Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-09-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:47 diakopter no phenny
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02:59 diakopter quiet afternoon/evening
03:01 nymacro *nod*
03:02 LaVolta make some noise!
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03:12 thowe Hi
03:15 thowe it's odd, but looking at Perl6 lately has me semi interested in Perl 5 again...  I want to replace my nanoc site with some perlish concoction
03:17 thowe I think I want template toolkit for perl6
03:17 ash_ i don't think there are any actively developed template toolkits for perl6 yet
03:17 ash_ but feel free to start one
03:18 ash_ there are a number for perl5 based ones however
03:18 thowe I'm on Chapter 3 of the perl6 book.  I think me building anything that other people use should wait a bit.
03:19 ash_ if you want a simple tool for a perl based site you could try Mojolicious::Lite
03:19 thowe I'm not enjoying the font selections in this book...  I'm curious as to the software used to make the pdf
03:20 thowe it looks like learning the template toolkit would be knowledge that pays off in other ways.
03:20 thowe I'll bet it is much faster than erb, which might help me with some stuff at work.
03:21 ash_ its all auto generated from tex
03:21 ash_ well, i think its .pod -> latex -> pdf
03:22 thowe hmm.  then I wonder if my issues are xpdf related?  It seems I don't have these readability problems with other PDFs.  I'm tempted to blame the fonts
03:22 ash_ it might be font related
03:22 ash_ but pdf's should have to font's embedded, but you could re-configure the build process to use a different font
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03:23 nymacro thowe, 2010.08 one? Reads fine in Evince
03:23 thowe they may look great on paper...  I had to set to 200% to see that a - was really a ~
03:24 thowe I'm using 2010.07 one.  2010.08 failed to build for me so I went back.
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03:24 ash_ http://github.com/perl6/book is the source code, you can read it all there
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03:25 thowe It looks swell at 200%.  I'll bet it will look great on paper.
03:25 ash_ hmm, i don't have the same problem
03:26 thowe I (or XPDF) must be missing something
03:26 nymacro you could try one of the pre-built PDFs. Not sure if it would help at all
03:26 nymacro http://github.com/perl6/book/downloads
03:27 ash_ ya, if you built the pdf yourself, you may be missing a font or something
03:27 thowe is the one in the docs folder built when I build rakudo?
03:27 ash_ umm, i am not sure
03:27 thowe I hadn't noticed, but I am getting by with it.
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03:34 sorear good * #perl6
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03:36 echosystm why does perl6 have 3 different ways to pass parameters?
03:37 echosystm i dont get it
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03:37 echosystm isnt this the kind of insanity that made so many people leave perl in the first place?
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03:37 sorear perl 6 only has one way to pass parameters
03:37 echosystm wikipedia says 3 : positional, named, "slurpy"
03:37 ash_ i don't understand what you mean by 3 different ways
03:38 echosystm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6#Parameter_passing_modes
03:38 sorear those are actually parameter parsing modes, not passing...
03:39 echosystm ok
03:40 echosystm the point remains though... why 3 ?
03:40 sorear because they're all useful
03:40 ash_ they are all expressive ways of passing parameters, a lot of languages support those 3 kinds of ways of passing args, including ruby and python
03:41 sorear what's your favorite programming language?  I'd be happy to make inflammatory remarks about its parameter passing system
03:41 echosystm probably java
03:43 ash_ they are useful because you can use them to express different things with different types of parameters, for instance you can also add a constraint that is based off of the type of an arg
03:43 echosystm right
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03:43 ash_ sigil on the parameter can add meaning too, like @ means your expecting a Positional type
03:44 ash_ Positional is a fancy way of saying its array like
03:44 echosystm yep
03:44 ash_ array/list whatever word you want to describe
03:44 ash_ errr
03:44 ash_ however you want to describe it
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03:44 echosystm a big concern for me is the general lack of convention in most programming languages
03:45 nymacro echosystm, most modern languages support these 3 modes. They're somewhat conventional -- the only difference is how languages denote them
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03:45 echosystm is perl6 goign to be really anal about naming ?
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03:45 nymacro Perl 6 slurpy is the equivalent of C/Java varargs
03:46 ash_ as an alternative to named params, most languages look for a hash with the values set in it, it solves a similar problem to pass a hash
03:48 echosystm does anyone know about my previous question?
03:48 echosystm this is a big issue for me and im curious if perl6 is going to be a fresh start in this regard
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03:48 ash_ you mean naming?
03:48 nymacro naming conventions?
03:48 ash_ like with var names, subs names, obj names?
03:48 echosystm yeah like method/variable/package naming
03:48 echosystm yes
03:48 ash_ they are pretty free
03:49 ash_ rakudo: my $a-b-c = "can have dashes even";
03:49 p6eval rakudo be80e9:  ( no output )
03:49 LaVolta btw, does it have particular convertion?
03:49 echosystm i mean, are we going to have strong conventions in the standard library etc?
03:49 ash_ std: class foo-bar { };
03:49 p6eval std : OUTPUT«ok 00:01 114m␤»
03:50 echosystm i learned java as my first language, where everything is really strict about naming
03:50 echosystm you'll never see underscores etc.
03:50 nymacro echosystm, I believe the general Perl community has its own pseudo-standard naming conventions, but you're free to do whatever you want
03:50 echosystm then i learned php and wanted to stab my eyes out
03:50 LaVolta this is Perl
03:50 LaVolta :)
03:50 ash_ in the std library, you'll see dashes in things on occasion, its generally a single word for each sub names when possible
03:50 sorear echosystm: What, precisely, is your goal here?
03:51 echosystm trying to work out whether to learn perl6
03:51 ash_ have you learned perl5?
03:51 echosystm yep
03:52 nymacro ash_, is that a trick question? :P
03:52 LaVolta echosystm:  what's your opinion on  Perl 5?
03:52 ash_ not really, the are perl5 and 6 have so many similarities that its useful to understand perl5 to see why things are the way they are in perl6
03:52 echosystm i think perl5 is a good language in itself
03:52 echosystm its what people have done with it that is the problem
03:53 echosystm most of the perl code i see is an unmaintainable pile of crap that doesnt even try adhere to any kind of standard practice or conventions
03:53 thowe its what people have done with it that is often the solution! =)
03:53 sorear Perl 5, the language, is garbage
03:53 nymacro ash_, I'm just making fun. :)
03:54 sorear the only reason to ever use it is the fact that it has a real library culture
03:54 LaVolta ah...people write Perl doesn't mean they are good at it
03:54 ash_ i fail at english right now, sorry if i don't make sense
03:54 LaVolta though, ""
03:54 echosystm well
03:54 echosystm when im using modules off CPAN (popular ones too)
03:54 echosystm theyre just all over the place
03:54 LaVolta "get your job done", pardon me
03:54 echosystm sometimes you see method calls like (-var => x, etc.
03:55 LaVolta and? :)
03:55 echosystm other times you see ({var => x}), (Var => x) etc
03:56 echosystm it makes the code horrible to look at and i basically just want nothing to do with it
03:56 nymacro echosystm, nb. Perl is expressive and doesn't have "one way" to do anything
03:56 echosystm evidently
03:56 thowe poor programming practices are universal.  I have seen Perl that has made me angry, but I probably run into that more with PHP
03:56 LaVolta modules I met often offer both ways to specify 'var'
03:57 LaVolta like a directly one and a 'named' one
03:57 sorear echosystm: TIMTOWDI is non-negotiable.
03:57 LaVolta and i think's it's just reflect the way of doing it Perlly, nothing else
03:57 LaVolta grok it or leave it
03:57 LaVolta that's my understanding
03:58 ash_ TIMTOWDI in every language, you can make python look just as bad as php if you try hard enough even though python swears by the 'there is one way to do it' way of thinking
03:58 echosystm python is a lie
03:58 echosystm all the hype about that language is false
03:59 LaVolta you can write assembly in any language :)
03:59 sorear a good FORTRAN programmer can write FORTRAN in any language.
03:59 thowe I really wanted to like Python...  I just couldn't do it
03:59 echosystm same thowe
04:00 ash_ i work with python all the time, i don't mind it, its just another way of doing things
04:00 echosystm i heard all these claims of it being such a beautiful and elegant language... total nonsense
04:00 echosystm its no better than perl/php/whatever
04:00 ash_ i only use it when i have to use libraries it has that other's dont
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04:00 nymacro there is nothing wrong with Python
04:00 echosystm the irony is that python folk always slam PHP for its naming conventions (or lack of)
04:00 nymacro this is coming down to personal preference
04:01 thowe I find that Perl6 seems to be easier to read the way my brain wants to read it without needing to think as much as perl5 made me think.  I find a lot of what I like about Ruby in Perl6
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04:02 ash_ thowe: same, i liked ruby a lot, but i realize perl6 offers more flexibility and power in a number of areas
04:02 LaVolta "Ruby: Because I can't wait until Perl 6 is finished"
04:02 thowe and that's just me.  I sighed a big sigh and moved to Ruby about 7 years ago.  Perl6 currently is drawing me back in by being cool.
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04:02 thowe LaVolta, EXACTLY!
04:02 ash_ thowe: http://try.rakudo.org/
04:02 nymacro d8-)
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04:03 thowe ash_ , I have Rakudo here and I am going through the perl6 book already =]
04:04 thowe The Wiki book kind of sold me, plus I read some of the Apocalypse stuff
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04:05 thowe some of those Perl/Parrot guys are just crazy smart...
04:05 ash_ thowe: have you read the current spec?
04:05 ash_ its useful if you don't mind technical babble
04:06 nymacro I learnt words which I didn't even know existed
04:06 thowe ash_ I have looked at it a little, but I haven't read it.
04:07 ash_ the Apocalypse are a bit dated, same with the Exegesis
04:07 ash_ the spec, however, is current
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04:09 ash_ alpha: ([\,] 1..3).perl.say
04:10 p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Syntax error at line 10, near "([\\,] 1..3"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
04:10 ash_ rakudo:  ([\,] 1..3).perl.say
04:10 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«(1, (1, 2), ((1, 2), 3))␤»
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04:15 ash_ thowe: http://perlcabal.org/syn/ is the spec if you need a link
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04:29 cbk how does one set up a hash when declaring a default constructor in perl6?
04:30 cbk or a array for that matter?
04:34 plobsing rakudo: class B { has $.x = { :x('y'), :y('z'), :z('x') }; }; B.new.x
04:34 p6eval rakudo be80e9:  ( no output )
04:35 plobsing rakudo: class B { has $.x = { :x('y'), :y('z'), :z('x') }; }; B.new.x.perl.say
04:35 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«{"x" => "y", "y" => "z", "z" => "x"}␤»
04:35 cbk plobsing, ok i'll try that.... Thanks.
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06:25 moritz_ good morning
06:26 Su-Shee good morning to the south!
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08:02 tadzik good morning
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08:47 jnthn morning, #perl6
08:47 mberends hola jnthn
08:49 jnthn o/ mberends
08:51 mberends jnthn: no 6model updates from me today, still surveying the overall approach. More than half the nqp code seems to fit without any change \o/
08:52 jnthn Yes, I kinda hoped a bunch of it would be re-usable by you. :-)
08:52 jnthn I kinda got lazy and used var in a couple of places
08:52 jnthn That should be eliminated in the .Net one too at some point though
08:53 jnthn (So anything you do in the Java on towards that, the C# one will borrow back at some point :-)).
08:54 jnthn s/on /one/
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08:57 mberends :)
08:57 pnu joined #perl6
08:58 jnthn mberends: I got another few bits of the C implementation in place last night too. :-)
08:58 mberends mberends: cool!
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08:59 mberends er, jnthn: cool!
08:59 jnthn .oO( Is talking to yourself one of the first signs of madness if you do it on IRC? )
08:59 mberends (sign of semility)
08:59 mberends s/m/n/
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09:00 mberends it's gonna be one of those days...
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12:05 moritz_ http://github.com/moritz/perlgeek.de/blob/master/source/blog-source-en/perl-6/announcing-try-rakudo-org.txt any comments before I publish?
12:16 jnthn moritz_: +1
12:16 takadonet I will post it to reddit asap :)
12:17 moritz_ http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/announcing-try-rakudo-org.writeback
12:18 takadonet http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dgt8x/announcing_tryrakudoorg_an_interactive_perl_6/
12:18 jnthn wow, that was fast :)
12:20 takadonet I have a perl6 macro.....
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12:36 arnsholt .u ṣ
12:36 phenny U+1E63 LATIN SMALL LETTER S WITH DOT BELOW (ṣ)
12:43 masak joined #perl6
12:43 masak nämen hej, #perl6!
12:43 phenny masak: 20 Sep 12:09Z <moritz_> tell masak that some code seems to be incomplete at http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/idiomatic-perl-6
12:43 masak moritz_: thanks -- will investigate.
12:44 takadonet maybe I should have posted in r/perl instead of r/programming
12:44 masak indeed. previously bolded code didn't make it though the convesion.
12:44 masak takadonet: r/programming generally gets more comment.
12:44 masak s/comment/comments/
12:45 arnsholt .u ḥ
12:45 phenny U+1E25 LATIN SMALL LETTER H WITH DOT BELOW (ḥ)
12:45 takadonet masak: indeed but Perl 6 gets lots of downvotes normally
12:46 moritz_ takadonet: you can always do both :-)
12:46 moritz_ I usually do
12:47 takadonet sometime I do
12:48 * masak upvotes
12:48 moritz_ who's doing the release on Thursday?
12:48 moritz_ mathw?
12:48 jnthn masak: "nämen"?
12:49 masak jnthn: interjection, expressing mild surprise. nej + men.
12:49 jnthn yeahbut nobut...
12:49 masak jnthn: possibly the closest one gets to "oh hai" in Swedish.
12:49 masak jnthn: well, those are used when arguing. this one isn't.
12:49 jnthn :)
12:50 masak I'd translate it back to English as "well", as in "well hello".
12:50 ash_ joined #perl6
12:52 jnthn .oO( Swedes greet their wells? In English we just pulled the water out of them... )
12:52 ash_ hi
12:52 phenny ash_: 15 Sep 09:24Z <moritz_> ask ash_ what to do when try.rakudo.org is unresponsive - is there a way to restart the backend? if yes, how?
12:53 jnthn *England
12:53 arnsholt .u ḫ
12:53 phenny U+1E2B LATIN SMALL LETTER H WITH BREVE BELOW (ḫ)
12:54 jnthn Aww, my font is missing that one.
12:54 moritz_ hi ash_. I just blogged about try.rakudo.org
12:54 masak moritz_++
12:54 ash_ moritz_: currently, if try.rakudo.org is messed up, you have to ssh into the screen and reset it, i know its not the best way of doing it
12:54 ash_ hey, i blogged about it too, last night
12:55 moritz_ where 'it' = what?
12:56 masak url?
12:56 moritz_ http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/announcing-try-rakudo-org.writeback
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12:56 ash_ umm, that depends on which part is unresponsive, it's currently 1 screen for the repl server and 1 screen for the http server (its a mojo daemon)
12:57 mathw moritz_: I'm down for it. I really probably should try and persuade someone else to do it though, things are a bit... mad
12:57 ash_ i haven't ever written a /etc/init.d script or anything like that, so i wasn't sure how to go about making a daemon to start the repl server
12:57 moritz_ mathw: if nobody else chimes in, I can do it
12:58 mathw thanks
12:58 moritz_ ash_: I don't think it's really necessary; having a README that tells which process to kill and how to start them again would be a great start
12:58 moritz_ and under which user IDs
12:58 mathw most things don't seem to be working out properly this week!
12:59 ash_ alright, i'll set that up, where can i put the readme?
12:59 moritz_ ash_: in the repo, I'd say
12:59 ash_ kk
12:59 ash_ i'll write that up now
12:59 moritz_ ash_++
12:59 ash_ i have noticed it going unresponsive a few times, i wish i knew a better way of restarting it to keep it up and running
13:00 moritz_ ash_: Infinoid uses some supervision for the dalek bot... maybe we can steal that mechanism
13:01 ash_ do you have a link to infinoid? so i can read up on it
13:01 moritz_ ash_: Infinoid is a nick in here :-)
13:01 ash_ http://greaterthaninfinity.com/2010/09/try-rakudo-in-your-browser/ btw
13:01 ash_ ah
13:02 moritz_ oh, I missed that
13:02 ash_ but my blog doesn't go many places, so the more that write about it the better chances it will be found
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13:02 flussence is anyone aware that the graphs on smolder.parrot.org are broken?
13:02 moritz_ flussence: best ping dukeleto about it
13:04 moritz_ ash_: I've now added a link to your blog too
13:05 arnsholt .u ṭ
13:05 phenny U+1E6D LATIN SMALL LETTER T WITH DOT BELOW (ṭ)
13:06 ash_ .u ¢
13:06 phenny U+00A2 CENT SIGN (¢)
13:06 ash_ cool, thanks moritz_
13:07 tadzik hah, try.rakudo.org got some reddit effect
13:08 takadonet really?
13:08 takadonet how badly?
13:08 takadonet sorry :(
13:09 tadzik hah, I managed to get to it
13:09 ash_ hmm, something is wrong with the repl server, someone just tried "Zażółć gęślą jaźn".chars and it crashed the repl server, i don't know why :-\
13:09 ash_ i'll look into it
13:09 flussence s/Unfurtounately/Unfortunately/
13:10 mberends Yesterday - The Backup Song http://www.iks-jena.de/mitarb/lutz/usenet/yesterday.html :)
13:10 jnthn rakudo: say "Zażółć gęślą jaźn".chars
13:10 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«17␤»
13:10 tadzik > say 'Zażółć gęślą jaźń'
13:10 tadzik ZażóÅÄ gÄÅlÄ jaźÅ
13:10 tadzik ↑ REPL
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13:11 ash_ tadzik: commandline repl ?
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13:11 tadzik ash_: ywis
13:11 moritz_ mberends: nice :-)  hope there's no specific reason for you to sing it :-)
13:12 tadzik ash_: → say 'Zażółć gęślą jaźń'
13:12 tadzik ERROR: failed to gather a result Wide character in syswrite at /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1/IO/Pty/HalfDuplex/Ptyish.pm line 191, <$cfg> line 1.
13:12 ash_ hmm
13:12 ash_ i'll keep trying it locally, and try to update the server when i can
13:12 moritz_ probably a missing encode_utf8() before writing to the REPL
13:14 ash_ hmm "£æ".say and "¢£".chars both worked
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13:24 ash_ i didn't know there was a version of pugs that ran in your browser
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13:26 [Coke] wow, ages ago, yes.
13:26 [Coke] try.rakudo.org seems to have hung my copy of IE8.
13:27 moritz_ wow
13:27 flussence I'm installing Konqueror just so I can have something to complain about
13:27 flussence (and maybe fix)
13:28 ash_ unicode seems to break the repl server, but not all unicode, which is annoying.
13:28 [Coke] repl is using readline under the covers. perhaps there's a setting to be tweaked.
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13:28 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
13:29 ash_ i configured it to not use readline
13:29 [Coke] ah, IE8 is fine. it just goes haywire if I <do too much of thing X I haven't figured out>
13:29 [Coke] ash_: ah, then it's probably the REPL. =-)
13:30 mjk left #perl6
13:31 ruoso er... try.rakudo.org seem to have gone offline
13:31 takadonet good old reddit
13:31 ash_ i keep restarting it because i keep breaking it
13:31 ash_ i don't recommend trying to print unicode characters, they seem to cause problems
13:36 ruoso javascript utf8 support is terrible
13:37 moritz_ rakudo utf8 support is also fragile
13:38 tadzik well, rather REPL, no?
13:38 moritz_ it works well for files, but used to have lots of bugs for -e, REPL, modules etc.
13:38 nymacro left #perl6
13:40 javs joined #perl6
13:41 ruoso std: my @c = map -> $n, $s { $n ~ $s }, @n Z @s;
13:41 p6eval std : OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable @n is not predeclared at /tmp/kOwviqJ5aQ line 1:␤------> [32mmy @c = map -> $n, $s { $n ~ $s }, @n[33m⏏[31m Z @s;[0m␤Variable @s is not predeclared at /tmp/kOwviqJ5aQ line 1:␤------> [32m @c = map -> $n, $s { $n ~ $s }, @n Z @s[33m⏏[31…
13:41 ruoso std: my @s; my @n; my @c = map -> $n, $s { $n ~ $s }, @n Z @s;
13:41 p6eval std : OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
13:41 ruoso rakudo: my @s; my @n; my @c = map -> $n, $s { $n ~ $s }, @n Z @s;
13:41 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«No candidates found to invoke for method 'map' on object of type 'Array'; available candidates have signatures:␤:(Mu : &block;; *%_)␤␤  in 'map' at line 1758:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/QAYidGPLJo␤»
13:42 ruoso rakudo: my @s; my @n; my @c = map -> $n, $s { $n ~ $s }, (@n Z @s);
13:42 p6eval rakudo be80e9:  ( no output )
13:42 tadzik left #perl6
13:42 ruoso bug?
13:43 ash_ is Z the right precedence? (just checking)
13:43 moritz_ rakudo: my @n; my @c = map -> $n, $s { $n ~ $s }
13:43 p6eval rakudo be80e9:  ( no output )
13:43 masak ruoso: you're not outputting anything.
13:43 tadzik joined #perl6
13:43 ruoso masak, the bug was about the earlier eval
13:43 moritz_ masak: I think it's the "No candidates found"
13:43 masak oh, I see now.
13:43 masak no, that's correct.
13:43 moritz_ why?
13:43 masak STD never tries to call &map.
13:43 masak Rakudo does.
13:44 masak and Z has very loose prec.
13:44 moritz_ but why is it an error?
13:44 moritz_ I read that as
13:44 moritz_ (map $block, @n) Z @s
13:44 molaf joined #perl6
13:44 * masak checks the prec of Z just to be sure
13:45 ruoso hmm... that would be surprising..
13:45 masak it's tighter than 'list prefix', of which &map is a member.
13:45 moritz_ ok
13:45 ruoso makes more sense
13:45 moritz_ ah
13:45 masak so, no bug.
13:45 moritz_ it's parsed as
13:45 ruoso no bug?
13:45 * ruoso read it the other way
13:45 moritz_ map(($block, @n) Z @s)
13:45 masak ruoso: no, it's tighter. no bug.
13:45 moritz_ so it's basically     map(@list)
13:46 masak right.
13:46 moritz_ which misses the block
13:46 moritz_ so masak++ is right
13:46 masak for once :P
13:46 masak I don't very much like being right here.
13:46 masak but TimToady knows about this one.
13:46 masak it's one of those which you can't get right for every single use case, so you have to get it wrong sometimes.
13:47 moritz_ I think map is supposed to have a slurpy block, but even then: @s is empty, so the zip returns the empty list
13:47 masak a good lint tool should be able to detect it, though.
13:47 moritz_ masak: it's one of the reasons I like the method form of map
13:48 masak moritz_: aye. I don't use Z enough in that position to have been burnt by this a lot.
13:48 ruoso yeah... after thinking for a while I realize why it is a bug...
13:48 ruoso but it looks quite odd
13:49 moritz_ ruoso: as a comfort, you'd use Z~ instead of the map + Z anyway :-)
13:50 ash_ is there a bigger pi?
13:50 ash_ rakudo: more-accurate-pi
13:50 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &more-accurate-pi␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/gnNZ41c7Rr␤»
13:50 tadzik . o O ( Math::Pi )
13:50 moritz_ rakudo: say 0.1+pi # bigger pi :-)
13:51 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«3.24159265358979␤»
13:51 ash_ lol
13:51 masak rakudo: say pi ** pi
13:51 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«36.4621596072079␤»
13:51 ash_ s/bigger/more decimals of accuracy/
13:51 ash_ :pi<123> # o.0
13:51 masak ruoso: it looks a bit odd at first, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that Z *has* to have that precedence.
13:51 tadzik or rather Math::π
13:52 tadzik .u π
13:52 phenny U+03C0 GREEK SMALL LETTER PI (π)
13:52 ruoso masak, yes... the problem is not from Z, actually
13:52 ruoso masak, the origin of that parsing comes from accepting lists without the parenthesis
13:52 ash_ rakudo: "{GREEK BIG LETTER PI}".perl
13:52 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &PI␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Go6JFO8TaR␤»
13:52 ash_ um... is that a bug?
13:52 ash_ or did i do it wrong?
13:52 tadzik hm?
13:52 moritz_ {...} is closure interpolation
13:52 tadzik what is the bug here?
13:53 moritz_ you want \c[...]
13:53 jnthn \c[GREEK BIG LETTER PI]
13:53 jnthn rakudo: "\c[GREEK BIG LETTER PI]".perl.say
13:53 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized character name GREEK BIG LETTER PI at line 22, near "]\".perl.sa"␤»
13:53 moritz_ s/BIG/CAPITAL
13:53 jnthn rakudo: "\c[GREEK CAPITAL LETTER PI]".perl.say
13:53 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«"Π"␤»
13:53 ash_ ah, i was thinking the opposite of small was big
13:53 jnthn rakudo: "\c[GREEK CAPITAL LETTER PIE]".perl.say
13:53 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized character name GREEK CAPITAL LETTER PIE at line 22, near "]\".perl.sa"␤»
13:53 jnthn Aww
13:53 jnthn :-)
13:53 tadzik The Pie is a Lie!
13:54 jnthn .u pie
13:54 phenny U+A03D YI SYLLABLE PIE (ꀽ)
13:54 ash_ rakudo: "\c[CAKE]".say
13:54 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized character name CAKE at line 22, near "]\".say"␤»
13:54 tadzik rakudo: Pie.isa('Lie')
13:54 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &Pie␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/_bC9hruJtH␤»
13:54 tadzik rakudo: class Lie {}; class Cake {}; say Cake.isa('Lie').Bool
13:54 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«0␤»
13:54 tadzik pff
13:54 tadzik rakudo: class Lie {}; class Cake is Lie {}; say Cake.isa('Lie').Bool
13:54 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«1␤»
13:55 moritz_ the quotes aren't necessary
13:55 jnthn The quotes are hateful.
13:55 tadzik oh
13:55 tadzik right
13:55 jnthn Trouble is, which Lie?
13:55 moritz_ The Lie
13:55 jnthn What if there's different ideas of what a Lie is in different scopes?
13:56 arnsholt Sophus Lie?
13:56 snearch joined #perl6
13:56 moritz_ sorry, unrecognized Lie at line 2,
13:57 ash_ hmm, should i setup the library that lets you use perl5 in rakudo? (that did work, right?)
13:57 ash_ on the server, the try.rakudo.org server
13:58 moritz_ nope
13:58 moritz_ too high risk
13:58 ash_ kk
13:58 moritz_ it would be a cool demo, but dangerous
13:59 ash_ i'd have to override a bunch of things in perl5 i guess to make it safe
14:01 moritz_ "a bunch of things" sounds like a broad oversimplification :-)
14:01 jnthn /me går för att köpa öl...bbiab
14:01 dju left #perl6
14:02 moritz_ that sounds like "I'm going to buy some beer"
14:02 moritz_ not an unlikely thing for jnthn to say
14:02 masak if you interp "going" quite literally, it does mean that.
14:03 masak jnthn++ # Swedish is getting better -- at least the beer-related parts :)
14:03 moritz_ yeah, more like "going (to the shop) to buy"
14:03 tadzik ól is beer?
14:03 masak aye.
14:03 tadzik nice word to know
14:04 masak English has 'ale' there in the same clade.
14:05 tadzik ale is "but" in Polish :)
14:07 Guest23195 joined #perl6
14:07 masak we could keep on like this all evening :P
14:12 tadzik http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dgt8x/announcing_tryrakudoorg_an_interactive_perl_6/ -- there is a sad someone
14:12 dju joined #perl6
14:13 szbalint jnthn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpHniCEHY7I # learning swedish
14:14 ash_ jnthn: you use windows, right?
14:14 * [Coke] listens to _Camilla_ by the art of noise, which is close enough to camelia that he had to double check.
14:15 ash_ oh, he's buying beer, nevermind, anyone else use windows?
14:15 ash_ or more specifically, has anyone had any issues with try.rakudo.org on windows?
14:16 ruoso rakudo: my @numbers = 2..10, «J Q K A»;my @suits = «hearts diamonds clubs spades»;my @deck = @numbers X| @suits;my @hand = @deck.pick(5); say @hand; say (([eq] @hand) && (!grep { $_ == any(2..10) }, @hand)) ?? 'royal flush' !! 'not a royal flush';
14:16 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«any("J", "spades")any(5, "clubs")any(6, "hearts")any(7, "spades")any(5, "spades")␤not a royal flush␤»
14:18 wtw left #perl6
14:19 * ruoso notes that it only works because poker hands have 5 cards and the deck has only 4 suits
14:20 moritz_ ash_: perlmonks chatterbox reports a few successes on windows
14:20 ash_ k
14:21 ash_ well, i'll have to find a windows computer to test this on
14:22 * ash_ changing classrooms bbl
14:22 ash_ left #perl6
14:23 moritz_ 16:23 <@cbstream> [mje] google chrome on Windows XP - > 3 minutes and still no answer
14:28 wallberg left #perl6
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14:31 gfldex std: my @a = <foo.txt bar.txt baz.txt>; @a>>.split('.')[-1].say;
14:31 p6eval std : OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unsupported use of [-1] subscript to access from end of array; in Perl 6 please use [*-1] at /tmp/fWzwoveIpb line 1:␤------> [32mxt bar.txt baz.txt>; @a>>.split('.')[-1][33m⏏[31m.say;[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 119m␤»
14:32 gfldex std: my @a = <foo.txt bar.txt baz.txt>; @a>>.split('.')[*-1].say;
14:32 p6eval std : OUTPUT«ok 00:01 119m␤»
14:32 gfldex rakudo: my @a = <foo.txt bar.txt baz.txt>; @a>>.split('.')[*-1].say;
14:32 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«txt␤»
14:33 gfldex am i asking for something unreasonable?
14:33 masak gfldex: why not do the split after the indexing?
14:33 masak gfldex: depends what you want to do, of course.
14:33 moritz_ gfldex: no; you get exactly what you're asking for
14:33 gfldex :(
14:33 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = <foo.txt bar.txt baz.txt>; @a>>.split('.')>>.[*-1].say;
14:33 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«footxtbartxtbaztxt␤»
14:33 masak gfldex: start by exaplaining what you expected.
14:34 [Coke] ash_ i used try.rakudo.org with IE8 no problems.
14:34 gfldex i want to split by '.' and get the last element for each element in @a
14:34 ash_ [Coke]++ thanks for trying it, i don't have regular access to windows
14:34 masak I see. seems moritz_++ caught on before I did.
14:34 pmurias joined #perl6
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14:35 moritz_ problem is that >>. flattens the left-hand side
14:35 masak nod.
14:35 gfldex i c
14:35 masak so that can't work.
14:35 masak probably use a map instead.
14:35 gfldex so >>. is not so hot if i want to modify values of a list
14:35 gfldex unless the method is doing it ofc
14:35 masak rakudo: my @a = <foo.txt bar.txt baz.txt>; .say for map { .split('.')[*-1] }, @a
14:36 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«txt␤txt␤txt␤»
14:36 masak \o/
14:36 jnthn I'm back. Nu jag har öl! Moja chladnička je vesela.
14:36 masak gfldex: it's not so much about modifying values as it is about flattening.
14:38 ash_ is there much of a difference between @a.map: { } and map { }, @a ?
14:39 moritz_ precedence!
14:39 moritz_ as ruoso demonstrated above
14:39 alester left #perl6
14:40 masak although to be fair, both can bite you precedence-wise :P
14:41 moritz_ yes
14:42 tadzik ash_: the first one is better for you don't have to remember the order of arguments to map :)
14:42 tadzik jnthn: "My fridge is happy"?
14:43 ash_ rakudo: my @a = <a b c>; .say for @a.map: { $^x eq 'b' | 'c' }
14:43 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«any(Bool::False)␤any(Bool::True, Bool::False)␤any(Bool::False, Bool::True)␤»
14:43 jnthn tadzik: 'cus it's full of beer now :-)
14:43 moritz_ instead you have to remember if the list or the block is used as invocant
14:43 tadzik jnthn: yeah, I figured that out. I was just checking my Slovak (Czech?) understanding :)
14:43 jnthn 'twas Slovak. :-)
14:43 moritz_ my hovercraft is full of eels!
14:43 tadzik I recently bought the beer in a shop and it was outdated :(
14:44 jnthn Which is too bad, because otherwise you coulda czeched your understanding... :-)
14:44 ash_ s/hovercraft/lovercraft/ ?
14:44 tadzik lovecraft rather :)
14:44 jnthn tadzik: Eww :-(
14:44 tadzik and it was my favourite one!
14:44 tadzik At least they give back 0.5 PLN for a bottle
14:44 jnthn I loved that scheme.
14:45 jnthn You collected enough bottles, then you eventually could take enough back to get "free" beer :-)
14:45 tadzik haha, we call that the deriviate (?) of the party
14:45 leprevost left #perl6
14:45 tadzik how is it spelled...
14:46 moritz_ derivative?
14:46 moritz_ or derivate?
14:46 jnthn ...dunno, I just know that beer is an integral part of a party. :-)
14:46 tadzik derivative
14:46 moritz_ that makes sense
14:46 ash_ oh, the math jokes :P
14:46 tadzik so the derivative of the party is an amount of beer you can buy for selling the bottles from the party
14:46 masak a derivative is something you can get in maths; a derivate is something you can get in chemistry
14:46 tadzik and a good party is one of which the 2nd derivative is positive
14:47 [Coke] jnthn: ... I think you've taken this joke to the limit.
14:48 tadzik hah, Math jokes. <i> Get rational! – <pi> Get real!
14:48 tadzik s/Get/Be/
14:48 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
14:49 tadzik good morning pmichaud
14:49 moritz_ good morning
14:49 jnthn morning, pmichaud
14:49 pmichaud did we ever pick a time for #cpan6sketch?
14:50 tadzik 70 minutes remaining
14:50 masak mo'nin', pm.
14:50 meraxes joined #perl6
14:50 [Coke] ~~
14:50 hirschnase left #perl6
14:51 masak std: ~~
14:51 p6eval std : OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Expecting a term, but found either infix ~~ or redundant prefix ~␤  (to suppress this message, please use space between ~ ~) at /tmp/FRCh9Q68g0 line 1:␤------> [32m~~[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 115m␤»
14:51 [Coke] Given how hard it seems to be to meet on IRC for cpan6sketch, wouldn't email be a good fallback?
14:51 masak [Coke]: ssh, don't ruin it! this meeting will be the one that everyone makes it to! :)
14:52 [Coke] HEE!
14:52 [Coke] good luck, we're all counting on you!
14:53 masak speaking of which, will sorear++ attend?
14:55 mfollett joined #perl6
14:55 * masak finds himself using T much more since the PGE-to-nqp-rx regression re charclasses with backslashed things in them
14:55 masak probably a good thing.
15:00 moritz_ what is \T ?
15:01 masak anything but \t
15:01 masak the general rule is...
15:01 moritz_ right
15:01 masak ...right.
15:01 moritz_ you don't talk about the fight club.
15:01 masak :)
15:02 tadzik I'm tempted to watch this film
15:03 [Coke] I read the book first. I'm not sure which I recommend doing first.
15:03 tadzik When I watch the films after reading the book, I'm always disappointed and I happen to hate the films after all
15:03 leprevost joined #perl6
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15:04 tadzik Forrest Gump, Night Watch... maybe Hannibal series wasn't _that_ bad
15:04 Italian_Plumber left #perl6
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15:24 masak rakudo: my @a = <foo bar baz>; say @a[3] ~~ /foo/
15:24 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«Method 'match' not found for invocant of class ''␤  in 'Regex::ACCEPTS' at line 5948:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/_OtNlBNk6k␤»
15:24 arnsholt left #perl6
15:24 masak this feels familiar? might I have reported this one previously?
15:24 masak rakudo: my @a = <foo bar baz>; say @a[3].WHAT
15:25 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
15:25 masak rakudo: say Any ~~ /foo/
15:25 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«Method 'match' not found for invocant of class ''␤  in 'Regex::ACCEPTS' at line 5948:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/rdxfe0X2Om␤»
15:26 masak I think I'd maybe like for the match to appear to have been done against an empty string. and then a warning.
15:26 moritz_ that can be arranged, if specced
15:27 * masak glances at the spec. the spec glances back.
15:27 jnthn It must be love!
15:28 masak
15:29 masak Any       Regex     pattern match           .match(X)
15:29 moritz_ indeed
15:29 masak there's already a line in the smartmatch table for it.
15:29 moritz_ then it's probably a simple matter of moving .match from Cool to Any
15:29 JimmyZ_ joined #perl6
15:30 masak "The spec: in half of the cases, it already had it that way" :)
15:31 Italian_Plumber joined #perl6
15:32 masak Any       Match     identity                $_
15:32 masak I find that line confuddling.
15:32 masak it's about regex Match objects, yes?
15:32 masak how does the description "identity" square against checking only $_ (which should be only the lhs of the infix:<~~>)?
15:33 masak s/square against/square with/
15:34 JimmyZ_ 晚上好,麦高
15:34 moritz_ it returns the Match, not the Any
15:34 masak well, that's not "identity". that's "was the Match true?"
15:35 moritz_ it's one of two possible identities
15:35 takadonet left #perl6
15:35 masak 下午好,卓明亮
15:35 masak moritz_: ok, fair enough.
15:36 moritz_ I agree it's not very accurate though
15:36 JimmyZ_ 呵呵
15:36 Ross joined #perl6
15:36 masak moritz_: I also question whether it's very useful. if I want identity, most often I do... nothing. and that tends to work.
15:36 masak I realize that this is for 'when' semantics.
15:36 masak and I still question whether it's useful.
15:37 masak generally, I'd expect string comparison against the stringified Match in that case.
15:37 moritz_ masak: so you expect 'abc' ~~ m/b/ to fail?
15:37 Holy_Cow joined #perl6
15:38 masak depends what's in $_
15:38 takadonet joined #perl6
15:38 moritz_ ~~ sets $_ to 'abc'
15:38 masak oh right!
15:38 masak new semantics.
15:38 moritz_ "new"
15:38 masak :)
15:38 masak newer than those in my brain, that is.
15:39 ruoso left #perl6
15:43 moritz_ \o/ Stuttgart.pm currently brainstorms about making a Rakudo workshop
15:43 jnthn \o/
15:43 masak \o/
15:43 jnthn Ooh, I never went there.
15:43 moritz_ they invited me, and offered to pay train ticket and a pizza :-)
15:44 jnthn oooh
15:44 jnthn pizza++
15:44 jnthn That's how know know it's a *real* hackathon.
15:44 moritz_ :-)
15:47 gottreu should the perl6.org homepage point to the STD.pm6 and viv files directly in github, or to the perl6/std repo as a whole?
15:47 * gottreu is finding bugfixes that are at his level.
15:47 moritz_ probably to the repo as a whole
15:50 dalek nqp-rx/master: f59925c | pmichaud++ | examples/fib.nqp:
15:50 dalek nqp-rx/master: Add fib.nqp as a recursion benchmark example.
15:50 dalek nqp-rx/master: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/f59925ced7063e24384e7708a40384dc23e48221
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15:59 mberends #cpan6sketch in 1 min?
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16:00 Holy_Cow joined #perl6
16:00 masak mberends: now now now
16:00 Trashlord now now now
16:00 Trashlord NOW
16:00 dju left #perl6
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16:00 Trashlord oh, I mean hey
16:01 masak hey
16:01 gottreu there's a parrot sketch and a cpan6 sketch, are there perl6 or rakudo sketches?
16:02 masak there used to be a perl6sketch, but it changed names to '#phasers'
16:02 masak and it's three hours from now, I think.
16:02 gottreu masak: Danke.
16:05 JimmyZ_ joined #perl6
16:07 TimToady Alias_: they're looking for someone who knows something on #cpan6sketch  :)
16:08 masak Alias_: halp!
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17:18 sjn is now known as __sjn
17:18 sjn_ is now known as sjn
17:27 flussence huh... konqueror accepts -webkit- css prefixes now.
17:27 __sjn is now known as sjn_
17:27 * flussence is attempting to get try.rakudo.org working in KHTML
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17:31 moritz_ rakudo: say [+] False, False, True, False
17:31 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«1␤»
17:32 ash_ flussence: i use webkit, mozilla and css3 identifiers in the stylesheet on try.rakudo.org, so if it supports css3 properly it just uses that
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17:32 ash_ the great thing about css, is if it sees a completely bogus statement, it just ignores it, so having all 3 doesn't cause any problems
17:33 flussence ash_: yeah, it seems to work fine (KDE 4.5.1). Used to be the case that -khtml- had better compatibility than -webkit-.
17:33 flussence now I need to figure out why the JS doesn't work...
17:34 flussence oh, F5 fixed it.
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18:24 dalek ecosystem: f7b94ff | supernovus++ | projects.list:
18:24 dalek ecosystem: Added hash-has, HashConfig and WebRequest. Removed ww6.
18:24 dalek ecosystem: review: http://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/f7b94ff3dbe1065aaea43cc61ef65b5d72579616
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18:30 ash_ gah, i feel like the second i exit my ssh to the try.rakudo server, it gets all slow and i get worried its about to barf again
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18:38 ash_ .u
18:38 phenny U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE ( )
18:38 ash_ .u
18:38 phenny ash_: 1 SPACE (U+0020)
18:40 ash_ when did the spec remove the AUTO* from packages? i see its all handled by a multi CANDO now
18:41 ash_ err, CANDO is for checking if it something responds to a method name, i guess thats not the same
18:45 ash_ std: package Foo { AUTOSUB { { "foo" } } }
18:45 p6eval std : OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Undeclared name:␤      'AUTOSUB' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 116m␤»
18:51 ash_ can you inspect a namespace?
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19:10 masak "Perl 6 has Moose built in" -- while not strictly true, has a certain truthiness to it. http://twitter.com/bingosnet/status/25143238401
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19:13 tadzik the part of my Rakudo Star talk was about "what modules we won't need now", there were a few
19:14 tadzik . o O ( Perl 6 doesn't have to steal its successor OOP )
19:14 masak tadzik: I might have a section on that in my madness/method talk in Paris next month.
19:14 jnthn method madness() { ... }
19:14 tadzik btw, what happened to alexm?
19:15 tadzik He was giving my a talk with a traslated slides of mine on the day of first R* release, and I haven't seen him ever since to ask how it was
19:16 tadzik btw, you may know, where on the http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Languages page is the url to LOLCODE repo?
19:18 ash_ tadzik: what do you mean? like https://svn.parrot.org/languages/lolcode/ ?
19:18 tadzik ash_: exactly, thank you. Where is that url?
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19:19 ash_ i guessed it? all the stuff in the parrot trac for languages is in the svn.parrot.org/langauges repo
19:19 ash_ https://svn.parrot.org/languages/ has the whole lot of them
19:20 tadzik I guessed. Exactly. I think it'd be nice for it to be listed on the page somewhere
19:20 tadzik Parrot folks are busy optimizing stuff now, I'll maybe poke them later :)
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19:37 diakopter masak: oi
19:37 masak diakopter: io
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19:39 masak question: can http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=58022 be closed?
19:39 moritz_ yes
19:40 masak what's the status on tests for 'as'?
19:41 moritz_ t/spec/S06-traits/as.t has some
19:41 * masak closes
19:41 diakopter may I ask what 'as' is
19:41 moritz_ coercion
19:41 Util perl6: my @z = 1,2 X 3,4 X 5,6; @z.perl.say;
19:41 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<X>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Any $lhs, Any $rhs)␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Fb9IZKjNqn␤»
19:41 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤»
19:41 masak rakudo: sub foo($a as Str) { say $a.WHAT }; foo(42)
19:41 moritz_ rakudo: sub f($x as Int) { say $x.perl }; f('123')
19:42 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«Str()␤»
19:42 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«123␤»
19:42 masak :P
19:42 moritz_ :-)
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19:42 diakopter masak: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert/archive/2010/09/16/is-is-as-or-is-as-is.aspx
19:43 Util perl6: ( 1,2 X 3,4 X 5,6 ).perl.say;
19:43 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<X>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Any $lhs, Any $rhs)␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/lMbqBtJgTL␤»
19:43 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«((1, 3, 5), (1, 3, 6), (1, 4, 5), (1, 4, 6), (2, 3, 5), (2, 3, 6), (2, 4, 5), (2, 4, 6))␤»
19:43 Util Why does this fail in Rakudo?
19:43 masak pugs is right. rakudo used to handle this.
19:43 masak it's some parsing issue.
19:43 moritz_ not parsing
19:43 moritz_ absence of slice/tree context
19:43 masak oh!
19:44 masak diakopter: love the title :P
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19:44 sbp "I do not necessarily write about things that are important for developers to understand; I write about things that are fabulous! And the person who gets to decide what is fabulous is me."
19:44 sbp (from is is as or is as is, a comment by the author)
19:45 wamba left #perl6
19:46 masak sbp: "all your money back if you're not satisfied" :)
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19:48 Util moritz_: S03 says it should work as stated.
19:48 moritz_ Util: right; I just disagree with masak's diagnosis of why it doesn't work today
19:48 masak and I agree with moritz_. :P
19:48 moritz_ (at least in rakudo)
19:48 diakopter masak: so basically, in C#, they're the the same operation, just with different return types at the type-checking level.
19:49 masak diakopter: cute.
19:49 Util Is there a workaround syntax? (for a RosettaCode solution I am working on)
19:49 * moritz_ knows none
19:50 diakopter does Perl 6 have a "coercion succeeded" test (similar to "is" in C# as mentioned above)
19:50 pmichaud rakudo:  (( 1,2 X 3,4 ) X (5,6)).perl.say
19:50 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«((1, 5), (1, 6), (3, 5), (3, 6), (1, 5), (1, 6), (4, 5), (4, 6), (2, 5), (2, 6), (3, 5), (3, 6), (2, 5), (2, 6), (4, 5), (4, 6))␤»
19:50 masak Util: writing your own sub that DTRT.
19:50 pmichaud oh, that's flattening.
19:51 pmichaud bleh.
19:51 masak flattening will get you nowhere!
19:51 moritz_ any objections to bumping PARROT_REVISION?
19:51 diakopter I mean, I retract my question.
19:51 jnthn .oO( She really flattened me... )
19:51 pmichaud moritz_: no objection... I tested earlier (it worked) but didn't get to commit the bump.
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19:52 masak jnthn: you probably shouldn't have gone to her flat, then.
19:53 dalek rakudo: 1222485 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
19:53 dalek rakudo: run two more test files
19:53 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/12224852589433922e6ae657b73bbb2ac96e58b1
19:53 dalek rakudo: acc8fcb | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
19:53 dalek rakudo: bump PARROT_REVISION to 2.8.0 release
19:53 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/acc8fcbdf15aa25e31992169ec47184a0d1a58ce
19:53 dalek rakudo: ac9fdb9 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
19:53 dalek rakudo: fix test nmae, moritz--
19:53 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ac9fdb9f4beee9ba3c6a46824028ce4934e3b88d
19:54 Util jnthn: Do you have MSI-building directions for R* written up anywhere? (presuming you did the 2010.07 MSI)
19:54 jnthn Util: No, writing them up is on my todo list.
19:54 moritz_ anybody wants to do the release on Thursday?
19:54 Util jnthn: OK, thanks
19:54 jnthn Util: But basically, just used the MSI builder built into Visual Studio.
19:55 jnthn A setup project or worreva it's called
19:55 Util (which I lack)
19:55 jnthn So the instructions won't be very useful to anyone without VS
19:55 jnthn Right.
19:55 moritz_ if nobody wants to, I can do it; but I've done two releases before, and don't need practise anymore :-)
19:58 flussence rakudo: say Hash.new(:key('A'|'B'|'C'), :value<bronze>).perl # is it possible to write this out shorter? (from http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2010-09-20#i_2845966)
19:58 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«{"key" => any("A", "B", "C"), "value" => "bronze"}␤»
19:58 masak huh.
19:59 moritz_ rakudo: say { key => any(<A B C>), :value<bronze> }.perl
19:59 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«{"key" => any("A", "B", "C"), "value" => "bronze"}␤»
19:59 masak flussence: that doesn't look like it means what you probably think it means.
19:59 masak then again, I haven't checked the backlog reference.
19:59 moritz_ anyway, { ... } is shorter than Hash.new(...)
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19:59 masak :)
20:00 ash_ rakudo: {key => 'A'|'B'|'C', :value<bronze>}.perl.say
20:00 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«{"key" => any("A", "B", "C"), "value" => "bronze"}␤»
20:00 flussence yeah, I was being verbose there just to rule out everything...
20:00 masak the essence of flussence's question is very worthwhile, though. I'd definitely like for all of the basic types to be creatable via constructors on their type objects.
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20:00 Util rakudo: my %h = < A B C > X=> 'bronze'; %h.perl.say;
20:00 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«{"A" => "bronze", "B" => "bronze", "C" => "bronze"}␤»
20:01 flussence (it's not originally my question, so I don't know the right answer :)
20:01 ash_ Util++ i didn't even think of that
20:01 masak flussence: what I meant was that you have one key named 'key' and one key named 'value'. I figured that with those names, there was a high probability in confusion in the questioner. :)
20:02 masak ash_: that's not the same, though. doesn't have the junction.
20:02 Util ash_: RosettaCode is honing my golfing^Widioms.
20:02 Util masak: I was assuming that flussence did not really want the junction; that it was in error.
20:02 ash_ it's probably closer to what the original questioner wanted though, i imagine...
20:03 flussence whoops, yeah that line of code I wrote was completely wrong
20:03 masak Util: an assumption as good as any, I think.
20:03 * flussence needs more coffee
20:03 * ash_ has spent the last 2 weeks trying to not drink coffe... or caffeine
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20:12 moritz_ any suggestions for a release name?
20:12 hudnix rakudo: ([X] 1,2).perl.say
20:12 dalek rakudo: 750a024 | moritz++ | docs/announce/2010.09:
20:12 dalek rakudo: [release] initial 2010.09 announcement
20:12 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/750a02453757aea2443311c6630c64c11b186dd6
20:12 moritz_ any perlmongers group that did something Perl 6 related in the last few months?
20:12 jnthn Did we already have an Oslo?
20:12 jnthn I guess so
20:12 p6eval rakudo be80e9: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤  in 'Block::count' at line 5898:CORE.setting␤  in 'Block::count' at line 5902:CORE.setting␤  in 'Any::join' at line 1␤  in 'List::perl' at line 2631:CORE.setting␤  in <anon> at line 1␤  in 'Any::join' at line 1␤  in 'List::perl' at line
20:12 p6eval ..2631:CORE.s…
20:12 masak I believe in finding ways to code that don't require stimulants. :)
20:12 moritz_ jnthn: yes, after NPW
20:13 jnthn masak: I did.
20:13 jnthn masak: I use a depressant instead.
20:13 jnthn :P
20:13 jnthn But I drink coffee in a morning too.
20:13 jnthn So it all balances out perfectly.
20:14 jnthn moritz_: Yeah, I seemed to remember they'd already had it. Otherwise woulda been good.
20:14 masak or, put differently, I don't want to limit my coding to moments of some kind of chemical high. I like coding too much for that.
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20:17 sjohnson yo dudes
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20:20 jnthn o/ sjohnson
20:20 sjohnson hi!
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20:30 avuserow hello #perl6!
20:31 avuserow I'd like to give some kudos to all the people who have been optimizing rakudo. It's certainly a big difference from when I last wrote code for it.
20:32 jnthn avuserow: Thanks for the encouragement. :-) There's plenty of optimization to go yet, but happy that you're finding what's improved so far helpful. :-)
20:32 avuserow (that was about a year ago, and at least the startup time has been improved a ton.)
20:33 avuserow it's to the point now where I'll start using it for random one-off things for classwork instead of perl5
20:39 tadzik how likely is it to use some post-2.8.0 Parrot for the Rakudo release?
20:42 PerlJam tadzik: you mean to get the recent optimizations in?
20:42 tadzik ywis :)
20:43 tadzik and maybe even gc_massacre
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20:56 flussence yay, I got a try.rakudo.org server running locally
20:57 flussence now to see if I can break it...
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22:19 TimToady so I'm translating a relatively large program, and now it compiles, and I run it and I get "Too many positional parameters passed; got 2 but expected 1"
22:19 TimToady from somewhere...
22:20 jnthn It...really says "somewhere"?
22:20 TimToady no, it says nothing
22:20 TimToady that's all it says
22:20 TimToady the stuff in quotes
22:21 jnthn :|
22:21 diakopter this is in pugs, right? ;)
22:21 TimToady perhaps it's because I have a:     say $! if $!;
22:21 jnthn TimToady: Can sometimes happen when something goes horribly wrong with e.g. code running to set up meta-objects.
22:22 TimToady well, I did just tranlate a hash/array solution to a class-based solution... :/
22:23 jnthn Sounds possible. I can probably track it down if I have the code.
22:23 dju left #perl6
22:23 TimToady trying to run it without the try, which was really just a safegard in raw mode
22:23 TimToady ah, $! is apparently only reporting the first line
22:24 jnthn Oh.
22:24 jnthn Yeah, I guess it doesn't dump the whole backtrace by default.
22:24 TimToady all the location info is in subsequent lines
22:24 jnthn That's probably right much of the time...
22:24 jnthn Well, it's more that when it's caught at the top level, it prints $! and then goes and prints the backtrace.
22:25 jnthn Rather than the actual message containing that all stringified too.
22:25 TimToady well, perl 5's message usually has a line number in the first line
22:25 jnthn Ah.
22:25 TimToady with rakudo I usually have to look down the list for the one line number that makes sense
22:26 jnthn The first one in the list is usually meant to, unless the failure occurs somewhere in CORE
22:27 TimToady which it was, in this case
22:27 jnthn *nod*
22:27 TimToady EnumMap::new, specifically :)
22:27 jnthn I can argue showing the core frames by default either way.
22:27 sjohnson hi!
22:27 jnthn When the failure is in some closure, it's maybe less confusing to know it was actually invoked by map, for example.
22:30 jnthn TimToady: Anyways, opinions on improving/re-shuffling error info welcome. Especially in email-to-rakudobug form.
22:31 jnthn Once I get my head out of the meta-model re-implementation, I can take a look at improvements there. Other @other can.
22:32 jnthn Morning meeting in Malmö, sleep time. o/
22:32 estrabd is now known as estrabd_afk
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23:16 flussence rakudo: sub tetrate { [**] * xx * }; say tetrate(2, 4)
23:16 p6eval rakudo 750a02: OUTPUT«PackFile_unpack: This Parrot cannot read bytecode files with version 8.4.␤␤PackFile header failed during unpack␤»
23:16 flussence caught it at a bad time?
23:17 diakopter weird
23:18 flussence just tried it locally and it wouldn't work anyway, it wanted $^a and $^b instead :(
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23:27 ash_ so
23:27 ash_ who wants to help me with something?
23:27 ash_ i know someone wants to, who knows javascript and/or json? :P
23:27 flussence !
23:27 flussence me(-ish)
23:28 ash_ i want to get working on the tutorial system in try.rakudo, it would be nice/awesome/useful/helpful if you want to help out
23:29 flussence ok, I've been poking around the code already :)
23:29 flussence (not that bit so far)
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23:31 ash_ http://github.com/moritz/try.rakudo.org/blob/master/frontend/public/js/try.js#L82 i have a command in there already that is the beginings of this
23:32 ash_ basically, i have a list of commands in javascript, and if the stdin (the textbox) has something that matches, then i execute the command
23:33 ash_ so, saying, 'chapter 1' should load chapter 1's text and so on
23:35 ash_ http://github.com/moritz/try.rakudo.org/blob/master/frontend/data/chapters/index.js has the index of the chapters, i was going to build all of the content from those, in that folder i started a 1.js which should be chapter 1, i need to figure out a bit more on how you'll specify input and output, so you can tell when to progress through the tutorial though. i haven't figured that out yet, i imagine it will be a lot of regex's though
23:37 flussence seems straightforward enough
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23:39 ash_ i'll need to add commands to move forward/backwards through the steps of the chapter, but each chapter will be a set of steps, i imagine, along the lines of "try typing 1 + 3" "try [+] 1..3"
23:42 s1n joined #perl6
23:46 flussence I've made a start on it, anyway: http://github.com/flussence/try.rakudo.org/commit/d085ee7
23:47 araujo joined #perl6
23:48 ash_ ping moritz_
23:50 ash_ have you figured out how to run the server andstuff on your computer?
23:50 flussence yep
23:51 ash_ cool, i tried to keep the requirements basic, it uses Mojo and IO::HalfDuplex so far
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23:55 ash_ flussence: do you want me to merge any of your changes up?
23:56 flussence go ahead if you think they're useful
23:57 ash_ kk
23:57 ggoebel joined #perl6
23:59 ash_ hmm

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