Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-10-23

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:08 ruz joined #perl6
00:09 ruz hi, I was playing with p6 recently and realized that an infix operator can not return a list
00:11 ruz is it a bug or spec?
00:12 ruz p6eval: sub infix:<T> ($a, $b) { return $a, $b; }; my @r = (1 T 2);
00:13 ruz rakudo: sub infix:<T> ($a, $b) { return $a, $b; }; my @r = (1 T 2);
00:13 p6eval rakudo 281e3b: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed (2) - at most 1 param expected␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
00:14 kent\n joined #perl6
00:15 ruz mildew: sub infix:<T> ($a, $b) { return $a, $b; }; my @r = (1 T 2);
00:15 p6eval mildew: OUTPUT«Could not find variable &infix:T in the lexical scope.␤»
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00:28 KyleHa joined #perl6
00:29 KyleHa rakudo: sub infix:<T>($a, $b) { return ($a, $b) }; my @r = (1 T 2); @r.perl.say;
00:29 p6eval rakudo 281e3b: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤»
00:34 ruz rakudo: sub infix:<T> ($a, $b) { return ($a, $b); }; my $r = (1 T 2); $r.perl.say
00:34 p6eval rakudo 281e3b: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤»
00:35 ruz this is what worry me
00:35 ruz rakudo: sub infix:<T> ($a, $b) { return ($a, $b); }; my $r = 1 T 2; $r.perl.say
00:35 p6eval rakudo 281e3b: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤»
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00:41 tak11 joined #perl6
00:42 ruz probably I just miss something
00:42 ruz rakudo: sub foo {return 1,2}; my @r = foo; @r.perl.say
00:42 p6eval rakudo 281e3b: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed (2) - at most 1 param expected␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
00:44 [particle] rakudo: sub foo {return 1,2}; my @r = foo(); @r.perl.say
00:44 p6eval rakudo 281e3b: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed (2) - at most 1 param expected␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
00:44 [particle] rakudo: sub foo {return 1,2}; my @r = foo(); @r.say
00:44 p6eval rakudo 281e3b: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed (2) - at most 1 param expected␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
00:45 [particle] rakudo: sub foo {return 1, 2}; my @r; @r = foo(); say @r.perl
00:45 p6eval rakudo 281e3b: OUTPUT«too many arguments passed (2) - at most 1 param expected␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
00:45 [particle] feh.
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01:26 vallor rakudo: sub foo {return (1, 2)}; my @r; @r = foo(); say @r;
01:26 p6eval rakudo 281e3b: OUTPUT«12␤»
01:27 vallor rakudo: sub foo {(1, 2)}; my @r; @r = foo(); say "@r";
01:27 p6eval rakudo 281e3b: OUTPUT«@r␤»
01:28 vallor rakudo: sub foo {(1, 2)}; my @r; @r = foo(); say @r;
01:28 p6eval rakudo 281e3b: OUTPUT«12␤»
01:28 vallor rakudo: sub foo {(1, 2)}; my @r; @r = foo(); say join('HAMSANDWICH',@r);
01:28 p6eval rakudo 281e3b: OUTPUT«1HAMSANDWICH2␤»
01:29 vallor [particle]: It might be working
01:29 stephenlb joined #perl6
01:29 vallor [particle]: the "one argument" gripe might be referring to return() ?
01:39 TimToady rakudo's return doesn't really know about Captures and Parcels yet, so can only really return a scalar
01:49 frew joined #perl6
01:51 dalek nqp-rx: f8fb418 | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
01:51 dalek nqp-rx: Handle immediate blocks (in 'if' statements, at least).
01:51 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/f​8fb418149ef0b1ca133f62d32224762cc82ab8a
01:51 dalek nqp-rx: 16b3e50 | pmichaud++ | src/ (3 files):
01:51 dalek nqp-rx: Fix error in protoregex token string test.
01:51 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/1​6b3e500c81c36f0b3c61e6a165876b6789dcbb3
01:51 dalek nqp-rx: a3d0b4e | pmichaud++ |  (4 files):
01:51 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Recognize statement end after close curly brace.  Add "make nqp-test" target, and first set of tests.
01:52 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/a​3d0b4e817492e94c127708312368403d21e2009
01:52 dalek nqp-rx: b870296 | pmichaud++ | t/nqp/02-if-else.t:
01:52 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]: Add (passing) if-elsif-else tests.
01:52 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/b​870296bcf76dc53d00434ab6e670224226da04c
01:52 dalek nqp-rx: 182e820 | pmichaud++ | t/nqp/0 (2 files):
01:52 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]: Somehow missed adding these tests in earlier commits.
01:52 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/1​82e820765d09297345ddfc7a41a64cdd883989c
01:57 dalek nqp-rx: 4174ed2 | pmichaud++ |  (3 files):
01:57 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Add 'unless' statement.
01:57 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/4​174ed291a9f7a8bddaf6d548c0efe5741cdd65b
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02:57 pugs_svn r28887 | kyle++ | [t/spec] briefer test
02:57 pugs_svn r28888 | kyle++ | [t/spec] decimal without "e" is Rat per Spec r28881
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03:02 KyleHa rakudo:  class A { method uhn() { say "alive"; return self; }}; {"foo" => &A::uhn}.<foo>(A.new)
03:02 p6eval rakudo 281e3b: TIMED_OUT
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03:36 pugs_svn r28889 | kyle++ | [t/spec/integration] Test for RT #69610
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03:43 dalek rakudo: 49e62fa | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | t/spectest.data:
03:43 dalek rakudo: [spectest.data] Add integration/return-from-method-in-hash.t (RT 69610)
03:43 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4​9e62fa9af5143edd784122d81e17f83b9853b01
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04:30 mberends japhb: ping
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: 6ebc781 | pmichaud++ | t/nqp/0 (4 files):
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]: More test fixes, add 04-comments.t .
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/6​ebc781bc22d8845fde288142e4d76144a4389a2
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: c48a575 | pmichaud++ | t/nqp/0 (10 files):
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: Rename test files to avoid 00-* test (and since we won't use 05-pod.t
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: as-is anyway).
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/c​48a575f5ed3f5585304c3f9c97bdfbb172b553d
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: c5c2958 | pmichaud++ | t/nqp/06-args-pos.t:
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: Add 06-args-pos.t test.
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/c​5c2958381547966737c6a08cc273cbb91009ee3
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: 6be2c89 | pmichaud++ |  (4 files):
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]: Add prefix:<!> and prefix:<?>.  Add 'plan' and 'ok' builtins.
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/6​be2c8907bfd54c190aab87a12b9b9074fae2ce0
04:51 dalek nqp-rx: 86ff73b | pmichaud++ |  (2 files):
04:51 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Make immediate blocks work in statementlists.  Add 08-blocks.t.
04:51 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/8​6ff73bf54ff407460a8ba0a9cae8ab2ae55247d
04:51 mberends the pmbot never sleeps :)
05:14 dalek nqp-rx: d6f5066 | pmichaud++ | src/PAST/Regex.pir:
05:14 dalek nqp-rx: Zero-width anchors allow prefix tokens.
05:14 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/d​6f5066a951709e26d9141056e7680e80e3e97eb
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05:37 dalek book: c6e366b | duff++ | authors.pod:
05:37 dalek book: Minor reformatting, fill out my info
05:37 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/c6​e366b0256419b64fc4fd78bcc9afd1fe05d5bd
05:37 dalek book: c40a907 | duff++ | src/preface.pod:
05:37 dalek book: Add an introductory paragraph and information on Perl 6 resources
05:37 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/c4​0a9071291ccbb53600c508c37ac8672fc26942
05:37 dalek book: 38bc43c | duff++ | src/multi-dispatch.pod:
05:37 dalek book: minor edits
05:37 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/38​bc43c46c2cdae39b93fb0410eb7d26bf144698
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06:12 japhb mberends, pong ... but I'm going to have to head to bed pretty soon.
06:12 japhb I'll try you again tomorrow ...
06:13 mberends ok, it's clear the proto installed-modules branch needs to be completed
06:13 mberends I'll do  some work on that today :)
06:13 japhb mberends, excellent!
06:14 japhb More brains to eat in the morning, then.  :-)
06:14 mberends heh
06:14 mberends have a good rest
06:14 japhb OK, off to drown my flu in a bottle of Nyquil
06:14 japhb thx
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06:29 dalek nqp-rx: fbaf420 | pmichaud++ | src/ (4 files):
06:29 dalek nqp-rx: Add special handling of <sym>.
06:29 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/f​baf420d94b8ad4a2a68075bbd02a8540f7dacf8
06:29 dalek nqp-rx: a02da52 | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/Grammar.pm:
06:29 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Switch grammar to use <sym> subrule.
06:29 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/a​02da5221f6dc4af5c044d74d98cbfa99684439a
06:29 dalek nqp-rx: 5ad06df | pmichaud++ | src/ (3 files):
06:29 dalek nqp-rx: [p6regex]:  Switch to use <sym> subrule in protoregexes.
06:29 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/5​ad06dfbbd4b7ac50ca55ee8f13e58f0c8d8fff2
06:33 MasterShake perl6: say "Hello, World!"
06:34 p6eval rakudo 49e62f: OUTPUT«Hello, World!␤»
06:34 p6eval ..elf 28889, pugs: TIMED_OUT
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06:47 moritz_ good morning
06:48 mberends good morning moritz_
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08:02 eiro coucou, les guerriers du perroquet
08:08 moritz_ guten Morgen wehrte Kamelschmetterlinge :-)
08:12 namenlos joined #perl6
08:13 Su-Shee moritz_: *rotfl* :)
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08:51 mberends en vir suid-afrika: goeie m�re kameelskoenlappers :-)
08:53 moritz_ koenlapper = butterfly?
08:53 Su-Shee mberends: I'm totally for a "rakudo kameelskoenlappers" release :)
08:53 moritz_ Su-Shee: just starte a kameelskoenlappers perl mongers group :-)
08:53 moritz_ contribute a bit to rakudo
08:53 mberends yes, skoenlapper. no idea why, it's not dutch
08:53 moritz_ there you go :-)
08:54 Su-Shee moritz_: this is such a cool word.. :)
08:55 mberends always loved afrikaans for its evocative and gritty phrases
08:55 mberends zebra -> kameelperd
08:55 moritz_ lol
08:56 moritz_ (German "Pferd" is horse)
08:57 mberends chameleon -> verkleurmannetjie
09:00 barney joined #perl6
09:00 Su-Shee mberends: verkleuren is "disguise/masquerade"?
09:01 Su-Shee looks like verkleiden.
09:01 dalek book: c686798 | moritz++ | src/multi-dispatch.pod:
09:01 dalek book: [MMD] two small nits in PerlJam++'s excellent edits
09:01 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/c6​86798e40246079a9c6fe8f68f04f19625abad0
09:01 dalek book: 9a23084 | moritz++ | docs/announce/2009-10.html:
09:01 dalek book: [docs] HTML version of release announce
09:01 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/9a​2308463b5d04b6f887a27d14cbdea39c51f877
09:02 moritz_ Su-Shee: or "verklaeren"
09:09 namenlos moritz_: not "verkleiden"?
09:10 moritz_ namenlos: Su-Shee already suggested that
09:10 namenlos fingers faster than the brain - sorry for the noise
09:10 moritz_ :-)
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09:21 masak joined #perl6
09:21 masak ahojte, alle loyte.
09:21 mathw We have LTA behaviour with Configure.pl --gen-parrot when svn isn't installed
09:21 mathw It notices, but then tries to carry on anyway
09:23 dalek nqp-rx: 7fa2ece | masak++ | src/cheats/hll-grammar.pir:
09:23 dalek nqp-rx: Fixed typo in documentation.
09:23 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/7​fa2ece7c85190b3d23dfc818ddd36c3aaa54c59
09:24 moritz_ mathw: aye, errors from build/gen_parrot.pl don't propagate to Configure.pl
09:24 moritz_ mathw: feel free to patch that, or to submit a bug report
09:25 mathw I'll think about a patch
09:25 masak heh, I discovered the same things as vallor did with --target=pir yesterday. was about to report it today. :)
09:25 mathw It's something that's actually within my capabilities
09:25 mathw woot
09:25 masak vallor: you know that precompiling to PIR still works, don't you?
09:25 masak i.e. creating the PIR file, and then including it with 'use MyModule'
09:30 masak Skoenlapper :) http://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skoenlapper
09:30 mberends ahoj masak, im hackin ur proto :)
09:30 masak mberends++
09:30 mberends Su-Shee: verkleur = to change colour
09:31 masak mberends: I presume from the backlog that you read yesterday's discussion with __ash__.
09:31 mberends masak: correct, and japhb++ is also hoping the branch will land soon
09:32 masak mberends: any way I can help?
09:32 mberends thanks, let me look for a few minutes
09:32 masak absolutely.
09:38 mberends I'm thinking of merging a soon as possible, even though there is more TODO, as long as the main functionality works. It looks like "uninstall" is part done and "update" not yet started. The rest can be done post-merge.
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09:44 masak even 'uninstall' is not overly critical, in my opinion. 'update' is, though.
09:45 mberends yep. can 'update' be implemented as 'uninstall' + 'install' ?
09:46 mberends the problems are: dependecies block a full uninstall, but the update may need to remove some files and add others
09:47 mberends it may work if there is a variant of uninstall that turns a blind eye to dependencies
09:51 masak haven't had my coffee yet today; need to re-read that.
09:52 mberends it seems todo #13 already knew what I was musing about ;-)
09:53 masak it seems todo #13 knows what it's talking about, too.
09:53 mberends none of that has been written, I've just done some renaming to free up the name 'update'
09:53 masak could you give me a quick run-down of the current subcommands?
09:54 mberends ok
09:55 mberends Installer.pm:16 is the list. fetch downloads into cache, refresh re-downloads into cache, clean removes from cache
09:57 mberends test dwym, install copies "intelligently" to .perl6/lib/, uninstall "intelligently" erases from .perl6/lib/
09:59 mberends showdeps lists dependencies for just one project, showstate is for debugging and lists what's in cache and installed
10:00 masak sounds good.
10:00 mberends masak: so 'uninstall' and 'update' are top of the pile, and should be done pre-merge. Do you feel like tackling any part of that?
10:01 masak I can have a look at 'uninstall'.
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10:02 mberends ok, just writing a commit message...
10:03 jnthn o/
10:03 mberends \o jnthn
10:04 * jnthn gave one of his talks
10:04 jnthn one more later today
10:04 pmurias joined #perl6
10:04 jnthn Went sort of OK-ish...I think. :-/
10:04 masak jnthn: oh hai. make sure to upload them soon, so that the rest of us can enjoy them, too. Ö=
10:04 masak :)
10:05 jnthn :-)
10:05 mberends urk, git push says ! [rejected] even though git pull was up to date. grrr
10:06 jnthn tssk
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10:14 masak I'm not 100% sure I'll have the presence of mind to contribute sensibly to proto today.
10:15 masak I was going to take some polishing swipes at the book before its first release,
10:15 masak and I'm sort of half-preparing for going to Stockholm for a disputation dinner tonight.
10:16 mberends ok, and I see on github.com that the push *did* arrive :-) puzzled <frown/>
10:17 rfordinal joined #perl6
10:17 jnthn disputation dinner = dinner where you dispute stuff?
10:18 masak jnthn: I was waiting for someone to ask that. :)
10:18 jnthn "That's my beer." "It's NOT your beer."
10:18 masak jnthn: yes, it's a bit like Monty Python.
10:19 jnthn .oO( wonder if anyone attends dressed up as a cross-dressing lumberjack )
10:19 jnthn (monty python)++
10:20 masak maybe I'm using a false friend in Swedish. is sv:disputation the same as en:'doctoral defense'?
10:20 masak if so, what do you call the adjoining dinner?
10:28 jnthn Ah, OK, gotcha.
10:28 jnthn Hmm, where I was, there wasn't an adjoining dinner.
10:29 jnthn We tend to call it a thesis defence where I was at, and the only other nickname I knew for it was "viva", but I'm not sure where that came from.
10:29 jnthn otoh, I went to a strange uni. ;-)
10:29 pmurias in
10:34 bpetering masak: i'm <-> this close to being "done", and able to work on porting P5 Text::CSV's tests over. I've already done several.
10:35 masak bpetering: very nice. yesterday I felt the need for a Writer again. looking forward to picking up negotiations with you.
10:36 masak I feel our collaboration so far has been very fruitful.
10:36 bpetering masak: I'm hoping to get a few of the dot-tees knocked off tonight.
10:36 bpetering masak: I built the "one to throw away", hopefully yours + tests will be "what ppl want"
10:36 masak nod.
10:37 bpetering Oh, and <obligatorynetmemegreeting> everyone
10:38 bpetering masak: I do too :)
10:39 bpetering What are we negotiating?
10:39 dalek book: 4e17690 | masak++ | docs/announce/2009-10 (2 files):
10:39 dalek book: [docs/announce] slight polish on announcement
10:39 dalek book: - changed some infinitives to participles
10:39 dalek book: - changed description of masak from 'first user' to 'frenetic'
10:39 dalek book: - 'chromatic' with a small 'C' -- trumps beginning of sentence by me
10:40 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/4e​17690b87dd97894026825cabc0abbb62eba331
10:45 dalek book: 2ad2120 | masak++ | README:
10:45 dalek book: [README] minor grammar and link fixes
10:45 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/2a​d2120ce6cf2d7ff0c483dc0d06bd24d6f34f0f
10:45 dalek book: 41cd141 | masak++ | Makefile:
10:45 dalek book: [Makefile] removed incendiary comment
10:45 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/41​cd141f23b21498a06bc4999b90f5d95e6fd47f
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10:57 bpetering masak: in any case, enjoy the dinner :)
10:58 masak bpetering: thank you. :) I'm sure I will, it's an old friend who's done his defence.
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11:08 dalek book: 86b2f11 | masak++ | Makefile:
11:08 dalek book: [Makefile] parameterized inkscape executable
11:08 dalek book: Mac users might have to hand-edit the Makefile to make Inkscape work
11:08 dalek book: correctly -- I did. I guess a Configure.pl step could be made to
11:09 dalek book: probe the system automatically, but the current setup works for now.
11:09 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/86​b2f11ec3ad363c44bf3a1c51d308c1494e1128
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11:48 bpetering masak: (sounds like you're busy but... where you said 'false friend' above i'm thinking 'false cognate' - is that the same thing?)
11:51 moritz_ masak, mberends: for the installed-modules branch it would be convient to have a "wipeout" or "purge" command that just uninstalls all modules
11:51 moritz_ ie rm -rf ~/.lib/perl6/*, and reset projects.state
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12:06 moritz_ rakudo: my %h = a => 3, b => [4, 5]; %h.push: a=> 7, b => 8; say %h.perl
12:07 p6eval rakudo 49e62f: TIMED_OUT
12:09 moritz_ anyway
12:11 takadonet morning all
12:12 dalek book: 4dfe6b7 | masak++ | src/preface.pod:
12:12 dalek book: [preface] added explanation about TODOs
12:12 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/4d​fe6b79227baf074fb0ae2c1ee95d8f2626bd16
12:12 dalek book: 33e9b83 | masak++ | src/preface.pod:
12:12 dalek book: [preface] de-capitalized parts of headings
12:12 dalek book: More consistent now.
12:12 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/33​e9b83e54069673e40f27c2350b57c6ec2228b1
12:12 masak bpetering: aye, I'm afraid 'false friend' might also be a false cognate. how meta... :/
12:13 * moritz_ also learned "false friend" in school
12:13 mj41 joined #perl6
12:16 bpetering masak: :)
12:17 * bpetering guesses it's a European thing.
12:26 Bzek joined #perl6
12:29 mberends moritz_++: a proto 'wipeout' command is a good idea, will add one :)
12:35 bpetering mberends++, masak++ # proto
12:36 bpetering moritz++ # proto
12:36 * moritz_ did nearly nothing for proto
12:36 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
12:37 bpetering (severe VBscript brain damage. Feeling slightly retarded.)
12:37 bpetering moritz++ anyway, you're working on nearly everything else :)
12:40 masak TimToady: this article, while a bit on the theoretical side, I found very approachable. it, and the paper it refers to, might give further ideas about parallelizing operations on lists: http://www.iis.sinica.edu.tw/~scm/2009/det​ermining-list-steepness-in-a-homomorphism/
12:40 bpetering and half-an-hour late: morning takadonet :)
12:40 masak morning takadonet!
12:40 takadonet bpetering: thanks
12:40 takadonet morning masak
12:48 colomon joined #perl6
12:49 colomon hai all!  i iz at StackOverflow DevDays in Toronto!
12:49 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
12:50 masak colomon: woot!
12:50 masak colomon: may you make many people's stacks flow over with Perl 6 awesomeness. :)
12:51 colomon :)
12:51 colomon I still wish I'd been organized enough to get a nice Rakudo t-shirt to wear today.
12:58 moritz_ given the amount of advertisment that stackoverflow.com had on its pages, one can assume that their monetary stack also overflows :-)
13:01 masak I imagine they're doing pretty well, yes.
13:02 masak they're also selling the software underlying StackOverflow, StackExchange. http://stackexchange.com/
13:03 NorwayGeek joined #perl6
13:04 masak gotta go now. have a pleasant weekend, everyone!
13:04 moritz_ I prefer the perlmonks philosophy of encouraging discussion (rather than discourage them, as SO does)
13:04 moritz_ masak: good weekend to you too
13:04 bpetering enjoy the dinner, masak :)
13:04 moritz_ (and have the appropriate amount of fun)
13:04 masak I will. :)
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13:32 dalek book: d9314dd | duff++ | docs/announce/2009-10 (2 files):
13:32 dalek book: Minor grammatical nit
13:32 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/d9​314dd6bfa7177964f48a78d48b1e0004bf204d
13:37 KyleHa joined #perl6
13:42 frew joined #perl6
13:45 KyleHa Is there something wrong with Parrot svn, or is it just me?
13:46 ruoso joined #perl6
13:47 PerlJam wrong how?
13:48 KyleHa Trying to checkout a Parrot revision stalls.
13:48 * PerlJam tries
13:50 PerlJam svn: OPTIONS of 'https://svn.parrot.org/parrot/trunk': could not connect to server (https://svn.parrot.org)
13:50 PerlJam :-(
13:50 KyleHa Ok, it's not just me.  Thanks!
13:53 moritz_ http://rakudo.org/node/58 # book announcement
13:53 moritz_ http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/w​e-write-a-perl-6-book-for-you.html # same post
13:54 dalek book: a2ebb2a | moritz++ | docs/announce/2009-10 (2 files):
13:54 dalek book: [docs] download location in release announcement
13:54 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/a2​ebb2a6e93eb659f86b490aa7f05d8c52045030
13:56 KyleHa Howdy Moritz!  I took an unusual turn in the test I wrote last night, putting it in spec/integration.  I wondered if you had some other suggestion.
13:58 moritz_ KyleHa: t/spec/S12-methods/$somewhere maybe?
13:58 namenlos joined #perl6
13:58 moritz_ this test basically invokes a method with subroutine syntax
13:58 moritz_ I'm still not quite sure if that's fine, in general
13:58 KyleHa According to the ticket, the hash lookup is part of the problem.
13:59 moritz_ did you try it without the hash lookup?
13:59 ejs joined #perl6
14:00 moritz_ if it's a hash problem, it could go into S02 or S32 somewhere
14:00 KyleHa It actually passes now.
14:00 moritz_ it does?
14:00 moritz_ wow
14:00 KyleHa But no, I only confirmed that it failed as originally described in the version that was fingered.
14:01 moritz_ either S12 or S02 would be fine by me
14:01 moritz_ assembling too many files in integration/ makes me feel uneasy, though
14:01 KyleHa OK.  It seems today that $work will be full of emergencies, so it might take me a while to fix that.
14:01 moritz_ no hurry.
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14:05 KyleHa Woohoo!  Parrot svn is back!
14:06 athaba joined #perl6
14:06 KyleHa Sometimes I wish for a t/spec/rt.t into which I can dump any RT ticket.  Deciding where to put the test in the suite can take longer than writing the test.
14:07 moritz_ I know
14:07 KyleHa Maybe I just need more practice.
14:07 moritz_ but "this was once a rakudobug" is not a useful means to categorize spectests, which after all should be implementation independent
14:08 bpetering KyleHa: i'm planning to start contributing to the test suite more... kinda like the sound of that :)
14:08 moritz_ maybe we can find a compromise
14:08 moritz_ we have such a file, and declare that tests should be migrated out of there
14:09 moritz_ and I can go through it twice a week, and comment which files would be appropriate
14:09 moritz_ that way you don't have the initial hassle to decide, and can learn a bit what others think about it
14:10 KyleHa That sounds pretty good.  Then I can move them around in another pass later.
14:10 moritz_ there's one problem though
14:10 KyleHa It doesn't have to be just "this was once a rakudobug".  It could be any implementation's bugs.  8-)
14:11 moritz_ we send the mail to RT informing about the bug
14:11 moritz_ and then later on it's moved to a different location
14:11 KyleHa Oh yeah.  That smells bad.
14:11 payload joined #perl6
14:11 moritz_ so either we send a second mail (which would bloat RT), or we lose the information (not good either)
14:12 KyleHa That could be worked around, but it'd be clumsy.
14:13 KyleHa workaround: (1) don't mention the RT ticket in the initial commit, (2) have separate commits for 'delete' and 'add', and mention the RT ticket in the latter.
14:13 moritz_ I personally don't find it too hard to find a somewhat to find a good location
14:13 moritz_ subroutine call? S06. Objects? S12. Roles? S14
14:14 KyleHa OK, then I probably just need more practice.
14:14 moritz_ control structures? S04
14:14 moritz_ regexes? S05
14:14 moritz_ basic data types, syntax? S02
14:14 moritz_ operators? S03
14:14 moritz_ often there's also more than one valid location
14:14 moritz_ then just pick what feels better, there's no scientific evaluation :-)
14:16 moritz_ and in my online hours I'm also glad to answer questions
14:16 moritz_ about test locations
14:16 KyleHa I appreciate that.
14:17 moritz_ (oh, and I found ack -g useful. It's about a 'constant B'? ack -g constant -> spec/S04-declarations/constant.t
14:17 moritz_ )
14:17 KyleHa I still use grep.
14:17 moritz_ then find | grep constant
14:17 KyleHa For extra power, I pipe to Perl.
14:18 moritz_ (ack -g searches in file names, not in the files itself)
14:18 KyleHa grep -r ^ t | perl -ne 'print if /blah/'
14:18 KyleHa Yes, "find | grep" to find files.
14:20 KyleHa The perl6book project seems pretty ambitious.
14:20 PerlJam KyleHa: how so?
14:20 KyleHa I just think writing books is hard.
14:20 moritz_ it is :)
14:21 PerlJam If you think it, then it will be so.
14:21 KyleHa It's a lot of prose to keep coherent.
14:21 moritz_ but with great collaborateurs it's also fun
14:22 KyleHa I think it's a great idea, especially what with Rakudo Star.
14:25 moritz_ thanks
14:25 moritz_ funny thing is
14:25 moritz_ chromatic and allison thought about contacting masak and me about writing a Perl 6 book
14:25 moritz_ bot somehow that idea got stalled
14:26 moritz_ because too many other things happened, or something
14:26 moritz_ and then we came up with that idea independently
14:27 Su-Shee isn't also someone writing with a grant a wikibook about perl 6 and randall schwartz is working on leanring perl 6 and...
14:28 elmex joined #perl6
14:28 moritz_ Su-Shee: I know of no grant
14:28 moritz_ Su-Shee: and the "learning perl 6" is pretty much dormant since 2007 or so
14:30 colomon joined #perl6
14:30 Su-Shee moritz_: yeah, I checked a few days ago or so.
14:31 colomon so, I'm sitting here watching an ASP.NET MVC presentation, and translating bits of code to Perl 6 in my head.
14:31 moritz_ :-)
14:31 KyleHa A book seems like it would go well on a wiki more so than git.  Was wiki considered and rejected?
14:32 colomon Is there a Perl 6 idiom for getting a scalar from a list presumed to have one value?
14:32 moritz_ colomon: $list[0]
14:33 colomon moritz_: ooo, with // to provide a default if the list is empty?
14:33 moritz_ KyleHa: I prefer git for several reasons, among them that I'm not forced to work in a browser, and that offline hacking is much easier with git
14:33 moritz_ colomon: sure
14:33 colomon (// does still exist, right?  I've never actually used it...)
14:33 KyleHa (offline hacking)++
14:33 moritz_ KyleHa: and I do a lot of writing on the train, without wifi
14:34 KyleHa Makes sense.
14:34 moritz_ also most wikis are very slow or bad in showing diffs, and don't encourage proper commit messages
14:34 moritz_ (oh, and there aren't many POD or LaTeX based wikis, and learning yet another format doesn't appeal to me)
14:35 moritz_ these are mostly also the reasons why perl6.org is not a wiki
14:35 KyleHa OK, I take it back.  Wiki would not have been a good choice.
14:35 moritz_ :-)
14:36 moritz_ however it would be nice to have HTML versions of the pages though
14:36 moritz_ hopefully somebody implements that, so that I don't ahve to do it :-)
14:36 KyleHa That reminds me.
14:36 colomon http://enc.com.au/docs/latexhtml.html
14:37 moritz_ well, there's also a Pod::PseudoPod::HTML on CPAN
14:37 colomon ah, that's probably better.
14:37 moritz_ which we could use - somebody just has to do it :-)
14:37 KyleHa Once in a while I actually try to put smartlinks into the tests like I ought to.  How do those get migrated to the syn pages?  Is it periodic regeneration, or what?  When can I look to see if my link worked?
14:38 moritz_ it's a cron job (runs hourly, iirc)
14:38 KyleHa Cool, thanks.
14:38 moritz_ and you can use util/smartlinks.pl --check $filenames
14:38 moritz_ from the pugs repo
14:39 KyleHa Neat-o.
14:40 KyleHa First file I checked has errors.  Maybe there's some low hanging fruit there for some future contributor.
14:41 * jnthn just gave his other talk
14:41 jnthn Including a partial LolSql to Sql convertor. ;-)
14:41 moritz_ :-)
14:44 jnthn "an increase of 17,085 passing tests" :-D # release win!
14:44 KyleHa We don't mention how many of those weren't present in the suite before.  8-)
14:45 moritz_ release announcements aren't the place for gory details
14:45 mathw jnthn: I was thinking of writing one of those, but I haven't had tuits yet
14:46 moritz_ jnthn: did you upload the slides already?
14:46 * KyleHa is bisecting the junctions/autothreading regression.
14:47 KyleHa I just think 'git bisect' is so awesome.
14:47 mathw I've never used it, but everyone's always very enthusiastic about it
14:48 jnthn KyleHa: We already know when it regressed.
14:48 jnthn KyleHa: When resig2 merged.
14:48 jnthn moritz_: Not yet - also, I only hacked up the translator today, so it didn't make it onto the slides. ;-)
14:48 KyleHa jnthn: Yes, but we could probably narrow it down more than that...into the commits that were part of resig2.
14:49 jnthn KyleHa: I know that too. :-)
14:49 jnthn KyleHa: Thing is, it was failing differently before that.
14:49 jnthn Thanks for looking at it, but it's actually not useful to know. The code that segfaults actually has to be deleted and re-written in order to build on pcc_reapply.
14:49 nihiliad joined #perl6
14:50 KyleHa Oh, OK.
14:50 KyleHa I'll let the CPU cool off, then.  8-)
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16:36 PerlJam re learning perl 6, has anyone asked merlyn or bdf about it lately?
16:39 [particle] msg anyone have you askend merlyn or brian_d_foy about learning perl 6 lately?
16:39 [particle] ;)
16:40 astrojp joined #perl6
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16:49 dalek book: ac44502 | pmichaud++ | src/ (2 files):
16:49 dalek book: Fix a couple of noticed typos.
16:49 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/ac​44502beb1a9f2ad8ed958d764cf57cf9240f0f
16:49 dalek book: fa8e079 | pmichaud++ | src/grammars.pod:
16:49 dalek book: Another typo.
16:49 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/fa​8e079f199acad43680ff84afb8cef83ee3a722
16:50 Su-Shee_ joined #perl6
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17:05 zamolxes ok, so I twittered about the last rakudo release, and got a question 'why is rakudo better than activestate or strawberry or ..? oh it runs on parrot, what is that?' is there a quick link I can give that could answer 'what is perl6? what is parrot? why is perl6 not perl5? why is perl6 cool?' something a good programmer in $other_language could skim in 10 seconds and understand
17:06 KyleHa http://perl6.org/  is sort of central.
17:10 KyleHa Here's the most recent release announcement:  http://rakudo.org/node/57
17:10 Su-Shee zamolxes: this is helpfull I think: http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/inde​x.cgi?the_long_perl_6_super_feature_list
17:14 colomon joined #perl6
17:15 colomon rakudo: my $a= "hello"; say $a.substr(2,1);
17:15 p6eval rakudo 49e62f: OUTPUT«l␤»
17:16 colomon ack, that's what I get for doing this in low-light conditions.  In my terminal's font I thought that was a 1.
17:16 colomon rakudo: my $a = "hello"; $a.substr(2,1) = "g"; say $a;
17:16 p6eval rakudo 49e62f: OUTPUT«hello␤»
17:17 colomon rakudo: my $a = "hello"; substr($a, 2, 1) = "g"; say $a;
17:17 p6eval rakudo 49e62f: OUTPUT«hello␤»
17:17 colomon NYI?
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17:29 zamolxes thank you
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17:49 colomon rakudo: <a b c d e f>.map(-> $a, $b { $a ~ $b if $b; }).perl.say;
17:49 p6eval rakudo 49e62f: OUTPUT«["ab", "cd", "ef"]␤»
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18:07 colomon rakudo: Set(<a b c d e f g>).perl.say
18:07 p6eval rakudo 49e62f: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub Set␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
18:07 colomon rakudo: Set.new(<a b c d e f g>).perl.say
18:07 p6eval rakudo 49e62f: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub Set␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
18:08 PerlJam ENOSET
18:08 PerlJam :)
18:08 colomon Yes, that's going to make a challenge to use in this code.  :)
18:09 colomon rakudo: any(<a b c d e f g>).perl.say
18:09 p6eval rakudo 49e62f: OUTPUT«any("a", "b", "c", "d", "e", "f", "g")␤»
18:09 colomon rakudo: any(<a a b c d d e f>).perl.say;
18:09 p6eval rakudo 49e62f: OUTPUT«any("a", "b", "c", "d", "e", "f")␤»
18:10 TimToady but that's not a set--it's a set of sets
18:10 colomon eh?
18:11 TimToady it matches a, ab, bc, feedface, etc
18:11 colomon ooooo.
18:11 TimToady a real set has one() semantics
18:11 colomon okay, that's not gonna work either.  :)
18:12 colomon rakudo: one(<a a b c d d e f>).perl.say;
18:12 p6eval rakudo 49e62f: OUTPUT«one("a", "a", "b", "c", "d", "d", "e", "f")␤»
18:12 colomon right, back to the good old hash for now
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18:59 PerlJam merlyn says that perl 6 llama is on hold until perl6 gets more usable.  I wonder if Rakudo* counts
19:07 zloyrusskiy joined #perl6
19:09 pmichaud I think it counts, but I think the llama is on a different time scale
19:09 pmichaud and has a somewhat different focus
19:09 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
19:13 [particle] she's on llama time.
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19:23 TSa HaloO
19:24 sjohnson Q:  is there a perl6 cpan repository yet?  if so, is it the regular CPAN site, with Perl6:: prefixes?
19:30 NorwayGeek joined #perl6
19:32 obra__ sjohnson: Perl6:: is modules in perl 5 meant to emulate perl6 behaviour
19:32 obra__ there is ongoing work on getting perl6 code onto the CPAN. and six different efforts to reinvent CPAN for perl 6 ;)
19:34 Schwern joined #perl6
19:36 sjohnson thanks obra__
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20:07 zamolxes KyleHa: hope this is ok :) http://twitter.com/bogdanlucaciu/status/5105572551
20:08 KyleHa Looks good to me, zamolxes, thanks!
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20:48 moritz_ is <.before $thing> and <?before $thing> the same?
20:48 moritz_ in a regex, that is
20:50 quietfanatic joined #perl6
20:59 sjohnson are the <> significant?
21:00 sjohnson either case they are not
21:00 moritz_ what's the difference?
21:00 moritz_ and yes, the <> are necessary
21:02 sjohnson the <? will accept whether or not the < is present
21:02 moritz_ I'm talking about Perl 6 regexes
21:02 sjohnson and the .b will only allow a character of anytime after the < and before the b
21:02 sjohnson ... oh
21:02 moritz_ this is #perl6, after all ;-)
21:02 sjohnson i didn't know they are differnent :[
21:02 NorwayGeek joined #perl6
21:02 moritz_ very much though.
21:02 moritz_ s/though/so/
21:02 Exodist joined #perl6
21:03 sjohnson sowwie
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21:18 dalek book: 810f25c | moritz++ | src/regexes.pod:
21:18 dalek book: [RX] substitutions, lookahead
21:18 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/81​0f25c25fc0e3278aa7a06d56fa0031af075f16
21:19 pmichaud because before is a zero-width match, <?before ...> and <.before ...>  end up being equivalent.
21:19 hercynium joined #perl6
21:19 pmichaud However, I would recommend the <?before ...> form to make it clearer that it's a zero-width match.
21:19 pmichaud <?before ...>  also gives a hint to the regex engine that no backtracking into the regex is needed.
21:19 jferrero joined #perl6
21:20 pmichaud (in general,   <.foo>  might backtrack into 'foo', while <?foo> doesn't need to do so.)
21:20 moritz_ ok, thanks for the explanation
21:21 moritz_ I'll probably change it in the book tomorrow
21:21 moritz_ is <?before <.subrule>> the same as <?subrule>?
21:25 * moritz_ -> bed (but will backlog)
21:25 frew__ joined #perl6
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21:35 pmichaud moritz_: yes, I tend to think of <?before <subrule>> as being better specified as <?subrule>
21:43 pugs_svn r28890 | kyle++ | [t/spec] move my misplaced test
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21:46 dalek rakudo: 501b4fb | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | t/spectest.data:
21:46 dalek rakudo: [spectest.data] moved my misplaced test
21:46 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5​01b4fb08ece44433e2bbedba0ef13e3e523f883
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23:23 PerlJam rakudo: my $str = "o";  say "foo" ~~ /$str/ ?? "yes" !! "no";
23:23 p6eval rakudo 49e62f: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_string()␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 295)␤»
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