Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-03-29

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:21 lue rakudo: say "test"
00:21 p6eval rakudo 8f7d29:  ( no output )
00:21 lue .oO(darn, still broken)
00:27 lichtkind hello lue
00:29 lue hi lichtkind o/
00:29 lichtkind lue: i just finished regex modifier
00:31 pugssvn r30233 | lue++ | [t/spec] added test for RT #73836 (Z infix operator)
00:31 lue \o/
00:31 lue lichtkind++
00:32 lichtkind lue: thank but i dont write code like you
00:32 lue what do you mean?
00:34 lichtkind lue: i didnt wrote any test nor implemented something just wrote in http://wiki.perl-community.de/​Wissensbasis/Perl6TafelAnhangA
00:36 lue ah, I see :)
00:37 lue I personally think it's great somebody is willing to document Perl 6 :)
00:38 lichtkind lue: thank you did you read my blog posts?
00:38 lue I don't believe I have (been gone for a few days)
00:38 lichtkind lue: its just releasing to me because german is almost in sync with english version again
00:38 lichtkind lue: just wanted to ask if its boring written or too braging
00:39 lichtkind especially since latest 2 post on planetsix.org are mine :)
00:40 snarkyboojum planetsix.org?
00:40 snarkyboojum ah planetsix.perl.org
00:40 * snarkyboojum is a bit slow this morning
00:41 lichtkind snarkyboojum: and i was too lazy to write full name :)
00:41 snarkyboojum :)
00:43 lichtkind i would be glad for any feedback
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00:43 snarkyboojum lichtkind: from memory you mentioned the grok tool
00:44 snarkyboojum what's the status of that do you know?
00:44 lue lichtkind: good posts!
00:44 lichtkind snarkyboojum: i never touched that project, it just takes something from me as input
00:44 lue .u thumb
00:44 phenny lue: Sorry, no results for 'thumb'.
00:44 lue .u hand
00:44 phenny U+270C VICTORY HAND (✌)
00:44 lue .u 270D
00:44 phenny U+270D WRITING HAND (✍)
00:44 lue .u 270B
00:44 phenny U+270B (No name found)
00:45 lichtkind snarkyboojum: it also uses another project of mine
00:46 lichtkind snarkyboojum: as far as i know it was a GSOC project and since soc 2009 was over i dint heard much of it
00:47 lichtkind snarkyboojum: but i had a issue and hinrik responded
00:47 lichtkind so i would tell he is still bit commited to that
00:50 snarkyboojum lichtkind: would be cool to start using grok
00:50 lichtkind snarkyboojum: for you ? :)
00:51 snarkyboojum lichtkind: yeah
00:51 snarkyboojum you using it?
00:51 snarkyboojum is this it? http://github.com/hinrik/grok/
00:58 lichtkind yes
00:58 lichtkind snarkyboojum: never did
00:58 snarkyboojum lichtkind: sounds cool - I'll have to give it a try :)
01:01 lichtkind yes i would say its good, so far i have seen
01:01 lichtkind the sources ive seen looked good
01:04 lue alpha: my @a=1,2,3; @a[3]:=@a[1]; @a[1]=4;say @a[3]; @a[3]=5; say @a[1]
01:05 lue bye dalek! o/
01:06 lue if things like @a[1]:=@a[2] are NYI, that would likely be my next project. (Alas, my vacation is nearing completion :( )
01:06 p6eval alpha 30e0ed:  ( no output )
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01:14 pugssvn r30234 | lwall++ | [STD] de-LTA messages on malformed pairs for moritz_++
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01:35 lichtkind good night fellas
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01:43 lue night o/ (ETOOLATE)
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02:58 pausenclown rakudo: "blah foo blah" ~~ / foo { make 'bar' } /; say $/;
02:59 p6eval rakudo 8f7d29:  ( no output )
03:00 lue akf
03:00 lue OOPS afk
03:02 pausenclown rakudo: "4" ~~ / (\d) { make $0.sqrt } /; say $/
03:02 p6eval rakudo 8f7d29:  ( no output )
03:02 pausenclown pugs: "4" ~~ / (\d) { make $0.sqrt } /; say $/
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03:03 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {␤    unshift @INC, '/home/p6eval/.cabal/share/Pugs-6​.2.13.14/blib6/pugs/perl5/lib';␤    eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;␤}␤'Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge'␤"␤*** '<HANDLE>' trapped by operat…
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03:51 diakopter p6eval can't resurrect itself currently.
03:51 diakopter rakudo segfaulting
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03:54 diakopter meanwhile, Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
03:55 diakopter rakudo: say 'riding the clouds with abandon'
03:55 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«riding the clouds with abandon␤»
03:55 diakopter o goodie.
03:56 diakopter Tene: yer back in biznus
03:57 was kicked by diakopter: phonebooths are too cramped for outfit changing, anyway
03:59 spinclad thx diakopterKICKED++
04:00 lue yay! p6eval is back
04:00 lue perl6: say "oh happy day"
04:00 p6eval elf 30234, pugs, rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«oh happy day␤»
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04:14 sjohnson diakopters been really rough on himself as of late
04:16 lue seems that way :)
04:17 sorear perl6 = elf?
04:19 lue that's just one implementation of P6
04:19 lue elf: say "hello"
04:19 p6eval elf 30234: OUTPUT«hello␤»
04:19 sorear perl6: say 42
04:19 sorear is it random?
04:19 p6eval elf 30234, pugs, rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«42␤»
04:20 sorear oh, it always does elf, pugs, rakudo
04:27 lue .u foot
04:27 phenny U+23CD SQUARE FOOT (⏍)
04:30 pugssvn r30235 | vamped++ | Perl 5 thinko - changed  to bash for first regex match
04:31 vamped darn, that interpolated my message. Should have said "changed $1 to $0"
04:33 lue oh well
04:35 lue darn perl-like Bourne Again SHell :)
04:47 lue anybody here?
04:48 vamped nope
04:48 lue :/ nobody's ever here when I ask [ :) ]
04:49 lue if you have firefox, you login to and use the RT frequently, then try this: https://addons.mozilla.org/​en-US/firefox/addon/116888/
04:49 vamped it's too late US time and too early European time
04:49 lue As of now, you need to be logged in to rt.perl.org to use it, but still, it's the first version.
04:50 vamped who made it - you?
04:52 lue yes, which is why it's not that good :)
04:52 vamped I'll look into it, and congrats on creating your first (?) firefox add-on.
04:55 lue I plan on creating a P6 sidebar at some point, which takes care of the "has to be logged in" problem (among other things of course)
04:56 lue rakudo: say (<a b c> Z [1,*]).perl
04:56 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«GatherIterator.new()␤»
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05:04 lue hi colomon o/
05:04 lue afk
05:30 lue upon review, it seems that searching the Public interface works if you are either logged in or not...
05:57 lue good night
05:58 colomon o/
05:58 colomon rakudo: say (<a b c> Z [1,*]).eager.perl
05:58 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«("a", 1, "b", !whatever_dispatch_helper)␤»
05:58 colomon rakudo: say (<a b c> Z 1...*).eager.perl
05:59 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«("a", 1, "b", 2, "c", 3)␤»
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06:34 moritz_ good morning
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07:30 mathw Morning
07:39 moritz_ rakudo: say 1
07:39 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«1␤»
07:39 moritz_ std: 1
07:39 p6eval std 30235: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 107m␤»
07:39 * mathw has pleasant daydreams of slowly eviscerating one of his colleagues who's made a mess in the SVN repo
07:41 mathw I should write a song
07:41 mathw In which someone checks in some build products and some code that doesn't compile
07:42 mathw And suffers a horrible consequence
07:42 moritz_ std: :!$foo
07:42 p6eval std 30235: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Malformed False pair at /tmp/4haUnosNxz line 1:␤------> [32m:![33m⏏[31m$foo[0m␤FAILED 00:01 105m␤»
07:42 * moritz_ had to look up eviscerate
07:43 moritz_ it's a lovely word.
07:44 hejki eviscerate reminds me too much of wow
07:44 hejki depressing word :>
07:46 mathw it's a good word for certain situations that don't come up all that often in real life
07:47 mathw but we've got windows-specific code in something that's supposed to be cross-platform
07:47 mathw and that's not on at all
07:49 hejki i'm usually less discreet and use more .. depicting/descriptive words :)
07:49 hejki like 'disembowel'
07:49 mathw I tend to find 'disembowel' is something that's hard to imagine doing slowly
07:50 mathw 'eviscerate' sounds slower
07:50 hejki well disembowelment is pretty close to evisceration
07:50 hejki disembowelment usually involves ripping out guts too
07:51 hejki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dise​mbowelment#Transanal_evisceration
07:51 mathw yes
07:57 mathw wikipedia truly does have everything
07:58 hejki yes :>
07:58 hejki only thing i'm not thinking about is that and rule #34
07:58 hejki s/not// :>
08:00 mathw probably wise to not think about that too much
08:00 mathw let's think about Perl instead
08:01 moritz_ speaking of which
08:01 moritz_ I've made some commits to the book yesterday night
08:02 moritz_ somebody with more English skillz than I could review them
08:06 mathw I can do that
08:06 mathw just... not today
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08:38 moritz_ to all lurkers: If you are a student, Google might pay you to hack on fun Perl 6 projects
08:38 moritz_ we participate in this year's "Summer of Code" project
08:39 moritz_ if you're interested, raise your hand... erm, voice, and we'll think of a cool project
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08:51 hejki a student
08:51 hejki :<
08:51 hejki i could've raised my hand otherwise :>
08:52 moritz_ hey, you can still hack on interesting things
08:52 moritz_ just the payment part might be problematic
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08:52 hejki well i really don't need payment (in case the things i'm involved in doesn't require full-time attention either :))
08:53 hejki also i've already contributed to the rakudo pre-ng
08:53 hejki so payment isn't really an issue
08:53 hejki my gf studies tho.. so i could sign up with her name? :)
08:53 moritz_ "Google defines a student as an individual enrolled in or accepted into an accredited institution including (but not necessarily limited to) colleges, universities, masters programs, PhD programs and undergraduate programs."
08:53 moritz_ :-)
08:54 hejki btw.. does google retain ownership of the code or is it GPLed?
08:54 hejki i'm not giving anything to google for free
08:54 moritz_ it needs to be open-sourced
08:55 moritz_ but you retain ownership
08:55 hejki i prefer full GPL
08:56 * hejki works in a company exploiting BSD/MIT-license :>
08:56 hejki licenses*
08:56 moritz_ (but that's again if you  participate in SOC, in which case google pays you anyway )
08:56 moritz_ hejki: there's no exploiting in using software under the terms it was published under
08:57 hejki moritz_: by exploitation i refer to the fact software is chosen by licenses in certain situations
08:57 hejki moritz_: and ofc the free for commercial-use licenses are the most appealing for a company offering services on a open source setup
08:58 moritz_ I also find that legitimate
08:58 hejki also there are some border-cases where GPL is interpreted as badly as it can be :)
08:58 hejki ofc it's legitimate, i just don't like it
08:58 moritz_ now that's not so nice
08:58 hejki i think this stuff should be GPLized
08:58 hejki or at least parts of it
08:58 hejki at least our transparent SMTP tagging proxy
08:59 hejki i wouldn't GPLize the perl code tho.. it's so awfully ugly :D
08:59 moritz_ :-)
08:59 hejki well imagine compilation of 15k+ rows with no strict/no warnings
09:00 hejki that's what i work with on daily basis :P
09:00 hejki but the SoC sounds nice, how do i sign up? :>
09:00 hejki (also this is something i might benefit from on my future career ;))
09:01 hejki after all google is making unit in finland, i could work there :>
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09:01 moritz_ well, there are two ways to participate
09:01 moritz_ either as student or as a mentor
09:02 moritz_ as a student, you have to be a student (see <http://socghop.appspot.com/document/s​how/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs>) somewhere
09:02 hejki s/mentor/project manager/; ? :)
09:02 moritz_ yes, that's basically it
09:02 hejki well i'm alreadya BEng so participating as a student isn't really the eligible option for me :P
09:02 moritz_ :(
09:02 moritz_ I'm going to be a PHD student soonish
09:03 moritz_ so I actually could participate as a student :-)
09:03 hejki heh.. if i ever get Ph.D it's since i'm going to be a teacher :>
09:03 hejki how's the mentor role in SoC? i guess they have some sort of requirements
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09:04 moritz_ well, if a student choses a project that's interesting for you, and you want to mentor, you should have experience with the development of that project
09:04 moritz_ so that you can give the student directions (settiing up a development environment, introducing to other developers, organizing commit bits etc.)
09:05 hejki oh
09:05 hejki i don't want that.. i want to code
09:05 hejki :D
09:06 * moritz_ prefers coding to managing too
09:06 moritz_ but OTOH if it helps to get work done, I also do managing
09:08 hejki if i couldn't code, i'd be a consult/specialist/analyst :>
09:10 moritz_ :-)
09:11 hejki well.. i'm a software specialist atm, but i do lots of coding too :P
09:11 hejki but everytime we need something other, like new software/solutions i'm the guy going google frenzy ;>
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10:08 hejki hmm.. i found myself a suitable coding table http://www.ergoquest.com/c​omputer_table_7_ezg_1.jpg
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11:04 * sorear prods jnthn at the latest blizkost commit
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11:37 jnthn oh hai, 6folk.
11:40 m6locks hai
11:40 m6locks lunch time, bbl
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12:06 masak oh hai, #perl6
12:06 jnthn yayitsmasak!
12:06 hejki rakudo: class Greet { has $.name is rw; method ohai { say "ohai $.name"; } };  my $g = Greet.new(name => 'masak'); $g.ohai();
12:07 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«ohai masak␤»
12:07 masak wow :)
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12:11 mathw we haz a masak!
12:12 frettled \o/
12:12 masak so... whoz op today?
12:12 frettled masakfest!
12:12 frettled jnthn := op
12:13 jnthn Ja...jag har en kanelbrulle!
12:13 * jnthn shares
12:13 masak '-bulle' :)
12:13 masak (thanks)
12:13 jnthn Aww!
12:13 jnthn At least it's closer than kamelbullar.
12:14 frettled I just got back from Gran Canaria (two-week cycling training camp), and read about pmichaud's woes.  Ow, that hurts.  :(  I really hope for the best for you, your wife and family!
12:14 mathw masak does Op;
12:14 jnthn .oO( The whirlpool approach to Swedish )
12:14 frettled jnthn: kamelbrillar!
12:14 masak jnthn: I'm not 100% sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if sv:'bulle' and en:'bun' were related.
12:14 masak jnthn: probably arnsholt can answer that. :)
12:20 jnthn :-)
12:20 jnthn I believe bap has Scottish origins, but not sure about bun.
12:22 masak lichtkind, snarkyboojum: [backlogging] grok is a nice application. it's used in Padre AFAIK. I'm always on the verge of providing content for it in the form of interlinked Pod articles. I will surely let myself be inspired at lichtkind++'s work when doing that.
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12:24 pausenclown rakudo: "" ~~ / { make 'bar' } /; say $/
12:24 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«␤»
12:25 pausenclown rakudo: "" ~~ / { $0 = 'bar' } /; say $/
12:25 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to readonly value␤current instr.: '&die' pc 17189 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:399)␤»
12:25 jnthn rakudo: "" ~~ / { make 'bar' } /; say $/.ast
12:25 pausenclown darn
12:25 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«␤»
12:25 jnthn Oh.
12:25 jnthn That one probably should work. :-/
12:25 jnthn rakudo: "" ~~ / { make 'bar' } /; say ?$/
12:25 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«1␤»
12:26 pausenclown rakudo: "123" ~~ / \d* :: \d /; say $/
12:26 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«:: not yet implemented at line 11, near " \\d /; say"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
12:27 moritz_ alpha: "123" ~~ / \d* :: \d /; say $/
12:27 p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«␤»
12:27 moritz_ (that's correct)
12:29 pausenclown i have a question regarding my xml parse regarding parsed entities.
12:30 pausenclown in xml, the parse shall treat parsed entities as if their values (which can contain other markup).
12:31 pausenclown are noted where that entity occurs. that makes it a little tricky.
12:32 masak why?
12:32 masak do you have a concrete example?
12:32 * moritz_ doesn't grok the question
12:33 pausenclown for instance i have <!ENTITY wt "<foo />"> which gets referred later as &wt;
12:34 pausenclown the parser will have to creat a start tag event for foo, once it reads &wt;
12:35 moritz_ so you need to store an entity table
12:35 moritz_ probably with a code reference that you call in the action method
12:35 moritz_ (except for normal entities, which just contain a Str)
12:36 pausenclown i'm not sure how to do that. my idea is to apply the grammar from within a closure when i have read an entity, feed its value to the grammar and assign the resulting parse tree to $0
12:36 moritz_ and this code ref triggers the start event for foo
12:37 moritz_ pausenclown: there's a slight problem with that: $/.from and $/.to will be totally unrelated to the original XML if you do a re-parse
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12:39 pausenclown why should something i do in a closure affect it's outside? or is a grammar a singleton?
12:41 moritz_ rakudo: sub foo { 1 }; sub foo($x) { 1; }
12:41 p6eval rakudo 534afd:  ( no output )
12:42 pausenclown interesting. which one wins?
12:43 moritz_ rakudo: sub foo { 1 }; sub foo($x) { 1; }; say foo()
12:43 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«1␤»
12:43 moritz_ rakudo: sub foo { 1 }; sub foo($x) { 1; }; say foo(3)
12:43 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤current instr.: 'foo' pc 222 (EVAL_1:89)␤»
12:43 moritz_ the first one
12:43 moritz_ actually it should error out
12:43 moritz_ RT #71810
12:43 masak p6l email starting with 'It may not have any practical use, but [...]' -- masak stops reading :)
12:44 jnthn The answer to that thread is, "All of these belong in modules."
12:44 moritz_ aye
12:44 moritz_ that's what we have multi dispatch for
12:44 moritz_ so that you can write your on infix:<cmp>(Complex, Complex)
12:45 colomon Actually TimToady discussed an ordering for Complex with me a month ago, and I've already got plans to extend it to all Numerics.  ;)
12:45 colomon afk --> noms
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12:54 masak good post by mst++ -- http://www.shadowcat.co.uk/blog/ma​tt-s-trout/show-us-the-whole-code/
12:55 mathw he always sets off my irc highlighter
12:55 masak something in me wants to get up and cry, 'at least you have line numbers! :<'
12:55 mathw why are people allowed to have the same first namea s me
12:55 pausenclown rakudo: grammar G { rule TOP { 1 }; method parse { 0; } } G.parse("1");
12:55 moritz_ if anyone wants a LHF to write tests for: RT #64606 should be pretty simple
12:55 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "grammar G "␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
12:57 mathw masak: that's a great link to poke people with when they argue about whether an extensible grammar is better than a source filter :)
12:58 masak I like how all the details in that post conspire to give the client the wrong impression.
12:58 masak and only a pro like mst can diagnose it and stay sane. :)
12:59 masak er, stay on the same sanity level. :P
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13:04 mathw only somebody who's already tussled with Switch.pm
13:07 pausenclown i dont get how to call up the inheritance chain.
13:07 jnthn nextsame and friends.
13:07 masak last time I looked, 'nextsame' and friends did three different things in different contexts.
13:08 masak inheritance chain, multi dispatch, and wrapping.
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13:08 jnthn True; it's a general abstraction for "next best candidate".
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13:09 masak it would be interesting to see what difficulties arise when these three are combined in different ways.
13:10 masak let's say I want to go to the next MMD candidate while wrapping a method, for example.
13:11 jnthn When you're in the wrapper of the wrappee?
13:11 nadim joined #perl6
13:11 masak the wrapper. the one where 'nextsame' means 'go into the wrappee'.
13:12 jnthn Well, then you're probably screwed...
13:12 moritz_ so you need an adverb to nextsame() that tells you in which direction to walk... -)
13:12 jnthn callnext(:pub);
13:12 moritz_ (smiley with eyes closed)
13:14 jnthn Won't really work with
13:14 jnthn er, with with
13:15 moritz_ callnext($pos, :$named):pub
13:16 masak I mean, if you usify three concepts, you have to be prepared to waterbed the places where they're *not* like each other.
13:18 jnthn Aye
13:18 jnthn I don't know what the answer is there.
13:18 moritz_ our new meme: "waterbed" as a verb
13:18 jnthn I waterbeded the whole Perl 6.
13:31 PerlJam jnthn: does that mean you pushed something down in Perl 6 and it popped up somewhere else?  (like Ruby :)?
13:31 rgrau` joined #perl6
13:39 pausenclown rakudo: grammar G { has $.callback is rw;  rule TOP { .+ { say .callback; } } };  G.callback = { say "got" }; G.parse("123");
13:39 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Type objects are abstract and have no attributes, but you tried to access ␤current instr.: 'perl6;Attribute;accessor_helper_rw' pc 3559 (src/gen/Attribute.pir:423)␤»
13:43 pausenclown is there any way to communicate to the outside from a grammar closure?
13:45 dalek joined #perl6
13:45 pausenclown nah forget that q. makes no sense.
13:46 masak pausenclown: declare a lexical outside, assign to it inside.
13:47 masak for some reason, people also like to declare dynamicals in this situation.
13:48 masak perhaps it has something to do with TimToady's quote (paraphrasing) "a lexical nesting in the thing being parsed corresponds ot a dynamical nesting in the parser"
13:49 masak s/ot/to/
13:54 pmurias joined #perl6
13:55 pmurias ruoso: ping
13:58 pausenclown didnt mst promised to blog about perl6 regularly?
13:58 pmurias mst?
13:58 masak not that I know.
13:59 pausenclown ah no, that was catalyst =)
14:01 Abraka joined #perl6
14:01 pausenclown is the alpha branch RC for the * release?
14:03 pausenclown oh and by the way, do we have an idea of the actual release date of *?
14:04 masak no, the alpha branch is the branch we used to call 'master' before we made the newer 'ng' branch master.
14:05 mathw there is no branch for the * release
14:05 masak we haven't pinned down the Rakudo * release date, but we're leaning towards "after April" right now. April used to be the preliminary target month, but it isn't anymore.
14:05 pausenclown too bad, cause it supports :: in regex
14:06 pausenclown what do you mean "there is no branch for the * release"?
14:07 masak there's no separate branch for the first Rakudo * release.
14:07 pausenclown masak: good news (somehow). leaves me time to finish XML::Parser =)
14:07 jnthn pausenclown: What's in master now is what we're hacking into shape to become Rakudo *.
14:08 pausenclown that's what i meant.
14:08 jnthn pausenclown: Yes, there's some things in the alpha branch that dodn't work in master yet, but they shoudl by Rakudo *.
14:08 pausenclown who is working on the grammars?
14:12 jnthn bkeeler++ and moritz_++ have both done some bits of late, with guidance from pmichaud++.
14:12 Lorn joined #perl6
14:14 pausenclown k. tx
14:16 justatheory joined #perl6
14:19 am0c joined #perl6
14:21 masak ooh, bkeeler++ # http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=73862
14:22 jnthn BTW, does anybody know what the "build with distutils" patch is all about that's on the perl6-compiler list?
14:25 jnthn bkeeler++ !!! :-D
14:28 ruoso hmm... everytime I'll pong to pmurias, he already left the channel
14:31 sorear joined #perl6
14:31 ash_ joined #perl6
14:33 moritz_ jnthn: it's about removing the perl 5 dependency from the Rakudo build
14:34 jnthn moritz_: Does it also replace the use of makefiles?
14:35 mikehh joined #perl6
14:36 moritz_ jnthn: yes
14:36 nihiliad joined #perl6
14:39 jnthn Oh.
14:39 jnthn I'm...not sure how I feel about that.
14:40 * moritz_ not either
14:40 jnthn My initial reaction is "no".
14:40 jnthn But would be good to see what pmichaud++ makes of it.
14:40 abra joined #perl6
14:41 moritz_ it might get rid of some of our platform specific limitations in Makefile
14:42 jnthn Specifically?
14:42 ash_ it should be possible to make everything with platform independent makefiles and config files
14:42 jnthn Makefiles may not be perfect, but they're a known quantity, and I wouldn't say they've been a particular pain point for Rakudo.
14:43 ash_ not saying you need to change that, but its 'possible' lots of other projects can do it, i see no reason rakudo and parrot cant
14:43 dj_goku_ joined #perl6
14:43 colomon joined #perl6
14:43 moritz_ jnthn: for example for splitting the compilation of core files, both mberends++ and I wanted some substitution rules
14:43 ash_ parrot is the more scary one, since it does so much code generation with perl
14:44 pmurias joined #perl6
14:44 jnthn moritz_: Ah, OK.
14:44 moritz_ jnthn: or for example generic rules like "this is how you compile a .pm to a .pir file"
14:44 jnthn *nod*
14:47 moritz_ it seems that when compilation of the core files is splitted up, the next bottleneck will be compiling the actions
14:48 moritz_ which also takes up about 500M
14:48 jnthn On 64-bit?
14:48 * jnthn was getting more like 300M for that.
14:48 moritz_ jnthn: aye
14:48 jnthn Aye, I'm 32, so...
14:49 jnthn Well, my PC is...as for me... :-)
14:49 moritz_ :-)
14:50 ash_ i wonder how bad that is on non x86 platforms... like ppc or something
14:52 moritz_ std: EMPTY
14:52 p6eval std 30235: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 107m␤»
14:53 molaf joined #perl6
15:00 masak I'd just like to report that the stacktraces in Rakudo are back to being insanely long.
15:00 masak I think they're even longer than when people were complaining about them being far too long last time, and someone fixed it.
15:00 moritz_ and are also back to be totally useless
15:00 masak yes.
15:00 * masak submits rakudobug
15:01 jnthn I could make them shorter, but unless the Parrot folks hand chance to unbreak some bits yet, I can't see them being awesomely useful. :-/
15:01 nacho joined #perl6
15:01 jnthn To give you an idea of how bad current state is, unless it improved very recently: the PIR line numbers are useless because they point to the start of the sub.
15:02 colomon I was just wondering how hard it would be to buy a small PPC box.
15:03 colomon I was thinking for my work, but it would be good to have Rakudo tested there regularly too, if it's not already...
15:03 TiMBuS joined #perl6
15:05 patspam1 joined #perl6
15:07 * jnthn afk for a little bit
15:10 moritz_ phenny, tell mberends that I made some small progress on the separate compilation of core files, but accidentally pushed it to branch split-setting (which seemed to be identical to split-gen-setting-2 branch...)
15:10 phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when mberends is around.
15:11 masak the new Rakudo master doesn't support <?{{ ... }}> assertions anymore, does it?
15:13 moritz_ that was... what? PIR interpolation?
15:13 masak yes, with a boolean return which said whether to continue or not.
15:16 masak rakudo: say "working yet?"
15:16 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«working yet?␤»
15:16 masak \o/
15:18 masak rakudo: regex foo { (\d+) <?{ $0.chars > 4 }> '!' }; say $_ ~~ /<foo>/ for '1234!', '123456!'
15:18 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«You can not add a regex to a module; use a class, role or grammar ␤current instr.: 'perl6;Perl6;Compiler;Module;methods' pc 29118 (src/gen/package_pm.pir:448)␤»
15:18 * masak scowls
15:18 masak rakudo: grammar G { regex foo { (\d+) <?{ $0.chars > 4 }> '!' } }; say $_ ~~ /<G::foo>/ for '1234!', '123456!'
15:18 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«regex assertion not terminated by angle bracket at line 11, near "::foo>/ fo"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
15:19 moritz_ masak: G::foo NYI
15:19 TimToady std: grammar G { regex foo { (\d+) <?{ $0.chars > 4 }> '!' } }; say $_ ~~ /<G::foo>/ for '1234!', '123456!'
15:19 * masak submits TODO rakudobug
15:19 p6eval std 30235: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 111m␤»
15:20 TimToady std: $42foo(43)
15:20 TimToady std: :42foo(43)
15:21 * TimToady wonders whether he crashed feather...
15:21 moritz_ p6eval doesn't run on feather :-)
15:21 p6eval std 30235: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Whitespace is required between alphanumeric tokens at /tmp/x2RisKbAgL line 1:␤------> [32m$42[33m⏏[31mfoo(43)[0m␤»
15:21 p6eval std 30235: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Extra argument not allowed; pair already has argument of 42 at /tmp/LcNIZovOFK line 1:␤------> [32m:42foo[33m⏏[31m(43)[0m␤FAILED 00:01 105m␤»
15:21 masak rakudo: grammar G { regex TOP { (\d+) <?{ $0.chars > 4 }> '!' } }; say G.parse($_) for '1234!', '123456!'
15:21 p6eval rakudo 534afd:  ( no output )
15:22 masak :(
15:25 moritz_ rakudo: grammar G { regex TOP { (\d+) <?{ Bool::True }> '!' } }; say G.parse($_) for '1234!', '123456!'
15:26 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«1234!␤123456!␤»
15:26 moritz_ rakudo: grammar G { regex TOP { (\d+) <?{ Bool::False }> '!' } }; say G.parse($_) for '1234!', '123456!'
15:26 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«␤␤»
15:26 moritz_ masak: I suspect the problem is really $0 or $/
15:27 masak how so?
15:27 moritz_ you see, it does matter if you return a true or false value
15:27 moritz_ rakudo: grammar G { regex TOP { (\d+) <?{ say $/ }> '!' } }; say G.parse($_) for '1234!', '123456!'
15:27 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«1234␤1234!␤123456␤123456!␤»
15:27 alester joined #perl6
15:27 moritz_ rakudo: grammar G { regex TOP { (\d+) <?{ say $0 }> '!' } }; say G.parse($_) for '1234!', '123456!'
15:28 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«1234␤1234!␤123456␤123456!␤»
15:28 moritz_ rakudo: grammar G { regex TOP { (\d+) <?{ say $0.chars }> '!' } }; say G.parse($_) for '1234!', '123456!'
15:28 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«4␤1234!␤6␤123456!␤»
15:28 moritz_ hurm
15:28 moritz_ but $/ seems to be just fine
15:43 * masak senses pmichaud++'s presence through email
15:45 [particle]1 the force is strong in this one.
15:45 stepnem joined #perl6
15:48 [particle]1 for some reason, i can't switch my nick to [particle]
15:48 pugssvn r30236 | lwall++ | [STD] be a bit more explicit on what was expected after :!
15:49 [particle] [particle]1: i can ;)
15:50 [particle]1 interesting....
15:51 * moritz_ bought an USB cable today to get that freakin' printer working... and now can't find the cable anywhere
15:51 TimToady where did you put it?
15:52 [particle]1 is it plugged into the printer?
15:52 pmurias [particle]1: what happens when you \nick [particle]
15:52 moritz_ ISTR in my pocket.. might have lost it on the bike ride home
15:52 moritz_ [particle]1: not that easy :)
15:52 [particle]1 pmurias: nothing, no response
15:52 pmurias \nick [particle]
15:53 TimToady the most typical hiding places in our house: under something, in something, at eye-level, or where-it-belongs...
15:53 moritz_ if you use irssi, change to window 1 after the attempted nick change
15:53 [particle]1 i'm using pidgin
15:53 [particle]1 maybe time to quit freenode and reattach
15:53 [particle]1 ah, heck, i'll just restart pidgin
15:53 TimToady or on any random horizontal surface...
15:54 * moritz_ found the cashier's receipt for the cable
15:54 [particle]1 ah, good, now you can return the missing cable and get one you can find.
15:54 TimToady I sense a disturbance in the farce...
15:55 [particle] joined #perl6
15:56 * moritz_ finds a round tuit in his pocket
15:56 moritz_ somebody handed those out in Copenhagen
15:56 TimToady maybe you should have used a cable tie
15:56 pyrimidine joined #perl6
15:57 TimToady .oO(What has it got in its pocketses?  Cable or nothing...)
15:57 moritz_ don't punic!
16:10 nihiliad joined #perl6
16:10 pyrimidine moritz_: regarding GSoC, if anyone out there is interested in implementing some bioinformatics-based work in perl6 we (BioPerl and OBF) might have a slot available:
16:10 pyrimidine http://blogs.perl.org/users/pyrimidine/2010/0​3/bioperl-and-the-google-summer-of-code.html
16:11 masak ooh.
16:12 TimToady isn't it about time to start coming up with April Fools jokes?
16:13 masak dunno, people seem to think Perl 6 is funny enough as it is :P
16:14 JimmyNeutron joined #perl6
16:14 TimToady Polish government to donate $78M to Perl 6 project if they'll use .pl extension
16:15 masak :P
16:15 masak That joke probably needs some polish...
16:16 jnthn .oO( Can we get Saint Pierre to join Poland in a bidding war? :-) )
16:16 TimToady they might just both decide to cooperatively hire assassins instead :)
16:16 hejki "Microsoft buys Perl6 for $88M to use in future projects"
16:17 TimToady that one is more likely to be swallowed whole
16:18 TimToady given that Microsoft probably has more money than the Polish government...
16:18 pausenclown sad but true.
16:20 TimToady s/future projects/new Microsoft phone platform/
16:20 masak rakudo: class A { multi method new() { |%_ } }'
16:21 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Placeholder variables cannot be used in a method at line 11, near "}'"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
16:21 * masak submits rakudobug
16:21 pausenclown Redmond: Microsoft to support Perl6.NET. Larry Wall now a member of the board. Stallman: "It was 'bout time, sweetie."
16:21 masak rakudo: class A { method f() { |%_ } }'
16:21 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Placeholder variables cannot be used in a method at line 11, near "}'"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
16:22 jnthn D'oh.
16:22 TimToady std: class A { method f() { |%_ } }'
16:22 jnthn It's right, but obviously wrong. :_)
16:22 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Placeholder variable %_ cannot override existing signature () at /tmp/MGNBaqm09z line 1:␤------> [32mclass A { method f() { |%_[33m⏏[31m } }'[0m␤    expecting any of:␤     POST␤   postfix␤  postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤FAILED 00:01 109m␤»
16:23 * jnthn sorta prefers Rakudo's message.
16:23 TimToady why can't they be used in methods?
16:23 jnthn When it's legitimate that is.
16:23 jnthn Well, %_ is already defined in a method anyway.
16:23 masak oh, is it the parens?
16:23 jnthn But basically because a method already has a signature.
16:23 TimToady std: class A { method f { |%_ } }'
16:23 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Missing punctuation (semicolon or comma?) after block at /tmp/xW0rYBO7Tu line 1:␤------> [32mclass A { method f { |%_ } }[33m⏏[31m'[0m␤    expecting any of:␤       POST␤   bracketed infix␤    horizontal whitespace␤    infix or meta-infix␤
16:23 p6eval ..postfix␤        postfix_prefi…
16:23 jnthn The invocant implies it.
16:23 masak rakudo: class A { method f(*%_) { |%_ } }'
16:23 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Placeholder variables cannot be used in a method at line 11, near "}'"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
16:24 jnthn That's certainly a bug
16:24 clintongormley joined #perl6
16:24 TimToady std: class A { method f(*%_) { |%_ } }'
16:24 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Missing punctuation (semicolon or comma?) after block at /tmp/i9MIpYULG6 line 1:␤------> [32mclass A { method f(*%_) { |%_ } }[33m⏏[31m'[0m␤    expecting any of:␤  POST␤   bracketed infix␤    horizontal whitespace␤    infix or meta-infix␤
16:24 p6eval ..postfix␤        postfix_…
16:24 * masak thought the invocant always implied it.
16:24 TimToady stdbug, I guess
16:24 masak yay! two in one!
16:24 pausenclown Larry is always right, except when he isnt't =)
16:25 TimToady but the invocant doesn't imply a sig to me
16:25 jnthn Oh
16:25 jnthn Well, patches welcome. :-)
16:25 TimToady the stdbug to which I refer is the "Missing punctuation"
16:25 TimToady std: class A { method f(*%_) { |%_ } };'
16:25 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤(Possible runaway string from line 1 to line 2)␤Bogus statement at /tmp/7Nt2v2xuSW line 1:␤------> [32mclass A { method f(*%_) { |%_ } };[33m⏏[31m'[0m␤FAILED 00:01 108m␤»
16:25 clintongormley joined #perl6
16:26 TimToady oh, it's the '
16:26 TimToady std: class A { method f(*%_) { |%_ } }
16:26 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 107m␤»
16:26 TimToady not a stdbug then
16:26 TimToady std: method f { say $^a }
16:26 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
16:26 TimToady std is fine with methods using placeholders
16:27 jnthn Yeah, but std just has to parse. :-P
16:28 TimToady in the case, no, it's analyzing the sig
16:28 TimToady or lack thereof
16:28 jnthn Well, as I said, patches welcome, or I'll get to it at some point.
16:29 TimToady "patches welcome" doesn't work on me, when the whole point from the beginning was to kick me out of the Implementors Guild.  :)
16:29 ash_ all classes (without being explicit?) inherit from Any, right? but could you do class Foo is Mu ? and skip any?
16:30 TimToady sure, that's what Junctions do
16:30 jnthn TimToady: It wasn't specifically to you, more a "I'd appreciate it if someone != me could look at it" :-)
16:30 TimToady yeah, sure, ignore the pragmatics of "patches welcome"  :)
16:30 jnthn ;-)
16:30 TimToady reminds me of the *plonk* discussion
16:31 jnthn I...never quite understood that meme.
16:31 * PerlJam blames tchrist
16:31 ash_ anyone silly question, all objects have a HOW, but custom ones have a ClassHOW, is (for instance) Mu.HOW eqv Mu? and Str.HOW eqv Str?
16:31 TimToady that...could well be true...
16:32 PerlJam (only because I haven't heard from him in a long while and he was the king of *plonk*)
16:32 ash_ s/aynone/another/
16:32 TimToady there there are any number of good candidates for having invented *plonk*
16:33 PerlJam google probably knows :)
16:33 ash_ > say Str.HOW.WHAT;
16:33 ash_ Str()
16:33 TimToady that's just wrong
16:33 TimToady Str.HOW is a metaclass, and should say it's a type object
16:34 TimToady s/metaclass/metaclass instance/
16:34 jnthn Yeah, that does look a tad dubious...
16:34 TimToady grr
16:34 ash_ so... thats wrong?
16:34 TimToady s/should/shouldn't/
16:34 ash_ k
16:34 jnthn Probaly should say ClassHOW.
16:34 ash_ > say Str.HOW.blah;
16:34 ash_ Method 'blah' not found for invocant of class 'ClassHOW'
16:34 ash_ it does do that...
16:34 ash_ so its really a ClassHOW?
16:34 jnthn It is.
16:35 ash_ hm, k
16:35 jnthn I guess ClassHOW but define WHAT. :-/
16:35 TimToady rakudo: say ClassHOW.WHAT
16:35 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«ClassHOW()␤»
16:35 jnthn heh.
16:35 ash_ and all (probably all) Str's have the same instance of ClassHOW for WHAT?
16:35 jnthn Color me confused.
16:35 TimToady rakudo: say ClassHOW.HOW.fofof
16:35 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Method 'fofof' not found for invocant of class ''␤current instr.: '_block14' pc 29 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
16:35 jnthn Heh
16:35 ash_ rakudo: say Mu.HOW.WHAT;
16:35 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Mu()␤»
16:36 TimToady also wrong
16:36 jnthn rakudo: say ClassHOW.HOW.HOW
16:36 p6eval rakudo 534afd:  ( no output )
16:36 jnthn rakudo: say ClassHOW.HOW.HOW.WHAT
16:36 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«P6metaclass()␤»
16:36 ash_ rakudo: say Mu.HOW.HOW.HOW.WHAT;
16:36 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«P6metaclass()␤»
16:36 jnthn Heh. Now we've reached the guts. :-)
16:36 ash_ :p
16:37 payload1 joined #perl6
16:37 jnthn The answer to ClassHOW.HOW may well want to be implementation specific, though.
16:37 * ash_ is trying to figure out the guts, so i can put as little as possible of them in my nqp
16:38 masak yayiblogged! http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/40280
16:38 ash_ so... $a = Mu.HOW  ... later in the program ... $b = Mu.HOW; ($a eqv $b) eqv True?
16:38 * masak goes swimming
16:39 jnthn Woulda thought so.
16:39 ash_ kk, just checking
16:39 pausenclown rakudo: grammar G { rule TOP { <test(one)> }; rule one { 1 }; rule test($x) { $x }; }; say G.parse("1");
16:40 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«␤»
16:40 pausenclown rakudo: grammar G { rule TOP { <test(<one>)> }; rule one { 1 }; rule test($x) { $x }; }; say G.parse("1");
16:40 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«␤»
16:40 pausenclown mmh
16:41 TimToady class A { method f() { |%_ } }'
16:41 TimToady oops
16:41 pausenclown rakudo: grammar G { rule TOP { <test(<one>)> }; rule one { 1 }; rule test($x) { <x> }; }; say G.parse("1");
16:41 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Method 'x' not found for invocant of class 'G'␤current instr.: 'perl6;G;test' pc 1210 (EVAL_1:0)␤»
16:41 TimToady middle mouse button doesn't open a link in another irssi tab  :)
16:42 pausenclown rakudo: grammar G { rule TOP { <test(<one>)> }; rule one { 1 }; rule test($x) { <$x> }; }; say G.parse("1");
16:42 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Malformed regex at line 11, near "test($x) {"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
16:43 payload joined #perl6
16:43 pausenclown i think i've read somewhere about passing a rule to another rule.
16:45 TimToady std: grammar G { rule TOP { <test(<one>)> }; rule one { 1 }; rule test($x) { <$x> }; }; say G.parse("1");
16:45 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 110m␤»
16:46 pausenclown nooooooooooooo
16:46 pausenclown =)
16:46 TimToady mind you, <test('one')> would work as well, nothing magically assertive about <one> as an expression
16:46 mssm joined #perl6
16:46 PerlJam TimToady: I was going to ask about how that <one> was parsed
16:47 TimToady inside of () is normal Perl expression
16:47 pausenclown You mean '1' would work (as in matching successfully).
16:47 TimToady std: grammar G { rule TOP { <test(-e ** (-i * pi))> }; rule one { 1 }; rule test($x) { <$x> }; }; say G.parse("1");
16:48 p6eval std 30236:  ( no output )
16:48 PerlJam Hmm.  What do <0> and <1> mean in regex?
16:49 TimToady to do a symbolic call you might need <::($x)>
16:49 ignacio_ joined #perl6
16:49 TimToady otherwise it's going to compile into /0/ or /1/
16:49 TimToady <$x> is biased towards interpreting $x as regex
16:50 TimToady $x is biased towards literal string
16:50 TimToady but if $x contains a Regex, it's the same as <$x>
16:50 TimToady however, 'one' is not a regex
16:50 TimToady '&one' might be
16:51 TimToady er, just bare &one
16:53 pausenclown rakudo: grammar G { rule TOP { <test(<one>)> }; rule one { 1 }; rule test($x) { { say $x } }; }; say G.parse("1");
16:53 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«one␤␤»
16:53 diakopter joined #perl6
16:53 pausenclown rakudo: grammar G { rule TOP { <test(<one>)> }; rule one { 1 }; rule test($x) { { say $x.WHAT } }; }; say G.parse("1");
16:53 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Str()␤␤»
16:54 PerlJam I don't see a rule (pardon the pun) for a leading numeric char in S05
16:54 PerlJam (e.g. <1>)
16:54 TimToady std: /<1>/
16:54 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unrecognized regex assertion at /tmp/Hk8qH6a9nD line 1:␤------> [32m/<[33m⏏[31m1>/[0m␤    expecting any of:␤        assertion␤        name␤FAILED 00:01 106m␤»
16:54 TimToady there's your rule :)
16:54 PerlJam yeah, but I'm wondering if their might be some other use
16:54 diakopter std: /<<>>/
16:54 pausenclown rakudo: grammar G { rule TOP { <test(one)> }; rule one { 1 }; rule test($x) { { say $x.WHAT } }; }; say G.parse("1");
16:54 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
16:55 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«␤»
16:55 PerlJam <1> might be another way to write $1
16:55 * TimToady channels MJD
16:55 diakopter std: /<<<>>>/
16:55 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unrecognized regex assertion at /tmp/JCws7sBUEv line 1:␤------> [32m/<<<[33m⏏[31m>>>/[0m␤    expecting any of:␤     assertion␤        name␤FAILED 00:01 106m␤»
16:56 diakopter std: /<<<a>/
16:56 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
16:56 pausenclown rakudo: grammar G { rule TOP { <test(<one>)> }; rule one { 1 }; rule test($x) { { say $x.WHAT } }; }; say G.parse("1");
16:56 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Str()␤␤»
16:56 pausenclown shouldnt that say "Regex" or so?
16:57 TimToady no, I just said that <> was special around the one
16:57 TimToady wasn't
16:57 PerlJam the only "advantage" I can see to that might be when you're writing code like pausenclown is attempting
16:57 TimToady grr, my n't key is sticking again this morning...
16:57 diakopter std: /<< < a>/
16:57 PerlJam pausenclown: <> is being used as quote-words inside of the ()
16:57 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
16:58 TimToady PerlJam: thanks for being clear :)
16:58 diakopter std: /<< < /d/a>/
16:58 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
16:58 pausenclown so i dont pass a regex but its name and refer to that via <$x> which calls the regex
16:59 TimToady which *doesn't* call the regex
16:59 PerlJam heh
16:59 TimToady <$x> has no freaking clue that $x contains the name of a regex
16:59 PerlJam pausenclown: <@TimToady> to do a symbolic call you might need <::($x)>
17:00 pausenclown oh, i overread that. sry
17:00 TimToady std: <::($_)>
17:00 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 107m␤»
17:00 diakopter std: /<< < ///////////a>/
17:00 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
17:00 pausenclown rakudo: grammar G { rule TOP { <test(<one>)> }; rule one { 1 }; rule test($x) { <::($x)> }; }; say G.parse("1");
17:00 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Malformed regex at line 11, near "test($x) {"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
17:00 TimToady std: <."$x"()>
17:00 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 105m␤»
17:00 TimToady or...
17:01 TimToady std: my $x; /<."$x"()>/;
17:01 PerlJam diakopter: trying to trick the parser?
17:01 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 107m␤»
17:01 diakopter PerlJam: what else do I ever do
17:02 PerlJam std: /< ///////////)>/
17:02 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
17:02 PerlJam parser too smart
17:02 TimToady std: my $x; / { $¢ = $¢."$x"() } /; #same thing
17:02 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 107m␤»
17:02 pausenclown heh. nice.
17:02 diakopter std: / sub foo { 3 } /
17:02 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
17:03 Guest63559 joined #perl6
17:03 TimToady the diafuzzer is broken
17:07 pausenclown .oO( don't ask, your head will explode )
17:09 TimToady std: my $x; /<.[0]>/;
17:10 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 109m␤»
17:10 TimToady std: my $x; /<.++>/;
17:10 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
17:10 TimToady though I doubt $¢ will take kindly to being incremented
17:11 TimToady or to being subscript in the absence of a current $0
17:11 TimToady *ed
17:12 diakopter std: / die() /
17:13 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Null pattern not allowed at /tmp/jPZt8hlrOK line 1:␤------> [32m/ die([33m⏏[31m) /[0m␤FAILED 00:01 106m␤»
17:13 Chillance joined #perl6
17:13 PerlJam need more syntax to convert that into an actual call
17:14 PerlJam the parser is still not so easily fooled.
17:14 TimToady I suspect he knows that; he's just trying to get unhelpful error messages out of it.  :)
17:15 TimToady it should say, "Missing braces around Perl code" or some such...  :)
17:16 PerlJam that would make the parser preternaturally smart  ;)
17:16 TimToady "You aren't programming in the language you think you're programming in, dufus!"  --MJDish
17:17 TimToady "It's *you* that is confused at line 42"
17:17 PerlJam there should be a "use snark" option to Perl 6 that should make it actually say these things
17:18 TimToady it would actually be possible to make a parser that preternaturally smart with speculative parsing
17:20 TimToady but that only works if something actually goes wrong; it's even harder to catch the case where it parses right wrong, as in diakopter++'s first sub foo example
17:21 PerlJam TimToady: then it should go interactive ...   "Are you writing a parser in Perl 6?  (Y/n)"
17:21 TimToady in that case, the best it could do is report an ambiguity
17:21 TimToady or yes, ask that.  :)
17:22 TimToady however, the "Useless use of 3 in sink context" should eventually help there.
17:22 TimToady calculating side effects or lack thereof is on my short list of things to do next to STD
17:24 diakopter bwahaha
17:29 riffraff joined #perl6
17:32 jnthn TimToady: Ooh, does that mean we'll be able to steal sink context detection from STD? :-)
17:39 p6eval joined #perl6
17:42 diakopter ok, who bounced p6eval
17:45 diakopter oh.  server error.
17:46 diakopter irc server, that is.
17:46 diakopter whatevs
17:50 JimmyNeutron left #perl6
18:10 * moritz_ returns and finds a huge backlog
18:13 justatheory joined #perl6
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18:25 diakopter std: #`[/ . /␤a#`[a]]
18:25 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 104m␤»
18:25 diakopter std: #`[/ . /␤a#`[a]
18:25 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤(Possible runaway string from line 1)␤Couldn't find terminator ] at /tmp/aHgEdJgPSc line 2 (EOF):␤------> [32ma#`[a][33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤FAILED 00:01 103m␤»
18:25 diakopter std: #`[/ . /␤a#[a]
18:25 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤(Possible runaway string from line 1)␤Couldn't find terminator ] at /tmp/sFqzTGz3Zl line 2 (EOF):␤------> [32ma#[a][33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤FAILED 00:01 103m␤»
18:25 diakopter std: #`[/ . /␤a[a]
18:25 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤(Possible runaway string from line 1)␤Couldn't find terminator ] at /tmp/eFL9H1XHiP line 2 (EOF):␤------> [32ma[a][33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤FAILED 00:01 103m␤»
18:25 diakopter std: #`[/ . /␤a[]a]
18:25 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 104m␤»
18:25 diakopter std: #`[/ . /␤a[]]a]
18:25 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤(Possible runaway string from line 1)␤Confused at /tmp/yays4NAhyi line 2:␤------> [32ma[]]a[33m⏏[31m][0m␤    expecting any of:␤       argument list␤    statement modifier loop␤Undeclared routine:␤        'a' used at line 2␤FAILED 00:01 105m␤»
18:25 diakopter std: #`[/ . /␤#a[]]a]
18:25 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤(Possible runaway string from line 1)␤Confused at /tmp/9GoTvHjUpc line 2:␤------> [32m#a[]]a[33m⏏[31m][0m␤    expecting any of:␤      argument list␤    statement modifier loop␤Undeclared routine:␤        'a' used at line 2␤FAILED 00:01 105m␤»
18:26 was kicked by diakopter: CEILING CAT WILL FIND YOU
18:27 mberends diakopter++ # spectacular exits
18:27 phenny mberends: 15:10Z <moritz_> tell mberends that I made some small progress on the separate compilation of core files, but accidentally pushed it to branch split-setting (which seemed to be identical to split-gen-setting-2 branch...)
18:33 mberends thanks moritz_. The separate compilation will resume after proto gets into some kind of workable state. Right now that is beginning to get on with Win32/Strawberry Perl :)
18:34 clintongormley joined #perl6
18:35 moritz_ \o/
18:35 moritz_ anyway, all setting files now compile
18:35 mberends \o/ 2
18:36 moritz_ it was just a matter of telling the files that Whatever is a type
18:37 mberends its sounds so easy ...afterwards :)
18:38 moritz_ :-)
18:43 jnthn Yeah, whatever.
18:43 jnthn ;-)
18:43 jnthn mberends++ # win32 support!
18:44 mberends trying, anyway. (mingw32 isn't *really* win32) ;)
18:44 mberends the M$ toolchain deserves a look as well, for people using ActiveState instead of Strawberry
18:45 jnthn eww, minging!
18:45 jnthn I use ActiveState on this machine.
18:45 jnthn So I can try it there.
18:45 masak joined #perl6
18:46 mberends there is a kinda possibility of starting with just a single Perl 5 script called proto, that uses LWP and friends to download everything else.
18:46 masak oh hai, mberends :)
18:46 mberends masak: hi!
18:47 jnthn yaytismasak!
18:47 masak I noticed today that proto got an external CPAN dependecy :)
18:47 mberends external?
18:47 masak well, one that needs to be downloaded.
18:48 mberends actually I don't knwo what's external and what isn't
18:48 frettled good afterdusk
18:48 mberends hi frettled
18:48 masak File::Homedir, it was.
18:49 hercynium joined #perl6
18:49 masak I'm not saying we shouldn't depend on it. maybe that's what it takes to make Windows play nice with proto.
18:49 masak if so, I think it's worth it.
18:49 mberends masak: sorry about that, we can probably workaround
18:49 masak no worries.
18:49 masak I'm assuming there were reasons behind it :)
18:50 mberends it was for Windows portability
18:50 masak right. I guessed so.
18:50 masak the gradient we've backed down a bit along is the One Click Shopping gradient.
18:50 mberends heh
18:51 frettled one click vulnerability gradient!
18:52 mberends masak: we'll drop the File::HomeDir dependency, it's an unwelcome barrier
18:52 masak I'm not even arguing for that, but sure :P
18:53 masak we've backed down along it at other times, for what we considered to be good reasons.
18:53 mberends practicality is more important, and it's a trivial piece to substitute using environment variables
18:53 masak the 'oh hai I configured you, run me again to really get going' was one example. I really like that one.
18:54 masak mberends: yes. all CPAN dependencies can -- at least theoretically -- be removed by inlining. :)
18:54 masak not that that's always a good idea.
18:58 arnsholt If you want no external deps you could bundle it as well
18:58 masak oh, indeed.
18:58 masak mberends: your call.
18:58 moritz_ rakudo: return True if 1
18:58 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«No exception handler and no message␤current instr.: '&return' pc 17244 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:420)␤»
19:00 ShaneC joined #perl6
19:02 moritz_ rakudo: my $a; my @b; ($a, @b) = <1 2 3>; say @b.perl
19:02 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«[["2", "3"]]␤»
19:04 moritz_ rakudo: say 6 >== 2
19:04 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to readonly value␤current instr.: '&die' pc 17189 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:399)␤»
19:05 masak LTA.
19:05 molaf joined #perl6
19:05 masak std: 6 >== 2
19:05 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Can't make assignment out of >= because chaining operators are diffy at /tmp/tYk8vryGt4 line 1:␤------> [32m6 >==[33m⏏[31m 2[0m␤FAILED 00:01 108m␤»
19:05 jnthn std: 6 >== 2
19:05 p6eval std 30236: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Can't make assignment out of >= because chaining operators are diffy at /tmp/wODTcjnrYm line 1:␤------> [32m6 >==[33m⏏[31m 2[0m␤FAILED 00:01 106m␤»
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19:11 lichtkind moritz_: i will read it today again and write you
19:11 lichtkind mberends: hai
19:12 pyrimidine rakudo: my $a; my @b; ($a, @b) = <1 2 3>; say @b.perl
19:12 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«[["2", "3"]]␤»
19:12 mberends hi lichtkind, what was that wiki page you wanted me to review?
19:12 pyrimidine moritz_: is that correct?
19:12 moritz_ nope
19:12 moritz_ there's a ticket in RT for it
19:13 pyrimidine okay, that one bit me already, just making sure.
19:15 lichtkind mberends: in a moment i opened it currently
19:16 alester joined #perl6
19:23 lichtkind shouldnt o in Ordered endpoints be a small o?
19:25 pyrimidine left #perl6
19:27 lichtkind if yes then i found a typo in S02
19:28 eiro joined #perl6
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19:43 lichtkind mberends: http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
19:43 lichtkind mberends: tablet B is still open
19:43 mberends oki
19:43 lichtkind mberends: please tell me if your ready :9
19:46 tri1 joined #perl6
19:47 mberends lichtkind: if you mean proofread the *whole* index, I would prefer to do that in the train tomorrow morning, and continue developing proto this evening :)
19:47 lichtkind mberends: no just check the diff :)
19:47 lichtkind what changend in last 3,4 edits
19:48 mberends ok
19:49 lichtkind mberends: thanks but you dont have to :)
20:00 mberends lichtkind: so it's mainly BEGIN, CATCH, CHECK etc closure traits. They are all very clear. The linked closure traits list also looks very useful, short and sweet :)
20:01 lichtkind mberends: thanks but its all about control statements and regex modifier but it was mainly in german version :)
20:04 lichtkind mberends: its index , longer explanation you get in chapters :)
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20:05 molaf joined #perl6
20:05 mberends agreed, that's why this is good :)
20:10 molaf joined #perl6
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20:14 pmurias ruoso: ping
20:15 * pmurias has to stay in the channel long enough
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21:24 PerlJam *yawn*
21:25 jnthn PerlJam: I've felt like that all day. :-/
21:26 doublec left #perl6
21:27 PerlJam I've been feeling like that since Friday.   I spent all day Friday and half the day Saturday moving furniture and such.  Then I helped a friend with a BBQ for his mother until about 8:00pm.  And then I drove to Austin (about 3.5 hours).  I spent all day Sunday in a state of perpetual motion it seems and just now finished about half a day moving computer stuff from one building to another at work.
21:28 PerlJam I'm a little  wired from the exercise, but also a little tired.
21:29 mberends joined #perl6
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21:34 mberends hmm, Windows--   'C:\Documents' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
21:34 mberends operable program or batch file.
21:34 mberends Died at Configure.pl line 119.
21:35 arnsholt Well, C:\Documents isn't a comment =)
21:35 mberends sorry to share that, it just *had* to come out ;)
21:36 ash_ joined #perl6
21:36 * mberends copies and pastes lots of " inside strings
21:41 jnthn heh.
21:41 jnthn mberends: Yes, that one bites me now and then too.
21:42 jnthn PerlJam: That sounds exhausting.
21:46 mberends jnthn: if patching proto for "C:\Documents and Settings" breaks it on Unix/Linux, the blame goes indirectly to *you*
21:47 jnthn :-P
21:47 ash_ lol
21:47 ash_ as weird as it sounds, more people use windows than unix/linux... but do more perl 6 developers? :P
21:49 mberends more Rakudo newbies do, we must roll out the welcome mat. Brainwa^W helping them become more productive can happen later :P
21:50 m6locks i'm kinda hoping for a working windows edition of rakudo
21:50 m6locks right now, parrot won't work in this machine
21:50 m6locks dunno why
21:50 jnthn Odd, I run it fine on Windows.
21:50 jnthn What're you trying to build with?
21:51 m6locks i tried the precompiled binaries ;P
21:51 jnthn Ah
21:51 jnthn I've heard they work out for some people and not for others.
21:51 ash_ jnthn does work in visual studio, so he can help i am sure
21:51 jnthn Yeah. I build with the MS VC++ compiler.
21:52 m6locks aye
21:52 colomon what perl do you use?
21:52 m6locks how about parrot, you build it yourself too?
21:52 jnthn Had to patch things up for Win7 a couple of months back, but should be good there now too.
21:52 jnthn m6locks: Yeah, just --gen-parrot
21:52 jnthn colomon: Got the ActiveState one on this machine, have also had Strawberry, but I think there was some oddities there.
21:52 m6locks hmm ok
21:53 colomon guess I can try building it again and see what happens....
21:53 jnthn colomon: Since it's built with mingw and I was trying to build with the MS VC++ toolchain.
21:53 jnthn And Parrot's configure takes some info from the way Perl was configured.
21:55 ash_ yeah, that doesn't sound good, telling the ms vc++ a mingw compiler option
21:55 jnthn Right.
21:55 jnthn Thus the ActiveState Perl seems to work out better when building with that toolchain.
21:56 colomon okay, I've got active state and ms vc++ on 64-bit vista.  just got a fresh rakudo clone...
21:56 diakopter joined #perl6
21:56 ash_ can you build normal perl with ms vc++?
21:56 mberends jnthn: do you have download URLs for ms vc++ toolchain?
21:57 ash_ just wondering, more out of curiosity
21:57 jnthn ash_: I think so, not tried it.
21:57 envi^home joined #perl6
21:57 jnthn mberends: Not to hand, no, sorry.
21:58 lichtkind i have an perl 6 quastion :)
21:58 diakopter O__O
21:58 ash_ mberends: http://www.microsoft.com/express/downloads/ visual C++ 2008 express has the compiler in it
21:58 lichtkind diakopter: ?
21:58 colomon jnthn: perl Configure --gen-parrot just died.
21:59 mberends ash_: thanks, hoping to add that to proto as well :)
21:59 diakopter also the windows platform sdk has all the compilers without the gui, but it's a much bigger download, due to all the libs/headers
21:59 colomon 'parrot_install' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
21:59 colomon Died at Configure.pl line 119.
21:59 ash_ what the whole download? thats just silly, :P /sarcasm
22:00 diakopter lichtkind: I wasn't replying to you; I was just O__O
22:00 lichtkind ahh
22:00 jnthn colomon: Oh. :-/
22:00 lichtkind can i build in perl 6 a complex data structure and some other variable points deep into the structure?
22:00 jnthn colomon: Can you paste what you had up until there?
22:01 jnthn I'm kinda curious.
22:01 ash_ lichtkind: define complex data structure?
22:01 colomon jnthn: looks like Parrot didn't build, actually.
22:02 lisppaste3 colomon pasted "Parrot configure failure?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97043
22:02 lichtkind ash_: something like HoHoA
22:03 ash_ lichtkind: short answer, i don't see why not, long answer for a sane value of complex data structure you should be good, but i am sure there are edge cases that may be more difficult to build than others
22:03 jnthn colomon: Is cl in your path?
22:03 mberends lichtkind: to point deep into a structure, use := to bind another variable
22:03 jnthn colomon: Also try the Visual Studio Command Prompt shortbut.
22:03 jnthn er, cut
22:04 colomon jnthn: cl and devenv both work.
22:04 colomon from the command line, I mean.
22:04 nihiliad joined #perl6
22:04 ash_ lichtkind: you mean like my %a = { key => { array => [1, 2, 3] } }; say %a<key><array>[2]; # prints 3
22:05 ash_ rakudo: my %a = { key => { array => [1, 2, 3] } }; say %a<key><array>[2]; # prints 3
22:05 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«3␤»
22:05 diakopter jnthn: the dir of parrot's parrot_install is not in colomon's PATH ?
22:05 colomon jnthn: probably not in my default path, however, so maybe it could be spawning another shell that doesn't know about them?
22:05 lichtkind mberends: yes when the complex structure is build first, but in perl 5 you could compose a complex thing and include references of smaller var. haw you do thatt in perl 6 without references?
22:05 diakopter child shells inherit parent shell's env
22:06 lichtkind ash_: its deeper than that please see my post to mberends
22:06 TimToady it's not really true that Perl 6 doesn't have references; it's more like everything is a reference
22:06 ash_ rakudo: my %a; my $b = 5; %a<key> := 5; say %a<key>; $b = 6; say %a<key>;
22:06 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«:= binding of variables not yet implemented␤current instr.: '&die' pc 17189 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:399)␤»
22:06 lichtkind TimToady: yes but i cant use it as reference
22:07 colomon diakopter: that's a fine theory, but I'm not sure I'd want to count on it working in the hateful Windows Vista.
22:07 ash_ alpha: my %a; my $b = 5; %a<key> := 5; say %a<key>; $b = 6; say %a<key>;
22:07 p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«rtype not set␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
22:07 ash_ hmm
22:07 ash_ i think i have that right...
22:07 ash_ pugs: my %a; my $b = 5; %a<key> := 5; say %a<key>; $b = 6; say %a<key>;
22:07 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«5␤5␤»
22:07 ash_ oops
22:07 ash_ doh, stupid me
22:08 ash_ pugs: my %a; my $b = 5; %a<key> := $b; say %a<key>; $b = 6; say %a<key>;
22:08 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«5␤6␤»
22:08 ash_ lichtkind: you mean like that?
22:08 ash_ so %a<key> points to $b, so when you update $b it updates what %a<key> is pointing to
22:08 lichtkind ash_: exactly
22:09 ash_ (as an example), same principle applies to other variables and the := operator
22:09 diakopter colomon: I can't tell whether you're kidding.
22:09 payload joined #perl6
22:09 lichtkind ash_: but i would be even more happy doing that during composing the structure, because maybe i want to weave much more vars into it
22:10 jnthn diakopter: Well, given we aren't getting so far as having a parrot_config, that's not the issue here... :-)
22:10 jnthn colomon: OK...I only remember when I saw that one it was some path fail.
22:10 ash_ lichtkind: you can do that too, in theory, i don't know if its implemented yet though
22:10 jnthn diakopter: It doesn't need to be in the path with --gen-parrot too, fwiw.
22:10 lichtkind ash_: and how you do it in theory? .)
22:10 diakopter oh.
22:10 ash_ pugs: my $b = 5; my %a = { key => \$b }; say %a<key>; $b = 6; say %a<key>;
22:10 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«5␤5␤»
22:11 ash_ rakudo: my $b = 5; my %a = { key => \$b }; say %a<key>; $b = 6; say %a<key>;
22:11 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Capture()<0x2b128d102fa​0>␤Capture()<0x2b128d102fa0>␤»
22:11 ash_ alpha: my $b = 5; my %a = { key => \$b }; say %a<key>; $b = 6; say %a<key>;
22:11 colomon jnthn: I agree path fail seems likely, I just don't know how to explain it.
22:11 p6eval alpha 30e0ed:  ( no output )
22:11 diakopter ok; why would it try to run parrot_install if parrot didn't even succeed to build
22:12 ash_ \$b captures the variable, its similar in function to :=
22:12 colomon jnthn: It seems like this sort of nonsense is always happening in Vista, which is why I bought the MacBook Pro...
22:12 ash_ lichtkind: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S08.html talks about captures
22:13 lichtkind ash_: thank you very much but i do that later i just wanted solve that head problem, but im currently on immutable types
22:13 jnthn colomon: Ah, looking at my laptop (Win 7)...I was indeed always using the Visual Studio Command Prompt rather than just the standard one. I guess that must set us up the everything.
22:14 jnthn diakopter: Well, it's software, so it sucks.
22:14 jnthn diakopter: I guess either missing or failed check for success of the Parrot build though.
22:14 colomon jnthn: wait, there's a visual studio command prompt?  as in a shell?
22:14 jnthn colomon: It's the same shell but it runs a batch file that sets a bunch of environment up.
22:15 colomon jnthn: how do you get at it?
22:15 jnthn colomon: For me, it's in the programs menu; Visual Studio 2008 => Tools.
22:16 jnthn Ends up running vcvarsall.bat
22:16 colomon and gets the exact same error.  :(
22:16 ash_ is there a difference between := $a and \$a ? other than implementation details?
22:17 ash_ i am not sure what the difference is, if there is one
22:17 jnthn colomon: Aww. :-(
22:17 colomon Generating Parrot ...
22:17 colomon C:\Perl64\bin\perl.exe build/gen_parrot.pl --prefix=C:/tools/rakudo/parrot_install
22:17 colomon The system cannot find the path specified.
22:17 colomon Hadn't noticed that before, it seems to happen very early in the attempt to install parrot.
22:20 ash_ TimToady: is there a difference between := $a and \$a ? other than implementation details?
22:21 TimToady not really, they're both capturizers
22:22 TimToady except := usually uses up the capture immediately
22:22 ash_ got ya, they seemed kinda similar, just wanted to make sure i didn't explain things wrong to lichtkind
22:27 jnthn [OT-ish, though it's for Perl 6] If anyone's ever given a tech talk and had somebody interpreting into another language, and has any tips, please pm me. I've not done it before and any input on how to not epic fail it would be welcome. :-)
22:28 mberends jnthn: just. talk. really.
22:28 mberends jnthn: slowly.
22:30 jnthn mberends: That advice holds for both simultaneous and consecutive interpretation?
22:32 mberends jnthn: try to enable consecutive to occur, simultaneous is very lossy and requires more redundant repetition to avoid fail
22:33 mberends some repetition is good though, all listeners innocently stop listening occasionally
22:34 jnthn mberends: I've actually got one talk where I'm told it'll be simultaneous, and another where it'll be consecutive. :-)
22:35 mberends if you know several ways to state the same thing, use that to make the repetition less obvious/boring/insulting
22:35 jnthn I figure the consecutive way is kinda easier in that there's some feedback loop to the speaker.
22:35 jnthn If the interpreter is breaking out into a sweat, it's time to slow down. :-)
22:36 jnthn Anyway, yes, well-managed repetition is a nice tip.
22:36 mberends jnthn: I would suggest largely ignoring the simultaneous process, otherwise it may trip your delivery up
22:36 jnthn nod
22:39 snarkyboojum joined #perl6
22:42 lue hello! .oO(who doesn't love a high wind warning, with max. gusts expected at ~ 65 mph?)
22:43 colomon o/
22:47 pugssvn r30237 | lwall++ | [Cursor] new <suppose X> rule that traps all warnings and errors
22:47 pugssvn r30237 | [STD] use suppose in place of custom try blocks in 2-terms and unexpected infix checkers
22:47 pugssvn r30237 | [STD] use suppose to soften the warning about backtick-less embedded comments
22:47 pugssvn r30237 | [STD] de-dup warnings
22:48 ash_ lue: its time to pull out the old kite and see if the string is graded for 65 mph gusts
22:49 lue That's just the worst for the county, I checked in my city, and it's only ~ 41 (relative phew)
22:50 lue I created a simple RT search engine for Firefox, let me change it to search the public interface (it preserves login if you are logged in)
22:57 lue https://addons.mozilla.org/​en-US/firefox/addon/116888/ should make life easier for those who search the RT a lot :)
22:58 pausenclown joined #perl6
22:59 ash_ after an object has been created, would you ever need to call 'bless' again?
22:59 ash_ i am just wondering why its a method on all objects...
23:01 pausenclown rakudo: say [+] 1,2,3
23:01 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«6␤»
23:02 pausenclown rakudo: sub ff(@a) { say [+] @a }; ff(1,2,3);
23:02 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '@a'; expected Positional but got Int instead␤current instr.: 'ff' pc 182 (EVAL_1:77)␤»
23:03 pausenclown rakudo: sub ff(*@a) { say [+] @a }; ff(1,2,3);
23:03 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«6␤»
23:04 pausenclown rakudo: sub ff(*@a) { ( [+] @a ) / @a.elems }; ff(1,2,3);
23:04 p6eval rakudo 534afd:  ( no output )
23:04 pausenclown rakudo: sub ff(*@a) { ( [+] @a ) / @a.elems }; say ff(1,2,3);
23:04 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«2␤»
23:04 pausenclown rakudo: sub ∅(*@a) { ( [+] @a ) / @a.elems }; say ∅(1,2,3);
23:04 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "sub \u2205(*@a)"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
23:04 pausenclown rakudo: my $∅ = 1;
23:04 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Malformed my at line 11, near "$\u2205 = 1;"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
23:05 pausenclown std: my $∅ = 1;
23:05 p6eval std 30237: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Confused at /tmp/UOayfWotnB line 1:␤------> [32mmy $[33m⏏[31m∅ = 1;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤ POST␤   bracketed infix␤    infix or meta-infix␤      postfix␤        postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤       shape definition␤       statement modifier
23:05 p6eval ..loop␤    trait␤  twigil␤FAILED 00:01 …
23:05 ash_ invalid $
23:05 ash_ hmmm, wait no sorry
23:05 pausenclown i thought unicode names are supported
23:05 ash_ thats a weird error, must be something with unicode
23:05 ash_ rakudo: my $∑ = 5;
23:05 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Malformed my at line 11, near "$\u2211 = 5;"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
23:06 lue std: my $ĉ = 3;
23:06 p6eval std 30237: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
23:06 lue std: my $∅ = 3;
23:06 ash_ maybe its p6eval?
23:06 p6eval std 30237: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Confused at /tmp/QxHjkFrDbe line 1:␤------> [32mmy $[33m⏏[31m∅ = 3;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤ POST␤   bracketed infix␤    infix or meta-infix␤      postfix␤        postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤       shape definition␤       statement modifier
23:06 p6eval ..loop␤    trait␤  twigil␤FAILED 00:01 …
23:06 arnsholt If it's not alphanumeric, it's not a valid identifier I think
23:06 ash_ ah, good point
23:06 lue rakudo: my $ĉ=3;
23:06 p6eval rakudo 534afd:  ( no output )
23:06 arnsholt std: my $æøå = 1;
23:06 p6eval std 30237: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
23:07 arnsholt Yeah. Probably due to those characters not being alnums
23:07 lue no bug, as far as I can tell (unless the spec specifically says "unicode is allowed as variable names")
23:07 pausenclown too bad. no APL in Perl6.
23:07 arnsholt You could always define your own syntax though =D
23:08 lue rakudo: my $ĥoro = "good"; say "Mia ĥoro estas $ĥoro." # my choir is [variable]
23:08 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Mia ĥoro estas good.␤»
23:09 lue s/good/bona/ # i think
23:11 stepnem joined #perl6
23:12 ruoso joined #perl6
23:12 lue rakudo: grammar G { regex foo { (\d+) <?{ $0.chars > 4 }> '!'} }; say $_ ~~ /<G::foo>/ for '1234!', '123456!'
23:12 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«regex assertion not terminated by angle bracket at line 11, near "::foo>/ fo"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
23:13 pausenclown rakudo: multi sub postfix:<∅> (*@a) { ( [+] @a ) / @a.elems }; say (1,2,3) ∅;
23:13 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say (1,2,3"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
23:13 pausenclown rakudo: multi sub postfix:<∅> (*@a) { ( [+] @a ) / @a.elems };
23:13 p6eval rakudo 534afd:  ( no output )
23:14 arnsholt rakudo: multi sub postfix:<∅> (*@a) { ( [+] @a ) / @a.elems }; say((1,2,3) ∅);
23:14 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 11␤current instr.: 'perl6;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 1664 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/Regex-s0.pir:907)␤»
23:14 pausenclown multi sub postfix:<!>(Int $n) { [*] 1..$n; }; say 3!;
23:15 pausenclown rakudo: multi sub postfix:<!>(Int $n) { [*] 1..$n; }; say 3!;
23:15 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«6␤»
23:15 TimToady a postfix may not have whitespace before it
23:15 pausenclown rakudo: multi sub postfix:<∅> (*@a) { ( [+] @a ) / @a.elems }; say (1,2,3)∅;
23:15 arnsholt Aha. That explains it
23:15 pausenclown heh, i broke the bot.
23:16 lue The brot boke itself (wait...)
23:16 p6eval rakudo 534afd:  ( no output )
23:16 ash_ it times out eventually
23:16 ash_ then you normally get the " ( no output ) "
23:16 arnsholt > multi sub postfix:<∅> (*@a) { ( [+] @a ) / @a.elems }; say (1,2,3)∅;
23:16 arnsholt 2
23:17 arnsholt On a couple of days old copy of Rakudo. So it should work =)
23:17 pausenclown rakudo: multi sub prefix:<∅> (*@a) { ( [+] @a ) / @a.elems }; say ∅(1,2,3);
23:18 lue that is the once-there-never-gone way of thinking. It doesn't work here :)
23:18 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«2␤»
23:18 pausenclown how to omit the parens?
23:18 pausenclown rakudo: multi sub prefix:<∅> (*@a) { ( [+] @a ) / @a.elems }; say ∅ 1,2,3;
23:19 p6eval rakudo 534afd:  ( no output )
23:19 lue rakudo: multi sub prefix:<∅> (*@a) { ( [+] @a ) / @a.elems }; say ∅1,2,3
23:20 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«123␤»
23:20 pausenclown also: ugly
23:20 pausenclown std: multi sub prefix:<∅> (*@a) { ( [+] @a ) / @a.elems }; say ∅ 1,2,3;
23:21 p6eval std 30237: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 111m␤»
23:21 lue rakudo: multi sub prefix:<∅> (*@a) { ( [+] @a ) / @a.elems }; my @a=1,2,3; say ∅@a
23:21 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«2␤»
23:22 pausenclown anyway. conclusion is: APL in Perl6 is possible.
23:22 lue of course it is! According to God, Lisp was hacked together with Perl! [see xkcd]
23:23 pausenclown According to Larry, that's just a rumour =)
23:23 pausenclown ( just kidding )
23:25 lue The Perl of Great Price :)
23:27 pausenclown but how do you import such a language enhancement?
23:27 pausenclown i think i need to read up the sub export mechanism.
23:28 Helios joined #perl6
23:32 pausenclown rakudo: say 3!3
23:32 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say 3!3"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
23:32 pausenclown rakudo: say 3 ! 3
23:32 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "say 3 ! 3"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
23:32 pausenclown rakudo: say ! 3
23:32 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«0␤»
23:37 lue rakudo: multi sub infix:<!jnthn!> ($a,$b) { say $a**$b;}; 3!jnthn!2 # should say 9
23:37 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "3!jnthn!2 "␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
23:38 lue rakudo: multi sub infix:<!jnthn!> ($a,$b) { say $a**$b;}; 3 !jnthn! 2 # should say 9
23:38 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«9␤»
23:38 jnthn rakudo: multi sub infix:<!jnthn!> ($a,$b) { say $a**$b;}; my $a = 3; $a !jnthn!= 2; say $a;
23:39 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤current instr.: '!assign_metaop' pc 17030 (src/builtins/Junction.pir:319)␤»
23:39 jnthn Aww!
23:39 jnthn rakudo: our multi sub infix:<!jnthn!> ($a,$b) { say $a**$b;}; my $a = 3; $a !jnthn!= 2; say $a;
23:39 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«9␤1␤»
23:39 jnthn Grr.
23:40 ascent_ joined #perl6
23:41 pausenclown rakudo: multi sub Int foo { 1 }; multi sub Str foo ( 'one' ); var Str $s = foo; say $s
23:41 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Malformed multi at line 11, near "sub Int fo"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
23:42 pausenclown rakudo: multi sub Int foo() { 1 }; multi sub Str foo() ( 'one' ); var Str $s = foo; say $s
23:42 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Malformed multi at line 11, near "sub Int fo"␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
23:42 pausenclown huh?
23:42 pausenclown rakudo: sub Int x { 1 }
23:42 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Symbol '$ss_SS_S_S__S_S_s' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'perl6;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 152 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:108)␤»
23:43 pausenclown std: sub Int x { 1 }
23:43 p6eval std 30237: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Malformed block at /tmp/oBQadhrU7f line 1:␤------> [32msub Int [33m⏏[31mx { 1 }[0m␤    expecting any of:␤   block␤  routine_def␤        trait␤FAILED 00:01 107m␤»
23:44 lue jnthn: hai!
23:44 TimToady you can't put a type there
23:44 jnthn Try our Int sub x() { }
23:44 jnthn or sub x() returns Int { }
23:44 jnthn or...there's a third...
23:44 jnthn <brain whirring>
23:44 jnthn oh
23:44 jnthn sub x(--> Int) { }
23:44 TimToady std: sub x (--> Int) { 1 }
23:44 p6eval std 30237: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 106m␤»
23:45 pausenclown rakudo: Int multi sub foo() { 1 }; Str multi sub foo() ( 'one' ); var Str $s = foo; say $s
23:45 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Confused at line 11, near "Int multi "␤current instr.: 'perl6;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 500 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:328)␤»
23:45 lue std: Int multi sub foo() { 1 }
23:45 p6eval std 30237: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/8yaKQ4wnzv line 1:␤------> [32mInt [33m⏏[31mmulti sub foo() { 1 }[0m␤    expecting any of:␤      bracketed infix␤  infix or meta-infix␤      statement modifier loop␤FAILED 00:01 107m␤»
23:45 jnthn TimToady: regex Foo { lolz }; # Currently in Rakudo, gives the "can only add a regex to a grammar" error.
23:45 jnthn TimToady: IIUC...
23:45 lue only the "third" one works
23:46 jnthn ...it shouldn't be an error, just a warning?
23:46 jnthn And it's supprssed by doing our or my before it? our regex ..., my regex ...?
23:46 * jnthn notices this is getting in the way a lot and should probably try and fix it tomorrow.
23:47 pausenclown so i cannot have a multi which dispatches taking the return type.
23:48 jnthn Sure you can.
23:49 lue I'm not a C/C++ guy (yet), so I must ask what the use of something like Int sub [etc.] is.
23:49 jnthn The type-first syntax just always needs a scope declarator first.
23:49 pausenclown rakudo: multi sub foo() { --> Int }; Str multi sub foo( --> Str ) ( 'one' ); var Str $s = foo; say $s
23:49 jnthn var? :-)
23:50 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 11␤current instr.: 'perl6;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 1664 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/Regex-s0.pir:907)␤»
23:50 lue (p6eval is intermittently efficient it seems)
23:50 jnthn pausenclown: You need my Str multi foo etc
23:50 jnthn pausenclown: Putting the Str out fornt and inside may be an error though...
23:50 pausenclown typo
23:51 pausenclown sorry
23:51 jnthn No worries. :-)
23:51 TimToady std: my Str sub x (--> Int) {...}
23:51 pausenclown rakudo: multi sub foo() { --> Int }; multi sub foo( --> Str ) { 'one' }; var Str $s = foo; say $s
23:52 TimToady jnthn: yes, any method should warn if 'has' can't install a ref into a metaobject
23:52 TimToady pausenclown: we don't dispatch on return type
23:53 pausenclown ah too bad. but wouldnt it be neat?
23:53 TimToady no, not in a language where context is lazy
23:53 p6eval std 30237:  ( no output )
23:53 p6eval rakudo 534afd: OUTPUT«Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 11␤current instr.: 'perl6;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 1664 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/Regex-s0.pir:907)␤»
23:53 jnthn pausenclown: YOu run into problems pretty quick. Consider foo(bar()) where foo is a multi and bar is expected to dispatch on expected return type.
23:54 jnthn TimToady: OK, so people who wrote a plain "regex foo" should expect to have to add a scope declarator?
23:54 TimToady std: my Str sub x () returns Int {...}
23:54 pausenclown true
23:54 p6eval std 30237: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Extra 'of' type; already declared as type Str at /tmp/XpwOdWt1Bg line 1:␤------> [32mmy Str sub x () returns Int [33m⏏[31m{...}[0m␤FAILED 00:01 107m␤»
23:54 TimToady jnthn: correct
23:54 jnthn TimToady: Thanks.
23:55 jnthn Will try and deal with that tomorrow. Seems to be blocking masak++.

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