Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-06-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 azert0x hum, or have a nice day :-s
00:06 yinyin joined #perl6
00:12 thisisnick joined #perl6
00:12 radiation perl is built into Ubuntu right?
00:46 dalek rakudo: 5219aa5 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/ (4 files):
00:46 dalek rakudo: Move Int.Bool to Real.Bool, tweak definition of Rat.Bool, remove Num.Bool.
00:46 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5​219aa5d8f2ae52407122719f05c4f19a6bf3357
00:49 colomon raduko: say 4.Num div 3.Num
00:49 colomon rakudo: say 4.Num div 3.Num
00:49 p6eval rakudo 359dbd:  ( no output )
01:00 colomon rakudo: say 4 % 2.5
01:00 p6eval rakudo 359dbd:  ( no output )
01:01 * jnthn hacks on a little Rakudo fix before sleep
01:02 jnthn rakudo: my (Int $x, Num $y); say $x; say $y;
01:02 p6eval rakudo 359dbd:  ( no output )
01:02 jnthn rakudo: grr, you're broken
01:02 p6eval rakudo 359dbd:  ( no output )
01:04 colomon spec's a little broken, too.
01:04 jnthn colomon: spec or spectest? :-)
01:05 colomon (looking at div, %, and mod)
01:05 colomon spec
01:05 jnthn Patch away! ;-)
01:05 jnthn > my (Int $x, Num $y); say $x; say $y;
01:05 jnthn Any()
01:05 jnthn Any()
01:05 jnthn tssk...fejl.
01:05 colomon only trouble is knowing what the right thing to do is.  :)
01:06 colomon jnthn: here's the deal, if you don't mind me talking it through with you.
01:06 jnthn Sure, I'm oddly awake given it's 3am, so I'll maybe even follow. :-)
01:07 colomon % is defined as $x % $y == $x - floor($x / $y) * $y
01:07 colomon that's for all Real types.
01:07 colomon and that makes sense, IMO.
01:08 colomon mod is defined as $x mod $y == $x - ($x div $y) * $y
01:08 colomon mod is supposed to fail if the types of $x and $y are different.
01:09 colomon div is generic division, also supposed to fail if the types are different.
01:09 jnthn OK.
01:09 jnthn "types are different" ==> the types have to be the exact same thing?
01:10 colomon "Not coercive, so fails on differing types."
01:10 jnthn e.g. an Int and an Int is fine, a Rat and a Rat is fine, but a Real and a Real is not?
01:10 jnthn er
01:10 colomon jnthn: that would be my understanding.
01:10 jnthn Two things that satisfy Real I mean
01:10 jnthn OK
01:10 eternaleye What if the second arg is a subclass of the first arg's class?
01:11 eternaleye ::T, T would match, but potentially be incorrect for that case
01:11 colomon (though that seems a little daft... I mean, it could always just dispatch to / or % if the types differ)
01:11 jnthn eternaleye: Yes, that's not quite tight enough.
01:11 jnthn You'd want something like
01:11 colomon anyway, here's the weird bit.
01:11 jnthn :(::T1 $a, ::T2 $b where { T1 === T2 })
01:12 colomon for integer types, $x div $y == floor($x/$y);
01:13 jnthn Aye, so for integer types div works out just as % would, essentially?
01:13 colomon so for integer types, the definitions for mod and % are the same, just mod guarantees the resulting type is the same as the input type.
01:13 jnthn er, mod, yes.
01:13 colomon yes.
01:13 eternaleye jnthn: Would omitting :: on the second T and using .WHAT in the where potentially be more efficient, due to only running the where in the case where it's a subclass or equal?
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01:13 jnthn eternaleye: No, it'd be less efficient under the current implementation.
01:13 eternaleye Huh
01:14 colomon what strikes me as weird is that, as I understand it, for non-integer types, div is the same as /
01:14 jnthn eternaleye: Oh, sorry, I mis-read
01:14 * jnthn reads again
01:14 eternaleye :(::T $a, T $b where { $b.WHAT === T })
01:14 jnthn Ah, OK
01:15 colomon but in that case, for non-integer types, mod always returns 0.
01:15 jnthn But there you're specifying *two* constraints on $b
01:15 jnthn That it has to be T, and that it has to match the thingy afterwards.
01:15 jnthn In the long run, the second would be more optimizable.
01:16 jnthn At the moment, you end up running two checks rather than just one.
01:16 eternaleye Hm, true. It all comes down to the probability of the where clause being run
01:16 jnthn colomon: Hmm.
01:17 jnthn colomon: But div also enforces same type too?
01:17 eternaleye One thing that might be nice would be some sugar for 'subclasses not allowed' .oO( :( ::T $a, T! $b ) ? )
01:17 jnthn Of course, so did mod...
01:18 jnthn eternaleye: I'm sure that in an ideal Perl 6, that'd be possible in a module. :-)
01:18 colomon div and mod enforce the same type, yes.
01:19 jnthn colomon: So IIUC, the upshot is that essentially div and mod end up being constrainty rather than coercy versions of / and %?
01:19 colomon jnthn: I think that's the idea.
01:20 jnthn colomon: Is that...actually useful? :-)
01:20 colomon but my complaint is that (as I understand the definition of div), mod is useless for non-integer types.
01:21 colomon jnthn: I have no idea if constrainty versions are useful.
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01:22 colomon Going backwards --- div on Ints returns an Int instead of a Rat.
01:22 colomon that makes sense.
01:22 jnthn OK, and makes it useful.
01:23 jnthn Since it gives you a distinct result from /
01:26 jnthn So it seems that at least for div it's more useful than "this just constrains"
01:26 colomon right, I'm cool with that.
01:26 colomon it's mod that's got me shaking my head.
01:26 jnthn Yeah
01:27 jnthn I can see the problem, but I'm not sure what a fix would be.
01:27 colomon me neither.
01:28 jnthn Int $limit = * # parameter declaration FAIL
01:28 jnthn (because * !~~ Int)
01:28 jnthn Just fixed the bug where we didn't check these and...I get spectest fails due to a few bits of sloppiness. :-)
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02:05 lisen @arnsholt
02:07 lisen what  is  this
02:08 lisen some  people  do?
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02:12 jnthn Hmm...still a couple of fails. I'll finish up the patch after sleep. o/
02:14 colomon \o
02:14 colomon sleep soon here, too, but I'm trying to get out a blog post first.
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02:24 colomon loliblogged: http://justrakudoit.wordpress.​com/2010/06/07/real-operators/
02:26 dalek rakudo: a1193fe | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
02:26 dalek rakudo: Generic version of infix:<%> for Real, and change the generic infix:<%> to
02:26 dalek rakudo: change to Numeric and redispatch to infix:<%> again.
02:26 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a​1193feb206f966c2d13f50fab5cc0b5eb400d30
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03:13 lue hai
03:15 lue Are there any LHFs I might be interested in? [even ones I might not be :)]
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05:10 eternaleye lue: Well, http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Pub​lic/Search/Simple.html?q=[LHF] has some (go for the ones with 'open' status)
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05:16 lue thank you
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05:46 lue afk
05:51 [Coke] 4
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07:27 sorear what happened to pugssvn?
07:44 moritz_ good question; I'll investigate
07:46 moritz_ feather3 shows me the motd, but doesn't give me a shell
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07:50 pugssvn joined #perl6
07:50 pugssvn r31151 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]:  Fudge a new test in S12-class/basic.t (RT #65022)
07:50 pugssvn r31152 | pmichaud++ | [t/spec]:  Fudge a new test in S02-builtin_data_types/hash.t
07:50 pugssvn r31153 | sorear++ | [viv] Explicitly use Encode in output.  This ensures that the prototype of Encode::encode_utf8 is visible at BEGIN time, which was previously guaranteed by using Cursor, but broke after the Cursor split.
07:50 pugssvn r31154 | pmurias++ | [mildew] dumping an array of object
07:50 pugssvn r31154 | (for example the contents of registers) works
07:50 pugssvn r31155 | masak++ | [S32-str/encode.t] refudged
07:50 pugssvn r31156 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Add Real tests for .Bool, infix:<+>, infix<*>, and infix</>.
07:50 pugssvn r31157 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Tests for infix:<%>.
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07:52 moritz_ rakudo: try { exit 0 }; say "alive"
07:53 p6eval rakudo a1193f:  ( no output )
07:53 moritz_ rakudo: try { exit }; say "alive"
07:53 p6eval rakudo a1193f:  ( no output )
07:53 moritz_ \o/
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08:05 moritz_ http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/cbeye/per​l_6_which_gui_toolkit_do_you_most_want_to_see/
08:07 Su-Shee ah. so the short answer is "all of them, as usal" ;)
08:08 moritz_ :-)
08:10 Su-Shee my choice is a new, native one based on clutter/cairo xul and css based. ;)
08:10 mathw well you can write that
08:10 mathw I'll stick to using GIR to generate GTK+ bindings
08:12 Su-Shee noone for the poor qt folks? ;)
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08:17 mathw I don't use Qt
08:17 mathw I'm sure someone will want it though
08:17 moritz_ Qt used to be GPL-only unless you pay
08:17 moritz_ is that still the case?
08:18 mathw no
08:18 mathw that hasn't been the case for a long time
08:19 Su-Shee no, they changed that in the last century. ;)
08:22 moritz_ I'm *so* 19ths :-)
08:22 moritz_ yesterday I've learned that I'm a "digital native"
08:22 moritz_ as opposed to those born before 1980, who are called "digital imigrant"
08:23 moritz_ of course it makes sense to have such a hard, arbitrary boundary </sarcasm>
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08:25 Su-Shee then don't read social science on twitter level. ;)
08:26 moritz_ :-)
08:28 pugssvn r31158 | moritz++ | [t/spec] small unfudges for rakudo
08:29 sorear moritz_: it's a good thing rakudo can ALREADY do Tk!
08:30 moritz_ sorear: aye
08:30 Su-Shee *shiver*
08:31 moritz_ it seems that wxwidgets already acts as an abstraction layer for GUI toolkits
08:31 moritz_ so when you interface wxwidgets, you already have gtk support too
08:32 Su-Shee yes. and another bad looking, clunky gui application giving "GUI" a bad name. ;)
08:33 moritz_ what makes wxwidgets bad looking?
08:33 moritz_ I mean more than the usual GUI toolkit :-)
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08:35 Su-Shee moritz_: it's supposedly "native" looking to either the OS or the toolkit binding, but it's usally slightly off. it's not really nice to code and doesn't support actually thriving for a really good gui.
08:38 moritz_ so, why is it less awesome than DBI for databases?
08:38 moritz_ is it because the APIs are too different in structure?
08:39 Su-Shee err.. well that's not just comparing apples to pears but apples to .. steaks :)
08:39 moritz_ well, both can be tasty
08:39 mathw GUI toolkits don't seem to deal with abstraction layers very well
08:39 mathw they've all got their particular things
08:39 Su-Shee a good gui is usally more than an abstraction in the visuals of a button or a menu.
08:40 mathw and to make a GUI look good, you usually need full access to the core library
08:40 Su-Shee exactly.
08:40 mathw also because different platforms and toolkits have different UI guidelines and different things work well
08:40 mathw and their widgets never precisely map in capabilities or behaviour
08:41 Su-Shee also, there's at least two schools of "GUI" - being _extremely_ flexible and able to tweak down to the last pixel or "trying to be standarized"
08:41 mathw I like standardised to a certain extent
08:41 mathw but sometimes a good specialist UI is better
08:42 Su-Shee indeed. also, the standarized tks got old over the last 5-8 years. and not in a good way. features are missing which web nowadays can do. and that's bad.
08:43 Su-Shee not to mention that programming GUI is complex and requires much work.
08:43 moritz_ that I know :-)
08:44 Su-Shee and you really _need_ a widget set either being _very_ good or - if not - then very flexible so you can do your own stuff.
08:44 moritz_ well, I think with Perl 6 we're still in the "embrace" phase from "embrace and extend"
08:44 Su-Shee also there seem to be only a handful of variations how widget sets are used (programming-wise).
08:45 Su-Shee ok and then there is X ;)
08:47 mathw I don't think we're going to revolutionise GUI programming any time soon
08:47 mathw Let's deal with the underlying language first :)
08:47 Su-Shee and your audience is extremely ungrateful. ;) everybody wants a really good gui, smooth to use, fast, not too shiny and not too shabby, extremely flexible but also totally simple.. ;)
08:47 mathw although of course GUI programming with Perl 6 will be joyful
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08:49 moritz_ I fear that writing a GUI toolkit wrapper isn't -Ofun (except when you can automate most of it)
08:49 mathw that's why I want to do GTK+ using GIR
08:49 mathw although there's still unfun stuff
08:49 mathw you have to deal with memory issues
08:49 mathw but first we need NCI sorting out
08:50 mathw so I'm not starting now :)
08:50 Su-Shee and with every other implementation of perl 6 using something else underneath you have to probably do it all over again ;)
08:54 moritz_ that's some I'll worry about when we actually have competing implementations
08:58 mathw yes
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09:03 masak oh hai, #perl6!
09:03 moritz_ oh hai, masak
09:04 moritz_ http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=449 has been a joyful read
09:04 * masak reads
09:04 moritz_ "Indeed, many of the conjectures (or, in physics lingo, “results”) in this area that the physicists derived using their hocus-pocus methods, were later rigorously confirmed by the mathematicians"
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09:09 moritz_ it's true; many papers in physics rely on hairy asumptions, so it's a small miracle that not more of them turn out to be outright wrong later on
09:12 masak we have a similar division in the computer world between people who use algorithms/heuristics which haven't been proven efficient, and those who spend their time proving algorithms efficient.
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09:13 masak or any other property besides efficiency. correctness, even.
09:13 moritz_ aye
09:13 moritz_ sadly most programming time isn't about algorithms
09:14 masak true.
09:16 moritz_ if you're good, most programming time is about organizing data; if you're bad, it's about (mis)understanding language and library features, and suffering from not properly organizing the data
09:17 moritz_ at least that's my impression from following perlmonks
09:17 masak I still think about the von Neumann bottleneck sometimes. whether it's real, whether we've overcome it in some concrete sense, or whether we will.
09:20 moritz_ from my limited experience I'd say it's real, and it's somewhat lessened by various cache tricks
09:21 moritz_ actually that's wrong; I've seen lots of cases where I thought that fetching memory is the bottleneck
09:21 moritz_ but I've never really seen a proof for that
09:24 masak I find caching deeply interesting. a friend of mine works with such things.
09:25 Su-Shee if gui is involved,most programming time (about 40%) is about the gui. :/
09:25 Gothmog_ moritz_: Try valgrind/callgrind/kcachegrind, if you're in doubt.
09:27 _jaldhar joined #perl6
09:29 moritz_ Gothmog_: I will, at some point; I've tried, but haven't really understood what those tools told me (except valgrind, which I found exceptionally useful for finding memory leaks and corruptions)
09:31 jnthn morning, #perl6
09:34 masak morning, jnthn! \o/
09:35 Gothmog_ moritz_: Use valgrind --tool=callgrind for collecting the data and kcachegrind to view it & enjoy fancy graphs ;-)
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09:35 moritz_ fancy, yes. But what do they mean?
09:38 moritz_ my screensaver also produces fancy graphs, if I configure it appropriately :-)
09:38 Gothmog_ I cannot answer that, as there are different ones. :)
09:39 moritz_ I likely need to invest more time
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09:56 masak it's amazing how archaic some of the build solutions are in some of the older Perl 6 projects.
09:57 * masak cleans out html-template
09:57 moritz_ like, json was until yesterday
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09:57 masak oh? json got updated?
09:58 moritz_ yes, I removed the Configure script
09:58 masak excellent! the Makefile.in is still there, though.
09:58 moritz_ oh
09:58 moritz_ needs removing too, I guess
09:59 masak moritz_: have you tried ufo on the repo?
09:59 moritz_ what is ufo?
09:59 jnthn What's the current best practice for this? Do we document it anywhere?
09:59 jnthn er, I mean, Well Thought Out Practice ;)
09:59 cosimo masak: does the Digest.pm you have in november repo work with current rakudo? I can't get it to work...
09:59 masak moritz_: wow! you removed it independently of ufo? :)
09:59 masak moritz_: http://github.com/masak/ufo
10:00 masak cosimo: current Rakudo? no.
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10:00 masak cosimo: November still runs on alpha, and nothing else.
10:00 cosimo masak: thanks,
10:01 masak jnthn: actually I envisioned WTOP to do some of what ufo now does.
10:01 jnthn masak: There's something vaguely amusing in a UFO providing a WTOP. :-)
10:02 masak jnthn: sometimes one needs influences from outside to get going :P
10:03 arnsholt masak: Is "forinsecal" intentional?
10:04 masak arnsholt: I had to look long and hard for a fitting word. so yes, it's intentional.
10:04 masak it means 'alien'.
10:04 moritz_ masak++ # VERY nice README
10:04 arnsholt Oh, right =D
10:04 moritz_ masak: you should blog that, at some point
10:04 masak moritz_: thanks :) I probably should.
10:04 jnthn Wow, it actually is a word...
10:07 moritz_ masak: I'd like to change ufo's first line to #!/usr/bin/env perl6
10:07 moritz_ masak: so that it picks up the first perl6 in $PATH
10:07 moritz_ instead of the one in /usr/local/bin, which doesn't exist on my machine
10:09 moritz_ any objects? what's your preferred way of patching?
10:09 moritz_ *objections
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10:24 moritz_ rakudo: say { :one-and-some{1}, :almost-pie(3.3) }.WHAT
10:24 p6eval rakudo a1193f:  ( no output )
10:24 jnthn rakudo: broken?
10:24 p6eval rakudo a1193f:  ( no output )
10:25 jnthn :(
10:30 colomon morning, all
10:30 colomon is there any reason we should define infix:<div> for non-integer types?
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11:16 masak moritz_: you now have commit rights to ufo.
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11:18 masak moritz_: not only the shebang line of the 'ufo' script would need to be changed, but also the location of the PERL6 binary.
11:19 masak moritz_: I've been thinking of putting in a command-line option to enable Makefiles to be created with 'alpha' as the binary. maybe I should generalize that to accepting an arbitrary path for which perl6 binary to use in the make process.
11:23 jnthn masak: General flag sounds useful. Encouraging people to keep using alpha less so. :-)
11:23 moritz_ masak: PERL6=perl6 is the current state, and works here
11:24 masak moritz_: oh, good.
11:24 masak so maybe --use-alpha is enough, and then we can deprecate it.
11:25 moritz_ commit pushed to ufo
11:26 masak moritz_++
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11:36 masak mathw: ping!
11:37 moritz_ masak: you can remove json from the 'Repositories that still use human technology
11:37 moritz_ ' list
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11:37 masak already did that.
11:37 moritz_ oh :-)
11:37 masak http://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/194​23bcdc5107cf65b939ecac832bfb7ce0ea409
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11:40 masak ok, so there's this person 'ank' who doesn't particularly like Perl 6. he replies to me on Twitter sometimes with comments mainly intended to hurt. yesterday he wrote in an old comment thread on one of my blog posts: http://use.perl.org/comments​.pl?sid=44783&amp;cid=72022
11:41 masak I have many things I could reply to that, but I don't think it's a good idea for me to write to the guy at all. it'll only make me sad, long term. if someone else wants to reply to him, feel free.
11:42 masak just don't waste the whole day on him.
11:42 moritz_ masak: ignore it
11:42 ruoso bom dia #perl6
11:42 moritz_ doesn't make sense to reply to personal attacks from strangers on the internet
11:42 masak moritz_: indeed. I am ignoring him.
11:43 masak but I'm kinda flattered to be counted in a group of three along with TimToady and chromatic. :)
11:43 masak also a bit flattered that he apparently reads my blog posts and their comment threads.
11:43 colomon Wait, I get to be one of masak's homies?!  Awesome!
11:44 masak :P
11:44 colomon I love how he says "won't acknowledge it."  Well, no, it's directly contrary to one of the core Perl 6 design ideas.
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11:44 moritz_ it's actually contrary to perl 5 design ideas too
11:44 moritz_ but perl 5 wasn't quite as consequent as Perl 6 is (hopefully :-)
11:44 masak the author of the comment also authored http://www.ank.com.ar/jade7/ -- a joke which ends up being mostly tasteless and immature.
11:45 moritz_ he seems to invest quite some energy
11:46 moritz_ unlike the traditional troll
11:46 masak yes. apparently he doesn't feel he's getting through to TimToady, so he chooses other ways to express himself.
11:49 sbp don't feed the...
11:50 masak right. that's why I'm letting off a little steam by discussing him here.
11:50 masak I'm still getting used to being the target of troll attacks. :)
11:50 sbp :-)
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11:53 moritz_ masak: comes with your new fame
11:53 colomon Actually, the funny thing about the comment is how he tries to sneak "well-defined" in there.
11:54 masak in Moscow, I heard the phrase 'the famous masak". I replied that they must be mistaken, and that I'm not famous, just loud.
11:54 colomon I mean, I'd argue that p6's operators are well-defined precisely because there are so many of them.
11:54 colomon there's a difference between being famous and being loud?  ;)
11:54 moritz_ masak: famous = loud + somebody hears you being loud
11:55 masak moritz_: :)
11:55 moritz_ traditionally people got famous by other people talking about them
11:55 masak moritz_: people are most likely thinking of you when they hear my name. :)
11:55 moritz_ with the internet it's possible to be famous by talking, and having readers
11:55 colomon moritz_: ooo, good point.  loud + no one cares is pretty much just a pathetic troll.  ;)
11:56 moritz_ masak: why should they?
11:56 masak "masak? isn't that the guy with the p5->p6 blog posts? he's awesome!"
11:56 moritz_ :/
11:56 masak "I heard he wrote that nifty JSON::Tiny module"
11:56 moritz_ masak: did people actually say it, or are you making that up now?
11:56 jnthn operators are like...prepositions?!
11:57 masak moritz_: I'm making that up now.
11:57 sbp "and that I'm not famous, just loud"
11:57 moritz_ masak: thought so
11:57 sbp what's the difference? :-)
11:57 masak moritz_: but I see people mixing us up here on the channel now and then.
11:57 moritz_ jnthn: akshually they are like verbs... but I don't have to tell you that
11:57 masak moritz_: so most likely you're the famous one, and I'm just the loud one. :P
11:57 colomon hell, I've mixed you up a few times myself.
11:57 sbp oh, I didn't see the fame algebra beneath
11:57 moritz_ masak: I'm mixing us up too... :-)
11:58 jnthn moritz_: Yeah, I know. Linguistic grasp fail...
11:58 masak moritz_: me too!
11:58 colomon it happens when there was a discussion I wasn't really paying attention to... sometimes I can only remember that one of the M's was involved.
11:58 moritz_ .oO( the ^m crowd )
11:58 masak mmmm... m.
11:58 jnthn The nick space seems to collect around some common prefixes. "m" is one of them, but "pm" also is. :-)
11:58 colomon or perhaps, the M & M's.  ;)
11:59 masak :D
11:59 moritz_ co also
11:59 jnthn Wow, yes.
12:00 jnthn "jn" is pretty lonely though.
12:00 * masak considers changing his nick to 'jnasak'
12:00 jnthn .oO( probably because those are the start of a word are unpronouncable )
12:00 colomon okay, new expression: M & M & co.
12:00 jnthn masak: :P
12:00 moritz_ :-)
12:01 ive joined #perl6
12:02 moritz_ due to unforseen circumstances I'll have less p6 time this week
12:02 moritz_ need to buy a "new" car, and that's a nasty business
12:03 masak moritz_: good luck!
12:03 masak moritz_: do you want someone else to do the weekly challenge?
12:03 moritz_ masak: that would be awesome
12:03 colomon I had an idea for the challenge, but I don't know if I'll have the time today to set it up.
12:03 masak seems I just volunteered. dang :P
12:04 moritz_ I also have an idea
12:04 masak nice. maybe nopaste it?
12:04 cognominal mazak++ ufo++
12:04 moritz_ the book has sidenodes, which are rendered less-than-awesome
12:04 cognominal but I had to go to the source to  understand what it was about.
12:05 moritz_ could be a challenge to come up with latex code for nice side bar rendering
12:05 moritz_ + as a bonus hack it into Pod::PseudoPod::LaTeX
12:05 cognominal And the lack of decent syntactical highlighting makes difficult to skim perl 6.
12:05 moritz_ vim.
12:06 mathw masak: pong
12:06 cosimo moritz_: I thought of doing the very same thing for synopsis documents and smartlinks
12:07 cosimo the way they are interspersed with the synopsis text is making it a bit difficult to follow the text
12:07 cosimo I can try to have a look at that, if someone else cares
12:07 moritz_ I do care
12:08 moritz_ and I think that the inline, hilighted test files can go away
12:08 moritz_ all that js load makes searching the pages very slow
12:08 cosimo i just volunteered to have a look then :)
12:09 moritz_ \o/
12:09 pugssvn r31159 | colomon++ | [spec] Change div and mod to be operators on integer types.
12:14 masak mathw: would you like to join in the revolution? http://github.com/masak/ufo
12:14 moritz_ perl6: say 'alive'
12:14 p6eval rakudo a1193f:  ( no output )
12:14 p6eval ..elf 31159, pugs: OUTPUT«alive␤»
12:15 masak cognominal: I agree about the syntax highlighting making it difficult to skip Perl 6 code.
12:15 moritz_ :~$ ./p/bin/perl6 -e 'say "hi"'
12:15 moritz_ Segmentation fault
12:15 masak cognominal: anything you would have liked to see in the ufo README that wasn't there?
12:16 mathw masak: I love the README
12:16 masak :)
12:16 colomon loliblogged: http://justrakudoit.wordpress​.com/2010/06/07/div-and-mod/
12:16 masak colomon++
12:17 mathw masak: yes I'll look at that
12:17 mathw some time
12:17 mathw umm
12:17 mathw not now
12:17 masak mathw: no worries.
12:17 * mathw reviews his schedule and realises 'sleep' doesn't really feature until wednesday night
12:17 masak worst thing that can happen is that you'll be the only one remaining on the 'human tech' list :P
12:18 masak colomon: 'only working on integer types'. what's the failure mode -- coercion, or runtime error?
12:19 colomon I'd argue runtime error.
12:19 cognominal masak: not really, I just hope that all your tools will be integrated in a whole, each being a point in the big whole.  Right now, it is like seeing a pointillist painting point by point even if each point is a world in itself.
12:19 masak colomon: because operators in Perl generally tend to coerce rather than error out.
12:20 colomon The spec already specifies that those two don't coerce.
12:20 mathw masak: from the look of it, it doesn't look like it's going to be too hard to do the convert anyway
12:20 mathw I take it you have to rerun ufo if your directory structure changes
12:20 colomon I think they have a very specific use, and if you're not there already, you shouldn't be using them.
12:21 colomon though I can see an argument that they should handle mixing different integer types.... hmmm...
12:21 masak cognominal: it's the small, rapid solutions which seem to succeed in the long term. I agree about it being important to unify them, but since no-one can see the whole yet, that will have to wait a bit. :)
12:21 masak mathw: no, it's just a question of removing the old files.
12:21 masak and maybe 'make install'-ing ufo.
12:22 colomon_phone joined #perl6
12:23 mathw ooh
12:23 mathw so you don't check in the generated Makefile
12:23 colomon_phone laptop just ran out of juice
12:23 mathw your build process is "ufo && make"
12:23 masak aye.
12:25 cognominal masak:  emergent design... something in between dartwinist evolution and  intelligent design. Quite appropriate for most human endeavors.
12:26 masak cognominal: I often find that parts of the Perl 6 effort are similar in structure to the Perl 6 effort itself. that probably goes for many communities. but Perl 6 as a whole is definitely emergent/whirlpool, with implementations informing the spec etc.
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12:29 pmurias ruoso: ping
12:29 moritz_ http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/parabel-small.png # the new logo for Math::RungeKutta
12:30 masak mathw: some projects under the proto umbrella have their Makefile committed. I see nothing fundamentally wrong about that; it's perhaps not always convenient that local changes show up as a dirty working dir. but that's not so bad.
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12:30 masak the principle behind ufo is exactly the same as with proto originally: "this can be done by hand, but it's, like, boring and stuff".
12:31 mathw also a certain level of standardisation is desirable
12:31 moritz_ rakudo: say 3
12:31 mathw especially for simple pure-Perl 6 libraries like Form
12:31 p6eval rakudo a1193f: OUTPUT«3␤»
12:32 colomon_phone \o/
12:32 meppl joined #perl6
12:33 * colomon_phone just remembered he should be able to launch a spectest run from his phone.
12:34 ruoso pmurias, pong
12:34 moritz_ rakudo: say { :one-and-some{1}, :almost-pie(3.3) }.WHAT
12:34 p6eval rakudo a1193f: OUTPUT«Hash()␤»
12:34 pmurias ruoso: hi
12:35 moritz_ rakudo: say { :one-and-some{1}, :almost-pie(3.3) }.<one-and-some>.WHAT
12:35 p6eval rakudo a1193f: OUTPUT«Block()␤»
12:35 moritz_ that's curious, ain't it?
12:35 jnthn Hmmm. :-)
12:35 pmurias ruoso: when testing the m0ld frontend for mildew i found a bug in smop that causes a segfault
12:36 jnthn moritz_: It kinda makes sense. :-)
12:36 moritz_ jnthn: but only kinda
12:36 jnthn Yeah.
12:37 pmurias ruoso: i added a new entry to the RI which also dumping the smop object so it's possible to look at their internals
12:37 masak moritz_: looks like a bug.
12:38 moritz_ masak: agreed
12:38 masak moritz_: so... what do we do? submit it?
12:38 jnthn Question is what should it do?
12:38 masak rakudo: say { :a{1} }<a>.WHAT
12:38 p6eval rakudo a1193f: OUTPUT«Block()␤»
12:38 moritz_ masak: yes
12:39 * masak submits rakudobug
12:39 jnthn er
12:39 moritz_ jnthn: construct a hash, and warn (odd number)
12:39 jnthn But {1} would be a block, not a hash.
12:39 masak agreed.
12:39 masak jnthn: the context should probably override it to always be a hash there.
12:39 moritz_ jnthn: yes, but :colonpair{postcircumfix} is a special syntactic form
12:40 jnthn I think it's correct.
12:40 jnthn S02:
12:40 jnthn a => {...}          :a{...}         :a({...})
12:40 colomon_phone spectest running, \o/
12:40 pmurias ruoso: here's an example of how the dumps look like http://pastie.org/994860
12:41 jnthn a => {...} will have {...} as either a block or a hash depending on what's in it.
12:41 moritz_ jnthn: hum. Yeah. How... suprising
12:41 jnthn moritz_: Well, if the rule is "what follows the name behaves exactly like the same circumfix would anywhere else"...it's not so surprising.
12:42 jnthn :comparator{ $^a.foo <=> $^b.foo } is kinda quite too. :-)
12:42 jnthn *cute
12:42 jnthn Thing is, would we expect
12:42 jnthn :comparator({ $^a.foo <=> $^b.foo }) to be a block there?
12:42 moritz_ you're right
12:43 pmurias ruoso: should the definitions of functions in smop headers have export?
12:43 masak so it should be a block?
12:43 pmurias like export int foo(void);
12:43 moritz_ it's just a thought I have to get used too
12:43 masak so, no bug report.
12:43 jnthn masak: I'm not seeing anything in the spec that suggests otherwise.
12:43 jnthn masak: And something that suggets it's fine that it is.
12:43 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
12:43 jnthn I'm sure we'll get clarification when somebody backlogs. :-)
12:44 jnthn It did make me do a double take.
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12:46 mathw :a({1}) looks like a pair with a block in the value slot to me
12:46 mathw :a{1} could easily be the same
12:46 mathw or not
12:46 moritz_ \o/ JSON::Tiny is down to 6 failing tests on master
12:47 mathw now I've caused doubt in myself
12:47 jnthn mathw: In a sense, it'd feel odd for it not to be the same too, though.
12:47 mathw actually it feels odd that it even parses
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12:47 jnthn Welcome to Perl. ;-0
12:48 mathw I thought colonpairs were supposed to use () :)
12:48 moritz_ nope
12:48 jnthn Nah, there's a load of variants
12:48 moritz_ rakudo: say :ab[3, 5].perl
12:48 p6eval rakudo a1193f: OUTPUT«"ab" => [3, 5]␤»
12:48 jnthn Basically, any dream^Wcircumfix will do.
12:48 * moritz_ recommends reading S02 or the book at some point :-)
12:48 jnthn Even better, once you can define your own circumfixes they'll parse there too under current STD. :-)
12:49 mathw moritz_: It's been a while since I read S02 all the way through
12:49 mathw so if [] makes lists, shouldn't {} make whatever {} makes elsewhere :)
12:49 moritz_ that's what we're discussing
12:49 mathw I think I've caught up now
12:49 moritz_ and after throwing my previous opinion over board I agree with jnthn++
12:50 mathw it would indeed make sense
12:50 masak mathw: {} makes blocks/closures.
12:50 pmurias ruoso: is there a timespan when you're accesible on irc or is email prefered?
12:50 colomon_phone surely [] makes arrays?
12:50 mathw masak: does it not also make hashes?
12:50 masak mathw: but sometimes there 'collapse' down into ordinary hashes.
12:50 masak s/there/these/
12:50 mathw okay
12:50 mathw well that can still happen
12:53 pugssvn r31160 | pmurias++ | [mildew] move the c emitting from AST::Block::SSA to Mildew::Backend::OptC
12:56 pmurias ruoso: with regards to missing the milestones i plan to crush the bug with the data dumping todayish and try to replace scons this week to meet the release SMOP to CPAN milestone
12:57 pmurias ruoso: do you think that's a sane plan?
12:59 masak moritz_: did you say you had an idea for the weekly challenge?
12:59 moritz_ masak: yes, I've described it in the backlog
12:59 moritz_ (fix some latex code for $book)
13:00 masak oh; I remember now.
13:00 moritz_ there are other ideas in misc/helpnow/README too
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13:02 moritz_ web-ish stuff has usually received high participation
13:03 jnthn How about something like "port X module from Web.pm to run on master"?
13:03 masak EMORETHANWEEK
13:03 moritz_ that would be nice too, for a module where we expect that to be quite smooth
13:03 jnthn masak: *one* module.
13:03 moritz_ provided there's a small enough module
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13:03 jnthn masak: Not the whole Web.pm.
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13:04 takadonet morning all
13:04 masak hm. possibly. but it's hardly an independent newbie task.
13:04 masak takadonet: \o
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13:05 masak someone could try it outside of a weekly challenge, perhaps. I'd be delighted if someone got Squerl working on master, frex.
13:06 masak the schedule at the end of misc/helpnow/README appears abandoned.
13:06 moritz_ it is
13:06 ruoso pmurias, email is preferred this days... it has been quite hard to be here in a predictable fashion
13:07 moritz_ since nobody else committed to taking a date in advance, it was useless for scheduling
13:07 masak moritz_: can I remove it?
13:07 moritz_ masak: sure
13:07 moritz_ masak: http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl​-6/contribute-now-announce.html has an up-to-date list of tasks that have been used already
13:08 ruoso pmurias, yes... it seems like a sane plan... but it would be cool if you could mail me more detailed information on where you are now, what you see ahead and so on
13:09 pugssvn r31161 | masak++ | [misc/helpnow/README] volunteered, removed stale schedule
13:18 pmurias ruoso: ok i'll try to write something
13:19 am0c joined #perl6
13:19 pmurias ruoso: what i'm implementing atm, is ++BACKEND --option-for-backend ... ++/BACKEND as invented by S19
13:20 pmurias so we can have ++BACKEND --trace ++/BACKEND and ++BACKEND --valgrind ++/BACKEND
13:21 ruoso I see... is that particular feature close to finish?
13:21 pmurias yes
13:21 ruoso okay... then I'd suggest getting back to "releasing SMOP/mildew to CPAN" per se
13:22 ruoso and adding extra features later, if time is available
13:22 mberends hi #perl6. After a little more work on FakeDBI, I plan to write some serious production code to use it: a little accounting or bookkeeping program, for my own small business. Anyone who is interested will be welcome to begin collaborating when the work begins, maybe as early as next week.
13:23 * moritz_ loves to hear of production uses of Perl 6
13:23 pmurias ruoso: the things that blocks me in releasing SMOP is that the code mildew turns m0ld into segfaults
13:23 moritz_ mberends: how close is FakeDBI to being a subset of perl 5 DBI?
13:24 mberends moritz_: it's already CRUD complete, the rest is all optional bells and whistles
13:25 pmurias ruoso: so i want to port of the debuging aids from the old mildew to the new refactored one
13:25 moritz_ mberends: my question is more: does it contain incompatible API changes, apart from things that are NYI or not planned or due to the difference between Perl 5 and 6
13:25 jnthn Sheesh, what is it with people in Lund and loud horns today... :S
13:25 moritz_ (imagine a question mark at appropriate place)
13:27 mberends moritz_: no differences between P5 and P6. It really does work to simply replace -> with . and $arr[...] with @arr[...] and keep everything else unchanged so far.
13:28 moritz_ mberends: ok, thanks
13:28 PerlJam Where is FakeDBI?
13:28 moritz_ hugme: show FakeDBI
13:28 hugme moritz_: sorry, I don't know anything about 'FakeDBI'
13:28 moritz_ hugme: show fakeDBI
13:28 hugme moritz_: sorry, I don't know anything about 'fakeDBI'
13:28 moritz_ hugme: show fakedbi
13:28 hugme moritz_: the following people have power over 'fakedbi': P⁣erlJam, T⁣imToady, [⁣particle], c⁣olomon, j⁣nthn, m⁣asak, m⁣berends, m⁣oritz_, p⁣michaud, s⁣orear. URL: http://github.com/mberends/fakedbi/
13:29 PerlJam heh ... "github" would have been enough of an answer for me  :)
13:29 jnthn moritz_: (production use) I'm increasingly using it to do little bits to help along with $dayjob.
13:30 jnthn Small quick throwaway hacks more than anything.
13:30 jnthn But it's decidedly being useful.
13:32 moritz_ that's good news
13:32 mberends jnthn: more than 50% change that I'll go to http://www.perlworkshop.be/bpw2010/
13:32 mberends *chance, gah
13:32 jnthn What did it change...oh. :-)
13:33 jnthn 50% change from a 5% chance you'd go woulda need less awesome. ;-)
13:34 Woody2143 joined #perl6
13:34 mberends how can I say this and not be misunderstood? ;)
13:34 jnthn mberends: Somebody determined enough will always fine a way to misunderstand it. ;-)
13:35 jnthn mberends: I think they're still accepting talks, BTW, if you get to the point of it being more likely than not.
13:35 jnthn Schedule is pretty sparse.
13:35 jnthn Wow. There's a talk about "making out".
13:35 moritz_ is bpw only one day?
13:36 jnthn moritz_: Aye.
13:37 jnthn moritz_: But I suspect there's tasty Belgian beer on Friday *and* Saturday evenings. ;-)
13:37 mberends I'll probably submit a talk about Perl 6 database interfaces to BPW
13:39 jnthn mberends: +1
13:39 mberends jnthn: ^^ were you threatening to *fine* me?
13:41 jnthn :-)
13:41 jnthn mberends: I think I just submitted to waffle about Rakudo *
13:41 jnthn Which means I'll probably just waffle about Awesome Stuff That Works.
13:41 moritz_ hm, waffles are tasty
13:42 mberends waffle FTW
13:42 jnthn What other word could I use do describe a talk at a *Belgian* workshop? ;-)
13:42 dalek rakudo: 6f0d81a | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/ (2 files):
13:42 dalek rakudo: Initial implementation of infix:<mod>.  In the long run, should maybe be in
13:42 dalek rakudo: Integral (Integer?) instead of Real.
13:42 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6​f0d81a913f85f4b920cd38014b6bf6bed9c88ac
13:47 pugssvn r31162 | pmurias++ | [mildew] ++BACKEND ++/BACKEND support
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14:04 pugssvn r31163 | pmurias++ | [mildew] added the --dump option to dump the frame after every instruction
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14:51 masak hugme: show fakedbi
14:51 hugme masak: the following people have power over 'fakedbi': P⁣erlJam, T⁣imToady, [⁣particle], c⁣olomon, j⁣nthn, m⁣asak, m⁣berends, m⁣oritz_, p⁣michaud, s⁣orear. URL: http://github.com/mberends/fakedbi/
14:52 masak moritz_: in the hugme output above, my client shows an unprintable character after each nick's initial character. why is that, you think?
14:52 masak I see nothing similar in the IR clogs.
14:53 masak mberends: that accounting/bookkeeping idea sounds cool! I can't promise tuits, but I'll make sure to follow along, so I hope it'll be on a reease early/often schedule. :)
14:53 _sri joined #perl6
14:53 masak mberends: also, I might try to make fakedbi work with Web.pm Very Soon. unless Tene++ beats me to it.
14:54 _jaldhar_ joined #perl6
14:54 jnthn masak: Because your client doesn't know how to display INVIZIBLE SEPARATOR
14:54 mberends masak: :-)
14:54 jnthn masak: (which was added to stop doing mass highlights of everyone when querying hugme)
14:54 masak jnthn: oh, so it's deliberate to avoid nick highlighting? I shoulda realized that.
14:54 masak right.
14:55 jnthn Yeah
14:55 jnthn .u INVISIBLE SEPARATOR
14:55 phenny U+2063 INVISIBLE SEPARATOR (⁣)
14:55 masak "I see invisible separators!" o.O
14:55 jnthn EINVISIBILITYFAIL
14:56 masak Emacs++
14:56 masak rakudo: say "j⁣nthn".chars
14:56 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«6␤»
14:56 masak awesome. :)
14:57 masak now only I will know the truth, and the rest of you will never know when to expect an invisible separator. :>
14:57 masak rakudo: say "j⁣n⁣t⁣h⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣n".chars
14:57 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«18␤»
14:57 jnthn Oh no...I can see the April Fool's bug report already;.
14:57 masak :D
14:58 masak rakudo: say "j⁣n⁣t⁣h⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣​⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣​⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣​⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣��
14:58 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 11, near "say \"j\u2063n\u2063t"␤»
14:58 skids .oO(fortunately April is a long way off)
14:58 masak rakudo: say "j⁣n⁣t⁣h⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣​⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣​⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣​⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣��
14:58 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 11, near "say \"j\u2063n\u2063t"␤»
14:59 masak seems it can't handle very many INVISUHBLE SEPARATUHRs in a row.
14:59 jnthn masak: I don't see the ending quote here... :-S
14:59 jnthn rakudo: say "j⁣n⁣t⁣h⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣​⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣​⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣�"
14:59 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«j⁣n⁣t⁣h⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣​⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣​⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣�␤»
14:59 jnthn hmm.
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15:00 masak rakudo: say "j⁣n⁣t⁣h⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣​⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣​⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣n".chars
15:00 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«108␤»
15:00 masak that's better.
15:00 jnthn rakudo: <a(⁣b(⁣c>.elems.say
15:00 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«1␤»
15:00 masak nice try :)
15:01 jnthn say ?("a(⁣b" ~~ /\s/)
15:01 jnthn rakudo: say ?("a(⁣b" ~~ /\s/)
15:01 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«0␤»
15:01 jnthn Ah
15:01 jnthn Oh of course, it's not white*space* because it's INVISIBLE.
15:01 jnthn :-)
15:02 masak right. INVISIBLE implies zero-width.
15:02 skids .oO(life before unicode was so much simpler)
15:02 masak no, the simplicity was just outside of the standard instead.
15:02 masak er, s/simplicity/complexity/
15:03 skids Honestly here in this country back in the early 90's I may have gone whole months between seeing umlauts.
15:04 jnthn That's nothing, in the country I was in during the early 90's I went YEARS without seeing umlauts.
15:05 * masak sees umlauts all day
15:05 jnthn Me too now.
15:05 * Su-Shee starts even hearing umlauts.. ;)
15:06 jnthn Well, that's a mark above where I am right now.
15:06 masak jnthn: you're sitting under an umlaut? :)
15:07 masak jñthñ
15:07 jnthn Yeah, and it's driving me dotty!
15:07 masak hm, probably not umlauts... :)
15:08 jnthn heh, I learn something every day... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_umlaut
15:08 skids .oO("Spüriʊüs Ümläüts" would be an awsome hair metal band name.)
15:09 masak :)
15:09 jnthn :D
15:10 pmichaud "Metal Umlaut" would be a good name for a software release.  :-)
15:10 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
15:10 jnthn morning, pmichaud
15:10 masak morning, pmichaud
15:11 * jnthn looks  in despair at a CSV file he's meant to be able to parse
15:11 masak jnthn: you're not reinventing the CSV parser, are you?
15:11 jnthn It allows *unescaped* quotes inside a quoted string.
15:11 masak jnthn: that's CSV standard, last I looked. double quotes inside quoted strings.
15:12 jnthn masak: Ew.
15:12 masak I know. I was surprised too.
15:12 jnthn masak: I guess it's meant to look ahead after it to check that it doesn't have a delimiter there?
15:12 masak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comm​a-separated_values#Specification
15:12 masak it's there among the examples.
15:13 masak jnthn: guess so. don't remember how I did it in the Text::CSV module.
15:13 * masak cheks
15:14 masak ooh, nice!
15:14 masak regex quoted_contents { <pure_text> ** [ <[,]> | \s | '""' ] }
15:14 jnthn masak: Ah, no, what I have isn't like:
15:14 jnthn 1997,Ford,E350,"Super ""luxurious"" truck"
15:14 jnthn It's
15:14 jnthn 1997,Ford,E350,"Super "luxurious" truck"
15:14 masak o.O
15:14 * masak cries
15:15 masak right. I was ambiguous when I said 'double quotes' above.
15:15 masak I should have said 'double double quotes'.
15:15 jnthn Yes. :-)
15:15 jnthn That's reasonable and sane.
15:15 pmichaud or even "quoted double quotes"  :-)
15:16 masak in what sense are they quoted, apart from being inside a quote environment?
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15:17 masak it's more like they're escaped, and the escape character, insanely, is also a quote character.
15:17 jnthn "" is quite common
15:18 jnthn (as a way to write a " inside a "..." quoted string)
15:18 jnthn Even C# does it in @"...." strings.
15:18 skids And yet '' is not, you find as a newbie, when playing with sh.
15:19 colomon anyone out there relying on div's behavior in rakudo wrt negative operands?  it doesn't match spec atm.
15:19 * masak isn't
15:19 colomon masak++  ;)
15:20 masak hardly relying on div.
15:21 diakopter re gui toolkits, on mono/.NET there is gtk2
15:22 diakopter and asp.net, which is a gui toolkit in a manner of speaking
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15:27 * diakopter looks around for sorear
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15:50 masak http://gist.github.com/428829 # this week's contribution to Perl 6
15:50 masak comments welcome. if there are none, I'll publish that one soonish.
15:52 * jnthn glances it
15:52 jnthn masak: looks fine
15:53 jnthn s/visually inspiring/visually appealing/ ?
15:53 jnthn or "aesthetically pleasing" :-)
15:53 masak thanks. changing.
15:53 TimToady U    t/spec/S02-builtin_data_types/hash.t
15:53 TimToady U    t/spec/S32-num/real-bridge.t
15:53 TimToady U    t/spec/S32-list/minmax.t
15:53 TimToady bleah
15:53 TimToady EWRONGMOUSEBUTTON
15:53 masak TimToady: use nopaste for two lines or more :P
16:01 masak moritz_: I'm prepared to either post the challenge on my blog, or have you post it on yours, or both. whatever you think is best.
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16:54 moritz_ masonkramer: post in on yours, I'll write a short note on mine with a link
16:54 moritz_ erm, meant masak
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16:57 diakopter phenny: tell sorear i'll be back online mid-afternoon probably
16:57 phenny diakopter: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
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17:26 sorear messages clear
17:26 phenny sorear: 16:57Z <diakopter> tell sorear i'll be back online mid-afternoon probably
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17:40 patrickas hello
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17:41 moritz_ hi
17:41 sorear hi
17:42 moritz_ phenny: tell masak to please blog the challenge on his own blog
17:42 patrickas I got the one liner at the end of day23 to work with latest rakudo (it previously only worked with pugs) should I update it ?
17:42 phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
17:43 moritz_ patrickas: best add it, so that we have two versions
17:43 moritz_ and comment appropriately
17:44 patrickas ok I'll do that, I also got a couple of questions about it
17:46 patrickas is %(...){'x'} supposed to work if '...' is a code that can produce a hash ?
17:46 patrickas rakudo: say %(<a b c> Z <1 2 3>){'b'}
17:46 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«Method 'hash' not found for invocant of class 'GatherIterator'␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/93TXb9LxCR␤»
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17:52 patrickas actually I take that  back .. the old one liner parses with pugs but produces garbage.
17:54 patrickas anyways did I hear you needed someone to port some old code to work with latest master ?
18:12 [Coke] p4
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18:50 pugssvn r31164 | moritz++ | [t/spec] test hash vs. block distinction with leading ; and placeholders (RT #74050)
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18:56 pugssvn r31165 | moritz++ | [t/spec] < > returns an empty Parcel aka Nil (RT #73772)
19:00 moritz_ std: multi a($:b) { }
19:00 p6eval std 31163: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤You may not use the : twigil in a signature at /tmp/ai7BsmU96s line 1:␤------> [32mmulti a($[33m⏏[31m:b) { }[0m␤    expecting twigil␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 108m␤»
19:00 jnthn moritz_: The patch that adds a note about possible named parameter syntax confusion is OK to add, imho.
19:00 jnthn (just read the ticket a moment ago)
19:01 moritz_ I'll spectest it (not that it shoudl cause any harm...)
19:01 moritz_ "patch does not apply"
19:01 moritz_ huh
19:02 moritz_ applying it manually works just fine
19:03 moritz_ if only git-patch was as good as the merging stuff in git...
19:05 Tene git-patch?  you mean git-apply?
19:05 moritz_ yes
19:06 cognominal rakudo :  my &quoted = token (Str $s where { $s.chars == 1 } ) {  $s  [ '\\' $s | <?before $s> . ]*   $s }; say "'a'" ~~ quoted("'")
19:06 cognominal rakudo:  my &quoted = token (Str $s where { $s.chars == 1 } ) {  $s  [ '\\' $s | <?before $s> . ]*   $s }; say "'a'" ~~ quoted("'")
19:06 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤  in <anon> at line 1:/tmp/jJt0wELyJw␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/jJt0wELyJw␤»
19:06 cognominal hum
19:07 cognominal jnthn, any idea of what I am doing wrong?
19:08 jnthn cognominal: It won't work like that.
19:08 jnthn say "'a'" ~~ /<&quoted("'")>/
19:08 jnthn That should work
19:10 cognominal I am always burned by trying to put directly rules without the / / for a match, probably because it works in Perl 5.
19:10 cognominal And I am a bad student, I keep making the same mistakes
19:10 PerlJam "it works in Perl 5"?
19:10 PerlJam somehow I think you're comparing apples and oranges
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19:12 cognominal here what I means :  perl -e ' $a = qr|a|; print  'a' =~ $a'
19:12 cognominal 1
19:12 cognominal you know, I don't need to do a  /$a/ in the right
19:13 PerlJam rakudo: $a = rx/a/;  say 'a' ~~ $a;  # like this?
19:13 cognominal I can't argue if it would be meaninful in perl 6, but my memory muscles keeps doing that in Perl 6
19:14 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$a' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤»
19:14 PerlJam oops, forgot the my
19:14 PerlJam rakudo: my $a = rx/a/;  say 'a' ~~ $a;  # like this?
19:14 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«a␤»
19:14 cognominal ho
19:14 PerlJam like I said, apples and oranges.  If you use the equivalent constructs, it works equivalently  :)
19:15 cognominal yes.
19:17 cognominal I will try to understand later why the first form as for a seconde parameter, when the token is defined outside a class.  I am not 100% convinced that the right behavior.
19:18 cognominal I am stubborn that way, hitting all the walls to learn the correct path
19:20 Ross joined #perl6
19:25 Tene cognominal: rules and tokens are methods.  you didn't give it an invocant.
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19:25 cognominal rakudo :  / <&quoted("'") > /
19:25 cognominal rakudo:  / <&quoted("'") > /
19:25 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤regex assertion not terminated by angle bracket at line 11, near "(\"'\") > /"␤»
19:26 cognominal I don't see them as methods when defined outside a class.
19:27 cognominal rx is just alternate syntax for a rule so why does it behave correctly?
19:28 cognominal rakudo:  / < &quoted("'") > /
19:28 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 11, near "/ < &quote"␤»
19:38 dalek rakudo: b258f5c | (Stéphane Payrard)++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
19:38 dalek rakudo: Awesommify error message for $:a in signature
19:38 dalek rakudo: Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz <moritz@faui2k3.org>
19:38 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b​258f5cc1633c4aa5035a3e5ba4c4dd076d50ee2
19:40 arnsholt Does array slicing work in Rakudo yet?
19:40 PerlJam rakudo: my @a = "a".."z";  say @a[5,6,8,12,15];
19:40 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«fgimp␤»
19:44 ash__ rakudo: my @a = ((2, 1), (3,4)); say @a[1;1]; say @a[1;*]; # that second slice seems wrong...
19:44 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«1␤2134␤»
19:45 ash__ actually that first slice is wrong too
19:45 ash__ hmm
19:45 moritz_ rakudo doesn't do any multidim stuff
19:45 ash__ maybe those don't work yet
19:46 ash__ ah
19:46 ash__ got ya
19:47 jnthn I didn't realize we parsed those...
19:48 ash__ rakudo: my @a = 'a' .. 'z'; say @a[* ~~ /<[a..e]>/] # would be neat if that worked, is that the right syntax?
19:48 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«a␤»
19:48 * moritz_ wonders how hard it would be to add minlength and maxlength info to PAST::Regex nodes
19:48 arnsholt rakudo: my @a = (1,2,3,4,5); @a[1,*].perl.say;
19:48 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«(2, (1, 2, 3, 4, 5))␤»
19:49 cognominal moritz++ made my day by accepting my patch
19:49 arnsholt rakudo: my @a = (1,2,3,4,5); say @a[1,*];
19:49 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«212345␤»
19:49 arnsholt rakudo: my @a = (1,2,3,4,5); @a[1,+@a].perl.say;
19:49 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«(2, Proxy.new())␤»
19:50 moritz_ cognominal++ # submitting patches
20:01 pugssvn r31166 | moritz++ | [S32] fix a grammero
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20:11 diakopter moritz_: I like the spello in the commit msg :P
20:13 moritz_ diakopter: for some reason I can't quite put my finger on I always spell "grammar" with "e" :-)
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20:15 moritz_ rakudo: say &Nil().WHAT
20:15 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81: OUTPUT«Parcel()␤»
20:15 moritz_ rakudo: say &Nil().hash.WHAT
20:15 p6eval rakudo 6f0d81:  ( no output )
20:17 moritz_ cognominal++ has the new record for crashing rakudo in a minimal number of steps
20:17 moritz_ before it used to .HOW.HOW (8)
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20:17 moritz_ now it's %() (3)
20:18 moritz_ where crash = segfault
20:18 ash__ %() (3)? is that casting nothing as a hash then asking for the 3rd element?
20:18 moritz_ no, just  %()
20:19 moritz_ 3 is the number of characters
20:19 ash__ ooh got ya
20:19 ash__ lol, yup seg faults here too
20:22 cognominal moritz_, I am very good at breaking toys.
20:22 moritz_ cognominal: you should team up with masak :-)
20:22 moritz_ cognominal: want a new toy to break? check out Math::RungeKutta
20:23 cognominal as a production programmer, I am a plague because I alway hit many bugs
20:23 dalek csmeta: r322 | diakopter++ | trunk/Sprixel/ (8 files):
20:23 dalek csmeta: [perlesque] implement constructors/methods/fields/events/properties on generic
20:23 dalek csmeta: types.
20:23 dalek csmeta: review: http://code.google.com/p/c​smeta/source/detail?r=322
20:23 moritz_ http://github.com/moritz/Math-RungeKutta
20:24 PerlJam moritz_++
20:25 moritz_ book LHF: http://github.com/perl6/book/issues#issue/4
20:26 moritz_ (if it's valid, no idea)
20:35 dalek book: 1eb7efd | moritz++ | src/basics.pod:
20:35 dalek book: [bsics] s:g/games/matches/ to be less confusing
20:35 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/1e​b7efd214b2ad03673ac02b104d202e13b317ed
20:39 pugssvn r31167 | pmurias++ | [smop] dumping the interpreter and bools works
20:43 dalek csmeta: r323 | diakopter++ | trunk/Sprixel/ (3 files):
20:43 dalek csmeta: [perlesque] bugfixes
20:43 dalek csmeta: review: http://code.google.com/p/c​smeta/source/detail?r=323
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21:48 arnsholt Right. It's Str, not String >.<
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21:54 arnsholt What's the idiom to convert a list of alternating keys and values to a hash again?
21:55 arnsholt (Or is it just %hash = @list?)
21:56 Juerd Yes
21:57 Juerd Arrays called list are confusing
21:57 arnsholt Oh. Right
21:57 arnsholt True. I tend to think of arrays as lists. It's a functionalism I suppose
21:58 sbp @cecinepasunearray
21:58 Juerd n'est pas
21:58 sbp danke
21:58 Juerd De rien :)
21:58 arnsholt Is a Hash the same as a List of Pairs?
21:59 arnsholt (I'm guessing no)
21:59 diakopter sorear: hio
21:59 Juerd arnsholt: No, but it can flatten to one
22:00 masak joined #perl6
22:00 masak ahoy!
22:00 phenny masak: 17:42Z <moritz_> tell masak to please blog the challenge on his own blog
22:00 arnsholt But with non-deterministic order, right?
22:00 masak will do.
22:00 arnsholt Bah. I'll just do this file munging with a grammar. That's why we have them after all =D
22:01 Juerd arnsholt: Depends on how determined you are
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22:03 Juerd arnsholt: The order will (iirc) be the same as the one for .keys and .values, but it can change with every mutation
22:03 masak lol i blogged: http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/40385
22:07 jnthn lolmasakblogged!
22:07 masak heh; chromatic responded to ank's comment: http://use.perl.org/comments​.pl?sid=44783&amp;cid=72023
22:07 masak chromatic++
22:08 jnthn A very chromatic++ reply. :-)
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22:10 masak I'm glad to be thought to belong to the same stubborn conspiracy as such an eloquent and concise fellow.
22:15 * jnthn finally has $scary-live-demo for dayjob together...hopefully.
22:15 jnthn Far too much that could possibly go wrong. :-)
22:17 masak "it's a million-to-one chance, but it might just work!"
22:19 masak arnsholt: a list of pairs is all you need to make a hash, and it can easily pretend to be one, but it isn't one. a list is ordered, a hash never is.
22:20 sorear masak: chromatic is quite human
22:20 arnsholt masak: Yeah, that's what I thought
22:21 masak sorear: certainly. but for a person being about as load as I am, he makes much better use of his voice and his choice of words. :)
22:24 diakopter load -> loud?
22:25 diakopter or   loaded?
22:25 jnthn :-D
22:25 masak I rest my case.
22:25 masak yes, *loud
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22:43 arnsholt Is making the ast with inlined code in the grammar supposed to work, or am I doing it wrong?
22:46 * masak is not sure he understands the question
22:46 masak which grammar?
22:47 arnsholt I'll cook up an example. That should clearer
22:48 arnsholt grammar Foo { token TOP { <foo> { $<foo>.ast.perl.say } }; token foo { foo { make "OH HAI" } } }; Foo.parse("foo");
22:48 arnsholt Er,
22:48 arnsholt rakudo: grammar Foo { token TOP { <foo> { $<foo>.ast.perl.say } }; token foo { foo { make "OH HAI" } } }; Foo.parse("foo");
22:48 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«Any␤»
22:49 arnsholt See what I'm trying to do?
22:50 jnthn Yeah - I suspect it should work.
22:50 masak aye.
22:51 masak same her.
22:51 masak s/her/here/
22:52 sorear arnsholt: doing anything involving $<foo> in inlined code is expected to be weird because $/ isn't defined during regex execution
22:52 sorear there are some rules in S05 about it.  incomprehensible ones.
22:53 pugssvn r31168 | cosimo++ | [docs] Try to make synopsis html docs less cluttered
22:53 pugssvn r31168 |
22:53 pugssvn r31168 | - Index page now hides lots of intro text by default
22:53 pugssvn r31168 | - Improved default css a bit for synopsis documents
22:53 pugssvn r31168 | - Smartlinks now right-aligned
22:53 pugssvn r31168 | - Replaced small/full links with icons
22:53 pugssvn r31168 | - Icon links are currently broken. Needs fix!
22:53 * masak was just about to refer to S05, but chooses to consult it instead
22:53 masak cosimo++!
22:54 cosimo let's see if I broke something... :)
22:54 cosimo i guess the next sync will happen in an hour or something?
22:55 arnsholt sorear: Oh, right. Thanks for the clarification
22:57 cosimo would be cool to see if the docs are ok before going to sleep
22:57 cosimo i really need to
22:57 cosimo :)
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23:03 cosimo if there's breakage in the synopsis docs at perlcabal.org, you know it's me. I will take a look tomorrow morning and fix the fixable.
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23:16 lue ohai
23:18 masak \o
23:19 masak what's the semantics of $2 in a regex with fewer than three parentheses?
23:20 masak rakudo: say "foo" ~~ /f(.)$2 o/
23:20 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«foo␤»
23:20 masak alpha: say "foo" ~~ /f(.)$2 o/
23:20 p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_string()␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
23:20 masak I have to confess I like alpha's reaction better in this case.
23:20 * masak submits rakudobug
23:20 masak std: say "foo" ~~ /f(.)$2 o/
23:20 p6eval std 31168: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 109m␤»
23:20 jnthn Great, we spend all our time removing null PMC accesses...
23:20 jnthn :P
23:21 masak :)
23:21 jnthn masak: I guess what you're saying is you want an error?
23:21 masak aye.
23:21 jnthn Or at least a warning.
23:21 jnthn It's one of those things we should be able to spot and barf over at compile time though, I guess.
23:21 masak since this is something that we can statically check for...
23:22 masak right.
23:22 arnsholt Are strings still the only valid type for keys?
23:22 masak in Rakudo? yes.
23:22 arnsholt That's what I thought. Hopefully it explains why my code refuses to work =)
23:23 lue anyone catch wind of Apple's new HTML5 demo? :)
23:23 sorear yes
23:23 masak Apple is the company that makes those Mac computers, right?
23:23 jnthn masak: iThink so.
23:23 masak I like those. they look nice.
23:24 * jnthn likes his ThinkPad, but more for its robustness than its aesthetics.
23:24 lue Here's a tip: don't use Safari :)
23:24 lue It's a joke.
23:25 masak one I don't get.
23:25 masak rakudo: say "foo" ~~ / f $0 (.) /
23:25 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«fo␤»
23:25 jnthn Getting stuff to display decently on Safari is a lot less bother than it is in a certain other browser.
23:25 jnthn masak: heh
23:26 sorear you mean IE4?
23:26 masak jnthn: that's why it must be wrong.
23:26 bjarneh joined #perl6
23:26 jnthn sorear: IE6 ain't much fun. 7 and up is, admittedly, better.
23:27 jnthn sorear: Last time I was doing any HTML layout complex enough to be non-trivial, IE6 was still big enough in terms of user base to have to care about.
23:27 jnthn sorear: I do look after one legacy codebase at $dayjob that has a few references to workarounds for IE4 vs NS4 though. :-)
23:27 lue jnthn: it still is, amazingly
23:27 ashleydev joined #perl6
23:27 Juerd IE6 userbase is still way too big. :(
23:27 arnsholt Whee! Halfway to a trained bigram HMM =D
23:28 lue That's why I've vowed never to actively take time to support IE. Takes too much time.
23:28 Juerd I'm enjoying doing html5 and jquery but IE6 really makes me angry.
23:28 jnthn jquery is about the only thing I find fun in client side web dev these days.
23:29 sorear problem: making coordinated changes to viv and STD is a real bother
23:29 Juerd I like two tiny things about html 5 that can still make me smile
23:29 Juerd 1. I can actually remember the doctype
23:30 lue Amen to 1.
23:30 Juerd 2. <meta charset="..."> is so much nicer.
23:30 Juerd (than http-equiv garbage)
23:34 lue For ye who have not seen: http://www.apple.com/html5/
23:35 Tene looks like something like 7%, and there's the question of what correlates with that 7%, such that they would or wouldn't visit your site.
23:35 lue And remember: only Safari supports HTML5. No other browser supports even a single tag </sarcasm>
23:36 * lue wants to hack into their scripts and get pass the Safari Only code.
23:36 lue *past
23:37 lue rakudo: multi sub circumfix:<A T>($a) {$a;}; multi sub circumfix:<C G>($a) {$a;}; say A "hi" T; say C "hi"
23:37 sorear I've seen blog posts from people who've dissected the source of the demo
23:37 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n'␤  in file 'EVAL_1' line 36574794␤===SORRY!===␤syntax error ... somewhere␤»
23:37 sorear it's actually quite legitimate that they only allow Safari, because what it's actually demonstrating is HTML5's vendor namespace feature
23:38 jhuni joined #perl6
23:38 lue It doesn't matter. You don't say "Look at our support for HTML5" and then make it safari-only
23:39 lue I ought to tell them about their false advertisment
23:39 lue i.e. "...Not all browsers offer this support...."
23:39 jnthn lue: Didn't do custom circumfixes just yet...but that error message is crap.
23:39 arnsholt Heh. Adding parametrised type constraints to my code caused Rakudo to segfault
23:39 arnsholt Whoops
23:40 lue If you notice, that was base pairings, and I wanted a mismatch or missing "G" error :)
23:40 jnthn arnsholt: ugh.
23:41 masak lue: you could try the same trick with strings or arrays instead, perhaps.
23:41 lue rakudo: say /<digit>+/.WHAT
23:41 arnsholt jnthn: Yeah. I'm trying to extricate the bug from my code
23:41 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«Regex()␤»
23:42 dalek rakudo: b497776 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Int.pm:
23:42 dalek rakudo: Change infix:<div> to return floor($a / $b) as in the spec.  (Same as before for
23:42 dalek rakudo: positive, different rounding direction for negative.)
23:42 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b​4977768c475f32ffa621d0eae2373cdb19b5ed6
23:42 lue rakudo: say Regex.^methods
23:42 p6eval rakudo b258f5:
23:42 p6eval ..OUTPUT«ACCEPTSBoolwrapassumingunwrapACCEPTScoun​taritynewmultinameclonesignaturedoperlreturnsofas​sumingcallwithStrsecasectrimcotanhtrim-leadingcis​logsechlog10randtruncatesprintfbytessqrtsinasinco​shsuccsignasinhacosechabsucceilingunpolarfloorsam​ecasesubstrasechordroundflipsplitmatchacoshaco…
23:42 lue O.o
23:43 arnsholt rakudo: multi sub foo(Array of Str @foo) {}; foo(<helo>);
23:43 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«_block39␤»
23:43 arnsholt Oh, wait. I'm not up to date
23:43 jnthn Array of Str probably won't work too well ATM
23:44 jnthn Also though, Array of Str means every element in @foo would be an Array, if it did work.
23:44 arnsholt Point
23:44 arnsholt (In this case I even want Array of Str @arr)
23:44 arnsholt Even if I wrote it Array of Array of Str @arr before you pointed that out
23:45 arnsholt But type parameters are parsed but not checked, no?
23:46 jnthn arnsholt: They are checked, AFAIK.
23:46 jnthn In most places
23:47 arnsholt Oh, goodie. Last time I poked that they weren't
23:47 jnthn rakudo: my Int @foo; my Str @bar; sub x(Int @foo) { }; x(@foo); x(@bar);
23:47 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '@foo'; expected Positional[Int] but got  instead␤  in 'x' at line 11:/tmp/SRISyWz6jV␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/SRISyWz6jV␤»
23:48 jnthn but got...FAIL.
23:48 arnsholt Heh
23:48 lue rakudo: say Regex.new("<digit>+")
23:48 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«too few positional arguments: 2 passed, 3 (or more) expected␤  in main program body at line 1␤»
23:48 lue rakudo: say Regex.new("<digit>+").perl
23:48 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«too few positional arguments: 2 passed, 3 (or more) expected␤  in main program body at line 1␤»
23:48 lue :(
23:49 masak g'night, #perl6!
23:49 jnthn o/
23:49 lue goodnight
23:49 jnthn lue: say regex { <digit>+ }
23:49 jnthn well or (regex { ... }).perl
23:50 lue rakudo: my $a = "<digit>+"; say regex { $a } # likely fail
23:50 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«_block49␤»
23:50 lue rakudo: my $a = "<digit>+"; say (regex { $a }).perl # likely fail
23:50 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«{ ... }␤»
23:51 lue rakudo: my $a = "<digit>+"; my $b = regex { $a } ; say "1337 h4x0r" ~~ $b
23:51 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«␤»
23:51 lue hrm..
23:53 lue rakudo: my $a = "<digit>+"; my $b = regex { $a } ; say '1337 h4x0r $ays hi' ~~ $b
23:53 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«␤»
23:53 lue I mustn't comprehend regexes :)
23:53 sorear lue: you appear to be under a critical misunderstanding of what variables in regexes do
23:53 tedv joined #perl6
23:53 jnthn lue: I think you want <$a>
23:53 lue obviously :)
23:54 lue rakudo: my $a = "<digit>+"; my $b = regex { <$a> } ; say '1337 h4x0r $ays hi' ~~ $b
23:54 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«1337␤»
23:54 jnthn <$a> treats $a as regex code
23:54 jnthn $a matches it literally
23:54 lue And Now....
23:54 sorear reread the section starting at S05:0991
23:55 lue rakudo: multi sub circumfix<☃ ☄> ($a) { regex { <$a> };}; say '1337 h4x0r' ~~ ☃"<digit>+"☄
23:55 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed multi at line 11, near "sub circum"␤»
23:55 lue so. close.
23:56 sorear you mean circumfix:<
23:56 lue rakudo: multi sub circumfix:<☃ ☄> ($a) { regex { <$a> };}; say '1337 h4x0r' ~~ ☃"<digit>+"☄
23:56 p6eval rakudo b258f5: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n'␤  in file 'EVAL_1' line -2102517350␤===SORRY!===␤syntax error ... somewhere␤»
23:57 lue dankon sorear, that was it.
23:57 lue Now it's just ye olde circumfix bug.
23:57 jnthn lue: Rakudo doesn't know how to handle those just yet.
23:57 jnthn It's a medium difficulty patch.
23:57 lue .oO(It's the one thing keeping ☃☄ from being reborn)

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