Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-11-10

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:07 pugs_svn r29042 | lwall++ | [STD_P5] much more de-6-ization of the quasi-p5 grammar
00:22 pmichaud jnthn: great work today, thanks for everything
00:23 pmichaud jnthn: I hope to open lots of doors for us tonight :)
00:24 jnthn pmichaud: Great. Having use done properly will be a big step forward. :-)
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01:33 diakopter pmurias: yes
01:34 Juerd I don't know why, but police here started stopping people at random, asking for driving license and registration papers.
01:34 Juerd It started a few weeks ago, and I've been stopped three times already.
01:35 Juerd s/'ve been/was/? English is hard.
01:35 diakopter either
01:35 diakopter have been is more proper
01:35 Juerd They just glance over the paperwork, wish you a good night, and drive off again.
01:36 diakopter have been - implies it could happen again, which fits better with '... already'
01:36 Juerd They're not checking it with databases, like they normally do (did).
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01:37 Juerd Hm, I'm not used to verb forms implying anything about the future. :|
01:37 Juerd Thanks. I should look this up.
01:39 diakopter to clarify, it doesn't necessarily imply that, it just leaves the door open for that connotation somewhat more than 'was stopped'.  I think.
01:40 Juerd Still an interesting part of the language that is entirely new to me
01:41 Juerd Er, that's ambiguous. English isn't entirely new to me :)
01:41 diakopter 'I had been stopped 3 times' denotes that you don't expect to be stopped again (they're not stopping folks anymore, or you're not driving past them anymore)
01:41 diakopter (and isn't confused by '... already')
01:42 Juerd Technically, I haven't even been stopped this time. They just harrassed me while I had already parked my car, and was just cleaning the passenger seat a little.
01:42 Juerd s/while/after/  # argh :)
01:42 diakopter there, it's "I wasn't even stopped this time"
01:43 Juerd Why is that?
01:43 diakopter since the [singular/atomic] event is completed ("perfect")
01:44 Juerd I'm beginning to see a pattern
01:44 Juerd Thanks ]
01:44 Juerd s/\]//
01:44 diakopter :)
01:45 diakopter even though it's a negative event (it didn't occur), you're talking about it as if it could have occurred, so in that theoretical past timeline, it did occur (and was completed)
01:46 Juerd I recognised the term perfect from latin, and that reminds me that I forgot almost everything I've ever learned about latin...
01:46 * diakopter as well (4 """years""")
01:47 Juerd perfectum, imperfectum, plusquamperfectum, ...
01:47 Juerd I lost all notion of what those mean. Maybe if I read about it it'll come back to me. Let's do that tomorrow.
01:48 Juerd For now I'm wishing you a good night|* :)
01:48 * diakopter wonders if there's a 1st person singular analogue of "Let's ..." "Let me .." except contracted.
01:48 diakopter 'nite
01:48 diakopter oh yeah.  "Lemme."
01:48 Juerd Yes, it is: I'll do that tomorrow. :)
01:49 pugs_svn r29043 | lwall++ | [t/spec] 3 instances of "Too late for semicolon form"
01:50 Juerd Welterusten :)
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02:12 dalek book: 43015de | chromatic++ | src/basics.pod:
02:12 dalek book: Minor edits to Basics chapter:
02:12 dalek book:     - added =begin/=end programlisting tags
02:12 dalek book:     - rephrased some prose for clarity
02:12 dalek book:     - added X<> tags for indexing
02:12 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/43015deadd20808b41e864d362303be15bc188df
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02:18 diakopter Wolfman2000: hiya
02:18 Wolfman2000 diakopter: Evening. Don't think your @ stayed upon my leaving for college BTW.
02:18 diakopter there you go
02:18 Wolfman2000 Wasn't sure if it was meant to be permament or not.
02:18 Wolfman2000 diakopter++: Thanks.
02:19 Wolfman2000 ...may as well test to be sure.
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02:19 diakopter nah; it's just so people don't feel left out...
02:19 Wolfman2000 *shrugs* don't worry about it
02:19 diakopter also to deter griefers
02:19 Wolfman2000 where's that dictionary bot? I don't recall what a griefer is either.
02:20 diakopter "oh look, 30 operators?  I'll find another channel to [make] grieve."
02:20 TimToady it's not any kind of a club, just people who we know and who tend to stay connected 24/7
02:20 Wolfman2000 24/7? Definitely not me. I use my laptop for just about everything.
02:21 TimToady well, so do I
02:21 TimToady but I ssh to a machine with screen and irssi :)
02:22 TimToady and this machine has been up for 82 days now
02:22 TimToady decommuting &
02:22 Wolfman2000 TimToady: I don't have such a machine that can be close to guaranteed to stay up...that I can keep bandwidth wasting.
02:22 Wolfman2000 My Slicehost box is out, I can't use my own box, and I can't waste Juerd's bandwidth on Feather.
02:23 diakopter Wolfman2000: a zillion folks use screen+irssi on feather
02:23 diakopter well, a zillion minus 1
02:24 Wolfman2000 ...right, that 1 is me
02:24 Wolfman2000 I need to learn a few more things about screen...and then somehow control a text based IRC client without trouble. THAT'S going to be the fun one.
02:25 diakopter one trick is to make it use UTF-8
02:25 Wolfman2000 diakopter: I'll want to do that anyway.
02:26 diakopter I mean, it can be tricky to do that.
02:28 Wolfman2000 In other news...I've been given a deadline for the Perl 6 Pastebin website I've been working on with others in here.
02:28 Wolfman2000 NC State is hosting an alumni function in my home town on December 8th. I have to RSVP by the 3rd. This will be a BIG boost to my resume if I get it completed by then.
02:31 Wolfman2000 Once I take care of some homework, I have to get cracking to hopefully get SOMETHING up before the week of Thanksgiving.
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03:41 JimmyZ A new bug?
03:41 JimmyZ raudo: (27-13.2-13.2-0.6).say;
03:41 JimmyZ rakudo: (27-13.2-13.2-0.6).say;
03:41 p6eval rakudo 929998: 1.4432899320127e-15␤
03:42 JimmyZ rakudo: Int(27-13.2-13.2-0.6).say;
03:42 p6eval rakudo 929998: invoke() not implemented in class 'Integer'␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
03:42 JimmyZ rakudo: (Int)(27-13.2-13.2-0.6).say;
03:42 p6eval rakudo 929998: invoke() not implemented in class 'Integer'␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
03:43 diakopter JimmyZ: it's the floating point value not rounding to 0...
03:43 diakopter oh
03:43 JimmyZ diakopter: But it's a really bug.
03:43 diakopter yeah
03:43 diakopter I mean
03:43 diakopter not necessarily
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03:44 JimmyZ So does the python...
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03:48 arnsholt JimmyZ: That's just the way life is when you're using floating point numbers
03:48 arnsholt A lot of common decimal numbers, like 0.1 IIRC, cannot be represented in binary with a finite number of bits
03:48 arnsholt So you get round-off errors like that
03:49 arnsholt If you really, really need absolute precision you have to implement your own fixed-point class
03:50 arnsholt (The most common case for that is money, where rounding errors can be an absolute no-no)
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03:53 JimmyZ arnsholt: I see, thanks. though it is a *big* bug.
03:54 JimmyZ rakudo: (1/3*3).say;
03:54 p6eval rakudo 929998: 1␤
03:54 arnsholt It can be a problem, yes. But it's not really a problem. It really is impossible (as in, provably so) to make it work like you want to
03:55 arnsholt Rationals OTOH, will do what you want, as you just found out =)
03:55 arnsholt Er, "it's not really a bug"
03:55 arnsholt Rather than "it's not really a problem"
03:59 JimmyZ rakudo: ( (1/3) * 3 ).say;
03:59 p6eval rakudo 929998: 1␤
04:00 JimmyZ rakudo: print (1/3)*3
04:00 p6eval rakudo 929998: 1
04:01 JimmyZ oh, perl 5 outputs 0.333333333333333
04:07 arnsholt Yeah, Perl 5 doesn't have Rationals built-int
04:07 arnsholt Built-in, even
04:07 arnsholt But there is a CPAN module that adds it I think
04:08 PerlJam What's the supposed bug?
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04:10 Wolfman2000 argh...homework took too long, plus dad made me watch some of the American football game
04:17 diakopter nqp: say(hihi)
04:17 p6eval nqp: Null PMC access in get_string()␤current instr.: 'print' pc 59901 (gen/nqp-actions.pir:0)␤
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04:18 diakopter nqp: hi; say(3)
04:18 p6eval nqp: 3␤
04:18 diakopter nqp: hi; say(333)
04:18 p6eval nqp: 333␤
04:18 diakopter weird
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04:21 pmichaud nqp has difficulties with barewords at times
04:21 pmichaud it looks at "hihi" as being a package lookup
04:21 diakopter ok
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06:25 Wolf2k_Pinged eternaleye: I finally have...a pinged nick. Hang on.
06:26 Wolfman2000 eternaleye: Trying this again. I finally have a better grasp on DB access through Catalyst and DBIC. Screenshot coming soon.
06:28 Wolfman2000 eternaleye: http://i38.tinypic.com/1zoypfb.png
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06:51 Wolfman2000 off to bed...I have a better idea on things at least.
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07:20 Su-Shee good morning.
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07:53 moritz_ moin
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08:57 Juerd Wolfman2000: IRC does not waste bandwidth :)
08:57 Juerd Wolfman2000: It costs next to nothing.
08:58 Juerd Wolfman2000: Do a "ps axu | grep irssi | grep -vi screen" on feather :)
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10:24 masak oh hai, #perl6.
10:25 moritz_ good morning masak, good noon #perl6 :-)
10:25 masak :P
10:36 jnthn morning
10:36 masak lolitsjnthn
10:37 jnthn yayitsmasak
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10:41 dalek book: 3d5943c | moritz++ | src/basics.pod:
10:41 dalek book: [basics] fix two POD errors
10:41 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/3d5943c4c2a3109da6daf9aa1696e1cb5661f321
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10:50 * mberends is teaching Perl 5 using Padre :-)
10:50 jnthn :)
10:53 dalek book: c4a1247 | moritz++ | src/basics.pod:
10:53 dalek book: [basics] use single quotes consitently; typo
10:53 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/c4a12477f6db4bc4dc7353acab82724ac00cff1e
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11:09 sjohnson hi masak
11:09 masak Juerd: there's a trick to remembering the meaning of 'perfect'/'imperfect'/'plusquamperfect'.
11:09 masak sjohnson: hi there! nice to see you.
11:09 sjohnson you too
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11:21 Juerd masak: Do you want to share that trick?
11:27 Su-Shee Juerd: perfect as in "perfectly ended past", imperfect as in "not perfectly ended yet" and plusquamperfect "even more (plus) in the past than perfect" :)
11:28 Juerd Well, that I know, but those don't come natural to me.
11:28 Juerd Dutch doesn't match those semantics :|
11:29 Su-Shee contemporary spoken german doesn't as well. noone really uses plusquamperfect for example.
11:30 Su-Shee (or future II for that matter)
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11:56 * Woodi like Year 1984 language simplification proposal: good, 1+good, 2+good, without-good, 1+without-good, 2+without-good; 3+ is forbiden
12:00 jnthn That's 10+without-good
12:00 jnthn OH NOES I did a forbidden!
12:01 jnthn If the attempt was to restrict the things people could think, using numbers is kinda a fail. It's far too easy to figure out what the next strongest possibility is. :-)
12:03 Woodi THEY try to make ppls do not thing and simplification of language was way to do it. so, easy or not ppls should do not think
12:05 Woodi was realy clever vision of future in that book :>
12:06 Woodi btw. anyone thinked about writing starship hardvare control library ?
12:06 Woodi s/hv/hw/g
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12:08 Woodi you know, a2d2 was using some interface in that movies...
12:08 Woodi StarTreak, StarGate...
12:08 Woodi even Section 1 :)
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12:27 masak Juerd: learning what they mean. :) so, 'perfect' means 'finished', as in 'I have Xed'. 'imperfect' means 'unfinished', as in 'I was Xing'. note how that describes a still ongoing action. 'plu(squam)perfect' means 'more than finished', i.e. one step removed from the perfect form, i.e. 'I had Xed'.
12:27 masak ah, and Su-Shee++ said the same, basically.
12:29 masak Woodi: ISTR it was 'good', 'plusgood', 'doubleplusgood', 'ungood', 'plusungood' and 'doubleplusungood'.
12:29 masak Woodi: incidentally, that's basically a 1-to-1 mapping of how Esperanto does it. :)
12:30 jnthn Great. Now I want to learn Esperanto so I can tell people stuff was "trippleplusungood" :-)
12:31 masak :)
12:31 jnthn masak: Is it generative like that though?
12:31 jnthn Or not so much?
12:31 masak jnthn: oh, the generative part is very crucial. but it works differently.
12:31 jnthn Ah, OK. :-)
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12:33 masak jnthn: 'tre' and -eg- marks intensification. mal- marks opposites. so you have (for the above examples) 'bone', 'tre bone', 'bonege', 'malbone', 'tre malbone', 'malbonege'.
12:34 jnthn Ah, so it's not quite using numbers?
12:34 masak no.
12:34 jnthn Ah, OK. :-)
12:34 jnthn Cool.
12:34 jnthn "mal" and "bon" and "tre" all look somewhat like near-takings from various Romance languages.
12:35 masak they are.
12:35 masak though people tend to trip up on 'mal', thinking it has something to do with evil.
12:35 masak or unhealth.
12:35 jnthn Guess that maybe makes it easier for a certain group of people to learn.
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12:36 jnthn Oh yes, I think mal = ill in Spanish. Or something like that.
12:36 jnthn The thing that came to mind more immediately was malhereusement (sp?) in French.
12:36 masak aye.
12:38 masak I've been writing a bit of Perl 5 in the past few days.
12:38 masak two things have started tripping me up.
12:38 jnthn Oh, 'cus of differences between 5 and 6?
12:38 masak 1. sigils. when I don't think about it, I write the sigils unchanged, not by-result.
12:39 masak 2. commas after blocks in map/grep/sort.
12:39 jnthn Curious. I have other trip-ups, but usually not those ones.
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12:39 masak aye, it's a bit strange. :)
12:39 masak all the other things I can handle.
12:40 jnthn I've typed . instead of -> more than once.
12:40 moritz_ masak: I usually catch the sigils while writing, butcommas after map/grep/sort blocks is something I often tripped over
12:40 jnthn I would mention that I sometimes miss off the semi when doing eval { ... } <newlne>
12:40 jnthn But I don't think that's Perl 6's fault.
12:40 * moritz_ too
12:41 jnthn I managed that one before I was writing Perl 6 too.
12:41 moritz_ right, that's an inconsistency in Perl 5
12:42 jnthn The other thing that sneaked into my Perl 5 in the last week was an attempt to use prefix:<+>. :-)
12:43 masak you can. :)
12:43 masak but it probably won't do much.
12:43 moritz_ yes, it's a noop
12:43 moritz_ it just parses differently
12:43 jnthn :-)
12:43 moritz_ print (localtime)[2]; # boom!
12:43 masak as for the semicolons-after-closures, I make a point of always putting them in. even when the closing brace is last-on-the-line.
12:44 moritz_ masak: even after if ($stuff) { }; ?
12:44 masak moritz_: er. no. but that's a special form. :)
12:44 moritz_ it's a block
12:44 moritz_ every block is a closure
12:44 masak yes.
12:45 masak but 'if' is parsed as a special statement.
12:46 masak I just got the urge to tell #perl that we've decided to change the name of Perl 6 to something else. :P
12:48 masak 'Perlcaml Prime', perhaps.
12:48 moritz_ perl-ng :-)
12:48 masak or just 'ng', perhaps.
12:49 moritz_ no, people would confuse that with the rakudo branch :-)
12:49 masak better written 'ŋ' :)
12:49 moritz_ and ng.org is already taken => no go
12:49 masak moritz_: I don't think I can have 'perl' in the name, since part of their criticism is that Perl 6 isn't Perl.
12:50 masak moritz_: but I wouldn't mind confirming their predjudices about us.
12:50 huf call it p6rl.
12:50 pmichaud good morning, perl6
12:50 masak Perl 6 being an 'academic' language, for example.
12:50 masak pmichaud: morning.
12:50 moritz_ well, I don't really mind their criticism
12:50 masak huf: but we already are.
12:50 huf problem solved then ;)
12:51 masak moritz_: I don't mind it when it's directed at us. I mind it when it afflicts innocents.
12:51 jnthn hi pmichaud
12:51 moritz_ we should really take care that newcomers don't get between our frontiers
12:52 masak nod.
12:52 jnthn I'm guessing the use implementation didn't quite make it last night?
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12:52 Su-Shee I would very much mind perl6 being an academic language.
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12:52 masak Su-Shee: sure. that's just their (#perl's) way of rationalizing their disinterest in Perl 6.
12:53 jnthn Su-Shee: I think Perl 6 is too useful to have a shot at that. ;-)
12:53 pmichaud jnthn: no, it didn't make it again.  got really tired; think I'm fighting off a cold or something
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12:53 pmichaud anyway, I'm up for it now, so about to get started
12:53 masak Su-Shee: they don't even mean 'in academia', they mean 'experimental' or 'hypothetic'.
12:53 jnthn pmichaud: Eww. It's the time of year for that.
12:53 moritz_ masak: maybe we should offer them a ceasefire - they stop misinforming newbies about Perl 6, and we stop misinforming newbies about Perl 5 :-)
12:53 Su-Shee masak: well, many people plainly wait until they get a feel of "it's ready".
12:54 masak moritz_: heh. :)
12:54 Su-Shee mr shee will plainly not even start to touch perl 6 until there's a working database module, for example.
12:54 masak Su-Shee: indeed. I should work a bit on the database module.
12:54 jnthn pmichaud: I've been waiting for my sort-of-almost-cold-thing to turn into a real one for a couple of weeks now...but nope.
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12:55 Su-Shee masak: "having an environment" was the reason why reddit changed from lisp to python - not the power and elegance of the language itself.
12:56 pmichaud well, I did finally get a restful night's sleep for the first time in quite a few days, so hoping that will help
12:56 pmichaud anyway, I'm going to disappear for a bit to work on use :)
12:56 jnthn Yay. :-)
13:00 masak Su-Shee: yes, it's a powerful argument. and one which is easy to understand.
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13:00 takadonet morning all
13:00 moritz_ and a lot of work to change.
13:01 masak Su-Shee: that's why I think pmichaud++ is doing the right thing with Rakudo Star -- short-circuiting the Catch 22 of apps/interest by saying "here's something that works, use it!".
13:01 moritz_ and hopefully it's also a sign that says "start developing libraries NOW"
13:02 masak let's make such a sign.
13:05 frettled «Book urgently in need of a new home»
13:06 frettled Let the sign be a 'shopped image of book with a stylized house drawn around him.
13:06 Su-Shee masak: I ran into that argument the last time I think when I tried dylan. nice language - and nothing really there. and I realized how much _all_ my projects profit from having a date module, a ssl module and so on.
13:09 masak Su-Shee: nod.
13:09 masak Su-Shee: that's why I think my Temporal rewrite is important.
13:12 Su-Shee Temporal is like DateTime?
13:13 masak Su-Shee: it's the name of the module containing DateTime, yes.
13:13 jnthn masak: I'm glad you've taken on working on that. It does matter.
13:17 takadonet I think it's time to work on BioPerl6 again
13:17 masak takadonet++
13:20 takadonet Just don't tell me boss ok? :)
13:20 masak jnthn: today is Temporal Tuesday, so I'll be giving the fork some love today.
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13:20 masak takadonet: my lips are sealed. :)
13:21 jnthn Temporal Tuesday! \o/
13:22 jnthn .oO( Web.pm Wednesday tomorrow )
13:22 masak indeed.
13:23 masak see? the scheme is so easy, I don't even need to tell you how it works. :P
13:23 Su-Shee "Webnesday"? ;)
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13:43 moritz_ thirsty thursday => beer :-) ?
13:45 jnthn Thursday *is* the day my pm group tends to meet. ;-)
13:45 jnthn Which usually does indeed mean beer. :-)
13:45 masak I could drink some juice on Thursday...
13:45 moritz_ un thursday we usually have some geek (non-perl) meeting where we order pizza
13:46 jnthn Mmm. Pizza. :-)
13:46 moritz_ s/un/on/
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13:47 moritz_ I told them about some aspects of Perl 6, like junctions and grammars
13:47 takadonet what does "Use of type object as value" error message mean?
13:47 moritz_ the junctions gave some WTFy reactions :-)
13:47 moritz_ takadonet: it means that you used a type objects as a value
13:47 jnthn takadonet: Pretty much what it says.
13:47 jnthn lol
13:47 moritz_ like my Type $x; $x + 3;
13:47 moritz_ rakudo: my Int $x; $x + 3;
13:47 p6eval rakudo 929998: Use of type object as value␤
13:48 moritz_ rakudo: my Int $x; say $x + 3;
13:48 p6eval rakudo 929998: Use of type object as value␤3␤
13:48 moritz_ note that it's a warning, not an error
13:48 jnthn takadonet: Basically, you're dealing with something like a Foo rather than an instance of Foo.
13:48 takadonet hmmm
13:48 jnthn To the degree that type objects aren't instances anyway.
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13:51 Wolfman2000 *yawn* morning. masak: I have database connections with Catalyst and DBIC working. The upcoming Pastebin website is still a go right now.
13:56 pnate2 joined #perl6
13:56 masak Wolfman2000: cool. I plan to put together a Web.pm pastebin this week.
13:56 Wolfman2000 masak: ...that means we're going to be competing then
13:56 masak Wolfman2000: competition in here is usually quite mutually beneficial.
13:57 Wolfman2000 ...in other words, you think I can learn something from you and vice~versa
13:57 Wolfman2000 ...I do wonder how you plan on a pastebin without a Perl 6 DB access method anyway
13:58 moritz_ there is one.
13:58 masak Wolfman2000: I have DB access.
13:58 masak Wolfman2000: you can have it, too. :)
13:58 payload1 joined #perl6
13:58 Wolfman2000 moritz_: ...which one?
13:58 masak see? it's already mutually beneficial. :)
13:58 masak Wolfman2000: http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/39686
13:59 Wolfman2000 ...sqlite only?
13:59 masak Wolfman2000: Tene++ just made sure mysql works with parrot.
13:59 takadonet "???" syntax is to produce a warn of that define stub/method correct?
13:59 masak Wolfman2000: still haven't plugged that into Squerl, though.
14:00 masak takadonet: correct.
14:00 moritz_ sqlite should be sufficient for a paste bin
14:00 Wolfman2000 ...yep. competition.
14:01 Wolfman2000 one pastebin with Catalyst, mysql, and a syntax highlighter for Perl 6 running on Perl 5.
14:01 Wolfman2000 The other using pure Perl 6 with Web.pm and Squerl.
14:01 masak Wolfman2000: I don't want you to get your hopes up too high. putting together a pastebin, even a small one, might be quite tough.
14:01 masak with Web.pm, I mean.
14:02 Wolfman2000 masak: I was able to make 4 other websites on my own and contribtue to others. What will make Web.pm harder to use?
14:02 masak I wonder how much of the currently felt instabilities come from HTTP::Daemon.
14:02 masak Wolfman2000: it's quite untested.
14:03 Wolfman2000 masak: ...true. Not much of Perl 6 IS tested.
14:03 masak Wolfman2000: right. and this is not really a part of Perl 6, but a lib built on top of Rakudo.
14:03 takadonet man I love rgrep :)
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14:08 payload joined #perl6
14:08 takadonet rakudo: sub warn{???};warn();
14:08 p6eval rakudo 929998: Unable to parse block; couldn't find final '}' at line 2, near "???};warn("␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
14:08 PerlJam joined #perl6
14:09 masak rakudo: sub foo() { ??? }; foo
14:09 p6eval rakudo 929998: Unable to parse block; couldn't find final '}' at line 2, near "??? }; foo"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
14:09 masak hm.
14:09 jnthn masak: Don't think we parse ??? and !!! in Rakudo.
14:09 jnthn Only ...
14:09 jnthn I recall trying to put it in and running into parsing issues.
14:09 takadonet ahhh
14:10 masak jnthn: oki. I knew I'd used '...', so I guess I assumed that the other two were there, too.
14:10 Thyssen joined #perl6
14:10 jnthn masak: Yeah, my initial attempt was to add all three, but I had to back off.
14:10 takadonet Well we were using '???' in Bioperl6 . Looks like I got to take that out
14:10 jnthn masak: If we're lucky, the new grammar/grammar engine will allow them to be easily put in.
14:11 masak I'm sure it will. :)
14:12 masak after ng lands, we'll have no parsing bugs left in RT.
14:12 masak I'll wake up one morning and feel slightly empty inside.
14:12 masak and I'll look at my inbox and see that 318 bugs were fixed that night.
14:13 masak that's when I'll know: the ng has landed.
14:13 jnthn masak: 318? :-)
14:13 masak or so. :)
14:14 jnthn That's a bit ambitious. :-)
14:14 jnthn We'll get a lot of 'em with ng though :-)
14:14 masak 318 is a lot. :)
14:14 * masak teaches the course "Impeccable logic" in his spare time
14:17 Wolfman2000 ...ng still hasn't landed yet?
14:17 pmichaud jnthn: ping
14:17 jnthn pmichaud: pong...and good timing, I just finished my @other-task :-)
14:17 jnthn Like, 2 mins ago. :-)
14:17 PerlJam Wolfman2000: did you think it would happen over night?
14:17 Wolfman2000 PerlJam: would have been nice
14:17 pmichaud jnthn: when I compile Test.pm to Test.pir, the subs all appear to be in the global namespace instead of the 'Test' namespace
14:18 pmurias joined #perl6
14:18 PerlJam Wolfman2000: you *must* believe in magic  :)
14:18 jnthn pmichaud: That's...odd.
14:18 pmurias ruoso: hi
14:18 pmichaud I don't think I changed anything that would cause that
14:19 ruoso hi pmurias
14:19 Wolfman2000 PerlJam: In what way?
14:19 jnthn pmichaud: Oh, interesting.
14:19 jnthn pmichaud: It looks like
14:19 jnthn module Foo; sub test { } # gets it wrong
14:19 jnthn module Foo { sub test { } } # gets it right
14:20 pmichaud okay, checking.
14:20 pmurias ruoso: do you think supporting use Foo:from<perl5> on mildew-js is important?
14:20 ruoso I don't see how it could work
14:20 ruoso unless you have perl5 embedded in the js vm
14:21 pmichaud jnthn: oh, I see the problem
14:21 pmichaud we switched package_def to call <.newpad>  in the ; case but then didn't change the actions logic
14:21 jnthn pmichaud: I bet it's to do with the .newpad .finishpad
14:21 pmichaud right
14:21 pmichaud the package_def action is still creating its own block instead of using the one from .newpad
14:21 pmurias ruoso: currently we have the js vm embeded in perl5
14:22 pmichaud my $block := $<block>
14:22 pmichaud ?? $<block>.ast
14:22 pmichaud !! PAST::Block.new( $<statementlist>.ast, :node($/) );
14:22 ruoso pmurias, but can you callback?
14:22 pmichaud that PAST::Block.new should be popping the block created by <.newpad>
14:22 jnthn So it should.
14:22 pmichaud heh
14:23 pmichaud looks like I can just force a call to blockoid to get it :-)
14:23 pmurias ruoso: that's how &say works
14:23 ruoso pmurias, well... it it's possible, why not?
14:24 pmurias v8 is not stackless so we might have some problems with that
14:24 jnthn pmichaud: OK...so that fixes it for you?
14:25 pmichaud don't know yet... will know in a sec
14:25 jnthn 'k
14:26 pmurias ruoso: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/re-mildew/TESTS-js - the tests mildew-js passes
14:33 jnthn pmichaud: I haz a fix, if you don't already.
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14:35 pmichaud oh, sorry
14:35 pmichaud yes, my fix worked.
14:35 jnthn Mine too. ;-)
14:35 pmichaud (forgot to come back here and report)
14:35 pmichaud I just pushed mine
14:35 PerlJam dueling patches!
14:35 jnthn Two fixes enter. One fix leaves.
14:36 pmichaud and have a 'use' that is sufficient to get t/01-sanity/99-test-basic.t
14:36 pmichaud (it's really a major cheat at the moment)
14:36 Wolfman2000 ...more friendly competition between the two of you I assume?
14:36 pmichaud friendly?  hardly!  jnthn++ is my arch nemesis
14:36 jnthn When it shows up on github I'll compare it with fine. :-)
14:37 pmichaud :)
14:37 jnthn ;-)
14:37 ruoso pmurias, that's cool...
14:37 * ruoso is a bit sad because $work is consuming all his time
14:37 pmichaud jnthn: btw, having just watched a trace output....   .new is _really_ expensive.  :-(
14:38 pmichaud we should probably fix that at some point soon.
14:38 jnthn pmichaud: Yeah
14:38 jnthn pmichaud: Note that Code.new is a custom constructor.
14:38 jnthn pmichaud: Not going through the normal polava.
14:38 pmichaud just creating the :DEFAULT pair was a pain (so I took it out)
14:38 jnthn pmichaud: So at least *that* isn't horribly costly.
14:38 jnthn orly? Ouch.
14:39 pmichaud yes, I think it's better to short-circuit :DEFAULT since it's the common case
14:39 jnthn Me too.
14:40 jnthn So pmichaud Should I expect 99-test-basic.t to run here
14:40 jnthn ?
14:40 jnthn erm, s/So //
14:40 pmichaud test 10 fails, fixing it now
14:40 jnthn None of them run here.
14:40 pmichaud did you reconfigure?
14:40 jnthn "load_bytecode" couldn't find file 'Test.pir'
14:40 pmichaud ah
14:40 jnthn yeah
14:40 jnthn I'm pretty sure I did
14:41 * jnthn realcleans just in case
14:41 pmichaud I need to fix the makefile to automatically build Test.pir
14:41 jnthn Or do I need a newer nqp-rx or something?
14:41 jnthn Ah, OK.
14:41 pmichaud pushed
14:42 jnthn pulled
14:42 jnthn pmichaud: lol. Our dueling patches - some whitespace differences aside - were identical.
14:43 pmichaud heh
14:44 jnthn pmichaud: erm.
14:44 jnthn pmichaud: nmake test not only made Test.pir but also did an svn up :-)
14:44 pmichaud yeah, it pulled the spectests
14:44 pmichaud I'll clean that up a bit also.
14:45 jnthn No worries then.
14:45 jnthn And now 99 runs up to test 9 here too.
14:45 jnthn Excellent.
14:45 jnthn Now I can haz spectests? ;-)
14:45 pmichaud getting closer
14:45 pmichaud adding .abs now
14:46 jnthn pmichaud: lol. make spectest actually does run.
14:46 jnthn And the fail is beyond epic.
14:46 pmichaud to be expected.
14:47 * masak cheers pmichaud and jnthn on
14:47 jnthn pmichaud: We pass 93 tests! \o/
14:47 pmichaud lol
14:47 jnthn ...out of 30,000 ;-)
14:47 pmichaud that many?!?
14:47 jnthn Tests. Not test files. :-)
14:47 pmichaud ...that many?!?
14:47 jnthn :-)
14:48 jnthn To say we didn't even put things like given/when and gather/take and for loops back yet, it's not so surprising. :-)
14:49 jnthn (That hardly anything runs).
14:49 jnthn On the up side, the spectest run is down to 78 seconds for me now.
14:49 pmichaud lol
14:49 PerlJam jnthn++
14:49 takadonet hehe
14:49 pmichaud okay, just pushed Any.abs
14:49 PerlJam jnthn: now if you could just keep it there (approximately)    :-)
14:50 pmichaud oh, I did that the hard way :-(
14:50 masak .oO( two weeks till release, and Rakudo doesn't have for loops yet. I'm not worried. )
14:50 pmichaud masak: if we're not far enough along by the release date, we release the non-ng version :)
14:51 masak pmichaud: aye. :)
14:51 pmichaud it will be a very interesting week, though.
14:51 jnthn Aye, same.
14:51 masak pmichaud: thing is, I kinda want you to succeed.
14:51 pmichaud and I think it's just 9 days to release, yes?
14:51 PerlJam pmichaud: with a note that says, "there are no visible changes from last release"?
14:51 masak pmichaud: oh, right.
14:51 pmichaud masak: oh, believe me, I really really really want to succeed :)
14:51 jnthn All sleep is cancelled!
14:52 pugs_svn r29044 | pmurias++ | [mildew-js] Scalars start filled with SMOP__NATIVE__bool_false
14:52 pmichaud being able to release ng as the november release would be a huge accomplishment.  maybe not likely, but definitely huge
14:52 * masak quits babbling and leaves pmichaud and jnthn alone with the awesome work
14:53 jnthn pmichaud++ # 99-test-basic.t passes :-)
14:54 pmichaud yeah, but I commented out a few of the tests from 99-test-basic.t .  I'm not sure how many of those I feel ought to be available for 01-sanity
14:55 pmichaud and oops, I forgot to credit KyleHa for the 99-test-basic.t tests.
14:55 pmichaud I need to do that in the log somewhere.
14:55 kosmofield joined #perl6
14:55 pmichaud okay, what was the issue with 'is export' on methods?
14:56 pmichaud oh, I think I know.
14:56 jnthn Finding the correct ns.
14:56 jnthn Same as with lexical subs.
14:56 pmichaud is there a way to discover that a given Parrot Sub is part of a multisub ?
14:56 pmichaud i.e., without looking it up in its namespace?
14:57 pmichaud we can't always go running to the namespace to decide that.
14:57 jnthn Don't believe so.
14:57 pmichaud can we flag them somehow?
14:57 pmichaud or have something in the signature object that says "oh, this is a multi" ?
14:57 jnthn Oh, is that the main reason we go digging in the NS?
14:58 pmichaud afaict, it's the only reason for digging in the NS
14:58 jnthn It doesn't belong in the signature object really...more a property of the code object.
14:58 pmichaud oh, that would work too.
14:58 jnthn But since we construct all of those, and can know when we make them if it's a multi or not...
14:58 jnthn I could very easily add that.
14:58 pmichaud I don't need to know which multi it's a member of... because any given Code object may be a member of many multis
14:58 jnthn Yes.
14:58 jnthn Just whether it's a multi member.
14:58 pmichaud I just need to know "hey, this is a multi, so it gets added differently to namespaces"
14:59 pmichaud attribute on Code sounds awesome.
14:59 jnthn Just attr? We'll get at it with getattribute?
14:59 jnthn Or accessor?
14:59 pmichaud accessor is fine
14:59 pmichaud you choose :)
14:59 jnthn Let's try doing this as .multi
14:59 pmichaud okay
14:59 pmichaud we'll want to update the synopses, too :)
15:00 jnthn .multi is already in the synopses.
15:00 pmichaud then.... there ya go!
15:00 jnthn The question is if an individual candidate of a multi should claim to be multi.
15:01 jnthn If yes, that's a semantic change from what Rakudo master does.
15:01 pmichaud I could argue that it's a multi of one :)
15:01 jnthn But I doubt it'll bite anyone. :-)
15:02 pmichaud I can't find .multi in the synopses with a quick ack... but it's not vitally important right now :)
15:02 jnthn pmichaud: S12
15:03 jnthn in introspection section
15:03 zamolxes joined #perl6
15:04 pmichaud okay
15:04 pmichaud wfm
15:04 masak ooh! can I rename Perl 6 to "Proxylon"? :D
15:05 pugs_svn r29045 | pmurias++ | [mildew-js] start of RoleHOW, 6/7 tests from t/role.t pass
15:05 pmichaud sounds like a new chemical.  or a Transformer(TM).
15:05 masak pmichaud: yes, something like that.
15:06 masak maybe "Proxylon VI".
15:07 jnthn pmichaud: got a patch, make test'ing it.
15:07 jnthn pmichaud: Will need to tweak this a little when I do multi-methods, but that's no biggie (multi-methods shouldn't be a big deal either...)
15:07 pmichaud jnthn: okay, great.  The objects passed to the export trait... are they Code/Regex/Block  or are they Parrot Subs ?
15:07 jnthn They're wrapped.
15:07 pmichaud excellent
15:07 pmichaud okay, methods become easier then :)
15:08 pmichaud and.... oooh!  I get to use 'vivify' again!
15:08 jnthn Wow, it's almost as if it's like, really useful. :-)
15:09 pmichaud I'm trying to get    method xyz() is export { ... }   to work again.  Shortly after that we'll undoubtedly want   multi method xyz() is export { ... }
15:09 * colomon backlogs... 93 tests pass, woo-hoo!
15:09 pmichaud so you might want to prepare your multi-method tweak :)
15:09 colomon pmichaud: based on the trig work, I'm not convinced is export actually worked before.  :)
15:09 jnthn pmichaud: bah, 5 lines added to implement .multi :-)
15:09 pmichaud 5?!?  why so many?
15:09 pmichaud ;-)
15:09 jnthn :-P
15:10 pmichaud colomon: based on what I know of rakudo, I'm convinced it didn't actually work before :)
15:10 pmurias ruoso: do exceptions get rethrown if we don't set the .handled attribute?
15:10 jnthn pmichaud: pushed
15:10 KyleHa joined #perl6
15:10 colomon pmichaud: fair enough, I was trying to be conservative in my critique.  :)
15:10 ruoso pmurias, I think it's the catch block that has an implicit rethrow in the end
15:10 jnthn pmichaud: OK, gonna have a 10 min break, make a cuppa tea and then do multi methods.
15:10 pmichaud jnthn: okay, great
15:11 jnthn ('cus yes, we will want them really quite soon)
15:13 pmurias ruoso: that seems to be what the spec dictates, so the .handled flag on ControlExceptionReturn seems to be a bit pointless
15:13 ruoso it gets rethrown *if* not handled
15:14 * ruoso lunch &
15:18 pmichaud jnthn: ummmm, ContainerDeclarand looks really wrongish to me.
15:19 pmichaud oh, nm
15:19 pmichaud I misread it
15:19 alester I think Container Declarand plays for the Pistons.
15:19 pmichaud ...and I was looking in the wrong directory anyway :-(
15:20 pmichaud I think I might want to move all of the non-ng directories somewhere else
15:21 * pmichaud does that.
15:21 moritz_ btw you were passing a few spectests even before 'use Test;' worked
15:21 Psyche^ joined #perl6
15:21 moritz_ because some tests for say and print don't use Test.pm
15:23 cognominal joined #perl6
15:26 pugs_svn r29046 | pmurias++ | [re-mildew] remove a TEST which test for nonspec $OUT
15:26 pugs_svn r29047 | pmurias++ | [mildew-js] exceptions, role.t passes
15:27 pmichaud still no easy way to get dalek to report the ng branch as well as master...?  :-|
15:29 jnthn pmichaud: I'm curious how it looked wrongish. :-)
15:29 Wolfman2000 pmichaud: why not just have another bot that specifically listens to the other branch?
15:29 pmichaud jnthn: sorry, I was looking at the non-ng branch
15:29 pmichaud and.... well, nm.
15:30 jnthn :-)
15:30 jnthn OK...tea...metallica....multi methods.
15:30 Achilles333 joined #perl6
15:31 pmichaud might want to pull to get my recent changes
15:32 jnthn Whoa...yes.
15:32 pmichaud I just moved the old master files into a src/old/ subdir
15:32 jnthn yup
15:32 jnthn wfm
15:32 jnthn I've been in the wrong place at least once. :-)
15:32 pmichaud so I'm less likely to mistake them for the new ng ones in the future :)
15:32 pmichaud same here :)
15:33 jnthn token routine_declarator:submethod { <sym> <method_def> }
15:34 jnthn pmichaud: For these, wondering if it might be nice to set a contextual.
15:34 jnthn So method_def can create the right kinda thingy.
15:34 pmichaud wfm
15:34 jnthn 'k
15:34 jnthn May as well do it while I'm in that bit of the code.
15:34 jnthn rakudo: say Submethod
15:34 pmichaud unless it's easy for submethod to simply modify what method_def returns
15:34 p6eval rakudo 929998: Submethod()␤
15:34 jnthn rakudo: say Submethod ~~ Method
15:34 p6eval rakudo 929998: 0␤
15:34 jnthn rakudo: say Submethod ~~ Routine
15:35 p6eval rakudo 929998: 1␤
15:35 jnthn pmichaud: Mmmm...no, it's a pain.
15:35 pmichaud then go with the contextual
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15:49 pmichaud jnthn: does Perl6MultiSub expect to have a list of Code objects or a list of Parrot Subs?
15:50 pmichaud rephrased:  What's the proper procedure for creating a Perl6MultiSub and adding a Code object to it?
15:50 pmichaud right now I have
15:50 pmichaud $P0 = new ['Perl6MultiSub']
15:50 pmichaud push $P0, codeobj
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15:51 jnthn pmichaud: Now it wants a Code object.
15:51 jnthn pmichaud: That should work.
15:51 pmichaud hmmm, I'm getting a segfault.  I'll trace.
15:51 jnthn pmichaud: alternatively, if you have a bunch of candidates to add in one go, there's the method.
15:51 jnthn Oh, ouch.
15:51 jnthn But possible.
15:51 jnthn The code objects change rather than having Parrot subs in there was quite a notable one.
15:52 pmichaud uh, vivify op fail
15:52 pmichaud *ugh
15:53 pmichaud It's "Perl6MultiSub", yes?
15:53 pmichaud maybe vivify can't handle dynpmcs or hll-specific pmcs yet :-(
15:53 jnthn pmichaud: yeah
15:53 jnthn Oh.
15:53 jnthn :-/
15:53 jnthn Did you get a bt?
15:54 pmichaud testing
15:55 pmichaud #0  Parrot_Perl6MultiSub_elements (interp=0x9a7c008, pmc=0xb6be33a0) at perl6multisub.c:933
15:55 pmichaud #1  0xb7e861b6 in Parrot_NameSpace_set_pmc_keyed_str (interp=0x9a7c008, pmc=0xb6be3558, key=0xb656ce94, value=0xb6be33a0) at ./src/pmc/namespace.pmc:134
15:55 pmichaud #2  0xb7d411bb in Parrot_vivify_p_p_s_p (cur_opcode=0xb6d805c4, interp=0x9a7c008) at src/ops/experimental.ops:234
15:55 pmichaud ...
15:55 pmichaud oh, doesn't look like a vivify op problem
15:56 pmichaud looks like something weird with setting the newly created MultiSub into the namespace
15:56 pmichaud when it's as-yet empty, perhaps?
15:56 jnthn oh!
15:56 jnthn I bet I know what's wrong.
15:59 pmichaud ooc, would things be easier if Perl6MultiSub extended ResizablePMCArray instead of MultiSub ?
15:59 jnthn N
15:59 jnthn *no
15:59 jnthn It'd be horrible.
16:00 moritz_ pmichaud, Infinoid: i've sent a pull request on github to make dalek report rakudo's ng branch
16:00 moritz_ if it's correct, somebody just needs to merge it, and update the bot on feather3
16:01 masak moritz_++
16:03 jnthn pmichaud: oh hmm...it's not what I thought it would be. Hmm.
16:03 colomon \o/   # then I can close the github ng commits tab I've had open in my browser for a week...
16:03 pmichaud jnthn: okay, looking.
16:03 jnthn oh, hang on
16:03 jnthn I misread the bt.
16:03 pmichaud when does candidates get created?
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16:04 pmichaud I'm guessing it doesn't get created until a push occurs
16:04 pmichaud and so VTABLE_elements segfaults because candidates is uninitialized
16:05 jnthn pmichaud: yeah, that's it
16:05 jnthn got a patch
16:05 pmichaud okay
16:07 pmichaud btw, this change I'm making to export means it will be possible to have some multisub candidates exported while others are not
16:08 jnthn pmichaud: sounds good
16:08 jnthn pushed
16:08 pmichaud pulled.
16:09 pmichaud Cannot add non-Sub PMC to a MultiSub.
16:10 pmichaud checking
16:10 pmichaud nm, fail on this end
16:11 pmichaud 102067 push P2, P17                                        P2=Perl6MultiSub=PMC(0xb6b967c0) P17=Perl6Sub=PMC(0xb6b979f4)
16:11 moritz_ we now pass t/spec/S03-operators/assign-is-not-binding.t
16:11 pmichaud Cannot add non-Sub PMC to a MultiSub.
16:11 jnthn huh
16:11 moritz_ and t/spec/S04-statements/until.t
16:12 jnthn pmichaud: But I use VTABLE_push in the normal candidate adding.
16:12 moritz_ adn three other files :-)
16:12 jnthn pmichaud: oh, I see the problem.
16:12 jnthn pmichaud: Is it a Method?
16:12 pmichaud jnthn: I don't think it is at this point.
16:12 pmichaud I'm just compiling Test.pm
16:12 jnthn meh
16:13 moritz_ pmichaud: did you clean?
16:13 pmichaud I can try that
16:13 jnthn pmichaud: just comment out
16:13 jnthn if (!check_invokable(interp, sub))
16:13 jnthn Parrot_ex_throw_from_c_args(interp, NULL, EXCEPTION_INVALID_OPERATION,
16:13 jnthn "Cannot add non-Sub PMC to a MultiSub.");
16:13 jnthn The check is bogus now.
16:13 pmichaud commenting out....
16:14 pmichaud yay, that helped
16:15 jnthn We may have multi methods.
16:15 jnthn Yup
16:16 pmichaud Just pushed fixes to export so that it properly handles methods and multis.
16:16 jnthn Excellent.
16:16 jnthn pmichaud++
16:16 Woodi is echo '/opt/perl/bin/perl6' >> /etc/shells safe ? :)
16:17 jnthn pmichaud: Did you commit commetning out in P6MS too?
16:17 pmichaud jnthn: yes, I think so.
16:17 jnthn oh yes, you have. Good.
16:18 jnthn Multi methods pushed too.
16:22 masak here's a killer app for Perl 6 grammars: make a grammar for Java (6) programs, and create a program which allows you to sort methods in some desired order, possibly goverened by some arbitrary sort criterion written out as Perl 6 code.
16:23 masak or just 'sort the methods in this class in the same order as in this interface'.
16:24 PerlJam I want all of my ops output in precedence order  :)
16:25 pmichaud jnthn: hmmmm
16:26 pmichaud because methods no longer have the :method flag on them, they aren't showing up in the Parrot namespaces
16:26 pmichaud > say -3.abs
16:26 pmichaud Method 'abs' not found for invocant of class 'Integer'
16:26 lambdabot Not in scope: `say'
16:26 jnthn pmichaud: Oh.
16:26 jnthn pmichaud: ...but by default methods aren't supposed to go in the namespace, no?
16:26 TimToady correct
16:27 pmichaud sorry
16:27 pmichaud I'll rephrase
16:27 jnthn They're "has" scoped, and without an explicit "our" (which I didn't put back in)...
16:27 jnthn (and which we never used to get right anyway...)
16:27 pmichaud since methods no longer have the :method flag on them, they aren't found by P6object when trying to fake them into the Parrot classes
16:27 pmichaud because P6object walks the method hierarchy
16:27 pmichaud and it currently does it at the time the class is created
16:27 jnthn :-/
16:27 pmichaud while the methods get added much later
16:27 jnthn Oh!
16:27 jnthn Yeah
16:27 jnthn ETOOSOON.
16:28 jnthn Was going to say, how are you walking them, since they show up in the underlying parrot class.
16:28 pmichaud I could have the registers done at CHECK time
16:28 jnthn But yes, the timing will be an issue if you're handling this at "add_parent".
16:28 jnthn You really want to do it at compose time I guess.
16:29 jnthn Yes, that could do.
16:29 jnthn You could also then collect them all together in a cheats file. ;-)
16:29 pmichaud oh yes
16:29 pmichaud it's a parrot cheat, it goes there
16:29 pmichaud those all occur at the end anyway
16:29 jnthn Given that I'm not sure fudging bits into the Parrot namespaces is probably something we want to stop doing at some point.
16:29 pmichaud I think we'll want to stop doing it, yes.
16:30 jnthn erm, negatives fail...but you got my gist. :-)
16:30 pmichaud I'll put them in as parrot cheats.
16:30 jnthn wfm
16:32 pmichaud okay, I need lunch
16:32 pmichaud starting to feel productivity decline... lunch will help
16:33 jnthn :-)
16:33 pmichaud I'm glad we have Test.pm working.  And "is export".  On subs.  and methods.  and multis.
16:33 pmichaud so far, it's been a good morning.  :)
16:33 TimToady I'm still working on the incline part
16:33 jnthn And multi methods.
16:33 pmichaud okay, I'm gone to lunch.  bbiah
16:34 PerlJam So, I know I've mentioned this before, but is there a compose-time block ala BEGIN, INIT, CHECK, etc?
16:34 TimToady s/block/phaser/ and no
16:34 TimToady (so far)
16:35 jnthn PerlJam: What do you want to hook?
16:35 PerlJam ah, we settled on calling those phasers?  interesting :)
16:35 pmichaud PerlJam: oh, you should see the code... :)
16:35 TimToady turns out to be important to rename them for several reasons
16:35 PerlJam jnthn: nothing concrete, just thinking of various ways to settle method conflicts.
16:35 jnthn pmichaud: Is it deliberate that we have Bool::True and True, but only Bool::False and not False? :-)
16:35 pmichaud not deliberate
16:35 pmichaud feel free to fix
16:35 TimToady the passage describing them suddently became much clearer because "block" now always refers to the surrounding block
16:36 pmichaud PerlJam: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/ng/src/glue/phasers.pir
16:36 jnthn pmichaud: 'k
16:36 jnthn pmichaud: They need to does Abstraction to, then we win back ref.t
16:36 jnthn *too
16:36 PerlJam TimToady: and I guess all of the block specific "keywords" now all make sense inside phasers because they aren't really blocks?
16:36 frew__ joined #perl6
16:37 TimToady PerlJam: example?
16:37 PerlJam TimToady: return
16:37 PerlJam or leave
16:37 pmichaud they're still blocks, afaict
16:37 TimToady a phaser may or may not contain a block
16:37 TimToady if it does, there are explicit braces
16:38 TimToady but also we have $x = BEGIN rand()
16:38 TimToady that's a blockless phaser
16:38 fax joined #perl6
16:39 PerlJam so, what does BEGIN { say "hi" ; return; say "there" }  mean?
16:39 TimToady come to think of it, "blorst" kinda sounds like a Star Trek monster...
16:39 pmichaud TOS, yes.
16:39 TimToady it would be an error, since there's no sub to return from
16:39 jnthn Need I even point at $*BORG? :-)
16:40 pmichaud PerlJam: return is tied to Routines, not blocks
16:40 PerlJam Yeah, I think I'll shutup now until I get the taxonomy straight in my head  :)
16:40 pmichaud okay, gone for lunch
16:40 TimToady and yes, we do need to come up with a better term than "lexical return" to make diakopter happy
16:40 [particle] what about last?
16:41 jnthn TimToady: Why is return lexical, btw?
16:41 [particle] BEGIN { say 'hi'; last; say 'there' }
16:41 jnthn I was trying to remember the reason.
16:41 TimToady to do what the user expects
16:41 * [particle] needs to re-read the specs
16:42 PerlJam std:  BEGIN -> $x { ... }
16:42 p6eval std 29047: ok 00:01 112m␤
16:42 jnthn TimToady: sub foo() { my $x = { return 42 }; return $x; }; my $a = foo(); $a(); # what happens?
16:42 PerlJam [particle]: me too
16:42 nihiliad joined #perl6
16:43 [particle] this is how much i forget... re: C<if bank == 'CHECK' goto bank_lifo> is == automagic in pir?
16:43 TimToady you get an error, because the routine that it knows it should return from is not in the dynamic scope
16:43 jnthn [particle]: Think it does an MMD under the hood.
16:43 [particle] bank is a string there, so i guess it should be ok
16:44 pmichaud in PIR, == translates into   eq
16:44 [particle] ok, perfect.
16:44 pmichaud i.e., the opcode is actually      eq a, b, label
16:44 [particle] that was my confusion. thanks.
16:44 pmichaud the meaning of the 'eq' opcode depends on a
16:45 jnthn oh, non-mmd then.
16:48 PerlJam constant $foo = foo();  is semantically equivalent to   constant $foo = BEGIN foo();    ?
16:48 PerlJam or constant $foo = BEGIN { foo() };
16:48 TimToady we need a term for "dynamically scoped unwinding operation with a target discovered via lexical scoping"
16:49 jnthn lexnamic
16:49 PerlJam lexamic
16:49 jnthn dynical
16:49 moritz_ exotic
16:49 PerlJam strange
16:49 PerlJam up, down, top, color ... oh wait  ;)
16:50 jnthn thingihopethatpmimplementsnotme ;-)
16:50 TimToady 50's SF: lexodyne
16:51 TimToady lexception
16:52 TimToady which is a little too close to l'exception  :)
16:53 TimToady lexotic
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16:58 oZ] joined #perl6
16:58 pmurias TimToady: STD::P5 is intended to evolve into a full perl 5 grammar?
16:59 TimToady for some definition of P5 or other
16:59 TimToady I doubt it will ever quite reach the insanity of p5's lexer/parser, but can quite probably do much better than PPI
17:00 moritz_ like, tracking prototypes?
17:00 TimToady its original intent was just to let us find the end of a 'use v5' block
17:00 TimToady but it may turn out useful for emulating p5 as well
17:01 justatheory joined #perl6
17:01 TimToady and maybe there's a longterm goal of moving 5.14 over to a P6-based parser  :)
17:02 * moritz_ is glad to have seen a smily at the end of TimToady's last line
17:07 jnthn pmichaud: OK, fixed up the boolean bits, so ref.t lives again.
17:12 TimToady well, I think "lexotic" will have to do for now
17:14 TimToady looks like existing uses are all having to do with exotic Lexuses :)
17:14 Wolfman2000 Alright, real world time for me.
17:15 Wolfman2000 If I'm lucky, I can be online around...6 PM EST to get back to...one of the Perl 6 pastebins.
17:15 pugs_svn r29048 | masak++ | [u4x/TODO] added 'phaser' and 'lexotic'
17:15 Wolfman2000 masak: We'll see who ends up with the best package.
17:15 masak Wolfman2000: :)
17:21 zaphar_ps joined #perl6
17:21 Woodi masak: i got: Found a PARROT_DIR to be /src/perl/parrot but there is no Rakudo nearby. Please contact the proto people.
17:22 masak Woodi: hello.
17:22 Woodi masak: so probably you are needed :)
17:22 masak I guess I am a proto person. :)
17:22 masak Woodi: was that in a project you tried to install? which one?
17:22 Woodi json
17:22 * masak has a look at json
17:23 Woodi perl6 Configure
17:23 Woodi from hand
17:23 cotto_work joined #perl6
17:23 alester joined #perl6
17:23 Woodi shouldn't it be Configure.pl or something ?
17:24 masak Woodi: hold on a bit. I'm looking at moritz_'s json, and I see no Configure.
17:24 masak oh wait.
17:25 Woodi it use lib/Configure.pm wroted by merends
17:25 Woodi mberends++ :)
17:26 masak aye.
17:26 masak I seemed to have an old version, and git somehow wouldn't update it for me.
17:26 masak now.
17:26 Woodi i probably cp -r project_name/lib/*.pm to $PERL6LIB...
17:26 masak Woodi: could you tell me a bit about your Rakudo setup?
17:27 Woodi dpkg -L rakudo gives all files starting with /opt/perl/* :)
17:27 masak ah, dpkg :)
17:27 masak that's the clue I needed, I think.
17:29 Woodi problem is: all modules are in development stage... requires --gen-parrot
17:29 masak mberends++ Configure.pm is the most copied module in Perl 6 land. and it exists in fewer version than Test.pm, too. :)
17:29 Woodi i just trying _last month_ to be perl6 user...
17:30 masak Woodi: when November was more actively developed, we had a policy of targeting the latest monthly release of Rakudo.
17:30 Woodi so, cp *.pm to will help
17:30 masak not sure what you mean by that.
17:31 Woodi targeting specific realease do not imply build/install location...
17:31 masak Configure.pm thinks you either have rakudo-in-parrot or parrot-in-rakudo, but you probably have neither, since dpkg installed Rakudo for you.
17:31 sjohnson joined #perl6
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17:31 Woodi i created that package
17:31 masak which one?
17:31 masak the Ubuntu package?
17:31 Woodi rakudo.deb :)
17:31 quietfanatic joined #perl6
17:31 masak s/Ubuntu/Debian/
17:32 masak Woodi++ # cool!
17:32 Woodi .deb like in Debian :)
17:32 masak Woodi: not saying you did anything wrong, just that you created a new situation which Configure.pm doesn't handle.
17:32 Woodi Ubuntu inherits from Debian :)
17:32 masak nod.
17:32 Woodi masak: proto too
17:32 masak aye.
17:33 masak this is a situation which we should address.
17:33 masak problem is, I feel proto has grown larger than I can handle myself, and what little energy I have I'd like to use for landing the installed-modules branch.
17:34 Woodi masak: may I extract some functionalities from proto ?
17:34 masak Woodi: of course.
17:35 Woodi masak: in truth i realy would like to move rakudo/parrot installation somewhere else..
17:36 Woodi mean: more modularity
17:36 masak I have very little overview over .deb packages.
17:36 Woodi masak: what about .tgz :)
17:37 masak those I feel I understand a bit more. :)
17:38 Woodi is any accepted standard for crating modules in Perl6 ?
17:38 masak sort of.
17:38 stephenlb joined #perl6
17:39 masak there are some Well-Throught-Out Practices.
17:39 masak we like .pm files to sit in lib/
17:39 masak and .t files to sit in t/
17:39 Woodi where i can find example of something "standard" ?
17:39 masak hold on.
17:39 masak http://github.com/masak/proto/blob/master/PIONEER
17:40 masak if you mean a project that follows those directives, I think json is a good example.
17:40 moritz_ it basically does nothing at all, and still follows them ;-)
17:42 Woodi ok, so 1) perl6? (Makefile.PL|Configure) && make
17:42 Woodi what about 2) install ?
17:43 pnate2 joined #perl6
17:43 Woodi copy *.pm to PERL6LIB or maybe *.pir
17:44 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
17:48 Woodi ehm, any plans for post-S11 module filenames convention ?
17:49 rindolf joined #perl6
17:49 rindolf Hi all.
17:49 rindolf masak: here?
17:49 Woodi allo
17:50 rindolf Hi Woodi
17:50 masak Woodi: I have yet to make someone who wants to tackle that. :)
17:50 masak rindolf: yes.
17:50 masak s/make/meet/
17:50 Woodi "tackle" ?
17:50 masak Woodi: realizing the details of S11 is... tricky.
17:50 rindolf masak: hi. I read your use.perl.org blog entry about "Perl 6 is not Perl".
17:51 masak rindolf: I'm still settling down after that one.
17:51 iblechbot joined #perl6
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17:52 rindolf masak: I should first note that a quote I came up with (but was sort of invented by many people and is based on what was said about Fortran '90) is: "Perl 6 will be a wonderful language. Too bad it won't be Perl."
17:52 masak rindolf: today we had a discussion here on #perl6, and we decided to change the name of Perl 6 to "Proxylon VI" instead. we feel that better reflects the nature of the language.
17:52 mtve joined #perl6
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17:52 rindolf masak: heh.
17:52 rindolf masak: what is Proxylon?
17:52 sjohnson joined #perl6
17:52 masak no idea.
17:52 masak rindolf: seriously though,
17:53 rindolf masak: ah.
17:53 Woodi masak: but plans ? Buu::Foo-1.40.pm or in bd ?
17:53 masak rindolf: I don't agree that Perl 6 isn't Perl.
17:53 masak rindolf: but I also feel that that isn't the main issue.
17:53 rindolf masak: I'm not sure if it's Perl or not , but I don't care.
17:53 rindolf IT's like saying that Open source is communism or Socialism - it's good for the people, so who cares if it is?
17:53 masak rindolf: the main issue is that people on #perl have a black-and-white view on the world, which doesn't help newcomers.
17:54 rindolf masak: ah.
17:54 masak that's what my post was about.
17:54 masak Woodi: your guess is as good as mine.
17:55 Woodi rindolf: case was: newcomer wanted learn Perl and logical conclusion for she was not (becouse of 5-6 war)...
17:55 * PerlJam is a people on #perl without a black-and-white view
17:55 rindolf So am I.
17:55 * Woodi too
17:56 pmichaud back again
17:56 rindolf Well, we all agree that the Perl 6 implementations are probably still not ready to be used in production.
17:56 masak sure.
17:56 rindolf and that Perl 5 knowledge may help with P6.
17:56 PerlJam rindolf: depends on what you mean by "production", but sure :)
17:56 Woodi rindolf: sure, agree :)
17:56 diakopter pugs is used in production in several places
17:57 PerlJam diakopter: really?  where?
17:57 pmurias the are well suited to production of bug reports ;)
17:57 payload joined #perl6
17:57 PerlJam pmurias++
17:57 diakopter PerlJam: I don't know the specifics; sum1 said so a year or two ago
17:57 * PerlJam doubts
17:57 diakopter sum1 being the author
17:57 rindolf PerlJam: yes, well.
17:58 diakopter PerlJam: it's maintained at http://hackage.haskell.org/package/Pugs
17:58 diakopter regular releases through end of '08...
17:58 rindolf masak: well, if I could build a time machine, I would have renamed Perl 6 to some other name.
17:59 rindolf J/K - don't mess with time.
17:59 masak Proxylon VI!
17:59 rindolf masak: heh.
17:59 rindolf Proxylon EMACS!
17:59 * PerlJam wonders what people's hangup is with the name.  seriously
17:59 masak oh, that's a Roman 6.
17:59 oZ] Seems Perl people aren't fond of change.
17:59 rindolf masak: yeah, I know.
17:59 rindolf I know my Roman numerals.
18:00 PerlJam oZ]: There are lots of Perl people here who disprove that generality  ;)
18:00 diakopter oZ]: Seems to me you like sweeping unfounded generalizations
18:00 Juerd diakopter: Some daredevil using experimental code in production doesn't make the code production ready :)
18:00 oZ] Present company excluded.
18:01 jnthn oZ]: A lot more than present company excluded.
18:01 masak food &
18:01 rindolf In any case, I've known emma from other channels - she's OK.
18:02 oZ] A lot of quiet people, perhaps. Those who scream the loudest are the ones that get noticed, which screws up the PR for Perl and Perl 6.
18:02 rindolf Though still a bit lacking knowledge.
18:02 diakopter however, many people do have a resistance to particular degrees of change; sometimes it's rationally based on the circumstances, sometimes it's arbitrary.
18:03 PerlJam The people who seem to be the most vocal about not changing Perl from Perl 5 are those that have never known any other perl.
18:03 PerlJam those that have only known the perl of the last 8-10 years or so.
18:04 * diakopter has known the perl of only the last 6 years (and it shows!)
18:04 oZ] That's probably true, but I'd say that the majority of people who still use Perl are those who have only used Perl 5.
18:04 rindolf PerlJam: I did very little Perl 4.
18:04 rindolf If at all.
18:05 rindolf But Perl so an explosive growth after Perl 5 came out.
18:05 takadonet Never got this error before : "Internal Error: Rakudo_binding_bind_signature passed invalid signature"
18:05 oZ] I started in 1999, and that still gives a fairly myopic view of Perl. That being said, I'm not averse to Perl 6 or Moose or whatever the new flavor happens to be, even if that means another language.
18:05 PerlJam oZ]: why not?
18:06 moritz_ takadonet: on master or on the ng branch?
18:06 takadonet moritz_: Master good sir
18:06 oZ] Why am I not averse to new languages or ways of using them? Because if I expect to stay relevant as a developer, I can't use the same thing for the rest of my life. :)
18:06 takadonet moritz_: Trying to fix some test in BioPerl6 that are failing
18:06 PerlJam oZ]: in short, you are sane :)
18:07 oZ] The sane people need to get louder, I guess. :)
18:07 quietfanatic takadonet: I got that error recently too.  I think it was from trying to overload trait_mod:<is> in a module.
18:07 quietfanatic (a module that used "is export")
18:08 pugs_svn r29049 | lwall++ | [S04] define "lexotic"
18:08 moritz_ takadonet: did you do a 'make realclean' before building rakudo? and did you remove all compiled .pir files in your project?
18:08 takadonet quietfanatic: Well at the moment I have no idea where it came from. I commented some test to see how much farther I go could and  got that message
18:09 takadonet moritz_: I have not
18:09 quietfanatic Hmm
18:09 takadonet moritz_ : I should do a clean rebuild
18:09 moritz_ takadonet: that would be my first try
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18:11 takadonet moritz_ : where are the compiled .pir files?
18:11 moritz_ takadonet: where you put them ;-)
18:11 moritz_ they aren't generated by default
18:12 moritz_ only if you do a perl6 --target=PIR somewhere
18:12 Woodi moritz_: --target=PIR is something like C .so files ?
18:13 Woodi 'compiled .pm' ?
18:13 Woodi or it is .pbc ?
18:13 moritz_ it's a PIR file
18:13 moritz_ so closer to assembler
18:14 Woodi --target=PBC works ?
18:15 moritz_ no idea; it did once
18:15 moritz_ it also broke once
18:15 pmichaud only --target=pir currently works
18:15 moritz_ at one point --target=PBC wouldn't work, but compiling to a PBC in a second step would
18:15 pmichaud and the .pir file isn't necessarily able to run standalone yet
18:15 spinclad Woodi: 'tackle': take on, try to do
18:15 pmichaud (these are actively being fixed in ng)
18:16 Woodi i would like what .* should have compiled P6 module for faster loading etc..
18:18 Woodi mean: what should do make install for P6 module except coping *.pm...
18:18 Woodi thanks spinclad++ :)
18:19 Woodi let someone tell me my questions are stupid :)
18:19 pdcawley_ joined #perl6
18:19 rindolf <oZ]> Why am I not averse to new languages or ways of using them? Because if I expect to stay relevant as a developer, I can't use the same thing for the rest of my life. :) - true.
18:20 rindolf Of course, C or Fortran or C++ or LISP or whatever today are very different than they've been when they started.
18:20 oZ] Some are closer to their core than others, but to be fair, the "core" of C is really, really simple.
18:21 moritz_ that's what I thought too
18:21 moritz_ until I learned more about pointers than I cared to know ;-)
18:21 rindolf Fully Portable C is very hard.
18:21 oZ] Quite true.
18:21 rindolf Even making sure Perl 5 code will run on VMS is hard.
18:22 rindolf And in C it may be much worse.
18:22 rindolf Not sure about OpenVMS.
18:23 rindolf I think dcantrell wanted to get a VMS CPAN smoking machine and I told him "Over my dead body."
18:23 rindolf Because it will spam everything with failures.
18:34 takadonet moritz+ : still getting the same error message. I will debug it when I get some free time
18:37 hudnix joined #perl6
18:39 pmichaud jnthn: ping
18:40 jnthn pmichaud: pong
18:40 REPLeffect_ joined #perl6
18:40 pmichaud we have a small issue.
18:41 jnthn Only a small one? :-)
18:41 pmichaud the only way I can find to add methods to a builtin Parrot class is by adding the method to its namespace
18:41 pmichaud and then it only will add it as a method if the :method flag is present
18:43 jnthn Lovely.
18:44 pmichaud is there a way to get our Method objects to have that flag?
18:45 jnthn ooh...erm...epic ouch.
18:45 jnthn It's a sub flag I think.
18:46 _eMaX_ joined #perl6
18:47 pmichaud okay, let me poke around a bit, then.
18:47 jnthn Meaning the only way we might be able to get this to work at all is grabbing the .do and adding that.
18:47 jnthn But that means we need the :method flag adding.
18:47 jnthn Which might cause other issues.
18:47 jnthn Since it'll pull the methods in then we'll go and re-add them through the metaclass, if we're associating the class with the ns.
18:48 jnthn I'm pretty sure the dispatcher does go looking in the namespace's methods table though.
18:48 jnthn And there's no accessor for that.
18:49 jnthn Well, there is one, but it then nulls the namespace's pointer to it as it returns it.
18:49 takadonet YES! got more BioPerl6 testing working!
18:51 jnthn Hmm.
18:51 jnthn pmichaud: Not sure. What's the main reason we're poking stuff into Parrot namespaces anyway?
18:52 pmichaud jnthn: so that  3.abs will work
18:52 pmichaud since 3 currently comes back as a Parrot Integer instead of a Rakudo Int
18:52 jnthn :-S
18:52 pmichaud last time I tried type mapping Integer to Int, we ended up with a ~3x slowdown
18:52 jnthn Oh. :-|
18:52 pmichaud (might not be so bad now... but still)
18:52 jnthn That's ridiculous.
18:52 pmichaud also, the values coming back from some of the libraries will often not be Rakudo data types
18:53 jnthn Yes, but if every HLL decides to solve that by poking methods into the Parrot core types...well...
18:53 pmichaud I agree, it's not a long term solution
18:53 pmichaud but until hll mapping is reasonably fast, it's the only one we really have
18:53 jnthn Yeah
18:54 jnthn OK, so we'll have to fudge them in somehow.
18:54 jnthn .do and give those the method flag may do it.
18:54 jnthn Let me check.
18:54 moritz_ the thread about auto promotion to BigInt on parrot-dev might also interest you
18:54 jnthn If that causes a problem.
18:54 pmichaud I'd prefer not to use the .do, though
18:54 pmichaud (yes, we may have to)
18:55 pmichaud but it feels like the wrong approach.  The methods really ought to be our Code objects
18:55 pmichaud and our MultiSubs
18:55 spinclad re 3x slowdown: now that pir::foo can take and return INS values, could we be closer to  1) native int etc types  2) less frequent box/unbox overhead ?
18:55 pmichaud spinclad: it really doesn't reduce the overhead
18:56 pmichaud spinclad: in many ways it increases it
18:56 jnthn pmichaud: Oh, the problem is because it's saying "isa Sub"
18:56 spinclad ouch
18:56 jnthn :-/
18:56 jnthn oh wtf, it gets worse
18:56 jnthn &&   value->vtable->base_type != enum_class_Object)
18:56 jnthn Yes, it actually says "and it's not a high level object"
18:57 jnthn (namespace.pmc:104)
18:58 spinclad how does overhead increase?
18:58 jnthn oh heh
18:58 jnthn I already had to work around a bug in add_multi_to_namespace
18:59 moritz_ spinclad: I think lexicals can only PMCs, or so
19:01 jnthn pmichaud: I'm struggling to see how to add the methods without them being the Parrot sub.
19:01 pmichaud jnthn: actually, I'm thinking this might not be an issue
19:01 pmichaud just a sec
19:01 jnthn ok
19:01 pmichaud i.e., I'm thinking we might be able to workaround a bit.
19:01 pmichaud what implements find_method for non-Object types?
19:02 jnthn checking
19:02 jnthn I think it's in the default pmc
19:03 pmichaud Parrot_find_method_with_cache...
19:03 jnthn The wonderfully named find_method_direct_1 seems to be where we end up.
19:04 jnthn oh, why does it even matter if they're :method ?
19:04 jnthn We do
19:04 jnthn _class = VTABLE_get_pmc_keyed_int(interp, mro, i);
19:04 jnthn ns     = VTABLE_get_namespace(interp, _class);
19:04 jnthn method = VTABLE_get_pmc_keyed_str(interp, ns, method_name);
19:05 jnthn So if it's this code, just dumping something into the namespace should do it.
19:05 pmichaud yeah, but I don't think that can be it.
19:05 pmichaud Because.... hmmm
19:05 jnthn Because?
19:05 jnthn :-)
19:06 jnthn It didn't work?
19:06 pmichaud I'm writing a short test case.
19:06 jnthn ok
19:06 pmichaud okay, that seems to do it.
19:06 pmichaud but it seems like register should be sticking the objects into the namespace already anyway
19:07 pmichaud so for some reason they aren't getting there
19:07 pmichaud (just putting a sub into the namespace makes it act like a method, no flag needed)
19:07 jnthn It's not a naming issue?
19:07 jnthn (&foo)
19:07 jnthn But I'd really guess not.
19:08 jnthn Check what keys they're going in under though.
19:12 colomon rakudo:  "{ fdfd, fdf   ,fdsgs,fdsg}" ~~ /\{ \s* (\w+) ** [\s*,\s*] \s* \}/;
19:12 p6eval rakudo 929998: perl6regex parse error: Error in repetition controller at offset 59, found '['␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
19:12 colomon rakudo:  "{ fdfd, fdf   ,fdsgs,fdsg}" ~~ /\{ \s* (\w+) ** [,\s*] \s* \}/;
19:13 p6eval rakudo 929998: perl6regex parse error: Error in repetition controller at offset 59, found '['␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
19:13 pmichaud it's not a naming issue -- these are methods
19:13 pmichaud and method names don't have the &'s
19:13 jnthn Sure
19:13 jnthn I know they *shouldn't*, I was suggesting checking for sure that they don't.
19:14 pmichaud right
19:14 TimToady std: "{ fdfd, fdf   ,fdsgs,fdsg}" ~~ /\{ \s* (\w+) ** [\s*,\s*] \s* \}/;
19:14 jnthn It's a long shot though.
19:14 pmichaud (a bit distracted on #parrotsketch and nqp at the moment)
19:14 p6eval std 29049: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix , instead at /tmp/edjEAzfMgw line 1:␤------> [32m"{ fdfd, fdf   ,[33m⏏[31mfdsgs,fdsg}" ~~ /\{ \s* (\w+) ** [\s*,\s[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤      fdfd used at line 1␤FAILED 00:02 109m␤
19:14 jnthn 'k
19:14 jnthn I need to do dinner now...will be distracted for the next while too while cooking.
19:14 pmichaud no problem
19:15 spinclad std: "{ fdfd, fdf   ,fdsgs,fdsg}" ~~ /\{ \s* (\w+) ** [\s*\,\s*] \s* \}/;
19:15 p6eval std 29049: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix , instead at /tmp/PM6JvkHl2v line 1:␤------> [32m"{ fdfd, fdf   ,[33m⏏[31mfdsgs,fdsg}" ~~ /\{ \s* (\w+) ** [\s*\,\[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤      fdfd used at line 1␤FAILED 00:02 107m␤
19:15 TimToady std: '{ fdfd, fdf   ,fdsgs,fdsg}' ~~ /\{ \s* (\w+) ** [\s*,\s*] \s* \}/;
19:15 p6eval std 29049: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unable to parse regex; couldn't find right bracket at /tmp/2BnPMByeQ9 line 1:␤------> [32m  ,fdsgs,fdsg}' ~~ /\{ \s* (\w+) ** [\s*[33m⏏[31m,\s*] \s* \}/;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤       quantmod␤ regex atom␤       regex_infix␤      standard stopper␤
19:15 p6eval ..terminator␤     ws␤FAILED…
19:15 TimToady should be complaining about unrecognized metacharacter
19:16 colomon TimToady: which one did I get wrong?
19:16 TimToady std: /\s*,\s*/
19:16 p6eval std 29049: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/' at /tmp/PdAQdnWJKK line 1:␤------> [32m/\s*[33m⏏[31m,\s*/[0m␤    expecting any of:␤        quantmod␤ regex atom␤       regex_infix␤      standard stopper␤ terminator␤     ws␤FAILED 00:01 103m␤
19:16 TimToady well, for one, you interpolated a closure unintentionally in double quotes
19:17 TimToady std: '{ fdfd, fdf   ,fdsgs,fdsg}' ~~ /\{ \s* (\w+) ** [\s*\,\s*] \s* \}/;
19:17 p6eval std 29049: ok 00:01 107m␤
19:17 pmichaud jnthn: oh, I see the issue.
19:17 pmichaud I'm using add_sub to put it in the namespace.
19:17 TimToady and the , has to be \'ed
19:18 pmichaud and since the thing to be added is not a Sub, nothing happens.
19:18 colomon TimToady: Drat, not only am I full of fail, but I can't see how.
19:18 TimToady std: /,/
19:18 p6eval std 29049: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/Ss6DYZtmhp line 1:␤------> [32m/[33m⏏[31m,/[0m␤    expecting any of:␤        regex atom␤       regex_infix␤      termish␤        ws␤FAILED 00:01 103m␤
19:18 TimToady std: /\s*,/
19:18 p6eval std 29049: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/' at /tmp/Ksvz7aL5Q4 line 1:␤------> [32m/\s*[33m⏏[31m,/[0m␤    expecting any of:␤   quantmod␤ regex atom␤       regex_infix␤      standard stopper␤ terminator␤     ws␤FAILED 00:01 103m␤
19:18 TimToady strange
19:18 pmichaud nqp:  token { \s*, }
19:18 p6eval nqp: Confused at line 1, near "token { \\s"␤current instr.: 'parrot;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/cheats/hll-grammar.pir:197)␤
19:19 pmichaud not much better :-(
19:19 pmichaud nqp:  token { , }
19:19 p6eval nqp: Confused at line 1, near "token { , "␤current instr.: 'parrot;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/cheats/hll-grammar.pir:197)␤
19:19 spinclad nqp:  token { \s*\, }
19:19 p6eval nqp: Confused at line 1, near "token { \\s"␤current instr.: 'parrot;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/cheats/hll-grammar.pir:197)␤
19:19 pmichaud oh, need a name
19:19 pmichaud nqp:  token xyz { \s*, }
19:19 p6eval nqp: Confused at line 1, near "token xyz "␤current instr.: 'parrot;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/cheats/hll-grammar.pir:197)␤
19:19 pmichaud nqp:  token xyz { , }
19:19 p6eval nqp: Confused at line 1, near "token xyz "␤current instr.: 'parrot;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/cheats/hll-grammar.pir:197)␤
19:19 pmichaud bah.
19:19 TimToady I suspect LTM is borrowing a bogus comma operator as an infix
19:20 colomon TimToady: Wondered about the , after you safk
19:20 TimToady std: /\s*-/
19:20 p6eval std 29049: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/' at /tmp/ct712ZAwuq line 1:␤------> [32m/\s*[33m⏏[31m-/[0m␤    expecting any of:␤   quantmod␤ regex atom␤       regex_infix␤      standard stopper␤ terminator␤     ws␤FAILED 00:01 105m␤
19:21 diakopter nqp: token { \, }
19:21 p6eval nqp: Confused at line 1, near "token { \\,"␤current instr.: 'parrot;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/cheats/hll-grammar.pir:197)␤
19:21 pmichaud nqp essentially decided that <infixish> and <termish> needed to be parameterized in the operator precedence parser
19:21 spinclad nqp:  token xyz { \s*\, }
19:21 p6eval nqp:  ( no output )
19:21 TimToady it's quite possible that Regex should not be inheriting from STD
19:21 pmichaud instead of being hard-coded
19:21 diakopter nqp: token foo { , }
19:21 pmichaud and yes, Regex definitely does not inherit from STD
19:21 p6eval nqp: Confused at line 1, near "token foo "␤current instr.: 'parrot;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/cheats/hll-grammar.pir:197)␤
19:21 pmichaud (in nqp)
19:22 diakopter nqp: token foo { \\, }
19:22 p6eval nqp: Confused at line 1, near "token foo "␤current instr.: 'parrot;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/cheats/hll-grammar.pir:197)␤
19:22 pmichaud nqp:  token foo { \, }
19:22 p6eval nqp:  ( no output )
19:22 TimToady I guess that's a hangover from before I had language braids
19:22 pmichaud TimToady: I find it much cleaner if they're separate.
19:22 TimToady feels kinda like a hangover...
19:22 * diakopter left hanging
19:27 pmichaud jnthn: okay, we can work around this little buglet
19:27 pmichaud no :method flag needed ('phew!')
19:28 jnthn pmichaud: heh, add_sub silently fails?!
19:28 jnthn :-)
19:28 pmichaud yes, it silently fails
19:28 pmichaud well, maybe not
19:28 jnthn Helpful. :-/
19:28 pmichaud actually, P6object puts a push_eh/pop_eh block around it
19:28 pmichaud so it could be failing and we just never hear it
19:28 jnthn Ah, OK.
19:28 jnthn possibly.
19:28 jnthn Anyway, glad there's a solution.
19:28 pmichaud oh, and there's a bug there in p6object on the eh handling :)
19:28 pmichaud thrilling.
19:29 jnthn Do we *need* the eh?
19:29 pmichaud we did at one time, yes.
19:29 jnthn I seem to recall there was some oddness there.
19:29 jnthn I can't recall what though.
19:29 pmichaud I don't know if that's still the case.  I'd had to change much more than that without knowing how it might affect deprecation
19:29 pmichaud s/had/hate
19:29 jnthn true.
19:31 NorwayGeek joined #perl6
19:31 pmichaud okay, looks like I just need a p6object fix.  easy-peasy.
19:34 desertm4x joined #perl6
19:34 jnthn Yay
19:34 jnthn pmichaud++
19:35 * jnthn loves eating onions...but hates chopping them
19:38 NorwayGeek joined #perl6
19:42 zloyrusskiy joined #perl6
19:49 moritz_ you can cook them whole ;-)
19:50 TimToady or eat them raw whole
19:50 jnthn ...yes, but my mouth isn't quite big enough to take the whole cooked onion. :-P
19:50 TimToady get perl onions
19:51 moritz_ jnthn: well, cutting them isn't that bad once they're cooked
19:51 jnthn moritz_: oh, true. :-)
19:51 lisppaste3 joined #perl6
19:53 pmichaud now to make sure my change doesn't break existing rakudo master :)
19:54 pmichaud (and that existing rakudo master isn't broken in general...)
19:55 jnthn :-)
19:56 pmichaud it's been a while since we bumped PARROT_REVISION
19:56 TimToady I'm getting one of those headaches you get when you realize you need a major refactor...
19:56 TimToady I need to move most of STD methods into STD::P6
19:56 TimToady and leave just the service routines in STD
19:56 pmichaud TimToady: just adopt rakudo's grammar as the new STD.  :-)
19:56 pmichaud (its new one, of course)
19:57 pmichaud anyway, I'm joking of course at this point -- but I do see a lot of very nice convergence ahead for the two grammars :)
19:58 TimToady well there are things I *do* want to inherit in Regex and in P5, such as EXPR
19:58 pmichaud right
19:59 pmichaud NQP has a base "HLL::Grammar" class that provides an EXPR suitable for many languages
19:59 pmichaud and then the various grammars for regexes, nqp, perl6, etc. all inherit from it
19:59 pmichaud (currently the EXPR is written in PIR, but I expect it to translate to NQP)
19:59 TimToady that's more or less what STD is supposed to do
20:00 pmichaud HLL::Grammar also provides basic number and quoting rules, since those are common to languages too
20:01 pmichaud I haven't quite convinced myself that Quote deserves to be its own grammar/language yet.   It might for Perl 6, but other languages probably want it to be part of MAIN
20:01 TimToady I can finesse it with any number of classes and roles, but not until I detangle STD from STD::P6
20:02 pmichaud Well, I shall watch the refactor closely :)
20:02 TimToady so I deserve my headache :)
20:02 pmichaud I'll also chime in if I have any helpful ideas
20:04 rgrau joined #perl6
20:20 jnthn pmichaud: OK, I'm back and can hack on stuff some more. Any priorities?
20:20 justatheory joined #perl6
20:22 pmichaud jnthn: not that I can think of at the moment
20:23 pmichaud I'm trying to get the builtin classes we have already done fixed up
20:23 jnthn pmichaud: OK, great. :-)
20:23 pmichaud (testing old rakudo == slow, though)
20:24 oZ] Off topic: Does anyone know of anything DBIx::Class-like in the works or working currently with perl6?
20:24 pmichaud in the works, yes.
20:24 pmichaud haven't heard about "working currently"
20:25 oZ] OK/.
20:25 moritz_ it partially works
20:25 oZ] (Minus the /)
20:25 moritz_ oZ]: http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/39686
20:25 masak joined #perl6
20:26 oZ] Huh.
20:26 moritz_ not quite DBIx::Class like
20:26 oZ] At least a look at how OO/ORM wrappers for SQL would look like.
20:29 pmichaud iirc, Tim Bunce is also heading up an effort for DBI-related stuff for Perl 6
20:29 pmichaud I haven't kept up with progress there.
20:31 moritz_ it's been mostly sleeping the last few weeks
20:32 oZ] I think I'm just trying to figure out how to get my hands dirty with perl6 without it being so much of a hassle that I give up. ;)
20:33 pmichaud jnthn: my plan for the rest of today is to finish cleaning up some of the Test.pm stuff and getting the base classes in place.  Tonight I'm going to write up a status report (also for my grant) and a plan for the upcoming week(s)
20:33 pmichaud tomorrow I'll likely just start tackling spectests
20:34 jnthn pmichaud: OK, sounds great.
20:34 pmichaud I have to go do school pickup -- bbi30
20:34 jnthn pmichaud: So basically, within reason, whatever I feel like putting back?
20:34 jnthn OK. :-)
20:34 pmichaud yes
20:34 pmichaud I plan to be playing with eval/repl/module import a bit more
20:34 jnthn OK, nice.
20:34 pmichaud but I'm not wanting to hold anyone back on working on things, so whatever feels "ripe" to you
20:35 jnthn :-)
20:35 pmichaud I still need a partial day to get hash and lazy list stuff all in place
20:35 pmichaud IO might be a good LHF
20:35 jnthn *nod*
20:35 jnthn Oh, that's true.
20:35 jnthn I'll look at that.
20:35 jnthn I'll do parametric roles another day. That fruit hangs higher.
20:35 jnthn It's not an evening fruit. :-)
20:36 masak jnthn: by the way, did you ever do a full Konventa booking?
20:37 jnthn masak: oh noes, I didn't
20:37 masak jnthn: I'm about to do one now.
20:37 jnthn masak: did you?
20:37 jnthn Oh, OK.
20:37 jnthn :-)
20:37 jnthn masak: 3 + 1?
20:37 masak jnthn: well, first I'll see if there really is a bug.
20:38 jnthn By seeing if it actually lets you book it? ;-)
20:38 masak yes.
20:38 masak of course.
20:38 masak I mean, I'm naturally curious. :)
20:38 jnthn Same. ;-)
20:39 jnthn masak: oh! The deal is not only cheaper, but includes some nom.
20:39 masak I know! it's weird.
20:39 masak I thought the 50 EUR/night deal was pretty good.
20:40 jnthn Konventa Seta - Single room, 4 nights, 19 Nov 2009 to 23 Nov 2009
20:40 jnthn Total price for booking: 111 EUR
20:40 jnthn *snicker*
20:40 masak
20:40 masak jnthn: I _did_ alert them to the problem...
20:40 jnthn Yes, I know!
20:41 jan_ joined #perl6
20:41 moritz_ masakbug!
20:41 jnthn Well, what to do.
20:41 masak my conscience is pure, mostly.
20:42 jnthn Impressively, it's managed to fill out the country code for Slovakia in the phone number box...but then completely failed to fill out the country box. :-)
20:43 jnthn LTA.
20:43 jnthn :-)
20:43 masak :)
20:46 masak "Thank you for your booking!"
20:46 jnthn lol
20:46 masak I've now, for all intents and purposes, used a 3-night deal to cover a 4-night stay. wtf.
20:47 moritz_ \o/
20:47 masak I'm beginning to think that my use of software actually causes bugs.
20:47 jnthn Where's their RT tracker? :-)
20:47 masak nowhere to be seen.
20:47 masak jnthn: we'll be arriving at the same time. that feels good if they choose to complain when we arrive.
20:48 masak jnthn: I don't mind paying for that extra night, but it's not always funny to get into an argument with your hotel on arrival abroad. :P
20:48 jnthn Oh, I don't mind paying for it either (and expect to be)
20:49 masak nod.
20:49 jnthn It's still a saving.
20:49 masak my receipt contains a number of contradictions.
20:49 jnthn And includes nom. \o/
20:49 masak "3 night stay" "pay only for 2", "4 nights".
20:50 jnthn :-)
20:50 * jnthn is amused
20:50 masak "offer includes: [...] VAT; Non-refundable" (hey, those are not offers)
20:51 jnthn :-)
20:51 masak "rich breakfast buffet every morning [...] 1x breakfast"
20:52 jnthn It's the same one. Every morning.
20:52 jnthn :-)
20:52 masak ewww.
20:52 jnthn lol
20:52 moritz_ you couldn't make good use of more than one breakfast each morning, could you?
20:52 masak moritz_: nono, it's clear from the table that it's 1 breakfast.
20:52 KyleHa joined #perl6
20:53 masak it's also clear that it's rich, and served every morning.
20:54 TimToady maybe it means you can eat there if you're rich
20:55 masak jnthn: allegedly, this is Czech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3oFc-phIBA&amp;NR=1&amp;feature=fvwp
20:56 masak jnthn: they've subtitled it in Swedish, and it's occasionally funny.
20:56 masak jnthn: "Jag anger att du mår bra!", for example. ("I indicate that you feel good!")
20:57 * jnthn Czechs it out
20:57 jnthn Does "hur" mean what I think it does? :-)
20:58 masak no. :)
20:58 masak means "how".
20:58 jnthn aww
20:58 jnthn :-)
20:58 masak the title, "Min man e kass!", means "My husband isn't any good!"
20:58 jnthn lol
21:00 * jnthn is amused
21:01 * jnthn wishes he understood Swedish more than a few words :-)
21:01 masak I'm done distracting you now. :)
21:01 masak that song may or may not be a good way to learn Swedish.
21:02 jnthn lol
21:02 jnthn My vocabularly can't get any worse.
21:03 jnthn oh noes...we fail to parse ternaries...
21:03 jnthn That's scary.
21:03 Patterner All I know I learned from http://www.slayradio.org/mastering_swedish.php
21:03 diakopter nqp: say(3 ?? 4 !! 5)
21:03 * jnthn delegates to pmichaud++
21:03 p6eval nqp: 4␤
21:03 jnthn Yeah, apparently that didn't make it into Rakudo.
21:04 diakopter rakudo-ng?
21:04 masak Patterner: that course is awesome.
21:04 moritz_ ng is a refractoring branch in rakudo
21:04 diakopter sigh.
21:05 diakopter I meant, "jnthn: do you mean rakudo-ng or rakudo?"
21:05 jnthn diakopter: ng
21:05 jnthn Det är rena fasan att se en fasan!
21:05 * diakopter cowers
21:07 masak jnthn: :)
21:08 masak jnthn: Swedish is broken.
21:08 jnthn masak: No more than any other natural language, surely. :-)
21:09 masak well, all natural languages have their specialties, it seems...
21:09 masak even constructed languages leave much to be desired. perfection is nowhere to be found.
21:09 pmichaud ternary isn't working in Rakudo?  I wonder what's up with that...
21:10 pmichaud I would've thought it'd come over from nqp-rx
21:10 Woodi masak: what about math ?
21:10 moritz_ rakudo: say((3 ?? 4 !! 5)
21:10 p6eval rakudo 929998: say requires an argument at line 2, near "((3 ?? 4 !"␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 2593)␤
21:10 moritz_ rakudo: say(3 ?? 4 !! 5)
21:10 p6eval rakudo 929998: 4␤
21:10 moritz_ pmichaud: please don't make empty say() a parse error in rakudo-ng, it gives LTA error messages
21:10 masak Woodi: math is ok, I guess. musical notes are very nice, too.
21:10 pmichaud moritz_: it's spec.
21:10 pmichaud std:  say()
21:11 p6eval std 29049: ok 00:01 104m␤
21:11 jnthn pmichaud: I figure you've more chance of working out quickly than I.
21:11 pmichaud std:  say
21:11 p6eval std 29049: ok 00:01 102m␤
21:11 moritz_ pmichaud: last I asked TimToady he said it doesn't neet to be compile time
21:11 jnthn say what? :-)
21:11 pmichaud okay, it *used* to be spec.
21:11 jnthn :-)
21:11 moritz_ sometimes the spec does change ;-)
21:12 jnthn class Whatever is Failure { ... }
21:12 jnthn ...really?
21:12 pmichaud jnthn: probably not any more
21:13 jnthn pmichaud: That's too bad, given how amusingly it reads. :-)
21:13 Su-Shee left #perl6
21:13 jnthn pmichaud: Can I just stick it in as class Whatever { } for now?
21:13 pmichaud jnthn: sure.
21:13 jnthn (Decided to put things in that'll let us parse IO.pm)
21:14 pmichaud something happened to unicode named parameters in master
21:14 pmichaud S02-lexical-conventions/unicode.rakudo aborted 5 test(s)
21:15 moritz_ it did so since the pcc-reapply branch
21:15 moritz_ or whatever it's called
21:15 pmichaud hmmm
21:15 pmichaud that feels like a regression
21:15 jnthn Some issue with named params where the names have unicode.
21:15 pmichaud checking
21:15 jnthn pmichaud: I don't know that it was pcc_reapply
21:15 jnthn pmichaud: I think it may have been my doing in the sig work.
21:15 pmichaud it might not have been... but that would be an easy explanation :)
21:16 jnthn pmichaud: Note that I don't run that test (too lazy to install ICU...)
21:19 dalek rakudo: 01c042f | pmichaud++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
21:19 dalek rakudo: Bump PARROT_REVISION to get p6object and other fixes.
21:19 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/01c042fe88248e8e6a650fe4691b17706b65a13a
21:28 pmichaud yay, method xyz is export now works
21:28 pmichaud > say (-3).abs
21:28 pmichaud 3
21:28 pmichaud > say abs(-3)
21:28 pmichaud 3
21:28 lambdabot Not in scope: `say'
21:28 lambdabot Not in scope: `say'
21:29 pmichaud afk for a bit
21:29 * masak glares at lambdabot
21:29 jnthn .oO( /kick lambdabot NOT IN CHANNEL: `lambdabot` )
21:36 __ash__ joined #perl6
21:39 japhb masak: now if only you had mutant powers and could shoot lasers or death rays from your eyes, then we'd be in business.  Of course, you'd have to remember not to keep melting expensive laptops ....
21:39 justatheory joined #perl6
21:40 masak japhb: I can't help thinking there's a context in which what you just said makes sense. :P
21:40 japhb "* masak glares at lambdabot "
21:40 masak oh!
21:40 masak :)
21:40 masak yes.
21:41 masak I think I prefer it like this, actually.
21:41 masak question: under which circumstances does $/ get reset to undef?
21:41 japhb That's the problem with async communication -- by the time you get a response, you've switched tasks and swapped out all your context
21:41 sasykes joined #perl6
21:42 moritz_ masak: unsuccessful match
21:42 masak japhb: true. but there are things I really like about async communication as well.
21:43 masak moritz_: what about entering a new block?
21:43 moritz_ masak: then the outer is used, afaict
21:43 japhb efficient for carryon on multiple discussions at once, for one ...  :-)
21:43 japhb er carrying on
21:43 moritz_ rakudo: 'a' ~~ /./; { say $/ }
21:43 p6eval rakudo 01c042: a␤
21:45 moritz_ in an outer scope it's of course till undef
21:45 moritz_ rakudo: { 'a' ~~ /./ }; say $/
21:45 p6eval rakudo 01c042: Use of uninitialized value␤␤
21:47 masak moritz_: I have what I think is a strange case of $/ getting re-set when entering a block. I'm trying to reproduce it with a small enough example.
21:49 masak rakudo: regex foo { foo }; my @a = /<foo>/ => { say $<foo> }; for @a -> $f { my ($r, &d) = $f.kv; if "foo" ~~ $r { d() } }
21:49 p6eval rakudo 01c042: Method 'postcircumfix:{ }' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤
21:49 masak note 'Failure', which means that it can't index $<foo>
21:49 jnthn pmichaud: The error I get for the ?? !! is "Method 'ternary' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6;Grammar'"
21:49 masak (because $/ is undef)
21:49 jnthn pmichaud: I don't see any good reason why yet, or anything missing from the NQP grammar, though.
21:50 masak rakudo: regex foo { foo }; my @a = /<foo>/ => { say $/.WHAT }; for @a -> $f { my ($r, &d) = $f.kv; if "foo" ~~ $r { d() } }
21:50 p6eval rakudo 01c042: Failure()␤
21:50 masak jnthn: maybe the error is in the OP parser?
21:50 moritz_ masak: it inherits $/ from the lexical scope, not from the dynamic one
21:51 moritz_ masak: don't know if that's supposed to be the case
21:51 masak how does one find out whether that's supposed to be the case?
21:51 moritz_ by reading the spec
21:52 masak oh, allright :)
21:53 moritz_ S02 says
21:53 moritz_ Any remaining special variables will be lexically scoped.
21:53 moritz_ This includes C<$_> and C<@_>, as well as the new C<$/>,
21:53 dalek book: 5b115b5 | chromatic++ | src/multi-dispatch.pod:
21:53 dalek book: Edited multidispatch chapter, mostly for prose.
21:53 dalek book: Improved some formatting.
21:53 moritz_ hrm
21:53 dalek book: Left some editorial notes for authors.
21:53 jnthn masak: Maybe, but we share that with NQP.
21:53 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/5b115b5d35296b38624c56bdf64d27a2678b2142
21:53 masak jnthn: oh, true.
21:53 jnthn masak: So I've no idea whoz OP.
21:54 masak moritz_: so the bug is in me, not in Rakudo?
21:54 moritz_ masak: not quite sure
21:54 masak why not?
21:54 moritz_ because I haven't found the explicit definition of the scoping rules for $/
21:54 moritz_ if it's OUTER:: or CALLER::
21:55 masak moritz_: S05 says 'C<$/>, which is a contextual lexical declared in the outer subroutine'
21:55 masak does that help?
21:55 masak 'contextual' seems to indicate CALLER::
21:56 moritz_ not quite
21:56 moritz_ to me that implies that each routine has an implict '$/ is context' declaration
21:56 moritz_ but your example doesn't have a routine
21:56 moritz_ just blocks
21:57 masak aye.
21:57 masak I think that's why I expected it to work.
21:57 Wolfman2000 joined #perl6
21:57 masak but perhaps it's explanation enough that the block uses a different $/ than the ~~.
21:58 moritz_ this is all very confusing to me, and covered in far too many different places of the spec
21:58 moritz_ let's just wait for pmichaud to clear it up, I'm sure he knows the scoping rules better
21:58 Wolfman2000 Afternoon. masak: I'll be starting on more of my pastebin work soon.
21:59 masak Wolfman2000: cool! I'm having a Temporal Tuesday, so I'll probably not work on the pastebin tonight.
21:59 masak Wolfman2000: but you go ahead.
21:59 Wolfman2000 ...it's Monday at your place?
22:00 pmichaud what's the question?
22:00 masak Wolfman2000: no. how did you arrive at that? :)
22:01 Wolfman2000 masak: I thought you were going to a Temporal on Tuesday.
22:01 masak pmichaud: in my evals above, why do I get Failure?
22:01 Wolfman2000 When today at my time is Tuesday
22:01 masak Wolfman2000: right. that's why I'm doing it today. :)
22:01 masak because today is Tuesday.
22:01 pmichaud masak: each block gets its own $/
22:02 Wolfman2000 ...then I may as well know. What IS a Temporal?
22:02 masak each block, even.
22:02 pmichaud currently rakudo treats match as being a rebind of lexical $/, not an assignment
22:02 masak Wolfman2000: it's a module with DateTime stuff in it.
22:02 masak pmichaud: makes sense, I think.
22:02 pmichaud so, in    { 'a' ~~ /./ };  say $/;
22:02 pmichaud the inner match isn't affecting the outer $/
22:02 pmichaud I'm not sure if it should or not.
22:02 jaffa8 joined #perl6
22:03 Wolfman2000 ah. I'm using DateTime on the pastebin myself. I'd use DateTime::Format::MySQL, but it won't install on Feather due to hard coded man page installation. :(
22:03 pmichaud istr that matches rebind $/, not assign to them.
22:03 jaffa8 hi
22:03 jaffa8 how come do you have time for this
22:03 jaffa8 ?
22:03 moritz_ jaffa8: we take the time for this
22:03 Wolfman2000 jaffa8: english?
22:03 masak jaffa8: time for what? IRC?
22:03 jaffa8 yes
22:03 jaffa8 being here
22:03 jaffa8 talking
22:04 jaffa8 thingking
22:04 jaffa8 discussing
22:04 masak jaffa8: that's the way we communicate with each other.
22:04 moritz_ pmichaud: but should a block default to the OUTER::$/ or the CALLER::$/?
22:04 masak jaffa8: I have time for it because I only work 50%, because I want to do Perl 6.
22:04 jaffa8 What do you work?
22:04 pmichaud blocks default to OUTER::$/
22:04 pmichaud but a rebind breaks that, of course.
22:05 masak jaffa8: I don't know why, but I'd rather not discuss that right now.
22:05 masak jaffa8: I usually have no problem discussing personal details, but I think your question was kinda sudden.
22:05 jaffa8 you do know why.... well....
22:05 masak jaffa8: I'd rather stay on topic for now.
22:07 Wolfman2000 masak: Unsure what the topic is at this point.
22:07 masak Wolfman2000: $_
22:07 moritz_ Wolfman2000: Perl 6
22:08 moritz_ masak: based on pmichaud++'s expectation I think rakudo behaves correctly
22:08 Whiteknight joined #perl6
22:08 masak moritz_: me too.
22:08 moritz_ masak: and the correct solution is to pass $/ as a formal parameter to the block
22:08 masak moritz_: that's what I eventually did.
22:09 jaffa8 Have you concentrated on compilation speed issues lately?
22:09 moritz_ no
22:10 pmichaud yes
22:10 masak jaffa8: if you're interested in what's on the agenda for Rakudo, have a look at docs/ROADMAP.
22:10 * pmichaud has concentrated on compilation speed issues a bit.  rewrote the regex engine to make it easier to do that, too :)
22:10 jaffa8 masak: I do not know why but I like to ask questions personally.
22:11 Wolfman2000 jaffa8: I ask questions a lot. Nothing to be ashamed of.
22:11 masak jaffa8: aye. :) and usually, that's ok with me.
22:11 moritz_ jaffa8: that's usually fine, if the number of personal question stays low compared to number of on-topic questions
22:11 masak jaffa8: but tonight I clammed up. sorry. :)
22:11 moritz_ just as it's fine by masak not to discuss some of them
22:12 jaffa8 you know it is suprising that compilation is that slow.
22:12 masak jaffa8: not really.
22:12 masak jaffa8: it's surprising that it is that fast. :)
22:13 pmichaud I'm certainly surprised at times :)
22:13 jaffa8 50 lines per second?
22:13 moritz_ if you know what's really going on under the hood, you'd be surprised that it ever finishes
22:13 spinclad jaffa8: we could add a couple more layers of overhead if you like
22:13 Wolfman2000 masak: We may be in friendly competition here, but...I'm not going to be stubborn and ignore your advice if you have a good idea. http://i37.tinypic.com/2nve4a1.png  That's what my entry page looks like so far.
22:14 masak Wolfman2000: oh, friendly competition means sharing.
22:14 masak Wolfman2000: looks nice. Cayalyst, I see?
22:14 Wolfman2000 masak: Yes.
22:15 Wolfman2000 If this is going to be a perl pastebin, may as well use a perl program.
22:15 jaffa8 I have a theory... is the parson recursive descent based?
22:15 jaffa8 =parser.
22:15 pmichaud it's both recdescent and bottom-up
22:15 stephenlb joined #perl6
22:15 masak jaffa8: nice theory, though. it shows you know a bit about parsers. :)
22:15 * justatheory is nice
22:16 * masak pats justatheory
22:16 * justatheory purrs
22:16 masak :)
22:16 solarion joined #perl6
22:17 jaffa8 you have not profiled the code yet I guess.
22:17 moritz_ bad guess
22:17 pmichaud a small bit of profiling.  the tools for profiling haven't been really available yet.
22:17 jaffa8 to figure what is responsible for the bulk of the ""spped"
22:18 pmichaud the bulk of the expense is likely the method call overhead that parrot imposes
22:18 pmichaud the new regex design is able to inline a lot of that, though (as soon as I'm convinced that's where a big costs lies)
22:18 masak pmichaud++
22:18 jaffa8 so you do not know.
22:19 pmichaud right now our focus is on "runs correctly" more than "runs fast"
22:19 Wolfman2000 I also support making it run right first.
22:20 masak me too!
22:20 masak it's been quite a ride so far. :)
22:20 masak I care about speed, but I care more about seeing Perl 6 come alive.
22:20 pmichaud the next couple of weeks should be a nice ride, too.  :)
22:20 masak I don't doubt it. :)
22:20 jaffa8 you mean bumpy
22:21 pmichaud bumpy, yes, but also fun
22:21 spinclad hugme: hug jaffa8
22:21 * hugme hugs jaffa8
22:21 masak spinclad: you beat me to it! :)
22:21 masak hugme: hug jaffa8
22:21 * hugme hugs jaffa8
22:24 jnthn pmichaud: Added a few more little pieces.
22:24 pmichaud jnthn: do you have any idea what 07-ref.t was intended to test in the first place?
22:24 jnthn pmichaud: Nothing big, just little bits.
22:24 jnthn pmichaud: No idea.
22:24 pmichaud I'm thinking of taking it out.
22:24 jnthn pmichaud: And you know, after I fixed it, I realized two of the tests were todo'd!
22:25 pmichaud I'm thinking of taking out several tests that don't really seem to do much for us.
22:25 pmichaud (at the 01-sanity level)
22:25 jnthn pmichaud: Feel free.
22:25 jnthn pmichaud: The more important point is that it led me to fix True and False.
22:25 pmichaud I removed 'for' from Test.pm, so we really don't need it at the moment.
22:25 pmichaud yes, your fixes are awesome.
22:25 jnthn So it's served its purpose. ;-)
22:25 pmichaud I'm a little curious as to why you have one instance of  $*IN_DECL := 0;    when the rest of them are $*IN_DECL := ''
22:26 pmichaud but that's a minor nit :)
22:26 jnthn s/you/STD/ and your question becomes mine. :-)
22:26 pmichaud heh
22:26 pmichaud touche'
22:26 jnthn I don't know.
22:26 spinclad .oO( but... but... if True and False were borken... how could anything wrok? )
22:26 jnthn spinclad: Boolean logic is overrated.
22:26 pmichaud spinclad: rakudo has a tradition of having True and False do whatever we feel like.
22:27 pmichaud rakudo:  True = 5;   say True;
22:27 p6eval rakudo 01c042: 5␤
22:27 pmichaud :-D
22:27 * jnthn looks ill, then realizes this is fixed in ng :-)
22:27 Wolfman2000 pmichaud: How were you able to set "True" to 5 instead of "$True"?
22:27 pmichaud Wolfman2000: True is a constant
22:27 pmichaud well, "constant"
22:27 pmichaud so the compiler recognizes it as a bareword constant
22:27 Wolfman2000 ...why are you changing a constant then?
22:28 pmichaud and then passes that as the lhs to &infix:<=>
22:28 pmichaud and since the current master branch doesn't have good rw container handling, it happily does the assignment
22:28 pmichaud i.e., rakudo (master) doesn't really understand constants all that well
22:28 pmichaud it tends to want to treat everything as a variable.
22:28 pmichaud as jnthn++ said, this is fixed at a fundamental level in ng
22:28 spinclad ... *how* are you changing a constant ... is answered
22:29 jnthn pmichaud: I'll change that decl to ''
22:29 pmichaud jnthn:  +1
22:29 jnthn pmichaud: And hopefully STD adopts this. ;-)
22:29 pmichaud maybe change it in STD.pm, too :)
22:29 jnthn ooh...dare I? :)
22:29 Wolfman2000 jnthn: dare.
22:30 Wolfman2000 Far as I can tell, Perl 6 is still safe to be daring with. We have until April.
22:30 jnthn I haven't actually got it built locally. :-)
22:30 jnthn So I'd not know if I broked it. :-)
22:32 jnthn rakudo: my $foo; undefine $foo
22:32 p6eval rakudo 01c042:  ( no output )
22:33 jnthn rakudo: my $foo = 42; undefine $foo; say $foo
22:33 p6eval rakudo 01c042: Use of uninitialized value␤␤
22:33 pmichaud jnthn: oh, it would be nice to have   "my Int $a"  working again, if you wanted to work on that :-)
22:33 jnthn pmichaud: Oh, even if we only parse that we'll get a win.
22:33 jnthn (in terms of being able to parse a bunch of the setting)
22:33 pmichaud right
22:34 pmichaud and I'm not likely to get to it before tomorrow afternoon
22:34 pmichaud so, if you wanted to start, feel free :)
22:34 jnthn Well, I can make it parse easy enough, I suspect. :-)
22:40 jnthn pmichaud: defined.t passes again.
22:41 dalek book: 21fdcc7 | moritz++ | src/multi-dispatch.pod:
22:41 dalek book: [mmd] fix grammaro, and further discussion on one "=for author" note
22:41 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/21fdcc7c189762e1a151725ddb2341331957fbe8
22:41 moritz_ rakudo: my Int $x = 5; undefine $x; say $x.WHAT
22:41 p6eval rakudo 01c042: Failure()␤
22:41 moritz_ that looks...wrong
22:41 moritz_ shouldn't that still be an (undefined) Int?
22:42 fonzotic joined #perl6
22:43 payload joined #perl6
22:44 mathw moritz_: I would have thought so...
22:44 pmichaud right.  In order to fix that we really need the type information on the variable...
22:45 pmichaud jnthn: (undefined) ... ummmmm, interesting.  :-)
22:45 jnthn ;-)
22:45 pmichaud although "is ref" feels better whenever dealing with variables.
22:45 jnthn pmichaud: Yeah, it won't stay like that. :-)
22:45 jnthn pmichaud: I doubt.
22:46 jnthn pmichaud: Given the type info needs.
22:46 pmichaud oh?
22:46 jnthn pmichaud: Well, I guess I could shoot for
22:46 pmichaud I don't understand
22:46 jnthn pmichaud: What moritz_ said about suggests that
22:46 jnthn my Int $x = 42; undefine $x; say $x.WHAT; # Int
22:46 Jim__ joined #perl6
22:46 pmichaud right
22:46 pmichaud I believe that to be true
22:47 pmichaud but I believe that needs to be implemented in &infix:<=>
22:47 jnthn pmichaud: Right, so the undefine impl I checked in won't handle that. :-)
22:47 jnthn pmichaud: Oh.
22:47 pmichaud because   $x = undef    should probably do something similar
22:47 jnthn In that case, my undefine impl is Mary Poppins then. :-)
22:47 pmichaud it is.
22:47 pmichaud but I still think the $x param should be 'is ref'
22:47 * moritz_ wonders why undefine() needs to be a function of its own when $thing = undef does the same
22:48 moritz_ maybe a left-over from perl 5 and the undef() function
22:48 pmichaud I'm not certain about the $thing = undef semantic
22:48 jnthn pmichaud: It's only going to fail later on in infix:<=>
22:48 pmichaud jnthn: why?
22:48 jnthn Because that will also say "is it rw", no?
22:48 * jnthn thinks he's missing something
22:48 pmichaud yes, but iiuc   'is rw' has a somewhat different meaning than 'is ref'
22:49 pmichaud and whenever we're talking about modifying a container, I think 'is ref' is really what we want
22:49 pmichaud but I could be wrong about that
22:49 pmichaud anyway, I postpone that question to later for now
22:49 jnthn I was under the impression that "is rw" = "is ref" + container check.
22:49 pmichaud have to take daughter to fencing class
22:49 jnthn erm
22:49 jnthn rw check
22:49 jnthn OK. :-)
22:49 pmichaud I think "is rw" also coerces to a rw value if it can
22:49 pmichaud gotta run
22:49 pmichaud bbl
22:49 jnthn Oh.
22:49 * jnthn changes it to is ref :-)
22:50 jnthn ...and tries to work out what a coercion to an rw value means.
22:52 jnthn > my Monkey $x;
22:52 jnthn In "my" declaration, typename Monkey must be predeclared
22:52 jnthn std++
22:52 jnthn (stealing from std)++
22:53 jnthn (no built-in Monkey)--
22:53 alan___ joined #perl6
22:53 mathw hmm odd
22:54 jnthn mathw: The lack of monkey?
22:54 moritz_ jnthn: to me "coercion to an rw value" sounds like what autovivification does
22:55 jnthn moritz_: Ah, OK...that would make some sense.
22:55 jnthn Presuming we're passing in something vivifiable.
23:00 masak jnthn: waitwait, STD.pm has a Monkey built-in?
23:00 zaslon lolmasakhazblogged! masak++ 'November 10 2009 -- think of the children!': http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/39872?from=rss
23:01 jnthn masak: BTW, after listening a few more times, I think that "mi man e kass" is actually "nemame cas" = "we don't have time" or something like that.
23:01 masak jnthn: oh! makes sense. :)
23:01 jnthn masak: But I struggle to follow Czech anyway, let alone when it's sung in a throaty accent. :-)
23:02 masak jnthn: I like the word 'nemame'. I think I could have figured that one out, given a few seconds. 'cas' is obviously from Russian.
23:02 jnthn *nod*
23:02 jnthn What's a boll-parti? (parti I can guess)
23:03 masak jnthn: a 'ball party'. and no, it doesn't make sense. and it's not inherently dirty either, just nonsensical.
23:03 jnthn ah, OK. :-)
23:03 jnthn I wondered if it was some special Swedish type of event. :-)
23:03 masak 'party' as in political party, not a party that one throws.
23:04 jnthn oh?
23:04 jnthn OK.
23:04 jnthn Then I couldn't guess. :-)
23:04 masak the other type of party is called 'fest', from the (I guess) Germanic word.
23:04 moritz_ masak++ # NOT WANTing Temporal::DateTime.new(:date(Temporal::Date.new(:year(2010), :month(4), :day(1))), :time(Temporal::Time.new(:hour(0), :minute(0), :second(0))), :timezone(Temporal::Timezone::Observance.new(:offset(0), :isdst(False), :abbreviation(''))))
23:04 jnthn omgwtfplzno
23:04 masak moritz_: tell me about it!
23:04 * jnthn goes to read masak++'s most
23:04 moritz_ though of course :isdst(False) could be written as :!isdst
23:04 jnthn *post
23:05 masak jnthn: does 'most' mean 'bridge'?
23:05 masak moritz_: not in current Rakudo. :/
23:05 masak moritz_: there's an RT ticket about that.
23:05 moritz_ I know
23:05 jnthn masak: yes
23:05 moritz_ but in principle ;-)
23:05 jnthn masak: Damm! Now I know why I struggle to recognize rectangles...
23:05 masak :)
23:06 seanstickle joined #perl6
23:06 moritz_ German "Most" is actually must (the drink)
23:06 jnthn There's a drink called must?
23:07 masak oh yes.
23:07 moritz_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Must
23:07 masak jnthn: you'd like it. :)
23:07 jnthn masak: If I DateTime.new('omg srsly NOT a date'), what do I get?
23:07 moritz_ hopefully a fail()
23:07 masak jnthn: right now, a silent failure. I'm still mulling about that one.
23:07 masak yes, a fail().
23:08 masak see the source. http://github.com/masak/rakudo/blob/72fd37f7117461629a75807b447c0c0c5b707c4d/src/setting/Temporal.pm
23:08 jnthn masak: a fail('something here') isn't really a silent failure. :-)
23:08 jnthn moritz_: I Must try that!
23:08 masak jnthn: no? what is it, then?
23:09 jnthn masak: A soft failure.
23:09 jnthn masak: If I try and use the Failure you give back, it'll explode unless I check it properly.
23:09 masak ah. soft.
23:09 masak jnthn: I'm not sure I like that behaviour, though.
23:10 moritz_ it's the default perl 6 failure behaviour
23:10 masak jnthn: because what I most often do (in the tests) is try to call methods on the returned object.
23:10 jnthn masak: I've found TimToady tends to encourage soft fail semantics over hard fail.
23:10 masak jnthn: and then the failure error isn't triggered.
23:10 moritz_ it should be.
23:10 jnthn masak: That may be a Rakudo bug.
23:10 jnthn Erm
23:10 jnthn That *is* a Rakudo bug.
23:11 masak jnthn: I also think it's partly bad because a .new method should either return a new object of the given type, or die.
23:11 jnthn I think trying to call a method on a Failure that isn't known is meant to throw the exception within it.
23:11 japhb jnthn, how much magic is there in making fail work?  Is it a reasonable thing to add to NQP?  (It's certainly something I *want*, but I'm trying to stay within the design parameters for NQP here)
23:11 jnthn masak: Hmm. That is an interesting argument.
23:11 masak jnthn: that's why I'm leaning towards death, at least as a conservative first approximation.
23:11 masak hm. that didn't come out right. :)
23:12 jnthn japhb: Thing is, it needs some kind of Failure object (= now we need a standard library) and to get the throw-exception-on-dispatch semantics may well need a custom dispatcher.
23:12 moritz_ ;-)
23:12 masak s/death/using die()/
23:12 jnthn masak: lol :-)
23:12 moritz_ it's pretty easy to s/ « die » /fail/ later on
23:12 masak exactly.
23:12 moritz_ but it does make a difference for testing
23:12 masak nod.
23:12 jnthn It's still easy to s/fail/die/ :-)
23:12 japhb jnthn, OK, fair enough.  Too bad.  I always liked fail's ability to effectively be a return value and an exception at the same time.
23:12 * masak does that, for now
23:13 jnthn japhb: Yeah, it's a nice idea.
23:13 jnthn japhb: I think what it needs may go beyond what NQP can cleanly provide though.
23:14 japhb jnthn, yup ...
23:14 jnthn japhb: As always final call is pmichaud++'s though. :-)
23:14 japhb :-)
23:15 jnthn masak++ for working on Temporal :-)
23:15 masak it's fun work. and quite immediate, as opposed to other things I'm working on.
23:17 jnthn *nod*
23:21 jnthn .oO( phew, git commit --ammend saves my reputation again )
23:22 japhb masak: speaking of other things ... just a reminder that Plumage can make short term use of proto merging the installed_modules branch
23:22 jnthn Sheesh, we comitted so much today that http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commits/ng only has today's commits!
23:22 frettled masak++ keep on posting about stuff like that
23:22 jnthn (on the first page)
23:22 frettled jnthn: \o/
23:23 jnthn Alas, the next step is to put back variable trait decls, so I can do container types.
23:23 masak japhb: good to know. if it's only me working on the installed-modules branch, it'll take a while. if more hands decide to help, it'll go faster.
23:23 jnthn And that probably needs more branes than I can spare tonight. :-)
23:23 masak frettled: thanks. :)
23:23 frettled We almost nailed mst last week, I see.  He was only about 16 hours from falling short of the absolute 10-day deadline, muahaha.
23:25 pmurias joined #perl6
23:26 masak frettled: I have a feeling (based on what he's written in some blog posts) that he is very well aware of such deadlines.
23:26 frettled m-hm :D
23:27 payload joined #perl6
23:28 moritz_ is there an easy way to see when I last missed some deadline for the ironman thing?
23:28 masak define 'easy' :)
23:28 masak I sure wouldn't mind seeing a web app with everyone's status on it.
23:29 moritz_ without doing date arithmetic myself
23:29 masak preferably with a combination of progress bar and exact time left.
23:29 japhb masak: At the moment I'm too busy trying to replace proto to have the tuits to fix it.  ;-)
23:29 moritz_ and somhow I get the impression that ironman doesn't like my feed, and throws up dates and so on
23:29 masak japhb: sounds like you're doing what you should. :)
23:30 frettled moritz_: I think the automatic thingybob for providing you with the correct Iron Man avatar works.
23:31 moritz_ frettled: you mean the image?
23:31 moritz_ frettled: that doesn't tell me anything
23:31 frettled Though it appears that I haven't gotten my real Iron Man badge yet, even though I've been blogging for more than six months now.
23:31 frettled moritz_: it should change to a Paper Man if you miss a deadline.
23:31 moritz_ I can't even tell my status from looking at the badge
23:31 moritz_ because they are just in different colors, and I can't map color to material easily
23:32 hercynium joined #perl6
23:32 moritz_ maybe I'm just mentally impared
23:32 moritz_ and it also doesn't tell me when I last missed a deadline
23:32 frettled aha
23:32 moritz_ or which one
23:32 frettled I don't think the badge thingybob tells you that, no.
23:33 masak moritz_: you're lucky to have a badge! I'm on use.perl, which sucks a bit more every day. :(
23:33 moritz_ I don't put that badge on my blog because it contains nearly 0 information
23:34 frettled Paper man: http://ironman.enlightenedperl.org/munger/mybadge/male/hanekomu.png
23:34 masak but you could if you wanted.
23:34 frettled Iron Man: http://ironman.enlightenedperl.org/munger/mybadge/male/mst.png
23:34 frettled Somethingelse Man: http://ironman.enlightenedperl.org/munger/mybadge/male/masak.png
23:34 masak yay! I'm Somethingelse Man!
23:35 moritz_ i'm also paper man
23:35 moritz_ though I'm pretty sure that I blogged regularly for the last six weeks or so
23:35 frettled masak: I think it's cute that our blogs are at the top of the list on the planet, though.
23:35 masak frettled: that's bronze, whatever that means.
23:35 moritz_ that's why I'd like to know what went wrong
23:35 frettled masak: it's the one before Iron
23:35 masak frettled: woot.
23:36 frettled masak: maybe I should complain, I haven't missed a day, I even started first :)
23:36 masak I think we could put together a graphical-ironman-status web app on feather pretty easily.
23:37 frettled hmm, yeah
23:37 masak frettled: in that case, I think you should complain.
23:37 masak and sooner rather than later.
23:39 moritz_ there seem to be some spam submissions on the feed list
23:40 frettled Argh, no, it appears that I may have missed a submission by 35 minutes between September 13 and 23, or the post dates were wrong.  Hrm.
23:40 frettled Ah, well.  The main point is to be blogging about perlish things.
23:40 fonzotic left #perl6
23:40 frettled moritz_: oh?  Hms, that's not nice.  :(
23:41 wknight8111 joined #perl6
23:45 sjohnson 1heh
23:46 pmichaud back again
23:47 frettled On the Perl again
23:47 frettled Just can't wait to get on the Perl again
23:48 frettled The life I love is making Rakudo with friends
23:48 frettled And I can't wait to get on the Perl again
23:48 frettled (with apologies to Willie Nelson)
23:48 frettled Good night!
23:48 jnthn night, frettled
23:49 masak night, frettled
23:50 jnthn pmichaud: I'm done for the day coding wise.
23:50 pmichaud jnthn: okay.  around tomorrow?
23:50 jnthn pmichaud: The .once() thingy would be very cool to have for variable traits and so on.
23:51 jnthn pmichaud: Yeah, tomorrow should be good for me.
23:51 pmichaud jnthn: yes, it would.  I'll bump it up on my list.
23:51 pmichaud jnthn: hope you're getting some rakudo days in :)
23:51 jnthn pmichaud: Got some phone conf in the morning, about $new-work
23:51 pmichaud I suspect I'll grab some rakudo days as well, adding more new features into ng
23:52 pmichaud tonight is writing a blog report about what's been done so far
23:52 masak \o/
23:52 pmichaud I'd like to start tweeting our progress, but much of it doesn't make sense without the background about what 'ng' is :-)
23:52 jnthn pmichaud: But afternoon and evening are probably totally free.
23:52 pmichaud jnthn: sounds excellent
23:53 jnthn pmichaud: I've counted the time between yesterday and today that I spent on Rakudo as a Rakudo day.
23:53 jnthn It was more than enough between them to add up to one. :-)
23:53 jnthn I'm blogging about my hacking at the moment. :-)
23:53 pmichaud jnthn: +1
23:54 pmichaud I should probably count the .lineof work and stuff I did as a rakudo day.  It doesn't fall under the other grants.
23:55 jnthn Yes, for sure.
23:55 jnthn It was a massive win.
23:55 jnthn It's made an epic difference to my productivity since you did it.
23:57 pmichaud I'm curious to see how it affects spectest timings in master
23:57 pmichaud I should know tomorrow
23:57 pmichaud (since I just bumped PARROT_REVISION today)
23:57 jnthn Yes, that would be nice.
23:58 jnthn Since if it helps there, it'll help in ng too. :-)
23:58 jnthn When we get to the spectests being usefuller.
23:58 masak 'night.
23:58 jnthn night masak

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