Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2009-11-30

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 pmichaud fail is the same as return() except it returns  a Failure object
00:07 diakopter ng: our $FailureClass = $_.WHAT; our sub Failure() { return $FailureClass }; our sub fail { say $^a; return Failure.new($a) }; say Mu.WHAT.new
00:07 p6eval ng 7d3cac: Method 'Str' not found for invocant of class 'Mu'␤
00:07 diakopter on that note,
00:08 diakopter ng: sub foo { say $^a; say $^a }; foo(3);
00:08 p6eval ng 7d3cac: Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤current instr.: '&foo' pc 108 (EVAL_1:49)␤
00:08 diakopter ng: sub foo { say $^a; say $a }; foo(3);
00:08 p6eval ng 7d3cac: 3␤3␤
00:08 Tene That's wrong.
00:09 Wolfman2000 I thought that was right actually
00:09 diakopter the 2nd one is correct
00:09 Tene rakudo: sub foo { say $^a; say $^a }; foo(3);
00:09 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: 3␤3␤
00:09 masak Tene: no, it's spec. $a after $^a is OK, and the same var.
00:10 diakopter masak: I'm sure Tene meant my first try
00:10 Tene masak: Yes, I know.  You can ALSO use $^a every time.
00:10 masak oh.
00:10 masak yes, now I see.
00:10 masak my bug submitting finger itches.
00:10 Tene I'm rather entertained by implementing in ng the same things that I implemented in rakudo.
00:10 masak :)
00:11 masak by the way, yay! GGE can now be precompiled! and it starts much faster. \o/
00:12 Tene masak: 'sec, lemme see if I can fix that real quick.
00:13 Tene Actions.pm needs a conditional right around +1559
00:14 Tene It needs to inspect $placeholder_sig
00:14 Tene I don't have time to dig into Perl6::Compiler::Signature to see what I'm looking for, though.
00:14 Tene That should be sufficient for somebody else here to do it, though. :)
00:14 Tene AFK driving
00:15 diakopter .oO( driving doesn't stop some folks from ircing )
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00:17 lilstevey Hello #perl6
00:17 diakopter Hello lilstevey
00:20 Juerd_ phenny: tell TimToady Could you provide (old or fresh) citations for the three [citation needed]s at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6?
00:20 phenny Juerd_: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
00:20 lilstevey I've come seeking knowledge. I'm trying to dynamically attach a method to a class, and, cheekly hoping someone could give me a pointer towards any resources?
00:21 Juerd_ Interesting info in that wikipedia article.
00:21 Juerd_ Pugs will be used for bootstrapping? Oh?
00:21 Juerd_ Maybe I should add a few [citation needed]s myself :D
00:22 masak lilstevey: hello. can you be more specific? is it something that you cannot solve with an eval() inside the class definition?
00:23 diakopter masak: surely you mean "cannot solve withOUT an eval" :P
00:23 masak no, I stand by what I wrote :)
00:24 diakopter (eye roll)
00:25 astrojp left #perl6
00:25 diakopter Juerd_: imho, all between "It will be used for ..." and "... from within a program or library" can be excised
00:26 diakopter (inclusively)
00:26 Juerd_ Agreed and (heh).
00:26 masak lilstevey: there is some sense to diakopter's eye roll, of course. jnthn is doing some metaclass work in the ng branch which might do what you need. but it hasn't landed yet in master.
00:27 diakopter I'm sure lilstevey would like to know how to do it with eval
00:28 lilstevey masak & diakopter: maybe I should nopaste - my typing and explanation skills seem to limiting my throughput?
00:29 Juerd_ diakopter: Done.
00:29 masak rakudo: class A { if rand < .5 { eval("method foo() \{ say q[foo] }") } else { eval("method bar() \{ say q[bar] }") } }; A.new.?foo; A.new.?bar
00:29 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d:  ( no output )
00:30 masak locally, that prints sometimes 'foo', sometimes 'bar'.
00:30 arnsholt Juerd_: For the last [citation needed] you can pretty much just point to man perlre I think
00:30 masak lilstevey: did that help? if not, feel free to go ahead and nopaste.
00:31 diakopter Juerd_: you might mention that Pugs can be found at (and maintenance releases for various new versions of ghc are posted to) http://hackage.haskell.org/package/Pugs
00:31 Juerd_ arnsholt: What part?
00:31 arnsholt Or just cite the regex from the camel book that correctly matches nested parens
00:31 Juerd_ diakopter: You know, it is a wiki ;)
00:31 masak :)
00:32 diakopter wtfomg; I thought it was Juerdpedia :D
00:32 Juerd_ :D
00:32 arnsholt Juerd_: Well, there's (?{ code }) and (?{{ code }})
00:32 Juerd_ No. I would structure an article about Perl 6 very differently.
00:32 Juerd_ arnsholt: Yes, but that only implies what is written in the article to someone familiar with regular regular expressions.
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00:33 arnsholt True. But to make sense of the point you really have to know the difference between regular and other languages
00:34 masak arnsholt: what _is_ the difference?
00:35 lilstevey masak: eval - Probably - many thanks - I was hoping for a one liner to inject into something along the lines of http://pastebin.com/d23b178 but will have a play with eval - should be able to fire something off.
00:35 arnsholt masak: In a word: centre-embedding
00:35 masak arnsholt: such as XML nestedness?
00:35 arnsholt Yep
00:35 masak lilstevey: as I mentioned, jnthn is working on the one-liner solution.
00:36 masak jnthn++, I mean. :)
00:36 arnsholt masak: Essentially regular languages can only have simple repetition, you have no way of "counting" stuff so that they match up like parens
00:37 arnsholt There's lots of nice theory round it if you want it formally, but that's the essence of it
00:37 masak arnsholt: right, now I remember. Feynman explained this to me once (indirectly, through a book).
00:38 arnsholt Feynman? Didn't know he talked about that kind of stuff
00:38 masak in a book about computers and computing.
00:38 arnsholt Ah, right
00:38 masak starting from the fundamentals; very good stuff.
00:38 masak so, regular languages correspond to finite state machines?
00:38 arnsholt Exactly!
00:38 masak which cannot count stuff because they're finite, and the natural numbers are not. :)
00:39 arnsholt Not quite
00:39 arnsholt A regular language can be infinite. a* for example
00:39 masak yes, but then you don't care about the number of repetitions.
00:39 SirKay wait, you've met Feynman?
00:39 quantumEd every natural number is finite!
00:39 masak SirKay: 'indirectly, through a book'.
00:39 SirKay oh, lol
00:39 arnsholt But you have no way of keeping state. If you say \(*\)* you have no way of saying that the two stars should match the same number of parens
00:40 masak quantumEd: :)
00:40 arnsholt What's finite about FSAs is that they have a finite number of states (AFAIK)
00:40 masak quantumEd: the set of natural numbers has a cardinality which exceeds each natural number. sorry, I wasn't precise enough. :P
00:40 arnsholt But finite state machines are isomorphic to regular languages
00:41 masak arnsholt: nodnod.
00:41 lilstevey sorry for being an indiot - is masak plus plus equivalent to "many thanks" - am a bit of an IRC virgin and wouldn't wish to increment kudos I didn't have to give?
00:41 arnsholt For context-free languages you have something called push-down automata, which are a fairly intuitive expansion of FSAs
00:41 masak arnsholt: FSA + stack, right?
00:41 quantumEd lilstevey++
00:41 masak @karma lilstevey
00:41 lambdabot lilstevey has a karma of 1
00:41 arnsholt masak: Pretty much, yeah
00:41 masak lilstevey: there you go.
00:42 arnsholt As for context-sensitive languages, apparently parsing them is NP-complete =)
00:42 lilstevey many thanks, masak++
00:42 masak lilstevey: and there's no need to apologise for questions. :) keep'em coming.
00:43 masak arnsholt: I'm not comfortable enough with NP-completeness to know what that means.
00:43 arnsholt Me neither, TBH
00:43 quantumEd masak it just freaks me out that every natural number is finite, but the set of them is infinite
00:43 lilstevey Thanks for the pointer - it's gone my bedtime so will disapear off to bed and try to have a play with eval in the week. ( perhaps then more questions to come ) Goodnight #perl6!
00:43 masak arnsholt: does it mean that assigning parts of the text to AST nodes might take superpolynomial time?
00:43 arnsholt I usually just parse it as "stupid-hard. here be dragons"
00:43 masak lilstevey: g'nite.
00:44 masak quantumEd: consider the set of numbers (2, 4, 6). each number is even, but the number of numbers is odd. does that also freak you out?
00:45 masak arnsholt: yes, sure. I'm reading up on complexity now, through (Scott Aaronson)++'s online course, so I'm paying a little extra attention when I see stuff like that.
00:45 quantumEd masak, no
00:45 masak quantumEd: what's the significant difference? that there's infinity involved?
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00:46 arnsholt Actually, it turns out context-sensitive grammars are even worse than NP-complete. They're PSPACE (whatever that means)
00:46 quantumEd yeah
00:47 quantumEd arnsholt, what does (whatever that means) mean?
00:47 arnsholt quantumEd: It means that I have no idea what the difference between NP and PSPACE is
00:47 masak arnsholt: it means that the memory requirements grow polynomially with the size of the problem.
00:47 arnsholt Aha. Thanks
00:48 masak arnsholt: see this lecture :) http://www.scottaaronson.com/democritus/lec6.html
00:48 masak and this picture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSPACE
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00:49 arnsholt Oooh, right. That graph looks familiar
00:49 arnsholt It was in the slides of my algorithms class
00:49 arnsholt Or at least one like it
00:49 quantumEd I like the look of that NL class
00:49 masak it's the class of all problems situated in the Netherlands.
00:49 quantumEd hehe
00:50 arnsholt *giggle*
00:54 arnsholt masak: Thanks for that link. Those are excellent slides
00:55 masak you're welcome.
01:10 arnsholt "We need 2^aleph-null choices like we need a hole in the head." =D
01:11 masak :)
01:12 masak oh, look at that. my watch says that I should have gone to sleep hours ago.
01:12 masak I'll make the best of it and go to sleep now.
01:12 masak good night, #perl6.
01:12 Wolfman2000 g'night
01:16 colomon ng: say "hello".flip
01:16 p6eval ng 7d3cac: sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤
01:16 Wolfman2000 ...that's not a normal error, is it?
01:17 colomon that's "there's no ng compiler right now."
01:17 colomon it's being rebuilt, one hopes.
01:17 colomon ng: say "hello".flip
01:17 p6eval ng 7d3cac:  ( no output )
01:18 colomon hey, that was supposed to work.
01:18 colomon ng: say "hello".flip
01:18 p6eval ng 7d3cac:  ( no output )
01:18 colomon ng: say "hello"
01:18 p6eval ng 7d3cac: hello␤
01:19 colomon ng: for "hello".split("") { .say }
01:19 p6eval ng 7d3cac: h␤e␤l␤l␤o␤
01:19 colomon ng: for "hello".split("").reverse { .say }
01:19 p6eval ng 7d3cac: o␤l␤l␤e␤h␤
01:20 colomon ng:  "hello".split("").reverse.join.say
01:20 p6eval ng 7d3cac: olleh␤
01:20 colomon ng: flip("hello")
01:20 p6eval ng 7d3cac:  ( no output )
01:20 colomon ng: say flip("hello");
01:20 p6eval ng 7d3cac: olleh␤
01:20 colomon ng: say "hello".flip
01:20 p6eval ng 7d3cac:  ( no output )
01:21 colomon very puzzled how one can work and the other not...
01:21 Wolfman2000 colomon: typo?
01:22 colomon ng: "hello".flip.say
01:22 p6eval ng 7d3cac: olleh␤
01:28 colomon ng: say "hello".flip
01:28 p6eval ng 7d3cac:  ( no output )
01:30 colomon ng: say "hello".split("").reverse.join
01:31 p6eval ng 7d3cac: olleh␤
01:34 colomon ng: my $j = ("Hello"|"World");
01:34 p6eval ng 7d3cac: Could not find non-existent sub prefix:?␤current instr.: '&infix:<===>' pc 8371 (src/builtins/Num.pir:18)␤
01:40 pugs_svn r29214 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Reframe and fudge the junction autothreading index tests.
01:42 ng_feed rakudo-ng: colomon++
01:42 ng_feed rakudo-ng: Turn on index.t test.
01:49 pugs_svn r29215 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Refactor the fudge so that ng can pass it.
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02:09 lisppaste3 colomon pasted "Bus error (?) in split-simple2.t seen in debugger" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91257
02:11 ng_feed rakudo-ng: colomon++
02:11 ng_feed rakudo-ng: Add Any.chomp.
02:11 ng_feed rakudo-ng: colomon++
02:11 ng_feed rakudo-ng: Turn on chop.t and chomp.t.
02:15 arnsholt colomon: Try rebuilding with debugging symbols?
02:15 colomon is there an easy way to do that?
02:16 arnsholt I think the easiest way is to just hack the Makefile and rebuild
02:17 arnsholt Just add -g to CFLAGS
02:17 colomon hack the parrot makefile and / or the rakudo makefile ?
02:17 arnsholt The Rakudo Makefile primarily
02:18 arnsholt It should be possible to get Parrot to build with debugging symbols by tweaking the config options appropriately
02:18 colomon okay, rebuilding rakudo-ng.
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02:20 Wolfman2000 evening frew_
02:21 Wolfman2000 I took care of some more updates...plus I figured out how to give you commit bit access.
02:21 Wolfman2000 Hopefully you'll like what you see.
02:24 colomon arnsholt: with debugging turned on in rakudo, split-simple2.t works fine.   :|
02:24 arnsholt That's weird
02:24 arnsholt And it was consistently failing before?
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02:25 colomon arnsholt: No, it's more of a Heisenbug.
02:26 colomon It seems consistent on a given build of rakudo, but that's it.
02:26 arnsholt Then I'm out of tricks
02:26 arnsholt But it's a NULL pointer deref, so it's definitely a bug somewhere
02:28 colomon I've been running into them all day, I was hoping a trace or two might help jnthn or pmichaud puzzle it out.
02:28 arnsholt True, true
02:29 arnsholt But if you manage to get a trace with line numbers too I suspect they'll be even happier =)
02:30 colomon Well, I'll leave debugging in for the moment and see if it happens again.
02:46 colomon bedtime
03:05 diakopter colomon:
03:05 diakopter earlier, it's that parsing issue
03:06 diakopter ng: say "hello".flip
03:06 p6eval ng 812c27: olleh␤
03:06 diakopter erm
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04:02 * Wolfman2000 goes for a BIG test file...gotta love (hate?) being slightly anal about covering all of the situations.
04:08 diakopter "Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this license document, but changing it is not allowed."
04:08 diakopter what?  that's ... horribly unclear
04:09 diakopter so no one can adopt a slightly-modified-edition of the AL2 for one's own project?
04:14 dj_goku diakopter: your projects can be whatever license you choose.
04:15 dj_goku diakopter: I would probably call it, al2-mod :D
04:27 f00li5h[HireMe] joined #perl6
04:27 * f00li5h[HireMe] meows
04:28 Cyrus f00li5h[HireMe]: Told you.
04:28 Cyrus You can see the pounds melting away.
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04:30 avar diakopter: Yes that's what it means, free software licenses are generally proprietary
04:30 avar diakopter: i.e. if you want a similar license you have to write one all over again, you can't make a derived work
04:37 diakopter sigh.  I don't suppose it can be incorporated by reference
04:37 diakopter well, of course it can.
04:38 diakopter Cyrus: what?
04:38 Cyrus diakopter: It was a joke that spanned #perl and here.
04:42 avar diakopter: such licenses usually explicitly prohibit adding terms, so you can't do that either
04:47 diakopter avar: they prohibit adding terms for the redistribution of works released under them, but nothing prohibits making [external] modifications to the license for use in the initial release of one's own software.
04:48 Tene You need to be careful when examining what restrictions apply to the license itself and what apply to software released under the license.
04:51 diakopter Tene: the AL2 doesn't refer to itself (as a document apart from as it's attached to a Package) except [ambiguously, perhaps] in that sentence I quoted.
04:52 diakopter so, the definition of "license" can be externally amended/redefined to mean the AL2 document plus the amendments listed in the amendment document itself.
04:53 avar diakopter: There are no "external" terms, "the license" is the terms under which you distribute the software. If you add extra terms in the form of "these terms + GPL" that's counted as being under the license, which you explicitly can't modify
04:53 diakopter avar: no
04:53 avar (I'm only familiar with this case with the GPL, but maybe the AL2 is similar)
04:54 avar Are you talking about dropping in the license and adding terms somewhere else "we're under the AL2 but you can only distribute the software on a tuesday" ?
04:54 avar because that's the impression I got, maybe I'm mistaken
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04:56 diakopter avar: what precisely would be wrong with that example?
04:57 diakopter well, modified to be:
04:59 avar Because you're distributing a legal document which is at odds with itself
04:59 avar The first line of AL2 says: "License" shall mean the terms and conditions for use, reproduction, and distribution as defined by Sections 1 through 9 of this document.
05:00 avar Anyway, apache probably has a legal mailing list, ask there, I'm not a laywer
05:00 avar but you'll probably get the same respons, gn
05:01 diakopter "we're under the terms as listed in LICENSE [where LICENSE contains: see the accompanying AL2.txt for definitions and overall terms, but where "this license" and "the license" in AL2.txt refer to the contents of this file (LICENSE) and AL2.txt. And you may only release redistributions of this software on Tuesdays.]
05:01 diakopter "
05:01 diakopter avar: where did you get your copy of AL2
05:01 diakopter because I don't see that line
05:02 diakopter avar, oh, you're referring to the Apache License 2
05:03 diakopter I was talking about the license that nearly all of the Perl 6 implementations use - the Artistic License 2
05:03 diakopter but still, my point holds even if it were the Apache License
05:06 Wolfman2000 ...what license is Perl 6 on anyway? Not the implementations, the language.
05:10 diakopter I'm pretty sure the spectests and synopses are protected by the http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/LICENSE/Artistic-2 by default... but good point, that probably should be explicit on http://perlcabal.org/syn/
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05:23 carlin Would it be possible to modify the license by reference, so state "This software is released under AL2 sans point ii of section 4c."
05:27 diakopter that's what I'm surmising, yeah
05:27 dj_goku diakopter: I am with you (but I would get a lawyers opinion), that you can change as you see fit, just it won't be the same license and terms.
05:28 diakopter yes, the AL2 just says you can't change the *document*
05:28 diakopter ArtisticLicense2
05:29 mdxi that's because if you could, someone could change the terms of the license and then say "I am totally following the terms of the Artistic License!"
05:29 mdxi practically speaking, you can change it
05:29 mdxi but you can't call it "the Artistic License" anymore
05:29 mdxi just as specs are generally not open in a "modify this document" sense
05:30 mdxi because then you don't have a spec at all
05:30 diakopter yeah
05:31 diakopter well, the Perl Foundation can change it :)
05:31 diakopter (unless that clause is externally amended) :)
05:37 carlin But you could still release it under AL2 and then lock it down extenrally; "This software is released under AL2, provided you don't redistribute it or modify it"
05:38 diakopter too many "it"s :)
05:41 carlin ... but you could probably still get around that using section 4c ... legal nightmare imo.
05:43 Wolfman2000 ...what controversy did I cause now diakopter?
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05:58 Wolfman2000 sleep for me
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08:00 flip214 Hello again!
08:00 moritz_ good morning
08:01 flip214 I've got some fresh questions again ...
08:01 flip214 I'm trying to define my own String class - for local charset/UTF8 type validation in the compiler
08:01 flip214 (if that makes sense in perl ?)
08:02 flip214 So that I can clearly tag my function "this takes an UTF8 string", and "this gets a local string"
08:03 flip214 Now there are some parts where I have to convert - eg. from "Str @ARGV"
08:03 moritz_ @*ARGS iirc
08:03 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
08:03 flip214 But simply using a "new" function with appropriate input types doesn't work
08:04 flip214 rakudo: class T is Str { method new(Str $x) { return bless $x; } }; my T @a= "a", "2"; say @a;
08:04 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d:  ( no output )
08:04 flip214 is that just NIY?
08:04 flip214 I get a NULL PMC access in isa()
08:04 moritz_ you can't just bless anything, I think
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08:05 mberends conceptually, UTF-8 should not be a "type" for a string. UTF-8 is a representation.
08:05 moritz_ and the spec provides a utf8 buffer type, which validates :-)
08:05 moritz_ but rakudo NYI it
08:06 mberends so UTF8 is a "type" for a buf, which is not a string.
08:07 mberends buf <--> string is tricky, seeing past work by others on the subject
08:07 flip214 So, what should I do? There are some API functions that need UTF8 input, and I have to assume that my commandline parameters are in local charset.
08:07 flip214 Some persistent data should be stored in local charset (possible, not sure about that yet) (for performance reasons) ...
08:08 flip214 and some other functions need to be tagged UTF8
08:08 * mberends cannot help
08:08 flip214 I'd like to keep typechecking to the compiler
08:08 moritz_ currently rakudo decodes everything as UTF-8
08:08 flip214 Well, maybe Str is the wrong type anyway
08:08 moritz_ so @*ARGS contains Str objects, not Buf objects
08:08 flip214 and I should just use Buf
08:09 moritz_ http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/strings-and-buffers.html if you haven't read it yet
08:09 flip214 But again, I'd like to use some different types ...
08:11 flip214 rakudo: my buf8 $x='aaa'; say $x;
08:11 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: Malformed declaration at line 2, near "buf8 $x='a"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
08:11 flip214 rakudo: my Buf $x='aaa'; say $x;
08:11 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: Assignment type check failed; expected Buf, but got Str␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
08:11 flip214 rakudo: my Buf $x='aaa'.Buf; say $x;
08:11 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: Method 'Buf' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 324)␤
08:11 moritz_ rakudo: my Buf $x = "foo".encode('UTF-8')
08:11 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d:  ( no output )
08:11 moritz_ rakudo: my Buf $x = "foo".encode('UTF-8'); say $x[0]
08:11 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: elements() not implemented in class 'Buf'␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
08:12 flip214 rakudo: augment Str { ... }; my Buf $x='aaa'; say $x;
08:12 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: Confused at line 2, near "{ ... }; m"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
08:12 flip214 How do I write type conversions?
08:12 moritz_ method TypeYouWantToConvertTo { ... }
08:13 flip214 rakudo: augment Str { method Buf($x) { return $x; } }; my Buf $x='aaa'; say $x;
08:13 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: Confused at line 2, near "{ method B"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
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08:13 moritz_ std: rakudo: augment Str { method Buf($x) { return $x; } }; my Buf $x='aaa'; say $x;
08:13 p6eval std 29215: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Malformed augment at /tmp/Cv6DCVgTJb line 1:␤------> [32mrakudo: augment Str [33m⏏[31m{ method Buf($x) { return $x; } }; my Bu[0m␤    expecting any of:␤  multi_declarator␤ typename␤FAILED 00:01 105m␤
08:13 moritz_ but you can't convert Str to Buf without specifying an encoding
08:13 moritz_ which is why we have the .encode method
08:13 flip214 rakudo: augment Str { method Buf() { return self.encode('UTF-8'); } }; my Buf $x='aaa'; say $x;
08:14 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: Confused at line 2, near "{ method B"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
08:14 flip214 rakudo: augment class Str { method Buf() { return self.encode('UTF-8'); } }; my Buf $x='aaa'; say $x;
08:14 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: Re-declaration of type Str at line 2, near "; my Buf $"␤in Main (file src/gen_setting.pm, line 1671)␤
08:14 flip214 rakudo: class T { method Buf() { return self.encode('UTF-8'); } }; my T $x='aaa'; say $x;
08:15 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d:  ( no output )
08:20 flip214 rakudo: class T { method BUILD(Str $a) { return $a; } }; my T $x='aaa'; say $x;
08:20 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: BUILD declared as a method; you probably wanted to declare it as a submethod.␤
08:20 flip214 rakudo: class T { submethod BUILD(Str $a) { return $a; } }; my T $x='aaa'; say $x;
08:20 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d:  ( no output )
08:20 flip214 Null PMC access in isa()
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10:12 JimmyZ ng: class Alpha { has @!a = < beta gamma >;};
10:12 p6eval ng 812c27: No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for '&infix:<=>'␤current instr.: 'perl6;Alpha;_block22' pc 107 (EVAL_1:58)␤
10:29 lisppaste3 colomon pasted "broken from apparently infinite loop in S32-str/comb/t" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91262
10:36 ng_feed rakudo-ng: colomon++
10:36 ng_feed rakudo-ng: Set appropriate default value for Any.comb's Regex argument.
10:41 pugs_svn r29216 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Switch m/oo/ to /oo/.
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11:20 colomon errr... how do you get a capture in ng?
11:23 colomon rakudo: "   ghfhgfg   " ~~ /^\s*(.*)\s*$/; say $0
11:23 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: ghfhgfg   ␤
11:24 colomon rakudo: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*?)\s*$/; say $0
11:24 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: ghfhgfg␤
11:24 colomon ng: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*?)\s*$/; say $0
11:24 p6eval ng 36e263: Confused at line 1, near "say $0"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 519 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:336)␤
11:25 colomon rakudo: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*?)\s*$/; say $/[0]
11:25 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: ghfhgfg␤
11:25 colomon ng: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*?)\s*$/; say $/[0]
11:25 p6eval ng 36e263: Can't postcircumfix:<[ ]> foreign objects yet.␤current instr.: '!postcircumfix:<[ ]>' pc 240719 (src/gen/core.pir:0)␤
11:26 moritz_ ouch
11:29 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
11:30 colomon moritz_: oh, someone else is awake!
11:30 * moritz_ just came back from lunch
11:32 ng_feed rakudo-ng: colomon++
11:32 ng_feed rakudo-ng: Turn on pos.t test.
11:32 colomon ng: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*?)\s*$/; say $/
11:32 p6eval ng 36e263: ␤
11:33 colomon ng: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*?)\s*$/; say ~$/
11:33 p6eval ng 36e263: ␤
11:34 colomon bother.  well, I have non-working versions of rindex and trim to show for my morning's efforts....
11:37 moritz_ ng: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*?)\s*$/; say ?$/
11:37 p6eval ng 36e263: 0␤
11:37 beggars joined #perl6
11:37 moritz_ it doesn't match, which is why indexing into $/ doesn't work
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11:42 colomon so matching is broken?
11:42 colomon broken/nyi?
11:43 moritz_ rakudo: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*?)\s*$/; say ?$/
11:43 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: 1␤
11:43 moritz_ maybe it's not backtracking enough
11:43 moritz_ pmichaud: see above, a regex doesn't match in ng that does in master (and should, IMHO)
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12:47 ng_feed rakudo-ng: colomon++
12:47 ng_feed rakudo-ng: Initial stabs at Any.trim and Any.rindex.  Neither works, and rindex is commented out because it does not even compile yet.
12:58 lisppaste3 colomon pasted "Bus error in words.t" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91266
13:02 ng_feed rakudo-ng: colomon++
13:02 ng_feed rakudo-ng: Implement Any.words.
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13:51 mathw I have just been very surprised to discover how many of my colleagues and my friends don't know how to write Makefiles
13:51 mathw Are they really all that complicated?
13:51 masak to be honest, I only know the very basics.
13:51 masak I know that there be dragons in the whitespace handling.
13:52 jnthn I know that my make program has different ideas about whitespace to some other people's.
13:52 mathw jnthn: everyone I've spoken to so far would only use GNU Make anyway, so assume that's not an issue
13:52 jnthn mathw: Yeah, in that case it's not an issue.
13:53 mathw That's what I thought
13:53 jnthn mathw: It's more an issue for me when I hack makefiles, and then thanks to tab/space hanlding differences between gnu make and nmake I break the build.
13:53 mathw But then I'm from the perspective of having learned how to write Makefiles years ago
13:53 jnthn I'm not a makefile wizzard by any means, but I don't find the basic concept hard.
13:53 mathw It seems most of my colleagues do...
13:54 jnthn I think I understood prolog as "like doing all your programming using makefiles" at one point. ;-)
13:55 masak heh. that disregards backtracking. :)
13:55 mathw Actually that's a pretty good way to think about it
13:55 mathw Except Makefiles don't go backwards, as masak said first
13:55 mathw Of course, if you don't already grok Makefiles, it doesn't help your Prolog
13:56 masak yesterday I started thinking about backtracking keywords in a programming language, and how they would look.
13:56 mathw They look like this: !
13:56 mathw Everything else is implicit :P
13:56 masak I think i'd better explain using a nopaste. hold on. :)
13:59 moritz_ masak: I've seen some backtracking keywords in lisp-like languages
14:00 masak moritz_: cool. which ones?
14:01 mathw Does anybody know if Windows has anything akin to popen()?
14:01 mberends the only problem I had with Makefiles so far was that 'man make' is woefully inadequate. The solution is to keep a copy of http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/ handy.
14:01 moritz_ masak: I forgot :(
14:04 PerlJam greeble
14:04 zaslon loljnthnhazblogged! jnthn++ 'Failure()<0xb5098484>': Failure()<0xb50979f8>
14:04 masak zaslon: whereas ng doesn't know how to fail, you sure do. :)
14:04 zaslon Sorry, I don't understand that command
14:05 PerlJam prolog is  the only language I've ever run across (that I can recall) that has "backtracking keywords"
14:05 iblechbot joined #perl6
14:07 colomon PerlJam: I've seen implementations of prolog in lisp... (mind you, that was nearly 20 years ago now, so the details are very fuzzy)
14:07 zaslon loljnthnhazblogged! jnthn++ 'Laying the role meta-foundations': http://use.perl.org/~JonathanWorthington/journal/39943?from=rss
14:07 colomon PerlJam: Do I need to be writing the first p6 advent calendar post for tomorrow?
14:07 cognominal joined #perl6
14:07 jnthn zaslon: I blogged that AGES ago!
14:07 zaslon Sorry, I don't understand that command
14:07 PerlJam colomon: if you want.  If not, I can probably do it tonight.
14:08 PerlJam colomon: Did we ever decide where these posts would go?
14:08 colomon PerlJam: Not here.  Don't know what discussion there has been on the wave.
14:08 PerlJam colomon: none really :)
14:09 PerlJam I wonder if we can get perl6advent.blogspot.com or something and go from there.
14:09 colomon PerlJam: I just figured we'd pick a blog that was easy to edit for the "table of contents" post, and everything else could go wherever.
14:09 colomon PerlJam: oooo, interesting idea!
14:10 PerlJam I've got a meeting at work shortly and some other tasks to do this morning, but if you want to try to do that, that would be excellent.
14:10 colomon Let me see what I can do.  (While $work compiles, honest.)
14:10 PerlJam Otherwise, I won't be too available for the next 2-3 hours.
14:11 masak colomon, PerlJam: how are you planning to assign the days to different people?
14:11 colomon I've only got about 30 minutes, then I've got to get cleaned up to take the boy to storytime at the library.
14:11 PerlJam masak: volunteer for a day and just do it!  :)
14:11 masak PerlJam: for 24 days?
14:11 masak PerlJam: how many volunteers?
14:12 PerlJam I dunno. As many as we can cajole on #perl6  :)
14:12 colomon I think we have four or five at the moment?
14:12 masak that sounds good.
14:13 jnthn colomon: I'll volunteer to write one. I may need minor cajoling. :-)
14:13 PerlJam meeting time for me.
14:13 mberends what does a volunteer have to do?
14:13 colomon jnthn: write one or I'll keep inserting bugs into ng!
14:13 masak I like loose organizations in general, but I fear with too little structure, the advent calendar might come to a halt at day 11 or some such. :/
14:14 masak maybe a schedule where people could pick particular days, say on a wiki somewhere, would help counter that.
14:17 colomon http://perl6advent.wordpress.com
14:17 masak colomon++
14:19 colomon Looks like I've found the page to add contributors to the blog.  May have to have a wordpress.com account to be one?
14:19 colomon I've never actually used wordpress before, so this will be a bit of an adventure for me...
14:20 colomon Oooo, invites.
14:22 colomon masak: using you as a guinea pig...
14:22 masak excellent.
14:22 masak I think I already have a wordpress account, for what it's worth.
14:23 colomon brushingupmyknuth  ?  ;)
14:24 colomon Does someone have an e-mail for PerlJam?
14:24 moritz_ perlpilot at gmail or so
14:25 colomon github gives it as duff at pobox.
14:26 masak colomon: it was an idea I had once, to plod through all the Knuth exercises.
14:26 moritz_ that's sounds better :-)
14:26 colomon masak: It's a brilliant and brave idea.
14:26 masak colomon: one might say that Perl 6 has nowadays occupied that slot in my life, though.
14:26 masak colomon: I might take it up again some time.
14:26 colomon masak: understood.
14:27 moritz_ *all* the knuth excercises?
14:27 moritz_ that was... ambitious :-)
14:28 masak I had that vice already then. :)
14:28 colomon masak: In theory I add you and PerlJam as contributors.  though it's not actually showing up on the users page.  You may have to do something with the invite?
14:29 masak ok.
14:29 moritz_ if you want a guest post from me on one of my favourite topics, I might give it a shot
14:29 colomon moritz_: sounds great.
14:30 moritz_ I guess you want things that already work in Rakudo?
14:30 jnthn .oO( There's more than one way to Christmas )
14:31 colomon I was certainly thinking that, but I guess things that are super-cool but don't work yet might be worth including...
14:31 masak colomon: wordpress.com won't let me create a new account because my email address 'is already in use'. I guess that's because I have an account already.
14:33 colomon Maybe I have to add you from the other page, then?  Hmmm...
14:33 colomon jnthn: what e-mail address should I use for you?
14:34 jnthn mynick@mynick.net
14:34 jnthn <-- mynick
14:35 colomon done.  And masak, you're added as a contributor, whatever that means.
14:35 masak colomon: ok. still trying to log in.
14:35 Wolfman2000 *yawn* morning. colomon: I think I added masak and others as contributers to my github project, but I don't know if they had to be sent emails or something. I just...went for it.
14:36 moritz_ on github no confirmation is necessary
14:36 jnthn colomon: oh...
14:36 jnthn colomon: I already have a wordpress account.
14:37 jnthn colomon: So not sure if this worked out..
14:37 jnthn colomon: If you can add a username, mine there is "jnthnwrthngtn"
14:37 colomon what e-mail is it attached to?
14:37 jnthn The same one.
14:38 [particle] i shun caps, sure. but jnthn shuns caps and vowels! he brings coolness to a new level :)
14:38 Coke joined #perl6
14:38 colomon okay, you're in
14:39 jnthn colomon: yay, now I can has an email saying I'm added.
14:39 jnthn colomon: yup, I see it.
14:39 jnthn \o/
14:39 Coke ah, jnthn, my online documentation resource!
14:39 Coke (jk)
14:39 colomon okay, off to storytime....
14:40 jnthn .oO( Saying "The docs probably suck." makes me a resource? :-) )
14:40 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
14:40 masak morning, pmichaud.
14:40 jnthn morning, pmichaud
14:42 masak I still think having a schedule with days in which people can pick days would be an all-round good thing.
14:42 Coke ooh. I just figured out the answer to my question.
14:42 masak that way, the problem of finding a volunteer each day would not be as urgent.
14:42 moritz_ masak: then just start such a page somewhere
14:43 masak moritz_: nod. any suggestions? it needs to be somewhere everyone can edit.
14:43 moritz_ masak: pugs repo
14:43 masak ah, of course!
14:43 masak thanks.
14:43 * masak makes it so
14:44 pmichaud ng: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*?)\s*$/; say ?$/
14:44 p6eval ng f2ba53: sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤
14:45 jnthn Coke: Happy to be of service!
14:45 jnthn ;-)
14:47 moritz_ ng: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*?)\s*$/; say ?$/
14:47 p6eval ng f2ba53: 0␤
14:47 moritz_ rebuild finished
14:48 pmichaud ng: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*)\s*$/; say ?$/
14:48 p6eval ng f2ba53: 1␤
14:48 ruoso joined #perl6
14:48 pmichaud ng: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*!)\s*$/; say ?$/
14:48 p6eval ng f2ba53: 1␤
14:49 pmichaud ng: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*!)\s*/; say $/
14:49 p6eval ng f2ba53:   ghfhgfg  ␤
14:49 pmichaud ng: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*?)\s*/; say $/
14:49 p6eval ng f2ba53:   ␤
14:49 pmichaud ng: "  ghfhgfg  " ~~ /^\s*(.*?)$/; say $/
14:49 p6eval ng f2ba53: ␤
14:49 pmichaud looks like a backtracking bug somewhere.
14:49 pugs_svn r29217 | masak++ | [misc/perl6advent] added schedule
14:50 masak people, go and sign yourselves up for days! http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/misc/perl6advent-2009/
14:50 masak ANYONE, even lurkers, can volunteer.
14:51 Wolfman2000 masak: It may help if I understood WHAT we are volunteering for
14:51 pmichaud is there a readme or something that explains what....
14:51 masak it would be good to know we cover the first week before December begins.
14:51 masak oh, good point.
14:51 masak I'll write a micro-readme.
14:54 pugs_svn r29218 | masak++ | [misc/perl6advent] added README
14:55 masak there you go. http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/misc/perl6advent-2009/
14:55 Wolfman2000 which blog is this?
14:56 Wolfman2000 I may have missed it during scrollback
14:56 masak another good point. :) I'll add the URL to the README.
14:56 masak it's http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/
14:57 Wolfman2000 since I covered my contributing here, does that mean I'm exempt from blogging?
14:57 masak someone with tuits is very welcome to pick a less clichéd skin for the blog.
14:57 masak Wolfman2000: no, it means you're an excellent candidate.
14:57 pmichaud ...should it perhaps got to blogs.perl.org ?
14:57 pmichaud *go
14:57 masak pmichaud: I think it should.
14:58 Wolfman2000 I don't know if I have a blogpress account
14:58 Wolfman2000 Will you require me to make one?
14:58 colomon pmichaud: blogs.perl.org officially doesn't work yet, there was a blog post on it this morning.  :)
14:58 colomon masak++ for organizing!
14:58 pmichaud colomon: okay then -- didn't know about that :)
14:58 pugs_svn r29219 | masak++ | [README] added URL
14:58 pmichaud Anyway, I'll take at least one day in the first week.  I'm not particular about the day.
14:59 colomon afk for real now....
14:59 masak Wolfman2000: I think you'll need one for posting, yes.
14:59 Wolfman2000 apparently I have an account. Hang on while I retrieve my password
15:01 arnsholt What exactly does 哈 mean?
15:01 masak arnsholt: it represents the sound 'ha'.
15:02 masak arnsholt: TimToady tells me it means 'Pugs', which is oddly fitting :)
15:02 Wolfman2000 masak: I'm in. What account information do you require from me?
15:02 masak Lithos++ # weekly summaries
15:02 Wolfman2000 masak: "Pugs" can't work in kanji
15:02 Wolfman2000 pugusu, perhaps
15:02 masak Wolfman2000: colomon holds the keys to the blog.
15:03 masak Wolfman2000: no, not the sound. the meaning.
15:03 arnsholt masak: Oh, right ^^
15:03 masak Wolfman2000: 哈 sounds like HA1 in Mandarin.
15:03 Wolfman2000 masak: what information should I PM to colomon then?
15:03 masak Wolfman2000: what you can do already, though, is pick a couple of days in the schedule I linked to.
15:04 masak Wolfman2000: probably your username is enough.
15:04 Wolfman2000 lc(<--)
15:04 Wolfman2000 or <--.lc
15:04 masak yes. PM that to colomon. :)
15:05 Wolfman2000 Dec 1st is tomorrow, right?
15:05 Coke Wolfman2000: yes
15:05 Wolfman2000 and what do we talk about?
15:06 masak Wolfman2000: consider the outer world, which will receive Perl 6 as 24 gifts during December.
15:06 masak Wolfman2000: write about one such gift.
15:06 Wolfman2000 ...so we have to plan our gift giving so we don't overlap.
15:06 masak nah. :)
15:06 masak just write stuff, and let the anarchy sort it out. :)
15:07 Wolfman2000 ...despite my homework, I think I can claim the 1st of December easily.
15:07 masak OTOH, if you want to claim a topic, feel free to write as much in the schedule.
15:07 Wolfman2000 ah
15:07 masak Wolfman2000++
15:07 Wolfman2000 yeah, topic claiming is a good idea...
15:07 Wolfman2000 Dec 1: multi subs with constraints
15:07 masak maybe I should do the same, then.
15:07 masak that's a good topic.
15:08 Wolfman2000 ...though since my topic deals with types...I guess I"ll just say "someone else will explain the gift of types"
15:08 masak Wolfman2000: another tip is to nopaste a draft here before you post, so that we can all praise/comment/improve.
15:08 Wolfman2000 or I can keep mine generic
15:08 Wolfman2000 masak: point
15:08 masak Wolfman2000: don't worry too much about introducing things in the right order.
15:08 Wolfman2000 alright, what's another good day...well, seems like you have all of the Wednesdays
15:08 masak it's not a course book.
15:08 masak yes, for some reason I took the Wednesdays. :)
15:09 masak it doesn't matter to me though, so feel free to move me over if you want one.
15:09 Wolfman2000 Wednesdays are generally bad for me
15:09 Wolfman2000 ...I may as well stick to Tuesdays then
15:09 Wolfman2000 I just have to come up with 3 more topics
15:10 masak no rush.
15:10 Wolfman2000 let's see...grammar tutorial, since I've done minor work in that.
15:10 masak that's way too big a topic to claim. :)
15:10 Wolfman2000 ...you're right
15:10 Wolfman2000 I can do a small part, such as token/role { stuff } and then using the token/role
15:11 masak that sounds good.
15:12 Wolfman2000 ...my caesar cipher program can come in handy: letter rotating with comb and map
15:12 masak that sounds nice.
15:13 masak maybe we could agree on some small gimmick, such as "On December 1, my Perl 6 gift is: multi subs".
15:13 Wolfman2000 which leaves the final topic...up in the air for now
15:14 Wolfman2000 "(Hello in a foreign language), I am (name), and on December (date), my Perl 6 gift is: (gift)"
15:14 jnthn .oO( On the first day of Christmas, my Perl 6 brought to me, dispatch with a multi )
15:14 Wolfman2000 I know the first part is basically copying the Nostalgia Critic.
15:14 Wolfman2000 jnthn: I'd like to think of this Perl 6 Advent thing as more than just Christmas here.
15:14 masak jnthn: we have more than 12 days. :)
15:14 Wolfman2000 We can cover Hannukah and Kwaanza easily.
15:14 jnthn masak: Yeah!
15:15 jnthn masak: Couldn't resist the opportunity for corny/bad poetry though :-)
15:15 Wolfman2000 So...
15:15 Wolfman2000 colomon: You may want to make sure that blog of yours supports UTF-8 properly!
15:15 Wolfman2000 brb/afk while I get ready to head off to school. I'm almost done with this semester! :D
15:16 masak Wolfman2000: have the appropriate amount of fun!
15:16 envi^home joined #perl6
15:17 carlin zaslon: add perl6advent http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/feed/
15:17 zaslon I am now following perl6advent's blog
15:17 carlin zaslon: link perl6advent
15:17 zaslon perl6advent's blog is at http://perl6advent.wordpress.com
15:17 PacoLinux joined #perl6
15:18 masak phenny: tell colomon that it may be a good idea to write an 0th blog post today, which introduces the whole Perl 6 Advent Calendar endeavour to the world.
15:18 phenny masak: I'll pass that on when colomon is around.
15:19 * masak goes to buy food
15:24 colomon joined #perl6
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15:34 frettled Good news, everyone!  It turns out that Planet Perl Six can be configured to grab posts from a blog that contains specific keywords, rather than just shoving out all there is.  So it's possible for someone to have a more general-minded blog, yet get their Perl 6 related blog posts at the Perl 6 planet.  Woohoo.
15:35 frettled Of course, when I asked, the answer was only «Yes, it's possible», nothing more, but hey, it was a technically correct answer.
15:35 moritz_ frettled: and, was your blog added?
15:35 moritz_ obra: are you the owner of planetsix?
15:36 frettled moritz_: apparently not, I sent a response asking how I get my blog added.
15:37 Wolfman2000 done with showering and whatnot
15:37 Wolfman2000 I'll have the laptop packed up within 20 minutes
15:37 obra moritz_: I ..was. A long time ago. I believe others can edit it
15:37 Wolfman2000 so any last minute things I need to know before I head off, now's the time.
15:38 obra moritz_: give me urls
15:38 moritz_ obra: http://howcaniexplainthis.blogspot.com/ # filter for the Perl 6 tag (or keyword)
15:38 obra moritz_: RSS/Atom feed urls please. with the filter in place
15:38 moritz_ obra: so in future should I send people to you? or to webmaster@perl.org
15:39 payload1 joined #perl6
15:39 obra I just have an ini file to work with
15:39 frettled obra: ah, urhm, blogspot.com doesn't provide an in-place filter
15:39 obra moritz_: send mail to webmaster@perl.org cc me asking about helping maintain it
15:40 moritz_ obra: ok, thanks
15:40 obra frettled: we're using planet. afaik, planet doesn't have such a feature
15:40 frettled obra: aaaw :(
15:41 frettled I should get off my lazy bum and get working on the Oslo.pm planet.
15:42 obra frettled: you might be able to use feedburner or something to get a filtered feed for us
15:42 frettled obra: aha, I didn't think of that.
15:43 frettled It's also a part of the don't-be-evil company, I see.
15:43 obra is it now?
15:43 obra i've gotta run
15:43 payload joined #perl6
15:43 obra if you want a feed added for now, just mail jesse@perl.org
15:45 frettled obra: okay, thanks.
15:47 colomon joined #perl6
15:47 Wolfman2000 is colomon's connection alright?
15:48 Khisanth for some value of ...
15:51 arnsholt frettled: I think Yahoo has an app that lets you create custom filters
15:51 arnsholt Yahoo Tubes, IIRC
15:51 frettled arnsholt: Feedburner evidently doesn't quite do it.
15:51 frettled arnsholt: wooh, the intertubes!
15:52 arnsholt Ah, no. It's Yahoo pipes
15:52 arnsholt http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/
15:53 jnthn A series of pipes just doesn't have the same ring to it.
15:53 arnsholt Well, what can you do? =)
15:53 frettled Pipes of peace?
15:54 [particle] maybe it's a suite of pipes
15:55 colomon_ joined #perl6
15:55 nihiliad joined #perl6
15:55 Wolfman2000 better now colomon?
15:56 frettled arnsholt: whoa, they were about to remove the entire service in August
15:56 Psyche^ joined #perl6
15:58 PerlJam meeting let out early
15:58 PerlJam colomon++
15:59 Wolfman2000 phenny: tell colomon username for wordpress is wolfman2000. I don't know if he got it previously due to the evil PEER
15:59 phenny Wolfman2000: I'll pass that on when colomon is around.
15:59 Wolfman2000 and with that, I'm out
15:59 PerlJam I think the Dec 1 entry should be another post on getting and installing rakudo (preferably by someone who hasn't done it much before)
16:00 Wolfman2000 ...I'm not prepared to give that topic discussion.
16:00 Wolfman2000 We'll talk more about this when I'm done with classes for the day. Hopefully you'll be up in about 10 hours.
16:00 PerlJam That way, when read as a whole later, the reader has good information to execute the code in the later entries.
16:08 nihiliad joined #perl6
16:20 colomon_ joined #perl6
16:27 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
16:27 frettled Ye gods, this pipe tool is clunky, but it just might work.
16:31 frettled This looks like it's okayish: http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.run?_id=c30fa6b5be32693af535b6e46c4fabd6&amp;_render=rss
16:32 * frettled send off a mail to webmaster + obra with that link.  :)
16:33 KyleHa joined #perl6
16:36 frettled arnsholt: Thanks for the tip, BTW.
16:36 arnsholt You're welcome
16:36 arnsholt Anything that lets me do something other than schoolwork =)
16:41 frettled Oh, OH!  Muahhahahaa.
16:47 colomon_ joined #perl6
16:54 pmurias joined #perl6
16:54 pmurias ruoso: hi
17:03 * colomon_ is back from storytime (mostly anyway -- out in the car with the MacBook and the sleeping boy).
17:07 colomon_ phenny: tell Wolfman2000 For some stupid reason, I need the e-mail address you used to subscribe to wordpress, rather than your wordpress id.
17:07 phenny colomon_: I'll pass that on when Wolfman2000 is around.
17:11 justatheory joined #perl6
17:19 cotto_w0rk joined #perl6
17:34 PZt joined #perl6
17:36 stephenlb joined #perl6
17:39 zaslon loljnthnhazblogged! jnthn++ 'Failure()<0xb77859d4>': Failure()<0xb77844a8>
17:40 Coke joined #perl6
17:42 zaslon loljnthnhazblogged! jnthn++ 'Laying the role meta-foundations': http://use.perl.org/~JonathanWorthington/journal/39943?from=rss
17:42 colomon_ zaslon: yes, we got the idea.
17:42 zaslon Sorry, I don't understand that command
17:44 jnthn Is this a hint that I need to blog some more or something? :-)
17:45 colomon_ zaslon is trying to make it look like you blog a lot so that you can focus on ng.  ;)
17:49 colomon_ rakudo: say (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6).max
17:49 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: 6␤
17:49 colomon_ rakudo: say (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6).max(3)
17:49 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'max'␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤
17:49 colomon_ pity, that would be handy
17:50 Coke what does the # there signify? EOF?
17:50 Coke (in 6#)
17:51 fridim_ joined #perl6
17:51 moritz_ Newline
17:51 moritz_ (not a # though, but a N/L character)
17:54 Coke ah. that used to be something that looked like N/L, no?
17:54 TimToady still is
17:54 phenny TimToady: 00:20Z <Juerd_> tell TimToady Could you provide (old or fresh) citations for the three [citation needed]s at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6?
17:55 Coke ah. I presume that whatever terminal magic I setup to be able to view the non-breaking space properly has altered my view of this character. whee.
17:56 Tene Coke: what's the proper view of &nbsp; ?
17:56 TimToady seems to me it oughta look like a space :)
17:56 Coke Tene: was trying to edit one of the docs in pugs, and the nbsp there was garbled.
17:57 Coke and after (I think it was mortiz++) helped me, they now do, in fact, look like spaces.
17:57 TimToady perhaps it's a font issue
17:57 Tene ah
17:57 moritz_ Juerd_: just put up a page on perl6.org/facts/ that contains the facts that wikipedia wants citatations for :-)
17:58 Coke TimToady: this is exactly why I feared the unicode aspects of perl6. =-)
17:59 * Coke idly wonders if there is an acid test for unicode.
18:00 payload joined #perl6
18:05 Coke (not that we shouldn't drag ourselves into the future, mind you.)
18:07 alester joined #perl6
18:15 Juerd_ moritz_: I'm not qualified to determine facts :)
18:20 * colomon_ finally has a build of $work libraries!  (Do they work?  Who knows!)
18:28 hercynium joined #perl6
18:33 colomon_ Three work, the fourth bombs out.  Guess it could be worse...
18:42 dakkar joined #perl6
18:43 REPLeffect_ joined #perl6
18:43 quantumEd joined #perl6
18:44 cdarroch joined #perl6
18:57 colomon_ PerlJam: ping?
18:59 diakopter ng: say
18:59 p6eval ng f2ba53: ␤
19:00 diakopter ng: .say
19:00 p6eval ng f2ba53: Mu()␤
19:01 colomon_ no way!
19:01 diakopter mu way
19:02 colomon_ MOO!
19:08 rfordinal joined #perl6
19:15 IllvilJa joined #perl6
19:20 Nex6 joined #perl6
19:22 mlawren joined #perl6
19:23 markl1 rakudo: say <>.WHAT
19:23 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: List()␤
19:24 markl1 left #perl6
19:24 nihiliad joined #perl6
19:25 KyleHa joined #perl6
19:25 colomon_ rakudo: say Nil.WHAT
19:25 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: Nil()␤
19:31 diakopter ng: ::say.WHAT
19:31 p6eval ng f2ba53: Null PMC access in find_method('WHAT')␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
19:31 diakopter ng: say::say.WHAT
19:31 p6eval ng f2ba53: Null PMC access in invoke()␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤
19:33 diakopter ng: say &::
19:33 p6eval ng f2ba53: Confused at line 1, near "say &::"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 519 (src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:336)␤
19:33 diakopter std: say &::
19:33 p6eval std 29219: ok 00:02 126m␤
19:34 mberends cool SVG demo (posted by warewolf++ in #perl@irc.perl.org): http://people.mozilla.com/~vladimir/demos/photos.svg
19:35 moritz_ nice
19:37 mberends there was a 32" hardware one of those at last weekend's computer fair, multi touch sensitive, called "Microsoft Surface"
19:38 mberends built horizontally into a table
19:40 mberends the JavaScript in the source of the above url looks very nice. let's steal it :)
19:41 rgrau` joined #perl6
19:46 rfordinal left #perl6
20:00 IllvilJa dukeleto: would you be ok with adding into Math::MatrixReal something that corresponds to Math::GSL::Vector::normalize() ?
20:01 IllvilJa That is, if I manage to create a patch that implement it, would you accept it (given the code itself is of sufficient quality)?
20:02 IllvilJa (What I'm talking about is simply to implement a method in Math::MatrixReal that allows for conveniently computing a unit vector for a vector represented as a column vector matrix)
20:07 dukeleto IllvilJa: hello! yes.
20:26 perigrin joined #perl6
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20:38 mariano__ joined #perl6
20:45 Exodist joined #perl6
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21:33 an0n1m8t3r left #perl6
21:41 hakmn joined #perl6
21:42 hakmn i am tryin to execute shell-script using .cgi ...but have a problem in some phases
21:42 hakmn here's .cgi http://pastebin.com/d7a1aec6f    & the shell script i' like to execute  http://fpaste.org/VUx5/
21:43 hakmn i am able to echo but not execute adsl-stop command
21:44 mberends hakmn, are you sure you're in the right channel?
21:45 mberends here is for developing Perl 6, and is not doing CGI all that much
21:45 hakmn ok thankyou
21:45 hakmn left #perl6
21:45 mberends ...good luck
21:46 Cyrus Wacky.
21:46 BinGOs they are getting the desired reaction on #perl at the moment
21:47 BinGOs But if perl6 isn't for CGI what good is it!?
21:47 moritz_ BinGOs: writing books about it, and becoming rich
21:47 moritz_ or so I have been told
21:48 BinGOs Aha. There is a niche for your profiteering then
21:48 BinGOs Perl6 CGI Cookbook
21:51 colomon_ joined #perl6
21:53 frettled Perl 6 is for teh make u rich, mon!
21:53 frettled Just wire me some money at … ;)
21:54 mberends frettled: but wotcha gotta do 2 get rich mon?
21:54 frettled mberends: perl it!
21:54 mberends frettled: aaahh
21:55 * mberends 's op
21:55 jnthn whoz?
21:55 sjohnson BinGOs: all the non CGI stuff is pretty cool
21:56 mberends all da perl haxxorz op
21:59 sjohnson <--
21:59 sjohnson perl hacker in training
21:59 frettled phit
22:00 masak joined #perl6
22:01 masak did somebody say 'haxxorz'? :)
22:02 mberends did that trigger a bot on your computer?
22:02 moritz_ masakbot!
22:02 frettled masakbotwithkanelbulle
22:02 masak mmm, op.
22:03 sjohnson trigged his hax0r-like alter-ego
22:03 masak frettled is being adorably native again.
22:05 sjohnson unlike IE's javascript parser
22:05 masak :D
22:05 frettled I don't think «adorable» is something you'd want to use without a negation then, no.
22:06 frettled argh.  stupidfsdfasghawebserver.  *idle
22:07 masak now I don't really know what frettled is being. :)
22:07 mberends frestrated
22:07 masak 哈哈
22:11 frettled masak: I love those little guys with the Chinese swords.
22:12 synth joined #perl6
22:13 masak frettled: are you under the centuries-old western impression that every hanzi is also a picture? :)
22:15 masak frettled: this kind of hanzi falls into the category 'sound-meaning compound', with the sound being contributed by what you denote 'those little guys' and the meaning by 'the Chinese swords'.
22:15 sjohnson (;'-`)
22:15 frettled masak: I thought you used them specifically because they bore that resemblance.
22:15 quantumEd (;`-')
22:15 masak frettled: no, I use them because I think they are much more sensible than 'LOL' as a marker of laughter.
22:16 frettled masak: aha
22:16 jnthn frettled: Yeah, I coulda sword he did too. ;-)
22:16 masak here we go... :)
22:16 frettled :D
22:16 jnthn \o/ I finished my .Net code review work.
22:16 masak jnthn++
22:16 jnthn @rakudo-distractions.pop
22:16 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
22:17 masak lambdabot is a rakudo distraction. :P
22:17 colomon_ @rakudo-distractions now emtpy....
22:17 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
22:17 frettled @lambdabot-distractions
22:17 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
22:17 masak @unknown-command-try-@list
22:17 lambdabot Unknown command, try @list
22:17 jnthn say @reason-we-hate-lambdabot.elems # Inf
22:18 masak works in ng? :)
22:18 frettled heh
22:18 jnthn ng: say @reason-we-hate-lambdabot.elems
22:18 p6eval ng f2ba53: Symbol '@reason-we-hate-lambdabot' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 137 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:101)␤
22:18 jnthn ng f2ba53: Inf
22:18 jnthn aww!
22:19 frettled That was an awesomely useful error message!
22:19 jnthn "in <anonymous>" was probably unrequired noise.
22:20 jnthn But yes, it's a lot awesomer than many of our errors.
22:21 frettled It's unrequired noise in that simple statement, but it might be helpful for more complex statements.
22:21 jnthn Yeah, true.
22:21 frettled If it's possible to make the verbosity of error messages depend on the size of the context, then that would be awesomest.
22:21 jnthn I mean, I'd want it if it actually had some useful location into. :-)
22:22 frettled m
22:33 jferrero joined #perl6
22:33 kkrev joined #perl6
22:34 masak last day of November blogging, and I have no idea what to do for the Perl 6 part.
22:34 kkrev where does the elf source live?
22:34 hercynium joined #perl6
22:34 moritz_ in the pugs repo
22:34 masak misc/elf
22:35 * moritz_ was looking in v6/ first
22:35 mberends masak, one question for you, are you still in a strange TDD loop on crack?
22:35 masak I was looking through the Elf source the other day.
22:35 masak mberends: yes, but I haven't pushed any of the code yet.
22:35 masak mberends: much of GGE was developed with that TDD framework.
22:36 masak no wait; all of it, in fact.
22:36 mberends maybe blog about your progress there
22:36 masak hm, yes.
22:36 masak time is running out for actually _doing_ anything today anyway.
22:36 moritz_ giat - the glacial, interactive test loop
22:37 moritz_ rakudo: say "fiat".flip.succ.flip
22:37 p6eval rakudo 7ce13d: giat␤
22:37 masak 哈哈
22:37 colomon_ ng: say "fiat".flip.succ.flip
22:37 p6eval ng f2ba53: giat␤
22:37 masak ng" say 'succ'.flip.succ.flip
22:37 masak ng: say 'succ'.flip.succ.flip
22:37 p6eval ng f2ba53: tucc␤
22:38 moritz_ tucc - is that the Tux C Compiler?
22:38 masak must be.
22:38 masak with penguins doing all the JITting.
22:38 moritz_ better than what the bird does today :-)
22:39 mberends eating raw fish instead of memory
22:42 frettled Will we get to see lolmasakhazblogged before or after midnight?
22:42 masak only zaslon will tell.
22:42 moritz_ the answer is "yes", obviously
22:42 masak or Bool::True.
22:42 mberends FSVO midnight ;)
22:44 pnate joined #perl6
22:50 moritz_ masak: might I ask to you to write one adevent calendar entry about fmt?
22:50 masak moritz_: good idea!
22:50 masak I will.
22:52 IllvilJa joined #perl6
22:53 * moritz_ adds another piece to his ever-growing list of Perl 6 TODO items: a Runge-Kutta module
22:55 moritz_ (for the non-math geeks: integrating linear differential equations)
22:55 rlarson`a joined #perl6
22:55 jnthn moritz_: I have a feeling I did that...a looong time ago when I was young.
22:56 jnthn (And not as a Perl 6 module ;-))
22:56 masak awww.
22:57 zaslon lolmasakhazblogged! masak++ 'November 30 2009 -- gobsmacked but still in the loop': http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/39966?from=rss
22:57 masak yay! I don't need to blog every day anymore! :)
22:58 jnthn masak: You made it!
22:58 jnthn masak++
22:59 masak jnthn: though I missed November 20. :)
23:00 masak no wait, November 19.
23:00 masak mostly due to battery charger fail.
23:00 jnthn masak: bouncing *off
23:00 jnthn (not of)
23:00 jnthn Did you mean frickin' ?
23:00 masak oh. fixing.
23:00 jnthn Not frackin' ? :-)
23:01 jnthn I ain't heard the latter before ;-)
23:01 masak it's from Battlestar Galactica. :)
23:02 moritz_ suddenly December
23:02 jnthn omgdecember
23:02 jnthn enonovember
23:02 moritz_ and I've got a thesis to finish, christmas gifts to buy, Perl 6 to finish... all before christams
23:02 jnthn moritz_: Yeah but which one? ;-)
23:03 jnthn .oO( But professor, you didn't specify *this* Christmas for the thesis! )
23:03 moritz_ akshually the thesis is due Dec. 14 2009
23:04 jnthn ooh...that's soonish.
23:07 jnthn masak++ # nice post
23:07 jnthn lilstevey++ # also nice post
23:07 masak yes, lilstevey++ # http://use.perl.org/~lilstevey/journal/39965
23:07 jnthn .^add_method is *so* the way, but it's nyi in master. :-(
23:08 masak works in ng? :)
23:08 jnthn Because we were building classes at the "low level"
23:08 jnthn masak: Yes. *Every* method you write is added by a call to add_method on the metaclass in ng. :-)
23:08 masak every so often, I'm picking up the "I'm not worthy to talk on #perl6" meme in tweets and blog posts.
23:08 jnthn masak: It's one of the essential pieces for custom metaclasses, y'know. :-)
23:09 masak I just want to say to that: _I'm_ not worthy to talk on #perl6 -- and I talk all the time! :D
23:09 jnthn masak: Yes, I saw that. I find it a bit, well...it's not quite the environment we want.
23:09 masak jnthn: you think we are being to egg-headed sometimes?
23:09 jnthn masak: There *is* a lot going on here, which I guess can be intimidating.
23:09 masak maybe we should rap more.
23:10 jnthn masak: I think to a great degree it's inherent in what we're doing.
23:10 jnthn masak: Sometimes there just have to be deep discussions on hard design and/or implementation issues.
23:11 masak "y0 momma's metamodel is so fat, it needs another metamodel just to bootstrap!"
23:11 jnthn :-D
23:11 jnthn lol
23:12 masak "Earlier today, on the borderline of yesterday, masak provided the following example during our IRC conversation, whilst taking part in other discussions. I'm slightly in awe of the multitasking" # you should have seen audreyt++ :)
23:12 frettled jnthn: and it's entertaining and interesting to listen in when I can keep track.  When I can't give track, I have no cause for complaint.
23:12 jnthn masak: I'm not sure that the need to speak in rhyme, would give the channel n00bs an easier time.
23:13 masak jnthn: good point.
23:13 jnthn .oO( And I don't use n00b to be derogatory, brothers realize I came from a meme factory... )
23:14 masak :)
23:14 masak now that I think about it, I find the high number of lurkers in here very comforting.
23:15 masak it means that even though much of the rest of the world has written off Perl 6, there is still a fair amount of interest from some people.
23:17 jnthn Yes, that's true.
23:17 frettled If people have written off Perl 6, is that to reduce their Perl 5 taxes?
23:19 masak .oO( Perl tax evasion )
23:19 mberends masak++: nice that tote is keeping you going. Friendlier than the whip that pmichaud++ breaks out when there's no coding being done ;)
23:19 masak we'll know Perl 6 is taken seriously when you can no longer write it off in your tax form.
23:20 masak mberends: yes, much friendlier. and less imaginary, too. :)
23:20 jnthn ...it's imaginary?
23:21 jnthn .oO( $whip\i )
23:21 * jnthn hopes to get a bunch of role bits sorted out tomorrow.
23:22 jnthn I think we're close to having a lot of the meta-model back in place, and properly this time. :-)
23:22 jnthn Provided I can make it work, infix:<does> and infix:<but> are now pure Perl 6. :-)
23:27 masak cool!
23:36 perigrin yay
23:36 sjohnson y0
23:44 ihrd joined #perl6
23:57 ihrd left #perl6
23:58 diakopter ng: say do { };
23:58 p6eval ng f2ba53: Null PMC access in type()␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤

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