Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-06-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 Sarten-X joined #perl6
00:05 lue afk
00:24 Sarten-X joined #perl6
00:33 Chillance joined #perl6
00:38 Fozo joined #perl6
00:38 Fozo I was wondering how would I sign up to contribute to the devolpmet oof Perl 6?
00:38 Fozo devolpment*
00:38 Fozo devolpment*
00:39 sjn Fozo: have you looked at http://rakudo.org/how-to-help ?
00:39 Fozo No I have not semm that yet I beleive here let me check it outr
00:40 Fozo out*
00:40 yinyin joined #perl6
00:40 masonkramer joined #perl6
00:42 Fozo Hmm I can not acess the mailing lists
00:45 Fozo wait can anyone explain how all of this would work?  Do I  just submit bug reports and nothing else or do I say  give away my email and then perhaps send code contributing to the complier?  Or do  people request fetures and then people volunenteer to make these desires a reality, I really want to help make perl 6 a reality and hopefully I am not too late to join or any thing. Answers will be appreacaited
00:47 Fozo everyone here is soo quite,
00:47 colomon well, submitting bug reports is useful and easy.
00:47 colomon It's also easy to get a commit bit to the spectest svn repo.
00:47 Fozo okay but say I wanted to contribute to the code, or sytenx of the launguage is there I way I "sign-up" for this?
00:48 colomon Working on tests is a very useful way to get started, that's what I did.
00:48 colomon submitting short patches to the code is certainly doable.
00:48 Fozo hmmm what do I mean? excuse if I am a complete noob
00:48 colomon you don't really sign up, in general.  you just do it.
00:49 Fozo yes that sounds like something I would be intertsed
00:49 Fozo in*
00:49 Fozo in*
00:49 Fozo so where do I get the source  code?
00:49 colomon github
00:50 colomon http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo
00:50 colomon instructions are on that page.
00:50 colomon everyone is quiet because they're logged in but elsewhere -- in many cases, asleep.
00:51 colomon (say, the Europeans) or at least having a quiet Sunday away from their computers.
00:51 Fozo now is this just to contribute to the complier or the whole project?
00:51 colomon I imagine a lot of the Americans are traveling to YAPC::NA, that was my day as well.
00:52 colomon rakudo's source is just that.  there's also the Parrot project for the VM underlying Rakudo.
00:52 colomon and the spectest suite, which is for all versions of Perl 6.
00:53 Fozo hmm where is that  website, I was confused on what parrot auctally was
00:53 colomon parrot.org
00:53 colomon but unless you explicitly want to mess with parrot, it's easier to just let Rakudo build it for you and not worry about it.
00:53 Fozo no for the suite
00:54 colomon http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/t/spec
00:55 Fozo so I installed parrot and now I need a plug in?
00:56 colomon how did you install parrot?
00:56 Fozo I used the sourceforge main install
00:57 Fozo LOoL! I'm sooo confused
00:58 colomon http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo has install instructions about halfway down the page...
01:03 Fozo so I need a c ide and a perl ide?
01:03 Fozo I have strawberry perl
01:05 Fozo wait so I have installed Parrot and all I see in my task bar is unistall parrot
01:05 Fozo wait so I have installed Parrot and all I see in my task bar is unistall parrot
01:09 colomon you need a C compiler and Perl 5.8 or better, yes.
01:09 Fozo okay then do I run parrot or something the instructions are rather confusing, so please excuse my most likely stupid questions
01:10 Fozo okay then do I run parrot or something the instructions are rather confusing, so please excuse my most likely stupid questions
01:14 colomon do you have git?
01:14 Fozo I made an account
01:15 colomon errr... backing up -- what platform are you on?
01:15 Fozo I made an account I think
01:15 Fozo Windows
01:17 colomon okay, do you have a C/C++ compiler?
01:18 dalek rakudo: b98d7fa | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
01:18 dalek rakudo: Add Real.ACCEPTS.
01:18 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b​98d7fab84c542a2c7bb524c7ad7305cf60a6e26
01:21 Fozo yes dev  c++
01:21 Fozo will that work
01:21 Fozo will it have any licinse issues?
01:22 colomon Rakudo or Parrot don't have licenses  that might cause issues.
01:23 * colomon wishes jnthn was here, he builds Rakudo on Windows every day...
01:23 Fozo no I mean do contribute to perl do I need a spefic liscense or can free downloads work, in other words I am wondering if Dev c++ has a license that will not working for distributing perl, does perl make any money off of its disbutions that I do not know about?
01:24 Fozo to*
01:25 colomon The Perl Foundation doesn't make any money off of it, but there's nothing stopping someone else from making money from it -- like ActivePerl does for Perl 5.
01:25 Fozo I can always use eclipise
01:26 Fozo okay hold on let me check something
01:27 Fozo is the GNU GPL liscense for my complier work
01:27 Fozo "Status : Free Software (under the GNU General Public License) "
01:28 Fozo according to my complier's website
01:28 Fozo according to my complier's website
01:30 Fozo ?????????????
01:32 ashleydev joined #perl6
01:33 Fozo hmm
01:33 Fozo hmm
01:33 colomon your compiler is GNU?
01:33 Fozo I believe so
01:34 Fozo unless the main site is lieing to me
01:34 Fozo unless the main site is lieing to me
01:34 sorear you're repeating yourself...why?
01:34 Fozo what OS are you on, I assume LInux?
01:35 colomon I'm on OS X, though I build Rakudo on Linux a couple of times a month as well.
01:35 Fozo sorry bad habbit excuse that
01:35 Fozo so will the GNU license work in order so I can devolp
01:37 sorear GPL does not restrict how you can use the software *in any way*
01:37 colomon Probably at least half of us (including me) are using GNU-based C compilers for this work.
01:37 sorear you can use a GPLed compiler to write commercial software
01:38 sorear the software which runs macos and the iphone is all compiled with GNU CC
01:38 Fozo okay thank you
01:38 xinming joined #perl6
01:39 sorear also, if you want to contribute code to Rakudo you'll need to mail a signed copyright sharing agreement to TPF
01:39 Fozo okay now colomon what elese will I need, thank you soo much for all of your help
01:39 sorear so it's probably better to start somewhere else
01:39 sorear than the compiler core, I mean
01:40 Fozo hmm TPF?
01:41 * Fozo feels very stupid
01:41 * Fozo feels very  very stupid
01:41 colomon The Perl Foundation
01:42 colomon you can contribute small bits without, but for bigger stuff, yes, you need to sign their agreement.
01:42 Fozo well could I email' it?
01:42 Fozo well could I email' it? to them
01:44 Fozo what do you mean by "small" and "bigger"?
01:45 Fozo what do you mean by "small" and "bigger"?
01:45 Fozo sorry
01:46 sorear do you realize that every time you type a line twice, it gets forwarded to 172 people who then have to look at both copies?
01:46 colomon I'm not sure what the dividing line is, but I know I contributed several small patches before sending my form to them.
01:46 Fozo Sorry, I will stop doing that
01:47 xinming joined #perl6
01:47 Fozo Okay so I can just add like one small feture at a time to see if it is right for me? and then sign this  contract and mail it?
01:48 TiMBuS joined #perl6
01:48 molaf_ joined #perl6
01:49 sorear Fozo: yes
01:49 sorear the best thing you can do is just lurk here for a while
01:49 sorear when you see something interesting, JUMP ON IT
01:49 Fozo okay then I have a C complier and parrot now what in theory would be my next step
01:49 Fozo hmmm okay
01:50 colomon you need git
01:50 colomon not just github, but actual git software for your machine
01:51 Fozo oh okay where would one install such a sosftwear
01:51 Fozo ???
01:51 colomon http://help.github.com/
01:51 colomon look at install git link there.
01:51 yinyin joined #perl6
01:55 Fozo okay now I have that installing
01:56 Fozo all done
01:57 Fozo what is the next step?
01:58 colomon you have a perl 5?
01:59 Fozo I installed strawberry perl
01:59 Fozo so I think I do
01:59 patspam joined #perl6
02:00 colomon strawberry should be fine.
02:00 colomon then you need to do the equivalent of
02:00 colomon git clone git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git
02:01 colomon Not sure how to do that with Windows git.
02:01 colomon might just be a matter of typing that at the command line.
02:02 yinyin joined #perl6
02:03 Fozo wait I have the git gui but the problem is do I have to install a certain file?
02:03 Fozo what do I clone?
02:04 Fozo I c that you contributed just recently
02:04 [mark] joined #perl6
02:07 colomon while we were talking
02:08 colomon what you are cloning is git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git
02:08 Fozo wait what I put that in a browswer?
02:08 colomon no
02:09 colomon on the command line, you just say
02:09 colomon git clone git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git
02:10 Fozo okay
02:14 Fozo who uses git on  windows here?
02:15 Fozo rrgh why is this so hard
02:17 Fozo it did not wotk
02:17 Fozo work*
02:19 Fozo can anyone help me with this
02:19 Fozo ??????
02:22 Fozo hmmm I wish I could contribute to perl, but whatever thank you everyone for all of your help but I think I'm gonna lave
02:22 Fozo leave*\
02:24 Sarten-X joined #perl6
02:26 TiMBuS Fozo, I can try to help if you want
02:26 TiMBuS i know git for windows is a bit annoying
02:27 agentzh joined #perl6
02:27 Fozo thanks
02:27 Fozo TImBus how do I clone the repsoitory
02:27 TiMBuS well that depends on what git you are running
02:28 TiMBuS TortoiseGit?
02:28 Fozo umm
02:28 Fozo I think mysgit
02:28 TiMBuS ah, so you need to run it from the command line
02:28 Fozo I have a GIt Gui thing
02:29 Fozo but I will install what ever is the easiest to teach me
02:29 TiMBuS sorry im just looking for what gui thing you could mean so i can see it
02:29 Fozo SO TImBus it is up to you
02:30 Fozo I will get tortiseGIt if you wish
02:30 yinyin joined #perl6
02:31 TiMBuS it might be easiest, unless you're familiar with using the dos command line
02:32 colomon TiMBuS++
02:34 Fozo not too much only a bit so let me get it
02:35 TiMBuS sure. don't uninstall msysgit though! its needed by tortoisegit
02:36 Fozo TImBus thank you for  your help
02:36 TiMBuS no problem
02:36 Fozo colomon thank you too
02:37 Fozo okay TimBus what now ( I  Say your name so you will get a notice if you swap windows)
02:37 Fozo okay TimBus what now ( I  Say your name so you will get a notice if you swap windows)
02:37 Fozo sorry
02:38 Fozo I no it is very annoying I apoligize
02:38 TiMBuS thats fine
02:39 Fozo umm what do I do now that it is installed?
02:40 TiMBuS you want to make tortoise clone the rakudo repository.
02:40 TiMBuS its relatively simple
02:40 Fozo yes I want to join the devolpment of perl 6 and I was told I needed to do that as my next step
02:41 TiMBuS i think tortoise has installed a right-click menu when you click on a directory in explorer
02:41 Fozo okay go ahead TIMBus
02:41 Fozo What do you mean?
02:42 TiMBuS when you right-click a dirctory, or your desktop, there should be options for tortoisegit
02:42 Fozo I don't have the directory to clone
02:43 Fozo I don't know what to clone!
02:44 TiMBuS thats ok. the first thing you need is to find tortoisegit's 'clone' option. it might be in the main gui
02:45 TiMBuS http://vimeo.com/9984118 according to this video, you merely need to right click in any directory (you can make your own) and the 'clone' option is there
02:46 Fozo Colomon what is the thing I want to clone?
02:46 TiMBuS git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git is the url
02:47 Fozo ty
02:47 Fozo sucuss
02:47 Fozo now what is the next thing that I must do
02:47 alester joined #perl6
02:48 TiMBuS well for now, you should have rakudos source code
02:49 Fozo right I think I do I also have parrot and I also have a complier for C  and I have strawberry Perl
02:49 TiMBuS thats good, then you'll need to configure and build rakudo.
02:50 TiMBuS to do that, go into rakudo's directory (the one you just cloned)
02:50 TiMBuS you'll need to run Configure.pl first. it should work just by double clicking it (i hope)
02:51 TiMBuS itll pop up a window for a second and then close, hopefully because it worked
02:53 TiMBuS and now we hit unknown territory because i have no idea how the windows 'make' works =/. where is fperrad when i need him
02:56 Fozo no the Pl file just gives me a txt file
02:56 Fozo no the Pl file just gives me a txt file
02:56 TiMBuS oh i see
02:57 TiMBuS well, youll need to use the command line to run it. hold 'shift' and then right click a blank spot in the folder so you get an extended right click menu
02:58 Fozo okay what do I do there?
02:58 TiMBuS and click 'open command prompt here'
02:59 TiMBuS i'm assuming you are using vista or windows 7
03:00 Fozo nope XP ftw
03:00 TiMBuS ah damn. you'll need to goto start->run and type cmd then
03:02 Fozo yah you should of said open comand prompt
03:02 Fozo let me guess
03:02 Fozo let me guess I need to cd it to that folder?
03:02 TiMBuS yep thats it
03:03 Fozo k now what?
03:03 TiMBuS type 'perl Configure.pl'
03:04 Fozo it came up with an error
03:04 TiMBuS perl isnt a valid command?
03:05 Fozo no it said 'parrot install' was not
03:05 TiMBuS oh
03:06 TiMBuS but you installed parrot? thats not good :/
03:06 Fozo I think I  did
03:07 TiMBuS on linux you can install parrot for using rakudo, and another parrot for making rakudo.
03:07 TiMBuS is there another option in the parrot install to install the 'developer' parrot?
03:08 TiMBuS I'm just guessing here, I wouldnt know
03:09 Fozo hmm I'm confused I dunno
03:09 TiMBuS this would go a bit easier if i still used windows
03:10 TiMBuS i can't really solve this one on my own, but i'm sure there are others in here who develop rakudo on windows! sorry i could only get this far for you
03:11 TiMBuS but at least you have rakudo's source code, so you can at least look at it, if that's what your aim was
03:12 Fozo LOoL! well ty all of you
03:13 Fozo where is the source any way
03:14 TiMBuS you can also probably write perl6 code since I think parrot comes with rakudo.
03:14 TiMBuS the source should be in src
03:15 Fozo how do I view .pm files
03:15 TiMBuS just in a text editor
03:15 TiMBuS i hear notepad++ is good
03:26 Fozo joined #perl6
03:26 Fozo I'm back TimBus
03:27 Fozo how do I read the src files
03:32 Fozo left #perl6
03:34 Fozo joined #perl6
03:35 TiMBuS Fozo, all of them should be text files. .pm files are written in perl 6
03:37 Fozo wait I don't see really any text files only .pm
03:37 sorear .pm is a kind of text
03:37 Fozo how do I open them?
03:37 sorear use a text editor
03:38 sorear 22:15 < TiMBuS> i hear notepad++ is good
03:38 sorear having not used windows in seven years I can't comment myself
03:39 TiMBuS i remember i used to write c code in plain old notepad. i don't recommend it
03:40 Fozo hmmm so now what is the point of doing configure.perl?
03:40 sorear the rakudo code won't open in notepad anyways unless microsoft seriously improved it in the last seven years
03:41 sorear configure.pl sets up rakudo so you don't have to
03:41 Fozo an I set it up manually it won't work for me
03:41 sorear you'll need to be more specific
03:41 sorear "it won't work" is fine if I'm standing over your shoulder
03:41 sorear but I'm not
03:42 Fozo it opens up in plain  notepad
03:42 Fozo it does nothing just pops open a txt file
03:43 TiMBuS configure.pl is a text file that perl runs
03:43 Fozo oh then how do I run it in perl
03:46 plobsing joined #perl6
03:48 sorear open a command prompt
03:48 sorear type "perl configure.pl --gen-parrot"
03:50 Fozo it did not work it said retry using the same command or the other one I tried
03:51 sorear Did you follow the directions it gave?
03:52 Fozo what instrutions I did follow the one the comand prompt said
03:53 sorear There isn't enough punctuation in that sentance for me to figure out what words are connected to what.
03:55 Fozo what instrutions? I did follow the ones that were given by the comand prompt.
03:55 Fozo **
03:57 sorear And what happened when you followed them?
03:59 Fozo nothing same message
04:00 TiMBuS whats the message exactly? that parrot can't be found?
04:02 Fozo okay hold on it is rather long
04:04 sorear http://paste.lisp.org/new/perl6
04:04 sorear use this
04:06 Fozo "to automaticly checkout(svn) and build a copy of parrot r47723 try re-running configure.pl with the '--gen-parrot' option.  or use '--parrot-config' option to specify the location of parrot_config to be used to build Rakudo Perl."
04:12 supernovus joined #perl6
04:13 sorear Fozo: what was the command you typed to get that output?
04:13 sorear perl6: say int.^parents
04:13 p6eval elf 31394: OUTPUT«Unknown rule: dotty:.^␤It needs to be added to ast_handlers.␤ at ./elf_h line 2850␤»
04:13 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Class: "&parents"␤    at /tmp/kv2lx3k5tq line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤»
04:13 p6eval ..rakudo b98d7f: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &int␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/NSTT0GKKIc␤»
04:14 Fozo perl configure.pl
04:14 Fozo and then what you recomend
04:14 sorear 22:48 <@sorear> type "perl configure.pl --gen-parrot"
04:14 sorear ah
04:14 Fozo and then
04:14 Fozo perl configure.pl --parrot-config
04:15 sorear "or" does not mean "do both"
04:15 sorear you should only have run perl configure.pl --gen-parrot
04:15 s1n joined #perl6
04:15 sorear what happened when you ran that?
04:16 TiMBuS im going to guess it cant find svn ._.
04:16 Fozo what is svn I don't think I got that
04:16 Fozo what is svn I don't think I got that
04:17 TiMBuS fperrad should bundle his toolchain as a zip
04:18 Fozo what can I have a link?
04:18 sorear google "svn"
04:18 sorear it's the first link
04:20 Fozo apache thing?
04:20 sorear yes
04:24 Fozo where is download on the site?
04:26 Fozo_ joined #perl6
04:28 JimmyZ joined #perl6
04:28 Fozo_ so where is download I did not see  one?
04:28 JimmyZ rakudo builds failed on Windows ...
04:29 supernovus http://subversion.apache.org/packages.html
04:29 Fozo joined #perl6
04:30 Fozo__ joined #perl6
04:30 Fozo__ sorry missed it agian
04:31 Fozo__ sorry missed it agian because I failed twice on my internet
04:31 supernovus Fozo: http://subversion.apache.org/packages.html
04:36 Fozo__ which package?
04:38 supernovus Fozo__: There are several different versions. Here is the CollabNet client-only release for Windows: http://www.open.collab.net/servle​ts/OCNDirector?id=CSVN1.6.11WINC
04:40 Fozo__ is this one the only one I can use?
04:45 supernovus There are many different command-line subversion clients for Windows. I picked the CollabNet one as it was on the top of the list on the Apache page. I haven't used subversion on Windows, but I do know CollabNet was the company that originally created subversion (svn) so I would assume their package would be a good choice :-)
04:46 Fozo__ okay it is just that they have a whole regrestaration process thatr I do not want to go thru
04:46 Fozo__ okay it is just that they have a whole regrestaration process thatr I do not want to go thru
04:46 sorear Please, out of respect for the other 174 people here, be concise.
04:48 supernovus Fozo__: Here's another subversion client from "slik". It does not require registration. http://www.sliksvn.com/pub/Sli​k-Subversion-1.6.11-win32.msi
04:52 Fozo__ thx but I have one
04:52 Fozo__ now what did I just install?
04:52 yinyin joined #perl6
04:54 Fozo__ okay now I have  a new error
04:55 sorear Good! That means you've made prgress.
04:56 supernovus In the current rakudo is 'constant' implemented?
05:08 sorear rakudo: constant $pi = 3.14; say $pi;
05:08 p6eval rakudo b98d7f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$pi' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/7Vyod4hBg_:11)␤»
05:08 sorear rakudo: constant pi = 3.14; say pi;
05:08 p6eval rakudo b98d7f: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &constant␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/DIvtnFvGi4␤»
05:08 supernovus well, that's the same results I'm getting
05:08 supernovus I tried different scopes too
05:08 Fozo__ for me it does not run lke 194
05:09 supernovus rakudo: our constant $pi = 3.14;
05:09 p6eval rakudo b98d7f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed our at line 11, near "constant $"␤»
05:09 supernovus rakudo: my constant pi = 3.14;
05:09 p6eval rakudo b98d7f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed my at line 11, near "constant p"␤»
05:12 Fozo__ well thanks every one bed But I am going to log, and I guess I just won't devolope for perl 6 you guys have enough staff I presume allready :(
05:13 lue We could always use more! Feel free to help in any way you can! :)
05:13 Fozo__ I would if I could but I can't
05:14 Fozo__ I really don't even have any experence with making launguages and perl in general
05:15 Fozo__ but alas
05:16 supernovus Fozo__: Not all contributors need to be core language developers. There are many different ways you could help out. I'm sure we can help you get Rakudo running. Then you'll be able to experiment with the language itself, which is the best way to start with Perl 6.
05:17 Fozo__ well i dunno cya
05:17 Fozo__ well i dunno cya
05:17 Fozo__ thank you all!
05:18 * Fozo__ goes to close the window
05:22 supernovus no paste bot atm?
05:34 sorear nope
05:35 sorear it was turned into a spam vector, so we removed it
05:35 supernovus Ah, okay. Well then: http://paste.lisp.org/+2E5R
05:37 orafu joined #perl6
05:37 Su-Shee joined #perl6
05:46 supernovus oh nice, I'm getting a lot of "Method 'key' not found for invocant of class String" errors in all sorts of places...
05:46 supernovus rakudo: say %*ENV.perl
05:46 p6eval rakudo b98d7f: OUTPUT«Method 'key' not found for invocant of class 'String'␤  in 'Any::join' at line 4315:CORE.setting␤  in 'EnumMap::perl' at line 4321:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/HlpvZrMFUM␤»
05:53 supernovus It seems some of the magic variables such as %*ENV and %*VM have a few issues yet...
05:54 supernovus rakudo: for %*ENV.kv -> $k, $v { say "$k = $v" }
05:54 p6eval rakudo b98d7f: OUTPUT«Method 'key' not found for invocant of class 'String'␤  in main program body at line 4315:CORE.setting␤»
06:13 supernovus Unrelated, but augmenting Hash appears to have some issues as well.
06:14 supernovus rakudo: use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class Hash { method has { say "CAN HAS" } }; my %h; %h.has();
06:14 p6eval rakudo b98d7f: OUTPUT«Method 'has' not found for invocant of class ''␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/DAiougOILe␤»
06:15 sorear TimToady: ping
06:41 dalek rakudo: c6a829d | moritz++ | docs/ChangeLog:
06:41 dalek rakudo: add "handles" to ChangeLog
06:41 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c​6a829d69bed073934c596680933bdef944f6d39
06:47 casan joined #perl6
06:52 Tene supernovus: I committed some fixes for %*VM today.  Can you confirm whether there are still issues with %*VM in the latest rakudo?
06:52 Tene rakudo: say %*VM.perl
06:52 p6eval rakudo b98d7f: OUTPUT«Cannot substr on a null string␤  in 'Pair::perl' at line 1␤  in <anon> at line 4321:CORE.setting␤  in 'Any::join' at line 1␤  in 'EnumMap::perl' at line 4321:CORE.setting␤  in 'Pair::perl' at line 4078:CORE.setting␤  in <anon> at line 4321:CORE.setting␤  in 'Any::join' at line
06:52 p6eval ..1␤  …
06:52 Tene Huh.
06:52 Tene rakudo: say %*VM<config>.perl
06:53 p6eval rakudo b98d7f: OUTPUT«Cannot substr on a null string␤  in 'Pair::perl' at line 1␤  in <anon> at line 4321:CORE.setting␤  in 'Any::join' at line 1␤  in 'EnumMap::perl' at line 4321:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/C1xUhPMs7k␤»
06:53 Tene rakudo: say %*VM<config><build_dir>
06:53 p6eval rakudo b98d7f: OUTPUT«/home/p6eval/rakudo/parrot␤»
06:53 Tene rakudo: say %*VM<config>.WHAT
06:53 p6eval rakudo b98d7f: OUTPUT«Hash()␤»
06:55 moritz_ rakudo: say %*VM<config>.keys.join(' ')
06:55 p6eval rakudo b98d7f: OUTPUT«mandir has_sigaction icu_dir HAS_GETTEXT osname i_signal encoding libparrot_ldflags cc_o_out has_static_linking runcore_tests HASATTRIBUTE_COLD gccversion has_extra_nci_thunks ld_debug rpath_blib clock_best make msvcversion installed pmc has_opengl i_sysexit a
06:55 p6eval ..ccwarn::src/spf_rende…
06:57 PZt joined #perl6
07:06 tadzik joined #perl6
07:34 pugssvn r31395 | sorear++ | [STDeco] Tie up a loose end from the pad->lex rename
07:36 sorear How much rule of least suprise violation would it cause if BEGIN time code ran slower than runtime code?
07:37 moritz_ you just have to sell it better
07:37 moritz_ "run time code is now much faster than BEGIN"
07:41 moritz_ hugme: add qiuhw to book
07:41 * hugme hugs qiuhw. Welcome to book!
07:42 mathw (footnote: accomplished by making BEGIN slower)
07:47 Mowah joined #perl6
07:49 * mberends just eated a kanelbulle irl :)
07:50 mathw kanelbulle?
07:50 moritz_ sounds like some swedish stuff
07:50 mberends it's a cinnamon bun, shaped like an @
07:51 moritz_ doughnutpretzel? :-)
07:53 mathw oooh
07:54 mathw we have those here sometimes
07:54 mathw lovely things
07:54 dalek book: 1126727 | (Hongwen Qiu)++ | src/subs-n-sigs.pod:
07:54 dalek book: [subs] fix typo
07:54 dalek book: Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz <moritz@faui2k3.org>
07:54 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/11​26727e03bd6cd3c5dfa1bf92605631fc9b380f
08:02 pnate joined #perl6
08:14 kensanata joined #perl6
08:16 dakkar joined #perl6
08:27 pugssvn r31396 | sorear++ | [Cursor] A more platform neutral way to recurse the parse
08:27 cygx joined #perl6
08:28 cygx moritz_: hi
08:30 thebird joined #perl6
08:31 moritz_ cygx: hi
08:31 moritz_ cygx: I saw your nopaste in the backlog... do you have a github ID?
08:33 cygx no, just a mercurial account at intuxication.org
08:33 cygx that can be remedied, though
08:33 moritz_ great
08:33 sorear mildew: say int.^methods
08:33 p6eval mildew: OUTPUT«Can't open perl script "mildew": No such file or directory␤»
08:34 moritz_ how can perl know it's a perl script if it doesn't exist? :-)
08:34 mathw Because it assumes that you won't be asking it to run something written in Lisp, I guess
08:35 cygx it's quantuum ;)
08:35 mathw Very narrow-minded of it
08:36 cygx ok - that's me: http://github.com/cygx
08:36 moritz_ hugme: add cygx to try.rakudo.org
08:36 * hugme hugs cygx. Welcome to try.rakudo.org!
08:37 moritz_ cygx: you can now  git clone http://github.com/moritz/try.rakudo.org
08:37 arnsholt mathw: Well, that's part of the problem Perl 6 aims to solve, no? ^^
08:37 moritz_ cygx: incorporate your changes, commit and push
08:37 moritz_ and profit!
08:38 mathw arnsholt: of course, there'll be no need for Lisp anymore :)
08:38 cygx moritz_: thanks
08:38 moritz_ cygx: thank you for contributing!
08:42 sdo_ joined #perl6
08:42 jnthn morning
08:43 mathw I've been here too long
08:43 moritz_ morning jnthn
08:43 mathw I'm trying to write some Perl 5 and I keep getting frustrated that I don't have gather/take
08:43 moritz_ of course there's Perl6::GatherTake
08:43 mathw It feels so *clumsy*
08:43 moritz_ (but it sucks. I'm the author, so I'm entitled to that opinion :-)
08:48 |jedai| joined #perl6
08:49 sdo joined #perl6
08:52 azawawi joined #perl6
08:52 azawawi joined #perl6
08:52 azawawi moritz_:ping
08:52 sorear azawawi!
08:52 moritz_ azawawi: pong
08:53 azawawi moritz_: re http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/​contribute-now-try.rakudo.org.html, i think we can reuse a lot of the already-working runpugs console javascript code
08:53 sorear azawawi: What should I do with a 31KB binary data file that STD needs to be able to find?
08:53 azawawi sorear: the utf8 data file?
08:53 moritz_ azawawi: wfm
08:54 sorear it's a Unicode data file
08:54 sorear not specifically utf8
08:54 sorear but yeah
08:54 Mowah joined #perl6
08:54 azawawi sorear: include it via PERL6LIB ?
08:55 azawawi sorear: one of things that i hate the most about STD is the use of the / namespace
08:55 azawawi sorear: it should be inside a good Perl6::STD or something
08:56 azawawi sorear: $PERL6LIB/data ?
08:56 sorear yeah, sounds good
08:56 azawawi moritz_: cool i'll try it
08:57 sorear it's in the root namespace because they are specced parts of Perl 6 itself
08:57 moritz_ azawawi: maybe coordinate with cygx, who also had some running js code
08:57 sorear any full Perl 6 compiler will support use STD;
08:57 sorear and Cursor is the implicit base class of all grammars
08:58 dju joined #perl6
09:00 dju joined #perl6
09:01 globalmixmaster_ joined #perl6
09:01 globalmixmaster_ hi all
09:02 globalmixmaster_ can i optimize this http://pastebin.com/UKJAhBHz
09:02 globalmixmaster_ with perl6?
09:02 moritz_ globalmixmaster_: it won't do you any good, because perl 5 is currenlty faster than all Perl 6 compilers
09:03 moritz_ globalmixmaster_: I'd use C if were you
09:03 globalmixmaster_ ok ty
09:03 globalmixmaster_ left #perl6
09:04 sorear haha
09:04 TiMBuS what,
09:05 sorear hmm.
09:06 azawawi sorear: sounds good then... one thing to watch for if we go for $PERL6LIB/data is accidentally polluting other namespaces...
09:06 sorear foo; means foo(); means &foo.(); means postcircumfix:<( )>(&foo); means &postcircumfix:<( )>.(&foo)
09:06 sorear where does the circularity saw stop?
09:06 sorear azawawi: I'm just putting it in $PERL6LIB directly
09:07 azawawi sorear: great thx
09:07 colomon TiMBuS: thanks for helping that guy last night.
09:07 TiMBuS thats ok. i'm still unsure as to how he wanted to help, but i couldnt turn him away
09:07 pugssvn r31397 | sorear++ | [Cursor] Look for Unicode bits in $PERL6LIB.  azawawi++
09:14 azert0x joined #perl6
09:16 mac joined #perl6
09:22 foodoo joined #perl6
09:23 pugssvn r31398 | sorear++ | [STDeco] Add 'make dist' target for the benefit of Syntax::Highlight::Perl6
09:25 colomon is S::H::p6 still getting updated?
09:26 sorear I should hope so
09:26 sorear azawawi all but asked me to do that
09:27 colomon sweet
09:30 mmcleric joined #perl6
09:40 moritz_ yesterday's blog post about physical modelling in Perl 6 attracked about 3k visitors
09:41 jnthn Wow!
09:41 arnsholt A grammar (NQP-rx) conundrum for your amusement:
09:41 arnsholt moritz_: Awesome!
09:41 jnthn moritz_++
09:41 colomon moritz_++
09:41 jnthn .oO( I hope not too many of them came expecting to look at pictures of the other sort of models... :-) )
09:41 arnsholt :- can be three things: an atomic term, a prefix operator and an infix operator
09:42 moritz_ jnthn: :-)
09:42 arnsholt How on earth do I get "a :- b", ":- a" and "X = :-" to parse correctly, all at the same time
09:42 arnsholt ?
09:43 moritz_ sub infix:<:-> { <sym> }
09:43 moritz_ erm, multi sub infix:sym<:-> { <sym> }
09:43 arnsholt If I kill the prefix variant I get the other two, but I really need the prefix as well
09:43 moritz_ multi sub term:sym<:-> { <sym> <EXPR>? }
09:44 moritz_ (maybe needs to constrain the precdence of what <EXPR> is allowed to match)
09:44 sorear arnsholt: you'll need to decide how :- :- :- is supposed to parse
09:44 jnthn Maybe a bit like * * * in Rakudo. ;-)
09:44 sorear * in rakudo isn't a prefix op
09:45 arnsholt sorear: I can't remember how it's supposed to go off-hand (it's Prolog FWIW)
09:45 sorear yeah, I recognize the samples
09:45 arnsholt Yeah, it's the prefix op that really makes trips me up
09:46 moritz_ it kinda messes up the predicitve parsing
09:46 jnthn No, true. Rakudo has examples of things that are prefix and infix, as well as infix and term, but not all three.
09:46 moritz_ because after a :- either a term or an infix can occur
09:46 jnthn Well
09:46 jnthn [+] can show up as any of
09:46 jnthn [+] @thingy
09:46 jnthn [+] # with nothing after it
09:46 jnthn $a [+] $b
09:47 moritz_ rakudo: say [+]
09:47 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<[ ]>, couldn't find final ']' at line 11␤»
09:47 jnthn Though we don't get the middle case right in Rakudo yet.
09:47 moritz_ jnthn: but don't parse it :-)
09:47 jnthn moritz_: Yeah, STD looks like it lies to the OPP about being a term or something. ;-)
09:47 jnthn Or something tricky.
09:47 jnthn Anyway, may be worth looking at how STD does it.
09:47 moritz_ arnsholt: I'd try parsing it as infix or term, where the term can optionally swallow up another term
09:48 arnsholt sorear: ":- :- :- ." gives me "Operator priority clash" after the first :- in SWI Prolog
09:48 arnsholt moritz_: Won't the optional EXPR after the term mess up the rest of the parse?
09:49 moritz_ arnsholt: why should it?
09:49 moritz_ you have to go looking for *something* after a :-
09:49 arnsholt Heh, true
09:49 moritz_ you can make that either a term or an infix
09:50 moritz_ term with <EXPR>?, infix with <EXPR>??
09:51 arnsholt How do those limit to term and infix?
09:52 moritz_ with <EXPR>? the first attempt will be to match an EXPR (ie new term, with optional prefixes)
09:52 moritz_ with <EXPR>?? it first tries to match nothing, so the OPP will try an infix after it, no?
09:53 arnsholt Oh, right
09:57 masak joined #perl6
09:57 masak oh hai, #perl6!
09:57 phenny masak: 20 Jun 17:45Z <sorear> tell masak declarations?  class, function, variable, you name it.  .pm6 -> .pod converter
09:57 phenny masak: 20 Jun 18:39Z <moritz_> tell masak http://nopaste.snit.ch/21416 feedback welcome
09:57 phenny masak: 20 Jun 19:03Z <moritz_> ask masak how t/hitomi/01-xml-parsing.t is supposed to work. It has a line 'use Hitomi;', but there's no Hitomi.pm to be found anywhere near...
09:58 masak moritz_: the Web.pm tests generally need some love. this is one instance of that. I don't remember the exact backstory.
09:58 moritz_ ok
09:59 moritz_ Tene++ and I also found that most routes test die with the same error (on alpha)
09:59 moritz_ I've patched them up to produce the same failures with master (in the 'ng' branch)
09:59 masak moritz_: I think t/hitomi/01-xml-parsing.t is simply bogus. an attempt to start coding with tests, and then Hitomi itself (which works to a large extent) took off in another direction.
10:00 masak hm, or there's supposed to be a lib/Hitomi.pm, but that was never committed.
10:00 masak that looks more probable, actually.
10:01 moritz_ [t/hitomi/01-xml-parsing.t] added more tests
10:01 moritz_ The last one fails. Don't know why yet.
10:01 moritz_ so it seems they ran at some point
10:01 masak yes.
10:01 masak I'll have a look at it soonish and see if I can get it to work again.
10:02 jnthn o/ masak
10:02 masak moritz_: re http://nopaste.snit.ch/21416 -- looks good. let's hope the web-challenge effect brings in many contributions. :)
10:02 masak jnthn: \o
10:02 moritz_ masak: actually it's already running, and cygx++ has contributed something already
10:03 masak oh wow.
10:03 moritz_ though not committed yet
10:03 masak I should avoid sleeping altogether, there's so much happening here.
10:03 * masak backlogs
10:03 moritz_ :-)
10:15 mathw masak: but just think how much joy you get out of knowing that when you wake up and come to #perl6, something awesome will have happened
10:15 cygx moritz_: speaking about committing - I'm new to git/github, so I'm not sure ho to go on
10:16 cygx moritz_: should I fork and commit to a clone?
10:16 moritz_ cygx: nope, commit to the repo directly
10:16 moritz_ that saves me the trouble of merging
10:17 moritz_ the forking/push to fork model is often used, but I rather hand out commit bits
10:17 cygx ok; will do after some cleanup
10:24 masak mathw: when you put it like that, is does sound rather nice...
10:26 masak phenny: tell sorear -- still not 100% sure what you're asking. perhaps best that you follow S26 to the letter until I get around to updating it to the latest discussions. in the best case, you'll also become convinced that the current way isn't optimal. :)
10:26 phenny masak: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
10:30 bbkr any idea why "Determine what C compiler and linker to use" test on --gen-parrot returns "Permission denied" for parrot/test_X ? there is only snprintf in *.c file, nothing suspicious
10:41 swaroop joined #perl6
10:42 mmcleric hi
10:42 mmcleric just sent patch about WhateverCode type
10:42 mmcleric it doesn't fix 2 + * + 3 yet, it turned out to be complicated (for me at least :) )
10:42 mmcleric and i've got a lot of stupid questions
10:44 mmcleric first, i can tag any PAST::Node object simply by using it as hash, right?
10:44 jnthn mmcleric: You can but...
10:44 jnthn ...we try and avoid doing so.
10:45 jnthn I figured that .returns('WhateverCode') would be enough.
10:45 jnthn (e.g. enough tagging)
10:45 mmcleric isn't .returns only Op's property?
10:46 jnthn I think it can go on anything, but you will only ever have Op anyway, I think.
10:46 mmcleric or even PAST::Var? i'm confused, where can i see whole list?
10:46 bbkr (parrot bug above solved. disk was mounted with nodev)
10:46 jnthn Since all blocks are wrapped.
10:46 jnthn PAST docs are at...moment..
10:46 mmcleric i'm reading pdd26_ast, it doesn't say anything about other types
10:46 mmcleric ok :)
10:46 jnthn http://docs.parrot.org/parrot/lates​t/html/docs/pdds/pdd26_ast.pod.html
10:47 jnthn oh heh, that only claims it works on PAST::Val, afaict
10:47 jnthn It's true that the code generator ignores it on everything but PAST::Val.
10:48 jnthn But I believe you can apply it to anything just for "tagging" purposes.
10:48 mmcleric oh, ok :) but it's still there, so docs are lying
10:48 jnthn Yeah
10:48 jnthn docs--
10:48 jnthn well
10:48 mmcleric ok, another question
10:48 jnthn (lying docs)--
10:48 mmcleric is it really necessary that () in expressions create new Stmts node?
10:48 mmcleric because 2 + ((((3 + *)))) will have 4 Stmts nodes, one in another
10:49 mmcleric and () doesn't cause whatever_curry to be called :)
10:49 jnthn eww
10:49 jnthn I think it may be needed though
10:49 mmcleric so i'll have to put it in circumfix:sym<( )>($/), right?
10:49 jnthn For @other-thing
10:49 jnthn Erm
10:50 jnthn That feels...weird.
10:50 jnthn But maybe we'll need to
10:50 jnthn I think maybe put something in to "pass the tag"
10:50 jnthn e.g. the .returns of the PAST::Stmts is set to whatever the .returns of the (last) expression in it is.
10:51 mmcleric yes, i thought so too (but didn't tried it yet)
10:51 jnthn But I'd prefer that whatever_curry should only be called from the one place.
10:51 jnthn Propagating .returns around the tree is just generally healthy, anyway.
10:51 jnthn We'll want to do more of that in the future, I suspect.
10:51 jnthn (In the future, when we get into doing type analysis and so on.)
10:52 mmcleric ok, good
10:53 mmcleric another thing that worries me is performance
10:53 mmcleric i understand it's only compile time hit, but still, checking for types on every operator seems wasteful
10:54 mmcleric should i worry about it?
10:54 jnthn Well, what else can we do, really?
10:54 jnthn I mean, any operator could potentially be whatever-curried.
10:54 cognominal rakudo:  class A {  method TOP { self.a(&A::b) }; method a() { self."$b"()  }; method b { say "hi" } }; A.TOP
10:54 jnthn We could try and do epic evil with a contextual that we flag if we see a Whatever
10:54 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$b' not predeclared in a (/tmp/8Ol0nAYmcn:11)␤»
10:55 mmcleric contextual is something from Grammar.pm, right?
10:55 jnthn Yeah but...let's not do that. Not now, anyway.
10:55 mmcleric ok :)
10:55 jnthn It's too...evil.
10:55 dakkar joined #perl6
10:56 cognominal rakudo:  class A {  method TOP { self.a(&A::b) }; method a($b) { self."$b"()  }; method b { say "hi" } }; A.TOP
10:56 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in can()␤  in 'A::a' at line 11:/tmp/mZUyIIQ2h5␤  in 'A::a' at line 11:/tmp/mZUyIIQ2h5␤  in 'A::TOP' at line 11:/tmp/mZUyIIQ2h5␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/mZUyIIQ2h5␤»
10:56 mmcleric i didn't know about contextual and thought about simply copypasting all expr-grammar into two versions, with and without Whatever (yes, it's even more evil)
10:56 mmcleric ok, i'll try not to think about it
11:00 mmcleric jnthn: ok, thanks. there are some things which stop me from getting working implementation, but i'll just try to read more docs, answers are probably there
11:00 cognominal I am not sure of the syntax to pass a method as a parameter and then call it :(
11:01 cognominal It seems that I need to prefix the method name by the class name to refer to it, even within the class itself
11:01 jnthn cognominal: It appears you expect the method to be in the namespace.
11:02 jnthn Or the lexpad.
11:02 jnthn It won't be unless you declare "my method ..." or "our method ..."
11:02 synth joined #perl6
11:02 jnthn cognominal: methods are has-scoped by default
11:02 jnthn mmcleric: OK, let me know if you hit any more really sticky points. :-)
11:03 mmcleric i will. it's going to busy week at my job, but maybe at nights i'll find some free time :)
11:03 mmcleric left #perl6
11:04 cognominal jnthn, what would be the correct way to write that? I test with genuine class, but I want to do it with a grammar.
11:04 cygx moritz_: I have 2 commits ready, but my git-FU is weak (more)
11:04 cygx moritz_: with my freshly installed cygwin-git, all I'm getting is `error: Cannot access URL http://github.com/moritz/try.rakudo.org.git/, return code 22`
11:09 jnthn cognominal: In above, maybe try "our method b" rather than just "method b"
11:09 jnthn cognominal: Or do "my method b" and then &b rather than &A::b
11:11 cognominal rakudo:  class A {  method TOP { self.a(&b) }; method a($b) { self."$b"()  };  our method b { say "hi" } }; A.TOP
11:11 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«hi␤»
11:11 cognominal jnthn++
11:12 egor joined #perl6
11:14 cognominal I should reread S12 to unserstand the merits of has scope for methods
11:14 jnthn cognominal: In short, it means "this method only gets entered into the methods table in the metaclass"
11:16 shade_ joined #perl6
11:16 TiMBuS cygx, are you trying to clone the repository?
11:17 cygx TiMBuS: I cloned the repository and did 2 local commits; now I'm trying to push them upstream
11:18 TiMBuS do you have access to the github repo?
11:19 cygx TiMBuS: github tells me 'This URL has Read+Write access', so I guess I have?
11:20 moritz_ cygx: the trailing slash is wrong
11:20 moritz_ edit your .git/config to remove it
11:20 TiMBuS also, that
11:20 cygx ;)
11:21 cygx I'll first look up how to fix the author information, though, so it might be a minute
11:21 moritz_ should be
11:22 moritz_ git config --global author.email 'youremail@domain.com'
11:22 moritz_ git config --global author.name 'Your Name'
11:22 cygx moritz_: I'm not confident in the unicode abilities of my setup - let's see how it goes ;)
11:23 moritz_ git itself on a clean UTF-8 environment works fine
11:25 _sri http://kraih.com/rakudo-perl6-sri.png # refined
11:28 wrac joined #perl6
11:29 TiMBuS thats pretty nice
11:29 ejs joined #perl6
11:29 _sri :)
11:30 Guest23195 joined #perl6
11:33 arnsholt Yeah, I like it too
11:33 moritz_ it's just that rakudo will likely never have a version number "1"
11:34 TiMBuS the '0.' is implicit
11:34 _sri hah
11:34 moritz_ as it looks now, the compiler releases will be numbered as they are now (#30, 2010.06, 'Kiev')
11:34 moritz_ and the distribution releases will have the 'Star' in the name
11:35 TiMBuS can we name each one after a different star
11:35 arnsholt IIRC pmichaud wants to avoid traditional version numbering altogether
11:35 marcus__ rakudo galaxy
11:35 TiMBuS super rakudo galaxy! 2
11:35 moritz_ star -> galaxy -> galxy cluster -> universe -> multiverse -> ?
11:36 TiMBuS well then 'rakudo ?' will be the rakudo 1.0
11:37 moritz_ THERE WILL BE NO RAKUDO 1.0
11:37 TiMBuS ahaha
11:39 FardadJalili joined #perl6
11:41 azawawi joined #perl6
11:44 masak has anyone ever used the `given True { ... }` idiom? it's mentioned (in an earlier form) in A04.
11:44 azawawi phenny: tell colomon Yes, S:H:P6 gets updated regularly on my spare time. I try to do that once I see enough commits on STD.pm6, see http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/AZAWAW​I/Syntax-Highlight-Perl6-0.81/Changes
11:44 phenny azawawi: I'll pass that on when colomon is around.
11:44 azawawi masak: hi there
11:44 masak azawawi! \o/
11:45 masak azawawi: long time no see.
11:45 cognominal joined #perl6
11:46 masonkramer (use IO::Logging).assuming(logfile => ".log"); is going to make for some really neat APIs
11:46 azawawi masak: I always to read backlogs but lately I have been busy a bit at work
11:57 moritz_ rakudo: for 1..Inf { .say; last }; say "alive"
11:58 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«1␤alive␤»
11:58 moritz_ wow
11:58 masak \o/
11:58 moritz_ that's new, right?
11:58 masak think so.
11:58 moritz_ rakudo used to evaluate the argument eagerly
11:58 masak rakudo: for 1..* { .say; last }; say "for loops are lazy"
11:58 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«1␤for loops are lazy␤»
11:58 moritz_ just found it in autounfudge output
12:02 takadonet morning all
12:06 masak \o
12:07 envi^home joined #perl6
12:13 cygx moritz_: git and/or cygwin positively hate me: they ignore settings, completely hang in the password prompt and don't like the github SSL certificate
12:13 cygx I'll try to setup my environment properly later taday, but for now my changes can be found at http://www.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de​/~cgaertne/try-rakudo/frontend.tar.gz
12:14 moritz_ if somebody wants a quasi-LHF to work on: write a constructor for class Match that accepts the values of $match.perl
12:14 cygx check http://www.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de​/~cgaertne/try-rakudo/frontend.tar.gz for an online version
12:14 masak rakudo: use MONKEY_TYPING; class A {}; my $a = A.new; augment class A { has $.x }; say $a.x
12:14 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«Method 'x' not found for invocant of class 'A'␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/nmU9D4bNkC␤»
12:15 moritz_ I don't have much time atm, but the link is now in the logs, and I'll get back to it if you don't manage to push the stuff
12:16 jnthn cygx: I found the msys git (outside of cygwin) works very nicely, fwiw.
12:17 colomon joined #perl6
12:17 colomon at yapc;:na!
12:17 phenny colomon: 11:44Z <azawawi> tell colomon Yes, S:H:P6 gets updated regularly on my spare time. I try to do that once I see enough commits on STD.pm6, see http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/AZAWAW​I/Syntax-Highlight-Perl6-0.81/Changes
12:17 colomon azawawi++
12:18 cygx jnthn: I've got a somewhat Frankenstein-like mix of Cygwin and MinGW going for my C development and I'm not really keen on adding MSYS to the mix
12:18 cygx but we'll see, I might reconsider
12:19 mmcleric joined #perl6
12:19 cygx or perhaps take alook at hg-git...
12:20 cygx anyway, I'm off for now
12:20 pmichaud good morning #perl6 (from yapc::na)
12:20 takadonet pmichaud: morning
12:21 masak morning!
12:21 colomon o/
12:21 moritz_ heya; how is yapc going?
12:21 colomon keynote okay so far
12:21 pmichaud just started
12:21 colomon I got kind of lost on the way here.
12:21 pmichaud not enough room in the room
12:21 moritz_ wil there be a 6y hackathon?
12:21 moritz_ *will
12:21 colomon hope so
12:21 masak not enough space in this space...
12:21 pmichaud I plan to do six-y hack-y things on Thursday
12:22 * jnthn parsed that as "6 year hackathon" :-)
12:22 moritz_ :-)
12:22 masak jnthn: that would be AWESOME.
12:22 jnthn masak: That's what I thought!
12:22 * masak checks his calendar
12:22 masak how about... 2015 to 2020?
12:23 colomon I was planing on doing six-y hack-y things Mon - Wed.  ;)
12:23 pmichaud a "6 year hackathon" is basically what I've done thus far, I guess.  :)
12:23 pmichaud I'll do six-y hack-y things Mon-Wed too, but I have presentations to prepare and give also :-|
12:23 jnthn pmichaud: Yes, but did you eat pizza every day? :-)
12:23 colomon pmichaud: right, and I have your presentations to go to.  ;)
12:23 pmichaud jnthn: aha!  Now we know why it's taken six years!
12:23 colomon also Damian's, etc.
12:23 masak pmichaud: that could be a nice presentation title: "Rakudo Perl: The Six-Year Hackathon" :)
12:24 * pmichaud changes his title slide for tomorrow's talk :)
12:24 pmichaud s/changes/creates/  :-)
12:24 masak :P
12:26 slavik "How to beat the Guinness world record for the longest hackathon."
12:27 cognominal jnthn++  # gave me the way to pass a rule as an argument to another
12:28 jnthn cognominal: I guess you're then using regex interpolation?
12:29 araujo slavik, 5 years?
12:30 slavik araujo: suggesting title for pmichaud's presentation
12:30 slavik pmichaud: what's it about anyway?
12:30 araujo :P
12:30 araujo well, still a 5 years hackathon is good idea
12:30 cognominal token begin-end(Str $str, Regex $content) { .... <content> ...  }   # jnthn,  here what I do
12:30 cognominal oops
12:30 cognominal token begin-end(Str $str, Regex $content) { .... <$content> ...  }   # jnthn,  here what I do
12:32 cognominal I am doing some stuff to generate slides that could be embedded in Pod6
12:34 masak cognominal++ # release early, release often!
12:34 pugssvn r31399 | moritz++ | [t/spec] some Rakudo unfudges
12:34 cognominal masak: I am more the anal retentive guy
12:35 masak cognominal: there's no real contradiction between the two :)
12:37 colomon TimToady: you seem to have found a power supply?
12:38 TimToady I'm using an old computer that is actually the quiz machine for my wife's quiz team
12:38 TimToady it runs Winders
12:38 colomon oh noez!
12:38 mathw aaargh no
12:39 jnthn ...it's not *that* bad. :P
12:39 jnthn Unless it runs Windows ME, in which case it *is* that bad.
12:40 moritz_ right, you can always open a ssh connection to a unixish server and access your screen session there :-)
12:40 thebird joined #perl6
12:40 PacoLinux joined #perl6
12:40 masonkramer joined #perl6
12:42 pjcj joined #perl6
12:43 bphillips joined #perl6
12:47 perlygatekeeper joined #perl6
12:49 masak it's fun reading the Apocalypses. did you know that &proceed was once known as &skip, before it was &continue ? :)
12:49 colomon did not
12:49 Intensity joined #perl6
12:49 colomon have you seen the old Perl 6 book?
12:50 rgrau joined #perl6
12:50 dakkar joined #perl6
12:50 masak only the cover.
12:50 jnthn I think I have a copy of it, but back in England.
12:51 moritz_ the perl 6 parts are in the pugs repo
12:51 moritz_ I've updated them partially, but then lost interest
12:52 pugssvn r31400 | moritz++ | [t/spec] remove an outdated range test, and unfudge another that rakudo now passes
12:53 TimToady coffee # I sincerely hope... &
12:53 masak rakudo: given 42 { say "Int" when Int }
12:53 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block at line 11, near "}"␤»
12:53 masak alpha: given 42 { say "Int" when Int }
12:53 p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Int␤»
12:53 * masak submits rakudobug
12:53 masak alpha: given 42 { say "Int" when Int; say "Num" when Num }
12:53 p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Int␤Num␤»
12:53 masak statement-modifier 'when' (by spec) doesn't break.
12:54 moritz_ right
12:54 moritz_ isn't that proceed now?
12:54 colomon joined #perl6
12:55 colomon probably no point in giving me op today, I imagine this machine will be on and off on a regular basis.  :)
12:56 masak moritz_: no, it's "succeed". as in, "now we're done with the block that bound $_".
12:56 colomon then I think I will head to the Perl 6 BOF for the rest of the morning.
13:03 masak rakudo: class MyException is Exception {}; throw MyException.new("OH ERROR")
13:03 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &throw␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/2Ed568LNIm␤»
13:04 jnthn masak: die
13:04 masak rakudo: class MyException is Exception {}; die MyException.new("OH ERROR")
13:04 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«O␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/n1AH4xBz1X␤»
13:04 * masak submits rakudobug
13:05 jnthn heh
13:05 jnthn what on earth is it meant to do there
13:05 jnthn stringify it I gues
13:05 jnthn *guess
13:05 plainhao joined #perl6
13:07 jnthn class MyException is Exception {}; die MyException.new("ERROR")
13:07 masak plainhao: 你好!
13:07 jnthn rakudo: class MyException is Exception {}; die MyException.new("ERROR")
13:07 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«E␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/fX0pY0wDN3␤»
13:07 masak :P
13:07 jnthn masak: wtf, it outputs...the first character?!
13:07 masak jnthn: somewhat LTA, no? :)
13:08 jnthn I...can totally wait to debug that. :-S
13:08 pmichaud I wonder if something is indexing into a string when it thinks it has an array.
13:09 jnthn pmichaud: oh
13:09 jnthn pmichaud: That's a good guess.
13:09 plainhao 你好 masak
13:09 * masak guessed right :)
13:09 jnthn pmichaud: That'd make it less weird.
13:09 jnthn Apart from, what is doing that. :-)
13:10 plainhao masak, i had to google that, i’m an illiterate fugee
13:10 cognominal jnthn, I think you could close perl #74110
13:10 masak plainhao: oh -- I'm just an illiterate foreigner :P
13:10 plainhao haha, it is my name, though
13:11 masak plainhao: what brings you to #perl6?
13:11 cognominal I thought I had filed a bug for lack of support for pairs as positionnals in captures, but I can't find it :(
13:12 plainhao i’m in phl.pm, currently not active
13:12 plainhao they’re active, i’m not
13:13 jnthn cognominal: You did, I'm sure
13:13 metaperl joined #perl6
13:13 masak rakudo: class MyException is Exception {}; throw MyException.new("你好 ERROR")
13:13 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &throw␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/PHAO3YGVkv␤»
13:13 masak rakudo: class MyException is Exception {}; 爹 MyException.new("你好 ERROR")
13:13 masak er.
13:13 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &爹␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/054uY96Fp0␤»
13:13 masak rakudo: class MyException is Exception {}; die MyException.new("你好 ERROR")
13:13 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«你␤  in main program body at line 11:/tmp/YXZO3VoMVX␤»
13:13 jnthn masak: You're not good at dying, are you? :-)
13:13 masak jnthn: third time's a charm.
13:13 pmichaud masak's die seems to fail
13:14 pmichaud we should warn him about that :)
13:14 * pmichaud throws out puns as quickly as he can
13:14 * jnthn hands masak more dies to try
13:14 masak dies irae, maybe.
13:14 pmichaud if you have multiple dies, do we call that "dice"?  ;-)
13:15 plainhao is anyone using psgi or plack with rakudo?
13:15 masak plainhao: there are plans to port those to Perl 6/Rakudo, but nothing concrete yet.
13:16 plainhao nice, looking forward to it
13:16 masak plainhao: for now, there's Web.pm, in an early stage of development.
13:16 plainhao thanks for the info, masak
13:16 plainhao are anyone here on forrst? i’ll follow you
13:16 plainhao *is
13:17 jnthn pmichaud: Hmmm...throwing dice ;-)
13:20 colomon huh.  did I somehow break my local proto?  :\
13:21 masak or is it just broken in general? :/
13:21 colomon I was trying to fix it....
13:22 gabiruh joined #perl6
13:23 masak does a 'try { ... }' block have any semantics over a '{ ... }' block?
13:24 JimmyZ joined #perl6
13:25 moritz_ an implicit CATCH { when True } ?
13:25 masak 卓明亮! \o/
13:25 masak moritz_: ...which does what?
13:25 JimmyZ 麦高! 晚上好
13:25 masak just absorbs all exceptions?
13:26 moritz_ right
13:26 moritz_ dunno if that's really spec
13:26 masak JimmyZ: 晚上好, 朋友.
13:26 JimmyZ 呵呵
13:26 masak moritz_: not sure that's desired behaviour.
13:26 * mathw regrets his linguistic non-awesomeness
13:27 JimmyZ BTW,rakudo builds failed on windows XP here
13:27 jnthn moritz_: I think it's spec.
13:27 jnthn JimmyZ: If it's the ops thing, just run make again.
13:28 colomon huh.  now its working again.
13:28 moritz_ heisenproto?
13:29 JimmyZ nope,  it's another thing
13:29 masak JimmyZ: if you nopaste, I can submit a rakudobug for you.
13:30 JimmyZ compile core.pm failed.
13:30 colomon moritz_: I did trivially change two unrelated lines...
13:30 colomon So, is there a portable way to create projects.state if it doesn't exist?
13:30 JimmyZ masak: I will nopsate it tomorrow
13:30 masak JimmyZ: 好了
13:30 colomon presuming shelling to touch not portable...
13:33 colomon oooo, [particle] is in the room...
13:33 * colomon is a bit freaked to have other irc-perl-people around in real life...
13:34 plainhao you at yapc, colomon?
13:35 colomon yes.
13:36 colomon note to the world:  if you're trying to make sure a file exists, checking to see if it exists and overwriting it if it *does* is a bad plan.
13:36 gbacon joined #perl6
13:36 colomon if $filename !~~ :e {         say "Hello, $filename!";         my $fh = open($filename, :w);         $fh.close;     }
13:37 colomon masak, moritz_, does that look reasonable to you guys?
13:37 colomon (debug say now removed)
13:40 colomon seems to work, so pushed.  ;)
13:42 colomon so, I installed Math-Model, and proto totally didn't install the deps.
13:42 colomon :\
13:43 masak colomon: I'm lacking context to your question.
13:43 colomon but all my changes from yesterday are now pushed
13:43 masak what file?
13:43 colomon projects.state
13:43 colomon but in general, that block of code should work for any file, no?
13:44 colomon going to go looking for the Perl6 room in a moment.
13:44 masak colomon: it's syntactically correct, if that's what you're asking.
13:45 colomon does it make sense?
13:45 colomon I mean, I don't think run "touch $filename" is portable...
13:45 colomon It seems to work on OS X
13:45 masak I don't see the connection between 'touch' and your code.
13:46 colomon my $fh = open($filename, :w);         $fh.close;
13:46 masak oh.
13:46 colomon that's the same as touch on an empty file.
13:46 colomon or so I hope.
13:46 masak I guess.
13:46 masak it should be, yes.
13:47 jnthn I forget if :a creates a file if it's not there or expects it to already exist
13:47 jnthn If the first, then you can save the :e check
13:47 colomon gotta move, back soon
13:48 arnsholt jnthn: fopen(3) says both "a+" and "a" creates the file if it doesn't exist
13:49 arnsholt So I'd guess that :a should create it
13:49 masak is :a implemented, though?
13:49 arnsholt That's an entirely different question =)
13:49 masak seems it is \o/
13:50 jnthn rakudo: say &open.signature
13:50 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«Signature()<0x3b19fa0>␤»
13:50 masak I tried locally, and it worked.
13:50 jnthn rakudo: say &open.signature.perl
13:50 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«:(Any $filename, Any :r($r), Any :w($w), Any :a($a))␤»
13:50 jnthn \o/
13:50 jnthn rakudo++
13:53 wallberg joined #perl6
13:54 masak wallberg: \o
13:54 wallberg hi :-)
13:56 colomon joined #perl6
13:56 colomon back
13:58 colomon and now at the Parrot/Perl 6 BOF
13:58 colomon masak: so, how soon will pls be up?
13:59 colomon should I be mucking with further proto debugging?
13:59 patspam joined #perl6
13:59 masak colomon: I'm one proof-of-concept away from showing how to Actually Install things.
13:59 FardadJalili joined #perl6
13:59 masak colomon: but my tuits are tied up in strange and unpredictable ways.
14:00 pmichaud is there anyone at the Parrot/P6 BOF?
14:00 am0c joined #perl6
14:01 colomon yes
14:01 colomon me, Coke, and another
14:03 bbkr rakudo: say "1"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~1
14:03 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«1␤»
14:04 masak bbkr: parses as "1" ~~ ~(~(~(1))) -- but with more prefix:<~>
14:04 moritz_ std: say "1"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~1
14:04 p6eval std 31400: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value $bad in concatenation (.) or string at STD.pm line 62712.␤[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix  instead at /tmp/Q3ZxIjnFZG line 1:␤------> [32msay
14:04 p6eval .."1"~~~~[33m⏏[31m~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[0m␤…
14:04 masak stdbug!
14:04 * [Coke] is in the yapc BOF room.
14:05 bbkr masak: see, STD not parses it
14:05 masak it should, IMO.
14:05 jnthn I'm surprised STD doesn't parse it too.
14:05 jnthn It's evil but...
14:05 jnthn :-)
14:05 bbkr however IMO it should be parsed as you said: ~~ ~(~(...))
14:05 bbkr report?
14:07 bbkr reported
14:07 colomon "Math-Model has no dependencies. " :\
14:07 colomon bbkr++
14:07 masak bbkr: it's not a rakudobug, but fine :)
14:07 colomon it's a STDbug!
14:08 moritz_ it has some depencies
14:08 colomon gotta keep TimToady honest.  ;)
14:10 jnthn reported as...rakudobug? :/
14:10 jnthn We have enough actual ones.
14:10 jnthn :-)
14:11 colomon I suspect we have a somewhat lazy infinite list of actual ones.  ;)
14:12 jnthn True ;-)
14:14 clintongormley joined #perl6
14:14 pmichaud (from schwern++ 's "How to write bug reports" talk)    Why does "report perl 6 bug" on Google not go anywhere useful?
14:15 pmichaud (and is there anything we could do about it?)
14:15 [Coke] because no one has any good links? add one to rakudo. =-)
14:15 pmichaud "rakudo bugs" goes somewhere useful
14:15 pmichaud "report rakudo bugs" doesn't
14:16 pmichaud right now "perl 6 bug" goes to camelia
14:16 jnthn lol
14:17 [Coke] is rakudo.org in git or a cms, or...?
14:17 pmichaud cms
14:17 pmichaud and the page is misnamed, imo
14:17 pmichaud right now it says "developer's guide"   but describes how to submit a bug
14:17 pmichaud we should probably rename it to "how to report a rakudo / perl 6 bug"
14:18 jnthn fwiw, "perl 6 bug" for me when googled has rt.perl.org as the top hit
14:18 pmichaud for me it's www.perl6.org
14:18 pmichaud oh, wait
14:18 pmichaud I see it
14:18 pmichaud yes, RT is the top thing
14:18 jnthn the rt.perl.org page is not exactly helpful though.
14:19 jnthn doesn't mention rakudobug at all
14:19 [Coke] that we can ping ask and robrt on.
14:20 jnthn schwern++ for noticing, anyways.
14:20 pmichaud but if I were looking to submit a bug, the RT hit from Google isn't immediately obvious (i.e., I didnt even see it).  That might be a good thing though, since RT *isn't* the interface to use to submit a bug report
14:20 jnthn Trouble is that "I want to report a bug in Perl 6" is...a tad unspecific. :-)
14:20 pmichaud schwern++ is talking about bug tracking in general, I just said "gee, I wonder how people would find our bug tracker"
14:21 colomon it's a good thought.
14:21 pmichaud it's okay if it's unspecific, that's kinda the point
14:21 jnthn We could do with a page that ranks well for "report Perl 6 bug" that explains things.
14:21 pmichaud right
14:21 pmichaud we should probably switch the page on rakudo.org to rank better for "Perl 6 bug"
14:21 jnthn That also.
14:22 pmichaud (and rt.perl.org isn't solely for rakudo bugs :)
14:22 bbkr I miss also short info how to commit tests to pugs repo. there is no PUGS repo URL on Rakudo's "Developer's Guide", and no command line example how to run test with fudging
14:22 moritz_ that example is in the README only
14:22 pmichaud bbkr: could you draft a document (or a patch to an existing document)?  That could probably go on perl6.org, too.
14:24 pmichaud bbkr: (or otherwise suggest where we can improve this)
14:24 moritz_ an overview document for the test suite would be awesome
14:24 pmichaud we probably need to recognize that people filing bug reports are often not rakudo developers
14:24 pmichaud (i.e, they're people using rakudo, not people develpoing rakudo)
14:27 [Coke] q
14:27 colomon does ack skip files in directories named lib?
14:27 [Coke] %^$#@ mini keyboard!
14:27 moritz_ colomon: nope
14:27 colomon yes, but think how easy it is to carry around your... errr... is netbook the proper term?
14:28 moritz_ colomon: but unless -a is given, only files with known extensions are searched
14:28 colomon ah, so the .pm6 is the problem.
14:28 moritz_ aye
14:29 moritz_ need to convince alester to include .pm6 for the next release
14:29 macdaddy joined #perl6
14:29 * pmichaud submits rakudobug about rakudobugs
14:29 * masak .oO( [meta #72593] )
14:30 bbkr pmichaud: i'm not familiar with maintainig test suite. but my idea for improvment is simple: there can be a switch '--get-pugs-tests' that would checkout test suite from Pugs SVN in place of those delivered with monthly build. this way developers could commit right to rakudo-version/t/spec without manual fetching tests from Pugs repo.
14:30 pmichaud (looking)
14:30 pmichaud (no ticket 72593)
14:30 [Coke] (hai, netbook)
14:30 masak pmichaud: sorry, didn't mean to send you off looking. just imagined a meta-RT.
14:31 pmichaud ahhhh
14:31 masak ours is named 'perl', IIRC.
14:31 * pmichaud is lost
14:31 masak every RT instance has a name. the name of the one on rt.perl.org is 'perl'.
14:31 pmichaud yes, I know that
14:32 masak :)
14:32 pmichaud I'm not sure what you're getting at
14:32 pmichaud (I'm probably distracted)
14:32 moritz_ just forget it :-)
14:32 mmcleric joined #perl6
14:32 masak yes. never mind.
14:32 * masak tweaks his sillyometer a bit
14:33 cygx joined #perl6
14:33 cygx moritz_: just successfully pushed my changes
14:33 moritz_ cygx++
14:34 kensanata joined #perl6
14:34 am0c joined #perl6
14:35 cygx btw: the link to the online version was borked - that should have read http://www.informatik.uni-frankfurt​.de/~cgaertne/try-rakudo/frontend/
14:36 masak moritz_: no, I think it takes a CATCH block to clear the exception. that block might be empty though -- but a try block seems to have the exact same semantics as a normal block.
14:36 masak I'm willing to be proven wrong with a spec reference, though.
14:36 colomon hey, the parrot/perl6 BOF room has a microphone and presentation screen.  very nice
14:36 colomon so, ack's source is easy enough to hack to add .pm6!
14:37 masak moritz_: oh wait. I had not read the Apocalypse far enough. it even mentions it here try { ... } =:= try { ... CATCH { default {} } }. so, never mind.
14:40 mmcleric is it a known issue that email to rakudobug@perl.org can get lost?
14:40 tadzik joined #perl6
14:40 mmcleric i've sent patch several hours ago and still don't see it  on rt.perl.org
14:41 colomon mmcleric: it's certainly a known issue that it is slow.  :)
14:41 colomon what's your patch for?
14:41 masak but that's p6c that's slow, right? not RT.
14:41 mmcleric Subject: [PATCH] WhateverCode type implemented
14:41 colomon masak: errr... you're the expert.
14:41 masak usually my RT tickets go in in less than a minute.
14:42 colomon mmcleric: you got it already?!
14:42 masak and are visible on rt.perl.org
14:42 colomon \o/
14:42 mmcleric no
14:42 mmcleric it was just WhateverCode type
14:42 colomon ah
14:42 mmcleric but it fixes two skipped tests
14:42 colomon cool.
14:43 colomon masak: you've got RT-fu, can you see his patch in there?
14:43 masak colomon: I'll search for it.
14:44 masak nope. if that's the name of it, it's not in there.
14:44 mmcleric i can simply send pull request
14:44 mmcleric just did it
14:44 colomon mmcleric++
14:45 jnthn mmcleric: Спасибо, I'll glance over the patch a bit later on. :-)
14:46 mmcleric ok :) back to work
14:48 colomon jnthn: it's in his whatever code branch.  :)
14:48 * colomon would pull it, but is not particularly qualified in that area....
14:49 * colomon is alone in the Perl 6 BOF room now...
14:50 jnthn colomon: Yeah, I'd like to give it a look over first.
14:51 colomon jnthn: right, I will certainly defer to you on this one.
14:52 colomon ooo, someone just peaked in the window.
14:52 Woody2143 joined #perl6
14:52 colomon okay, enough fruitless mucking about with proto.
14:53 colomon time to destroy 25% of Perl 6's test suite.
14:53 pmichaud since we're currently passing 83% of the suite, if you can destroy only tests that we aren't currently passing then we'll be passing 108% of the suite :)
14:55 colomon unfortunately, I plan on only destroying tests we already pass.  :(
14:55 pmichaud I think that's called a "regression"  :)
14:56 colomon oh bother, my script for generating the trig tests gets a Null PMC in master.  :(
14:58 Kodi joined #perl6
14:58 macdaddy joined #perl6
14:58 arnsholt Bah. Term, prefix op, infix op; pick two
15:00 Kodi Do you think "2, -4, 6 ...^ -32" should yield "2, -4, 6, -16" or "2, -4, 6, -16, 32"? S03 seems to imply the former, but I'd think the latter would be more useful.
15:01 Kodi And by "6", I mean "8". Heh.
15:01 pmichaud iiuc, it should yield the latter, even per spec
15:01 pmichaud perhaps I'm missing something.
15:02 rv2733 joined #perl6
15:02 masak Kodi: I think it's the former. but ...^ isn't implemented yet.
15:03 pmichaud note that "up to" will mean something different here
15:03 Kodi Well, S03 says that ...^ "excludes the limit if it happens to match exactly". So it depends on how you interpret "exactly".
15:03 pmichaud 32 doesn't match exactly, so it'll be in the list.
15:03 masak oh.
15:03 * colomon is mystified by that series
15:03 pmichaud and the next value generated will be the one that is beyond the series
15:03 * masak retracts his statement
15:03 colomon oh, 8
15:04 colomon pmichaud++ is right
15:04 masak aye.
15:04 * colomon hopes he can resist being distracted by ...^ long enough to finish his spectest 2.5 x decimation.
15:05 Kodi Hm, yes. I mixed up which seemed to specified and which was my opinion.
15:06 masak :)
15:06 colomon I almost implemented ...^ the other day by doing ... and then grepping to filter out the limit value.
15:06 colomon but I decided that was kind of evil.
15:07 pmichaud colomon: it's actually pretty easy, afaict
15:07 pmichaud you return an element if it's not beyond the end
15:07 pmichaud otherwise, you return an element if it is the end and if the ^ wasn't specified
15:08 pmichaud otherwise, the series ends
15:08 pmichaud (with no element)
15:08 colomon pmichaud: but that requires a bit of a refactor.
15:08 pmichaud I suggest the refactor, then :-)
15:08 colomon not saying it's not the right way to do it, just the the grep version was a one-liner.
15:09 alester joined #perl6
15:09 colomon and the grep version would probably work well enough that no one was likely to notice until I got around to doing the refactor.  ;)
15:11 literal does code like this compile in Perl 6? http://paste.scsys.co.uk/45057
15:11 pmichaud as long as it doesn't eventually lead down a blind development trail (i.e., encouraging bad code practice), I'm okay with anything that works
15:11 literal I had always thought thought the $f would be local to the first if condition in Perl 5, but I was wrong
15:11 pmichaud in Perl 6, the my is local to the curlies (which are sometimes implied)
15:12 Kodi left #perl6
15:12 pmichaud in this case, the scope of $f is from the if statement to the end of the code
15:12 masak literal: it works in Perl 6.
15:12 masak what pmichaud said.
15:12 literal so the elsif ($f) would not compile?
15:12 masak if you want to make $f local to the if block, use -> $f
15:12 masak literal: here it would.
15:12 literal ok
15:13 pmichaud to the end of the code, not the end of the if block (or if statement)
15:13 masak literal: the variable ends up belonging to its innermost surrounding block. which in this case is the whole program.
15:13 pmichaud what masak++ said.  :)
15:13 literal well, not in Perl 5
15:14 literal $f is not accessible after these conditionals
15:14 pmichaud in Perl 6 we try to not have magic boundaries for declared symbols
15:14 masak Perl 6 has fewer exceptions of that kind.
15:16 pugssvn r31401 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Get the trig test generation script working under current Rakudo.
15:16 colomon hey, very easy to get the trig test generator working again.  Rakudo++
15:17 pmichaud so, since I still have 100 minutes to go.... anything in particular people want to see from my NQP talk?
15:18 PerlJam pmichaud: live streaming or video online  ;)
15:18 jnthn ;)
15:18 pmichaud I could turn on the webcam on my laptop, you'd probably see me come in and out of the video at times :)
15:19 pmichaud I really ought to find a way to capture my presentations locally onto my computer, though.
15:19 colomon I guess I could video skype it, if I can find a power outlet.
15:19 pmichaud even if I'm not in the picture, audio capture + video capture while I'm giving the presentation would work out.
15:19 PerlJam if you had another webcam, you could capture audience response too
15:19 pmichaud I do have another webcam, but left it at home.
15:19 colomon though that would definitely cut down on my ability to hack during it.  ;)
15:20 pmichaud I'm thinking I might include my additional webcam in my travel supplies.  There have been two times now where it might've been useful.
15:23 ash__ joined #perl6
15:23 pmichaud and since conferences have been historically unreliable about posting videos of my talks, maybe I should just treat it as a live screencast and record it locally myself.
15:23 colomon someone just peeked in the door's window again
15:23 PerlJam pmichaud++
15:24 PerlJam now convince everyone else to do that too (or make it easy for them to do so)
15:24 pmichaud otoh, perhaps there's a good reason the conferences haven't posted my talks :-)
15:24 PerlJam especially at a YAPC
15:24 pmichaud yeah, I may work on that a bit tonight.  It would be very useful for my Rakudo talk tomorrow
15:24 colomon ah, but they're here to see the pictures on the wall.
15:27 ash__ i have been hearing a lot of buzz about perl6 recently, keep up the good work guys
15:27 colomon rakudo: say ((1, 2, 3) xx *).munch(10)
15:27 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«123123123123123123123123123123␤»
15:28 colomon rakudo: say ((1, 2, 3) xx *).flat.munch(10)
15:28 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«1231231231␤»
15:28 colomon oooh, groovy
15:28 colomon thanks, ash__
15:28 colomon rakudo: my $a = ((1, 2, 3) xx *).flat; say $a.munch(10)
15:28 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«1231231231␤»
15:29 colomon rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 3; my $a = (@a xx *).flat; say $a.munch(10)
15:29 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«1231231231␤»
15:33 Ross joined #perl6
15:35 pmichaud hmmm, I might have something that will work.  I'll run it when I give my presentation and see how it goes.
15:37 pmichaud rakudo: (1..28).pick
15:37 p6eval rakudo c6a829:  ( no output )
15:37 pmichaud rakudo: say (1..28).pick
15:37 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«21␤»
15:37 snearch joined #perl6
15:39 m6locks rakudo: say (1..28).pick
15:39 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«8␤»
15:42 ash__ rakudo: say ((1, 2, 3) xx *).pick;
15:42 p6eval rakudo c6a829:  ( no output )
15:43 ash__ rakudo: say ((1, 2, 3) xx *).munch(10).pick
15:43 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«1␤»
15:43 JimmyZ joined #perl6
15:43 colomon hmm, so pick flattens.
15:43 ash__ does .pick flatten?
15:43 ash__ ah, thought so, just wondering
15:44 colomon rakudo: say ((1, 2, 3) xx *).munch(10)[0]
15:44 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«1␤»
15:44 colomon rakudo: say ((1, 2, 3) xx *).munch(10)
15:44 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«123123123123123123123123123123␤»
15:44 JimmyZ rakudo: say (1..*).pick
15:44 ash__ rakudo: say ((1, 2), (3, 4)).pick
15:44 p6eval rakudo c6a829:  ( no output )
15:44 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«2␤»
15:44 colomon JimmyZ: (1..*).pick definitely does not work.
15:45 justatheory joined #perl6
15:45 JimmyZ Will it work in the further?
15:46 colomon JimmyZ: doubt it greatly
15:46 ash__ going to infinity is hard
15:46 colomon what would it even mean?
15:46 ash__ pick a number between 1 and infinity?
15:47 colomon ash__: yes, but how?  you can't make the list of things to pick from so you get an even distribution.
15:47 colomon and the average result is larger than your computer's main memory.
15:48 ash__ yeah, i don't think it's possible
15:48 ash__ is there a way to check the upper bound of a range?
15:48 ash__ maybe .pick (and some other functions too?) should check the upper bound of the range to see if its valid
15:48 ash__ and if its not, throw a runtime error
15:49 ash__ saying its out of range or out of bounds or is infinity, or something?
15:49 arnsholt NQP-rx doesn't support look-behind yet?
15:50 colomon ash__: that would require making a special case of all those methods for Range.
15:50 colomon right now, pick doesn't know or care whether it's getting 1..*, 1...*, or some array you've been carefully seeding.
15:51 jaffa4 joined #perl6
15:52 ash__ colomon: is that bad though? it could help prevent things like (1..*).pick; since if you do that currently it just sits in an infinite loop and eventually runs out of memory
15:52 ash__ i'd rather have stuff in the core libraries throw an exception than go into infinite loops, but maybe thats me personally
15:53 masak JimmyZ: it's not possible to randomly pick a natural number, giving all the natural numbers equal probability.
15:53 masak JimmyZ: loosely put, the objection can always be "that's a *really* small number, why didn't you pick a bigger one?"
15:55 colomon ash__: I agree about the exceptions, but the problem is that in general, it's very difficult to know when a loop is infinite.  Range is just a special case where it's obvious, and it's the only such case I can think of at the moment.
15:57 * colomon is now dreaming of a .finite-list method that throws an exception if it knows it is infinite....
15:58 masak colomon: just check whether .elems == Inf :P
15:58 PerlJam colomon: or doesn't know that it's finite?  (i.e. it's finite-ness is indeterminant)
15:59 colomon PerlJam: probably the majority of non-array lists won't know if they are finite.
16:00 skangas` joined #perl6
16:00 * colomon should have been thinking about lunch rather than trig hacking....
16:02 ash__ rakudo: my $a = method { fail 'Bad Max Range' if @.max == Inf; my @l = @.list.Seq; @l[floor(@l.elems.rand)]; }; say (1..*).$a();
16:02 p6eval rakudo c6a829:  ( no output )
16:02 ash__ hm, well, that works locally
16:02 ash__ its a relatively minor change to .pick (the one with no arguments)
16:04 tadzik joined #perl6
16:05 skids joined #perl6
16:11 meppl joined #perl6
16:19 PerlJam Two logos from sri: http://kraih.com/perl5-camelia-sri.png   http://kraih.com/perl6-camelia-sri.png
16:20 PerlJam melding p5 with p6 in the logo department.
16:22 Mowah joined #perl6
16:26 ash__ PerlJam neat logos
16:27 PerlJam yeah, I thought so too
16:27 PerlJam (they're sebastian's, not mine)
16:28 ash__ still neat, wasn't perl5's logo the camel?
16:28 Su-Shee *shiver* yes. ;) or onions.
16:29 _sri the camel is oreillys logo
16:29 avar Perl 5 never really had a logo, just the camel book logo
16:29 PerlJam Padre is already using a pretty blue butterfly.  We might be able to switch "Perl's logo" to that easily
16:30 PerlJam (to *some* sort of butterfly anyway)
16:30 colomon joined #perl6
16:30 ash__ why was it an onion?
16:30 * colomon now has a Rakudo * t-shirt!
16:31 PerlJam ash__: Because ogres are like onions  :)
16:31 ash__ lol
16:31 ash__ they have many layers?
16:31 tadzik I thought networks are like onions
16:31 ash__ i like cakes better, they have layers, and frosting
16:32 ash__ i think PerlJam is quoting Shrek
16:32 tadzik yeah, I know that
16:32 ashleydev joined #perl6
16:33 ash__ there are a number of � in the perl site, i wonder if anyone else ever notices them
16:33 diakopter I do
16:34 ashleydev_ joined #perl6
16:34 PerlJam ash__: where?
16:34 ash__ http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl_trademark the footer on that page for one
16:35 PerlJam ah, indeed
16:35 diakopter both firefox & Chrome on windows have the ?
16:35 PerlJam I'd never noticed before
16:37 ashleydev joined #perl6
16:38 ashleydev joined #perl6
16:42 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
16:47 * colomon is in the room with pmichaud, but is letting him prep for his talk rather than introducing himself.
16:47 b_jonas joined #perl6
16:48 b_jonas left #perl6
16:53 azert0x joined #perl6
16:54 azert0x joined #perl6
16:56 colomon the daisy chain of power strips in front of me probably breaks some fire codes....
16:57 ash__ colomon: ssshh, its not an issue if nothing happens :P
17:01 colomon but I'm closest to the wall!  if it goes up in flames, I'm going to have to vault over tables to escape!
17:02 colomon the talk is starting...
17:03 Su-Shee PerlJam: you're texan, right?
17:05 PerlJam Su-Shee: yes-ish
17:06 Su-Shee PerlJam: how much heat and spice is considered a good level in chili con carne? as hot as you can or more balanced?
17:07 cdarroch joined #perl6
17:07 cdarroch joined #perl6
17:07 PerlJam Su-Shee: I can only speak for myself.  I like it just spicy enough to warm you up, but not so spicy that it has you reaching for something cold to drink every few minutes.
17:08 PerlJam That's how I like my cajun food too.
17:08 patspam joined #perl6
17:08 PerlJam (when I eat spicy cajun food)
17:08 * Su-Shee cooked the first chili con carne (after research) yesterday and I'm not sure about the hotness.
17:09 Su-Shee PerlJam: is that above or below a good thai hotness level? ;)
17:10 PerlJam Su-Shee: slightly below  :)
17:10 PerlJam Su-Shee: what did you put in it?
17:10 Su-Shee PerlJam: I followed roughly this recipe: http://tasteinvader.com/20​10/02/01/texas-five-chili/
17:11 Su-Shee PerlJam: but I took fresh tomatoes.
17:11 lue ohai
17:11 PerlJam heh.  I like Rule 3.  That's hotly debated in Texas
17:12 PerlJam Su-Shee: you didn't roast the tomatoes?
17:12 Su-Shee PerlJam: I usally made it with beans, fresh peppers, fresh corn and ground meat, but I've wanted to try this variation
17:13 Su-Shee PerlJam: no, they were italian overly ripe tomatoes, perfectly for cooking.
17:13 Su-Shee the beef was from a german cow. ;)
17:15 PerlJam Su-Shee: If yours looked anything like those pictures it must have been good whether hot or not-so-hot
17:15 colomon this is a great talk so far!
17:15 Su-Shee PerlJam: it was very good - but what can go wrong if you're slowly cooking nice things in the oven? :)
17:15 PerlJam indeed
17:16 Su-Shee colomon: anything you don't know yet or plenty of fans cheering :)
17:16 Su-Shee PerlJam: I was very pleasantly surprised by the taste of the different chilis I got.
17:17 meteorjay joined #perl6
17:17 adey joined #perl6
17:18 * PerlJam wonders if he can convince his wife to make this dish for supper tonight
17:18 colomon Su-Shee: current NQP is more powerful than I knew.
17:18 colomon also, pmichaud is a great speaker, which I had somehow not expected
17:19 sorear hello #perl6
17:19 phenny sorear: 10:26Z <masak> tell sorear -- still not 100% sure what you're asking. perhaps best that you follow S26 to the letter until I get around to updating it to the latest discussions. in the best case, you'll also become convinced that the current way isn't optimal. :)
17:19 PerlJam colomon: what did you expect?
17:19 kensanata All this talk about chili is making me hungry again and I just ate Marillenknödel.
17:19 colomon PerlJam: kind of more academic, I guess.
17:19 ash__ colomon: pmichaud was a professor, wasn't he? I think he probably did a bit of lecturing in his time
17:20 colomon ash__: he's probably better than 80% of the professors I had.
17:20 PerlJam colomon: ah, so the knowledge that he was a professor colored your imagination in a negative way
17:20 colomon PerlJam: yes.
17:20 ash__ colomon: true, i have only 2 or 3 professors that can really put together a good presentation, the rest are average
17:20 adey left #perl6
17:21 meteorjay joined #perl6
17:21 lue I don't hear anything [ then again, I'm not actually there :) ]
17:22 colomon also, I had no idea protoregexes were developed that late in the p6 process.  (2008)
17:23 Su-Shee protoregexes veloceraptor.
17:23 Su-Shee kensanata: are you the emacs-wiki guy?
17:25 huf joined #perl6
17:25 hejki joined #perl6
17:25 dual joined #perl6
17:26 colomon also have just learned I want to avoid hacking NQP if possible.  ;)
17:26 Su-Shee colomon: if that really was the intension of the talk.. :)
17:26 PerlJam sometimes hacking NQP is way easier than hacking Rakudo
17:27 PerlJam *and* hacking NQP might just make whatever it is available to Rakudo  :)
17:27 colomon Su-Shee: now I know more about programming *in* NQP, and want to avoid changing NQP itself.  :)
17:28 * Su-Shee knows nothing about nqp.
17:28 PerlJam Su-Shee: sure you do!  You know it's "not quite perl"  :)
17:28 Su-Shee well besides that. :)
17:29 Su-Shee I totally lost track what is what. I remember pugs is haskell, rakudo is parrot, parrot is beneath, diakopter made sprixel which is now c#.. ;)
17:30 arnsholt NQP is pretty much a convenience interface for Parrot's assembly language
17:31 arnsholt (And oh, how it's more convenient than PIR =)
17:32 Su-Shee I looked into pugs a week ago and besides that I don't understand anything, it looked very readable.
17:34 arnsholt It's Haskell, I'm not sure there's more than a handful of people understand it =)
17:36 PerlJam I don't know ... Perl 6 seems to borrow many haskellian ideas, so if you grok Perl 6, you can grok Haskell modulo  the syntactic weirdness.
17:37 Su-Shee I just looked into the code; I liked pugs.
17:43 arnsholt PerlJam: Perl (both of 'em) have a lot of Lisp in them as well
17:43 arnsholt Just with nicer syntax =D
17:44 Su-Shee actually I found haskell quite nice to look at.
17:44 PerlJam Haskell is certainly nicer to look at than scheme or lisp  :)
17:45 Su-Shee well those are at least easy to type :)
17:47 PerlJam I'll probably get the quote wrong, but Larry once said something like "Lisp has all of the visual appeal of oatmeal with fingernail clippings" and that about sums it up  :-)
17:47 ash__ do other multi-dispatch languages (like lisp) have similar dispatch mechanisms as perl6's?
17:47 cognominal Also, with  may national keyboards you need to shift your way to parentheses
17:49 cognominal *many
17:50 ash__ oh god... http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/blob/ma​ster/src/jvm/clojure/lang/MultiFn.java#L162 to line 300 ish, i hate when i find that in code
17:51 PerlJam wow
17:51 ash__ ruby does that too
17:51 ash__ but they only do 15 params
17:51 ash__ not 20
17:52 PerlJam that's something for thedailywtf.com though
17:53 ash__ i can understand why they do it, but at the same time, you'd think they could use a stack to push params between functions
17:53 ash__ (like parrot does)
17:53 ashleydev joined #perl6
17:54 arnsholt ash__: Well, if they want to support Java 1.4 (IIRC) they have to do it that way
17:54 arnsholt Varargs are 1.5 I think
17:54 ash__ joined #perl6
17:55 patspam joined #perl6
17:57 ash__ arnsholt: but you could have an object that holds the params, like an array instead of doing it that way
17:58 ash__ if its a speed thing, you could still use the array for >20 items, and have the hand crafted versions for < 20
17:59 arnsholt That's true =)
18:01 ash__ granted, if you have that many parameters you might want to check if the function is still doing something useful, but still...
18:03 colomon joined #perl6
18:03 colomon back in BOF room
18:10 awwaiid will the REPL in Rakudo* keep lexicals accross lines?
18:12 colomon awwaiid: someday it will
18:13 colomon hopefully someday soon.
18:13 Ross joined #perl6
18:14 awwaiid lovely!
18:19 colomon I guess what I should say is that it is a goal for R* to have better lexicals in the REPL.
18:20 ShaneC joined #perl6
18:20 sorear lexicals in the REPL are very much within reach
18:20 sorear NQP-rx has them
18:34 Tene re bug reporting, whiteknight (iirc) had an awkward time trying to figure out how to submit a patch to rakudo recently; he did find rt, but gave up on figuring out the RT interface to submit a ticket.
18:34 * Tene still backlogging
18:35 lue Last I checked, you can only email the bug.
18:35 lue there is no web interface.
18:36 Tene masonkramer: try {} has a default CATCH { $!.handled = True } oslt, but ONLY if the block passed to try has zero other handlers already in it.
18:36 Tene oh, ENOMASAK
18:36 Tene backlogging is weird. :)
18:47 ejs joined #perl6
18:51 patspam joined #perl6
18:55 colomon My trig test thinning war is getting a bit crazy.
18:56 colomon I may end up with the same number of tests but twice as many different things tested.
18:59 Tene And I see he figured it out anyway.
18:59 mmcleric joined #perl6
19:01 ashleydev joined #perl6
19:05 pmichaud well, my screen capture of my talk seems to have worked great, but audio capture looks like it was a fail
19:06 cono joined #perl6
19:07 colomon pmichaud: with any luck the conference's video's audio will be better.
19:07 pmichaud colomon: agreed, but my experience at yapc's past is that the videos never get posted.
19:08 colomon we'll just need to cleverly liberate it from them, then!  ;)
19:08 TimToady \o/ my new power supply worketh!
19:08 pmichaud \o/
19:08 colomon \o/
19:09 colomon crap, got so busy hacking on trig tests I forgot that chromatic's talk was beginning soon.  :(
19:10 patrickas joined #perl6
19:11 colomon that's as in, ten minutes ago.
19:14 ash__ joined #perl6
19:15 _sri TimToady: please take a look at my interpretation of camelia :) http://kraih.com/perl6-camelia-sri.png
19:15 colomon lovely!
19:15 ispeak_ joined #perl6
19:16 _sri there's also a matching perl 5 one (transitioning to a 6), http://kraih.com/perl5-camelia-sri.png
19:16 ispeak_ left #perl6
19:16 pugssvn r31402 | colomon++ | [t/spec] Partial update to trig test generating code to be smarter.
19:19 _sri TimToady: just poke me if you like them, i'll finish and release them under an open license then
19:20 rokoteko left #perl6
19:27 pmichaud _sri: just a note that we don't have a "Rakudo 1.0" in the works.
19:28 _sri pmichaud: that part was just an example, i also have a * variant :)
19:28 colomon TimToady, pmichaud: where are you guys?  I should probably come be social rather than continuing to hack away at trig tests.
19:28 pmichaud I'm in chromatic++'s talk, back row.
19:29 * TimToady ~~ s/back/front/
19:29 TimToady _sri: I've seen much worse.  :)
19:29 Su-Shee I'm getting a rock star vibe. ;)
19:30 colomon man, all the cool kids are in chromatic's talk!
19:30 patrickas TimToady: I hear _sri++'s camelia even has stylized P and 6 on her wings !
19:31 colomon I just need to add two more types to the trig tests...
19:32 Su-Shee colomon: once geek, always geek? ;)
19:32 colomon Su-Shee: these sorts of things really bring out my inner introvert.
19:33 _sri http://kraih.com/tpf-camelia-sri.png # draft
19:33 Su-Shee "inner introvert". I'll have to remember that. :)
19:34 colomon Put me in the right situation and I'm an extravert.
19:35 colomon I usually do fine at traditional Celtic music gatherings, for example.
19:35 colomon *extrovert   ?
19:35 ash__ "bring out my inner introvert" is somewhat ironic
19:36 ash__ _sri++ nice logos
19:36 colomon hey, I'm having a one-person hackathon here.
19:36 _sri \o/
19:37 ash__ colomon: thats not a bad thing, i am hacking on parrot now
19:38 TimToady I was up there earlier today, and no one was there, but I'm not allowed to bring out my inner introvert at yapc
19:39 Su-Shee TimToady: wouldn't you bring your inner introvert in and not out?
19:40 * lue is currently typing a "book" for people who wish to get their tenses and such right when time travelling.
19:41 * lue also thought it was a good idea to start by describing how the temporal bits of language work normally.
19:42 pmichaud I've yet to actually make it to the room.  :)
19:44 TimToady coffee &
20:03 cygx joined #perl6
20:04 lue afk
20:05 Psyche^ joined #perl6
20:11 cygx I've got a question about the Rakudo-part of the design of try.rakudo.org (see http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/tryrakudo.svg  )
20:11 cygx is there a way for Rakudo to tell the Controller that no more output will be produced as long as no new input is provided?
20:23 SmokeMachine joined #perl6
20:27 ash__ cygx: do you mean a way to tell if there are any tasks running?
20:33 cygx that's not exactly equivalent, but it could still be useful (more)
20:34 cygx it would be nice for the frontend to know that it nedd not poll for new output as long as it doesn't send new input
20:34 cygx *need
20:35 cygx this affects the design of the client-server-communication and the uiser interface
20:35 pmichaud btw, I'm giving a talk about Rakudo Star tomorrow at yapc::na.  If anyone has a point they want me to be sureto hit (or to avoid?), please let me know :)
20:39 jnthn pmichaud: Having done similarish recently, my only suggestion is to be very clear on the difference between compiler release vs distribution release.
20:39 pmichaud jnthn: that's really kinda the whole topic of my talk :)
20:40 jnthn pmichaud: Sure, but to instill the difference before digging into what's in the distribution.
20:41 pmichaud I'm also hoping to have stuff in place to record my talk.  I tried it with my NQP talk, and managed to capture the video fine but apparently lost the audio.
20:41 pmichaud (I suspect hardware configuration on my laptop.)  I'll see if I can improve things tonight.
20:41 jnthn I'll be interested to see/listen to what you say, given I've got an R* talk on Saturday in Brussels. :)
20:42 pmichaud obra's keynote this morning was excellent, a good lead-in to some of what I plan to cover in my talk
20:43 obra heh. "Perl 6 is our kid sister"
20:45 pmichaud I liked that
20:47 moritz_ did anybody review http://github.com/berekuk/rakudo/commit/​e743f0e4fcaa61e4b9a131d7d27475ac77315291 yet?
20:47 ash__ is any of this going to be online?
20:48 pmichaud reviewing now
20:49 pmichaud the line defining WhateverCode needs to go into WhateverCode.pm, not Block.pm
20:49 moritz_ agreed
20:49 pmichaud Other than that, +1 from me
20:49 pmichaud (i.e., I approve the patch)
20:49 pmichaud jnthn++ can request revert if it doesn't work
20:50 pmichaud (but it looks pretty normalish to me)
20:50 jnthn oh, let me quickly glance
20:50 moritz_ it's the first step to get chained Whatever-currying
20:51 jnthn (slipped my mine, partly thanks to watching some world cup)
20:51 Tene moritz_: why the extra empty stmts node?
20:51 pmichaud normally the first node is reserved for a place to stick parameters and other initializations
20:51 jnthn hmm
20:51 pmichaud we might not need it for WhateverCode nodes
20:52 Tene ah, right
20:52 jnthn I'd have preferred that make_block_from got an extra parameter
20:52 jnthn That defualts to Block
20:52 jnthn But lets you pick the wrapper type
20:52 pmichaud jnthn: I agree, but I'm thinking that may refactor a bit when I do the closures update anyway.
20:52 jnthn Than copy-paste of the code
20:52 pmichaud I'm fine with rejecting in favor of that refactor, if we want to do that.
20:52 jnthn And yes, separate file
20:52 pmichaud (i.e., to add a parameter rather than copy-pasta)
20:53 jnthn Well, I think easiest is to suggest to mmcleric++ those changes. :-)
20:53 pmichaud agreed
20:53 pmichaud so let's do that.
20:54 whiteknight joined #perl6
20:55 moritz_ I'll reply to his pull request and include a link to this discussion
20:55 jnthn phenny: tell mmcleric Looked over your patch. Please add an optional parameter to make_block_from that's like $wrapper_type = 'Block' and then pass 'WhateverCode' in as that parameter, so as to save a little code duplication. Also, would be good to add a WhateverCode.pm rather than putting it into the Block.pm (will just need a little addition in build/Makefile.in - a line below Block.pm would be fine.)
20:55 phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when mmcleric is around.
20:55 jnthn phenny: tell mmcleric +1 on overall direction/intent though. :-)
20:55 phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when mmcleric is around.
20:55 * moritz_ -> bed now
20:56 jrtayloriv joined #perl6
21:02 jrtayloriv Where would I start looking if I wanted to understand how to access functions from C libraries in Perl 6 code? What are some terms I could Google for? What are the major limitations in Parrot/Rakudo that prevent people from doing this, if any?
21:03 moritz_ jrtayloriv: http://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj
21:03 moritz_ (really going to bed now :)
21:03 mmcleric joined #perl6
21:03 jrtayloriv Night night.
21:03 jrtayloriv (and thanks)
21:19 kensanata joined #perl6
21:23 xinming_ joined #perl6
21:33 Guest23195 left #perl6
21:35 ashleydev_ joined #perl6
21:44 jrtayloriv joined #perl6
21:47 mmcleric jnthn: i just sent one more pull request with updated patch
21:47 phenny mmcleric: 20:55Z <jnthn> tell mmcleric Looked over your patch. Please add an optional parameter to make_block_from that's like $wrapper_type = 'Block' and then pass 'WhateverCode' in as that parameter, so as to save a little code duplication. Also, would be good to add a WhateverCode.pm rather than putting it into the Block.pm (will just need a little addition in build/Makefile.in - a line below Block.pm would be fine.)
21:47 phenny mmcleric: 20:55Z <jnthn> tell mmcleric +1 on overall direction/intent though. :-)
21:47 donaldh joined #perl6
21:48 mmcleric off to bed now... 24 hours are suddenly not enough :)
21:54 donaldh joined #perl6
21:54 donaldh joined #perl6
22:01 Transformer joined #perl6
22:02 betterworld joined #perl6
22:06 dalek rakudo: 00efa15 | (Vyacheslav Matjukhin)++ |  (3 files):
22:06 dalek rakudo: WhateverCode type implemented
22:06 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0​0efa155cb1db6ee117b723bf52ca2afc4c58dbc
22:09 tedv joined #perl6
22:11 * jnthn sleep, EEARLYMEETING
22:12 dual joined #perl6
22:13 kthakore joined #perl6
22:13 kthakore hola
22:14 sorear Hello.
22:14 kthakore I have a perliminary version of parrotSDL working with parrot 2.5
22:14 kthakore how do I get rakudo to see it?
22:14 kthakore http://github.com/kthakore/parrotSDL
22:15 Trashlord joined #perl6
22:16 kthakore hrm ...
22:16 kthakore sorear: any clue?
22:17 kthakore oh welll
22:17 ash__ rakudo: Q:PIR { say "PIR works in here" }
22:17 p6eval rakudo c6a829: OUTPUT«PIR works in here␤»
22:17 kthakore ash__: ??
22:18 ash__ in rakudo, if you do Q:PIR you can drop down to pir code directly, so you can load/unload any pir stuff you want, or call other PIR functions or w/e
22:18 colomon joined #perl6
22:18 kthakore ash__: but then so perl6 will have to have a wrapper ?
22:19 Tene I had "use SDL:from<parrot>;" working in the past.
22:19 kthakore Tene: then SDL::init() will work?
22:19 colomon rakudo bof tonight @ yapc question
22:19 Tene All you had to do on the parrot side was use the 'parrot' compiler to set up the exports, and that only if you didn't want to export everything in the SDL namespace.
22:20 Tene But that's been long since broken; I gather there's something working again these days, but I don't really know what it is.
22:20 Tene You might look to see what zavaloj does, maybe.
22:21 sorear phenny: tell cygx to check out http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?IO::Pty::HalfDuplex
22:21 phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when cygx is around.
22:21 kthakore Tene: what and where does zavaloj do?
22:21 Tene or ask sorear, iirc
22:21 Tene zavaloj is what's supporting the perl5 interop
22:21 Tene and I think I misremember the name. :)
22:21 sorear Rakudo doesn't currently support PDD21 HLL interop
22:21 Tene zavolaj
22:22 sorear blizkost
22:22 sorear Blizkost uses the PDD31 interface, which is different
22:22 pugssvn r31403 | mmcleric++ | remove skip marker from first WhateverCode tests
22:23 Tene I'm still grumpy about hll interop being broken repeatedly, after every time I tried to fix it.  I need to get over that.
22:24 sorear I'll try and get PDD21 going again tonight
22:25 * kthakore is totally lost
22:25 kthakore there really shouldn't be so many interfaces to go through to plug a c library in to perl6
22:26 kthakore this is ridiculous
22:26 kthakore *sigh* oh well
22:29 kthakore Tene:  trhanks I will try it
22:29 kthakore gtg home
22:30 micahjohnston joined #perl6
22:33 synth joined #perl6
22:35 ash__ hmmm i know what i could try working on (later?), something like ruby's RubyInline module for perl6, to facilitate C code in perl6
22:36 micahjohnston left #perl6
22:36 Tene kthakore: You are absolutely right.  There's infrastructure in place and work (slowly) in progress to fix it, but it hasn't been a priority for anyone involved with the project, for the most part.
22:37 ash__ i think everyones focused on getting the core of rakudo working right, then they will worry about other features, like interfacing other languages
22:39 Tene I've been a little less burned out lately.  I guess I'll try to look at interop again tonight.
22:39 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
22:43 colomon_ joined #perl6
22:48 kthakore Tene: what is this interface that is coming in place
22:48 ab5tract joined #perl6
22:51 synth joined #perl6
22:51 BinGOs joined #perl6
22:52 ash__ kthakore: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S21.html is the current purposed way of doing it
22:52 kthakore ash__: thx
22:52 eternaleye joined #perl6
22:53 ash__ parrot would probably look like what Tene wrote up above, "use SDL:from<Parrot>"
22:55 kthakore ash__: is any one doing the fromc stuff?
22:57 Tene rakudo: use Curses:from<parrot>;
22:57 p6eval rakudo 00efa1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Parent isn't a Class.␤»
22:58 Tene So... it's at least doing *something* with that.
22:58 Tene Sorry, I can't investigate further until I get home from work.  That'll be about another two hours.
22:59 kthakore no worries
23:02 kthakore Tene: I think it needs .namespace
23:03 kthakore hmm my perl6 compile is stuck at perl6/Grmar
23:04 kthakore src/Perl6/Grammar.pm
23:04 kthakore it is stuck there
23:05 Tene kthakore: you think that what needs .namespace?
23:05 Tene Curses.pir does have .namespace ['Curses']
23:08 colomon_ [Coke]: ping?
23:09 shade_ joined #perl6
23:10 kthakore Tene: i dunno
23:11 sorear Everyone stop.  All that's needed is to implement PDD-21 importation in Perl6::Module::Loader near line 90
23:12 sorear Parrot has two different and incompatible cross-HLL import APIs
23:12 sorear Rakudo only implements one of them at the moment
23:12 Tene Which is the other, these days?
23:13 sorear PDD21 is the unimplemented one
23:13 Tene Right, and which is the other that rakudo is implementing?
23:13 sorear PDD31
23:15 Tene sorry, AFK now, work emergency.
23:29 mj41_ joined #perl6
23:29 ajs joined #perl6
23:30 jaldhar joined #perl6
23:31 sykes_ joined #perl6
23:31 cls_bsd joined #perl6
23:32 kloeri joined #perl6
23:32 solarion joined #perl6
23:33 kthakore sorear: what?
23:33 mathw joined #perl6
23:36 p6eval joined #perl6
23:36 kthakore jeezus
23:36 kthakore how long dose  src/Perl6/Grammar.pm take to compile?
23:38 arnsholt A while =)
23:38 masonkramer joined #perl6
23:40 kthakore arnsholt: it is like it is compiling a language or something
23:40 kthakore :p
23:43 mberends joined #perl6
23:43 sorear also, NQP is really slow
23:43 sorear Parrot in general
23:49 IRSeekBot joined #perl6
23:49 PacoLinux joined #perl6
23:54 solarion joined #perl6

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo