Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-11-05

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 payload joined #perl6
00:06 Juerd Wolfman2000: Er, everyone can read ~juerd/apache - I don't see what the problem is.
00:07 Juerd Wolfman2000: And don't worry about those sudo reports. It's a standard feature and I usually don't read them anyway.
00:09 mubot joined #perl6
00:10 carlin mubot: unlink moritz_
00:10 mubot Sorry, I don't understand that command
00:10 carlin Oh yes you do
00:12 jnthn .oO( pantomime bot )
00:12 mubot joined #perl6
00:12 carlin mubot: unlink moritz_
00:12 mubot moritz_ is no longer an alias of moritz
00:13 jnthn \o/
00:13 carlin mubot: karma moritz_
00:13 mubot moritz_ has a karma of 5
00:13 carlin mubot: karma moritz
00:13 mubot moritz has a karma of 2
00:13 carlin mubot: link moritz moritz_
00:13 mubot moritz is an alias of moritz_ and can not be set as a master nick
00:14 Lorn joined #perl6
00:14 carlin What a mess
00:15 carlin mubot: unlink moritz
00:15 mubot moritz is no longer an alias of moritz_
00:15 carlin mubot: karma moritz
00:15 mubot moritz has a karma of 2
00:15 carlin mubot: karma moritz_
00:15 mubot moritz_ has a karma of 5
00:15 carlin mubot: link moritz moritz_
00:15 mubot moritz_ is now an alias for moritz (moritz will gain any karma given to moritz_)
00:15 carlin mubot: karma moritz_
00:15 mubot moritz has a karma of 7
00:15 carlin That's better
00:17 diakopter mubot: link moritz moritz_++
00:17 mubot moritz_++ is now an alias for moritz (moritz will gain any karma given to moritz_++)
00:17 diakopter karma moritz
00:17 diakopter mubot: karma moritz
00:17 mubot moritz has a karma of 7
00:17 diakopter moritz++
00:17 diakopter mubot: karma moritz
00:17 mubot moritz has a karma of 8
00:18 gfx joined #perl6
00:18 diakopter moritz++++
00:18 diakopter mubot: karma moritz
00:18 mubot moritz has a karma of 9
00:18 jnthn mubot: karma jnthn
00:18 mubot jnthn has a karma of 1
00:18 diakopter heh
00:18 jnthn aww
00:18 diakopter jnthn+=532642
00:18 jnthn :D
00:18 jnthn mubot: karma jnthn
00:18 mubot jnthn has a karma of 1
00:18 jnthn mubot: karma jnthn++
00:18 mubot jnthn++ is of an unknown quantity
00:18 jnthn aww
00:18 diakopter mubot: karma jnthn
00:18 mubot jnthn has a karma of 1
00:19 jnthn Yeah
00:19 jnthn Was a nice try though :-)
00:19 diakopter ++jnthn
00:19 diakopter mubot: karma jnthn
00:19 mubot jnthn has a karma of 2
00:19 diakopter ooo
00:19 jnthn oh! prefix karma!
00:19 diakopter that's what she said!
00:19 diakopter I mean..
00:19 jnthn lol
00:20 carlin (Jonathan Worthington)++
00:20 carlin mubot: karma Jonathan Worthington
00:20 mubot Jonathan Worthington has a karma of 1
00:20 diakopter mubot: karma (jnthn)
00:20 mubot (jnthn) is of an unknown quantity
00:20 diakopter (jnthn)++
00:20 diakopter mubot: karma jnthn
00:20 mubot jnthn has a karma of 3
00:20 jnthn ((jnthn))++
00:20 diakopter ((jnthn))++
00:20 diakopter hey
00:21 diakopter mubot: karma jnthn
00:21 jnthn mubot: karma (jnthn)
00:21 mubot jnthn has a karma of 3
00:21 mubot (jnthn) is of an unknown quantity
00:21 diakopter (jnthn))++
00:21 diakopter mubot: karma jnthn
00:21 jnthn irregular language fail :-)
00:21 mubot jnthn has a karma of 3
00:21 diakopter ((jnthn)++
00:21 diakopter mubot: karma jnthn
00:21 mubot jnthn has a karma of 4
00:21 diakopter ((jnthn)++)
00:21 diakopter mubot: karma jnthn
00:21 mubot jnthn has a karma of 5
00:22 diakopter jnthn+++
00:22 diakopter mubot: karma jnthn
00:22 mubot jnthn has a karma of 6
00:22 diakopter heh
00:22 * jnthn is glad to be the test case
00:22 diakopter /topic Bring Your Own Bot.  Free input parser fuzzing.
00:23 carlin jnthn: Do you want me to test purge now?
00:23 carlin ;-)
00:23 jnthn carlin: Yes, but it's somebody else's turn now.
00:23 carlin mubot: karma C
00:23 jnthn I shouldn't be getting this much attention.
00:23 mubot C has a karma of 2
00:23 carlin mubot: purge C
00:23 mubot C's karma has been reset
00:23 carlin mubot: karma C
00:23 mubot C is of an unknown quantity
00:23 jnthn C--
00:24 carlin I need to change the 0 karma error
00:24 carlin mubot: karma C
00:24 mubot C has a karma of -1
00:24 diakopter ()--
00:24 diakopter mubot: karma ()
00:24 mubot () is of an unknown quantity
00:24 jnthn mubot: karma
00:24 mubot has a karma of -1
00:24 jnthn lol
00:24 diakopter mubot: karma ( )
00:24 mubot ( ) is of an unknown quantity
00:24 diakopter mubot: karma ' '
00:24 mubot ' ' is of an unknown quantity
00:24 diakopter ( )++
00:24 jnthn (  )++
00:24 diakopter mubot: karma ' '
00:24 mubot ' ' is of an unknown quantity
00:25 diakopter mubot: karma ( )
00:25 mubot ( ) is of an unknown quantity
00:25 jnthn mubot: karma
00:25 diakopter mubot: karma
00:25 mubot has a karma of 1
00:25 mubot has a karma of 1
00:25 diakopter mubot: karma
00:25 mubot has a karma of 1
00:25 carlin mubot: karma
00:25 mubot walking barefoot through a construction site: 1 | moritz: 9 | mj41: 1 | masak: 5 | jnthn): 3 | jnthn: 6 | carlin: 7 | Wolfman2000: 1 | Tene: 1 | KyleHa: 9 | Jonathan Worthington: 1 |
00:25 diakopter diakopter--++
00:25 diakopter mubot: karma diakopter
00:25 mubot diakopter is of an unknown quantity
00:25 diakopter diakopter--
00:25 diakopter mubot: karma diakopter
00:25 mubot diakopter has a karma of -1
00:26 diakopter --diakopter++
00:26 diakopter mubot: karma diakopter
00:26 mubot diakopter has a karma of 0
00:26 diakopter ++diakopter--
00:26 diakopter mubot: karma diakopter
00:26 mubot diakopter has a karma of 1
00:26 diakopter increment beats decrement
00:26 jnthn Heh, I like.
00:26 jnthn It always tries to see the good side. :-)
00:26 jnthn Optimist bot.
00:28 diakopter mubot: karma (hi)(hihi)
00:28 mubot (hi)(hihi) is of an unknown quantity
00:28 diakopter (hi)(hihi)++
00:28 diakopter mubot: karma (hi)(hihi)
00:28 mubot (hi)(hihi) is of an unknown quantity
00:28 diakopter different patterns
00:29 carlin mubot: karma hihi
00:29 mubot hihi is of an unknown quantity
00:29 diakopter well, maybe
00:29 diakopter mubot: karma (hihi)
00:29 mubot (hihi) is of an unknown quantity
00:29 diakopter mubot: karma hi)(hihi)
00:29 mubot hi)(hihi) is of an unknown quantity
00:29 diakopter mubot: karma )(hihi)
00:29 ihrd joined #perl6
00:29 mubot )(hihi) is of an unknown quantity
00:29 diakopter mubot: karma hihi)
00:29 mubot hihi) is of an unknown quantity
00:29 diakopter weird
00:29 jnthn I think we may have fuzzed enough by now. :-)
00:30 diakopter mubot: karma )
00:30 mubot ) is of an unknown quantity
00:30 diakopter ok
00:30 carlin mubot: karma hi)(hihi
00:30 * jnthn distracts diakopter with std
00:30 mubot hi)(hihi has a karma of 1
00:30 diakopter ohhh
00:30 diakopter carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++ carlin++
00:30 carlin .oO( Being able to see the karma.log file helps )
00:30 diakopter mubot: karma carlin
00:30 mubot carlin has a karma of 8
00:31 carlin Yeah...
00:31 carlin I wonder how I could make that work
00:31 diakopter carlin++ \n carlin++
00:31 diakopter mubot: karma carlin
00:31 mubot carlin has a karma of 9
00:31 diakopter :)
00:31 diakopter mubot: karma $ENV{PATH}
00:31 mubot $ENV{PATH} is of an unknown quantity
00:32 diakopter :)
00:32 * diakopter is finally distracted by std
00:33 orafu joined #perl6
00:35 diakopter rakudo: &.say
00:35 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Lexical 'self' not found␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤»
00:36 diakopter rakudo: (*.say)(88)
00:36 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«88␤»
00:36 diakopter why would ( ) create a block there
00:42 jnthn It doesn't.
00:42 jnthn * does
00:42 diakopter yeah but I'd expect the block to be { (*.say)(88) }
00:43 jnthn ?
00:43 jnthn No
00:43 jnthn *.say becomes { .say }
00:43 jnthn { .say }(88) invokes it.
00:43 diakopter but those are parens
00:44 nihiliad joined #perl6
00:44 diakopter rakudo: { (say *) }(89)
00:44 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«!whatever_closure␤»
00:44 diakopter urgh, gurgle, snort
00:45 jnthn ...not quite sure what that did...
00:45 diakopter see!??!??!??!!!!!! :)
00:45 jnthn Either way, while I could maybe argue that *.foo(...) would make a closure like { $_.foo(...) }
00:45 jnthn I have a harder time seeing that (*.foo)(...) would be the same thing.
00:46 jnthn I'd find it quite surprising if they were.
00:48 diakopter rakudo: {$a = *()($a)}(my $a = sub { $a($a) })($a)
00:48 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Method 'postcircumfix:( )' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6Sub'␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤»
00:49 diakopter uhm
00:49 * diakopter cries a little
00:58 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
01:01 zaslon loljnthnhazblogged! jnthn++ 'Relaying the metamodel foundations': http://use.perl.org/~JonathanWor​thington/journal/39844?from=rss
01:36 carlin :wq
01:36 * hugme hugs carlin, good vi(m) user!
01:36 carlin Heh
01:36 * carlin was looking at hugme's source
01:37 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
01:42 nihiliad joined #perl6
01:46 markmont joined #perl6
01:47 pdcawley joined #perl6
01:58 sjohnson <--- vim ninja
02:16 eternaleye joined #perl6
02:40 pnate joined #perl6
02:40 gfx joined #perl6
02:54 dukeleto who wants a commit bit to the parrot mirror on github ? so that y'all can create topic branches and such
02:55 dukeleto this is an un-official automagically updated personal mirror. no CLA required :)
03:00 payload1 joined #perl6
03:10 JimmyZ joined #perl6
03:12 agentzh joined #perl6
03:19 frederico joined #perl6
03:28 tomaw_ joined #perl6
03:29 sjohnson joined #perl6
03:29 JimmyZ joined #perl6
03:29 eternaleye joined #perl6
03:29 nihiliad joined #perl6
03:29 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
03:29 orafu joined #perl6
03:29 phenny joined #perl6
03:29 Maddingue joined #perl6
03:29 omega_ joined #perl6
03:29 hercynium joined #perl6
03:29 PerlJam joined #perl6
03:29 dalek joined #perl6
03:29 sri__ joined #perl6
03:29 eMaX joined #perl6
03:29 bloonix joined #perl6
03:29 justatheory joined #perl6
03:29 PacoLinux joined #perl6
03:29 colomon joined #perl6
03:29 parduncia joined #perl6
03:29 Woodi joined #perl6
03:29 reid04 joined #perl6
03:29 ssm joined #perl6
03:29 dj_goku joined #perl6
03:29 daemon joined #perl6
03:29 athomason joined #perl6
03:29 slavik1 joined #perl6
03:29 araujo joined #perl6
03:29 xinming joined #perl6
03:29 simcop2387 joined #perl6
03:29 crazed joined #perl6
03:29 charsbar_ joined #perl6
03:29 cosimo joined #perl6
03:29 b0nk joined #perl6
03:29 constant joined #perl6
03:29 cls_bsd joined #perl6
03:29 elmex joined #perl6
03:29 japhb joined #perl6
03:29 lambdabot joined #perl6
03:29 [particle] joined #perl6
03:29 gbacon joined #perl6
03:29 shachaf joined #perl6
03:29 pugs_svn joined #perl6
03:29 spinclad joined #perl6
03:29 hugme joined #perl6
03:29 jnthn joined #perl6
03:29 agentzh joined #perl6
03:29 payload1 joined #perl6
03:29 pdcawley joined #perl6
03:29 Lorn joined #perl6
03:29 kst joined #perl6
03:29 meppl joined #perl6
03:29 ejs joined #perl6
03:29 rapacity joined #perl6
03:29 IllvilJa joined #perl6
03:29 buu joined #perl6
03:29 zaslon joined #perl6
03:29 cotto_work joined #perl6
03:29 ronny_ joined #perl6
03:29 broquaint joined #perl6
03:29 frodwith joined #perl6
03:29 jsut|work joined #perl6
03:29 jiing joined #perl6
03:29 Paks joined #perl6
03:29 arnsholt joined #perl6
03:29 carlin joined #perl6
03:29 lisppaste3 joined #perl6
03:29 pnu joined #perl6
03:29 ilogger2 joined #perl6
03:29 s1n joined #perl6
03:29 Tene joined #perl6
03:29 drbean_ joined #perl6
03:29 dukeleto joined #perl6
03:29 zostay joined #perl6
03:29 astinus joined #perl6
03:29 yahooooo joined #perl6
03:29 betterworld joined #perl6
03:35 ihrd left #perl6
03:39 carlin SF++ # http://lastofthecarelessmen.blogspot.co​m/2009/11/unsolicited-code-review.html
03:43 lisppaste3 joined #perl6
03:46 envi^office joined #perl6
03:49 envi^home joined #perl6
03:56 JimmyZ__ joined #perl6
04:14 mubot joined #perl6
04:15 carlin mubot: help
04:15 mubot usage: mubot: [karma [name] | purge <name> | link <nick> <alternative>] | <name>++ | <name>--
04:16 carlin mubot: karma SF
04:16 mubot SF has a karma of 1
04:17 carlin SF++ # excellent http://github.com/carlins/mubot/commit/3​6d26eaa303153282dfa71cc7812aab75b883350
04:20 pugs_svn r28990 | kyle++ | [t/spec] Tests for RT 70229: Failure stringifies wrong, etc.
04:36 meppl joined #perl6
04:37 dukeleto pmichaud: latest nqp-rx does not compile for me
04:38 gfx joined #perl6
04:39 nbrown joined #perl6
04:39 dukeleto pmichaud: http://nopaste.snit.ch/18571
04:39 pugs_svn r28991 | kyle++ | [t/spec] I worry that Nil might (wrongly) return one empty string and pass anyway
04:54 spinclad rakudo: say (my $a = { $^a($a) + * })($a);
04:54 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
04:56 justatheory joined #perl6
05:02 diakopter spinclad: :)
05:11 zaslon joined #perl6
05:13 Wolfman2000 sorry for semi afk. Been kept busy tonight.
05:13 Wolfman2000 I'll be more focused tomorrow hopefully
05:15 jaldhar joined #perl6
05:24 xp_prg joined #perl6
05:32 Bzek joined #perl6
05:33 mubot joined #perl6
05:42 carlin zaslon: add carlin http://theintersect.org/category/perl6/feed/
05:42 zaslon I am now following carlin's blog
05:54 zaslon lolcarlinhazblogged! carlin++ 'Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto': http://theintersect.org/20​09/domo-arigato-mr-roboto/
06:01 charsbar joined #perl6
06:07 eternaleye joined #perl6
06:26 NorwayGeek joined #perl6
06:55 Su-Shee joined #perl6
06:55 Su-Shee good morning.
06:58 diakopter Su-Shee: hi
07:17 zaslon joined #perl6
07:17 pointme joined #perl6
07:18 mubot joined #perl6
07:24 mubot joined #perl6
07:24 pointme joined #perl6
07:38 moritz_ good morning
07:38 diakopter moritz_: ahoy
07:46 payload joined #perl6
08:07 _eMaX_ joined #perl6
08:10 diakopter moritz_: I was introduced to the table tennis table at $job's office today (yay)
08:10 moritz_ nice!
08:10 elmex_ joined #perl6
08:18 _eMaX_ joined #perl6
08:19 moritz_ dukeleto: maybe you need a 'make clean' in nqp-rx?
08:20 japhb moritz_, I believe he resolved it, but only said so on #parrot.
08:21 moritz_ good. Thanks japhb
08:25 iblechbot joined #perl6
08:29 payload joined #perl6
08:33 rfordinal joined #perl6
08:34 mariuz joined #perl6
08:34 _eMaX_ joined #perl6
08:53 JimmyZ joined #perl6
09:00 [particle] joined #perl6
09:07 payload joined #perl6
09:16 _eMaX_1 joined #perl6
09:18 hanekomu joined #perl6
09:26 JimmyZ__ joined #perl6
09:33 drbean joined #perl6
09:33 jaffa8 joined #perl6
09:33 Helios- joined #perl6
09:37 agentzh joined #perl6
09:38 payload joined #perl6
09:40 rgrau joined #perl6
10:22 IllvilJa joined #perl6
10:46 kst joined #perl6
11:03 astrojp left #perl6
11:06 ab5tract joined #perl6
11:14 jiing_ joined #perl6
11:25 nbrown joined #perl6
11:31 pnate2 joined #perl6
11:32 dakkar joined #perl6
11:38 krunen joined #perl6
11:45 payload joined #perl6
11:49 zamolxes joined #perl6
11:53 Su-Shee_ joined #perl6
12:02 envi^home joined #perl6
12:12 iblechbot joined #perl6
12:13 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
12:32 ruoso joined #perl6
12:32 lisppaste3 moritz_ pasted "With which letter do most nicks in here begin?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89825
12:33 * ruoso back from one week of conferences, including a YAPC
12:34 moritz_ revdiablo: which YAPC? and how was it?
12:45 explorer joined #perl6
12:49 ruoso moritz_, YAPC::Brasil and it was great... it was the first YAPC not hosted by other conference
12:50 bloonix joined #perl6
12:53 KyleHa joined #perl6
12:57 takadonet joined #perl6
12:57 takadonet morning all
13:04 colomon morning!
13:12 takadonet how are you colomon?
13:12 colomon okay.  how about you?
13:13 * colomon is also eager to see ng work well enough to become master...
13:14 takadonet doing well. Rewriting some perl/bash script that someone else wrote over a decade ago
13:15 moritz_ the ng branch is still going to take a while, I fear
13:16 takadonet NO!!!!!
13:16 takadonet hehe
13:16 colomon moritz_: by "a while", you mean a week or two, right?  ;)
13:16 takadonet Hopefully I get time to write some perl 6 scripts for work....
13:18 moritz_ colomon: we'll see
13:18 moritz_ I mean it's a lot of work, to redo 70% or so of the compiler
13:19 moritz_ even if you have the old code to copy from, and the experience of having it done once before
13:20 takadonet I have confidence in jnthn and pmichaud
13:20 colomon they were on fire over the weekend.
13:21 moritz_ I have confidence in them too; it'll just depend on their available tuits
13:48 kolibrie joined #perl6
13:53 Woodi tuits ?
13:53 willie__ joined #perl6
13:53 moritz_ time units
13:53 Woodi ah, thanx
13:54 willie__ left #perl6
13:54 moritz_ (idiomatic) Virtual tokens for an amount of time or attention that a particular issue would need to resolve.
13:54 moritz_ says wiktionary
13:56 * Woodi yesterday found term man-centuries...
13:57 moritz_ 0.1k man years? ;-)
13:57 Woodi yeah :)
13:57 Woodi topic wasn't p6 or was... do not remember :)
13:58 jnthn oh hi
13:58 * jnthn has power again
13:59 Woodi but i'm concern about 70% work in refactoring... there will be need of refactoring to remove nqp too ?
13:59 Woodi go go go jnthn++ :)
14:00 jnthn Where on earth did the 70% come from? :-)
14:01 kidd` joined #perl6
14:01 moritz_ that was my guess of how much of rakudo you're refactoring
14:02 Woodi it was for better statistics in time when you will finish :)
14:02 Wolfman2000 *yawn* morning
14:02 Woodi afternoon :)
14:02 Wolfman2000 sorry I was too distracted last night to do much Perl6 stuff
14:03 moritz_ no need to apologize
14:03 moritz_ jnthn: do you think 70% is the wrong ballpark? maybe a bit much...
14:03 jnthn Perhaps. The last couple of days haven't really been representitive of possible progress either.
14:04 PerlJam good morning
14:04 jnthn As I blogged yesterday, I hit a point where I needed to do some conceptual work, rather than just write code. :-)
14:05 jnthn I'm hopeful that we'll be able to pick up the pace again on it soon. :-)
14:05 PerlJam Even if it is 70% refactoring work, it takes place over the course of days or weeks to get a much cleaner, more maintainable system rather than months or years it took to build the "it works, but we're not sure how in some places" system  :)
14:05 PerlJam (IMHO)
14:06 moritz_ I'm not complaining about the refactor, not at all
14:06 mathw jnthn: Of course you have to stop sometimes and do some conceptual work. And from the sound of your blog post, you're going to get more out of this than first thought, so it's really quite astonishing.
14:07 PerlJam moritz_: sure.   Perhaps I'm just trying to keep things in perspective (out loud) for myself if no one else  :)
14:07 mathw I'm still in awe of these tools that have been built for making compilers with
14:07 PerlJam mathw: yeah, jnthn++, pmichaud++
14:07 PerlJam mathw: particularly pmichaud++  :)
14:08 jnthn mathw: The lazy lists we'll get out of this is another big win.
14:09 jnthn While I grant that we don't run many of the tests yet, having laziness and foundations for custom metaclasses in at this point - even if we can't test those - is a huge thing. :-)
14:09 frettled I think it's strange that there is a ?from=rss on these use.perl.org blogs, but I see nowhere in there to subscribe via RSS or Atom.
14:09 Woodi PerlJam: "we're not sure how" is sugestion for p5 ? :) no other examples come atm...
14:10 frettled jnthn: nice entry yesterday
14:11 moritz_ frettled: if you use a non-ancient browser you'll see the red feed symbol in the address bar when you visit a use.perl.org blog
14:12 moritz_ PerlJam: actually somebody thinks the refactor is a bad idea: http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comment​s/a0lyu/two_weeks_of_rakudong_work/
14:12 frettled moritz_: Thanks for the hint, _now_ I see a _blue_ feed symbol there
14:13 PerlJam moritz_: there are always naysayers.  I ignore them when I think they're wrong.  :)
14:13 moritz_ (s/red/orange/ btw, but I don't think the color is really canonical)
14:13 frettled moritz_: I'm used to it being orange, so I didn't notice it at all.  I'm also used to the webpage itself having a separate link :)
14:15 synth joined #perl6
14:18 jnthn that guy is a fail
14:19 jnthn If he even bothred doing some research, he could have read *why* the refactor.
14:19 NorwayGeek joined #perl6
14:19 moritz_ why research when you can troll?
14:20 frettled heh
14:20 frettled But trolling is so much fun! ;)
14:21 moritz_ that's the problem.
14:21 frettled Anyway, I think I _know_ that you guys don't embark on time consuming programming exercises in Perl 6 just because you've got a minor itch to scractch; I think you do it when there's something that itches horribly (i.e.: that really needs fixing).
14:22 frettled So ignore that doofus, whoever he is.
14:23 jnthn Heh, the refactor is fun in some ways, but it's also a serious amount of work too.
14:24 jnthn The kind that I wouldn't do just because I felt like it. :-)
14:24 PerlJam jnthn: you know you're just making up problems to solve with rakudo because you like insane amounts of work  ;)
14:24 PerlJam be honest ;)
14:25 jnthn :-P
14:25 frettled what does that operator do?
14:25 PerlJam frettled: heh!
14:26 PerlJam time for a new language -- emotical
14:26 PerlJam composed entirely of emoticons
14:26 jnthn rakudo: multi postfix:<:-P>($x) { say "$x neeehhh!!" }; "does this" :-P
14:26 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«does this neeehhh!!␤»
14:28 takadonet ....
14:29 jnthn Well I guess that answer is, "the :-P operator does whatever you define it to do" :-)
14:30 frettled rakudo: multi postfix<:D>($x) { say "$x joy joy!" }; "happy happy" :D
14:30 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Malformed routine definition at line 2, near "postfix<:D"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
14:30 frettled whoopsie, missed a colon.
14:30 frettled rakudo: multi postfix:<:D>($x) { say "$x joy joy!" }; "happy happy" :D
14:30 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«happy happy joy joy!␤»
14:31 jnthn Smile 6.
14:31 jnthn You could actually make an assertion system with this.
14:32 jnthn 0 <= $percentage <= 100 :-)
14:32 jnthn $x > $limit :-(
14:32 jnthn ...but it wasn't my idea. :-)
14:32 payload joined #perl6
14:33 masak joined #perl6
14:33 masak good afternoon, #perl6
14:34 PerlJam jnthn: have you seen ruby's rspec or cucumber ?  Check out the code examples at http://rspec.info
14:34 Wolfman2000 Good grief, have to get used to all of the different time zones we have.
14:34 PerlJam Wolfman2000: welcome to the internet  :)
14:35 jnthn Worse, some of us work in a different time zone than we live in. ;-)
14:36 jnthn PerlJam: But...they lack smilies ;-)
14:36 frettled This is why my own servers «work» in UTC.
14:36 masak rakudo: ({nextsame})()
14:36 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in clone()␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
14:36 masak did that one ever get reported?
14:37 jnthn Well, I've seen it plenty of times before...
14:37 jnthn Though that doesn't mean there's a ticket.
14:37 masak diakopter triggered it yesterday.
14:37 jnthn Yeah, but that wasn't the first time I've seen it.
14:37 masak then he allegedly played dumb when moritz_ told him to submit it :)
14:38 masak no wonder I get all the tickets around here! :)
14:38 * masak submits
14:49 * masak likes pmichaud++'s long 'priorities' email to parrot-dev
15:11 * mathw does too
15:11 mathw pmichaud++
15:11 masak ah, reddit. I love the topmost comment, and how it expresses several different kinds of cluelessness very succinctly. http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comment​s/a0lyu/two_weeks_of_rakudong_work/
15:12 masak there's some form of general "I want a pony, now" mentality on the Intertubes.
15:12 masak people like to whine and complain a lot, but they don't contribute, or learn about the actual state of things.
15:12 jnthn ...raku*dong*? :)
15:13 * jnthn declines to draw the logo for that project
15:13 masak and then there's people like jnthn... :P
15:13 payload joined #perl6
15:13 jnthn OK, Slovak class time.
15:13 jnthn Back later, probably.
15:14 masak have the appropriate amount of Slovak!
15:14 jnthn Budem! :-)
15:16 mathw masak: Clearly not an experienced programmer
15:16 frettled masak: that almost sounded obscene ;)
15:20 masak frettled: what, and jnthn's raku-dong wasn't? :)
15:21 PerlJam It wasn't jnthn's, that's what the URL had in it  :)
15:21 ab5tract joined #perl6
15:22 mathw actually it just made no sense
15:22 masak PerlJam: "obscenity is in the eye of the beholder" :)
15:22 mathw Slovak is not something you can have an amount of
15:23 masak mathw: sure you can! I have very little Slovak daily (most of it from jnthn), jnthn has a higher amount of daily Slovak...
15:23 mathw no, you 'know' languages
15:23 mathw maybe you 'understand' or 'speak' them
15:23 mathw but you don't 'have' them
15:23 mathw although people will probably understand you if you say that anyway :)
15:24 masak maybe I need to have more English. :P
15:24 mathw lol
15:24 PerlJam mathw: you are mistaken.  I have Perl.  I have Perl 6 too.  :)
15:24 mathw well I seem to recall using 'haben' for language capability in German
15:24 mathw so I'm guessing you do something similar in Swedish?
15:24 masak mathw: no, that's not what was involved here.
15:24 masak mathw: I just built on the template 'have the appropriate amount of fun'.
15:24 frettled mathw: You can «have» a Slovak, a Swede, an Englishman, etc.
15:25 masak mathw: and I didn't care much for the resulting meaning.
15:25 * PerlJam notes that the spanish speakers around here "have" language too.
15:25 mathw frettled: yes, I'm aware of that
15:25 reid02 joined #perl6
15:25 masak mathw: though for me, to 'have Slovak' would probably mean to have a Slovak class.
15:25 masak mathw: and that is (as you point out) not subject to gradation.
15:29 _particle_ joined #perl6
15:30 [particle] are you saying slovaks have no class?
15:31 s1n joined #perl6
15:32 Psyche^ joined #perl6
15:37 masak [particle]: quoting Babbage, "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
15:50 dukeleto moritz_: i fixed my nqp-rx issue, but thanks
15:51 masak spinclad: thanks for the heads-up about the brackets mismatch. the text was there, but it was transparent.
15:51 dukeleto moritz_, masak, jnthn : y'all have commit access to the parrot mirror on github now : https://github.com/leto/parrot , to easy the creation of review branches, etc
15:51 dukeleto s/easy/ease/g
15:52 * dukeleto can't type so good before coffee
15:55 PerlJam dukeleto: is parrot finally switching to git?  Or is it just the same old thing where many devs are using git?
15:57 justatheory joined #perl6
15:58 nihiliad joined #perl6
16:00 gfldex joined #perl6
16:01 dukeleto PerlJam: most parrot core devs want git, but we cannot move to git before 2.0
16:02 PerlJam 2.0 comes out in Jan 2010, right?
16:02 dukeleto PerlJam: many devs use git to make git branches of parrot and then just submit a patch later on
16:02 dukeleto PerlJam: yes
16:02 dukeleto PerlJam: post 2.0, i am going to be lobbying hard for a git conversion
16:03 PerlJam dukeleto++  :)
16:03 dukeleto PerlJam: but a git conversion has not yet been set in stone or given a definite version number
16:03 dukeleto PerlJam: I estimate that it will happen between 2.0 and 3.0 :)
16:03 dukeleto PerlJam: hopefully closer to 2.0 ;)
16:24 payload joined #perl6
16:31 pugs_svn r28992 | particle++ | [perl6.org] say 'chat live' to make link action more clear
16:39 brunov joined #perl6
16:43 fax joined #perl6
16:48 pugs_svn r28993 | particle++ | [perl6.org] use non-breaking spaces when referencing perl versions
16:50 moritz_ didn't we do that already
16:50 [particle] apparently not, or it needs to be done more than once
16:50 moritz_ [particle]: they were just entered as non-breaking spaces, not as their HTML entity
16:51 [particle] ah.  that's not easy to see :)
16:51 moritz_ a question of your editor ;-)
16:51 [particle] i wonder if i can make vim shade non-breaking spaces differently
16:52 moritz_ Ctrl+k NS ENTER
16:52 moritz_ / Ctrl+k NS ENTER
16:53 [particle] set listchars=nbsp:¬
16:54 [particle] i'd rather have it differently colored, though, rather than displaying a different character
16:54 moritz_ that's what the search does, if you set hlsearch
16:55 [particle] yes, but i want it permanent
16:57 moritz_ hi link nonprintable Error
16:57 moritz_ au Syntax * syn match nonprintable / / display
16:59 rfordinal3643 joined #perl6
17:00 SmokeMachine rakudo: my @a=1, 1 ... {$^a + $^b}; @a[2].say
17:00 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: TIMED_OUT
17:00 moritz_ SmokeMachine: it's not yet lazy
17:00 moritz_ rakudo: my @a=1, 1 ... {$^a + $^b}, 100; @a[2].say
17:00 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«2␤»
17:00 SmokeMachine moritz_, hum... sorry...
17:00 moritz_ SmokeMachine: no problem
17:01 SmokeMachine moritz_, thank's
17:01 moritz_ rakudo: my @a=1, 1 ... {$^a + $^b}, 100; say ~@a[0..4]
17:01 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«1 1 2 3 5␤»
17:01 yves joined #perl6
17:01 moritz_ rakudo: my @a=1, 1 ... *+*, 100; say ~@a[0..4]
17:01 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«1 1 2 4 8␤»
17:01 moritz_ that just doubles, hm
17:02 jnthn I should actually learn what the series operator does some day...
17:02 moritz_ jnthn: it just invokes the closure with the last $closure.count items
17:03 moritz_ jnthn: there are magic versions too, though
17:03 moritz_ rakudo: say 'a' ... 'g'
17:03 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«abcdefg␤»
17:04 jnthn rakudo: say 'a' .. 'g'
17:04 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«abcdefg␤»
17:04 jnthn Is that still spec?
17:04 moritz_ yes
17:05 moritz_ just :by is gone
17:13 desertm4x joined #perl6
17:13 beggars joined #perl6
17:13 szabgab joined #perl6
17:13 jnthn Ah, OK.
17:30 brunov joined #perl6
17:38 envi^home joined #perl6
17:48 cdarroch joined #perl6
17:55 stephenlb joined #perl6
17:58 ejs joined #perl6
17:59 desertm4x_ joined #perl6
18:00 am0c joined #perl6
18:03 xp_prg joined #perl6
18:05 TimToady I rather suspect that the (Num @array) problem is going to become our #1 FAQ if we don't do something about it.
18:06 Juerd What kind of doing something are you thinking of?
18:07 jnthn TimToady: What Num @array problem?
18:07 jnthn Or were the parens significant?
18:07 TimToady it's a sig
18:07 TimToady but it doesn't match 1,2,3
18:08 TimToady or even [1,2,3]
18:08 jnthn Right.
18:08 jnthn Well, the real issue is that there's no good way that I know of to write a litral typed list or array.
18:08 jnthn *literal
18:08 jnthn Or is there?
18:09 TimToady can't use Num[] since that means generics
18:09 jnthn Right.
18:10 jnthn And Array[Num](1,2,3) is a tad, well, hefty.
18:10 TimToady (Array of Num)(1,2,3) is clunky too
18:10 jnthn Yes
18:10 jnthn [1, 2, 3] of Num
18:11 jnthn [1, 2, 3] :of(Num) # adverb to the circumfix...
18:11 jnthn If that ever could work. I still don't like it so much.
18:11 * Juerd would prefer a syntax where the type is in front of the array
18:11 TimToady adverbs are usually a desgin smell
18:11 TimToady not to mention a design smell
18:11 jnthn Juerd: Yeah, that was actually my main dislike.
18:11 Wolfman2000 joined #perl6
18:12 moritz_ why do we have them, then?
18:12 moritz_ as a design smell trap?
18:12 TimToady Nummy 1,2,3  :)
18:12 Wolfman2000 ...I've chosen a bad wireless location I think.
18:13 TimToady moritz_: yes, they're design smell trap because they are a feature intended to patch up a bad design, which you need sometimes :)
18:13 Juerd Nameless assignment?
18:13 Juerd Num @ = ...;
18:14 moritz_ that looks so perl5ish ;-)
18:14 Juerd moritz_: I love Perl 5
18:14 TimToady Juerd: can't parse Num without a my or some such in front
18:14 moritz_ me to. To a certain extend ;-)
18:15 Wolfman2000 ...and just as I was about to be able to try out some more data structure stuff for Perl6, I've been emailed to help with another situation. Gah.
18:15 TimToady std: Num @ = ...;
18:15 p6eval std 28993: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Confused at /tmp/Iuzipc5eHZ line 1:␤------> [32mNum [33m⏏[31m@ = ...;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤     bracketed infix␤  infix stopper␤    standard stopper␤ statement modifier loop␤  terminator␤FAILED 00:01 107m␤»
18:15 Wolfman2000 At least this new situation will involve payment. Sorry guys, but money kind of helps. *semi afk*
18:19 frettled Okay, this is a challenge.
18:20 frettled It's a challenge of the kind: "Oh, look, here I am in the corner, and there's wet paint all around. Hmm."
18:20 frettled so the solution is obviously to either 1) let the paint dry, or 2) walk onto the wet paint, paint the corner, and paint over your tracks as you proceed towards the door.
18:20 frettled HTH, HAND.  :)
18:21 TimToady 3) swing from the chandalier
18:21 Juerd frettled: You're assuming there's a door :)
18:21 frettled do we have a chandelier?
18:22 frettled Juerd: not having one would be a surprise, kind of, but I'm sure we have at least an exit().
18:22 TimToady 4) dig up a few floorboards and escape to the basement
18:22 alester joined #perl6
18:22 TimToady 5) quantum tunnel through the wall
18:23 TimToady 6) rewire the microwave so it'll work with the door open, and then aim it at the paint
18:23 TimToady 7) hot air balloon
18:24 moritz_ 8) make a video of it, upload it to youtube, make a fortune of it, and hire some real painters to it properly for you next time
18:24 frettled But we're not Python developers, where will we find the hot air?
18:25 frettled moritz_: that was an extra good one :)
18:25 frettled Though I'm not sure what this message would say: "Perl 7 - we hired professionals this time"
18:26 Juerd of Num: 1, 2, 3
18:26 Juerd # Num.of(1, 2, 3)
18:26 moritz_ frettled: just don#t overstrech the analogy ;-)
18:26 sjohnson joined #perl6
18:27 moritz_ s/#/'/
18:27 frettled moritz_: what, are you worried that the bungee cord that we tied to the chandelier will a) bring down the chandelier, or b) tear off?
18:27 Juerd Hm, but how does it know it's supposed to be an array, not a hash...
18:27 Juerd of Num: [ 1, 2, 3 ]
18:28 frettled Nøm [ 1, 2, 3 ]
18:28 Juerd nomnom
18:28 jnthn std: [ Num: 1, 2, 3 ]
18:28 p6eval std 28993: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Illegal redeclaration of 'Num' at /tmp/0ptRqUQcPu line 1:␤------> [32m[ Num: [33m⏏[31m1, 2, 3 ][0m␤FAILED 00:01 106m␤»
18:29 jnthn ...I redeclared?
18:29 TimToady label
18:29 jnthn oh
18:29 frettled And how do we specify multidimensionals with different types, or, or, or? :D
18:29 jnthn ...label inside a circumfix?!
18:29 TimToady all circumfixes are statements inside
18:29 jnthn Do not need.
18:29 jnthn heh
18:30 jnthn goto inside_of_a_circumfix_duh
18:30 frettled inside are statements all circumfixes?
18:31 TimToady std: [ $_ * 2 if .odd for 1..100 ]  # that's how list comprehensions work
18:31 p6eval std 28993: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 108m␤»
18:32 TimToady and why we don't need special syntax for them, unlike, say, Python
18:32 Juerd Nice one
18:33 jnthn TimToady: To be clear, it was the labels inside circumfixes I was saying "do not need" to, not parsing a statement in there. But I figure then we fail on consistency, which isn't so good.
18:33 TimToady is also why we relaxed the "only one statement modifier" rule
18:33 * Juerd never quite liked that rule
18:33 TimToady why wouldn't you need a label there?
18:34 jnthn Well, maybe you would.
18:34 TimToady std: [ LINE: for lines() { next LINE unless /foo/; $_ } ]
18:34 p6eval std 28993: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 110m␤»
18:34 jnthn yeah. :-/
18:34 jnthn OK, that won't work then.
18:35 TimToady it seems to me that we want two things
18:35 TimToady 1) an easier way to coerce those things explicitly
18:35 TimToady 2) an easier way to say DWIM, darnit!
18:36 Juerd If you invent 2, you get 1 for free, right? :)
18:36 TimToady not necessarily
18:36 TimToady not if 2) doesn't DWYRM
18:37 TimToady but we already did a little of 2 with <1 2 3>
18:37 frettled mm
18:37 jnthn I guess we don't want to go down the "if they're all literals and of the same type, just make a typed list/array"?
18:37 Juerd is(DWIM, DWIRM);  # luser sanity check
18:37 TimToady that would probably be a little too dwimmy
18:38 Wolfman2000 joined #perl6
18:38 Wolfman2000 okay, I think I'm at a better connection spot
18:39 TimToady but it's certainly one extreme in design, and might work out better than expected if, say Array of Int ends up matching Array of Num in the sig
18:39 Wolfman2000 rakudo: say 3 > NULL;
18:39 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Could not find non-existent sub NULL␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤»
18:40 Wolfman2000 ...right, undef
18:40 TimToady that is, over-narrowing the type to Int @ might just end up dispatching back to (Num @array) anyway
18:40 Wolfman2000 rakudo: say 3 > undef;
18:40 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤1␤»
18:40 Wolfman2000 ...gah, is my memory really off?
18:40 TimToady what are you trying to do?
18:41 Wolfman2000 TimToady: Just want to see if any integer is greater than null or undef or whatever the perl empty value was that I can't seem to remember.
18:41 Wolfman2000 doesn't help that I now can't connect back to my Feather Box
18:41 Wolfman2000 I'm getting timed out errors
18:41 moritz_ Wolfman2000: well, it did say 1 at the end
18:41 moritz_ so it 3 > undef is true
18:42 moritz_ it just also warned
18:42 frettled TimToady: Is that a way of saying that we solve that problem when we try to do something with the array, rather than when we initialize it?
18:42 Wolfman2000 moritz_: ...didn't see that. Saw the use of uninitialized value aprt.
18:43 moritz_ frettled: it's mostly about lists, not arrays
18:43 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
18:43 moritz_ and they are usually not declared
18:43 Wolfman2000 ...I'm not having good ping results, am I?
18:43 meppl joined #perl6
18:43 moritz_ they are either literals, or results from other operations
18:44 frettled moritz_: if you have results from operations, then the operations could provide internal hints.  But for literals, you don't really get good hints.
18:45 moritz_ frettled: isn't it more the other way round? literals we can inspect at compile time...
18:46 moritz_ frettled: but a map() usually has no clue what kind of list it returns
18:46 frettled moritz_: well, not all operations can know, but some can.  For literals, you don't know whether it's Int or Num, as exemplified.
18:47 moritz_ you don't?
18:47 moritz_ 3 <-- Int
18:47 frettled Okay, how do you know whether <1 2 3> is a list of Int or Num?
18:47 moritz_ 3.4 <-- Rat
18:47 moritz_ sure, Int
18:47 moritz_ and since Int ~~ Num that's no problem
18:47 frettled But if I want to coerce it to be Int or Num, then what?
18:48 moritz_ why would you want to coerce it into a List[Num] if a List[Int] will do just fine?
18:49 frettled Because I might want to use it for something other than Int at a later time without getting an error?
18:49 moritz_ lists are immutable
18:49 moritz_ you can't stuff anything into them anyway
18:50 frettled moritz_: well, in that case, we _were_ talking about arrays, not lists :)
18:50 frettled moritz_: sorry for being easily confused today, I'm still having a fever.
18:51 moritz_ frettled: arrays need to be declared anyway, so you can just declare them appropriately
18:51 moritz_ my Num @a;
18:52 frettled moritz_: See what jnthn wrote about there not being a way to write a literal typed list or array.
18:52 TimToady moritz_: [...] is an undeclared array
18:52 moritz_ TimToady: point taken
18:53 TimToady looking at currently illegal syntax...
18:53 moritz_ there's not much left :(
18:53 frettled one changelog entry away from being legal?
18:53 TimToady std: @[Num] 1,2,3
18:53 p6eval std 28993: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Anonymous variable requires declarator at /tmp/R0xFwCrwUb line 1:␤------> [32m@[33m⏏[31m[Num] 1,2,3[0m␤    expecting twigil␤FAILED 00:01 105m␤»
18:53 TimToady std: @*
18:53 p6eval std 28993: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Anonymous variable requires declarator at /tmp/8pJwMl4LMU line 1:␤------> [32m@[33m⏏[31m*[0m␤    expecting twigil␤FAILED 00:01 103m␤»
18:53 TimToady std: @*(1,2,3)
18:53 p6eval std 28993: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Anonymous variable requires declarator at /tmp/9J4JqeSF7b line 1:␤------> [32m@[33m⏏[31m*(1,2,3)[0m␤    expecting twigil␤FAILED 00:01 103m␤»
18:54 diakopter there went feather
18:54 Wolfman2000 diakopter: So I wasn't the only one with feather connecting problems?
18:54 TimToady maybe I killed it with the @* :)
18:55 Wolfman2000 ...I'll hope it's restored in roughly 5 minutes: I have to change wireless locations. The college library sucks right now.
18:55 frettled Wolfman2000: what about a wired connection?  :D
18:55 diakopter p6eval is on another vps of mine
18:55 TimToady yes, I know, I was just thinking it killed it in absentia
18:56 diakopter hah
18:56 TimToady I was intentionally applying post hoc reasoning :)
18:56 jhorwitz joined #perl6
18:57 diakopter I knew I had concluded that was the only good kind, for a reason.
18:57 diakopter the only good kind of reasoning, I mean
18:57 TimToady the only propter kind of reasoning, anyway
18:59 diakopter where's crythias when we need him
18:59 frettled better than post doc reasoning
18:59 frettled (phdcomics)
18:59 TimToady we should do something while jnthn and pmichaud are offline :)
18:59 moritz_ @[Num] is the least bad so far, IMHO
18:59 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
19:00 moritz_ lambdabot: and you shut up
19:00 diakopter oh yeah, I wanted to announce that I converted sprixel over to be a PAST interpreter
19:00 diakopter nqp hosting, here we come
19:00 moritz_ oh wow
19:01 diakopter Q:PIR support will be tricky ;)
19:01 * moritz_ greps for Q:PIR in nqp-rx
19:01 * diakopter thought there was some
19:01 moritz_ not all that much, actually
19:02 * diakopter acks
19:02 Wolfman2000 joined #perl6
19:02 moritz_ many of them are things like
19:02 moritz_ our @BLOCK := Q:PIR { %r = new ['ResizablePMCArray'] };
19:02 diakopter set-property or whatever
19:02 Wolfman2000 To any Perlers (anyone have a better name?) that go to college: student unions > libraries
19:02 Wolfman2000 diakopter: feather still down for you?
19:02 diakopter yeah
19:03 Wolfman2000 then at least it's not just me
19:03 moritz_ get_hll_global, find_lex, set_hll_global
19:03 Wolfman2000 I was trying to plan the right way to implement a linked list.
19:03 Wolfman2000 I need to get better with Perl 6 classes in general before I can feel I can contribtue decently to Web.pm
19:04 frettled I'm trying to think of something that @[Num] could be confused with.
19:04 diakopter and I improved the interpreter-engine-in-js another 100-fold by caching cloner closures for each ast node on initialization
19:04 moritz_ diakopter: there seem to be about 10 Q:PIR in nqp-rx that you'd need to substitute... don't know how much PIR runtime there is though
19:04 TimToady Wolfman2000: I think your subs > libs would qualify as reasoning from specific to general :)
19:04 diakopter so it gets around 30m ops/second on my machine
19:05 diakopter which isn't atrocious
19:05 Wolfman2000 TimToady: I don't think I understand exactly what you mean.
19:05 TimToady subs > libs in your experience
19:05 TimToady that doesn't mean it will work for everyone...
19:06 Wolfman2000 subs...as in subroutines.
19:06 Wolfman2000 and libs as in libraries
19:06 TimToady subs == student union buildings
19:06 diakopter Wolfman2000: store each link in the linked list in a closure! that'll optimize for efficiency.  I'm kidding.
19:06 Wolfman2000 diakopter: I'll have no problem with people modifying my code...within reason.
19:06 Wolfman2000 I'll code it the way I know how, and then you guys can help me with making it more perl like
19:07 frettled TimToady: I always think of expensive sandwiches ;)
19:07 Wolfman2000 ...actually, since Perl 6 isn't even out of beta, what IS considered perl like?
19:07 [particle] joined #perl6
19:08 TimToady What is the sound of six Perls not clapping?
19:08 Wolfman2000 undef
19:08 * Wolfman2000 doesn't know
19:09 TimToady there are many kinds of undef in Perl 6 :)
19:09 Wolfman2000 ...shows how behind I am then.
19:09 Wolfman2000 Not just a plain undef anymore...can you elaborate on how defined undef can be?
19:10 TimToady see S02:991
19:10 Wolfman2000 Synopsis 2...never figured out what the other numbers meant
19:10 Wolfman2000 come on perlcabal, load...
19:10 moritz_ Wolfman2000: it's a line number
19:11 moritz_ Wolfman2000: if you look at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/today that S02:991 is turned into a link
19:11 TimToady which reads http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#line_991
19:11 moritz_ Wolfman2000: which points directly to the line of the spec that TimToady is talking about
19:11 Wolfman2000 ...wow. live logging
19:11 Wolfman2000 Also, the page wouldn't load
19:12 Wolfman2000 timed out
19:12 moritz_ that's hosted on feather
19:12 moritz_ gotcha
19:12 mberends joined #perl6
19:12 Wolfman2000 okay, who is tarring and feathering the bird?
19:12 TimToady I thought we were supposed to tar and feature it...
19:13 Wolfman2000 If you do that, the bird can't fly.
19:13 Wolfman2000 Then again, perhaps I'm mixing up my analogies now.
19:13 hercynium rakudo: { say .clap if undef } for 'perl' x 6
19:13 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8:  ( no output )
19:13 hercynium (that took me far too long to get working in priv)
19:14 hercynium (and probably still doesn't do what I think it does)
19:15 TimToady interesting, feather seems to have even dropped from DNS
19:15 [1]jaffa8 joined #perl6
19:16 Wolfman2000 ...dropped? Meaning...we no longer have it?
19:16 TimToady seems a bit late for asteroids in the NL
19:16 TimToady if anyone still has feather's old IP address, try logging onto that...
19:16 moritz_ 193.200.132.135
19:16 moritz_ for feather1
19:16 moritz_ nope
19:17 moritz_ not reachable
19:17 Wolfman2000 Can't seem to SSH into it myself
19:17 TimToady maybe it's just a dike
19:17 moritz_ 8  compukos.demarc.nik-ams.nl.as8312.net (195.210.57.163)  10.832 ms  11.075 ms  11.046 ms is the last hop
19:18 TimToady amsterdam, I guess
19:18 TimToady so probably not a dike :)
19:19 TimToady I wonder if feather is in the same building as its dns server...
19:19 Wolfman2000 ...are you saying the feather server may be flooded TimToady?
19:19 moritz_ TimToady: wouldn't surprise me
19:19 TimToady no, I'm saying probably not that, now... :)
19:20 TimToady more likely localized power failure
19:20 TimToady so if a flood, probably only someone's basement
19:20 Su-Shee I get this IP for feather.nl: 194.165.34.128
19:21 Wolfman2000 connection refused for SSHing purposes
19:21 TimToady well, probably hasn't got a lot to do with perl6.nl
19:22 Wolfman2000 ...should we perhaps mirror some of the synopses somewhere?
19:23 * moritz_ has a local git mirror of the docs/ dir
19:23 Wolfman2000 moritz_: I meant a web accessible mirror
19:23 moritz_ Wolfman2000: http://perl6.cz/wiki/Synopses/en
19:23 frettled My traceroute to feather.nl completes nicely.
19:23 moritz_ frettled: but we're interested in feather.perl6.nl
19:24 frettled ah, duh :)
19:24 Wolfman2000 I don't think line numbers work too well with the wiki page moritz_
19:24 moritz_ Wolfman2000: right
19:25 frettled The nameservers for perl6.nl are in the same RIPE IP range, at least, which is not BCP.
19:26 frettled (and hasn't been for at least 15 years)
19:26 moritz_ BCP?
19:26 frettled none of them respond.
19:26 frettled moritz_: best current practice
19:27 TimToady or maybe the creditors pulled the plug, literally...
19:27 frettled ooh, even worse, the nameservers for the nameservers are the nameservers themselves.
19:27 frettled foot shot.
19:27 Wolfman2000 ah, more undefined types...here we go
19:27 Wolfman2000 undef, fail, Nil, Object, Whatever, and Failure
19:28 TimToady Num, Int, Str etc. as well
19:28 TimToady rakudo: say Num.defined
19:28 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«0␤»
19:28 moritz_ rakudo++
19:28 diakopter TimToady: I think feather hosted DNS for perl6.nl at some point as well...
19:28 frettled Dordrecht.  When I visited with Abigail this fall, we went to Dordrecht after photographing windmills.
19:29 Wolfman2000 rakudo: say -9999999999 > -Inf;
19:29 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:29 diakopter did you tilt the camera slightly?
19:29 Wolfman2000 just checking
19:29 frettled diakopter: probably
19:29 diakopter oh good
19:30 TimToady yeah, the bottom half of a windmill isn't terribly interesting
19:30 Wolfman2000 ...a polymorphic type? When did I miss this?
19:30 TimToady CS 201?
19:31 Wolfman2000 rakudo: my Int|Num $test = 1; $test += 0.5; say $test;
19:31 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Malformed declaration at line 2, near "Int|Num $t"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
19:31 Wolfman2000 :(
19:31 TimToady that syntax is unlikely to work in the long run
19:32 Wolfman2000 are there plans for alternate syntax?
19:32 TimToady both | and & already mean something else in signatures
19:32 TimToady not yet
19:33 Wolfman2000 ∪ This is the union shape. What can be an equivalent to this...
19:33 TimToady we're not in a hurry to add unions as storage types
19:33 frettled TimToady: oh, the bottom half of the windmill is more exciting, that's where all the cool stuff is.
19:34 TimToady but that's inside where you can't see it from the outside
19:35 TimToady Wolfman2000: and you can already add unioned constraints by defining a subset type
19:35 TimToady you just can't have a variable whose type is a subset type
19:35 frettled The outside has the brake, the sail adjustment, the gates, the water paddle access, the door, the windows, the pier, ...
19:35 TimToady just a variable whose type is constrained to match the subset type
19:36 Wolfman2000 ...then what kind of type is a good name for both Int and Num?
19:36 juerd joined #perl6
19:36 frettled Num!
19:36 moritz_ Real
19:36 moritz_ Numeric
19:36 juerd In case you're wondering why feather's unreachable: our fiber uplink is dead :(
19:36 TimToady Wolfman2000: the trouble is that you're meaning more than one thing by "type"
19:36 Wolfman2000 Got any Phoenix Downs?
19:36 diakopter get out the polisher
19:37 moritz_ juerd: good to know, thanks
19:37 frettled juerd: yep, I can see that it took your DNS and hosting provider out, you could mention to them that having at least one NS in a different physical location is a Good Thing™
19:38 frettled juerd: tough luck, though :(
19:38 Wolfman2000 ...in all seriousness, is there a way to revive the uplink?
19:38 juerd frettled: I am my DNS and hosting provider.
19:38 TimToady on one level, there is no such thing as something which is both Int and Num
19:38 frettled juerd: aha.  Well, tell yourself, then.  :D
19:38 TimToady on another level, an Int is a kind of Num
19:38 juerd frettled: An off-site DNS server is going to be set up in the next two months.
19:39 juerd It used to be entirely useless as the DNS only pointed to hosts behind the same connection.
19:39 frettled And now I see the connection between your nae and that of the tech-c - heh, slow me.
19:39 juerd Wolfman2000: A switch is broken. The connection can be revived by fixing or replacing the switch. Our fiber supplier's engineers are working on it.
19:40 TimToady biab &
19:40 kidd` joined #perl6
19:40 Wolfman2000 *nods to all conversations...plenty to take in*
19:40 frettled Wolfman2000: hee-hee :)
19:40 frettled juerd: don't you just love this kind of situation?
19:41 juerd frettled: No, I'm furious.
19:41 Su-Shee left #perl6
19:41 juerd Especially since it is the third time in a few months.
19:41 frettled juerd: yow
19:41 frettled juerd: that's way too often
19:41 juerd It's no use being furious outside office hours though.
19:41 juerd (20:41 here)
19:42 frettled juerd: we've been bitten similarly at my workplace, but we have four redundant fiber links, so it hasn't hurt _much_
19:42 juerd We can't possibly afford that.
19:42 zaslon lolmoritzhazblogged! moritz++ 'Perl 6: Lost in Wonderland': http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/pe​rl-6/lost-in-wonderland.html
19:42 juerd This single link costs us over 2000 EUR/month.
19:44 frettled Look on the bright side; it's cheaper than a 56 kbps Atlantic link was in 1995.  ;)
19:45 frettled Does your SLA give you some kind of compensation?
19:45 diakopter moritz_: typo - Plant Perl
19:45 moritz_ he ;-)
19:46 juerd frettled: Yes, but that's but a fraction of the actual loss, which is mostly one of reputation.
19:46 moritz_ that's a problem with English - far too many typos produce valid words again
19:46 moritz_ which my spell checker can't catch, obviously
19:46 Wolfman2000 If anyone is able to teach me ひらがな properly so I don't have to worry about english, by all means let me know.
19:47 * Wolfman2000 is more a math person than an english person
19:47 frettled Wolfman2000: I'm quite sure you can have interesting typos in ひらがな as well.
19:47 Wolfman2000 bah
19:47 mdxi and if you always write in hiragana, you read like a 5 year-old :)
19:48 Wolfman2000 mdxi: I know very little hiragana and katakana. The only kanji I really know is from playing DDR
19:48 mdxi ("read" as in "sound like", not "read" as in "have the reading comprehension of")
19:48 frettled juerd: mm.  It took a while before my company could expand from having two lines to three to four.  Also, digging ditches in Oslo is expensive, around EUR 1200/m.
19:49 juerd It's a bit cheaper here, but we're on an island. Crossing water is not that cheap.
19:50 arnsholt Wolfman2000: Well, learning languages is to a certain extent more a math thing than an English thing =)
19:50 Wolfman2000 ...laptop is on low power. great. well, my time is almost up for this time of day anyway.
19:50 Wolfman2000 arnsholt: I find that hard to believe.
19:51 arnsholt Well, I might be a bit of a weirdo. But I find the systems of language (syntax, morphology and so on) to quite amenable to a somewhat "mathematical" approach
19:53 Wolfman2000 ...I think we're all slightly weirdoes technically.
19:53 Wolfman2000 I mean, we are trying to work on a new language
19:53 jan_ joined #perl6
19:53 arnsholt Heh
19:54 pnate2 language learning is logical
19:54 pnate2 language acquisition is unconscious and intuitive
19:55 frettled juerd: I hope that you get your link back quickly!
19:55 pnate2 so says krashen anyway
19:55 arnsholt pnate2: Very well put
19:55 pnate2 i think there's a place for both
19:55 pnate2 but it depends on what you are trying to do with it
19:56 arnsholt Absolutely, you definitely need both. But I feel that the common perception of language places too much emphasis on the intuitive bit
19:56 arnsholt So I try to remedy that situation whenever I can =)
19:56 Wolfman2000 alright, I'm out for now. I should be back before 8 PM EST
19:57 frettled arnsholt: by being counter-intuitive?
19:59 pnate2 i have actually experienced the opposite
19:59 arnsholt frettled: I suppose it might be a bit counter-intuitive. But that doesn't mean it's false =)
19:59 pnate2 but that's probably because i've spent too much time in university
19:59 pnate2 with students whose goals are very practical
19:59 diakopter moritz_: 'In that cases' -> 'In those cases' or 'In that case'
20:00 pnate2 the application of the logic is beyond them
20:00 diakopter moritz_: 'often takes time find' -> 'often takes time to find'
20:00 frettled What's seemingly intuitive often isn't.
20:00 arnsholt pnate2: Who is this Krashen person, BTW? Sounds like someone I should learn about
20:00 pnate2 american second language instruction guy
20:00 pnate2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Krashen
20:01 pnate2 very pragmatic
20:01 moritz_ diakopter: thanks, fixed
20:02 pnate2 basically he says that competence in a second language can only be acquired, not learned, and language use is too complex for the conscious mind to handle
20:02 pnate2 which i think is a little defeatist but probably true at the present time
20:03 pnate2 i think a lot of people don't like perl 5 because it's hard to learn
20:03 pnate2 but i've acquired it just fine
20:03 pnate2 and if you read some of larry wall's stuff he talks about that too
20:03 arnsholt pnate2: That looks very interesting. Thanks
20:03 arnsholt But it'll have to wait 'till I manage to finish Women, Fire and Dangerous Things, which I just started
20:04 pnate2 haha i was just in a discussion the other day where that was mentioned
20:04 pnate2 haven't read it myself
20:04 arnsholt I've only read the first 30 pages or so yet. But it looks promising
20:05 dalek joined #perl6
20:05 diakopter dalek: wb
20:06 diakopter dalek: you so speedy
20:06 arnsholt pnate2: From your summary of what he says, it sounds like I agree. Some parts of language have to be learned, but you also need those unconscious leaps of imagination to grasp some other things
20:07 arnsholt It's an interesting perspective on Perl 5 as well
20:07 pnate2 the argument basically centers on the fact that no one understands how human language works
20:07 pnate2 and so the point of language acquisition (e.g., teaching someone spanish) is not to understand how spanish works but to learn to speak and understand spanish
20:08 pnate2 of course learning how spanish works is also a worthy goal
20:08 pmichaud joined #perl6
20:08 pnate2 but it's not one anyone should be pretending to teach
20:08 hatsefla1s joined #perl6
20:08 Juerd joined #perl6
20:08 jnthn joined #perl6
20:09 arnsholt Yeah. Unfortunately some parts of language acquisition (I hate spelling that word) are really, really hard to do without immersion in the language's culture
20:09 pnate2 computers are way better than people for that reason
20:09 pnate2 you can always take it apart
20:09 pugs_svn joined #perl6
20:09 frettled I think that the mechanisms for learning are fascinating.
20:10 Infinoid_ joined #perl6
20:10 pnate2 yeah, i'm not sure anyone really has a very good grasp on what goes on in the human mind at the moment
20:10 arnsholt Yeah. But then again the sheer complexity of human systems does make them such a tempting intellectual target =)
20:10 frettled Nevermind specifics like language, maths, topology, and whatnot - learning learning, that's what's really cool :)
20:10 pnate2 certainly analogies to computers are not very well done
20:10 frettled especially given how poorly people understand computers
20:10 pnate2 hahaha
20:11 frettled One of the erroneous paradigms I think has been particularly frustrating and entertaining is one that has changed with time:
20:12 frettled - Computers can only do one thing at a time, just like the human brain.  (I.e.: computer as an analogy to the brain)
20:12 frettled that one transformed into:
20:12 frettled - The human brain can only do one thing at a time, just like computers.
20:13 juerd_ joined #perl6
20:13 diakopter I recommend imagining several impossible things before breakfast.
20:13 frettled So when a snotty kid (e.g. me) points out that the computer _does_ do several things at a time, and that apparently my brain does, too, the person with the analogy recurses into an infinite loop of circular logic.
20:13 arnsholt Kim Stanley Robinson makes a good point in one of his Mars books. In the age of steam, the mind was compared to a steam machine. In the age of computers we compare it to a computer. Always the most complicated machine we possess =)
20:14 frettled yup
20:17 frettled Or, as a friend of mine would say, «bah, humans!»
20:18 PerlJam joined #perl6
20:47 TimToady the mind is like the Internet...
20:49 jnthn Full of spam and lolcats?
20:49 frettled The mind is like TimToady.
20:50 TimToady I knew that...
20:53 [1]jaffa8 joined #perl6
21:01 colomon TimToady: If you've got a sec, I've been thinking about uniq again.
21:03 TimToady and if I don't, you haven't? :)
21:04 colomon :)
21:06 colomon The current O(N^2) non-hash implementation we have takes an optional parameter which is an equalitry test.
21:06 colomon Seems like something like that would be nice for the hypothetical much-improved hash version.
21:06 moritz_ is uniq() even specced?
21:06 colomon Maybe takes a hashing function, or something like that?
21:07 colomon moritz_: It wasn't last time I checked.
21:07 colomon I'm trying to slowly but surely make the spec happen.  :)
21:07 zaphar_ps joined #perl6
21:07 moritz_ an unary transformation function much like sort() takes would be kinda useful
21:08 * colomon is pretty sure "equalitry" isn't actually a word...
21:11 colomon moritz_: going to have to check the specs on that...
21:11 moritz_ rakudo: say <5 3 4 1 2>.sort: -*
21:12 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«54321␤»
21:13 TimToady I'd say there's probably a generic Set role that may be instantiated with various notions of identity
21:13 colomon woah.  it does an automatic Schwartzian transform.
21:13 stephenlb joined #perl6
21:14 colomon TimToady: would you then use Set internally in uniq instead of a hash?
21:14 TimToady probably a KeySet, since it's mutable, and not really a single set
21:14 colomon (and there's not actually a Set role for that yet, right?)
21:15 TimToady we just have hashes so far, which is what a KeySet is if you scratch it
21:16 TimToady but we don't have object hashes yet
21:16 TimToady which would default to === rather than eqv semantics
21:17 colomon TimToady: right, we discussed the object hashes thing WRT uniq the other day.
21:18 colomon Huh.  We don't have implementations for most of these container types yet, do we?
21:19 colomon (In rakudo, I mean.)
21:19 TimToady nope, not yet
21:19 colomon Seems like an interesting opportunity for someone with time on his hands.  (Not really me at the moment.)
21:20 TimToady it does bring up the interesting question of how to declare such an array with a user-supplied identity function, when that is not known till run time
21:20 TimToady maybe it's just a mixin
21:21 moritz_ TimToady: speaking of which... is eqv supposed to dispatch to a method?
21:22 TimToady no, it's a function
21:23 TimToady whose full name is infix:<eqv>
21:24 moritz_ I was just wondering, because some classes might want to override that
21:24 moritz_ and the visibility of an overridden eqv operator is limited
21:25 sjohnson rakudo:  my $str = "Goose";  $str ~~ /(g|G)(oo)se/; print "_$1_$2_";
21:25 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤_oo__»
21:25 moritz_ so it can easily happen that an object is passed to a routine which uses eqv, but doesn't see the overridden op
21:25 moritz_ sjohnson: they are spelled $0 and $1 in Perl 6
21:25 sjohnson moritz_: thanks... i keep forgetting :[
21:26 sjohnson rakudo:  my $str = "Goose";  $str ~~ /(g|G)(oo)se/; print "_$0_$1_";
21:26 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«_G_oo_»
21:26 colomon moritz_: Yeah, I'm still suspecting a lot of code is going to want to use "lift" by default.
21:26 moritz_ lift is ugly
21:26 sjohnson rakudo: my $str = "Goose";  if ($str ~~ /[g|G](oo)se/; print "_$1_";
21:26 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "($str ~~ /"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
21:27 moritz_ because if just one routine in the call chain forgets it, everything from there on is lost
21:27 moritz_ in other words NOT WANT
21:27 colomon rakudo: my $str = "Goose";  if ($str ~~ /[g|G](oo)se/; say $0; say $1;
21:27 jaldhar joined #perl6
21:27 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "($str ~~ /"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
21:28 colomon moritz_: I'm very much with you on that...
21:28 moritz_ sjohnson: imbalanced (
21:28 sjohnson TimToady:  will the [g|G] act as (g|G) in p5, except that it won't write to a $[number] variable?
21:28 colomon rakudo: my $str = "Goose"; if $str ~~ /[g|G](oo)se/ { say $0; say $1; }
21:28 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«oo␤Use of uninitialized value␤␤»
21:28 sjohnson maybe i miss understood one of your suggestions
21:28 moritz_ it's the same as (?:g|G) in Perl 5
21:28 moritz_ so "yes"
21:30 sjohnson moritz_: at what point, does the [] not stuff the match inside into a $0.. $1.. etc
21:30 moritz_ [] is non-capturiing and grouping.
21:30 sjohnson oh i c
21:30 sjohnson rakudo: my $str = "Goose"; if $str ~~ /[g|G](oo)se/ { say $0; }
21:31 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«oo␤»
21:31 moritz_ as you described it, if I understood you correctly
21:31 sjohnson it was just colomons $1 that did not get stored which produced the perfect error
21:31 sjohnson but i mistook it as not doing what i hoped it would do
21:31 * sjohnson dances
21:31 sjohnson thanks colomon and moritz_
21:32 colomon you're welcome.
21:33 colomon moritz_: I would definitely love to see operators treated as first-class citizens next to class methods (ie no need for lift).  But my impression last time I brought this up was that it was a hopeless cause?
21:34 moritz_ colomon: they are first-class, but in a different first class than methods ;-)
21:34 moritz_ joining those two separate first classes was considered bad
21:34 * colomon 's dad would start quoting Animal Farm at this point.
21:34 moritz_ no need ;-)
21:35 moritz_ in some ways we "fix" this by having ops re-dispatch to methods
21:35 TimToady I don't see a general solution, but in this specific case, we're talking about operators for which both arguments must be the same type
21:35 moritz_ prefix:<~> to .Str, infix:<~~> to ACCEPTS etc.
21:36 colomon Is prefix:<~> just a dispatch to .Str?  I thought there was a difference there (like prefix:<+> and .Num).
21:36 TimToady so single dispatch might make more sense, if we can guarantee that people don't start writing eqv methods that allow differing types, in which case we're reallhy back to needing multisubs
21:37 moritz_ we could have sub infix:<eqv>($a, $b) { $a.WHAT === $b.WHAT ?? $a.eqv($b) !! False }
21:37 moritz_ or so
21:38 moritz_ but I still don't see a general solution
21:39 TimToady well, other than the usual solution of making all multisubs global, which has its own problems
21:39 colomon I guess I still don't understand the problem with having operators dispatch like methods?
21:40 moritz_ colomon: if you'd want to define an infix:<+>(undef, YourType) you'd have to monkey-patch Object
21:40 moritz_ if it were dispached as method on the first argument
21:40 TimToady anyway, the single dispatch eqv semantics would be more like $a.WHAT.eqv($a,$b)
21:41 spinclad std: sub foo(Num @array) { say @array.perl }; foo(my Num @ = (1, 2, 3))
21:41 p6eval std 28993: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 119m␤»
21:41 spinclad rakudo: sub foo(Num @array) { say @array.perl }; foo(my Num @ = (1, 2, 3))
21:41 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Malformed declaration at line 2, near "Num @ = (1"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
21:42 spinclad rakudo: sub foo(Num $item) { say $item.perl }; foo(my Num $ = (1, 2, 3))
21:42 TimToady arguably, std should not have accepted that
21:42 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Malformed declaration at line 2, near "Num $ = (1"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
21:42 spinclad rakudo: sub foo(Num $item) { say $item.perl }; foo(my Num $x = (1, 2, 3))
21:42 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Assignment type check failed; expected Num, but got Array␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
21:42 spinclad rakudo: sub foo(Num $item) { say $item.perl }; foo(my Num $x = 1)
21:42 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«1␤»
21:42 spinclad rakudo: sub foo(Num @array) { say @array.perl }; foo(my Num @s = (1, 2, 3))
21:43 TimToady std: foo(@foo = 1,2,3)
21:43 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: TIMED_OUT
21:43 p6eval std 28993: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤  Variable @foo is not predeclared at /tmp/ycMO3bkoyV line 1:␤------> [32mfoo(@foo[33m⏏[31m = 1,2,3)[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤       foo used at line 1␤ok 00:02 107m␤»
21:44 TimToady std: sub foo() {...}; my @foo; foo(@foo X @foo)
21:44 p6eval std 28993: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unable to parse argument list; couldn't find final ')' at /tmp/Y4yKJcwSGP line 1:␤------> [32msub foo() {...}; my @foo; foo(@foo X[33m⏏[31m @foo)[0m␤    expecting an infix operator with precedence tighter than list infix␤FAILED 00:02 113m␤»
21:44 sjohnson Q: in p6, is there any real difference, if you code things like,  1)  join(/ /, @stuff)   2) join / /, @stuff,   3) join (/ /, @stuff);
21:44 TimToady std: sub foo() {...}; my @foo; foo(@foo = @foo)
21:44 p6eval std 28993: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 110m␤»
21:45 TimToady arguably that shouldn't allow list assignment there
21:45 TimToady 3 is wrong
21:46 sjohnson TimToady: is it because of the space after "join"?
21:46 TimToady well, that plus the parens
21:47 TimToady which makes a single argument to the join listop
21:47 sjohnson is this any different than p5?  my vim perl5 syntax checker makes different colors for these, and i am not sure which one is the best
21:48 sjohnson i suppose join / / => @stuff;   might be the best?
21:48 TimToady it's very different from P5, where the space didn't matter, only the parens
21:48 TimToady sjohnson: that won't work either
21:48 spinclad rakudo: sub foo(Num $item) { say $item.perl }; foo(my Num $x = '1')
21:48 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Assignment type check failed; expected Num, but got Str␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
21:48 TimToady => is not a synonym for , in p6
21:48 spinclad my Num $x = '1'
21:49 spinclad rakudo: my Num $x = '1'
21:49 p6eval rakudo 5e05b8: OUTPUT«Assignment type check failed; expected Num, but got Str␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
21:49 moritz_ sjohnson: why would you want to join by a regex
21:49 moritz_ ?
21:49 TimToady that too
21:49 spinclad well, there goes my idea: doesn't coerce
21:49 sjohnson moritz_: sorry, i'm used to splitting by regex's
21:49 sjohnson and my brain just thought of join instead of split :(
21:50 * sjohnson stabs brain
21:50 * spinclad gently takes icepick away
21:51 spinclad hugme: hug sjohnson
21:51 spinclad ENOFEATHER
21:51 * moritz_ hugs sjohnson
21:51 sjohnson :)
21:51 * TimToady hugs *, but * does not reciprocate
21:51 hugme joined #perl6
21:52 moritz_ akshually feather is back, but hugme is too stupid to autorejoin
21:52 sjohnson i think perl is so good because it is the closest (or only) language i have ever found that can be considered "right brain programming"
21:53 TimToady My right brain is not always in my right mind...
21:53 masak moritz_++ # http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/pe​rl-6/lost-in-wonderland.html
21:54 moritz_ and diakopter++ for fixing three typos/grammeros in the that blog entry ;-)
21:55 brunov joined #perl6
21:55 TimToady sjohnson: and if you think you want split / /, you probably want .words
21:55 diakopter moritz_: grammaros even!
21:56 diakopter ba-dum-ching
21:56 sjohnson TimToady: words == /\s+/ ?
21:56 TimToady if they're even, ?^ will cancel them out
21:57 TimToady .words = .comb(/\S+/)
21:57 sjohnson diakopter: http://members.shaw.ca/smujohnson/snd/garlaff.mp3
21:57 sjohnson TimToady: ty
21:57 sjohnson maybe i could write a p6 function help bot
21:57 sjohnson !help comb
21:58 fax joined #perl6
21:58 * sjohnson googles
21:59 hugme joined #perl6
21:59 moritz_ hugme now has autorejoin
21:59 sjohnson hugme: hug everyone
21:59 * hugme hugs everyone
22:00 diakopter hugme: hug herself
22:00 * hugme hugs herself
22:01 TimToady hugme: hug everyone who deserves it
22:01 * hugme hugs everyone who deserves it
22:01 cotto_work joined #perl6
22:02 diakopter hugme: hug himself
22:02 * hugme hugs himself and blushes
22:02 diakopter oo
22:03 * TimToady feels a geezer nap coming on
22:03 diakopter hugme: hug ourselves
22:03 * hugme hugs ourselves
22:03 TimToady zzz &
22:03 sjohnson naps are great
22:08 Whiteknight joined #perl6
22:21 FullMetalHarlot joined #perl6
22:21 tak11 joined #perl6
22:26 dukelet0 joined #perl6
22:26 dukelet0 howdy! just a heads up: the machine that updates the parrot github mirror died and I am currently attempting to get stuff set back up. so it might not get updated until later today
22:30 kidd` joined #perl6
22:31 sjohnson hi
22:49 synth joined #perl6
22:58 zaslon lolmasakhazblogged! masak++ 'November 5 2009 -- hanging in there': http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/39847?from=rss
23:00 * masak backlogs
23:00 masak I agree that the Num @array thing is a bit of a wtf.
23:04 * jnthn waves at masak
23:04 masak jnthn: oh hai there!
23:06 * jnthn is getting more bits back in place in Rakudo * :-)
23:07 jnthn erm
23:07 jnthn in ng
23:07 jnthn gah
23:07 jnthn :-)
23:07 jnthn EBRANENOTWORKING
23:07 jnthn masak: Did you figure out the hotel thingy in Riga yet?
23:09 jnthn masak: I was just looking
23:09 jnthn They haz an offer.
23:10 jnthn But I can't quite figure out their math. :-)
23:10 masak jnthn: no, not yet. but I'm ready when you are.
23:10 jnthn Erm, because I seem to be able to select a 3 night special deal. Even though...Ineed 4 nights. :-/
23:11 masak thu, fri, sat, sun.
23:11 jnthn Anyway, I'm looking at the website and it says like "Konventa hotel offers special price for attendees of Baltic Perl Workshop: 50 € per night (single or double room)"
23:11 masak that's us.
23:12 jnthn However even putting the slight wtf special offer thingy aside, when I just go into the system to book anyway, it's like 50 EUR a night for a single room...
23:12 masak :)
23:12 masak so the special price is not so special after all?
23:13 jnthn Appears not.
23:13 jnthn Site is http://www.konventa.lv/ and all in English btw
23:13 jnthn I'm still a tad perplexed by the 3 night offer for a 4 night stay. ;-)
23:14 diakopter does Andrew Shitov visit #perl6 ..? anyone know?
23:14 jnthn Not afaik - you looking for him?
23:14 jnthn I have an email addy if you're missing that.
23:15 masak diakopter: I can't remember if I've ever seen him here. so he's not a regular, anyway.
23:16 masak jnthn: I haven't found the BPW wording yet. but is it conceivable that the 3-night special offer does not concern us BPW goers?
23:16 jnthn Oh, I think that's some offer the hotel has on.
23:16 jnthn I don't think it's anything to do with BPW.
23:16 jnthn I just think they may haz a bug in their site. ;-)
23:17 masak so you're booking now?
23:17 jnthn Might do, since I've got it in mind.
23:17 masak I might as well too.
23:17 jnthn Otherwise I'll only forget and procrastinate it until a few days before or something.
23:18 masak nod.
23:18 jnthn oh heh
23:18 jnthn if we book a suite there's not only free wifi, but the room as the internet in it.
23:18 masak \o/
23:18 jnthn The whole intertubes! \o/
23:18 masak I've always wanted that room!
23:19 cotto_work your hotels are way better than the ones in the states.  I never get a room with the Internet in it.
23:20 masak jnthn: a bit into the booking process, I get an option of four nights for 111 EUR.
23:20 masak apparently, that's the "Special Autumn Offer".
23:20 jnthn masak: Well, that's the fial.
23:21 jnthn Yes, but read the details of the offer. ;_)
23:21 masak by my math, that's a lot better than 50 EUR a night.
23:21 masak "Book 3 night stay in our cosy hotel, but pay only for 2 and choose a tempting meal from Month’s Special Menu!"
23:21 jnthn Yes but
23:21 masak oh wtf.
23:21 diakopter someone said andrew shitov was demoing a new Perl 6 compiler
23:21 jnthn Thu 19/11 to Mon 23/11, 4 nights
23:21 jnthn diakopter: oh, I've seen that
23:21 diakopter what is it
23:21 masak jnthn: I'm thinking I should call them up and sort this out.
23:22 masak or email them.
23:22 diakopter someone speaks euros?
23:22 jnthn masak: Yeah
23:22 masak reservation@konventa.lv
23:22 * masak emails them
23:22 jnthn masak: OK, cool - let me know the outcome. :-)
23:22 jnthn masak++
23:23 masak diakopter: oui, ich speak Euros, porquoi sie ask?
23:23 jnthn diakopter: It's basically a proof that if you implement a tiny subset of Perl 6, you can make it 10,000 times faster than Rakudo. :-)
23:23 jnthn diakopter: Basically by writing a Perl 6 to C++ translator.
23:24 diakopter oh
23:25 jnthn I mean, it's not surprising you're fast if you translate my $x = $y + $z to having x, y and z be C++-level variables and the code is the C++ + operator. :-)
23:25 jnthn I rather guess that once lexical scopes, multi-dispatch and overloading land in it, it won't be 10,000 times faster.
23:25 jnthn :-)
23:26 jnthn IMO, I think it's more a toy than a serious Perl 6 implementation effort.
23:27 diakopter wait, so, it requires g++ too?
23:27 diakopter er something
23:28 jnthn I guess so.
23:28 jnthn Oh, I guess eval gets fun too. ;-)
23:29 jnthn I guess you can compile a dyanmic library and then dlopen it...
23:29 jnthn Anyway, IMO, interesting in that it maybe gives an idea of the bounds to which Perl 6 *could* be optimized.
23:30 diakopter well
23:30 jnthn But not interesting in terms of something that could grow to really support Perl 6.
23:30 colomon I wouldn't scoff too much, if a full-featured Perl 6 to C++ translator existed, I'd probably use it for something things.
23:30 diakopter what was the microbenchmark exactly
23:30 colomon (but I expect it would be a nightmare to write, of course.)
23:31 jnthn colomon: I'm not scoffing, I'm just pointing out that this approach probably is going to run into issues fairly fast.
23:31 jnthn diakopter: I forget exactly, there was a couple I think. Mostly loops and integer operations though.
23:34 masak jnthn: there, email sent. you got a blind carbon copy.
23:34 jnthn masak: Thanks very much!
23:34 masak that was a gun mail to write. :)
23:34 masak looking forward to the reply (which I will forward).
23:35 jnthn Probably better English than if I'd written in too. :-)
23:35 masak oh, I don't know about that.
23:35 jnthn "oh hai i can haz rezervashun?"
23:35 jnthn :-)
23:36 jnthn masak: Mail looks fine.
23:36 masak as a Swede, I suffer from the wide-spread delusion that I know English.
23:36 jnthn :-)
23:36 jnthn Strange that.
23:36 masak jnthn: good.
23:36 masak now, time for sleep.
23:36 jnthn I can't imagine why anybody would think you know English. ;-)
23:36 * masak waves
23:36 jnthn night o/
23:36 arnsholt masak: The fact that you realize that Scandinavians don't have a god-given gift at English means that you're ahead of the game
23:36 arnsholt Way ahead =)
23:37 masak arnsholt: :)
23:37 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
23:43 tak11 joined #perl6
23:43 xabbu42 joined #perl6

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo