Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-08-26

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:13 pugssvn r32106 | lwall++ | [S05] add explicit definitions of \h and \v
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00:21 gfldex std: sub i\ has\ a\ \space(){ say 'flap ' xx 3 }; i\ has\ a\ \space;
00:21 p6eval std 32105: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Malformed block at /tmp/ibthVZEnLa line 1:␤------> [32msub i\ [33m⏏[31mhas\ a\ \space(){ say 'flap ' xx 3 }; i\[0m␤    expecting any of:␤   new name to be defined␤   routine_def␤      trait␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
00:21 gfldex std: sub i\ has\ a\ space(){ say 'flap ' xx 3 }; i\ has\ a\ \space;
00:22 TimToady you can't just use unspace any old where; only where the difference between '' and ' ' is significant
00:22 p6eval std 32105: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Malformed block at /tmp/nkEgeJ913C line 1:␤------> [32msub i\ [33m⏏[31mhas\ a\ space(){ say 'flap ' xx 3 }; i\ [0m␤    expecting any of:␤   new name to be defined␤   routine_def␤      trait␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
00:22 gfldex i c
00:22 TimToady such as before postfixes
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00:23 TimToady and it won't glue tokens together for you
00:25 gfldex how about uncommon unicode space(-likes)?
00:25 TimToady all whitespace is equivalent that way, except for things explicitly tied to line transitions
00:27 gfldex I was thinking about poems. A space that isn't would be handy. :)
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01:48 colomon phenny: tell patrickas See http://gist.github.com/550633 for a sketch more along the lines of what I was thinking.  WARNING: code is untested, and almost certainly contains off-by-one errors and possibly boolean logic errors.
01:48 phenny colomon: I'll pass that on when patrickas is around.
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02:13 colomon rakudo: my $a = "this is a test"; say $a.trans("t" => "z");
02:13 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«zhis is a zesz␤»
02:13 colomon rakudo: my $a = "this is a test"; $a .= chomp; say $a.trans("t" => "z");
02:13 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«too few positional arguments: 2 passed, 3 (or more) expected␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/hF6jBkpSbt␤»
02:13 colomon bingo.
02:14 colomon rakudo: my $a = "this is a test"; $a .= chomp; say $a.PARROT
02:15 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«String␤»
02:15 colomon rakudo: my $a = "this is a test"; say $a.PARROT
02:15 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«Perl6Scalar->Str␤»
02:16 colomon rakudo: my $a = "this is a test"; $a .= chomp; say (~$a).PARROT
02:16 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«Str␤»
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02:19 s_mosher rakudo: [+] 1, 1|1, 1, 1|1, 1
02:19 p6eval rakudo 3a339e:  ( no output )
02:19 s_mosher rakudo: say([+] 1, 1|1, 1, 1|1, 1)
02:19 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«any(any(5))␤»
02:20 s_mosher seems... suboptimal
02:20 s_mosher does that create a penalty later?
02:24 colomon I'm sad to say I have no clue.
02:25 colomon not sure anyone does, we're still trying to figure out what takes time / memory in Rakudo.
02:39 s_mosher yeah, I have no idea whether any(any(foo)) is much slower than any(foo)
02:40 s_mosher I'm just afraid of the case where the reduction creates a very complicated junction to express something very simple
02:41 s_mosher ideally, should that even reduce to a junction at all?
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02:45 colomon I'm not well-versed enough in junctions to say.  It looks silly to me, but I don't know if there's a good reason for it.
02:47 plobsing s_mosher: sure it costs a bit, but is it worth the effort to detect the special 1 element case, or the effort to detect the same-junction-within-a-junction case, or whether it is even allowed at all? If junctions become a big part of perl 6 programming (beyond simple checks, short expressions, etc), probably; otherwise probably not.
02:47 colomon star: say 1|1
02:47 p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«any(1)␤»
02:47 plobsing rakudo: say ([+] 1, (2|1), 1, (1^2), 1)
02:47 s_mosher somehow I bet that's a common situation
02:47 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«any(one(6, 7), one(5, 6))␤»
02:49 s_mosher plobsing, yes.. pragmatics with respect to junctions is sort of bewildering to me
02:49 plobsing do junctions have an equivalent to .eager maybe?
02:49 s_mosher rakudo: my $a = sub ($a) {say $a}; $a(any(any(5,5), any(5,5)))
02:49 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«5␤5␤»
02:50 tylercurtis rakudo: say any(1, 2).list.perl # I wonder if you can do this.
02:50 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«any(1, 2)␤»
02:50 s_mosher that gets me every time, semantically it's flattened, but only once
02:50 tylercurtis It's supposed to autothread multiple times, if I correctly understand the spec.
02:52 tylercurtis So $a(any(any(5, 5), any(5, 5))) should be the same as any(any($a(5), $a(5)), any($a(5), $a(5))), I think.
02:52 * tylercurtis looks for the part of the spec that convinced him of that.
02:53 s_mosher I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case, but it looks like rakudo at least does some optimization there
02:53 s_mosher I'm already convinced that junctions+side effects is madness
02:54 s_mosher oh I see what's going on
02:55 s_mosher rakudo: my $z = any(5,5) ; my $a = sub ($a) {say $a}; $a(any($z,$z))
02:56 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«5␤»
02:58 s_mosher wait, nvm, $z is already any(5) by then
02:59 tylercurtis rakudo: say any(any(1, 2), any(3, 4))
02:59 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«any(any(1, 2), any(3, 4))␤»
03:00 s_mosher rakudo: my $z = any(5,6) ; my $a = sub ($a) {say $a}; $a(any($z,$z))
03:00 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«5␤6␤»
03:00 tylercurtis rakudo: &say(any(any(1, 2), any(3, 4)))
03:00 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«any(any(1, 2), any(3, 4))␤»
03:00 tylercurtis rakudo: say.(any(any(1, 2), any(3, 4)))
03:00 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«␤invoke() not implemented in class 'Boolean'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/AIpBLPIlZr␤»
03:00 tylercurtis rakudo: &say.(any(any(1, 2), any(3, 4)))
03:00 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«any(any(1, 2), any(3, 4))␤»
03:01 tylercurtis rakudo: my &a = -> $a { say $a }; a any(any(1, 2), any(3, 4))
03:01 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«any(any(1, 2), any(3, 4))␤»
03:01 tylercurtis rakudo: my &a = sub ($a) { say $a }; a any(any(1, 2), any(3, 4))
03:01 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤»
03:02 * tylercurtis understands now.
03:03 tylercurtis Sorry about the p6eval spam everyone.
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03:13 colomon tylercurtis++
03:13 tylercurtis colomon?
03:14 colomon I approve heartily of working things out with p6eval.
03:14 colomon particularly when nothing much else is going on around here.
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03:19 tylercurtis rakudo: multi foo(:$a) { say (:$a) }; multi foo(:$b) { say (:$b) }; foo :a<1>; foo :b<2>
03:19 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«a  1␤b      2␤»
03:19 tylercurtis That is very nice.
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03:40 tylercurtis Is there a way to, given a Method, object, find the class?
03:42 tylercurtis I'm pretty sure it would be trivial to do trait_mod:<handles>(Method $m, $expr) if so.
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03:47 lue how does Test.pm update that "status bar" at the bottom of the output when you run things like 'make spectest'?
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04:10 tylercurtis TimToady: are the "class traits" referred to in S12:2170 actually traits or are they attributes of ClassHOW? E.g., can I do "class A is author('Tyler Curtis') { }" or "class A is parents([B]) is roles(E, F, G) { }"
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04:19 TimToady a trait is just a declaration syntax.  it can send its info anywhere that makes sense
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04:21 Tene int is the native type of Int, so therefore any must be the native type of Any. ;)
04:21 tylercurtis So, "is parents(...)" is valid?
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04:24 tylercurtis And if so, does it add or replace existing parents?
04:25 TimToady that's up to whoever defines the trait
04:27 tylercurtis With the standard Perl 6 MOP, should it add or replace existing parents?
04:27 TimToady if the standard Perl 6 MOP, there is no such trait, as far as I know.
04:27 TimToady only a method
04:28 TimToady there is no standard behavior for traits.  they can do anything they jolly well please
04:28 tylercurtis It's one of the "class traits" mentioned in S12 I was asking about.
04:29 TimToady that's not using traits in the 'is foo' sense, I think
04:30 tylercurtis I didn't think so. :) Thanks for clearing that up for me.
04:31 TimToady a lot of 'is foo' traits do end up setting an attribute .foo somewhere, but there's no guarantee
04:32 TimToady and certainly that list of "traits" predates most of the MOP work in Perl, including Moose
04:33 TimToady that was in there pretty much that way in, say, 2004
04:33 TimToady or so
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04:35 tylercurtis Good to know.
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04:59 TimToady Hah! Look at the second Perl 6 solution in http://rosettacode.org/wiki/​Find_the_missing_permutation
05:03 tylercurtis Wow.
05:04 TimToady 'course, it wouldn't work if they wanted two missing permutations...
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06:27 sorear hello #perl6
06:29 sorear s_mosher: IMO, junctions don't actually exist at runtime.  They're still in the "not 100% understood" bracket, though they work fairly well in rakudo
06:30 sorear tylercurtis: Did you have some specific context in "wow niecza has threads" in mind?
06:31 tylercurtis sorear: Not really. I just saw Threads.pm6 and played with it a bit.
06:32 sorear It would probably be a lot better with bindings to Monitor.pulse and Monitor.wait
06:32 guidj0s .part
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06:57 sorear linux-- # typo in niecza caused infinite recursion and firefox-bin got the short end of the overcommit
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07:14 sorear std: my $foo; &$foo;
07:14 p6eval std 32106: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 119m␤»
07:14 sorear TimToady: What does the coercion &$foo do?
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07:35 sorear yay!  I finally found the "Unicode white space" definition
07:36 moritz_ good morning
07:43 TiMBuS rakudo: say defined my @a
07:44 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«1␤»
07:45 TiMBuS rakudo: say defined my Array $a
07:45 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«0␤»
07:46 moritz_ (830 out of 1001 lines of mandelbrot rendered. still below 200M virt. mem.)
07:46 sorear moritz_: how many hours?
07:47 moritz_ sorear: 13 elapsed
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08:10 moritz_ wow, http://www.selfseo.com/check_google_pagerank.php says that www.perl6.org has a pagerank of 7
08:11 sorear out of?
08:11 moritz_ 10 (log scale)
08:11 * sorear isn't suprised
08:12 moritz_ www.perl.org has 8
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08:13 pugssvn r32107 | azawawi++ | [std_hilite] Fixed broken STD highlighter
08:15 dalek niecza: 198aa14 | sorear++ | src/RxOp.pm:
08:15 dalek niecza: Fix infinite recursion in || in methods
08:15 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/1​98aa142d63f1cdebcfd25969b0a3200a1b62070
08:15 dalek niecza: 4d0f5db | sorear++ | / (2 files):
08:15 dalek niecza: Implement contextualizing @$foo syntax
08:15 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4​d0f5db856b43918c857cdd2832569bfd18ac2c0
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08:23 tadzik g'morning
08:23 moritz_ niecza now has another feature that rakudo lacks
08:23 moritz_ @$foo
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08:41 sorear rakudo lacks that?
08:41 sorear it took like 10 minutes to add
08:42 moritz_ I kinda guess jnthn++ could add it in 10 minutes too
08:43 sorear why only jnthn?
08:43 sorear it's nothing more than funny syntax for a method call
08:44 moritz_ because I alwys screw up PAST :-)
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08:57 sorear colomon: what is 'SF'?
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09:15 dalek nqp-rx: 83747bd | bacek++ | / (2 files):
09:15 dalek nqp-rx: Don't put named (slurpy) parameters into multi-signature. Closes TT #1736
09:15 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/8​3747bda3568206f99bba133fde76d5177ce7cb1
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09:22 smash_ mornin'
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09:37 tadzik oh hai
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09:44 dalek niecza: ebb3fc7 | sorear++ | src/RxOp.pm:
09:44 dalek niecza: Fix sharing bug in SeqAlt
09:44 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e​bb3fc7de684f39685036c92f1c71ea3e587668b
09:44 dalek niecza: a8f84cb | sorear++ | / (6 files):
09:44 dalek niecza: Implement <before> and family
09:44 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a​8f84cbac0f263fbfa49b22aa244fab41fffdf66
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09:48 sorear Is there any difference between my $x = foo; and my ($x) = foo; in perl 6?
09:49 * sorear out.
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09:59 tadzik yayitsmasak!
09:59 masak \o/
09:59 snarkyboojum masak o/
09:59 moritz_ ohlol
09:59 masak hi, snarkyboojum, tadzik, moritz_
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10:00 * snarkyboojum is chatting on his n900 #w00t
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10:02 moritz_ (928/1001 rows mandelbrot calculated, 15h elapsed)
10:03 snarkyboojum woah :)
10:05 tadzik that's a hell of a benchmark :)
10:05 snarkyboojum or benchmark hell :)
10:08 moritz_ more of a celebration that The Big Memory Leak is gone
10:08 moritz_ afk
10:08 snarkyboojum moritz_, which codebase?
10:09 moritz_ snarkyboojum: rakudo
10:09 snarkyboojum i.e. mandlebrot code?
10:09 moritz_ github/colomon/mandelbrot
10:10 snarkyboojum thanks
10:10 moritz_ really afk
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10:31 lestrrat is now known as lest_away
10:38 colomon I've been meaning to sit down and write a version of mandelbrot which uses C-style loops, just to see how much faster it is.
10:43 masak as in loop (my $i = 0; $i < MAX; ++$i) ?
10:45 colomon yes
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10:55 masak it will be much faster.
10:55 masak as I understand it, there's a slowdown exponential on the depth of iterator loops.
10:58 bbkr rakudo: $_ = ""; say s:g/{ $_ = 1 }/X/ # another weird case. code is doing nothing useful. but assigning to $_ in {} block multiplies substitutions. why? a bug?
10:59 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«X1X␤»
10:59 colomon "slowdown exponential"?
10:59 colomon for sure, iterators are slower than they should be.
10:59 masak colomon: 'slowdown (which is) exponential'
11:00 masak colomon: tried to cram too much into that sentence
11:00 colomon literally exponential on the depth?
11:00 masak colomon: well, consider what happens.
11:00 masak colomon: each single iteration causes a slowdown.
11:01 masak colomon: the inner loops are iterated some N times for each outer loop iteration.
11:01 masak ad nauseam.
11:02 colomon ah, I see what you're saying, I think.
11:02 masak rakudo: for 1..4 { print "X"; for 1..4 { print "Y" } }
11:02 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«XYYYYXYYYYXYYYYXYYYY»
11:02 masak that's all I'm saying, really.
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11:16 masak rakudo: for 1..4 { print "X"; for 1..4 { print "Y"; for 1..4 { print "Z" } } }
11:16 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«XYZZZZYZZZZYZZZZYZZZZXYZZZZYZZZZYZZZZYZ​ZZZXYZZZZYZZZZYZZZZYZZZZXYZZZZYZZZZYZZZZYZZZZ»
11:16 masak since the slowdown occurs right before a letter is printed (in the iteration of the loop), it's exponential compared to the depth of nested loops.
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11:27 masak TimToady: in that rosettacode solution with the missing permutation, you do infix:<~^> on Str. doesn't that presuppose that these Str objects know their byte encoding? in which situations can this be assumed?
11:28 masak rakudo: say "ABC" ~^ "BCC"
11:30 * masak notices that ~| ~& ~^ are defined for arbitrary scalars in Rakudo
11:30 masak I didn't see this during my GSoC grant.
11:30 masak I think we need to define more clearly here what's allowed and what's not.
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11:33 x3nU there's still no r*? ;f
11:34 masak x3nU: there's one from last month.
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11:35 x3nU yeah, i know but i was thinking about 2010.08
11:36 masak aye. I think we're all expectantly waiting for that one.
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11:44 moritz_ \o/ mandelbrot finished
11:46 masak \o/
11:46 gfldex \o/
11:47 masak what would the following script print? sub x($y) { class A { method foo { say $y } } }; A.foo; x(1); A.foo; x(2); A.foo
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11:48 moritz_ Any\nAny\nAny\n
11:48 masak in other words, a class doesn't rebind when its surrounding lexpad is renewed.
11:49 moritz_ at the time A.foo is called, the outer $y never has a defined value
11:49 masak huh? so putting the A.foo call inside &x changes the picture?
11:50 moritz_ I'd think so
11:50 masak that's... insane.
11:50 moritz_ not quite
11:50 moritz_ hm
11:50 moritz_ or maybe it is
11:50 masak I maintain that it is.
11:50 moritz_ rakudo: sub x($y) { class A { method foo { say $y } } }; A.foo; x(1); A.foo; x(2); A.foo
11:50 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«Lexical '$y' not found␤  in 'A::foo' at line 22:/tmp/1Y0Vldqy4T␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/1Y0Vldqy4T␤»
11:50 moritz_ I haven't spent as much thought on it as you
11:51 masak Rakudo is most certainly wrong in this respect.
11:51 moritz_ it is
11:51 moritz_ http://perlgeek.de/images/blog/mandel-color.png btw
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11:51 masak pretty.
11:53 tadzik Perl 6 did this?
11:53 masak as a contrast, I think this would print "Any()\n1\n2": sub x($y) { our sub a { say $y } }; a; x(1); a; x(2); a
11:53 moritz_ tadzik: yes
11:53 moritz_ tadzik: blog post will be up soon
11:54 masak moritz_++
11:54 masak rakudo: sub x($y) { our sub a { say $y } }; a; x(1); a; x(2); a
11:54 tadzik awesome!
11:54 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in type()␤  in 'a' at line 22:/tmp/QS_20Kzh4v␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/QS_20Kzh4v␤»
11:54 tadzik moritz_++ colomon++
11:54 masak 's been RT's already.
11:54 masak pugs: sub x($y) { our sub a { say $y } }; a; x(1); a; x(2); a
11:54 lest_away is now known as lestrrat
11:54 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«␤␤␤»
11:54 masak Pugs--
11:54 masak niecza: sub x($y) { our sub a { say $y } }; a; x(1); a; x(2); a
11:54 p6eval niecza a8f84cb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Package subs NYI at /tmp/QleWs2xAZJ line 1:␤------> [32msub x($y) { our sub a { say $y } [33m⏏[31m}; a; x(1); a; x(2); a[0m␤Potential difficulties:␤  &a is declared but not used at /tmp/QleWs2xAZJ line 1:␤------> [32msub x($y) { our sub
11:54 p6eval ..a[33m⏏[…
11:55 moritz_ lollipop... erm.. you know, http://github.com/colomon/mandelbrot/
11:55 moritz_ niecza++
11:55 masak I'm thinking about how to add this to Yapsi.
11:56 moritz_ erm, wrong url
11:56 moritz_ http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-​6/rakudo-memory-leaks.writeback
11:56 masak \o/ moritz_++
11:57 masak this looks like a nice read: http://lamp.epfl.ch/~odersk​y/blogs/isscalacomplex.html
11:59 tadzik this blog post is awesome
12:00 szbalint it has shiny pictures
12:00 szbalint of course it's awesome!
12:01 masak if there's something I've learned while blogging, it's that shiny pictures make people pay attention.
12:01 tadzik the point is aweseome. Once I saw the duplo and technik at the end, I was like "I see what you did there"
12:01 moritz_ we could s:ii/scala/perl 6/ in there, and be happy
12:01 tadzik maybe no one will notice
12:01 moritz_ s:g:ii/scala/perl 6/ actually
12:02 masak :)
12:02 tadzik I wonder how keyword number comparison will come out
12:02 moritz_ well, perl 6... 1
12:02 moritz_ TimToady usually says that Perl 6 has no keywords, but I disagree
12:03 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = sub() { say 2 }; $xx()
12:03 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = sub() { say 2 }; $x()
12:03 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "my $x = su"␤»
12:03 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "my $x = su"␤»
12:03 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = sub () { say 2 }; $x()
12:03 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«2␤»
12:03 moritz_ hm, I'm kinda sure that used to work
12:03 moritz_ anyway, counting keywords in Perl 6 is rather hard/pointless
12:04 moritz_ for example return() is simle function
12:04 masak Perl 6 has no keywords :P
12:04 moritz_ I guess it kinda depends on how you define "keyword"
12:05 moritz_ if you mean in the sense of "reserved word", I agree
12:05 moritz_ if you mean in the sense "the parser has to know about this word", then we do have keywords
12:06 masak nod.
12:08 masak rakudo: sub() {}
12:08 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "sub() {}"␤»
12:08 * masak submits rakudobug
12:09 masak std: sub() {}
12:09 p6eval std 32107: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Word 'sub' interpreted as 'sub()' function call; please use whitespace around the parens at /tmp/GKUb3wpUVi line 1:␤------> [32msub[33m⏏[31m() {}[0m␤Unexpected block in infix position (two terms in a row) at /tmp/GKUb3wpUVi line 1:␤------>
12:09 p6eval ..[32msu…
12:09 masak oh.
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12:11 moritz_ if we already know what the user means, why don't we just parse it tha way?
12:11 moritz_ (yes, I know, consistency...)
12:11 moritz_ still it feels a bit smartass
12:11 masak I agree.
12:12 masak also, sub foo() is allowed.
12:12 drake1 hi again, when you hash substitute in a perl6 here-doc like  http://pastebin.ca/1925830 in perl5, then whats the parse modes?
12:13 moritz_ rakudo: sub foo() { }; sub sub(&a) { a() }; sub foo { say 42 }
12:13 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Can not re-declare sub &foo without declaring it multi at line 22, near ""␤»
12:14 moritz_ rakudo: sub foo(&a) {a() }; sub sub() { a() }; sub foo { say 42 }
12:14 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Can not re-declare sub &foo without declaring it multi at line 22, near ""␤»
12:14 moritz_ std: sub foo(&a) {a() }; sub sub() { a() }; sub foo { say 42 }
12:14 p6eval std 32107: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Illegal redeclaration of routine 'foo' (see line 1) at /tmp/Ypa2dXni5p line 1:␤------> [32mo(&a) {a() }; sub sub() { a() }; sub foo[33m⏏[31m { say 42 }[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤     'a' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:03 120m␤»
12:14 masak drake1: in a qq string, all $ variables are interpolated, and all other variables if they end in () or [] or {} or <>
12:14 moritz_ hey, it's a perfectly valid call to sub(foo({say 42}))
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12:14 masak :)
12:15 masak moritz_: actually, I agree with Rakudo there.
12:15 masak moritz_: if you use 'sub' without parens, you mean sub declaration.
12:15 masak or should mean it, at least :)
12:15 moritz_ yes, I know
12:16 drake1 masak: naturally
12:17 moritz_ fwiw, http://perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6 also explains the difference in interpolation
12:17 moritz_ </advertise>
12:17 masak drake1: so, for example, the '@' in "johnson@example.com" is not interpolated.
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12:18 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
12:18 masak morning, pm
12:18 masak pmichaud: there are people asking about R*+1
12:18 pmichaud it's coming.  I lost computer access yesterday evening.
12:18 masak ok.
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12:20 * moritz_ wonders how much spam example.com would get, if they had an MX record :-)
12:20 bluescreen is now known as Guest15482
12:22 drake1 a bit woman alike to use 44 fds, better get back to 4
12:25 drake1 perl6 supports $cmd{title} in heredocs?
12:25 masak no barewords in {}
12:26 masak use <> for that.
12:26 masak but yes, it does.
12:26 drbean joined #perl6
12:26 masak though Rakudo doesn't support heredocs.
12:26 drake1 ok
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12:28 masak ooh, S06 says that you can do 'is dynamic' on subs, and lose the &* twigil.
12:28 masak I honestly don't see how that'd work.
12:29 masak oh, ah. you still have to invoke it with the twigil. never mind.
12:29 drake1 joined #perl6
12:30 drake1 just had to kill the king . so in perl6 it's $<title> for the title of $_ ?
12:30 pmichaud that'd be $_<title>
12:30 masak no, the short form of $_<title> is .<title>
12:30 drake1 ok
12:30 drake1 oh
12:30 pmichaud or .<title>, yes.
12:30 drake1 nice
12:31 masak it *is* nice :)
12:31 drake1 very
12:31 masak drake1: $<title> is when you start doing grammar stuff.
12:31 drake1 ok
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12:35 drake1 joined #perl6
12:35 drake1 then I needed a shell an pushed the Halt! button instead
12:35 moritz_ halt: must be superuser.
12:36 cjk101010 joined #perl6
12:36 drake1 this halt command can be used by any user
12:37 drake1 { title=>"Halt!", cmd => "shutdown -s -t 00" },
12:37 drake1 ); # it's windows
12:37 pmichaud weird
12:38 drake1 yes
12:38 pmichaud the tarballs for the 2010.08 release end up being 2x the size of the 2010.07 release
12:38 masak why?
12:39 pmichaud I don't know.
12:39 pmichaud looking into that now...I just noticed it.
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12:40 pmichaud oh, looks like the .git dirs are making it into the tarball somehow.
12:40 moritz_ do we include all those .git dirsß
12:40 pmichaud normally, no.
12:40 moritz_ s/ß/?/ but too slow :-)
12:40 pmichaud something isn't eliminating them properly, I guess.
12:40 drake1 something like http://pastebin.ca/1925851 in perl6 ?
12:40 moritz_ find -name .git | xargs rm -rf
12:41 moritz_ I like the ` | xargs rm -rf` pattern :-)
12:41 masak drake1: no, $.<title> means yet another thing :)
12:41 huf and then it breaks hard if any dir has a space in the name ;)
12:41 masak drake1: it means 'self.title'
12:41 moritz_ drake1: are you mixing shell and perl syntax?
12:42 moritz_ std: $.<foo>
12:42 p6eval std 32107: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Bogus statement at /tmp/irtwZJkJvc line 1:␤------> [32m<BOL>[33m⏏[31m$.<foo>[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 117m␤»
12:42 moritz_ masak: not allowed with <>
12:42 masak oh wait. right.
12:42 drake1 moritz_: yes of course
12:42 drake1 moritz_: or else how would perl get ideas
12:42 masak drake1: simplest is probably to write $_<title> there
12:42 moritz_ drake1: by writing perl code
12:42 drake1 ok
12:43 drake1 sometimes it's way too hard to work with parallel processes in perl
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12:43 drake1 then it's good with a shell
12:43 moritz_ but then you just start a program
12:43 moritz_ which itself is pure perl or $other_prgoramming_language
12:44 drake1 it's one of the @cmd bins
12:45 drake1 then what about http://pastebin.ca/1925854 ?
12:45 pmichaud Aha.  Someone patched star's makefile such that it's now including the .git dirs.
12:45 pmichaud Fixing.
12:45 moritz_ drake1: that's still not valid syntax in any programming language I knwo
12:45 masak drake1: how about actually running the program to see if it works?
12:45 drake1 http://pastebin.ca/1925855 sry, forgot the first `dot' dereference
12:46 pmichaud yay, back down to 5.3MB
12:46 drake1 masak: it runs with some other languages
12:46 masak drake1: I'm no longer sure what it is you want to accomplish.
12:47 masak drake1: I thought you were writing a Perl 6 program. now it seems you're not.
12:47 moritz_ drake1: I'm firmly convinced that the only way to learn a language is to write programs in it, run the programs, debug and extend them
12:48 colomon moritz_: you should have said how long it took to do that mandelbrot.  (Or perhaps not, for P.R.'s sake!)
12:48 masak to his credit, drake1++ is actually doing the first step :)
12:48 takadonet morning all
12:48 moritz_ colomon: perhaps not :-)
12:48 drake1 moritz_: usually I make the drawing and write it with no mistakes
12:48 huf drawing?
12:48 drake1 except in perl . perl has too many features to get right the first time
12:48 masak drake1: with all due respect, that's not how programming works.
12:48 moritz_ drake1: that's impressive, and highly unsual, for any non-trivial program
12:48 drake1 huf: you know like mental reasoning
12:49 masak drake1: the goal isn't to write it the dirst time with no mistakes.
12:49 huf drake1: as opposed to what kind of reasoning?
12:49 masak drake1: the goal is to get the code to do what you want. that's usually an iterative process.
12:49 drake1 masak: yes
12:49 masak glad we agree :)
12:49 huf i rarely know what my code will want when it's done
12:49 huf at best i have a vague idea
12:50 drake1 this time around Im much better at C, because it's a lot more simple
12:50 drake1 easy to generate with grammar scripts etc
12:50 huf the difficulty is pushed elsewhere
12:50 huf you can never get rid of it
12:51 drake1 when working with strange libraries, however, I prefer a language like perl to "package" them
12:51 drake1 and to play with them
12:52 smash_ pmichaud: hi, any easy way to look at nqp-rx ocnfiguration while running 'make test' ?
12:52 pmichaud ...nqp-rx configuration?
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12:52 pmichaud what exactly is that?
12:53 pmichaud (what are you wanting to look for?)
12:53 smash_ let me re·phrase that, i want to look at the makefile that was used to build nqp-rx
12:53 moritz_ why?
12:54 smash_ because i want to skip a test if i _don't_have ICU
12:54 smash_ instead of a having a test failure
12:54 moritz_ rakudo: say $*VM<config><has_icu>
12:54 p6eval rakudo 3a339e: OUTPUT«1␤»
12:55 moritz_ you can get that information from PIR too
12:55 pmichaud I'm guessing this has to do with the p6regex tests moving into the standard "make test" target.
12:55 moritz_ see src/cheats/process.pm lines 18 etc. in rakudo
12:56 pmichaud smash_: which test(s) are failing?
12:56 smash_ i get the test fail in nqp-rx testing !! not rakudo
12:56 smash_ (probably this is not the correctly irc channel for this discussion)
12:57 smash_ (my bad)
12:57 pmichaud smash_: no, it's the correct channel
12:57 moritz_ smash_: the code I pointed you to in Rakudo works in nqp-rx too
12:57 pmichaud .oO(why am I being ignored?)
12:58 moritz_ pmichaud: you're just the pumpking; why should you have something to say? :-)
12:58 smash_ t/nqp/46-charspec.t fails
12:58 pmichaud ah yes, that one would fail.
12:58 masak moritz_: [Coke] says on #parrot that jnthn should've gotten credit too for the memory leak fix. :)
12:59 drake1 the working perl5 version is http://pastebin.ca/1925862
12:59 pmichaud smash_: instead of looking at the Makefile, it would be better to check the parrot configuration directly
12:59 smash_ pmichaud: yes yes, true
12:59 moritz_ which I've been trying to explain
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13:01 smash_ moritz_: yeap, looking at what you pointed out, thank you
13:02 drake1 http://pastebin.ca/1925867 has some more of it
13:03 pmichaud I've uploaded the R*+1 tarball to github... but I have to leave now and don't have time to post the announcement.  :-(
13:03 pmichaud If someone else gets to it before me, great -- otherwise it'll be ~3h before I can do it.
13:03 PZt left #perl6
13:05 pmichaud (the announcement is in the star repo as well as in the tarball)
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13:06 drake1 when all the IPC messages are good in strings for perl, they're easy to specify in a binary form instead
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13:17 pmichaud wow, temp here finally dropped below 25C in August
13:20 smash_ pmichaud: 'All tests successful.' for the rakudo-star-2010.08 tarball
13:20 pmichaud \o/  thanks
13:27 PZt joined #perl6
13:28 drake1 ah it's perfect weather today, better get trippin' :-) . Keep up great work. Bye
13:28 drake1 left #perl6
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13:29 PerlJam today is weird.
13:30 PerlJam Ordinarily I see "perl 6" tweets via google reader.  Every. Day.
13:30 PerlJam Today -- none
13:32 masak PerlJam: I see them in my client.
13:33 PerlJam Hrm.  clearly there are new tweets, my client must be having some sort of hiccup because it doesn't show that there are any new ones since I checked last night.
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13:52 smash_ ahh, i need to skip the test before actually loading it :)
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14:01 tadzik hello again
14:03 moritz_ http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/​comments/d5f6n/on_the_language_wars/ wow, people really have problems accepting the truth in there
14:04 huf it's reddit, and hib0u has already turned up
14:04 huf what do you expect? :D
14:04 tadzik There was 7 upvotes/0 downvotes for the first half an hour, turned out to what you see in another one
14:05 tadzik my suspicion is that it took more time for pythoners to read,       as the       text did     not      contain   too many   useless whitespace
14:05 huf now now, let's not sink to their level
14:06 huf fud and uninformed flaming is for python users :D
14:07 tadzik (:
14:08 masak more likely is that it was linked here and upvoted first, and that later a more general (and less receptive) audience found it and downvoted.
14:08 slavik GIL is silly and retarded
14:09 risou joined #perl6
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14:10 tadzik GIL?
14:12 PerlJam Global Interpreter Lock
14:12 moritz_ Golymorphic Inline Lache
14:12 masak Gloop Intervening Leach
14:13 moritz_ Gree Itter Lacronyme
14:13 masak obviously, we're running out of Gree Itter Lacronyms.
14:14 PerlJam Glycol Imbibed Loftily
14:14 PerlJam Garbage Incinerated Lazily
14:15 huf GIL Is Lame
14:15 PerlJam huf++
14:15 dalek rakudo: df38ac1 | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
14:15 dalek rakudo: bump PARROT_REVISION for testing, and to get some few parrot speedups
14:15 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d​f38ac11a860c536bbb859ae118b4ee245521feb
14:15 moritz_ btw http://perl6.org/page-stats shows an impressive R* peak :-)
14:15 huf PerlJam: does that work nice and lazy in perl6 btw? :)
14:15 szbalint Guard It Lazily
14:16 moritz_ szbalint++ # /me likes it
14:16 PerlJam Guido Is Laconic
14:17 tadzik are there any funny new speedups?
14:23 masak I don't think "funny" is the word you're looking for. :)
14:23 masak "badly needed", perhaps.
14:25 tadzik so what are those? :)
14:30 masak his HIB0U fellow on proggit is one of the few people whose troll attempts have an effect on me. guy's good.
14:31 tadzik he claims being a Perlist, even sits on r/perl and trolling there
14:31 wtw left #perl6
14:31 masak love the comeback http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comm​ents/d5f6n/on_the_language_wars/c0xqlcm -- tadzik++
14:32 moritz_ masak: he also trolls ruby folks, fwiw
14:32 masak moritz_: doesn't make me like him more.
14:32 tadzik masak: that'd probably cause him to troll even more, but I could not resist
14:33 masak tadzik: from a moral high-ground perspective, it's a good reply.
14:33 huf if you look at his comment history, he's not a very nice person in any subreddit
14:33 masak it's more directed to people who listen in than to him.
14:33 tadzik we should write an awesome Cardinal, work together on parrot and teach this bastards some respect ];>
14:33 huf but his trolling efforts are concentrated in proggit ;)
14:33 tadzik the most traffic is there
14:37 araujo any idea for a nice name for a "function composition" name ?
14:37 moritz_ compose() ?
14:39 moritz_ =>>
14:41 masak ~~>>!!~~
14:42 envi^home left #perl6
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14:42 masak araujo: o
14:42 masak as in, f o g
14:45 smash_ masak: excelent :)
14:45 masak module-ending '1;' is gone from Perl 6, right? :)
14:45 moritz_ infix:<o>
14:45 moritz_ masak: right
14:45 masak because I just told someone on Twitter that it is.
14:46 tadzik http://fedoraproject.org/wi​ki/Releases/14/FeatureList -- Rakudo Star on the list :)
14:46 masak I don't remember ever writing it :P
14:46 envi^home joined #perl6
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14:47 tadzik http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Rakudo_Star -- more info
14:47 tadzik maybe it's worth taking a look at Fedore
14:48 tadzik it'll be good to poke them and show Rakudo Star releases happen quite often
14:48 tadzik oh ok, they know
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14:55 daxim https://build.opensuse.org/package/binar​ies?package=rakudo-star&amp;project=home​:ldieckow&amp;repository=openSUSE_11.3
14:55 daxim the specfile was a heroic effort without destdir
14:56 moritz_ gerd pokorra, who also did some parrot relases, takes care of the Fedora packages
15:00 araujo masak, mmm o ... mm.. nice
15:00 araujo :)
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15:11 tadzik why does Rakudo generate so much PIR? Hello world is 109 lines, I found 4 which are actually printing a String
15:13 szbalint A hello world is probably a bad example.
15:14 moritz_ tadzik: because it doesn't optimize away the things that general Perl 6 program needs
15:14 tadzik I see something about phasers
15:14 moritz_ tadzik: like $_, $/ and $! in every block, hooks to start phasers (if any) etc.
15:15 ash_ left #perl6
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15:21 tadzik http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/​d5q8s/periodic_table_of_the_perl6_operators/ -- another thing doomed to be furiously downvoted. Sadly
15:24 huf tons of functions = good. tons of operators = suddenly bad, for no reason at all
15:24 huf i never could wrap my head around that kind of thinking
15:26 tadzik speking of functions, I'd really like rand(5) as a sugar for 5.rand :)
15:26 tadzik rakudo: say rand(5)
15:26 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of rand(N); in Perl 6 please use N.rand or (1..N).pick at line 22, near "(5)"␤»
15:26 tadzik pugs: say rand(5)
15:26 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«3.9687930330328625␤»
15:26 tadzik pugs++
15:27 moritz_ rakudo++
15:28 huf randy bugger
15:28 szbalint why was rand(N) outlawed?
15:28 tadzik why 'say "asd"' is ok and 'rand 5' is not?
15:29 moritz_ because people are used to say rand * 5
15:29 moritz_ and that blows up rand is a listop that expects an argument
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15:32 TimToady because people keep saying rand < .5
15:33 TimToady yes, the problem is people want it both as 0-ary and 1-ary
15:33 TimToady and rand*5 is shorter than rand(5)
15:35 TimToady pugs: say rand < .5
15:35 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected end of input␤    expecting "\\", variable name, ">" or "<"␤    at /tmp/dzd0S3l7ZB line 2, column 1␤»
15:35 tadzik rakudo: say rand*5
15:35 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«1.13567848967918␤»
15:35 tadzik now how does this one parse?
15:36 TimToady * is not a postfix, so it must be an infix
15:36 TimToady std: say
15:36 p6eval std 32107: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤  Unsupported use of bare 'say'; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument at /tmp/mWmrUAIsyL line 1:␤------> [32msay[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤ok 00:01 114m␤»
15:36 TimToady you'll note we drove say the other direction
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15:37 tadzik but why does rand*5 become 5.rand? Or it does not, but it works like this
15:37 huf std: say:
15:37 p6eval std 32107: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Bogus statement at /tmp/xLB_k1xPi9 line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32msay:[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 115m␤»
15:37 huf whee ;)
15:37 TimToady I also note that in nearly all the toy examples you ever see on, say, rosettacode, you very nearly always want (1..$n).pick
15:38 tadzik that's correct
15:38 TimToady which is much clearer on intent and less error prone
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15:40 tadzik but how does this rand*5 work? It keeps bugging me
15:40 zostay % perl6 -e 'class A{}; my A @x = [A.new]; my $x = @x[0];'
15:40 zostay maximum recursion depth exceeded
15:40 zostay am i doing something wrong or is rakudo*?
15:40 TimToady it's just rand * 5
15:40 moritz_ zostay: typed arrays don't work yet properly
15:40 TimToady same as 5 * rand
15:41 zostay moritz_: great, thx
15:41 moritz_ zostay: and if they did, my A @x = [A.new]; wouldn't work, because the array on the RHS is not typed with A
15:41 [particle] std: say: 5
15:41 p6eval std 32107: OUTPUT«ok 00:02 114m␤»
15:41 [particle] rakudo: say: 5
15:41 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say: 5"␤»
15:41 TimToady that's a label
15:41 [particle] i wonder... that's what i thought
15:42 huf TimToady: the : thing only works on method calls?
15:42 moritz_ std: more: than: one: label: 1
15:42 TimToady : only works on methods, not listops
15:42 p6eval std 32107: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 114m␤»
15:42 tadzik oh, sure
15:42 zostay how do you get the rhs typed correctly?
15:42 tadzik http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=384100 poor, lonely Pythoners :(
15:42 [particle] i saw the 'bogus statement' error above for 'say:' and thought... shouldn't that be a label? yes, it is, but a statement is required after a label.
15:42 TimToady leave off teh []
15:42 [particle] still, think the error message could reflect that... "label without a trailing statement at ..."
15:43 [particle] trailing/associated, whatever
15:43 TimToady it'll be a "Useless use of 5"
15:43 TimToady but 5 is a statement
15:43 tadzik left #perl6
15:43 [particle] std: say:
15:43 p6eval std 32107: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Bogus statement at /tmp/JXqmJPhOaA line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32msay:[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 115m␤»
15:44 [particle] Bogus statement is too generic an error there imo
15:44 TimToady well, the other alternative is to say "Missing statement", which doesn't read well if there *is* something there.  :)
15:45 TimToady std: say: `
15:45 p6eval std 32107: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Bogus statement at /tmp/m8tJJJQMqg line 1:␤------> [32msay: [33m⏏[31m`[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 116m␤»
15:45 TimToady and the chances of it being at $ in a real program is quite small
15:47 slavik TimToady: best error message evar: something error happened
15:47 huf "error: Success" is my personal favorite
15:47 moritz_ ERROR E000000081
15:49 TimToady std: my $x =
15:49 p6eval std 32107: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Bogus term at /tmp/v9xllAfRXz line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32mmy $x =[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 117m␤»
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16:11 ash_ it always amuses me when programs just die with no message and return a number, like 3
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16:13 pmichaud hugme tweet rakudoperl Rakudo Star 2010.08 released http://bit.ly/cA783F #perl6 #rakudo
16:13 * hugme hugs pmichaud; tweet delivered
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16:14 moritz_ pmichaud++ # release
16:14 moritz_ pmichaud++ # getting the twitter tags right :-)
16:16 takadonet pmichaud: just got the twite on my phone at the same time that I saw it in my gmail
16:18 pmichaud takadonet: I have a sekret perl 6 script that runs at the various communications providers to make sure you get everything at exactly the same time.  :-)
16:19 smash_ pmichaud++ # release
16:21 TimToady hmm, instead of 2010.08 I've been using 2010-08 in the version tags on rosettacode.  Hope that doesn't confuse anyone...  :)
16:21 TimToady 2010-08 feels more ISOy
16:21 pmichaud I agree, and Rakudo used yyyy-mm in its early releases
16:22 pmichaud but the linux packagers universally complained, because they can't handle hyphens in version numbers
16:22 daxim left #perl6
16:22 * TimToady wonders if they consider 2010.08 to be the same as 2010.8
16:22 smash_ pmichaud: i have a question regarding the test fail in nqp-rx if you don't have ICU
16:23 pmichaud smash_: answers available now
16:23 TimToady pmichaud++ too btw
16:24 pmichaud I have some ideas for improving the star release process next go-around
16:24 pmichaud in particular, I think I'll do a candidate tarball immediately following the compiler release, and invite module maintainers to verify that the module still works (and get updates in)
16:25 pmichaud a few other things here-and-there that I didn't get to in August :-)
16:25 smash_ pmichaud: the thing is that i can correctly detect if the has_icu is set in the VM, but i think the test fails when nqp-rx reads the test file (before actually any has_icu test can be made)
16:25 smash_ (but i might be missing something)
16:25 pmichaud smash_: I think you're correct.
16:25 pmichaud what failure are you getting?
16:30 smash_ pmichaud: http://nopaste.snit.ch/23150
16:30 pmichaud yeah.
16:30 pmichaud I'm not sure how that should be avoided, now that I think about it a bit more.
16:30 pmichaud we could move the various unicode-related tests into their own test file
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16:31 smash_ i was trying to have a test file that first checks the has_icu and then calls the actually test file
16:31 pmichaud too complex
16:31 pmichaud I'd like nqp to remain a bit more simple
16:32 pmichaud we could potentially put it inside of an evail
16:32 pmichaud *eval
16:32 smash_ move the tests to another file ? and then pull the tests from there ? (similar to t/p6regex/01-regex.t)
16:38 TimToady sorear: I'm of two minds, &$noncode should either fail or produce -> { $noncode }
16:42 TimToady sorear: I believe colomon++ uses "SF" to refer to a close acquaintance with which he shares an identity relationship  :)
16:43 justatheory joined #perl6
16:44 [particle] can the parser detect codepoints outside ascii range?
16:44 TimToady who are you asking, and which "the parser" are you referring to?
16:45 colomon sorear: "SF" is the anonymous blogger at lastofthecarelessmen.blogspot.com
16:45 [particle] sorry, pmichaud, smash: ^^
16:45 pmichaud [particle]: the source is ASCII
16:45 pmichaud the problem is something like   \c[LINE FEED]
16:45 colomon sorear: though he  (?) and I do seem to have a lot of interests in common.  ;)
16:45 TimToady sorear: regarding the identity of SF, I could be wrong, of course...  :)
16:46 pmichaud the compiler tries to convert that to its equivalent string representation, and uses ICU to translate "LINE FEED" into the appropriate codepoint.
16:46 pmichaud so it's not the parser that's having difficulty, it's the string constant conversion.
16:46 justatheory left #perl6
16:47 [particle] ah, ok, well then... that's where the has_icu check belongs, isn't it?
16:47 pmichaud [particle]: and what should it do if ICU isn't present?
16:47 smash_ can't parse source without icu warning ?
16:47 pmichaud currently it throws an exception, which I think is exactly the correct behavior
16:47 am0c joined #perl6
16:48 pmichaud substituting another codepoint would feel very wrong.
16:48 bjarneh left #perl6
16:48 [particle] pmichaud: and now i'm fully caught up in the discussion. harumph.
16:48 [particle] it's something the test harness should deal with, then
16:49 [particle] unless has_icu, skip 46-charspec.t
16:49 pmichaud how does one do that with, say, 'prove' ?
16:49 pmichaud I'm not sure it's worth all that much trouble.  Just switch the test to use an eval() instead.
16:49 [particle] prove --harness=foo ?
16:50 pmichaud writing a separate harness just to handle this one case definitely feels like overkill.
16:50 [particle] this ought to be fun when you start fudging nqp-rx tests for multiple backends
16:51 pmichaud I don't plan to fudge nqp-rx tests for multiple backends.
16:51 pmichaud we might have to ultimately do that, but I'd prefer to avoid it.
16:51 pmichaud more likely is that backend-specific tests will simply appear in their own test files
16:51 [particle] at that point, you'll probably want a harness. until then, eval is a smaller hammer
16:52 pmichaud and the Makefile will select the appropriate backend-specific tests to run
16:52 pmichaud e.g., t/nqp-parrot/
16:52 pmichaud t/nqp-net/
16:52 pmichaud etc.
16:52 [particle] t/nqp-nqp/ !
16:52 [particle] :)
16:53 bjarneh joined #perl6
16:54 [particle] my rakudo rebuilds every time i make test
16:54 [particle] msvc
16:54 pmichaud most likely an incorrect dependency
16:54 pmichaud could be that something is omitting the .exe
16:54 [particle] yeah. ok i'll look into that
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16:57 itz stupid questions whats the perl6 equivalent of "ref $foo"?
16:58 [particle] $foo
16:58 [particle] oops, finger slip
16:58 [particle] $foo.WHAT
16:59 smash_ pmichaud: i just brought this up because most distros don't include ICU
16:59 smash_ (by default)
16:59 [particle] itz: that will give you the type object
16:59 TimToady or more precisely, perhaps $foo.WHAT.Str
16:59 pmichaud smash_: sure, make sense to me.
16:59 [particle] ah, yes. .Str
16:59 TimToady and maybe a .subst(/'()'/, '')
16:59 itz .WHAT?
16:59 tylercurtis itz: but you probably shouldn't do $foo.WHAT for type-checking in Perl 6. You want $foo ~~ SomeType, most likely.
16:59 itz ok
16:59 TimToady itz: as in, WHAT IS THIS?!?!
17:00 patrickas rakudo: ([1,2,3] , :foo<bar> , 'a' , 1)>>.WHAT.say;
17:00 phenny patrickas: 01:48Z <colomon> tell patrickas See http://gist.github.com/550633 for a sketch more along the lines of what I was thinking.  WARNING: code is untested, and almost certainly contains off-by-one errors and possibly boolean logic errors.
17:00 TimToady but usually if you're using WHAT it means you didn't need to
17:00 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«Array()Pair()Str()Int()␤»
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17:08 jferrero Hi! Who is the responsable of rakudo.org web site?
17:09 PerlJam jferrero: why?
17:09 jferrero http://rakudo.org/rss.xml dont work...
17:09 pmichaud I've mentioned it several times to the maintainer, but no response.
17:10 PerlJam pmichaud: you don't have admin rights?
17:10 jferrero Ok...
17:10 pmichaud PerlJam: I think this requires access to the shell, not just drupal admin.
17:10 pmichaud at any rate, I don't think I have rights/knowledge to be able to fix it, no.
17:11 pmichaud rss.xml has been broken since at least March 2009.
17:11 jferrero and the link is at rakudo web page, below Syndicate section.
17:12 jferrero Is better comment-it
17:12 pmichaud jferrero: anyway, Andy Lester is the one who probably needs to fix it, or take it off if it's never going to work.
17:12 TimToady sorear: re http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2010-08-26#i_2749488 yes, those are different when foo returns a list; my $x = will assign the whole parcel; my ($x) = will only pull the first and discard the rest as a list assignment
17:17 TimToady phenny: tell masak re http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2010-08-26#i_2749612 literals in the ASCII range should be considered to allomorphic to both Buf and Str; it's only when you get out of ASCII that the types really diverge
17:17 phenny TimToady: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
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18:07 alester fix what
18:07 alester I didn't know the RSS wasn't working. :-(
18:08 alester it's added to my to-do list.
18:08 alester what does "doesn't work" mean in this case?  What's the symptom?
18:09 cjk101010 left #perl6
18:09 alester Just not getting updated?
18:11 smash_ most recent item in rss.xml is from 02/27/2009
18:12 alester So, yes, not getting updated.
18:12 alester Don't know why, will check.
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18:13 tadzik oh hai
18:14 smash_ hi
18:14 alester If anyone is up on Drupal, I'd be glad to know what to look for.
18:16 PerlJam drupal has a cron entry for that sort of stuff IIRC
18:17 PerlJam (haven't touched drupal in a couple of years though)
18:17 smash_ i would start looking at admin/content/rss-publishing
18:17 smash_ rakudo.org/admin/content/rss-publishing i mean
18:18 smash_ and then yes, check cron
18:19 alester well, I ran cron
18:19 smash_ xomething wrong with cron the i guess :)
18:22 TimToady obviously, composition should use infix:<⎄>
18:24 TimToady .u ⎄
18:24 phenny U+2384 COMPOSITION SYMBOL (⎄)
18:25 PerlJam I thought it would be more like infix:<o>
18:25 risou_ left #perl6
18:25 risou joined #perl6
18:26 TimToady the example on risottocode, er, rosettacode, uses ∘
18:26 Italian_Plumber joined #perl6
18:26 TimToady f ∘ g
18:27 TimToady I wonder what ⎄ is really used for...
18:28 TimToady "your search did not match any documents"
18:28 PerlJam perhaps it's english composition  :)
18:28 PerlJam s/english/writing/
18:29 TimToady the circle and square lead me to think it's probably something in graphical design
18:29 plobsing left #perl6
18:29 alester well, I dunno how it updates rss.xml
18:29 alester it's not even a real file.
18:30 tadzik http://www.youtube.com/user/y​apceu2010#p/u/29/kOiGF9eRUWY  -- am I the only one who is missing voice in here, or was masak just silent?
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18:31 PerlJam tadzik: the audio it just white-noise for me.
18:31 PerlJam s/it/is/
18:31 tadzik same here
18:31 TimToady but it's mixed in with some other editing symbols, so PerlJam++ is probably right
18:31 jferrero tadzik, Yes... noise
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18:40 masak ahoy, #perl6!
18:40 phenny masak: 17:17Z <TimToady> tell masak re http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2010-08-26#i_2749612 literals in the ASCII range should be considered to allomorphic to both Buf and Str; it's only when you get out of ASCII that the types really diverge
18:41 Su-Shee left #perl6
18:41 masak oh dear. oh well.
18:41 masak as long as it's literals... :)
18:42 alester I'm in #drupal and I'm gettin' nowhere. :-(
18:43 TimToady masak: but also see, for instance, S05:4285
18:43 mantovani left #perl6
18:44 TimToady masak: also for you: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2010-08-26#i_2751029
18:44 * masak checks one, then the other
18:45 masak TimToady: that part of S05 has always seemed suspect to me. I get a "let me see it implemented first" feeling from it.
18:45 masak in fact, I get that about the Cat type in general.
18:46 am0c left #perl6
18:46 masak TimToady: re composition: ☺
18:47 TimToady ö
18:47 tadzik »ö«
18:47 TimToady then camelia is hyper function composition
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18:47 tadzik Maybe we should vote for inclusion of Camelia in Unicode?
18:48 TimToady then it couldn't be a trademark :)
18:52 tylercurtis Is there a more concise way to specify a signature expecting a named parameter :$a that is True than (Bool :$a where ?*) or similar?
18:52 tadzik then we should also push a Camelia With A TradeMark
18:53 masak tylercurtis: True
18:53 masak oh wait. named.
18:53 pyrimidine left #perl6
18:53 * tylercurtis wonders if :a(True) would work.
18:53 masak no.
18:53 masak Bool :$a where 1
18:53 pyrimidine joined #perl6
18:54 PerlJam If it's always True, why make it a parameter?
18:54 masak PerlJam: multis
18:54 PerlJam or are you differentiating for multis ...
18:54 * PerlJam <-- slow typer today
18:55 PerlJam (:$a where True)  reads better than your original though (IMHO)
18:55 tylercurtis PerlJam: if that worked.
18:55 tylercurtis rakudo: say False ~~ True
18:55 pyrimidine_ joined #perl6
18:55 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Smartmatch against True always matches; if you mean to test the topic for truthiness, use :so or *.so or ?* instead at line 22, near " True"␤»
18:55 PerlJam oh, right.  I forgot about that
18:56 tadzik ...what if you _do_ want it to always match?
18:56 tadzik That's unfair
18:56 tylercurtis tadzik: eventually, Rakudo will support compiler warnings as well as errors.
18:56 tadzik sounds sane
18:56 tylercurtis rakudo: say False ~~ *
18:57 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«1␤»
18:57 tylercurtis tadzik: until then, ^^
18:57 masak tadzik: oh, you're here. good.
18:58 pyrimidine left #perl6
18:58 pyrimidine_ is now known as pyrimidine
18:58 tadzik duh, no one reddited Rakudo Star yet
19:00 * tylercurtis finally understands why * can't just be Whatever.
19:03 ash_ rakudo: say 123.so
19:03 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«Method 'so' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/XV6XgmD4ts␤»
19:04 ash_ rakudo: say 123 ~~ *.so
19:04 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«Method 'so' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/fcIyV7BOdg␤  in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5769:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/fcIyV7BOdg␤»
19:04 ash_ rakudo: say False ~~ True
19:04 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Smartmatch against True always matches; if you mean to test the topic for truthiness, use :so or *.so or ?* instead at line 22, near " True"␤»
19:04 ash_ rakudo: say 123 ~~ :so
19:04 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«Method 'so' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤  in 'Enum::ACCEPTS' at line 5070:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/VxA_PwW8bo␤»
19:04 TimToady rakudobug
19:05 masak which one?
19:05 tylercurtis rakudo: say True.so
19:05 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«Method 'so' not found for invocant of class 'Bool'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/3FybvCrH3A␤»
19:05 jferrero left #perl6
19:05 masak looks like a TODO to me.
19:05 ash_ ah, i was wondering why it was advertising to use :so or *.so but those don't work
19:05 TimToady cargo culted the error message from STD :)
19:06 masak oh well.
19:06 * masak submits TODO rakudobug
19:06 TimToady rakudo: say True.true
19:06 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«Method 'true' not found for invocant of class 'Bool'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/2aqWn3pBXj␤»
19:06 ash_ ah, so, 'the right way' is to use .so in the future?
19:06 TimToady rakudo: say True.not
19:06 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«Method 'not' not found for invocant of class 'Bool'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/87wjXIXaMv␤»
19:06 tadzik what does .so mean?
19:06 TimToady rakudo: say True.&not
19:06 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &not␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/wPgjm3Cv5Y␤»
19:07 TimToady humph
19:07 TimToady rakudo: say True.&prefix:<not>
19:07 masak rakudo: say not True
19:07 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«0␤»
19:07 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«0␤»
19:07 TimToady rakudo: say True.&prefix:<not>.&prefix:<not>
19:07 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:07 TimToady there you go
19:07 ash_ rakudo: say !!true # ?
19:07 TimToady just use that :)
19:08 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &true␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/1Z7QsU4_uA␤»
19:08 ash_ rakudo: say !! True
19:08 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:08 TimToady rakudo: say True.&prefix:<?>
19:08 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:08 tadzik rakudo: say !!True
19:09 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:09 tadzik rakudo: say !!!True!!! # curiouos
19:09 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say !!!Tru"␤»
19:09 ash_ sub true { True }; # should be part of settings :P
19:09 tadzik ! is only a prefix?
19:09 TimToady std: say !!!True!!!
19:09 p6eval std 32107: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/xWm3sjVz8D line 1:␤------> [32msay !!![33m⏏[31mTrue!!![0m␤    expecting any of:␤ POST␤   argument list␤      bracketed infix␤  infix or meta-infix␤      postfix␤        postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤       statement
19:09 p6eval ..modifier loop␤Parse failed␤FAIL…
19:10 TimToady parsing !!! as listop
19:10 TimToady as a form of yada
19:11 TimToady but no, there's no postfix:<!> unless you define it
19:11 TimToady std: 42 !! 43
19:11 p6eval std 32107: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Ternary !! seems to be missing its ?? at /tmp/WOTM33aSKe line 1:␤------> [32m42 !![33m⏏[31m 43[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 116m␤»
19:12 tadzik rakudo: multi postfix:<!> ($a) { !$a }; say !!True!!
19:12 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:12 tylercurtis tadzik: you're making the mathematicians cry.
19:12 tadzik rakudo: multi postfix:<!> ($a) { !$a }; say !!False!! # just in case
19:12 tadzik (:
19:12 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«0␤»
19:12 rokoteko rakudo: say +^+^0 ~ "/" +^+^False
19:12 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«01␤»
19:12 rokoteko rakudo: say +^+^0 ~ "/" ~ +^+^False
19:12 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«0/1␤»
19:12 tylercurtis rakudo multi postfix:<!>($n) { [*] 1..$n }; say 5!;
19:13 tylercurtis rakudo: multi postfix:<!>($n) { [*] 1..$n }; say 5!;
19:13 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«120␤»
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19:14 rokoteko rakudo: say !!0 === !!False
19:14 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:18 rokoteko rakudo: say 0 === False  ... what does === really do? I must've missed something.
19:18 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say 0 === "␤»
19:18 pyrimidine left #perl6
19:18 rokoteko rakudo: say 0 === False  # ...
19:18 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«1␤»
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19:19 tadzik masak: are we doing some pls hacking tonight?
19:19 masak tadzik: ok, I've started going through projects now. first obstacle: json, which used to install fine, doesn't install fine.
19:19 pyrimidine_ joined #perl6
19:19 masak tadzik: I'll set up a list of projects that install, and we'll just go through it until everything works. ok? :)
19:19 tadzik sure thing :0
19:19 tadzik :
19:20 tadzik :)
19:20 tadzik I'd like to gain some knowledge about Pls though
19:20 masak that is permitted according to the rules. :)
19:21 masak how may I help you?
19:22 tadzik hold on a sec
19:22 pyrimidine left #perl6
19:22 pyrimidine_ is now known as pyrimidine
19:22 frettled masak: waitasec.  We have rules of engagement regarding learning?  :D
19:23 masak frettled: if you have to ask...
19:23 frettled masak: darnit, I lost the game.
19:23 masak thanks for playing.
19:24 tadzik masak: so where do I start reading? :)
19:24 risou left #perl6
19:24 masak tadzik: lack of documentation is one of the shortcomings on pls. I also haven't written one single blog post on the topic. the whole design is, unfortunately, in here right now.
19:24 * masak tocks head
19:25 tadzik hmm
19:25 masak but I think I can get you started pretty quickly.
19:25 masak outwardly, it's very much like proto.
19:25 bjarneh joined #perl6
19:25 masak the insides are all changed.
19:25 masak there's a test suite. it might help. then again, it might not.
19:25 tadzik I didn't know proto either :)
19:25 masak but you cloned it... :)
19:26 tadzik :D
19:26 tadzik !!! is the new yada-yada?
19:27 sftp joined #perl6
19:28 masak tadzik: ... ??? !!!
19:28 masak tadzik: fails, warns, errs
19:28 tadzik oh, cute
19:28 masak exceedingly so.
19:28 TimToady S03:2270
19:28 masak it's part of the whole "strangely consistent" thing.
19:28 masak tadzik: see if you can access http://123.writeboard.com/d3d47bc9b2b3159ca
19:29 tadzik enter the password for this camelia
19:29 masak password is 'OH PLS'
19:29 _macdaddy joined #perl6
19:29 tadzik oh funny thing :)
19:30 masak can it haz working?
19:30 tadzik yep
19:30 masak \o/
19:30 masak then we have a common writing area.
19:30 masak now,
19:30 masak we hack.
19:30 molaf left #perl6
19:30 masak first quest: why doesn't json install? the build looks fine, but it's marked as FAIL.
19:30 tadzik holdonholdonholdon
19:31 tadzik I can has questions?
19:31 * masak holds on
19:31 masak at any time, you may ask at most one question :)
19:31 colomon but he certainly can have many questions, if he can hold them all in his head at once.
19:31 TimToady more ammo for the perl6 haters: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Happy_numbers#Perl_6
19:31 tadzik I'm reading the App::Pls sauce codes. I see many / fetch.* / methods, but none of them seem to actually fetch anything. Where does the funny stuff happen?
19:32 frettled left #perl6
19:32 masak TimToady: the tricks version is disappointingly long :)
19:32 masak tadzik: you've reached level 1 of enlightenment.
19:32 masak tadzik: App::Pls tells what to do, but not how.
19:33 tadzik oh
19:33 masak tadzik: that's the reason it's testable.
19:33 tadzik proof-of-concept implements it?
19:33 masak for now, yes.
19:33 TimToady masak: it would be shorter if rakudo implemented state
19:33 * masak misses state
19:33 TimToady I would argue, though, that this inner loop is easier to understand
19:33 masak tadzik: I'm thinking most of what poc does might end up in a module too.
19:34 tadzik oh I get it!
19:34 tadzik You actually write the roles, which in App::Pls do nothing, right?
19:34 masak that sounds like level 2 enlightenment to me :)
19:34 pyrimidine left #perl6
19:34 * tadzik powerleveling
19:34 masak right.
19:34 masak it's a bit like interfaces in Java. but nice.
19:35 tadzik yep, sounded so
19:35 ash_ roles are different from interfaces though, in that they can contain an implementation
19:35 dju joined #perl6
19:35 masak App::Pls says "this is the order in which you do things when you install a module". poc says "this is the actuall stuff you do when you do what App::Pls wants"
19:36 masak ash_: aye. that's the nice part :)
19:38 tadzik masak: pls lies :(
19:38 tadzik You'll find a log file `build-json.log` in the current directory, with output from the failing step.
19:38 tadzik NOEZ I CANT :(
19:38 moritz_ what does .so gives us that .Bool doesn't give us?
19:38 masak should probably do two things here.
19:38 masak (1) make sure it never says that if the file isn't there
19:39 masak (2) make sure it produces the file as often as it can
19:39 dju left #perl6
19:39 masak moritz_: it's the method form of &so
19:39 moritz_ masak: ... so?
19:39 moritz_ :-)
19:39 mantovani joined #perl6
19:39 dju joined #perl6
19:40 moritz_ I can add
19:40 moritz_ multi method so() { self.Bool }
19:40 moritz_ to Mu.pm
19:40 moritz_ but I fail to see the real benefit
19:41 masak completeness.
19:41 sftp left #perl6
19:41 tadzik maybe it should be removed from specs then
19:42 plainhao left #perl6
19:43 tadzik masak: poc needs some profiling love :)
19:43 mberends left #perl6
19:43 masak tadzik: it's a good idea to precompile to PIR.
19:43 masak I do.
19:43 masak tadzik: I just pushed a fix for (1) above.
19:43 masak tadzik: are you trying to install json?
19:44 tadzik masak: ywis
19:44 tadzik masak: where is this file actually being created?
19:44 masak depends on what goes wrong with the build.
19:45 tadzik masak: and about the enlightenment, App::Pls is like the spec and poc is like the implementation?
19:45 masak confirmed; I'm also getting no build log file.
19:45 masak tadzik: well, it's more like a brain and arms/legs.
19:45 tadzik line 64 in poc
19:46 masak aye, but sometimes things abort through other paths than that line.
19:46 masak this case is probably one of those.
19:46 masak here's my guess: last time I changed poc, I probably destroyed the build mechanism.
19:46 masak it's outdated anyway. let's remake it from scratch.
19:46 * masak gets some water
19:47 tadzik hrm. Maybe rather something like $res = qqx/make/? So we can stderr it when being verbose in addition to being filestored
19:48 tadzik duh, but no error code then
19:49 masak ok, here's the plan.
19:49 tadzik is there some nice way to handle this?
19:49 masak currently, poc creates a Makefile and then runs the Makefile.
19:49 tadzik yes
19:49 masak if there was none before.
19:49 masak this is error prone and brittle and unnecessary.
19:49 mberends joined #perl6
19:49 tadzik (I think it'd be nice to embed ufo in a cleaner way, also to use system ufo if available)
19:50 masak I have another idea. :)
19:50 tadzik please speak on :)
19:50 masak let's emulate the necessary parts of make in pure Perl 6.
19:50 masak it's not that much.
19:50 masak we already find out the most likely optimal build order to write to the Makefile.
19:51 masak let's just take that build order and build the modules ourselves.
19:51 tadzik well, that can be done
19:51 masak in the testing step, let's just run prove ourselves.
19:51 * tadzik takes a glance at ufo-generated makefile
19:51 masak in the install step, let's just copy the files ourselves.
19:51 masak as a side bonus, things will work on Windows.
19:51 ash_ how is App::Pls coming along? (been out of the loop on some of the rakudo stuff, just started grad school and been busy with that)
19:52 tadzik ash_: we are just moving it along :)
19:52 arnsholt masak: I would not be hostile to such an idea
19:52 masak ash_: you sound like you're willing to help :)
19:52 tadzik masak: I have another temporary idea. Let's make it run, then we'll make it right. I feel like something else is failing atm
19:52 frettled joined #perl6
19:53 ash_ masak: after i finish try.rakudo.org's backend  (which is long over due) i'll take a look at it
19:53 unlimitopen joined #perl6
19:53 tadzik ash_: piping to REPL being worked on?
19:53 masak tadzik: it runs, it just runs wrong. let's split up: you figure out what's currently wrong; I rip everything out and try to rebuild it properly. :)
19:53 unlimitopen left #perl6
19:53 ash_ i want to integrate rakudo into ros (the one by willow garage), a module installer/package manager would be really helpful for that
19:54 tadzik a'right
19:54 ash_ masak, tadzik it now has a deamon service running in the back end that stores sessions and uses the real REPL
19:54 tadzik great!
19:54 masak ash_++
19:55 Italian_Plumber left #perl6
19:55 ash_ 2 problems though, 1) its not secure (i haven't figured out how to get the REPL to let me change some of the functions in settings and disable pir) and B) it never actually destroys sessions currently, so they last forever, but that should be easier to fix and is what i am working on right now
19:56 tadzik oh, compiling poc to PIR failed miserably here
19:56 tadzik No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<eq>'., Segfault later
19:56 jaldhar left #perl6
19:56 masak tadzik: I meant compiling App::Pls to PIR.
19:56 tadzik but that's another thing
19:57 tadzik look: http://pb.rbfh.de/2C7uxaZ9VqwIY
19:57 * masak looks
19:58 ash_ basically i need http://github.com/moritz/try.rakudo.o​rg/blob/80ea3c14ff80356de6aab928dbc45​dec384cbde3/frontend/cgi/try.pl#L43  to line 63 to be usable in the REPL but it has't be as easy as i thought it would be
19:58 masak I don't think you can compile a Perl 6 script to PIR and then run it with Parrot.
19:58 masak you used to, but no more.
19:58 tadzik ...again? :(
19:58 masak but never mind that. compile App::Pls to PIR and be content with that. :)
19:58 ash_ don't you have to tell it where the perl6 pbc is?
19:59 tadzik I don't think so
19:59 * masak looks at making the build step work
20:00 tadzik Looks like run-logged is not doing anything
20:00 masak I have no reason to believe run-logged doesn't do anything.
20:00 timbunce left #perl6
20:00 tadzik I do: http://pb.rbfh.de/emkiNNC3ofbK
20:01 tadzik It even should be cwd
20:01 masak please don't take that as evidence that run-logged doesn't do anything.
20:01 masak most likely it never reaches that step.
20:01 masak also, your poc is out-of-date :)
20:01 tadzik oh you :)
20:04 tadzik masak: I still believe run-logged doesn't do anything
20:04 tadzik (I also love git stash)
20:05 masak git stash loves you :)
20:05 masak I've seen run-logged work before.
20:06 tadzik http://pb.rbfh.de/HS8DTA1heLBi
20:06 tadzik looks like it doesn't reach any step
20:06 * tadzik tracks back
20:07 timbunce joined #perl6
20:07 tadzik POC::Builder doesn't reach a step when it's ought to run-logged
20:08 masak right.
20:08 masak that's because it's broken. I broke it.
20:08 masak see the git log.
20:09 masak commit 1ae552
20:09 rokoteko left #perl6
20:09 tadzik gitcha
20:09 masak :)
20:09 tadzik oh wow, accidental pun!
20:10 tadzik so what are we doing with this?
20:10 masak oi, good news! ufo installs!
20:10 * masak updates the writeboard
20:10 tadzik I'd go for using the system ufo (temporarily) and make stuff work, then try to make stuff sane
20:11 * masak looks at what he broke in that commit
20:12 tadzik Acme::Meow doesn't install too :( No kittehz :(
20:12 masak fixing up the current code looks doable. but it'll be a bit of wasted work, since we want to replace that code anyway.
20:12 masak tadzik: are you interested in finding out the exact cause for json not building?
20:13 masak it'll mean a bit of debugging; inserting print statements in the code to find out what's going on.
20:13 tadzik I think it might be good to work out some separate solution for a pureperl ufo/make replacement, and maybe to use it in Pls later
20:13 tadzik masak: can wander around
20:13 masak I agree. I just think "later" might be "later tonight" :)
20:14 tadzik Tonight sounds good anyway :)
20:14 tadzik so what, a separate module with pureperl ufo&&make and using that in Pls later?
20:14 tadzik and until that, using ufo in Pls to withdraw it later and have a Ponie?
20:15 ash_ wait, are you saying your going to have a build system that is not make?
20:15 masak I'm rewriting POC::Builder now.
20:15 masak ash_: yes.
20:15 ash_ cool, i don't mind make, but i think you could make something more powerful with out to much headache
20:15 tadzik oh, so I'll sit and watch
20:16 masak tadzik: or you could find what's wrong with the current POC::Builder.
20:16 masak tadzik: specifically, why doesn't it install json?
20:16 tadzik masak: but you're rewriting it anyway. I can though
20:16 ash_ when using ruby, i alway use rake for things, rake and ruby go together very well, it would be cool to see something perl6 oriented though
20:16 masak tadzik: another thing you could do is pick a random module in the writeboard list and see if it works.
20:17 masak ash_: I've been thinking the same thing. this is a much smaller solution than rake, though.
20:17 ash_ thats fine, its still nice that your doing it, i have thought about starting something like that, but i haven't had the need to drive me to build it yet
20:19 nwellnhof joined #perl6
20:21 sundar left #perl6
20:21 nwellnhof masak: I think I found a fix for parrot TT #1746
20:22 masak nwellnhof: I just saw that. I think I owe you a beer now.
20:22 masak hugme: nwellnhof
20:22 masak hugme: hug nwellnhof
20:22 * hugme hugs nwellnhof
20:22 masak \o/
20:22 ash_ left #perl6
20:22 nwellnhof masak: I didn't get around to write a real fix
20:22 tadzik the Enum patch segfault?
20:22 masak aye
20:23 nwellnhof masak: I leave that to the Perl6 guys
20:23 bjarneh left #perl6
20:23 masak nwellnhof: but that's just a SMOP now, right?
20:23 eternaleye left #perl6
20:23 nwellnhof masak: Yes, should be
20:23 eternaleye joined #perl6
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20:26 nwellnhof masak: I assume you can tell the right people
20:26 tadzik masak: perl6-Acme-Meow installed.
20:26 tadzik but you won't like it
20:26 tadzik it's a bit like... neutro
20:26 masak :)
20:26 masak nwellnhof: sure! again, thanks.
20:27 masak rakudo: say $*VM.perl
20:27 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«Cannot substr on a null string␤  in 'Pair::perl' at line 1␤  in <anon> at line 4850:CORE.setting␤  in 'Any::join' at line 1␤  in 'EnumMap::perl' at line 4850:CORE.setting␤  in 'Pair::perl' at line 4572:CORE.setting␤  in <anon> at line 4850:CORE.setting␤  in 'Any::join' at line
20:27 p6eval ..1␤  …
20:27 * masak submits rakudobug
20:27 nwellnhof masak: pas de quoi, bye
20:28 nwellnhof left #perl6
20:28 tadzik masak: perl6-File-Tools installed. Everything works :)
20:29 moritz_ rakudo: %*ENV.perl
20:29 masak rakudo: say $*VM<config><osname>
20:29 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«Method 'key' not found for invocant of class 'String'␤  in <anon> at line 4844:CORE.setting␤  in 'Any::join' at line 1␤  in 'EnumMap::perl' at line 4850:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/x5oqEYq1iJ␤»
20:29 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«linux␤»
20:29 masak could somebody tell me what $*VM<config><osname> gives on a Windows box?
20:29 tadzik and Term::ANSIColor. Separating ufo does the job
20:30 masak tadzik: so poc shells out to ufo?
20:30 tadzik masak: will show
20:30 tadzik http://pb.rbfh.de/2zqUBTqhj1tze
20:30 tadzik scroll down :)
20:31 tadzik duh, it's actually not checking the result
20:31 sorear good * #perl6
20:31 masak sorear! \o/
20:32 masak tadzik: please use that fix to test as many projects as possible and mark your findings in the writeboard under a separate section. kthx.
20:32 masak you may commit the fix if you want, but I will supersede it in a little while :)
20:32 tadzik I don't mind :)
20:32 szbalint moritz_: I need to stop reading the abstruse goose archives. It would be like eating too much excellent chocolate in one day.
20:33 szbalint :S
20:33 * masak is almost out of excellent chocolate
20:33 smash_ submitted a perl6 talk to codebits (an international event in portugal all about new technologies) http://4lyz.sl.pt
20:33 tadzik masak: how about a branch?
20:34 masak tadzik: sure, if you like.
20:34 masak tadzik: I don't want pls to be dependent on ufo in the long run. that's why I inlined ufo.
20:34 masak tadzik: it's also not dependent on json, despite using JSON::Tiny. it has its own.
20:35 tadzik Yeah, I know that
20:36 masak I'd like for the module installer to be dependency-free :)
20:36 tadzik I like the idea too, that's how neutro was (is) rolling :)
20:37 Guest15482 left #perl6
20:37 masak I'm glad I have the main neutro developer helping me with pls tonight :)
20:37 tadzik :D
20:37 tadzik I can't decrypt that code, is run-logged changing the directory back and forth?
20:38 Ross joined #perl6
20:38 tadzik okay, it doesn't
20:38 masak no. because it's a subshell, it doesn't need to.
20:38 masak ok, seems the answer to my above question is 'MSWin32'
20:39 bjarneh joined #perl6
20:39 masak at least according to the Rakudo sources.
20:39 sorear TimToady: how does my ($x) = expr; fit together?
20:40 TimToady as a pseudo assignment that forces the sig to turn into a list of lvalues
20:40 tadzik masak: gitpushed
20:41 TimToady so needs to be handled in the = node, like most pseudoassign decisions
20:42 masak tadzik: looks good.
20:42 tadzik masak: looks bad for me, but it works :) Also updated some info on the writeboard
20:42 sorear TimToady: what sort of runtime operation does it do?
20:43 masak tadzik++
20:43 sorear it doesn't seem like a list assignment, unless that's really parsing as my $x; ($x,) = expr
20:43 TimToady ($x) = is always list assignment, as in Perl 5
20:44 TimToady whether or not there's a my in front
20:45 sorear I am not thinking I understand list assignment
20:46 sorear What does that look like in terms of &infix:<=>?
20:46 tadzik masak: what is the policy against a module with no tests?
20:47 masak tadzik: no tests: all tests vacuously pass.
20:47 masak that is assuming there's no Makefile or we're on Windows :)
20:48 tadzik hmm
20:49 tadzik fixed that then
20:49 tadzik oh crap, you use spaces for indentation too?
20:50 masak always.
20:50 tadzik I'd like some vim comment
20:51 masak the one usually appearing at the bottom of a script? sure, no prob.
20:51 tadzik thanks
20:51 tadzik I got used to tabs
20:52 masak I use spaces for indentation in all my code nowadays.
20:52 [particle] tabs are teh suck
20:52 tadzik [particle]: reason?
20:52 [particle] everybody has a different idea of how wide a tab should be
20:53 tadzik that's why you can adjust it in your editor
20:53 [particle] and if not everyone uses the same editor?
20:53 tadzik so when everyone uses tabs, everyone sets his own tabwidth and everyone sees what he wants
20:53 tadzik why should they?
20:53 Mowah joined #perl6
20:53 [particle] sometimes my "editor" is cat.
20:54 [particle] when it's not vim.  it's *never* emacs... mainly because i don't even know how to exit emacs.
20:54 tadzik then you see the tabs as your shell defines
20:54 shade\ left #perl6
20:54 tadzik I don't see the poing
20:54 [particle] yes, and sometimes it's not my shell, i'm ssh'd to some random user.
20:55 masak tadzik: your last commit is fine, but we need to tweak it after my commit goes in and Makefile is no longer assumed to exist at the testing stage.
20:55 [particle] tabs are env-specific, spaces never are.
20:55 tadzik when you use spaces as tabs, everyone looking at the code or working on it is forced to use your specific preference
20:55 tadzik masak: sure thing
20:55 tadzik that's why I like tabs. I can adjust them
20:57 [particle] i used to like tabs because it made files smaller, but then google said "disk is cheap, everybody can have XXGB for email" (although my employer hasn't caught up, we get a 30MB!! limit)
20:57 masak tadzik: I like having code that looks the same on everyone's screen.
20:57 masak tadzik: specifically, I tend to code with a self-imposed  80-column limit.
20:57 [particle] 80-col++
20:58 [particle] though i've agreed to use 100-col at my current job.  that hasn't changed my 80-col style at all :)
20:59 shade\ joined #perl6
20:59 tadzik masak: on the other hand, I like 8 spaces, you like 4. I open pls, I see 8 spaces. You open, you see 4. You code, I code, effect is the same, no one needs to adjust
21:00 masak tadzik: I hear you.
21:00 masak tadzik: just saying that 80-cols is more important to me than that tabs-based flexibility.
21:03 tadzik I see
21:07 masak heh. found a bug: http://github.com/masak/proto/commit/c1030​2d38f4e0532c1982043abb57e32849c3ee7#L0R167 should have a set of parentheses. :)
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21:10 itz hmm I have to say as a naive perl6 user typing one liners in that it all seems to make sense
21:11 tadzik what all?
21:11 sorear I would like a nice benchmarking grammar
21:12 masak itz: glad to hear it.
21:12 sorear Not too complicated, it should compile quickly, and not use any features much beyond strings, char classes, subrules, LTM, and quantifiers
21:12 sorear anyone have one? (masak?)
21:13 masak I only have one in Perl 6.
21:13 masak and it doesn't do LTM.
21:13 sorear masak: grammar, not grammar engine
21:13 masak ohohoh
21:13 sorear I want something like STD or Perl6::Grammar but 10 (5) times smaller
21:13 masak how about JSON::Tiny?
21:13 tylercurtis http://github.com/ekiru/toylisp/​blob/master/lib/LISP/Grammar.pm is pretty simple. Even simpler if you go back a commit.
21:13 masak dunno if it uses LTM, though. probably not, since nqp-rx doesn't have it.
21:14 sorear masak: link?
21:14 masak hugme: show json
21:14 hugme masak: the following people have power over 'json': c⁣olomon, m⁣asak, m⁣oritz_, v⁣iklund. URL: http://github.com/moritz/json/
21:15 sorear hugme++
21:18 Ross left #perl6
21:19 masak wait, scratch that. there should be no .IO at all on that line. moritz_ is just confusing me :)
21:20 Ross joined #perl6
21:20 mikehh_ is now known as mikehh
21:29 tadzik masak: I'm going to sleep for today, don't mind some hacking tomorrow
21:29 masak sounds good.
21:29 tadzik see you then! o/
21:29 masak I'll commit this thing I'm working on, then I'm heading to bed as well.
21:29 masak thanks for tonight. it was fun :)
21:29 tylercurtis left #perl6
21:29 tadzik same here :)
21:29 tadzik g.night()
21:29 tadzik left #perl6
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21:53 * sorear fudges the JSON Tiny grammar to not use ^, $, **, or ~
21:59 arnsholt sorear: Parrotlog's grammar might work as well
21:59 arnsholt The operator parsing is a bit fiddly though
21:59 masak how does one fudge ^ and $ ?
22:01 sorear masak: I removed them entirely, since they were redundant
22:01 masak huh.
22:01 * masak looks
22:02 * sorear currently can't get the grammar to match anything at all
22:03 masak right, TOP is a rule, so it will never backtrack. but it seems to me that without the $ it might match less than the whole target string.
22:05 sorear more to the point, it's a grammar
22:05 sorear Regex.ACCEPTS loops to find a valid start point even if the regex itself doesn't backtrack
22:05 sorear Grammar.parse doesn't
22:06 masak S05 mentions this?
22:08 sorear S05-grammar/parse_and_parsefile.t does
22:08 sjohnson left #perl6
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22:13 sorear aha!
22:13 sorear niecza: say "{}" ~~ / \{ <.ws> \} /
22:13 shade\ left #perl6
22:13 sorear niecza: say '{}' ~~ / \{ <.ws> \} /
22:13 p6eval niecza a8f84cb: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.InvalidCastException: Cannot cast from source type to destination type.␤  at Niecza.Kernel.UnboxAny (Niecza.IP6 o) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at SAFE.New_197C (Niecza.Frame th) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at Niecza.Frame.Continue
22:13 p6eval ..() [0…
22:13 p6eval niecza a8f84cb: OUTPUT«0␤»
22:13 masak rakudo: say "{}"
22:14 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«Nil()␤»
22:14 ingy POSTing upload for Mousse-0.01.tar.gz
22:14 ingy PAUSE add message sent ok [200]
22:14 sorear rakudo: say '{}' ~~ / \{ <.ws> \} /
22:14 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«{}␤»
22:15 shade\ joined #perl6
22:15 * ingy just made OO for CPAN modules trivial
22:16 * ingy expects to catch a lot of grief for it :)
22:16 * TimToady throws ingy some grief :)
22:19 ingy actually I made OO trivial a couple weeks ago, but today I made Moose OO trivial
22:19 sorear TimToady: how does ($x) = foo; desugar into function calls differently from $x = foo; -> &infix:<=>($x, foo); ?
22:19 * ingy catches TimToady's grief and raises it.
22:21 ejs left #perl6
22:21 * sorear now has an 883K working JsonTiny.exe
22:22 [particle] what does it emit?
22:23 dalek niecza: 56edb23 | sorear++ | lib/Cursor.cs:
22:23 dalek niecza: add a NIECZA_RX_TRACE flag
22:23 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/5​6edb23a102e60b635d18462f8165e3cce4f3d61
22:23 dalek niecza: 1d65d67 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
22:23 dalek niecza: <.ws> should match next to \W, not just \S
22:23 dalek niecza: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/1​d65d67b7e1a612322b3eb7669d5a0207f28ccd1
22:24 sorear [particle]: "parsed X characters"
22:24 sorear I'm trying to benchmark parser improvements, mostly
22:25 mikehh left #perl6
22:25 sorear of that 883K, about 400K is a copy of the setting and runtime system (3000 LOC of C# and Perl6), and the other 400K are the 44 line JSON::Tiny grammar itself
22:25 sorear the regex compiler needs work. :/
22:32 masak someone has written to p6c complaining that one cannot run parrot on a .pir file generated by perl6.
22:33 masak http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.​perl6.compiler/2010/08/msg6693.html
22:45 masak json installs again! \o/
22:46 sorear running the niecza-compiled JSON::Tiny grammar against the largest single test in the JSON::Tiny suite now...
22:46 sorear 601 chars in 35 seconds
22:47 masak that sounds like a benchmark that could be improved.
22:52 masak phenny: tell tadzik that I got json to install again with the latest changes to pls/poc :)
22:52 phenny masak: I'll pass that on when tadzik is around.
22:56 lue ohai o/
22:58 whiteknight joined #perl6
22:58 lue how do you change a line of text on the terminal? [like make spectest does with its status bar]
22:58 kid51 joined #perl6
22:59 masak lue: there's a control character called 'carriage return'.
22:59 masak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_return
23:00 ingy masak: I'm free to work on yaml-pm6 in about 38 hours :)
23:01 fod joined #perl6
23:01 ingy make that 41 :P
23:01 masak hm... it's more like 58 hours here.
23:01 * ingy forgot he was on the east coast
23:01 masak :)
23:02 TimToady here's a cool one, fsdo "cool": http://rosettacode.org/wiki​/Monte_Carlo_methods#Perl_6
23:02 * ingy heads off to the beach
23:02 ingy o/
23:02 TimToady \o
23:02 TimToady .oO(Life's a beach, and then you dry...)
23:03 masak TimToady: ooh, nice use of R/
23:05 * lue wonders how long it is until he starts using P6 phrases in daily writing/conversation. He already wants to use ! for 'not'.
23:05 kid51 Question about July release of Rakudo Star
23:06 kid51 Let's assume that I unwrapped the tarball into directory rakudo-star-2010.08/ and built rakudo there.
23:06 kid51 So my perl6 executable is found in rakudo-star-2010.08/
23:06 kid51 Now suppose I have limited disk space.
23:07 kid51 What parts of what I just downloaded and build can I throw away and still have perl6 work?
23:08 kid51 (Note: I'm going to face this situation every month, and I doubt I'm alone here.  So whatever the answer is, it should be added to the README or to a file pointed at by the README.)
23:09 Tene A reasonable installation should let you install to a different directory, and then delete all the build directories.
23:10 Tene I don't know whether that's the case or not yet.
23:11 kid51 I want to build rakudo star on a monthly basis solely so that I can learn perl6 (via the Using Perl6 PDF).  So I want the *least complicated instructions possible*.
23:11 kid51 I want those instructions so that anyone in my local Perl6 study group can get the results right away.
23:12 s_mosher kid51, won't you want to keep that space reserved for the build process anyway?
23:12 kid51 But I already have it built.  I have gotten to hello world.
23:13 kid51 But I'm at 95% disk full -- on the same disk on which I do all my Parrot testing.
23:13 s_mosher right, but you'll be needing it again in a month, and so on, won't you?
23:13 kid51 I don't want to approach Perl 6 or Rakudo Star *as one of their developers*.  I want to approach them strictly *as a user*.
23:14 s_mosher I'm just trying to offer a non-solution by solving a different problem instead :P
23:14 kid51 In the course of a month, I have to build and test multiple Parrot branches -- which I can't do with 95% disk full.
23:20 s_mosher ah. it seems to work here with just the contents of the bin directory. I have no idea whether that's a sustainable option. I'm really not in a position to offer advice.
23:25 mberends left #perl6
23:27 masak rakudo: my @a = 1; for 1..10 { my $last = @a[*-1]; say $last; push @a, (sub ($s) { $s + 1 })($last) }; say @a.perl
23:27 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«[1]␤»
23:27 masak could somebody confirm to me that this is not expected behaviour?
23:28 masak I expect [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
23:29 sorear what's with the say $last?
23:29 masak it doesn't print.
23:29 masak it's as if the loop doesn't run.
23:30 masak rakudo: my @a = 1; for 1..10 { my $last = @a[*-1]; say $last; push @a, $last + 1 }; say @a.perl
23:30 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11]␤»
23:30 * masak submits rakudobug
23:34 alester left #perl6
23:38 Tene masak: I wonder if it's calling 'last' somewhere, and therefore finishing the loop.
23:39 Tene try it with s/last/lolcats/g or something, I'm curious
23:39 masak huh :)
23:39 masak rakudo: my @a = 1; for 1..10 { my $lolcats = @a[*-1]; say $last; push @a, (sub ($s) { $s + 1 })($lolcats) }; say @a.perl
23:39 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$last' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/DiXfFApHqA:22)␤»
23:39 masak rakudo: my @a = 1; for 1..10 { my $lolcats = @a[*-1]; say $lolcats; push @a, (sub ($s) { $s + 1 })($lolcats) }; say @a.perl
23:39 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«[1]␤»
23:39 masak good guess. but no.
23:40 mberends joined #perl6
23:41 masak rakudo: my @pascal := [1], -> @p { [0, @p Z+ @p, 0] } ... *; say @pascal[^10].perl
23:41 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«(1, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any)␤»
23:41 masak also, this should work, should it not?
23:42 masak rakudo: my @pascal = [1], -> @p { [0, @p Z+ @p, 0] } ... *; say @pascal[^10].perl
23:42 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
23:43 masak does '(timeout)' have to be inside the OUTPUT«...» block? :)
23:44 * masak submits rakudobug for the binding thing
23:45 lue oh, does evalbot now say (timeout) for timeouts? [In which case I vote you replace the whole OUTPUT«...» with (timeout)]
23:48 masak oh! it's because := thinks it binds an item, not a list.
23:48 ash_ left #perl6
23:48 * lue hides
23:50 ash_ joined #perl6
23:51 TimToady rakudo hasn't caught up with recent spec change on :=
23:52 TimToady my @pascal := do [1], -> @p { [0, @p Z+ @p, 0] } ... *; say @pascal[^10].perl
23:52 TimToady rakudo: my @pascal := do [1], -> @p { [0, @p Z+ @p, 0] } ... *; say @pascal[^10].perl
23:52 masak ...and I don't see a rakudobug for it, so submitting one anyway.
23:52 p6eval rakudo df38ac: OUTPUT«([1], [1, 1], [1, 2, 1], [1, 3, 3, 1], [1, 4, 6, 4, 1], [1, 5, 10, 10, 5, 1], [1, 6, 15, 20, 15, 6, 1], [1, 7, 21, 35, 35, 21, 7, 1], [1, 8, 28, 56, 70, 56, 28, 8, 1], [1, 9, 36, 84, 126, 126, 84, 36, 9, 1])␤»
23:52 masak TimToady++ # nice workaround
23:52 masak I'll use that in my blog post.
23:54 masak lue: well, sometimes it gives output *and* times out. :)
23:56 [Coke] joined #perl6
23:58 [Coke] masak: 77462 starts with p6eval /reply/, not the send that generated it.
23:58 phenny [Coke]: 25 Aug 21:00Z <moritz_> tell [Coke] could you please add http://ttjjss.wordpress.com/category/perl/feed/ (nick tadzik, realname Tadeusz Sośnierz) to planetsix? thank you
23:58 masak [Coke]: oops. fixing.

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