Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-07-23

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 tadzik hmm
00:00 tadzik rakudo: "\e[39m\e[31m".split('\x[1b]').perl.say
00:00 p6eval rakudo 00848d: OUTPUT«("\x[1b][39m\x[1b][31m")␤»
00:00 masak tadzik: you should patch in a special case for "\e" in the pretty-printer
00:00 tadzik $what.trans('\e' => 'E').split('E'); looks awful
00:01 tadzik but well, original Term::ANSIColor's way is even worse :)
00:01 masak that's not what I was suggesting, though :)
00:01 masak rakudo: "\e[39m\e[31m".split("\x[1b]").perl.say
00:01 tadzik that's what I worked out
00:01 p6eval rakudo 00848d: OUTPUT«("", "[39m", "[31m")␤»
00:01 tadzik oh
00:01 tadzik I used '', not "", right
00:01 tadzik :)
00:02 masak that's not what I was suggesting either. :) but no matter.
00:02 tylercurtis rakudo: say pir::fdiv__III(-3, 4); say pir::div__III(-3, 4); say pir::fdiv__NNN(-3, 4); say pir::div__NNN(-3, 4);
00:02 p6eval rakudo 00848d: OUTPUT«0␤0␤-1␤-0.75␤»
00:03 tylercurtis rakudo: say pir::fdiv__III(-3, -4); say pir::div__III(-3, -4); say pir::fdiv__NNN(-3, -4); say pir::div__NNN(-3, -4);
00:03 p6eval rakudo 00848d: OUTPUT«0␤0␤0␤0.75␤»
00:07 rlb3_ joined #perl6
00:08 kfo joined #perl6
00:09 [Coke] I am still here. waiting for teh kerfuffle to settle.
00:10 masak [Coke]: I'm all settled. don't know about the others :)
00:10 [Coke] jnthn: we can always do a point release of parrot. we've done it before.
00:10 jnthn [Coke]: I don't think this would be serious enough to warrant it.
00:11 [Coke] but if you can hack around it, it will save me great headache. I don't wish to do /3/ big releases this week. =-)
00:11 [Coke] jnthn++ ;)
00:12 jnthn [Coke]: Well if we desparately want such an op that's right, we could just make a dynop in perl6.ops, and then switch to the Parrot one after it's fixed in the future.
00:13 [Coke] jnthn: [:facepalm:]
00:13 * tylercurtis is building a parrot with a working fdiv_i_i_i to see how it would affect rakudo's div performance.
00:13 [Coke] that makes a helluva lot more sense! =-)
00:13 tadzik is there something like wantarray in Perl 6?
00:13 jnthn tadzik: No
00:14 tadzik thanks jnthn
00:14 [Coke] (there is only zuul)
00:14 jnthn tadzik: Context works the opposite way in Perl 6 to Perl 5.
00:14 tadzik jnthn: what do you mean, the opposite way?
00:14 jnthn tadzik: moritz_++ wrote a really great explanation on his blog at some point
00:15 tadzik in 5-6?
00:15 jnthn tadzik: seems so, yes. http://perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6#post_06
00:15 [Coke] do we care about renaming the old announcement dirs?
00:15 * tadzik reads
00:15 jnthn I wasn't sure if it was in 5-6 offhand, but yes, it is.
00:15 [Coke] er, files
00:15 jnthn tadzik: Oh, I'm not sure that was the one I wanted actually
00:16 jnthn tadzik: aha!
00:16 mberends zavolaj-users: try the new unix-fork.p6 example -Ofun :)
00:16 jnthn tadzik: http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/​immutable-sigils-and-context.html
00:16 jnthn mberends: huh, it fails here
00:16 jnthn :P
00:17 mberends jnthn: you could try it on pivo ;)
00:17 tadzik sounds sane
00:17 colomon here's the thing.  the reason pmichaud
00:17 jnthn "A 1GB netbook froze with 19 children."
00:17 colomon 's version was so fast is that it switched to doing Nums instead of Rats.
00:18 jnthn Poor childern. My parry are with the father. I'm truly sorry for their lots.
00:18 [Coke] boy, y'all are much better about updating the news.
00:18 cxreg heh
00:18 jnthn mberends: Does this...actually work too? :-)
00:18 colomon getting working fdiv would be nice, but I don't think it will get a crazy speed improvement for us.
00:19 mberends jnthn: yes, up to 18 children. at 100MB per Rakudo process, it was heavy.
00:19 tadzik rakudo: sub foo (Str *@a) {}; foo("foo", "bar", "asd", 7)
00:19 p6eval rakudo 00848d:  ( no output )
00:19 cxreg mberends: a m&s gc is decidedly anti-cow
00:19 tadzik huh. Doesn't it check the types?
00:19 jnthn 100MB memory use is pro-pig though.
00:20 jnthn tadzik: I think type constraints on slurpies are kinda bogus.
00:20 pmichaud colomon: ping -- any word on getting some speed back?
00:20 jnthn tadzik: I mean, what if it's an infinite list?
00:20 pmichaud oh, we can use fdiv
00:20 pmichaud just use the num version
00:20 tadzik oh, right
00:20 colomon pmichaud: I'm spectesting the 22s version right now, it just hit the trig functions
00:20 s1n can anyone explain why DateTime went back to immutable again?
00:20 pmichaud pir::fdiv__NNN($a, $b).Int
00:21 cxreg mberends: wait, what?
00:21 cxreg sub fork() returns Int is native('libz') { ... }
00:21 cxreg libz?
00:21 mberends cxreg: wfm, libc didn't ;)
00:21 pmichaud or, even better, acall "upgrade_to_num_*
00:22 [Coke] looks like the news section is all set. anyone want to bump something up from the changelog into teh announcement?
00:22 cxreg mberends: that might only be working by accident
00:22 [Coke] multi-whatever-currying seems big to me.
00:22 jnthn [Coke]: Reviewing both
00:22 mberends cxreg: I think on Linux fork() is system and may not even be in a lib, but you have to name *some* lib.
00:22 jnthn [Coke]: Yes, that would be a worthy candidate.
00:23 pmichaud looking
00:23 jnthn ooh, feeds are missing
00:23 colomon closure and gather / take fixes, if they're not already in the announcement?
00:23 cxreg mberends: that's what im saying.  in #plparrot and #parrot, we talked once about how to NCI from your resident symbol table
00:23 cxreg mberends: parrot has support for it, not sure about zavolaj
00:23 pmichaud I thought I put feeds in the announcement
00:23 tadzik s:g/foo/bar/ is NYI?
00:23 cxreg jnthn++ implemented it last week, i thought
00:24 sorear do try the other two syntaxes
00:24 jnthn pmichaud: maybe you did
00:24 mberends cxreg: afaik zavolaj still requires a lib, but it's a good idea to make the lib optional
00:24 jnthn pmichaud: I'm looking at ChangeLog though :-)
00:24 pmichaud I didn't update the ChangeLog
00:24 jnthn pmichaud: I've added it, I'm just pondering what else may be missing
00:25 jnthn pmichaud: Is it worth mentiong that Int ~~ Num is gone in this release?
00:25 pmichaud Yes.
00:25 jnthn Adding the ChangeLog
00:25 cxreg so are you guys doing both a monthly release and star?
00:25 pmichaud star is a distribution release
00:25 pmichaud today is a compiler release
00:25 [Coke] feeds are in there.
00:25 cxreg righto
00:27 [Coke] pmichaud: you said the script for generate percentages is broken?
00:27 [Coke] (er, of passing spectests)
00:28 pmichaud [Coke]: yes.
00:28 dalek rakudo: 245b4fe | Coke++ | docs/announce/2010.07:
00:28 mberends yawn. snore. \o
00:28 dalek rakudo: Slight mod to verbage, add another entry from Changelog.
00:28 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2​45b4feca5dac0a9613dcda58697455f459fdd01
00:28 dalek rakudo: afd65e7 | jonathan++ | docs/ChangeLog:
00:28 dalek rakudo: Couple more ChangeLog items.
00:28 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a​fd65e79d25dc03977f9cb65a95990e7c6e0583c
00:28 [Coke] pmichaud: hokay. leaving off that step...
00:28 PZt joined #perl6
00:29 colomon spectesting now in integration...
00:30 [Coke] ingy: ping
00:31 [Coke] ingy apparently needs a CREDITS entry.
00:31 jnthn pmichaud: Shoudl the announce have a mention that this is not R*?
00:31 pmichaud jnthn: yes.
00:31 pmichaud I'm not at a point where I can make such a mention, though.
00:32 [Coke] I will take a first stab at it.
00:32 pmichaud (so if someone else can draft, I'll edit)
00:32 jnthn [Coke]++
00:32 jnthn Announce so far looks good, anyway.
00:33 dalek rakudo: 937177e | jonathan++ | docs/ChangeLog:
00:33 dalek rakudo: Also a note in the ChangeLog about enum improvements.
00:33 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9​37177eeaa1c229428717f935f5680ed46b8ebf2
00:37 [Coke] jnthn: I think Util wrote most of it. =-)
00:37 elmex joined #perl6
00:37 [Coke] star includes compiler and modules and... a pony?
00:37 tadzik and a book
00:38 mikehh joined #perl6
00:38 tadzik and a Cake
00:38 tylercurtis How about a kitty?
00:38 [Coke] book's separate, but timed with, I think.
00:38 tadzik Acme::Meow?
00:38 tylercurtis tadzik: Exactly!
00:38 tadzik tylercurtis: I'll have to write some tests then :)
00:39 eternaleye joined #perl6
00:39 tylercurtis [Coke]: I think Rakudo * is supposed to include the PDF of the book.
00:39 masak Star includes an airbag, for when the tutorials go too fast.
00:39 masak rakudo: enum A <a b c>; say A.enums.WHAT
00:39 p6eval rakudo 00848d: OUTPUT«Method 'enums' not found for invocant of class 'EnumMap'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/RiJhCH9ygw␤»
00:39 [Coke] an enum says WHAT?
00:39 masak ESTILLTOOSOON
00:40 [Coke] what is, the release?
00:40 [Coke] are we waiting on something from you, masak?
00:41 tylercurtis Also perl6.vim and Blizkost according to http://wiki.github.com/rakudo/​rakudo/whats-going-into-rakudo
00:42 [Coke] ah, that's what I need, danke
00:42 Limbic_Region joined #perl6
00:43 masak [Coke]: nope, waiting on nothing from me. I made it! :)
00:43 masak see what you think about the new "Operator overloading" section of the blog post draft http://gist.github.com/485816
00:44 masak if there are no comments, I'll go ahead and publish it now.
00:44 [Coke] msgbot?
00:44 colomon [Coke]: I just pushed my changes a minute ago.
00:45 tadzik masak: multi sub infix:<±>($number, $fuzz) is before Operator Overloading section
00:45 [Coke] masak - there is a +/- builtin?
00:45 dalek rakudo: 3528a10 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Int.pm:
00:45 dalek rakudo: Optimize use of .sign in infix:<div>.
00:45 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3​528a10e67ff3ef1ab70c5faad33ef8c3b66a6ff
00:45 masak rakudo: say "still on 00848d?"
00:45 p6eval rakudo 00848d: OUTPUT«still on 00848d?␤»
00:45 masak tadzik: thanks, fixing.
00:45 [Coke] colomon: so, back to original speed and passing spectest?
00:46 colomon [Coke]: not sure what you mean by original speed.
00:46 [Coke] rakudo: say 15 ± 5;
00:46 p6eval rakudo 00848d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say 15 \x{b1} 5"␤»
00:46 colomon it's the fastest it was today when it passed all the tests.  :)
00:47 [Coke] colomon: apparently last release was 2x as slow as the previous, or something. you eliminated the factor-of-two slowdown, yes?
00:47 colomon I shaved about 55% off the execution time of that script.
00:47 [Coke] masak: you use that example but it fails.
00:47 colomon so yes, it should be about where it was last release.
00:47 [Coke] colomon++ to you, sir.
00:47 tadzik [Coke]: the definition is above the section start
00:47 masak [Coke]: what tadzik said. now fixed.
00:48 masak the section is about operator overloading. :)
00:48 masak hm, I don't need a multi on that sub...
00:48 tylercurtis colomon: a working fdiv_i_i_i appears to reduce the time taken by that script by about 66% compared to before your changes.
00:49 tadzik nice examples, masak++
00:49 masak \o/
00:50 tadzik bah, apparently Term::ANSIColor is alredy in proto
00:50 [Coke] tylercurtis: how about compared to nwo?
00:50 tylercurtis colomon: probably rather minor difference from as is now that you've made it so much faster.
00:50 tylercurtis [Coke]: Haven't tried that yet.
00:50 tadzik Jakob Ilves, is he on #perl6 sometimes maybe?
00:51 [Coke] ok. compare that, if it's another big win, I'll consider holding the release for someone to make a dynop.
00:51 masak rakudo: say "?"
00:51 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«?␤»
00:51 dalek rakudo: 87e77d0 | Coke++ | docs/announce/2010.07:
00:51 dalek rakudo: add a "we are not star" note to the compiler release announcement
00:51 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8​7e77d0f757279a62d6b218d693bba10c2dd31ce
00:51 dalek rakudo: f2aa8d1 | Coke++ | docs/announce/2010.07:
00:51 dalek rakudo: rerun the contributer script.
00:51 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f​2aa8d1545aa616cc2ee45cea2633600ddce24d2
00:52 * masak whistles "we are not star"
00:52 masak rakudo: enum A <a b c>; say A.enums.WHAT
00:52 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«EnumMap()␤»
00:52 masak rakudo: enum A <a b c>; say A..WHAT
00:52 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1␤  in 'WHAT' at line 710:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/gA1pJtBwqX␤»
00:53 masak oops.
00:53 masak rakudo: enum A <a b c>; say A.WHAT
00:53 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«A␤»
00:53 masak \o/
00:53 * masak closes ticket
00:53 tylercurtis colomon: can you point me to any quick spectests to run that incorrect infix:<div> behavior would mess up?
00:54 colomon t/spec/S03-operators/arith.t
00:55 colomon tylercurtis: you actually changed parrot for this fix?
00:55 jnthn masak: Nice post!
00:55 masak thankz.
00:55 tylercurtis colomon: my local checkout, yeah.
00:55 masak it's going into print now.
00:56 masak just have to... um... make yet another small Perl 6 script to convert to use.perl.org's idiosyncratic idea of HTML.
00:57 dalek rakudo: 5c33c5a | Coke++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
00:57 dalek rakudo: This release is heading out the door soon.
00:57 dalek rakudo: Also note broken step. :(
00:57 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5​c33c5aaf2e7e096d5cbed018b357c5e8bc6f5eb
00:57 dalek rakudo: 8a9027a | Coke++ | docs/announce/2010.07:
00:57 dalek rakudo: I am fairly certain that Rakudo is not yet committing code to her own repository
00:57 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8​a9027a8fcc97e59599af9bd4a4ae58aed0716ce
00:57 [Coke] ... though it would be super awesome if she wasn't so lazy!
00:57 colomon 66% better is a decent bit faster than my fix.  but seems like it is very late in the day to try to squeeze it into the release if it needs parrot changes as well.
00:57 [Coke] colomon: no, you'd just make his parrot builtin op fix a dynop for rakudo.
00:58 jnthn [Coke]: no no, Rakudo became self-aware this month too
00:58 [Coke] and yes, I really am not doing a parrot release today, again. =-)
00:58 [Coke] jnthn: let her fix the damn announcement, then!
00:58 [Coke] ;)
00:58 colomon ah, [Coke] I have not the faintest idea how to do a dynop
00:58 [Coke] jnthn and I have some experience in that area.
00:59 [Coke] and perl6 is already using dynops, so it's not a heavy lift.
00:59 [Coke] uh, why does perl6.ops have an $Id $ string? =-)
00:59 colomon you guys be the judge, then?  if it's easy to do the dynop thang, I'm pretty sure the rakudo part of things is trivial.  then it's just a matter of another spectest....
01:00 sorear [Coke]: because it used to be in svn?
01:00 jnthn [Coke]: Laughing dried grapes.
01:00 [Coke] someone show me the op.
01:00 colomon tylercurtis: can you add say $n.WHAT; to the end of the test script to make sure it is outputting a Rat?
01:00 [Coke] sorear: it was kind of rhetorical. =-)
01:00 tylercurtis colomon: meh, apparently, I didn't correctly fix fdiv_i_i_i.
01:01 colomon ah.
01:01 colomon I vote we leave this for the next release.
01:01 jnthn [Coke]: tbh I'd not worry about it.
01:01 jnthn +1
01:01 colomon always nice to have another 10% speedup in your pocket.  ;)
01:02 [Coke] WFM.
01:02 Util [Coke]: Your rerun of the contributer script removed "döt net" from Ingy's name.
01:02 [Coke] tylercurtis: if you get it working as an op, it's basically a CNP into src/ops/perl6.ops with a new op name.
01:02 cxreg mberends: patch for zavolaj ready, reads from resident symbol table
01:02 [Coke] Util: not my fault. he's not in CREDITS.
01:02 cxreg (no zlib required :) )
01:02 [Coke] I will gladly rerun if someone adds him. =-)
01:03 [Coke] cxreg: resident evil table?
01:03 Util [Coke]: Fair enough.
01:03 eternaleye joined #perl6
01:03 cxreg [Coke]: is native('burial ground')
01:03 sjohnson rakudo:  for (^5) { my %hash; say "dub-tee-eff" if defined(%hash); %hash<something> = 1; }
01:03 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«dub-tee-eff␤dub-tee-eff␤dub​-tee-eff␤dub-tee-eff␤dub-tee-eff␤»
01:04 sjohnson anyone here able to explain why %hash stays defined, after it is redeclared with a my?
01:04 tylercurtis rakudo: my %hash; say %hash.defined
01:04 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«1␤»
01:05 tylercurtis sjohnson: because apparently empty hashes are defined. Is that wrong?
01:05 [Coke] there's yer problem.
01:05 sjohnson rakudo: my $string; say $string.defined
01:05 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«0␤»
01:06 sjohnson ... that threw me for a good loop at work
01:06 tylercurtis rakudo: my @array; @array.defined.say;
01:06 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«1␤»
01:06 sjohnson maybe TimToady can help me
01:06 sjohnson *puppy dog eyes*
01:06 sjohnson help me with explanation, i mean.  just so i get the idea.
01:07 pmichaud back again... anything from the release need anything from me?
01:07 pmichaud (in the next 8 mins, before the soto?)
01:07 [Coke] pmichaud: double check the Star note in the announcement.
01:07 pmichaud I'm thinking it might want to be higher
01:08 [Coke] sure.
01:08 pmichaud make it the 2nd paragraph, maybe?
01:08 tylercurtis sjohnson: I think composite containers are always defined.
01:08 dalek rakudo: 3d67b9d | Coke++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
01:08 dalek rakudo: remove svn fossil
01:08 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3​d67b9ddcebb09e804da5aff4ac6a572cd1f9d03
01:08 tylercurtis sjohnson: based on the implication of this from S02 "Assigning or binding Nil to any composite container (such as an Array or Hash) empties the container, resetting it back to an uninitialized state. The container object itself remains defined."
01:08 masak joined #perl6
01:09 sjohnson thank you, tylercurtis
01:09 sjohnson sorry to highlight you, TimToadie
01:09 sjohnson sowwie
01:09 pmichaud "July 29[2]" feels weird.
01:09 eternaleye_ joined #perl6
01:09 pmichaud maybe "July 29, 2010 [2]."
01:09 pmichaud or "July 29 [2]"
01:10 [Coke] pmichaud: done.
01:10 [Coke] .. except for that.
01:10 pjcj joined #perl6
01:10 [Coke] ooh, the push failed. bundling..
01:10 pmichaud anything else that needs my input/review?
01:10 au|irc sjohnson: ().defined is also true; generally, ".defined" is true for allocated containers, even if it has a size of 0.
01:11 pmichaud [Coke]: does anyone else have a "hold request" on the release?  (more)
01:11 pmichaud at this point, I consider the release to be largely in your hands -- you can decide when to cut it.  :)
01:11 sjohnson you learn something everyday!
01:11 [Coke] pmichaud: colomon was the last. not waiting on anyone else.
01:11 pmichaud okay, great.
01:12 [Coke] pmichaud: I'm doing the build/test now.
01:12 masak rakudo: say "foo".substr(4).WHAT
01:12 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«Mu()␤»
01:12 [Coke] oh, and i can move up the family room to do this and stop being a hermit.
01:12 * masak submits rakudobug
01:12 pmichaud [Coke]: if you run into any difficulties (you shouldn't, but...)  and it's getting late where you are, I don't see any major difficulty with holding until tomorrow
01:13 pmichaud anyway, it's in your ballpark.
01:13 pmichaud for everyone else ... feature freeze until release :)
01:13 tylercurtis sjohnson: I expect the reasoning is that if you made @ and % variables default to undefined objects like scalars do, you either have to manually initialize them or or be unable to distinguish an empty array/hash from lack of an array/hash.
01:13 pmichaud (unless Coke++ requests or approves :)
01:13 pmichaud okay, time for SOTO here...bbiaw
01:14 tylercurtis The former if you initialize them to the type object, the latter if you say that empty arrays/hashes are undefined.
01:14 dalek rakudo: 5b5c8f5 | Coke++ | docs/announce/2010.07:
01:14 dalek rakudo: I said, WE ARE NOT STAR.
01:14 dalek rakudo: (emphasize by moving up to 2nd paragraph). pmichaud++
01:14 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5​b5c8f5f72a148a1edfddca6571d6970c77433f6
01:14 achromic joined #perl6
01:17 timbunce joined #perl6
01:17 snarkyboojum joined #perl6
01:24 fridim joined #perl6
01:25 masak loliblogged: http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/40459
01:25 masak [Coke]: happy releasing!
01:26 * masak seeks the bed
01:26 tylercurtis Oh. That's what I did wrong! I only changed fdiv_i_i, not fdiv_i_i_i.
01:26 kjeldahl joined #perl6
01:26 tadzik phenny: tell masak you forgot to bold the Operator Overloading section
01:26 phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
01:27 * tylercurtis facepalms.
01:27 plobsing joined #perl6
01:28 justatheory joined #perl6
01:28 au|irc phenny: tell masak great blogpost :) looks like use.perl ate the <...> in infix:<...> as markup, though
01:28 phenny au|irc: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
01:28 felliott joined #perl6
01:29 felliott_ joined #perl6
01:30 [Coke] is it normal for there to be a small # of spectest failures?
01:31 colomon no
01:31 colomon what are you seeing?
01:31 sjohnson rakudo: my @list; @list.push(undef); @list.defined.say
01:31 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of undef as a value; in Perl 6 please use something more specific:␤     Mu (the "most undefined" type object),␤   an undefined type object such as Int,␤    Nil as an empty list,␤    *.notdef as a matcher or method,␤ Any:U as a type constraint␤
01:31 p6eval .. or fail() as a failur…
01:31 sjohnson ... what have I DONE
01:32 sjohnson rakudo: my $buffer; my @list; $buffer .= 'bad' if @list; @list.push(0); $buffer .= 'good' if @list; say $buffer
01:32 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Quoted method name requires parenthesized arguments at line 22, near " if @list;"␤»
01:33 sjohnson rakudo: my $buffer; my @list; $buffer ~~ 'bad' if @list; @list.push(0); $buffer ~~ 'good' if @list; say $buffer
01:33 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
01:33 sjohnson (´ー` )
01:33 * sjohnson gives up
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01:33 sjohnson rakudo: say 'happy'.' juice'
01:33 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Quoted method name requires parenthesized arguments at line 22, near ""␤»
01:34 sjohnson rakudo: say 'happy'~' juice'
01:34 tylercurtis colomon: While figuring out what I did wrong with fdiv_i_i_i, I tried fdiv_n_n_n, which gives the correct result for the example script and isn't noticeably slower than the broken _i_i_i. It also passed arith.t(well, arith.rakudo; I assume arith.t should have some failures itself?). Haven't compared to yours yet. About to try your change then try with working fdiv_i_i_i.
01:34 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«happy juice␤»
01:34 sjohnson rakudo: my $buffer; my @list; $buffer ~= 'bad' if @list; @list.push(0); $buffer ~= 'good' if @list; say $buffer
01:34 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«good␤»
01:34 sjohnson sorry to clog the channel tylercurtis, i'm done.
01:34 tylercurtis sjohnson: "undef" isn't valid in Perl 6.
01:34 colomon tylercurtis: default parrot fdiv_n_n_n works?
01:34 sjohnson thanks for the help
01:35 tylercurtis colomon: if you still use box__PI, yes.
01:36 [Coke] ... I haven't released yet.
01:37 colomon trying here.
01:37 colomon [Coke]: please do not wait on us!
01:37 tylercurtis colomon: Surprisingly, it appeared to be slightly faster than broken fdiv_i_i_i. But that's probably not a significant difference. I didn't fully spectest.
01:37 [Coke] I'm not, I'm waiting on the (&#$ spectests. =-)
01:37 colomon [Coke]: \o/
01:39 colomon arith.t passes
01:40 colomon wow, timing script works and is down to 10s
01:40 colomon tylercurtis++ # another big win
01:42 colomon I used upgrade_to_num_if_needed instead of boxing -- that's how most of the other Int operators do things.
01:42 colomon though I don't think it will ever need to upgrade, so there's probably a way to shave a few more cycles off there.
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01:43 sorear TimToady: ping
01:47 [Coke] spec. test. so. slow. w. t. f.
01:48 [Coke] ah. don't run the spec tests with TEST_JOBS, because they eat a TON of memory.
01:48 [Coke] ah well, I'm already in S32.
01:49 tylercurtis colomon: yeah. Your previous version is significantly slower than fdiv_n_n_n for me.
01:50 colomon [Coke]: S32 takes a substantial portion of the time, alas.
01:51 Util [Coke]: Shall I commit http://gist.github.com/486902 ?
01:51 Util (Added Ingy to CREDITS; made contributors.pl work with UTF-8 and ignore fake "Rakudo Perl" name)
01:51 [Coke] http://nopaste.snit.ch/22220
01:52 [Coke] spectest failures.
01:52 [Coke] is that evil?
01:52 colomon yes
01:52 colomon what the heck?
01:52 [Coke] Util: Go for it, that should be safe.
01:53 [Coke] Util++
01:53 colomon [Coke]: try
01:53 colomon make t/spec/S05-mass/properties-derived.t
01:53 colomon I'm wondering if you just ran out of memory or something.
01:53 [Coke] Util: also fix the list in teh release.
01:53 Util [Coke]: Will do.
01:54 [Coke] colomon: no, it fails even when run like that.
01:54 colomon huh.
01:54 colomon works fine here.
01:55 colomon you're on linux?
01:55 [Coke] no, OS X 10.6
01:55 colomon double huh
01:55 [Coke] darwin, intel.
01:55 colomon 10.5 here
01:56 [Coke] that's with a --gen-parrot
01:56 colomon same here
01:57 * tylercurtis gets the failures with a non gen-parrot on OS X 10.5.
01:57 [Coke] I am guessing this is not worth killing the release over.
01:57 [Coke] can someone do a spec test on linux for me?
01:58 colomon [Coke]: I'll pull a fresh rakudo and try it on my big 64-bit linux box
01:58 [Coke] ARGH.
01:58 [Coke] does stresstest really also run spectest?
01:59 colomon I dunno, they did all that while I was on vacation.
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02:00 dalek rakudo: 93ec069 | util++ |  (3 files):
02:00 dalek rakudo: Added Ingy to CREDITS; made contributors.pl work with UTF-8 and ignore fake
02:00 dalek rakudo: "Rakudo Perl" name
02:00 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9​3ec06999ea1ba442aee48dae8bb95c9348f7cc4
02:01 tylercurtis [Coke]: forgot that, it's only the s05 tests I'm getting failures for.
02:05 snarkyboojum I've had failure in t/spec/S05-mass/properties-derived.t on OS X for ages
02:05 snarkyboojum failures even
02:06 snarkyboojum for several months at least
02:06 tylercurtis snarkyboojum: the Ideograph stuff?
02:06 snarkyboojum unicode weirdness
02:06 snarkyboojum yeah
02:07 colomon do you guys have ICU?
02:07 snarkyboojum tylercurtis: always related to \x[9FC4]
02:07 snarkyboojum yep
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02:08 [Coke] pretty sure i"m icu enabled, yes.
02:08 snarkyboojum definitely have ICU here
02:09 * tylercurtis also does.
02:09 snarkyboojum last time I brought it up moritz_ mentioned that it was a known issue on some platforms
02:09 colomon huh, t/spec/S05-mass/properties-derived.t doesn't work at all on my Linux box.  perhaps no ICU is the problem?
02:11 colomon (for me, I mean, not for you)
02:11 tylercurtis [Coke]: which test does the s10 test fail on?
02:12 dalek rakudo: 40bf707 | Coke++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
02:12 dalek rakudo: stresstest runs spectest also - don't need it 2x.
02:12 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4​0bf7075870621f0333f6beb20368264c028daa7
02:12 dalek rakudo: d1cd713 | Coke++ |  (3 files):
02:12 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo
02:12 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d​1cd713b50ef0e0a16444ca75789897f4ecc98ad
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02:16 lue ohai
02:17 sorear TimToady: Can you explain 'my module CORE;' ?  I thought that the setting, and YOU_ARE_HERE code, was supposed to go into GLOBAL
02:17 sorear (the part that isn't 'my'-scoped)
02:18 snarkyboojum I seem to get intermittent failures in S10-packages/basic.t - just ran it a few times.. a couple of runs where everything passes and a few with failed subtests which seems to abort and fail with "Bad plan."
02:18 [Coke] tylercurtis: it's in the nopaste.
02:18 [Coke] (or else I don't know. =-)
02:19 [Coke] running stresstest now, will post those...
02:19 [Coke] ugh, only on s03
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02:23 sorear rakudo: $Foo::x = 42; say "alive"
02:23 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in getprop()␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/1dH4ftG5W5␤»
02:23 sorear std: $Foo::x = 42; say "alive"
02:23 p6eval std 31790: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 117m␤»
02:23 sorear Is that valid (no runtime errors) Perl 6?
02:27 au|irc sorear: it is
02:27 au|irc as per S10/Package nesting
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02:30 sorear au|afk|lunch: I'm speaking of the fact that there is no declarator for Foo::x
02:31 snarkyboojum tylercurtis: I think [Coke] might be seeing the same kinds of errors as I've described for S10-packages/basic.t - i.e the test is crashing after test 13 and test 36 for me, but intermittently
02:31 sorear wow, you eat almost as fast as I do
02:32 au|irc it's as fast as pushing lunch on thunks queue
02:33 au|irc I read that as "Foo::<$x> = 42" and would think the package obj would be vivified, as per S10
02:34 au|irc might be wrong, though.
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02:43 sorear let me rephrase that.
02:43 sorear rakudo: package Foo { }; $Foo::x = 42; say "alive"
02:43 p6eval rakudo 937177: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in getprop()␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/FMfdkLTHlI␤»
02:43 sorear should that be legal?
02:43 sorear no *package* vivification here
02:44 tylercurtis Is it cheating on my chemistry placement test if I write a Perl 6 module for strongly-typed unit-correct calculations and use that as my calculator? :)
02:46 snarkyboojum tylercurtis: I'd be interested if you managed to run a Perl 6 module *on* your calculator :P
02:47 tylercurtis snarkyboojum: not on my calculator. :) As my calculator. The test is online.
02:48 tadzik hah :)
02:55 [Coke] holy crap, this stresstest isnt going to finish until friday.
02:56 snarkyboojum [Coke]: what's it up to? :)
02:57 tylercurtis ugh... I think I'm going to have to do .Num.Int to get .kilo to actually return an Int when called on an Int.
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03:08 cxreg rakudo: my $foo = pir::null__P()
03:08 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in isa_pmc()␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/8u0MgbDSLX␤»
03:08 cxreg why do you get that when trying to store a null?
03:13 sorear snarkyboojum: Do you have a .NET calculator?
03:13 sorear I know they make Java cellphones
03:14 [Coke] advent day 17
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03:16 snarkyboojum [Coke]: oops - that's a memory intensive test
03:16 snarkyboojum sorear: nope :P
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03:22 [Coke] guess it was a bad night to have 150 tabs open in Chrome.
03:26 [Coke] done. http://nopaste.snit.ch/22223
03:26 [Coke] same properties-derived failrus and s10-packages.
03:27 [Coke] S10-packages working for folks on linux ?
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03:39 cxreg ok, i think i need a commit bit on zavolaj
03:41 sorear hugme: show zavolaj
03:41 hugme sorear: sorry, I don't know anything about 'zavolaj'
03:41 cxreg crud
03:42 sorear ping jnthn
03:42 cxreg jnthn: ping :)
03:42 * cxreg forks
03:44 cxreg there we go: http://github.com/cxreg/zavolaj/commit/37c4b6112
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03:51 [Coke] ok, those tests do pass on feather.
03:58 sorear std: augment class Foo {}
03:58 p6eval std 31790: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Can't augment class Foo without MONKEY_TYPING at /tmp/aG9wyrJklb line 1:␤------> [32maugment class Foo [33m⏏[31m{}[0m␤Potential difficulties:␤  Can't augment class Foo because it doesn't exist at /tmp/aG9wyrJklb line 1:␤------> [32maugment class
03:58 p6eval ..…
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03:59 sorear std: class Foo::Baz { }; class Foo { class Bar { augment class Baz {}; }; }
03:59 p6eval std 31790: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Can't augment class Baz without MONKEY_TYPING at /tmp/kpi_NJM45B line 1:␤------> [32mass Foo { class Bar { augment class Baz [33m⏏[31m{}; }; }[0m␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 115m␤»
03:59 sorear How does that work?
03:59 tadzik use MONKEY_TYPING;
04:00 sorear std: use MONKEY_TYPING; class Foo::Baz { }; class Foo { class Bar { augment class Baz {}; }; }
04:00 p6eval std 31790: OUTPUT«Compiled ./lib/MONKEY_TYPING.pm6␤ok 00:01 115m␤»
04:00 sorear std: use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class Foo {}
04:00 p6eval std 31790: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤  Can't augment class Foo because it doesn't exist at /tmp/uY2COpb4mH line 1:␤------> [32muse MONKEY_TYPING; augment class Foo [33m⏏[31m{}[0m␤ok 00:01 114m␤»
04:01 sorear How does that work?
04:01 tadzik I think you need to have a class first
04:01 sorear How does Perl 6 find baz
04:01 sorear tadzik: no.  I want to know why the Baz version *works*
04:01 tadzik no idea
04:01 sorear If I ask "How does X work", you should assume that I'm talking about something that works.
04:02 sorear If I want to know about something that doesn't work, I will ask "Why doesn't X work"
04:02 tadzik my bad
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04:09 sorear ah, I see, I think
04:09 sorear STD seems to be aliasing $*CURLEX to $*CURPKG
04:10 sorear 23:09 <@Alias_> I continue to think that until Perl 6 is real, until you can  have it fully installed and experimentable in less than a  minute, nobody will really care very much
04:10 sorear I think this sounds like a request for binary packages of Rakudo
04:10 sorear Is that doable?
04:12 snarkyboojum sorear: only on a .NET calculator
04:13 sorear well, Alias maintains the official windows packages of Perl5
04:13 cxreg sorear: this from the guy who's still scared of Git
04:13 sorear so .NET works
04:14 sorear cxreg: huh?
04:14 cxreg i think debian is already shipping rakudo
04:14 cxreg yeah, it is
04:14 cxreg Get:4 http://ftp.us.debian.org experimental/main rakudo 0.1~2010.01-1 [1,357kB]
04:15 cxreg sorear: alias has git-phobia :)
04:15 cxreg or something approximating it
04:16 [Coke] trying to post to use.perl.org. article submission . preview .takes me to search.pl?op=journals, not a preview. wthf.
04:18 [Coke] righhht. can't even click on the login input box on firefox.
04:18 [Coke] cross use.perl.org off my list of places to publish.
04:19 [Coke] crap. can I haz a login on rakudo.org?
04:19 shade_ joined #perl6
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04:22 [Coke] I will not be offended if someone just posts the announcement on rakudo.org for me. I will also take a login and do it myself. or take a login after someone has done that. or a beer.
04:22 mtnviewmark_ left #perl6
04:22 [Coke] release is done, go about your business. =-)
04:23 kkrev joined #perl6
04:24 * cxreg hacks SPI support into plparrot
04:25 snarkyboojum [Coke]++ # release-fu
04:34 Raynes joined #perl6
04:36 * [Coke] is tiiiiiired.
04:37 szabgab cxreg: debian is also shipping padre but people still would like to have an easy, on click installer for it.   Even on linux
04:37 [Coke] is also trying to get Albany.pm to meet next week.
04:37 [Coke] anyone going to be in the area on thursday? =-)
04:37 cxreg szabgab: so use ubuntu :D
04:37 [Coke] szabgab: you would be proud!
04:37 szabgab I think easy installation is critical for acceptance
04:37 snarkyboojum szabgab: enjoyed your screencasts - keep em coming :)
04:38 cxreg szabgab: why should rakudo be easier to install than perl 5?
04:38 szabgab cxreg: I am using Ubuntu, but I am not sure why does that make a difference?
04:38 snarkyboojum cxreg: why shouldn't it be? :D
04:38 szabgab cxreg: only if we want people to start using it :)
04:38 cxreg heh
04:38 kkrev joined #perl6
04:38 [Coke] for most users, installing perl is a noop. =-)
04:39 [Coke] "oh, look, it came with the system."
04:39 cxreg well whatever.  ubuntu has those fiddly things for adding your own sources now
04:39 cxreg we should set one of those up maybe
04:39 snarkyboojum what's happening with try.perl6.org?
04:39 szabgab [Coke]: right but that's an old perl
04:40 szabgab not the one freshly baked by p5p
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04:41 tylercurtis rakudo: enum Foo <a b c> ; my Foo $f = Foo::a; say $f; my Foo $g = a; say $g;
04:41 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«Type check failed for assignment␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/GsJnM6Geob␤»
04:41 tylercurtis rakudo: enum Foo <a b c> ; my $f = Foo::a; say $f; my $g = a; say $g;
04:41 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«0␤0␤»
04:41 tadzik snarkyboojum: moritz says the parts are pretty much done, and someone needs to stick it all together
04:41 tadzik it's try.rakudo.org by the way
04:42 tylercurtis rakudo: enum Foo <a b c> ; my $f = Foo::b; say $f; my $g = c; say $g;
04:42 snarkyboojum tadzik: oops ok - but cool
04:42 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«1␤2␤»
04:42 szabgab case: I was just in a talk about http://garlicsim.org/ a simulator, I had my windows netbook with me. I looked for the windows installer, installed it and it was not the right one (it was without a gui) so I uninstalled and went home
04:42 tylercurtis rakudo: enum Foo <a b c> ; my $f = Foo::b; say $f; my $g = c; say $g; say Foo::a ~~ Foo;
04:42 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«1␤2␤0␤»
04:42 tylercurtis Enumbug =/
04:43 tylercurtis rakudo: say Bool::True ~~ Bool;
04:43 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«1␤»
04:43 tylercurtis rakudo: enum Foo <a b c> ; my $f = Foo::b; say $f; my $g = c; say $g; say Foo::a ~~ Foo; say Foo::a ~~ Int;
04:43 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«1␤2␤0␤1␤»
04:45 snarkyboojum tadzik: not sure if I can help, but happy to if there's anything obvious to be done
04:45 snarkyboojum :)
04:45 tadzik snarkyboojum: don't ask me, I have no idea :)
04:50 szabgab snarkyboojum: you are welcome (re screencasts) but I am also trying to figure out how could they be improved?
04:51 szabgab I see a sharp drop in the view stats from episode 1 to 4
04:51 szabgab viewers: 864 - 203 - 107 - 39
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04:54 tylercurtis szabgab: @viewers[2,3]>>++
04:54 * tylercurtis is now getting around to watching the 3rd and 4th.
04:55 sorear szabgab: what youtube doesn't tell you is the number of people who watched the end of #4
04:55 sorear I bet it's around 50
04:55 sorear er
04:55 sorear the end of #1
04:56 szabgab maybe, but I'd still like to understand why people don't watch till the end?
04:57 szabgab is it as Alias said, to slow, archaic editor, not easy to try it?
05:00 sorear szabgab: because you didn't explain what the screencasts are in your blog posts
05:01 sorear people had to start watching to know what you meant
05:01 sorear after doing that, they didn't need to visit the rest
05:01 sorear at least that's why I only visited the first
05:03 szabgab rakudo: my %h = ("Foo" => 2, "Bar" => 3); %h.fmt("%s %s");
05:03 p6eval rakudo d1cd71:  ( no output )
05:03 szabgab rakudo: my %h = ("Foo" => 2, "Bar" => 3); say %h.fmt("%s %s");
05:03 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«Bar 3␤Foo 2␤»
05:04 szabgab rakudo: my %h = ("Foo" => 2, "Bar" => 3); say %h.fmt("%s<%s>");
05:04 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '%s' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/Fq9euLarDL:22)␤»
05:04 szabgab rakudo: my %h = ("Foo" => 2, "Bar" => 3); say %h.fmt("%s <%s>");
05:04 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«Foo <2>␤Bar <3>␤»
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05:04 szabgab rakudo: my %h = ("Foo" => 2, "Bar" => 3); say %h.fmt("%s\<%s>");
05:04 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '%s' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/o77_iCYm4B:22)␤»
05:04 szabgab rakudo: my %h = ("Foo" => 2, "Bar" => 3); say %h.fmt("%s\<%s\>");
05:04 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«Foo<2>␤Bar<3>␤»
05:05 szabgab rakudo: my %h = ("Foo" => 2, "Bar" => 3); say %h.fmt("%s\{\"%s\"\}");
05:05 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<{ }>, couldn't find final '}' at line 22␤»
05:06 szabgab I wonder if there is an explanation for these errors or if they are bugs?
05:06 sorear try std:
05:06 szabgab std: my %h = ("Foo" => 2, "Bar" => 3); say %h.fmt("%s\{\"%s\"\}");
05:06 p6eval std 31790: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
05:07 szabgab std: my %h = ("Foo" => 2, "Bar" => 3); say %h.fmt("%s<%s>");
05:07 p6eval std 31790: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable %s is not predeclared at /tmp/FzktIaYAJf line 1:␤------> [32m("Foo" => 2, "Bar" => 3); say %h.fmt("%s[33m⏏[31m<%s>");[0m␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
05:10 sorear '' is probably better if you don't want interpolatin
05:12 szabgab rakudo: my %h = ("Foo" => 2, "Bar" => 3); say %h.fmt('%s<%s>');
05:12 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«Bar<3>␤Foo<2>␤»
05:12 szabgab right, I did not think of that
05:12 szabgab thanks
05:13 szabgab rakudo: my %h = ("Foo" => 2, "Bar" => 3); say %h.fmt('%s{"%s"}');
05:13 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«Bar{"3"}␤Foo{"2"}␤»
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05:15 tylercurtis Is list assignment lazy?
05:15 sorear no
05:16 jaldhar joined #perl6
05:16 sorear the exact status of list assignment wrt laziness hasn't been decided yet
05:16 sorear to be safe, use :=
05:17 sorear huh.  STD just made a lexpad where OUTER:: points to a *package*
05:17 sorear how does that make any sense?
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05:25 sorear std: package Foo { my $x = 2; }; package Foo::Bar { say $x }
05:25 p6eval std 31790: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
05:26 sorear phenny: tell TimToady It's possibly to confuse STD.pm6 into setting up a package as the OUTER:: of a lexical scope.  Try package Foo { my $x = 2; }; package Foo::Bar { say $x }
05:26 phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
05:27 sorear phenny: tell TimToady STD.pm6 line 5547 appears to be involved, but I'm not very knowledgable on the $*CURLEX handling
05:27 phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
05:27 snarkyboojum szabgab: It's most speculation I suppose. Not sure re the editor comment - could be. I suspect most people are comfortable using whatever editor they're most familiar with. I think it could also be related to people just dipping their toes in and having a peek - I know I often treat other "new" languages like that until I'm ready to give them a good look. Good luck with the rest.. I'll be sending links to them around and generally
05:27 snarkyboojum advertising them on the web :)
05:27 snarkyboojum s/most/mostly/
05:27 sorear What editor was szabgab using?
05:27 snarkyboojum vim I think
05:28 tadzik yep, vim
05:28 [Coke] ->> zzz
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05:40 szabgab one comment is sure important, that people need to be able to try out that stuff in order to want to go on watching, especially as I am not show the funky features of perl 6 but trying to teach it
05:40 szabgab so for the quick start I might need to direct them to the irc channel to use the bot
05:41 szabgab is there a web interface for the evalbot?
05:41 szabgab oh I remember I've already asked if I could talk to the evalbot in my privacy :)
05:41 szabgab but I don't remember how
05:42 tylercurtis szabgab: just send private messages to p6eval.
05:42 szabgab yep   this worked: /msg p6eval rakudo: say 42
05:43 szabgab so let me try it from the web
05:44 tylercurtis rakudo: class Q_ { }; Q_.new.perl.say;
05:44 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«Q_.new()␤»
05:44 tylercurtis rakudo: class Q { }; Q.new.perl.say;
05:44 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "Q.new.perl"␤»
05:44 tylercurtis rakudo: class Foo::Q { }; Foo::Q.new.perl.say;
05:45 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«Foo;Q.new()␤»
05:48 snarkyboojum szabgab: once try.rakudo.org is up that might be worth mentioning
05:49 szabgab who is working on it?
05:49 szabgab I thought it would not be hard to connect a web pages to the current evalbot, would it ?
05:49 snarkyboojum szabgab: moritz_ put it up as a weekly rakudo challenge a while back.. not sure of status or who is working on it.. I was asking the same question earlier today
05:50 snarkyboojum szabgab: maybe not terribly hard, but needs to be done safely etc (obviously)
05:51 snarkyboojum szabgab: anyway, tadzik mentioned that perhaps most of the bits'n'pieces for it are complete, so it may not be far off
05:54 cxreg snarkyboojum: maybe you meant http://try.rakudo.org:8090 ?
05:55 cxreg seems pretty non-functional atm
05:55 tylercurtis ISTR someone having an at least somewhat working demo.
05:56 snarkyboojum cxreg: ah cool - seem the input field is currently disabled
05:56 snarkyboojum seems*(
06:01 * tylercurtis wonders if it's a mistake to attempt to parallel the naming conventions of the DTD in his HTML library.
06:01 * tylercurtis wonders if it's even possible to use "naming conventions" to describe the HTML 4.01 Strict DTD without being a liar.
06:04 tylercurtis There's ALLCAPS, CamelCase, Firstlettercapitalized alllowercasescrunchedtogether, separated-by-hypens, separated.by.dots... Probably some more I'm forgetting.
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06:16 moritz_ in first approximation, everybody is a liar
06:19 szabgab hi moritz_
06:19 moritz_ hi szabgab
06:20 szabgab so what about that web interface for the evalbot?
06:20 szabgab can I help with it to make it live?
06:20 moritz_ szabgab: I hope so :-)
06:20 szabgab what is its status?
06:20 moritz_ szabgab: cygx++ implemented all the backend logic, but so far nobody plugged it into the front end
06:21 szabgab oh I can try to do that
06:21 szabgab what is the backend?
06:21 snarkyboojum moritz_: am happy to lend a hand if I can be of assistance too :)
06:21 moritz_ snarkyboojum: look at http://github.com/moritz/try.rakudo.org/
06:21 moritz_ and szabgab too
06:21 moritz_ there's an architecture.svg that tries to explain the structure
06:22 moritz_ and a DESIGN_BACKEND file, which is probably more accurate
06:22 moritz_ huh
06:22 moritz_ it seems that cygx didn't commit all his stuff :(
06:23 szabgab so is this listening on some socket that is not 80 right?
06:23 moritz_ ah, it's on feather3 in ~cygx/try-rakudo/
06:24 moritz_ szabgab: yes
06:24 szabgab and the client would connect to that socket, send in some code, get a session id and then the connection is closed
06:24 moritz_ the client connects to the CGI script
06:24 moritz_ which then connects to the socket
06:24 szabgab then later the client should poll the server?
06:25 moritz_ yes
06:25 szabgab ok so the client sends in standard GET or POST request?
06:25 moritz_ yes
06:25 szabgab and is that part running already?
06:25 moritz_ yes, but not with the code in the repo...
06:26 moritz_ just a sec
06:26 moritz_ http://try.rakudo.org/try-rakudo.tar.gz
06:26 moritz_ that's the current backend code
06:26 moritz_ feel free to dump it into the repo
06:26 szabgab I'd prefer to talk to the eral backend on the server :)
06:27 moritz_ 'eral'?
06:27 moritz_ 'real'?
06:27 szabgab real
06:27 szabgab http://try.rakudo.org:8090/ seems to give me an id
06:28 mberends cxreg: pulled  your Zavolaj patch, verified it and pushed to jnthn/zavolaj :-)
06:28 moritz_ szabgab: do you want an account on the development machine?
06:28 szabgab I think I had an account on fether
06:28 szabgab but I don't even remember its address
06:30 cxreg mberends: sweet
06:30 szabgab moritz_: so which is the development machine?
06:31 moritz_ szabgab: feather3
06:31 szabgab full name?
06:31 moritz_ feather3.perl6.nl
06:31 szabgab ty
06:31 moritz_ try.rakudo.org :-)
06:31 cxreg mberends: turned out to be pretty simple :)
06:32 tadzik moritz_: might giving me some tips about File::Find? The P5 version passes no arguments to the callback function, and the file info can be accessed via some global variables. Can it be just passing a hash in Perl6 version?
06:32 cxreg mberends: the trickiest part was learning that you can't store pir::null__P() in a variable and then use it
06:32 moritz_ tadzik: sure. Or just the file name as first param
06:32 mberends cxreg: yes, surprisingly elegant. nice work!
06:33 tadzik moritz_: I currently pass the whole path, and I wonder whether it's important to give anything else. P5 version gives, via those variables, a path without a final name, a final name, and a full path with a filename. Weird, imho
06:34 moritz_ tadzik: a good solution would be to pass in an object which stringifies to the full name, and has accessors for the filename too
06:34 szabgab moritz_: you you pls check if there is a user called gabor or szabgab there?
06:34 szabgab oh I see it now
06:34 moritz_ szabgab: created a new one (feather != feather3), see /msg
06:35 tadzik moritz_: maybe… but wouldn't creating an object be an overkill for such a simple task? Or maybe not. How do you think? These objects won't live in memory for long anyway
06:38 moritz_ tadzik: the alternative would be to use contextual variables
06:39 tadzik contextual variables?
06:40 moritz_ rakudo: sub f { say $*x }; my $*x = 3; f()
06:40 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«3␤»
06:40 moritz_ it looks up in the call chain
06:42 tadzik I think I'll go for objects, they're quite common in Perl 6 as I see. But out of curiosity, in which synopse can I read about those contextual vars?
06:43 cxreg moritz_: is that much like a dynamic variable in perl 5?
06:44 au|irc it's now known as dynamic variables in perl6 too...
06:45 cxreg tadzik: to read about that in perl5, perldoc perlsub | less -p '   Temporary Values via'
06:46 au|irc tadzik: in S02, look for C<DYNAMIC> which talks about the * twigil :)
06:47 au|irc (and "temp", which is like perl5's "local")
06:48 tadzik intereseting
06:48 cxreg incidentally, (less -p)++
06:49 au|irc wow, learns something new every day. cxreg++ :)
06:50 szabgab it seems that ever call to http://try.rakudo.org:8090/ gives me the same session ID
06:50 cxreg szabgab: C is for Cookie
06:51 cxreg or not, i deleted mine and still got the same one
06:52 cxreg unless '2521d99fd2fb58f4' means 'empty session'
06:52 moritz_ [Coke]++ # release
06:52 mulander joined #perl6
06:53 moritz_ hugme: add szabgab to try.rakudo.org
06:53 * hugme hugs szabgab. Welcome to try.rakudo.org!
06:53 cxreg moritz_: it's like wildlfe research; tag and release
06:54 szabgab ty moritz_ but I am not sure what to do with it:)
06:54 mulander left #perl6
06:54 * sorear returns from walk with a much better understanding of p6 packages
06:54 szabgab first I wanted to try a command line client for that back-end
06:54 tylercurtis .u smiling face
06:54 phenny U+263A WHITE SMILING FACE (☺)
06:54 szabgab maybe wrapped in perl 5
06:55 szabgab so people could integrate it into their IDE...
06:55 cxreg sorear: a vision quest of sorts?
06:55 szabgab cxreg: so I tried  POST http://try.rakudo.org:8090/send?2521d99fd2c158f4
06:55 sorear cxreg: of sorts.
06:56 szabgab and ten typed in   42.say   and ctrl-d
06:56 szabgab and no feedback received
06:56 sorear pmichaud does them too, it really does help
06:56 cxreg interesting
06:57 szabgab cxreg: are you the same as cygx  or just similar letter?
07:02 cxreg if that's a person, i'm not him
07:03 szabgab as I understand that's the person who wrote the backend and has it in his(?) home dir on feather
07:03 cxreg heh
07:04 cxreg there's not enough hours in the day for me to have an alter ego
07:06 szabgab with an alter ego you might be able to do twice as much work :)
07:10 cxreg then i'd be like 1/3 of au|irc
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07:14 * tadzik wonders if File::Find could be as powerful as find(1) one day
07:16 * au|irc feels rather hexagonal :)
07:18 tylercurtis moritz_: are you around?
07:20 moritz_ tylercurtis: more or less :-)
07:20 tylercurtis moritz_: how does one submit a patch for Rakudo?
07:20 moritz_ tylercurtis: mailto:rakudobug@perl.org
07:22 cxreg tylercurtis: 'Submitting patches' in the README describes the process
07:22 zulon joined #perl6
07:24 moritz_ if it's something short-and-quick you can also nopaste patches here
07:24 zulon hi!
07:24 moritz_ (with the risk of them getting lost in the noise (or signal) here)
07:24 moritz_ hi zulon
07:24 cxreg i'm fond of the github fork method :)
07:24 zulon moritz_: I think I found a typo in your blog post
07:25 zulon $x max= 0;
07:25 zulon $x min= 10;
07:25 tylercurtis moritz_: I may have cut the runtime of the script colomon and pmichaud were working on optimizing by about 50%(very unscientific measurement) on my box, at least. I'll run a spectest in the morning and submit the patch assuming it doesn't break and colomon doesn't do the same thing before then.
07:25 zulon shouldn't it be the opposite?
07:25 tylercurtis zulon: no. $x max= 0; means that $x becomes whichever is greater of $x and 0.
07:25 zulon oh, right
07:25 moritz_ zulon: no. When I want to cllip to the range of 0..10, I want -1 to result in 0
07:25 snarkyboojum which blog post? :D
07:25 moritz_ so -1 max 0
07:26 zulon yes, I'm stupid
07:26 zulon sorry :)
07:26 moritz_ snarkyboojum: http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/per​l-5-to-6/27-common-idioms.html
07:26 moritz_ zulon: I've made the same mistake too
07:26 moritz_ just a matter of experience
07:26 tylercurtis zulon: That doesn't make you stupid. Or at least, I hope not.
07:26 snarkyboojum moritz_: sweet - thanks
07:26 * tylercurtis didn't get it immediately either.
07:27 moritz_ tylercurtis: I'm eager to see that patch :-)
07:27 mathw Morning
07:27 * snarkyboojum waits to hear moritz_'s accent doing a screencast of sorts for perl5 to 6 ;)
07:27 moritz_ tylercurtis: colomon++ did some tweaks shortly before the release; not sure if they are the same as yours
07:28 moritz_ snarkyboojum: which of mine? the German? or the false Scottish?
07:29 snarkyboojum moritz_: hehe
07:29 snarkyboojum when is TimToady doing his talk at OSCON?
07:30 snarkyboojum is he doing a talk at OSCON?
07:30 frettled is there an OSCON?
07:30 frettled :)
07:30 frettled moritz_: if you do a passable Connery impression, I'd love to hear it.
07:31 snarkyboojum frettled: I thought OurGreatLeader was speaking there :P
07:31 tylercurtis moritz_: no. Mine uses fdiv_n_n_n(which does work, unlike fdiv_i_i_i). On the plus side, it greatly simplifies infix:<div> and makes it look like most of the other (Int, Int --> Int) infixes. I mentioned it to colomon before, so he might end up commiting it, but in case he for some reason doesn't, I thought I should submit a patch. Besides, it's an excuse to get my name in the release announcement for next month. ;)
07:33 * tylercurtis ==> sleep # will spectest and submit patch in slightly later morning.
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07:45 snarkyboojum sorry to belabour a point, but where will the state of the onion address for 2010 be accessible?
07:45 tadzik how about adding Term::ANSIColor to http://wiki.github.com/rakudo/​rakudo/whats-going-into-rakudo ?
07:49 mberends joined #perl6
07:52 moritz_ +1
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07:58 dumdum rakudo: say 42
07:58 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«42␤»
07:58 dumdum rakudo: say 42 "more"
07:58 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say 42 \"mo"␤»
08:05 moritz_ rakudo has less-than-awesome error messages for two terms in a row
08:06 szabgab I think I'll try to make a screencast to show people how to use the IRC channel ad the evalbot
08:07 mathw Like, not flooding the channel with evalbot experiments?
08:07 moritz_ or like, flooding the channel with evalbot experiments? :-)
08:07 szabgab I'll also show how to do it in a private channel
08:07 moritz_ on the channel you don't see that people also /msg the evalbot
08:07 moritz_ ight
08:08 moritz_ r
08:08 szabgab but the question will the server manage it?
08:08 moritz_ we will see :-)
08:08 moritz_ it's worth a trial
08:08 szabgab let's try it
08:08 tadzik szabgab: what was your audience last time (views)?
08:09 szabgab 876 - 207 - 111 - 60
08:09 szabgab for the 4 parts
08:10 moritz_ rakudo: say [+] 876, 207, 111, 60
08:10 szabgab the last one was uploaded 12 hours ago
08:10 tadzik so a few dozens more users of the evalbot, where the new users will most probably issue loads of requests
08:10 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«1254␤»
08:10 szabgab rakudo: say [*] 876, 207, 111, 60
08:10 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«1207671120␤»
08:10 szabgab rakudo: say [**] 876, 207, 111, 60
08:10 * moritz_ runs an upgrade on feather3
08:10 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
08:10 moritz_ don't be surprised if things work funnily for a while
08:11 moritz_ Get:1 http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/main libc-bin 2.11.2-2 [704kB]
08:11 moritz_ Get:2 http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/main libc6 2.11.2-2 [3,877kB]
08:11 tadzik yay, every day is a new-perl6-post-on-reddit day
08:11 moritz_ that's a good start :-)
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08:13 tadzik moritz_: is there a perfectly POD-documented module to be inspired with?
08:13 moritz_ tadzik: I have no idea. masak++ might know
08:13 tadzik masak is absent, sadly :)
08:13 justatheory joined #perl6
08:14 moritz_ I know. He usually shows up during the day, though
08:14 tadzik in what timezone does he live?
08:14 snarkyboojum tadzik: nice alliteration :p 'perfectly POD-documented'
08:14 moritz_ UTC+2 (central europe)
08:14 tadzik triple P
08:15 tadzik could be a badge in proto :)
08:15 Tene joined #perl6
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08:15 dimid joined #perl6
08:15 tadzik so, what nifty modules would be nice to have in R*?
08:15 pjcj joined #perl6
08:16 moritz_ all nifty modules, please :-)
08:16 * moritz_ wants LWP-Simple
08:16 moritz_ and MiniDBI
08:16 moritz_ and a ponie!
08:16 tadzik they're alredy on a list
08:17 tadzik hmm, Acme::Ponie would be a nice Cake for R*
08:17 tadzik it should be able to do everything
08:17 tadzik and more
08:17 moritz_ a libjustdoit wrapper, via zavolaj!
08:21 tadzik Net::FTP would be nice. Do we have binary stuff working yet?
08:21 moritz_ ask masak :-)
08:21 tadzik file writing and stuff
08:21 tadzik :)
08:21 daxim joined #perl6
08:21 moritz_ mostly, yes
08:21 tadzik maybe some Term::Progressbar?
08:21 moritz_ I think it would benefit from a real-world application (the binary stuff)
08:22 tadzik or rather a real-world application would benefit from binary stuff
08:23 moritz_ every thing that's implemented is usually fragile at first, but the tests only cover some usage patterns
08:23 moritz_ so only real-world application and bug reports lead to it working nicely
08:23 kst joined #perl6
08:23 tadzik hmm, that's right
08:23 sorear isn't the whole point of R* to attract real world applications to stuff that they would benefit?
08:24 moritz_ sorear: that's right
08:24 moritz_ sorear: but if we have more stuff working, we'll get error reports on a wider front
08:24 aesop joined #perl6
08:24 moritz_ so, more benefit here
08:24 Eevee joined #perl6
08:24 tadzik benefits lead to another benefits \o/
08:25 Raynes I read that as "benefits lead to friends with benefits \o/"
08:25 Raynes Had to double-take.
08:28 sorear mberends: How would you feel about vill being moved from src/perl6 to src/ ?\
08:29 sorear mberends: for niecza, and any future project seeking to track STD, I'm wanting src/perl6 subcheckouts to be as lightweight as possible
08:30 pugssvn joined #perl6
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08:36 mberends sorear: vill should probably move to a git repo anyway. Will do that soon.
08:37 daxim ⟫Ö⟪ giant camelia
08:38 dakkar joined #perl6
08:46 patrickas good morning perl6!
08:48 mathw hi patrickas
08:48 patrickas mathw o/
08:50 pmurias joined #perl6
08:50 pmurias sorear: why not use the STD on CPAN?
08:50 pmurias sorear: i'll add what you need and there will be no need to checkout STD
08:52 sorear pmurias: a stable extension API and the ability to do automatic installs tracking changes to a STD_REVISION file
08:53 * sorear wonders if local::lib will help
08:53 pmurias automatic installs tracking changes to a STD_REVISION file? explain
08:54 sorear TimToady++ regularly makes breaking changes to STD
08:54 sorear having a STD_REVISION file allows me to track STD at my own pace
08:54 sorear I have Makefile rules to automatically download and build STD whenever _REVISION changes
08:55 pmurias you want to avoid changes that break STD or change the AST format a bit?
08:56 sorear the latter
08:56 mac joined #perl6
08:56 mac hi
08:56 sorear Hello, mac
08:56 sorear Welcome
08:56 sorear pmurias: also, occasionally the language spec gets changed, like when YOU_ARE_HERE became {YOU_ARE_HERE}
08:57 pmurias had to fix that one recently
08:57 sorear that required modifications to the niecza setting and compiler
08:57 sorear having explicit revision tracking means that I can update and fix in the same commit
08:57 sorear and the evalbot never breaks
08:58 pmurias if you want to make niecza installable you will either have to prefix your STD like Niecza::STD or use the CPAN one
08:59 sorear I don't plan to make niecza installable from CPAN
08:59 pmurias why not?
08:59 sorear using Perl 5 is strictly a bootstrapping stunt for me
08:59 sorear my #1 goal is to be able to compile STD.pm6
09:00 * pmurias is not very keen on bootstrapping
09:01 sorear well, the entire compiler exists because I became frustrated with how inefficient viv/Cursor is
09:04 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
09:04 moritz_ good morning, pmichaud
09:05 mac morning? huh ;)
09:05 sorear good * pmichaud
09:06 mac Some of us have to wake up a "little" earlier;)
09:06 frettled or just good pmichaud :)
09:06 sorear mac: did we scare you away?
09:07 moritz_ frettled: like in China, where you say "ni hao", "you good" :-)
09:07 frettled moritz_: yes, exactly!
09:07 Mowah joined #perl6
09:07 pmurias TimToady: what can i rename to/prefix with LazyMap, Cursor, Actions so i don't get an UNAUTHORIZED release marker on CPAN
09:07 jnthn joined #perl6
09:08 mac No, sorear, in spite of I feel fine
09:08 DemoFreak joined #perl6
09:08 moritz_ it's always morning *somewhere*
09:09 _sri joined #perl6
09:11 pmichaud I've posted the release announcement to rakudo.org.  Coke++
09:12 broquaint joined #perl6
09:12 daxim what's the included book?
09:13 moritz_ daxim: "Using Perl 6"
09:13 daxim url?
09:13 moritz_ not quite finished yet :/
09:13 moritz_ http://github.com/perl6/book/
09:13 daxim thanks
09:14 pmichaud hugme tweet rakudoperl Rakudo #31 "Atlanta" released:  http://rakudo.org/node/74
09:14 * hugme hugs pmichaud; tweet delivered
09:15 pmichaud hmm, I probably should've included "#perl6 #rakudo"  in that tweet.
09:15 * pmichaud is still trying to get the hang of twitter
09:15 moritz_ it's the first release where I'm truely convinced that it's better than alpha, for nearly all applications
09:16 * sorear is somewhat suprised there wasn't a fork
09:17 patrickas joined #perl6
09:17 moritz_ what kind of fork? that continued developing alpha?
09:17 sorear yes
09:17 a3r0 joined #perl6
09:17 pmichaud alpha had lots of issues -- in many ways it had reached the end of being a useful development line
09:18 pmichaud also, it was based on PGE, which didn't have protoregexes
09:18 pmichaud (still doesn't)
09:19 sorear PGE is still maintained?
09:19 pmichaud not really
09:19 moritz_ it's mostly unbroken when a parrot change breaks it
09:20 moritz_ I wouldn't exactly call that maintenance :-)
09:21 pmichaud time for a bit more sleep here -- bbl
09:22 sorear ok, so it's as maintained as pugs
09:26 daxim .[ ^10 ];   # 10 most common words    -   where is the circumflex piece of syntax explained
09:26 moritz_ daxim: S03. Search for "upto"
09:26 pmurias sorear: who would want to hack on a dead-end branch of rakudo?
09:26 avar are there pre-built pdfs of the p6 book available somewhere?
09:26 moritz_ avar: yes, in the download section
09:27 moritz_ they don't have the latest markup improvements, though
09:27 avar ah, from -06, seems a bit old :)
09:27 moritz_ avar: pmichaud++ volunteered for making a release this month
09:29 pmurias moritz_: would it be difficult to make automatic pdf builds of the book?
09:29 sorear pmurias: I was under the impression that point was highly contested
09:30 moritz_ pmurias: currently it's difficult to build, because it has quite some requirements on installed latex packages, tools and fonts
09:32 sorear What is the full set of psuedo packages that are legal after CALLER::?
09:33 sorear just OUTER, UNIT, SETTING?
09:33 pmurias CALLER::CALLER?
09:33 moritz_ CALLER:: too
09:34 sorear only those 4?
09:34 sorear ok
09:34 moritz_ not sure
09:34 moritz_ there are always surprises in Perl 6
09:34 moritz_ I wonder if there should be a syntax for declaring pseudo packages
09:36 * mathw wonders why he's in the list of contributers to the Rakudo release
09:36 wamba joined #perl6
09:36 Juerd Of course. Colon, star, or backtick?
09:36 a3r0 I think Rakudo logo had better be modified,Japanese Shrine's gate is too religious and give a reluctant feeling to those who live in the country which was one of the japanese colony in the past..
09:37 a3r0 like korea, china ,tiwan...
09:37 moritz_ a3r0: are you talking of personal experience, or general sentiment?
09:37 a3r0 i think it's general sentiment.
09:37 a3r0 if we make t-shirt which contains shrine's gate.
09:37 moritz_ mathw: if you were ++'ed in one of the commit messages, you are mentioned
09:37 a3r0 I can't wear it in korea.
09:38 patrickas joined #perl6
09:38 moritz_ mathw: like, for mentioning that something's missing in a commit, spelling mistakes, LTA error messages or so :-)
09:38 a3r0 It's like nazi mark in Europe.
09:38 mathw moritz_: maybe it was a bug I spotted or something
09:41 moritz_ a3r0: it's new to me that it's that bad... do you have a link to something that describes the cultural resentments more deeply?
09:42 a3r0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine
09:44 a3r0 http://www1.voanews.com/korean/news/a-35-2005​-10-17-voa2-91204419.html?moddate=2005-10-17
09:45 pugssvn r31791 | sorear++ | [S02] Move CALLER:: to the "reserved anywhere in a name" section, because CALLER::CALLER:: is explicitly described.
09:46 moritz_ buu: seen JimmyZ
09:46 moritz_ sorry
09:46 moritz_ buubot: seen JimmyZ
09:46 buubot moritz_: I don't think I've seen JimmyZ.
09:46 moritz_ useless bot
09:46 frettled a3r0: I fail to see the connection.  The links you gave are regarding a specific disputed shrine, not about Japanese logotypes representing (or not representing) a shrine being a general problem.  Or have I missed your point?
09:49 a3r0 Japan forced to go and worship the shirine to japanese colony countries.
09:50 moritz_ it's also curious that so far nobody from said countries complained
09:50 pat__ joined #perl6
09:50 frettled moritz_: it might be a generational thing
09:51 moritz_ neither JimmyZ from China, nor au|afk from Taiwan (iirc)
09:52 sorear I'd be suprised if JimmyZ was the only one
09:53 moritz_ right; but it's the one I explicitly remember as being from China :-)
09:56 envi^home joined #perl6
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09:59 frettled a3r0: What I don't understand is the connection between the Rakudo logo and what you're talking about.  There's something missing, something that can explain to me how that logo is offensive.  I understand that Japan's actions before, during, and after WW II have been reprehensible to many people in greater Asia, which is what your links also essentially tell a part of the story of.  But what's the direct connection?  You say it's like "the nazi mark" ...
09:59 frettled ... (I suppose you mean the black swastika on a white circle on a red flag), but I want to know _how_ it is like that.
09:59 JimmyZ Hi~~
10:02 moritz_ hi JimmyZ; if you backlog a few minutes, you might find an intersting discussion
10:02 * frettled feels mostly clueless regarding that part of cultural history.
10:02 zulon joined #perl6
10:03 * frettled goes for chocolate cake.
10:04 JimmyZ xingming has been being here since 2005, he was from china
10:04 * moritz_ had some hazelnut cake already. Very tasty.
10:05 moritz_ JimmyZ: do you have any bad feelings towards the Rakudo logo?
10:05 JimmyZ Nope
10:06 JimmyZ 乐土 is chinese :)
10:06 a3r0 korean think shrine == militarism.
10:07 gbacon joined #perl6
10:07 JimmyZ and I like the door, hehe
10:07 hanekomu_9 joined #perl6
10:08 sorear here in the USA, which never was a Nazi colony, you don't even need the white circle and the red flag
10:08 sorear the swastika alone is enough to get you spat on in the streets
10:09 moritz_ same here (obviously)
10:09 moritz_ it's weird for Germans to travel to India, where it's still used in its original context :-)
10:09 sorear no similar situation exists with temple iconography, despite the fact that the Japanese came much closer to occupying US territory than the Germans ever did
10:10 a3r0 http://rki.kbs.co.kr/english/​korea/korea_history_con81.htm
10:10 a3r0 http://rki.kbs.co.kr/images/img_h​istory/8-2obliterate-religion.jpg
10:10 a3r0 In order to obiliterate religion among Koreans, Japan built a shrine on Mt. Namsan in Seoul in 1920. All Koreans were forced to visit the shrine to worship the Japanese emperor and the Gods idolized by the Japanese people.
10:12 a3r0 i hope this article would be a good reason to modify.
10:13 sorear does $MY::x do a full lexical scope, hitting outers too?
10:15 moritz_ in the end it's pmichaud's call
10:15 Velvet joined #perl6
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10:20 pmurias sorear: is it ok if i rename LazyMap,Action,Cursor to STD::LazyMap...
10:20 pmurias ?
10:27 tadzik joined #perl6
10:29 sorear pmurias: you're asking the person who originally proposed it.  of course it's ok with me
10:29 sorear it's TimToady who might (already has) object(ed)
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10:32 masak oh hai, #perl6!
10:32 phenny masak: 01:26Z <tadzik> tell masak you forgot to bold the Operator Overloading section
10:32 phenny masak: 01:28Z <au|irc> tell masak great blogpost :) looks like use.perl ate the <...> in infix:<...> as markup, though
10:32 masak tadzik, au: thanks. fixed.
10:32 masak <JimmyZ> and I like the door, hehe
10:32 masak LOL
10:33 masak interesting question about cultural associations and WWII.
10:34 au|irc .u 100DC
10:34 phenny au|irc: Sorry, no results for '100DC'.
10:34 au|irc hm. it's the closest I can get to a shrine in unicode :)
10:36 au|irc well, the rakudo.org artwork is specifically a Shinto shrine, so I can see the WWII connection
10:37 au|irc otoh, it's a nice diversity from the general Judeo-Christian vocabulary that perl uses :)
10:37 masak I've always felt Rakudo's logo to be a bit austere, especially next to the colorsplosion that is Camelia.
10:37 au|irc I like it, fwiw; it has that minimal Zen feel
10:39 masak huh -- release announcement was sent to parrot-dev, p6l and p6u -- but not to p6c. :)
10:39 szabgab I thought it was a gate but now I see it is a shrine,    a gate to heaven?
10:39 zulon joined #perl6
10:39 masak oh well, [Coke]++
10:39 au|irc szabgab: a gateway to the Perfect Language
10:40 au|irc which, as per S01, is defined as Perl 7 :)
10:40 |Velvet| joined #perl6
10:42 jnthn o/
10:42 au|irc o ̷
10:43 jnthn [Coke]++ # release...I fell asleep before it happened :-)
10:43 szabgab o _
10:43 jnthn cxreg: What's your github id?
10:44 szabgab another gate: http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Székelykapu
10:46 au|irc nice geometric constrast
10:46 au|irc *contrast
10:46 colomon can we check in patches yet?
10:46 colomon errr, push commits?  ;)
10:47 jnthn colomon: Would seem so. Our only extra constraint is that we can't bump PARROT_REVISION until the 30th. :-)
10:47 colomon will we cut another release of Rakudo for R*?
10:47 masak that's an odd constraint :)
10:48 mathw because R* has to be based on a released version of Parrot
10:48 jnthn colomon: I somewhat suspect so. For example, we really want a fix for the roles + settings issue in R*.
10:49 jnthn colomon: And I didn't manage to get that into this release. :(
10:49 jnthn (er, yesterday's relesae)
10:49 Velvet joined #perl6
10:50 colomon I've got a patch based on tylercurtis's work last night which should make current Rakudo twice as fast as Kiev for that script we were working on optimizing yesterday.
10:52 jnthn colomon: Nice
10:52 jnthn colomon: So long as it doesn't need a Parrot revision bump, it's fine (and welcome :-)).
10:52 colomon tylercurtis++ did all the heavy lifting, I just put it together nicely.
10:53 colomon pushed
10:53 Velvet left #perl6
10:56 Velvet joined #perl6
10:56 masak the trolls have joined the party. http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/csr​og/6_builtins_in_perl_6_that_you_never_knew_you/ -- give it a day or so, and the good guys'll show up, too.
10:56 colomon there are good guys on reddit?  ;)
10:56 masak moritz_, chromatic...
10:56 dalek rakudo: bc3e181 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Int.pm:
10:56 dalek rakudo: Reimplement infix:<div> to use pir::fdiv.  tylercurtis++.
10:56 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b​c3e1810ec19fdcd7d88fe6b651fc57101329e72
10:56 * masak realises he shouldn't keep a list of The Good Guys in one easy-to-find place :)
10:56 au|irc masak: "map { $_ * $_ }, (1 ... *)" needs the parens :)
10:56 masak oh dear. yes.
10:56 * masak fixes
10:56 frettled moritz_: Ah, well, at least nobody elected to use the Norwegian flag, which would offend a lot of moslems.  :)
10:56 colomon au|irc: it's great to have you back with us here.  :)
10:57 au|irc colomon: it's great to be back with y'all here :)
10:57 frettled moritz_: or the Swedish, in which case the Norwegians would be offended, right, masak?  ;)
10:57 masak frettled: I have no ideas what offends you wusses over there. :P
10:58 colomon au|irc: you gave me my commit bit back in 2005 or so.  I tweaked a thing or two, then ignored it for four years.
10:58 sorear it's great to have au here *period*
10:58 sorear we're dangerously close to a critical mass of optimism
10:59 TiMBuS aw masak, you used the 'map' version instead of my genius solution
10:59 au|irc colomon: ah. good things that commit bits, unlike cookies, don't expire...
10:59 masak frettled: by the way, I spent a week in Värmland. it's so close to the Norwegian border, that one feels the influence of the language and the culture. I picked up a few Norwegian words.
10:59 colomon au|irc: :)
10:59 sorear au|irc: be careful what you wish for, I've had cookies without expiration dates before, they aren't all that great
10:59 masak TiMBuS: simplicity. your version was nice, though.
10:59 TiMBuS lol
11:01 frettled masak: oh noes!
11:01 masak I also feel like a "did nothing for four years" person. my biggest contribution in the Pugs era was trying, and failing, to port CPAN's Getopt::Long.
11:02 frettled :)
11:02 sorear I first payed attention to Perl 6 in Mar or Apr 2010
11:02 colomon my biggest contribution was noting that array reference via [ ] was O(N^2).  (That was the very early days of Pugs!)
11:02 frettled my biggest contribution so far is joking in good humor on this channel ;)
11:03 sorear colomon: N^2 !?
11:03 sorear that's worse than a theoretically optimal linked list
11:05 au|irc colomon: ah right, via sieve.p6
11:05 jnthn I'm trying to remember what my first Pugs patch was. I think it was some copy-pastery that got the ASCII version of hyper-ops to parse as well as the unicode-y ones, which I was too lazy to work out how to type. :-)
11:05 au|irc very early indeed
11:05 colomon au|irc: just so.
11:05 masak told you the D&D-ers would like it :P -- http://twitter.com/dotandimet/status/19329500141
11:05 masak in other news, more than one name for anything confuses people: http://twitter.com/hiro_asari/status/19300163352
11:06 colomon sorear: might have just be O(N) on each access.  it was a long time ago.
11:06 frettled masak: all of those look like good PR to me
11:06 colomon that would have made seemingly O(N) code O(N^2)
11:06 * sorear wonders what his biggest contribution was
11:06 colomon at any rate, it was very slow
11:07 au|irc indeed. seeing it was my second haskell program, lack of proficiency in managing data structures can be assumed :)
11:07 jnthn masak: They're all names for different things too. ;-)
11:08 masak sorear: I have a question. what's the best point in viv to go in and pull out a hierarchical data structure, rather than output it to STDOUT? or is there a better script than viv for this?
11:08 masak jnthn: tell me about it! if they were at least different names for the SAME thing, it's be slightly easier! :P
11:09 masak this looks like good PR, as well: http://www.pcworld.com/article/201743/perl_creator​_hints_at_imminent_perl_6_release.html?tk=rss_news
11:09 frettled it almost looks like you're about to imminentize the escathon.
11:10 masak isn't that the whole idea?
11:10 masak "Apocalypse"... :)
11:10 sorear masak: if you just want a tree, rather than deparsed output, viv is entirely dead weight
11:10 sorear use STD.pm6 directly
11:10 au|irc frettled: I see. so it's an Erisian Shrine and nobody would be offended. it all works out!
11:10 masak sorear: oki. any example code somewhere for that kind of thing?
11:10 colomon I like the "hints" there.
11:10 sorear perl -MSTD -E 'say YAML::XS::Dump(STD->parsefile("foo"))'
11:11 masak sorear++
11:11 masak anyblag; I'm going offline now. going on a road trip with two friends. might not come back online today.
11:11 masak o/
11:11 szabgab finally a reddit conversation I could add my wealth of education
11:11 au|irc \o
11:11 frettled au|irc: or everybody should be offended.  As you say, it all works out.  :D
11:12 au|irc :)
11:13 frettled szabgab: oh, nice :)
11:21 screencast joined #perl6
11:21 screencast hi , I am new to perl 6, I'll need some help !
11:22 screencast can someone tell me how can I add two numbers and print to the screen
11:22 cono rakudo: say 2+2
11:22 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«4␤»
11:22 xinming joined #perl6
11:22 szabgab crap
11:23 szabgab I had to stop the recording :(
11:23 au|irc nice irc performance art :)
11:23 szabgab let me start again :)
11:24 screencast joined #perl6
11:25 screencast hi I am new to perl 6, I'll need some help from you
11:25 screencast how can I add two numbers and print them to the screen?
11:25 au|irc rakudo: 2+2
11:25 p6eval rakudo d1cd71:  ( no output )
11:25 jnthn rakudo: say 39 + 3
11:25 cono :)
11:25 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«42␤»
11:26 au|irc evidently, the "say" here is critical
11:26 jnthn I'd say so.
11:26 au|irc screencast: does that answer your question? :)
11:26 screencast yes thank you
11:27 Juerd Also, existing Perl 5 code like "print 2 + 2" still works :)
11:28 cono rakudo: (2 + 2).say
11:28 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«4␤»
11:29 au|irc rakudo: [+](2,2)
11:29 p6eval rakudo d1cd71:  ( no output )
11:29 au|irc rakudo: say [+](2,2) # sigh :)
11:29 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«4␤»
11:29 jnthn or just
11:29 jnthn rakudo: say [+] 2,2
11:29 frettled rakudo: say :13<6*9>
11:29 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«4␤»
11:29 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed radix number at line 22, near "<6*9>"␤»
11:30 * jnthn prefers it without the parens :-)
11:30 frettled hmm
11:30 frettled rakudo: say :13(6*9)
11:30 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«69␤»
11:30 szabgab man , I have stage fright even when off-line recording :)
11:30 frettled nooo :(
11:31 frettled rakudo: :13(6*9).say
11:31 szabgab let's see if it worked out in the recording well :)
11:31 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«69␤»
11:31 au|irc rakudo: say 2 [[[+]]] 2
11:31 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«4␤»
11:31 au|irc jnthn: cool, it works without the parens either way :)
11:31 pat__ au|irc : \o/
11:31 cono rakudo: eval("2+2").say
11:31 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«4␤»
11:32 jnthn au|irc: It does occur to me that with the [[[+]]] nesting, we actually do have an infinite number of ways to add two numbers together in Perl 6. :-)
11:32 cono TMTOWDI
11:32 jnthn TAINOWTDI
11:33 au|irc TA∞WTDI
11:33 felliott rakudo: "hello".chomp.trans.say
11:33 moritz_ just started reading the pcworld article, and noted that it links to perl6.org, not the old dev.perl.org/perl6/ thing. \o/
11:33 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«hello␤»
11:33 felliott rakudo: "hello\n".chomp.trans.say
11:33 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«too few positional arguments: 1 passed, 2 (or more) expected␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/shV3pbU1mO␤»
11:33 frettled rakudo: $x=6*9; :13($x).say
11:33 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$x' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/VGEJIahW0b:22)␤»
11:33 jnthn moritz_: Yes, I was happy to see it was in general linking to good stuff.
11:33 frettled oh, drat, my
11:33 frettled rakudo: my $x=6*9; :13($x).say
11:33 moritz_ felliott: that's a bug
11:33 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«69␤»
11:33 frettled copy+paste is so nice when you forget.  hmm.
11:33 frettled rakudo: my $x=6*9; :10($x).say
11:34 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«54␤»
11:34 felliott moritz_: it seems to be a problem with Cool-str::substr and Any-list::join
11:34 cono jnthn: what means TAINOWTDI?
11:34 frettled Aha, I see what's going on, I confused the direction of the radix thingy.
11:34 jnthn cono: There's An Infiniate Number Of Ways To Do It
11:34 cono :D
11:34 jnthn *Infinite
11:34 moritz_ felliott: if you can figure out how to patch it, that would be awesome
11:34 felliott both return pir::<some string function>
11:34 moritz_ right
11:35 jnthn oh eww that bug
11:35 felliott I have a guess, but I'm not entirely sure...
11:35 moritz_ maybe add a ~ in front?
11:35 moritz_ rakudo: say pir::substr__SSII('foobar', 1, 2)
11:35 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«oo␤»
11:35 moritz_ rakudo: say pir::substr__SSII('foobar', 1, 2).trans
11:35 * jnthn adds this one to his list of "problems that go away when Rakudo stops using various Parrot PMCs as base classes for it's builtin types"
11:36 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«too few positional arguments: 1 passed, 2 (or more) expected␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/l8y45WPg8N␤»
11:36 felliott mortiz_: yes
11:36 moritz_ rakudo: say (~pir::substr__SSII('foobar', 1, 2)).trans
11:36 felliott I'm looking for a nopaste
11:36 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«oo␤»
11:36 moritz_ felliott: nopaste.snit.ch
11:36 felliott If that's really the fix, we can close  #76564 and #71088
11:37 felliott http://nopaste.snit.ch/22234
11:38 felliott I've also pushed it to github: http://github.com/felliott/rak​udo/tree/parrot_to_rakudo_str
11:38 moritz_ felliott: spectesting now with these changes
11:38 moritz_ felliott: if you want extra karma, you could make sure that we have tests for that in t/spec/integration/real-strings.t
11:38 felliott with it, I was able to unfudge 6 tests from spec/integration/real-strings.t
11:38 felliott :)
11:38 moritz_ ah :-)
11:38 felliott good timing.
11:38 colomon \o/
11:38 moritz_ no need for the parenthesis btw.
11:38 frettled Am I missing something, or is there simply not a builtin for printing something in an arbitrary base?
11:39 felliott Oh, thanks!
11:39 moritz_ frettled: I know that the other way is implemented
11:39 frettled moritz_: automated conversion into base 10 is implemented, yes.
11:40 felliott How should I submit a patch to the spec? Via rakudobug?
11:40 frettled moritz_: for some reason, I thought the output would be in the same base as specified with the adverbial
11:40 moritz_ felliott: you mean for t/spec/?
11:40 felliott yes
11:40 moritz_ felliott: just give me your email address (via private message if you prefer), and I can give you a commit bit. These tests are in the pugs repository.
11:41 felliott okay, thanks!
11:42 moritz_ felliott: invitation sent (you might need to remove the port number from the confirmation URL though)
11:43 moritz_ I haven't found a way to remove it from the email template :(
11:45 felliott moritz_: received!  thank you
11:45 * sorear <3 testsuites
11:46 moritz_ felliott: fix pushed, thank you very much. I haven't waited for the spectests to finish, but I'm pretty certain it doesn't break anything :-)
11:46 sorear hmm.  does perl 6 have unfolds?
11:46 felliott I ran them overnight and didn't see any breakage
11:46 * moritz_ is pretty proud of the spectests, even if he contributed only a tiny part of them
11:47 sorear even niecza's tiny internal testsuite has already saved me a couple months of labor
11:47 sorear so much subtle breakage caught by 'make test; leave terminal for a minute'
11:48 dalek rakudo: 4bf6c0f | moritz++ | src/core/ (2 files):
11:48 dalek rakudo: return Perl 6 strings from substr and join. Patch courtesy of felliott++
11:48 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4​bf6c0f7bd4fe3be4df2f2f11a8d09147a172ad6
11:49 dalek niecza: a10c69a | sorear++ |  (10 files):
11:49 dalek niecza: Heavily refactor and improve the functionality of packages.
11:49 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a​10c69a98031bd796cc4a0ef13e0a88cfae5eec5
11:51 frettled perl6: my $x = 54; say :13($x);
11:51 p6eval pugs, rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«69␤»
11:54 pugssvn r31792 | felliott++ | unfudge P6 strings tests, add tests for join  & substr
11:55 szabgab not good, the recording, after I converted it to avi thinks that it is 17 min long
11:55 dalek niecza: dc56884 | sorear++ |  (3 files):
11:55 dalek niecza: Implement module as a synonym for package
11:55 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/d​c5688473eec1694723f3a2b27a6538186e690e9
11:55 sorear Is it mandatory that Foo/Bar.pm contain a definition of Foo::Bar or Foo::Bar::* ?
11:56 moritz_ don't think so
11:57 au|irc sorear: not from the spec, no. the EXPORTALL can then fail though if it's loaded via use
11:58 au|irc but "need Foo::Bar" would work it seems
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12:17 szabgab the screencast did not come out well,
12:17 szabgab I hope you don't mind if I do it again
12:17 sorear why would we
12:18 tuxuday joined #perl6
12:19 au|irc . o O ("rakudo: sleep 30; say 2+2")
12:19 moritz_ rakudo: sleep 30; say 2+2
12:19 p6eval rakudo d1cd71:  ( no output )
12:20 screencast joined #perl6
12:20 * frettled attempted to phrase his stupidish radix/base question on p6l, maybe enlightenment is on the way.
12:20 screencast hi I am new to perl 6 I'll need some help
12:21 screencast how can I add two numbers and print to the screen?
12:21 jnthn rakudo: say 37 + 5
12:21 p6eval rakudo d1cd71: OUTPUT«42␤»
12:21 au|irc hugme: hug screencast
12:21 * hugme hugs screencast
12:22 screencast thank
12:22 au|irc np. in #perl6 you'll get the answer to life, universe & everything, plus a hug :)
12:24 moritz_ au|irc: in case it's not obvious, I wrote hugme after your "hug a troll" blog post :-)
12:25 au|irc yeah, I know. I'm honoured.
12:25 moritz_ I was just looking for a funny name for the add-github-contributors thing
12:26 szabgab ahhh
12:27 au|irc moritz++ # hugtastic, as mst++ would say
12:28 moritz_ lol
12:29 frettled au|irc: perhaps with a few more swearwords sprinkled around, for good measure
12:29 takadonet joined #perl6
12:30 takadonet morning all
12:30 frettled hugme: hug takadonet
12:30 * hugme hugs takadonet
12:31 au|irc frettled: very true, but that's what makes mst++ inimitable :)
12:32 takadonet .... thanks :)
12:32 frettled au|irc: yup, and I really like his style
12:32 frettled …mostly for being refreshingly different
12:33 au|irc =)
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12:41 * sorear has decided that {YOU_ARE_HERE} is just a really funny looking Whatever, and curries the entire module it's embedded in into a funny looking closure
12:44 moritz_ whatever. :-)
12:48 au|irc . o O ( {Total_Perspective_Vortex} )
12:49 sorear translation: I now know *exactly* how to implement custom settings
12:52 takadonet rakudo: my @a = <1 2 3>; say @a>>+2
12:52 p6eval rakudo 4bf6c0: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing << or >> at line 22, near "2"␤»
12:53 patrickas joined #perl6
12:56 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = <1 2 3>; say @a>>+<<2
12:56 p6eval rakudo 4bf6c0: OUTPUT«Sorry, sides are of uneven length and not dwimmy.␤  in 'hyper' at line 179:CORE.setting␤  in 'hyper' at line 211:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 1␤»
12:56 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = <1 2 3>; say @a>>+>>2
12:56 p6eval rakudo 4bf6c0: OUTPUT«345␤»
13:00 macroron joined #perl6
13:05 sorear keline?
13:06 takadonet moritz_: thanks :)
13:07 takadonet rakudo:my @a=<1 2 3>;say @a>>.say
13:07 takadonet rakudo: my @a=<1 2 3>;say @a>>.say
13:07 p6eval rakudo 4bf6c0: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤111␤»
13:07 takadonet is that a bug?
13:08 moritz_ doens't look like a bug to me
13:08 moritz_ what would you expect instead?
13:08 szabgab as I can see there is a growing number of tweets marked with #perl6
13:09 au|irc the screencasts is very effective :)
13:10 takadonet was is it printing 111 at the end?
13:10 takadonet s/was/why
13:10 moritz_ takadonet: you have two calls to say() in there
13:10 takadonet ...
13:10 takadonet moritz_:  I need a coffee
13:10 moritz_ takadonet: the .say method returns 1 for each array item
13:10 szabgab au|irc: you mean we see hundreds already joining the channel ? :)
13:11 takadonet moritz_: just ignore me please hehe
13:11 moritz_ 15:11 -!- Irssi: #perl6: Total of 191 nicks
13:11 moritz_ not too bad, if you ask me :-)
13:11 au|irc szabgab: maybe "join us on #perl6" has a localized meaning on twitter :)
13:11 au|irc (j/k, mostly)
13:12 szabgab it has a certain self references
13:12 moritz_ http://corky.net/dotan/log/​images/perl6-watchmen_a.jpg
13:13 moritz_ you can always ilnk to http://perl6.org/community/irc
13:13 au|irc szabgab: I like the sound of your keyboard. it sounds like a real keyboard :)
13:14 szabgab :)
13:15 moritz_ http://twitter.com/handraiser/status/19099769071 # I like this one
13:18 zulon joined #perl6
13:18 [Coke] (ugh. don't port File::Find to perl6!_
13:18 tadzik why not?
13:18 [particle] interface == suck
13:18 tadzik the original one?
13:18 [particle] try Class::Path or is it Path::Class
13:19 moritz_ isn't that something completely different?
13:19 tadzik sounds so
13:19 frettled But feel free to create something that a) works well and b) is a workable substitute for `find` ;)
13:19 [particle] no, it's based on File::Find, without the brain-dead interface
13:19 tadzik File::Find is like `find $where`
13:19 moritz_ wasn't that File::Find::Rule?
13:20 moritz_ [particle]: I think File::Find is a very useful directory iterator. It's just not what many people want
13:20 [particle] there's also File::Find::Rule, which is somewhat better than F:F
13:20 frettled Path::Class is nothing like File::Find
13:20 moritz_ frettled: iirc it's more like File::Spec, right?
13:21 frettled It seems to be, yes, I've never really had a use for any of them.
13:21 [particle] oops, yes, File::Spec. sigh, someone wake me up.
13:21 tadzik http://github.com/tadzik/perl6-File-Find # now without the 'interface == suck' "get the data you want from some global variables"
13:21 * moritz_ shakes some coffeine into [particle]
13:21 [particle] File::Find::Rule is the better interface to File::Find
13:22 au|irc actually, dir('...')->recurse() is comparable to File::Find :)
13:22 [Coke] (PGE) one version of partcl uses it, so it occasionally gets tested "in the real world", anyway.
13:22 au|irc but F::F::R has a better interface, yeah.
13:22 tadzik I was thinking about making File::Find something find(1) comparable
13:22 moritz_ tadzik: you shouldn't restrict $callback to Sub. Callable would be sufficient, I'd say
13:23 tadzik which, as far as I can see, is File::Find::Rule. Any reason why not to merge this two and have one good module for Perl 6?
13:23 tadzik moritz_: will fix, thank you moritz_++
13:23 moritz_ likewise there's no reason to restrict $dir to Str
13:23 [Coke] 16:56 < patrickas> oh ok ...
13:23 [Coke] 16:56 < Util> pmichaud, [Coke]: Thanks! Will push now
13:23 [Coke] 16:56 <@pmichaud> (mostly affects Rat arithmetic)  yes, but a single / automatically puts you into the realm of Rat arithmetic.  :-)
13:23 moritz_ dir() will stringify its argument anyway
13:25 moritz_ tadzik: also a single multi sub find(&callback, *@dirs) could replace the one
13:25 frettled Does F::F::R chdir() or not?
13:25 moritz_ it's configurable in the p5 File::Find
13:26 moritz_ to me it seems wrong to default to chdir()ing, because it's an application-wide process
13:26 frettled yep
13:26 moritz_ and since you're calling a callback, that itself could chdir, and screw up everything else
13:26 moritz_ reentrance safety ftw!
13:26 frettled I use F::F with no_chdir => 1, I was just wondering whether it was set to 0 or 1 in F::F::R, the docs don't say.
13:27 tadzik moritz_: sounds sane, will apply
13:27 * moritz_ calls it a day
13:27 PerlJam moritz++   IMHO we are in the "what can we add?" phase, while we should be in the "what can we take away?" design phase.
13:27 _macdaddy joined #perl6
13:27 frettled But as long as our F::F does the sane thing, I'm happy.
13:27 PerlJam good morning all
13:27 frettled tadzik++ for bothering
13:27 frettled PerlJam: \o
13:28 tadzik frettled: hey, I'm sitting here all the time asking silly questions, it would be really impolite to give nothing in return :)
13:28 tadzik also, what do you think of adding functionalities to File::Find instead of porting File::Find::Rule?
13:30 frettled Since today is the first time I read about F::F::R, I'm not sure, hee-hee.
13:31 dalek rakudo: 8c8b656 | Coke++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
13:31 dalek rakudo: add perl6-compiler, which masak++ noted was missing.
13:31 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8​c8b6569f0aeb5ff418eab6b17f1a2c24b56c54a
13:31 dalek rakudo: b2af272 | Coke++ | src/core/ (3 files):
13:31 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo
13:31 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b​2af272545f0f269144080d73004278e05185e69
13:31 tadzik I was thinking that File::Find may eventually be something more powerful than just a tool to call a callback on all the files in a directory
13:32 frettled I must admit that my use of File::Find has never been more than a Perl-internal way of handling find(1), rather than using a system call and processing that.
13:32 [Coke] urk. mispaste there for a few rows.
13:33 tadzik now when I see File::Find::Rule I see that it's actually hell useful, and I think it won't hurt File::Find itself to have such an awesome stuff in it itself
13:33 [Coke] My comment on file::find was just that i don't want to promulgate that interface anymore.
13:33 frettled So, basically, my needs for a file finding module is to get a list of files (with full relative or absolute path spec), based on selection criteria.  With File::Find I often ended up sending the test to a subroutine, with F::F::R I might actually use the builtins.
13:33 tadzik what interface?
13:33 M_o_C joined #perl6
13:34 PerlJam [Coke]++ amen to that
13:34 tadzik you mean the variables, [Coke]?
13:35 [Coke] I meant the whole thing. =-) but sure, the global variables are the worst.
13:35 frettled I guess it's the hash references and function references.
13:35 [Coke] ugh. I got a merge commit. how do I avoid that?
13:36 [Coke] (maybe it'll look nicer in p6, Iunno)
13:36 tadzik [Coke]: the globals are now gone and withdrew with much prettier Perl6 way
13:36 * [Coke] with withold judgement until he sees the module then! =-)
13:36 [Coke] s/with/will/
13:36 tadzik so, any objections to extending the functionality of File::Find with the rules like in File::Find::Rule?
13:36 frettled [Coke]: http://github.com/tadzik/perl6-File-Find
13:37 frettled tadzik: no objections from me, at least, I think the rules in F::F::R seem very useful.
13:37 tadzik now as I see F::F::R, F::F seems… poor
13:37 frettled yup
13:37 au|irc ☺ ☾ λ ӝ # g'night lambda butterflies... \o
13:38 frettled au|zzz: tee-hee, 'night!
13:39 a3r0 joined #perl6
13:39 tadzik I just _love_ commits like this
13:39 tadzik 1 files changed, 22 insertions(+), 30 deletions(-)
13:39 tadzik less code than before, and works better than before
13:39 frettled nice!
13:40 tadzik moritz_++ # nice ideas for sanity fixes
13:41 [Coke] it is amazing to me to contrast the positive energy in this group with the negative I see on p5p.
13:41 [Coke] (not that all of p5p is like that, but the lows are very low.)
13:41 PerlJam hugme: hug [Coke]
13:41 * hugme hugs [Coke]
13:41 [Coke] perl6++
13:41 PerlJam Coke: it's all the hugs  :)
13:42 [Coke] hugs--
13:43 mac Can some1 check this out? http://wklej.to/JEBC Maybe I missunderstand public/protected attributes in classes, then please explain me how it goes.
13:43 [Coke] ah, crap, forgot to update wikipedia.
13:43 [Coke] doing soo...
13:43 tadzik hugme: hugme
13:43 hugme tadzik:
13:44 tadzik hugme: oh you
13:44 [Coke] ... or now.
13:44 frettled [Coke]: Which Wikipedia article is that?
13:44 [particle] it's amazing to me that you even read p5p and still have enough energy to be positive
13:44 umphy joined #perl6
13:45 tadzik is p5p that bad?
13:45 sorear [Coke]: p5-p or #p5p?
13:45 [particle] [Coke]++ for completing the dual-release this month.  welcome to the club!
13:45 tadzik mac: is rw maybe?
13:45 tadzik mac: params are ro by default
13:46 [Coke] the mailing list.
13:46 PerlJam mac: careful calling "has $!bar" protected.  It's not at all like C++'s protected.
13:46 [Coke] frettled: Rakudo. someone updated, but I found a typo, so that's ok. sadly, they linked to the rakudo.org release which isn't mine. ah well.
13:47 [Coke] [particle]: (p5p) skim. occasional refeferences to Grants that come up that require attention.
13:47 mac Indeed, tadzik's right.
13:47 frettled [Coke]: aha!  good!
13:47 [Coke] [particle]: just ``fun'' trying to avoid the sniping and vitriol to get at the info in those posts. =-)
13:47 mac PerlJam: so how should I understand it?
13:47 umphy left #perl6
13:48 frettled mac: This one may help: http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/​day-11-classes-attributes-methods-and-more/
13:49 tadzik http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.​perl5.porters/2010/05/msg159781.html
13:49 tadzik this stabbed me one day when I stumbled upon p5p
13:49 tadzik „its more a general observation that *any* new feature will break perl in unexpected ways, due to the complexity of perl and the weird ways in which all its
13:49 tadzik component parts interact”
13:49 tadzik (whoops)
13:51 frettled tadzik: Schwern and Jesse are far more positive in their responses, though :)
13:51 mac frettled: thx, I'll check this
13:52 frettled mac: but don't hesitate to ask more questions, I just wanted to point you to the awesome advent calendar.
13:54 tadzik PerlJam: still, aren't they more like protected than like private? They're visible in the inheriting classes, aren't they?
13:55 mac Ok, thanks, this site looks like fair knowledge source
13:56 bphillips joined #perl6
13:56 au|zzz phenny: tell masak there's an extra Mu() in the "Operator overloading" section, line 4, between the sub and say, #fyi :)
13:56 phenny au|zzz: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
13:56 PerlJam szabgab++  I don't pay attention for a day and he's posted 2 more screen casts.
13:58 tadzik These great-yet-unoficiall documentation should be gathered somewhere. Advent calendar, moritz_++ Perl 5 to 6, szabgab++'s screencasts...
13:58 wolverian huh, weird, I don't see S12 specifying what "private" means.
13:58 perlygatekeeper joined #perl6
13:59 moritz_ tadzik: sure. Start it somewhere, others will chime in
14:00 sorear wolverian: Nothing
14:00 sorear Privacy in Perl is a cultural thing
14:00 tadzik moritz_: on the rakudo wiki maybe?
14:01 moritz_ tadzik: yes. Or in the 'star' repository
14:01 moritz_ hugme: add tadzik to star
14:01 * hugme hugs tadzik. Welcome to star!
14:01 wolverian sorear: are you saying $!foo attributes are seen by inheriting classes?
14:01 tadzik \o/
14:02 tadzik moritz_: so a pod in a Star repo?
14:02 moritz_ tadzik: yes
14:02 frettled tadzik: http://perl6.org/documentation/ has links to several thingies
14:02 moritz_ wolverian: they should not
14:02 tadzik will do
14:02 wolverian moritz_: that's some kind of privacy. as is the whole support for ! vs. .
14:03 tadzik frettled: yep, but no advent calendar, which is awesome. And even though, nice info included with R* is a great idea
14:03 PerlJam Is there a video of the state of the onion somewhere?
14:03 sorear wolverian: $! names don't automatically inherit, but you can access them qualified
14:03 sorear class Foo { has $!x } ; class Bar { method k { say $!Foo::x } }
14:04 wolverian ah, thanks. so it's kind of a mix between private and protected, then, as they are known in other languages?
14:04 moritz_ sorear: that requires and explict trust
14:04 moritz_ s/and/an/
14:05 wolverian that changes things. :)
14:05 wolverian tadzik: does that answer your question?
14:05 frettled tadzik: it's in the pugs source, docs/feather/perl6.org/sour​ce/documentation/index.html — do you have commit access to that?
14:05 tadzik frettled: nah
14:05 moritz_ time to change that
14:06 moritz_ tadzik: if you /msg me your email address, I'll give you a comimt bit
14:06 tadzik gee, I feel so important :]
14:07 moritz_ tadzik: invitation sent - please add yourself to AUTHORS in the first commit
14:08 tadzik so, is File::Find going into star?
14:08 tadzik moritz_: it's svn, right?
14:08 moritz_ (oh, I forgot to tell felliott__ the same)
14:08 moritz_ tadzik: sure, why not?
14:08 tadzik moritz_: Just asking to be sure, nothing against it
14:08 tadzik I'll have to learn to use that :)
14:09 moritz_ let me re-iterate that everybody who has commit access to the pugs repo can also invite new committers at http://commitbit.pugscode.or​g/admin/project/Pugs/people
14:09 frettled tadzik: I'll cobble together a quickref for you
14:09 moritz_ can and should
14:09 tadzik frettled++ # thank you!
14:10 tadzik moritz_: oh, your "why not?" was about File::Find, not svn at pugs?
14:10 moritz_ tadzik: yes
14:10 tadzik multithreaded talk with the same person causes race conditions
14:10 moritz_ aye :-)
14:11 moritz_ tadzik: the general opinion is that all modules that are useful to a somewhat wider audience (and that work with Rakudo) should go into R*
14:11 tadzik I see
14:12 tadzik just to be sure, docs with R* are to be written in Pod6?
14:12 ashleydev joined #perl6
14:12 * moritz_ has no idea how docs will be managed
14:13 tadzik so far announcement is plaintext, I'll go for plaintext to, there will be time to unify it later
14:13 frettled tadzik: http://pastebin.com/FqkM1vm8
14:14 tadzik frettled++
14:14 frettled It does not help you resolve conflicts and such, but it's okay for getting started.
14:14 frettled You're welcome!
14:14 mac sorear: could you answer it, to be sure. Private fields can be accessed (like protected in other langs) by the class name and private accessor ($!), like: $!ClassName::field, am I right?
14:15 * [particle] is feeling more awake
14:16 frettled [particle]: almost, ahem, excited?  :)
14:17 frettled Physics jokes are under-appreciated.  :(
14:17 sorear mac: I think so
14:18 wolverian moritz_ said that only works if the class trusts the accessing class.
14:18 wolverian which I think is correct from reading S12, but I'm not sure. :(
14:18 jnthn mac: As far as I know, only if the class declares itself as "trusts OtherClass"
14:18 jnthn mac: Rakudo currently gives attributes protected visibility rather than the private they should have.
14:19 sorear I don't really see the point in implementing that
14:19 mac Uhmm... Where to declare "trusts"? In the header of class?
14:19 mac class name trusts someOtherClass {
14:19 mac ?
14:19 sorear monkey typing renders all "security" a joke
14:19 jnthn No, just
14:19 jnthn class Foo { trusts Blah; }
14:19 jnthn iirc
14:20 jnthn Oh, maybe it's a trait...I forget off hand.
14:20 mac woo, now I feel important too ;)
14:20 moritz_ sorear: in the end there will be some introspection mechanisms for getting foreign attributes anyway
14:20 frettled sorear: It's not quite a joke, because enabling monkey typing means that you're indicating that Here Be Monkeys.
14:20 jnthn Anyway, Rakudo will get this right when the meta-model foundations get re-done.
14:20 mac jnthn: kk thanks
14:20 * frettled scratches its head, eats a banana, and makes noises.
14:21 jnthn And at the same time when reference to an attribute not declared inside the class you're currently working in will be a compile time error.
14:21 PerlJam besides ... without monkey typing, how are we going to port all that ruby code over to Perl 6   ;-)
14:21 moritz_ it's a bit like inside-out objects in p5 - it's not "secure", but it's quite a barrier
14:21 frettled PerlJam++
14:21 jnthn So we catch typos.
14:21 jnthn yay, I have my cinameon bun back!
14:21 frettled jnthn: bun party!
14:22 jnthn omnomnom@@@
14:22 cruftius_minimus joined #perl6
14:23 mac One more question, if can ;) I'm in doubt with handles. I`ve read example from advent and I'm thinking over if it's possible to "bind" whole methods from that class which I "handles", or just those which I "whitelist"? Because there is written "Renaming is just one option that is available; the delegation syntax offers many other alternatives."
14:24 mac my $bob = DogWalker.new(name => 'Bob', dog => $fido); - is there any other way to "bind" methods from other class into mine?
14:24 tadzik will the specs be included in R*?
14:25 moritz_ mac: 'handles' is more like forewarding, not binding
14:25 jnthn moritz_: handles works in two ways. In one, it generates forwarder methods. In the other, it says "if you search the class hierarchy and find no matching methods, check if you can forward to one of these instead"
14:26 jnthn er
14:26 jnthn mac
14:26 jnthn :-)
14:26 jnthn The m-space is ever crowded. :-)
14:26 frettled UTF-8 nicks FTW?
14:27 jnthn irc is too aulde to handle 'em. :-(
14:27 mac Ok, thanks, after dinner I'll check this ;)
14:27 [particle] auld lang sirc
14:27 jnthn 16:34 [freenode] -!- джнтн Erroneous Nickname
14:28 jnthn :-(
14:28 moritz_ mac: ou might want to check t/spec/S12-attributes/delegation.t
14:28 moritz_ *you
14:28 PerlJam jnthn: Does rakudo's "handles" ... er, handle all of the same things as Moose yet?
14:28 jnthn PerlJam: I don't know all of the things Moose's one handles
14:28 PerlJam I guess I should read S12 to see where the intersections are anyway
14:28 jnthn PerlJam: It handles quite a lot of cases though.
14:29 jnthn PerlJam: See also to the test file moritz_ just mentioned.
14:29 jnthn For what Rakudo actually implements
14:29 PerlJam aye
14:29 jnthn iirc we the whole test file.
14:29 * moritz_ is glad that the special cases for array and hash attributes in conjunction with 'handles' are gone
14:29 jnthn But not quite the whole spec
14:29 jnthn moritz_: ME TOO! \o/
14:29 jnthn moritz_: It made it a LOT less of a PITA to implement.
14:29 jnthn Well, not that I didn't once implement the other cases too...
14:29 moritz_ jnthn: and much nicer to use, too :-)
14:30 jnthn Yeah, quite
14:30 jnthn Was a bit too magic.
14:30 mathw special cases are usually bad
14:30 tadzik lolipushed: http://github.com/rakudo/star
14:30 mathw which makes me think, is there a method by which a user-defined class which does Positional can indicate how it can autovivify?
14:31 moritz_ mathw: WHENCE
14:31 tadzik You might want to review this: http://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/30​1009a9a35cb3a68b79c0db71db1ff4e0381ccf
14:31 moritz_ tadzik++
14:32 mathw moritz_: excellent
14:32 tadzik fine :)
14:32 moritz_ I see you also updated download-stuff.pl. Very good.
14:32 tadzik yep
14:35 tadzik moritz_: line #45 could also be removed now, no?
14:35 moritz_ tadzik: yes; I'm updating that file anyway
14:38 tadzik frettled: nice cheatsheet, but how do I initally clone the repo? svn co?
14:38 moritz_ svn co
14:39 tadzik moritz_: I got the invitation, but the link for setting the password seems dead
14:39 sorear oh man this is so surreal.
14:39 moritz_ tadzik: remove the port number from the link
14:40 tadzik alright, works
14:40 [Coke] bug handling... should we be using new to mean "tickets no one has vetted yet", and open to mean "yes, this is an issue of some kind" ?
14:40 [Coke] at the moment, new+open is just one big pile, afaict.
14:40 moritz_ right
14:40 jnthn [Coke]: We haven't tended to do that.
14:41 jnthn [Coke]: If a ticket is not worth of attention, reviewer can reject it.
14:43 squeeky joined #perl6
14:44 zulon joined #perl6
14:44 [Coke] I may open a few a new-tickets-I-think-are-bugs.
14:44 [Coke] nothing to see here.
14:44 [Coke] (it will be helpful, I think, as we get more reports from non-devs)
14:45 [Coke] rakudo: my %h; %h<one><two> = 1; %h.perl.say
14:45 p6eval rakudo 4bf6c0: OUTPUT«{"one" => {"two" => 1}}␤»
14:46 azert0x joined #perl6
14:50 [Coke] rakudo: (368 + 274 +5).say
14:50 p6eval rakudo 4bf6c0: OUTPUT«647␤»
14:51 moritz_ buubot: eval: $^O
14:51 buubot moritz_: linux
14:51 [Coke] pmichaud, jnthn: permission to close 49171? seems like the ROADMAP is getting more use than that ticket.
14:51 [Coke] (I'd rather use the builtin priority field, anyways, if we're going to track that in RT)
14:52 moritz_ [Coke]: ask pmichaud, he seems to be the main user
14:52 ab5tract rakudo: my %h; %h<for> = "the"; %h<love> = "of"; %h<perl> = 6; %h.say
14:52 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«love       ofperl  6for    the␤»
14:52 ab5tract rakudo: my %h; %h<for> = "the"; %h<love> = "of"; %h<perl> = 6; %h.perl.say
14:52 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«{"love" => "of", "perl" => 6, "for" => "the"}␤»
14:52 [Coke] moritz_: I just did?
14:52 [Coke] jnthn: can you change the summary of RT#50118 to match the current "left to do" ?
14:52 moritz_ [Coke]: oh, I only read the 'jnthn' part, sorry
14:53 gbacon joined #perl6
14:54 jnthn [Coke]: Opened it to glance at later.
14:54 jnthn (Got $dayjob bits going on ATM. :-))
14:58 [Coke] can someone with a checkout of the spectests add a marker for RT#58018 to the fudged __cmp tests?
14:58 ktne joined #perl6
14:59 pugssvn r31793 | moritz++ | [t/spec] add RT #58018 marker to tests in range.t
14:59 [particle] whenever did $dayjob become a priority around here?
14:59 shade_ joined #perl6
15:00 [Coke] moritz_++
15:00 [particle] ...for me, it was over a year ago.
15:00 felliott joined #perl6
15:03 jnthn [particle]: I'm trying to keep the two in balance somewhat. :-)
15:03 jnthn [particle]: Even if the allure to just hack on Rakudo all the time is strong. :-)
15:03 traqy joined #perl6
15:03 [particle] i miss it greatly
15:10 [Coke] moritz_: I'm assigning some tickets to you, for great justice.
15:10 * mac is afk
15:10 moritz_ [Coke]: yes, I've seen it :-)
15:11 moritz_ I've closed the REPL thing without tests, because it's not in the spec, and we don't have a good way for non-spec tests in rakudo
15:11 [Coke] rakudo: say 10000000[1]
15:11 p6eval rakudo b2af27:  ( no output )
15:11 [Coke] moritz_: 'sfine, I trust your judgement on those or i'd not have assigned them to you. =-)
15:12 moritz_ :-)
15:12 levon joined #perl6
15:13 pyrimidine joined #perl6
15:13 TimToady sorear, pmurias: I'm fine with naming any XXX to STD::XXX except for STD itself :)
15:13 phenny TimToady: 05:26Z <sorear> tell TimToady It's possibly to confuse STD.pm6 into setting up a package as the OUTER:: of a lexical scope.  Try package Foo { my $x = 2; }; package Foo::Bar { say $x }
15:13 phenny TimToady: 05:27Z <sorear> tell TimToady STD.pm6 line 5547 appears to be involved, but I'm not very knowledgable on the $*CURLEX handling
15:14 * TimToady ==> @oscon
15:14 frettled TimToady: and is it good?
15:17 moritz_ I've just pushed a build script to the 'star' repo
15:17 moritz_ on my machine it successfully builds rakudo, puts it into the local $PATH, and runs a small sanity check
15:17 jnthn rakudo: sub TimToady { <awesomeness skillz> }; my @oscon; TimToady ==> @oscon; say @oscon.perl;
15:17 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«["awesomeness", "skillz"]␤»
15:18 moritz_ next up: installing ufo and modules
15:18 pugssvn r31794 | moritz++ | [t/spec] unfudge some range tests, [Coke]++
15:18 jnthn moritz_: For module installation
15:18 jnthn moritz_: It occured to me that if we hack up a way to copy the modules into the pls "cache" directory and scribble a project file that claims they are fetched
15:19 jnthn moritz_: Then we can just pls them the rest of the way.
15:19 moritz_ jnthn: oh, nice idea
15:19 moritz_ anyway, I think I should by some food before continuing
15:22 sftp joined #perl6
15:23 cxreg jnthn: shockingly enough, my github id is cxreg :)
15:23 jnthn cxreg: And it was...Zavolaj you wanted to commit to?
15:24 cxreg well, I pushed to a fork and mberends++ merged it
15:24 cxreg so i'm good for now
15:24 moritz_ hugme: list
15:24 moritz_ hugme: list projects
15:24 hugme moritz_: I know about Math-Model, Math-RungeKutta, MiniDBI, book, gge, hugme, ilbot, java2perl6, json, modules.perl6.org, november, nqp-rx, nqpbook, perl6-examples, perl6-wtop, process-cmd-args, proto, pugs, star, svg-matchdumper, svg-plot, tardis, temporal-flux-perl6syn, try.rakudo.org, tufte, ufo, web, yapsi
15:25 jedai joined #perl6
15:30 [Coke] moritz_: just "Coke" is fine. (IHF!)
15:31 moritz_ phenny: ask masak if temporal-flux-perl6syn still needs to be in the hugme projects list
15:31 phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
15:35 * [Coke] offers [particle] some koohii
15:35 * [Coke] is pretty sure no kana on this kb.
15:38 wagnerf joined #perl6
15:39 wagnerf hi, would anyone know how to use opendir in perl6 or where to look for documentation ?
15:39 wagnerf i'm begining a little bit
15:40 dalek niecza: a7a25a2 | sorear++ |  (12 files):
15:40 dalek niecza: Refactor initialization procedure
15:40 dalek niecza: This lays the groundwork for modules and custom settings, and brings our
15:40 dalek niecza: handling of CORE.setting much closer to STD.
15:40 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a​7a25a2d15816e8d88af00965c3f551040809d68
15:40 jnthn wagnerf: There's no opendir/readdir/closedir - just use the "dir" function.
15:40 moritz_ wagnerf: dir() returns a list of files in the current directory
15:40 jnthn wagnerf: If you want to iterate over the directories, do for dir() { ... }
15:40 jnthn Or for dir() -> $filename { ... }
15:40 wagnerf thanks a lot
15:40 jnthn I think it also takes a regex too, moritz_?
15:41 moritz_ yes
15:41 wagnerf ha good, i also have some globs to do
15:41 moritz_ dir(/\.txt$/)
15:41 wagnerf thanks
15:41 ashleydev joined #perl6
15:42 jnthn moritz_: Nice :-)
15:45 zostay joined #perl6
15:54 felliott joined #perl6
15:54 grussell joined #perl6
15:56 am0c joined #perl6
15:57 [Coke] takes regex, or glbo?
15:57 * [Coke] is used to glob from ... everywhere.
15:57 moritz_ [Coke]: anything that smartmatches, really
15:58 am0c ..
16:03 xinming joined #perl6
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16:08 Trashlord joined #perl6
16:13 moritz_ ouch. SVG::Plot segfaults.
16:14 eternaleye joined #perl6
16:15 moritz_ rakudo: BEGIN { @*INC.push: 'lib' }; use Test
16:15 p6eval rakudo b2af27:  ( no output )
16:15 moritz_ rakudo: BEGIN { @*INC.push: 'lib' }; use Test; say "alive"
16:15 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«alive␤»
16:20 cognomore joined #perl6
16:24 justatheory joined #perl6
16:30 moritz_ disaster
16:31 moritz_ http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=76692
16:32 takadonet not good
16:33 jnthn ffs
16:34 jnthn moritz_: Wehre's the script that crashes it?
16:35 jnthn Ah, I need to install SVG::Plot
16:35 moritz_ which in turn requires xml-writer and SVG
16:36 jnthn argh
16:36 jnthn OK
16:36 moritz_ I thought you had pls working? :-)
16:37 jnthn pls itself "works"
16:37 jnthn It then writes a Makefile that has no chance of working on nmake
16:38 jnthn The more I think about it, the less I want an installer doing makefile generation.
16:38 jnthn But I know @other feel different
16:38 moritz_ does it write the makefiles itself? or does it delegate to ufo?
16:38 * moritz_ is all in favor of ditching makefiles
16:40 jnthn moritz_: It writes it itself.
16:40 jnthn Writing a file that we're going to struggle to make right on multiple systems, which in turn just runs commands, feels silly to me. We may as well just run the commands.
16:40 moritz_ jnthn: fwiw, precompilation is not necessary to reproduce the segfault
16:40 PacoLinux joined #perl6
16:41 jnthn ufo I can see the point of generating a Makefile
16:41 jnthn You want to just compile the bits you need and that have dependencies etc.
16:41 jnthn But for installing, we're just going to compile the whole thing once and install it.
16:42 moritz_ akshually if I recompile SVG::Plot, but not the dependencies, it segfaults
16:42 jnthn moritz_: OK. When I first saw the stacktrace I thought "ah, it blows up in the binder, so this'll be easy"
16:42 moritz_ oh
16:42 jnthn moritz_: Sadly though, the binder is in the stacktrace but it's unlikely it's relevant.
16:42 moritz_ even with removing all .pir files it segfaults from time to time
16:42 jnthn moritz_: The segfault happens in the GC proccess
16:42 [Coke] jnthn: the reason to use makefiles is so you don't have to rewrite make.
16:43 jnthn [Coke]: We don't *need* make!!!
16:43 jnthn (for this)
16:43 [Coke] if we don't need all of make... ok. but I don't want "Perl 6 Ant"
16:43 jnthn [Coke]: The Makefile we generate just runs a bunch of commands.
16:43 jnthn [Coke]: If projects want to ship a Makfeile, they can and pls runs it.
16:43 [Coke] no dependency resolution, etc?
16:44 jnthn [Coke]: Yes but to generate the Makefile we already had to do the dependency resolution.
16:44 jnthn [Coke]: That is, we determine what depends on what, and then write a Makefile with that inforamtion in it, and run it.
16:44 jnthn So we're not getting Make to do much other than re-compute an ordering that was already computed. :-)
16:44 jnthn In general I agree totally - don't re-invent make.
16:44 [Coke] "make -j"
16:45 moritz_ [Coke]: will fail
16:45 [Coke] ... but I see your point.
16:45 [Coke] moritz_: then you're not doing the deps right? =-)
16:45 [Coke] but as long as in general jnthn agrees I'm going back tow ork. =_)
16:45 moritz_ [Coke]: no, so far only writing the production rules in the right order, or something
16:45 jnthn Anyway, I can try and fix the Makefile first.
16:46 jnthn It just feels like using a tool for the sake of it here though, that's all.
16:46 [Coke] jnthn: no, you write core code instead. :P
16:48 jnthn [Coke]: I'd love to, but nobody else has jumped in to hack on Win32 support for pls. :-( And I'd rather we didn't ship something broken on such a widely deployed OS. :-)
16:49 jnthn moritz_: Is the backtrace always the same?
16:50 Leonidas is it possible that the current release of rakudo lacks Configure?
16:51 moritz_ jnthn: not quite
16:51 moritz_ Leonidas: there should be Configure.pl
16:51 jnthn moritz_: Got any more examples?
16:51 Leonidas moritz_: I am trying to install Web
16:51 moritz_ jnthn: http://nopaste.snit.ch/22239
16:51 jnthn moritz_: thanks
16:51 moritz_ Leonidas: oh, I don't think  that works with current Rakudo
16:52 Leonidas moritz_: http://nopaste.snit.ch/paste
16:52 Leonidas heh
16:52 moritz_ Leonidas: that URL doesn't contain a paste
16:53 Leonidas moritz_: sorry, I copied the url without looking, the proper url is http://nopaste.snit.ch/22240
16:53 jnthn moritz_: Hmm. The binder is in the trace again, but in a different place.
16:53 moritz_ jnthn: want more traces?
16:53 jnthn moritz_: Yeah
16:53 sorear Leonidas: Configure is Perl 5, @*INC is Perl 6
16:53 jnthn moritz_: I'm still trying to get a feel for if the binder is certainly to blame or if it just happens to be in the stack traces.
16:54 moritz_ sorear: rakudo alpha + proto also had a Configure.pm
16:54 Leonidas sorear: so how to I install Web? I thought that Web was Perl 6 only.
16:55 moritz_ iirc you need the January release of Rakudo, and proto
16:55 moritz_ jnthn: next backtrace infinite-loops in Parrot_gc_mark_PMC_alive_fun -> Parrot_FixedPMCArray_mark
16:55 moritz_ jnthn: and the binder is in the BT, again
16:55 cdarroch joined #perl6
16:55 cdarroch joined #perl6
16:55 Leonidas hmm, I think I'm going to wait for rakudo star
16:56 moritz_ jnthn: http://nopaste.snit.ch/22241
16:56 xinming_ joined #perl6
16:57 sorear moritz_: jnthn: Are you sure this isn't the same lazy list bug?
16:58 moritz_ and another one: http://nopaste.snit.ch/22242
16:58 moritz_ that seems to be at cleanup
17:00 jnthn sorear: The one that results in deep recursive marks?
17:00 sorear yes
17:00 jnthn sorear: That eventually blow the C stack?
17:00 sorear yes
17:00 jnthn sorear: I'm not convinced because in what moritz_ has shown me so far, three of them were only 20 frames deep or so.
17:00 sorear oh.
17:01 moritz_ right, only one was larger
17:01 jnthn All of them seem to have hash destruction in common.
17:01 jnthn Apart from the longer one which has hash marking as the top frame.
17:02 jnthn That they all go through the binder is somewhat suggestive though.
17:02 moritz_ just got another one with 1155 frames
17:02 jnthn moritz_: Is the top hash-y at all?
17:03 moritz_ jnthn: lots of marking in there, one of them hash
17:03 moritz_ http://nopaste.snit.ch/22244
17:04 moritz_ another one from the binder
17:05 jnthn moritz_: I don't see the binder in that last one?
17:06 moritz_ jnthn: http://nopaste.snit.ch/22245 two more that involve the binder
17:06 jnthn moritz_: OK. I think we're probably beyond the point where it's just chance then.
17:07 timbunce joined #perl6
17:07 jnthn moritz_: Seems it's always about the binder and hash.
17:09 jnthn moritz_: Working on re-producing it here.
17:10 [Coke] std: / <[a-z]> /
17:10 p6eval std 31794: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unsupported use of - as character range; in Perl 6 please use .. at /tmp/lqLPfKUdfV line 1:␤------> [32m/ <[a-z[33m⏏[31m]> /[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 116m␤»
17:10 moritz_ rakudo: /<[a-b]>/
17:10 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Obsolete use of hyphen in enumerated character class;in Perl 6 please use .. instead at line 22, near "b]>/"␤»
17:10 justatheory joined #perl6
17:11 ashleydev joined #perl6
17:11 [Coke] RT#69682 is probably very near closable.
17:14 mscha joined #perl6
17:14 mscha rakudo: say 0..9.pick(*);
17:14 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«0123456789␤»
17:14 mscha rakudo: say (0..9).pick(*);
17:15 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«3745680912␤»
17:15 mscha rakudo: say (0..*).pick(*);
17:15 p6eval rakudo b2af27:  ( no output )
17:15 mscha :-(
17:15 mscha rakudo: say (0..*).pick(2);
17:16 p6eval rakudo b2af27:  ( no output )
17:16 tadzik Unlike other languages, Perl assumes that novices will eventually learn how to read code.
17:16 tadzik I like this one
17:17 jnthn Wouldn't the probability of an random number between 0 and infinity being something that your computer could represent without running out of memory be infinitely small? :-)
17:18 PerlJam jnthn: 5 <--  there's my random number between 0 and infinity. I randomly choose it all the time  :-)
17:18 TimToady jnthn: the probably of a random number between 0 and 1 being representable is infinitesimal
17:18 jnthn TimToady: I shoulda said integer. :P
17:19 jnthn sub rand { 4 #`picked by dice role, totally random!` }
17:20 mscha rakudo: for (1..100) { print [+] (1..6).pick(2, :replace), " "; }
17:20 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«35961272457969954766668486661029668810117​45377107348737658692888861048788947127445867105»
17:21 mscha rakudo: for (1..100) { print [+] (1..6).pick(2, :replace); print " "; }
17:21 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«6 5 12 3 8 3 7 10 6 4 7 6 11 4 3 3 8 7 11 11 11 9 3 7 4 5 7 12 2 4 11 6 7 9 8 7 3 6 2 5 4 10 8 9 8 4 6 3 4 5 4 5 6 5 9 8 8 9 6 6 8 7 6 11 6 4 11 10 9 6 8 9 10 7 9 4 3 5 9 9 3 7 9 5 5 7 2 9 12 9 9 9 8 »
17:22 PerlJam rakudo: for 1..100 { [+] (1..6).pick(2, :replace); }.classify(*.Int).Str.say
17:22 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "for 1..100"␤»
17:23 PerlJam rakudo: (for 1..100 { [+] (1..6).pick(2, :replace); }).classify(*.Int).Str.say
17:23 colomon rakudo: (1..100).map({ [+] (1..6).pick(2, :replace); } ).sort.Str.say
17:23 mscha rakudo: sub hello(Str $planet) { say "Hello, { $planet.ucfirst }!" } hello('world');
17:23 jnthn moritz_: Where is synopsis.pl from? I don't see it in http://github.com/moritz/svg-plot
17:23 p6eval rakudo b2af27:  ( no output )
17:23 p6eval rakudo b2af27:  ( no output )
17:23 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "sub hello("␤»
17:24 jnthn mscha: Need a ; after the } of the sub
17:25 mscha rakudo: sub hello(Str $planet) { say "Hello, { $planet.ucfirst }!" }; hello('world');
17:25 PerlJam rakudo:  (for 1..10 { $_ + 3 }).say
17:25 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«Hello, World!␤»
17:25 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«␤»
17:25 jnthn mscha: BTW, you could also write:
17:25 jnthn rakudo: sub hello(Str $planet) { say "Hello, $planet.ucfirst()!@ }; hello('world');
17:25 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Non-variable $ must be backslashed at line 22, near "$planet.uc"␤»
17:25 jnthn gah!
17:25 jnthn rakudo: sub hello(Str $planet) { say "Hello, $planet.ucfirst()!" }; hello('world');
17:26 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«Hello, World!␤»
17:26 * sorear really likes the command line niecza_eval --language=NULL -c CORE.setting for some reason
17:27 moritz_ jnthn: it's the example from the POD in lib/SVG/Plot.pm
17:27 [Coke] wozzit do?
17:27 [Coke] (sorear)
17:28 jnthn moritz_: found it
17:28 sorear compiles my setting, as a single module, without linking the standard setting (CORE)
17:29 jnthn moritz_: gah :-(
17:29 jnthn moritz_: I get...a load of svg output.
17:29 mscha rakudo: say gather for 0..10 { take (1..6).pick(2, :replace) }
17:29 jnthn moritz_: And no segfault.
17:29 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«3361115242153241545451␤»
17:29 jnthn moritz_: That's with nothing pre-compiled.
17:29 mscha rakudo: say gather for 0..10 { take (1..6).pick(2, :replace) }.join(', ');
17:29 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say gather"␤»
17:30 mscha rakudo: my @a = gather for 0..10 { take (1..6).pick(2, :replace) }; say @a.join(', ');
17:30 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«6, 4, 5, 4, 5, 3, 2, 2, 1, 4, 6, 2, 5, 4, 1, 3, 2, 1, 4, 5, 5, 4␤»
17:31 moritz_ jnthn: try running it a few times
17:31 mscha rakudo: my @a = gather for 0..10 { take (1..6).pick(2, :replace) }; say @a.classify(*).join(', ');
17:31 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«1  3 4 1 1 4 1 5 4 4 2 6 5 5 1 3 3 5 2 2 3 2 6␤»
17:31 jnthn moritz_: worked a second time too :-(
17:31 tylercurtis joined #perl6
17:31 jnthn moritz_: Let me try under the debugger
17:31 moritz_ :(
17:31 mscha rakudo: my @a = gather for 0..10 { take (1..6).pick(2, :replace) }; say @a.classify(*).perl;
17:31 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«("1" => [3, 6, 3, 4, 4, 3, 5, 6, 4, 5, 1, 3, 3, 5, 3, 5, 3, 4, 3, 4, 1, 6])␤»
17:32 mscha rakudo: my @a = gather for 0..10 { take (1..6).pick(2, :replace) }; say @a.classify(*.Int).perl;
17:32 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«("3" => [3, 3, 3, 3], "4" => [4, 4, 4, 4], "5" => [5, 5, 5], "6" => [6, 6], "1" => [1, 1, 1, 1], "2" => [2, 2, 2, 2, 2])␤»
17:32 jnthn moritz_: Aha!
17:32 jnthn moritz_: The debug memory libs found heap corruption or some such.
17:33 cognomore joined #perl6
17:34 moritz_ "cool"
17:36 mscha rakudo: my @a = gather for 0..10 { take [+] (1..6).pick(2, :replace) }; say @a.classify(*.Int).perl;
17:36 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«("5" => [5, 5], "6" => [6, 6, 6, 6], "7" => [7], "8" => [8], "10" => [10, 10], "9" => [9])␤»
17:36 dalek niecza: 92aafc8 | sorear++ |  (4 files):
17:36 dalek niecza: Unify handling of setting and programs in CompilerDriver
17:36 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/9​2aafc83c1d57ab2f7cbe7cc09681327945598db
17:36 dalek niecza: c37e91c | sorear++ |  (4 files):
17:36 dalek niecza: Extend niecza_eval with the ability to compile libraries and settings, and use
17:36 dalek niecza: custom settings
17:36 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c​37e91ce0058a797ee35d9b2594bf17dfaefc383
17:37 sorear does this make niecza the first implementation to fully implement --language?
17:37 moritz_ probably :-)
17:37 jnthn Oh wow. interp->mem_pools points into invalid memory
17:37 japhb joined #perl6
17:38 jnthn er...and it appears to be trying to allocate something 136,204,424 bytes big?!
17:38 mscha rakudo: my @a = gather for 0..10 { take [+] (1..6).pick(2, :replace) }; say @a.classify(*.Int).map({ .key => scalar(.value) }).perl;
17:38 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«Method 'key' not found for invocant of class ''␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/s84Ky3jHt7␤»
17:38 lue goodnow citizens o/
17:38 TimToady if [op] is reduce, what does rakudo use for the internal definition of [\op]?
17:39 moritz_ TimToady: reducewith(:triangle)
17:39 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = gather for 0..10 { take [+] (1..6).pick(2, :replace) }; say @a.classify(*.Int).map({; .key => +.value}).perl
17:39 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«("7" => 2, "8" => 2, "9" => 1, "10" => 2, "5" => 3, "6" => 1)␤»
17:40 moritz_ mscha: it interpreted the block as a hash constructor
17:40 mscha Ah, thanks.
17:40 TimToady I think it's a mistake to do that with an option
17:41 TimToady means reduce doesn't have a consistent return type
17:41 mscha rakudo: (gather for 0..100 { take [+] (1..6).pick(2, :replace) }).classify(*.Int).map({ .key => scalar(.value) }).perl.say;
17:41 tadzik rakudo: say 'ok' if "0"
17:41 p6eval rakudo b2af27:  ( no output )
17:41 p6eval rakudo b2af27:  ( no output )
17:41 tadzik :(
17:47 jnthn moritz_: Ugh. This is going to take some finding. :-/
17:47 jnthn moritz_: I get it blowing up in different ways on different runs too.
17:47 tadzik rakudo: say "a string"[3] # why so fatal?
17:47 p6eval rakudo b2af27:  ( no output )
17:47 tadzik crashes the REPL here. Normal?
17:51 * PerlJam wonders if .3 could be made to work like .[3]  ala TT
17:52 TimToady all things are possible, but not all things are expedient
17:53 tadzik rakudo: my $what = "foobar"; $what .= substr(2).chop; say $what
17:53 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "$what .= s"␤»
17:53 tadzik why?
17:53 * jnthn -> dinner
17:56 tadzik std: my $what = "foobar"; $what .= substr(2).chop;
17:56 p6eval std 31794: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Method call found where infix expected (omit whitespace?) at /tmp/8G9dd4TH80 line 1:␤------> [32mmy $what = "foobar"; $what .= substr(2)[33m⏏[31m.chop;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤   argument list␤    infix or meta-infix␤      method arguments␤
17:56 p6eval ..prefix or term␤…
17:56 tadzik hmm
17:56 [Coke] tadzik: . isn't string concat: that's ~
17:56 tadzik [Coke]: I didn't mean concat, I mean method call
17:56 tadzik $what .= substr(2) is ok, but adding .chop spoils everything
17:58 TimToady odd
17:59 [Coke] rakudo: my $what = "foobar"; ($what .= substr(2)).chop; say $what #?
17:59 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«obar␤»
17:59 TimToady std: my $what = "foobar"; ($what .= substr(2)).chop;
17:59 p6eval std 31794: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
18:00 macroron joined #perl6
18:00 [Coke] yah, I suspect that you can't chop the substr when it's just hanging there.
18:00 oha joined #perl6
18:01 [Coke] rakudo: "foobar".chop()
18:01 p6eval rakudo b2af27:  ( no output )
18:01 [Coke] rakudo: "foobar".chop().say
18:01 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«fooba␤»
18:02 TimToady std: my $what = "foobar"; $what.=substr(2).chop;
18:02 p6eval std 31794: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
18:02 TimToady that also works
18:02 tadzik without whitespace?
18:02 [Coke] rakudo: my $what = "foobar"; $what.=substr(2).chop;
18:02 tadzik Weird, why so?
18:02 TimToady parsed as a postfix rather than fake infix
18:02 p6eval rakudo b2af27:  ( no output )
18:03 [Coke] rakudo: my $what = "foobar"; $what.=substr(2).chop.say
18:03 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«oba␤»
18:03 mberends joined #perl6
18:04 tadzik still weird imho
18:04 oha sorry i've found something strange on rakudo while using grammar
18:04 mberends left #perl6
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18:05 oha it seems an heisenbug, sometimes they match correctly, but the Match object .caps aren't always "complete"
18:05 PerlJam oha: why are you sorry about it?  Rejoice! you're helping improve things (either improve your understanding or improve rakudo)
18:05 oha PerlJam, sorry for the intrusion, i saw you were already speaking.
18:06 PerlJam ah.  No worries there either.  We're a friendly bunch who don't mind interruption  :)
18:06 tadzik rakudo: my $what = "foobar"; $what.=substr(1).chop.say
18:06 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«ooba␤»
18:06 tadzik oh
18:07 PerlJam oha: anyhow ... got the code somewhere where we can see it?
18:07 oha lemme find a place
18:08 [Coke] nopaste.snit.ch works, or a gist @ github.
18:08 [Coke] (though the nopaste site is not hooked up to this channel.)
18:08 justatheory joined #perl6
18:08 [Coke] phenny: .u sad
18:08 [Coke] :P
18:08 oha PerlJam, http://pastebin.com/b9huV5a2
18:10 oha PerlJam, if i execute it more and more, i often get an incomplete outer "sum"
18:10 oha PerlJam, i could be wrong, but the previous release of rakudo was ok.
18:10 timbunce joined #perl6
18:11 [Coke] oha: that code generates output with no error. Whats' the problem again?
18:12 [Coke] ah, it /occasionally/ fails?
18:13 oha i'm a bit laggy it seems. yep occasionally "dump" incompleted data
18:13 oha and it do twice, so it seems a problem on the Match and not the dump
18:14 oha This is Rakudo Perl 6, version 2010.06-214-g1ef278d
18:14 PerlJam I just reproduced it I think.
18:15 [Coke] $ ./parrot_install/bin/parrot --hash-seed=234234234234 perl6.pbc foo.p6
18:15 [Coke] that generates different output than :
18:15 [Coke] $ ./parrot_install/bin/parrot --hash-seed=23423423 perl6.pbc foo.p6
18:15 [Coke] I think this is an issue with LTM or alternation ending up in a hash.
18:16 tadzik my ($str) = $what ~~ s/^\e\[//; # what is wrong in here?
18:17 eternaleye joined #perl6
18:18 oha [Coke], no idea, btw the missing data is in not where alternations take place, but where [ .. ]* do
18:19 oha to me, the incomplete .caps array is always in the first level Match
18:19 tadzik ah, nevermind
18:20 PerlJam oha: you mean like this:  http://gist.github.com/487820   ?
18:20 moritz_ we have a spectest for incomplete caps in perl 6
18:20 moritz_ that rakudo occasionally fails
18:21 oha PerlJam, exactly the same
18:21 [Coke] oha: try this grammar: http://nopaste.snit.ch/22247
18:21 oha moritz_, so it seems a known bug here.
18:22 oha [Coke], that seems always working here
18:22 moritz_ oha: RT #75484
18:22 [Coke] er, you can probably remove the || in the pow rule.
18:23 oha [Coke], yep i've noticed it. but it should be skipped being the first empty autoremoved for what i know
18:28 oha moritz_, yep it seems exactly the same issue.
18:29 auggy joined #perl6
18:30 tadzik how are named regexes now used, outside grammars? <&=foo>, or something?
18:30 moritz_ tadzik: <foo=&foo>
18:30 PerlJam tadzik: <foo=&foo>
18:30 moritz_ or just <&foo> if you don't capture
18:30 tadzik awful. Thanks
18:33 nimiezko joined #perl6
18:33 * moritz_ not happy about it
18:37 _macdaddy joined #perl6
18:41 oha i've checked rakudo src, it seems that there are named capture missing in .hash()
18:42 tylercurtis std: rx :1th / foo /
18:42 p6eval std 31794: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 115m␤»
18:42 moritz_ I've verified that the Regex::Match object is built incorrectly; it's not Match.caps that's wrong
18:42 tylercurtis std: rx :9st / foo /
18:43 p6eval std 31794: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 115m␤»
18:43 moritz_ std: rx :12foo / bar /
18:43 p6eval std 31794: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unrecognized adverb :foo(12) at /tmp/GRA07KJohl line 1:␤------> [32mrx[33m⏏[31m :12foo / bar /[0m␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 115m␤»
18:45 takadonet left #perl6
18:47 moritz_ rakudo: say('a' ne 'b')
18:47 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«1␤»
18:47 moritz_ nqp: say('a' ne 'b')
18:47 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«1␤»
18:51 tylercurtis rakudo: class Foo { has $.n; }; our multi sub prefix:<-> (Foo $a) { Foo.new(:n(-$a.n)); }; my Foo $f .= new(:n(6)); (-$f).n.say;
18:51 p6eval rakudo b2af27: OUTPUT«-6␤»
18:52 tadzik A beer a day keeps the grammar problems away
18:53 tadzik magic
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19:31 pugssvn r31795 | moritz++ | [t/spec] s/todo/skip/ some tests that depend on specific libicu versions
19:34 dalek rakudo: 4195e9a | moritz++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
19:34 dalek rakudo: disallow parsing of adverb form in quotes that we can't handle yet
19:34 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4​195e9a26e1841c80b999303a81d4706f456e2bb
19:34 dalek rakudo: f196e88 | moritz++ | src/ (3 files):
19:34 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'subst_adverbs'
19:34 dalek rakudo: This implements s:g/// and s:!g///. Nothing more, nothing less.
19:34 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f​196e88d617bacff05e68b28487c52aefd5fad3c
19:35 tylercurtis http://futureboy.us/frinkdocs/#Superman Perl 6 needs docs like this.
19:37 colomon tylercurtis: nice!
19:38 timbunce joined #perl6
19:39 PerlJam tylercurtis++ Rare though it is, I'm actually LOL  :)
19:40 alester joined #perl6
19:44 * jnthn back
19:45 [Coke] espalda!
19:45 wamba joined #perl6
19:46 tylercurtis Now, we just need a unit-correct math library for Perl 6 and we can have funny example code like that for it. Which I would work on if I could understand why my operator overloads aren't working. :) and didn't need to be working on GSoC.
19:46 [Coke] we have rats, what more do you need!
19:47 sjohnson wow, p5 5.10.0 has state vars like in p6
19:47 sjohnson well what do ya know
19:48 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = 'hello, world'; $x ~~ s:g/<[aeiou]>/X/; say $x
19:48 p6eval rakudo f196e8: OUTPUT«hXllX, wXrld␤»
19:48 moritz_ jaffa4 will be happy :-)
19:48 jnthn hehe
19:48 jnthn moritz_++
19:48 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = 'hello, world'; $x ~~ s:g(1)/<[aeiou]>/X/; say $x
19:48 p6eval rakudo f196e8: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Arguments to adverbs on quotes are not yet implemented at line 22, near "/<[aeiou]>"␤»
19:49 jnthn moritz_: Does .subst not yet support them?
19:49 jnthn moritz_: Or were you hitting some odd code-gen problem?
19:49 moritz_ jnthn: the latter
19:49 moritz_ jnthn: it complained about identifier Capture not being declared
19:49 * jnthn fleetingly noticed soemthing about an errant Capture making it into the generated code
19:49 jnthn Aha.
19:49 moritz_ and the --target=past output didn't contain any Capture
19:49 jnthn Yeah, that's..."fun" to track down
19:50 jnthn I've hit them before, but rarely. Generally there's some subtle problem with the generated PAST that's hard to notice.
19:50 colomon [Coke]: I think tylercurtis wants units of measure, like in Frink.
19:50 jnthn Can happen if a PAST node makes it into the :value of a PAST::Val
19:50 jnthn iirc
19:50 jnthn But perhaps other times too
19:51 jnthn moritz_: If you have a patch or branch that exhibits the problem, I can probably track it down quite quickly.
19:51 moritz_ jnthn: that's what I had. And then I changed the code not generate the outer PAST::Val (and set  :name on the inner tree), and got the same error. "huh".
19:51 cognominal joined #perl6
19:51 jnthn Much quicker tha the segfault. :-/
19:51 moritz_ jnthn: git checkout e91ac9e836d25e3c19db2bff46fbd10e214aa938
19:56 lulinha joined #perl6
19:56 lulinha left #perl6
19:56 jnthn moritz_: If I change things having done this, will I be able to commit them to master somehow?
19:57 moritz_ jnthn: not easily. But you can send me the diff, and I'll fiddle it out
19:57 moritz_ you'll get some failures if you run spectest, because that commit is a few days behind master
19:59 lulinha joined #perl6
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20:01 lulinha joined #perl6
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20:05 justatheory joined #perl6
20:07 moritz_ are two Match objects from failed matches against the same string eqv?
20:07 moritz_ what if they matched against different strings? does it matter?
20:12 pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6
20:12 moritz_ hi. How's OSCON?
20:13 pmichaud almost over
20:13 pmichaud pjf++ just did his closing keynote
20:13 szabgab I just saw the talk of pjf
20:13 szabgab live streaming
20:16 jnthn o/ pmichaud
20:19 frettled szabgab: entertaining as always?
20:19 colomon pmichaud, etc: I thought that I should try mandelbrot again after the Rat speed ups yesterday.
20:20 pmichaud colomon: I'm always in favor of speed ups and bench marks.
20:20 colomon I don't have exact timings, but it looks like things are much slower, and more likely to crash.  :(
20:21 colomon I may have to borrow your git bisect and time script to track down what has changed
20:21 * moritz_ guesses lists
20:22 colomon something math-y is more likely, lots of iteration in there.
20:22 colomon (rather than list processing, I mean.)
20:23 [Coke] use MONKEY_BRAINS
20:23 jnthn moritz_: Think I grok what's up - hacking.
20:26 pmichaud oscon done
20:26 pmichaud afk for lunch, then back to hack for the evening
20:27 jnthn pmichaud: But don't worry - YAPC::EU soon for more conferencage! :-)
20:27 * moritz_ read that as "conference cage" :-)
20:27 jnthn moritz_: What does :g with a value do, ooc?
20:28 jnthn rakudo: my $x = 'xxxxx'; $x = $x.subst('x', 'y', :g); say $x;
20:28 p6eval rakudo f196e8: OUTPUT«yyyyy␤»
20:28 jnthn rakudo: my $x = 'xxxxx'; $x = $x.subst('x', 'y', :g(3)); say $x;
20:28 p6eval rakudo f196e8: OUTPUT«yyyyy␤»
20:28 bartie joined #perl6
20:28 moritz_ jnthn: evaluate for truthiness
20:28 jnthn oh.
20:29 jnthn Are there any more interesting ones? :-)
20:29 moritz_ sure
20:29 jnthn rakudo: my $x = 'xxxxx'; $x = $x.subst('x', 'y', :n(3)); say $x;
20:29 moritz_ :x(4)
20:29 * hugme hugs moritz_, good vi(m) user!
20:29 p6eval rakudo f196e8: OUTPUT«yxxxx␤»
20:29 jnthn rakudo: my $x = 'xxxxx'; $x = $x.subst('x', 'y', :x(3)); say $x;
20:29 p6eval rakudo f196e8: OUTPUT«yyyxx␤»
20:29 moritz_ :nth
20:29 moritz_ :c, :p
20:29 szabgab I need some help with grammars
20:29 szabgab http://paste.scsys.co.uk/47047
20:30 szabgab I am trying to understand how should I do error reporting
20:30 szabgab so I started to write a small grammar for a calculator
20:32 szabgab this version now does not report the correct error for the "2 + 3 x" case
20:32 szabgab are those die calls the way you would add error repoting at all?
20:33 * szabgab wonders if he should change his nick to screencast to get some attention :)
20:33 moritz_ rakudo: 'a' ~~ / x | <.panic("OH NOEZ")> /
20:33 p6eval rakudo f196e8: OUTPUT«Method 'panic' not found for invocant of class 'Cursor'␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/NREnwrOqSI␤  in 'Cool::match' at line 2382:CORE.setting␤  in 'Regex::ACCEPTS' at line 5483:CORE.setting␤  in 'infix:<~~>' at line 401:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line
20:33 p6eval ..22:/tmp/NREnwrOqSI␤»
20:33 moritz_ hum
20:33 grussell left #perl6
20:33 moritz_ szabgab: I don't think we have anything better at the moment
20:33 szabgab I saw panic but AFAIK it is specifically implemented for STD
20:34 tylercurtis rakudo: grammar Foo { rule TOP { <.panic("Foo")> } }; Foo.parse('flksnfalksdlfk')
20:34 p6eval rakudo f196e8: OUTPUT«Method 'panic' not found for invocant of class 'Foo'␤  in 'Foo::TOP' at line 22:/tmp/iEVvJ9FHXB␤  in 'Grammar::parse' at line 5531:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/iEVvJ9FHXB␤»
20:34 szabgab I think this is good for now, but it does not catch that specific case
20:35 szabgab so how can I call a die if there are extra characters after the second operand?
20:35 moritz_ szabgab: '' always matches
20:35 moritz_ that's the problem
20:35 * moritz_ tries something else
20:36 moritz_ [ \S  { die "Invalid value after second operand" } ]?
20:36 moritz_ this works
20:37 szabgab actually I now tried to swap the '' || { die }    and that way it also works
20:37 diakopter [Coke]: you got "lue" twice in Atlanta annc
20:37 szabgab but let me check yours
20:40 jnthn > my $x = 'xxxxx'; $x ~~ s:g(1)/x/y/; say $x;
20:40 jnthn yyyyy
20:40 jnthn > my $x = 'xxxxx'; $x ~~ s:g(0)/x/y/; say $x;
20:40 jnthn yxxxx
20:40 moritz_ \o/
20:40 jnthn moritz_: Want the diff?
20:40 szabgab moritz_: that one does not work well,  it does the right thing for the extra character case but also kills the good case
20:40 moritz_ jnthn: yes
20:40 szabgab I am not yet sure why
20:40 [Coke] diakopter: probably a bug in the script, but mea culpa.
20:40 moritz_ szabgab: did you include the ? after the ] ?
20:41 jnthn moritz_: http://gist.github.com/488005
20:41 moritz_ rakudo: (-> $x { say $x}).assuming(3).()
20:41 jnthn moritz_: It fixes the issue but makes things a bit simpler / more efficient too.
20:41 p6eval rakudo f196e8: OUTPUT«3␤»
20:41 szabgab moritz_: not yet :(
20:42 moritz_ szabgab: that's necessary :-)
20:42 colomon mandelbrot 501 keeps running for 2.5 hours and then crashing.  :(
20:42 szabgab right, with ? it works
20:42 jnthn colomon: Epic profiling needed. :S
20:42 colomon jnthn: but I wanna write my grant report!
20:43 * colomon feels certain this one is probably his fault too.
20:43 jnthn colomon: Well, I can hardly argue with that. ;-)
20:43 jnthn colomon: er, that was too you writing the grant report! :-)
20:43 jnthn *to
20:44 jnthn colomon: If you want me to look over it, I'm going to be here-ish for the next several hours.
20:44 szabgab moritz_: thanks
20:44 colomon jnthn++
20:44 djr joined #perl6
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20:49 moritz_ jnthn: I have your patch fixed up locally, but I don't know if I'll get around to testing and pushing it today... certainly tomorrow
20:50 [Coke] tools/contrib* doesn't handle the date if the release already happened this month.
20:50 [Coke] IWBNI that worked.
20:50 jferrero joined #perl6
20:50 jnthn moritz_: No hurry. :-)
20:52 * jnthn afk for a break
21:01 BooK joined #perl6
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21:01 pyrimidine left #perl6
21:05 [Coke] .u clear
21:05 phenny U+239A CLEAR SCREEN SYMBOL (⎚)
21:05 [Coke] .u ornate
21:05 phenny U+FD3E ORNATE LEFT PARENTHESIS (﴾)
21:12 kst joined #perl6
21:15 alester joined #perl6
21:19 dolmen joined #perl6
21:22 tadzik g'night
21:22 [Coke] ~~
21:23 gbarr joined #perl6
21:24 gbarr left #perl6
21:25 dolmen Kodi?
21:27 dotan joined #perl6
21:30 dolmen diakopter, are you Kodi on svn.pugscode.org?
21:31 dotan does perl6 (July 2010 Rakudo tarball) understand __DATA__ sections?
21:32 PerlJam dotan: doubtful
21:32 PerlJam they'd be spelt more like  =begin DATA  though, not __DATA__ as in Perl 5
21:33 [particle] i think diakopter is diakopter
21:34 dotan ok, thanks.
21:35 PerlJam dotan: you can say =begin DATA ... =end DATA, but I don't think the linkage is there to provide the contents in $=DATA
21:37 sundar joined #perl6
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21:38 sjohnson hows #perl6 today
21:42 dolmen [particle], do you known who is Kodi?
21:42 [particle] kodi is kodi arfer
21:43 [particle] http://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=70105
21:46 sjohnson rakudo:  my @a = <one two three>; local $" = ', '; say "@a"
21:46 p6eval rakudo f196e8: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at line 22, near "$\" = ', ';"␤»
21:46 sjohnson thats what i deserve for not reading the apocolpyses yet.
21:46 * sjohnson slaps own wrist
21:47 PerlJam that error is certainly LTA though
21:47 PerlJam std: my @a = <one two three>; local $" = ', '; say "@a"
21:47 p6eval std 31795: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unsupported use of $" variable; in Perl 6 please use .join() method at /tmp/Lt2CeKj5VT line 1:␤------> [32mmy @a = <one two three>; local $"[33m⏏[31m = ', '; say "@a"[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 117m␤»
21:47 sjohnson what does LTA mean?
21:48 PerlJam Less Than Awesome
21:48 sjohnson i broketed it.
21:48 PerlJam I bet STD could be made to declare about "local" if it looks like a declarator too
21:50 PerlJam std: local $a = 5;
21:50 p6eval std 31795: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable $a is not predeclared at /tmp/Z6nN9slZnr line 1:␤------> [32mlocal $a[33m⏏[31m = 5;[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤        'local' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 117m␤»
21:51 sjohnson <--- has no idea
21:51 whiteknight joined #perl6
21:55 dolmen **
21:55 dotan So say I want to read the file my program is in, discard all lines until something with __DATA__ and keep all the following lines.  What is a better way than using a while loop and a flag?
21:56 avar I love the detailed error messages in STD, are those in rakudo too?
21:56 dolmen avar, no
21:56 avar dolmen: Isn't it the $?DATA filehandle or something?
22:00 dolmen avar: $=DATA   See http://perlcabal.org/syn/S28.html
22:01 PerlJam dotan: What are your criteria for "better"?   :)
22:02 PerlJam dotan: you could do something like this:  repeat { $line = $fh.get } until $line eq '__DATA__';  my @data = $fh.lines;
22:03 dotan Perljam: thanks! I put a comment before __DATA__ because perl6 assumed it was a function call. So I need $line =~ /__DATA__/ - does that still work?
22:04 PerlJam $line ~~ /^__DATA__$/;
22:05 PerlJam or even $line ~~ /^^ __DATA__ $$/;
22:05 PerlJam but you need to use ~~ rather than =~   :)
22:07 PerlJam maybe /^^ '#__DATA__' $$/ for you
22:08 dotan That's the whole line, isn't it? might as well just use string equality.
22:09 PerlJam yep
22:09 PerlJam whatever works for you
22:10 dotan That link about twigils looks promising. $=__DATA__ perhaps.
22:10 gbacon joined #perl6
22:10 lue ohai o/
22:11 PerlJam It's $=DATA and @=DATA whenever it gets implemented
22:11 PerlJam there is no more __DATA__
22:15 oha i must have done something wrong, but i keep getting PackFile_unpack: This Parrot cannot read bytecode files with version 8.0. after i've recompiled parrot and rakudo. any hint?
22:16 PerlJam oha: I dunno, but I had the same problem.  I nuked my previous parrot installations and reinstalled and it went away.
22:18 oha i'll try
22:26 amkrankruleuen joined #perl6
22:27 dotan Is there @ARGV? command line arguments in some other shape?
22:29 PerlJam @*ARGS
22:29 dotan thanks
22:40 sjohnson rakudo: say "hi there";
22:40 p6eval rakudo f196e8: OUTPUT«hi there␤»
22:45 oha PerlJam, i think i've found the bug
22:46 oha i would like to have you to check it first
22:47 stepnem joined #perl6
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23:40 snarkyboojum joined #perl6
23:44 supernovus joined #perl6
23:44 supernovus g'day #perl6
23:44 jnthn o/ supernovus
23:46 [particle] jnthn: who's running rakudo.org? i wanna get google analytics working there so we can get metrics on rakudo star traffic
23:47 [particle] alester? pmichaud?
23:47 supernovus So what are the chances of getting DateTime::Utils included with R* ?
23:48 [particle] does pls know about it, and does it pass its tests?
23:48 [particle] if so, then there's not a bad chance
23:48 supernovus [particle]: I'm not sure if pls/proto has it listed yet, who would I ask about adding it? And yeah, the tests all pass.
23:50 colomon supernovus: masak
23:50 jnthn [particle]: I believe alester
23:50 colomon though, hmm... a lot of us may actually have permission to do it.
23:51 jnthn [particle]: And yes, good idea.
23:52 [particle] supernovus: fork masak's proto repo at github, modify the pls/poc-projects.list, and send a pull request
23:52 [particle] you should modify proto's projects.list, too
23:52 colomon what [particle] said, that's the nice way of doing it.  :)
23:52 supernovus [particle]: Cool, I'll do so.
23:52 [particle] proto needs some docs to that effect in the readme
23:53 [particle] supernovus: care to write them in a separate commit?
23:55 supernovus [particle]: Sure.
23:56 [particle] supernovus++
23:57 Psyche^ joined #perl6
23:59 cxreg [particle]: regarding passing tests, is it troublesome if you need to jump through hoops to make them pass?
23:59 cxreg like, say, MiniDBI, requires you to set up database with a given port, user, password, etc

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