Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-07-29

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 snarkyboojum pmichaud: indeed :P
00:00 pmichaud jnthn: I'll have another tarball tonight
00:00 pmichaud I'll upload a tarball now (somewhat untested)
00:00 jnthn pmichaud: Yeah - I unfortunately got some $dayjob meeting stuff some of tomorrow.
00:01 pmichaud no problem.  we seem to be converging rapidly at this point.
00:01 jnthn Aye, I'd just hate for the released one not to work on Win32.
00:01 jnthn :-)
00:02 timbunce I've uploaded a (slightly modified) version of my DBDI lighting talk http://www.slideshare.net/Tim.Bunce/perl-6-dbdi-lighting-talk-201007
00:02 pmichaud any final remarks about the announcement, readme, etc?
00:02 pmichaud or anything else in the tarball/distro?
00:03 pmichaud http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta4.tar.gz
00:03 snarkyboojum actually NZ is UTC + 12 hours, so it'll be 30th in NZ at midday UTC :P
00:04 pmichaud snarkyboojum: yes, but just barely :)
00:04 snarkyboojum pmichaud: poor kiwis :P
00:04 pmichaud maybe I'll release at 11h45 then
00:04 pmichaud is there anywhere that is UTC-12 hours?
00:04 timbunce pmichaud: remove the two "...others?" ?
00:04 pmichaud timbunce: oops, yes.  I'll be sure to do that.  :)
00:04 timbunce pmichaud: actually just the first
00:04 pmichaud (doing that now, in fact)
00:05 timbunce pmichaud: the second could be "and much more..." :)
00:05 pmichaud I can do that, yes.
00:05 pmichaud * threads and concurrency
00:05 pmichaud * Unicode strings at levels other than codepoints
00:05 pmichaud * pre and post constraints, and other phasers
00:05 pmichaud * ...and much more...
00:06 pmichaud changed final ellipsis to a period.
00:06 pronik joined #perl6
00:07 pmichaud (still planning for 12h00 release, despite nz timezone :-)
00:07 pmichaud note "despite" and not "to spite"  :-P
00:08 jnthn ;-)
00:08 snarkyboojum as an aussie, I don't mind :)
00:08 isBEKaml_ pmichaud: http://github.com/svatsan/rStar-SlackBuilds. Slackware build scripts in place for rakudo and parrot.
00:09 isBEKaml_ I have currently kept them separate into two dependency builds. will integrate them into one in sometime for R*
00:11 isBEKaml_ snarkyboojum: aussies are spiteful? ;)
00:11 snarkyboojum isBEKaml_: err.. competitive w.r.t kiwis :)
00:12 pronik left #perl6
00:12 snarkyboojum or is it the other way around..
00:12 pmichaud isBEKaml_: I think they should remain separate, fwiw.
00:12 jnthn Aussies and Kiwis?
00:13 isBEKaml_ snarkyboojum: that's better. I have seen them to be fiercely competitive in sports. :)
00:13 pmichaud the only reason we bundle parrot with the R* distribution is to make it simpler for people who download the tarball to not have to worry about which parrot to grab.
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00:13 pmichaud but for binary builds/packages (like slackware, rpm, etc.), I think it makes far more sense to have separate parrot and rakudo packages
00:13 isBEKaml_ pmichaud: that would mean users would have to download sources separately and keep them in place for the script to use.
00:15 isBEKaml_ pmichaud: for R*, I can make it build two packages instead of one after integration. The integration is only for the build script not for packages. :)
00:17 pmichaud isBEKaml_: that works for me.
00:17 pmichaud isBEKaml_: I tend to defer to package builders as to how things should actually be packaged.  :-)
00:17 jnthn pmichaud: I have an MSI that installs in C:\Rakudo, doesn't let the user change it so they won't go and install in a palce that won't work (since it's not relocatable) and installs a shortcut in the programs menu to the REPL.
00:17 jnthn Oh, and works. :-)
00:17 pmichaud jnthn: \o/
00:18 snarkyboojum jnthn: re 'Aussies and Kiwis' - there's a compulsion to shorten/mangle names down here - innate laziness :)
00:18 pmichaud does it require perl (5) to be on the system to work?
00:18 jnthn pmichaud: Where are modules installed to btw?
00:18 jnthn pmichaud: No
00:18 jnthn pmichaud: Though it doesn't include Blizkost yet either.
00:19 ingy Has london.pm received their * yet?
00:19 pmichaud jnthn: $(prefix)/lib/2.6.0/library/languages/perl6/lib/whatever  # I think
00:19 pmichaud anyway, they go wherever parrot and rakudo expect to find them
00:19 jnthn Oh, wait, beta 3 got that worng and I was running an unpatched version...
00:20 jnthn Hopefully beta 4 (doing it now) will get that right. :-)
00:20 pmichaud I don't think I changed anything in that regard between b3 and b4.  did you?
00:20 ingy go go rakudo!
00:20 jnthn pmichaud: Yes, I put in a patch.
00:20 pmichaud okay.
00:20 jnthn b3 was (your) last night, right?
00:20 pmichaud yes.
00:20 pmichaud b4 is the one I did <60m ago
00:20 jnthn OK, so yes, I fixed something when I woke up this morning.
00:21 jnthn So it'll be in b4 but not b3
00:21 pmichaud anyway, yes, hopefully fixed in b4.
00:21 snarkyboojum oh my - "Suggested magic..." email spam
00:21 jnthn Ah. book ain't in b4, but the looks of it?
00:21 pmichaud jnthn: not yet -- working on that part now.
00:21 jnthn snarkyboojum: omg I know...that thread is epic.
00:21 pmichaud also still missing perl6.vim
00:22 jnthn pmichaud: Probably don't need that one on Windows. :-)
00:22 pmichaud someone might be running gvim!  :-)
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00:24 jnthn pmichaud: Any thoughts on what should go in the "Rakudo Perl 6" start menu folder? So far I just have "Rakudo REPL" which starts Rakudo (so you get interactive mode).
00:24 pmichaud jnthn: link to book?  link to README?
00:25 jnthn Link to book is good idea, yeah.
00:25 pmichaud afk for a bit, walk
00:25 pmichaud it will be docs/book.pdf
00:27 isBEKaml_ how do you install bundled modules? I'd rather leave it to the user if he wants to install instead of pushing into the build script.
00:27 isBEKaml_ make modules?
00:28 isBEKaml_ or make modules-install ? that would install ufo, am I right?
00:29 * [particle] runs gvim
00:29 * isBEKaml_ just a vim user. =)
00:29 isBEKaml_ :wq
00:29 * hugme hugs isBEKaml_, good vi(m) user!
00:29 isBEKaml_ \o/
00:29 * isBEKaml_ hugs back hugme
00:31 isBEKaml_ btw, install target in the R* b3 dist does both rakudo-install and modules-install ?
00:31 jnthn isBEKaml_: as far as I can tell
00:31 snarkyboojum isBEKaml_: according to the Makefile that seems to be right :)
00:32 isBEKaml_ ok. I'm no make expert. :)
00:39 isBEKaml_ alright, time here's six in the am. I won't be available for the rest of the day. When is the actual release going through?
00:39 snarkyboojum isBEKaml_: by midday UTC, I think pmichaud was going to get the first tarball done by 11am UTC (I think)
00:39 isBEKaml_ I mean, the time.
00:40 jnthn pmichaud: b4 looks good
00:40 isBEKaml_ snarkyboojum: cool, we have twelve hours. :)
00:40 isBEKaml_ well, nearly.
00:41 snarkyboojum isBEKaml_: best to check with pmichaud, but yeah, the "release" release will be about 11 hours 20 minutes away as I understand it :)
00:42 Daenyth joined #perl6
00:42 Daenyth Hiya all
00:44 Daenyth Is there any yacc -> p6 grammar parser?
00:45 jnthn pmichaud: Added link to book from start menu folder, also associated .p6 with Rakudo.
00:46 jnthn pmichaud: Plus modules now install and work.
00:46 jnthn Daenyth: I haven't seen one.
00:46 Daenyth Thanks
00:48 jnthn http://www.jnthn.net/perl6/rakudo/Rakudo-Star-2010-07.msi
00:48 isBEKaml_ snarkyboojum: will do. thanks.
00:48 patspam joined #perl6
00:48 jnthn ^^ If anyone wants to try out the Windows installer, there's a beta.
00:48 isBEKaml_ jnthn: \o/
00:49 jnthn I'm meant to be catching a train for $dayjob meeting in like 6 hours, so perhaps I should sleep.
00:49 isBEKaml_ jnthn: I'm supposed to be running to $dayjob in an half hour or so. =)
00:50 jnthn isBEKaml_: Yes, but you myabe slept recently. ;-)
00:50 isBEKaml_ jnthn: :)
00:51 snarkyboojum jnthn++ # sleep well!
00:52 isBEKaml_ jnthn: good sleep! :)
00:52 jnthn Thanks, catch you all tomorrow - release day! :D
00:52 lichtkind congrats to you
00:52 phenny lichtkind: 27 Jul 22:57Z <sorear> tell lichtkind blizkost has been tested on 5.10.1 and 5.12.0.  It is known to not work on 5.8.9.
00:52 lichtkind thanks phenny
00:53 sorear according to azawawi, it does NOT work on Windows 5.12.1 Strawberry
00:53 sorear according to jnthn, it does work on Windows 5.10.0 unknown distribution
00:53 lichtkind sorear: thanks
00:53 Sarten-X joined #perl6
00:54 lichtkind good night
00:54 lichtkind happy release day
00:57 isBEKaml_ http://github.com/svatsan/rStar-SlackBuilds # added README
00:57 Daenyth left #perl6
00:57 lue wello o/
00:57 isBEKaml_ hellue! o/
00:58 * isBEKaml_ off to work. Release day! go, rakudo, go! :)
00:59 isBEKaml_ have a good time, folks! o/
00:59 lue goodbye o/
00:59 lue pmichaud: [Monty Python old lady voice] so you're going to release it at 5 in the morning (PDT) ?
01:02 pmichaud lue: yes.  it's 7am where I'll be.
01:03 ingy pmichaud: slacker
01:03 pmichaud ingy: that's me!
01:03 ingy :-*
01:04 lue .oO(I think I can time the release of a post in wordpress, but can I time the changing of the parts of the layout?)
01:04 alexm pmichaud: just tried beta4 and... > my $a = "ä"; $a.say
01:04 alexm ä
01:04 pmichaud alexm: looking.
01:04 lue rakudo: my $a = "ä"; $a.say
01:04 p6eval rakudo fe29cd: OUTPUT«ä␤»
01:05 pmichaud alexm: does it work when entered from a file?
01:05 * alexm trying
01:05 ingy can you catch arguments to 'use Foo "arg1"' in an import sub like perl5?
01:05 pmichaud parrot seems to have trouble with utf8 when coming from the interactive shell
01:05 pmichaud ingy: nyi, I think.
01:05 alexm pmichaud: it works from a file, yes
01:05 pmichaud ingy: and don't know that we're entirely certain what the api will look like there.
01:06 pmichaud alexm: yeah, I suspect a terminal issue.
01:06 alexm pmichaud: on my side or rakudo's? it worked fine in rakudo master a few days ago
01:06 pmichaud alexm: could be rakudos, but I'm not sure why/where.
01:06 * alexm now recompiling rakudo master
01:06 pmichaud I'll try it with the kiev release
01:06 pmichaud I'm getting the same thing here.
01:07 pmichaud oh, I think I see.
01:07 pmichaud looks like an issue with the setup for $*IN, $*OUT, and $*ERR -- they no longer have their utf8 flag
01:07 pmichaud I'll see if I can figure out why it was lost and patch it back in.
01:08 * ingy heads out for some exercise.
01:08 alexm pmichaud: master fe29cde works just fine
01:09 alexm it probably got fixed since beta4?
01:10 pmichaud there's not much difference between fe29cde and beta4
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01:10 pmichaud beta4 was built using fe29cde
01:11 alexm pmichaud: i'm cleaning up my rakudo fork and recompiling again, just in case
01:13 masonkramer I'm trying to follow the epic .. operator thread.  What does the ^ in "1..^ 10" mean?
01:13 pmichaud masonkramer: it means "up to"
01:13 masonkramer and what does "1.. ^10" mean?
01:13 pmichaud so 1..^10  means "1 up to (but not including) 10"
01:14 pmichaud ^10 means "zero up to 10"
01:14 avar so, uh, when's * coming out ?:)
01:14 pmichaud 1.. ^10   is arguably meaningless
01:14 pmichaud but it would end up being the same as   (1.. (0..^10))
01:14 masonkramer ahh
01:14 masonkramer so ^10 means "0..10" ?
01:15 pmichaud means "0..^10"
01:15 pmichaud rakudo:  say ^10
01:15 p6eval rakudo fe29cd: OUTPUT«0123456789␤»
01:15 masonkramer right right
01:15 pmichaud rakudo:  say (^10).perl;
01:15 p6eval rakudo fe29cd: OUTPUT«0..^10␤»
01:15 masonkramer thanks!
01:15 pmichaud PerlJam:  I can't get the book to build for me... any hints?
01:16 PerlJam What's it doing/not doing?
01:16 PerlJam Did you read the README?
01:16 pmichaud make[1]: Entering directory `/home/pmichaud/book/build'
01:16 pmichaud ../lib/Makefile:2261: UsingPerl6.letter.d: No such file or directory
01:16 pmichaud = UsingPerl6.letter.tex --> UsingPerl6.letter.d UsingPerl6.letter.pdf.1st.make (0-1) =
01:16 pmichaud make[1]: *** [UsingPerl6.letter.d] Error 1
01:16 pmichaud make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/pmichaud/book/build'
01:16 pmichaud make: *** [pdf] Error 2
01:16 pmichaud pmichaud@plum:~/book$
01:16 pmichaud yes, I read the README :-)
01:18 pmichaud it worked for me at the beginning of last week, so something changed since then.
01:18 pmichaud (although I did have to reinstall my notebook since then.. still, I reloaded the various libraries and stuff)
01:21 PerlJam Well, your problem is new to me.  It works fine on ubuntu 10.04  (after going through the stuff in the README)
01:21 pmichaud I'm on kubuntu 10.04 :)
01:21 pmichaud still, shouldn't be that big a difference.
01:21 pmichaud I'll try rebooting and stuff.
01:21 alexm pmichaud: confirmed, rakudo master fails also with utf-8 from terminal, libreadline5-dev seems suspicious to me
01:21 pmichaud alexm: I'm guessing the problem is that utf-8 is no longer set
01:23 pmichaud looks like some dweeb named 'pmichaud' patched the file that sets up $*IN, $*OUT, $*ERR on July 5 such that it no longer sets utf8.
01:23 pmichaud I'll fix up what he did.  :-)
01:23 PerlJam pmichaud: Were you going to include the POD too or just the PDF of the book/.
01:23 PerlJam ?
01:24 pmichaud PerlJam: I was planning just the pdf
01:24 alexm pmichaud: it's a nice guy, be gentle :)
01:24 pmichaud alexm: he's always giving me trouble. :)
01:24 pmichaud alexm: anyway, I should be able to fix it prior to R*
01:24 alexm s/it's/he's/ ... sorry ;)
01:25 pmichaud PerlJam: if you can generate a pdf for me and check it into the star repo (skel/docs/book.pdf),  that'd help a ton.
01:25 PerlJam will do
01:25 pmichaud you have commitbit?
01:26 PerlJam apparently (I committed a small change earlier today :)
01:28 pmichaud aye, you have commitbit.
01:28 pmichaud thanks
01:28 pmichaud I have to run to store -- bbiab
01:28 PerlJam how about if I name it UsingPerl6-draft.pdf ?
01:28 PerlJam or somesuch
01:28 masonkramer gahh... what how is *+* equivalent to &[+]?
01:28 sorear it's not, quite
01:28 sorear * + * is equivalent to { $^a + $^b }
01:28 sorear it's an even lighter form of placeholder
01:28 masonkramer oh...
01:28 ash__ rakudo: my $a = * + *; say $a(1, 2);
01:28 masonkramer what synopsis is that?
01:28 p6eval rakudo fe29cd: OUTPUT«3␤»
01:28 sorear S02
01:31 masonkramer Oy, I already read that one
01:31 PerlJam pmichaud: I'll name it as I said above and let you either rename it or change the announcement.
01:31 masonkramer I'm finding this hard to learn...I really need to start solving problems with it
01:31 masonkramer thanks though
01:31 ash__ masonkramer: if you have any suggestions for tutorials, beyond whats in the perl6 book thats started, let me know
01:31 PerlJam masonkramer: what's hard?  It's easy as pie  :)
01:31 ash__ have you seen the perl6 book that's already been started?
01:31 masonkramer ash__: I have taken a look, it looks _great_
01:31 PerlJam masonkramer: note that I sometimes trip myself up on simple things too
01:31 masonkramer very excited about it
01:32 alexm pmichaud: maybe you'd like to know that compiling without support for readline5 solves the "ä".say problem
01:32 alexm don't know if that's related to the change tou mentioned before
01:32 alexm s/tou/you/
01:32 masonkramer when references are made to builtin methods (.succ, .pred, .perl), where can I go to look up those methods?
01:34 PerlJam masonkramer: in an appropriate synopsis http://perlcabal.org/syn/
01:34 PerlJam (the trick is figuring out which one still)
01:35 PerlJam masonkramer: though that's a good point.  One of the things I've occasionally found annoying about looking up method names in other OO languages is that you have to know what class the belong to first.  What's needed is an alphabetic listing of all methods that reference the appropriate classes.
01:39 masonkramer yes
01:40 masonkramer or one of those "hyperlink" thingies
01:40 PerlJam yes.
01:41 PerlJam links are great, but they have to flow both ways as you never know how someone is going to come at a problem.
01:41 PerlJam and there should be multiple "indexes" for that same reason.
01:41 PerlJam IMHO
01:43 masonkramer but really, I am not complaining
01:47 PerlJam this whole thread on p6l about magic .. is *crazy*
01:50 sorear It's distracting the crazies so they don't bother us here.
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02:08 colomon sorear: exactly.  :)
02:08 masonkramer @primes = grep *.prime, 2..*;
02:08 masonkramer doesn't this blow up?
02:10 colomon masonkramer: might not, if grep is smart enough to detect it's being handed an infinite list.
02:11 masonkramer an infinite list?  wouldn't that be a Range?
02:12 masonkramer I guess Ranges degrade into lists when passed as a listy thing?
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02:15 colomon right.  if you use a range like a list, it becomes a list.
02:16 masonkramer or in p6 speak, Iterator
02:16 masonkramer or maybe a RangeIter
02:17 masonkramer this language is huge :)
02:17 pmichaud PerlJam: UsingPerl6-draft.pdf is fine
02:17 colomon an iterator is how a list is implemented.
02:17 pmichaud PerlJam++
02:19 snarkyboojum I get 'maximum recursion depth exceeded' if I do something like my Int @a = 1..10, or any time I put a type in front of an array like that
02:19 snarkyboojum I guess that's a known issue
02:19 sorear right, types in front of arrays don't work.
02:19 snarkyboojum sorear: ok. cheers.
02:20 pmichaud (added to announcement)
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02:45 pmichaud .oO('Twas the night before Christmas...)
02:47 PerlJam oddly, Camryn was just singing "Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer" out of the blue
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03:20 flw perl6: say 3;
03:20 p6eval pugs, rakudo fe29cd: OUTPUT«3␤»
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03:38 dalek rakudo: c196801 | pmichaud++ | VERSION:
03:38 dalek rakudo: Bump VERSION.
03:38 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c19680103004f30aa54385305ad9a73b1c737d67
03:50 dalek rakudo: 9fd5eaa | pmichaud++ | build/gen_version.pl:
03:50 dalek rakudo: Make sure --version always prefers the date form of tag (starting with '2').
03:50 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9fd5eaa6c8aa5f0cf22247e0def0929715e322ed
03:51 lue ohai once again o/
03:55 lue aw,  git pull  is freezing :(
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04:45 pmichaud general comment:  I'd really like to see masak++'s 10 year history of Perl 6 referenced from perl6.org somewhere :)
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04:53 PerlJam pmichaud: where would it go?
04:54 pmichaud PerlJam: I don't know; if I knew that much I'd just add it.  :)
04:55 PerlJam If perl6.org had a "news" section, it'd fit right there.
04:55 pmichaud I think it deserves to be around longer than just "news"
04:56 pmichaud http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta6.tar.gz  # likely the last test tarball before building the release itself
04:56 pmichaud oops
04:56 pmichaud *beta5*
04:56 pmichaud http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta5.tar.gz  # likely the last test tarball before building the release itself
04:57 pmichaud afk for a while
05:07 snarkyboojum the CREDITS file in docs still looks a bit light on
05:08 lue I'm not quite sure on when one would want to use package, module, or class (for, eh, modules).
05:08 sorear use a class if you want to be able to call .new on it
05:09 sorear use a module if you want to be able to export functions from it
05:09 sorear use a package if you want to be able to define *anything* in it
05:09 sorear every class is a module
05:09 sorear every module is a package
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05:09 sorear use the least that will work
05:10 sorear std: { $^a + $a }
05:10 p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 117m␤»
05:10 lue thank you, sorear
05:10 sorear rakudo: { $^a + $a }
05:10 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1␤  in main program body at line 2:/tmp/SzJcipIJP8␤»
05:11 sorear huh.  I thought you had to use $^a consistantly.
05:13 PerlJam pmichaud: blizkost doesn't seem to work.
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05:14 cxreg it's almost shocking how positive MAGnet #perl is about r*
05:16 PerlJam pmichaud: http://gist.github.com/497304
05:16 Dieken hi,  a little typo in blizkost/build/Makefile.in:   s/MANDIR/MAN_DIR/g
05:16 sorear PerlJam: Where does it say pmichaud is the maintainer of blizkost?
05:17 sorear anyways, they probably just forgot a mkdir dynext
05:17 PerlJam sorear: nowhere.  He's not.  But he is putting together the R* dist with blizkost and he may have a clue about how to fix it.
05:18 PerlJam (I tried to install R*-beta5 as per the README)
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05:24 uasi rakudo: my $a = 0; ({$^a + $a})(1);
05:24 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea:  ( no output )
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05:25 uasi my $a = 0; ({$^a + $a})(1).say;
05:25 uasi rakudo: my $a = 0; ({$^a + $a})(1).say;
05:25 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«2␤»
05:26 uasi oh
05:26 PerlJam uasi: the first "my $a" has nothing to do with the rest of the code  :)
05:26 pmichaud PerlJam: I'll take a look.
05:27 pmichaud (blizkost)
05:27 pmichaud jnthn++ made some changes a bit earlier today -- that might've affected things.
05:27 PerlJam I must be getting tired since there was no reason to say "the first"  :)
05:29 PerlJam pmichaud: Do you think ./perl6 --version should mention that it's part of R* in there somewhere?  Or just leave it to the version and the partial SHA1 to determine that?
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05:30 * cxreg wonders how linux distros will version "star" when packaged
05:30 pmichaud PerlJam: I think the compiler should continue to report compiler versions.
05:30 cxreg debian has "0.1~2010.01-1" right now, it appears
05:31 pmichaud We might have a Rakudo::Star module, though.
05:31 uasi PerlJam: so... {$^a + $a} is equivalent to {$^a + $^a} ?
05:31 PerlJam cxreg: what's with the leading 0.1 ? do they have some constraints on version number formats?
05:31 cxreg PerlJam: probably
05:32 pmichaud uasi: yes.  $^var also declares $var
05:32 cxreg PerlJam: i think it's an attempt at future-proofed versioning that will numerically sort correctly against "real" versions
05:35 cxreg PerlJam: actually, i think since the tag is "Star+0" it /will/ say so
05:36 pmichaud I set the tags to always report dates, so it'll say 2010.07-47-....
05:36 cxreg oh wait, nevermind.  that depends on a .git directory existing
05:37 cxreg pmichaud: i meant the conditional thing that uses "git describe"
05:37 pmichaud cxreg: right.
05:37 cxreg oh, i didnt see the --match bit
05:37 pmichaud I switch it so that it does  'git describe --match '2*'
05:37 pmichaud that's new as of tonight
05:37 cxreg ahhh
05:37 cxreg i didnt even know git could do that
05:37 cxreg slick.
05:37 pmichaud because I want --version to report that it's based on the 2010.07 release
05:39 pmichaud future star releases will all report simply "2010.08", "2010.09", etc.
05:39 uasi pmichaud: thanks
05:40 * PerlJam sleep &
05:40 pmichaud PerlJam: blizkost appears to build okay here.
05:41 high joined #perl6
05:42 sorear pmichaud: How are you making the tarballs?  Are they preserving empty directories?
05:42 * PerlJam unsleep
05:42 pmichaud sorear: probably not preserving empty directories, no.
05:42 cxreg pmichaud: the rule says "-$(MKPATH) $(MANDIR)/man1
05:42 cxreg the leading - means to ignore exit status
05:42 cxreg so when it fails to create "/man1", it just continues
05:44 cxreg mkdir /man1: Permission denied at /usr/share/perl/5.10/ExtUtils/Command.pm line 288
05:44 cxreg make: [install] Error 13 (ignored)
05:44 pmichaud PerlJam: okay, I got the same error you did.
05:44 pmichaud looking.
05:45 PerlJam There's no dynext dir in the tarball
05:45 pmichaud right
05:45 pmichaud empty dirs are likely to cause issues
05:45 PerlJam Is that because of git?
05:45 pmichaud more likely because the MANIFEST only lsits files, not directories.
05:46 PerlJam ah
05:46 pmichaud ...and because the tarball excludes .git* files
05:47 PerlJam touch .keep_me  #  :)
05:47 meppl joined #perl6
05:47 pmichaud well, it actually excludes .-files altogether :)
05:48 PerlJam bummer
05:48 pmichaud I can get it to keep the blizkost .gitignore, though.
05:48 pmichaud I had to do something similar for Parrot, which actually expects .gitignore files in its MANIFEST :-)
05:48 PerlJam that's weird
05:48 pmichaud yeah, Coke already said to report it as a bug :-)
05:49 PerlJam Perhaps that's someone's way of nudging parrot towards using git
05:49 PerlJam :-)
05:49 Su-Shee joined #perl6
05:51 lue Just thought I'd share this: http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=353
05:54 a8b8126d joined #perl6
05:54 sorear std: say $
05:54 p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at /tmp/zAUQ64r1_V line 1:␤------> [32msay [33m⏏[31m$[0m␤Confused at /tmp/zAUQ64r1_V line 1:␤------> [32msay $[33m⏏[31m[0m␤    expecting twigil␤Other potential difficulties:␤  Unsupported use of
05:54 p6eval ..bare…
05:55 sorear std: say $
05:55 p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at /tmp/ru2zYMtkci line 1:␤------> [32msay [33m⏏[31m$[0m␤Confused at /tmp/ru2zYMtkci line 1:␤------> [32msay $[33m⏏[31m[0m␤    expecting twigil␤Other potential difficulties:␤  Unsupported use of
05:55 p6eval ..bare…
05:55 pmichaud PerlJam: testing fix now.
05:56 lue Wow, that's the first time STD has printed bold text (for me)
05:57 azawawi joined #perl6
05:58 sorear yeah
05:59 sorear I was hoping to get a nice error message
05:59 lue It's just the color that won't work in my IRC client :/
05:59 sorear $ is the Perl 5 syntax for $*OSNAME
06:00 sorear etc
06:03 pmichaud hugme:  add pmichaud to blizkost
06:03 hugme pmichaud: sorry, I don't know anything about project 'blizkost'
06:05 sorear pmichaud: I can apply patches
06:05 [particle] hugme: list projects
06:05 hugme [particle]: I know about Math-Model, Math-RungeKutta, MiniDBI, book, gge, hugme, ilbot, java2perl6, json, modules.perl6.org, november, nqp-rx, nqpbook, perl6-examples, perl6-wtop, process-cmd-args, proto, pugs, star, svg-matchdumper, svg-plot, tardis, temporal-flux-perl6syn, try.rakudo.org, tufte, ufo, web, yapsi
06:05 pmichaud sorear: I was just going to s/MANDIR/MAN_DIR/
06:05 sorear ?? ~~ s///?
06:06 mathw Morning
06:06 sorear hello mathw
06:07 pmichaud sorear: in build/Makefile.in
06:07 sorear :g?
06:07 pmichaud sure
06:08 pmichaud MANDIR is never defined in the makefile, but MAN_DIR is.
06:08 azawawi I did some blizkost debugging last night on strawberry perl (win32). On perl 5.10, It works but does not actually print anything since it silently exits after calling Perl's NewX in p5_interpreter.pmc. On perl 5.12, it fails with a nasty not-found in DLL message... Both install ok.
06:08 pmichaud jnthn++ tested blizkost after making some changes this morning.
06:09 [particle] hopefully pmichaud's this morning was after azawawi's last night
06:09 pmichaud I'm sure it was.
06:09 pmichaud we didn't have a tarball with the updates until much later in the day
06:10 sorear pmichaud: jnthn didn't push.
06:10 sorear hope he doesn't mind me pushing my own change
06:10 pmichaud new tarball candidate at http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta6.tar.gz  (yes, really beta6 this time)
06:10 azawawi [particle]: i'll test it now again on 5.12 :)
06:10 pmichaud jnthn's changes were to star, not to blizkost
06:10 pmichaud (iiuc)
06:14 lue afk
06:22 am0c joined #perl6
06:23 itz d~
06:24 itz are we there yet? :)
06:26 jnthn morning
06:26 mathw pmichaud: that tarball builds very nicely here and seems to work (fedora 13 x86_64)
06:26 kiwen joined #perl6
06:26 * mathw -> the office
06:26 jnthn pmichaud: Gotta run off to station very shortly - how's things going?
06:26 mathw (buzzing like a mad thing with the sight of Form.pm in the distribution oh my he should have written some documentation)
06:26 azawawi jnthn: hi there
06:27 * azawawi forks blizkost
06:28 * tylercurtis should not have decided to build the R* beta5 tarball in a VM.
06:29 jnthn azawawi: hi
06:29 jnthn azawawi: Any luck on Blizkost with Strawberry?
06:30 azawawi jnthn: not really.. please see http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2010-07-29#i_2629431
06:31 itz well the compiler tests pass on beta6 on FreeBSD 8.1
06:35 jnthn azawawi: OK, thanks
06:35 jnthn Gotta to go the station...back in a bit.
06:46 dalek niecza: a5771c1 | sorear++ |  (2 files):
06:46 dalek niecza: Use a trait to explicitly mark functions that handle their own binding, rather
06:46 dalek niecza: than brokenly overloading "no signature"
06:46 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a5771c16e33afe5c63b3803f13456c0864e6a62e
06:46 dalek niecza: 4fd8ff5 | sorear++ |  (2 files):
06:46 dalek niecza: Implement placeholder variables
06:46 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4fd8ff50548bbd81143c7308a724550f94df6414
06:46 dalek niecza: 6a4a1ba | sorear++ |  (4 files):
06:46 dalek niecza: Eliminate cloning of lexpads
06:46 dalek niecza: We still clone the subs, but cloning the lexpads themselves seems to accomplish
06:46 dalek niecza: nothing useful in terms of supporting semantics, and it's not even compatible
06:46 dalek niecza: with what perl 5 does, but it did complicate stuff quite a bit.
06:46 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6a4a1bae6307b4c4b8d3c7f9517629fdc9551479
06:46 dalek niecza: 5b65b5a | sorear++ | Sig.pm:
06:46 dalek niecza: Add low-level support for optional parameters
06:46 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/5b65b5a27c873ef9d47d88c654b70ede08747247
06:46 dalek niecza: 46a4ce5 | sorear++ |  (2 files):
06:46 dalek niecza: Implement $_ as a placeholder
06:46 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/46a4ce5f13366fcee8fc0e1f643e7acc7d2edbc3
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07:02 azawawi jnthn: my first git pull request sent :)
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07:07 szabgab rakudo:  say "a b,c,d" ~~ rule { a \w ** [\,] }
07:07 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«a b␤»
07:08 szabgab can anyone help me to understand why this does not match the whole string?
07:08 moritz_ rakudo:  say "a b,c,d" ~~ rule { a \w**[\,] }
07:08 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«a b␤»
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07:08 moritz_ rakudo:  say "a b,c,d" ~~ rule { a \w**\, }
07:08 sorear [\,] seems very contrived
07:08 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«a b␤»
07:09 moritz_ sorear: still it should work, no?
07:09 sorear should
07:09 szabgab oh, right I don't need the [] at the end
07:10 moritz_ rakudo:  say "a b,c,d" ~~ rule { a \w[\,\w]* }
07:10 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«a b,c,d␤»
07:10 dalek niecza: cc41bd3 | sorear++ |  (2 files):
07:10 dalek niecza: Implement chaining boolean operators, with short circuiting
07:10 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/cc41bd39db1331f2c59756ea4065276e7a8198ae
07:11 szabgab moritz_: yes, that's a workaround :)
07:11 szabgab thanks
07:12 moritz_ szabgab: I have no idea what's wrong.
07:12 moritz_ rakudo:  say "a b,c,d" ~~ token { a <.ws>  \w ** \, }
07:12 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«a b␤»
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08:15 pmichaud http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta7.tar.gz  # candidate with latest blizkost fixes from sorear++
08:15 sftp_ joined #perl6
08:17 * mathw gets all excited
08:21 * moritz_ downloads and compiles
08:23 Ross joined #perl6
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08:29 * mscha wishes everyone a Merry Christmas
08:29 baest :)
08:30 snarkyboojum you almost want a "This is rakudo star" type version string when you do ./perl6 -v :)
08:31 pmichaud yes, but we also want it to be separate from the compiler version
08:31 pmichaud so it needs to really say "This is Rakudo Star version ..., built from Rakudo Perl compiler version XXX and Parrot version YYY"
08:32 snarkyboojum yeah
08:32 pmichaud which means having the distribution affect the compiler code somehow
08:32 cxreg "with sprinkles on top"
08:32 pmichaud all of which can be done...just have to figure out how to handle that cleanly.
08:33 pmichaud (and not likely for today's release)
08:33 cosimo is anyone packaging rakudo* for debian?
08:33 cosimo would it be a nice thing to have?
08:33 dakkar joined #perl6
08:33 pmichaud I expect a number of packing folks will start creating .deb and .rpm based on Rakudo Star
08:33 moritz_ it would be a nice thing to have
08:33 pmichaud *packaging
08:33 cosimo rakudo: my @x = <a b c d>; say +@x;
08:34 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«4␤»
08:34 cosimo pmichaud: i was starting to look into how to make one
08:34 moritz_ somebody talked about it recently - but I don't know if any actions were taken
08:34 cosimo but if there's someone already up to it
08:34 moritz_ the first step is certainly providing parrot-2.6.0 packages
08:35 pmichaud I think parrot packages might already exist.
08:36 pmichaud I'm guessing 2.6.0 might not exist, though.
08:37 cosimo rakudo: my @x; @x //= <a b c>; say @x;
08:37 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea:  ( no output )
08:37 pmichaud @x is already defined, so it won't be set.
08:37 cosimo rakudo: my @x; @x = <a b c> unless @x.defined; say @x;
08:37 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«␤»
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08:38 cosimo mmh, 'my @x' makes @x defined?
08:38 pmichaud as an empty array, yes.
08:38 cosimo rakudo: my @x; say @x.perl;
08:38 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«[]␤»
08:39 cosimo rakudo: my @x; unless @x { @x = <a b> }; say @x.perl;
08:39 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«["a", "b"]␤»
08:39 pmichaud perhaps declaring "my @x"  should leave @x undefined until it gets vivified by some sort of operation, though.
08:40 cosimo so, iiuc, 'Mu' is the new 'undef'?
08:40 pmichaud cosimo: one of them :-)
08:40 moritz_ it's one of the new undefs
08:40 snarkyboojum the most undef? :)
08:40 pmichaud most generic undef, perhaps.
08:41 Su-Shee "there is no definition. it's all in your mind."
08:41 cosimo perl6 is addictive
08:41 moritz_ though for non-erro undefs, you usually use Any
08:41 pmichaud it's not addictive.  I can stop at any time.  Maybe now would be a good time.  :-)
08:43 pmichaud rakudo:  say 'a b,c,d' ~~ rule { \w  <[a..d> ** ',' }
08:43 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed regex at line 22, near "{ \\w  <[a."␤»
08:43 moritz_ you mean, before the R* release?
08:43 pmichaud rakudo:  say 'a b,c,d' ~~ rule { \w  <[a..d]> ** ',' }
08:43 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«a b,c,d␤»
08:43 moritz_ so, a problem with \w ?
08:43 pmichaud bug located
08:43 pmichaud yes
08:43 pmichaud it's a problem with using ** on any character class
08:43 thebird joined #perl6
08:44 moritz_ but isn't <[a..d]> a character class too?
08:44 pmichaud it's an enumerated character class, so different internally
08:45 moritz_ my first R* one-liner:
08:45 moritz_ ./perl6 -e 'use Math::Model; my $m = Math::Model.new(derivatives => { v => "y", a => "v" }, initials => { v => 1, a => 0, y => 0}, variables => { a => { -$:y } }, captures => <y>); $m.integrate(:from(0), :to(10)); $m.render-svg("spring.svg")'
08:46 moritz_ output: http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/spring.svg
08:46 cosimo despite the fact that new bugs are popping up all the time, for ex. my modules haven't been having any regressions due to newer rakudos for long time
08:46 pmichaud moritz_: I was half expecting "Null PMC Access in ... "  :-P
08:46 moritz_ that's the model of an oscillating spring
08:46 moritz_ and the curve shows the height
08:47 cosimo maybe it's also because I'm coding "baby perl6" :)
08:47 cosimo beta7 compiled and installed just fine
08:47 moritz_ cosimo: most error reports are about not-yet-explored corners
08:47 moritz_ cosimo: only very few regressions occur - thanks to testing :-)
08:48 cosimo pmichaud: this is the only strange message i got, http://nopaste.snit.ch/22411
08:49 cosimo Could not find sub &Nil in NativeCall.pm6
08:49 pmichaud cosimo: looking
08:49 pmichaud that one shouldn't have come up, most likely.
08:49 moritz_ cosimo: I got that message when an old .pir file was somewhere
08:49 moritz_ like in ~/.perl6/lib/
08:50 cosimo moritz_: aha
08:50 pmichaud yes, that looks like the likely culprit
08:50 cosimo yes, I have old stuff in ~/.perl6
08:50 cosimo maybe the * installer could wipe out ~/.perl6 ?
08:50 moritz_ no
08:50 pmichaud certainly not :)
08:50 moritz_ it might warn
08:50 moritz_ in Configure.pl, preferably
08:51 pmichaud the module loader should warn about such things
08:51 moritz_ I know that my p6 environment conflicts with R*, that's why I installed it as a different user
08:53 cosimo that was a stupid idea maybe.
08:53 cosimo is that i'm used to rebuild everything everytime
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08:56 cosimo rakudo: my @x = <a b c>; if @x == 3 { say "You are right" }
08:56 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«You are right␤»
08:57 cosimo rakudo: my @x = <a b c>; say @x[2];
08:57 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«c␤»
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09:03 masak oh hai, #perl6!
09:04 frettled shark!
09:04 frettled masak: o/
09:04 moritz_ \o
09:04 masak \o/
09:04 frettled ~~~~~~~~~/\~~~~~~
09:05 masak frettled: my, you look shark today.
09:05 lucash joined #perl6
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09:05 frettled Today is still Rakudo Star day, right?
09:05 [particle] joined #perl6
09:06 moritz_ right
09:06 frettled I will SO enjoy this.
09:08 _jaldhar joined #perl6
09:08 lucash 有说中文的吗?
09:08 Leonidas joined #perl6
09:08 moritz_ lucash: if you ask in English, your chances of getting a good answer are higher
09:08 lucash can anybody speek chinese?
09:09 moritz_ I'm sure > 1G people can :-)
09:09 * masak
09:09 moritz_ http://conferences.yapceurope.org/ye2010/news/617 <-- still no correct answers submitted - some #perl6 folks should try
09:09 au|irc lucash: 有, 但我得出門了, masak 會說一點兒, but this channel is primarily english :)
09:09 jnthn pmichaud: latest beta-7 is busted on Win32
09:09 jnthn ./perl6 --target=pir --output=C:\Consulting\rakudo-star-beta7\install\lib\parrot
09:09 jnthn \2.6.0\languages\perl6\lib/YAML/Dumper.pir C:\Consulting\rakudo-star-beta7\insta
09:09 jnthn ll\lib\parrot\2.6.0\languages\perl6\lib/YAML/Dumper.pm
09:09 jnthn '.' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
09:10 au|irc seen mberends
09:10 lucash ok, maybe i can learn some more english here .
09:10 masak lucash: 你用Perl 6的吗?
09:10 sorear your command of English word order is remarkably good
09:10 lucash is this page write by Perl6 ?
09:11 sorear you already speak English better than any machine translator
09:11 masak lucash: no, likely not. are you coming in through webchat.freenode.net?
09:11 moritz_ au|irc: the IRC logs say mberends was last active on 2010-07-27 23:25 UTC
09:11 au|irc k, thx. beta6 works splendidly on macbook here
09:11 au|irc was just trying ths HTTP::Daemon sample code
09:12 au|irc needed to replace "$r.method" with "$r.request_method"
09:12 lucash masak: I have perl6 installed a few minutes ago;
09:12 masak where can I download and try the latest beta?
09:12 masak lucash: \o/
09:12 lucash perl6.org
09:12 moritz_ http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta7.tar.gz
09:12 au|irc and for some reason "my HTTP::Request $r" needs to be replaced with "my $r", otherwise infix:<=> fails typecheck - but the .WHAT() is HTTP::Request alright
09:12 masak lucash: 你是哪里人?
09:12 au|irc but otherwise looking very cool :)
09:12 * au|irc wishes everyone a merry summer Xmas
09:12 lucash 湖南人,现在在广东深圳
09:12 * au|irc needs to run -- bbl :)
09:13 masak lucash: the perl6.org page is pure static HTML.
09:13 pmichaud jnthn: is that problem occuring for all module installs, or just the YAML::Dumper one?
09:13 jnthn pmichaud: All
09:13 moritz_ it doesn't like ./ ?
09:13 jnthn pmichaud: ./ is FAIL on windows
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09:13 masak lucash: ah, Hunan and Guangdong. I know where that is.
09:13 pmichaud jnthn: was it FAIL earlier?  I don't think I changed anything there.
09:14 lucash i means i connected from perl6.org
09:14 azawawi jnthn: ping
09:14 jnthn pmichaud: I didn't try anything since BETA 4 last night
09:14 jnthn That worked.
09:14 cognominal where do I download the rakudo beta?
09:15 pmichaud jnthn: that's what I mean, I haven't really changed anything w.r.t. module install then
09:15 pmichaud *since then
09:15 masak lucash: yes. if you did, you're connected through webchat.freenode
09:15 lucash 我怎么才可以对你说话呢??
09:15 * pmichaud checks commit logs
09:15 jnthn pmichaud: The Rakudo installation seems to work though, it's just the modules
09:15 moritz_ cognominal: http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta7.tar.gz
09:15 cognominal probably a good idea would be to add the URL to the channel title.
09:15 * moritz_ was about to do that
09:15 azawawi jnthn: traced blizkost DLL message box to "$P1 = loadlib 'blizkost_group', $P0" in perl5.pir (on perl 5.12)
09:16 masak lucash: it's a JavaScript program. no Perl 6 involved in the IRC client, sadly.
09:16 Topic for #perl6is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star beta: http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta7.tar.gz
09:16 pmichaud do we really need it in the title for 2.5 hrs?!
09:16 pmichaud that seems... odd.
09:16 masak lucash: 我怎样才能帮助您开始使用Perl 6?
09:17 moritz_ pmichaud: I've answered that question 2 times on 20 minutes or so :-)
09:17 jnthn pmichaud: Mostly need to concentrate on meeting here
09:17 * masak uses Google Translate, hoping the language won't be too botched
09:17 pmichaud jnthn: I'll take a look.
09:17 lucash 我是初学者..应该从哪里开始呢??
09:18 jnthn 'k
09:18 pmichaud oh, I think I know where the problem may be.
09:18 lucash 我用了一段时间的perl5
09:18 jnthn pmichaud: oh, did you switch to copying a perl6 executable out of the build directory?
09:18 pmichaud my @cmd = ('./perl6', '--target=pir', "--output=$out", $pm);
09:18 pmichaud ...but I could've sworn it's been that way for quite a while.
09:19 masak lucash: check out http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/perl-6-advent-calendar/ and http://perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6
09:19 pmichaud jnthn: fwiw, that "./perl6" line is from before your fixes.  :)
09:20 moritz_ maybe it's easier to modify PATH, and always use 'perl6' ?
09:20 jnthn pmichaud: huh :S
09:20 jnthn pmichaud: So I wonder how this worked on my machine at home.
09:20 pmichaud jnthn: I dunno.  :)
09:20 jnthn pmichaud: But then fails on my laptop.
09:20 jnthn I certainly got the modules installed yesterday
09:20 kiwen Perl6太不同了,对于老Perl人来说,我们该怎么办?
09:20 pmichaud anyway, I'll change it to always use the full path to the install bin
09:21 jnthn +1
09:21 lucash 怎么个不同法??
09:21 snyh joined #perl6
09:21 pmichaud huh
09:22 pmichaud I was already passing in the full path to the perl6 binary, but then never used it in the script.
09:22 pmichaud weird.
09:22 pmichaud creating new candidate tarball
09:22 lucash what's the differece between perl5 and perl6 ?
09:22 pmichaud it's like the difference between a camel and a butterfly :)
09:22 kiwen 很多,得用新的方式去写Perl程序
09:22 moritz_ lucash: quite a lot; they are different language, though both are Perl, in some sense
09:23 moritz_ lucash: http://perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6 tries to answer that question in more detail
09:24 moritz_ pmichaud: btw if you want to include the 5-to-6 series as .pod files in R*, I can point you to the pod files
09:24 masak lucash: Perl 5的和Perl 6是在表面上类似,但在不同的深度
09:24 masak hm, s/的//
09:24 pmichaud moritz_: for the most part I'm thinking it's better to get people used to going to the perl6.org site
09:24 pmichaud rather than try to bundle everything in R* itself.
09:24 moritz_ pmichaud: agreed
09:25 pmichaud I even changed the announcement wording a bit to try to indicate "perl6.org is your answer"
09:25 shomodj joined #perl6
09:26 masak lucash: but the only way to really understand the differences between Perl 5 and Perl 6, is to actually use Perl 6 for a while.
09:26 moritz_ and use perl 5 for a while, too :-)
09:27 pmichaud jnthn: if you get a chance:  http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta8.tar.gz
09:27 pmichaud (might wait a sec to let me finish testing it here)
09:27 cxreg masak: is there any such thing as idiomatic perl 6 yet?
09:27 Mowah joined #perl6
09:28 masak cxreg: I think there is, but not 100% and not for very many types of code.
09:28 moritz_ cxreg: we're slowly working on some good practices
09:28 moritz_ for example: use whitespace around infix operators
09:28 masak cxreg: I know non-idiomatic Perl 6 when I see it :P
09:28 cxreg eh
09:28 cxreg lol
09:29 moritz_ std: 1<2
09:29 p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Whitespace required before < operator at /tmp/iC5EaU1rH3 line 1:␤------> [32m1<[33m⏏[31m2[0m␤    expecting escape␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
09:29 cosimo rakudo: my $x = time(); say $x;
09:29 cxreg moritz_: wow
09:29 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1280394544␤»
09:29 masak cxreg: people are still allowed to use parentheses after 'for' and 'if'. but it kinda looks wonky.
09:29 masak rakudo: for (1, 2, 3) { .say }
09:29 moritz_ ... if they put a space before the (
09:29 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
09:29 cxreg presumably any such "best practices" are likely to end up in the book
09:30 pmichaud s/the/a/
09:30 masak that'd be desirable.
09:30 jnthn pmichaud: just set off a build
09:30 cxreg pmichaud: "the book" meaning perl6/book.git
09:30 Topic for #perl6is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star beta: http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta8.tar.gz
09:31 pmichaud 149 minutes.
09:31 moritz_ which actually has a name
09:31 moritz_ "Using Perl 6"
09:31 pmichaud I dunno, "the book" has a nice ring to it.  :-)
09:31 moritz_ we should start using that name :-)
09:31 pmichaud speaking of which, chromatic++ was asking about cover designs at oscon :-)
09:32 * moritz_ would like to be involved in such discussions, if possible
09:32 jnthn lolcat with "I can use Perl 6?"
09:32 jnthn ;-)
09:32 kiwen left #perl6
09:32 pmichaud jnthn: "make modules-install" is now using the full pathname on my machine.
09:33 cxreg pmichaud: i considered calling it "The Book"
09:33 cxreg but maybe thats too presumptuous
09:33 pmichaud For some reason I couldn't get the book to build on my system earlier.  It worked fine last week, but today I got weird errors.
09:33 pmichaud PerlJam++ came to my rescue, though :-)
09:33 mathw people might think it's about cthulhu
09:33 mathw and Perl 6 isn't that scary :)
09:33 muixirt joined #perl6
09:34 huf call it "the good book"
09:34 pmichaud my mind tonight was wandering to ideas about   the "Rakudo Dark Star"  and "Rakudo Death Star"  editions.  :-P
09:34 pmichaud ...at which point I was thinking of making some movie clips around those themese
09:34 huf there's also Lone Star ;)
09:34 pmichaud *themes
09:35 cxreg and Home Star
09:35 pmichaud well, I'm still amused by the one naysayer who talked about "Rakudo Star Trek" as this endless quest for .......
09:35 huf Day Star
09:35 huf :D
09:35 huf where no perl has gone before
09:35 JimmyZ joined #perl6
09:35 muixirt R* is based on the "Atlanta" release?
09:35 JimmyZ :)
09:35 moritz_ muixirt: no
09:35 JimmyZ masak++
09:35 moritz_ muixirt: that proved to be too broken
09:35 pmichaud muixirt: yes, with a few updates since then
09:36 pmichaud muixirt: it's not strictly the atlanta release, no.
09:36 cxreg pmichaud: i think the term was "Perl Trek" at the time
09:36 moritz_ http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=851885
09:36 * moritz_ tries to do some advertising :-)
09:36 pmichaud there's a "Star+0" tag in the github repository that identifies the exact version of rakudo being used for this star release.
09:36 cxreg http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?cid=70186&amp;sid=43556
09:36 sorear Is lucash still here and needing help?
09:37 lucash I'm reading UseringPerl6-draft.pdf
09:37 cosimo rakudo: my %x = ('a'=>1,'b'=>2); %x<a>.delete; say %x.perl;
09:37 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Method 'delete' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/WkMgCez7ca␤»
09:37 cosimo rakudo: my %x = ('a'=>1,'b'=>2); delete %x<a>; say %x.perl;
09:37 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &delete␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/_4WwfWD1Xl␤»
09:38 szbalint masak: the world IS watching :)
09:38 masak :)
09:38 cosimo rakudo: my %x = ('a'=>1,'b'=>2); %x.delete('a'); say %x.perl;
09:38 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«{"b" => 2}␤»
09:38 cosimo ok :)
09:38 masak great. now p6l has made the ranges thread be about localization. feels like a sort of Godwin's law could be invoked on that thread now.
09:39 * moritz_ has stopped again following that thread
09:39 pmichaud moritz_++  # nice answer to the "join two files" question on perlmonks!
09:40 cosimo rakudo: if my $x = 3.14156259 { print $x }
09:40 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«3.14156259»
09:40 cxreg pmichaud: when the book didnt build, was it complaining about a missing UsingPerl6.letter.d or something like that?
09:40 pmichaud cxreg: yes.
09:40 moritz_ it seems the A4 version is more robust :-)
09:41 sorear The correct answer to our friend on perlmonks is "paste
09:41 sorear "
09:41 masak lucash: if you have any questions, feel free to ask here. 如果您有任何疑问,请问在这里
09:41 sorear paste FILE1 FILE2 prints lines from both files, in parrallel, separated by tabs, padding short files with blanks
09:41 lucash OK,thx
09:42 sorear JimmyZ is another native speaker
09:42 masak moritz_: how'd that be written if one doesn't want to abort when the shortest file ends?
09:42 flw flw@waker:~/soft/rakudo-star-beta7$ ./perl6
09:42 flw > my @array = (1..10000);
09:42 flw Segmentation fault
09:42 flw flw@waker:~/soft/rakudo-star-beta7$
09:43 mb_ joined #perl6
09:43 betterworld joined #perl6
09:43 sorear flw: Don't make arrays that big.
09:43 masak flw: likely due to out-of-memory.
09:44 flw big array lead to Segmentation fault
09:44 moritz_ masak: if you know in advance which one is short, pad one of them with '' xx _*
09:44 sorear Right.  Don't do that, then.
09:44 huf 10k is a big array?
09:44 moritz_ funny thing is, infinite arrays don't segfault
09:44 pmichaud parrot has trouble with large arrays.
09:44 moritz_ my @a = 1..*
09:44 pmichaud or large data structures
09:44 JimmyZ oh,flw is here too, another native speaker
09:44 huf moritz_: yeah, but those are small infinite ;)
09:44 masak huf: it is for Rakudo.
09:44 sorear huf: each element results in the allocation of about 200 bytes on the stack at GC mark time
09:44 JimmyZ flw: It's me!
09:44 sorear huf: so yes, 10k can easily cause segfault
09:45 huf :(
09:45 cosimo is there anything resembling Errno in perl6? like 'if $! == EINPROGRESS { do_something }'
09:45 masak 卓明亮! \o/
09:45 jnthn pmichaud: Excellent, beta8 works.
09:45 moritz_ cosimo: no
09:45 pmichaud jnthn: \o/
09:45 cosimo moritz_: ok, non blocking sockets?
09:45 sorear cosimo: we do something completely different for that
09:45 moritz_ cosimo: I might work on a proper exception system though
09:45 JimmyZ masak: :)
09:45 moritz_ cosimo: mberends wanted to work on them - no idea what the status is
09:46 hryk joined #perl6
09:46 masak JimmyZ: are you excited today? I am.
09:46 lucash flw 很厉害.我听说过.
09:46 JimmyZ yes!
09:46 mb_ hi, i'm sure i'm just not looking hard enough, but how does one consult Perl6 module documentation when the installed rakudo doesn't seem to have perl6doc or similar?
09:46 JimmyZ 呵呵
09:47 masak mb_: it depends a lot. what module are we talking about?
09:47 pmichaud mb_: there's not a perl6doc yet.
09:47 zulon joined #perl6
09:47 brian_ joined #perl6
09:48 cosimo rakudo: my $ret = connect(42);
09:48 pmichaud mb_: that's something I hope we'll be able to correct very soon.
09:48 sorear priority things to get working in niecza: arrays, hashes, simple autovivification, named parameters, simple MMD, the rest of the regex syntax, roles, LTM
09:48 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &connect␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/693wKg4UMT␤»
09:48 * sorear out.
09:48 mb_ pmichaud, ok, thanks, I thought that might be the case. I just wanted to browse the docs for the included modules, nothing serious
09:49 pmichaud mb in the modules/ directory one can generally view the READMEs.  I know that's less than awesome, but that's what we have at the moment.
09:49 masak sorear++
09:49 pmichaud anyone feel that I'm going a bit too far in describing things Rakudo Star doesn't implement yet?  http://github.com/rakudo/star/blob/master/skel/docs/announce/2010.07
09:50 moritz_ yes
09:50 pmichaud just added a bit more, reload :)
09:50 moritz_ no need to include hypothetical variables
09:50 moritz_ people don't knwo what that is anyway
09:51 pmichaud removed.
09:51 moritz_ the others are fine, IMHO
09:51 pmichaud okay.
09:51 moritz_ ..with one exception :-)
09:51 moritz_ "and other phasers"
09:51 moritz_ we do implement a few of them
09:52 moritz_ that's not quite clear
09:52 pmichaud "and some other phasers"?
09:52 moritz_ better
09:53 pmichaud fixed, pushed.
09:54 frettled pmichaud: this will be in docs/announce/2010.07, right?
09:54 pmichaud frettled: yes.
09:54 pmichaud and in the various posted announcements.
09:55 frettled Hmm.  Perhaps a small pointer from README to that, then.
09:56 * frettled fiddles quickly to see how that can be done neatly.
09:59 patrickas joined #perl6
10:00 patrickas Hello perlsixers! It's a starry night tonight!
10:00 pmichaud t-120
10:01 masak patrickas++ # starry night
10:01 moritz_ 12:00 UTC is the target?
10:01 pmichaud moritz_: that's my current target, yes.
10:02 patrickas pmichaud about the annoucement, small nit, it's kinda "unfair/weird" that there is "and much more" in the not implemented features, but not in the available ones ...
10:02 moritz_ aye, remove that part - it says "key features" on top anyway :-)
10:02 pmichaud patrickas: yes, I just thought of that as well.  but I'm still biased to "underpromise, overdeliver"
10:02 Searle joined #perl6
10:02 pmichaud I can remove "..and much more", yes.
10:03 masak +1
10:03 szbalint pmichaud: "interactive readline doesn't read Unicode" -> "interactive readline that reads Unicode"
10:03 patrickas you could just leave the ellipsis to make it clear the list is not comprehensive ...
10:03 cxreg Batteries Not Included
10:04 pmichaud I already have "Some of the..." so I guess the ellipsis isn't needid.
10:04 pmichaud *needed
10:04 pmichaud szabgab: +1
10:04 patrickas that's right!
10:04 pmichaud changes pushed.
10:05 moritz_ abgab != balint :-)
10:05 pmichaud oops
10:05 pmichaud right
10:05 pmichaud I got it right in the comment message :)
10:05 szbalint hehe, common mistake :)
10:05 pmichaud well, not exactly.
10:05 pmichaud anyway, I got the 'lint' part right in the commit message.
10:05 moritz_ (though so far I've only met one of them in person, so I can't be quite sure - hope that fix that at YAPC :-)
10:06 frettled Proposed README changes: http://pastebin.com/ddcKbyai
10:08 masak beta7 installs fine here. pmichaud++
10:08 moritz_ beta7? you're so behind, masak++ :-)
10:08 frettled beta7 is SO yesterday ;)
10:09 pmichaud frettled: your README patch seems to be for the rakudo README, not the Star README?
10:09 szbalint how fitting, a lint fix gets lint kudos :)
10:09 cxreg so besides rakudo, are there any other relatively mature parrot compilers?
10:09 frettled pmichaud: arghle, good point :)
10:09 frettled I ended up editing the wrong tree, haha.
10:09 masak moritz_: huh? I got the URL from you not an hour ago :P
10:09 pmichaud :-)
10:10 pmichaud t-110
10:10 moritz_ cxreg: lua, tcl (partcl/partcl-nqp)
10:10 moritz_ don't know how pynie is doing
10:10 colomon t minus 110?  woah.
10:10 moritz_ where 110 is in minutes :-)
10:11 pmichaud 110 is "magical Pm time units", which means I can make them as long or short as I need them to be.  :-P
10:11 colomon I thought we were looking at an evening release.
10:11 cxreg moritz_: might be nice if this release draws attention to those projects too
10:11 colomon will be much harder to justify having celebratory Scotch at 8am local.
10:11 pmichaud as I said in my Rakudo Star talk at OSCON.... "we've been working on Perl 6 for what... three or four years now...?"  :-P
10:11 Trashlord joined #perl6
10:11 davewood joined #perl6
10:11 lichtkind joined #perl6
10:11 pmichaud colomon: celebrations can last as long as needed :)
10:12 moritz_ cxreg: wouldn't be bad, but IMHO outside of our scope
10:12 lichtkind pmichaud: :)
10:12 colomon pmichaud++
10:12 pmichaud somehow I felt that 12h00 utc would be more appropriate.
10:12 pmichaud not sure exactly why, but I like it.
10:12 pmichaud it does mean that most of the world will be in "July 29th"
10:13 moritz_ fells better than 23:59 :-)
10:14 masak I think I found an inconsistency between S26 and the spec. but I should probably save it until after the release frenzy.
10:14 pmichaud (S26 isn't part of the spec?  ;-)
10:14 pmichaud or did you mean "and other parts of the spec"?
10:14 Su-Shee what's the final download link for everyone?
10:15 masak I consider it less a part of the spec than other synopses, since it has no Perl 6 implementation yet.
10:15 masak but yes, "other parts of the spec".
10:15 pmichaud Su-Shee: it'll be on github.... see the first part of the draft announcement
10:15 cxreg wait, ingy wrote S26?  and it's not POD-in-yaml?
10:15 pmichaud ingy contributed to early drafts, yes.
10:15 moritz_ but mostly written by TheDamian, iirc
10:16 masak aye.
10:16 masak I'm correcting typos as I read along. will commit those when I'm done.
10:17 pmichaud one of the pieces I'm really keen to implement is .WHY  :-)
10:17 masak I'm also considering writign a full proposal to p6l before changing S26 to include the latest finds on declarator-style Pod.
10:17 moritz_ masak: don't :-)
10:17 pmichaud masak: how many colors do you want that spec in?  ;-)
10:17 masak I know, I know.
10:18 masak they will probably hack the proposal to bits, but someone may have something good to say as well. strange things do happen.
10:18 frettled pmichaud: There: http://pastebin.com/RXu093aB
10:18 pmichaud "no plan survives first contact with p6l"
10:18 masak I'll nopaste the patch here first, of course.
10:18 Su-Shee utc 12 is 14 at my time - that would be wonderful.
10:18 moritz_ Su-Shee: s/my/our/ :-)
10:19 Su-Shee moritz_: _you_ already have at least 10 perl6' around, what do you need another one for? :)
10:19 frettled Su-Shee: he's a collector?
10:20 moritz_ Su-Shee: for blogging :-)
10:20 colomon so how do I add a test to the stress test but not basic spec test?  is it the "long" modifier, or is that something different?
10:21 Su-Shee so 14 uhr it is? (shall we hope for success and bring down github? ;)
10:21 xabbu42 joined #perl6
10:21 pmichaud can I eliminate docs/introduction ?  it's not quite clear where it goes.
10:22 pmichaud I'd rather leave it as "see http://perl6.org/"
10:22 moritz_ colomon: # stress
10:22 pmichaud or have it point to a page on rakudo.org
10:22 moritz_ Su-Shee: aye
10:22 colomon colomon++
10:23 colomon moritz_++
10:23 colomon colomon-- # obviously not fully awake
10:23 pmichaud colomon: I think it's documented at the top of the spectest.data file, fwiw :)
10:23 moritz_ colomon++ # writing tests
10:23 colomon pmichaud: I looked there before asking
10:23 moritz_ obviously not fully awake :-)
10:23 colomon but you're right, it is documented there.
10:23 colomon sigh
10:24 pmichaud feel free to improve it :)
10:24 lucash how can I find perl6doc ?
10:24 pmichaud lucash: there isn't a perl6doc yet.  :(
10:24 colomon pmichaud: pretty sure it's just another sign I'm not really awake
10:24 Su-Shee moritz_: I'm going to slogan it as "make your camel a butterfly" ;)
10:24 pmichaud colomon: maybe a patch that is something like  "HEY COLOMON WAKE UP AND READ THE DOCUMENTATION WE ALREADY PROVIDED!"  :-P
10:25 pmichaud sometimes I need a patch like that for myself. :)
10:25 Su-Shee silly me drinks coffee.
10:26 pmichaud I'm getting rid of docs/introduction unless I hear an objection soon.  :)
10:27 colomon "or forever hold your peace"
10:27 pmichaud nah, we have "git revert"  :-)
10:28 pmichaud it's like a magic "undo" button for real life.
10:28 moritz_ which is actually much easier to use than svn's revert mechanism
10:28 masak "git makes it never too late to say you're sorry"
10:28 moritz_ ... unless you get merge conflicts
10:28 pmichaud but even then you can rewrite history.  :)
10:28 pmichaud "merge conflict?  I see no merge conflict here."
10:28 colomon I'm glad weddings don't really do that, because we're taking our little guy to one Saturday, and I'm pretty sure if the minister asked a question and there was a long moment of silence afterward, Henry would yell "Yes!" at the top of his lungs.
10:29 colomon he does that at home all the time...
10:29 pmichaud my first wedding asked that question
10:29 brian_ what happens after rakudo star? are there plans for a *+1, or something?
10:29 pmichaud I think my second wedding did as well, but the children (the only other people in attendance) wisely kept silent.  :)
10:30 pmichaud brian_: we'll have regular releases of the star series
10:30 colomon pmichaud: oh no, now I've got to worry about Saturday....
10:30 pmichaud brian_: at least monthly to begin with, possibly more frequently to deal with significant bug fixes or improvements
10:30 tadzik joined #perl6
10:30 brian_ pmichaud: ok, thanks
10:30 pmichaud as the emphasis moves away from "fix things" to "provide continuity across releases", we'll move to less-than-monthly
10:31 pmichaud but we'll always have some sort of time-based release.
10:31 colomon brian_: we'll also continue to have regular monthly releases of Rakudo non-star.
10:31 pmichaud yes, the compiler will continue to have monthly releases, on a separate timeline from the distributions
10:31 pmichaud T-90
10:31 masak \o/
10:31 brian_ colomon: that answers my next question
10:31 pmichaud afk for a bit.
10:32 bbkr std: {}*{}*{}
10:32 p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 116m␤»
10:32 brian_ fwiw beta8 passes all tests here, and parrot passes fulltest
10:33 mathw \o/
10:34 bbkr std: *//* # curious
10:34 p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 116m␤»
10:36 colomon2 joined #perl6
10:36 daxim joined #perl6
10:36 tuxuday rakudo: say 'poda, santosh';
10:36 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«poda, santosh␤»
10:37 tadzik1 joined #perl6
10:37 tuxuday rakudo: say 'santosh, is stupid';
10:37 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«santosh, is stupid␤»
10:37 jt_ joined #perl6
10:37 tuxuday rakudo: say 'Santosh is', 5+ 4;
10:37 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Santosh is9␤»
10:38 uasi left #perl6
10:38 bbkr std: say ---0.0
10:38 p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 115m␤»
10:38 bbkr rakudo: say ---0.0
10:38 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/o1nSSXTt_t␤»
10:38 * bbkr reports
10:38 masak bbkr: nothing to report, IMO.
10:38 masak bbkr: STD only catches parse failures.
10:38 mathw just because STD parses it doesn't mean it's semantically correct
10:39 bbkr hmm, let me check op precedence again
10:39 bbkr indeed. it's "-(--0.0)" not --(-0.0). masak++
10:40 masak no, LTM would have it as --(-0.0), and Rakudo gets that right.
10:40 colomon beta8 fails on my 64-bit windows box.  (don't think I've ever had a successful Rakudo build there, actually.  I hate that machine.)  :(
10:40 masak the error is because you're trying to modify -0.0, a constant.
10:40 masak STD doesn't flag that error, because it doesn't run the code, it only parses it.
10:41 bbkr yep. i meant it's parsed as --(-1). sorry about false alarm :)
10:41 Trashlord joined #perl6
10:45 bbkr std: say !!!!0
10:45 p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Negation metaoperator not followed by valid infix at /tmp/54CQUDcUCu line 1:␤------> [32msay !!!![33m⏏[31m0[0m␤    expecting any of:␤       bracketed infix␤  infix or meta-infix␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 116m␤»
10:46 bbkr std: say !!0
10:46 p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 115m␤»
10:47 bbkr std: say ! ! ! ! 0
10:47 p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 115m␤»
10:49 timbunce Given Rakudo Star release today I'd love to see someone blog about future plans/possibilities for 5-on-6 running and 5-to-6 conversion.
10:49 azert0x joined #perl6
10:49 mathw timbunce: people would be interested in that, yes
10:49 azert0x joined #perl6
10:49 mathw timbunce: No, that wasn't me volunteering to write it
10:50 lucash quit
10:50 timbunce mathw: :)
10:50 lucash byebye,everyone ..see you next;
10:51 zby joined #perl6
10:51 pmichaud I thought I saw mathw++ volunteer to write something.
10:51 Su-Shee how many women were at YAPC?
10:51 mathw pmichaud: Did you?
10:52 mathw I was mumbling earlier about how I really should have written some documentation for Form.pm already
10:52 pmichaud mathw: no, I think it was something about 5-on-6 or 5-to-6  :-) :-)
10:52 mathw Har har very funny
10:53 mathw You're getting incoherent from lack of sleep, clearly
10:53 pmichaud Su-Shee: I didn't notice a significant increase or decrease over previous years
10:53 pmichaud Su-Shee: however, OSCON had a lot more women than previous years afaict
10:54 Su-Shee yesterday, I started writing an application for a javascript conference here in berlin which is already sold out BUT they have google grants specifically for women to attend more conferences. pays entrance fee and some traveling. that might be a good thing for yapcs
10:54 pmichaud that would be a very good thing, I think.
10:55 Su-Shee mr shee on the other hand dryly said that one could easily open any conference entirely for women without fees and still wouldn't be run over. ;)
10:56 Su-Shee pmichaud: besides the money, it shiny to show off some google grant, so there is a strong incentive. (I live around the corner, my travel expenses will be 2,40,- Euro. ;)
10:56 Su-Shee "it's"
10:56 pmichaud Su-Shee: I agree.  Also, often one grant leads to more grants
10:57 pmichaud if only because you become known to the people giving away money :)
10:57 * jnthn about again for a moment
10:57 jnthn pmichaud: 1 hour to Rakudo Star?
10:57 pmichaud T-63
10:57 Su-Shee I'm going to try, I count on being "interesting enough" as I usally don't bring the "strong academic background in CS"
10:57 masak mathw: you're volunteering? great!
10:57 masak mathw++
10:58 dieken joined #perl6
10:58 snarkyboojum I get a couple of build errors for MiniDBD modules, but nothing fatal
10:58 snarkyboojum well, nothing fatal to the build of rakudo and other modules anyway
11:00 snarkyboojum 3600 seconds to go
11:00 jnthn pmichaud: \o/
11:00 pmichaud T-60
11:00 jferrero joined #perl6
11:00 masak rakudo: say sprintf "%d min, %d s remaining", $_ div 60, $_ % 60 given DateTime.new("2010-07-29T12:00:00Z").posix - time
11:00 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«79 min, 18 s remaining␤»
11:00 jnthn What time does the fire start shooting out the bottom of the tarball? :-)
11:01 pmichaud probably around t-2
11:01 masak moritz_: someone's clock is a bit slow.
11:01 jnthn :-D
11:01 pmichaud it's a big tarball :-)
11:02 masak rakudo: say sprintf "%d min, %d s remaining", $_ div 60 - 20, $_ % 60 given DateTime.new("2010-07-29T12:00:00Z").posix - time # :)
11:02 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«58 min, 1 s remaining␤»
11:02 masak moritz_: about 20 minutes slow. :)
11:03 darkop masak++
11:03 jnthn pmichaud: The "Storing classes in bytecode" thing is kinda, well, irrelevant for Rakudo.
11:03 jnthn pmichaud: Classes are just objects.
11:03 jnthn (Or will be, anyway)
11:03 pmichaud jnthn: you mean the thread or my response?
11:03 jnthn pmichaud: The thread overall
11:04 jnthn pmichaud: Once R* is out, I'll try and get some serious writing done (like, over the coming week or so) on where I see things going.
11:04 pmichaud they're mainly trying to get to a point where freeze/thaw can reduce our startup.
11:04 pmichaud I was just pointing out that "setting up classes" means something very different to us than what Parrot views a class as being.
11:04 pmichaud so yes, likely irrelevant.  :)
11:04 jnthn Aye, but since we won't use Class or Object after a couple/few months...
11:05 pmichaud the point of that thread really should be "freeze/thaw" and not "Class PMC"
11:05 jnthn Right.
11:05 jnthn That's the bigger issue here
11:05 pmichaud I'm hoping that's where it will lead
11:05 pmichaud which is why I was trying to move the discussion away from "Class PMC"
11:05 jnthn And in that case it's interesting.
11:05 jnthn aye, +1 on that
11:05 pmichaud I might've not been clear yet on that -- I'm a bit preoccupied with other things for some reason.  :-)
11:05 jnthn Anyway, I think allison will be at YAPC::EU so I can probably talk with her a bit on what I think things will look like.
11:06 jnthn Too bad chromatic won't be though.
11:07 * masak would like to meet chromatic some day
11:07 jnthn OK, time for me to get back to $dayjob stuffs
11:07 jnthn masak: Aye, I enjoyed doing so. :-)
11:07 pmichaud chromatic++ is one of my favorite people
11:07 jnthn masak: He was very pleasant and fun to spend time around. :-)
11:07 masak I can imagine.
11:08 colomon agreed, meeting chromatic at YAPC was cool.
11:08 azert0x joined #perl6
11:08 jnthn OK, I'm mostly distracted for the next little bit with stuff here :-)
11:08 colomon actually, all the Parrot gang there seemed like great guys.
11:09 colomon beta8 works great on my 64-bit Linux box.
11:09 tadzik where is it?
11:09 araujo joined #perl6
11:10 colomon tadzik: where is what?
11:10 tadzik colomon: beta8. Rakudo Star I suppose?
11:10 colomon http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-beta8.tar.gz
11:10 tadzik will try
11:15 alexm both beta8 and tarball made from star repo work fine for me too, all rakudo-tests pass
11:17 tadzik t/01-sanity/99-test-basic.t ........ Dubious, test returned 1 (wstat 256, 0x100)
11:21 korbatz joined #perl6
11:21 tadzik probably some lying pirs issue again
11:22 tadzik how do I install it into a specific directory?
11:23 moritz_ with --prefix
11:24 tadzik to Configure?
11:24 moritz_ but that won't stop it from picking up other .pirs
11:24 moritz_ yes
11:24 tadzik yeah, I know. After reconfigure I'll need to rebuild it, right?
11:24 moritz_ right
11:25 * masak S26
11:25 masak I didn't remember it as this good.
11:26 masak just needs a few minor tweaks. :)
11:26 moritz_ is there a page listing rules for Hague grant applications somewhere?
11:26 masak yes.
11:26 tadzik make DESTDIR=foo is also ok, as in Rakudo itself?
11:26 pmichaud moritz_: http://www.perlfoundation.org/ian_hague_perl_6_development_grants
11:27 pmichaud tadzik: DESTDIR= should work but is somewhat untested.
11:27 masak pmichaud++ # faster
11:27 tadzik pmichaud: will test
11:27 moritz_ pmichaud++ # thanks
11:28 pmichaud tadzik: it appears to be working on my system.
11:30 pmichaud T-30
11:30 whee pmichaud: I see the same failure
11:30 pmichaud what test are you running?
11:31 patrickas beta8 built but did not run on my PC :( it might be my fault for having a messed up env though!
11:31 whee more specific than 99-test-basic.t?
11:31 snarkyboojum FWIW, blowing away previous pirs for the MiniDBD stuff fixed my build errors
11:31 pmichaud whee: what command are you using to invoke the test?
11:31 whee make rakudo-test
11:31 pmichaud hmmm
11:32 cjk101010 joined #perl6
11:32 pmichaud any chance there's a Test.pir or Test.pm somewhere and that it's grabbing the wrong one?
11:32 patrickas windows7 here, I get "The Program can't start because libparrot.dll is missing from your computer"
11:32 whee could an existing rakudo install interfere with it?
11:32 frettled Where is beta9?  ;)
11:33 pmichaud whee: yes.
11:33 pmichaud patrickas: did you "make install"?
11:33 whee let me try removing it
11:33 tadzik pmichaud: it seems not to work on mine, when installed with fakeroot
11:33 patrickas pmichaud yes ... but I also have a different parrot / rakudo installed on some other path so it might be interfeering with it
11:34 tadzik pmichaud: it cp's to /usr/bin/perl6 anyway
11:34 tadzik what is more, cp doesn't fail, chmod does
11:34 masak yay -- http://twitter.com/morungos/status/19818766217
11:36 xinming_ joined #perl6
11:36 tadzik pmichaud: can it be possible to get the same working DESTDIR as in Rakudo?
11:36 kokajxo joined #perl6
11:37 tadzik packaging it now will be a little painful
11:37 pmichaud tadzik: afaik it is the same DESTDIR as rakudo.
11:37 pmichaud tadzik: I mean, it's using rakudo's makefile for the install.
11:37 tadzik pmichaud: I'm now using Configure.pl --prefix=/usr and make DESTDIR=$PKG install
11:38 tadzik will paste the build error
11:38 tadzik pmichaud: http://nopaste.snit.ch/22415
11:38 pmichaud tadzik: oh.  Note that you have to build/install parrot separately in order for it to work.
11:39 tadzik pmichaud: yeah, parrot's installed
11:39 jferrero AMD Turion64x2, Linux OpenSuse 11.2. No errors.
11:39 pmichaud looking
11:40 pmichaud tadzik: oh.  that particular step isn't actually installing anything "for real"
11:40 pmichaud I can have it not die if that step fails.
11:40 tadzik pmichaud: but it kills the whole process
11:40 pmichaud right
11:40 pmichaud so I can have it "not die"
11:40 tadzik pmichaud: what does it do anyway
11:40 tadzik ?
11:40 patrickas pmichaud: during make install i noticed rakudo-star-beta8\install\bin\perl6.exe being used ... it works when I run it that was, but the rakudo-star-beta8\perl6.exe gives me the error
11:41 pmichaud it just puts a copy of perl6 into the current directory
11:41 tadzik ah, I see
11:41 pmichaud to make it easy to run and test immediately.
11:41 patrickas maybe better wait for jnthn and see if he can help with it
11:41 pmichaud patrickas: thinking.
11:42 Su-Shee hm, clicking refresh doesn't really help until 2. ;)
11:42 lrmperl6 joined #perl6
11:43 pmichaud patrickas: yeah, windows is looking for the .dll in the same location as the executable, I think.
11:43 patrickas I can confirm that if you want ... just a sec
11:43 tadzik pmichaud: what about this installing? It'll break packaging on at least Arch Linux and similar, and maybe on more distros too
11:44 jnthn pmichaud: If you are copying the perl6.exe then you'll also need to copy the libparrot.dll too
11:45 pmichaud jnthn: where do we do that in rakudo now, ooc?
11:45 pmichaud tadzik: try changing lines 84 and 85 of your makefile from
11:45 colomon t-15
11:45 pmichaud $(CP) $(PARROT_BIN_DIR)/$(PERL6_EXE) .
11:45 pmichaud $(CHMOD) 755 $(PERL6_EXE)
11:45 pmichaud to
11:45 pmichaud -$(CP) $(PARROT_BIN_DIR)/$(PERL6_EXE) .
11:45 pmichaud -$(CHMOD) 755 $(PERL6_EXE)
11:45 pmichaud and then see if make works with DESTDIR=
11:46 whee pmichaud: make rakudo-test passes if I remove the rakudo I had installed (arch linux package)
11:46 pmichaud whee++ # thanks
11:46 ouin joined #perl6
11:46 tadzik pmichaud: rakudo/Makefile?
11:47 pmichaud tadzik: no, the Makefile above
11:47 pmichaud the one in the build dir
11:47 patrickas pmichaud: confirmed (what jnthn++ said) ... copying libparrot.dll to the same folder solves the issue
11:47 pmichaud that's the one that's causing your problem
11:47 tadzik pmichaud: hold on, I'll have to build the whole thing
11:48 jnthn pmichaud: Makefile
11:48 pmichaud jnthn: yes, but where in the makefile?  ;-)
11:49 jnthn pmichaud: grep for libparrot.dll
11:49 jnthn pmichaud: I think it's after the stage 1 is built
11:50 pmichaud jnthn: it's added there specially by Configure.pl :-(
11:50 pmichaud i.e., it's not a natural part of the makefile
11:50 pmichaud hmmm.
11:50 frettled 555 seconds?
11:51 jnthn pmichaud: That sounds familiar.
11:51 pmichaud is it just the parrot dll?
11:51 jnthn yes
11:51 jnthn Well, that's all we copy in master.
11:52 patrickas Yes copying that single file made it work here
11:52 jnthn You could perl -e "if $O =~ /Win32/ ..."
11:52 tadzik pmichaud: still failing
11:52 masak this isn't related to R*, so no need to panic. also, it might be known already. I'm getting this, and have been for the past day or so, when building Rakudo: http://gist.github.com/497917
11:53 pmichaud tadzik: I don't think I'm likely to get DESTDIR fixed in the next few minutes.
11:53 pmichaud tadzik: it's going to take a lot of work to fix that.  We'll get it in the next star release.
11:54 cosimo pmichaud: i got a mail from use perl about your new post, but the post is not available 'Sorry, the requested journal entries were not found.' is that known?
11:54 tadzik pmichaud: oh, ok. there are some errors but ignored, and the tree gets installed. Should it look like this: http://nopaste.snit.ch/22417 ?
11:54 pmichaud cosimo: use.perl jumped the gun on me.
11:54 pmichaud tadzik: that's missing quite a few files.
11:55 pmichaud (like, all of the modules)
11:55 pmichaud did you just do rakudo-install, or modules-install, or install?
11:55 tadzik install
11:55 pmichaud yeah
11:55 pmichaud I think DESTDIR will need some more work.
11:55 * patrickas afk
11:55 tadzik hmm
11:55 pmichaud we can likely fix it with a patch for packagers.
11:56 tadzik pmichaud: http://nopaste.snit.ch/22418 maybe another ignored errors in Makefile would fix it?
11:56 pmichaud tadzik: no, that won't be sufficient
11:56 pmichaud the module install doesn't seem to be honoring DETDIR
11:56 pmichaud DESTDIR
11:57 tadzik damn. What can we do about it?
11:57 pmichaud I already said what we can do about it.
11:57 tadzik sigh
11:58 pmichaud I can't see it as being big enough to hold the release for long.
11:58 masak +1
11:59 pmichaud Release hold at T-1
11:59 frettled +1.1
12:00 frettled tadzik: 22418 seems to be a missing test for whether cp() actually copied something, should be easy to fix, but then again, it's correct behaviour to barf when you don't get to install the file.
12:00 molecules joined #perl6
12:01 frettled tadzik: oh, wait, I misread the paste.
12:01 tadzik frettled: well, I just hope the rest of the distros will be able to package the first Perl 6 Distribution
12:01 frettled tadzik: path error
12:02 ouin (are we there yet?)
12:03 masak rakudo: say sprintf "%d min, %d s remaining", $_ div 60 - 20, $_ % 60 given DateTime.new("2010-07-29T12:00:00Z").posix - time
12:03 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«-3 min, 10 s remaining␤»
12:03 pmichaud I'm working on the windows bug a moment
12:03 masak pmichaud++
12:03 pmichaud that one is worth fixing
12:03 Su-Shee I tweeted it already. ;)
12:04 frettled «it»?
12:04 frettled That's a short tweet! ;)
12:04 pmichaud all of the windows folks had been telling me it was working, so this caught me by surprise a bit
12:04 frettled masak: how nice that it works ;)
12:05 jnthn pmichaud: It was for me... :S
12:05 Su-Shee frettled: "make your camel a butterfly! - Rakudo Star (Perl 6) released plus download url ;)
12:07 * masak waits eagerly
12:07 pmichaud I'm holding on a download+build
12:08 Su-Shee masak: for what? the masses flocking the channel? (I already ask #perl to redirect the folks here..)
12:08 Su-Shee asked.
12:08 * moritz_ is so glad he's not the release manager :-)
12:08 alexm it'd seem that facebook got impressed with my recent identi.ca posts about Perl 6 http://www.facebook.com/pages/Perl-6/142666805745620
12:08 alexm they created that page automatically
12:09 Su-Shee moritz_: "Für Nutzerfragen jeder Art steht allen Lesern Moritz Lenz zur Verfügung.." ;)
12:09 moritz_ .oO( ... )
12:09 foodoo Facebook is evil
12:10 Su-Shee good point I could use my facebook account once..
12:10 masak Su-Shee++
12:11 colomon alexm: I just "arrr'd" it.
12:11 frettled alexm++ — good publicity
12:11 jferrero alexm, two more pages: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Perl-6/122481354428937 and http://www.facebook.com/pages/Perl-6/109854789044179
12:12 brian_ http://github.com/downloads/rakudo/star/rakudo-star-2010.07.tar.gz
12:12 Su-Shee done.
12:12 brian_ woot!
12:12 Su-Shee anyone with a hackernews account?
12:12 * moritz_ - but not sure if I remember the password :-)
12:13 masak synth: I have one.
12:13 masak argh.
12:13 masak Su-Shee: I have one.
12:13 Su-Shee masak: so go posting. :)
12:13 pmichaud careful,folks -- we may have a replacement tarball in a few minutes
12:13 tadzik http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/cv1ld/its_july_29_we_were_promised_that_rakudo_star/
12:13 masak I'll hold for a while.
12:13 Su-Shee *hehe*
12:13 tadzik troll neutralized
12:14 masak man, I dislike that HIB0U.
12:14 alexm woot!
12:14 tadzik masak: I know what you mean. I think he alredy downvoted my from his frustration :>
12:15 masak tadzik: I upvoted you :)
12:15 * moritz_ too
12:15 umphy joined #perl6
12:15 jferrero alexm, http://www.facebook.com/pages/Perl-6/122481354428937 is the most complete, with forum and gallery.
12:15 tadzik what is he at? It's 14:11 July 29 here
12:16 tadzik IIRC there can't be
12:16 tadzik .. can't be July 29 everywhere at the same time
12:16 * moritz_ waits for pmichaud++ tweeting the release before spreading the news himself
12:16 Su-Shee mine works, is installed in /usr/local and says "hello" on the repl.
12:16 pmichaud I'm estimating 4 minutes.
12:16 pmichaud but could be 14.
12:17 moritz_ underpromise, overdeliver
12:17 Guest19034 Delayed  __again__ ;-)
12:17 pmichaud you'll see the tweet announcement here when it's ready :)
12:17 moritz_ that's why I replied with "less than an hour"
12:17 snarkyboojum tadzik: most of his posts on reddit pretty much involve complaining about something
12:17 tadzik snarkyboojum: yeah, mostly about Perl
12:18 pmichaud I don't get the impression it's just "complaining"
12:18 tadzik I sometimes feel like some Pythonists are taught how to hate Perl just after learning data types and control flow structures
12:18 masak meanwhile, Su-Shee is being re-tweeted by Ovid and bacek...
12:18 pmichaud his posts seem more actively hateful than just complaints
12:18 Su-Shee sorry. I was already finished even installing the tarball...
12:18 pmichaud Su-Shee: I think you tweeted before I had upload the tarball, though :)
12:19 pmichaud maybe not.
12:19 colomon rakudo: sub infix:<d>($a, $b) { my @a = (1...$b).pick($a); say :@a.perl; [+] @a; } say 4d6
12:19 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "sub infix:"␤»
12:19 pmichaud I'm guessing repeated hits on the reload key ... :-)
12:19 colomon rakudo: sub infix:<d>($a, $b) { my @a = (1...$b).pick($a); say :@a.perl; [+] @a; }; say 4d6
12:19 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say 4d6"␤»
12:19 nomad1 joined #perl6
12:19 Su-Shee pmichaud: no, I really checked before I pressed "tweet" :)
12:19 masak rakudo: sub infix:<d>($a, $b) { my @a = (1...$b).pick($a); say :@a.perl; [+] @a; }; say 4 d 6
12:19 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«"a" => [2, 6, 1, 4]␤13␤»
12:20 pmichaud Su-Shee: it's okay, I blame Microsoft.
12:20 colomon masak++
12:20 Su-Shee :))
12:20 cognominal so Rakudo * is officially released?
12:20 frettled colomon: ooh, that's a neat way of rolling dice
12:21 masak cognominal: no.
12:21 masak cognominal: we're on "magical pm time units" now.
12:22 zulon joined #perl6
12:22 nomad1 left #perl6
12:22 nomad1 joined #perl6
12:22 pmichaud http://rakudo.org/node/75
12:22 cognominal Apparently, some people here have jumped the gun.
12:22 Guest19034 Infinite time object?
12:22 moritz_ pmichaud: should I perlmonks it?
12:22 pmichaud hugme: tweet rakudoperl Rakudo Star (a useful, usable, "early adopter" distribution of Perl 6) now released: http://rakudo.org/node/75
12:22 * hugme hugs pmichaud; tweet delivered
12:23 jnthn \o/
12:23 moritz_ pmichaud: you forgot #perl6, #rakudo
12:23 moritz_ in the tweet :-)
12:23 frettled pmichaudˆˆ
12:23 pmichaud moritz_: again, yes.
12:23 snarkyboojum w00t!
12:23 pmichaud I'll fix.
12:23 jnthn pmichaud++
12:23 darkop yaaaay!
12:23 colomon \o/
12:24 masak \o/
12:24 jnthn There will be a Win32 installer for this available in about 3 hours.
12:24 jnthn (when I get home from $dayjob-meeting)
12:25 avar submitted to hn: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1557329
12:25 masak avar++
12:25 masak who will submit to Slashdot?
12:26 moritz_ masak: you do it :-)
12:26 masak ok.
12:27 avar reddit too: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/cv1ph/rakudo_star_a_useful_usable_early_adopter/
12:27 jt_ none for M$ windows?
12:27 jferrero »ö« sweet day .... :)
12:28 * jt_ oops hides, wait for 3 hours
12:28 moritz_ http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=851923 ... and perlmonks
12:28 * daxim 's monitoring http://www.heise.de/newsticker/
12:28 pmichaud http://use.perl.org/~pmichaud/journal/40469
12:28 masak moritz_++
12:28 colomon masak: omgitsfullofbutterflies !
12:29 cognominal kudos to pmichaud, jnthn and everyone who made that to  happen.
12:29 masak :)
12:29 mathw It's out? YAY!!!
12:29 moritz_ indeed. everyone++
12:29 moritz_ and especially pmichaud++
12:29 masak hugme: hug everyone
12:29 * hugme hugs everyone
12:29 BinGOs Can we expect Duke Nukem Forever next?
12:29 masak hugme: hug pmichaud
12:29 * hugme hugs pmichaud and blushes
12:29 moritz_ BinGOs: no, development on DNF has stalle
12:29 masak BinGOs: d
12:29 tadzik BinGOs: not until GNU Hurd is oficially out
12:29 BinGOs heh
12:30 pmichaud erm, I've forgotten the password for the @rakudoperl account on twitter to be able to fix my tweet.  oh well, we'll let it goes as is.
12:30 baest jt_: < jnthn> There will be a Win32 installer for this available in about 3 hours.
12:30 pmichaud I'll fix it in my tweet :-)
12:30 masak ok, Twitter is going wild.
12:30 masak I can't keep up scrolling.
12:30 BinGOs "HURD is an experimental project set to prove that one can in fact work on a software for thirty years with changing teams and still produce nothing usable."
12:30 BinGOs (sic)
12:30 BinGOs a quote I saw this morning.
12:31 cognominal if I had been more attentive, I would have added to the announce that more and more of Perl 6 is written in Perl 6, which is a good sign.
12:31 masak there should be a unit for the stuff that's used up when crying wolf. we just used up a couple of tens of %s :)
12:31 * mathw hugs everyone
12:32 Su-Shee and mailed it to all collegues....
12:32 ouin i made 30 minutes of unexplained countdown in $work irc, including lots of camelia flapping around ...
12:32 smash_ joined #perl6
12:32 smash_ hello everyone
12:33 masak ouin++
12:33 masak smash_! \o/
12:33 smash_ pmichaud++,everyone++ # rakudo star
12:33 Su-Shee ouin: oh god.. ;)
12:34 mathw I like this one from last night
12:34 mathw http://twitter.com/freekey/status/19752653473
12:34 timbunce avar: I didn't see one on reddit so I added one myself. Then I saw yours (identical) but looking at http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/new/?sort=new I only see mine. Maybe they merged them. Ho hum.
12:34 Su-Shee luckily, installation fits perfectly into one tweet ;)
12:34 mathw Su-Shee: I saw that, very neat
12:35 frettled I didn't mention flapping cameliae, but I did announce it in another IRC channel, share the release announcement in Google Reader, and publish my first blog post in months.  At least a handful of people are bound to notice!
12:35 mathw I just told a bunch of supremely uninterested people
12:35 mathw What a waste of electrons
12:35 Su-Shee mathw: well you forfilled your duty.. :)
12:35 avar timbunce: no, mine is still there: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/cv1ph/rakudo_star_a_useful_usable_early_adopter/
12:36 mathw Su-Shee: true
12:36 mathw told some people at work too
12:36 mathw but I don't think I'll make a global announcement
12:36 mathw they're unlikely to care
12:36 avar timbunce: you submitted to /perl, I to /programming
12:36 mathw I'll just bounce it around my online social life
12:36 envi^home joined #perl6
12:36 timbunce avar: ah, ok.
12:37 frettled .oO( LinkedIn! )
12:37 Su-Shee mathw: well we are a perl company.. ;)
12:38 mathw lucky you
12:38 mathw we're a Java company which was forced to use C++ as well
12:38 mathw fortunately they eventually hired some C++ people
12:38 mathw like me
12:39 * mathw is waiting to hear the FUD about Rakudo Star appear
12:39 frettled There, added a post to the LinkedIn Perl group.
12:39 timbunce This shows both reddit announcements: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/duplicates/cv1ph/rakudo_star_a_useful_usable_early_adopter/ feel free to up vote them :)
12:40 daxim I went to vienna.js yesterday to tell them about today's release, but it wasn't quite the right audience
12:40 frettled Orkut, hmm, does anyone use that anymore?
12:40 pmichaud I can't see the comments to http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/cv1ld/its_july_29_we_were_promised_that_rakudo_star/  for some reason.  :-|
12:40 mathw :( someone downvoted it
12:40 mathw frettled: yes, it's very popular in Brazil
12:40 Su-Shee moritz_: it's on heise now.
12:40 masak I'm torn as to what to title the Slashdot submission.
12:40 pmichaud too bad.  I was going to write a note.
12:40 tadzik mathw: haybe this HIUOBO, or what's his nick anyway
12:40 moritz_ Su-Shee++
12:41 timbunce It's interesting that http://www.google.com/trends?q=perl6 doesn't show interest from USA (and only San Francisco gets a mention as a city)
12:41 masak I want something between "Perl 6 released!!!" and "Rakudo Star - a useful, usable, "early adopter" distribution of Perl 6"
12:41 Su-Shee moritz_: well it's on the same page with a GNU hurd article.. ;)
12:41 moritz_ Su-Shee: where?
12:41 Su-Shee moritz_: "heise open"
12:41 sahadev joined #perl6
12:41 moritz_ ah
12:41 mathw masak: I'd go for the latter
12:41 mathw masak: you have to be careful on Slashdot
12:41 moritz_ http://www.heise.de/open/artikel/Perl-6-Ja-ist-denn-schon-Weihnachten-1047299.html
12:41 masak ok.
12:41 moritz_ for the record
12:41 Guest19034 72 downloads
12:41 mathw because they will not read it
12:42 mathw they will just dive in and start commenting based on the headline
12:42 masak mathw: limit seems to be 40 chars :/
12:42 moritz_ much like reddit :-)
12:42 Guest19034 Oops - 75 now
12:42 cognominal timbunce, in Google trends, I note that Paris does better than the bloody londoners.
12:42 azert0x joined #perl6
12:42 masak 'Rakudo Star - "early adopter" Perl 6, released' ?
12:42 dolmen_ timbunce: more interesting: http://www.google.com/trends?q="perl+6"
12:43 Su-Shee masak: good. nice, short, says everything.
12:43 masak \o/
12:43 avar Does rakudo actually require libreadline5-dev like the install file says, or is libreadline6-dev also OK?
12:43 moritz_ masak++
12:43 pmichaud avar: libreadlin6-dev might work.  Let me know so I can update the install instructions if it works :)
12:43 snarkyboojum someone going to get it on perlbuzz?
12:44 * avar tries
12:44 pmichaud I'm sure alester++ will get it there relatively soon
12:45 dolmen_ cognominal: we are two parisians here just now. How many londoners?
12:46 snarkyboojum awsome
12:46 frettled Has anyone alerted El Reg (www.theregister.co.uk)?
12:46 Su-Shee can't we have the github bot post the download count every hour? :)
12:47 molecules Congratulations on releasing Rakudo Star! pmichaud++,rakudo_star_team++
12:47 mathw I'm sure El Reg can misreport the release quite happily by themselves
12:47 BinGOs heh
12:47 Su-Shee mathw: and yet plenty of people read it and will try it anyway. ;)
12:48 timbunce dolmen_: I used to be a londoner, does that count ;)
12:48 mathw Su-Shee: true, true
12:48 mathw http://twitter.com/octoberequus/status/19822760081 <- awesome tweet!
12:49 daxim avar, pmichaud, I have readline-devel-6.1, not v5 and it builds fine
12:49 moritz_ lol
12:49 pmichaud daxim: excellent
12:49 moritz_ daxim: and does the arrow-up key work for you on the REPL?
12:49 pmichaud I'll update the relevant docs
12:49 mathw apparently Rakudo is now condensationware
12:50 Su-Shee it's what?
12:50 masak submission's away -- http://slashdot.org/submission/1294860/Rakudo-Star---early-adopter-Perl-6-released
12:50 masak don't know if you can view that URL.
12:50 Guest19034 Not vapourware anymore
12:50 Su-Shee ah :)
12:50 masak Guest19034: man, it's been "not vapourware anymore" since 2005!
12:51 mathw masak: yes, we know that, but it's nice to see other people know that
12:51 masak indeed.
12:51 Guest19034 masak: Just trying to interpret here!!
12:51 masak :)
12:51 masak I also alluded to the vapour in the /. submission.
12:52 pmichaud Su-Shee: where's your tweet ... haven't seen it yet
12:52 avar having a "make install" target and and install/ dir does naughty things to bash completion:)
12:52 pmichaud (need to add you to my following list)
12:52 masak pmichaud: @sheeshee
12:52 Su-Shee http://twitter.com/sheeshee
12:52 Su-Shee someone had already taken su-shee and sushee...
12:53 masak people with Slashdot accounts, feel free to + http://slashdot.org/submission/1294860/Rakudo-Star---early-adopter-Perl-6-released :)
12:53 daxim moritz_, yes the key works, and the usual readline stuff
12:53 moritz_ daxim: great
12:53 Su-Shee he forgot #butterflies ;)
12:53 pmichaud masak++
12:54 pmichaud awesome slashdot post
12:54 bphillips joined #perl6
12:54 [Coke] (backscroll) speaking of parrot packages, it'd be great if someone took up the macports packaging of parrot. ;)
12:55 da joined #perl6
12:55 ouin left #perl6
12:55 snarkyboojum masak++ # have up voted the slashdot post :)
12:55 masak \o/
12:55 Su-Shee well well and the downloads are counting..
12:55 dolmen_ cognominal: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakudo
12:57 mathw nice slashdot post
12:57 mathw I'm trying to remember my slashdot login so I can upvote
12:57 dolmen_ masak++  # Slashdot submission
12:57 [Coke] (lolcat for cover of book) I can proffer a picture of my 3 legged cat. "Perl6 ate my paw!"
12:58 cognominal dolmen_, we have a lot of work to update francophone  wikipedia Perl 6 entry
12:58 jnthn [Coke]: Pawesome!
12:58 masak jnthn++ # :)
12:59 dolmen_ masak: voted!
12:59 darkop shomodj++
12:59 shomodj \o/
12:59 darkop all++ (great job, great release, great book to read :)
13:00 szbalint masak++ # upvoted /. post too
13:00 masak \o/
13:00 masak let's make the Slashdot front page!
13:01 * mathw upvoted slashdot
13:01 frettled masak: wow, you have a 7-digit user ID?  I thought they were on 6 digits :)
13:01 masak I realized I didn't have an account.
13:02 masak so I needed to create one.
13:02 bphillips direct link to slashdot article?
13:02 masak http://slashdot.org/submission/1294860/Rakudo-Star---early-adopter-Perl-6-released
13:02 PerlJam happy christmas everybody!
13:02 mathw I wouldn't call it Christmas yet
13:02 masak it's not... oh heck, Merry Christmas!
13:03 masak it isn't, technically.
13:03 darkop PerlJam: I was whistling JingleBells the whole morning, now I know why
13:03 masak we need macros, and Pod, and speed, and stability...
13:03 masak Christmas will be a gradual thing.
13:03 snarkyboojum Happy Starry Night
13:03 * mathw sings "Christmas is interesting / Like a stick in your eye / It's so freakin' interesting / That it might make you cry"
13:03 darkop everyday is christmas now that we have perl6
13:04 mathw It may not be Christmas, but there are decorations in the shops :)
13:04 brian_ should the REPL work out of the box by running ./perl6?
13:04 daxim yes
13:04 PerlJam masak: it's a really long, slow christmas :)
13:04 dolmen_ masak: I added some tags to your /. post
13:06 masak dolmen_: thanks.
13:07 masak "Perl 6 IS OUT THERE !!!" -- ruoso++
13:07 masak "#Rakudo * is out and is stable as a rock. Moves as a rock too, but hey." -- erez++
13:08 kokajxo (I wrote http://www.siteduzero.com/news-62-37174-p1-rakudo-star-le-langage-perl-6-arrive.html )
13:08 frettled kokajxo++
13:08 umphy thanks guys for all your hard work. much appreciated. good night from Melbourne Aus :)
13:08 masak umphy: g'♞ :)
13:09 moritz_ kokajxo: wow. My French is pretty bad, but I can see the amount of work that went into that post nonetheless
13:09 moritz_ kokajxo++
13:09 kokajxo my English is awful, but I would like to thank you all for Rakudo
13:09 frettled masak: are all melbournians good horseys?
13:10 brian_ gah, I haven't got libreadline6-dev installed
13:10 kokajxo I don't use Perl, rather Python or OCaml, but Perl 6 just looks awesome
13:10 pmichaud "Rakudo Etoile"  sounds nice too.  :-)
13:10 masak kokajxo: pro via uzantnomo, mi suspektas ke vi pli bone regas la Internacian Lingvon :P
13:10 PerlJam kokajxo++ wow.
13:10 moritz_ brian_: rakudo will compile without it, you just won't have history in the interactive environment
13:10 azawawi joined #perl6
13:10 jferrero Happy Christmas, and good Rakudo new year
13:11 patrickas whoa kokajxo++ indeed!
13:11 kokajxo masak: ja, sed mi ankaux parlas gxin malbone :p
13:11 avar pmichaud: the readline-6 lib also works for me
13:11 pmichaud kokajxo: that article is marvelous.
13:11 pmichaud avar++
13:11 PerlJam kokajxo: btw, you know we're going to quote you about "Perl 6 just looks awesome", right?  ;)
13:11 pmichaud kokajxo: you hit exactly the right tone.
13:11 masak kokajxo: mi almenaŭ komprenas vin :)
13:11 pmichaud (except we're not necessarily the "successor" to Perl 5 :)
13:12 alexm pmichaud: confirmed that readline6 works also, still failing Unicode from the terminal though
13:12 kokajxo PerlJam: is that wrong :-° ?
13:12 PerlJam kokajxo: no way!
13:12 pmichaud alexm: yes, I played with that last night, and it appears to be some Parrot weirdness.
13:12 pmichaud I'll submit it as a parrot bug.
13:13 pmichaud it's weird, too, because...
13:13 avar bug: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/47280
13:13 masak guests &
13:13 azawawi Found the bug that prevented blizkost from running on strawberry 5.10... patching... :)
13:13 dolmen_ kokajxo++ # Merci ! Excellent article !
13:13 avar i.e. it shouldn't proceed past the -Dusethreads..
13:13 mathw azawawi++
13:13 alexm avar: did you install libperl-dev?
13:13 pmichaud pmichaud@plum:~/rakudo$ ./perl6
13:13 pmichaud > say "«".chars
13:13 pmichaud 2
13:13 pmichaud > say (prompt ': ').chars
13:13 pmichaud : «
13:13 pmichaud 1
13:14 [Coke] updated wikipedia's Rakudo entry a bit.
13:14 pmichaud i.e., reading from standard input works properly, but reading through the interactive readline gets it wrong
13:14 avar alexm: yeah, I just have a perl without -Dusethreads, rebuilding
13:14 pmichaud (correct answer is 1, of course)
13:15 mathw pmichaud: interesting
13:15 alexm avar: blizkost-install worked fine for me in ubuntu with libperl-dev
13:15 mathw pmichaud: something wrong with the use of readline maybe?
13:15 avar yeah, rebuilding with the ubuntu perl, I was using a perlbrew perl
13:15 pmichaud mathw: I'm thinking that parrot's readline code doesn't consider utf8 as a possibility
13:15 mathw pmichaud: sounds very plausible
13:15 frettled > say "•".chars
13:15 frettled 3
13:15 mathw !
13:16 cognominal kokajxo++  # when do you create Nantes.pm ?
13:16 frettled pmichaud: it definitely seems like a basic assumption about 8-bit chars, yes
13:16 avar and nobody ran into this with all the crazy utf8 operators?:)
13:16 pmichaud how many crazy utf8 operators are there?  ;-)
13:16 frettled avar: most of the testing is done with program files, not line-interactive, I suppose
13:16 frettled rakudo: say "•".chars
13:17 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
13:17 moritz_ avar: it's a known bug, and afair in RT
13:17 frettled avar: ^^^
13:17 avar ah
13:18 pmichaud http://twitter.com/fs111/status/19823910405   # nice
13:18 dolmen_ kokajxo: it would be worth linking it on linuxfr.org
13:19 mathw pmichaud: hah
13:19 mathw pmichaud: although Duke Nukem Forever wsas cancelled in the end
13:20 kokajxo dolmen_: do it then :p
13:20 dolmen_ kokajxo: I don't have my account available right now
13:21 * alexm gotta go preparing this afternoon's R* presentation for Barcelona.pm
13:21 xinming joined #perl6
13:21 alexm see you #perl6
13:21 alexm left #perl6
13:22 azawawi strawberry 5.10 blizkost fix http://github.com/azawawi/blizkost/commit/9cb494db400d4e5189d0d6de842d6dd319902cce
13:22 kokajxo dolmen_: ok, what should I do ?
13:22 dwhipp joined #perl6
13:23 dolmen_ kokajxo: http://linuxfr.org/submit.html
13:24 Su-Shee frettled: how does this little dot count as three chars.. ;)
13:24 PerlJam gabszab++ for such good timing on the Perl 6 screencasts  :)
13:26 azawawi PerlJam: szabgab++ :)
13:26 PerlJam yeah that
13:26 itz thanks for it!
13:26 PerlJam wonder why my brain flipped it.
13:26 avar who maintains the rakudo smolder infrastructure?
13:27 PerlJam probably because I was thinking (Gabor Szabo)++
13:27 frettled Su-Shee: small dot, huge ego?
13:27 moritz_ avar: iirc mj41 has control of the server
13:28 Su-Shee frettled: *hehe* :)
13:29 zulon joined #perl6
13:29 cognominal http://digg.com/d31YO92
13:30 azawawi parrot seems to have a problem with strawberry 5.12.x. "loadlib" opcode fails so blizkost will only run on 5.10.x win32 atm :(
13:30 masak oh! forgot about digg! cognominal++
13:31 frettled cognominal++, dugg.
13:31 pmichaud frettled:  that dot has three times as much character as any ascii symbol :-)
13:31 frettled Do we have a page or something where we keep track of places to publish news like this?
13:32 frettled pmichaud: ho-ho :D
13:32 vboele joined #perl6
13:33 frettled pmichaud: perhaps it's a triple-quantum dot
13:33 xinming_ joined #perl6
13:33 pmichaud frettled: it's definitely not a singularity :)
13:34 avar frettled: http://gist.github.com/498136
13:34 dolmen_ kokajxo: posted your article to my del.icio.us network (mostly Perl guys) http://delicious.com/url/737f03d52d8728bda0cd06b547a42f88
13:34 kokajxo thanks :)
13:34 masak @pfig doesn't like "usable". http://twitter.com/pfig/status/19824600688
13:34 plobsing joined #perl6
13:35 moritz_ masak: maybe ask him which part hes doesn't find usable
13:35 [particle] pmichaud: i can't modify the R* announcement at rakudo.org, but i wanted to generate a more exciting url than http://rakudo.org/node/75, perhaps announce/rakudo-star/2010-07 ?
13:35 masak moritz_: :)
13:35 masak moritz_: actually, I just replied this: http://twitter.com/carlmasak/status/19826085112
13:36 avar [particle]: not without a redirect..
13:36 Su-Shee moritz_: heise is going to put it into the newsticker.
13:36 moritz_ Su-Shee: \o/
13:36 pmichaud [particle]: looking
13:36 masak moritz_: I think his complaint isn't that "usable" is a lie, but that it's perhaps a bit weak, as descriptions go.
13:36 avar Are there any other social media submissions: http://gist.github.com/498136 ?
13:36 [particle] it's drupal, we should be able to coax it to do that
13:37 moritz_ avar: I stand corrected, it was jdv79++ how submitted the smolder patches for rakudo (and likely controls the infrastructure)
13:37 Su-Shee moritz_: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Rakudo-Star-Perl-6-ist-da-1047670.html
13:37 moritz_ avar: perlmonks (not strictly social media, but good for perl news anyway)
13:37 masak & again
13:38 PerlJam avar: perlbuzz (echochamber, yes but still)
13:38 frettled avar: added a few more as a comment
13:38 pmichaud avar: you could put it on the rakudo wiki or the star wiki
13:38 frettled Of course, I failed on reloading.
13:39 crazed joined #perl6
13:39 crazed happy perl6 release day!
13:39 crazed well rakudo star
13:39 avar frettled: do you have more specific links ?:)
13:39 avar frettled: It's linking to stuff that's already submitted, not just the sites themselves
13:40 frettled avar: ah, I was thinking of a list of sites to submit _to_ for the next round of news.
13:40 pmichaud [particle]: http://rakudo.org/announce/rakudo-star/2010.07   now works
13:40 crazed http://rakudo.org/node/75
13:40 [particle] pmichaud++ # would you give me rights to do that?
13:41 crazed i got linked there
13:41 * sjn has spammed all the Perl channels in Norway (that I know of) with the annoucement o/
13:41 crazed which is less pretty of a url
13:41 PerlJam Su-Shee: you're right ... google translate sucks.  :)
13:41 Su-Shee PerlJam: I'm sorry :)
13:42 perigrin sjn: so you know 'pvv.org' didn't work ... 'www.pvv.org' did ... for whatever reason
13:43 PerlJam but "Perl 6 ist da" sounds like the beginning of a song though  ;)
13:43 pmichaud [particle]: rakudo.org's drupal has been spammed heavily with user registrations ... so finding  your account is a bit tricky
13:43 Su-Shee moritz_: hey, the first comment says "endlich" and "*freu*" :)
13:43 coutume1 joined #perl6
13:43 [particle] i just logged in with openid
13:43 PerlJam (perhaps a nursery rhyme ;)
13:43 [particle] let me give you a url
13:43 moritz_ Su-Shee: \o/
13:43 Su-Shee PerlJam: it is kind-of.
13:43 [particle] http://rakudo.org/user/9
13:43 sjn perigrin: isn't there a redirect?
13:43 perigrin sjn: not that google chrome liked
13:43 Su-Shee moritz_: the bashing will surely start soon. ;)
13:43 perigrin I got a "cannot find" page with pvv.org
13:44 pmichaud [particle]: you now have admin access
13:44 avar moritz_: ah, found 2c40a5bc9ffe585e84516f252adba4a5565e0175
13:44 [particle] pmichaud++ # thanks!
13:44 frettled avar: updated the comment now with links to stuff that's out there.  My submissions are in fora that require login, though, and are labeled as such.
13:45 perigrin sjn: http://skitch.com/perigrin/dqsuq/fullscreen # screen shot from chrome
13:45 sjn perigrin: gah
13:45 * perigrin shrugs
13:45 perigrin it doesn't really matter, I found htem :)
13:46 perigrin but I thought you should know
13:46 PerlJam So ... I was thinking of adding Gabor's screencasts to perl6.org under Community.  Specifically linking to http://szabgab.com/perl6.html  Any comments?  Is there a better link?
13:46 pmichaud time for a nap here -- bbl
13:47 pmichaud PerlJam: +1
13:47 PerlJam pmichaud: that link is not just about the screencasts, but it's the only place I've found that lists them all.
13:47 sjn perigrin: I'm looking into it now :)
13:47 perigrin sjn++
13:48 moritz_ PerlJam: +1
13:49 moritz_ PerlJam: if you want to link to the screencasts, there's an anchor on that page
13:49 moritz_ http://szabgab.com/perl6.html#screencasts or so
13:49 darkop a little easter egg on our site: http://www.oglasnik.hr/R*
13:49 Su-Shee moritz_: and lichtkind obviously wrote for heise developer.. :)) http://www.heise.de/developer/artikel/Rakudo-Zwischenschritt-auf-dem-Weg-zu-Perl-6-1015657.html
13:50 lichtkind Su-Shee: that topic wasnt my idea :)
13:50 * PerlJam patiently waits for the other shoe to drop after all of this publicity  ;)
13:50 moritz_ And I wrote http://www.perl-community.de/bat/blog/theme/8
13:50 jferrero http://www.meneame.net/story/rakudo-star-alias-perl-6-salio-hoy-dia-29-julio
13:51 * PerlJam concludes that Rakudo is a big hit in germany
13:51 PerlJam :-)
13:51 lrnperl6 joined #perl6
13:51 Su-Shee lichtkind: let me put it this way: more full blown support and marketing for a _programming language release_ isn't possible within the german realm.
13:51 lichtkind :)
13:52 Su-Shee PerlJam: heise is quite immune against hypes, they don't publish ruby fanboy article. also, they're pragmatics. and about our age and therefore grown up with perl. ;)
13:52 dolmen_ avar: French http://delicious.com/url/737f03d52d8728bda0cd06b547a42f88
13:54 cono rakudo: say 1 ~| 2
13:54 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«3␤»
13:54 cono rakudo: say 7 ~| 13
13:54 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«73␤»
13:55 rhebus_ joined #perl6
13:56 patspam joined #perl6
13:56 Su-Shee ah. and here we go... "why perl if you can have python" man I hope I don't have to answer comments. ;)
13:56 willtestit joined #perl6
13:57 LaVolta joined #perl6
13:57 szabgab Congratulations and thank you for the release of Rakudo *
13:57 szabgab PerlJam: Later today I can create a separate page for just the screencasts if you think it is better
13:57 moritz_ Su-Shee: "why python if you can have perl?" :-)
13:58 moritz_ szabgab: don't think it's necessary
13:58 szabgab and I'll leave a section with the id and alink to that page
13:58 HarryS joined #perl6
13:58 Su-Shee moritz_: that was to be expected.. ;)
13:59 szabgab moritz_: I'll do that at one point ayway but I don't have that computer  with me now :)
13:59 PerlJam szabgab: no worries.  It's fine the way it is :)
14:00 szabgab ok, then I leave it that way for now
14:00 szabgab just add a few more screencasts in the next few days, I hope
14:00 PerlJam szabgab++
14:01 LaVolta just passing by to say thanks, thank all you folks! for rakudo star! :)
14:01 moritz_ :-)
14:01 bbkr std: sub d--b{}
14:01 p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Malformed block at /tmp/8zbnADKe9L line 1:␤------> [32msub d[33m⏏[31m--b{}[0m␤    expecting any of:␤        new name to be defined␤   routine_def␤      trait␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
14:01 PerlJam moritz_: how can I can view the page locally with all of the styling and everything?  I want to make sure I don't screw up the layout accidentally.
14:01 bbkr std: sub d-_-b{}
14:01 p6eval std 31857: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 114m␤»
14:02 avar why doesn't the blizkost-install target depend on the install target?
14:02 moritz_ PerlJam: don't bother, just go ahead :-)
14:02 kjeldahl joined #perl6
14:02 tadzik Su-Shee: they always come
14:02 PerlJam moritz_: wfm  :)
14:02 perimosocordiae joined #perl6
14:02 frettled 188 nicks.  Nice.
14:03 Su-Shee tadzik: I usally strictly avoid reading comments. :)
14:03 pugssvn r31858 | duff++ | Add link to screencasts
14:05 Su-Shee they went from python to "real programming languages" to "all stolen from PHP" (wtf?) to ruby.. ;)
14:05 xiaolongxia joined #perl6
14:05 tadzik Su-Shee: I always thought Ruby's used by people who couldn't wait for Perl 6 ;)
14:05 macroron joined #perl6
14:07 Su-Shee uhm, did noone blog it on blogs.perl.org? :)
14:08 tadzik is the Perl 6 Book attached to Star available separately?
14:08 tadzik is it the same as github.com/perl6/book?
14:08 PerlJam tadzik: it is the same
14:09 [Coke] Su-Shee: doing a simple "see also" post there now.
14:09 LaVolta I got the "cp: illegal option -- u" problem on osx while make VERSION, is that expected?
14:09 Casan joined #perl6
14:10 * moritz_ hopes not
14:10 ruoso joined #perl6
14:10 LaVolta IMHO, might be a linux-flavoured cp(1)
14:10 frettled LaVolta: u option?  wtf?  Hmm.
14:10 PerlJam GNU cp at least
14:11 frettled Oh ye flippin' deities.
14:11 frettled That's a piece of feature bloat I didn't think I'd see in GNU cp, but I suppose it's years old, and I just haven't noticed.
14:12 PerlJam LaVolta: does osx have an option for "copy only if source is newer than destination" ?
14:12 frettled PerlJam: -n
14:13 PerlJam frettled: that's "don't overwrite an existing file"  not quite the same.
14:13 frettled PerlJam: and I guess the question should be, "does BSD have"
14:13 frettled PerlJam: it's the closest you get with cp
14:13 frettled PerlJam: for all else, there is rsync
14:13 PerlJam does osx come with rsync?
14:13 frettled yes
14:14 [Coke] Su-Shee: done.
14:14 Kodi joined #perl6
14:14 PerlJam How do Windows folks handle unixisms like cp?
14:14 Su-Shee *hehe* a friend of mine on twitter: "perl wins: perl 6 released before php 6" :)
14:14 jer1cho joined #perl6
14:14 Kodi rakudo: sub f($a is copy = 1) { my $b; ($a, $b) = (1, 2); say $a; }; f
14:14 PerlJam one of these days I'll have to try to install parrot/rakudo on a windows box
14:14 frettled PerlJam: by crying a lot
14:14 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
14:14 Kodi rakudo: sub f($a is copy = 0) { my $b; ($a, $b) = (1, 2); say $a; }; f
14:15 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1 2␤»
14:15 jer1cho hello folks
14:15 Kodi Known?
14:15 frettled PerlJam: do you know which piece of code it is that uses cp -u?
14:15 LaVolta I wonder if it's okay to ignore the -u option...
14:15 frettled It seems to me that the Right Way to handle it, is to use make…
14:15 moritz_ Kodi: don't think so
14:15 moritz_ LaVolta: it probably is
14:16 LaVolta cp -auv skel $(DISTDIR)
14:16 frettled The only consequence of dropping that option ought to be that you're copying one time too many.
14:16 frettled That doesn't seem like a biggy to me.
14:16 Kodi moritz_: Okay, I'll file a rakudobug.
14:17 njd joined #perl6
14:18 frettled Hrm, "find . -name skel" yields no result in either Rakudo or Rakudo Star.
14:19 PerlJam LaVolta: are you building r* from tarball?
14:19 snarkyboojum rakudo star download numbers have already beaten the most downloaded monthly build
14:19 moritz_ phenny: tell pmichaud that there's no tag for R* in the star repo - should be 6641ff4df7c39031c916b23e706963e599bf5a82
14:19 phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
14:19 [Coke] skel is in star's /source/ not the tarball.
14:19 frettled snarkyboojum: nice!
14:19 moritz_ PerlJam: it's in the star repo
14:19 LaVolta PerlJam:  oh...my my my...I git cloned it
14:19 PerlJam yes, it's only present in the star repo, but that's not the dist
14:19 LaVolta sorry...all my fault
14:19 moritz_ LaVolta: that way you can build a tarball that you can then install like R*
14:20 Su-Shee snarkyboojum: it only gets downloaded a couple of hundred times per month?
14:20 moritz_ 350 downloads so far
14:20 Su-Shee moritz_: 15 total morons so far.
14:20 pmurias joined #perl6
14:20 moritz_ Su-Shee: that's surprisingly low
14:21 frettled Su-Shee: how many of the morons are the same person?  :)
14:21 snarkyboojum Su-Shee: well according to the github download numbers - given that most are git cloning the working tree for the monthly releases (I'd guess)
14:22 Su-Shee *HAHA* ok, you'll get that without knowing german: the first idiot posted the usal "perl line noise" posting to support "python is better": http://www.heise.de/open/news/foren/S-Re-Weils-besser-ist/forum-183428/msg-18906184/read/ answer:
14:22 etaoin joined #perl6
14:22 Su-Shee http://www.heise.de/open/news/foren/S-Re-Weils-besser-ist/forum-183428/msg-18906234/read/ (".. write this greatly readable python code.." :)
14:22 frooh congratulations guys!
14:23 * frooh downloads star
14:23 PerlJam Su-Shee: heh
14:23 Su-Shee I need a screenshot of this.
14:23 etaoin Playing with the Rakudo * MSI on XP and going through the included book. Very cool. Great Job everyone!
14:23 tylercurtis joined #perl6
14:23 * moritz_ bows
14:24 LaVolta ..."tarball's good, git-clonin's bad" :-P
14:24 jer1cho just built rakudo from a git clone, looks good so far. the performance is poor, though.
14:24 * moritz_ nods
14:26 etaoin In the UsingPerl6-draft.pdf page 6 the same line 27 needs more {} for interpolation to work on Rakudo *
14:26 etaoin say "$n has won {%matches{$n}} matches and {%sets{$n}} sets";
14:27 PerlJam jer1cho: yes, it's slow.  That's on the list of things to work on next though.
14:27 PerlJam etaoin: what?
14:27 dolmen_ rakudo: for <a b c> { say * }
14:27 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Whatever()<0x8369780>␤Whatever()<0x8857a60>␤Whatever()<0x240f000>␤»
14:28 etaoin I am using the Rakudo * MSI and goifn through the UsingPerl6-draft, the sample code on page 6 doesn't interpolate without extra {} chars
14:28 jer1cho PerlJam: Any hints where to start helping? What do I need to know to help developing?
14:28 moritz_ rakudo: my %matches = a => 1, b => 2; my $n = 'a'; say "$n has won %matches{$n} matches"
14:28 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«a has won 1 matches␤»
14:28 moritz_ etaoin: seems to work here - see above
14:28 PerlJam etaoin: What R* MSI ?  Where did you get it?
14:28 PerlJam (I didn't know there was an MSI)
14:29 squeeky joined #perl6
14:29 etaoin a link was given earlier this morning let me find it
14:29 frettled PerlJam: I think jnthn++ was going to get one out the door within a few hours of the R* release.
14:29 patrickas I think there was one built on one of the betas
14:29 PerlJam etaoin: the only thing I can think of is that the MSI is actually installing an older version of Rakudo instead of the one that comes with Rakudo *
14:30 moritz_ uhm, that would be a quite old release
14:30 PerlJam indeed
14:30 etaoin http://www.jnthn.net/perl6/rakudo/Rakudo-Star-2010-07.msi
14:30 PerlJam well,  I think 2 months would do it.
14:30 frettled jer1cho: Do you want to help with Rakudo itself, modules, Perl 6 spectests, documentation, …?
14:31 moritz_ etaoin: could you please paste the output from  say $VM<config><revision> ?
14:31 patrickas That one was posted by jnthn++ based on beta4 I think
14:31 moritz_ sorry
14:31 tom_tsuruhara joined #perl6
14:31 moritz_ say $*VM<config><revision>
14:31 moritz_ and
14:31 moritz_ perl6 --version
14:31 [Coke] rakudo: say $*VM.perl
14:31 snarkyboojum yeah.. around beta4ish
14:31 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Cannot substr on a null string␤  in 'Pair::perl' at line 1␤  in <anon> at line 4591:CORE.setting␤  in 'Any::join' at line 1␤  in 'EnumMap::perl' at line 4591:CORE.setting␤  in 'Pair::perl' at line 4353:CORE.setting␤  in <anon> at line 4591:CORE.setting␤  in 'Any::join' at line
14:31 p6eval ..1␤  …
14:31 [particle] pmichaud: i don't see a LICENSE file in the rakudo/star repo
14:32 frettled rakudo: say $*VM<config><revision>.perl
14:32 jer1cho frettled: Well, where can I help best with my knowledge in C++, a bit of C  and perl? :)
14:32 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«"48152"␤»
14:32 [particle] i'm assuming artistic 2, like rakudo
14:32 [Coke] jer1cho: that almost sounds like a better fit for the parrot VM.
14:32 moritz_ [particle]: yes, just copy the LICENSE file from Rakudo
14:32 [particle] ah, sorry, found it in skel/
14:32 whee_ joined #perl6
14:32 etaoin C:\Rakudo>perl6 -e "say $VM<config><revision>" Symbol '$VM' not predeclared in <anonymous> in Main (src\gen_setting.pm:3343)  C:\Rakudo>perl6 -v This is Rakudo Perl 6.  Copyright 2006-2009, The Perl Foundation.  C:\Rakudo>
14:32 [Coke] (make that better, rakudo gets better.)
14:33 moritz_ etaoin: that's an old rakudo.
14:33 [Coke] etaoin: it's $*VM, not $VM.
14:33 * [particle] is writing an email to a reporter at h-online
14:33 frettled jer1cho: Just about with anything!  IMO, documentation is something that needs more serious work, and I know people want better spectests.  Both give a boost to learning, of course.
14:33 jer1cho [Coke]: I'll take a lot at parrot too :)
14:34 [Coke] cd
14:34 [Coke] ww.
14:34 moritz_ jer1cho: also most built-ins are written in Perl 6 - look through bug reports that involve built-in functions and methods, those are usually easier to fix
14:34 jer1cho frettled: Okay, thanks. :)
14:34 PerlJam jer1cho: if you're going to help with speed, knowing C and Parrot would be good :)
14:34 rhebus hmm, any chance of a .msi which works on a D:\ drive? My winxp box has no C:\ and the installer bails immediately
14:34 jer1cho moritz_: I think i'll break in there first, thanks!
14:35 frettled jer1cho: And please stick around here, we really like having people like you joining in.
14:35 LaVolta errr...another error (from tarball)..."-lpthread -lm \c i686-apple-darwin10-g++-4.2.1: c: No such file or directory"
14:36 jer1cho frettled: Of course. :)
14:37 frettled jer1cho++
14:37 LaVolta seems familiar to me...it happened once or twice when I was trying to build rakudo releases
14:38 orafu joined #perl6
14:38 PerlJam LaVolta: it pulls config information from parrot to generate the makefile.  Perhaps look through "parrot_config --dump"
14:39 [particle] ah, h-online beat me to it! great.
14:40 patspam joined #perl6
14:41 LaVolta PerlJam:  it's in LINKARGS and ICU_SHARED (makefile), when build failed, I usually remove them...
14:42 etaoin the timestamp on the file says 2am today but I will go build it on debian and play with it some more
14:42 snarkyboojum heh http://twitter.com/chwenz/status/19828498801
14:43 whee joined #perl6
14:43 dimitry joined #perl6
14:43 avar http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1557623
14:43 jdv79 i think i just killed my "could server" while building rakudo
14:44 Su-Shee snarkyboojum: cool. another one mention it. :)
14:44 jdv79 is there any way to do ipc with rakudo?
14:44 jer1cho jdv79: I dont think so... Haven't even heard about threads yet.
14:44 jdv79 system and `` and open 'date|' don't seem to work
14:45 tadzik jdv79: it's now qx//, not ``
14:45 jdv79 oops
14:45 tadzik I just noticed the 'make' sub in Advent Calendar, what is it?
14:45 jdv79 thanks
14:46 moritz_ tadzik: it sets $/.ast
14:46 moritz_ ... as explained in the book too. Read it! :-)
14:46 dimitry rakudo: say slurp "/etc/passwd"
14:46 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Operation not permitted in safe mode␤  in 'Safe::forbidden' at line 2:/tmp/4qAWUfGFtc␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/4qAWUfGFtc␤»
14:46 dimitry doesn't work :)
14:47 [Coke] moritz_++ for safe mode.
14:47 [1]Casan joined #perl6
14:47 dimitry but how to switch safe mode programmatically?
14:48 dimitry switch off i mean
14:48 etaoin left #perl6
14:48 moritz_ dimitry: you don't. That's the point :-)
14:48 PerlJam tadzik: chapter 10 of the book btw.
14:48 [Coke] dimitry: shouldn't be enabled by default on your local copy, though.
14:48 tadzik PerlJam: yeah, I'll have to read it sentence by sentence one day.
14:48 masak someone might want to reply to http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/cv1qn/announce_rakudo_star_a_useful_usable_early/c0vh9tf
14:49 * moritz_ replies
14:49 tadzik done
14:49 squeeky Would it be considered cliché of me to bang on about "Christmas in July" at this point in time?
14:49 [Coke] \o/ our first bug report post-star.
14:49 PerlJam squeeky: completely.
14:50 PerlJam squeeky: but don't let that stop you!  :)
14:50 [Coke] oh, it's kodi. =-)
14:50 Kodi [Coke]: Yep.
14:50 squeeky Where's the source to the eval bot, just out of curiosity?
14:50 moritz_ squeeky: pugs repo, misc/evalbot/
14:52 dimitry is there any docs on safe mode?
14:52 moritz_ no; it's so hacky and unsafe that I don't want to promote it in any way
14:53 squeeky moritz_: thanks. err, I was silly enough to think "hey, why not port a web prontend to the bot". I guess it's a bigger mountain than I thought.
14:53 high joined #perl6
14:53 zulon joined #perl6
14:53 dimitry rakudo: say `ps axu`
14:53 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say `ps ax"␤»
14:53 jer1cho squeeky: if you chroot it in a vm and you use the save mode, why not? ;)
14:53 moritz_ squeeky: http://github.com/moritz/try.rakudo.org
14:54 moritz_ squeeky: feel free to contribute
14:54 moritz_ squeeky: do you have github ID?
14:54 sawyer_ joined #perl6
14:54 squeeky I certainly do.
14:54 moritz_ which is... squeeky?
14:54 squeeky squeeks.
14:54 moritz_ hugme: add squeeks to try.rakudo.org
14:54 * hugme hugs squeeks. Welcome to try.rakudo.org!
14:54 moritz_ squeeky: you now have commit access to that repo
14:54 squeeky :O
14:55 avar anyone else having smolder issues: http://gist.github.com/498316 ?
14:55 avar curl -v -v -v -L  http://smolder.plusthree.com/
14:55 snarkyboojum avar: yep - I've never been able to connect to that host
14:55 avar hrm, can't submit smoke reports then
14:57 dolmen_ rakudo: :16<1F692>.chr.say
14:57 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«🚒␤»
14:58 snarkyboojum avar: I'm not sure how it's supposed to work, but I get 'Communication prohibited by filter' when I ping the host
14:59 avar yeah, not like that :)
14:59 frettled dimitry: `` won't work anyway.
14:59 [Coke] snarkyboojum: sounds like you might have a firewall in your way.
15:00 frettled rakudo: say qx/ps ax/
15:00 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Operation not permitted in safe mode␤  in 'Safe::forbidden' at line 2:/tmp/VddG306aqo␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/VddG306aqo␤»
15:00 snarkyboojum [Coke]: right - I have no idea how to go about addressing that though :)
15:00 frettled dimitry: but locally:
15:00 frettled > say qx/ps ax|head -1/; PID TTY      STAT   TIME COMMAND
15:01 snarkyboojum anyway, it's a dodgey network setting somewhere :)
15:01 baest wow the book looks great! Thumbs up
15:02 snarkyboojum and I get to 70.42.41.97, so it's somewhere on their network (I think)
15:02 skyheights joined #perl6
15:05 snarkyboojum_ joined #perl6
15:05 skyheights Congratulations #perl6++, I joined slashdot and digg to bump you up.  I look forward to taking Rakudo Star for a spin tonight!
15:06 frettled skyheights++
15:06 [Coke] AGGGGGGGGGGGGGH. how did alberto post to perl6-internals?
15:06 [Coke] isn't that list dead dead dead? =-)
15:07 colomon http://harmonyware.com/tunes/r-star.pdf
15:07 moritz_ very much so
15:08 PerlJam colomon: I can look at the notes but I don't know what they sound like  :)
15:08 davidfetter rakudo, say "Hello"
15:08 davidfetter hrm
15:08 davidfetter rakudo: say "Hello"
15:08 timdemkowsky davidfetter: do it like this
15:08 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Hello␤»
15:08 davidfetter ok
15:08 snarkyboojum colomon: :O care to sing it for us? :D
15:08 timdemkowsky got it by yourself. :)
15:09 [Coke] colomon: I'll get my son to record it on trombone. :P
15:09 colomon PerlJam: will try to record it at some point today.  but since I forgot to write it a month ahead of time like I planned, any recording made today may be a little bit rough.
15:09 [Coke] http://harmonyware.com/tunes/r-star.pdf
15:09 [Coke] ww.
15:09 PerlJam colomon++
15:09 isBEKaml joined #perl6
15:09 isBEKaml Good Starry evening, #perl6! :)
15:10 snarkyboojum isBEKaml: o/
15:10 achromic joined #perl6
15:10 [Coke] I find it odd that ovid and alberto (old school p5 people) are not reporting bugs in the requested fashion. =-)
15:10 isBEKaml snarkyboojum: Release went down well?
15:10 snarkyboojum isBEKaml: I think so!
15:11 daxim [Coke], it says DucksRevenge.abc
15:11 isBEKaml great! More Stars! \o/
15:11 _macdaddy joined #perl6
15:12 * PerlJam hangs a reproduction of "Starry Night" in for foyer
15:12 PerlJam s/for/the/
15:13 Lasse_ joined #perl6
15:13 justatheory joined #perl6
15:14 LaVolta test, rakudo: say qx/uname -a/
15:14 LaVolta rakudo: say qx/uname -a/
15:14 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Operation not permitted in safe mode␤  in 'Safe::forbidden' at line 2:/tmp/KC52tc3vX2␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/KC52tc3vX2␤»
15:14 PerlJam LaVolta: you can't use run() or qx() with the bot
15:15 colomon daxim: wait, where did the DucksRevenge.abc thing come from?  (that's my local file for storing tunes, named after the first tune in it.)
15:15 daxim it's in the window title
15:15 colomon ah, I see.  it's the title of the PS.
15:15 colomon postscript, I mean.
15:16 colomon interesting.
15:16 daxim using okular 0.10.4
15:16 colomon Preview on the Mac doesn't show me that at all.
15:16 [Coke] daxim; ?
15:16 moritz_ hey, it's only a preview :-)
15:17 [Coke] ah.
15:17 envi_home2 joined #perl6
15:17 daxim [Coke], I didn't notice you were reposting colomon
15:17 timdemkowsky Has somebody information about the implementation status of IO::Socket?
15:17 [Coke] yah, we're all caught up now. =-)
15:18 moritz_ timdemkowsky: it's good enough to run a simple HTTP server with it
15:18 pyrimidine joined #perl6
15:18 moritz_ timdemkowsky: it only does blocking IO though
15:18 moritz_ (any improvements would be welcome)
15:20 timdemkowsky moritz_: Thanks, any examples? :) Just saw the of src/core/IO/Socket.pm, looked like... nothing much. :D I need to work into the code.
15:20 envi_home3 joined #perl6
15:20 LaVolta PerlJam:  sorry my irc screen's a little out-of-time.
15:21 moritz_ timdemkowsky: http://github.com/mberends/http-server-simple
15:22 timdemkowsky moritz_: Thanks a lot!
15:23 moritz_ timdemkowsky: the author of http-server-simple, mberends, sometimes hangs out here - he also plans to work on a poll() implementation for the sockets
15:23 tadzik http://nopaste.snit.ch/22426
15:23 tadzik repl bug?
15:23 chaotos2010 joined #perl6
15:23 * patrickas is kind of confused ... where is the lynch mob and the hate fest?
15:23 moritz_ I'm sure he'd appreciate some feedback, or somebody to bounce ideas off him
15:23 timdemkowsky moritz_: Sounds interesting, but i've never worked on that, just used these mechanisms sometimes.
15:23 moritz_ patrickas: the trolls are too slow :-)
15:24 whee patrickas: they're still waiting for the interpreter to start up ;)
15:24 moritz_ timdemkowsky: never too late to start - though it's your choice of course
15:24 moritz_ patrickas: there were some trollish replies to some of the German news posts
15:24 tadzik rakudo: Hash.^methods.join("\n") # bug?
15:25 patrickas whee: in that case we should make rakudo a bit slower yet =)
15:25 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Method 'join' not found for invocant of class 'ResizablePMCArray'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/zavJIb5Ago␤»
15:25 tadzik looks like Parrot leaking through, as you say
15:25 timdemkowsky moritz_: i look around for interesting things to fix or implement. i gonna do my best!
15:25 moritz_ timdemkowsky++
15:27 dakkar rakudo: 12.isa(Int)
15:27 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea:  ( no output )
15:27 patrickas moritz_ I guess more people would be interrested in helping right after the release and it could be a good window of opportunity for the weekly challenges
15:27 dakkar rakudo: say 12.isa(Int)
15:27 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
15:27 dakkar rakudo: say 12.isa(Num)
15:27 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«0␤»
15:27 dakkar ???
15:27 colomon Ints are not Nums.
15:27 dakkar uhm
15:27 colomon rakudo: say 12.isa(Real)
15:28 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«0␤»
15:28 colomon rakudo: say 12 ~~ Real
15:28 moritz_ patrickas: indeed - but I've run out of ideas :(
15:28 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
15:28 colomon rakudo: say 12 ~~ Int
15:28 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
15:28 colomon rakudo: say 12 ~~ Num
15:28 dakkar so what is a Num?
15:28 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«0␤»
15:28 PerlJam also ...
15:28 moritz_ dakkar: a floating-point number
15:29 PerlJam rakudo: 12.does(Num)
15:29 CSJewell heard about the .msi earlier - the Padre people would like me to make one, but I seem to have heard something about R* having problems building on Strawberry 5.12 32-bit?
15:29 moritz_ rakudo: say 1.2e0 ~~ Num
15:29 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea:  ( no output )
15:29 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
15:29 PerlJam rakudo: 12.does(Real)
15:29 colomon rakudo: say 12 ~~ Numeric
15:29 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea:  ( no output )
15:29 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
15:29 dakkar ah! it's a representation
15:29 pheuter joined #perl6
15:29 moritz_ Int, Num, Rat are classes, Numeric, Real are roles
15:30 dakkar so I want sub foo(Numeric $a)
15:30 tadzik rakudo: Hash.^methods.join("\n") # what about this one?
15:30 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Method 'join' not found for invocant of class 'ResizablePMCArray'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/zA2X_nHYmI␤»
15:30 colomon dakkar: or sub foo(Real $a) if you don't want to allow Complex numbers
15:30 ShadeHawk joined #perl6
15:30 dakkar colomon: now I get it :)
15:30 PerlJam CSJewell: dunno. azawawi was working on strawberry issues earlier though.
15:30 moritz_ tadzik: it's because Hash is a role in Rakudo... which is wrong-ish, I think
15:31 * jnthn back home
15:31 ShadeHawk Does Perl 6 implementation have support for zlib compression (Compress::Zlib, PerlIO::gzip)?
15:31 tadzik ShadeHawk: not yet. You can use them from Blizkost though
15:31 tadzik or write something for Perl 6 :)
15:31 moritz_ nope.. though I've heard that there's a parrot implementation, which would make it quite easy to use it from Rakudo
15:31 CSJewell I'll talk to him then.
15:31 tadzik even better
15:31 squeeky so err, what's the difference, or what's happening with CPAN6 and modules.perl6.org?
15:31 whee moritz_: what's the point of the challenges? to improve rakudo directly or just get people writing perl 6 code (to improve it indirectly)
15:32 tadzik moritz_: btw, mind adding my modules to proto?
15:32 moritz_ whee: both. All challenges so far have either lead to rakudo patches, or to improvements in the infrastructure
15:32 moritz_ tadzik: go right ahead - you have commit access to proto, right?
15:32 pheuter hello
15:32 tadzik moritz_: no :)
15:33 moritz_ hugme: add tadzik to proto
15:33 * hugme hugs tadzik. Welcome to proto!
15:33 PerlJam squeeky: modules.perl6.org is our stopgap until we figure out how to do CPAN6
15:33 njd left #perl6
15:33 tadzik hugme: hug moritz_
15:33 * hugme hugs moritz_
15:33 moritz_ tadzik: don't lie to me :-)
15:33 tadzik moritz_: add Acme::Meow for Ofun? :)
15:33 moritz_ tadzik: sure!
15:33 * moritz_ -> out
15:33 PerlJam squeeky: maybe modules.perl6.org becomes CPAN6.  We don't quite know yet.
15:34 ShadeHawk moritz_: commit access?  what's that, centralized version control system? ;-)))
15:34 squeeky ah. okay. is anyone planning some BOFing that topic at yapc::eu?
15:34 PerlJam squeeky: there has also been some talk from p5p people about making the existing CPAN accomodate Perl 6, but I don't know where that's going
15:34 patrickas moritz_:  how about we pick some small usefull/interesting module on cpan and ask for porters ? it would be easy cause starting from scratch and people would be able to run while doing it?
15:34 snarkyboojum squeeky: if you're referring to http://cpan6.org/, I don't think anyone really knows much about it
15:35 pheuter Is there any *updated* documentation available on using parrot with perl6/rakudo
15:35 PerlJam cpan6.org suffers from too much "good idea" and not enough "fait accompli"  :)
15:36 squeeky XML schema, good idea? questionable.
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15:37 PerlJam pheuter: using parrot how?  What do you want to do?
15:37 pheuter PerlJam: write a compiler
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15:38 pheuter for a language, like Squeek
15:38 squeeky Squeak.
15:38 pheuter but the documentation is pretty outdated on writing Squeek
15:38 pheuter Squeak*
15:38 pheuter lol
15:38 pheuter squeeky would know ;)
15:39 davidfetter squak?
15:40 PerlJam yeah, there's squaak
15:40 tadzik moritz_: why are there different projects.list for proto and pls branches?
15:40 PerlJam but it comes at it from a Parrot, PCT, NQP perspective
15:40 pheuter PerlJam: as opposed to which other perspective?
15:40 PerlJam pheuter: Perl6 + Parroty bits
15:41 PerlJam I guess it's largely the same as NQP is a subset of Perl 6
15:41 davidfetter moritz_, i'm a little baffled by how &infix:<,> turns a parrot array into a perl6 array
15:41 pheuter PerlJam: Ah, where can i get docs on that
15:41 davidfetter any clues as to why that would be?
15:41 Ross joined #perl6
15:42 PerlJam pheuter: http://github.com/ekiru/squaak-tutorial
15:43 PerlJam pheuter: but talk to tylercurtis when you see him around here.
15:43 pheuter thnx
15:45 LaVolta finally got rid of the '\c' problem on osx
15:45 LaVolta rakudo-star-2010.07/parrot-2.6.0/config/auto/icu.pm
15:46 LaVolta change the original line to $icushared =~ s/\s+\\c\s?$//;
15:46 LaVolta then it will be okay to build now
15:47 snarkyboojum_ joined #perl6
15:47 patrickas LaVolta what's the OSX issue about ?
15:48 LaVolta patrickas:  you type 'perl configure.pl --gen-parrot', then it complains the 'c' not found
15:48 PerlJam pheuter: there was an errant \c in the makefile apparently
15:49 PerlJam er, patrickas
15:49 LaVolta and parrot folks seems already noticed that problem
15:49 aharoni joined #perl6
15:49 LaVolta there's a comment line documented the problem
15:50 patrickas oh ok ... should a new tgz be built for osx ?
15:50 LaVolta patrickas:  I guess it would be good :-P
15:51 LaVolta it's all about the icu...
15:51 tylercurtis pheuter: The Squaak tutorial at http://docs.parrot.org/parrot/latest/html/PCT_Tutorial.html is up-to-date now, actually.
15:53 plol joined #perl6
15:53 pheuter tylercurtis: with perl6?
15:54 pheuter tylercurtis: I've looked at it about 2-3 weeks ago, and someone told me it is outdated as I was unable to follow it exactly without errors
15:57 PerlJam pheuter: See http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/day-21-grammars-and-actions/ also
15:58 Su-Shee damn. I forgot the perl advent stuff.
15:58 PerlJam pheuter: and chapter 10 of the Perl 6 Book
15:58 tylercurtis pheuter: I updated it last week. :) It uses PCT and NQP-rx, rather than Perl 6. I don't think people are attempting to write many compilers in Perl 6 itself yet.
15:58 pheuter PerlJam: where can i find the Perl 6 Book ?
15:58 PerlJam pheuter: in the R* dist under docs/UsingPerl6-draft.pdf
15:59 pheuter tylercurtis: awesome! So, following that guide i should be able to write a compiler for Squaak using perl6 ?
15:59 pheuter PerlJam: thnx
16:00 tylercurtis pheuter: Perl 6? no. Not Quite Perl 6? Yes.
16:00 pheuter tylercurtis: right, i mean parrot's variant
16:00 whee which synopsis document do "binary objects" fall under?
16:01 [Coke] pheuter: tylercurtis++ has the most up to date version of that, fixed just before the parrot 2.6.0 release; please let him (or trac.parrot.org) know if you have any troubles with that documentation.
16:01 jnthn whee: S09 describes at least some of it.
16:02 pheuter [Coke]: yep, thanks a lot!
16:03 Kodi left #perl6
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16:04 isBEKaml why does the Channel msg still show R* beta8 download link?
16:05 squeeky the channel is -t yknow.
16:05 [Coke] whoops, typo in url in my blogs.perl.org entry, fixed, thanks to kind samaritan.
16:06 tylercurtis pheuter: Unfortunately, it doesn't cover some things (OO and namespaces, for example), but it does provide enough to make a fairly useful language. I plan to write docs to cover the things it doesn't, but I probably won't get around to that until sometime late next month at soonest.
16:07 Topic for #perl6is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is ourfriend! | Rakudo Star Released!
16:07 Topic for #perl6is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star Released!
16:08 Su-Shee *haha* "#Rakudo  * is out and is stable as a rock. Moves as a rock too, but hey."
16:08 itz can I list class or object methods by using a method?
16:08 tadzik :)
16:09 PerlJam itz:  $obj.^methods
16:09 PerlJam rakudo: 5.^methods.join(" ").say
16:09 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«sin Int Bridge to-radians abs acosech acotan ln ceiling cotanh unpolar Real atan acos Rat tanh atanh cosec Num perl WHICH roots isNaN tan from-radians log10 cos pred acosec sinh asinh Numeric cosech reals Str asec acotanh floor sech ACCEPTS asech rand truncate round sqrt asin
16:09 p6eval ..Bool …
16:09 itz tnx
16:09 PerlJam rakudo: Hash.^methods.join(" ").say
16:10 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Method 'join' not found for invocant of class 'ResizablePMCArray'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/5pLV69bbyO␤»
16:10 [Coke] http://www.perl.com/pub/2010/07/welcome-rakudo-star.html
16:10 timbunce joined #perl6
16:11 aharoni [Coke], hallo! Did you see my comment on http://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=64032 ?
16:13 timdemkowsky joined #perl6
16:15 timdemkowsky We need Perl 6 on Android. :D
16:15 isBEKaml :D
16:15 Su-Shee I couldn't agree more.
16:16 isBEKaml heck, we need it on the JVM first. :)
16:16 Su-Shee shiny 550 downloads.
16:17 timdemkowsky I think somebody wrote an scripting environment for Android, ill look after it when im back home.
16:18 timdemkowsky Maybe somebody here wants to start a port ;) parrot on android would be great i guess
16:18 moritz_ somebody wrote in a completly unrelated IRC channel that he installed R* on the computers of the local university computer room
16:18 moritz_ computer science department, and he's an admin there :-)
16:18 PerlJam (that guy)++
16:19 moritz_ indeed :-)
16:19 whee timdemkowsky: sl4a; http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ There is perl 5 support in it at the moment
16:19 disturbedmime joined #perl6
16:19 timdemkowsky moritz_: Nice :)
16:19 pmurias perlito has a python backend so it should be possible to run Perl 6 code on symbian
16:19 Su-Shee moritz_: that's how linux spread in berlin. ;) some university admin installed it ;)
16:20 pugssvn r31859 | pmurias++ | [mildew] ignore use v6-mildew
16:20 timdemkowsky whee: yup, that thing was what i thought of.
16:20 whee timdemkowsky: the funny decision is whether or not you want to target parrot and have that target the jvm :)
16:20 Su-Shee moritz_: AND SEE WHERE IT IS TODAY! ;)
16:20 moritz_ Su-Shee: on both of my computers. Like Rakudo :-)
16:20 * tylercurtis thinks someone who posts on Reddit should mention Zavolaj or IO::Prompter as examples of Perl 6's unique awesomeness.
16:21 Su-Shee moritz_: and paying our rent. and serving the internet. ;)
16:21 pugssvn r31860 | pmurias++ | [STD] prefix LazyMap and Actions with an STD:: prefix
16:21 Su-Shee it would be nice if some wrote a zavolaj idiot's tutorial.
16:21 jnthn whee: Not really - you'd want the whole stack on one VM. Since there's things like eval and so forth.
16:21 LaVolta good night guys, sleep tight :)
16:21 timdemkowsky whee: i will not do that, java is not a friend of mine :p
16:22 whee jnthn: so you'd want parrot to target the native hardware?
16:22 jnthn whee: No
16:23 [Coke] I submiterated us to boingboing.
16:23 isBEKaml whee: what jnthn meant is, he'd target the JVM directly instead of an interplay between VMs.
16:23 jnthn whee: You'd not involve Parrot at all.
16:23 whee oh, sure
16:23 Su-Shee [Coke]: you're aiming for a perl 6 meme? ;)
16:24 timdemkowsky Su-Shee: like 'knock knock' 'who is there?' *long pause* 'r*' ;)
16:25 Su-Shee *HIHIHIHI* :)
16:25 isBEKaml Su-Shee: like what? boingboing's like the source of all Internet memes? ;)
16:25 moritz_ :-)
16:25 Su-Shee isBEKaml: well a little it is :)
16:25 timdemkowsky But thats more a 'joke' than a meme...
16:25 jnthn Oh, so that is how is meme formed.
16:25 * jnthn tries out the Windows MSI for R*
16:26 uniejo joined #perl6
16:26 * isBEKaml tries modifying the slackbuild to package R* for Slackware.
16:26 Su-Shee isBEKaml: OHA. Shiny!
16:27 Su-Shee isBEKaml: are you submitting it for slackbuilds.org?
16:27 isBEKaml Su-Shee: I already have a slackbuild script out. I have to test it first. :)
16:27 pugssvn r31861 | pmurias++ | [smop] add missing files
16:27 Su-Shee isBEKaml: now I can die happy. a slackware package for perl 6. ;)
16:28 isBEKaml Su-Shee: http://github.com/svatsan/RakudoStar-SlackBuilds.git
16:28 isBEKaml Su-Shee: It currently doesn't work quite right. You have to download parrot and rakudo separately, then run the individual slackbuilds.
16:29 isBEKaml I'm looking to make it play well with R* source.
16:29 * Su-Shee watches.
16:29 Su-Shee .oO(two niches on one computer.. ;)
16:30 isBEKaml :)
16:30 PerlJam jnthn: someone earlier said that the rakudo in the MSI  wouldn't do  "%hash{$key}" interpolation.
16:31 Su-Shee hey, slackware is the other totally old fashioned, underestimated, doesnt-get-love-anymore project ;)
16:31 moritz_ judging from the feedback it seemed to be a pretty old rakudo
16:31 isBEKaml Su-Shee: oh, no. You're very wrong. Just hit ##slackware. you'll know. :)
16:31 squeeky The fbsd port of rakudo could also use an update, that's nearly a month old now.
16:32 tadzik joined #perl6
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16:32 jnthn PerlJam: huh?
16:32 jnthn PerlJam: Which MSI?
16:32 PerlJam jnthn: apparently one you put together.  Is there another?
16:33 moritz_ jnthn: see http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2010-07-29#i_2631861
16:34 PerlJam moritz_: although ... we don't know if he had an earlier version of rakudo around that he was accidentally using instead of the one that came with R*
16:34 jnthn moritz_: huh, that's...confusing. :-)
16:35 jnthn moritz_: It works in the latest one I just built, anyway.
16:35 moritz_ jnthn: yeah, the --version output shows that he is running a rather old rakudo
16:35 moritz_ Date:   Mon Jul 5 03:39:22 2010 -0500
16:35 moritz_ Refactor $*IN, $*OUT, $*ERR.  Add $*PERL.  Add --version option.
16:36 jnthn Oddness!
16:36 moritz_ the --version output was from before that
16:36 wamba joined #perl6
16:36 Su-Shee isBEKaml: I know, I read linuxquestions.org sometimes and the slackware subforum is one large happy place.. they got essentially the same level of user satisfaction as perl does in questionaires.
16:37 Guest38356 left #perl6
16:37 PerlJam is there an equivalent to "which perl6" on windows?
16:38 PerlJam does the MSI add the install dir to the PATH?
16:38 jnthn PerlJam: No
16:38 jnthn PerlJam: But it does associated .p6 files with Rakudo.
16:38 jnthn *associate
16:38 isBEKaml PerlJam: quit cmd and use PowerShell! ;)
16:38 moritz_ btw I did some quick statistics on the IRC logs: 120 distinct nicks today, <90 on the last two days each
16:39 [Coke] (if there are any boingboing readers here, feel free to upvote. =-)
16:40 isBEKaml Su-Shee: I do visit the linuxquestions.org subform occasionally and the satisfaction levels are pretty high, partly due to what Slack offers. ;)
16:40 isBEKaml _slack_  ;)
16:41 moritz_ enough euphoria - let's get back to hacking
16:41 Su-Shee isBEKaml: I started with slack and went back after a few years of everything else. they all annoyed me and so I went back to slack. and stayed there. :)
16:41 isBEKaml moritz_: just like the morning coffee. :)
16:41 isBEKaml Su-Shee: I thought you'd be more with Suse. ;)
16:42 isBEKaml btw, I started with ubuntu and settled on slack after sampling everything else for a week to month each. :)
16:43 Su-Shee isBEKaml: I had Suse quite some time, yes. but then they just had to switch to sysV init. and make everything shiny.
16:43 dalek rakudo: d65e73b | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
16:43 dalek rakudo: bump PARROT_REVISION to get some nqp-rx fixes
16:43 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d65e73b1515912927bab3aa506f3e609af5c709f
16:43 dalek rakudo: da16b58 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
16:43 dalek rakudo: use less code to check for allowed s/// adverbs
16:43 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/da16b58122894de46b84ff24252a8e6a94f9ede9
16:44 brian joined #perl6
16:45 isBEKaml Su-Shee: Ah, I agree with you there. Shiny doesn't always mean right.
16:45 jnthn OK, here is an MSI for Rakudo Star. Not perfect, no doubt, but gives you a working Perl 6, the modules, the book/cheatsheet and shortcut to perl6.org too, plus .p6 file association. http://www.jnthn.net/perl6/rakudo/Rakudo-Star-2010-07.msi
16:46 jnthn If anyone knows a good place to link it from, feel free to do so. :-)
16:46 PerlJam jnthn: upload it to R*'s download dir.  that's linked all over the place
16:46 etaoin_ joined #perl6
16:48 stimpi joined #perl6
16:48 stimpi hi guys
16:48 stimpi thank you for the rakudo star release
16:48 etaoin_ jnthn: my bad I had installed strawberry perl with padre and it had a perl6 in the path info. R* works just dandy now that I fixed the path. thanks for the MSI btw makes it easy to play on my netbook at work :)
16:49 PerlJam wow 585 downloads so far
16:49 stimpi i am trying to build this on a linux machine, but i am getting the following error
16:49 jnthn etaoin_: Oh, phew! :-)
16:49 jnthn etaoin_: I thought something was really messed up. ;-)
16:49 stimpi gcc -o miniparrot src/main.o src/null_config.o \ -Wl,-rpath=/home/josed/r2/rakudo-star-2010.07/parrot-2.6.0/blib/lib -L/home/josed/r2/rakudo-star-2010.07/parrot-2.6.0/blib/lib -lparrot  -lresolv -lnsl -ldl -lm -lcrypt -lutil -lpthread -lrt  -Wl,-E src/main.o(.text+0xcf): In function `main': src/main.c:126: undefined reference to `allocate_interpreter'
16:49 stimpi any ideas?
16:50 PerlJam stimpi: do you have another parrot installed?
16:50 stimpi no
16:50 timdemkowsky stimpi: where did you get the source from?
16:50 stimpi from github, rakudo star release tar ball
16:50 high joined #perl6
16:50 [Coke] what version of gcc?
16:50 PerlJam jnthn: if you want, I'll add that MSI to the downloads area for R*
16:51 stimpi gcc 3.4.6
16:51 patrickas stimpi: linux destro ?
16:51 stimpi rhel 4.5.2
16:51 stimpi on a 64bit machine
16:51 moritz_ stimpi: my first attempt would be to try a non-ancient gcc :-)
16:51 perlygatekeeper left #perl6
16:52 stimpi i dont have enough privileges to install a later version of gcc on this machine....will give that a try later from my home pc
16:52 PerlJam moritz_: rhel only has ancient gccs  ;-)
16:53 [Coke] (that function is defined in src/interp/interp_create.c and seems to be marked with PARROT_EXPORT. wonder if that's not expanding properly on that version of gcc)
16:53 moritz_ come on, even Debian stable has a 5.3.2
16:53 moritz_ s/5/4/
16:54 jnthn PerlJam: Just uploading it now
16:54 jnthn PerlJam: I suddenly realized I'd done a Debug build, not a Relesae one. :-)
16:54 jnthn (Of the installer.)
16:54 jnthn And watned to check the Release one would work (it does).
16:56 jnthn It's uploaded. \o/
16:56 jnthn PerlJam++ # suggesting to put it there
16:56 patrickas stimpi : There will be ninary releases pretty soon ... at worst you 'll be able to install that
16:56 stimpi cool - will wait for the binaries...
16:56 moritz_ patrickas: at worst it won't install on such an ancient system
16:57 PerlJam and I'm thinking that's the most likely scenario
16:57 patrickas at worst an asteroid will hit earth before he has a chance to try it :-)
16:57 stimpi ;-) will try jnth's msi installer too...
16:58 jjore joined #perl6
16:59 [Coke] jnthn: the cheatsheet is kind of ugly, but otherwise, all good. =-)
16:59 [Coke] jnthn++
16:59 NEwork joined #perl6
17:00 moritz_ rakudo: $_ = 'a'; my $x = m/./; say $x.WHAT
17:00 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Regex()␤»
17:00 moritz_ that's wrong
17:00 moritz_ iirc m// always matches immediately, only // is "magic"
17:01 ashleydev joined #perl6
17:02 pheuter what is the purpose of "use v6
17:03 PerlJam stimpi: btw, mention to whoever admins that box that they really should upgrade.  :)
17:03 moritz_ pheuter: declare that it's perl 6 you write, and getting much better error messages when you accidentally run it with perl 5
17:03 Kiran joined #perl6
17:03 moritz_ (which I've done quite often :)
17:03 pheuter moritz_: ah
17:04 PerlJam for some reason I've done that many times today
17:04 yo joined #perl6
17:10 etaoin joined #perl6
17:12 NEwork left #perl6
17:13 Su-Shee shiny. over 600 downloads.
17:13 etaoin left #perl6
17:14 lue hooray-o \o/ (er, hello o/)
17:14 jnthn Wow, already 10 of the Windows MSI too
17:15 jnthn o/ lue
17:15 Su-Shee it's nice to see in threads and forums that obviously some people really waited for perl 6.
17:16 [Coke] jnthn: well, one of those is me, I don't count. =-)
17:16 Su-Shee "so now is the time to confess that I did 300 of the downloads.." ? ;)
17:16 jer1cho joined #perl6
17:16 jer1cho so, back at home
17:17 [Coke] that nick looks enough like timtowtdi that I had to double check.
17:19 timdemkowsky haha
17:21 * lue checks slashdot to see if R* is there :)
17:22 etaoin joined #perl6
17:25 [particle] parrot.org had 4,406 visits the day parrot 2.0 was released, rakudo.org already has 4,216 visits today
17:25 etaoin Su-Shee: I have been an avid lurker for many years, many of us are probably like me excited by occupied. fortunately I just finished a big project last night that gave me an excuse to play with R* today. happy me :D all of us out in lurker land give you our love!
17:25 abra joined #perl6
17:25 PerlJam [particle]: rakudo is sexier
17:26 [particle] that's no lie.
17:26 disturbedmime left #perl6
17:26 [Coke] TT #1720 fixed (fdiv op)
17:26 etaoin by=but -- it was a long night
17:28 Su-Shee etaoin: I'll have to use "avid lurker" right at the next opportunity :)
17:29 etaoin i was watching the thread here all night for the publish of R* -- i feel like the fans who stand in line for the next harry potter book. you have perl6 groupies ;D
17:30 Su-Shee etaoin: I'm one too. I'm planning to make a shirt "rakudo starlet" ;)
17:32 nomad1 joined #perl6
17:32 kolibrie joined #perl6
17:34 Su-Shee *sniff* "I think I'm falling for perl all over again <3" (hackernews)
17:35 [Coke] ahahaha.  "Perl can now compete with Java for slow startup." parrot says you're welcome. :P
17:36 PerlJam heh
17:36 jnthn We'll get there.
17:36 jnthn Oh, wait!
17:36 jnthn :-)
17:36 isBEKaml Su-Shee: I could submit the slackbuilds for parrot and rakudo separately to slackbuilds.org right now. What I'm doing here is mainly for R* with a few changes in place. :)
17:36 PerlJam jnthn: when do you find out about your grant application?
17:36 jnthn PerlJam: Not sure.
17:36 lue I am very tempted right now to submit news of R* to slashdot...
17:36 isBEKaml [Coke]: heh. I think it's unwise comparing perl6 to early JVMs. :|
17:36 jnthn lue: It's already been submitted, fwiw
17:36 Su-Shee isBEKaml: please do so.
17:36 skyheights joined #perl6
17:37 Su-Shee lue: it's on reddit, hackernews, slashdot and the other one I forgot.
17:37 jnthn PerlJam: Pm submitted one before me and didn't get an answer yet either though, so I'm not even at the front of the queue yet. ;-)
17:37 Su-Shee digg!
17:37 [Coke] lwn had a post.
17:37 [Coke] see gabor's wiki page collecting press links.
17:37 isBEKaml somebody should do it on del.icio.us :)
17:37 [particle] most rakudo.org referrals are from reddit, over 1k
17:37 PerlJam isBEKaml: been done
17:37 Su-Shee [Coke]: url?
17:37 isBEKaml PerlJam: great!
17:37 lue No it wasn't. I can't find it.
17:38 [particle] i sent a mail to the editor-in-chief at sd times
17:38 [particle] maybe we'll get a story from them
17:38 PerlJam I wonder if we could get a shout-out from merlyn on FLOSS Weekly.
17:39 PerlJam (although I have no idea what the lead time is on those)
17:39 stkowski joined #perl6
17:39 lue [particle]: did you use the Submit a Story link?
17:40 Su-Shee has someone an ars technica contact or whatever is needed there? I'd like to see it on more not totally geekrelated pages which are read by web developers.
17:40 [particle] lue: i didn't see one, i sent an email.
17:42 etaoin http://hashtags.org/perl6 R* is getting out on twitter a bit too
17:42 [particle] Dan Magnuszewski is the Public Relations lead at TPF, he might have contacts at ars
17:42 lue Ah.    .oO(maybe if a bunch of people submit the news, it will get published)
17:42 [Coke] Su-Shee: http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?rakudo_star_press
17:43 [Coke] ah, dan was the guy who pointed out my links on blogs.p.o were wrong. =-)
17:43 [Coke] Magnuszewski++
17:43 Su-Shee ahaem. I had like 30 rakudos compiled and run perfectly at the given level - and _now_ I get "invalid charset number -98"? what does that mean?
17:43 [Coke] that sounds like a parrot complaining about a string charset.
17:43 aCiD2 joined #perl6
17:44 Su-Shee it does. what do I have to do?
17:44 aCiD2 Hi folks, having my first play with perl6 at last. Just curious how featureful attributes are, coming from a moose background. For example, do concepts such as required attributes, builders, or predicates exist?
17:44 aCiD2 I see no mention of any of them in the spec
17:44 aCiD2 not even types for attributes, in fact, but I may have overlooked that
17:45 [particle] required attributes work with 'has $.some-attribute = die {...};'
17:45 PerlJam aCiD2: perl6 does have a type system that you can use with attributes.
17:45 [particle] i'm not sure if we got 'is required' in there yet
17:45 aCiD2 [particle]: Ah, I did try is required but that didn't seem to make any difference
17:45 aCiD2 PerlJam: I was aware of the type system, which is why I was surprised to see no mention of it
17:46 aCiD2 if "is required" is the way it should work, maybe that can be my first patch :)
17:47 PerlJam aCiD2++
17:47 aharoni I ran perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot on Cygwin. Parrot was downloaded and compiled successfully, but the actual Rakudo Configure.pl died at line 119, complaining that it can't find cygparrot2_6_0.dll.
17:47 [Coke] bah, cygwin?
17:48 [Coke] whoop,s you said that. =-)
17:48 aCiD2 PerlJam: I'm tyring "has Str $.name" which to me seems like how typing would work, am I wrong there? Because it is still allowing me to set name to 5 (name => 5). Perhaps a coercion?
17:48 aharoni http://pastebin.com/4V2eWZaw
17:48 [Coke] aharoni: there is a ticket open about something like that. moment...
17:48 dual joined #perl6
17:48 aharoni [Coke]: yes, i opened it
17:48 aharoni it's probably something very simple
17:48 pugssvn joined #perl6
17:49 * jnthn -> dinner, bbl
17:49 aharoni cygparrot2_6_0.dll does exist in ./parrot/cygparrot2_6_0.dll
17:49 [Coke] http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=64032
17:49 [Coke] ok. so you know the workaround. :(
17:50 aharoni i think that it's a different problem now
17:50 moritz_ http://lwn.net/Articles/397892/ wow, only positive comments sofar
17:50 lue :O
17:50 jaldhar_ joined #perl6
17:50 [Coke] aharoni: right, but in the ticket, you copied the dll into /rakudo's/ dir, ja?
17:51 PerlJam aCiD2: Hmm.  perhaps it's just broken.  Have you checked the RT bug queue?
17:51 aharoni oh, wait, the workaround does work
17:51 Su-Shee http://pastebin.org/428221 <- I get that on any perl6 call.
17:51 aCiD2 PerlJam: nope, I just jumped right in :) I'll have a look to see if I can find some tests to help me and check the bug queue too
17:51 moritz_ Su-Shee: did you have any parrots or rakudos installed before?
17:52 Su-Shee moritz_: err.. I lost count. yes.
17:52 Su-Shee moritz_: I'll go clean up.
17:52 moritz_ Su-Shee: it looks like an interaction with an old .pbc or .pir file
17:52 isBEKaml Su-Shee: too bad you're not using removepkg. ;)
17:52 Su-Shee isBEKaml: *cough* indeed.
17:52 isBEKaml Su-Shee: or that's locally built and not site-wide?
17:53 Su-Shee rakudo is spread all over. ;)
17:53 isBEKaml Su-Shee: (without looking at pastebin) you can try cleaning up ~/.perl6/lib folder first.
17:53 Su-Shee why? there's my local stuff like fakedbi and my own modules in..
17:54 moritz_ Su-Shee: because rakudo looks there fore modules, unconditionally :(
17:54 moritz_ Su-Shee: and when it finds outdated .pir files, it starts cryiing
17:54 isBEKaml Su-Shee: what moritz_++ said.
17:56 Su-Shee ahaem. ok. I removed 12 rakudo trees.
17:56 moritz_ and now your disk usage has dropped 30% :-)
17:56 acrussell joined #perl6
17:57 Su-Shee that's nothing. I had three Gnomes once. ;)
17:57 moritz_ oh.
17:57 isBEKaml blech.
17:57 Su-Shee yeah well I suffer for open source. ;)
17:58 * moritz_ broke s:g/// locally. Meh.
17:59 moritz_ ah. Because I can't type. Interesting.
18:00 PerlJam the twitterverse is certainly atwitter about R*
18:00 Su-Shee PerlJam: well releases are our version of gossip :)
18:01 Su-Shee PerlJam: my favorite is still the "perl wins: perl 6 released before php 6"
18:01 patch is Q:lang { ... } currently supported for Parrot langs other than PIR?
18:01 PerlJam Well, it seems to have unpopped the cork of "Perl 6 release"  (even though it's not substantially different from the Rakudo release a week ago)
18:02 patspam1 joined #perl6
18:03 lue .oO(Hrm, R* is currently in the ./ 'firehose')
18:03 abra howdy!
18:03 Su-Shee PerlJam: it's very cute sometimes - "I think I'll fall for Perl again" :)
18:03 lue * /.
18:03 Su-Shee ah. now my stuff is clean.
18:03 abra whare I can find vim syntax file for perl6?
18:03 Su-Shee abra: in github (sec) but it's rather slow.
18:04 Su-Shee abra: http://github.com/hinrik/vim-perl
18:04 abra Su-Shee, tnx
18:05 PerlJam abra: you can also use Padre (padre.perlide.org) for your editor.  It handles Perl6 syntax highlighting too
18:07 abra PerlJam, Ouh! tnx! I'll try it
18:07 isBEKaml why was DESTDIR removed from rakudo's make install?
18:07 isBEKaml I remember seeing that this morning. this would break linux distro builds.
18:08 pheuter http://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/blob/master/interpreters/brainfuck.p6.pl doesn't seem to work
18:09 isBEKaml pheuter: IIRC, perl6-examples is pretty old. Some of those examples need fixing in order to work with current Rakudo implementation specifics.
18:09 PerlJam isBEKaml: you mean R* ?
18:09 isBEKaml PerlJam: yes.
18:10 pheuter what is R*
18:10 isBEKaml Rakudo *
18:10 pheuter ah
18:10 pheuter :P
18:10 pheuter is there a subst ?
18:10 [Coke] "Maybe tomorrow the hell will freeze."
18:11 isBEKaml rakudo: my $x = "foo"; $x.subst(/o/, "u", :g);
18:11 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea:  ( no output )
18:11 isBEKaml rakudo: my $x = "foo"; say  $x.subst(/o/, "u", :g);
18:12 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«fuu␤»
18:12 isBEKaml pheuter: ^^
18:12 pheuter thnx
18:12 pheuter what does :g mean?
18:13 isBEKaml same as what s///g does in p5.
18:13 [Coke] global.
18:13 [Coke] (everywhere, not just the once)
18:13 pheuter thnx
18:13 skyheights Downloaded the .msi, installed and launched the REPL -> "Hello, World!" No hitches or glitches, just awesomeness. jnthn++
18:14 pheuter what did .= signify? How would one do it in R* ?
18:14 * [Coke] just had a japanese friend ask what the (&*#4 was up with the name. =-)
18:15 patch rakudo: my $x = 'foo'; say Q:PIR { %r = find_lex '$x' }
18:15 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«foo␤»
18:16 [particle] whee! inline pir! :)
18:16 [Coke] rakudo: Q:PIR { say "Isn't that cheating?" }
18:16 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Isn't that cheating?␤»
18:17 [Coke] http://news.perlfoundation.org/2010/07/rakudo-star---a-useful-usable.html
18:17 [Coke] Karen++
18:17 tylercurtis pheuter: In Perl 5, "$a .= 'foo';" is the same as "$a = $a . 'foo'", which sets $a to $a with 'foo' concatenated to it. In Perl 6, you can do that with ~=.
18:18 patch rakudo: Q:ecmascript { print('test'); }
18:18 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Colons may not be used to delimit quoting constructs at line 22, near ":ecmascrip"␤»
18:18 [Coke] Albany.pm meeting coincidentally on R*Day.
18:18 [particle] that's a less than awesome error
18:18 pheuter rakudo: my $x = "n is 5"; $x ~= subst(/(\w+) is (\w+)/,{'$0 = $1'}, :g); say $x
18:18 lue tylercurtis: I didn't know ~= was a part of P6.
18:18 [Coke] (sadly, it's me and one other guy.)
18:19 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &subst␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/htekAwrT8s␤»
18:19 tylercurtis lue: why not? It's the = meta-op.
18:19 tylercurtis pheuter: in Perl 6, "$a .= foo()" is the same as "$a = $a.foo()", which sets $a to the result of calling the foo method on $a.
18:19 isBEKaml rakudo: Q:fooLang { print("foobar"); }
18:19 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Colons may not be used to delimit quoting constructs at line 22, near ":fooLang {"␤»
18:19 isBEKaml # I think the error' sthe same.
18:19 isBEKaml as the one in ecmascript. LTA.
18:20 pheuter rakudo: my $x = "n is 5"; $x = x.subst(/(\w+) is (\w+)/,{'$0 = $1'}, :g); say $x
18:20 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &x␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/YyvcJzFFq7␤»
18:20 pheuter rakudo: my $x = "n is 5"; $x = $x.subst(/(\w+) is (\w+)/,{'$0 = $1'}, :g); say $x
18:20 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«n is 5␤»
18:20 pheuter hm, i was expecting n = 5
18:20 [particle] yes, Q:<unrecognized-modifier> spits out a poor error
18:21 timdemkowsky is there a native lwp?
18:21 moritz_ pheuter: $/ and thus $0 isn't set in the closure yet
18:21 moritz_ pheuter: but it's passed in as first argument, so you can use $_[0] instead of $0 for now
18:21 tylercurtis pheuter: also, you want double quotes to interpolate.
18:21 pheuter rakudo: my $x = "n is 5"; $x = $x.subst(/(\w+) is (\w+)/,{"$[0] = $[1]"}, :g); say $x
18:21 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«n is 5␤»
18:22 pheuter hmmm
18:22 avar Is there a howto on using Blizkost somewhere?
18:22 tylercurtis rakudo: say ?('5' ~~ /\w+/)
18:22 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«1␤»
18:25 patch rakudo: my $x = 'foo'; say Q:PIR { $S0 = find_lex '$x'; %r = $S0 }
18:25 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤The opcode 'find_lex_s_sc' (find_lex<2>) was not found. Check the type and number of the arguments␤»
18:25 pheuter rakudo: "x is 5".subst(/(\w+) \s* is \s* (\w+)/,{ "my \$$[0] = $[1]" }, :g)
18:25 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea:  ( no output )
18:25 pheuter rakudo: say "x is 5".subst(/(\w+) \s* is \s* (\w+)/,{ "my \$$[0] = $[1]" }, :g)
18:25 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«my $Any() = Any()␤»
18:26 PerlJam avar: once you compile+install blizkost, the perl6 binary you built as part of R* will allow you to do things like  use CGI:from<perl5>;  and eval('print "hi\n"', :lang<perl5>);
18:27 PerlJam avar: see the examples in modules/blizkost/examples/* for a tad more
18:29 avar ah, use $mod :from<perl5>; failed
18:29 tylercurtis avar: really? use Data::Dumper:from<perl5>; worked for me.
18:30 avar I mean "use Data::Dumper :from<perl5>;"
18:30 pugssvn joined #perl6
18:30 tylercurtis Ah, indeed.
18:31 PerlJam avar: "Data::Dumper:from<perl5>"  note the lack of space.
18:31 PerlJam Or is that what you're saying?
18:31 avar yes, I know. Just saying the version with space does the wrong thing with no error message
18:31 PerlJam ah
18:31 PerlJam okay
18:32 timdemkowsky rakudo: "Foobar".perl();
18:32 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea:  ( no output )
18:32 gesh joined #perl6
18:32 timdemkowsky meh :p
18:33 tylercurtis rakudo: say "Foobar".perl(); #timdemkowsky, like so.
18:33 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«"Foobar"␤»
18:34 [particle] iow don't forget 'say' or 'print' if you want output :)
18:34 tylercurtis timdemkowsky: the evalbot doesn't autoprint.
18:34 aCiD2 Is there a "first" method for @arrays?
18:34 [particle] the evalbot is not a repl
18:34 xabbu42 joined #perl6
18:34 aCiD2 I tried looking at the pir code and couldn't see anything
18:34 aCiD2 maybe i'm looking in the wrong place though :)
18:34 timdemkowsky tylercurtis: ah, thanks! :)
18:34 pheuter If i installed rakudo* from the github tarball, where can i find tools/dev/mk_language_shell.pl for parrot?
18:35 [particle] rakudo: say $_ for Array.^methods
18:35 whee rakudo: say { say "foo" }.perl()
18:35 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea:
18:35 p6eval ..OUTPUT«new␤splice␤perl␤delete␤at_pos␤new␤iterator␤Bool␤pop␤perl␤Capture␤of␤elems␤Str␤unshift␤batch␤ACCEPTS␤hash␤eager␤flat␤rotate␤Num␤munch␤list␤shift␤map␤push␤exists␤at_pos␤fmt␤sort␤Int␤list␤item␤Num␤elems␤fmt␤Str␤chop␤rindex␤tanh␤subst␤Numeric␤chomp␤index␤IO␤chr␤acotanh␤trim-trailing␤fr…
18:35 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«{ ... }␤»
18:35 PerlJam rakudo: my @a = (1,2,3,4,9,4,3,5,6,7); say @a.first(* > 5);  #  :-)
18:35 tjyang_ joined #perl6
18:35 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«9␤»
18:35 aCiD2 ohhh, you don't use first {}
18:36 [particle] pheuter: under parrot/install iirc
18:36 aCiD2 I was getting all perl 5y with first { $_ eq 'foo' }
18:36 PerlJam avar: sure you do ...
18:36 PerlJam rakudo: my @a = (1,2,3,4,9,4,3,5,6,7); say @a.first: { $_ > 5 };
18:36 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«9␤»
18:36 pheuter [particle]: yes, thanks!
18:36 colomon or
18:36 colomon rakudo: my @a = (1,2,3,4,9,4,3,5,6,7); say @a.first({ $_ > 5 });
18:36 p6eval rakudo 9fd5ea: OUTPUT«9␤»
18:36 PerlJam er, s/avar/aCiD2/ earlier
18:37 colomon basically, * > 5 is a shortcut that let's you skip the {}
18:37 tylercurtis pheuter: $INSTALLPREFIX/lib/tools/dev/mk_language_shell.pl, also.
18:37 aCiD2 PerlJam: Ah, I must have been missing that : which caused a syntax error
18:37 pheuter tylercurtis: [particle], ===SORRY!=== Obsolete pod format, please use =begin/=end instead near "head1 NAME" when executing
18:38 tylercurtis pheuter: how are you running it?
18:38 pheuter the way it says http://docs.parrot.org/parrot/latest/html/examples/languages/squaak/doc/tutorial_episode_1.pod.html
18:39 [particle] something's looking for pod 6 instead of pod 5
18:39 timdemkowsky does somebody know a good native argument parser?
18:39 tylercurtis pheuter: are you sure you're not accidentally typing perl6 instead of perl?
18:39 colomon jnthn++ # now have working Rakudo on my Windows box for the first time ever....
18:40 tylercurtis timdemkowsky: command-line arguments?
18:40 pheuter tylercurtis: i am typing perl6, isn't that what we should use now?
18:40 timdemkowsky tylercurtis: yep
18:40 tylercurtis pheuter: that's a Perl 5 script.
18:40 timdemkowsky tylercurtis: if there isnt something around, i gonna write one by myself and put it on github
18:40 pheuter tylercurtis: k
18:40 tylercurtis timdemkowsky: just use a MAIN sub http://perlcabal.org/syn/S06.html#Declaring_a_MAIN_subroutine
18:42 tjyang_ Hi, there. I installed rakudo-start.2010.07.msi.   Please excuse this beginner question. so can rakudo perl 6 compiler  turn perl6 script into exe file on win32 ?
18:42 PerlJam tjyang_: not yet
18:43 timdemkowsky tylercurtis: wow. thats great.
18:43 tjyang_ perlJam: thanks for the answer.  "not yet" is better than NO :)
18:44 Su-Shee hm. 100 downloads per hour. :)
18:44 tjyang_ PerlJam: so I can expect when Perl 6 is done, I can see my perl 6 script got compiled into .exe and Unix executable, correct ?
18:45 PerlJam tjyang_: when/if someone champions the cause to make that happen.  Remember, we're all volunteers who work on the things that we find interesting.  IF no one finds that interesting, it may not happen.
18:46 pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6
18:46 phenny pmichaud: 14:19Z <moritz_> tell pmichaud that there's no tag for R* in the star repo - should be 6641ff4df7c39031c916b23e706963e599bf5a82
18:46 lue hello pmichaud o/
18:46 pmichaud Is Perl 6 dead yet?
18:46 PerlJam pmichaud: check the number of downloads.
18:46 timdemkowsky hey pmichaud! you did great work with rakudo! :)
18:47 pmichaud timdemkowsky: thanks.  We owe a lot to the whole team.
18:47 kjeldahl_ joined #perl6
18:47 tjyang_ PerlJam: understood. thanks for the volunteer work. I appreciated that. where is the URL I can  see the compiler effort ?
18:47 PerlJam pmichaud: there have been 2 more downloads since I said "check the number of downloads"  :)
18:48 tjyang_ I download it because I saw the wording of "compiler
18:48 tjyang_ " :)
18:48 timdemkowsky pmichaud: is there any possibility to donate some money? through flattr, maybe?
18:48 PerlJam tjyang_: Hmm.  Just because you don't get an exe out of it doesn't mean it's not a compiler :)
18:49 pmichaud timdemkowsky: I have a paypal account :-)  flattr would work too.
18:49 pmichaud basically, if you want to donate money, we can find ways to receive it.
18:49 [particle] there is also http://donate.perlfoundation.org/
18:49 pmichaud and TPF would always appreciate don.... right
18:49 timdemkowsky pmichaud: flattr would be great. let me know how to flattr rakudo! ;)
18:50 pmichaud PerlJam: github says "Downloads (2)"   :-P
18:50 [particle] and http://parrot.org/donate :)
18:50 PerlJam pmichaud: silly!  :-P
18:51 tjyang_ PerlJam: thanks for the correction. I am hoping to see perl6 can compile script into exe. if there is a team working on that direction. I am willing to donate money for that purpose.
18:51 cxreg strange that /. didnt post it yet
18:51 moritz_ cxreg: sometimes they have quite long delays
18:51 tjyang_ perlJam: "donate mony" = a few hounded US bucks.
18:52 moritz_ pmichaud: should m// bind or assign to $/ ?
18:52 lue it's in the firehose. masak and acid06 have submitted the news.
18:52 Su-Shee isn't this the slashdot posting? http://slashdot.org/recent (nr 12)
18:52 pmichaud moritz_: I'm still thinking about that one a bit.  iirc, neither timtoady nor I were entirely certain what the answer should be.
18:52 [particle] tjyang_: the parrot virtual machine is what would be used to compile a rakudo perl script into an executable
18:52 PerlJam tjyang_: consider making a targettted donation to TPF
18:53 moritz_ pmichaud: thing is, I'm trying to implement m:g// now, which also turns m// into an immediate call (as the spec says), so I have to handle it some way
18:53 tjyang_ PerlJam: I will check out the targeted donation in TPF.
18:53 [Coke] (targetted) non-targetted are used for misc. grants (including perl 6!)
18:53 moritz_ I'm doing an assign now, and see what the spectests say :-)
18:54 pmichaud moritz_: my last guess was that it would be done as an assign to dynamic $/
18:54 [Coke] <-- on the GC board.
18:54 cxreg moritz_: i kicked pudge
18:54 PerlJam tjyang_: what [Coke] said too!  :)
18:54 [particle] GC stands for grants committee in this case
18:54 [Coke] s/board//
18:54 * PerlJam pictures Coke taking out the trash everytime someone runs a perl6 program.
18:54 cxreg Su-Shee: that's a submission, not a posting, innit?
18:55 Su-Shee ah.
18:56 pugssvn joined #perl6
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19:00 [Coke] 14:57 < pudge_> Perl 6 isn't Perl.
19:00 [Coke] (from #perl@perl.org)
19:00 [Coke] appears to have been a driveby. Ah well.
19:01 lue .oO(Then why did Our Leader call it Perl?)
19:03 mb_ joined #perl6
19:03 [Coke] http://perlsphere.net/ ? never heard of it. (R* on there.)
19:03 [Coke] lue: that is a debate for the ages.
19:04 Cyrus joined #perl6
19:05 eternaleye joined #perl6
19:05 tjyang_ I am new here on this IRC. How strong is the  interest to  see Perl6 generating executable for different OS ? Did anybody ask for generating exe feature  like me ?
19:05 cono joined #perl6
19:06 timdemkowsky tjyang_: Would be a nice feature, but you are at the wrong place for that. You need to ask the parrot guys for that feature
19:06 [Coke] tjyang_: That is something that the parrot backend will eventually provide, though rakudo may target other backends at some point that let it do that too.
19:06 pmichaud tjyang_: I expect we'll have that feature relatively soon.
19:07 pmichaud tjyang_: it wouldn't surprise me if it's available in some form by Rakudo Star +2
19:07 [Coke] pmichaud: fakecutables?
19:07 pmichaud [Coke]: yes.
19:07 [Coke] hokay.
19:07 pmichaud getting .pbc's to run is high on my hit list right now.  I think we have the initialization cleaned up enough that we could handle it.
19:07 * jnthn back
19:07 pmichaud and I should be able to provide parrot with some detailed trac tickets if not.
19:07 jnthn colomon: Yay, glad it worked for you!
19:08 pmichaud jnthn: \o/
19:08 aCiD2 what does "Quoted method name requires parenthesized arguments at line 40, near ";\n    }\n  "" mean? I'm getting it on this line:       $sql .= " WHERE $!predicates.join(' AND ')";
19:08 jnthn pmichaud: Good nab? :-)
19:08 tjyang_ thanks for all who answer my beginner question.
19:08 colomon jnthn: mind you, I've only tried one line in the REPL so far.  :)
19:08 pmichaud jnthn: wasn't much of a nap, no.  I only got about 30 minutes before I had to head off to the day's next task
19:08 [Coke] aCiD2: are you expecting teh result in there to interpolate?
19:08 colomon pmichaud++
19:08 [particle] tjyang_: parrot would welcome your donations for that feature: http://parrot.org/donate
19:08 jnthn pmichaud: Aww.
19:08 aCiD2 [Coke]: sure am, because it works on the line before it :)
19:08 pmichaud tjyang_: thanks for asking!  questions like those let us know what's important to the community :)
19:09 jnthn aCiD2: It looks like you want ~= if you're trying to concatenate.
19:09 aCiD2 my $sql = "SELECT $!columns.map(*.sql).join(', ') FROM $!from.name()"; works, but the former doesn't seem to
19:09 [Coke] I would have expected that to need a {}.
19:09 aCiD2 ah
19:09 aCiD2 [Coke]: No, not if you provide parenthesis
19:09 aCiD2 jnthn: that's got it, thanks!
19:09 kiffin joined #perl6
19:09 [Coke] rakudo: my $sql = " WHERE $!predicates.join(' AND ')";
19:09 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Lexical 'self' not found␤  in main program body at line 2:/tmp/lDfLXPXdHK␤»
19:09 jnthn aCiD2: $a .= foo() is like $a = $a.foo(); :-)
19:09 [Coke] er, do you mean .= or ~= ?
19:09 aCiD2 jnthn: of course, that makes sense now
19:10 jnthn [Coke]: You wants to be in a method, but that'd work I expect.
19:10 [Coke] er, I just caught up. going back to sleep. :P
19:10 jnthn [Coke]: If it doesn't, it's a bug. :-)
19:10 aCiD2 [Coke]: I meant ~= apparently, but was thinking in perl 5
19:12 whee can you slice strings? I think I'm doing it wrong :|
19:12 Su-Shee 700! 70!
19:12 tjyang_ particle: got the URL, will consider.
19:12 tjyang_ get back to work :)
19:13 tylercurtis Su-Shee: I hope you didn't define postfix:<!>.... that might take a while.
19:13 japhb joined #perl6
19:13 darkop joined #perl6
19:13 Su-Shee I'm motivating everyone with download number clicking. ;)
19:15 [particle] a rakudo milestone: more downloads than bugs in the rt queue!
19:15 pmichaud rakudo star is #22 on reddit.
19:15 kiffin joined #perl6
19:16 [1]Casan joined #perl6
19:16 * PerlJam still boggles a little bit as these tweets that say something like "perl6 is here at last"
19:16 lue rakudo: my $a = "hello"; say $a[1..3]
19:16 PerlJam s/as/at/
19:16 p6eval rakudo da16b5:  ( no output )
19:16 lue aren't string splices NYI?
19:17 [particle] 25% of the rakudo.org visits today are from reddit
19:17 Su-Shee PerlJam: well the tweets I see seem genuinly excited. :)
19:17 [particle] over 1300
19:17 PerlJam yes.  So far, it's all been good news today  :)
19:17 supernovus rakudo: my regex hashKey { ( .*? ) \: }; if "hello:" ~~ /<&hashKey>/ { say $/<hashKey>[0]; }
19:17 [particle] PerlJam: marketing is important, after all :)
19:17 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
19:18 jnthn lue: No, strings are not for splicing. :-)
19:18 jnthn lue: Bufs are for providing for that kinda stuff. Or use substr
19:18 supernovus that used to return 'hello' without the : on 'alpha'. :(
19:18 [particle] news.ycombinator.com is the second largest referrer, never knew about it
19:18 whee I have a string and want a clear way to say "strip off the first n characters and the last m characters"; substr is a little ugly
19:19 lue I think we left the so-called 'naysayers' speechless by actually _releasing_ something. They can't wail about it not being 'released'.
19:19 PerlJam rakudo: my $a = "hello"; say $a.comb.[1..3];
19:19 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«ell␤»
19:19 PerlJam lue: there you go  :)
19:19 lue rakudo: my $a = "hello"; say $a.comb.[1..3].perl;
19:19 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«("e", "l", "l")␤»
19:20 cosimo rakudo: my $host='127.0.0.1:11211'; my ($ip, $port) = $host ~~ m/(.*) : (\d+) $/; say $ip.perl, $port.perl;
19:20 lue aha! I knew it! :)
19:20 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ # WARNING: this is not working perl code␤ # and for debugging purposes only␤ from => 15,␤ orig => "127.0.0.1:11211",␤ to   => -3,␤)Any␤»
19:20 PerlJam details details  :)
19:20 Casan hah, I haven't seen the Duke Nukem 3D reference yet ;) it is indeed a cheerful day.
19:20 cosimo rakudo: my $host='127.0.0.1:11211'; my ($ip, $port) = $host ~~ m/(.*) : (\d+) $/; say $ip.Str.perl, $port.Str.perl;
19:20 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«"""Any()<0x38d12d0>"␤»
19:20 cosimo rakudo: my $host='127.0.0.1:11211'; my ($ip, $port) = $host ~~ m/(.*) : (\d+) $/; say $ip.Str, $port.Str;
19:21 [Coke] cosimo, I think you want named captures instead.
19:21 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Any()<0x38d12d0>␤»
19:21 cosimo [Coke]: can you show me an example?
19:21 aCiD2 http://gist.github.com/498974 any thoughts on my first bit of Perl 6? :)
19:21 [particle] my $a = "hello"; say $a.comb.[ $a[*+1] .. $a[*-2] ].perl;
19:21 aCiD2 Copying the idea of Fey from Perl 5
19:21 PerlJam cosimo: also, you realize that / : / doesn't match a literal colon?
19:23 supernovus Is there a reason that capturing parens inside a lexical regex don't turn into a named capture in the $/ anymore?
19:24 [Coke] rakudo: my $host='127.0.0.1:11211'; $host ~~ m/$<host>=(.*) ':' $<port>=(\d+) $/; say $/<host> ~ "@" ~ $/<port>
19:24 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«127.0.0.1@11211␤»
19:24 PerlJam supernovus: er, what?
19:24 [Coke] (holy crap that works.)
19:24 [Coke] cosimo - there you go.
19:24 supernovus PerlJam: Sorry that was worded terribly.
19:25 supernovus PerlJam: Basically if you use "hello" ~~ / <&namedRegex>/ and the named regex has a capturing () inside it, I would expect to be able to look at $/<namedRegex>[0] and find the result.
19:26 PerlJam <&foo> doesn't capture
19:26 PerlJam you'd have to do foo=&foo
19:26 PerlJam er, <foo=&foo>
19:26 Searle left #perl6
19:26 tylercurtis aCiD2: Why not use @!attributes for Selects' $!predicates = [], etc.?
19:26 aCiD2 tylercurtis: because I didn't know about them :)
19:27 aCiD2 that certainly makes more sense, thanks
19:27 tylercurtis aCiD2: you can simplify the from method to "method from (Table $!from) { self; };", too.
19:27 PerlJam supernovus: for <...> to be capturing, the first character after the < needs to be a "word" character
19:27 supernovus Ah, see, the code used to be / <namedRegex> / back in Rakudo alpha days, and <namedRegex> did capture without the name= part... oh how much has changed since I wrote this stupid program.
19:28 aCiD2 tylercurtis: how does that work? That just magically sets the attribute?
19:28 [Coke] cosimo: ?
19:29 tylercurtis aCiD2: yes. http://perlcabal.org/syn/S06.html#Attributive_parameters
19:29 aCiD2 interesting!
19:29 PerlJam supernovus: that's part of the spec that's still in flux somewhat last I heard.
19:29 supernovus PerlJam: I'm assuming there is no way to use the <namedCapture> syntax outside of a grammar these days?
19:29 PerlJam supernovus: right.
19:30 supernovus PerlJam: Fantastic. Oh well, a few extra characters won't hurt anything. Off to make those changes.
19:30 moritz_ well, there miight but. But it would be quite evil
19:31 moritz_ rakudo: use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class Grammar { token foo { foo } }; say 'foobar' ~~ /<foo>/
19:31 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Method 'foo' not found for invocant of class 'Cursor'␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/6bIghH3U4Y␤  in 'Cool::match' at line 2377:CORE.setting␤  in 'Regex::ACCEPTS' at line 5551:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/6bIghH3U4Y␤»
19:31 [Coke] reddit announcement still hasn't outvoted the "going to be announced" announcement yet. =-)
19:31 moritz_ rakudo: use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class Cursor { token foo { foo } }; say 'foobar' ~~ /<foo>/
19:31 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«foo␤»
19:32 moritz_ see? it's possible... but don't do that at home (or work) :-)
19:32 tylercurtis PerlJam: supernovus: you can do that with built-in named rules like <alpha>. But no non-evil way to do it for non-builtins.
19:32 tylercurtis rakudo: 'a' ~~ /<alpha>+/; $<alpha>.say # see?
19:32 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«a␤»
19:32 moritz_ [Coke]: I see 60 upvotes for the announcement on http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/
19:32 supernovus moritz_: Yeah, I don't want to be monkey patching to reduce <hashkey=&hashKey> to <hashKey> it's not worth it, and it's VERY evil!
19:32 PerlJam tylercurtis: oh, good point
19:33 moritz_ supernovus: agreed
19:33 kjeldahl joined #perl6
19:33 * lue considers sending the story to /. again to get it noticed/posted on the front page
19:33 nomad1 joined #perl6
19:33 rindolf joined #perl6
19:33 rindolf Hi all.
19:34 lue by again I mean 'be the third person to send in the news'
19:34 rindolf Congrats for Rakudo Star.
19:34 [Coke] moritz_: yes. the pre-announce had like 63.
19:34 [Coke] I have yet to see anything on /. doing a search.
19:35 pmichaud afk, errand
19:36 mathw [Coke]: It's possible they've not accepted it yet/at all
19:36 mathw I got some friends to upvote the submission
19:38 cosimo [Coke]: sorry, put my son to bed :)
19:38 cosimo [Coke]: thanks though
19:38 cosimo Cache::Memcached is on its way :)
19:38 [Coke] mathw: ah, would I have to be logged in to see it in the holding area, then?
19:38 [Coke] cosimo: no worries. enjoy.
19:38 mathw [Coke]: I believe so, yes
19:39 lue I've upvoted both stories so far.
19:39 lue [they're in the firehose, so members-only :/]
19:39 avuserow joined #perl6
19:39 [Coke] can we get the book from * in to the book downloads queue?
19:39 [Coke] (the book at http://github.com/perl6/book/downloads is dated last month.
19:39 moritz_ I can build a fresh copy, and upload it
19:40 moritz_ should be pretty much the same
19:40 [Coke] moritz_: or that works too.
19:40 * [Coke] hasn't had a slashdot ID since.. parrot 1.0? maybe?
19:40 [Coke] 0.1?
19:40 PerlJam moritz_++
19:40 moritz_ don't you have to pay for a slashdot ID?
19:40 tylercurtis lue: really? I was able to see masak's submission.
19:40 mathw not that I usually rate slashdot as a news source
19:41 [Coke] ah, that was 0.1.1,  and I didn't post it to /. whee.
19:41 mathw moritz_: no
19:41 mathw and I certainly don't rate slashdot as a discussion forum
19:41 lue tylercurtis: Hrm. In any case, it's in the 'firehose'
19:41 lue .oO(don't trust me. I just signed up for /. to post R*)
19:41 tylercurtis lue: although I couldn't find it via search. I don't remember how I did end up at it, though.
19:42 Su-Shee mathw: rate it as a publishing booster ;)
19:43 lue I wonder if it would be appropriate to submit R* a third time. [I've seen /. stories before were 'multiple people submitted']
19:44 sorear Good * #perl6
19:44 lue hello o/
19:46 levengli joined #perl6
19:47 levengli ahoy to one and all
19:47 jaldhar_ joined #perl6
19:48 pheuter joined #perl6
19:48 moritz_ can I upvote immediately on slashdot? or do I have to gain karma first?
19:49 levengli why is it that i have libicu4 ibtalled, but it's not recognized?
19:49 mathw I could do it...
19:49 sorear levengli: maybe you're missing libicu-dev
19:49 bjarneh joined #perl6
19:49 lue I just pressed the + symbol [while logged in, don't know if that matters]
19:49 levengli i think that i added that as well, i am trying a clean build
19:50 sorear did you install icu before or after Parrot/
19:52 moritz_ levengli: do you also have the development libraries installed?
19:52 moritz_ libicu4-dev or -devel or so?
19:52 levengli depends which parrot installation, but probably after
19:52 moritz_ (depends on your system)
19:52 moritz_ that's too late
19:52 levengli i should
19:52 moritz_ parrot needs libicu-dev at configuration time
19:53 moritz_ book uploaded
19:53 levengli it has it now :)
19:54 frobnitz joined #perl6
19:54 levengli does star install into /usr/bin?
19:54 aCiD2 levengli: no, the directory you untarred it to + /install
19:54 moritz_ it installs into wherever you say it to install
19:54 levengli how can i redirect it?
19:54 moritz_ can be changed with perl Configure.pl --prefix=/opt/Rakudo-Star/
19:55 moritz_ or whatever you want the prefix to be
19:55 moritz_ (don't use /usr/ for that :-)
19:55 moritz_ only your package manager should install stuff into /usr/bin
19:55 cxreg --prefix=/somewhere/easy/to/rm-rf/
19:55 aCiD2 gnu stow ftw
19:55 azawawi joined #perl6
19:55 levengli t/01-sanity/01-tap.................ok
19:55 levengli 2/10 skipped: various reasons
19:55 levengli i liked the reason
19:56 moritz_ if there are multi skip reasons within the same file, that's what you get
19:56 levengli now that it appears to work, make realclean?
19:57 moritz_ now that it appears to work, DON'T TOUCH IT ANYMORE!!! :-)
19:58 azawawi moritz_: hi, quick question about blizkost and git since I am new to github. I only sent the pull request to jnthn. Should I have sent to all of the committers?
19:59 lue moritz_: Really? Only your package manager should install to /usr/bin ? Huh.
19:59 moritz_ azawawi: doesn't hurt to send it to all
20:00 levengli moritz_: seriously, should/can i run make realclean?
20:00 moritz_ lue: at least if you prefer sanity
20:00 moritz_ levengli: I have no idea - I haven't experimented much with R* yet
20:01 aharoni joined #perl6
20:02 moritz_ levengli: I hope it works... just try it and see if it does
20:02 pheuter Where can i find a gentle introduction to perl6 and language features. I find the pdf in doc/ too verbose and not enough variety in examples. It also seems to assume familiarity with perl < 6
20:02 levengli ./perl6 -e 'say "hello"' still runs
20:02 levengli that's a good sign
20:03 moritz_ pheuter: it shouldn't assume familiarity with perl < 6 - only with programming languages in general
20:03 moritz_ anyway, if it's too verbose, http://perlcabal.org/syn/ might be terse enough :-)
20:03 moritz_ and see http://perl6.org/documentation/ for other docs
20:04 pheuter moritz_: great, appreciate it
20:04 PerlJam pheuter: There's also some perl 6 screencasts that are fairly gentle.
20:05 pheuter PerlJam: oh, cool
20:05 moritz_ PerlJam: uhm, if the book is too verbose, the screencasts certainly will be
20:05 levengli http://szabgab.com/talks/perl6/
20:05 azawawi moritz_: thx. sent :)
20:05 moritz_ (unless I misunderstood "verbose" in that context)
20:05 PerlJam pheuter: the screencasts are at http://szabgab.com/perl6.html#screencast
20:05 levengli Gabor (szabgab) is usually very clear
20:06 PerlJam moritz_: I'm happy to err on the side of giving too much information for learning Perl 6  :)
20:06 pheuter great, i should have enough to get started
20:07 tylercurtis pheuter: moritz_++'s Perl 5 to 6 articles, linked from the second url he mentioned, are excellent, even for people who aren't very familiar Perl 5 (like me).
20:08 tylercurtis pheuter: http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/perl-6-advent-calendar/ is also excellent.
20:09 PerlJam pheuter: no matter what reading/listening material you use, you'll want to hang out here and ask questions.
20:09 pheuter tylercurtis: nice. Hm, why is it that perl, despite its seemingly enormous libraries (cpan), robust regex, and relatively intuitive syntax, isn't very "popular" (and by popular, i mean you don't it used if most places where you look).
20:09 pheuter PerlJam: I was planning to ;)
20:09 avuserow Congrats on Rakudo Star, everyone. :)
20:10 kiffin Yeah, great job!!!
20:10 PerlJam pheuter: you just aren't looking in the right places or perhaps hard enough  :)
20:10 pheuter *you dont see it used in most places*
20:10 pheuter perhaps
20:10 kiffin a real milestone :)
20:10 pheuter but still, you hear more javascript lately
20:10 moritz_ pheuter: I think it's related to it being one of the first dynamic languages, which means that it did all the mistakes first that other language designers learned from
20:10 pheuter and javascript doesn't even have a standard
20:10 PerlJam pheuter: perl is used all over the place, but no one sits there and points it out.
20:11 tylercurtis pheuter: ECMAscript has a standard.
20:11 PerlJam pheuter: ecmascript
20:11 PerlJam tylercurtis: you're too quick for me.
20:11 pheuter right, but no one says ecmascript
20:11 kiffin left #perl6
20:12 pheuter many dont even know about it
20:12 moritz_ still, it's the same thing
20:12 tylercurtis pheuter: as do many of the web-browser-specific features.
20:13 tylercurtis pheuter: Perl 5 doesn't have a standard, either, by the way.
20:13 PerlJam pheuter: you know perl powers amazon.com, parts of the BBC, part of several large financial institutions, bioengineering projects, and the new duckduckgo search engine?
20:13 PerlJam :-)
20:13 levengli kudos on improving the doc! the pdf has really improved in the last 4 months
20:13 pheuter PerlJam: i knew about dukgo (awesome search engine btw). Didn't know about the rest
20:13 moritz_ and the Swedish pension system, for example
20:13 levengli of course, now i realize that i have to learn perl from scratch
20:13 levengli :(
20:13 moritz_ imdb, slashdot
20:14 moritz_ booking.com
20:14 moritz_ mobile.de
20:14 moritz_ all perl powered
20:14 pheuter btw, is cpan compatible with perl6/R*
20:14 aCiD2 moritz_: don't forget musicbrainz.org!
20:14 avuserow fwiw, $WORK is a Java shop, but Perl is used extensively internally for various sysadmin, building, and other automation
20:14 aCiD2 disclaimer: I might work for musicbrainz :)
20:15 timdemkowsky just played around with grammars and as i try to parse something, rakudo dies with 'Method 'TOP' not found for invocant of class ''
20:15 pheuter cpan had an enormous amount of libraries available for perl < 6. Does that mean we have to start over?
20:15 PerlJam aCiD2: or youporn!  :)
20:15 PerlJam pheuter: no.
20:15 moritz_ you can load some Perl 5 modules from Perl 6 with Blizkost, the p5-p6 bridge
20:15 aCiD2 haha, of course
20:15 tylercurtis moritz_: most of those websites also use ECMAscript. ;)
20:15 * aCiD2 would actually love to work for YouPorn at some point - some awesome tech and constarints to work with in!
20:15 aCiD2 and don't go making innuendo jokes about "tight constarints" now.
20:15 PerlJam pheuter: though to take advantage of Perl 6 features, some of those will be re-written
20:16 szbalint There are several 50M+/month unique user sites running Catalyst :)
20:16 pheuter PerlJam: mm
20:16 moritz_ ah right, szbalint++ works for a perl shop too :-)
20:16 moritz_ for which I nearly ended up working as well
20:16 szbalint yeah, one of those sites :P
20:16 perl5user joined #perl6
20:16 * lue just submitted news of R* to slashdot,  under 'rnddim'
20:17 levengli left #perl6
20:17 szbalint lue: http://slashdot.org/submission/1294860/Rakudo-Star---early-adopter-Perl-6-released
20:17 Mowah joined #perl6
20:17 pugssvn r31862 | moritz++ | [t/spec] test that s/// dies on unknown or non-sensical adverbs
20:17 tylercurtis pheuter: the data marshalling between Blizkost and Perl 6 could definitely use a lot of improvement ("use Data::Dumper:from<perl5>; Dumper(5)" works, but "use Data::Dumper:from<perl5>; Dumper([1, 2, 3])" does not).
20:18 PerlJam tylercurtis: what does the latter do?  just die?
20:18 pheuter tylercurtis: :P
20:18 shirtless joined #perl6
20:18 szbalint lue: although your submission seems to be "red" for some reason, so yours might get posted anyway :)
20:19 tylercurtis PerlJam: dies with "Sorry, we do not support marshaling most things to Perl 5 yet."
20:19 shirtless So I just read about rakudo star
20:19 shirtless does this mean perl6 is ready for noobs now?
20:19 lue szbalint: I know of the two stories before me (I submitted anyway) and I was surprised that my went from blue to red in just a few seconds.
20:20 davidfetter o/` video killed the rakudo star o/`
20:20 davidfetter radio*
20:20 szbalint lue: I see :)
20:20 * davidfetter wonders when szbalint will get on pl/parrot
20:20 moritz_ shirtless: everybody starts out as a Perl 6 noob
20:21 levengli joined #perl6
20:21 levengli is there a socket implementation in rakodu?
20:21 moritz_ yes
20:21 tylercurtis shirtless: as long as you don't try writing the firmware for a pacemaker or airplane in it yet. :)
20:21 __sri sadly no non blocking sockets :(
20:22 shirtless is the perl6 spec the best doc?
20:22 moritz_ shirtless: certainly not for beginners
20:22 levengli shirtless: assuming you understand perl6 grammer
20:22 shirtless What should I use?
20:22 moritz_ shirtless: the PDF shipped with R* is better to get you started
20:22 Cyrus shirtless: That would be a bit like trying to learn how to program your VCR by looking at the engineering blueprints.
20:22 shirtless moritz_: ok nice.
20:23 moritz_ shirtless: also follow the links on http://perl6.org/documentation/
20:23 moritz_ Cyrus: it's not that bad. The Perl 6 spec does include examples
20:23 levengli moriz_ care to elaborate?
20:23 Cyrus moritz_: Fair point.
20:23 moritz_ levengli: on what?
20:23 levengli is there a socket implementation in rakodu
20:23 levengli you said yes
20:23 moritz_ and so it is :-)
20:24 moritz_ just a sec, I'll get you a link
20:24 jnthn levengli: There's a couple of modules shipped with R* that use it too, I believe. :-)
20:24 moritz_ levengli: http://github.com/mberends/http-server-simple
20:24 moritz_ don't know if that's shipped
20:24 levengli let's start with the basic - udp raw socket.
20:25 levengli is that available in somthing shipped?
20:25 shirtless nice I feel comfortable using it now
20:25 levengli jnthn: which modules?
20:25 shirtless I tried it about 6 months ago and gave up because of cryptic error messages
20:26 shirtless but it's much easier to use now
20:26 moritz_ shirtless: we've worked a lot on those
20:26 shirtless It told me exactly what I did wrong when I tried to program in perl5 :D
20:26 shirtless or C, even;
20:26 PerlJam shirtless: rakudo isn't to that level of magic yet
20:26 moritz_ rakudo: while (my $x = <STDIN>) { }
20:26 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of <STDIN>; in Perl 6 please use $*IN.lines at line 22, near "<STDIN>) {"␤»
20:26 jnthn levengli: LWP::Simple does
20:26 PerlJam shirtless: for some things, yes; for most things, no.
20:26 tylercurtis rakudo: state $foo; # an example of recently improved error messages.
20:26 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤"state" not yet implemented at line 22, near "; # an exa"␤»
20:26 moritz_ std: while (my $x = <STDIN>) { }
20:27 p6eval std 31861: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤This appears to be Perl 5 code at /tmp/RQtTRbtwhI line 1:␤------> [32mwhile [33m⏏[31m(my $x = <STDIN>) { }[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 113m␤»
20:27 moritz_ should be possible to back-port
20:27 jnthn levengli: I thought we ahd a HTTP server in there too, but it appeasr not.
20:27 shirtless rakudo: for(;;) {}
20:27 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of C-style "for (;;)" loop; in Perl 6 please use "loop (;;)" at line 22, near "(;;) {}"␤»
20:27 levengli where is LWP::server in the layout?
20:28 Tene do we really need the (;;)?
20:28 shirtless PerlJam: I should be able to help with the error messages, as I'll be triggering many of them ;)
20:28 PerlJam jnthn: modules/mainline is  HTTP::Daemon
20:28 Tene rakudo: loop { say 1 }
20:28 jnthn PerlJam: Oh!
20:28 p6eval rakudo da16b5:
20:28 p6eval ..OUTPUT«1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1␤1�
20:28 jnthn PerlJam: That's...not obvious. :-)
20:29 avuserow rakudo: say $*VERSION
20:29 p6eval rakudo da16b5:  ( no output )
20:29 jnthn levengli: There's no LWP::Server module; there's HTTP::Daemon as PerlJam++ just pointed out, plus there's also the link moritz_ mentioend to HTTP::Server::Simple, but that wasn't in Rakudo *.
20:29 avuserow I forgot, what is the magic version variable?
20:29 supernovus I found an interesting bug. You cannot have named hash parameters with the is copy trait.
20:29 shirtless Where do you guys expect perl6 to shine compared to other currently popular languages?
20:29 moritz_ shirtless: regexes/grammars
20:29 PerlJam shirtless: grammars and oop
20:30 tylercurtis shirtless: Parsing(grammars/regexes). Type system. List manipulation.
20:30 moritz_ cool built-ins :-)
20:30 moritz_ golfing
20:30 moritz_ meta-ops
20:30 PerlJam awesome community
20:31 moritz_ dictator :-)
20:31 vboele for a sec i was wondering why perl uses shirtless
20:31 vboele i mean you never know it with perl, you guys got some weird naming conventions
20:31 vboele :P
20:31 moritz_ we've got PHASERS!
20:32 vboele exactly
20:32 lue I forgot about those :)
20:32 moritz_ and Rat, Cat, KitchenSink
20:32 PerlJam but we also bless things too
20:32 PerlJam (though these days, we keep the blessing happening behind the scenes)
20:32 pyrimidine isn't there a YOU_ARE_HERE?
20:32 PerlJam pyrimidine: aye
20:32 levengli i saw a zen operator
20:32 lue and (NYI) Bags! .oO(And a whole bunch of other funnily-named things)
20:32 shirtless thanks for answering my questions. I have one more i guess: where are the available modules for perl6 so I can start writing interesting code?
20:32 sorear we keep our phasers in banks
20:32 sorear modules.perl6.org
20:33 shirtless nice
20:33 jnthn lue: Bag actually is the proper name for that data structure. :P
20:33 moritz_ which reminds me of a very nice poll: http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=643317
20:33 shirtless thanks
20:33 lue sorry, Bag's :)
20:34 timdemkowsky somebody got further info on parsing with grammars?
20:34 moritz_ timdemkowsky: there's a whole chapter devoted to them in the book
20:34 sorear timdemkowsky: check out src/Perl6/Grammar.pm in the rakudo sources
20:34 PerlJam sorear: don't scare him! :)
20:34 cxreg where's TimToady today?
20:35 moritz_ cxreg: probably between Barcelona and Pisa somewhere
20:35 [Coke] haven't seen him for days. I'm guessing travel.
20:35 timdemkowsky moritz_: What book do you mean? That synopsys thing?
20:35 levengli short question before i leave: one of perl5 shortcoming was that you couldn't make an executable from it (and dont get be started on B)
20:35 moritz_ timdemkowsky: no, look for a .pdf
20:35 levengli any plans for perl6 on this?
20:35 timdemkowsky sorear: I'm gonna do this, thanks
20:35 moritz_ levengli: yes
20:35 tylercurtis timdemkowsky: the PDF in doc/ in the R* distributions.
20:35 levengli moritz_: ?
20:35 timdemkowsky moritz_: okay, i'll look around
20:36 timdemkowsky tylercurtis: thanks!
20:36 supernovus rakudo: sub orp ($a, $b, :%c is copy) { say "$a = $b"; }; orp("hi","there");
20:36 lue considering Perl 6 is a specification, I say it's entirely possible for there to be a compiler.
20:36 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤  in '!STORE' at line 4632:CORE.setting␤  in '!STORE' at line 4646:CORE.setting␤  in 'orp' at line 1:/tmp/Eoh61H6GDE␤  in 'orp' at line 22:/tmp/Eoh61H6GDE␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Eoh61H6GDE␤»
20:36 PerlJam lue: there are already several compilers!  :)
20:36 [Coke] levengli: expect a way to do that by the next Star, likely.
20:36 moritz_ levengli: yes, there are plans.
20:36 [Coke] (we're already doing basically that to generate the perl6 executable itself.)
20:37 levengli Stars a lightyears away from each other ;)
20:37 moritz_ well, most stars actually have twins
20:37 tylercurtis levengli: if you're willing to stick to a very small subset of Perl 6, you can compile it to native code RIGHT NOW. ;)
20:37 moritz_ which are pretty close
20:37 moritz_ (hint, hint)
20:37 pmichaud hugme:  tweet rakudoperl  windows .msi binary install for Rakudo Star 2010.07 now available:  http://github.com/rakudo/star/downloads #perl6 #rakudo
20:37 * hugme hugs pmichaud; tweet delivered
20:37 levengli don't you be hint hinting.... i just installled Start
20:37 levengli it's outdated already?
20:37 moritz_ not yet
20:37 _macdaddy joined #perl6
20:38 sorear If you are willing to stick to a slightly larget subset of Perl 6, you can compile to a .NET assembly
20:38 jnthn levengli: No, but we'll surely be working hard to make it so in a month time. ;-)
20:38 moritz_ rakudo: say 'ABC' ~~ /:i 'abc'/
20:38 PerlJam levengli: think of R* as the beginning of a journey
20:38 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«ABC␤»
20:38 tylercurtis niezca: say -42;
20:38 moritz_ that's something that's broken in R*, but fixed in the latested development version of Rakudo already
20:38 lue most planets have twins too (Earth has Mondas)
20:39 tylercurtis niecza: say -42;
20:39 p6eval niecza 64fc764: OUTPUT«Failed to resolve lexical &say in mainline at CodeGen.pm line 554.␤»
20:39 sorear the evalbot's niecza is broken
20:39 Kodi joined #perl6
20:39 levengli moritz_: why is the output ABC? or in other words, what did the ~~ do here?
20:39 sorear I'd love to know why
20:39 tylercurtis sorear: If that works, Niecza definitely has Bennu beaten. :)
20:39 PerlJam levengli: ~~ does smart matching
20:40 levengli that i know
20:40 Kodi moritz_: Can you hug^W add me to proto so I can add a module?
20:40 levengli so i would have assumed it would say the result of the ~~, why did it say ABC?
20:40 tylercurtis levengli: and the result of matching a Regex stringifies to the matching part of the string.
20:40 PerlJam levengli: because that *is* the result  (stringified)
20:40 levengli tylercurtis++ PerlJam++ thanks!
20:40 levengli i'm outahere
20:41 levengli left #perl6
20:41 moritz_ hugme: add kodi to proto
20:41 * hugme hugs kodi. Welcome to proto!
20:41 Kodi Thanks!
20:41 moritz_ Kodi: btw I'm not the only one who can do that, many people here have that power
20:41 moritz_ hugme: show proto
20:41 hugme moritz_: the following people have power over 'proto': P⁣erlJam, T⁣imToady, [⁣particle], c⁣olomon, j⁣nthn, m⁣asak, m⁣oritz_, p⁣michaud. URL: http://github.com/masak/proto/
20:42 sorear tylercurtis: I don't think I ever did get around to implementing prefix:<->
20:42 Kodi moritz_: Yeah, just thought I'd get a better response if I asked somebody as opposed to the channel at large.
20:42 sorear stefan@stefans:~/niecza$ ./niecza_eval -e 'sub prefix:<->($x) { 0 - $x }; say -42'
20:43 sorear -42
20:43 Kodi moritz_: Sorry, my GitHub username is "KodiB".
20:43 * sorear quickly adds to the setting
20:43 moritz_ hugme: add KodiB to proto
20:43 * hugme hugs KodiB. Welcome to proto!
20:43 shirtless Perl6 has no support for opening directories yet or am I missing something?
20:43 tylercurtis sorear: You've definitely got Bennu beat. :)
20:43 moritz_ shirtless: .say for dir('.')
20:43 Kodi Cool.
20:44 shirtless moritz_: where can I find documentation for that? I looked for perl6 file io doc and found not much. Perhaps I should have looked for system doc or something
20:44 sorear moritz_: do you keep build logs?  I'd be interested in knowing why niecza doesn't seem to generate the setting
20:44 moritz_ shirtless: no, it's not properly documented yet :(
20:44 dalek niecza: fd10c88 | sorear++ | CodeGen.pm:
20:44 dalek niecza: Make clear that failure to resolve is a bug indicator
20:44 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/fd10c88ad06daa091feb2fb49cc84ed3bada22f5
20:44 moritz_ shirtless: not your fault
20:44 shirtless moritz_: ok i'll see if I can find the code and document it
20:45 whee moritz_: are documentation needs in the bug tracker?
20:45 moritz_ whee: don't think so
20:46 lue I'm wondering. If I make a class as a module, how do I make it so you import it as A::B ( use A::B ) but not start doing A::B.new() and such?
20:46 moritz_ sorear: just a sec...
20:46 moritz_ lue: by making it a module, not a class
20:46 moritz_ sorear: http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/niecza.log
20:48 sorear What am I looking at the output of?
20:49 lue something like    module A::B; class C {...}    ?
20:50 tylercurtis lue: what exactly are you trying to do?
20:50 pmichaud time to see if I can get a better nap.  :-)
20:50 shirtless wow, --gen-parrot
20:50 shirtless nice
20:50 pmichaud bbiaw
20:50 supernovus wtf... Could not find sub &require ...
20:50 dalek niecza: 01680b9 | sorear++ |  (2 files):
20:50 dalek niecza: Add prefix:<-> to the setting tylercurtis++
20:50 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/01680b9ad22311669c80de7662ad822a287b2f46
20:50 sorear module A; class B is export { }   |||   use A;  B.new   # this works in niecza
20:51 moritz_ sorear: git pull
20:51 moritz_ make
20:51 moritz_ make
20:51 sorear I don't have module A::B quit working yet
20:51 sorear moritz_: in a loop?
20:51 moritz_ sorear: executed by crontab every 2 hours
20:51 moritz_ so "yes"
20:51 lue I want to create a class that you import as  Temporal::Hextime, yet I also want to avoid having to say Temporal::Hextime.new() and such. [maybe I should look at more modules for help]
20:52 tylercurtis supernovus: I don't think Rakudo implements require yet.
20:52 nomad1 left #perl6
20:52 PerlJam lue: what do you want to say instead of "Temporal::Hextime.new()"
20:52 PerlJam ?
20:52 * supernovus smashes head on desk.
20:52 masak joined #perl6
20:52 masak \o/
20:52 timbunce joined #perl6
20:52 PerlJam lue: you just want to import subs?
20:52 jnthn masak! \o/
20:52 moritz_ sub new_ht() is export { Temporal::Hextime.new() }
20:52 supernovus Okay, I am abandoning porting this to master for now. Alpha must remain around for a while yet it appears.
20:52 masak jnthn! \o/
20:52 sorear masak!
20:53 moritz_ supernovus: just implement require - all the logic is already there
20:53 [Coke] moritz_: not everyone wants to be a core hacker.
20:53 masak I understand there's a party in here tonight :)
20:53 [Coke] Which I can attest to as a parrot user. Sometimes you just want it to (*@#&$ work. =-)
20:53 tylercurtis lue: Temporal/Hextime.pm -- "class HT {...}", somescript.p6 -- "use Temporal::Hextime; HT.new;" probably works like I think you want it to.
20:53 moritz_ [Coke]: I fear that's true; but sometimes it works to lure somebody :-)
20:54 [Coke] moritz_: oh, absolutely. keep trying. =-)
20:54 supernovus moritz_: I may do that. I just have to figure out how to make runtime importation work... oh, and learn a lot more about the guts of Rakudo :-)
20:54 lue hai masak o/
20:54 [Coke] moritz_: enjoy your tickets. ;)
20:54 jnthn masak: Got your party hat?
20:54 jnthn I hope you didn't bring sill to the party. :P
20:54 masak party hat --> Ĉarl Masak
20:54 lue so I'll only get it by setting up folders? Hrm.
20:55 jnthn Wow, which language has non-upside-down hats? :-)
20:55 * Tene also ⇒ T̂ene
20:55 masak jnthn: Esperanto... :)
20:55 moritz_ rakudo: (1..10).map({ .say; $_ }).[3]
20:55 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤»
20:55 masak jnthn: ĉĝĵĥŝŭ
20:56 jnthn masak: What does that word mean?
20:56 shirtless Where in the perl6 source are subroutines implemented? Just a starting point is enough
20:56 tylercurtis lue: I'm fairly sure that's how module names in use get mapped to files.
20:56 masak *lol*
20:56 masak jnthn: no, just a list of the ASCII-unfriendly letters.
20:56 shirtless s/perl6/rakudo/
20:56 moritz_ shirtless: which part of subroutines? :-)
20:56 sorear shirtless: very spread out, what aspect do you want?
20:56 lue Ni estas... # I need to learn my esperanto :(
20:57 masak shirtless: parsing, actions, or runtime?
20:57 sorear moritz_: I am ... stuck trying to figure out how your make is managing to output that.
20:57 shirtless sorear: I just want to know for now where I can go to find out if something is there or not
20:57 shirtless without trying to use it
20:57 moritz_ there's the dispatcher, the signature binder, the parser, some thing which is responsible for calling it...
20:57 masak lue: Ni estas tre ĝojaj pro la eldono de Rakudo Star! \o/
20:57 shirtless I'll do some exploring before I bombard with harder questions
20:57 masak shirtless++
20:57 moritz_ shirtless: a reasonable first approximation is to see if things parsed
20:57 tylercurtis shirtless: "perl6 -e" :)
20:57 moritz_ shirtless: src/Perl6/Grammar.pm is the place to look at, for that
20:58 shirtless Ok thanks for the tips guys
20:58 moritz_ some meaningless stats: in the last few days, we had less than 90 unique active nicks in here (per day) - today it's 144 already
20:58 * lue must remember what he found out when he first came: #perl6 can even help you with learning Esperanto :)
20:59 jnthn lue: And probably quite a few other langauges too. Sometimes, people even get Perl 6 help here. :-)
20:59 moritz_ sorear: anything I can do to help you figure it out?
21:00 sorear moritz_: are there any modified-per-git-status files?
21:00 jnthn Wow. The Windows installer is already into a 3-figure number of downloads.
21:00 sorear it's very intriguing that it seems to have last updated the p6eval display revision on a mid-revactor version
21:00 sorear Jun23 no less
21:01 moritz_ just untracked files, no modified files
21:01 moritz_ should I try a git clean -xdf, and run make again?
21:01 sorear What are the untracked files?
21:01 lue .oO(jnthn: really? Tell me more of those ancient times when #perl6 discussion were.... 'relevant'!)
21:02 sorear I have all the normal build detritus in .gitignored alread
21:02 moritz_ Program.{cs,exe]
21:02 moritz_ Setting.dll{,.so}
21:02 moritz_ setting_ast.store
21:03 sorear oh yes, *old* build detritus
21:03 sorear I wonder if having those files around would break the build
21:04 * moritz_ git-cleans forcefully
21:04 * sorear tests it
21:04 moritz_ btw is it kosher to run parallel make?
21:05 timdemkowsky i compiled with -j3 and it works
21:05 sorear It should be, but I think all of my rules are part of a single dependency chain anyway
21:05 moritz_ damn, my YAPC::EU talk is now iin parallel with mberends' DB talk
21:05 moritz_ timdemkowsky: I'm talking about niecza right now, not rakudo :-)
21:05 [Coke] should hit 1K downloads of rakudo today.
21:05 timdemkowsky moritz_: whoops, i should read everything before i write - sorry!
21:05 moritz_ timdemkowsky: no problem
21:09 moritz_ m:g// is harder than I anticipated
21:09 Tene moritz_: make sure it's lazy, too!
21:09 moritz_ actually it's not the modifier that is hard - it's turning m// into a call that's hard
21:10 moritz_ Tene: once the calling works, it'll be as lazy as Cool.match
21:11 mscha joined #perl6
21:12 shirtless joined #perl6
21:12 sorear moritz_: does this mean that Regex.ACCEPTS and/or Regex.Bool is going away?
21:13 moritz_ sorear: no
21:13 moritz_ sorear: it's just that S05 says rx/.../ always returns a regex, and m/../ always executes it straight away
21:14 moritz_ so for rx/.../, you still need .Bool and .ACCEPTS
21:14 sorear What does /../ do?
21:14 moritz_ it's magic :-)
21:14 moritz_ I guess it actually does the same as rx/.../
21:14 PerlJam magic == context dependent
21:14 moritz_ under the hood
21:15 bjarneh joined #perl6
21:16 masak can junctions both autothread and be lazy? http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/cv1ph/rakudo_star_a_useful_usable_early_adopter/c0vhx7k
21:17 moritz_ they can short-circuit, which is a form of laziness
21:17 * moritz_ replies
21:17 cxreg but they are eager, in that you can't have infinite ones
21:18 cxreg (today
21:19 moritz_ you'd need assumptions and quite some knowledge to allow infinite jucntions
21:19 supernovus Hmm, it appears that roles don't inherit exported methods from modules imported using "use".
21:19 cosimo rakudo: my $h='127.0.0.1:11211'; if $h ~~ m/ <ip> = (.*) \: <port> = (\d+) / { say $ip, $port }
21:19 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "if $h ~~ m"␤»
21:20 moritz_ supernovus: you can't export methods like that. if you write 'is export' on a method, it actually exports a sub, not a method
21:20 cosimo rakudo: my $h='127.0.0.1:11211'; if $h ~~ / <ip> = (.*) \: <port> = (\d+) / { say $ip, $port }
21:20 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "if $h ~~ /"␤»
21:20 moritz_ supernovus: if you want to compose methods, use roles instead
21:20 supernovus err, sorry, I mean sub.
21:20 rcfox joined #perl6
21:20 cosimo rakudo: my $h='127.0.0.1:11211'; if $h ~~ /^ <ip>=(.*) \: <port>=(\d+) $/ { say $ip, $port }
21:20 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "if $h ~~ /"␤»
21:21 [Coke] cosimo: $<ip>=()
21:21 rcfox Hey guys, I was looking at http://perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6 and there was one statement that seemed kind of odd: In fact you are discouraged from using parenthesis around the conditions.
21:21 pugssvn r31863 | Kodi++ | [t/spec] Added tests for RT #76804.
21:21 moritz_ rcfox: why is that odd?
21:22 Kodi rcfox: It looks ugly once you're used to no parentheses.
21:22 drbean joined #perl6
21:22 moritz_ Kodi: there's a deeper reason for that statement too
21:22 supernovus I have a role that has several methods in it that are used by every plugin in my system. There are some other modules that export subs that are used by the methods in the role. However, placing the "use" statement in the role, it claims that it could not find the subs. If I place it in the class implementing the role, it works, but that rather defeats the purpose of roles, if each class had to import modules to be used by the role
21:22 supernovus ...
21:22 moritz_ in Perl 6, every identifier that's followed parenthesis is parsed as a function call
21:22 rcfox moritz_: What is the rationale then?
21:22 shirtless joined #perl6
21:22 cxreg moritz_: wasn't Infinite Junction in one of douglas adams' books? :)
21:22 moritz_ so if you write  for(1..3) { ... } # without space between 'for' and '('
21:22 moritz_ it's a function call
21:23 moritz_ and you're screwed
21:23 Kodi moritz_: Ah.
21:23 shirtless I just discovered that I am going to have to use my good computer for perl6
21:23 shirtless heh
21:23 moritz_ so it's best just to omit them
21:23 [Coke] shirtless: I hear that. :P
21:23 rcfox Is Perl 6 parseable with BNF?
21:23 [Coke] I was trying to run some profiling code against perl6 on my netbook. ;)
21:23 timbunce shirtless: compiling modules to .pir is a big help
21:23 moritz_ supernovus: that's a weird bug, and worth submitting
21:23 [Coke] rcfox: ... I'm not sure anyone has tried.
21:23 [Coke] but it's parsable with perl6.
21:23 moritz_ supernovus: especially if you can fit it into a small example
21:24 moritz_ rcfox: it's not
21:24 supernovus I'll see what I can do
21:24 shirtless timbunce: it looked like that's what parrot was doing when it caused me to hit swap on my p4, which is a pile of trash anyway.. it's only got 256 mb ram
21:24 [Coke] shirtless: oof.
21:24 moritz_ yea, that's a bit small
21:24 tylercurtis rcfox: maybe if you don't care about extensible syntax.
21:24 shirtless my other computer is decent it has 3gb ram
21:24 [Coke] rakudo is happier with at /least/ a gig.
21:24 shirtless so i should be ok
21:24 moritz_ 1G of memory should be availble for compiling rakudo
21:25 [Coke] we'll try to work on that, but yah.
21:25 rcfox I was just wondering. I remember some hoopla about Perl 5 not being properly parsable.
21:25 shirtless i wouldn't bother, just wait for people to get more ram :d
21:26 lue would 384 MiB RAM be enough ?
21:26 BinGOs perhaps it could have been mentioned in the README that a perl5 with multi was required for blizkost-install
21:26 moritz_ rcfox: it's a similar story with Perl 6
21:26 shirtless lue: no
21:27 shirtless lue: I just tried with similar.. it's not gonna happen ;)
21:27 shirtless I mean it will, but it will hit your swap partition and probably set fire to your hard drive.
21:28 bjarneh left #perl6
21:28 rcfox moritz_: I guess that's a function of it being a dynamic language.
21:29 lue I still can't use my own computer then :/
21:29 masak we finally made Slashdot: http://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/07/29/2046242/Perl-6-Early-With-Rakudo-Star?art_pos=1
21:29 shirtless lue: what country are you in?
21:30 szbalint and I've got mod points .)
21:30 sorear rcfox: People who don't understand the true Scotsman fallacy are always going to make ridiculous claims.  Ignore them.
21:31 supernovus moritz_: Gah, I actually think it has more to do with my dirty cheap subroutine replacement for require than it does with classes. I tried an example that "use MyClass" and it works, but if I "require 'MyClass.pm'" it does not work.
21:31 Lorn rakudo: say "foo"
21:31 jnthn masak: "from the if-you-call-that-early dept."
21:31 p6eval rakudo da16b5: OUTPUT«foo␤»
21:31 masak jnthn: pretty inevitable. :)
21:31 moritz_ supernovus: ah, okk
21:32 * moritz_ -> sleep
21:32 Getty joined #perl6
21:32 jnthn masak: :)
21:32 lue masak: yaaay! \o/
21:33 davewood joined #perl6
21:33 masak get in there and flap at the trolls with your colorful butterfly wings! :)
21:34 lue