Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-09-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:14 dalek niecza/mm: d305646 | sorear++ | src/ (4 files):
00:14 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] Implement variable commoning
00:14 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/d30564606a1735889374fe8bb7c455504d6ffafe
00:14 dalek niecza/mm: 499e995 | sorear++ | src/ (3 files):
00:14 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] Change Optimizer::Beta to work with new model
00:14 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/499e9954560c6c1761ac7b64acfa6efeea217365
00:21 plobsing sorear: someone will notice and complain about eval memory leaks. see http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/783 .
00:25 diakopter plobsing: interesting; thank you
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02:55 araujo http://ideone.com/arje9
02:55 araujo :)
02:57 colomon ?
02:58 colomon ah, that's your code?
02:58 araujo colomon, yeah
02:59 colomon can you explain what's going on there?
02:59 araujo just added initial string support
02:59 colomon I mean, I can figure out the algorithms.
02:59 colomon that's your language?
02:59 araujo yeah colomon
02:59 colomon Why does it say the language is Erlang?
03:00 araujo colomon, oh, well, just chose the one that idone colored more fun
03:00 araujo hehehe
03:01 colomon ah!
03:01 araujo >:]
03:01 colomon araujo++ # lambda!
03:01 araujo hehe :D
03:01 araujo still lot of stuff to define and do though ... :P
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03:42 sorear jnthn: hey...
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04:44 satyavvd ls
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04:58 sjohnson ls -l
05:00 plobsing rm -rf *
05:01 sjohnson DOTN
05:01 sjohnson DO'T!
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06:34 moritz_ good morning
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06:37 mberends good mor<tab> moritz_
06:38 * mberends -> $work
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06:40 sorear good morning moritz_
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07:22 mathw \o/
07:23 mathw DB are working on setting up a direct ICE service from London to Frankfurt
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07:44 szbalint good morning.
07:44 sjn o7
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08:07 moritz_ good morning
08:07 sjohnson hi
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08:28 masak morning, 6ers.
08:28 moritz_ mornin' masak
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08:34 mathw o/ masak
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08:39 sorear hello masak!
08:39 masak hi!
08:39 masak sorear: nope. haven't played with mowyw. my primary inspiration is Hakyll.
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08:41 masak [backlog] ok, someone please explain what's so evil about &eval. I know everyone keeps cargo-culting that it is indeed evil -- and believe me, I see the opportunities for shooting yourself in the foot with it -- but why "evil", and not just "power tool, be careful".
08:42 masak s/\.$/?/
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08:43 * masak looks at mowyw
08:44 sorear masak: "evil" is a colorful way of saying "power tool, be careful"
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08:46 moritz_ masak: it's just "evil" if you interpolate non-sanitized user input into eval strings, and don't check $! after it
08:46 moritz_ masak: problem is, it's often hard to meaningfully sanitize the user input
08:47 sorear eval is a great tool for some kinds of metaprogramming
08:47 sorear the test suite would be much more awkward without it, for instance
08:47 sorear like the test saying that you can use NUL as string delimiters
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08:49 masak moritz_: full, full ACK about user input. I think it's that part that should be emphasized, rather than &eval per se. &system is just as bad in that sense.
08:49 masak er, I mean &run :)
08:49 sorear can we get rid of string 'system' already
08:50 masak sorear: yes, great for metaprogramming. that's what I'm after. but it's being stigmatized, just like &goto.
08:50 sorear or rename it to &shell or something
08:50 masak sorear: get rid of string 'system'? whaddyamean?
08:51 sorear masak: run() should not require escaping; it should take an array of strings
08:51 sorear always
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08:52 moritz_ well, it's kinda useful to use shell meta chars in perl 5's system()
08:52 moritz_ for things like system("foo > foo.out")
08:52 sorear yeah we can keep &shell-execute or something
08:52 sorear but lazy people should be steered towards string-list
08:52 moritz_ or maybe a run(:shell, $command)
08:52 moritz_ agreed
08:52 florz I guess it would be sensible to have a larger distance between what requires escaping and what doesn't
08:54 * sorear wonders if it would be OK to declare "This is how &run looks on POSIX systems, and kinda-POSIX ones like DOS 2+ and WinNT.  If your system is not POSIX at all, &run could have a completely different signature."
08:55 * masak thinks that 'kinda-POSIX' is a very charitable description of DOS
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09:14 jnthn Morning, #perl6
09:14 * jnthn has decided that meatspace is dangerous. Somebody in meatspace had a cold, and now so do I... :/
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09:16 sorear jnthn: I saw what you did there...
09:16 masak jnthn: also, meatspace is buggy, badly documented, and insufficiently optimized.
09:20 jnthn masak: wait, what, I thought that was the description for Rakudo?
09:21 masak dang. I keep getting those two mixed up.
09:21 jnthn :P
09:21 masak :)
09:22 sorear niecza/mm is coming along nicely
09:23 jnthn sorear: Nice
09:23 jnthn sorear: I got some decent progress in on the Parrot port of 6model at the weekend too :-)
09:23 jnthn Everybody's hacking on meta-models! :-)
09:23 masak sorear: niecza/nm?
09:24 moritz_ jnthn: and 'nom' is 'new object model'? :-)
09:24 jnthn Yes. :-)
09:24 masak om -> nom
09:24 sorear masak: I'm playing with a new metamodel too, but it's not the same kind of metamodel
09:25 sorear my metamodel is more concerned with LexInfo and Sub stuff
09:25 sorear and .WHO
09:25 sorear basically niecza/mm has a concept of 'BEGIN time'
09:25 sorear and a lot of stuff that used to be delegated to INIT is now correctly done in the compiler
09:26 moritz_ does it properly nest?
09:26 jnthn sorear: Heh, I blug about that very topic last night...
09:26 moritz_ ie BEGIN { say 1; BEGIN { say 2 } }
09:26 jnthn http://6guts.wordpress.com/2010/09/20/gradual-typing-merged-mops-and-bounded-serialization/
09:27 sorear moritz_: executing Perl 6 code at begin time is a long way off
09:27 sorear this is more about stuff like package Foo { our $x }
09:27 sorear the stashes are constructed in the compiler now
09:27 jnthn sorear: Ah, OK, then it wasn't what I blogged about. :-)
09:28 jnthn sorear: Though I guess related-ish. :-)
09:28 sorear that means that we can accurately resolve variables in the compiler, all the time
09:28 sorear jnthn: our goals are the same; I just need a different set of refactors to enable gradual typing
09:28 jnthn Ah, OK
09:30 sorear niecza/mm can accept Perl 6 code now and spit out a YAML dump with the full class hierarchy + package nesting graph
09:30 sorear and subs
09:30 sorear important features still missing: code generation, setting stubbing, module loading
09:31 dalek niecza/mm: 9f805a5 | sorear++ | src/ (2 files):
09:31 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] track static pad instantiation better
09:31 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/9f805a5c06187c9d4e62901ce8c28f4ca84eca4b
09:31 dalek niecza/mm: ec9350b | sorear++ | src/ (2 files):
09:31 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] Implement some visitors for the moptree
09:31 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ec9350b2f3c40ea4fd8e162b2f22dbc644816562
09:31 dalek niecza/mm: f8d692b | sorear++ | src/ (3 files):
09:31 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] start prototyping the new code generator
09:31 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f8d692bb1eecfac2b12f1ec5f8d30a5907c7f086
09:32 * sorear wonders if a non-executing class hierarchy extractor would be useful to anyone else
09:32 moritz_ sorear: for documentation purposes, sure
09:33 * sorear out
09:33 moritz_ jnthn: is the usage of .new_type (vs. new_class as currently implemented) intentional?
09:34 moritz_ I can see the benefit of a more broadly named method, just checking
09:34 jnthn moritz_: new_type is what I've called it in 6model and the Parrot port of it so far.
09:34 jnthn moritz_: I'm not totally settled on it.
09:34 jnthn moritz_: But new_class when you're creating a role feels, well, odd.
09:35 moritz_ aye :-)
09:42 moritz_ jnthn++ #that blog post
09:44 masak jnthn: "Thus the most we can say is that it’s narrower than the top type, Mu." -- I'm unfamiliar with the terminology here, but wouldn't "narrower than Mu" exclude Mu?
09:45 jnthn oh, grr
09:45 moritz_ "at least as narrow"
09:45 jnthn Yeah, "at least as narrow"
09:45 masak aye.
09:45 jnthn oh, moritz_++ beat me to it.
09:46 jnthn masak++ # fixed blog post
09:47 masak jnthn++ # blog post
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09:53 flussence rakudo: sub a(Num $b) { say $b }; my $x = 1; a($x) # is this the right way to accept any number type?
09:53 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$b'; expected Num but got Int instead␤  in 'a' at line 22:/tmp/ov64CzgVtH␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/ov64CzgVtH␤»
09:54 moritz_ flussence: if you want to accept Num, Int and Rat, use  sub a(Real $b) { ... }   instead
09:54 moritz_ if you also want to accept Complex, use Numeric instead
09:54 flussence oh, I didn't know it had those
09:54 moritz_ S02 and S32/Numeric are your friends :-)
09:55 seeme joined #perl6
09:56 seeme Hihi you guys
09:56 masak hi seeme!
09:56 risou joined #perl6
09:56 seeme I'm new to perl6 alright
09:57 masak alright! \o/
09:57 masak we're pretty new, too :)
09:57 masak except TimToady, he's been at it for 10 years...
09:57 moritz_ perl6: say "welcome seeme"
09:57 seeme I have one question and hopefully to find an answer.. is it possible to install Net::ssl perl module on windows
09:57 p6eval pugs, rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«welcome seeme␤»
09:57 seeme welcome in
09:58 moritz_ seeme: did you find a Perl 6 Net::SSL module somewhere?
09:58 masak seeme: it sounds like a Perl 5 question.
09:58 seeme yes
09:58 seeme =]
09:58 masak seeme: you might find better help at #perl-help over on irc.perl.org
09:59 seeme thank you
09:59 seeme peace
09:59 seeme left #perl6
09:59 masak peace.
09:59 moritz_ http://smolder.parrot.org/app/projects/report_details/110 this looks like a report from a system where t/spec is still svn, and thus hanging
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10:00 masak '...and thus hanging'?
10:00 moritz_ though I'm not quite sure
10:00 moritz_ 'svn up' or 'git pull' won't do anything useful in there
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10:02 moritz_ hm no, then more series tests would fail
10:02 moritz_ then I'm worried about a high number of platform specific failures
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10:09 seeme It's a perl conf irc channel right
10:09 moritz_ we are discussing Perl 6 development and usage here
10:09 moritz_ or which channel was your question about?
10:10 masak seeme: http://perl6.org/
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10:15 seeme Ah this channel belongs to rakudo star developers
10:15 moritz_ not only, but many of them are in here
10:15 moritz_ but there are also people working on other Perl 6 compilers, the spec, the test suite, modules etc.
10:15 tadzik it's rather "everything Perl 6"
10:16 * moritz_ implemented a new metric for $work, and now has trouble interpreting it :-)
10:17 jnthn .oO( shoulda implemented a new imperial ;-) )
10:18 seeme I'm writing dns poisoning exploit in perl, just to make it easy to use in public and i guess that once again i've missed it this is not the right channel i guess
10:18 * moritz_ wonders if a #perl6-without-puns would have any chance to succeed
10:18 tadzik moritz_: oh, who would sit there?
10:18 moritz_ tadzik: probably just bots
10:18 jnthn I'd probably get kicked within like 10 minutes if I joined.
10:19 tadzik moritz_: I very doubt it. purl being silenced? Bah
10:19 moritz_ tadzik: purl and jnthn would get bans from the start :-)
10:19 tadzik (:
10:19 tadzik btw guys, how do you like: Perl 6 -- keeping one liners one liners, making big things maintainable
10:20 seeme =]
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10:21 moritz_ tadzik: +1
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11:37 Kodi rakudo: sub f() { my $n = 10; gather { 1 while take --$n } }; say f.join; .print for f; say ""; # Bug or feature?
11:37 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«0000000000␤9876543210␤»
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11:38 masak bug. known.
11:38 Kodi Okay.
11:38 masak decontainerizing not working properly.
11:38 moritz_ take() doesn't propery decontainerize its arguments
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11:39 tadzik speaking of bugs:
11:39 tadzik rakudo: (1, 2, 3, 4, 6).first(9).Bool.perl.say # shouldn't it be Bool::False?
11:39 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«0␤»
11:39 moritz_ yes
11:39 tadzik rakudo: (1, 2, 3, 4, 6).first(6).Bool.perl.say
11:39 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
11:39 tadzik known?
11:39 moritz_ rakudo: say (1).first(2).WHAT
11:39 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«Failure()␤»
11:40 moritz_ rakudo: say Failure.new().Bool.perl
11:40 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«too few positional arguments: 1 passed, 2 (or more) expected␤  in main program body at line 1␤»
11:40 moritz_ tadzik: not submitted, afaict
11:40 moritz_ rakudo: say Failure.new(3).Bool.perl
11:40 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«Method 'handled' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤  in main program body at line 1␤»
11:40 moritz_ rakudo: sail fail().Bool.WHAT
11:40 p6eval rakudo 523da4:  ( no output )
11:40 moritz_ rakudo: say fail().Bool.WHAT
11:40 p6eval rakudo 523da4:  ( no output )
11:40 moritz_ rakudo: say fail().Bool.perl
11:40 p6eval rakudo 523da4:  ( no output )
11:41 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = fail(); $x.defined; say $x.Bool.WHAT
11:41 p6eval rakudo 523da4:  ( no output )
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12:01 takadonet morning all
12:02 moritz_ morning' takadonet
12:02 takadonet moritz_: how are u sir?
12:02 moritz_ takadonet: a bit tired, but otherwise very well
12:04 moritz_ yesterday we had a very nice evening with board and card games, self made lasagna, three types of cookies and @tasty_beverages
12:04 colomon sounds lovely
12:05 takadonet looks like you had a great weekend
12:05 Trashlord joined #perl6
12:05 moritz_ indeed :-)
12:06 moritz_ how about you?
12:06 moritz_ s/you/yourself/
12:06 takadonet Had my stag party this weekend and it was lots of fun
12:06 * moritz_ is better at writing grammars than actually using correct grammar :-)
12:06 takadonet Getting marriage next Sat
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12:07 moritz_ oooh, congratulations!
12:07 takadonet thanks!
12:08 jnthn takadonet: Congrats! :-)
12:08 tadzik congratulations! :)
12:08 * tadzik submits rakudobug
12:08 tadzik (not related)
12:09 moritz_ phenny: tell masak that some code seems to be incomplete at http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/idiomatic-perl-6
12:09 phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
12:09 jnthn Was gonna say, getting married is a rakudobug these days... :-)
12:09 tadzik http://rakudo.org/status btw, the graph looks funny
12:09 * moritz_ failed to submit one last month :-)
12:09 moritz_ tadzik: we should really remove it
12:10 moritz_ since it's not updated anymore, and we've reached consensus that those numbers are basically meaningless
12:13 tadzik look, moritz_
12:13 tadzik rakudo: (1, 2, 3, 4, 6).first(9).Bool.WHAT.say; (1, 2, 3, 4, 6).first(6).Bool.WHAT.say
12:13 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«Int()␤Bool()␤»
12:13 * tadzik investigates further
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12:17 tadzik so it's about Failure Boolificying to Int() rather than to Bool()
12:17 tadzik (is there a word: Boolification?)
12:18 moritz_ coercion to Bool
12:18 moritz_ truth test
12:18 tadzik bah, sent
12:18 moritz_ no problem
12:18 moritz_ we understand what you mean :-)
12:19 tadzik I think so :)
12:19 mathw truthifying
12:19 mathw we should have a competition
12:19 tadzik I find Perl 6 people quite ok about funnywordcreating
12:20 * moritz_ is, but he is German
12:20 moritz_ and Germans are creating words by concatenation all the time
12:20 tadzik doesn't matter I think
12:20 jnthn mathw: btw, where'd you hear about the London - Frankfurt ICE plan?
12:20 jnthn mathw: That'd be teh awesome...
12:21 moritz_ from Frankfurt it's only 2h by train to my place
12:21 moritz_ ok, 2.5h
12:22 gfldex jnthn: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/19/london-frankfurt-train-high-speed
12:22 mathw jnthn: unfortunately not until the end of 2013 even if it allg oes well
12:22 mathw jnthn: but I love that they're trying
12:23 jnthn Ooh, stop in cologne is nice too
12:23 jnthn Since I can get a sleeper train to there from here.
12:24 jnthn Though of course who knows if I'll still be here by 2013. :-)
12:24 jnthn Anyway, awesome that it's on the cards.
12:24 jnthn db++
12:26 mathw yeah if it happens I'll definitely be visiting Germany more
12:26 mathw a stop at cologne would be awesome to visit my aunt
12:26 mathw as it's easy to change for a dusseldorf train from there
12:26 mathw and then get the U-bahn to a couple of streets away from her house :)
12:26 mathw although I could probably do that now
12:26 mathw must be a way there from brussels
12:29 jnthn There's a direct Brussels - Cologne ICE.
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12:34 mathw awesome
12:35 mathw does it happen to stop at Düsseldorf?
12:36 jnthn I don't think so.
12:36 jnthn Liege and Aachen iirc
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12:42 mathw ah well
12:42 mathw two changes is still better than flying
12:42 mathw urgh
12:42 jnthn Aye
12:42 jnthn And since it's run by DB, there's a decent chance of it being on time.
12:42 mathw yup
12:43 mathw although that's irrelevant in a way, as I have to get to St Pancras on time and the Eurostar has to be on time too
12:43 jnthn Unlike crappy Skånetrafiken.
12:43 jnthn Well, true.
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12:48 mathw And that relies on East Midlands Trains
12:48 mathw so... err...
12:48 mathw leave plenty of time for your journey
12:48 [Coke] http://rt.perl.org/ "(perl 5.6 is not perl6. perl6 has not been released yet.) "
12:48 phenny [Coke]: 14 Sep 07:56Z <moritz_> tell [Coke] about http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2010-09-14#i_2822295
12:48 mathw ...
12:49 * moritz_ writes to the bug admins
12:49 [Coke] should probably provide them some text to point to the perl6 queue that they are already hosting.
12:49 [Coke] phenny: tell lichtkind - please give me the exact URL including the tag for your feed.
12:49 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when lichtkind is around.
12:49 [Coke] phenny: tell lichtkind to email me at will@coleda.com for that.
12:49 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when lichtkind is around.
12:52 mathw Does anybody have any experience of managing a big codebase consisting of various libraries and components which use those libraries, managed either as a single repository (by 'library' I don't mean anything that has its own release schedule) or separate ones?
12:54 * [Coke] wonders how you get to the front page of the perl5 tracker.
12:54 moritz_ currently it's a huge mess
12:54 tadzik . o O ( Rakudo #5 is not Perl 5 )
12:55 moritz_ rt.perl.org and bug6.perl.org show the same page
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13:18 baLi_antiQ hello
13:18 baLi_antiQ night all
13:18 baLi_antiQ how are you ??
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13:30 moritz_ rakudo: multi f ($ (Int $value)) { say "Int $value" }; multi f( $ (Str $value)) { say "Str $value" }; f(3); f('foo')
13:31 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'f'. Available candidates are:␤:(Any  (Int $value))␤:(Any  (Str $value))␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/APQK9Ppsyn␤»
13:31 moritz_ rakudo: multi f ($ (Int $value)) { say "Int $value" }; multi f( $ (Str $value)) { say "Str $value" }; f('a' => 3); f('a' => 'foo')
13:31 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'f'. Available candidates are:␤:(Any  (Int $value))␤:(Any  (Str $value))␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/ki2Gl6432l␤»
13:31 moritz_ jnthn: should that work?
13:32 moritz_ after all the pairs have a .value method that returns an Int or a Str
13:32 jnthn Hmm
13:33 moritz_ thought it probably looks misleadingly declarative
13:33 moritz_ *though
13:33 jnthn rakudo: multi f ($ (Int :$value)) { say "Int $value" }; multi f( $ (Str :$value)) { say "Str $value" }; f('a' => 3); f('a' => 'foo')
13:33 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«Ambiguous dispatch to multi 'f'. Ambiguous candidates had signatures:␤:(Any  (Int :value($value)))␤:(Any  (Str :value($value)))␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/6gqT8mG2KW␤»
13:34 jnthn Interesting...
13:34 toebu moriz_ what does the lone $ do in f($ ... or rather what is it suposed todo ?
13:34 moritz_ ah right, need to be named
13:34 moritz_ toebu: it's an anonymous positional parameter
13:34 jnthn moritz_: Yeah...even then, I'm a tad surprised about the ambiguity though.
13:35 jnthn I'm not sure I understand why it's calling it out as ambiguous.
13:35 jnthn That's worth of investigation.
13:35 moritz_ and worth a ticket :-)
13:35 jnthn Sure, otherwise I'll forget. :-)
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13:37 ggoebel phenny, tell sorear "wonders if a non-executing class hierarchy extractor would be useful"... Sounds good for documentation. Also anything that moves us closer to being able to do static code analysis and dead code detection would be useful. Notes Alias' blog post on "Why Perl6 scares the hell out of me" (http://use.perl.org/~Alias/journal/35508)
13:37 phenny ggoebel: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
13:37 phenny ggoebel: 14 Sep 18:40Z <sorear> tell ggoebel Nowhere yet
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13:41 jnthn moritz_: My feeling is that the signature bindability check should only work for one of them.
13:41 moritz_ same here
13:41 moritz_ submitted as RT #77950
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13:42 jnthn oh duh
13:42 jnthn Looks like a stupid
13:42 jnthn Around line 255 of perl6multisub.pmc
13:43 jnthn The check at line 265 should probably be moved before the one at line 255.
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13:43 jnthn jnthn--
13:43 jnthn I bet there's another RT ticket that'd be fixed by that too.
13:44 moritz_ you mean
13:44 moritz_ info->bind_check = 1;
13:44 moritz_ should be set unconditionally?
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13:45 * moritz_ confused, ignore that
13:46 jnthn no no
13:46 jnthn /* If it's got a sub-signature, also need a bind check. */
13:46 moritz_ right
13:46 jnthn That check needs doing probably before the named and not slurpy one
13:46 moritz_ that needs to go before the continue;
13:46 jnthn Yeah, I think so.
13:46 jnthn That may be the fix for this bug.
13:47 moritz_ spectesting now...
13:47 jnthn If it doesn't, it's still a fix for something. :-)
13:47 jnthn oh, hang on...
13:48 jnthn No, I'm not sure it's wrong actually
13:48 jnthn Because it always sets bind_check before continue-ing.
13:48 moritz_ right
13:49 jnthn Oh!!
13:49 jnthn Er
13:49 jnthn It may not be a bug.
13:49 jnthn rakudo: multi f ($ (Int :$value!)) { say "Int $value" }; multi f( $ (Str :$value!)) { say "Str $value" }; f('a' => 3); f('a' => 'foo')
13:49 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'f'. Available candidates are:␤:(Any  (Int :value($value)!))␤:(Any  (Str :value($value)!))␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/DBB23kVew9␤»
13:50 jnthn OK, that looks more like one...
13:50 jnthn Thing is that it *can* match both signatures maybe if the parameter is optional
13:50 jnthn OTOH it should still fail the type check
13:50 jnthn So, hm
13:50 * moritz_ adds that to the ticket
13:50 jnthn rakudo: ('a' => 3).Capture.perl
13:50 p6eval rakudo 523da4:  ( no output )
13:50 jnthn rakudo: ('a' => 3).Capture.perl.say
13:50 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«\()␤»
13:50 jnthn Oh.
13:51 jnthn rakudo: (1/2).Capture.perl.say
13:51 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«\("numerator" => 1, "denominator" => 2)␤»
13:51 jnthn OK, pair capture coercion is FAIL
13:52 * moritz_ aborts spectest run
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13:53 jnthn Please add capture coercion busted note to ticket - I think that's what is really at the bottom of this.
13:53 jnthn er, Pair to Capture coercion.
13:54 moritz_ yes, did that
13:55 jnthn Thanks
13:55 jnthn moritz_++
13:57 moritz_ rakudo: say .WHAT for (a => 2).keys
13:57 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«Array()␤»
13:57 moritz_ I guess that should be Str, no?
13:58 * moritz_ tries to fix Pair capturification
13:58 jnthn I don't think that's why it's broken. (more)
13:59 jnthn I think the issue is that it uses attribute introspection and looks for those marked as having an accessor method.
13:59 jnthn And I guess for Pair it doesn't find that, perhaps 'cus Pair is written in PIR
13:59 moritz_ right
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14:01 moritz_ so the right fix would be to mark the $!key and $!value attributes as having an accessor
14:05 jnthn has $.key; has $.value; # does it in Perl 6.
14:05 moritz_ uhm
14:05 jnthn as opposed to $!key and $!value
14:05 moritz_ but don't we need to set the attributes from PIR somewhere, before the setting has been compiled?
14:05 jnthn Well, that may be why it's written in NQP, yeah.
14:06 jnthn er
14:06 jnthn gah
14:06 jnthn in PIR
14:06 Kodi rakudo: say join " ", <A B C D> >>~>> (1, 2, *)
14:06 p6eval rakudo 523da4: OUTPUT«A1 B2 CWhatever()<0x53b7240> D1␤»
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14:26 dalek roast: 665a134 | KodiB++ | S03-metaops/ (2 files):
14:26 dalek roast: Additions and unfudging for arguments ending with * to hypers and zips.
14:26 dalek roast: review: http://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/665a134c2a9a85047cc6190862067dd1ff4afdaf
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14:30 dalek rakudo: be80e96 | KodiB++ | src/core/ (2 files):
14:30 dalek rakudo: Made zips extend arguments ending with *.
14:30 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/be80e96315775c042db503f79500ff7777b10275
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14:35 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
14:36 tadzik good morning pmichaud
14:36 jnthn morning, pmichaud
14:37 jnthn Well, afternoon here akshually. :-)
14:38 mberends \o it's beer-time in .nl :)
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14:41 jnthn oh noes I'm in the wrong country!
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14:42 moritz_ it's Erlange.pm day today
14:43 * jnthn accidentally read that as Enlarge.pm
14:44 jnthn "The growing PM group!"
14:44 moritz_ missing n
14:44 moritz_ Erlangen.pm
14:44 * moritz_ really can't type today
14:44 * TimToady read it as Erlang.pm
14:45 * TimToady needs to get out more...
14:46 dalek 6model: a829cc5 | mberends++ | java/runtime/ (18 files):
14:46 dalek 6model: [java] complete all Reperesentations (P6num P6str etc) and refactor
14:46 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/a829cc5080d83577471cb4e84e4ebb3329d9abb2
14:46 jnthn wow!
14:46 jnthn mberends++
14:46 mberends "Reperesentations" :/
14:47 mberends jnthn: I'm beginning to think about java/compiler layout now
14:47 jnthn Oh, I just spot it as "long word that starts with an R" by now :-)
14:47 moritz_ R*
14:47 moritz_ erm
14:47 moritz_ R.*
14:48 moritz_ erm
14:48 moritz_ R\w+
14:48 mberends lol
14:48 jnthn heh :-)
14:48 jnthn mberends: Starting out with what's in dotnet/compiler may not be too bad.
14:49 jnthn mberends: Though I guess that way you'll kinda need to be able to handle the setting
14:49 mberends jnthn: I want to s/DNST/JST/ on that. good idea?
14:49 jnthn But you can always make a reall small setting first :-)
14:50 jnthn mberends: Moze byt...I did wonder if we might at some point be able to make some generic *ST that maps easily to JVM and the CLR.
14:50 jnthn mberends: But probably easiest to do as you suggest for now and unify it once we know how they both look.
14:51 mberends jnthn: yes, *ST seems the way to go, you should name it generically when we get that far.
14:51 jnthn Yeah
14:51 jnthn Let's work out what both sides want for now.
14:51 mberends oki
14:51 jnthn I suspect you won't have to change too much to get it to spit out Java rather than C\ though
14:51 jnthn er, C#
14:51 jnthn They're not *that* different at the level DNST is using 'em. ;-)
14:52 jnthn The real point of [DNST|JST] is that some day we'll go from it to bytecode.
14:52 jnthn But for now the text generation is vastly easier.
14:53 mberends yes, it does look that way. I want to first look at the toolchain dependencies, makefiles, scripts etc.
14:53 jnthn *nod*
14:54 jnthn Feel free to ask anything where bits are unclear.
14:55 mberends :) sure.  The $hotel.network blocks git and irc, so I'll be using webchat later
14:56 jnthn hotel--
14:57 mberends it's a nice place otherwise, I got a download speed of 6000kB/s on the netbook!
14:57 jnthn wow!
14:57 flussence uppercase B?!
14:57 mberends yes Bytes, so about 50Mbit/s
14:58 jnthn Nice. Which country?
14:58 mberends .nl at a college that includes a hotel school.
14:58 jnthn Aha :-)
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15:06 mathw jnthn, mberends: really pleased to see stuff going on in 6model like that :)
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15:06 mathw it's exciting
15:07 mathw jnthn: your blog post made me very excited about what's coming, and also made me feel a little stupid because it sounds really deep and magical
15:07 mathw I should probably learn how it works to make myself feel smarter
15:08 moritz_ it's scary that I actually had the feeling to understand it at all, at least at some basic level
15:08 mathw I could follow what jnthn was writing about
15:08 mathw But I'm not so sure about the actual mechanisms of implementation
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15:13 jnthn I think most of the problem there is not so much that the underlying data structures and algorithms are all that complex, so much as it is that most people don't have to implement stuff in this domain very often.
15:14 mathw you could be right
15:14 mathw it's very much outside my area of experience
15:14 mathw so would probably be very healthy to delve into, but I keep saying that about Rakudo too
15:14 * mathw -> home &
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15:15 moritz_ and one has to realize that classes aren't god given, but they are just data structures and algorithms like everything else
15:16 jnthn moritz_: Yeah. The only point that gets complex is that you can say "OK, classes are implemented in terms of this other thing", but you have to have some primitive that loops back on itself eventually.
15:16 moritz_ right
15:16 jnthn http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/blob/nom/src/metamodel/knowhow_bootstrapper.c is how that actually ends up looking in the Parrot impl though.
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15:24 Fox5600 sup guys, is the ordering of the junction matching supposed to matter ?
15:25 TimToady not to the programmer
15:25 Fox5600 rakudo: any("a","b","c") ~~ "a"'
15:25 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "any(\"a\",\"b"␤»
15:25 Fox5600 rakudo: any("a","b","c") ~~ "a"
15:25 p6eval rakudo be80e9:  ( no output )
15:25 TimToady so the implementation is free to do it in whatever order it thinks will falsify the fastest
15:25 jnthn rakudo: say any("a","b","c") ~~ "a"
15:25 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«0␤»
15:25 TimToady or to parallelize it
15:25 Fox5600 rakudo: "a" ~~ any("a","b","c")
15:25 p6eval rakudo be80e9:  ( no output )
15:26 Fox5600 rakudo: say "a" ~~ any("a","b","c")
15:26 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«1␤»
15:26 jnthn That's not junction ordering though.
15:26 jnthn That's just that smart-match isn't symmetric.
15:26 Fox5600 hmm, its a bug then ?
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15:26 jnthn No, it's correct
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15:27 jnthn The type of the thing on the right hand side of ~~ controls what kind of matching is done
15:27 Fox5600 hmm
15:27 Fox5600 I see
15:27 TimToady used to be symmetrical, but that made it impossible to optimize
15:27 jnthn "a" ~~ any("a","b","c") means "do any of the things in the junction smart-match against "a""
15:28 TimToady you couldn't even make a jump table for when 1 {}; when 2 {}; ...
15:28 jnthn The other way round is "if you stringify the junction, is it the string "a"
15:28 Fox5600 a got it
15:29 Fox5600 thanks
15:29 TimToady you're very welcome
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15:30 jnthn walk &
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15:38 moritz_ http://axisofeval.blogspot.com/2010/04/why-i-ignore-clojure.html somehow that's a weird mixture of true things and unequaled arrogance
15:39 moritz_ "And there have been and are so many smart people in this community, that if you think you've got the great new idea to push Lisp farther, you're wrong."
15:39 moritz_ "it's 1900. Everything that could have been invented has been invented by now. We understand the world at its core"
15:39 moritz_ or so
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15:48 Fox5600 how do I load parrot modules ? like Curses.pir ?
15:48 tadzik see Digest-MD5
15:50 Fox5600 wow, that work like the use ? will it export functions ?
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15:51 moritz_ star: use Digest::MD5; say "alive"
15:51 p6eval star 2010.07: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'Digest::MD5' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤  /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤  /home/p6eval/rakudo-star-2010.07/install/lib/parrot/2.6.0/languages/perl6/lib␤  .)␤»
15:51 Fox5600 http://github.com/cosimo/perl6-digest-md5/blob/master/lib/Digest/MD5.pm i presume
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15:57 tadzik Fox5600: yes indeed
15:57 tadzik you have to play a little to make it usable
15:58 Fox5600 I can only call functions from inside Q:PIR {} blocks then :/
15:59 moritz_ but you can wrap them in Perl 6 subs or methods
16:02 pmichaud if the parrot modules follow the exporting API, then they'd be usable from Rakudo.
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16:03 Fox5600 I tried use Curses:from<parrot>; but looks like it doesn't work yet
16:04 pmichaud Fox5600: I suspect that's because the Curses module likewise doesn't export its functions.
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16:08 Fox5600 you mean the Curses.pir doesn't support the export API from parrot
16:08 pmichaud right
16:09 Fox5600 but using the Digest::MD5 method will it work ?
16:09 pmichaud I think Digest::MD5 has been updated to support it.
16:10 pmichaud I'm not certain which ones have or have not been updated.
16:10 pmichaud I know there's been some work to get Digest::MD5 to work with Rakudo.
16:10 pmichaud But it's the only one I've heard about.
16:10 Fox5600 the export API is the pdd21 ?
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16:11 pmichaud pdd31_hll, I think.
16:12 moritz_ does dalek track rakudo/star ?
16:13 pmichaud I don't know.
16:14 * moritz_ greps
16:14 moritz_ seems like not.
16:14 * moritz_ changes it
16:15 tadzik speaking of modules, how about including neutro?
16:15 tadzik it's even make-independent these days
16:17 tadzik and I think I made it even work on windows, but still haven't poked jnthn enough to make him test it :)
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16:24 dalek mu: d98c4aa | moritz++ | misc/dalek-conf.json:
16:24 dalek mu: track rakudo/star in dalek
16:24 dalek mu: review: http://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/d98c4aa0f140d83491159ff33970c328aa8f2784
16:28 TimToady I don't want to push Lisp farther; I just want to pull the good bits of Lisp closer.  :)
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16:33 szbalint :q
16:33 * hugme hugs szbalint, good vi(m) user!
16:33 szbalint err yeah
16:40 * [Coke] wonders what the threshold of automatic bot response compared to user annoyance is.
16:40 [Coke] (in this channel).
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16:50 tadzik sorear: ping
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17:15 betterworld rakudo: my $foo = (3, 8); flat($foo).perl
17:15 p6eval rakudo be80e9:  ( no output )
17:15 patch is the next rakudo * release on the 30th?
17:16 betterworld rakudo: my $foo = (3, 8); flat($foo).perl.say
17:16 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«((3, 8))␤»
17:16 betterworld why are there two pairs of parentheses?  isn't flat supposed to.. flatten the thing?
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17:24 tadzik patch: 28th I think
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18:10 mfollett Anybody know who this page belongs to? http://gil.di.uminho.pt/users/smash/rakudo-bench.html
18:12 sjn mfollett: smash is your guy
18:12 PerlJam Looks like smash  to me
18:12 sjn seen smash?
18:12 aloha smash was last seen in #perl6 7 days 5 hours ago saying "hello everyone".
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18:14 mfollett Thanks, I am hoping to get permission to use that in a talk in October at Strange Loop.
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18:24 PerlJam betterworld: contrast this:
18:24 PerlJam rakudo: my $foo = (3, 8);  $foo.flat.perl.say
18:24 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«(3, 8)␤»
18:25 PerlJam rakudo: my $foo = (3, 8); flat($foo).WHAT.say;  $foo.flat.WHAT.say;
18:26 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«List()␤Seq()␤»
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18:31 flussence is there a way to use a grammar as part of another grammar?
18:32 betterworld PerlJam: hm, confusing.  thanks, then .flat seems to be what I need
18:32 PerlJam betterworld: I don't know if there's a bug there or not though.
18:32 PerlJam flussence: you mean like inheritance?
18:33 PerlJam flussence: or like roles?
18:33 flussence as in parsing a HTML file, then calling separate grammars for <style> and <script> contents
18:33 flussence things like that
18:34 jnthn I think <GrammarName::foo> is meant to work, but wasn't implemented last I checked.
18:34 jnthn pmichaud would know for sure
18:35 pmichaud there's still some question about it.
18:35 pmichaud it may be affected by the rules with lexical regexes
18:35 pmichaud so far it's still spec, I think.
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18:37 pmichaud although I think I might know of a way to implement it short-term.
18:38 diakopter rakudo: class A is Perl { }
18:38 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'trait_mod:<is>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu $child, Role $r)␤:(Routine $r, Any :default($default)!)␤:(Code $block, Any $arg?, Any :export($export)!)␤:(Mu $child, Mu $parent)␤:(Mu $type where ({ ... }), Any
18:38 p6eval ..:rw($rw)…
18:38 diakopter rakudo: role A is Perl { }
18:38 p6eval rakudo be80e9:  ( no output )
18:39 diakopter std: role was is was { }
18:39 p6eval std : OUTPUT«ok 00:01 114m␤»
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18:44 mfollett Should there be a difference in the result of 'A' ~~ 'A' | 'C' and 'A' | 'C' ~~ 'A'?
18:44 flussence ~~ isn't symmetrical
18:45 flussence the first one will probably do what you mean
18:45 mfollett flussence: It does, thanks
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19:01 mfollett If I have an Any Junction as a hash key will it eventually be the case that I will be able to put any value the junction matches to match that hash key?  Right now it is the last value in the junction that matches.
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19:08 flussence rakudo: my %x = (1|2) => 'a', 3 => 'b'; say %x.perl;
19:08 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in '!STORE' at line 5052:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/D6xq2xKwUn␤»
19:09 flussence rakudo: my %x = ((1|2) => 'a', 3 => 'b'); say %x.perl;
19:09 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in '!STORE' at line 5052:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/oYpS9uvsNU␤»
19:09 flussence ack
19:09 flussence rakudo: my $w = (1|2); my %x = $w => 'a', 3 => 'b'; say %x.perl;
19:09 mfollett rakudo: my $junc = 'A' | 'B' | 'C'; my %foo = $junc => 'bronze'; say %foo
19:09 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in '!STORE' at line 5052:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/8t2cJwbMkB␤»
19:09 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«C  bronze␤»
19:10 mfollett flussence: that is the example I was playing with
19:10 flussence oh right, I was trying to use numbers as keys...
19:11 mfollett flussence: why didn't that work?
19:11 flussence rakudo: my $w = 'j'|'k'; my %x = $w => 'a', 'l' => 'b'; say %x<$w>.perl;
19:11 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in '!STORE' at line 5052:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/WW9j08yaHu␤»
19:11 mfollett rakudo: my $junc = 'A' | 'B' | 'C'; my %foo = $junc => 'bronze'; say %foo.perl
19:12 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«{"C" => "bronze"}␤»
19:12 flussence looks like it's taking one value from the junction when it creates the hash...
19:13 flussence rakudo: my $j='A'|'B'; my $pair = $j=>'k'; say $pair.WHAT; say $pair.perl;
19:13 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«Junction()␤any("A" => "k", "B" => "k")␤»
19:13 mfollett all my tests so far seem to indicate it takes the last one
19:13 flussence interesting
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19:22 mfollett This seems not right: rakudo: my $j='A'|'B'; my $pair = $j=>'k'; say('k' ~~ $pair.kv); $pair.kv.say
19:22 mfollett rakudo: my $j='A'|'B'; my $pair = $j=>'k'; say('k' ~~ $pair.kv); $pair.kv.say
19:22 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«1␤any("A", "k", "B")␤»
19:25 flussence rakudo: my $j='A'|'B'; my $pair = $j=>'k'; say $pair.kv.perl
19:25 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«any("A", "k", "B")␤»
19:25 flussence surely that should be an even-length list...
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19:27 flussence S32:707 implies it does...
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19:29 sorear good * #perl6
19:29 phenny sorear: 13:37Z <ggoebel> tell sorear "wonders if a non-executing class hierarchy extractor would be useful"... Sounds good for documentation. Also anything that moves us closer to being able to do static code analysis and dead code detection would be useful. Notes Alias' blog post on "Why Perl6 scares the hell out of me" (http://use.perl.org/~Alias/journal/35508)
19:30 tadzik sorear: sounds like I'll have time tomorrow 16:00 UTC
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19:34 sorear I just hope people take advantage of it
19:39 sorear tadzik: pong
19:40 tadzik sorear: sounds like I'll have time tomorrow 16:00 UTC
19:41 mfollett flussence: Do you think I should submit that as a bug?
19:42 flussence I'm not sure what's correct in this case TBH, best to wait for someone else's opinion.
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19:48 mfollett Ok, I'll see if anyone else chimes in.
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19:55 * TimToady revised http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Forest_fire#Perl_6
19:56 sorear pmichaud et al: Curses is written to pdd21.  pdd21 is not good enough for Blizkost, so I patched Rakudo to move to pdd31
19:56 tadzik pdd?
19:57 sorear ParrotDesignDocument
19:57 tadzik mhm
19:57 sorear tadzik: 1600 UTC is not a good time for me
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19:57 sorear tadzik: unless you meant for #cpan6sketch, but then why are you telling me?
19:58 Italian_Plumber left #perl6
19:58 tadzik sorear: wasn't that you who've been asking me about this DateTime?
19:58 tadzik yes, about cpan6sketch
19:59 sorear sorear != #cpan6sketch
19:59 tadzik TimToady: I get Symbol '$RED木' not predeclared in <anonymous> (asd.pl:5)
20:00 ruoso joined #perl6
20:00 sorear pinging me personally is utterly useless, since I won't even make it
20:00 sorear try joining the channel instead
20:00 sorear hi ruoso
20:00 tadzik 2010-09-19 11:25:04 sorear | tadzik: up for 1600 UTC Tue? # that's why I replied back to you
20:01 sorear oh
20:01 TimToady tadzik: oh, interesting
20:01 TimToady I wonder how that worked with my rakudo...
20:01 takadonet i see the map.... but nothing happening
20:02 takadonet nevermind!
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20:03 TimToady yes, it used to be even slower, recalculating all the neighbors every time through
20:03 TimToady using private attrs should also be faster than public
20:04 TimToady rakudo was also getting rather confused over string-valued enums
20:04 gottreu is 木 considered alpha-numeric?
20:04 TimToady yes, but apparently not by my rakudo :/
20:05 jnthn rakudo: say '木' ~~ /\w/
20:05 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«木␤»
20:05 jnthn rakudo: say '木' ~~ /<alpha>/
20:05 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«木␤»
20:05 jnthn :/
20:05 jnthn TimToady: Your build has ICU support too?
20:06 jnthn Though I'd expect it to explode rather than just fail to match 木 as alpha...
20:06 TimToady I had presumed so, but maybe my file thinks it's in latin-1 or sumpthin
20:08 TimToady apparently I don't have ICU here
20:08 TimToady :(
20:08 tadzik I with it'd be faster so it'd look awesome
20:08 jnthn IC...U need to get it then. ;-)
20:09 TimToady I did once, I wonder where it wented...
20:12 gottreu what should "$RED木$CLEAR" be changed to?
20:12 TimToady what it sez now
20:14 sorear TimToady: if I have A.pm: module A; sub foo is export { say $GLOBAL::x }; main.pl: our $x = 5; use A; foo;
20:14 * gottreu forgot Perl6 is not Perl5 for a moment.  . is not ~
20:14 tadzik gottreu: wotks with {$RED}Ó$CLEAR
20:14 sorear TimToady: it'll say Any() because GLOBAL:: points at A.pm's GLOBAL?
20:14 tadzik not Ó but that witty character of course
20:15 gottreu tadzik, that's the syntax i was trying to remember
20:15 tadzik .u 木
20:15 phenny U+6728 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-6728 (木)
20:15 sorear tadzik: 'tree'
20:15 tadzik . o o ( U+6278 SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE A TREE-6728 )
20:15 sorear not very mnemonic for concatenation, imo
20:16 cotto joined #perl6
20:16 * araujo still looking for a nice name for his language
20:16 tadzik araujo: what kind of language is it?
20:16 araujo http://ideone.com/ZZf3o
20:16 araujo tadzik, latest code snippet
20:16 araujo :P
20:17 TimToady sorear: use needs to merge everyone's ideas of GLOBAL, and perhaps complain if anyone provides conficting initializers
20:17 araujo I just give up ... I am bad at naming things ....
20:17 TimToady well, I suppose it could use ⽊ instead
20:17 TimToady .u ⽊
20:18 phenny U+2F4A KANGXI RADICAL TREE (⽊)
20:18 TimToady but that's a radical, not a character :)
20:18 tadzik that's not in my font :(
20:18 TimToady indeed, the normal tree character is likelier to be there
20:18 tadzik araujo: what paradigm does it follow? What were you inspired by? What's special about it?
20:19 araujo tadzik, I just pick what I like from smalltalk/perl/lisp/tcl
20:19 TimToady though doubtless any hanzi gives some stone-aged terminal emulators complete hissyfits
20:20 sorear TimToady: so at runtime all the UNIT::GLOBAL's are aliases?
20:20 TimToady then name it 'picky' or some such...
20:20 jnthn MishMash
20:20 tadzik or Pickroll
20:20 tadzik :D
20:20 araujo Picky
20:20 araujo hehe
20:20 flussence I object to urxvt being called stone-aged :(
20:20 TimToady sorear: wouldn't be very global otherwise
20:20 flussence on the other hand, why is it drawing a box there...
20:20 sorear flussence: urxvt picks up on fonts you have installed
20:20 TimToady maybe we should have named it COMMON in honor of fortran
20:21 sorear my urxvt renders both trees
20:21 tadzik sorear: what font?
20:21 flussence probably missing some monospace cjk chars... the one earlier showed up fine
20:21 sorear I dunno, it doesn't tell me
20:21 sorear (that said, urxvt *is* lehmannware...)
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20:23 TimToady it was tempting to name the enums as 木 and 記事
20:23 TimToady grr
20:23 sorear I don't know the 2nd or 3rd
20:23 TimToady and ⽕
20:23 sorear ah
20:23 TimToady but ⽕ and き
20:23 TimToady grr again
20:23 TimToady but ⽕ and 木 look too much alike
20:24 TimToady mustn't stutter on the enter key when using anthy...
20:24 tadzik an empty book does not look like this tree-like character to me :)
20:25 TimToady was trying to get 火事
20:26 jnthn ...fire something?
20:26 flussence (I wish distros would add some sort of metadata for font packages to say which glyph ranges they provide...)
20:27 TimToady jnthn: pretty close
20:27 TimToady 0293 事じ ず ことJI ZU kotothing, matter, act
20:27 jnthn oh lol
20:27 estrabd is now known as estrabd_afk
20:27 sorear flussence: small problem there - no two far east countries acknowledge each other's character numberings
20:27 jnthn I recognized "fire" and was using something in the meta "what is that" sense. :-)
20:27 TimToady :)
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20:29 flussence sorear: yeah, but at least in a technical sense it should be possible to pull out a list of defined codepoints from a font file.
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20:29 sorear jnthn: now I'm working on serializing the metamodel...
20:30 sorear TimToady: I wonder how GLOBAL merging interacts with non-acyclic package graphs.
20:30 supernovus Okay, so say you have a module called Foo, that exports a bunch of subs. Why is it that if you define a subset inside the module, it's restrictions are completely ignored when you call the exported sub?
20:30 phenny supernovus: 19 Sep 09:56Z <tadzik> tell supernovus you may want to add perlite6 to ww6's deps.proto
20:30 jnthn sorear: You're hard to keep up with. :P :-)
20:31 supernovus tadzik: actually, looking at the readme that I've updated, I need to add half of projects.list to deps.proto ;-)
20:32 sorear jnthn: I've decided that it's illegal to modify objects in other separate compilation units when precompiling at BEGIN time
20:32 sorear jnthn: so no 'augment class Mu { }' if you want to use the precompiler
20:32 sorear jnthn: this way, the precompiler always gets to have consistant metaobjects in every unit
20:33 sorear jnthn: INIT { Mu.^add-method(...) } is fine though, since the compiler is shielded from nondeterministic ordering
20:33 supernovus never mind my subset question, I added "my" to the subset and it works fine now :-)
20:35 jnthn sorear: I hafta wonder if augment really wants to ever be BEGIN time for these kinds of reasons...
20:36 jnthn It *is* a complete can of worms for pre-compilation, I agree.
20:38 * jnthn gives his hands a rest from typing and goes to do langauge study for a bit
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20:43 sorear module A { module B is export {} }; module A::B::C { import A :OUR<B> }
20:44 sorear What is A::B::C::B::PARENT?  What happens if GLOBAL is merged?
20:45 sorear How much of this needs to get cloned by 'use'?
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20:51 TimToady I suspect the parent can remain A
20:52 TimToady it's not like you reparent when importing to MY either
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20:54 TimToady and it's not like we can clone packages willy nilly as if they were immutable values
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21:05 sorear S11 talks about cloning packages on use
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21:06 sorear my question about merging of cyclic GLOBALs stands
21:07 sorear (if packages are *not* cloned on use, I'll have to ban use Foo; class Foo::Bar { ... }, at least without MONKEY_TYPING)
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21:13 cotto 18*19
21:13 cotto ww
21:13 sorear 342
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21:17 sorear TimToady: should it even be possible to put loops in GLOBAL like that?
21:17 supernovus tadzik:  There, ww6 now has a deps.proto file. So far perlite6, SCGI, exemel, flower, json and temporal-utils are the only known dependencies.
21:18 tadzik supernovus: good. It can now be nicely installable with a module installer
21:19 tadzik supernovus++
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21:21 tadzik http://modules.perl6.org/ -- not quite up-to-date, is it?
21:21 tadzik bedtime, see you guys
21:21 supernovus tadzik: What happens to the stuff in the other directories when you 'install' an app like ww6? It comes with a whole bunch of example configuration files (in data/) and web applications (in apps/) and some other misc stuff. Will there eventually be support for a "/usr/share/doc" like place to put the "other" bits?
21:22 tadzik supernovus: see http://ttjjss.wordpress.com/2010/08/09/so-you-want-to-write-a-perl-6-module/
21:22 tadzik supernovus: so far you can think of your own
21:22 tadzik ...own makefile
21:23 tadzik supernovus: you can easily supply them as the pod-only .pm files I think
21:23 tadzik at least configs
21:23 supernovus tadzik: okay, that works, most of my library-only packages use 'ufo', but ww6 is rather 'special'. Thanks for the link! have a good night
21:23 tadzik supernovus: you might want to consider trying Module::Tools instead of ufo. It has a nice mbuild script, not using Makefile, but being pure-Perl6
21:23 tadzik so mbuild, mbuild test, mbuild install, etc
21:24 supernovus tadzik: Cool, I'll look into that. I can tell I've been away a while :-)
21:24 tadzik and now pardon, but I'm hell sleepy
21:24 tadzik g'night
21:24 supernovus o/ tadzik
21:24 tadzik left #perl6
21:32 [hudnix] rakudo: [X] 1,2
21:32 p6eval rakudo be80e9:  ( no output )
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21:55 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 76d9ad1 | jnthn++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
21:55 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Some groundwork for the new meta-model implementation in the grammar and actions. Mostly copied from JnthnNQP.
21:55 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/76d9ad15c250bca1b55a074457a4e1c7739919f1
21:57 sorear mildew is a lot smaller than I was expecting
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22:54 sorear pmurias: VAST::package_def is not a simple node, possible choices are: longname signature decl trait blockoid at /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.0/VAST.pm line 18.
22:54 sorear ...
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23:22 dalek nqp-rx/nom: e80031a | jnthn++ | / (4 files):
23:22 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Start to stub in the P6opaque representation. Doesn't actually compute any slot storage and store attributes yet, but this gets the outline in place.
23:22 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/e80031a5b95462fa38824f4ce1f050963cd76c34
23:22 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 0beab0f | jnthn++ | src/metamodel/reprs/P6 (3 files):
23:22 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Add struct definitions for P6int/P6num/P6str representations.
23:22 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/0beab0ffadd5da19e8ada5d2344e7f7c4a9848be
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23:30 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star Released!
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