quux gos home
01:33 colomon :)
01:34 carlin quux has bad grammar :-(
01:34 colomon anyone on the channel understand WHICH?
01:35 colomon rakudo: class Rat is also { multi method WHICH() { self.Num; }; }; say 3/4 < 1
01:36 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«1␤»
01:36 colomon rakudo: class Rat is also { multi method WHICH() { self.Num; }; }; say 3/4 cmp 1
01:36 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Multiple Dispatch: No suitable candidate found for 'cmp', with signature 'PP->I'␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 288)␤»
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02:20 diakopter quux: die?
02:20 * quux dies ?
02:20 diakopter quux: quux:
02:20 * quux quuxs :
02:21 diakopter quux:
02:21 * quux s
02:21 * diakopter giggles
02:29 sjohnson hi
02:29 sjohnson quux: say 'hi';
02:29 * quux says 'hi';
02:29 sjohnson quux: help
02:29 * quux helps
02:29 sjohnson quux: child
02:29 * quux childs
02:29 sjohnson ... i KNEW it
02:30 PerlJam Anyone happen to know an email addres for someone at TO.pm?
02:33 PerlJam never mind. :)
02:38 diakopter quux: ace wild
02:38 * quux aces wild
02:40 sjohnson ... n1
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02:52 pugs_svn r28867 | kyle++ | [t/spec] more tests for duplicate sub params
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03:05 PerlJam moritz++  I finally got some time to sit down and go through the release process and was mildly shocked to see the 2009-10 announcement already there  :)
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03:24 cognominal PerlJam, we don't wait for the pmichaud branch to land?
03:28 PerlJam I'm not releasing *now*, but I am reviewing the process for Thu.
03:28 cognominal nice
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03:36 eternaleye PerlJam: That's the trouble about these darn 'active communities', people just jump in and get things done without any regard for the ceremony of it!
03:41 lumi joined #perl6
04:02 dalek rakudo: db1e525 | duff++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
04:02 dalek rakudo: Bump PARROT_REVISION for release
04:02 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d​b1e52519716594ffce5e08df657412c2e216e40
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04:17 diakopter will PARROT_REVISION work like that?
04:17 diakopter 41959 1.7.0
04:19 diakopter PerlJam: ^^
04:23 PerlJam diakopter: it did for me, and that's what the release guide says
04:24 PerlJam (and I looked at Configure.pl :)
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04:51 diakopter PerlJam: oh :)
04:59 pmichaud http://use.perl.org/~pmichaud/journal/39779  # new article about rakudo, nqp-rx, etc.
05:12 * PerlJam reads before bed
05:13 PerlJam The hardest part about the rakudo release so far seems to be all the waiting.
05:26 cognominal pmichaud++
05:30 quietfanatic joined #perl6
05:36 Schwern joined #perl6
05:38 * PerlJam sleep &
05:41 canhope joined #perl6
05:43 cognominal A refactoring of SVG.pm gives  Null PMC access in type() in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)
05:43 cognominal http://gist.github.com/214902
05:43 cognominal any idea?
05:51 quietfanatic cognominal: odd, the error seems to happen between parsing and running.
05:53 Bzek joined #perl6
05:55 quietfanatic cognominal: it is the 'Node' parameter in sub 'element'.
05:58 quietfanatic Removing the 'our' before 'subset' stops the error message.
05:58 quietfanatic Perhaps rakudo does not understand that.
05:58 quietfanatic I think subsets are 'our' by default anyway though, but I'm not sure.
06:08 cognominal thx
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06:14 cognominal is there a way to get errors as a stack trace?
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06:22 flip214 I bow my head before the great perl6 masters ...
06:22 flip214 and beg for answer to a few questions.
06:22 flip214 rakudo: our $a=46; our $b=6; say [*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) );
06:22 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«8145060␤»
06:22 flip214 rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) { say [*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) );} X(46,6);
06:22 p6eval rakudo 073d5e:  ( no output )
06:23 flip214 Any ideas why that line doesn't work in a sub?
06:23 flip214 And btw, does someone have a vim script for syntax highlightning of perl6?
06:26 dalek nqp-rx: 3de213c | pmichaud++ | src/ (2 files):
06:26 dalek nqp-rx: Handle :w (quote words) quote modifier .
06:26 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/3​de213c845f96e2be9385a6e0211499928c8ddb8
06:26 dalek nqp-rx: 5b85aa3 | pmichaud++ | src/ (4 files):
06:26 dalek nqp-rx: Simple test of subcalls in NQP.
06:26 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/5​b85aa3230809c8c9d9917b6be2779460e70bf6f
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06:32 quietfanatic flip214: the $a in map, I think, finds the our-scoped $a but not the parameter $a.
06:32 lumi joined #perl6
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06:33 quietfanatic I am not sure how that would be fixed, though
06:34 rfordinal joined #perl6
06:34 quietfanatic rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) { say [*] (1 .. $b).map( {($a - $_)/$_} );} X(46,6);
06:34 p6eval rakudo 073d5e:  ( no output )
06:35 diakopter semicolon
06:35 quietfanatic rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) { say [*] (1 .. $b X $a).map( -> $b, $a {($a - $b)/$b} );} X(46,6);
06:35 p6eval rakudo 073d5e:  ( no output )
06:35 quietfanatic oh yeah
06:36 quietfanatic rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) { say [*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) );}; X(46,6);
06:36 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«8145060␤»
06:36 * diakopter golf clas
06:36 diakopter claps
06:37 quietfanatic flip214: there you go :)
06:37 diakopter rakudo: sub X { say [*] (1 .. $^b).map( ($^a - *)/(*) ) }; X(46,6)
06:38 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«8145060␤»
06:38 diakopter o_O
06:38 diakopter $^a pulled from sub X and not from the inner....?
06:38 flip214 I don't quite see the difference between my line and the one from quietfanatic
06:39 quietfanatic It is the semicolon
06:39 diakopter flip214: there's an additional semicolon
06:39 flip214 rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) { say [*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) );}; X(46,6);
06:39 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«8145060␤»
06:39 flip214 Ok ...
06:40 diakopter quietfanatic: $^a (above)?
06:40 diakopter shouldn't $^a pull from the inner/implied block?
06:40 flip214 rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) returns Int { state %brain; return %brain{"$a $b"} ||= ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) )).Int;}; X(45,6);
06:41 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: TIMED_OUT
06:41 quietfanatic diakopter: No, I think WhateverCodes work differently
06:41 diakopter ok
06:42 quietfanatic infix:<-> gets an Any and Whatever as its arguments and that Any is already declared as a parameter.
06:42 quietfanatic I mean you know what I mean
06:43 * diakopter is trapped reading that last msg.
06:43 quietfanatic sry ^_^
06:44 quietfanatic It parses as a call to &infix:<->($^a, *)
06:44 * diakopter wonders how std parses it
06:44 quietfanatic If you said minus($^a, *), it makes sense that it would get the right $^a.
06:45 quietfanatic Another way of looking at it: those parens in ($^a - *) do not create a block.
06:45 diakopter yeah, it's just...
06:45 quietfanatic rakudo: say 3 - *
06:45 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«!whatever_closure␤»
06:46 diakopter rakudo: say( (3 - *)() )
06:46 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«too few arguments passed (0) - 1 param expected␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
06:46 diakopter rakudo: say( (3 - *)(*) )
06:46 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«!whatever_closure␤»
06:46 quietfanatic Heh
06:47 diakopter rakudo: say( (3 - *)(&say) )
06:47 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«2␤»
06:47 quietfanatic rakudo: say( (3 - *)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(3) )
06:47 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«0␤»
06:47 flip214 Any ideas why my last line doesn't work?
06:47 quietfanatic Oh the TIMED_OUT?
06:47 flip214 I used to do a normal factorial/(fact*fact), but that did give wrong results
06:47 quietfanatic It took longer than 15 seconds, so the evalbot killed it
06:47 diakopter 6 secs I think
06:47 flip214 for some calculations ... like 6 over 41.
06:48 quietfanatic 6 seconds?
06:48 quietfanatic Last I knew it was 15
06:48 quietfanatic rakudo: sleep 14
06:48 flip214 I think that was rounding of Num ... so I tried to rewrite it.
06:48 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: TIMED_OUT
06:48 quietfanatic rakudo: sleep 7
06:48 diakopter :)
06:48 p6eval rakudo 073d5e:  ( no output )
06:48 flip214 But the code mostly does the same as before ... Only that a state variable for caching is used
06:48 quietfanatic rakudo: sleep 13
06:48 flip214 rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) returns Int { state %brain; return %brain{"$a $b"} ||= ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) )).Int;}; X(45,6);
06:49 diakopter lol
06:49 diakopter rakudo: for (;;) {}
06:49 p6eval rakudo 073d5e:  ( no output )
06:49 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: TIMED_OUT
06:49 p6eval rakudo 073d5e:  ( no output )
06:49 diakopter I mean
06:49 diakopter rakudo: loop (;;) {}
06:49 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: TIMED_OUT
06:49 flip214 So a "sleep 13" works, but my simple function declaration with a 6-times-loop doesn't?
06:50 quietfanatic diakopter: Make sure that won't keep running forever on the server :)
06:50 diakopter oh yeah
06:50 flip214 "Da ist etwas faul im Staate Dänemark"
06:50 quietfanatic flip214: it's possible Rakudo is doing something wrong and infilooping or somehting
06:50 diakopter Load average: 0.81 0.84 0.59
06:51 flip214 rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) returns Int { state %brain; return %brain{"$a $b"} ||= ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) )).Int;}; X(45,6);
06:51 diakopter returns immediately here
06:51 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: TIMED_OUT
06:51 flip214 rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) returns Int { ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) )).Int;}; X(45,6);
06:51 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: TIMED_OUT
06:51 quietfanatic yeah you're right.
06:52 flip214 rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) returns Int { [*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) ) }; X(45,6);
06:52 lumi joined #perl6
06:52 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: TIMED_OUT
06:52 flip214 Am I on some blacklist or something?
06:52 diakopter no
06:52 diakopter p6eval@debian:~/rakudo$ time ./perl6 -e 'sub X(Int $a, Int $b) returns Int { state %brain; return %brain{"$a $b"} ||= ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) )).Int;}; X(45,6);'
06:52 diakopter real    0m3.596s
06:52 diakopter user    0m2.190s
06:52 diakopter sys     0m0.260s
06:52 quietfanatic rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) returns Int { ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) )).Int;}; X(45,6);
06:53 flip214 BTW, should a Rat with denominator 1 be returned as an Int?
06:53 diakopter that's on the p6eval vps
06:53 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: TIMED_OUT
06:53 quietfanatic I don't think it does that for you
06:53 diakopter oh you know what
06:53 diakopter !!
06:53 quietfanatic rakudo: say (1/1).perl
06:53 diakopter quietfanatic: lol
06:53 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«1/1␤»
06:54 diakopter magic exit value!
06:54 quietfanatic Oh?
06:54 quietfanatic Is it used for something else?
06:54 diakopter oh nm
06:55 diakopter rakudo: say $^a
06:55 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
06:55 diakopter rakudo: (*,say $^a)(1)
06:56 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤invoke() not implemented in class 'ResizablePMCArray'␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
06:56 diakopter that's a new one
06:56 diakopter rakudo: (*;say $^a)(1)
06:56 flip214 Should a Num to Int conversion do a bit of rounding, so that 123.9999 doesn't get 123 as Int value? I fell into that trap when I had my X function use factorials, for 6 over 41.
06:56 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤invoke() not implemented in class 'Boolean'␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
06:56 diakopter rakudo: ({say $^a})(55)
06:56 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
06:57 diakopter rakudo: {say $^a}(55)
06:57 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«55␤»
06:57 diakopter rakudo: {say "$^a"}(55)
06:57 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«55␤»
06:57 diakopter rakudo: {say "$^a"; say $a}(55)
06:57 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«55␤55␤»
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06:58 diakopter rakudo: sub X { state %brain; return %brain{"^$a ^$b"} ||= ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) ))}; X(45,6)
06:58 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Symbol '$a' not predeclared in X (/tmp/N6Ra9IkFr5:2)␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
06:58 diakopter yeah, oops.
06:58 diakopter rakudo: sub X { state %brain; return %brain{"$^a $^b"} ||= ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) ))}; X(45,6)
06:58 p6eval rakudo 073d5e:  ( no output )
06:59 diakopter rakudo: sub X { state %brain; return %brain{"$^a $^b"} ||= ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) ))}; say X(45,6)
06:59 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«7059052␤»
06:59 diakopter rakudo: sub X { state %brain; return %brain{"$^a $^b"} //= ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) ))}; say X(45,6)
07:00 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«7059052␤»
07:00 flip214 Ok, but there's no type definition for the parameters...
07:00 diakopter rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) { state %brain; return %brain{"$^a $^b"} //= ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) ))}; say X(45,6)
07:00 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Cannot use placeholder var in block with signature. at line 2, near " $^b\"} //="␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 2099)␤»
07:01 diakopter rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) { state %brain; return %brain{$a~" "~$b} //= ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) ))}; say X(45,6)
07:01 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«7059052␤»
07:01 diakopter rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) { state %brain; return %brain{$a~" "~$b} //= ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) )).Int }; say X(45,6)
07:01 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«7059052␤»
07:01 diakopter rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) returns Int { state %brain; return %brain{$a~" "~$b} //= ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) )).Int }; say X(45,6)
07:02 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: TIMED_OUT
07:02 diakopter it doesn't like "returns Int" in p6eval, but from the console it's fine
07:02 diakopter p6eval@debian:~/rakudo$ ./perl6 -e 'sub X(Int $a, Int $b) returns Int { state %brain; return %brain{"$a $b"} ||= ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) )).Int;}; say X(45,6);'
07:02 diakopter 7059052
07:03 diakopter hrm
07:03 flip214 Thank you for your efforts ... I'll try to make something of that.
07:03 diakopter rakudo: sub X(Int $a, Int $b) returns Int { state %brain; return %brain{$a~" "~$b} //= ([*] (1 .. $b).map( ($a - *)/(*) )).Int }; say X(45,6);
07:03 moritz_ good morning
07:03 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: TIMED_OUT
07:03 diakopter \0/
07:03 flip214 As soon as I put the "%brain{} ||= [*] ...;" line in my script, I get "get_number() not implemented in class 'Sub'."
07:03 flip214 What does that mean, exactly?
07:04 flip214 Hello moritz!
07:04 moritz_ it means that something tries to access the * as a number, in a way that rakudo doesn't support yet
07:07 lisppaste3 flip214 pasted "Over()" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89028
07:08 flip214 diakopter or moritz: would you be so nice and take a short look?
07:09 moritz_ flip214: try it with .map({ ($a+1 - $_) / $_ }); instead
07:09 moritz_ the { ... } produce a closure, and the * too
07:09 moritz_ so you had a closure which returns a closure, not which returns a number
07:12 Su-Shee joined #perl6
07:12 Su-Shee good morning
07:12 moritz_ good morning Su-Shee
07:15 flip214 moritz: is there some other, nice looking way?
07:15 diakopter quietfanatic: here's one for you
07:15 diakopter rakudo: {say $^a,$_}(1,a=>2)
07:15 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 1␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
07:15 quietfanatic hmyeah?
07:15 diakopter got 1 but expected 1
07:15 quietfanatic Probably...
07:15 quietfanatic what about
07:16 moritz_ no
07:16 quietfanatic rakudo: {say $^a,$_}(1,2)
07:16 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 2 but expected 1␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
07:16 moritz_ a => 2 bound to $^a
07:16 quietfanatic doesn't matter
07:16 moritz_ and 1 is the superfluous positional argument
07:16 diakopter but the error message says it expected 1 positional
07:16 diakopter and it also says it got 1 positional
07:17 quietfanatic It thought it was getting 1 positional but it was getting 2
07:17 quietfanatic the a=>2 in a named parameter format
07:17 quietfanatic but it bound to the position parameter $^a
07:17 diakopter rakudo: {say $^a,$_}(1,b=>2)
07:17 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'b' passed␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
07:18 diakopter rakudo: {say $^a,$_}(b=>1,2)
07:18 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'b' passed␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
07:18 quietfanatic because you can bind to positionals as though they were named.
07:18 payload joined #perl6
07:18 moritz_ right
07:18 diakopter rakudo: {say $^a,$_}(a=>1,a=>2)
07:18 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«2Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
07:18 lumi joined #perl6
07:18 diakopter rakudo: {say $^a}(a=>1,a=>2)
07:18 rfordinal joined #perl6
07:18 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«2␤»
07:19 quietfanatic Well I ought to go unconcious for a while.  later
07:19 diakopter rakudo: {say $^a}(a=>1,a=>2,a=>a=>3)
07:19 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«a  3␤»
07:19 quietfanatic diakopter: now that I didn't expect
07:19 quietfanatic oh no it's right never mind
07:19 diakopter rakudo: say a=>3
07:20 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'a' passed␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
07:20 diakopter meh
07:20 quietfanatic see, I'm running out of neurons.  Good night
07:20 moritz_ good night
07:20 diakopter 'nite
07:20 diakopter rakudo: say (a=>3)
07:20 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«a  3␤»
07:20 diakopter rakudo: say \(a=>3)
07:20 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«a  3␤»
07:20 diakopter rakudo: say \\(a=>3)
07:21 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«a  3␤»
07:21 diakopter rakudo: say \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\(a=>3)
07:21 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«a  3␤»
07:21 diakopter rakudo: say \*
07:21 quietfanatic diakopter: good night!
07:21 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«!whatever_closure␤»
07:21 moritz_ rakudo's \ handling is probably more wrong than right
07:21 diakopter quietfanatic: nite
07:22 diakopter rakudo: \say \1; \
07:22 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Syntax error at line 2, near "\\"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
07:22 diakopter rakudo: \say \1;
07:22 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«1␤»
07:22 diakopter cool
07:22 diakopter rakudo: \\\\\say\ \1;
07:22 quietfanatic I meant that as an suggestion.  nm
07:22 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near "\\ \\1;"␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 2565)␤»
07:22 diakopter lol
07:22 diakopter I thought you might have meant that
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07:22 diakopter rakudo: \\\\\say\ \\1;
07:22 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near "\\ \\\\1;"␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 2565)␤»
07:23 diakopter rakudo: \\\\\say\ .1;
07:23 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near "\\ .1;"␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 2565)␤»
07:23 diakopter rakudo: \\\\\say\1;
07:23 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«say requires an argument at line 2, near "\\1;"␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 2565)␤»
07:23 diakopter std: \\\\\say\1;
07:23 p6eval std 28867: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Confused at /tmp/adGI7hW5ZR line 1:␤------> [32m\\\\\say\[33m⏏[31m1;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤      postfix␤ postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤FAILED 00:01 106m␤»
07:23 diakopter rakudo: \
07:23 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Syntax error at line 2, near "\\"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
07:23 diakopter rakudo: \;
07:23 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Syntax error at line 2, near "\\;"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
07:24 diakopter rakudo: \*
07:24 p6eval rakudo 073d5e:  ( no output )
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07:24 diakopter rakudo: /*  */
07:24 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«perl6regex parse error: Quantifier follows nothing in regex at offset 12, found ' '␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
07:24 diakopter rakudo: /\/* .*/
07:24 p6eval rakudo 073d5e:  ( no output )
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07:26 masak morning, #perl6.
07:26 diakopter masak: hm. :|
07:27 moritz_ \o/ masak
07:29 diakopter masak: hi
07:29 masak moritz_: looking at the edit you made -- it's fine, but the examples say more than the text does. more specifically, the text sees nothing wrong with the last one, :($a, :@a), since it talks about 'a unique name (sigil included)'
07:29 masak we might want to re-word that.
07:29 diakopter rakudo: say loop (;;) { }
07:29 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "{ }"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
07:30 lumi joined #perl6
07:30 mathw Morning #perl6
07:30 mathw I have some tuits
07:30 * mathw wonders what to spend them on
07:30 moritz_ masak: aye, we should
07:31 moritz_ masak: I hope you agree that :($a, :@a) can't be filled unambiguosly
07:32 masak oh, sure.
07:32 masak that's a problem with both named parameters and public attributes.
07:32 masak mathw: I had a dream last night, and you sort of had a small role in it.
07:32 mathw Oh?
07:32 masak mathw: I was flirting with this girl, and you interrupted us to point out something about hashes in Perl 6.
07:33 mathw Oh dear
07:33 mathw Was she interested?
07:33 moritz_ lol
07:33 masak mathw: in me or in Perl 6?
07:33 mathw perl 6
07:33 masak I don't know, I sort of woke up.
07:34 masak she was cute, though.
07:34 masak some kind of clerk.
07:34 mathw There were lots of lovely people at the gig I was at last night
07:34 NorwayGeek joined #perl6
07:34 mathw Some of them were on stage
07:34 mathw One was behind the bar
07:34 mathw The rest were in the audience
07:34 mathw None of them were really talking to me though :(
07:35 NorwayGeek joined #perl6
07:36 masak you should try that hashes-in-perl6 opener.
07:36 masak it might work.
07:36 mathw Oh I know what I need to do with my tuits this morning
07:36 mathw and it's not Perl 6
07:36 mathw server migration
07:36 mathw sigh
07:36 masak :/
07:36 * diakopter rotfl at http://msdn.microsoft.com/e​n-us/beginner/cc963401.aspx
07:37 diakopter Learn about how computers work with code by thinking about how people listen to commands. Understanding the basics of commands makes it easier to understand why programs crash and how debuggin
07:37 mathw gone for a bit, migrating my irc client over...
07:37 diakopter "and how debuggin" indeed.
07:39 mathw joined #perl6
07:39 mathw joined #perl6
07:41 mathw Well, that worked
07:41 mathw hurrah
07:45 diakopter rakudo: sub X returns Int { $^a * $^b }; say X(45,6)
07:46 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: TIMED_OUT
07:46 diakopter masak: is that a known bug?
07:46 masak don't think so.
07:46 diakopter masakbot: addbug
07:46 moritz_ rakudo: say 3+5
07:47 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«8␤»
07:47 * masak adds bug
07:47 diakopter masak: kidding
07:47 diakopter it works on the console, just not in p6eval for some reason
07:47 masak diakopter: too late. :)
07:47 masak I was just about to check that.
07:47 diakopter (it's the "returns Int")
07:48 moritz_ well, p6eval is nice, but not all reliable
07:48 masak 对, it works fine locally.
07:49 diakopter actually
07:49 diakopter try it in a file
07:50 diakopter or stdin
07:50 moritz_ http://anonymoushash.vmbrasseur.com/2009/10​/topics-to-consider-for-perl-6-newbies.html # I already commented, but the comment waits for approval
07:50 moritz_ vmbrasseur++
07:52 masak indeed, vmbrasseur++
07:54 Su-Shee I've just read pmichaud's posting about refactoring over the next weeks and this always makes me wonder how much companies could learn from open source projects...
07:55 diakopter masak: did you try it from stdin?
07:55 masak diakopter: oh, sorry. didn't see that till now.
07:56 masak trying now.
07:56 pugs_svn r28868 | moritz++ | [S06] more consistency on name collisions in signatures, masak++
07:56 moritz_ Su-Shee: I think the first thing to learn (if they don't already) is to have an extensive test suite that makes such a refactor possible without too much risk
07:56 masak diakopter: both work here.
07:57 Su-Shee moritz_: but also: refactoring is needed, so just do it instead of pushing it further and further into the future.
07:57 masak moritz_: no, that's not exactly right either. :/ let me see if I can change it.
07:57 masak moritz_: you see, $a and @a _are_ fine in a signature.
07:58 diakopter masak: well, I'm watching rakudo execute that on the server, and it seems to be infinitely looping for 15s
07:58 masak moritz_: you just can't refer to them by name anymore.
07:58 moritz_ masak: they are not, if you try to bind them by name
07:58 masak moritz_: but that's a later issue.
07:58 moritz_ but maybe I was a bit too strict here
07:58 masak moritz_: here it's about the signature itself.
07:58 * masak fixes
07:59 moritz_ masak: as long as you still forbid things like :($a, :@a) at compile time, I'm fine
07:59 masak I wasn't planning to.
07:59 moritz_ basically $a and @a should only be allowed if both are positional
07:59 masak oh.
07:59 masak missed that second colon.
07:59 masak yes, that should be forbidden, too.
07:59 moritz_ ok
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08:09 masak how about twigils and naming collisions?
08:09 masak std: class A { has $.x; method foo($!x, $.x) {} }
08:09 p6eval std 28867: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 111m␤»
08:10 masak std: class A { has $.x; has @!x; method foo(@!x, $.x) {} }
08:10 p6eval std 28867: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 109m␤»
08:10 masak std: class A { has $.x; method foo($!x, $!x) {} }
08:10 p6eval std 28867: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 109m␤»
08:11 masak rakudo: class A { has $.x; method foo($!x, $!x) { say $!x } }; A.new.foo(42, "OH HAI")
08:11 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: TIMED_OUT
08:11 masak p6eval is in a mad mood today.
08:12 lumi joined #perl6
08:22 JimmyZ_ rakudo: 'oh'.say;
08:22 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«oh␤»
08:26 masak std: my $x; { say $x; my $x }
08:26 p6eval std 28868: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Lexical symbol $x (from line 1) is already bound to an outer scope implicitly␤  and must therefore be rewritten explicitly as OUTER::<$x> before you can␤  unambiguously declare a new $x in the same scope at /tmp/ZojMGdajnB line 1:␤------> [32mmy $x;
08:26 p6eval ..…
08:37 masak what are those ~83 failures? are they due to the 64 bit platform? http://smolder.plusthree.com/app/​public_projects/smoke_reports/18
08:38 moritz_ masak: autothreading.t segfaults on amd64 after printing the plan
08:38 masak oh.
08:38 moritz_ masak: and there's a Unicode related file that also crashes
08:38 moritz_ and aborts about ~5 tests
08:39 masak I'm doing a dry run today. so, under the assumption that I were the real release manager, what would I do with such failures?
08:40 moritz_ you'd temporarily regress on those
08:40 moritz_ or ask jnthn or pmichaud to fix them
08:41 moritz_ regressing can involve commenting them out from t/spectest.data
08:41 moritz_ or fudging them
08:41 masak nod.
08:41 moritz_ if you can't reproduce that on your architecture, you could ask me to fudge where appropriate :-)
08:41 masak sounds like something that should be fairly highly stigmatized.
08:41 moritz_ or I could give you access to a 64bit server where you can spectest yourself
08:41 masak considering that there might be an app somewhere out in the cheese using that particular feature.
08:42 moritz_ yes, it's unfortunate
08:42 moritz_ the segfaulting code will be replaced shortly after the release
08:42 moritz_ when the pcc revamp lands in parrot
08:43 masak so, the general rule is to release with all tests passing, even if that means regressing on a few tests?
08:43 moritz_ yes
08:45 masak gotcha.
08:46 pugs_svn r28869 | jimmy++ | [zh-cn/syn/S02-bits.pod] updated translations.
08:47 lumi joined #perl6
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08:50 pugs_svn r28870 | masak++ | [S06] third attempt at describing elusive name collision
08:51 moritz_ masak++
08:52 masak I changed the focus to be on naming collisions, and extrapolated the rest from that.
08:58 moritz_ it works better that way, yes
08:58 sjohnson how's it going masak ?
08:59 masak sjohnson: I've been feeling exceptionally well lately. how about you?
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09:16 moritz_ +token circumfix:sym<ang> { <?[<]>  <quote_EXPR: ':q', ':w'>  }
09:17 moritz_ that looks a bit work-aroundish :-)
09:18 sjohnson masak: so so :) not too bad though
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09:40 masak loliblogged! http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/39780
09:40 * JimmyZ_ reads
09:40 jnthn oh morning
09:40 phenny jnthn: 01:21Z <nbrown> tell jnthn I tried updating parrot to 41963 (the latest at the moment) and it didn't fix the issue with rakudo being unable to run the test suite
09:42 jnthn yaymasakblogged
09:42 jnthn But I gotta sort some silly other things out before I can read it.
09:43 lumi joined #perl6
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10:04 masak lunch &
10:10 lumi joined #perl6
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10:49 colomon PerlJam: Is TO.pm Toronto's Perl mongers group?
10:49 * colomon is very excited about tomorrow's trip to Toronto...
10:54 kentnl_ joined #perl6
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11:03 * jnthn finally joins the p6l roles discussion
11:03 masak DrunkGymnast++
11:04 jnthn ;-)
11:04 moritz_ indeed
11:05 jnthn masak: Maybe tonight you have one of *those* in your dream. ;-)
11:05 jnthn At least, until mathw interupts again.
11:05 masak I hate it when he does that.
11:06 masak I mean, Perl 6 hashes are interesting and all, but...
11:06 masak I really had something going with that chick.
11:06 jnthn Aww. :(
11:06 masak I'll see if she's still around next time.
11:06 jnthn Hmm. I just found a way to optimize multiple dispatch for traits
11:06 jnthn Or for a lot of them anyway.
11:06 moritz_ masak: you know, you can influence what you dream
11:06 hanekomu joined #perl6
11:07 masak moritz_: aye.
11:07 rfordinal3643 joined #perl6
11:07 moritz_ it takes a bit of practice, though
11:07 masak nod.
11:07 moritz_ and requires that you have "healthy" sleeping habits, not dropping dead into bed at the end of the day
11:07 moritz_ (which pretty much prevents me from doing it :-)
11:08 masak most of my creative dreaming takes place right before waking up.
11:08 moritz_ that's quite usual
11:08 jnthn Same.
11:09 jnthn Meh. Unfortunately, said optimization seems to win us little.
11:09 jnthn At startup.
11:09 jnthn 0.04s or so.
11:09 jnthn Ah well.
11:09 moritz_ better than nothing
11:09 jnthn Well, worth having in place too.
11:10 jnthn Trait application isn't so rare that it's not worth skipping something that can notably improve its performance that only takes a few lines of code.
11:11 * moritz_ wonders how many negations can meaningfully appear in a single statement
11:13 jnthn I'm not sure that we can't have an unlimited number, but I'm equally not unsure that it doesn't make sentences unreadable.
11:14 masak "I won't promise not to refrain from avoiding hurting you." is from Monkey Island I, I think.
11:14 masak rakudo: role Drinking { method buy_beer() { self.go_to_bar() }; method go_to_bar() { say "going to bar to drink" } }; role Gymnastics { method go_to_bar() { say "going to bar to do gymnastics" } }; class DrunkGymnast does Drinking does Gymnastics { method go_to_bar() { say "resolve conflict" } }; DrunkGymnast.new.buy_beer
11:15 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: TIMED_OUT
11:15 masak jnthn: shouldn't that output 'going to bar to drink'?
11:15 masak (locally, it says 'resolve conflict')
11:16 moritz_ it should after jnthn's proposal
11:16 moritz_ but not by current spec
11:16 masak oh, I see.
11:16 masak I thought it was established fact already.
11:16 jnthn moritz_: Correct.
11:16 jnthn masak: No, no, I'm suggesting it. :-)
11:16 masak it does sound like a terribly good idea, though.
11:16 jnthn To resolve the problem Ovid has brought up.
11:16 jnthn I'm not quite sure why, since it's going to torment an implementor to do it. ;-)
11:17 masak haha, masakism!
11:18 * jnthn should talk masak into doing it...he already went trawling through p6opaque.pmc yesterday anyway ;-)
11:18 masak I had t/spec/S32-trig/cotanh.t fail in the spectest harness, but it runs fine outside.
11:19 masak jnthn: I did no such thing! :)
11:19 masak I took a look and got out of there, quickly.
11:19 moritz_ masak: there are a few of these heisenbugs that appear in long-running tests
11:19 masak could be the Parrot choking on something.
11:19 moritz_ I had one in cosh.t or so
11:19 moritz_ jnthn: do you plan to fix the Unicode failure before the release?
11:20 jnthn moritz_: I kinda tried already...and failed. :-/
11:20 fridim_ joined #perl6
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11:20 jnthn Need to take another look.
11:21 masak as a dry-run release manager, I'm not too amused by heisenbugs. but they're slightly better than Big Fat Fails.
11:22 jnthn Do segvs come between or below those? :-|
11:23 moritz_ I think the heisenbugs are segvs
11:23 masak but they're not consistent.
11:24 colomon I could easily shorten the trig tests, or split them up into even more files.
11:24 colomon But that would be just hiding the bug.
11:25 moritz_ aye
11:31 * colomon went to try the obsolete mega-long trig test, but since he did git pull earlier, has to do a rebuild first.
11:34 jnthn ooh, pmichaud blogged too!
11:37 jnthn masak++ # nice post on one of the things you do best :-)
11:37 masak breaking stuff. :P
11:39 colomon moritz_, masak: you're having the issues on 32-bit linux?
11:39 masak no.
11:40 moritz_ colomon: no, I'm on 64bit
11:40 masak I'm not on Linux.
11:40 moritz_ he's on "Unix with a funny hat" (that's how a popular German blogger calls MacOS)
11:40 colomon okay, guess that presumption was way off...
11:40 masak a lickable hat.
11:41 moritz_ lickable?
11:41 kentnl_ joined #perl6
11:41 colomon just wondering about the possibility of running valgrind while running the test.
11:41 moritz_ well
11:41 jnthn BTW, I recommend pmichaud++'s post, if you want to know what the coming month of Rakudo dev will look like.
11:41 moritz_ valgrind is available on that platform
11:41 colomon I can test 64-bit linux and OS X here, no problem.
11:41 moritz_ but it's way slow
11:42 masak moritz_: when Mac OS X arrived, its transparent, shiny GUI controls were often described as 'lickable'.
11:42 colomon moritz_: yes, that's why I have an quad core with 8 gigs of ram that lives headless in the basement.
11:42 * masak reads pmichaud++'s post
11:42 colomon (that's my 64-bit linux platform.)
11:43 masak yay! planned and necessary mayhem! \o/
11:44 moritz_ colomon: does valgrind parallelize? if not the 4 cores won't help much
11:45 colomon moritz_: it helps in that it doesn't slow down the machine much, so I can still do $work on it.
11:45 jnthn Hmm. "big tasks" B and C in the roadmap can probably be called done in the next few days.
11:45 jnthn C I'd say already kinda is.
11:46 masak jnthn++
11:47 jnthn (Please don't rip out - would want to make sure pm agrees first.)
11:48 moritz_ heh, under valgrind rakudo still runs about 3 tests per second (of the trig tests)
11:49 jnthn We run more than 3 a second not under valgrind, surely?
11:49 moritz_ yes
11:50 moritz_ jnthn: I meant to imply that I'd expected even worse performance degrading
11:51 jnthn moritz_: oh, I found another way to parse it :-)
11:51 moritz_ yes, I noticed :-)
11:58 Woodi hey, where i can find perl6 web server ?
11:59 * Woodi mean webserver coded in perl6
12:00 dalek rakudo: 4e5877c | jonathan++ | src/pmc/perl6multisub.pmc:
12:00 dalek rakudo: Make trait dispatch that depends on a required named parameter a bit more efficient by allowing candidates that could never apply to fail much faster.
12:00 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4​e5877cf8a8b6dcbc14f8add094fda3c20457a15
12:00 masak Woodi: you mean like mberends++' HTTP::Daemon?
12:00 Woodi yes
12:01 masak Woodi: you can find it on github.
12:01 masak no, wait. on gitorious.
12:01 Woodi k, i will try to find
12:01 masak http://gitorious.org/http-daemon
12:02 masak also available through proto, with a sort of no-money-back guarantee. :)
12:02 masak in the ChangeLog, should one take down such things as the .push bug being fixed?
12:03 Woodi thank you masak++ :)
12:03 eiro hello world
12:03 masak eiro! \o/
12:03 eiro masak \o/
12:03 eiro what'sup ?
12:03 masak comment ça va?
12:03 takadonet morning all
12:04 masak takadonet! \o/
12:04 eiro masak, bien
12:04 eiro et toi ?
12:04 moritz_ masak: if you think it's worth mention, put it in
12:04 masak eiro: I'm fine. :) aussi bien.
12:04 eiro cool!
12:04 masak oaui.
12:04 masak er, ouai.
12:05 eiro masak: i wrote my iso2709 parser in perl5: it works fine. I try to convert it in a perl6 grammar
12:05 masak ECOLLOQUIALFRENCHFAIL
12:05 moritz_ oui?
12:05 masak moritz_: ouai:oui::yeah:yes, IIUC.
12:05 Woodi btw. on "p6 is users ready" subject: i found few realy scarry-users things...
12:05 eiro i have some pb but i guess i'm close to have a MARC::Record port of perl6 :)
12:06 masak Woodi: really? let's hear it.
12:06 eiro (working better than the perl5 one)
12:06 masak eiro: nice! looking forward to seeing it.
12:07 Woodi a) head -one STD.pm gives ALPHA; b) in Rakud roadmap in section "done" are realy strange things
12:07 eiro masak, if i can ask dump questions about perl6 grammars, it can be done quickly i hope
12:07 colomon moritz_: what are you valgrind testing?
12:07 masak eiro: you can ask any type of questions you like.
12:07 eiro masak, i'll be back tonight and will work on this: i'll ask then
12:07 moritz_ colomon: because you suggested it :-)
12:08 masak splendid.
12:08 Woodi c) somewhere i saw "frozen p6 syntax" document with list of 4 +- any(1,2,3) elems...
12:08 colomon moritz_: not why, what.  as in what test file?  No sense in duplicating effort.
12:08 moritz_ erm, sorry
12:08 moritz_ time valgrind ./perl6 t/spec/S32-trig/cosh.t
12:08 Woodi c) was realy depressing... it says that only when/case is working :)
12:09 masak Woodi: why is (a) scary? it's alpha.
12:09 masak Woodi: what do you mean by really strange things in (b)?
12:09 masak Woodi: (c) where? URL?
12:10 Woodi masak: but look on it as "not-waterfall" project realisation... it should be realy higger for iteration in spiral-type project
12:10 colomon moritz_: okay, I'll check masak's cotanh failure.  (and thanks for indirectly pointing out I could just run perl6 to run the test.)
12:10 masak Woodi: I'm not following you.
12:10 Woodi masak: cannot find it again... maybe pugs, maybe somewhere on the web...
12:11 * Woodi makes food for customers eq afk
12:12 masak Woodi: unfortunately, your three points boil down to 'some unspecified things are bad'... :/
12:12 * araujo wonders if Woodi is a cook
12:12 eiro first question anyway: http://pastebin.com/f2e2650f3
12:13 eiro i don't understand why showThem is called so many times
12:14 moritz_ rule TOP { ^^  <line>* $$ }
12:14 moritz_ should probably use ^ and $ instead
12:15 eiro moritz_, done! it works and i feel dump :)
12:15 moritz_ it seems to backtrack somehow, though I don't see why
12:15 eiro thanks
12:15 moritz_ eiro: no need to feel dumb, we all start with silly mistakes
12:16 moritz_ I started out with rather simplistic errors too
12:16 eiro you're right moritz_
12:17 masak given that you have to make errors, it's much better to do them in rough order of increasing complexity.
12:19 eiro masak, sure: that's why i don't write the iso2709 grammar for now: i want to do simple cases before
12:19 eiro this was lineByLine parser, next step is parsing a posixAccount database
12:19 eiro (as /etc/passwd)
12:20 masak nice.
12:20 moritz_ well, ISO2709 seems rather (mostly) fixed-width, I don't think a grammar is the best approach anyway
12:20 colomon pmichaud: looking at the roadmap, what's untrue about the current hyper/cross/reverse/other metaoperators?
12:20 moritz_ something more like unpack would be appropriate
12:21 eiro moritz_, that's right for the header
12:21 eiro not for the data
12:21 Woodi masak: about b)
12:22 Woodi masak: you wroted something in Rakudo, right ?
12:22 eiro the length of datafields are found while reading the record headers
12:23 masak Woodi: depends on what you mean by 'wroted'.
12:23 eiro s/wroted/written/ ?
12:23 Woodi masak: something that is coded in p6 and works somehow :)
12:23 masak I guess I qualify for that.
12:23 moritz_ masak wrote working code, yes :-)
12:23 masak it happens.
12:24 moritz_ occasionally, mostly by accident :-)
12:24 moritz_ s/accident/effort/
12:24 masak won't happen again. :P
12:24 Woodi masak: so you used if, for, {}, [], (), {} and other things like that
12:24 eiro :))
12:25 masak Woodi: in a pinch, yes.
12:25 Woodi masak: now look to Rakudo docs pls. all that things are not mention in "DONE" section of ROADMAP...
12:25 Woodi vi RAODMAP; ^G
12:25 jnthn Woodi: The ROADMAP was written in August 2009. The done list is things done since then.
12:26 jnthn Not all of the things done in Rakudo ever. :-)
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12:26 moritz_ Woodi: you want http://rakudo.org/status for that, not ROADMAP
12:26 Woodi what i mean: fresh user looking on docs will be do not know what construct can he/she use...
12:27 masak Woodi: what moritz_ said. you're likely looking for that status document.
12:27 Woodi moritz_: oo, that much better
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12:27 moritz_ Woodi: but you're right, that's a problem in general
12:27 moritz_ Woodi: we're working on a book that explains those Perl 6 features that rakudo implements
12:27 masak maybe the ROADMAP should refer to that status page.
12:28 moritz_ masak: feel free to add a link
12:28 moritz_ Woodi: that way people can just learn from the book, and what they learn works
12:28 Woodi not so big now... just: cat "Current status available at http://* " >> ROADMAP
12:28 moritz_ I'd rather put it at the start
12:29 masak I'd rather not duplicate information.
12:29 masak oh, you meant a link. I see.
12:30 Woodi moritz_: but it is rakudo... same about mildew too...
12:30 Woodi and other implementations.
12:35 Woodi and about not-waterfall perl6 development. now we know its not cascading. so what it looks like ? just 2 sentences of official description is needed... spiral methodology (plan, coding, testing, review) or agile-like or refactoring like, or chaotic like :)
12:36 NorwayGeek joined #perl6
12:36 colomon What's that about array and hash interpolation in strings?  I was under the impression that wasn't supposed to work in Perl 6.  Is it really just a NYI in Rakudo?
12:36 * Woodi is NOT a troll (hi thinks) :)
12:38 * colomon notes that the spectest graph as not caught up with this week's changes yet...
12:38 colomon moritz_: ZOMG that's a lot of errors in valgrind...
12:38 takadonet colomon: you just want to see that huge spike
12:39 colomon takadonet: guilty as charged. :)
12:39 takadonet colomon: me too :)
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12:47 colomon moritz_: a lot of errors that look like yyparse / yylex must not be properly ported to a 64-bit platform...
12:49 PerlJam colomon: TO.pm == ThousandOaks.pm
12:50 colomon PerlJam: ah, and you're naming the release after them, yes?
12:50 PerlJam yes
12:50 moritz_ colomon: http://moritz.faui2k3.org/​files/cosh.t.valgrind.log is "my" valgrind log - no signs of yyparse/yylex here
12:50 PerlJam colomon: arrays and hashes interpolate, but you need the brackets to do so
12:51 moritz_ PerlJam: btw that release announcement was just a first shot, and it probably needs more additions and refinements
12:51 colomon PerlJam: The status file indicates brackets are a workaround.
12:51 moritz_ they are a workaround, but valid Perl 6 :-)
12:51 PerlJam colomon: no,  "blah blah {@array} blah" is a work-around,  "blah blah @array[] blah" is not
12:51 colomon Common things that do not work in Rakudo: "interpolations of arrays, hashes, and method calls in strings RT #62198 (Note that the { ... } form is a usable workaround)"
12:52 colomon PerlJam: oh.
12:52 moritz_ things with % and @ sigil only interpolate when they end in a postcircumfix
12:53 moritz_ "@a.elems" does not, "@a.elems()" does
12:53 PerlJam colomon: you should also be able to do   "List of stuff: @array.uniq.sort()"
12:53 moritz_ colomon: can you put your valgrind log up somewhere, and link in in #parrot?
12:53 colomon moritz_: one sec
12:53 * PerlJam is off to help "teach" a GIS class, bbl
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12:57 colomon moritz_: where is #parrot?
12:57 moritz_ colomon: on irc.perl.org
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13:03 masak I haven't seen any pmichaud spectest graph data update in quite a while.
13:04 moritz_ 2009-10-13 was the latest
13:05 masak I skipped that part of my dry run where I had to say how many tests we pass, and how many more since last month.
13:05 masak but PerlJam will have to know tomorrow.
13:06 masak I have a feeling it's yet another impressive increase this month. :)
13:10 dalek rakudo: 4c248e5 | masak++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
13:10 dalek rakudo: [docs/release_guide.pod] s/-/_/ in file name
13:10 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4​c248e5cc8a69eeee1f5d24b08a73584e099d2d4
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13:17 colomon masak: I don't have firm numbers, but I'm guessing about 6000 more passing tests, at least 80% coming out of the yellow region there.
13:18 * moritz_ runs tools/test_summary.pl
13:18 masak whoa!
13:18 masak that graph is... no longer self-similar. :>
13:18 colomon er?
13:19 moritz_ self-similar = fractal
13:20 colomon was the graph ever fractal?
13:20 masak there's a large discontinuity in it now.
13:20 moritz_ colomon: not really
13:20 moritz_ erm
13:20 moritz_ not at all :-)
13:21 masak colomon: it always looked about the same as time went by.
13:21 colomon you mean the early october jump, or was there another one this week?
13:21 masak it had no distinguishing features apart from the upwards trend.
13:21 masak I mean the early October jump.
13:21 masak the one that can be seen on http://rakudo.org/status
13:21 moritz_ there was a smaller jump in April too
13:22 colomon oh, sure, early October was my fault.
13:22 masak colomon++ # nice fault
13:22 colomon though I suppose you can blame moritz_ for aiding and abetting me with the Complex bits of it.
13:22 moritz_ the on in April was pmichaud++ and his regex "fault"s :-)
13:23 colomon I would think there will be a similar jump this week mostly attributable to jnthn++
13:25 colomon I added a lot of skipped tests too in the early October thing, and thanks to jnthn's merge, I was able to unskip all of them this week.
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13:40 masak add t/spec/S12-introspection/methods.t to the list of heisenbuggish test files.
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13:46 moritz_ shows no anomalies in valgrind
13:47 masak strange.
13:47 masak it died after 31 tests in the harness here.
13:53 masak ladies and gentlefolks! it is with great pride I present to you the dry-run release of Rakudo Europa: the Perl 6 implementation for carbon-based as well as non-carbon-based life-forms! http://github.com/masak/rakudo/downloads
13:54 masak release announcement here: http://github.com/masak/rakudo/r​aw/master/docs/announce/2009-10
13:54 moritz_ masak++
14:00 lumi joined #perl6
14:01 masak (oops, s/Parrot 1\.6\.0/Parrot 1.8.0/)
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14:13 colomon I thought we weren't supposed to make contact with Europa.pm until next year?  ;)
14:15 masak colomon: we'll keep it under wraps till then. :)
14:16 colomon BTW, latest parrot is 1.7.0
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14:17 PerlJam colomon: he's doing *his* release which will be 1.8.0
14:17 colomon ah, I see!  That explains a lot.
14:17 colomon practicing very early...
14:17 PerlJam colomon: better than that last minute :)
14:18 colomon Of course, then he needs to change October 2009 to November 2009, too....  :)
14:25 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
14:26 moritz_ o morning
14:26 pugs_svn r28871 | kyle++ | [t/spec] test based on spec r28870
14:26 KyleHa masak: Could I impose upon you to look at that to see if it conforms to your expectations?
14:26 masak KyleHa: sure. I'll look.
14:28 pmichaud 12:20 <colomon> pmichaud: looking at the roadmap, what's untrue about the current hyper/cross/reverse/other metaoperators?
14:28 pmichaud currently we cheat quite a lot to get those
14:28 pmichaud in particular, they aren't parsed correctly according to STD.pm -- we parse them all as normal infixes or prefixes, not via the various meta rules.
14:29 masak KyleHa: that arg ( 'bughunt', 3 ) in the 'is' call args list looks wrong to me. won't it flatten?
14:29 masak KyleHa: otherwise, fine.
14:30 moritz_ in particular we don't support arbitrary depth of meta nesting, I think
14:30 KyleHa masak: Thank you.
14:30 moritz_ rakudo: 1 >>+=<< 3
14:30 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near ">>+=<< 3"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
14:30 KyleHa masak: The test passes, so I don't think anything is being flattened.
14:30 moritz_ std: 1 >>+=<< 3
14:30 p6eval std 28870: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 106m␤»
14:32 * moritz_ thinks the test is fine
14:32 KyleHa If I deliberately b0rk the test, it reports that argument as being of the form ["bughunt", 3]
14:33 dalek book: abc7de1 | masak++ | src/multi-dispatch.pod:
14:33 dalek book: [MMD] s:g:ii/stone/rock/
14:33 dalek book: Also tried to prefer the ordering 'rock, paper, scissors' as this is
14:33 dalek book: familiar to people.
14:33 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/ab​c7de1cb4f73a7508d35d35732eada197c532cc
14:33 dalek book: e5d44d9 | masak++ | src/multi-dispatch.pod:
14:33 dalek book: [MMD] replaced the classes by an enum decl
14:33 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/e5​d44d94105ddca8247856592735ecb8b6ab04eb
14:33 colomon pmichaud: Ah, so that's what's going on with generating all the hyper / meta versions of the operators.
14:37 colomon pmichaud: I was wondering if there was some way I could help debug them, but it sounds like that's probably best left until after you get nqp-rx merged in?
14:38 pmichaud probably worth waiting, yes.  I'm also wondering to what extent we can/should generate the meta operators lazily, instead of initially as we do now
14:39 moritz_ btw nqp-rx isn't going to get "merged in" as a replacement for NQP or PGE
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14:39 moritz_ but rather stay separately
14:39 pmichaud I took it as "rebase rakudo to use nqp-rx"
14:39 moritz_ yes, me too, but I just wanted to clarify
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14:43 colomon pmichaud: and indeed that was what I was trying to say.  danke.
14:44 masak pmichaud: where would such meta-op laziness trade off performance?
14:44 pmichaud startup time
14:44 pmichaud also memory
14:45 pmichaud ...do we really want to create subroutines for every possible combination of metaops?  ;-)
14:45 masak no idea.
14:46 moritz_ there are infinitely many
14:47 masak moritz_: are there? I thought they were more of a hierarchy.
14:47 pmichaud I think it's large but finite
14:48 moritz_ can't you cross an arbitrary number of times?
14:48 masak my limited knowledge of STD.pm indicates that there's a finite number of them.
14:48 moritz_ and then reduce
14:48 masak std: 1 X+ 1
14:48 p6eval std 28870: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 104m␤»
14:48 masak std: 1 XX+ 1
14:48 p6eval std 28870: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 104m␤»
14:49 masak std: 1 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX+ 1
14:49 p6eval std 28870: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 105m␤»
14:49 masak std: 1 [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX+] 1
14:49 p6eval std 28870: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 105m␤»
14:49 masak seems you can.
14:49 masak I'm surprised that that last one survived.
14:50 pmichaud well, for Rakudo Star we have "true hyper/meta operators" as "nice to have", so those might not be forthcoming anytime soon (meaning we may still keep a cheating approach for a while)
14:50 masak isn't [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX+] a listop?
14:51 pmichaud I would think so, yes.
14:51 pmichaud std: 1 [+] 1
14:51 masak and don't listops behave a bit like prefix ops?
14:51 p6eval std 28871: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
14:51 pmichaud yes, they do.
14:51 masak so isn't STD.pm a bit too permissive there?
14:51 pmichaud looks like it to me
14:51 masak TimToady: ^
14:51 pmichaud but STD.pm is often a bit permissive
14:52 masak but this is up there with 'two terms in a row'.
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14:52 pmichaud agreed
14:52 masak because, um, that's essentially what it is.
14:52 diakopter pmurias: o|
14:52 pmichaud let's see how it's parsing
14:53 pmichaud (btw, I'm updating the rakudo spectest graphs in background, should have results in a couple of hours)
14:53 masak pmichaud++
14:53 pmurias diakopter: o| is?
14:53 * pmichaud does svn up, rebuilds STD.pm
14:54 pmurias diakopter: hi
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14:57 moritz_ total",     32588,    84,   485,  2140, 35297,     0
14:58 moritz_ that's the result of my tests_summary run
14:58 pmichaud my box needs to catch up on eight days of stuff :)
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15:03 pmichaud oh, "bracketed infix"
15:03 pmichaud | :dba('bracketed infix') '[' ~ ']' <infixish(1)> { $<O> = $<infixish><O>; $<sym> = $<infixish><sym>; }
15:03 masak huh.
15:04 masak so something like 1 [+] 1,1,1 would be 4?
15:04 moritz_ I don't think a bracketed infix is an infix
15:04 moritz_ std: 1 [+] 1
15:04 p6eval std 28871: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 104m␤»
15:04 moritz_ oh.
15:04 pmichaud S03:  Any ordinary infix operator may be enclosed in square brackets
15:05 pmichaud with the same meaning.  You may therefore use square brackets
15:05 pmichaud ...
15:05 moritz_ 'oh' again
15:05 moritz_ so it can be either an infix or a listop, depending on whether an op or a term is expected
15:05 pmichaud correct.
15:05 moritz_ wicked.
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15:06 diakopter std: 1 [[+]] 1
15:06 p6eval std 28871: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 104m␤»
15:13 jnthn std: my $foo; $foo[[.]]bar
15:13 p6eval std 28871: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Obsolete use of . to concatenate strings; in Perl 6 please use ~ instead at /tmp/A6yskiQVfj line 1:␤------> [32mmy $foo; $foo[[.][33m⏏[31m]bar[0m␤FAILED 00:01 109m␤»
15:13 jnthn :-)
15:15 diakopter std: my $foo; $foo[[~]]bar
15:15 p6eval std 28871: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/E6VG17RcUp line 1:␤------> [32mmy $foo; $foo[[~]][33m⏏[31mbar[0m␤    expecting any of:␤  POST␤   bracketed infix␤    infix stopper␤    postfix␤        postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤       standard stopper␤
15:15 p6eval ..statement modifier loop␤    terminator␤     …
15:15 diakopter std: my $foo; $foo[[[]]]bar
15:15 p6eval std 28871: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/P3N9itXjis line 1:␤------> [32mmy $foo; $foo[[[]]][33m⏏[31mbar[0m␤    expecting any of:␤ POST␤   bracketed infix␤    infix stopper␤    postfix␤        postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤       standard stopper␤
15:15 p6eval ..statement modifier loop␤    terminator␤…
15:15 diakopter std: my $foo; $foo[[]]bar
15:15 p6eval std 28871: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/UyubxGPCBe line 1:␤------> [32mmy $foo; $foo[[]][33m⏏[31mbar[0m␤    expecting any of:␤   POST␤   bracketed infix␤    infix stopper␤    postfix␤        postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤       standard stopper␤
15:15 p6eval ..statement modifier loop␤    terminator␤     w…
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16:01 colomon pmichaud: It seems to me laziness in meta-operator generating is the only sane approach.   Unless many of them could just be executed on the fly using some meta function, which is kind of how I thought it was already done...
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16:17 masak is it true? is Perl 5 on a monthly schedule nowadays?
16:22 KyleHa masak: That appears to be true.  This is the second release of a Perl 5.11, one month after the first.
16:22 masak that is extremely good news, by me.
16:23 KyleHa I think so too.
16:24 pmurias joined #perl6
16:26 takadonet Seems like the perl 5 community really want to start making progress again
16:26 takadonet and i'm glad :)
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16:29 * KyleHa has a hard time making progress, preferring instead to order progress for delivery.
16:30 masak :)
16:31 masak make: *** No rule to make target `progress'.  Stop.
16:31 KyleHa make: *** No rule to make target `practice'.  Stop.
16:32 masak make: *** No rule to make target `whoopie'.  Stop.
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16:37 KyleHa Lexicality or lexicalness?
16:38 masak it might depend. are you referring to the phenomenon or the property? :)
16:38 KyleHa I think I'll just avoid such silly words.
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16:42 Tene I prefer lexi-cool.
16:42 PerlPilot Is feather dead?
16:44 dukeleto feather is down for me
16:49 diakopter yeah looks like the feather irssi folks timed out 25 min ago
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17:06 KyleHa (git-svn)++  # keep working when feather is down
17:06 perlpilot git++ you mean; screw that svn business  :)
17:07 moritz_ #perl6book meeting in 54min
17:10 * colomon is slightly depressed to need to write a Perl 5 program for $work.
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17:30 colomon Oh noes!  My script is too slow even in Perl 5!  Gack....
17:30 TimToady hi guys, you're on screen at NetLogic
17:30 lumi joined #perl6
17:31 masak hi, screen at NetLogic! \o/
17:32 stephenlb :D
17:32 * moritz_ is at home, not on screen ;-)
17:32 nbrown joined #perl6
17:33 masak ah, the splintered identity of the modern life!
17:42 * KyleHa welcomes our new NetLogic overlookers.
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18:02 masak #perl6book meeting time!
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18:14 colomon pmichaud: just remembered my other question, about overloading cmp....
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18:23 colomon rakudo: say 0.5 cmp 1;
18:23 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«-1␤»
18:23 colomon rakudo: say (1/2) cmp 1;
18:23 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Multiple Dispatch: No suitable candidate found for 'cmp', with signature 'PP->I'␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
18:24 KyleHa rakudo: say (sub{} ~~ Callable && !(sub{} !~~ Callable));
18:24 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«0␤»
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18:25 dalek nqp-rx: 6cd6c1a | pmichaud++ | src/HLL/Grammar.pm:
18:25 dalek nqp-rx: Add default <ws> rule.
18:25 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/6​cd6c1a91e580061bb17144c053c18608b10f8b3
18:25 dalek nqp-rx: 9924922 | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
18:25 dalek nqp-rx: Reorganize code a bit, initial term:sym<identifier> (subcall) implementation.
18:25 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/9​924922cb48e6df21b3599b28d3f1464e41d2e6f
18:25 dalek nqp-rx: b079e0d | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
18:25 dalek nqp-rx: Add basic statements and terminators.
18:25 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/b​079e0d96e967a79f06530b04095132207e07dcf
18:25 dalek nqp-rx: a4bfb16 | pmichaud++ | build/Makefile.in:
18:25 dalek nqp-rx: Refactor Makefile in preparation for nqp tests.
18:25 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/a​4bfb160e69670c8c6d98dd3d8bccb6fd9bb4fa4
18:25 dalek nqp-rx: 4ed10a8 | pmichaud++ |  (5 files):
18:25 dalek nqp-rx: Add goal-matching syntax to P6Regex.
18:25 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/4​ed10a8f06bf270a677f95557cfec7db195531c3
18:29 pugs_svn r28872 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Test for RT #69919
18:29 pugs_svn r28873 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Tests for RT #69915
18:29 pugs_svn r28874 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Tests for RT #69869
18:29 pugs_svn r28875 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Tests for RT #69762
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18:43 dalek book: 026f34f | masak++ |  (2 files):
18:43 dalek book: [bin/book-to-latex] script to generate a .tex file
18:43 dalek book: This works for me to generate a PDF file:
18:43 dalek book: $ perl bin/book-to-latex > book.tex
18:43 dalek book: $ pdflatex book.tex
18:43 dalek book: Now, could someone who knows how please make a Makefile
18:44 dalek book: that does the above?
18:44 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/02​6f34f5d40c94bd37c91faebc7d4fa2b784dab4
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18:55 moritz_ does anybody know where p6eval comes from?
18:55 moritz_ I am confused.
18:56 moritz_ it seems to live on neither of the usual hosts
18:57 KyleHa It says it comes from 209.9.237.232.
18:58 moritz_ the usual hosts are: timtowtdi.org, 80.237.201.115
18:59 moritz_ or diakopter++'s server, wait, that's where it's from
18:59 KyleHa That IP appears to be allocated to a company in Sterling, VA.
18:59 moritz_ why can't I find the process then?
18:59 * moritz_ too dumb
18:59 moritz_ I have been looking for half an hour on the wrong host
18:59 KyleHa Try 'netstat -p' (as root) and look for connections to freenode.
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19:24 japhb pmichaud, jnthn: I've got a patch to add mkdir() to Rakudo's src/builtins/io.pir ... how would you like it?
19:24 moritz_ japhb: rakudobug@perl.org (so it goes into RT)
19:24 japhb moritz_, thank you, will do
19:25 japhb moritz_, as attachment, or inline?
19:25 moritz_ japhb: attachement
19:26 moritz_ (at least that's what I prefer)
19:28 japhb incoming
19:29 * jnthn ducks
19:30 jnthn yaz op!
19:32 dalek book: f027e5e | moritz++ | src/ (5 files):
19:32 dalek book: PseudoPod starts at =head0, so decrease the heading level by one everywhere
19:32 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/f0​27e5ed2fd667a7b9ca200ceda4bb1abaf003a4
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19:38 pugs_svn r28876 | moritz++ | [t/spec] test the now non-special delegation to hash and array attributes
19:42 dalek rakudo: 0117dd3 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
19:42 dalek rakudo: spectest-progress.csv update: 452 files, 27582 (72.3% of 38174) pass, 265 fail
19:42 dalek rakudo: Failure summary:
19:42 dalek rakudo: S02-builtin_data_types/capture.rakudo 16 - unflattened captures can be passed to subs
19:42 dalek rakudo: S02-lexical-conventions/unicode.rakudo aborted 5 test(s)
19:42 dalek rakudo: S03-junctions/autothreading.rakudo aborted 78 test(s)
19:42 dalek rakudo: S06-multi/proto.rakudo passed 2 unplanned test(s)
19:42 dalek rakudo: S06-signature/defaults.t aborted 2 test(s)
19:42 dalek rakudo: S06-signature/optional.rakudo aborted 3 test(s)
19:42 dalek rakudo: S10-packages/basic.rakudo aborted 41 test(s)
19:42 dalek rakudo: S12-attributes/delegation.rakudo aborted 16 test(s)
19:42 dalek rakudo: S12-attributes/instance.rakudo aborted 88 test(s)
19:42 dalek rakudo: S12-methods/parallel-dispatch.t aborted 21 test(s)
19:42 dalek rakudo: integration/man-or-boy.t aborted 10 test(s)
19:42 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0​117dd331b0e744ecc584fa44d0592928588aa04
19:42 moritz_ pmichaud: that's quite a few failures which I don't see here
19:43 moritz_ pmichaud: have you tried a git clean -xdf and regeneration
19:43 moritz_ ?
19:52 jnthn That looks odd, yeah.
19:52 jnthn I've not seen anyone else turn in a failure report like that.
19:52 jnthn autothreading.rakudo we know to fail on 64-bit, but the rest, no.
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19:53 pugs_svn r28877 | moritz++ | [t/spec] typos
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19:59 pmichaud I've not tried that -- didn't know it was needed.
20:00 pmichaud I can re-run from a fresh git checkout.
20:00 moritz_ git-clean -xdf is enough
20:00 pmichaud what does that do, exactly?
20:01 moritz_ removes all files under version control, even those that are ignored
20:01 TimToady I may be late for phone call
20:01 moritz_ so don't do that if you have patches lying around ;-)
20:01 pmichaud ....removes all files *not* under version control
20:01 moritz_ erm, yes, sorry
20:01 * moritz_ shouldn't type today
20:01 pmichaud ...as it just deleted all of my files I had lying around.
20:02 moritz_ oh, I'm so sorry
20:02 pmichaud np, I don't think I had anything too important
20:02 pmichaud it listed all of the files it deleted, and I think I'm safe.
20:02 moritz_ anyway, it's not something that should happen
20:02 pmichaud I'll start from a fresh checkout.
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20:07 jaffa8 hi
20:09 jaffa8 Do you remember me?
20:09 * moritz_ does
20:10 jaffa8 I told you I made perl 5 to perl 6 regular expression converter
20:10 jaffa8 the google does not show it.
20:10 jaffa8 so much time has been passed...and it does not appear in google
20:10 moritz_ does it have links from somewhere else?
20:10 jaffa8 yes
20:11 jaffa8 it is not like a dangling pointer
20:12 moritz_ does it contain a good title? text that's visible without javascript? allowed by robots.txt
20:12 nwc10 joined #perl6
20:12 jaffa8 there is not much text without javascript
20:12 nwc10 TimToady: how late might late be? :-)
20:13 TimToady don't know how long this meeting will run
20:13 TimToady are you guys done already? :)
20:13 nwc10 no, just started. With Allison.
20:13 TimToady I think we're wrapping up now
20:13 nwc10 chromatic is running it
20:13 fax joined #perl6
20:13 japhb In the proto projects.list, what is epoxy-resin?  There does not seem to be a project of that name on github ....
20:14 nwc10 rah! I don't have to take the minutes.
20:16 lumi joined #perl6
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20:19 dalek book: cac7c9f | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/multi-dispatch.pod:
20:19 dalek book: Add missing t to arbitrary.  Rewrite first sentence of paragraph to flow more naturally (IMO).
20:19 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/ca​c7c9fee974660f310fbc3b81716561f0c49eac
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20:48 colomon rakudo: my Int $a; say $a.WHAT
20:48 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
20:55 dalek book: 437783b | moritz++ | src/multi-dispatch.pod:
20:55 dalek book: [MMD] further clarifications requested by colomon++
20:55 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/43​7783b74b89bed8afe4142f690c400289253859
20:57 Confield left #perl6
20:58 moritz_ vmbrasseur: welcome ;-)
20:59 vmbrasseur moritz_: Thanks!  I've been lurking for a while, where "lurking" == "forgetting I had IRC open".  :-)
20:59 phenny vmbrasseur: 15 Oct 07:18Z <moritz_> tell vmbrasseur re contribution info, you might be interested in <http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=771635> and <http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=780001>. Also feel free to ask on #perl6 if you need a pugs commit bit to change perl6.org
20:59 cotto_work joined #perl6
21:00 moritz_ wow, that's an old message ;-)
21:01 vmbrasseur Dang, yeah it is.
21:02 vmbrasseur phenny a bot?
21:02 moritz_ yes
21:02 moritz_ we have quite a few of those here ;-)
21:03 vmbrasseur Looks like 8 of 'em, unless my listing is wrong (possible/likely).
21:04 moritz_ plus a few passive ones
21:04 moritz_ for example is a pure logging bot
21:05 vmbrasseur I'd imagine the logs around here get pretty considerable at times.  How're they stored?  DB or otherwise?
21:06 moritz_ DB
21:06 moritz_ 2M rows so far
21:07 vmbrasseur Oh, that's not so bad then.
21:07 moritz_ which also includes #parrot and a few other channels
21:07 jnthn 2M? Sheesh, we natter a lot. :-)
21:08 Tene BAR BAR BAR BAR BAR
21:08 moritz_ well, audreyt used to chat a lot ;-)
21:09 moritz_ and I imported old logs starting from 2005
21:10 vmbrasseur I'm surprised there's ONLY 2M lines if it goes back from 2005.
21:11 moritz_ rakudo: say 2e6 / (4 * 365)
21:11 p6eval rakudo 073d5e: OUTPUT«1369.86301369863␤»
21:11 moritz_ still more than 1k lines per day ;-)
21:13 vmbrasseur Judging from my scrollback for the past few days most of those are you and jnthn.  ;-)
21:13 moritz_ only if you discount the bots ;-)
21:14 moritz_ actually the largest single contributor is joins/leaves
21:14 moritz_ which make up about 0.4M lines
21:15 vmbrasseur Oh, good point.  I hadn't considered that those get logged as well.
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21:32 dalek rakudo: c4e6d0f | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | src/builtins/io.pir:
21:32 dalek rakudo: Implement mkdir
21:32 dalek rakudo: Signed-Off-By: Moritz Lenz <moritz@faui2k3.org>
21:32 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c​4e6d0fa19bec03b7417b5ba743aefb18e6fcdad
21:33 jnthn japhb++
21:34 japhb :-)
21:34 japhb Thanks, moritz_
21:34 jnthn (in the setting with inline PIR may have been nice too, but it's still nice to have :-))
21:34 japhb jnthn, ah, sorry, just grepped for chdir and put it in the same place in the same style.
21:34 jnthn japhb: It's fine, no need to apologize. You just added a feature. :-)
21:35 jnthn We're still very much in the process of moving things into the setting.
21:37 jaffa8 has rakudo been optimised yet?
21:37 moritz_ a wee bit
21:37 pmichaud No.
21:37 pmichaud Not really.
21:37 pmichaud i.e., it's still slow.  :)
21:37 jaffa8 50 lines /s
21:37 jaffa8 ?
21:38 jaffa8 ok
21:39 jaffa8 DO you know what is the cofee mug incident?
21:39 moritz_ poor mug ;-)
21:41 japhb s/mug/mugs
21:41 moritz_ I wasn't there, just read about it :)
21:42 jaffa8 WHat did you read?
21:42 vmbrasseur News to me.  What's the coffee mugs incident? (link?)
21:43 jaffa8 see part about Topaz
21:43 jaffa8 http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl​6/index.cgi?perl_6_implementations
21:43 jnthn pmichaud: My fingers are crossed for parsing speed improvements too. :-)
21:43 moritz_ http://books.google.com/books?id=NYgzEwH5tsQC&amp​;pg=PA2&amp;lpg=PA2&amp;dq=perl+6+mug&amp;source=​bl&amp;ots=cjzLr0WYxP&amp;sig=8H_OBVFBD5v4BD82Z-1​KFGTz7Qs&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=aYDfSvzXIZKknQPrwpzaBw&​amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;res​num=9&amp;ved=0CCUQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&amp;q=perl 6 mug&f=false
21:43 jnthn pmichaud: The nqp part of nqp-rx looks to be coming on well. :-)
21:44 tak11 joined #perl6
21:44 japhb vmbrasseur, jaffa8: http://www.spidereyeballs.com/o​s5/set1/small_os5_r06_9705.html
21:45 pmichaud jnthn: it all seems to be coming along well.  :)  But I'm stuck on a parsing issue at the moment, which means I'm adding some debugging/tracing tools to the regex engine.
21:46 jnthn I guess those will be good ot have in the long run. :-)
21:46 vmbrasseur japhb: Thanks for the link.
21:46 moritz_ pmichaud: add goal matching to get better error messages ;-)
21:46 pmichaud I already added goal matching :)
21:46 moritz_ I've blogged again: http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/​perl-6-ticket-life-cycle.writeback
21:47 jaffa8 Jon Orwant, the actor?
21:47 jaffa8 Who is Jon Orwant?
21:48 jnthn "(Typically that's masak)" :-D
21:49 japhb jaffa8, google 'perl Jon Orwant'
21:52 jaffa8 ok
21:52 jaffa8 bye
21:54 lumi joined #perl6
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22:37 dalek nqp-rx: 31f8ae7 | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
22:37 dalek nqp-rx: Add some (non-working) block rules to NQP.
22:37 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/3​1f8ae7a10bfb9395b5696ce31afc2f2b0638bf8
22:37 dalek nqp-rx: 9104507 | pmichaud++ | src/ (4 files):
22:37 dalek nqp-rx: Add some primitive regex debugging capabilities.
22:37 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/9​10450780de5f163335033d85d87844c863233bf
22:37 dalek nqp-rx: 9681684 | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
22:37 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Add statement_control:sym<if> .
22:37 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/9​6816849acd94dfcf95f8b5547d2736273b33a69
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23:24 * jnthn -> sleep
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