Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-11-15

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:09 LylePerl joined #perl6
00:13 LylePerl Hi All
00:13 LylePerl Sorry for my long absense
00:13 LylePerl Anyone here?
00:15 oZ] Sorta. :)
00:16 LylePerl Hi oZ]
00:17 LylePerl The main reason I've no time at the moment is that I've started an MSc in Software Engineering
00:17 LylePerl part time
00:18 LylePerl Trying to get my part time hours in and keep my business going in the recession leave little time for anyting else :(
00:18 LylePerl Although an assignment has come up that I've been able to mostly base around Perl :)
00:19 LylePerl Part of the assignment is future trends, I'm hunting out reference material
00:19 LylePerl I've got Perl 6 and Parrot essentials
00:20 LylePerl But I'm assuming any academic journal entries, etc, will have been written by people here
00:21 LylePerl I'm hoping people might be kind enough to point me to them
00:23 LylePerl I know a lot of you check the IRC logs, so when you read this, if you can think of any reference link please post them
00:24 forb joined #perl6
00:25 LylePerl On a side note, I've been talking with several of the Profs at the University and I've managed to get them to agree to me doing a Presentation on Perl for Students
00:25 LylePerl If all goes well hopefully that'll become a regular thing and I can drum up more interest :)
00:29 oZ] That would be awesome, certainly.
00:30 oZ] I'm a #perl6 newb, though, so I'm of little help other than 'awesome'. :)
00:30 nihiliad joined #perl6
00:30 LylePerl Hi oZ], thanks for the positive feedback
00:30 pmichaud LylePerl: I don't know if there are many "academic journal entries", but there are plenty of blog postings
00:30 LylePerl I'm still a p6 newbie myself
00:30 pmichaud try planetsix.perl.org for a relatively up-to-date list
00:31 LylePerl hi pmichaud
00:31 pmichaud also see http://perl6.org for pointers to other current resources
00:31 LylePerl I thought that might be the case
00:33 LylePerl The challenge will be more convincing my examiner that those references are the most valid, than finding traditional academic 'peer reviewed' ones.
00:33 pmichaud speaking as a former college professor... yes, that will be a challenge.  :)
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00:34 LylePerl pmichaud, any tips?
00:34 pmichaud not off the top of my head, no.
00:34 pmichaud clearly there's a lot of 'peer review' that takes place in the Perl 6 world, it's just not refereed or highly academic
00:35 LylePerl That what I was about to say :)
00:35 LylePerl *pretty much*
00:35 pmichaud my suggestion would be to take Perl 6 features and relate it to published articles on those features
00:36 pmichaud in many ways Perl 6 is extremely forward looking and aims to be the first real 21st century programming language
00:36 LylePerl That's an excellent idea, thank you
00:36 pmichaud certainly there would be a lot of legitimate research and discussion about Perl 6's form of parsing, since it's quite a bit different from traditional parsing techniques
00:40 LylePerl I'm glad I was able to base with assignment on Perl. It's good to get back to reading up on something I love as opposed to all the Java/UML reading I've had to do
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02:03 spinclad LylePerl: I think there should not be great difficulty in establish a 'web of trust' among Larry, the AES docs, #perl6 and #parrot, perl6.org, STD, rakudo and other implementations, parrot, their respective developers, and various related presentations.
02:03 spinclad *establishing
02:06 spinclad *developers and their blogs
02:11 spinclad such that you can say for any given artifact that it has this place in the web of activity.
02:11 PerlJam LylePerl: have you heard of ometa?  http://tinlizzie.org/ometa/
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02:49 colomon pmichaud: was just thinking I could hack by the infix:<*> problem for Rat by creating Rat.new(Num, Num).  However, turns out Num.Int is NYI in ng either?
02:52 colomon I see in master, Num.Int looks to be in src/builtins/any-num.pir, but I don't understand the code well enough to translate it over to ng.
03:17 diakopter how would one get the memory address of an object in NQP?
03:17 diakopter (dear lazyirc,)
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03:25 Wolfman2000 ...don't think I'll be working on the website tonight. Got company now.
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03:33 pmichaud colomon: feel free to implement Num.Int :-)
03:34 pmichaud but I don't think there should be a Rat.new(Num,Num)
03:34 pmichaud (and the code that we have now doesn't send Nums to Rat anyway)
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03:35 pmichaud diakopter: pir::get_addr__IP($obj)   works
03:35 diakopter pmichaud: excellent; thanks
03:35 pmichaud (not sure if that's correct long-term... Parrot has been talking about changing it)
03:36 diakopter I was struggling with getting Q:PIR to grab a param
03:36 pmichaud params are just "find_lex"
03:36 diakopter ah
03:37 diakopter a little birdy sent me a patch for nqp-rx with a hook for emitting pastjs..
03:37 diakopter after fighting the Makefile.in for an hour, it works  \o/
03:38 diakopter hook/stub
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03:39 diakopter pmichaud: pir::get_addr__IP gave me -1229582980
03:39 diakopter intified, I guess
03:41 pmichaud yeah, intified.
03:42 diakopter that's fine; I won't use it as an array index; just a hash index..
03:42 pmichaud I've done that in a few places... works out okay
03:44 diakopter pmichaud: to add an arbitrary property/attribute to a pmc...?
03:44 diakopter (sorry for the n00bity)
03:44 pmichaud setprop
03:44 pmichaud for a property
03:44 pmichaud attributes are addattribute, but we don't use those in PAST
03:45 * diakopter finds http://docs.parrot.org/parrot/d​evel/html/src/ops/pmc.ops.html
03:49 diakopter to check for Null,   $pmc.isa(Null) ?
03:50 pmichaud pir::isnull__IP($pmc)
03:50 pmichaud Null isn't a builtin type
03:50 diakopter oh
03:50 pmichaud (at least, I'm not sure it is)
03:50 pmichaud I'm sure that Null doesn't have a protoobject :-)
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04:01 jeremiah1 perl6: my $x = "a"; if $x ~~ ("b", "c", "a") { say "yup" } else { say "nope" }
04:01 p6eval elf 29089: No viable candidate for call to multimethod infix__126_126($,$,$,$) at (eval 132) line 4␤ at ./elf_h line 5881␤
04:01 p6eval ..pugs, rakudo 7347ec: nope␤
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04:04 quietfanatic rakudo: class X {has $.x; submethod BUILD (:$.x) {} }; X.new
04:04 p6eval rakudo 7347ec:  ( no output )
04:05 quietfanatic This gives me "cannot assign to readonly variable in submethod BUILD ..."
04:05 diakopter ng: say(&say)
04:05 p6eval ng fc78cc: No such attribute '$!do'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Any;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤
04:05 quietfanatic putting $.x is rw changes it, but I shouldn't need that.
04:07 jeremiah1 perl6: my $x = "a"; if $x ~~ any("b", "c", "a") { say "yup" } else { say "nope" }
04:07 p6eval pugs, rakudo 7347ec: yup␤
04:07 p6eval ..elf 29089: Undefined subroutine &GLOBAL::any called at (eval 134) line 4.␤ at ./elf_h line 5881␤
04:09 quietfanatic 'nother one:
04:09 quietfanatic rakudo: module M {constant $DEBUG = 1}; say $M::DEBUG
04:10 p6eval rakudo 7347ec: Use of uninitialized value␤␤
04:10 quietfanatic This ought to be 1
04:11 pmichaud rakudo may still have constants as lexically scopped
04:11 pmichaud *scoped
04:11 pmichaud the spec changed on that relatively recently
04:11 quietfanatic But check this:
04:11 quietfanatic actually never mind
04:11 quietfanatic don't check this :|
04:11 quietfanatic pmichaud: okay, it's workaroundable for now
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04:29 diakopter nqp bug
04:30 diakopter hrm
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04:34 pugs_svn r29090 | lwall++ | [STD] unbreak checkyada
04:34 diakopter odd, I can't reproduce it in the small
04:42 * diakopter frustrated
04:43 dalek nqp-rx: ad79935 | pmichaud++ | src/PAST/Compiler-Regex.pir:
04:43 dalek nqp-rx: Adjust PAST::Regex literal matching to handle runtime literals, PAST::Val constants.
04:43 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/a​d79935b9512dab0056d2c1157dc0a8fe4ef5522
04:43 dalek nqp-rx: 26ad71a | pmichaud++ | src/HLL/Actions.pm:
04:43 dalek nqp-rx: Eliminate isaPAST in favor of Protoobject.ACCEPTS.
04:43 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/2​6ad71aff2750572dd55f920a83ba2aa9a46ced4
04:46 diakopter nqp: Foo::c('lala'); module Foo; my $a := ''; sub b () { say($a) }; sub c ($z) { $a := $z; b() }; Foo::c('hihi')
04:46 p6eval nqp: lala␤hihi␤
04:50 diakopter nqp: module Foo; my $a := ''; sub b () { say($a) }; sub c ($z) { $a := $z; b() }; Foo::c('hihi'); # pmichaud, this gives nullpmcaccess in print, when Foo is compiled into nqp.pbc as a dependency of Compiler.pir... but if I change my $a to our $a, all is fine & dandy... is this by design?
04:50 p6eval nqp: hihi␤
04:51 diakopter but it works fine in nqp evalbot
04:51 diakopter heh
04:52 diakopter "it works fine" -> it works with 'my $a' as well as 'our $a'
04:53 diakopter 'It looks like you're trying to write a compiler. Would you like me to help you with that?' -- Clippy, in Visual Studio 2010
04:57 pmichaud diakopter: looks like you might want/need "our" on those sub definitions
04:58 pmichaud looking
05:00 diakopter adding 'our' doesn't change anything
05:01 diakopter pmichaud: in case you haven't seen this... http://www.cs.cornell.edu/​Projects/polyglot/ppg.html  also TimToady
05:02 pmichaud I would expect it to work in both cases, yes.
05:02 diakopter hm
05:09 diakopter talk about rigid thinking: http://propella.blogspot.com/2​009/11/wooden-half-adder.html
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05:57 carlin Maybe I should update my rakudo so I don't have the restart the bots every day ...
05:57 japhb Now that cotto++ has given Parrot read pipes the ability to remember the child process exit code, how would this be exposed for qx()?  S28 says Perl 5 $? gets folded into Perl 6 $!, but I'm not sure of the details there.  What is the "proper" way to set $! in NQP-rx?
06:04 dalek nqp-rx: b99043c | pmichaud++ | src/Regex/P6Regex/Actions.pm:
06:04 dalek nqp-rx: Only auto-concatenate PAST::Regex literal nodes with non-PAST children.
06:04 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/b​99043c841c193c1d3537b4b13697cba2cf4e60e
06:04 dalek nqp-rx: 9c899a5 | pmichaud++ | src/Regex/P6Regex/ (2 files):
06:04 dalek nqp-rx: Switch P6Regex quoting to use HLL quoting.
06:04 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/9​c899a51d036fea4ddb0ea7e6ec8a1d8c97c5448
06:04 dalek nqp-rx: 45b57ff | pmichaud++ | src/Regex/P6Regex/ (2 files):
06:04 dalek nqp-rx: Allow some double-quoted arguments in subrules.
06:04 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/4​5b57ff7ee5e3ea434e7f7d3fc31c6ff2fa571c7
06:04 dalek nqp-rx: ba0fcdc | pmichaud++ | src/stage0/ (4 files):
06:04 dalek nqp-rx: Update bootstrap.
06:04 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/b​a0fcdc9f0c800815fbbad4f3cb1caca43f3dc7b
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06:52 diakopter pointme: mubot
06:52 pointme carlins's mubot is at http://github.com/carlins/mubot/
06:52 diakopter pointme: dalek
06:52 pointme Sorry, I don't know anything about that project
06:52 diakopter o
06:52 diakopter well, it's at http://github.com/Infinoid/dalek-plugins
06:55 diakopter nqp: my $i := 4; say("hi"~(++$i)~"hi")
06:55 p6eval nqp: error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n'␤   in file 'EVAL_1' line 14␤Null PMC access in concatenate_str()␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 0 (EVAL_1:6)␤
06:58 diakopter nqp: my $i := 4; say("hi"~++$i~"hi")
06:58 p6eval nqp: error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n'␤   in file 'EVAL_1' line 14␤Null PMC access in concatenate_str()␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 0 (EVAL_1:6)␤
07:01 diakopter nqp: my $i:=0; if ++$i { say($i) };
07:01 p6eval nqp: error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected COMMA (',')␤    in file 'EVAL_1' line 12␤
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07:03 spinclad nqp: my $i; ++$i
07:03 p6eval nqp: increment() not implemented in class 'Undef'␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 0 (EVAL_1:6)␤
07:03 spinclad nqp: my $i := 0; ++$i
07:03 p6eval nqp:  ( no output )
07:04 spinclad nqp: my $i := 0; say(++$i)
07:04 p6eval nqp: ␤
07:04 spinclad nqp: my $i := 0; ++$i; say($i)
07:04 p6eval nqp: 1␤
07:04 spinclad nqp: my $i := 0; 'Hi'~++$i; say($i)
07:04 p6eval nqp: error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n'␤   in file 'EVAL_1' line 14␤1␤
07:05 spinclad nqp: my $i := 0; "Hi {++$i}"; say($i)
07:05 p6eval nqp: error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n'␤   in file 'EVAL_1' line 14␤1␤
07:05 spinclad nqp: my $i := 0; say("{++$i}"); say($i)
07:05 p6eval nqp: error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n'␤   in file 'EVAL_1' line 12␤␤1␤
07:06 diakopter nqp: my $i := 0; 'Hi'~{++$i}(); say($i)
07:06 p6eval nqp: 1␤
07:06 diakopter heh
07:06 diakopter japhb's trick
07:07 diakopter japhb: hilite
07:07 diakopter nqp: my $i:=0; if {++$i}() { say($i) };
07:07 p6eval nqp: Null PMC access in get_bool()␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 0 (EVAL_1:5)␤
07:07 diakopter o
07:08 spinclad nqp: my $i := 0; say('Hi '~{++$i}()); say($i)
07:08 p6eval nqp: Hi ␤1␤
07:08 diakopter o_o o_O O_O O_o o_o
07:09 spinclad nqp: my $i := 0; say('Hi '~{++$i; $i}()); say($i)
07:09 p6eval nqp: Hi 1␤1␤
07:09 diakopter spinclad: do you know much pir/nqp?
07:09 diakopter (sorry if that's a dumb question)
07:09 spinclad nqp: my $i := 0; say('Hi '~{$i++}()); say($i)
07:09 p6eval nqp: Hi 0␤1␤
07:10 spinclad i have some reading knowledge from lurking
07:10 diakopter I have a pmc; I need to know whether it's an Undef
07:10 diakopter whatever that is
07:11 diakopter nqp's .isa fails on it
07:12 spinclad i start thinking about pir ops like pir::isnull__SIG
07:12 diakopter it's not null
07:12 diakopter it stringifies to ""
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07:13 spinclad i start browsing .pir files for a likely idiom
07:13 * diakopter cross-posts to #parrot
07:13 spinclad i believe i've seen it go by
07:13 spinclad excellent idea
07:14 spinclad i believe i'm out of handy clues
07:14 diakopter :D me2
07:16 spinclad (i wasn't meaning i thought isnull was _right_, just a first concrete association)
07:17 spinclad nqp: my $i; say(pir::defined($i))
07:17 p6eval nqp: The opcode 'defined_p' (defined<1>) was not found. Check the type and number of the arguments␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;evalpmc' pc 917 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:514)␤
07:22 spinclad (making stuff up isn't converging on an answer; better to actually find out)
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08:15 spinclad pointme: hugme
08:15 pointme Sorry, I don't know anything about that project
08:15 spinclad pointme: pointme
08:15 pointme Sorry, I don't know anything about that project
08:16 spinclad pointme: proto
08:16 pointme masak's proto is at http://github.com/masak/proto/
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08:39 spinclad pointme: help
08:39 pointme Sorry, I don't know anything about that project
08:41 spinclad pointme, hugme is at http://github.com/moritz/hugme/
08:41 spinclad pointme, help
08:41 spinclad pointme: hugme is at http://github.com/moritz/hugme/
08:41 pointme Sorry, I don't know anything about that project
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08:42 carlin pointme gets its information from proto's projects list
08:45 spinclad ah, thanks, wondered... iwbni one of the bots knew the bots as well, though as we don't need more than one of each installed anywhere, they might not fit proto's mandate
08:47 spinclad but as a project, if the author welcomes community improvements, they might
08:48 carlin So you mean "pointme: hugme" should produce a description of hugmme's functionality?
08:49 spinclad at least a pointer to the source, like other projects
08:50 spinclad description sounds like a worthy feature, too
08:56 spinclad //github.com/<author>/<project>/ seems to have a line of description, don't know yet how hard to extract.
08:57 spinclad a worthy feature if easy, or it interests you
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09:06 spinclad (i note now that hugme is in perl 5, so clearly lies outside of proto's scope)
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09:20 Su-Shee good morning.
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09:24 carlin pointme: hugme
09:24 pointme Hugme hugs people! And gives commit access to various repos. It's source is at http://github.com/moritz/hugme/
09:26 BinGOs is this thing web scraping ?
09:26 carlin hardcoded the descriptions, based loosely on frettled++'s blog post
09:26 BinGOs There is a Github API which would be so much better than fucking with scraping
09:26 carlin maybe one day I'll allow to learn
09:26 carlin *allow it to
09:27 carlin Doesn't do anything with github since a lot of the bots aren't hosted there
09:27 carlin pointme: lambdabot
09:27 pointme lambdabot is a karma bot. More information can be found at http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Lambdabot
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10:03 spinclad carlin++  # noo feechers
10:07 moritz_ good morning
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10:29 moritz_ ng: say (0.4).perl
10:29 p6eval ng fc78cc: No such attribute '$!do'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Any;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤
10:29 moritz_ ng: say (0.4).WHAT
10:29 p6eval ng fc78cc: No such attribute '$!do'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Any;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤
10:29 moritz_ ng: say 1
10:29 p6eval ng fc78cc: No such attribute '$!do'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Any;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤
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10:59 moritz_ ng: say 1
10:59 p6eval ng fc78cc: No such attribute '$!do'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Any;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤
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11:01 moritz_ ng: say 1
11:01 p6eval ng fc78cc: No such attribute '$!do'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Any;' pc -1 ((unknown file):-1)␤
11:01 * moritz_ doesn't understand it
11:03 moritz_ oh
11:03 moritz_ the error occurs when I run the installed ng
11:04 pugs_svn r29091 | moritz++ | [evalbot] the installed ng is broken, use the local executable for now
11:06 p6eval joined #perl6
11:06 moritz_ ng: say 1
11:06 p6eval ng fc78cc: "load_bytecode" couldn't find file 'Safe.pir'␤current instr.: '!use' pc 175149 (src/gen/core.pir:15824)␤
11:07 p6eval joined #perl6
11:07 moritz_ ng: say 1
11:07 pugs_svn r29092 | moritz++ | [evalbot] ng can't load Safe.pm yet, so omit that for now
11:07 p6eval ng fc78cc: 1␤
11:07 moritz_ \o/
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11:16 colomon ng: say (0.4).WHAT
11:18 p6eval joined #perl6
11:18 moritz_ ng: say (0.4).WHAT
11:18 moritz_ sorry for killing p6eval :-)
11:18 p6eval ng fc78cc: Rat()␤
11:18 moritz_ ng: say (0.4).perl
11:18 p6eval ng fc78cc: 2/5␤
11:19 kidd joined #perl6
11:23 colomon \o/
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11:34 moritz_ ng: say 1.0e0.WHAT
11:34 p6eval ng fc78cc: Int()␤
11:35 moritz_ .oO( ... )
11:35 spinclad ng: say 1.0/1.0.WHAT
11:35 p6eval ng fc78cc: No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'new'␤current instr.: '&infix:</>' pc 133227 (src/gen/perl6-actions.pir:11111)␤
11:35 spinclad ng: say (1.0/1.0).WHAT
11:35 p6eval ng fc78cc: No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'new'␤current instr.: '&infix:</>' pc 133227 (src/gen/perl6-actions.pir:11111)␤
11:35 colomon parse problem?
11:36 spinclad ng: say (1.0 / 1.0).WHAT
11:36 p6eval ng fc78cc: No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'new'␤current instr.: '&infix:</>' pc 133227 (src/gen/perl6-actions.pir:11111)␤
11:36 moritz_ nope
11:36 moritz_ 1.0.WHAT is tighter than infix:</>
11:36 colomon ng: say (1.0e0).WHAT
11:36 p6eval ng fc78cc: Int()␤
11:36 moritz_ Rat literals my only contain Ints
11:36 colomon well  bother
11:37 moritz_ ng: use Test; plan 1; dies_ok { die }, '1'
11:37 p6eval ng fc78cc: "load_bytecode" couldn't find file 'Test.pir'␤current instr.: '!use' pc 175149 (src/gen/core.pir:15824)␤
11:37 colomon though the e0 forced a Num
11:37 moritz_ yes, that's a parse problem
11:37 colomon test.pir is created by running make test
11:37 moritz_ ng: use Test; plan 1; dies_ok { die }, '1'
11:37 p6eval ng fc78cc: 1..1␤# Looks like you planned 1 tests, but ran 0␤
11:38 spinclad ng: say (1.0e1 / 1.0e1).WHAT
11:38 p6eval ng fc78cc: Rat()␤
11:38 moritz_ ok, it seems that dies_ok bails out in ng
11:38 moritz_ ng: die('foo')
11:38 p6eval ng fc78cc: foo␤current instr.: '&die' pc 7006 (src/builtins/control.pir:18)␤
11:38 moritz_ ng: try { die('foo') }
11:38 p6eval ng fc78cc:  ( no output )
11:38 moritz_ ng: try { die('foo') }; say $!
11:38 p6eval ng fc78cc: foo␤
11:39 * moritz_ changed the cronjob to build Test.pir
11:39 spinclad ng: say (1.0e-1 / 1.0e-1).WHAT
11:39 p6eval ng fc78cc: Num()␤
11:40 spinclad there it is
11:41 moritz_ I'm pretty sure that fixing dies_ok and eval_dies_ok would bring us back a few more spectests
11:42 spinclad (any e<exp> _should_ force a Num)
11:42 colomon for sure there's a test it rat.t it would help
11:42 moritz_ it's a LHF :-)
11:42 colomon (dies_ok, I mean)
11:43 colomon any idea how hard evak itsewlf would be to implrment?
11:43 colomon eval
11:44 colomon sigh
11:44 moritz_ it's commented out in Test.pm because of the Null PMC access regex check
11:45 moritz_ pushed.
11:45 moritz_ this brings us back at least t/spec/S06-signature/optional.t
11:46 colomon what is eval_exception?
11:47 moritz_ a sub defined in Test.pm
11:47 colomon i see
11:47 colomon does that work now?
11:47 moritz_ I think KyleHa++ took care of that part of Test.pm
11:47 moritz_ colomon: it works enough to get dies_ok and eval_dies_ok working again ;-)
11:48 colomon ng: say eval("!")
11:48 p6eval ng aee0d7: sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤
11:48 moritz_ ng: use Test; plan 2; dies_ok { die('foo') }, 'foo'; dies_ok { 1 }, 'lives';
11:48 p6eval ng aee0d7: 1..2␤ok 1 - foo␤not ok 2 - lives␤# Looks like you failed 1 tests of 2␤
11:53 moritz_ ng: say 'abcdef'.index('bc')
11:53 p6eval ng aee0d7: Method 'index' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6Str'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
11:53 colomon ng: say eval("1")
11:53 p6eval ng aee0d7: Could not find non-existent sub &eval␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
11:53 colomon that's what I'm talking about
11:53 moritz_ oh
11:53 colomon ng: say eval({ 1 })
11:53 p6eval ng aee0d7: Could not find non-existent sub &eval␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
11:54 moritz_ so eval_dies_ok is not actually working
11:54 moritz_ ng: use Test; plan 1; eval_dies_ok '1', 'foo';
11:54 p6eval ng aee0d7: 1..1␤ok 1 - foo␤
11:54 colomon that why I was surprised
11:54 moritz_ then I should partially revert my previous commit
11:55 moritz_ colomon++
11:56 colomon that's why I was asking how hard it would be to implement eval
11:57 colomon (it's blocking four or five tests in rat.t)
11:58 * moritz_ looks at master
11:58 colomon seems like it should either be very easy or nigh impossible  :)
12:00 moritz_ the .sub 'eval' in src/builtins/control.pir (master branch) looks... sophisticated
12:01 * moritz_ won't touch that, and leave it to pmichaud++, jnthn++ or any other daring soul
12:02 colomon maybe you could take a crack at Num.Int instead?  :)
12:02 moritz_ ok, how do I build a Num in ng? (for testing)
12:03 moritz_ ng: say 1e1.WHAT
12:03 p6eval ng aee0d7: Int()␤
12:03 moritz_ ng: say (1e1/2e1).WHAT
12:03 p6eval ng aee0d7: Rat()␤
12:03 moritz_ ng: say (1e1/2e1).Num
12:03 p6eval ng aee0d7: 0.5␤
12:03 moritz_ ng: say (1e1/2e1).Num.WHAT
12:03 p6eval ng aee0d7: Num()␤
12:03 moritz_ ng: say (1/2).Num.WHAT
12:03 p6eval ng aee0d7: Num()␤
12:04 moritz_ ng: say (1/2).Num.Int
12:04 p6eval ng aee0d7: Method 'Int' not found for invocant of class 'Num'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
12:04 colomon ng: say 1.Num.WHAT
12:04 p6eval ng aee0d7: Num()␤
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12:06 spinclad ng: say 1e-1.WHAT
12:06 p6eval ng aee0d7: Num()␤
12:06 spinclad ng: say 1e-1
12:06 p6eval ng aee0d7: 0.1␤
12:06 spinclad ng: say 1e-1.perl
12:06 p6eval ng aee0d7: Method 'perl' not found for invocant of class 'Float'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
12:06 spinclad ng: say 1e-1.PARROT
12:06 p6eval ng aee0d7: Float␤
12:07 spinclad ng: say 1e1.WHAT
12:07 p6eval ng aee0d7: Int()␤
12:07 spinclad ng: say 1e1
12:07 p6eval ng aee0d7: 10␤
12:07 spinclad ng: say 1e1.perl
12:07 p6eval ng aee0d7: 10␤
12:07 spinclad ng: say 1e1.PARROT
12:07 p6eval ng aee0d7: Integer␤
12:08 colomon writing Num.perl is tricky, imo
12:08 colomon rakudo has always gotten it wrong
12:09 moritz_ just take parrot's stringification, and attach an e0 if it doesn't contain an 'e' yet
12:10 colomon :)
12:10 spinclad do the .PARROT answers show lack of HLL boxing? parrot-level PMCs instead of P6 ones?
12:11 moritz_ not sure
12:12 * moritz_ finds that he can't write inline PIR anymore, due to lack of PIR knowledge
12:14 Su-Shee left #perl6
12:14 colomon moritz_: with current ng, can you determine if there is no e?
12:15 moritz_ colomon: you can use pir::index or so
12:15 moritz_ ng: say pir::index('foo', 'o')
12:15 p6eval ng 004361: 1␤
12:15 moritz_ ng: say pir::index('foo', 'f')
12:15 p6eval ng 004361: 0␤
12:15 moritz_ ng: say pir::index('foo', 'b')
12:15 p6eval ng 004361: -1␤
12:15 colomon moritz_++
12:16 moritz_ .oO( as surprising as it might be, regexes are not the only way to analyse strings :-)
12:17 spinclad ng: say 'foo'.split('').grep('o')
12:18 p6eval ng 004361: Method 'split' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6Str'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
12:18 moritz_ colomon: Num.Int pushed
12:18 spinclad ng: say 'foo'.comb('').grep('o')
12:18 p6eval ng 004361: Method 'comb' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6Str'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
12:18 colomon \o/
12:18 kidd joined #perl6
12:34 moritz_ ng: say 3.5.Num.Int
12:34 p6eval ng 004361: Method 'Int' not found for invocant of class 'Num'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
12:34 moritz_ ah, should rebuild in a minute
12:38 kidd joined #perl6
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12:40 szabgab good sunday
12:41 szabgab has anyone attempted to parse Matlab code using Perl 5 or Perl 5++ ?
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13:03 moritz_ szabgab: I don't know of any, but you could try to look at parrot's Languages wiki page, maybe sombody started a compiler for it...
13:03 moritz_ if so, the PCT regexes should also work in Rakudo
13:03 moritz_ or nqp-rx
13:06 kidd joined #perl6
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13:10 szabgab yeah I think I should have asked this on #parrot
13:12 kidd joined #perl6
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13:17 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
13:17 colomon good morning!
13:18 moritz_ pmichaud: eval() and thus eval_dies_ok would bring us back at least three spectest files
13:19 moritz_ in ng, obviously
13:19 pmichaud ok
13:19 moritz_ ng: say 1.5.perl
13:19 p6eval ng 268a8a: 3/2␤
13:19 moritz_ this time really ng ;-)
13:19 pmichaud eval's tricky, because of the need to preserve the lexical scoping
13:19 moritz_ how much of that trickyness is different from master?
13:20 pmichaud a bit, because the internal handling of lexicals has changed
13:20 pmichaud also the way we keep track of blocks has changed
13:20 pmichaud also I should probably write eval in a way that will help to fix the repl
13:20 pmurias_ joined #perl6
13:21 moritz_ ok, not so trivial then
13:21 zloyrusskiy joined #perl6
13:21 kidd joined #perl6
13:24 colomon You can easily reverse single commits in git, right?
13:27 yewenbin joined #perl6
13:27 colomon Errr... "neg() not implemented in class 'Rat'"   :O
13:27 colomon ?
13:27 colomon ng: say -1/2
13:27 p6eval ng 268a8a: neg() not implemented in class 'Rat'␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
13:28 pmichaud do we have &prefix:<->  defined yet?
13:28 colomon yes
13:28 colomon at least for Rat
13:28 pmichaud what does prefix:sym<->  say in src/Perl/Grammar.pg ?
13:29 colomon though I don't know for sure it works -- -$a.numerator might be a Num.
13:29 colomon src/Perl?
13:29 pmichaud src/Perl6, sorry
13:30 colomon { <sym> <![>]> <O('%symbolic_unary, :pirop<neg>')> }
13:30 pmichaud ah
13:30 pmichaud have to get rid of that :pirop
13:30 pmichaud it's converting all unary minus to a negation opcode
13:31 pmichaud (and we want it to be a subroutine call to &prefix:<->
13:31 colomon Just delete that second parameter?
13:31 pmichaud yes.
13:31 colomon trying
13:32 colomon weird
13:33 colomon the test-by-test list says "t/00-parrot/02-op-math   ok" but the test summary says it failed with non-zero exit status 1.
13:34 pmichaud try running it directly
13:34 colomon looks like prefix:<-> no longer works for Num.
13:34 pmichaud ./perl6 t/00-parrot/02-op-math.t
13:34 pmichaud prefix:<->  probably isn't implemented, then
13:34 pmichaud need to add that :-)
13:35 colomon one sec
13:35 pmichaud src/core/operators.pm
13:35 colomon It works for Rat, just not implemented for Num...
13:35 pmichaud right
13:35 pmichaud need to add it for Any
13:35 colomon looks like it works for Int as well.
13:35 pmichaud need to add it for Any :-)
13:35 colomon afk for a minute...
13:41 colomon back
13:42 colomon pir::neg__NNN($a) ?
13:42 pmichaud it's unary, so just __NN
13:43 pmichaud (returns a N, takes a N argument)
13:43 colomon compiling
13:43 colomon did not splode!
13:43 pmichaud fail FAIL.
13:44 colomon 02-op-math.t still fails...
13:44 pmichaud same error?
13:45 colomon no
13:45 colomon Could not find non-existent sub &postfix:<->
13:45 pmichaud oh
13:45 colomon looks like it's happening for say abs -14
13:45 pmichaud that looks like the prefix/postfix bug I had earlier
13:45 pmichaud okay, I'll fix that.
13:45 colomon groovy.
13:46 pmichaud the expression parser seems to get confused by repeated prefix ops
13:47 colomon oooo, and yes, -Int is not an Int.  Stupid operator bug.
13:47 colomon yet easily worked around once you know what is going on.
13:47 pmichaud how are we working around that one...?
13:49 colomon ( blah ).Int
13:49 pmichaud in the test?
13:49 pmichaud oh, in the code
13:49 pmichaud hmmmm
13:49 colomon In the core.
13:49 colomon That's why I asked about reversing git patches.
13:49 pmichaud are the workarounds being marked as cheats?
13:49 moritz_ git revert $sha1
13:49 colomon If I do it all as one git patch, it's easy to reverse.
13:49 moritz_ and then commit it
13:50 colomon I marked the entire batch at the beginning.
13:50 moritz_ so yes, easy
13:50 colomon but I didn't move them out of the core.
13:51 colomon BTW, just through a ton of rat.t with that workaround.  :)
13:59 ejs joined #perl6
14:04 colomon Have 65 passing rat.t tests here.
14:08 astrojp joined #perl6
14:10 jnthn 'lo
14:12 barney joined #perl6
14:17 colomon hello!
14:17 masak joined #perl6
14:17 masak oh hai, #perl6.
14:17 jnthn hi masak
14:18 masak yesterday I fell asleep before 10 o'clock in the evening.
14:18 masak I slept really well.
14:18 masak woke up at 9 this morning.
14:19 jnthn Yesterday I attempted to get an early night. In theory, I had time for 8-9 hours sleep before it was time to get up for church.
14:19 jnthn In the end I lay awake most of it and got like, 3 hours. :-/
14:19 jnthn So I'm pretty much useless for anything today.
14:19 masak :/
14:19 masak I was useless yesterday.
14:20 masak so I know how it feels. :)
14:25 * jnthn hands masak his Rakudo commit bit for the day :-)
14:25 masak oh, I wish. :)
14:25 masak I'm definitely not up-to-speed on ng.
14:26 ejs joined #perl6
14:32 masak though I wouldn't mind an update. :) which stage are you in? making the setting compile?
14:32 colomon masak: it's just like master except most stuff doesn't work.  :)
14:32 Su-Shee joined #perl6
14:33 payload joined #perl6
14:33 masak colomon: I was going to say, "so in other words, just like master", but I don't want to stand by that statement. :P
14:34 * masak laughs heartily at the MegaHAL bot on Twitter
14:34 masak "My mom does not support continuations, and according to Guido van Rossum, never will."
14:35 arnsholt *giggle*
14:43 araujo joined #perl6
14:46 moritz_ lol
14:55 kidd joined #perl6
14:59 qp_pq joined #perl6
14:59 qp_pq has Perl6 stolen a lot from Erlang ?
14:59 qp_pq cause I'm learning Erlang
15:00 jnthn masak: Yes, gradually trying to bring back bits of the setting, and noticing the spots we fail because other things that they depend on are still missing.
15:01 masak jnthn: oki. I've seen others jump in and contribute; maybe I will, too.
15:01 jnthn \o/
15:02 colomon masak: Think of it as a bug-rich target environment....
15:02 masak :)
15:02 masak colomon: you know just the right words to get me excited! :)
15:03 colomon :)
15:04 am0c joined #perl6
15:04 qp_pq I remember Perl6 had ++ on lists
15:04 qp_pq like @a ++ @b = reunion
15:04 qp_pq does it have --
15:04 qp_pq @a -- @b = @a\@b
15:04 qp_pq ?
15:05 lambdabot Maybe you meant: activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask . ? @ v
15:05 masak qp_pq: no, you join arrays by putting a comma between and having them flatten.
15:05 arnsholt qp_pq: Maybe not Erlang specifically, but Perl (both 5 and 6) is quite influenced by functional programming in general IMO
15:05 masak rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 3; my @b = 4, 5; say (@a, @b).perl
15:05 p6eval rakudo 7347ec: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]␤
15:05 ejs joined #perl6
15:06 qp_pq masak: and different ?
15:06 masak arnsholt: nod. map and grep are central to Perl, and they're from the fun world.
15:06 masak qp_pq: and different what?
15:06 masak oh, you want set minus!
15:06 qp_pq difference
15:06 jnthn masak: Much better than those things we stole from the boring world, eh? :-)
15:07 arnsholt masak: Indeed. And hyperoperators. Can you say higher order programming? =)
15:07 masak rakudo: my @a = 1..5; my @b = 2, 4; say (grep { not any(@b) == $_ }, @a).perl
15:07 p6eval rakudo 7347ec: [1, 3, 5]␤
15:07 masak jnthn: are you still at the dentist's? :)
15:09 qp_pq masak: yes but don't we have a - ?
15:09 masak qp_pq: yes, but it numifies its arguments.
15:10 masak qp_pq: Perl (and Perl 6) is operator-based. an operator generally does one thing, and does it well.
15:10 arnsholt There was someone in here talking about a Set class a while ago. Did anything more come from that?
15:10 masak arnsholt: well, the Spec has a set class.
15:11 arnsholt Oh, right. My spec coverage is sketchy at best
15:11 jnthn masak: No, just felt like filling the channel with bad puns. :-)
15:11 * masak groans
15:11 jnthn I thought somebody was working on Set.
15:12 jnthn But I totally forget who.
15:12 masak I once made a TPF proposal to work on Set and similar classes.
15:12 colomon I meant to try to get some work in on Set in the last couple of weeks, but have failed completely so far.
15:13 masak colomon: in what way?
15:13 masak not getting started?
15:13 masak running into actual problems?
15:13 colomon no, not actually doing anything.
15:13 colomon :)
15:14 masak oh, that reminds me.
15:14 masak I have a presentation to procrastinate. :)
15:14 colomon Not getting started.  Pretty much not having anything more than a notion that it might be done and I might be able to do it.
15:15 masak I think Set is under-spec'd.
15:15 arnsholt I agree
15:15 masak I'd like to find a number of good use cases that could drive the spec forward for Set and similar classes.
15:16 Psyche^ joined #perl6
15:16 arnsholt (Assuming S32 is the right one to look at)
15:16 arnsholt I looked at Set::Scalar on CPAN a while back. It's got some interesting features
15:17 arnsholt Might not be a perfect fit for a standard library class, but might be a place for inspiration
15:19 masak rakudo: my &*x
15:19 p6eval rakudo 7347ec: Method 'scope' not found for invocant of class 'PAST;Op'␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤
15:19 * masak submits rakudobug
15:19 masak arnsholt: I think some good ideas might be taken from the Java Collections Tutorial.
15:19 jnthn ng: my &*x
15:19 p6eval ng 268a8a:  ( no output )
15:21 jnthn ng: sub foo() { my &*x = { say 42 }; bar() }; sub bar() { &*x() }; foo;
15:21 p6eval ng 268a8a: 42␤
15:21 jnthn \o/
15:21 jnthn That'll be one we can close when ng lands then. :-)
15:21 masak wow. :)
15:21 arnsholt masak: Excellent idea
15:21 masak jnthn: but you can't do the call inside bar as 'x()', can you?
15:22 arnsholt And perhaps even the java.util.Set javadoc
15:22 jnthn masak: Hmm. I'd sorta expect not.
15:22 jnthn masak: You normally ahve to explicitly say you want to go hunting down the dynamic scope.
15:22 masak jnthn: yeah, me too. just asking.
15:22 masak I can see how it would be a mistake to allow that.
15:24 jnthn Yeah, I think I agree. :-)
15:25 * jnthn realizes that today is not the day to read http://scg.unibe.ch/archive/pape​rs/Duca05ySafeMetaclassTrait.pdf
15:29 am0c joined #perl6
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15:35 masak ng: module M {constant $DEBUG = 1}; say $M::DEBUG
15:35 p6eval ng 268a8a: Confused at line 1, near "say $M::DE"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:300)␤
15:35 masak rakudo: module M {constant $DEBUG = 1}; say $M::DEBUG
15:35 p6eval rakudo 7347ec: Use of uninitialized value␤␤
15:35 masak anyone know if the above one is in RT?
15:35 jnthn ng: $M::DEBUG
15:35 p6eval ng 268a8a: Confused at line 1, near "$M::DEBUG"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:300)␤
15:36 pmichaud I'm not sure ng is far enough along that we should be filing rt tickets for it yet.
15:36 jnthn masak: Certainly, that Rakudo's constants impl is lagging the spec has come up plenty of times.
15:36 jnthn pmichaud: I think masak++ meant the issue in Rakudo master.
15:36 pmichaud ah, in rakudo master
15:36 pmichaud yeah, there we know that we lag the spec
15:36 jnthn (Constants are still lexically scoped.)
15:36 masak yes, but does RT know it?
15:37 jnthn masak: I don't know - I just know it's come up multiple times before.
15:37 masak so, probably.
15:37 jnthn Likely.
15:37 masak almost certainly.
15:37 jnthn Môže byť. :-)
15:38 * masak likes reading Slovak and understanding it :)
15:38 jnthn I manage that trick once in a while too. :-)
15:39 masak jnthn: also. the c in 'nemame cas' should have a hat, right?
15:39 jnthn masak: Right.
15:39 masak jnthn: it kinda bothered me in the back of my mind after you'd mentioned it, until I figured out that it should.
15:40 jnthn masak: Yes, I tend to miss out those things when typing most of the time...
15:40 masak understandable.
15:41 jnthn masak: It's not even just me being lazy - a lot of natives drop them on irc and in emails too. :-)
15:41 masak nod. my IRC nick is an example of such an ASCIIfication. :)
15:41 masak though I'm not a Slovak native, but still.
15:41 nihiliad joined #perl6
15:42 jnthn Native of langauge with non-ASCII chars. :-)
15:42 jnthn Well, that's most of the world, I guess. :-)
15:42 masak hugme: hug Unicode
15:42 * hugme hugs Unicode
15:43 masak jnthn: I'm pretty sure it's most of the world, yes. China and India contribute a billion people each. you just need another billion, which shouldn't be hard to find.
15:45 pmichaud shouldn't be... much of europe falls outside of ASCII :)
15:45 jnthn Much of South America too, I guess.
15:46 jnthn Oh, and then there's that small country: Russia. :-)
15:46 arnsholt I can't think of many languages apart from English that get by with just ASCII
15:47 jnthn American, Australian.
15:47 jnthn Oh, wait.
15:47 masak :)
15:47 arnsholt And if you wanna write a somewhat educated English, you're going to want accents as well
15:47 jnthn Huh? :-)
15:48 arnsholt Well, I'm in a café at the moment =p
15:48 jnthn Clearly I've not been educated. :-)
15:48 masak yes, it's naïve ti think otherwise.
15:48 masak s/ti/to/
15:49 pmurias joined #perl6
15:49 jnthn I'm struggling to think of other European languages that even fit within ASCII though.
15:49 masak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List​_of_English_words_with_diacritics
15:50 masak heh, what, "Filmjölk" is an English word? :)
15:50 jnthn "Many of these spellings are so rare that they cannot be said to be part of the standard language."
15:50 jnthn masak: I don't immediately recognize it as one...
15:50 masak thought so.
15:50 jnthn .oO( a joke from a film? )
15:50 arnsholt jnthn: It's Swedish =)
15:51 jnthn "fermenting cow's milk with a variety of bacteria"...sounds appertizing. :-/
15:51 masak oh, I should have said 'háček' (or 'caron') before about the thing on the c, and not 'hat'.
15:52 masak jnthn: it's a staple product in Sweden.
15:52 masak many people have it for breakfast.
15:52 jnthn masak: It looks like you probably could use it to attach bits of paper, yes...
15:52 masak hrm. :)
15:52 jnthn masak: We call it a mekcen in Slovak, fwiw. :-)
15:53 masak oki.
15:53 jnthn erm, where the c has a mekcen on it. :-)
15:53 masak I guessed as much. :)
15:53 jnthn .oO( Next Slovak class: BTW, did you know mekcen is recursively defined? )
15:53 rfordinal joined #perl6
15:54 masak :)
15:54 masak that's permissible in languages.
15:54 jnthn Filmjölk looks, like, healthy. :-)
15:54 colomon ng: say 1 + 1i
15:54 p6eval ng 268a8a: Could not find non-existent sub &fail␤current instr.: 'perl6;Complex;_block2489' pc 168885 (src/gen/core.pir:13397)␤
15:55 jnthn Wow. We fail to fail. :-)
15:55 masak jnthn: I could bring a packet to Riga if you want. :)
15:55 colomon see, masak?  a target-rich environment, just like I said.  :)
15:55 masak colomon: yes, but I'm not allowed to submit those bugs! :)
15:55 am0c__ joined #perl6
15:56 masak that's just teasing.
15:56 colomon no, you have to fix them.
15:56 jnthn masak: Mmm...well, I guess I like other fermented products... :-)
15:56 colomon or badger jnthn and pmichaud until they do.
15:56 masak jnthn: I'd have to figure out how to transport it. that might be interesting.
15:56 jnthn http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/
15:56 colomon jnthn: why is one of the three Complex infix:<+>'s commented out?
15:57 jnthn colomon: Probably because it causes a compilation fail when uncommented.
15:57 colomon hmmm... let me see
15:57 jnthn colomon: It's either because it uses my ($a, $b) = ... or private method calls.
15:58 jnthn Or at least, thow are the two things on my list of "what I gotta do to fully compile Complex"
15:58 colomon weird.
15:58 jnthn Once those are back in, we should be able to uncomment everything in Complex that is currently commented out.
15:58 colomon make worked
15:58 colomon make test died.
15:58 jnthn Oh?
15:58 jnthn Curious.
15:59 colomon when building Test.pir
15:59 colomon Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2
15:59 jnthn eeek
16:00 colomon trying to undo it, just to double-check
16:00 colomon yup.
16:00 jnthn oh, I'll bet you that's some "calling wrong multi candidate because we don't go through the multi-dispatcher" problem.
16:00 colomon oh, hey, it's the "is deafult" version that fails
16:01 colomon and you've commented out every "is default" operator in Complex.
16:01 jnthn oh
16:01 jnthn That makes sense.
16:02 jnthn Need to put that back.
16:02 colomon don't let me stop you from doing that, but why do we need is default there, anyway?
16:03 pmichaud likely to avoid ambiguous dispatch
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16:03 jnthn aye
16:04 pmichaud do we need "is default" if we have the Complex,Complex case defined above it?
16:04 jnthn colomon: It may actually be that the "is default" impl from the old traits.pm can just be taken accross.
16:05 jnthn pmichaud: Good question...
16:05 pmichaud oh, I guess we do.
16:05 jnthn Probably there's a way to get a conflict out of the others...
16:06 colomon pmichaud: what's the case that would trigger the need for "is default" here?
16:07 pmichaud well, normally the problem with   $a, Complex $b    and Complex $a, $b    is that we can't distinguish between two Complex arguments
16:07 colomon but we have Complex, Complex.
16:07 pmichaud but if there's an explicit Complex $a, Complex $b case, I suspect that's not an issue.
16:07 pmichaud so we might not need 'is default' at all here.
16:07 pmichaud my original formulations in Rat didn't have the explicit Complex, Complex case -- just used 'is default' to disambiguate
16:08 pmichaud sorry
16:08 pmichaud my original formulates in Rat didn't have an explicit Rat, Rat case -- they just used 'is default' to disambiguate
16:08 colomon I'm trying it without is default, but still getting some weirdness
16:08 pmichaud so perhaps that was copied over to Complex
16:08 colomon yeah, I'm afraid it may be my own stupid mistake.  ;)
16:09 colomon ng: say 1i + 1i
16:09 p6eval ng 268a8a: 0 + {2}i␤
16:09 colomon ng: say 1i + 1
16:09 p6eval ng 268a8a: Could not find non-existent sub &fail␤current instr.: 'perl6;Complex;_block2489' pc 168885 (src/gen/core.pir:13397)␤
16:09 colomon ng: say 1 + 1i
16:09 p6eval ng 268a8a: Could not find non-existent sub &fail␤current instr.: 'perl6;Complex;_block2489' pc 168885 (src/gen/core.pir:13397)␤
16:09 colomon after uncommenting and removing is default, I get the first two working but not the last
16:10 colomon (locally, I mean)
16:10 colomon possibly dispatching to the wrong infix:<+> internally there?
16:11 pmichaud yes, we may indeed still have the imcc bug in the way
16:12 jnthn wait, wait...you agree it's a bug now? ;-)
16:12 pmichaud (I wondered if you would catch that.  No.)
16:12 jnthn Aww, damm.
16:12 pmichaud it's a bug for our purposes.
16:12 pmichaud the bug being that we don't have a good way to turn that feature off.
16:13 jnthn Well, guess we can try adding :multi
16:13 pmichaud grrrrrrrrrrowl
16:13 * jnthn tries it
16:13 * pmichaud burns a Parrot in effigy.
16:13 pmichaud okay... so
16:14 pmichaud I build Parrot
16:14 pmichaud I install Parrot
16:14 jnthn Is this the Rakudo version of Guy Fawkes night?
16:14 pmichaud I build a new copy of NQP from the installed Parrot
16:14 pmichaud it fails
16:14 pmichaud because
16:14 jnthn oh...some push_string thing?
16:14 pmichaud it continues to look for libraries in the BUILD parrot
16:14 jnthn In GetOpt?
16:15 * jnthn saw that yesterday briefly, but just before sleep.
16:15 jnthn I thought I just had a dirty tree. But. Gah.
16:15 pmichaud the libraries that exist in runtime/parrot/library in parrot's tree get priority over any libraries in either the current directory or the install tree -- even when using the installed Parrot
16:15 jnthn wait...wait...the installed Parrot knows about the directory it was built in still?
16:15 pmichaud yes.
16:15 pmichaud apparently.
16:16 pmichaud because everything fails until I copy the updated libraries into runtime/parrot/library in the build tree.
16:16 jnthn So if a user build Parrot and sudo's to install it, then a global installed Parrot can still be talked into using libraries from a normal user?
16:17 pmichaud well, that exists already, via the -L option
16:17 pmichaud that's not really what I'm saying
16:17 pmichaud if I build Parrot
16:17 pmichaud then install it
16:17 pmichaud then copy a new library into the installed library directory
16:17 pmichaud but don't eliminate the build tree
16:18 pmichaud then the installed parrot still uses the copy in the build tree in preference to its own installed copy
16:18 jnthn *sigh*
16:18 jnthn That's screwed up, and I'm quite sure there's a security problem in with that too.
16:19 jnthn In addition to the fact that it's just, well, wrong.
16:19 * pmichaud prepares a ticket
16:20 jnthn Extra points if it contains ASCII art of a burning Parrot effigy.
16:24 * diakopter blinks
16:24 masak Rakudo devs, arguably Parrot's biggest customer, propose burning a Parrot effigy in ASCII. news at eleven.
16:25 arnsholt rakudo: sub foo { say "foo"; }; my &test = &foo; test();
16:25 p6eval rakudo 7347ec: foo␤
16:26 jnthn pmichaud: oh f... No. Putting :multi on it won't Just Fix It.
16:27 jnthn pmichaud: Turns out being marked :anon doesn't suppress the attempted namespace insertion.
16:27 jnthn s/attempted//
16:27 pmichaud it still puts the MultiSub in the namespace?
16:27 jnthn (if used in conjunction with :multi)
16:27 pmichaud okay, I can see that.
16:27 jnthn pmichaud: It appears so.
16:28 pmichaud I wonder if we could get *that* changed.  :)
16:28 jnthn Anonimity ain't what it used to be.
16:28 pmichaud but it's a bandaid on top of a mess of bandages.
16:28 arnsholt rakudo: class A { has &.m; method t { .m(); }; }; sub foo { say "foo"; }; my A $a .= new(:t(&foo)); $a.t();
16:28 p6eval rakudo 7347ec:  ( no output )
16:28 jnthn Well, yes.
16:29 arnsholt rakudo: class A { has &.m; method t { &.m(); }; }; sub foo { say "foo"; }; my A $a .= new(:t(&foo)); $a.t();
16:29 jnthn Anyway, we explode at startup as a result so...
16:29 p6eval rakudo 7347ec:  ( no output )
16:29 * jnthn pulls that change out again
16:33 pmichaud I think I have prefix/postfix working again
16:33 pmichaud building/testing now
16:33 jnthn Cool :-)
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16:36 pmurias diakopter: hi
16:37 diakopter pmurias: hi
16:38 colomon pmichaud: that's the abs -14 issue?
16:38 pmichaud colomon: yes
16:39 jnthn pmichaud: oh. That may fix something with defined in Test.pm too, perhaps.
16:40 colomon \o/
16:40 pmichaud oh, well I'm getting compile failure now, so it may be a bit
16:40 pmurias diakopter: i you're interested in App::Persistent you could help with checking if the distribution (http://www.yourcargo.org/A​pp-Persistent-0.01.tar.gz) builds on a machine different from mine
16:41 diakopter 0.01 ?
16:41 diakopter analogous to mod_perl, but without apache?
16:42 colomon philosophical question here: I can work around the infix:<+> issue with Complex by just writing out the one line of code needed to implement the addition, rather than redispatching it.
16:43 colomon IMO redispatching it is a little less in violation of DRY, but on the other hand it seems insane that Num + Complex should take longer to execute than Complex + Num.
16:43 pmurias diakopter: it forks a new copy of a process instead of loading all the libraries once more
16:44 diakopter like mod_perl prefork except not prefork? synchronous fork?
16:44 payload joined #perl6
16:44 pmurias i don't fully remember how mod_perl worked but i's something like that ;)
16:45 diakopter prefork would be even speedier
16:45 pmurias i think one forked copy is used only once
16:45 diakopter ok
16:46 pmurias so you don't have problems with persistent trash
16:47 pmurias diakopter: my fork lives at http://github.com/pmurias/app-persistent if you want to add prefork
16:53 arnsholt Is &infix:<<=>> the right name for the numeric comparison operator?
16:53 pmichaud Yes.
16:54 pmichaud well, it depends, actually
16:54 moritz_ erm, no
16:54 pmichaud internally it's stored as &infix:<<=>>
16:54 pmichaud but if you're writing it in the setting or code you'll want  &infix:«<=>»
16:54 jnthn Is the right name in terms of how we name-mangle it.
16:54 moritz_ &infix:<<=>> is the same as &infix:<=>
16:54 moritz_ in Perl 6 at least, dunno about Rakudo :-)
16:54 jnthn If you're writing a call from PIR, for example, or naming it in the actions or something, then that'd be the form to use.
16:55 jnthn If you're writing it in Perl 6 code, then what moritz_ said. :-)
16:55 masak moritz_: what pmichaud said. it depends on what level of abstraction you're looking at. :)
16:55 pmichaud moritz_: Perl 6 spec says that   &infix:«<=>»  is stored in the symbol table as  &infix:<<=>> .
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16:55 moritz_ pmichaud: ok, so it's not wrong, but you can't refer to it by that name easily in Perl 6
16:55 pmichaud moritz_: correct.
16:56 pmichaud in the setting, it should be written with the « »
16:56 pmichaud (I'm not sure if the compiler supports that yet)
16:58 pmichaud oddly, that's also where my current failure appears.  :-(
16:58 pmichaud (handling of category:<xyz> names)
16:58 arnsholt This sounds a bit complicated. I'll just use &infix:<cmp> instead. This is just for fiddling
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17:02 diakopter jnthn: how can I test for an Undef value in nqp
17:04 pmichaud pir::defined__IP($value)
17:04 pmichaud I plan to add a defined prefix operator, though :-)
17:10 astrojp left #perl6
17:10 pmichaud okay, pushed ng branch with prefix/postfix fix.
17:10 mathw afternoon
17:12 colomon I should have most of Complex arithmetic back on-line shortly.
17:13 colomon (that's basic arithmetic, + - * /)
17:15 payload joined #perl6
17:19 diakopter pmichaud: oh! thanks
17:22 qp_pq joined #perl6
17:24 moritz_ S03-operator/true.t passes again
17:26 ktne joined #perl6
17:26 ktne hello
17:26 diakopter hi
17:27 ktne what is the last raduko that passes all spectest?
17:27 moritz_ good question - we've had problems with some tests for quite a while
17:27 moritz_ and regressed on one for the last release
17:30 qp_pq hi, just ate the white version of caviar
17:31 ktne is that fish eggs?
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17:32 diakopter qp_pq: eh?
17:32 pmichaud (and we've never passed *all* spectests :-)
17:33 qp_pq diakopter: yeah like whit roe
17:33 qp_pq *white
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17:33 mathw pmichaud: I have completely failed to make 'when' work even a little bit
17:33 qp_pq pretty good
17:33 pmichaud mathw: did you look at how it's done in the master branch?
17:33 pmichaud yes, it's non-trivial :-|
17:33 mathw pmichaud: yes
17:33 colomon colomon-- # checked in changes without making sure they worked with the latest git pull.  :(
17:33 jnthn mathw: Oh, I think I might have done it...
17:33 * jnthn checks commit log...
17:33 mathw jnthn: excellent
17:34 jnthn (yes, I threw in so many commits I'm losing track of them by now :-/)
17:34 jnthn mathw: yes
17:34 jnthn I did.
17:34 mathw yay
17:35 jnthn http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b​9d0625d9b98acdb92561fb81a382d35b70c2924
17:35 * mathw looks to see how
17:35 mathw it's okay anyway, i don't have time for a few days
17:35 mathw turns out  ihave a job interview on tuesday
17:35 mathw so I'm brushing up on some stuff
17:36 pmichaud +    # Handle the smart-match. XXX Need to handle syntactic cases too.
17:36 pmichaud do we handle the syntactic cases even for 'when' statements?
17:36 pmichaud I figured that was just plain .ACCEPT
17:36 jnthn pmichaud: We did in master.
17:36 pmichaud yes, but should we?
17:37 pmichaud i.e., what does the spec say?
17:37 jnthn pmichaud: I dunno. I was relying on me having read the spec at some point in the past. ;-)
17:37 pmichaud spec changes :-)
17:37 jnthn Yeah, true.
17:37 jnthn It was quite obvious that I'd gone out of my way to actually make when handle the syntactic cases.
17:37 qp_pq mathw: how's p6 being received when you mention it at interviews ?
17:37 masak rakudo: sub f(@a, $i=0) { $i ~ "[{map { f($_, $i + 1) }, @a}]" }; say f([[], [[]], []])
17:37 p6eval rakudo 7347ec: 0[1[] 2[3[]] 4[]]␤
17:38 * masak adds that to #70469
17:38 jnthn We can check the spec, anyway.
17:38 mathw qp_pq: I'll let you know after I've mentioned it
17:38 jnthn mathw: oh, nicely golfed.
17:38 masak jnthn: here I am :)
17:38 * moritz_ detects a tab fail :-)
17:38 diakopter hugme: hug qp_pq
17:38 * hugme hugs qp_pq
17:38 pmichaud masak: I suspect that's related to dispatch/binder changes, but that's just a guess.
17:38 masak pmichaud: same here.
17:38 jnthn Me too now I see it as a sub example.
17:39 qp_pq diakopter: you mean I'm a troll ?
17:39 jnthn masak: Default param to blame?
17:39 masak jnthn: I'll check.
17:39 masak rakudo: sub f(@a, $i) { $i ~ "[{map { f($_, $i + 1) }, @a}]" }; say f([[], [[]], []], 0)
17:39 diakopter qp_pq: not necessarily
17:39 jnthn moritz_: gah, worse is that it took me this long to realize it was me that failed. ;-)
17:39 p6eval rakudo 7347ec: 0[1[] 2[3[]] 4[]]␤
17:39 masak jnthn: no.
17:40 jnthn masak: Aww.
17:40 moritz_ masak: dammit. I was just about to put it into S06-signature/defaults.t
17:40 jnthn lol
17:40 masak :)
17:40 pmichaud looks to me as though a new lexpad isn't being created somehow.
17:40 arnsholt Is multimethods a known quirky part of Rakudo?
17:40 jnthn Yeah, the problem is in the somehow.
17:40 moritz_ masak: and now I realize it's the wrong place, and I have no clue where to put it
17:40 jnthn arnsholt: In master, no.
17:40 moritz_ arnsholt: no
17:40 masak moritz_: sorry :D
17:41 jnthn arnsholt: In ng, probably some issues.
17:41 arnsholt Hmm
17:41 moritz_ masak: did you submit it already? if yes, do you know the ticket number?
17:41 arnsholt I'm on master
17:41 diakopter qp_pq: would you like to contribute?  there are many ways to do so
17:41 jnthn 70469
17:41 pmichaud afk, lunch
17:41 moritz_ thanks jnthn
17:41 qp_pq diakopter: haven't slept for ~36h
17:42 qp_pq diakopter: although I consider contributing
17:42 diakopter well, that's interesting
17:42 ktne qp_pq, you should get some sleep before you drop dead
17:42 qp_pq my contribution to CPAN amounts to 9 patches
17:42 moritz_ masak: smells a bit like the old "lexicals and recursion" bug of world fame
17:43 masak moritz_: a bit.
17:43 masak #58392 :)
17:43 qp_pq modules patched -> SVG.pm, CGI.pm, Math::Polynomial, Lingua::NL::Numbers , and not all patches were accepted, or even noticed
17:43 * pmichaud cries at the thought of #58392 being at all relevant again.
17:43 qp_pq so maybe contributing to Perl6 will be a bit more noticeable
17:43 moritz_ qp_pq: most of my CPAN patches seemed to be ignored too
17:43 jnthn pmichaud: Heh, nah, I probably just managed something stupid in the binding or dispatch somehow.
17:44 qp_pq you guys have a standard for p6 ?
17:44 moritz_ qp_pq: what do you mean by that?
17:45 qp_pq moritz_: like this www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg​21/docs/papers/2005/n1905.pdf
17:45 diakopter qp_pq: would you like a commitbit to the pugscode svn repo (which contains the specification & test suite)?  /msg me your email address and preferred username; we'll send you one
17:45 mathw qp_pq: http://perlcabal.org/syn
17:45 mathw qp_pq: it's still a bit fluid
17:45 * masak goes to the store to buy good food
17:45 qp_pq wow you people are really friendly :)
17:45 * qp_pq a.k.a spx2
17:46 * qp_pq a.k.a. http://perlhobby.googlecode.com/
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18:11 diakopter large netsplit..
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18:14 mathw hmm, that was messy
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18:22 pmichaud back
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18:29 arnsholt Bugreport submitted. With source of segfault even
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18:30 mathw arnsholt++
18:30 arnsholt It's either a simple oversight in a macro, or an improperly initialised data structure; I'm not familiar enough with the code to determine which
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18:52 dalek nqp-rx: aa07d85 | pmichaud++ | src/cheats/hll-grammar.pir:
18:52 dalek nqp-rx: In HLL::Grammar.EXPR, make a better distinction between <termish> and <term>.
18:52 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/a​a07d85c86d982d84826af724dabadd7d23edbca
18:52 dalek nqp-rx: 9b01eaa | pmichaud++ | src/cheats/hll-grammar.pir:
18:52 dalek nqp-rx: Convert termstack and opstack from lexicals to parameters for reusability.
18:52 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/9​b01eaa9443cf3d9724d7117c2970f07f46a670e
18:53 dalek nqp-rx: a984e53 | pmichaud++ | src/ (3 files):
18:53 dalek nqp-rx: Eliminate nullterms in source code.
18:53 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/a​984e53a3d8515c5d2ce974eb5461e2e06d6a63e
18:53 dalek nqp-rx: 49e36a8 | pmichaud++ | src/ (5 files):
18:53 dalek nqp-rx: Update <EXPR> to properly handle prefix/postfix and terms.
18:53 dalek nqp-rx: Update <nulltermish> to better handle nullterms.
18:53 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/4​9e36a85be8cdcfda4873c7219bcecdea0d1b52a
18:53 dalek nqp-rx: 9ded5d3 | pmichaud++ | src/stage0/ (3 files):
18:53 dalek nqp-rx: Update boostrap with fixed EXPR and nullterm handling.
18:53 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/9​ded5d31c2adc2f701954be0039a7ff3884ee762
18:55 pugs_svn r29094 | moritz++ | [t/spec] r29067 removed :keepall, so get rid of it
18:56 moritz_ rakudo: say 'foo' ~~ /<alpha>/ && say $/
18:56 p6eval rakudo 7347ec: f␤1␤
18:58 diakopter pmurias: EV doesn't pass all its tests
18:59 Wolfman2000 afternoon all
19:00 moritz_ good localtime *
19:00 Wolfman2000 unsure how much work I can get done on the new Pastebin...have to catch up on homework
19:00 Wolfman2000 Would have done so last night, but...well, I had company.
19:02 pugs_svn r29095 | moritz++ | [t/spec] as per r29067 <foo=bar> aliasing preserves the $<bar> capture, but <foo=.bar> does not
19:06 pugs_svn r29096 | moritz++ | [u4x] more TODOs :-)
19:06 pugs_svn r29097 | moritz++ | [docs] remove blog/, which slowly bitrots
19:08 colomon pmichaud: is there an eta for "for"
19:08 colomon ?
19:10 pmichaud colomon: not at the moment.
19:10 pmichaud we could possibly put in the (not quite right) for from master, if we're in a hurry for it.
19:11 colomon it would help with the math tests.
19:12 pmichaud looking.
19:12 colomon but we can accomplish a lot working around it.
19:14 nihiliad1 joined #perl6
19:14 pmichaud I may have a cheating form
19:14 colomon \o/
19:17 nbrown joined #perl6
19:18 nbrown joined #perl6
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19:24 pugs_svn r29098 | moritz++ | [examples] small fixes to Grammar-IRC.pm
19:26 Wolfman2000 ...right, that reminds me. I need to recompile STD.pm at some point.
19:27 Su-Shee left #perl6
19:30 pmichaud jnthn: ping
19:31 nbrown_ joined #perl6
19:32 desertm4x__ joined #perl6
19:32 jnthn pmichaud: p0ng
19:33 constant_ joined #perl6
19:33 pmichaud is there an easy way to get the arity (and perhaps count) from a P::C::Signature object?
19:33 pmichaud I need to set the block arity in PAST
19:33 pmichaud I was just going to write a .arity method for now.
19:34 pugs_svn r29099 | moritz++ | [misc] remove botnix_plugins, which are now developed at
19:34 pugs_svn r29099 | http://github.com/Infinoid/dalek-plugins/
19:36 moritz_ do we still have global variables, officially?
19:37 jnthn pmichaud: I think add a .arity method to P::C::S
19:37 pmichaud done
19:37 pmichaud we probably won't need it when we have lazy map
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19:43 * colomon dreams of lazy map....
19:43 jnthn pmichaud: Cool. Hope it was easy to write. :-)
19:43 pmichaud 'for' pushed
19:46 pmichaud well, sorta
19:46 pmichaud something's not working right
19:47 pmichaud works with pointy blocks, but not with an implicit topic block
19:48 [particle] joined #perl6
19:48 pmichaud ah, I see
19:48 Whiteknight joined #perl6
19:48 pmichaud arity of an implicit topic block is zero.
19:49 mathw so it needs to spot an implicit block as a special case?
19:49 ktne joined #perl6
19:49 pmichaud mathw: that's a workaround, not the ideal solution.
19:49 masak joined #perl6
19:49 mathw mmm
19:50 mathw special cases are not good
19:50 pmichaud better would be if 'for' knew how to deal with count as well as arity
19:50 pmichaud still better will be when for/map can do partial signature binds
19:52 mathw well make that work first then :)
19:52 pmichaud that still needs a Perl 6 spec, alas.
19:52 pmichaud so until then, we're stuck with .arity/.count :)
19:52 mathw :(
19:53 diakopter well, STD creates a signature for it based on the number of $^aaaa
19:54 mathw I saw something about that in there
19:54 jnthn Partial signature binds...they may be a minor brane ache.
19:54 jnthn (not too bad though...)
19:56 pmichaud I'll just force arity to be at least one for now
19:56 pmichaud it's a 1-line change in a section that is going to be rewritten anyway :-)
19:59 pmichaud updated 'for' pushed
20:00 nihiliad joined #perl6
20:00 colomon pmichaud++ # was just failing to get the last one to work....
20:04 colomon 1..20 nyi?
20:05 colomon ng: say (1..20).perl
20:05 p6eval ng 6ae412: Confused at line 1, near "say (1..20"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:300)␤
20:06 jnthn colomon: afaik nyi
20:09 masak ng: say map { $_ * 2 }, 1, 2, 3;
20:09 p6eval ng 6ae412: Could not find non-existent sub &map␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
20:11 jnthn masak: Thing is, we need gather/take, and they need re-doing to be lazy.
20:11 masak ng: sub f(@a, $i=0) { my @b; $i ~ "[{ for @a { @b.push(f($_, $i + 1)) }; @b }]" }; say f([[], [[]], []])
20:11 p6eval ng 6ae412: Confused at line 1, near "say f([[],"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:300)␤
20:12 pmichaud I don't think ng has interpolated closures yet.
20:12 masak oh.
20:12 pmichaud ng:  say "{1 + 2}"
20:12 p6eval ng 6ae412: {1 + 2}␤
20:12 pmichaud still, I'm surprised it didn't at least print out the constant.
20:13 jnthn yeah, same...I'm not sure where it exploded...
20:13 pmichaud ng:  say [[], [[]], []].perl
20:13 p6eval ng 6ae412: Confused at line 1, near "say [[], ["␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:300)␤
20:13 jnthn oh, there.
20:13 pmichaud ng:  say [[], [[]], []]
20:13 p6eval ng 6ae412: Confused at line 1, near "say [[], ["␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:300)␤
20:13 pmichaud ng:  say []
20:13 p6eval ng 6ae412: Confused at line 1, near "say []"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:300)␤
20:13 jnthn oh
20:13 pmichaud :-)
20:13 jnthn I think I noticed that the other day.
20:13 pmichaud that's easily added.
20:13 jnthn It has an epic distaste for empty circumfixes.
20:13 jnthn ng: my @a; @a[]
20:13 p6eval ng 6ae412: Confused at line 1, near "@a[]"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:300)␤
20:13 jnthn same for empty post-circumfixes.
20:14 jnthn Probably easy too though.
20:14 jnthn ELOTSOFLHF
20:14 pmichaud empty post-circumfix is a little trickier, since it's a zen slice
20:14 colomon PAST::Compiler can't compile node of type BigInt
20:15 pmichaud I'm not sure where the BigInt is coming from.
20:15 pmichaud oh, wait
20:15 pmichaud no
20:15 pmichaud hrm.
20:15 colomon that's in complex.t
20:15 pmichaud if you can narrow it down to a single test, that could help
20:15 colomon working on it
20:17 colomon but kind of stumped at the moment
20:18 colomon would that happen after the first stage of parsing
20:18 jnthn That is kinda...odd.
20:18 jnthn colomon: Do you get same error with --target=pir rather than just running it too?
20:19 pmichaud the problem is likely that some numish value is being auto-promoted by Parrot.
20:19 pmichaud Although I didn't know that Parrot had BigInts
20:20 pmichaud are there any large decimal values floating around in complex.t?  i.e., with lots of digits that might overflow a 32-bit int?
20:20 colomon jnthn: same error
20:22 colomon pmichaud: small values, maybe?
20:22 jnthn colomon: Maybe --target=past will work then and you can search the past tree for BigInt, then try and trace it back to the code.
20:22 colomon -1.83697e-16-1i
20:22 pmichaud I think that normally goes to a num
20:22 pmichaud I'm looking for large rats
20:23 jnthn http://www.altpet.net/roden​ts/cricetomys/jo/jo3-98.jpg
20:23 jnthn colomon: If you can, there should be some source => or similar around that point back to the code near the BigInt
20:24 arnsholt jnthn: That -is- a big rat =D
20:24 pmichaud ...except I doubt that the dump will show the BigInt
20:24 jnthn pmichaud: Maybe not, no.
20:24 pmichaud oh, it might, actually
20:24 colomon pi
20:24 colomon my $pi = 3.141592653589793238;
20:24 pmichaud pi would do it, if it's too large
20:24 jnthn pmichaud: But it may, so I guess wroth a try. :-)
20:24 jnthn Ah
20:25 colomon that's just a guess
20:25 pmichaud > my $pi = 3.141592653589793238;
20:25 pmichaud no bigint lib loaded
20:25 lambdabot <no location info>: parse error on input `='
20:25 moritz_ ng: 3.141592653589793238
20:25 p6eval ng 1ddafa: No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for '&infix:<div>'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Rat;new' pc 163055 (src/gen/core.pir:11051)␤
20:26 pmichaud okay, so my guess is that it runs out of range while computing the .14159265.... part
20:26 moritz_ just make it a Num
20:26 moritz_ by attaching a e0 at the end
20:26 pmichaud sure, but we have to detect it
20:26 pmichaud no, don't do that
20:27 pmichaud I'd rather not be polluting our test suite with workarounds
20:27 moritz_ pmichaud: it was never intended to be a Rat
20:27 pmichaud (also, it's not clear that e0 should be forcing num-ness :-)
20:27 moritz_ pmichaud: when the test was written it as supposed to give a Num, which makes sense in that context
20:27 pmichaud moritz_: I understand that.
20:27 moritz_ it's not clear?
20:28 pmichaud does the spec say that literals with exponentials are always cast to Num ?
20:28 jnthn I thought that was how you made clear you wanted a Num.
20:28 pmichaud I would think the way to make clear you want a Num is with   Num(...)  :-)
20:28 jnthn As a literal. :-P
20:29 moritz_ that's a coercion, not a literal
20:29 arnsholt my Num $pi, or would that just trigger a coercion behind the scenes?
20:29 pmichaud arnsholt: that's a constraint, not a coercion
20:29 arnsholt Point
20:29 moritz_ arnsholt: that would be a type check, not... what pmichaud wrote
20:29 colomon pretty sure I have verification that pi is it
20:30 pmichaud colomon: oh sure, I already verified.  See above :)
20:30 arnsholt moritz_: Oh, right
20:30 moritz_ Decimal fractions not using "e" notation are also stored as C<Rat> values:
20:30 moritz_ 6.02e23.WHAT     # Num
20:30 jnthn Decimal fractions not using "e" notation are also stored as C<Rat> values:
20:30 pmichaud okay, so e forces num
20:30 jnthn oh, moritz_ beat me.
20:30 moritz_ :-)
20:30 pmichaud okay, if you want to add the e0 to force it in the tests, that's fine with me :-)
20:31 pmichaud I'd still like to get 3.141592653589793238  to work properly too, though.
20:31 pmichaud although perhaps that fits in a 64-bit rat
20:31 colomon ng: say 3.141592653589793238e0
20:31 p6eval ng 1ddafa: 3.14159265358979␤
20:31 colomon huh
20:32 moritz_ ng: say 3.141592653589793238e0.WHAT
20:32 p6eval ng 1ddafa: Num()␤
20:32 colomon doesn't appear to work in complex.t?!?
20:33 colomon Multiple Dispatch: No suitable candidate found for 'multiply_float', with signature 'PNP->P'
20:34 pmichaud colomon: it undoubtedly has to do with NQP and Parrot register semantics
20:35 pugs_svn r29100 | moritz++ | [t/spec] make pi a Num instead of Rat
20:37 pmichaud converting the digit sequence into numbers requires that we know where we're storing the results, and how
20:38 pmichaud in the example above,  141692653589793238  is too large to fit in a 32-bit int
20:39 moritz_ rakudo: say log2(141692653589793238)
20:39 p6eval rakudo 7347ec: Could not find non-existent sub log2␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤
20:39 moritz_ rakudo: say log(141692653589793238, 2)
20:39 p6eval rakudo 7347ec: No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'log'␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
20:39 moritz_ rakudo: say log(141692653589793238)/log(2)
20:39 p6eval rakudo 7347ec: 56.9755425731454␤
20:40 * moritz_ thought we had a patch for that somewhere
20:40 pmichaud patch for ... ?
20:40 moritz_ log with base
20:54 pmichaud afk, soccer party
20:55 jnthn .oO( don't they call that a ball? )
20:56 colomon y]
20:56 colomon 757 passing rat tests
20:57 yahooooo joined #perl6
20:57 jnthn \o/
21:01 moritz_ ng doesn't support the -c option yet, it seems
21:14 nihiliad1 joined #perl6
21:19 justatheory_ joined #perl6
21:24 diakopter r-ng. sounds suspiciously like rng.
21:27 Wolfman2000 I'll be back later. With luck, I can knock out more of the website. Core functionality is available at least.
21:31 astrojp joined #perl6
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21:47 colomon oh noes.
21:48 colomon If I leave it in, test #759 kills rat.t
21:48 colomon If I skip it, rat.t dies on test #55.
21:48 colomon :O
21:49 diakopter leaving it might induce a stack overflow or out-of-memory in parsing
21:50 [[synth]] joined #perl6
22:03 pmurias diakopter: EV not passing tests is bad
22:09 pmurias diakopter: do you know what's the reason?
22:10 synth joined #perl6
22:13 diakopter nope
22:13 japhb pmichaud, ping
22:13 diakopter same as the bug report on rt.cpan.org for it
22:13 diakopter that the author auto-replied with STFU
22:14 payload joined #perl6
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22:23 diakopter http://www.xent.com/pipermail/fork​/Week-of-Mon-20091109/054578.html
22:25 jnthn ...wow
22:25 jnthn !
22:28 oZ] joined #perl6
22:29 diakopter email address literals; lol.
22:32 jnthn In Perl 6, they're just a slang away. :-)
22:32 jnthn Just imagine! We could be THE language for spammers!
22:33 jnthn my $target = foo@bar.com; $target.send_mail('oh hai', 'i haz v1agraz for you!');
22:35 japhb "Oh good, 'cause I always wanted me some v1agraz!"
22:35 diakopter std: my ::larry@wall.org
22:35 p6eval std 29100: ok 00:01 101m␤
22:35 * diakopter spends too much time attacking parsers.
22:36 pmurias diakopter: you should approach them with kindness not agression ;)
22:36 diakopter EKILLINGMESOFTLYWITHHISFUZZER
22:37 japhb Um, Ow.
22:37 jnthn lol
22:37 japhb Or are you talking about a cat that hasn't had his claws trimmed recently?\
22:37 jnthn std: sub term:<email> is parsed(/\w+\@\w+\.\w+/) { };
22:37 p6eval std 29100: ok 00:02 111m␤
22:38 * japhb starts humming Ted Nugent
22:39 diakopter ltm fail
22:41 rfordinal3643 joined #perl6
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22:44 zaslon lolmasakhazblogged! masak++ 'November 15 2009 -- money gets inflated, time gets deflated': http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/39901?from=rss
22:46 frettled masak: yay?
22:47 masak frettled: I don't know how to answer that. :)
22:47 frettled masak: just smile, wave and nod.
22:47 * masak just smiles, waves and nods
22:48 * diakopter yays
22:48 jnthn yaymasakblogged!
22:50 lisppaste3 colomon pasted "my hacked for ng version of rat.t" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90448
22:50 diakopter "your programming language is so inflated, it always compiles to an assembly/image smaller than the source code size"
22:50 diakopter colomon: where does it fail now
22:50 colomon pmichaud, jnthn, etc: look for # This is the spot
22:51 colomon diakopter: this version fails at #462.  but just uncommenting the 3 tests are "This is the spot" will get it to fail at #757 or so.
22:51 colomon This is in the ng branch.
22:51 diakopter yar
22:51 colomon And skipping makes them fail at #55.
22:51 colomon It's panic-inducing.
22:52 diakopter #757 or so?  what happens if you prove just that file?
22:53 colomon diakopter: this is using the makefile to prove that file, ala make t/spec/S32-num/rat.t
22:53 mikehh joined #perl6
22:55 arnsholt diakopter: That was a very interesting rant you linked
22:55 arnsholt I think he's being overly demanding on several points, but he does have quite a few good points as well
22:56 masak it figured on Twitter a few days ago, with the comment 'the Python people want CPAN'.
22:56 masak I don't remember who posted it.
22:56 * diakopter was catching up on a tweetweek
22:57 japhb It feels like the ranter doesn't understand the waterbed principle.
22:57 colomon waterbed?
22:57 masak ah, it was nihiliad1 who forwarded this link: http://chris.prather.org/eve​rybody-wants-some--cpan.html
22:57 japhb Not that he doesn't have good points, but I feel a "people have gotten 80% of the way to being able to compress every possible file, so why can't we get 100%" vibe.
22:57 arnsholt colomon: Decreased complexity in one place means increased complexity elsewhere
22:58 masak colomon: http://chris.prather.org/eve​rybody-wants-some--cpan.html
22:58 arnsholt And vice versa
22:58 masak oops.
22:58 masak colomon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterbed_theory
22:58 japhb colomon, TimToady's idea: complexity is a waterbed.  Push down in one place, it goes up in another.  Get a super simplified syntax, and something else just got a lot harder.
22:59 colomon Ah, heard that explanation years ago and completely forgot it.
22:59 oZ] left #perl6
23:00 colomon danke.
23:00 japhb Note that the waterbed theory doesn't apply if there are bubbles ... just that once all bubbles are gone, then you have an incompressible liquid to deal with.
23:03 diakopter I guess it depends how strong the waterbed frame/bag are, and how much pressure can be applied.  I suspect water can be compressed until fusion occurs
23:04 masak diakopter: I think that counts as the funniest thing someone has said today.
23:10 masak time to go home and sleep.
23:10 masak 'night, #perl6.
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23:22 pmichaud my $a = ();  say $a.WHAT;   # ???
23:23 pmichaud what should be the result there?
23:23 jnthn hm
23:23 pmichaud I can think that it would be a List, Nil, a Failure....
23:24 jnthn pmichaud: First, what does () itself construct?
23:24 pmichaud japhb: pong
23:24 pmichaud jnthn: well, the answer to my question tells me what () constructs :-)
23:24 jnthn pmichaud: I'm under the impression infix:<,> is what constructs our Parcel.
23:24 jnthn pmichaud: Well, no, because the item assignment enforces a context.
23:24 pmichaud sure, infix:<,> constructs a parcel -- that's not my question
23:24 pmichaud I know that   my $a = (1,)   # List
23:24 jnthn And if the answer to the first question were to be Parcel (which I don't think it is though) then the context would matter. :-)
23:25 pmichaud I'm pretty certain the answer to the first question is not Parcel
23:25 jnthn Right, me too.
23:25 eternaleye joined #perl6
23:25 jnthn But wanted to clear that option up first. :-)
23:25 pmichaud if () produces a List, then $a would be a List
23:25 pmichaud if () produces Nil, then $a would be either Nil or some sort of Undef
23:26 jnthn Nil feels closest to correct.
23:26 japhb pmichaud, did you decide how you wanted to handle "global" variables in NQP?  For example, did you decide yay or nay on having contextuals have a final try at namespace []?
23:26 pmichaud japhb: so far I'm leaning towards yea
23:26 pmichaud japhb: I haven't decided yet
23:26 Infinoid_ joined #perl6
23:27 pmichaud if () produces Nil, then I'd expect   my $a = ()  to be undef.
23:27 japhb If you're inside a module Foo::Bar, how would you declare a variable in that namespace.  Actually, in general, how do you refer to things in other namespaces in NQP (other than the 'new' operation)?
23:27 jnthn Yeah
23:27 Grrrr joined #perl6
23:27 jnthn But it also does something sane for my @a = ();
23:27 jnthn (if it produces Nil)
23:27 pmichaud jnthn: sure, but that would be true if () is a List, too
23:28 jnthn I guess List would as well...
23:28 arnsholt joined #perl6
23:28 pmichaud japhb: declare a variable in the Foo::Bar namespace?
23:28 jnthn pmichaud: OTOH, I guess (), (1), (1,2) # we have a dis-continuity at (1)...
23:28 pmichaud that would just be 'our'
23:28 japhb Right.  And how do you refer to the [] namespace from any other namespace?
23:29 pmichaud japhb: I'm thinking it'll be GLOBAL::
23:29 japhb ack, $family, brb
23:29 pmichaud jnthn: we already know there's a discontinuity at (1) -- been that way for quite a while
23:30 pmichaud I'm not trying to remove the discontinuity -- just trying to get a handle on what () and Nil really mean and when they're used :)
23:30 jnthn pmichaud: Sure, I'm just pondering whether having () special too is too much discountinuity.
23:30 jnthn I think that since we generally don't see () as the thing that constructs a List, I'd go towards Nil.
23:31 diakopter I thought Nil was List
23:31 jnthn Nil is a listy kind of undef.
23:31 jnthn (In list context it evaporates.)
23:32 diakopter and then condenses
23:33 mikehh joined #perl6
23:34 diakopter I mean, I thought Nil was empty List
23:34 pmichaud diakopter: it was at one time, yes.
23:35 pmichaud diakopter: I think it has morphed a bit since then
23:36 yahooooo joined #perl6
23:38 jnthn pmichaud: Hmm. Well, I guess this was all a tad unconclusive. :-)
23:39 jnthn pmichaud: imho, Nil gets my vote.
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23:46 colomon oh noes ^2!
23:46 colomon If I run rat.t under normal ng, I get a bus error around test #482.
23:47 japhb nqp: module Foo::Bar { $Baz::Quux::a := 5; say ($Baz::Quux::a); }
23:47 p6eval nqp: Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 1␤current instr.: 'parrot;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 1630 (src/Regex/Cursor-builtins.pir:179)␤
23:47 japhb nqp: module Foo::Bar { $Baz::Quux::a := 5; say($Baz::Quux::a); }
23:47 p6eval nqp: Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 1␤current instr.: 'parrot;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 1630 (src/Regex/Cursor-builtins.pir:179)␤
23:47 colomon If I run it under valgrind, it gets to test #759 and then dies with a (correct) perl6 error.
23:47 japhb nqp: $Baz::Quux::a := 5; say($Baz::Quux::a);
23:47 p6eval nqp: Confused at line 1, near "$Baz::Quux"␤current instr.: 'parrot;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 448 (src/cheats/hll-grammar.pir:197)␤
23:48 snearch_ joined #perl6
23:48 pmichaud nqp doesn't recognize $ABC::def syntax yet, I don't think.
23:48 japhb pmichaud, yeah, looks like so.
23:59 erkkk joined #perl6

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