IRC log for #perl6, 2009-11-23

Time	Nick	Message
00:04	dukeleto	moritz_: are you doing what i think you are doing?
00:05	dukeleto	moritz_: where is the source for hugme?
00:05	dukeleto	moritz_: and does it work with identi.ca?
00:09		pointme joined #perl6
00:09	carlin	pointme: hugme
00:09	pointme	Hugme hugs people! And gives commit access to various repos. It's source is at http://github.com/moritz/hugme/
00:09	moritz_	dukeleto: doesn't work with identi.ca unless Net::Twitter::Simple handles that too
00:10	moritz_	oh, should work too
00:11	moritz_	s/Simple/Lite/
00:12	moritz_	just needs an identica => 1 in the call to ->new()
00:14	diakopter	pointme: pointme
00:14	pointme	I have no idea what pointme does
00:14	diakopter	how pointed of your
00:14	diakopter	you
00:14	moritz_	carlin: see above :-)
00:20		bluescreen joined #perl6
00:31		pointme joined #perl6
00:31	carlin	pointme: pointme
00:31	pointme	Pointme is a suave, good-looking bot that links to proto projects, provides information about other bots and refers to itself in the third person
00:32	carlin	.oO( Self-aware bot )
00:36	Infinoid	pointme: dalek
00:36	pointme	Dalek announces commits to various repos. It's source is at http://github.com/Infinoid/dalek-plugins
00:37	Infinoid	It is fantastic that our array of bots has grown to the point of needing a guide bot to sort them all out.
00:37	diakopter	well, its plugin source is there. its framework source is at www.botnix.org
00:37	Infinoid	... for now. One day, I would like to replace the bot out from under the plugins.
00:38	carlin	pointme: diakopter
00:38	pointme	Sorry, I don't know anything about that project
00:38	carlin	Aww
00:38	carlin	pointme: masak
00:38	pointme	masak submits rakudo bugs ;-)
00:43		idemal joined #perl6
00:47	dukeleto	moritz_: thanks!
00:51		Exodist joined #perl6
00:59	cognominal_	ng: say split / /, 'a b'
00:59	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Null regex not allowed at line 1, near ", 'a b'"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 519 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:336)␤
01:04		FarOut joined #perl6
01:19	KyleHa	ng: say split / \s /, 'a b';
01:19	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Could not find non-existent sub &split␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
01:26	dukeleto	pointme: dukeleto
01:26	pointme	Sorry, I don't know anything about that project
01:36		agentzh joined #perl6
01:48		xinming joined #perl6
01:52		zostay joined #perl6
01:57		hcchien joined #perl6
02:16	diakopter	pointme: TimToady
02:16	pointme	Sorry, I don't know anything about that project
02:16	diakopter	pointme: Perl 6
02:16	pointme	Sorry, I don't know anything about that project
02:18	carlin	pointme: Alan Parsons
02:18	pointme	Sorry, I don't know anything about that project
02:19		orafu joined #perl6
02:23		agentzh joined #perl6
02:32	colomon	rakudo: say (1, 2, 3) X (4, 5, 6);
02:32	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 141516242526343536␤
02:32	colomon	rakudo: say ((1, 2, 3) X (4, 5, 6)).perl
02:32	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: [1, 4, 1, 5, 1, 6, 2, 4, 2, 5, 2, 6, 3, 4, 3, 5, 3, 6]␤
02:35		jaldhar joined #perl6
02:39	facsimile	rakudo: say perl.perl
02:39	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: Could not find non-existent sub perl␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤
02:40	facsimile	lol
02:41		zaphar_ps joined #perl6
02:44		pmichaud_ joined #perl6
02:45		gfldex_ joined #perl6
02:46		alester joined #perl6
02:48	carlin	Is there an easy way to turn $/ into a hash of strings?
02:49		petdance joined #perl6
02:52		alester joined #perl6
02:53		alester joined #perl6
03:14	* carlin	just discovered that Match objects have a .Hash and .hash which do different things
03:22	facsimile	rakudo: say Hash.hash
03:22	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: Hash()␤
03:28	diakopter	token comment:sym<#> { '#' {} \N* } # what does {} mean in a token rule?
03:30	Wolfman2000	back from dinner and company
03:30		eternaleye joined #perl6
03:30	Wolfman2000	don't know how much I'll be able to get done tonight
03:32	diakopter	std: my $a-- = 3; say $a;
03:32	p6eval	std 29173: ok 00:01 105m␤
03:32	diakopter	rakudo: my $a-- = 3; say $a;
03:32	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: -1␤
03:33	diakopter	ng: my $a-- = 3; say $a;
03:33	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Cannot assign to readonly value␤current instr.: '&infix:<=>' pc 7550 (src/builtins/assign.pir:12)␤
03:33	* diakopter	golf claps
03:34		envi^office joined #perl6
03:43		petdance joined #perl6
03:49	eternaleye	diakopter: nqp doesn't have =, just := iirc
03:49	eternaleye	oh wait, that's ng not nqp
03:49	* eternaleye	is not at full functionality
03:53		JimmyZ joined #perl6
04:00		LionMade1fLions joined #perl6
04:06	diakopter	nqp: my $a := 3; say(--$a); say($a);
04:06	p6eval	nqp: ␤2␤
04:07	diakopter	nqp: my $a := 3; say($a--); say($a);
04:07	p6eval	nqp: 3␤2␤
04:07		BinGOs_ joined #perl6
04:07	diakopter	pmichaud_: ^^
04:08	diakopter	pmichaud_: same for preincrement
04:08	Wolfman2000	Hmm...unfortunately, I'm unsure about being able to pull off an MD5 or SHA demo for my cryptography project using Perl 6. Oh well: I've already got plenty.
04:10	Wolfman2000	...as a reminder, what are the Perl shifting operations?
04:19	diakopter	ng: say (my $a=4)--.WHAT; # pmichaud_ I don't think this is correct - dotty following postdecrement?
04:19	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Int()␤
04:19		eternaleye joined #perl6
04:20	quietfanatic	I don't think anything's wrong with it.
04:21	quietfanatic	Is there any specific reason to disallow dotty after postfix?
04:21	TimToady	nope
04:21	TimToady	dotty is a postfix
04:21		stepnem joined #perl6
04:21	TimToady	so if we disallowed that, we've have to disallow $x.foo.bar as well :)
04:21		eternaleye joined #perl6
04:23	quietfanatic	In general, I'm in favor of more allowing syntax rather than more restricting syntax.
04:24		LionMadeOfLions joined #perl6
04:24	diakopter	rakudo: my $a = 5; say ++($a++); say $a; my $b = 5; say ++$b++; say $b;
04:24	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 6␤6␤6␤7␤
04:24	diakopter	ng: my $a = 5; say ++($a++); say $a; my $b = 5; say ++$b++; say $b;
04:24	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Cannot assign to readonly value␤current instr.: '&infix:<=>' pc 7550 (src/builtins/assign.pir:12)␤
04:25	Wolfman2000	rakudo: my $a = 1; say $a << 1; # Does this even work?
04:25	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: Confused at line 2, near "<< 1; # Do"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
04:25	* Wolfman2000	better check the synopsis
04:25	quietfanatic	Well, Rakudo does get that first wrong, $a should end up 7
04:25	diakopter	std: my $a = 1; say $a << 1; # Does this even work?
04:25	p6eval	std 29173: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Obsolete use of << to do left shift; in Perl 6 please use +< or ~< instead at /tmp/6HNHyTV6eu line 1:␤------> [32mmy $a = 1; say $a << [33m⏏[31m1; # Does this even work?[0m␤FAILED 00:01 105m␤
04:26	quietfanatic	Wolfman2000: I don't think there's a << operator
04:26	Wolfman2000	if nothing else, thanks for that
04:26	quietfanatic	Ah
04:26	diakopter	(see the error message above)
04:26	diakopter	very much !LTA error message
04:26	Wolfman2000	diakopter++ / quietfanatic: I was debating adding a MD5/SHA program to my cryptography project, but...honestly, I'm out of time right now.
04:26	Wolfman2000	Still, learning how to shift bits should be good.
04:27	Wolfman2000	Just...not when I'm pressured.
04:28	Wolfman2000	...I do wonder. Does Perl 6 have any official cryptography modules yet, or should they just be remade from the Digest::* series?
04:30	carlin	November has Digest implementation in mostly PIR but other than that I don't think there is anything yet
04:30	Wolfman2000	...perhaps that will be a good project for me to look at this Thanksgiving.
04:30	Wolfman2000	You guys want more implementations with Perl 6 I assume...I can just add it to my Feather directories.
04:31	diakopter	std: sub x3() {}; sub x55() {}; my $a = 55; say $a-x3-x55; # TimToady hilite
04:31	p6eval	std 29173: Potential difficulties:␤ Variable $a-x3-x55 is not predeclared at /tmp/dUbnCbTHLS line 1:␤------> [32m sub x55() {}; my $a = 55; say $a-x3-x55[33m⏏[31m; # TimToady hilite[0m␤ok 00:01 106m␤
04:32	Wolfman2000	std: sub x3() {}; sub x55() {}; my $a = 55; say $a - x3() - x55(); # Wonder if this works.
04:32	p6eval	std 29173: ok 00:01 106m␤
04:32	Wolfman2000	rakudo: sub x3() {}; sub x55() {}; my $a = 55; say $a - x3() - x55(); # Wonder if this works.
04:32	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 55␤
04:32	Wolfman2000	diakopter: How do we run std on the command line anyway? It seems to give better error messages than rakudo does
04:34	diakopter	yeah, I knew that would work; I guess it's an issue of error messages. if it finds a non-predeclared variable name and it contains a hyphen, warn about minus symbol being taken as a hypen in a variable name
04:35	quietfanatic	If the left part is a predeclared variable?
04:36	diakopter	Wolfman2000: in the pugs/src/perl6 dir (after blanking the PERL5LIB as discussed previously), run ./viv -e 'code to syntax check/compile'
04:36	TimToady	or if you don't want the tree, >filename and then ./tryfile filename
04:37	TimToady	or >/dev/null your viv
04:37	Wolfman2000	...sounds like I should just make pugs/src/perl6 part of my path
04:37	TimToady	and just let stderr out
04:37	TimToady	probably won't work
04:37	diakopter	Wolfman2000: no, you need to be in that dir
04:37	TimToady	it's not really productized or installable yet
04:37	TimToady	and assumes its cache and lib are in .
04:38	TimToady	what you can do is make a symlink from elsewhere into that dir; I do that with the t/ directory
04:38	TimToady	then tryfile t/spec/foo.t
04:39	Wolfman2000	I'll look into that...tomorrow night. I think I need sleep now...big day tomorrow.
04:39	Wolfman2000	I get to show my class my project with Perl 6 in action.
04:39	Wolfman2000	TimToady: I gave you extra credit on my sources too.
04:39	TimToady	:D
04:40	Wolfman2000	Hopefully Feather won't be down...otherwise, it will be slightly embarassing
04:40	Wolfman2000	Just have to survive until 8 PM EST
04:45		envi^home joined #perl6
05:01	TimToady	rakudo: say 1,2,3 X 4,5,6
05:01	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 141516242526343536␤
05:02	TimToady	colomon: note lack of parens works ^^
05:06	TimToady	rakudo: say ('㊀'..'㊉').pick
05:06	TimToady	that's an infinite loop, seemingly
05:06	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: ( no output )
05:06	TimToady	didn't used to be
05:07		hicx174 joined #perl6
05:17	diakopter	rakudo: '㊀'..'㊉'.pick
05:17	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: maximum recursion depth exceeded␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
05:18	facsimile	rakudo: '㊀'..'㊉'.
05:18	facsimile	rakudo: '㊀'..'㊉'
05:18	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: Confused at line 2, near "."␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
05:18	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: ( no output )
05:18	diakopter	ok...
05:18	facsimile	rakudo: say '㊀'..'㊉'
05:18	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: ( no output )
05:18	facsimile	rakudo: say 'a'..'z'
05:19	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz␤
05:21		meteorjay joined #perl6
05:21		luqui joined #perl6
05:22		jaldhar joined #perl6
05:42		pure1111 joined #perl6
06:02		ashizawa joined #perl6
06:17		pnate2 joined #perl6
06:39		snearch joined #perl6
06:50		ihrd joined #perl6
06:50		ihrd left #perl6
06:53	colomon	TimToady: thanks!
06:53	colomon	hmmm....
06:54	colomon	rakudo: (1..3 X 4..6).say
06:54	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 141516242526343536␤
06:54	colomon	:)
07:04		Jeffreykegler joined #perl6
07:06		TiMBuS joined #perl6
07:11		kaare joined #perl6
07:23		meppl joined #perl6
07:27		envi^home joined #perl6
07:33		eternaleye joined #perl6
08:00		szabgab joined #perl6
08:03		barney joined #perl6
08:15	mathw	Morning
08:15	moritz_	good morning
08:15	diakopter	mhu
08:16		jaldhar joined #perl6
08:16	moritz_	rho
08:22	moritz_	(Raphael Descamps)++ # "In that sense, Perl 6 stay a postmodern ironic programming language ;)"
08:32		Su-Shee joined #perl6
08:32	Su-Shee	good morning.
08:34	moritz_	hi Su-Shee
08:35	sjohnson	hello
08:39	mathw	moritz_: a postmodern ironic programming language??
08:42		rfordinal joined #perl6
08:47		iblechbot joined #perl6
08:51		rgrau joined #perl6
08:53	moritz_	mathw: read the last comment on http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/is-perl-6-really-perl.writeback
08:55	mathw	aaah
08:55	mathw	yes that seems accurate
08:56	* moritz_	just liked the term
08:58	Su-Shee	postmodernism already contains irony as a concept.
08:59	moritz_	so it's doubly ironic :-)
09:00		kaare joined #perl6
09:00	Su-Shee	you should add one or two references to foucault at some point. ;)
09:01	* moritz_	only knows the foucault pendulum
09:03	moritz_	such is the ignorance of the natural scientists
09:03	moritz_	(at least of one of them :-)
09:04	Su-Shee	michel foucault -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault - no postmodernism without the french fellows.. ;)
09:04	moritz_	yeah, found the wiki already :-)
09:05	Su-Shee	well, it's easy. start with nietzsche and read from marx over freud to the french brainfuckers and there you have it. ;)
09:06		wollmers joined #perl6
09:07	moritz_	as long as you don't suggest to "just" read Kant... :-)
09:07	wollmers	std: say 1;
09:07	p6eval	std 29173: ok 00:01 105m␤
09:07	wollmers	moritz: Kant is boring because of the complex German language
09:08	moritz_	I don't think he's boring; just hard to read
09:09		flip214 joined #perl6
09:09	wollmers	Yea, I read 'Kritik der reinen Vernunft' ~35 years ago.
09:09	flip214	Hello everybody ....
09:09	flip214	it's me again with a few questions.
09:09	flip214	As usual.
09:10	wollmers	std: "a" ~~ m/<isL>/
09:10	p6eval	std 29173: ok 00:01 105m␤
09:10	mathw	flip214: ask away
09:10	* moritz_	wasn't even born ~35 years ago
09:10	wollmers	std: "a" ~~ m/<isBidiClass:L>/
09:10	p6eval	std 29173: ok 00:01 104m␤
09:11	wollmers	rakudo: "a" ~~ m/<isBidiClass:L>/
09:11	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: Confused at line 2, near "/"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
09:11	Su-Shee	moritz_: you "just" read Kant, I "just" learn Math. ;)
09:11	flip214	Is there a way to give perl6 some additional directories where to look for libraries? A "-Ilib:~/lib" or something like that.
09:11	flip214	I think that PERL5LIB won't work ;-)
09:11	mathw	there's PERL6LIB
09:11	moritz_	flip214: nope, it's PERl6LIB
09:11	moritz_	:-)
09:12	mathw	I'm not sure Rakudo accepts a command line option for search path
09:12	moritz_	there's also BEGIN { @*INC.push: 'lib' } in the code
09:12	Su-Shee	doesn't pushing on @*INC work?
09:12	flip214	Is there a -I switch? I didn't find one.
09:12	Su-Shee	ah well. :)
09:12	mathw	Su-Shee: you have to do it in the BEGIN block, but yes, it does :)
09:12	Su-Shee	I thought so, I already used it somewhere. ;)
09:12	mathw	(obviously if you do it outside BEGIN, it doesn't happen until after the module search has happened)
09:13	moritz_	which is fine if you only use use in an eval block at run time :-)
09:13	wollmers	perl6: "a" ~~ m/<isBidiClass:L>/
09:13	p6eval	pugs: Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {␤ unshift @INC, '/home/p6eval/.cabal/share/Pugs-6.2.13.14/blib6/pugs/perl5/lib';␤ eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;␤}␤'Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge'␤"␤*** '<HANDLE>' trapped by operation mas…
09:13	p6eval	..elf 29173: ( no output )
09:13	p6eval	..rakudo 7347ec: Confused at line 2, near "/"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
09:13	moritz_	s/block /
09:13	flip214	Ok, I'll use PERL6LIB, until -I has arrived
09:13	moritz_	rakudo: /<a :b>/
09:13	mathw	moritz_: let's not go there
09:13	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: Confused at line 2, near "/"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
09:13	moritz_	mathw: ok :-)
09:13	flip214	and another question: I have problems exporting a constant
09:14	flip214	rakudo: say $C; module T; constant $C='aaaa' is export;
09:14	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: Confused at line 2, near "is export;"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
09:14	flip214	there's no "is export" on constants, is there?
09:15	wollmers	moritz: The syntax for non-boolean unicode properties seems unspecced. In Perl 5 it is \p{BidiClass:L}.
09:15	moritz_	flip214: not yet
09:17	moritz_	std: /<isBidiClass(:L)>/
09:17	p6eval	std 29173: ok 00:01 104m␤
09:17	moritz_	wollmers: that would be my preference
09:18	wollmers	moritz: OK, looks nice.
09:18	moritz_	if you write <before foo>, the foo is a regex
09:19	moritz_	so I think that <isBidiClass:L> or with space <isBidiClass :L> looks misleading
09:19	moritz_	but I could be wrong here
09:19	moritz_	and in the end it's TimToady's calls
09:30	moritz_	dev.perl.org now links to perl6.org
09:37	wollmers	std: /<isBidiClass(:L)+isBidiClass(:R)>/
09:37	p6eval	std 29173: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unable to parse metachar__S_477Lt_Gt; couldn't find final '>' at /tmp/6oMJAVAV6y line 1:␤------> [32m/<isBidiClass(:L)[33m⏏[31m+isBidiClass(:R)>/[0m␤FAILED 00:01 104m␤
09:38	wollmers	std: /<isBidiClass(:L) +isBidiClass(:R)>/
09:38	p6eval	std 29173: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unable to parse metachar__S_477Lt_Gt; couldn't find final '>' at /tmp/n2r3YD8DAv line 1:␤------> [32m/<isBidiClass(:L)[33m⏏[31m +isBidiClass(:R)>/[0m␤FAILED 00:01 103m␤
09:43	wollmers	std: /<isLetter +isNumber>/
09:43	p6eval	std 29173: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤quantifier quantifies nothing at /tmp/Hknb14RHFJ line 1:␤------> [32m/<isLetter +[33m⏏[31misNumber>/[0m␤ expecting quantmod␤FAILED 00:01 103m␤
09:44	moritz_	std: / <+isLetter +isNumber>/
09:44	p6eval	std 29173: ok 00:01 104m␤
09:44	moritz_	std: / <+isLetter(:foo) +isNumber>/
09:44	p6eval	std 29173: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unable to parse metachar__S_477Lt_Gt; couldn't find final '>' at /tmp/fTXy70FRB3 line 1:␤------> [32m/ <+isLetter[33m⏏[31m(:foo) +isNumber>/[0m␤ expecting any of:␤ character class element␤ normspace␤ sign␤FAILED 00:01 103m␤
09:45		ejs joined #perl6
09:46	wollmers	std: m/ <[aeiou]+[tlc]> /
09:46	p6eval	std 29173: ok 00:01 104m␤
09:50	wollmers	std: m/ <isL+[isN]> /
09:50	p6eval	std 29173: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤quantifier quantifies nothing at /tmp/jFAf3V6Dfr line 1:␤------> [32mm/ <isL+[33m⏏[31m[isN]> /[0m␤ expecting quantmod␤FAILED 00:01 106m␤
09:51	wollmers	std: m/ <isL+isN> /
09:51	p6eval	std 29173: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤quantifier quantifies nothing at /tmp/2VF0zXPnR7 line 1:␤------> [32mm/ <isL+[33m⏏[31misN> /[0m␤ expecting quantmod␤FAILED 00:01 103m␤
09:51	wollmers	std: m/ <[abc]+[cde]> /
09:51	p6eval	std 29173: ok 00:01 104m␤
09:52	wollmers	std: m/ <[abc] +[cde]> /
09:52	p6eval	std 29173: ok 00:01 104m␤
09:52	wollmers	std: m/ <isL +[cde]> /
09:52	p6eval	std 29173: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤quantifier quantifies nothing at /tmp/zUFvMa0R1M line 1:␤------> [32mm/ <isL +[33m⏏[31m[cde]> /[0m␤ expecting quantmod␤FAILED 00:01 103m␤
09:54	mathw	moritz_: one of the earlier comments on that article questions the explicitness of TMTOWTDI. I always felt that it was very explicit, and very deliberate. Agree?
09:54	moritz_	agreed.
09:54		ejs1 joined #perl6
09:55	moritz_	for example map and for are synonymous, and that's about as explicit as you can get :-)
09:55	mathw	yes
09:55	mathw	also $obj.method(arg, arg, arg);
09:55	mathw	$obj.method: arg, arg, arg;
09:55	mathw	and the is export on most of the builtin methods
09:56	mathw	it's highly explicit in Perl 6
09:56	mathw	oh and with the new S metaoperator, I believe you can use hyperoperators as various exact synonyms for looping
10:06		clintongormley joined #perl6
10:08		Guest56850 joined #perl6
10:18	wollmers	std: m/ <+isL+isN> /
10:18	p6eval	std 29173: ok 00:01 104m␤
10:18		beggars joined #perl6
10:19	moritz_	std: <a b c>S>>.uc
10:19	p6eval	std 29173: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix > instead at /tmp/t2aeMg8lB6 line 1:␤------> [32m<a b c>S>>[33m⏏[31m.uc[0m␤ expecting any of:␤ infix or meta-infix␤ infix stopper␤ standard stopper␤ terminator␤FAILED 00:01 104m␤
10:20	moritz_	mathw: at least STD.pm doesn't like it as postfixish
10:22	mathw	moritz_: something in larry's spec update mentioned you could use it with certain forms, but it may be that it only works with infixish hypers
10:24	mathw	moritz_: a S»op« b single-threaded hyperop
10:25	mathw	but apparently not with postfix forms
10:25	mathw	which would be nice, but I guess could cause all sorts of mess with the parsing
10:29	spinclad_	diakopter: re # what does {} do: aiui, {} is an empty closure that ends the fixed part of the token for LTM purposes.
10:34	mathw	how often are the HTML synopses generated?
10:40		jferrero joined #perl6
10:43		rfordinal left #perl6
10:50	diakopter	spinclad_: thanks
10:51	diakopter	urgh; 'tis late
10:57	diakopter	mathw: I think at the top of every hour
11:00		sRc joined #perl6
11:00		sRc left #perl6
11:06		hanekomu joined #perl6
11:07	* diakopter	asked http://code.google.com/p/v8/issues/detail?id=523
11:21	flip214	I just read about the "S" metaoperator ...
11:22	flip214	But I don't understand how there can be a "short-circuited XOR junction"
11:23	moritz_	flip214: an xor with more than two arguments is true if exactly one of the arguments is true
11:23	moritz_	flip214: so as soon as two True values are found, it can short-circuit
11:24	flip214	is that so?
11:24	flip214	rakudo: say 1 ^ 1 ^ 1 ^ 0;
11:24	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: one(1, 1, 1, 0)␤
11:24	flip214	rakudo: say 1 ^^ 1 ^^ 1 ^^ 0;
11:24	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 1␤
11:25	moritz_	rakudo is wrong here
11:25	flip214	I understand XOR as "parity" generation, ie. if an odd number is set
11:25	moritz_	that's the other possible interpretation
11:26	flip214	Hmm, I didn't even know that the computer-XOR has more than the one interpretation
11:26	flip214	are we sure that this won't break some assumptions?
11:27	flip214	I can see use cases for "exclusive-OR", too ...
11:28	flip214	How would one get _my_ XOR? parity generation over bit/binary/boolean values?
11:29	moritz_	@list.reduce: &[^^]
11:29	lambdabot	Unknown command, try @list
11:30	moritz_	or [^^] @values
11:30	flip214	rakudo: my @list=1,1,1,1,0; say [^^] @values;
11:30	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: say requires an argument at line 2, near " [^^] @val"␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 2593)␤
11:31	flip214	rakudo: my @list=1,1,1,1,0; say [^^] @list;;
11:31	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: say requires an argument at line 2, near " [^^] @lis"␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 2593)␤
11:31	moritz_	rakudo: say [^^] 1,1,1,1,0
11:31	Gothmog_	moritz_: I don't understand what you said, either. Could you define your interpretation of XOR?
11:31	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: say requires an argument at line 2, near " [^^] 1,1,"␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 2593)␤
11:31	flip214	rakudo: my @list=1,1,1,1,0; say @list.».infix:<^^>;
11:31	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: Confused at line 2, near ":<^^>;"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
11:31	moritz_	Gothmog_: XOR = exactly one of the inputs is True
11:32	Gothmog_	Ah.
11:32	Gothmog_	So you're just talking about two different things.
11:32	flip214	I'd like to get some way to get parity generation; either for Booleans, or over some Int values
11:32	flip214	rakudo: say 3 ^^ 4;
11:32	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: ␤
11:32	flip214	rakudo: say 3 ^ 4;
11:32	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: one(3, 4)␤
11:33	flip214	rakudo: say 3 xor 4;
11:33	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 3␤
11:33	Gothmog_	flip214: moritz talks about xor(a1, a2, a3, ..., an) while you talk about xor(a1, xor(a2, xor(, ..., xor(a(n-1), an))...)
11:33	moritz_	flip214: [?^] for booleans, [+^] for ints
11:33	flip214	rakudo: say 3 +^ 4;
11:33	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 7␤
11:33	flip214	ah yes, thank you
11:33	flip214	that's it
11:33	moritz_	rakudo: say [?^] 1, 1, 1, 1, 0
11:33	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 0␤
11:33	moritz_	rakudo: say [?^] 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1
11:33	flip214	rakudo: say [+^] 1,1,1,0;
11:33	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 1␤
11:34	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 1␤
11:34	flip214	rakudo: say [+^] 1,1,1,0,3;
11:34	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 2␤
11:34	moritz_	Gothmog_++ # thata's exactly it, but I was too stupid to explain it
11:34	flip214	fine
11:34	flip214	rakudo: say [~] 1,1,1,0,3;
11:34	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 11103␤
11:35	flip214	rakudo: say [?^] 1,1,1,0,3;
11:35	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 1␤
11:35	flip214	so that's wrong?
11:35		SmokeMachine joined #perl6
11:35	flip214	rakudo should return false here?
11:35	flip214	rakudo: say [?^] 1,1;
11:35	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 0␤
11:35	flip214	rakudo: say [?^] 1,0;
11:35	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 1␤
11:36	flip214	rakudo: say [?^] 1,0,1,0,1;
11:36	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 1␤
11:36	flip214	rakudo: say [?^] 1,False,1,0,3;
11:36	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 1␤
11:37	moritz_	[?^] 1,1,1,0,3 is ((((1 xor 1) xor 1) xor 0) xor 3)
11:37	moritz_	if you want number of true values
11:37	moritz_	grep True, @values
11:37	moritz_	rakudo: say +(grep True, 1,0,1,0,1)
11:38	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 5␤
11:38	moritz_	nope, wrong
11:38	moritz_	rakudo: say +(grep {$_}, 1,0,1,0,1)
11:38	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 3␤
11:38	moritz_	rakudo: say +(grep {$_}, 1,0,1,0,1) % 2
11:38	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 1␤
11:38	moritz_	better
11:43	Su-Shee	does rakudo have a -T? (or is getting one?)
11:44	moritz_	not yet
11:45	mathw	diakopter: well, SO3 doesn't seem to have been done for a few days, unless there's a cache somewhere in my way
11:47	moritz_	This page was generated at 2009-11-07 16:01:24 GMT.
11:48	mathw	quite
11:48	mathw	it doesn't have the S metaop in it
11:52	moritz_	the issue is a missing CPAN module on feather
11:55	flip214	sorry, 've been away ...
11:56	flip214	moritz: but that sounds a bit awful, performance-wise ... all I want to know is the even/odd information, and for that a complete list is built again, just to check it's length?
11:57	flip214	I think the [?^] and [+^] will work for me ...
11:57	flip214	If they don't (or I don't think they do, because I'm mistaken again), I'll be back
11:57	flip214	Thank you all the same
11:58	mathw	moritz_: Ah good, at least it's relatively solvable
12:01		envi^home joined #perl6
12:05	moritz_	except that I tried to build .deb packages for it, and failed epically
12:05	moritz_	it requires Test::Harness::Straps
12:05	moritz_	dh-make-perl --cpan Test::Harness::Straps tells me it's a core module
12:05	mathw	hmm
12:05	mathw	that's odd
12:06	moritz_	but dh-make-perl --cpan Test::TAP::Model writes a dependency for libtest-harness-straps-perl
12:10		snearch joined #perl6
12:10	moritz_	info: 956 smartlinks found and 54 broken in 730 test files (177 test files had no links).
12:10	moritz_	that's... bad
12:11	moritz_	I had it down to 3 broken links or so a few months ago
12:17	moritz_	S\d\d are now regenerated.
12:17	mathw	moritz_++
12:21	rjh	I just noticed, nobody here ever uses the negative karma option. My company's IRC is a bit different :)
12:21	moritz_	rjh: that's because destructive contributions are really rare here
12:22	moritz_	I can't remember a single case of vanadlism in the pugs repo, for instance
12:23	mathw	the only time I've ever seen it is someone demoting themself
12:24	mathw	we use it in my own server's IRC a lot though, usually complaining about various companies and products and politicians :)
12:25	moritz_	and we lambdabot-- occasionally
12:25	moritz_	@karma lambdabot
12:25	lambdabot	lambdabot has a karma of -2
12:26	mathw	yes well
12:26	mathw	that's necessary
12:27	moritz_	and I --'ed somebody for introducing an arbitrary code execution hole in p6eval, as absurd as it sounds :-)
12:29	colomon	ok sign(undef) ~~ undef, 'sign(undef) is undef';
12:29	colomon	does that make any sense as a test?
12:30	colomon	none of the other numeric functions are tested against undef
12:30	* moritz_	wasn't sure, just took what the spec said
12:30	colomon	ah yes, you are to blame. :)
12:31	moritz_	of course I am, that's my job :-)
12:32	colomon	dear heavens, that is what the spec says
12:32	colomon	freaky
12:32	* moritz_	mentally links to his recent blog post "why I commit crud to the Perl 6 test suite" :-)
12:33	colomon	on the other hand, I don't see anything there about sign(Complex) == undef, and you added that, too.
12:38	moritz_	that was based on a discussion in RT and a comment from TimToady
12:38		zamolxes joined #perl6
12:39	moritz_	Complex.Num fail()s for $.im != 0, and sign() notionally just propagates that failure
12:39	colomon	why not a 1+0i test too, then?
12:40	* colomon	is busy adding tests to sign...
12:40	moritz_	rakudo: say sign(1+0i).perl
12:40	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: undef␤
12:40	moritz_	hm
12:40	moritz_	colomon: I probably didn't do it because it's not really spec yet
12:43	colomon	okay, make break spectest for a few minutes here....
12:44	pugs_svn	r29174 \| colomon++ \| [t/spec] Add tests for method form, Rats, and Num.
12:46		Helios joined #perl6
12:46	colomon	actually, could someone grab that and test it against master?
12:47	* colomon	didn't realize getting the latest master would be so involved...
12:48	colomon	sign.t
12:57	* colomon	did indeed break spectest
12:58	pmichaud_	good morning, #perl6
12:58	colomon	\o/
12:59	pmichaud_	ng: 'abc' ~~ / b { say "matched it, we did!" } /
12:59	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Symbol '$¢' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 137 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:101)␤
13:00	pmichaud_	hmmmm
13:01	moritz_	does it work locally for you?
13:01	moritz_	and good morning pmichaud_ :-)
13:02	pmichaud_	oh, it probably breaks locally for me as well. I think I just fail to declare $¢ in regex blocks.
13:03		bluescreen joined #perl6
13:08		takadonet joined #perl6
13:08	takadonet	hey all
13:09	* colomon	is getting into twisty loops of testing logic.... master spectest passes again locally on his machine, but he knows his implementation is incorrect, therefore the tests must be also incomplete...
13:10		pnate2 joined #perl6
13:13		payload joined #perl6
13:13	dalek	rakudo: 1445ba3 \| (Solomon Foster)++ \| src/setting/ (2 files):
13:13	dalek	rakudo: Rough but working versions of Int.sign and Rat.sign.
13:13	dalek	rakudo: Actually, these pass the spectest but the Rat.sign one is definitely returning the wrong thing. Will try to correct both spectest and code shortly.
13:13	dalek	rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1445ba3f8b99b65a0040f6bd39ce19188c550d09
13:14	colomon	rakudo: say 1 eq 4/4
13:14	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 1␤
13:15	* moritz_	surprised
13:15	colomon	that's why the incorrect tests pass
13:16	colomon	it's a quasi-sensible result, but means we're not correctly testing the type returned by sign.
13:16	moritz_	well, numeric tests should generally not rely on is()
13:16	moritz_	they should use is_approx, or ok $a == $b
13:16	moritz_	and then isa_ok for checking the return type
13:17	colomon	I guess I don't see what's wrong with using is for results which should be Ints....
13:17	colomon	and I will add isa_ok checks in a sec.
13:25		ejs1 joined #perl6
13:26	pmichaud_	...why shouldn't numeric tests be using is() ?
13:27	pmichaud_	oh, nm.
13:27	pugs_svn	r29175 \| colomon++ \| [t/spec] Add tests that sign returns Int.
13:27	pmichaud_	things that are floats probably shouldn't be using is()
13:27	pmichaud_	but other tests that contain exact values should use is(), I think.
13:29	cognominal_	pmichaud, what is the meaning of the pasttype 'alt'?
13:29	zaslon	lolmasakhazblogged! masak++ 'November 23 2009 -- of China(s) and cheese': http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/39933?from=rss
13:30		ashizawa joined #perl6
13:30	dalek	rakudo: a55d864 \| (Solomon Foster)++ \| src/setting/ (2 files):
13:30	dalek	rakudo: Fix Int.sign and Rat.sign so they correctly return Ints.
13:30	dalek	rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a55d864e83514b79de45d3904a11f1c0cede67cc
13:32	colomon	Okay, now back to my original goal of getting sign working in ng.
13:32	moritz_	:-)
13:32	colomon	pmichaud_: any chance of quickly sneaking undef into ng? We're not going to pass all of the sign.t tests without it.... :)
13:33		ruoso joined #perl6
13:34	moritz_	phenny: tell masak see http://ali.as/top100/index.html for ideas how to score projects
13:34	phenny	moritz_: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
13:35		ejs2 joined #perl6
13:36	cognominal_	masak, in your article you forgot to say that our great (and benevolent) helmsman left for Taiwan's equivalent
13:36	colomon	oh wow, master's Num.sign is beautiful.
13:36		camenix joined #perl6
13:43	colomon	ng: say NaN ~~ NaN
13:43	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Method 'ACCEPTS' not found for invocant of class 'Float'␤current instr.: '&infix:<~~>' pc 157427 (src/gen/perl6-actions.pir:0)␤
13:43	colomon	ng: say 2 <=> 4
13:43	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Confused at line 1, near "say 2 <=> "␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 519 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:336)␤
13:44	colomon	Well, that's going to make self ~~ NaN ?? NaN !! self <=> 0 a bit tricky now, isn't it?
13:44	moritz_	well, you can implement it :-)
13:44	colomon	ng: say 2 < 4
13:44	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤
13:45	colomon	all right, now that's just getting silly.
13:45	moritz_	or use <, == and > separately
13:45	colomon	;)
13:46	colomon	Seems like the incremental difficulty of implementing <=> over sign is pretty minor... let's give it a go.
13:47	colomon	see how much I can get done before I take the boy to the library for storytime.
13:48	colomon	ng: say 2 cmp 4
13:48	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Confused at line 1, near "say 2 cmp "␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 519 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:336)␤
13:49	colomon	Oh, wait. I suppose ng doesn't have order, either?
13:49	colomon	Order, I mean.
13:49	colomon	ng: Order
13:49	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Could not find non-existent sub &Order␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
13:49	moritz_	I think you suppose correctly :-)
13:49	moritz_	rakudo: Order
13:49	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: ( no output )
13:50	colomon	Okay, maybe I'll just whip together an inelegant sign instead.
13:52		ejs2 joined #perl6
13:54	pmichaud_	moritz_: (undef) Sure, we can haz undef. It would really help if I could nail down what it returns exactly.
13:55	moritz_	pmichaud_: that was colomon... I think by default undef returns the Object type object
13:58	pmichaud_	oh, you're right, that was colomon
13:59	pmichaud_	if undef just returns Object, then it's just
13:59	colomon	and considering my luck so far implementing sign, may have been premature. ;)
13:59	pmichaud_	our sub undef() is export { Object };
13:59	colomon	not Object.net?
13:59	colomon	Object.new?
13:59	pmichaud_	that wouldn't be the type object
13:59	pmichaud_	and in some sense, Object.new should be defined.
13:59	pmichaud_	(whereas we obviously want an undefined object :-)
14:00	colomon	okay.
14:00	moritz_	pmichaud_: uhm, undef should be parsed as a term, not listop
14:01	pmichaud_	moritz_: sure, but I suspect there's still an &undef function somewhere.
14:01	moritz_	pmichaud_: the function is called undefined()
14:01	pmichaud_	that's a different function
14:01	moritz_	std: undef ~~ 1
14:01	p6eval	std 29175: ok 00:01 105m␤
14:01	pmichaud_	undefined() will undef a variable
14:02	moritz_	std: sub a(); a ~~ 1
14:02	p6eval	std 29175: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Missing block at /tmp/b0JqcBS8CV line 1:␤------> [32msub a()[33m⏏[31m; a ~~ 1[0m␤ expecting any of:␤ block␤ routine_def␤ terminator␤ trait␤ whitespace␤FAILED 00:01 104m␤
14:02	moritz_	std: sub a() { }; a ~~ 1
14:02	p6eval	std 29175: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix ~~ instead at /tmp/BPEWNQqh4r line 1:␤------> [32msub a() { }; a ~~[33m⏏[31m 1[0m␤FAILED 00:01 106m␤
14:02	moritz_	pmichaud_: STD.pm doesn't know about an undef() function
14:02	moritz_	you can see it doesn't parse as a listup
14:02	pmichaud_	std: undef()
14:02	colomon	Do named arguments work in ng yet?
14:02	p6eval	std 29175: Undeclared routine:␤ 'undef' used at line 1␤ok 00:01 103m␤
14:02	moritz_	s/up/op/
14:03	pmichaud_	colomon: they should, yes.
14:03	colomon	huh.
14:03	pmichaud_	moritz_: I agree that undef is a term, yes.
14:03	pmichaud_	I'm wondering if there's also an &undef function. I'm fine if there isn't.
14:04	pmichaud_	you're correct that std doesn't recognize one.
14:07	colomon	ng: say sign(1.0e0)
14:07	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Method 'sign' not found for invocant of class 'Num'␤current instr.: '&sign' pc 178053 (src/gen/core.pir:5033)␤
14:08	colomon	ieeeeeeee
14:08	colomon	ng: say 1.0e0.WHAT
14:08	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Int()␤
14:08	colomon	ng: say 1.1e0.WHAT
14:08	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Num()␤
14:08	moritz_	uhm.
14:08	* moritz_	calls that a bug
14:15		szabgab joined #perl6
14:16	colomon	even spookier:
14:16	colomon	ng: say 1.5e1.WHAT
14:16	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Int()␤
14:16	colomon	it's disturbingly smart about it....
14:16	moritz_	ETOOSMART
14:18	pmichaud_	did someone adjust the floating point code?
14:19	pmichaud_	ohhhh, I see.
14:19	colomon	Not me.
14:19	colomon	ng: say NaN == NaN
14:19	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: 0␤
14:19	pmichaud_	internally the code gets converted to a Parrot float
14:19	pmichaud_	so 1.5e1 ends up in the PIR source as "15"
14:19	pmichaud_	which Parrot treats as an Int
14:20	mathw	umm
14:20	mathw	that's not good
14:20	moritz_	so you'd have to go through a $N register?
14:21	pmichaud_	no, we can tell the PAST::Val the exact type of object to be created
14:21	moritz_	that sounds better
14:21	* pmichaud_	tries that.
14:23	pmichaud	> say 1.5e1.WHAT
14:23	pmichaud	Num()
14:23	lambdabot	Not in scope: `say'Not in scope: data constructor `WHAT'
14:23		_jaldhar joined #perl6
14:23	moritz_	lambdabot: learn some context, you fool
14:23	pmichaud	if anyone has a suggestion for a won't-clash-with-lambdabot prompt, we can change that too. :)
14:23	* moritz_	suggests to kick lambdabot instead
14:24	moritz_	zaslon: karma
14:24	zaslon	Sorry, I don't understand that command
14:24	moritz_	zaslon: karma moritz_
14:24	zaslon	Sorry, I don't understand that command
14:24	moritz_	hm, that was mubot
14:24	pmichaud	I was thinking about »ö« as a prompt, but it doesn't quite look right to me in practice.
14:25	moritz_	I'd rather add some karma tracking facilities to hugme and kick lambdabot for good
14:25	pmichaud	I also tried »ö«: as a prompt... that's a little better but still didn't quite look right.
14:25	moritz_	it's too symmetric
14:25	moritz_	a prompt is something asymmetric
14:26	mathw	just kill lambdabot
14:26	mathw	it responds to too many different leading characters
14:26	mathw	bad command set
14:29	colomon	ng: say NaN eq NaN
14:29	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: 1␤
14:29	colomon	ng: say 19 eq NaN
14:29	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: 0␤
14:29	colomon	ng: say NaN.WHAT
14:29	p6eval	ng 3bdb4c: Num()␤
14:31	colomon	btw, in ng plan * seems to generate
14:31	colomon	"1..!whatever_dispatch_helper" for the number of tests....
14:31	moritz_	rakudo: say * ~~ Whatever
14:32	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 1␤
14:32	moritz_	rakudo: say 1 ~~ Whatever
14:32	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 0␤
14:32	moritz_	I guess we can fix plan()
14:33	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: pmichaud++
14:33	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Force 1e0 to build a Num.
14:34		perlygatekeeper joined #perl6
14:34	pugs_svn	r29176 \| colomon++ \| [t/spec] Change 1.5e1 to 1.5e0 to test around current ng bug which makes 1.5e1 an Int.
14:35	colomon	Ironic juxtaposition of those last two commits, eh? :)
14:35		am0c joined #perl6
14:40	pmichaud	we fix bugs and work around them :)
14:43		ejs joined #perl6
14:45	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: colomon++
14:45	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Merge branch 'ng' of gitgithub.com:rakudo/rakudo into ng
14:45	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: colomon++
14:45	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Provide basic implementations of Int.sign, Rat.sign, and Num.sign.
14:45		FullMetalHarlot joined #perl6
14:45	colomon	okay, I just pushed what I've got of sign. The first 33 tests pass, and then the named argument tests blow up.
14:45		iblechbot joined #perl6
14:46	moritz_	is this the multi/proto/named args thing?
14:46	colomon	I've got to take the boy to storytime, and should probably do $work after that, so if someone else could take a look at the named argument thing, that would be cool....
14:46	colomon	moritz_: yes, though I think we thought that worked in ng.
14:47	moritz_	maybe I'll look into it later
14:50		kolibrie joined #perl6
15:07		PacoLinux joined #perl6
15:11		Psyche^ joined #perl6
15:21		hudnix joined #perl6
15:24		Bzek joined #perl6
15:27	[particle]1	rakudo: use v6; say 'hi';
15:27	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: hi␤
15:29	moritz_	rakudo: #=======␤#=======␤use v6;
15:30	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: Could not find non-existent sub v6␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤
15:30	moritz_	there you go
15:31	moritz_	std: #=======␤#=======␤use v6;
15:31	p6eval	std 29176: ok 00:01 104m␤
15:31		payload joined #perl6
15:38		alester joined #perl6
15:39		rfordinal joined #perl6
15:43		ejs joined #perl6
15:44	moritz_	(for the record: bug reported)
15:44	moritz_	I've found a computationally very expensive way to calculate a sine function
15:45	Gothmog_	Picking a double by random and checking for correctness?
15:45	moritz_	do a quantum mechanical tight-binding simulation of a wire with spin-orbit coupling
15:45	moritz_	and then look at the spin conductance as a function of the spin-orbit coupling strength
15:46	Gothmog_	bzzt
15:50	pmichaud	hmmm. I don't think term:<undef> can simply return the Object type object
15:50	pmichaud	because then $x ~~ undef doesn't dtrt
15:51	pmichaud	so whatever undef returns, it's likely not a type object.
15:51	pmichaud	(or not only a type object)
15:52	moritz_	unless Object.ACCEPTS is special-cased
15:52	pmichaud	special-cased how?
15:53	moritz_	if !$.defined && $?CLASS === Object { !.defined } else { normal type check logic }
15:53	moritz_	but I really don't think that's a good answer
15:53	pmichaud	surely not $?CLASS
15:53	moritz_	right
15:53	moritz_	self.WHAT
15:57	pmichaud	S02:1077
15:57	pmichaud	(The C<undef> function merely returns the most
15:57	pmichaud	generic C<Failure> object.)
16:00	pmichaud	afk for a bit
16:10		cognominal_ joined #perl6
16:10		Woody2143 joined #perl6
16:15		jnthn joined #perl6
16:15		Gothmog_ joined #perl6
16:18	jnthn	oh hai
16:18	* jnthn	is back from Latvia
16:19	moritz_	oh it's jnthn
16:22		wanradt joined #perl6
16:24	pmichaud	jnthn: wb!
16:25	jnthn	pmichaud: Thanks.
16:25	* jnthn	spent his plane ride reading a paper on metamodels. :-)
16:25	pmichaud	as opposed to a meta description of paper models?
16:26	pmichaud	or perhaps it was a ride on paper plane metamodels?
16:27	pmichaud	jnthn: you mentioned (I think) about reworking some of the role stuff?
16:29		Wolfman2000 joined #perl6
16:30	jnthn	pmichaud: I already did start on that, but I ain't done yet.
16:30	jnthn	pmichaud: Well, it's onto the nth evolution since the original. :-)
16:30	Wolfman2000	Morning. There is a slim chance I can pull off MD5/SHA. The big question is...can I write a program within 75 minutes?
16:30	pmichaud	jnthn: is it a significant change in terms of how roles are created/used internally?
16:30	moritz_	Wolfman2000: you might want to look in the November source code
16:31	moritz_	Wolfman2000: I think the use parrot's md5/sha1 libraries somewhere in there
16:31	moritz_	s/the/thez/
16:31	Wolfman2000	moritz_: Where is that source code located?
16:31	moritz_	they
16:31	jnthn	pmichaud: Most of the big changes are already in place.
16:31	moritz_	pointme: november
16:31	pointme	viklund's november is at http://github.com/viklund/november/
16:31	pmichaud	jnthn: okay
16:31	jnthn	pmichaud: That is to say, we construct it through the metamodelish stuff.
16:31	moritz_	Wolfman2000: tehre you go
16:31	pmichaud	jnthn: in the current ng branch?
16:31	jnthn	pmichaud: Right.
16:31	Wolfman2000	Is everything located at github?
16:31	pmichaud	jnthn: okay, excellent.
16:31	moritz_	Wolfman2000: nope
16:31	pmichaud	I'm going to take a crack a the Failure role today, I think.
16:31	jnthn	pmichaud: There may be more to come.
16:31	moritz_	Wolfman2000: we have on or two gitorious projects, and some are in the pugs repo...
16:32	jnthn	pmichaud: Well, there will be because I'm not finished making them work again yet.
16:32	jnthn	pmichaud: I meant more, in the future we may need to tweak it further.
16:32	Wolfman2000	...and why am I not surprised to see PIR in here?
16:33	moritz_	because that's the oldest way to interact with parrot?
16:33	jnthn	pmichaud: I'm happy I'm close enough to working out what's needed for now, so I just need to write a bunch of code. :-)
16:34	Wolfman2000	moritz_: Soon as I locate the init and update functions, I can possibly use it. Otherwise, I get to relearn bit operations.
16:34		facsimile joined #perl6
16:37	PerlJam	good morning all
16:42		rfordinal joined #perl6
16:43	Wolfman2000	...okay, I think my connection is back.
16:43	Wolfman2000	...I need a reminder. How big our Perl 6 ints normally? 32 bit or 64 bit?
16:44	Wolfman2000	How big are*
16:44	pmichaud	do you mean "int" or "Int"?
16:44	moritz_	it's the wrong question :-)
16:44	Wolfman2000	pmichaud: Int
16:44	moritz_	Int is meant to be arbitrary precision
16:44	pmichaud	...what moritz++ said
16:44	moritz_	s/precision/size/
16:44		KyleHa joined #perl6
16:44	moritz_	but isn't yet in Rakudo
16:45	moritz_	the actual size is platform dependent
16:45	Wolfman2000	...what is it on Feather?
16:45	moritz_	again a wrong question :/
16:45	Wolfman2000	I compiled rakudo via normal means. I don't recall passing any command line switches.
16:46	* moritz_	doesn't know
16:46	pmichaud	Wolfman2000: "Int" doesn't have a "size"
16:46	Wolfman2000	pmichaud: I'm asking about rakudo at this point.
16:46	pmichaud	Wolfman2000: in rakudo, at this point, Int's larger than 32 bits spill over to become Num
16:46	moritz_	Wolfman2000: does t/spec/S03-operators/overflow.t pass on feather?
16:48	Wolfman2000	moritz_: let me find that directory and then run perl...5 or 6 on it?
16:48	moritz_	Wolfman2000: rakudo
16:49	moritz_	make testable
16:49		perigrin joined #perl6
16:49	moritz_	then just ./perl6 t/spec/S03-operators/overflow.t
16:49	Wolfman2000	test 18 is not ok, then it chokes due to floating point exception
16:50	moritz_	then it's probably a 32bit parrot
16:50	Wolfman2000	...guess I'll have to bide my time as I originally thought
16:51	Wolfman2000	Oh well: I've got plenty for my project anyway. At least you guys will get some credit.
16:51	pmichaud	I don't think it matters what sort of parrot one has
16:51		rfordinal left #perl6
16:51	moritz_	hm, overflow.t passes for me
16:52	moritz_	pmichaud: what else could it depend on? availability of gmp?
16:52	pmichaud	moritz_: possibly, yes.
16:52	pmichaud	moritz_: but rakudo actually explicitly checks for values outside of 32-bit
16:53	moritz_	and then.. does what?
16:53	jnthn	Aye, I remember seeing those recently.
16:53	pmichaud	if outside of 32-bit, makes it a num
16:53	KyleHa	I think overflow.t passes due to bogosity.
16:53	pmichaud	http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/master/src/builtins/op.pir#L19
16:54	KyleHa	Its tests are designed for a 32-bit arch. It always passes for me on amd64.
16:54	pmichaud	many of the overflow.t tests came from the p5 test suite, iiuc
16:54	pmichaud	(which also tended to look at things at the 32-bit boundary)
16:54	moritz_	KyleHa: they should pass on all platforms
16:54	moritz_	KyleHa: so they're not bogus
16:55	moritz_	KyleHa: just maybe not good enough, in some sense
16:55	KyleHa	Yes, that's a much better way to say it.
16:55	mathw	afternoon
16:56	Wolfman2000	as a heads up, I don't think rakudo likes my @r[64]; yet. Must be the [64] part.
16:56	jnthn	hi mathw :_)
16:56	jnthn	Wolfman2000: Aye, sized arrays are nyi.
16:56	* PerlJam	reads about the S meta-op which he appears to have missed the arrival of
16:57	mathw	PerlJam: That was only the other day
16:58	pmichaud	PerlJam: yes, I missed it also.
16:58	PerlJam	mathw: forever ago in internet time :)
16:58		felipe joined #perl6
16:58	moritz_	std: 1 S& 3
16:58	p6eval	std 29176: ok 00:01 105m␤
16:58	moritz_	std: 1 S+ 3
16:58	p6eval	std 29176: ok 00:01 103m␤
17:00	PerlJam	apparently I missed "anon" as well.
17:00	mathw	I'm not quite sure what 'anon' is for yet
17:01	mathw	I haven't read the full thing
17:02	KyleHa	I think it's for declaring a sub that returns a particular type without having to use 'my' or 'our'.
17:02	KyleHa	Something like $x = anon Str sub { 'ha ha' };
17:03	pmichaud	interesting. so one could do $x = anon Str sub xyz { 'ha ha' } to get a sub named 'xyz' that isn't entered in a symbol table as 'xyz'
17:03	pmichaud	I like it.
17:03	moritz_	pmichaud: it isn't entered into the lexpad either, is it?
17:04	PerlJam	std: $x = anon Str sub xyz { 'ha ha' }
17:04	p6eval	std 29176: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/9u6vn39hU8 line 1:␤------> [32m$x = anon Str [33m⏏[31msub xyz { 'ha ha' }[0m␤ expecting any of:␤ infix or meta-infix␤ infix stopper␤ standard stopper␤ statement modifier loop␤ terminator␤Other potential
17:04	p6eval	..difficulties:␤ Varia…
17:04	pmichaud	moritz_: right
17:04	pmichaud	I consider lexpads to be symbol tables also :-)
17:04	TimToady	still need to check in 'anon'
17:04	PerlJam	at
17:04	PerlJam	er, ah
17:04	moritz_	std: sink 1
17:04	p6eval	std 29176: Undeclared routine:␤ 'sink' used at line 1␤ok 00:01 103m␤
17:04	* jnthn	didn't get chance to review all of the changes yet; S looked odd at first glance.
17:04	moritz_	TimToady: sink also :-)
17:05	PerlJam	anon still feels like one-too-many scope declarators to me (in the all of 5 minutes that I've known of its existence :)
17:05		Linuturk joined #perl6
17:05	Wolfman2000	...I think I'm biting off more than I can chew right now. Str "The test" in hex is 5468652074657374. If I understand MD5 right, I should append a 1 bit, then 0 bits until my hex length is 28. Then, I append the length of the unpadded message...8, little endian style. Is it possible to append bit strings to Str?
17:05		Linuturk left #perl6
17:06	moritz_	Buf()s would be better for that, but mostly NYI
17:06	pmichaud	bit strings should probably be buf, not str
17:06	Wolfman2000	moritz_: Buf types aren't in yet?
17:07	PerlJam	Wolfman2000: patches welcome! :)
17:07	moritz_	Wolfman2000: only very basic stuff is implemented in Buf
17:07	moritz_	like encode/decode
17:07	Wolfman2000	...alright, I'm out of my league then. PerlJam: can't even try to do this now.
17:08	Wolfman2000	Back to my original plan then: worry about bit shifting and buffing AFTER my presentation.
17:08	moritz_	TimToady: in the backlog, did you see my idea about a Base role or so which builtin types (or things that act like builtins) implement?
17:08	Wolfman2000	To think, Perl 6 is in use before it's out for everyone to use.
17:09	Wolfman2000	If this doesn't get you guys publicity, I don't know what will.
17:09	moritz_	as long as it's good publicity... :-)
17:09	Wolfman2000	moritz_: I plan on it.
17:09	PerlJam	I think I have a pessimist hat on today
17:10	Wolfman2000	PerlJam: take it off.
17:10	mathw	anybody know what parrot means when it says 'unexpected end'?
17:10	pmichaud	mathw: usually that there's a missing '.end' I think
17:10	PerlJam	The first thing I thought when I saw "get you guys publicity" was ``what does he mean "you guys"?'' and that worried me some.
17:10	mathw	pmichaud: interesting
17:10	mathw	pmichaud: this seems to be caused by a bit of inline PIR
17:11		synth joined #perl6
17:12	* mathw	experiments
17:13	moritz_	runaway quote maybe?
17:13	* moritz_	guesses
17:13	mathw	aaaaaaaaaargh
17:13	jnthn	Pain. He experiences it.
17:14	mathw	yup
17:14	mathw	the cat's come to cheer me up
17:14	jnthn	cat++
17:14	mathw	fortunately he's not trying to help
17:14	jnthn	.oO( Unexpected cheezburger )
17:15		simcop2387 joined #perl6
17:15	moritz_	at file <unknown>, line <unknown>
17:15		cdarroch joined #perl6
17:16	pmichaud	S02:565 says that C<Failure> is a non-instantiable role.... is that meant in the same sense that other roles don't have instances except via punning, or is there something deeper there?
17:16		wtgee joined #perl6
17:17	mathw	right
17:17	jnthn	All roles are non-instantiable without punning.
17:17	mathw	it seems that you can't have anything that's not a Q:PIR block inside a function body that has a Q:PIR block in it. Is this expected?
17:18	jnthn	mathw: May need a ; after the } but that may be a bug if so.
17:18	pmichaud	jnthn: right... I'm just wondering if the statement meant something further
17:18	jnthn	pmichaud: I srsly hope not.
17:18	pmichaud	mathw: that's not expected, no.
17:18	PerlJam	pmichaud: as in, you can't even pun Failure?
17:18	mathw	jnthn: I build test case
17:18	pmichaud	mathw: one should be able to put Q:PIR anywhere that a value is expected
17:19	pmichaud	ng: say 3 + Q:PIR { %r = box 4 };
17:19	p6eval	ng e4113c: 7␤
17:19	jnthn	pmichaud: Though if you want to make totally sure it can't be punned, then give the role a method new that throws an exception.
17:19	jnthn	(I assume it's got no other constructors...)
17:19	mathw	pmichaud: right
17:19	jnthn	pmichaud: I really can't imagine anything deeper than that though.
17:19	mathw	and my test case passed
17:19	mathw	so it's something else
17:19	pmichaud	mathw: can you nopaste what you have?
17:19	mathw	pmichaud: it's in a huge mess at the moment, I'm trying to rationalise it
17:19	mathw	I will do if I get something meaningful
17:20	pmichaud	mathw: okay.
17:20		wtgee left #perl6
17:20		desertm4x joined #perl6
17:20	pmichaud	so, given that we now have Numeric and Stringy roles... what do we expect prefix:<+> to look like? (more)
17:21	pmichaud	for example, I know that sub prefix:<+>(Numeric $x) { $x } is likely correct
17:21	TimToady	not without a 'multi' :P
17:21	pmichaud	but what if $x doesn't Numeric? what's our api for converting non-Numerics to numeric?
17:21	pmichaud	is it still .Num, or ... ?
17:21	pmichaud	(yes, need the multi)
17:22		ejs joined #perl6
17:22	TimToady	moritz_: yes, I saw Base, and am also wondering whether it actually works, or will prevent users from, say, doing numeric coercion via +$myobj, and whether or not that's good
17:23		payload joined #perl6
17:24	TimToady	the dwimmy thing the user expects of + is to call the coercer for the narrowest non-native type that handles it, or something like that
17:24	TimToady	maybe the next thing to do is to call the actual type of the original object to see if it has a Numeric sub defined
17:25	TimToady	so sweep the problem under the carpet of Str
17:25	pmichaud	okay, I'm afraid I didn't follow much of any of that
17:25	mathw	whee
17:26	mathw	infinite loop!
17:26	TimToady	I meant a method
17:27	pmichaud	so, multi sub prefix:<+>($x) { $x.Numeric } ?
17:27	TimToady	if there's a Str.Numeric method... yeah
17:27		zamolxes joined #perl6
17:27	pmichaud	same with Stringy and prefix:<~>, then ?
17:28	TimToady	presuming symmetry there
17:28	mathw	is there ever going to be a time when Rakudo can compile the core/*.pm without having to concat them all together first?
17:28	pmichaud	how about prefix:<?> and Boolean ?
17:28	pmichaud	still symmetry there, also ? (that would be nice)
17:28	TimToady	to the extend it makes sense
17:28	TimToady	*extent
17:28	TimToady	not everything extends to boolean
17:29		KyleHa joined #perl6
17:29	pmichaud	well, we still have the outstanding issues regarding the relationship of .true, .Bool, etc
17:29	pmichaud	so I'm wondering if .Boolean might help to clean that up
17:29	TimToady	maybe
17:29	TimToady	need to be careful with junctions
17:30	pmichaud	hmmm.... yes.
17:31	mathw	heh
17:31	mathw	calling @list.perl.say in ng seems to be causing an infinite loop
17:31	mathw	or at least, taking a veeery long time
17:33	pmichaud	I also wonder if @($x) should be doing $x.Positional and %($x) should be $x.Associative, then.
17:34	pmichaud	although that's not quite right, because if $x is a Capture then @($x) should be getting the positional elements out
17:35	moritz_	TimToady: the idea behind Base is that class authors decide themselves if they want to support +$object
17:36	pmichaud	moritz_: wouldn't that normally be handled by .Numeric, though?
17:36	moritz_	pmichaud: yes
17:37	moritz_	pmichaud: my idea was to but methods like Numeric, sin, abs, etc. into a Base role and out of Any
17:37	mathw	woo! I wrote Array.push
17:37	moritz_	pmichaud: so that user defined classes don't have 200 methods inherited from Any
17:37	mathw	...although it pushes into the middle, apparently
17:37	dukeleto	moritz_: that sounds like it could be a good idea
17:37	dukeleto	moritz_: and a performance enhancement as well
17:37	moritz_	pmichaud: unless they explicitly want them, in which case they just 'do Base'
17:38	moritz_	and if they don't, +$obj will fail because $obj doesn't have a Numeric method, unless defined explicitly
17:38	pmichaud	moritz_: and so then Int/Num/Str/List/Mapping all "does Base" by default ?
17:38	moritz_	pmichaud: yes
17:39	moritz_	all built-in types except Any, Object, junction and maybe Whatever (not sure about Whatever)
17:39		iblechbot joined #perl6
17:40	TimToady	.oO(all your Any are belong to us...)
17:40	moritz_	I was just about to call for Base puns
17:40	pmichaud	moritz_: I like that idea, don't see many downsides. the name is a little "off"
17:40	TimToady	does BASIC
17:41	moritz_	pmichaud: yeah, I'm not fixed on the name
17:41	KyleHa	does FORTRAN
17:41	dukeleto	TimToady: does Math
17:41	moritz_	there are more than Math builtins
17:41	TimToady	does Polymath
17:42	dukeleto	is Polyglot
17:42	pmichaud	moritz_: what common methods wouldn't end up in Base?
17:42	TimToady	speaks P6ese
17:42	pmichaud	seems like .grep, .join, etc still go into Any
17:42	TimToady	P6ease
17:42	moritz_	pmichaud: maybe the List ones... not sure though
17:43	moritz_	one could make a case for putting them into Base too
17:43	TimToady	ohoh, the abstraction is leaking --> sink :)
17:43	TimToady	does KitchenSink
17:43	pmichaud	moritz_: well, .join probably doesn't go in Any
17:43	pmichaud	because it wants to be able to stringify
17:44	pmichaud	.grep still goes into Any, because we want to treat objects as lists of 1 elem
17:44	moritz_	pmichaud: for builtin types, yes
17:44	pmichaud	moritz_: oh, I would think for non-builtin types also
17:44	TimToady	does DWIM
17:45	pmichaud	er, does WIM
17:45	TimToady	but it does do it! :)
17:45	moritz_	pmichaud: not sure... <foo> returns a string, but a quote should alwys return something which does DWIM
17:45	moritz_	pmichaud: so I see why <foo>.grep should work
17:45	pmichaud	moritz_: I think of it more along the lines of $x versus @x
17:45	moritz_	pmichaud: but not why $arbitrary_object.grep shoudl work
17:46	pmichaud	i.e., $x and @x do different things in list context, even if they are the same object
17:46	mathw	so I ran make spectest in ng and everything passed
17:46	moritz_	and by the same token $x.grep and @x.grep should do the same, even if $x !~~ Positional?
17:46	mathw	something's fudging, isn't it
17:47	pmichaud	moritz_: that's not my point
17:47	pmichaud	my point is whether we think of .grep as being "treat the invocant as a list, even if it's not already one"
17:48	pmichaud	and if that's true for all objects by default, as opposed to just those that "does Base"
17:48		dalek joined #perl6
17:48	pmichaud	if we think "for all objects by default", then .grep belongs in Any
17:48	moritz_	right
17:48	pmichaud	if we think "this behavior only for builtin types", then .grep belongs in Base
17:49		SmokeMachine joined #perl6
17:49	moritz_	anyway, that's a point I'm happy to negotiate, and maybe to just try out in real-world code
17:50	pmichaud	all of these issues fundamentally affect Rakudo-ng, though, so it would be good to nail them down a bit more now
17:50	pmichaud	especially the casting into Numeric, Stringy, Boolean, etc.
17:50	pmichaud	it's those sorts of issues that are posing questions about how to do Failure
17:51	pmichaud	and undef
17:51	moritz_	right
17:51	* dukeleto	does Failure
17:51		Nex6 joined #perl6
17:55	pugs_svn	r29177 \| lwall++ \| [CORE,Stash] catch up with recent name changes
17:55	pugs_svn	r29177 \| [STD] add anon, sink
17:56	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: (jnthn)++
17:56	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Start to get some junctional bits back in. Not yet working (but want to continue hacking on my desktop, not on my laptop :-)).
17:56	* pmichaud	does lunch, errands
17:56	pmichaud	bbiaw
17:57	mathw	http://gist.github.com/241235 highly oversimplified implementation of Array.push. I think it should be flattening the arguments maybe?
17:58		payload joined #perl6
17:58	jnthn	mathw: I think the slurpy param should enforce list context, and thus do that.
17:58	mathw	that would be nice
17:59	mathw	I need to figure out how to get it to do push-related spectests
17:59	mathw	but it works for simple things
17:59	jnthn	mathw: BTW, you can also do all of this with pir::opname form too :-)
17:59	mathw	I saw that elsewhere
17:59	mathw	but I didn't really understand it
18:00	jnthn	Also I wonder if pmichaud was thinking more of doing it in term of a .splice method call on self...
18:00	mathw	that's possible
18:00	mathw	in fact, that's quite likely
18:00	PerlJam	the less Q:PIR the better
18:00	mathw	that pir::opname thing requires you to know the name that has the argument type annotations doesn't it
18:01	mathw	PerlJam: agreed
18:01	pmichaud	+ my $elems = self.elems;
18:01	pmichaud	probably don't want to do that if we can avoid it
18:01	mathw	pmichaud: I know
18:01	mathw	Parrot's splice needs a count of where to stick it though
18:01	* moritz_	wonders how push, unshift etc. relate to laziness
18:01	mathw	I know this isn't a good implementation, but it's been educational :)
18:02	jnthn	mathw: If you're doing e.g. $P0 = parrotop $S0, $I0 then you'd turn it into pir::parrotop__PSI($x, $y) or so.
18:02	pmichaud	it's also the case that you need to not push the original elements of @args, but copies
18:02	jnthn	"copies" :-)
18:02	pmichaud	otherwise if the original elements change, the values in the array change also
18:02	mathw	hmm
18:02	mathw	point
18:02	mathw	very good point
18:02	jnthn	It's copies in the assignment sense of the word though.
18:02	pmichaud	right
18:03	mathw	is that why the one in master does all the wrapping in Perl6Scalar?
18:03	mathw	or was tha tjust because it was pure PIR
18:03	pmichaud	it's not wrapping, exactly
18:03	pmichaud	but yes, that's why
18:03	mathw	right
18:03	pmichaud	it needs to act like an array of scalars
18:04	pmichaud	so my plan was more along the lines of
18:04	pmichaud	my @array = @args;
18:04	pmichaud	# splice @array into self
18:04	mathw	so really your plan for implementing push is
18:04	mathw	1) write splice
18:05	pmichaud	where "splice @array into self" does it based on the internals
18:05	mathw	so you're okay using Parrot's splice
18:05	pmichaud	i.e., without actually flattening @!values
18:05	pmichaud	yes, I'm fine with Parrot's splice
18:05	mathw	well maybe I can do something more like that
18:05	pmichaud	I just don't want to be forcing flattening of the Array itself
18:05	mathw	this is all very interesting
18:05	mathw	excuse me
18:05	mathw	I need to have some dinner
18:06	pmichaud	I think if you can write Array.splice first, the rest become much easier :)
18:06	mathw	that's because Array.splice is the hard one :P
18:06	mathw	although we could then have push entirely in Perl 6, I suppose
18:06	jnthn	Having more stuff in Perl 6 itself is nice. :)
18:06	pmichaud	right.
18:07	* jnthn	gets latest Parrot and ng branch built so he can do some stuff.
18:07	mathw	heh okay
18:07	mathw	I'll look at splice later then
18:07	pmichaud	otoh, it might not be so easy to do with push with splice because splice wants an offset also
18:08	pmichaud	so... I dunno.
18:08	mathw	laziness mucks it all up a bit
18:08	pmichaud	unshift and shift are easy with splice; push/pop not so easy
18:08	mathw	if one does splice, unshift and shift
18:08	jnthn	masak and I were pondering this yesterday. Does push onto an infinite list followed by a pop give you the thing you just pushed?
18:08	mathw	one can leave push for later
18:08	pmichaud	jnthn: that would be nice. I don't see a barrier to someday implementing it that way.
18:09	pmichaud	(nor has the stuff I've written thus far preclude it)
18:09	jnthn	I don't expect pop of 1..Inf is going to do much helpful though. :-)
18:09	jnthn	Well, unless your task was "fill up memory"
18:09	pmichaud	why is that?
18:09	pmichaud	I could imagine that pop of an infinite generator can work
18:10	jnthn	Wouldn't we have to generate the entire lot to know what it's last element is, in the general case?
18:10	jnthn	OK, for a range it's a poor example - we know.
18:10	pmichaud	in the general case, like I/O, perhaps
18:10	pmichaud	but just because a generator is infinite doesn't mean we can't pop :)
18:10	Tene	a generator could feasibly generate at both ends.
18:11	jnthn	.oO( if you call .pop on 1..Inf an infinite number of times...oh wait... )
18:11	pmichaud	maybe something like -Inf .. 1 :-)
18:11	mathw	depends on the generator
18:11	jnthn	Yeah, true. :-)
18:11	jnthn	Depends how clever we want to be. :-)
18:11	pmichaud	okay, lunch for real now
18:11	pmichaud	bbl
18:11	mathw	can we not be too clever please
18:11	mathw	I don't think we really need to spend too much time letting people do foolish things with infinity
18:11	jnthn	mathw: Yes, I have a fear of excessive cleverness too :-)
18:12		pnate joined #perl6
18:12	pmichaud	mathw: you forget the Perl motto: "Perl exists to torment the implementors."
18:12	pmichaud	That would be you.
18:12	pmichaud	:-)
18:12	mathw	bah
18:12	jnthn	Yeah, but unfathomable semantics torment users too. :-)
18:12	mathw	I'll write the version that doesn't work with infinite lists
18:12	mathw	and let you fix it :P
18:12	jnthn	Shared tormentation.
18:13	mathw	Perl 6 isn't supposed to have unfathomable semantics
18:13	PerlJam	mathw: depends on who you are as to how "fathomable" the semantics are.
18:13	mathw	PerlJam: they should at least be written down somewhere
18:14		stephenlb joined #perl6
18:14	PerlJam	mathw: yes, but most of them are written in Perl 6! :)
18:15	mathw	PerlJam: recursion is... recursive :)
18:15		lithos joined #perl6
18:16	lithos	ng: say(0b22);
18:16	p6eval	ng e4113c: sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤
18:16	lithos	nqp: say(0b22);
18:16	p6eval	nqp: 6␤
18:17		eternaleye joined #perl6
18:17	lithos	nqp: say(0b33);
18:17	p6eval	nqp: Method 'panic' not found for invocant of class 'Regex;Match'␤current instr.: 'parrot;HLL;Actions;string_to_int' pc 13934 (gen/hllgrammar-grammar.pir:3334)␤
18:17	moritz_	in rakudo that's a known bug
18:18	lithos	hi! for nqp, one cause is a pasto in HLL/Grammar.pm, I think
18:18	mathw	lithos: are you the person who posted the summary on perl6-language?
18:18	lithos	yes
18:18	mathw	lithos: excellent work
18:18	lithos	noticed this bug preparing the summary
18:18	mathw	thank you very much :)
18:18	lithos	thanks
18:19	moritz_	lithos: ah, you mean token binint { [<[ 0..7 ]>+] ** '_' }
18:19	lithos	yes
18:19	* moritz_	fixes and tests
18:20	lithos	second thing is in HLL/Actions.pm:24 I think there should be >= in "if digitval > base goto err_base"
18:21		desertm4x_ joined #perl6
18:22	lithos	unless one wants to support redundant digits
18:22	dalek	nqp-rx: f9d5159 \| moritz++ \| src/HLL/Grammar.pm:
18:22	dalek	nqp-rx: fix binint pasto as noticed by lithos++
18:22	dalek	nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/f9d5159010b96244d546da1463c87c0400883597
18:23	moritz_	there's no reason to support 8 in base 8, right :-)
18:23	TimToady	lithos++
18:23	mathw	moritz_: I hope not
18:23	mathw	if there is, my understanding of how to write numbers down is much poorer than it should be
18:24	moritz_	lithos++
18:24	PerlJam	lithos++ (indeed, that's where I first found out about the S meta-op)
18:24	moritz_	@karma lithos
18:24	lambdabot	lithos has a karma of 4
18:25	lithos	ok, one more nqp nit: t/nqp/42-cond-loop.t:36 and following claim they are testing "unless" but they actually are not
18:26	PerlJam	what happened to PERL6EXE in build/Makefile.in ?
18:27	dalek	nqp-rx: 1ec10cc \| moritz++ \| src/HLL/Actions.pm:
18:27	dalek	nqp-rx: fix an off-by-one error in number conversion error checking
18:27	dalek	nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/1ec10cc6bdeb169a966f6e52b7ba6f1eb3ba046b
18:27	dalek	nqp-rx: a89723d \| moritz++ \| t/nqp/42-cond-loop.t:
18:27	dalek	nqp-rx: fix some test descriptions, as reported by lithos++
18:27	dalek	nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/a89723dc6c543bd097e14235debfd24ee6125b09
18:28		mdxi joined #perl6
18:28	PerlJam	oh, I see. In some places we have PERL6EXE and in others we have PERL6_EXE
18:29	colomon	lithos++ indeed!
18:29	jnthn	lithos++ # some nice fixes there! :-)
18:29	lithos	hm, moritz_, maybe the descriptions where as intended but the tests themselves weren't?
18:29	* lithos	blushes
18:29		mdxi joined #perl6
18:33	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: (Jonathan Scott Duff)++
18:33	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: [makefile] s/PERL6EXE/PERL6_EXE/
18:33		zloyrusskiy joined #perl6
18:33		rgrau joined #perl6
18:36	IllvilJa	Is this channel a place where I can find Russ Allbery (who maintains Term::ANSIColor for Perl5). I asked in #perl but got no answer... (and yes, I have tried to mail Russ using his CPAN mail address)
18:37		Su-Shee joined #perl6
18:38		pure1111 joined #perl6
18:38	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: jnthn++
18:38	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Give Junction a decent custom .new, meaning we can now nicely write all of any/all/one/none in the setting, as well as the various operators.
18:41	jnthn	std: anon Int $x;
18:41	p6eval	std 29177: ok 00:01 106m␤
18:41	jnthn	std: anon Int $x; say $x;
18:41	p6eval	std 29177: Potential difficulties:␤ Variable $x is not predeclared at /tmp/4CzilF5Wfi line 1:␤------> [32manon Int $x; say $x[33m⏏[31m;[0m␤ok 00:01 104m␤
18:41	jnthn	std++
18:41	mathw	jnthn: oooh
18:43	* mathw	looks at the spec for Array.splice and goes a bit pale
18:43	jnthn	Not quite sure of a use for an anonymous variable yet. ;-)
18:44	mathw	no
18:44	mathw	so this junction thing you just committed
18:44	mathw	that looks fun
18:45	jnthn	mathw: Well, it just bugged me that the internal what-kinda-junction-is-it ID was gonna leak out if I wanted to write any/all/etc in the setting.
18:45	jnthn	So gave it a nicer interface.
18:45	mathw	yeah
18:45	* mathw	reads thePIR and tries to figure out what that is
18:46	jnthn	If we can work out how you introspection a junction's type in some sane way, we can port most of the rest to the setting.
18:46	jnthn	Certainly .perl for a start.
18:46	mathw	.param pmc any :named('any') :optional
18:46	mathw	.param pmc all :named('any') :optional
18:46	mathw	.param pmc one :named('any') :optional
18:46	mathw	.param pmc none :named('any') :optional
18:46	mathw	umm
18:46	mathw	what?
18:46	jnthn	oh wtf
18:46	jnthn	Yeah, bug.
18:46	mathw	pastefail?
18:46	jnthn	yeah
18:47	jnthn	I didn't test this beyond that it doesn't break the build.
18:47	jnthn	:-)
18:47	mathw	lol
18:47	jnthn	Junctions are kinda useless until I put back auto-threading.
18:47	mathw	so it works out as Junction.new(:any, @states)
18:47	jnthn	(Which is what I'm doing now)
18:47	mathw	\o/
18:48	jnthn	I'd blame jet lag but I only did one timezone. :-/
18:49	mathw	that's okay
18:49	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: jnthn++
18:49	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Fix pasto spotted by mathw++.
18:50	* colomon	is disappointed he didn't follow his first thought and report that issue. He just decided it must be two different anys....
18:51	mathw	so, jnthn, is it really as simple as sub all(*@states) { Junction.new(:all, @states); }
18:51	mathw	have you really created such a level of awesome?
18:52	jnthn	mathw: Yeah.
18:52	mathw	woo
18:52	jnthn	mathw: I thought I'd already checked that in to the setting?
18:52	jnthn	Maybe I messed that up too though :-)
18:52	* jnthn	checks!
18:52	mathw	hmm you did
18:52	mathw	operators.pm
18:52	mathw	excellent
18:52	jnthn	yay
18:52	jnthn	:-)
18:52	jnthn	They work too.
18:52	* mathw	notes... look first
18:54	mathw	I was just looking for something less scary than splice :)
18:55	jnthn	I'm a bad person to come to for less scary tasks.
18:55		slavik joined #perl6
18:55	mathw	:)
18:55	mathw	at least I learned things
18:56	jnthn	I suggest open to masak++ and it turned out non-trivial due to lots of other missing stuff :-)
18:56	mathw	yes
18:56	jnthn	Happily, he did lots of them though, so it was a win. :-)
18:56	mathw	one of which was push
18:56	jnthn	Yeah!
18:56	mathw	which is why I was looking at it
18:56	mathw	but push turns out to be significantly more complicated
18:56	jnthn	Well
18:56		zloyrusskiy joined #perl6
18:56	mathw	unless we ignore laziness for now...
18:56	jnthn	Only if you want to do it in terms of a Perl 6 .splice..
18:56	mathw	in which case I think the only thing I did badly was not copying
18:57		quietfanatic joined #perl6
18:57	mathw	Perl 6 .splice is terrifying
18:57	mathw	mostly because of the bit that says it returns a Parcel of deleted elements
18:57	PerlJam	mathw: why is that terrifying?
18:57	quietfanatic	It's more or less the same as Perl 5's
18:57	quietfanatic	except list instead of parcel
18:57	jnthn	mathw: My impression was that what you'd got + the copy would work as a first cut.
18:57	mathw	Because I think it makes it difficult to implement it in terms of Parrot's splice
18:58	mathw	jnthn: I'll try that
18:59		ejs joined #perl6
19:00	jnthn	mathw: OTOH, I guess you can work out what elements you'll delete and just take a slice.
19:00	jnthn	And then use Parrot's splice.
19:00	jnthn	And then return the @deleted you got.
19:01	mathw	maybe
19:01	mathw	I guess that could work
19:01	jnthn	It's the first thing that comes to mind. :-)
19:01	mathw	:)
19:02	mathw	worth a try
19:03	jnthn	The tricky on splice is that you probably need to worry about evaluating any unevaluated parts of the list that your splice touches.
19:03	jnthn	I'm not sure how that looks.
19:03	mathw	yes that is potentially very very messy
19:03	jnthn	It may be handled for you...I didn't look at how the lazy works yet.
19:03	mathw	but again, how clever do we want to be right now?
19:09	colomon	I dunno, it seems to me the problem with a little bit lazy is that once you've got it, it propagates everywhere.
19:10	colomon	Though I suppose I could write Range.Iterator (for example) to create an entire List unlazily and then just return that List's .Iterator.... hmm.
19:11	TimToady	makes it kinda hard to iterate 0..* :)
19:12	colomon	TimToady: sure enough, but right now we can't even iterate 1..2 in ng. :)
19:12	jnthn	Should Range.Iterator return a RangeIter
19:12	* jnthn	may be behind on the spec...
19:12	TimToady	can certain eagerify the short ones; it's even specced that laziness can be batchy
19:12	colomon	RangeIterator according to the spec, I think?
19:13	TimToady	*certainly
19:13	colomon	It does now in ng.
19:13	jnthn	std: RangeIterator
19:13	p6eval	std 29177: Undeclared name:␤ 'RangeIterator' used at line 1␤ok 00:01 105m␤
19:13	jnthn	std: RangeIter
19:13	p6eval	std 29177: Undeclared name:␤ 'RangeIter' used at line 1␤ok 00:01 103m␤
19:13	jnthn	meh
19:13	colomon	But there's no defined Iterator Role or interface in ng, so poor little RangeIterator doesn't know how to talk to the rest of the ng universe.
19:14	jnthn	Oh. :-/
19:14	jnthn	That's...a problem.
19:14	colomon	all it can do is RangeIteartor.get.
19:14	pugs_svn	r29178 \| lwall++ \| [CORE] add RangeIterator
19:14	colomon	which unfortunately isn't what whatever wants iterators wants to get.
19:14	jnthn	Sheesh, that was fast. :-)
19:15	colomon	ng: my $a = (1..4).Iterator; say $a.get; say $a.get; say $a.get; say $a.get; say $a.get
19:15	p6eval	ng 6a652f: sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤
19:15	colomon	well, that was supposed to be a brilliant demonstration. :)
19:15	mathw	just wait a bit then :)
19:16	colomon	ng: say 'hai'
19:16	p6eval	ng d3f9a8: hai␤
19:17	colomon	ng: my $a = (1..4).Iterator; say $a.get; say $a.get; say $a.get; say $a.get; say $a.get
19:17	p6eval	ng d3f9a8: making RangeIterator on 1..4␤in get␤1␤in get␤2␤in get␤3␤in get␤4␤in get␤␤
19:17	pmichaud	back
19:17	colomon	still some debugging output left in there, I see. :)
19:19	* mathw	stares at simple splice implementation and wonders if it might work
19:19	jnthn	Why on earth does Parrot only ever return the top of the function's line number in an error?
19:19	mathw	one way to find out...
19:19	pmichaud	jnthn: I don't know -- that started happening recently.
19:19	jnthn	sigh
19:19	jnthn	parrot--
19:19	pmichaud	well, "recently" ~~ "within the past couple of months"
19:20	pmichaud	jnthn: do we have a ready example in ng of attaching a role to a class?
19:20	pmichaud	(in PIR, and a builtin class)
19:20	jnthn	pmichaud: No, because that bit isn't done yet.
19:21	jnthn	pmichaud: That's the bit I've been spending the last while working out how should be structured. :-)
19:21	jnthn	Or at least, one bit...
19:21	pmichaud	hmmmm
19:22	jnthn	pmichaud: I've spent more time on getting classes straightened out so far...
19:22	jnthn	Hadn't really got to sorting roles out fully yet.
19:22	pmichaud	okay. So perhaps I should just cheat on Failure for a while, then?
19:22	jnthn	Got pieces, but not a completed jigsaw.
19:22	jnthn	Yeah.
19:22	pmichaud	I was also hoping to start doing Int does Numeric does Integral and Str does Stringy :)
19:22	jnthn	I may do a Rakudo Day tomorrow and focus on the roles stuff.
19:23	jnthn	I've dealt with enough of the conceptual problems I had now.
19:23	jnthn	So am at the "write code" point. :-)
19:23	mathw	:)
19:23	pmichaud	okay.
19:23	pmichaud	I'll cheat on things a while longer.
19:23	jnthn	k
19:23	jnthn	Not quite sure I've got the branes to hack on that bit tonight.
19:23	pmichaud	np
19:23	jnthn	So just doing easy bits.
19:24	pmichaud	there's plenty of those yet.
19:24	jnthn	oh damm
19:25	jnthn	I mis-read a stack trace and went off trying to find a bug in the junction threader...that actually is in the code it runs.
19:25	jnthn	...which also needs push!
19:25	jnthn	:-)
19:25	jnthn	Oh well
19:25	jnthn	We seem to have junction auto-threading back.
19:25	mathw	jnthn++
19:27	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: jnthn++
19:27	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Few fixes that seem to have us doing junction auto-threading properly again.
19:27	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: jnthn++
19:27	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Routines should have Any as default parameter type.
19:27	jnthn	Just can't run any of the tests on it yet :-(
19:27	mathw	aww
19:27	mathw	null pmc access in get_string
19:27	pmichaud	http://gist.github.com/241310 # version of Array.push, for comment/review by mathw
19:27	* mathw	sighs
19:28	mathw	pmichaud: neater
19:28	mathw	doing the elements call in PIR saves a lot of mucking about with find_lex
19:28	mathw	I like that
19:28	pmichaud	also handles any necessary "assign to array" flattening.
19:29	jnthn	pmichaud: eval fail, I think...
19:29	jnthn	pmichaud: Does it pass namespace along / set namespace?
19:29	jnthn	oh gah
19:29	jnthn	wait
19:29	pmichaud	jnthn: where does Actions.pm look for namespace?
19:29	jnthn	pmichaud: It's a runtime issue, not a compile time one.
19:29	jnthn	pmichaud: But the test is:
19:30	jnthn	class A61354_1 { eval q/method x { "OH HAI" }/ }
19:30	jnthn	is (A61354_1.x), 'OH HAI', 'define method with eval in class';
19:30	jnthn	Please. No.
19:31	jnthn	pmichaud: On eval and namespace though, consider...
19:32	jnthn	oh, actually
19:32	jnthn	I think eval is fine.
19:32	pmichaud	:)
19:32	mathw	pmichaud: I think that push looks good
19:32	jnthn	I still vote to forbid being able to add methods like that.
19:32	mathw	it's definitely better than mine
19:33	pmichaud	jnthn: I agree -- that looks too monkey patched.
19:33	jnthn	There's so many better ways to do it.
19:33	pmichaud	besides, we already have the "augment" verb.
19:33	pmichaud	er, declarator.
19:33	jnthn	Not to mention $?CLASS.^add_method('x', method { "OH HAI" })
19:34	jnthn	If you really must patch it in during running the class body.
19:34	pmichaud	anyway, I wouldn't worry about that particular test for a while. It's not needed for Rakudo *, at any rate.
19:34	mathw	yeah
19:34	mathw	doing it via eval just seems silly
19:34	pmichaud	and I'm fine with a note that says "Rakudo doesn't like this, perhaps never will :)"
19:34	jnthn	pmichaud: Heh, I'm more inclined to change is to dies_ok ;-)
19:35	pmichaud	that's fine with me also :)
19:35	jnthn	It kinda worked by accident before anyhow...
19:35	jnthn	Granted, we've not had a good way to do this before the metamodel got straightened out.
19:37	jnthn	Great. We're one test off passing S12-class/basic.t
19:37	jnthn	(checking for re-declaration)
19:37		tarbo2 joined #perl6
19:38	mathw	yay
19:39	pugs_svn	r29179 \| jnthn++ \| [t/spec] Change a test - monkey-patching in extra methods at runtime using eval is Not Good, especially when there's so many better ways to do it.
19:44	jnthn	OK, I need to pop to the store. :-)
19:44	* jnthn	is getting peckish
19:48		KyleHa joined #perl6
19:51		hsb left #perl6
19:54	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: pmichaud++
19:54	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Add Array.push and Array.unshift .
19:56	pmichaud	...although, come to think of it, Array.push could really just be self = (self, @values)
19:57	pmichaud	except that self needs to flatten
19:57	mathw	yay pmichaud
19:57	pmichaud	and Array.unshift is really just self = (@values, self)
19:57	pmichaud	anyway, this mechanism is slightly more efficient :-)
19:57	mathw	yes
19:59		slavik joined #perl6
20:13		Exodist joined #perl6
20:16	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: KyleHa++
20:16	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Two more test files pass
20:21	* jnthn	back
20:22	jnthn	pmichaud: (flatten) When it's supported again in ng, I guess those things can be done as method foo(@self: @values) { ... }
20:23	pmichaud	jnthn: yes, that would work nicely.
20:23	pmichaud	we still might want to use the PIR form as being more efficient, though.
20:23	jnthn	Oh, I think we want to not change push, yes.
20:23	jnthn	Was just noting it in case it's useful elsewhere. :-)
20:25	pmichaud	it undoubtedly will be, yes. I had not thought of it, so I'm glad you mention it -- that'll be a useful pattern.
20:38	colomon	can you do the reverse of that? for pop, my (self, $popped) = self or something like that? (shift seems more reasonable, I guess)
20:41	jnthn	You'd at least need to make @self is rw in the sig...
20:42	jnthn	oh, wait
20:42	jnthn	That probably doesn't work, as @self could swallow up all of the elements...
20:42	jnthn	ng: my (@x, $y) = 1,2,3; say $y;
20:42	p6eval	ng 8c6663: Cannot assign to readonly value␤current instr.: '&infix:<=>' pc 8513 (src/builtins/assign.pir:12)␤
20:42	jnthn	...huh?
20:45	jnthn	rakudo: my (@x, $y) = 1,2,3; say $y;
20:45	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: ␤␤
20:45	jnthn	ng: my @x; my $y; (@x, $y) = 1,2,3; say $y;
20:45	p6eval	ng 8c6663: sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤
20:46	jnthn	oh wait, maybe just missing list assignment.
20:49		bluescreen joined #perl6
20:52		FCO joined #perl6
20:53		run4flat joined #perl6
20:55		payload joined #perl6
20:58		pmurias joined #perl6
21:00	colomon	sorry for disappearing on that one, yes, I expect swallowing up all the elements could be an issue. But could shift work that way? ($shifted, @self) = @self ?
21:00	colomon	(assuming list assignment, of course!)
21:00		cognominal joined #perl6
21:03	moritz_	re
21:10		cognominal joined #perl6
21:12	pmurias	rakudo: my $a,@b;@b=1,2,3,4;($a,@b) = @b;say @b
21:12	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: Symbol '@b' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/DK4secnPEW:2)␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
21:12	pmurias	rakudo: my $a,my @b;@b=1,2,3,4;($a,@b) = @b;say @b;
21:12	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 234␤
21:12	pmurias	rakudo: my $a,my @b;@b=1,2,3,4;($a,@b) = @b;say $a;
21:12	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: 1␤
21:12	pmurias	cognominal: seems to work
21:13	pmurias	cognominal: i'm not sure it would be the most efficient way of doing it
21:16	cognominal	pmurias, I am very happy for you even if I have no clue of what you are ralking about :)
21:19	jnthn	Think pmurias meant colomon :-)
21:26	colomon	:)
21:27	run4flat	Hello, I have a question that's not specifically related to Perl6 per-se, but my idea might make it into Perl6 some day... maybe...
21:28	run4flat	Does anybody know where I can find some Regexp-engine hackers?
21:29	run4flat	I have an idea that really works best in PDL, but nobody else who hangs out there is interested in numerical regular expressions
21:31	moritz_	run4flat: pmichaud is one, others have implemented some regex engines here too
21:31	run4flat	moritz_: thanks
21:31	colomon	numerical regular expressions?
21:31	diakopter	run4flat: feel free to voice your idea here
21:32	run4flat	diakopter: yeah
21:32	run4flat	The name says most of it. Numerical regular expressions would be a specification for a state machine that would analyze an array of floating point numbers instead of an array of UTF-8 characters
21:33	moritz_	sounds interesting
21:33	run4flat	moritz_: That's what I think
21:33	run4flat	:)
21:33	diakopter	for pattern matching?
21:33	run4flat	but whenever I suggest this idea, people say, "What would you use it for?"
21:33	run4flat	diakopter: yeah
21:33	run4flat	signal processing protoyping
21:34	run4flat	for example
21:34	moritz_	run4flat: is there some theoretical foundation for it?
21:34	run4flat	no
21:34	run4flat	moritz_: I mean, not anything more than string regexp's
21:34	run4flat	it was just an idea that occurred to me last summer
21:35	run4flat	moritz_: I'm not sure what theoretical foundation you could get for numerical regexp's that goes beyond character regexp's
21:36	cognominal	well, as you express it, you have a solution in quest of a problem. May be if you tell why you came with we could understand...
21:36	moritz_	run4flat: i'm mostly intersted in what kind of features you could find in a stream of numeric data
21:36	run4flat	let me give a simple example of how I would use this
21:36	moritz_	run4flat: like, can you find a maximum/minimum? what about a maximum in the derivation of the function?
21:36	diakopter	run4flat: what would the primitives be? you would need logical expressions and comparison expressions
21:37	run4flat	right, I don't want to get into details of the spec
21:37	run4flat	because it's pretty complicated
21:37	run4flat	but. basically, you would have numerical 'classes' like character classes
21:37	moritz_	have you written it down somewhere?
21:37	run4flat	Yeah, but I've not published it
21:37	run4flat	it's still pretty rough
21:38	run4flat	example: -5 <=x < 10 would become [-5, 10)
21:38	run4flat	so then, $my_data =~ n/ [5%, 10%) M /
21:39	run4flat	would match a local maximum that is preceded by a data pont that is between 5% and 10% of the data's width
21:40	run4flat	For my uses, I would take a bunch of data sets with on measurement
21:40	run4flat	separated by a really obvious signal between data sets
21:40	run4flat	and then use a regexp to separate them
21:40	diakopter	run4flat: http://search.cpan.org/~tbone/Array-PatternMatcher-0.04/PatternMatcher.pm
21:40	run4flat	diakopter: thanks!
21:40	run4flat	that's the first useful feedback I've gotten on this!
21:41	diakopter	I don't know whether it can handle moving averages & regression-type lookbacks
21:41	diakopter	time series stuff... but certainly static expressions.
21:41	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: moritz++
21:41	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: enable basic regex tests
21:41	pmichaud	iiuc, perl 6's regular expression pattern matching is supposed to be able to more than just character strings
21:41	pmichaud	and, of course, one can likely do a lot with nested signatures
21:42	run4flat	diakopter: Thanks, I'll look into this
21:43	run4flat	pmichaud: yeah, I have not looked into Perl 6's regular expressions too closely yet... know of any good primer for a non-traditional use?
21:43	pmichaud	run4flat: there's not much written yet. Just a small section at the bottom of Synopsis 5
21:44	run4flat	pmichaud: I think I read through that once a while back
21:44	run4flat	I'll take another look
21:48	run4flat	Well, thanks for your feedback. I'll take another look at Synopsis 5 and I'll look over Array::PatternMatcher
21:48	run4flat	If you get any other ideas, you can usually find me on the #pdl channel at irc.perl.org
21:55	* diakopter	squints sideways at check_doteq
22:02		ashizawa joined #perl6
22:10		IllvilJa joined #perl6
22:11	colomon	Is anyone working on split in ng yet?
22:11	jnthn	nqp: my $X = 42; say("lol answer is $X")
22:11	p6eval	nqp: Assignment ("=") not supported in NQP, use ":=" instead at line 1, near " 42; say(\""␤current instr.: 'parrot;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 519 (src/cheats/hll-grammar.pir:197)␤
22:11	moritz_	not that I know of
22:11	jnthn	nqp: my $X := 42; say("lol answer is $X")
22:11	p6eval	nqp: lol answer is 42␤
22:11	jnthn	colomon: I ain't.
22:12	moritz_	ng: say 'abcab'.match(/a/, :c(1)
22:12	p6eval	ng 7912ba: Confused at line 1, near "say 'abcab"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 519 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:336)␤
22:12	moritz_	ng: say 'abcab'.match(/a./, :c(1))
22:12	p6eval	ng 7912ba: ab␤
22:12	moritz_	ng: say 'abcaX'.match(/a./, :c(1))
22:12	p6eval	ng 7912ba: aX␤
22:13	moritz_	colomon: :c($pos) will be very handy for Str.split(Regex)
22:13	colomon	moritz_: ?
22:13	moritz_	colomon: it allows you to start a regex match not at the beginning of the string, but somwhere later on
22:14	colomon	ah, yes, that sounds useful. :)
22:14	moritz_	so you don't have to deconstruct the source string
22:14	moritz_	(which also confuses $match.from and .to if the :all flag is passed to split)
22:15	jnthn	Whee. If the rest of the tests pass, looks like I've got us S12-class/basic.t back. :-)
22:16	Tene	jnthn: any recommendations on where you'd like me to work, if I start working on ng?
22:16		tylerni7 joined #perl6
22:17	colomon	oh bother. we've actually got p6 implementations of split, but they require gather/take.
22:17	Tene	Ooo, gather/take. I wrote the original version of that.
22:17	moritz_	Tene: if you could bring that back to ng that would be great
22:17	Tene	Needs to work with generators or whatever in ng, though, right?
22:17	pmichaud	I don't mind if gather/take is eager still.
22:17	colomon	right
22:18	pmichaud	we can lazify it later
22:18	moritz_	colomon: gather/take can easily be emulated with an array and push
22:18	colomon	afk dinner
22:18	Tene	Oh, if eager is okay, then it's easy. Yeah, I'll do that tonight.
22:18	jnthn	Yay
22:18	moritz_	I just wrote it with gather/take in the expectation that at some point it would magically become lazy if I only used gather/take
22:18		tylerni8 joined #perl6
22:18	moritz_	silly me
22:18	pmichaud	moritz_: and it would have/will do that :)
22:19	moritz_	anyway, since we didn't have :c back then it's a less-than-awesome way to do it now
22:19	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: jnthn++
22:19	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: S12-class/basic.t passes again.
22:19	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: jnthn++
22:19	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Start to get name handling filled out a bit more STDishly, meaning we can now have a chance of detecting redeclarations.
22:26	jnthn	rakudo: eval('class C { method x { say 42 } }'); eval('C.x');
22:27	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: ( no output )
22:28	jnthn	rakudo: eval('die "oh noes"');
22:28	jnthn	ng: eval('die "oh noes"');
22:28	p6eval	rakudo 7347ec: ( no output )
22:28	p6eval	ng 7912ba: oh noes␤current instr.: '&die' pc 8620 (src/builtins/control.pir:18)␤
22:28	jnthn	eval doesn't catch exceptions? :-)
22:30		snearch_ joined #perl6
22:31		jferrero joined #perl6
22:34		vamped joined #perl6
22:43	jnthn	eww!
22:43	jnthn	ng: { my $a = 0; sub test() { $a++; } }
22:43	p6eval	ng 7912ba: ( no output )
22:43	jnthn	ng: class Foo { }; { my $a = 0; sub test() { $a++; } }
22:43	p6eval	ng 7912ba: Symbol '$a' not predeclared in &test␤current instr.: 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 137 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:101)␤
22:54		zamolxes joined #perl6
23:15		mberends joined #perl6
23:15	diakopter	mberends: hi
23:16	mberends	hihi, hotel wifi a bit flaky this week
23:19	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: jnthn++
23:19	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Start to eliminate is ref in favor of the \ quantifier. Stub in parsing and various bits for the \| quantifier too.
23:22		kidd joined #perl6
23:27	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: jnthn++
23:27	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Remove ref from signature introspection, in favor of parcel. Also add .capture, so we can introspect for \|$foo.
23:27	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: jnthn++
23:27	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Rename ref to parcel in the binder.
23:41	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: jnthn++
23:41	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: ..., ??? and !!!.
23:42	Tene	okay, just need to set up this classroom for an exam, and then I can go home.
23:42		explorer__ joined #perl6
23:44	Tene	I'll try to remember to do gather/take tonight... I'm feeling kinda sleepy...
23:50	KyleHa	ng: sub foo($x) { say 'x' }
23:50	p6eval	ng 92410f: ( no output )
23:51	KyleHa	ng: sub foo'($x) { say $x }; say 'alive'
23:51	p6eval	ng 92410f: Confused at line 1, near "sub foo'($"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 519 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:336)␤
23:52	jnthn	std: sub foo'($x) { say $x }; say 'alive'
23:52	p6eval	std 29179: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Malformed block at /tmp/Q6FFGIjoZs line 1:␤------> [32msub foo[33m⏏[31m'($x) { say $x }; say 'alive'[0m␤ expecting any of:␤ block␤ new name to be defined␤ routine_def␤ terminator␤ trait␤ whitespace␤FAILED 00:01 105m␤
23:57	jnthn	pmichaud: Any thoughts on this one:
23:57	jnthn	my @x; for @x { say "once" }
23:57	jnthn	erm
23:57	jnthn	ng: my @x; for @x { say "once" }
23:57	p6eval	ng 92410f: once␤
23:59	KyleHa	S02-names/identifier.t passes now, but some 'eval_dies_ok' tests (like "sub foo'4($x)") are 'ok' with an error I'm not sure is ok. It complains that $x is an undeclared identifier.
23:59	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: jnthn++
23:59	ng_feed	rakudo-ng: Various tweaks to .params and .arity to try and be a bit more correct with list handling. Seems another bug blocks things though.
23:59	KyleHa	Oh, I have an idea...
23:59		s1n joined #perl6
23:59	jnthn	pmichaud: If that can be worked out, we may have a decent chance of passing arity.t.

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo