Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-09-28

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 dalek niecza/mm: 1230f2e | sorear++ | / (5 files):
00:01 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] Implement compilation of settings
00:01 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/1​230f2e51bf14a50077ea5f9cad8f20c7c9f1d0b
00:01 dalek niecza/mm: 8b3c3db | sorear++ | src/ (3 files):
00:01 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] Implement compilation of modules which use settings
00:01 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8​b3c3db3f821941fad217a4e2b5d254aae27094b
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03:08 sorear good * #perl6
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03:30 sorear \o/ niecza/mm can now run setting-using code "hello, world".say
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03:43 ash_ sorear: i was thinking about see if it was possible to somehow keep all the fires that make up core.pm as their individual files instead of just concatenating them together, then compiling each file individually into a pir, then compile each of the pir's into pbc's and finally using pbc_merge
03:47 sorear ash_: it's a cute idea, but it won't work.  The setting has to be a single parrot Sub
03:47 ash_ why?
03:48 ash_ could there not be a setting's module that you can append to later on? like how you can always say GLOBAL::
03:48 sorear ash_: because set_outer only takes one argument
03:48 sorear ash_: the setting is NOT a module, this is a crucial point
03:48 sorear the setting is a Sub which user code is inside of
03:49 ash_ so, your saying all of the initialization that happens in core.pm needs to happen lexically outside of the user code?
03:49 sorear yes
03:50 sorear Something can be done, I'm sure, but you'll need a much bigger hammer than pbc_merge
03:50 sorear probably, a custom LexPad instance will be required
03:50 ash_ ya, sounds like it
03:50 sorear talk to pmichaud FIRST
03:51 ash_ doesn't everything get added to GLOBAL? from core.pm?
03:51 sorear NO!
03:51 ash_ ah
03:52 sorear read S02:2590
03:52 sorear ash_: the REPL can extend a single lexical scope
03:53 sorear you should study it
03:53 sorear also, get pmichaud to commit to accepting your idea before you write the patch; I forgot this step the last time I implemented core splitting
03:53 ash_ oh, that reminds me of a repl bug, you might have more ideas about it than me, in a repl do: my $*a; <enter> then: say $*a;
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03:59 ash_ so, if you do: use SETTING_MODE; # that's in rakudo already to specify the start of SETTING, could you make that comp_unit append to a special LexPad that was the SETTING scope LexPad? does that sound reasonable?
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04:07 araujo http://ideone.com/HloeA
04:09 araujo I guess, '+ [ 1 ] [ 3 ] => [ 1 3 ] , + [ 2 ] 4 => [ 2 4 ]' ... those operations make sense, though I wonder if it either makes sense for '+ 2 [ 4 ]' to return the index sum or a list with 2 added to each element ... :/
04:09 sorear ash_: "reasonable" is a rather high bar to shoot for
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04:11 ash_ well, i'd start with reasonable then move to practical
04:11 ash_ what is that written in? the ideone.com thing
04:11 ash_ oh, it says at the top, erlang, nm
04:12 araujo ash_, hehe, it is a small language i write
04:12 araujo I just pick erlan as the syntax highlight
04:12 araujo :P
04:12 ash_ oh, got ya
04:13 sorear ash_: start with working, then move to reasonable
04:13 ash_ sorear: just making sure the idea sounds good, if the idea doesn't make sense, then i need to think more
04:14 sorear ash_: it doesn't make less sense than what we already have, that would be hard
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04:14 araujo even though I got quicksort working, I still can't find a name for this .... -_- ... so if anyone has an idea, let me know
04:16 ash_ araujo: which this?
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04:18 araujo ash_, oh, the language
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04:37 tadzik good morning
04:38 sorear hello tadzik
04:39 diakopter anyone know offhand where's the new place to put botnix paths
04:40 diakopter aka dalek
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04:40 diakopter aka Infinoid hilite
04:41 sorear diakopter: dalek-conf.json in mu
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04:41 diakopter sorear: thanks
04:41 sorear dalek git pulls once an hour and reloads config from the repo
04:41 diakopter ok. i'm in no hurry, but I'm adding sprixel -3.0
04:42 diakopter that's a negative sign, btw
04:43 diakopter sigh. but I don't want to clone all of mu... oh well.
04:43 * diakopter whiner
04:43 sorear it's smaller than a svn checkout of just one revision
04:44 diakopter but I can svn checkout just that file
04:44 diakopter well, at least just that file's dir
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04:48 diakopter wait, by 'git clone mu' did I just download *all* revisions/diffs of mu?
04:48 tadzik yep
04:48 tadzik (tip: it's not that big)
04:49 sorear That includes stuff which has been deleted, like every version of Pugs itself and every version of the testsuite
04:49 diakopter yeah
04:49 * sorear wonders how well github's rw-svn would work for mu
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04:57 dalek mu: a0dc5ad | diakopter++ | misc/dalek-conf.json:
04:57 dalek mu: add sprixel negative three point oh to dalek-conf.json
04:57 dalek mu: review: http://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/a0d​c5adb423e309dcd31ab8bc6fd6612b2bc4af7
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05:06 cbk rakudo: my @input =<2 4 6 8 10>; say "DATA SET: "~@input; say "Max: "~@input.max; say "Min: "~@input.min;
05:06 p6eval rakudo 607ec4: OUTPUT«DATA SET: 2 4 6 8 10␤Max: 8␤Min: 10␤»
05:07 nymacro nasty
05:07 nymacro rakudo: my @input = <2 4 6 8 10>; say "DATA SET: "~@input; say "Max: "~[max]@input; say "Min: "~[min]@input;
05:07 p6eval rakudo 607ec4: OUTPUT«DATA SET: 2 4 6 8 10␤Max: 8␤Min: 10␤»
05:08 cbk ??
05:08 cbk i don't think 10 is the smallest number in the set...
05:09 nymacro Yeah, seems like something has been broken
05:09 * nymacro points at moritz_
05:09 nymacro hmm
05:10 cbk rakudo: my @input =<2 4 6 8 10>; say "DATA SET Sorted: "~@input.sort;
05:10 p6eval rakudo 607ec4: OUTPUT«DATA SET Sorted: 10 2 4 6 8␤»
05:11 nymacro rakudo: my @input = 0..5;  say "DATA SET: "~@input; say "Max: "~@input.max; say "Min: "~@input.min;
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05:11 p6eval rakudo 607ec4: OUTPUT«DATA SET: 0 1 2 3 4 5␤Max: 5␤Min: 0␤»
05:11 sorear stefan@stefans:~/rel/niecza$ ./niecza_eval -L SAFE -e 'say "Hello, world"'
05:11 sorear Hello, world
05:11 plobsing rakudo: my @input = < 2 4 6 8 10>.map(+*); say "Max: ", @input.max; say "Min: ", @input.min
05:12 p6eval rakudo 607ec4: OUTPUT«Max: 10␤Min: 2␤»
05:12 plobsing nymacro: you have a list of strings. 10 is the min by string comparison
05:13 nymacro plobsing, oh, true :)
05:13 cbk so putting in .map(+*) means what?
05:13 nymacro I had a misunderstanding of < > I guess
05:13 plobsing +$x => num-context($x)
05:14 plobsing +* => -> { +$_ }
05:15 TimToady see S02:3373, which rakudo doesn't implement yet
05:15 plobsing s/->//
05:15 dalek niecza/mm: 7facc7e | sorear++ | / (3 files):
05:15 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] implement loopback pointer generation
05:15 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/7​facc7e08f3aa2697176199dc27785180538835b
05:15 dalek niecza/mm: d298d03 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
05:15 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] Start a new setting; fix package vars
05:15 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/d​298d038cd464c72d5b6c50bfb8f55116dfa71aa
05:15 dalek niecza/mm: 9bec6d1 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
05:15 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] implement .HOW (thus .^isa and ~~)
05:15 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/9​bec6d17017aaa189c46e3e9687b648ca4575912
05:17 TimToady <2 4 6 8 10> is *supposed* to return a list of integers
05:17 nymacro thanks for the clarification :>
05:18 cbk ok I was going crazy for a bit.  I was thinking I had bad install of rakudo*  I even tried removing and reinstalling it... :)
05:18 cbk Thanks
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06:25 dalek ecosystem: ba2533f | moritz++ | projects.list:
06:25 dalek ecosystem: add cache-memcached by cosimo++
06:25 dalek ecosystem: review: http://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/​ba2533fa370c4b32eda3dd3e443923234802a19a
06:25 moritz_ phenny: tell cosimo perl6-cache-memcached added. You also have commit access to perl6/ecosystem on github now, so you can do it yourself next time
06:25 phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when cosimo is around.
06:28 moritz_ good morning
06:28 tadzik good morning moritz_
06:28 sorear good morning
06:29 * sorear wonders if he can do anything useful with ecosystem
06:31 dalek niecza/mm: c0b5aee | sorear++ | src/CSharpBackend.pm:
06:31 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] Implement conditional generation of spads
06:31 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c​0b5aeea6cbb8d49ede33986e68f73929dbc9e0a
06:31 dalek niecza/mm: 8497b08 | sorear++ | src/CSharpBackend.pm:
06:31 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] implement non-cloned variables
06:31 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8​497b0859b086d9bad5ceb6550b6700af660b937
06:34 tadzik bah, my cronjob on feather doesn't work for some reason
06:36 dalek ecosystem: c035df0 | tadzik++ | projects.list:
06:36 dalek ecosystem: Added xxx-pm6
06:36 dalek ecosystem: review: http://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/​c035df04288eec745280eabf63dbc6b6df091fbc
06:42 moritz_ tadzik: I see you changed the format of projects.list; that brakes modules.perl6.org updating
06:42 tadzik oh
06:43 tadzik where is the repo?
06:43 moritz_ perl6 account
06:44 moritz_ http://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/
06:44 tadzik yeah, I'm on it
06:45 moritz_ ++tadzik
06:45 tadzik hey, don't increment me too early! :)
06:46 moritz_ pre-increment for pre-karma
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07:02 tadzik moritz_: I made build-project-list.pl run, waiting for some results
07:05 moritz_ sh update-modules.perl6.org
07:05 moritz_ malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["ABC git://github.com..."] at /usr/share/perl5/JSON.pm line 154
07:06 moritz_ ah, you didn't commit yet
07:06 moritz_ I thought you committed, and waited for results from modules.perl6.org
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07:18 Ronnin21 http://www.rhinosgirls.com
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07:26 * tadzik senses spam, still is tempted to click
07:27 tadzik moritz_: it ended with Wide character in syswrite at /usr/lib/perl5/5.12/File/Slurp.pm line 330.
07:28 tadzik wait, syswrite in File::Slurp? :/
07:29 tadzik ah, write_file
07:29 moritz_ which means you need an encode_utf8 before it
07:31 tadzik rerunning. I never got my head around this encoding and decoding
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07:34 moritz_ http://perlgeek.de/en/arti​cle/encodings-and-unicode if you want to try :-)
07:37 tadzik Undefined subroutine &main::encode_utf8. Damn, couldn't it tell me before updating all this stuff? :(
07:38 moritz_ use Encode qw(encode_utf8)
07:38 tadzik what package is... right
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07:46 tadzik index.html and proto.json files generated
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07:49 dalek modules.perl6.org: 3b1e8d7 | tadzik++ | web/build-project-list.pl:
07:49 dalek modules.perl6.org: Fixed for non-JSON projects.list
07:49 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: http://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/com​mit/3b1e8d7980ea9e7d9cf9ad653b224e0eed94bf74
07:49 tadzik moritz_: lolipushed
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08:12 sorear suprisingly, the new metamodel seems to be much more frugal with MSIL
08:13 sorear a --gen-app hello world program is only 207KB
08:13 sorear was 300-350 before
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08:39 dalek niecza/mm: 912935b | sorear++ | src/C (3 files):
08:39 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] implement numeric lexical access
08:39 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/9​12935b40440a425227f68b6ffd9ea01fb638757
08:39 dalek niecza/mm: c5ed79f | sorear++ | / (5 files):
08:39 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] bring rest of SAFE setting over
08:39 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c​5ed79f72420a44f4c9b05bf6a326b21cf747e5c
08:39 dalek niecza/mm: f5ecfd8 | sorear++ | / (5 files):
08:39 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] Fixes for CORE & binding to package vars
08:39 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f​5ecfd83ebb7b1a93dd386baec04e79063c88df4
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09:34 bbkr rakudo: my @t="a",8; say [xx]@t #curious
09:34 p6eval rakudo 607ec4:  ( no output )
09:34 bbkr hmm
09:34 bbkr rakudo: my @t="a",8; say [x]@t #curious
09:34 p6eval rakudo 607ec4: OUTPUT«aaaaaaaa␤»
09:34 bbkr \o/
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09:40 dalek rakudo: 0bf6cbe | moritz++ | README:
09:40 dalek rakudo: update README about spectest repo
09:40 dalek rakudo:
09:40 dalek rakudo: Closes RT #78084
09:40 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0​bf6cbe3b6419ca5ed16b6fbcd877922863e0608
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09:48 masak oh hai, #perl6!
09:52 tadzik oh hai masask
09:54 sorear hello masak
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10:02 sorear masak: niecza/mm is finally to the point where I can compile and run 'use Test;'
10:02 masak sorear: wow, great news!
10:02 masak sorear++
10:03 masak sorear: what's the '/mm' part stand for?
10:04 sorear meta-model
10:04 masak ah, 'course.
10:04 sorear I don't really have a better name for it
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10:08 masak neither do I.
10:11 sorear standalone executables are about 40% smaller now btw
10:13 dalek niecza/mm: 465e4b7 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
10:13 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] Link GLOBAL/PROCESS to $*FOO
10:13 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4​65e4b75d84cf82d45417a353ea31ed9f09c2e95
10:13 dalek niecza/mm: ba6543f | sorear++ | src/ (5 files):
10:13 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] Implement use statements
10:13 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b​a6543fdee0b0363b8a1b8413b6bd7b86a9696b5
10:13 dalek niecza/mm: 88fb2a5 | sorear++ | / (4 files):
10:13 dalek niecza/mm: [mm] implement sub classes, start sorting tests
10:13 dalek niecza/mm: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8​8fb2a54f64a925f3bed560e9cb32bbe137bee81
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10:15 ggoebel sorear++
10:15 ggoebel karma sorear
10:15 aloha sorear has karma of 28.
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10:16 ggoebel perl6: 'karma sorear++'.say
10:16 p6eval pugs, rakudo 607ec4: OUTPUT«karma sorear++␤»
10:16 sorear buubot: karma sorear
10:16 buubot sorear: sorear has karma of 1051
10:16 masak buubot: karma masak
10:16 buubot masak: masak has karma of 846
10:17 ggoebel masak++
10:17 masak buubot: karma au
10:17 buubot masak: au has karma of 25
10:17 ggoebel au++
10:17 masak au++
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10:22 * sorear out
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10:40 tadzik buubot: karma tadzik
10:40 buubot tadzik: tadzik has karma of 80
10:40 tadzik nice
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10:48 jnthn Afternoon, 6ies.
10:48 nymacro evening good sir
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11:11 * araujo wonders what would be a proper value to return from '+ 1 [ 2 ]'
11:12 tadzik std: + 1 [ 2 ]
11:12 p6eval std : OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Confused at /tmp/VxYFv2X0qi line 1:␤------> [32m+ 1 [[33m⏏[31m 2 ][0m␤    expecting any of:␤     bracketed infix␤  infix or meta-infix␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 116m␤»
11:12 tadzik me neither
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11:19 nymacro http://pastebin.com/DJ8sTdjm -- 540 characters alright for a Perl 6 blackjack?
11:21 nymacro http://pastebin.com/0sbqjAQD is ungolfed; maybe there is someway better I can do something though :>
11:21 nymacro asking only for the curiosity of someone's boredom (if such a boredom exists)
11:22 daxim I played two games, then it said Winner: -Inf and returned to the rakudo prompt
11:22 daxim is it supposed to run forever?
11:22 nymacro nope
11:22 nymacro -Inf is no winner
11:22 tadzik you can ommit "use v6;" :)
11:22 nymacro it isn't the most verbal -- I'm trying to use a lot of shortcuts in P6, many of them normally wouldn't be used
11:23 tadzik if {} else {} can be changed to ?? !! :)
11:23 moritz_ sub pc(@a) -> you can use rotate() instead
11:23 daxim ♠♣♥♦ try whether these work, it's both shorter and more readable
11:23 moritz_ rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 3; say @a.rotate(-1)
11:23 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«312␤»
11:23 tadzik @d=@d.pick(*) → @d.=pick(*)
11:24 tadzik or maybe even @d.=pick:*;
11:24 nymacro oh, awesome
11:24 tadzik std: @d.=pick:*;
11:24 p6eval std : OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable @d is not predeclared at /tmp/kqsdyjzZRL line 1:␤------> [32m@d[33m⏏[31m.=pick:*;[0m␤Confused at /tmp/kqsdyjzZRL line 1:␤------> [32m@d.=pick:[33m⏏[31m*;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤       coloncircumfix␤   signature␤Parse failed␤FAILED
11:24 p6eval ..00:01 11…
11:24 tadzik std: my @d; @d.=pick:*;
11:24 p6eval std : OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Confused at /tmp/zYWCqubBt9 line 1:␤------> [32mmy @d; @d.=pick:[33m⏏[31m*;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤    coloncircumfix␤   signature␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 117m␤»
11:24 tadzik nah, () is neede
11:25 moritz_ -> [$s, $r] { %values{$r} or $r  }  can be written as { %values{.[0]} or .[0] }
11:25 tadzik also, you can omit many parentheses
11:25 nymacro yeah, there were lots of precedence cases which I wasn't sure about
11:26 tadzik std: my @a; my @b; @aX@b
11:27 p6eval std : OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable @aX is not predeclared at /tmp/WaWLxqlVgD line 1:␤------> [32mmy @a; my @b; @aX[33m⏏[31m@b[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/WaWLxqlVgD line 1:␤------> [32mmy @a; my @b; @aX[33m⏏[31m@b[0m␤    expecting any of:␤    POST␤   bracketed infix␤
11:27 p6eval ..infi…
11:27 tadzik almost
11:27 Trashlord joined #perl6
11:27 tadzik rakudo: my @a = [;]; @a[1][0] = 5; @a.perl.say
11:27 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«[[0], [5]]␤»
11:27 tadzik so, you can change [],[] to [;] :)
11:28 tadzik also, things like $_ ~ '' → $_ ~'' or even $_~''
11:29 nymacro -> {%v{.[0]} or .[0]} it doesn't seem to like
11:29 tadzik say ~$_ can be just .say?
11:29 nymacro oh, should be .[1]
11:29 nymacro heh
11:29 nymacro still though; doesn't like
11:30 nymacro std: my @a = [1, 2, 3]; say @a; say ~@a; @a.say;
11:30 p6eval std : OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
11:30 nymacro rakudo: my @a = [1, 2, 3]; say @a; say ~@a; @a.say;
11:30 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤1 2 3␤1 2 3␤»
11:31 nymacro must be something to do with the scalar which doesn't put the space between when printing
11:31 tadzik what do you mean?
11:32 nymacro when i had say ~$_; it would print the array with no spaces between some of the elements
11:32 nymacro diamonds kinghearts 7
11:32 nymacro like that
11:32 tadzik hmm
11:32 tadzik how does the $_.perl.say look?
11:33 nymacro [["clubs", 7], ["diamonds", 2]]
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11:33 tadzik rakudo: say ~[["clubs", 7], ["diamonds", 2]]
11:33 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«clubs 7 diamonds 2␤»
11:34 tadzik weird then
11:34 nymacro rakudo: say [["clubs", 7], ["diamonds", 2]];
11:34 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«clubs 7 diamonds 2␤»
11:34 nymacro hmmm.
11:34 nymacro that is werid
11:34 nymacro I'm guessing it is to do with $_
11:34 nymacro and being "scalar"
11:36 nymacro heh, just got dealt 3 aces.. any(any(any(3, 13), any(13)), any(any(13), any()))
11:37 nymacro it doesn't quite like that
11:42 pythonian4000afk is now known as pythonian4000
11:42 nymacro but cheers guys! :)
11:42 pythonian4000 is now known as pythonian4000afk
11:43 wamba left #perl6
11:43 tadzik :)
11:46 nymacro it is down to 518 chars -- a few things can still be tweaked a little. But it is a pretty solid improvement ^^
11:47 * nymacro hi fives #perl6
11:48 wamba joined #perl6
11:48 * moritz_ high sixes in response :-)
11:49 nymacro ;)
11:50 tadzik nymacro: mind showing the new code?
11:51 nymacro http://git.nymacro.com/?p=h.git;a=​blob_plain;f=bjgolfmin.p6;hb=HEAD
11:51 nymacro will need to change page to UTF-8 though
11:51 tadzik yeah
11:52 tadzik why are things like any(11) printed?
11:52 nymacro only when you have an ace
11:53 nymacro since the way it is implemented ace's value is 1|11
11:53 tadzik mhm
11:54 nymacro eg: any(6, 16) ♥ ace ♠ 5
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11:55 nymacro only problem is when it gets like this: any(16) ♥ king ♥ ace ♠ 5
11:57 nymacro I'm not absolutely sure; but I would assume that it should just be 16-- since there is only one possibility
11:57 nymacro I'm playing with fire; I'm not sure of the exact mechanics of it
12:00 masak nymacro: a junction with only one element does not de-promote itself to a non-junction.
12:00 masak I guess it could though, in the cases of 'any' and 'all'.
12:00 masak hm, and 'one', I think.
12:01 nymacro cheers :)
12:01 masonkramer are functions with typed formal parameters guaranteed to receive that type of parameter?  foo ( Int $a, Badger %b ) - is %b guaranteed to be a Badger?
12:02 moritz_ masonkramer: %b would be an Associative[Badger]
12:02 moritz_ or a subtype thereof
12:03 jnthn Furthermore, it would have to have declared itself as holding baders.
12:03 masonkramer NominalType[ValueType] ?
12:03 jnthn *badgers
12:03 pmichaud goo morning, #perl6
12:03 jnthn Not really in that sense of nominal.
12:03 jnthn pmichaud: eww, sticky!
12:03 masonkramer hehe
12:03 * moritz_ hands pmichaud a 'd'
12:03 nymacro morgen
12:03 pmichaud badgers?  BADGERS?!  WE DON"T NEED NO STINKIN BADGERS!
12:03 * pmichaud notices that his 'd' key is a little stuck.
12:04 jnthn .oO( mushroom mushroom... )
12:04 moritz_ masonkramer: it's just that 'my Int $a' and 'my Int %a' mean different things
12:04 moritz_ my Int $a:  $a can only hold values that ~~ Int
12:04 jnthn Associative is a parametric role.
12:04 pmichaud they both declare containers that hold Int :-)
12:04 moritz_ my Int %a: all(%a) ~~ Int
12:04 jnthn The one that means you can, using some key, get a value of whatever type ti's parameterized with.
12:05 tadzik nymacro: golfed down to 505
12:05 masak jnthn: aaaah snake!
12:05 nymacro tadzik, nice! This is by changing unneeded parentheses & using ternary instead of if?
12:05 [Coke] pmichaud: must be all that goo.
12:05 hatseflats left #perl6
12:05 [Coke] masak, jnthn: *thwap*
12:05 tadzik nymacro: suprisingly, changing if-else to ternary breaks stuff
12:06 tadzik nymacro: declaring hash as :key(value) is the biggest thing probably
12:06 nymacro ahhk, it wasn't just me
12:06 tadzik plus changing {$^a + $^b} to *+*
12:06 nymacro oh?
12:06 tadzik yep :)
12:06 masonkramer Thanks guys
12:07 nymacro whatever will consume arguments sequentially?
12:07 tadzik it generates a closure, taking 2 arguments
12:07 tadzik hold on, one more character and I'm below 500
12:07 nymacro ^^
12:07 pmichaud [Coke]: I am wondering if younger fingers are to blame, yes.
12:07 tadzik this ternary is annoying me
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12:09 pmichaud Bool.pick ?? "annoying" !! "still annoying"
12:11 satyavvd left #perl6
12:14 nymacro oh also tadzik! I got a redundant for loop. The first for loop can be moved to the second :)
12:15 tadzik nymacro: the last if-else can be a while, I think
12:16 nymacro yeah, it should be; at the moment is will sit if you press anything apart from 'h' :P
12:16 tadzik no, it can't
12:16 tadzik oh, maybe it can
12:17 tadzik yeah, got it
12:17 tadzik 491 so far
12:18 nymacro nice :)
12:18 tadzik it'd be easier if I understood the code
12:18 nymacro you still got my un-golfed version?
12:18 tadzik and I think the arrow->block notation is just a sugar over something, so that can be golved too I think
12:18 nymacro http://git.nymacro.com/?p=h.git;​a=blob_plain;f=bjgolf.p6;hb=HEAD
12:19 tadzik yep
12:19 nymacro ahhk :)
12:19 tadzik but what if the block takes 2 args and you're using only the second one?
12:20 nymacro yeah, I'm only using the second
12:21 nymacro since cards are [suit, rank], and we don't care what suit something is
12:21 nymacro as it doesn't change their face value
12:23 tadzik so, is there a way to do such thing w/o an arrow notation?
12:23 molaf joined #perl6
12:23 moritz_ just bind to $_, and use .[1]
12:23 nymacro the .[1] notation probably is supposed to work; but it didn't
12:24 tadzik Unsupported use of do...while; in Perl 6 please use repeat...while at line 1, near ";\n"
12:24 nymacro moritz_, wouldn't $_ get set in the closure if it is passed something without a signature?
12:24 tadzik that's not golf-friendly :(
12:25 nymacro -> [$s, $r] { %values{$r} or $r } to -> { %values{.[1]} or .[1] }
12:25 moritz_ rakudo: for [1, 2], ['a', 'b'] { say .[1] }
12:25 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«2␤b␤»
12:25 tadzik worksforme
12:25 nymacro oh? Maybe I messed it up when I tried it earlier. Hm
12:26 nymacro oh, -> $_ { %values{.[1]} or .[1] } works
12:27 tadzik bah, I broke something and I dunno when
12:27 moritz_ nymacro: then it must some weird interaction with context
12:27 tadzik yeah, I'm getting more and more cards every hit
12:28 nymacro map(-> $_ { %values{.[1]} or .[1] }, @c) works, but map(-> { %values{.[1]} or .[1] }, @c) does not
12:28 tadzik or is that desirable?
12:28 nymacro tadzik, well, you should be getting 1 extra card every hit -- doing this until you sit or bust
12:28 moritz_ nymacro: you need to remove the initial arrow
12:28 tadzik oh, ok then
12:28 nymacro oh :)
12:29 icwiener left #perl6
12:29 tadzik hmm
12:29 moritz_ -> always introduces a signature, so -> { ... } is explicitly expecting no argument
12:29 tadzik nymacro: http://gist.github.com/600888 does it work as it should?
12:29 moritz_ whereas { ... } has a $_ = OUTER::$_
12:29 tadzik 480 chars
12:29 moritz_ or so
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12:31 nymacro moritz_, ahh, thanks. I haven't read much of the synopses; lots of things I'm probably using falsely
12:31 Juerd I find -> confusing when it doesn't look infixish
12:31 Juerd e.g. for @foos -> $foo { ... } is clear, but foo(-> { ... }) is not.
12:32 tadzik same here
12:33 Juerd I don't really understand why it's preferred, instead of sub (...) { ... }
12:33 nymacro well; normally that is probably preferred. But we're golfing! :)
12:33 tadzik whitespace-sensitiveness is killing us anyway
12:34 tadzik or not
12:34 Juerd I continue to see -> much more often than unnamed "sub" in much of the p6 code out there
12:34 Juerd Can't be a golf thing.
12:34 moritz_ Juerd: which code "out there" are you talkinga about? modules?
12:35 moritz_ evalbot lines on IRC are almost always golfed too
12:35 Juerd Things I see here, including blog posts and perhaps rosetta
12:35 tadzik alright, my ideas are gone at 480 characters
12:35 nymacro I'm at 491 characters at the moment
12:36 tadzik ' or ' => ||
12:36 tadzik I still feel like the main loop can be golfed down
12:36 masak trippy. http://twitter.com/lloyda2/status/25779102812
12:37 nymacro tadzik, this is my first attempt at golf. I'm flailing in the dark with most things
12:38 pmichaud '->' is different 'sub' in that the latter is a Routine, while the former is a Block
12:38 tadzik nymacro: I think that it shouldn't just add cards forever, it should stop when the overall value is over 21
12:38 nymacro that is what mine does
12:39 tadzik well, mine does not :)
12:39 nymacro if pv($_) > 21 { say $_ ~ ' is over 21'; last }
12:39 nymacro is the check for bust
12:39 tadzik queen ♥ king ♥ king ♣ 6 ♥ 6 ♣ queen ♦ 8 ♥ 10 ♥ jack ♣ king ♦ 2 ♣ 7 ♣ queen ♠ queen ♣ 9 ♥ ace ♣ 5 ♠ 5 ♣ jack ♠ 8 ♣
12:39 tadzik (h) hit (s) sit?
12:39 tadzik :)
12:39 nymacro haha ^^
12:39 tadzik yeah, it should be
12:39 tadzik I guess I broke b()
12:39 nymacro I've just been making incremental changes and testing to ensure I don't break it
12:40 pmichaud nymacro:  did you see the version I did for calculating cards and values?
12:40 nymacro nope
12:40 * pmichaud looks
12:40 pmichaud http://www.pmichaud.com/2009/pres​/oscon-perl6op/slides/slide5.html
12:41 pmichaud the last line shows an easy way to calculate the value of a hand
12:43 masak my %points = @deck Z @( (2..10, 10, 10, 10, 11) >>xx>> 4 );
12:43 masak why is the casting needed?
12:43 nymacro pmichaud, interesting
12:43 pmichaud might've been needed to avoid a rakudo bug
12:43 pmichaud (this was 2009, after all)
12:43 masak anyway, pmichaud++
12:44 masak I've seen it many times before, but each time I get happy seeing it. :)
12:44 tadzik now I copied your b() nymacro and it still returns 0 for me. Weird
12:44 nymacro tadzik, did you break anything in your loop?
12:44 tadzik nymacro: the loop itself works. But even bare 'say b($_)' prints 0
12:44 moritz_ rakudo: say(2, 3, 3, 4) Z ((1, 2) >>xx>> 4)).perl
12:44 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near ").perl"␤»
12:44 bluescreen joined #perl6
12:45 tadzik weird
12:45 masak rakudo: my @suits = <♣ ♢ ♡ ♠>; my @ranks  = 2..10, <J Q K A>; my @deck = @ranks X~ @suits; my %points = @deck Z @( (2..10, 10, 10, 10, 11) >>xx>> 4 ); say %points.perl
12:45 moritz_ rakudo: say (2, 3, 3, 4 Z ((1, 2) >>xx>> 4)).perl
12:45 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«{"2♣" => 2, "2♢" => 2, "2♡" => 2, "2♠" => 2, "3♣" => 3, "3♢" => 3, "3♡" => 3, "3♠" => 3, "4♣" => 4, "4♢" => 4, "4♡" => 4, "4♠" => 4, "5♣" => 5, "5♢" => 5, "5♡" => 5, "5♠" => 5, "6♣" => 6, "6♢" => 6, "6♡" => 6, "6♠" => 6, "7♣" => 7, "7♢" => 7, "7♡" => 7, "7♠" => 7, "8♣" => 8,
12:45 p6eval .."8♢" =…
12:45 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«(2, 1, 3, 1, 3, 1, 4, 1)␤»
12:45 masak rakudo: my @suits = <♣ ♢ ♡ ♠>; my @ranks  = 2..10, <J Q K A>; my @deck = @ranks X~ @suits; my %points = @deck Z ( (2..10, 10, 10, 10, 11) >>xx>> 4 ); say %points.perl
12:45 moritz_ rakudo: say (2, 3, 3, 4 Z=> ((1, 2) >>xx>> 4)).perl
12:45 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«{"2♣" => 2, "2♢" => 2, "2♡" => 2, "2♠" => 2, "3♣" => 3, "3♢" => 3, "3♡" => 3, "3♠" => 3, "4♣" => 4, "4♢" => 4, "4♡" => 4, "4♠" => 4, "5♣" => 5, "5♢" => 5, "5♡" => 5, "5♠" => 5, "6♣" => 6, "6♢" => 6, "6♡" => 6, "6♠" => 6, "7♣" => 7, "7♢" => 7, "7♡" => 7, "7♠" => 7, "8♣" => 8,
12:45 p6eval .."8♢" =…
12:45 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«(2 => 1, 3 => 1, 3 => 1, 4 => 1)␤»
12:45 masak seems the casting is not needed (anymore).
12:45 moritz_ rakudo: say (2, 3, 3, 4 Z=> (1, 2 Xxx 4)).perl
12:45 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«(2 => 1, 3 => 1, 3 => 1, 4 => 1)␤»
12:46 moritz_ rakudo: say (2, 3, 3, 4 Z=> ((1, 2) Xxx 4)).perl
12:46 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«(2 => 1, 3 => 1, 3 => 1, 4 => 1)␤»
12:47 moritz_ rakudo: say (2, 3, 3, 4 Z=> ((1, 2) Xxx 2)).perl
12:47 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«(2 => 1, 3 => 1, 3 => 2, 4 => 2)␤»
12:47 moritz_ rakudo: say (2, 3, 3, 4 Z=> (1, 2 Xxx 2)).perl
12:47 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«(2 => 1, 3 => 1, 3 => 2, 4 => 2)␤»
12:47 pmichaud rakudo:  say (<a a b b c c d d> Z=> ((1,2) Xxx 2).perl
12:47 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
12:47 pmichaud rakudo:  say (<a a b b c c d d> Z=> ((1,2) Xxx 2)).perl
12:47 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«("a" => 1, "a" => 1, "b" => 2, "b" => 2)␤»
12:47 moritz_ Xxx is a bit shorter than >>xx>> :-)
12:48 pmichaud yes, but it didn't give the correct results
12:48 moritz_ (and new too)
12:48 pmichaud I lost my c's and d's
12:48 moritz_ try Xxx 4
12:48 pmichaud rakudo:  say (<a a b b c c d d> Z=> ((1,2) Xxx 4)).perl
12:48 nymacro pmichaud, actually; does your code handle ace as also a value of 1?
12:48 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«("a" => 1, "a" => 1, "b" => 1, "b" => 1, "c" => 2, "c" => 2, "d" => 2, "d" => 2)␤»
12:48 nymacro it doesn't seem to
12:49 masak just wait until the social media find out that Perl 6 has an Xxx operator!
12:49 pmichaud nymacro: no, but it can easily handle ace as 1 by changing the "11" to "11|1"
12:49 moritz_ masak: :-)
12:49 nymacro :)
12:49 pmichaud rakudo:  say (<a a b b c c d d> Z=> ((1,2,3,4) Xxx 2)).perl
12:49 masak pmichaud: that way lies only grief, if you ask me.
12:49 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«(timeout)("a" => 1, "a" => 1, "b" => 2, "b" => 2, "c" => 3, "c" => 3, "d" => 4, "d" => 4)␤»
12:49 masak (using junctions that way)
12:50 nymacro I won't use this stuff though; I'm not quite sure what >>xx>> does :)
12:50 pmichaud masak: I agree -- I was just following what nymacro already had for value of ace
12:50 masak nod
12:50 pmichaud it's fine as long as you're only asking for possible point totals
12:50 masak guess so.
12:51 pmichaud but one oes get into trouble with things like    if $points > 21 { ... }
12:51 plainhao joined #perl6
12:51 moritz_ note that this is a good example of why junctions shouldn't be abused as sets
12:51 moritz_ right
12:51 pmichaud *does
12:51 moritz_ it wants to be all($points) > 21
12:52 moritz_ but wins if any($points) == 21
12:52 moritz_ s:firstline/wants/wants to abort/
12:53 pmichaud and I'm not sure the all() junction works out, anyway
12:53 pmichaud rakudo:   say all(13|24) > 21;
12:53 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«all(any(Bool::False, Bool::True))␤»
12:53 moritz_ pmichaud: it would need to be a pure all() junction
12:54 moritz_ which is why it's a problem :-)
12:54 moritz_ and $points should really be a set or list, not a junction
12:54 pmichaud right.
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12:57 nymacro My code seems to break if I try to change face cards to single letters
12:57 nymacro as to why; I'm confused
13:00 nymacro my @r=2..10,<ja qu ki ac>;my %v=ja=>10,qu=>10,ki=>10,ac=>1|11; workds
13:00 nymacro but my @r=2..10,<j q k a>;my %v=j=>10,q=>10,k=>10,a=>1|11; does not.
13:00 pmichaud maybe a space after the 'q'
13:00 pmichaud so it doesn't think it's a q() construct.
13:00 nymacro oh
13:01 nymacro nope
13:01 nymacro still does not work
13:01 pmichaud maybe quotes around the q
13:01 nymacro ahh, works now :)
13:02 nymacro I'll need to look up the exact syntax of q
13:02 pmichaud quotes shouldn't be needed there... but rakudo's predictor isn't as good as STD's.
13:02 moritz_ std: q=> 3
13:02 p6eval std : OUTPUT«ok 00:01 115m␤»
13:02 moritz_ rakudo: q=> 3
13:02 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb:  ( no output )
13:02 moritz_ rakudo: say (q=> 3).perl
13:02 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«"q" => 3␤»
13:03 moritz_ rakudo: say (q => 3).perl
13:03 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«"q" => 3␤»
13:03 moritz_ rakudo: say (q=>3).perl
13:03 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«"q" => 3␤»
13:03 nymacro rakudo: say (a=>1,q=>3).perl;
13:03 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«("a" => 1, "q" => 3)␤»
13:03 * moritz_ confused
13:03 pmichaud rakudo:  say (j=>10,q=>10,k=>10).perl;
13:03 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«("j" => 10, Bool::False)␤»
13:03 moritz_ oh
13:04 moritz_ only if another = is present
13:04 * moritz_ submits rakudobug
13:04 masak indeed. moritz_++
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13:05 pmichaud std:  say (j=>10,q=>10,k=>10).perl
13:05 p6eval std : OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
13:05 pmichaud well, that's still valid syntax I guess -- would need to see the parse
13:05 pmichaud std:  say (j=>10,q=>10,k==10).perl
13:05 p6eval std : OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤   'k' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:02 118m␤»
13:06 pmichaud right, looks fine to me.
13:07 nymacro just a precedence thing?
13:07 pmichaud mainly, yes.
13:07 pmichaud =>  is supposed to autoquote its lhs... but rakudo doesn't always get that right
13:07 * moritz_ thinks it's more about LTM than precedence
13:08 hercynium left #perl6
13:09 moritz_ submitted as [perl #78096]
13:09 nymacro tadzik, got to 455 characters
13:09 nymacro moritz_, at least something productive has come of this endeavour :)
13:09 tadzik oh nice
13:09 nymacro tadzik, but this is changin queen to q etc.
13:09 ggoebel left #perl6
13:10 tadzik ah
13:11 nymacro so yours is probably still superior; albeit buggy
13:13 moritz_ .oO( it's easy to give the wrong answer in O(1), and with few characters)
13:13 perlygatekeeper joined #perl6
13:14 pmichaud rakudo:  my @deck = comb('23456789TJQKA') X~ comb('CDHS');  say @deck.perl;
13:14 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &comb␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/0xksiKgSWu␤»
13:15 masak oh, you wanted the *correct* answer! what are you, some kind of purist? :)
13:15 pmichaud oh
13:15 pmichaud rakudo:  my @deck = '23456789TJQKA'.comb X~ 'CDHS'.comb;  say @deck.perl;
13:15 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«["2C", "2D", "2H", "2S", "3C", "3D", "3H", "3S", "4C", "4D", "4H", "4S", "5C", "5D", "5H", "5S", "6C", "6D", "6H", "6S", "7C", "7D", "7H", "7S", "8C", "8D", "8H", "8S", "9C", "9D", "9H", "9S", "TC", "TD", "TH", "TS", "JC", "JD", "JH", "JS", "QC", "QD", "QH", "QS", "KC", "KD",
13:15 p6eval .."KH",…
13:16 pmichaud &comb appears to be missing, for any masak++ that wants to file another rakudobug  :-)
13:16 * masak files another rakudobug
13:17 pmichaud our List multi comb ( Regex $matcher, Str $input, Int $limit = Inf )
13:17 pmichaud (from S32-str)
13:17 redicaps joined #perl6
13:17 Patterner left #perl6
13:17 masak by the way, I relish the thought of getting karma from being referred to as a concept. :)
13:18 redicaps left #perl6
13:18 pmichaud I think of it more as a type object, or placeholder :-)
13:18 masak $^masak
13:18 pmichaud right, but it needs the ++ sigil :)
13:18 masak or Musak :P
13:19 Psyche^ joined #perl6
13:19 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
13:19 moritz_ you know that sigils go up front?
13:19 moritz_ so it's a ++masak :-)
13:19 icwiener joined #perl6
13:19 pmichaud http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzak   # :-)
13:19 * masak seems to spend a surprising amount of time on brand awareness lately
13:19 masak not sure where this'll lead...
13:20 tadzik nymacro: I still don't know what's broken :)
13:21 pmichaud afk for a short while
13:21 nymacro :)
13:21 tadzik Maybe I'll take your new code and golf it, if it works
13:21 tadzik ah, whatever :)
13:21 tadzik golfed: ah, * :)
13:22 TiMBuS rakudo: my @deck = 2..9,<T J Q K A> X~ <C D H S>;  say @deck.perl;
13:22 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«["2C", "2D", "2H", "2S", "3C", "3D", "3H", "3S", "4C", "4D", "4H", "4S", "5C", "5D", "5H", "5S", "6C", "6D", "6H", "6S", "7C", "7D", "7H", "7S", "8C", "8D", "8H", "8S", "9C", "9D", "9H", "9S", "TC", "TD", "TH", "TS", "JC", "JD", "JH", "JS", "QC", "QD", "QH", "QS", "KC", "KD",
13:22 p6eval .."KH",…
13:22 tadzik rakudo: say "ah, {*.WHAT}
13:22 nymacro tadzik, http://git.nymacro.com/?p=h.git;a=​blob_plain;f=bjgolfmin.p6;hb=HEAD
13:22 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say \"ah, {"␤»
13:22 tadzik rakudo: say "ah, {*.WHAT}"
13:22 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«ah, Whatever()␤»
13:22 masak :)
13:23 masak rakudo: say "ah, ", *.WHAT.perl.lc, '!"
13:23 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say \"ah, \""␤»
13:23 masak erg
13:23 masak rakudo: say "ah, ", *.WHAT.perl.lc, '!'
13:23 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«ah, whatever!␤»
13:26 pmichaud rakudo:  say (*).elems;   # curious
13:26 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«_block124␤»
13:26 pmichaud I didn't expect _that_.
13:27 pmichaud seems to me that * in parens shouldn't curry.
13:27 jnthn rakudo: say *.elems
13:27 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«_block124␤»
13:27 pmichaud I do expect *.elems to curry, yes.
13:28 jnthn pmichaud: I suspect it does curry for the same reason * * (* - *) curries
13:28 pmichaud jnthn: that's actually different
13:28 jnthn (that is, in the implementation)
13:28 jnthn (not in the spec)
13:28 pmichaud (* - *) is a WhateverCode
13:28 pmichaud not the same as (*)
13:28 jnthn I agree, it's just from what I remember of the impl I could see how the two may just get confused.
13:29 pmichaud I suspect it's an issue with things being promoted out of the circumfix:<( )>
13:29 jnthn Right.
13:29 pmichaud rakudo:  my $x = *;   say $x.elems;  # what I was really interested in
13:30 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«1␤»
13:30 jnthn :-)
13:30 pmichaud following the ",*" discussion, I'm wondering if that should be Inf
13:30 jnthn At least the = doesn't curry ;-)
13:30 pmichaud and:   my $x = *;  say $x[1000].WHAT;   # should this also produce a Whatever?
13:31 moritz_ pmichaud: I'd expect ,Inf to append a single Inf numeric literal
13:31 moritz_ whereas * is more magic
13:31 pmichaud moritz_: that's not what I meant
13:31 pmichaud I'm wondering if   Whatever.elems  should return Inf instead of 1
13:31 moritz_ ah
13:32 * moritz_ has no idea
13:32 pmichaud i.e.,  if the term "*" treated like a list actually acts like  "Whatever xx Inf"
13:32 pmichaud especially since we don't have an easy way to write  * xx Inf    :-P
13:33 pmichaud best we can do is:   my $x = *;  $x xx Inf
13:33 bluescreen left #perl6
13:33 pmichaud (unless we fix the parens issue, which I'm not sure is spec)
13:34 masak haven't seen anything about that.
13:34 masak shouldn't parens mostly be semantically transparent?
13:34 pmichaud yes, but *.xyz   is a syntactic construct
13:34 masak fair enuf.
13:35 moritz_ cosimo: http://my.opera.com/cstrep/blog/2​010/09/24/survival-guide-to-utf-8 accidentally turns some parens into a smile (search for 'use Encode')
13:39 tadzik nymacro: 444 and works :)
13:39 nymacro nice :)
13:39 * masak tries to avoid that kind of automatic substitution in blog post
13:39 masak don't like it in Word-like programs either.
13:39 masak feels like the wrong kind of "intelligence".
13:39 tadzik even shorter if Winner and results is in one line
13:39 moritz_ masak: same here; it's always the first thing I switch off, if possible
13:40 ggoebel joined #perl6
13:43 daxim I really dislike the ahinea article, it rubs me all the wrong way
13:44 masak moritz_: one especially bad case of such substitution made a little icon of the ';' at the end of (autogenerated) HTML entities and any subsequent ')'. resulting in a broken entity and a winking smiley.
13:44 tadzik nymacro: http://gist.github.com/601011 441 and I'm out of ideas :)
13:45 nymacro nice
13:45 tadzik star today?
13:46 moritz_ tadzik: my @d = map { ... }, ...; @d.=pick(*)
13:46 moritz_ tadzik: can be condensed to my @d = map(....).pick(*)
13:46 tadzik right
13:46 moritz_ saves 2 strokes :-)
13:47 tadzik 438 here
13:47 tadzik so even 3 :)
13:47 moritz_ $_~' is over 21'  could be "$_ is over 21"
13:47 moritz_ 1 saved
13:48 tadzik :)
13:48 moritz_ .&b  is shorter than b($_)
13:48 tadzik oh, I didn't know that one :)
13:49 moritz_ rakudo: sub u($x) { uc $x }; for <a b c> { .&u.say }
13:49 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«A␤B␤C␤»
13:49 gottreu is this for rosetta code, or are we just practicing our putts?
13:49 tadzik I just got another one
13:49 tadzik say b($_); say ~$_ → say b($_),"\n$_";
13:49 pmichaud rakudo:  for <a b c> { .uc.say }
13:49 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«A␤B␤C␤»
13:49 pmichaud still shorter -- don't need the u()  :-P
13:50 * moritz_ slaps pmichaud, just a little bit
13:50 tadzik so 424
13:51 tadzik how does .&b work?
13:51 tadzik it's an idiom for b($_) specifically?
13:52 moritz_ it's actually $_.$coderef
13:52 jnthn oh wow, neat idiom :-)
13:52 jnthn That's...disgusting. I love it. :-)
13:53 moritz_ and exploits that methods are really just subs with invocant as first parameter
13:53 moritz_ but the invocant isn't really special
13:55 pmichaud jnthn: TimToady had the same reaction, iirc :)
13:55 tadzik left #perl6
13:56 pmichaud but it does mean that where we had once wanted "fallback methods" we don't really need them.
13:56 pmichaud for example,  sub prime($x) { ... };    if  $y.&prime { ... }
13:57 masak exactly.
13:57 pmichaud or, more likely:    sub prime($x) { ... };   .say if .&prime for @list;   # or something like that
13:57 masak since I became aware of that idiom, I've been using it all over.
13:58 masak it's a real freedom to be able to method-ize subs like that.
13:58 kaare_ left #perl6
13:59 moritz_ pmichaud: I think the real reason for fallback methods were non-lifted, overloaded operators
14:03 pmichaud moritz_: .prime was the poster candidate for fallback methods.
14:04 masak someone on reddit suggests that we put http://gil.di.uminho.pt/use​rs/smash/rakudo-bench.html on the rakudo.org status page.
14:04 pmichaud do we have a way of generating those and keeping them up to date?
14:05 pmichaud if no, then I say don't do it until we do :)
14:05 masak good point.
14:05 moritz_ speaking of the status page, we should remove that spectest graph
14:07 pmichaud +1
14:08 moritz_ pmichaud: it seems the last version of R* checked out a copy of the spectets via svn
14:08 moritz_ it would be great to avoid that in this release
14:09 pmichaud I can bundle a copy of the tests, like we do for the compiler distribution.
14:09 moritz_ +1
14:10 masak +1
14:10 PerlJam good morning #perl6
14:10 mavrc left #perl6
14:10 moritz_ morning' 6Jam
14:11 PerlJam anything new or exciting happen while I haven't been paying too close attention the last week or so?
14:11 PerlJam oh!  When's the R* release?
14:12 moritz_ today
14:12 * jnthn decommutes
14:12 PerlJam ah
14:12 moritz_ rakudo: .so.say for 0, 1
14:13 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤Bool::True␤»
14:13 masak PerlJam: 'series operator' is now called 'sequence operator'
14:13 moritz_ warn 1 # note the line number
14:13 moritz_ rakudo: warn 1 # note the line number
14:13 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«1  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/1bpRq0Vi2f␤»
14:13 moritz_ (amd file name)
14:14 moritz_ rakudo: 1 + Any # a non-setting line number
14:14 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in numeric context  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/CRq42b2jaH␤»
14:14 masak PerlJam: also, we're all crazy about the new idiom $some-obj.&some-sub()
14:14 PerlJam masak: good to note.  I'll probably continue to mistakenly say "series op" for a while though  :)
14:15 masak PerlJam: oh, me too.
14:15 PerlJam masak: you could have stopped at "we're all crazy"  ;-)
14:15 masak PerlJam: I've recently been looking at this old blog post, where I quote you saying to me "clearly, you're insane" :P http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/th​e-taming-of-the-newbie-a-comedy-on-irc
14:16 masak (I did deserve it, that time)
14:16 mavrc joined #perl6
14:19 miso_soup joined #perl6
14:19 PerlJam We all have some measure of insanity otherwise we wouldn't believe in Perl 6.  The trick is to foster the "good insanity" (aka genius) while eschewing the "bad insanity"
14:20 nymacro this is true; I don't know anyone worth knowing who isn't at least slightly insane
14:22 masak lately I haven't been able to connect the gears turning in my brain to actual changes in my existing Perl 6 code. may or may not be related to actually getting more $WORK done lately.
14:22 moritz_ straw poll: who has met a normal person?
14:25 PerlJam normal to what surface? :)
14:26 mkramer joined #perl6
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14:29 patspam joined #perl6
14:29 masak PerlJam: *groan*
14:29 HarryS joined #perl6
14:30 mathw normal by what standard?
14:31 moritz_ ISO-1337-1 :-)
14:33 wtw left #perl6
14:33 masak moritz_: I take your point fully, but I'm not sure "normal" is such an abstract, non-instantiable concept far enough outside of certain circles... say, geekdom, or academia.
14:33 gottreu DSM-IV-TR ?
14:34 patspam left #perl6
14:34 masak might be we're simply blessed with the relative absence of normal people 'round here :P
14:34 PerlJam depends.
14:35 moritz_ masak: hmm. My mother is a psychologist, and she is often asked "am I normal?". It made me think about possible answers
14:35 mavrc left #perl6
14:35 PerlJam If we start with the premise that TimToady it normal ... it's the rest of the world that's insane.
14:35 PerlJam s/it/is/
14:35 PerlJam oops,  s:2nd/it/is/ actually
14:35 masak moritz_: I agree that it's more of a fuzzy ideal. the question is more whether it's something a person consciously/unconsciously strives for or not.
14:36 masak Camelia "super cute". http://twitter.com/dcbaok/status/25789177100
14:36 mfollett joined #perl6
14:36 PerlJam squeak has a mascot?
14:37 fIorz left #perl6
14:37 masak PerlJam: http://www.squeak.org/
14:37 masak looks like a cat.
14:37 PerlJam yes, I'm looking at it
14:37 moritz_ I guess many people would answer "no" to the question whether they are "normal", and be shocked when asked if they are abnormal :-)
14:37 masak oh wait. it's a mouse!
14:37 PerlJam and it does look like a cat rather than a mouse to me too
14:37 masak (of course, duh)
14:38 florz joined #perl6
14:38 masak moritz_: every time I hear the word "abnormal", I think of Young Frankenstein... :)
14:39 moritz_ :-)
14:39 masak http://www.imdb.com/title/​tt0072431/quotes?qt0504329
14:42 masak whoa -- someone on github read ".pick and .roll" as ".rick and .roll" -- how did we ever miss that? :P
14:42 * moritz_ didn't, but doesn't particular care about that meme
14:43 mavrc joined #perl6
14:43 masak nod. I'm not sure I grok that meme, actually.
14:44 moritz_ it's something I only saw at xkcd, and occasionally parrotted by others
14:44 nymacro never gonna give you up...
14:46 * masak reads up using http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/rickroll
14:48 ggoebel joined #perl6
14:49 HarryS left #perl6
14:49 moritz_ somehow that still fails to fascinate me
14:51 nymacro yeah, it was never truly funny
14:53 alext_ left #perl6
14:53 masak watch out for the False Memes in our midst.
14:56 moritz_ wolf meme in sheep's skin?
14:56 daxim left #perl6
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14:59 masak rakudo: sub wolf { say "om nom nom" }; sub sheep { say "baah!"; callsame }; &wolf.wrap(&sheep); wolf()
15:00 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«baah!␤om nom nom␤»
15:01 masak rakudo: sub wolf { say "om nom nom" }; sub sheep { say "baah!"; callsame }; say (&wolf.wrap(&sheep)).WHAT
15:01 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
15:01 masak Int? o.O
15:01 masak rakudo: sub wolf { say "om nom nom" }; sub sheep { say "baah!"; callsame }; say (&wolf.wrap(&sheep))
15:01 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«2␤»
15:01 * masak consults ze spec
15:01 moritz_ isn't it callnext() ?
15:02 masak there's no callnext
15:02 moritz_ hm
15:02 moritz_ nextsame
15:02 masak there's callsame, nextsame, callwith and nextwith
15:02 masak if it's last, it doesn't really matter, does it?
15:02 masak except maybe in how the call stack looks along the way.
15:02 TimToady and lastcall
15:03 daxim joined #perl6
15:03 moritz_ ... to brooklyn?
15:03 TimToady rakudo: say 42.so
15:03 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
15:03 TimToady rakudo: say 42.not
15:03 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«Method 'not' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/M6CA84i5kB␤»
15:04 * TimToady wanted .=not for a rosettacode...
15:04 jferrero left #perl6
15:04 masak S06:2685 says "The call to C<.wrap> returns a unique handle that has a C<restore> method that will undo the wrapping"
15:04 colomon .=not ?
15:04 masak hence, it cannot be an Int.
15:04 * masak submits rakudobug
15:04 moritz_ TimToady: patching it in right now... it'll just take hours to complete the spectest run :-)
15:05 masak don't we have a TODO RT ticket for .not already?
15:05 TimToady oh, well, then, we can't fix it yet
15:05 colomon ah, .not
15:05 moritz_ masak: I think we had one, and I closed it over-eagerly
15:05 masak huh.
15:05 moritz_ masak: it covered .so and .not, and I implemented .so
15:05 masak huh.
15:06 * colomon is still very slow on the uptake this morning
15:06 masak doesn't sound like you, moritz_.
15:06 TimToady the .not was .so.so
15:06 masak :)
15:06 moritz_ masak: if you knew me a bit better in real life, you wouldn't say that :-)
15:07 moritz_ ss/real life/meatspace/ # #perl6 is real too
15:07 masak was just going to point that out. :)
15:07 TimToady s/meatspace/carnisphere/
15:07 moritz_ :-)
15:07 masak moritz_: the only thing I'm surprised at when we meet is that you have a German accent. you don't have that on IRC :)
15:07 TimToady or may "somasphere" would be less root-mixy
15:08 * masak likes "somasphere"
15:08 masak very Huxley.
15:08 moritz_ TimToady: "somasphere" makes me think of the drug... right
15:08 moritz_ masak: :-)
15:08 moritz_ masak: next time I'll try harder to dig out my scottish accent :-)
15:08 masak och aye!
15:10 moritz_ just a wee bit of accent with rolled rrrrs, and mis-pronounced vowels
15:11 moritz_ t/spec/S02-builtin_data_types/instants-and-durations.t sometimes fails for me
15:13 dalek rakudo: bd836a4 | moritz++ | src/ (2 files):
15:13 dalek rakudo: give TimToday++ his Mu.not
15:13 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b​d836a4a63bd51f52c1ebdfeb12ea9dd0925140c
15:13 miso_soup left #perl6
15:17 jferrero joined #perl6
15:18 mfollett Which synopsis is .so covered in?
15:18 moritz_ probably S02
15:18 moritz_ or S32/$something
15:20 ruoso joined #perl6
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15:21 colomon moritz_: why the grammar change for .not?
15:21 olgagirl left #perl6
15:21 mfollett moritz_: thanks
15:21 moritz_ colomon: ho, I didn't mean to commit that. Thanks for telling me
15:22 moritz_ moritz-- # git commit -a  without checking git diff first
15:22 colomon review++
15:22 masak colomon++
15:24 moritz_ as you might guess, I have experimented with parsing ss///
15:24 moritz_ parsing it is easy; doing something with it in a non-convoluted manner is not
15:25 dalek rakudo: 6241883 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
15:25 dalek rakudo: Revert accidental grammar change from bd836a4a
15:25 dalek rakudo:
15:25 dalek rakudo: moritz--, and colomon++ for noticing
15:25 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6​2418835ec1a67095bdc0253f7a27c53f2244a49
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15:43 masak here's a thing I didn't know before today about RSS and Atom feeds: most blogs don't keep a full history around in them, but only the last 10 or 20 entries.
15:43 masak while the remark might *sound* off-topic, recall that I'm currently writing a static blog generator in Perl 6. :P
15:45 moritz_ btw there's a concepttual problem with RSS, and a good reason to prefer Atom
15:45 moritz_ it's that RSS has no way to declare the mime type of the content
15:45 masak good news: I'm going with Atom already.
15:45 moritz_ so the client has to guess if it's HTML or text
15:45 moritz_ good
15:45 masak I have heard something similar at some point.
15:46 masak the only thing that seems to keep RSS in business is inertia and cargo-culting.
15:46 * moritz_ is guilty of both
15:46 LionMadeOfLions left #perl6
15:47 moritz_ decommute&
15:47 szbalint masak++ # I don't want to rant about how RSS is broken and why, but it annoys me greatly.
15:47 masak no need to rant, I think. just use Atom.
15:48 szbalint moritz_: I ran into the mime type issue when refactoring the IronMan feed.
15:50 synth left #perl6
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15:57 jnthn masak: ooc, is there still an unwrap method spec'd?
15:57 justatheory joined #perl6
15:57 daxim Atom is able to older entries in a seperate feed, donchaknow
15:57 * jnthn doesn't recall restore method on handles at all from when he last worked on wrap stuff, which was, granted, a year or so ago.
15:57 masak jnthn: don't know. but (as I wrote in the RT ticket), there's a .restore method spec'd on the handle returned from .wrap
15:58 masak jnthn: which IMO makes more sense than a generic .unwrap method
15:58 jnthn Well, the .unwrap method took the handle.
15:58 * masak checks the spec
15:58 jnthn But yeah, if you have the handle it probably does make some more sense.
15:58 daxim RFC 5005
15:58 jnthn Maybe a spec twiddle. :-)
15:58 daxim this is for you, moritz_
15:59 masak jnthn: there's only a fossil left in S32/Callable
15:59 masak I say ditch .unwrap completely, and let the user keep the handle if she wants to unwrap later.
16:00 mkramer left #perl6
16:00 jnthn wfm
16:00 jnthn Having both feels a bit surplus to requirements.
16:01 masak also, the greater safety of handles and .restore kinda makes .unwrap feel like a reckless alternative.
16:02 masak .unwrap is a steamroller to .restore's origami :)
16:02 risou joined #perl6
16:04 jnthn masak: I don't think there was ever a handleless .unwrap that assumed "just do the last wrapper" but maybe there was. :-)
16:04 jnthn If there was, it's certainliy the way to fragility though.
16:05 masak oh, ok. maybe I'm imagining that, then.
16:05 drbean left #perl6
16:05 masak anyway, .restore seems sufficient.
16:06 PerlJam What about having an .unwrap with .restore's semantics (i.e., rename .restore to .unwrap)?
16:06 PerlJam the wrap/unwrap dichotomy seems better than wrap/restore to me
16:07 masak wfm
16:07 mavrc left #perl6
16:07 masak though the natural objection would probably be that it's not the handle that's being .unrap'd
16:07 masak s/unrap/unwrap/
16:07 PerlJam true
16:09 PerlJam what type is the handle?
16:09 drbean joined #perl6
16:10 masak Int, apparently :P
16:10 PerlJam and what else can you do with a handle besides .restore/
16:10 PerlJam ?
16:11 masak no idea.
16:11 masak nothing comes to mind.
16:12 masak .unrestore, perhaps... :)
16:12 masak or should that be, .rewrap?
16:12 masak s/,//
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16:22 masak see you at #phasers. nom &
16:22 masak left #perl6
16:30 PerlJam If the do property of Routines was an array where only the "top" item was actually executed, then we wouldn't need .wrap or .restore and I think callsame, callwith, nextsame, nextwith would just work
16:30 PerlJam er ... that's not right.
16:31 PerlJam but something like that could be made to work perhaps
16:33 moritz_ then Routine.wrap and .unwrap would just delegate to .shift and .unshift on the array
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16:41 jnthn PerlJam: I did in 6model play with exactly that.
16:41 jnthn Every invokable thingy had a think to invoke + a candidate list.
16:41 jnthn *thing
16:42 jnthn Not sure if it'll stick or not.
16:42 jnthn (Quite possibly not, but it's an interesting idea to play with.)
16:42 sjohnson yo jnthn how goes it today
16:42 jnthn sjohnson: I'm a little sleepy but otherwise fine. :-)
16:42 jnthn You?
16:43 sjohnson good just obsessing about crpytography
16:43 sjohnson my new obsession
16:43 sjohnson :)
16:43 TimToady rakudo: False || die "oops"  # can't believe this still doesn't short circuit...
16:43 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«oops␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/p2LvF9It1g␤»
16:45 TimToady er...
16:45 TimToady rakudo: True || die "oops"
16:45 jnthn wtf
16:45 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb:  ( no output )
16:45 moritz_ :-)
16:45 TimToady nevermind
16:45 jnthn :-)
16:45 moritz_ I think it's // that doesn't short circuit
16:45 * TimToady is a space case this morning
16:45 * jnthn hands TimToady++ another cup of coffee
16:45 moritz_ rakudo: 1 // say("foohoo")
16:45 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb:  ( no output )
16:45 jnthn I'm pretty sure // does
16:45 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = 1; $x  //= say("foohoo")
16:45 jnthn It's the //= form that I think we have bovva with.
16:46 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«foohoo␤»
16:46 moritz_ right
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16:53 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = hash <Jan Feb Mar> Z 1..12; say $x.perl
16:53 p6eval rakudo 0bf6cb: OUTPUT«{"Jan" => 1, "Feb" => 2, "Mar" => 3}␤»
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17:14 dalek sprixel: f40e10c | diakopter++ | sprixel/src/compiler/ (2 files):
17:14 dalek sprixel: bit of cleanup
17:14 dalek sprixel: review: http://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit​/f40e10cfef7c421f76f14ed9c43a6116337f4d15
17:17 ash_ jnthn: do you why you'd get a P6Invocation on accident? or what to do with a P6Invocation?
17:17 ash_ > class A { method b { 1 } }; A.can('b');
17:17 ash_ ===SORRY!===
17:17 ash_ get_string() not implemented in class 'P6Invocation'
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17:19 jnthn ash_: Generally, invoke it or iterate with it.
17:19 jnthn I'm not sure that A.can('b') can return the method.
17:19 jnthn Though it probably wants to return something that can invoke the first candidate in the result set.
17:19 ash_ should that throw an error or something then?
17:19 jnthn Well, it shouldn't do whatever it's doing there...
17:20 moritz_ jnthn: why can't it return the same object that .^methods.grep($some_test) would return?
17:20 jnthn That'd return a list.
17:20 jnthn However, it'd probably not give you any deferal semantics.
17:20 ash_ rakudo: class A { method b { 1 } }; say A.^methods.grep: { $_ eq 'b' }
17:20 moritz_ then slap a .[0] on
17:21 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«b␤»
17:21 moritz_ rakudo: class A { method b { 1 } }; say A.^methods.grep('b').[0].WHAT
17:21 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«Method()␤»
17:21 jnthn moritz_: That is tempting.
17:21 jnthn But it may mean folks don't get deferal.
17:22 moritz_ deferal?
17:22 jnthn nextsame and friends.
17:22 jnthn They rely on there being a dispatcher providing the candidate list.
17:22 moritz_ hm, right
17:22 jnthn Just grepping out a bunch of method objects and then invoking the first one does not make the rest of them the candidate list.
17:23 jnthn In fact, doing a sub-ish invocation of a method object is probably never going to give you working deferal.
17:23 moritz_ right
17:23 jnthn Because it totally bypasses running the method dispatcher.
17:23 ash_ does that mean .^methods is doing something wrong too? or that .can needs to be smarter?
17:23 jnthn ash_: No, .^methods is fine
17:23 jnthn Well, we could choose that .can ain't all that smart either.
17:24 jnthn "If you want to do a method dispatch, well, do one dammit."
17:24 moritz_ more to the point, I'd love to .can to return something that can do deferal, and internally wrap the candidate list
17:24 jnthn Well, yeah
17:24 jnthn P6invocation is basically a curried method dispatchrer.
17:24 moritz_ it's not always that easy
17:24 ash_ well
17:24 ash_ also
17:24 ash_ rakudo: say "Str".can('split')
17:24 ash_ works
17:24 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«split␤»
17:24 jnthn e.g. invoking it is not *really* invoking the first thing in the list.
17:25 jnthn It's invoking a method dispatcher, which in turn runs the first thing in the list.
17:25 ash_ it only gives the P6Invocation when you use a class you make (i think)
17:25 jnthn Oh, I know what's going on...
17:25 jnthn It provides .Str but probably not a get_string v-table.
17:25 ash_ rakudo: my $a = "Str".can('say'); $a.()
17:25 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1␤  in 'Mu::say' at line 1228:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/jRv4l9olVw␤»
17:26 jnthn ash_: Needs an invocant passing still.
17:26 moritz_ right; lonely .say misses its invcant!
17:26 ash_ rakudo: my $a = "Str".can('say'); $a.assuming("Str"); $a.();
17:26 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1␤  in 'Mu::say' at line 1228:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/iBT46ukbj2␤»
17:26 diakopter rakudo: my $a = "Str".can('say'); $a.($a)
17:26 ash_ hmmm
17:26 jnthn .oO( I wonder if we're actually going to need a v-table of curried dispatchers... )
17:26 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«say␤»
17:27 jnthn All this curry talk is making me hungry.
17:27 dalek sprixel: cf36d17 | diakopter++ | sprixel/src/compiler/ (2 files):
17:27 dalek sprixel: rename temporarily; stupid TortoiseGit (or git) not handling Windows case-insensitive filenames.
17:27 dalek sprixel: review: http://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit​/cf36d176744eda8b87abd4f13dc48c14b580f4ee
17:27 dalek sprixel: ae54de5 | diakopter++ | sprixel/src/compiler/Env (2 files):
17:27 dalek sprixel: rename it back
17:27 dalek sprixel: review: http://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit​/ae54de5977386bf0d054061d4f8ac3cde383b7e4
17:27 ash_ lol
17:28 jnthn diakopter: Heh, glad it wasn't just me who coudln't find a better way... :-)
17:28 ash_ curry is great, i like thai green curry, but there aren't any restaurants near by with it :-(
17:28 jnthn Aww.
17:28 diakopter jnthn: you use TortoiseGit?
17:28 jnthn diakopter: No, command line git
17:28 diakopter oh
17:28 jnthn diakopter: But when faced with the same problem, I ended up doing the same.
17:29 jnthn e.g. I think it's an underlying git on Windows thing rather than Tortoise's fault.
17:29 diakopter yeah
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17:32 ash_ jnthn: so you know why some methods don't work with .can? just curios, i filed a bug report for it too
17:32 ash_ i tried tracking it down, but it was a bit beyond me
17:34 jnthn Well, the error you saw is probably that get_string ain't implemented in P6invocation
17:34 jnthn (in src/pmc/
17:34 jnthn The deeper problem is that it's a PMC rather than a real Perl 6 object.
17:35 jnthn It's harder to do too much about at the moment.
17:35 ash_ rakudo: say 'foo'.can('split'); # works though, is that not also a P6Invocation?
17:35 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«split␤»
17:35 ash_ i guess my confusion is why do some class methods work and other not?
17:38 moritz_ maybe it's related to classes defined in PIR vs. Perl 6?
17:38 moritz_ rakudo: say Cool.new.can('Num')
17:38 p6eval rakudo 624188:  ( no output )
17:39 moritz_ rakudo: say Cool.can('Num')
17:39 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«Num␤»
17:39 moritz_ or type object vs. instance?
17:39 moritz_ rakudo: class A { method b() { } }; say A.new.can('b')
17:39 p6eval rakudo 624188:  ( no output )
17:39 ash_ rakudo: class A { method b { 1 } }; say A.new.can('b');
17:39 p6eval rakudo 624188:  ( no output )
17:39 ash_ lol
17:39 ash_ oops
17:40 ash_ rakudo: class A { method b { 1 } }; my $a = A.new; say $a.can('b').($a);
17:40 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«1␤»
17:40 ash_ rakudo: class A { method b { 1 } }; my $a = A.new; say $a.can('b')
17:40 p6eval rakudo 624188:  ( no output )
17:40 ash_ hmm
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18:07 sorear good * #perl6!
18:08 colomon o/
18:08 moritz_
18:08 colomon moritz_: what's that on your head?
18:09 moritz_ colomon: bear ears :-)
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18:33 dalek sprixel: 8b0285b | diakopter++ | sprixel/ (3 files):
18:33 dalek sprixel: delete old Messages.Designer.cs
18:33 dalek sprixel: review: http://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit​/8b0285b7deecd687adc1ec33f100f03837f74f22
18:33 dalek sprixel: e6cc675 | diakopter++ | sprixel/codegen/RunSharp/Prop​erties/Messages.Designer.cs:
18:33 dalek sprixel: re-add Messages.Designer.cs
18:33 dalek sprixel: review: http://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit​/e6cc67570059a0df13b3f569173edfa5149cefaf
18:33 dalek sprixel: 4bf7cb2 | diakopter++ | sprixel/sprixel.csproj:
18:33 dalek sprixel: fixup .csproj
18:33 dalek sprixel: review: http://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit​/4bf7cb214fd0f6111709a491c8dadb5401f039f2
18:33 sorear \o/ test.pl runs to completeion
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18:34 mberends diakopter: nice to see you're playing with Sprixel again :)
18:34 mberends jnthn: halp pleas
18:34 sorear hi mberends!
18:34 mberends hi sorear! you're very busy too!
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18:44 rindolf Hi all. Does anyone have any comments about http://perl-begin.org/learn/perl6/ ?
18:46 masak left #perl6
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18:46 tadzik I'd sneak some "Perl 6 is not Perl 5" somewhere in the last part
18:47 flussence s/\.\././ ?
18:47 masak joined #perl6
18:47 tadzik also, perl6.org/documentation has now pretty nice content, and a bit friendlier to, so it's a nice place to link to
18:47 masak left #perl6
18:47 flussence (two dots at the end of a sentence sticks out to me like a sore thumb, I've never understood why)
18:48 flussence apart from that, it looks well-written
18:50 diakopter rakudo: sub a(Int, Str; Int) { };
18:51 rindolf flussence: where do you see that?
18:51 diakopter moritz_: ^^ :)
18:51 flussence rindolf: middle of the second-to-last section thing
18:51 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
18:52 flussence ...did someone raise the timeout on p6eval recently? that one took a while.
18:52 * diakopter does not know
18:52 rindolf flussence: oh, that's due to the <q> tag.
18:52 rindolf flussence: let me get rid of it.
18:54 flussence Ah, that looks more sense-making now.
18:56 jnthn mberends: oh hai
18:56 jnthn How can I halp?
18:57 tadzik Star today?
18:57 tadzik (tonight?)
18:57 rindolf flussence: fixed.
18:57 jnthn #phasers in a few mins.
18:58 moritz_ rindolf: s/displace/replace/ maybe?
18:58 masak joined #perl6
18:58 rindolf moritz_: why?
18:58 rindolf moritz_: displace as in succeed
18:59 rindolf moritz_: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/displace - see meaning #2.
18:59 moritz_ rindolf: ah, for me as a physicist I mostly know "displace" as "spatially move"
19:00 moritz_ rindolf: having read about it, I agree it's ok
19:00 rindolf moritz_: ok.
19:01 ash_ joined #perl6
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19:02 pmichaud Star tonight
19:02 justatheory joined #perl6
19:02 flussence yay!
19:03 pmichaud afk for about 30 mins
19:03 moritz_ #phasers now!
19:04 zby_home_ left #perl6
19:06 stkowski left #perl6
19:06 masak now now now
19:09 moritz_ .say for now, now now
19:09 moritz_ rakudo: .say for now, now, now
19:09 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«Instant:2010-09-28T18:46:23.6034​17Z␤Instant:2010-09-28T18:46:23.855916Z​␤Instant:2010-09-28T18:46:23.987443Z␤»
19:10 masak a reflection on the fleeting instants in our lives.
19:13 jnthn no no
19:13 jnthn now.^methods # this is reflection
19:13 jnthn ;-)
19:15 masak :P
19:18 sorear I wonder how dalek will cope with the 51 patch fast forward merge I just fed it.
19:18 * flussence braces for impact
19:19 dalek niecza/master: e7f4146 | sorear++ | src/Metamodel.pm:
19:19 dalek niecza/master: [mm] Reimplement the $/ hack
19:19 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e​7f41461abcf5cbc2b63880b14fc6aa486c98080
19:19 dalek niecza/master: 6878346 | sorear++ | src/ (3 files):
19:19 dalek niecza/master: [mm] Implement ltm data storing
19:19 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6​878346ec9e8f605647e6ace891a343081225570
19:19 dalek niecza/master: d75ad08 | sorear++ | / (6 files):
19:19 dalek niecza/master: [mm] Fix static $*foo cases, compiler driver
19:19 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/d​75ad08cfc65bec5e621c159563c4b95c74e8abb
19:20 mberends jnthn: in 6model/dotnet/compiler/DNST2CSharp.pm:114 there is a var whose data type I cannot figure out by code inspection.  Could you suggest where to look in a MethodCall object to figure out what its return type is?
19:20 plainhao left #perl6
19:20 jnthn mberends: looking
19:22 jnthn mberends: ew.
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19:23 jnthn mberends: Laziness bytes.
19:23 jnthn *bites
19:23 jnthn ...
19:23 jnthn mberends: What really should happen is that DNSTMethodCall gets a type atribute
19:23 jnthn mberends: And that this gets set when it's constructed.
19:24 * masak .oO( unless it nybbles... )
19:24 mberends jnthn: Many of the other var types went away without too much effort, but this one does byte :(
19:24 jaldhar left #perl6
19:24 jnthn mberends: Yes, it will I'm afraid.
19:24 jnthn mberends: Would it help you if I eliminated it in the dotnet version?
19:25 ash_ left #perl6
19:25 mberends jnthn: probably, but I don't have a suggestion for what you should write to do that.  I could eliminate a few more vars by backporting from the java code.
19:26 jnthn mberends: Oh, I suspect I can probably kill 'em off.
19:26 jnthn mberends: It was more a "I want progress NOW!" thing than a "long term we don't need to note what type we expect" thing.
19:27 jnthn mberends: That is, it's all stuff that I'd need to do when eventually generating IL rather than C#.
19:28 mberends jnthn: yes
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19:34 dalek 6model: 842f415 | jnthn++ | dotnet/compiler/DNST.pm:
19:34 dalek 6model: Add a type attribute to DNST::MethodCall.
19:34 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/8​42f415a6161722eb2c7a7b92a1309c255e000d3
19:34 mberends jnthn++
19:34 jnthn I didn't do anything yet. :P
19:35 * mberends just bought a Lego Mindstorms set on eBay :)
19:35 tadzik :D
19:35 masak mberends: \o/
19:36 jnthn mberends: Yay!
19:36 mberends masak: you're not allowed to play with it next week!
19:36 masak mberends: understood. :)
19:36 ash_ mberends: if you like robotics and want something a bit more involved look up the Ardunio, but if your not thats good too, i just like robotics :P
19:37 dalek niecza/master: e417169 | sorear++ | src/ (6 files):
19:37 dalek niecza/master: Remove a lot of bits of the old metamodel
19:37 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e​417169c3ac3bf28dc7884af0ed2144bbf4f42b3
19:37 mberends ash_: this one is for $kid, but dad will probably play too ;)
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19:43 * mberends scans eBay for Arduino stuff ;) ash_++
19:45 ggoebel left #perl6
19:45 ash_ mberends: if you don't see anything thing there, checkout sparkfun.com or http://www.ardunio.cc for them, they just came out with 2 new boards, and btw their software works on Windows, OS X, and linux, its one of the few microcontrollers that doesn't need a special programmer too, which is nice
19:45 ash_ http://www.arduino.cc/ it helps if you spell it right
19:45 masak ooh, this is interesting -- the "leave" semantics of the statement-ending 'when' construct in Perl 5 being defended: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1735497
19:48 mberends ash_: yes, I do like these things too. I think the 'Evil Genius' book was on sale in Maplin in the UK. No special programmer is a nice indeed.
19:50 mberends s/a nice/nice/
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19:50 ash_ the new ones are nifty, the have a special USB hub on them so you can program the arduino board to show up as any USB device, it can show up as a keyboard or mouse or an interface card. This also means no special drives for them anymore since its not using FTDI anymore, which is an added bonus of being able to plug it in just about anywhere and work
19:50 * sorear contemplates portability
19:51 sorear niecza on java.  mmm.
19:53 ash_ if you like .net more than C with a splash of C++ (arduino's are written in a language called Wiring, its a superset of C) there is also the Netduino, which is kinda a clone of the Arduino but targets .NET http://netduino.com/
19:54 dalek 6model: 3be093e | jnthn++ | dotnet/compiler/DNST2CSharp.pm:
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19:54 dalek 6model: If we have a supplied type, emit it in place of var for DNST::MethodCall nodes. Means we can do the transition away from var in stages.
19:54 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/3​be093e71fcc255c6621065267a7a3470e59ab3b
19:54 dalek 6model: 02d64c8 | jnthn++ | dotnet/compiler/PAST2DNSTCompiler.pm:
19:54 dalek 6model: Some initial tentative var-elimination for DNST::MethodCall nodes.
19:54 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/0​2d64c8bf77c15b92b339c23b4ec297a2a10a838
19:55 sorear jnthn: Why are you transitioning away from var?
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19:56 mberends sorear: it's easier to keep the java translation in sync with C# that way.
19:57 Grimnir_ Funny observation (not by me, and I'm not sure it's totally true, but quite funny): the tmtowtdi paradigm can make Perl people write Python code, if that's what is the best for the task (or they might just do it anyway, cause there is more than one way to do it). On the other hand it seems Python people would never write Perl code.
19:57 jnthn sorear: Because it's less headache for me to eliminate it than it is for mberends ;-)
19:57 dual left #perl6
19:57 jnthn (since I wrote this pile of scary in the first place :-))
19:58 Italian_Plumber left #perl6
19:58 masak Grimnir_: I find there's quite a lot of empty politics/PR in the respective stances of Perl and Python, with "there's more than one way to do it", and "there should be one obvious way to do it".
19:58 jnthn sorear: Also I'd have needed to do it anyway
19:58 timbunce left #perl6
19:59 jnthn sorear: Since I want to make IL at some point and the assembler won't type-infer for me. ;-)
19:59 masak Grimnir_: in the end, it comes down to being pragmatic and being able to let your code evolve in pace with its requirements.
19:59 masak Grimnir_: that said, the two stances do capture something about the ambient "spirit" of the two communities. but it's much less clear-cut and black-and-white than the slogans themselves make it seem.
20:00 Grimnir_ masak: of course. it's never as black and white as it seems :)
20:00 masak I love that about reality. :)
20:00 dalek 6model: a40c29f | jnthn++ | dotnet/compiler/PAST2DNSTCompiler.pm:
20:00 dalek 6model: Much, much more var elimination.
20:00 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/a​40c29f3af8606530d8137642efadc157cc2b83f
20:00 jnthn mberends: Those get things a LONG way.
20:00 mberends ash_: which model of the Arduino would you recommend buying? http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Hardware spoils us with choice :)
20:01 Grimnir_ I started thinking about Perl6, when I read the "perl periodic table" (or what it's called), that maybe it's quite difficult for newcomers to learn, or it's easy because you can do the same things in so many ways?
20:01 Grimnir_ I'm not sure. but it does seem that Python is a good language to use as a starting language
20:01 moritz_ if you don't prefer explicit scoping, yes
20:02 masak Grimnir_: Python evolved out of ABC, a language designed specifically for education.
20:02 Grimnir_ masak: it's not that I insist on the difference, and I actually like that there are those different ways of seeing programming and programming languages. it's just interesting, that there is that difference :)
20:02 Grimnir_ masak: ah, that makes sense
20:02 masak Grimnir_: I agree that it's interesting.
20:03 masak Grimnir_: if it were up to me, there would be less senseless tribalism and more cultural exchange across the language community borders.
20:03 dual joined #perl6
20:03 jnthn mberends: There's one nasty still.
20:03 jnthn mberends: Under elsif $op.pasttype eq 'nqpop' {
20:04 Grimnir_ a professor and some other people at computer science here made a python library for doing concurrent programming. his focus was that he wanted to make something, that is simple enough for scientists - who aren't programmers or computer scientists - to use without making ugly race conditions, and being able to do a lot of the programming with a gui tool. they actually kind of succeeded, and it was still only a beta release. quite impressive
20:04 Grimnir_ (they used python, I forgot to say that)
20:04 jnthn I think we're gonna need a op -> return type hash there.
20:04 Grimnir_ masak: is there a lot of tribalism?
20:04 ash_ mberends: that mostly depends on how you want to use it, the Arduino Uno (which like 2 days ago replaced the Arduino Duemilanove, they are really similar, one just uses FTDI the other uses USB), is great for most things if you want an affordable prototyping board. I have a Mega mainly because I didn't mind the slightly higher price with the added number of pins. most of the other boards are special purpose depending on if you want size (small like the pro),
20:04 ash_ integrated wireless socket (the Fio has a socket for a XBee radio chip) the LilyPad is flexible and designed for putting into close or fabric (my friend had one in a costume)
20:05 Grimnir_ I know a guy, who is not a programmer or developer or anything, but he likes to program stuff sometimes, and he really likes Python
20:05 masak Grimnir_: yes, I think there is. not so much here on #perl6, but lots in the social media, and in people I meet in the somasphere.
20:05 Grimnir_ I have found out that I so much more like a language like perl, because it's fun just to program. I get so much more out of programming some simple tasks in perl than php for instance
20:06 Grimnir_ and I like humor elements too. I just learned about the yadda yadda operator. I like stuff like that :)
20:07 sorear I wonder how much sense find_lex_p_ic_ic would make in a Parrot context
20:07 masak in Perl 6, we don't believe that having fun and being useful are mutually exclusive. :)
20:07 mberends ash_: I have similar preferences. Thanks for the tips. They all seem affordable too. Arduino++
20:07 sorear that's the main thing niecza uses
20:07 ash_ the more i program, the more i like functional style languages, personally. perl gives me enough of that while still not being completely foreign (like lisp or haskell i just haven't learned to understand their syntax)
20:07 Grimnir_ masak: exactly :)
20:07 Grimnir_ ash_: yes, good point
20:08 Grimnir_ I haven't tried lisp or haskell, but I have tried SML. it was nice, but you kind of loose the grip on it, if you don't use it
20:08 ash_ mberends: if your really into the electrical stuff, you can just by the chip and build the board yourself, my friend does that, he made about 10 for a lab he works in because they keep blowing them up :P its really cheap if you do it that way (like $15 for each)
20:09 timbunce joined #perl6
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20:12 ash_ sorry for causing so much noise in #perl6
20:12 masak rindolf: re http://perl-begin.org/learn/perl6/ -- from the perspective of someone who does believe that Perl 6 is "still" Perl, you don't make an extremely strong case for that viewpoint. :)
20:12 icwiener left #perl6
20:12 masak I would also like to take the opportunity and apologise for causing so much noise on #perl6 :P
20:13 Grimnir_ it doesn't bother me. I'm used to people talking about strange stuff on irc channels :)
20:14 mfollett Grimnir_:  I really like the Perl6 Periodic Table of Operators but I probably wouldn't show that to someone just learning the language, there is a lot of information there and that could be daunting for some.  I kind of think you learn those things as you need them or as you want to and then you look at the table after you've learned enough that it can be a useful reference.
20:15 rindolf masak: I didn't try to make a case for the viewpoint that Perl 6 is still Perl.
20:15 rindolf masak: a few years back, I would have probably written something much worse.
20:16 masak rindolf: I understand that. if you're interested, I or someone else here can try to make the point on the page better than it's made now.
20:17 masak the other parts of the page do make a good job at striving to be objective.
20:20 nsh joined #perl6
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20:23 masak yay! valid atom feed! \o/ http://validator.w3.org/feed/check.cgi?url=h​ttp://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/feed.atom
20:23 justatheory joined #perl6
20:26 sbp /topic I for one salute our new git-based overlords!
20:26 kjeldahl joined #perl6
20:27 masak moritz_: you mentioned wanting to update the Planet Perl 6 aggregator feed. now http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/feed.atom is available for that.
20:27 moritz_ [Coke]: see above
20:28 moritz_ masak: it's more "telling [Coke] what to do" than actually doing things :-)
20:29 masak oh. convenient :)
20:29 sbp rakudo: my @pascal := do [1], -> @p { [0, @p Z+ @p, 0] } ... *; say @pascal[^10].perl;
20:29 masak [Coke]++
20:29 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«([1], [1, 1], [1, 2, 1], [1, 3, 3, 1], [1, 4, 6, 4, 1], [1, 5, 10, 10, 5, 1], [1, 6, 15, 20, 15, 6, 1], [1, 7, 21, 35, 35, 21, 7, 1], [1, 8, 28, 56, 70, 56, 28, 8, 1], [1, 9, 36, 84, 126, 126, 84, 36, 9, 1])␤»
20:30 ash_ if you were doing prototype based inheritane wold you need a different HOW ?
20:30 * masak tries the feed in his own feed reader to make sure 's all OK
20:31 thebird left #perl6
20:35 masak wow, it works seamlessly! \o/
20:36 sjohnson any C experts here for an OT question?
20:36 sjohnson ( `ー´)
20:36 masak might this be the first Atom feed in history served by Perl 6? http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/feed.atom
20:36 moritz_ might be :-)
20:36 ash_ sjohnson: might as well ask and see
20:36 jnthn masak: Looks good in ffx's built in reader.
20:36 masak \o/
20:36 sjohnson C question:  if i have   int getLength(char str[]) { }... is str a pointer or an array?
20:37 masak looks good in Google Reader, too.
20:37 ash_ and array
20:37 sjohnson a noobie like me would assume str[] == array, but it is not so according to gcc.
20:37 ash_ an*
20:37 masak sjohnson: an array.
20:37 sjohnson people in #c say pointer
20:37 sjohnson and gcc seems to be agreeing with them
20:37 masak sjohnson: but it might be presented as a pointer, because the distinction is slight.
20:37 sjohnson str++; // pointer arithmatic works (confused face)
20:37 ash_ don't confuse array's and pointers, they are not strictly the same thing in C
20:38 masak nod, but sometimes it explains things to think of them as very similar.
20:38 sjohnson ash_: that's exactly my problem.  i'm trying not to confuse them... yet pointer arith in that function works, where as if i do  char[] pig = "happy pig";  pig++;  in main(), it breaks
20:39 flussence shouldn't that be "char pig[]"?
20:39 gfldex sjohnson: an array is a pointer that got mem allocated by the compiler (for you)
20:39 sjohnson flussence: yes
20:39 sjohnson sorry typo
20:39 flussence k
20:39 masak sjohnson: the relationship between array and pointer is basically has-a. an array has a pointer, which it sometimes exposes and confuses with itself.
20:40 masak sjohnson: specifically, the pointer that the array has is to the first of its consecutively allocated elements.
20:40 sjohnson confusing stuff!
20:40 masak sjohnson: thus, the equivalence a[i] == a + i holds.
20:41 masak er. I got the not-altogether right.
20:41 masak the rhs should be de-ref'd also.
20:42 sorear sjohnson: an array can be used as a pointer.  When this happens, you get a pointer to the first element
20:42 sorear But the resulting pointer is a value - it can't be modified
20:42 * masak finds and likes http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/dk1rg/ask​_perllit_list_of_changes_not_additions_perl_6/
20:43 dukeleto #parrotsketch is happening now if anybody is interested
20:44 ash_ left #perl6
20:45 pythonian4000afk is now known as pythonian4000
20:45 sjohnson heres the pastebin for anyone else who wants to add anything.   i wont clog up anymore of teh chan bandwidth
20:45 sjohnson http://www.pastie.org/1187376
20:45 sjohnson :-)
20:47 gfldex sjohnson: did you understood the difference?
20:47 sjohnson i still don't
20:47 sjohnson what masak said about the array having a pointer might explain it tho, but im still not sure.
20:48 gfldex "mammy moose" is a peace of memory on your data segment
20:48 masak sjohnson: fwiw, I liked sorear's explanation better :)
20:48 sorear sjohnson: IMHO gcc is wrong to accept line 9
20:48 gfldex that peace of memory is a constant
20:49 gfldex incrementing pigger would not cause much problem (in the given case)
20:49 sjohnson maybe calling testFunc(chararray) will always pass a pointer in C?
20:49 sorear sjohnson: when you say "char[] foo" as a parameter, the internal pointer is a variable, but that variable-ness is an implementation detail and shouldn't be leaking out like that
20:49 gfldex but what would pigger-- do?
20:49 sjohnson oh sorry that was sorear who said it.  thought it was masak.  oops
20:49 sorear sjohnson: yes, arrays in C are always passed by reference.  (Remember, the PDP-7 had 4kb of programmer-accessible RAM)
20:50 sjohnson gfldex: the code wont do anything, just commented where gcc would fail
20:50 sjohnson oh, man i'm blind today.  -- would just push the pointer backwards i would guess
20:51 masak aye.
20:51 sjohnson thanks for the help guys
20:53 sorear sjohnson: when you say char[] foo = "bar" at the top level, some memory is allocated at a fixed address, say 0x124, and the compiler remembers "foo =  0x124 (char[4])"
20:53 sorear sjohnson: foo++ doesn't make sense because foo is a constant
20:54 wamba left #perl6
20:54 M_o_C left #perl6
20:55 sjohnson ya that makes sense
20:55 sjohnson i got a lot to learn
20:55 sjohnson .oO(maybe i'll stick to Perl)
20:57 sjohnson ahh, here it is in K&R C 2nd ed
20:57 sjohnson "When an array name is passed to a function, what is passed is the location of the initial element. Within the called function, this argument is a local variable, and so an array name parameter is a pointer, that is, a variable containing an address."
20:57 sjohnson i should have RTFM'd first, but i thought it would take me forever to find the page saying that.  oops
20:58 sorear sjohnson: find a copy of the SVID-x86
20:58 sorear it's about 15 pages and has all the useful low-level details like that
20:58 sjohnson i wonder why it didnt warn me that i didnt write   char *str... when i wrote:  char str[].  maybe they're interchangeable
20:59 sjohnson thanks for the tip
20:59 sorear it's the binary compatibility spec for C compilers on UNIX
20:59 * sjohnson googles for it
20:59 sorear (System V Interface Description)
21:00 sjohnson thanks for the info.  well, next time i wont ask any more C questions here until i read all of my copy of K&R C
21:01 masak sjohnson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/​System_V_Interface_Definition
21:01 sjohnson just as i thought,  "As formal parameters in a function definition,  char s[]; and char *s; are equivalent;"
21:01 stkowski joined #perl6
21:01 sjohnson sorry if i wasted anyones time.   *hugs K&R C book*
21:02 * sjohnson bookmarks masaks URLK
21:02 masak sjohnson: no, it was quite informative. thanks for bringing it up.
21:03 rindolf left #perl6
21:03 sjohnson "#perl6... you learn something new every day" -- today's slogan
21:04 ash_ joined #perl6
21:04 kjeldahl left #perl6
21:05 sjohnson sorear: about line 9 being wrong, according to K&R C book it's okay to do so
21:05 sjohnson since it is a pointer, can do pointer arithmetic and such
21:05 Italian_Plumber left #perl6
21:07 tadzik left #perl6
21:08 masak sjohnson: it's only a pointer after you've passed it to a function.
21:09 masak s/a pointer/a modifiable pointer/
21:09 masak sjohnson: the original array is a constant pointer.
21:09 masak or has-a, depending how you view it.
21:10 sjohnson well, the array is not a pointer.  if you want to make a pointer from the constant array, you can do   char *pointer = &pigger[0];, then do pointer++;
21:11 sjohnson says in K&R C you cannot do pointer arithmatic on arrays because they aren't pointers.  is what your are saying the same thing said another way?
21:12 masak char *pointer = pigger; /* should work */
21:12 masak sjohnson: arrays aren't pointers. arrays are arrays. :)
21:13 sjohnson i tried that, but it won't work
21:13 sjohnson says incomaptible type
21:13 sjohnson well, i get a warning
21:13 sjohnson i shouldn't say it wont work
21:13 masak sjohnson: in some situations (such as when they're being passed by reference through a function signature) they act like pointers (to the first element in the array).
21:13 sjohnson as difficult as this stuff is, it's still interesting
21:13 * masak tries locally
21:14 * sjohnson waits patiently :)
21:14 mkramer left #perl6
21:17 sjohnson i shouldn't say difficult actually... just lower-level than perl
21:17 sjohnson K&R C 2nd Ed -- "The answers are here" should have been its subtitle
21:18 Ross left #perl6
21:19 masak sjohnson: works fine here. http://gist.github.com/601801
21:20 sjohnson hmm
21:20 sjohnson i wonder why im getting warnings
21:21 sjohnson now i'm not.  thanks for double checkin
21:21 sjohnson must have done something else foolish
21:21 sjohnson im glad it works
21:21 sjohnson cause i thought it should work
21:21 sjohnson :)
21:21 sjohnson thats always a nice feeling
21:25 jfried left #perl6
21:25 meppl joined #perl6
21:29 masak A12 says that 'next' and 'last' should default to (what is now called) 'nextsame' and 'lastcall', respecitvely? is that still the case in current Perl 6?
21:30 pyrimidine left #perl6
21:35 masak by the way, my new blog is being statically generated by 200 lines of Perl 6 code (with Markdown conversion outsourced to 1.5kLOC Perl 5 code)
21:41 sjohnson masak i see what i did wrong for the warning.  i did  char ptr* = &array;
21:41 masak sjohnson: good. now explain to me why that is wrong. :)
21:42 sjohnson cause array already is the address for the first element
21:42 sjohnson and doesnt need the &
21:42 sjohnson would be my guess
21:42 masak exactly.
21:42 masak sjohnson++
21:42 sjohnson :)
21:42 sjohnson sjohnson being a pointer, of course
21:43 sjohnson ;)
21:43 sjohnson alright, back to perl6 mode for me
21:43 sjohnson too much low level thinking for one day
21:44 silug i hate asking a stupid question, but is there a replacement for hex() in perl 6?
21:45 flussence fmt?
21:45 sbp masak: source for the blog generator?
21:45 * flussence reads perldoc -f hex again
21:45 sjohnson sprintf with %H?
21:45 flussence rakudo: say '0xAF'.Int
21:46 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«175␤»
21:46 flussence rakudo: say :16<AF>
21:46 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«175␤»
21:46 masak sbp: hm, it's not on github or anything like that yet.
21:47 masak sbp: basically, what I have now is the specific solution that works for me. the next step is to generalize it while keeping it working.
21:47 silug flussence: neat.  thanks.
21:48 sbp examples of Perl 6 in the wild might be helpful for learners, even if the code isn't generalised. it's probably a good example of idioms that many programmers will be using commonly, and it's designed specifically as a piece of working code rather than testing or showcode
21:48 masak true.
21:48 sbp an annotated version of at least pieces of it might make a good post, too?
21:48 masak in that vein, here's a gist. http://gist.github.com/601864 -- enjoy.
21:48 sbp thanks!
21:49 masak I'm making my first post as we speak. might highlight some parts of the code just for fun :)
21:49 masak look at the sub 'html_escape', for example -- isn't that exquisite?
21:50 masak even with the rakudobug workaround, it's short and to the point.
21:50 sbp yeah, I really like that one
21:50 sbp is this following piece approved perl6 stylewise?
21:50 sbp $infile.get;
21:50 sbp 1 until $infile.get eq '---';
21:51 sbp I presume it's just discarding stuff until ---
21:51 masak right.
21:51 masak up to and including.
21:51 masak I've been thinking of other ways to write that idiom.
21:52 masak the '1 while' way is actually a bit p5-centric. I chose it this time for some reason.
21:53 masak I also tend to like `repeat until $infile.get eq '---' {}`
21:53 ruoso left #perl6
21:53 sbp hmm, I think I prefer that
21:53 masak or `* until $infile.get eq '---';`
21:54 sbp the {} makes the noop more obvious
21:54 masak aye.
21:54 sbp noop until $infile.get eq '---'... :-)
21:54 sbp finished skimming it, anyway
21:54 sbp thanks for posting that!
21:54 sbp masak++
21:54 sbp have a kudon. the SI unit of kudos, I tink
21:54 masak :)
21:55 masak thanks for skimming it! I feel kudo'd :)
21:56 timbunce left #perl6
21:57 sbp what was the 'if "_site/$html_filename".IO ~~ :e' commented section for, by the way?
21:57 flussence wow... that's a lot of stuff in not a lot of lines! masak++
21:58 flussence sbp: skips generating files where the output's newer than the input, I guess
21:58 masak sbp: it's a failed attempt to only generate target files from the source files that were changed.
21:58 sbp ah, yes! makes sense now
21:58 masak aye. what flussence said.
21:59 masak for some reason that I haven't had time investigating, it didn't quite work.
21:59 masak I tend not to commit commented-out code, but this isn't committed code :P
21:59 flussence that's odd, irssi didn't highlight that line :/
21:59 sbp why did you use the [<] there rather than a nested < between the two?
22:00 flussence he'd have to write .IO.modified out twice that way.
22:00 sbp hmm. I guess somehow the IO.modified call is being applied to both the args before the < is... right
22:00 flussence .oO( I think I'm starting to learn this language! )
22:00 masak aye.
22:00 sbp simple case of me no understand the "»", apparently
22:00 sbp hehe
22:01 masak sbp: the » is basically a 'map' here.
22:02 sbp ah. so it's creating a new list each time?
22:02 sbp array, sorry
22:02 masak maybe an example'll help.
22:03 masak rakudo: my @a = <oh hi there>; .say for @a>>.ucfirst
22:03 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«Oh␤Hi␤There␤»
22:04 sbp this seems to provide a good adjunct to your "all good, well-established features, which find daily use in Perl 6 programs" paragraph. what the commentators are missing is that these features which seem to just be there to golf all programs into incomprehensible oblivion have actually been huffmanised with a lot of care and eye to practicality
22:05 sbp the IO.modified being a good example
22:05 masak which paragraph is that?
22:06 sbp the one starting "I think these reactions" in http://strangelyconsistent​.org/blog/idiomatic-perl-6
22:10 masak ah. didn't remember writing that :)
22:10 masak but I agree 100% with the sentiment.
22:11 masak the featureset that I'm used to -- say, most of the features in Rakudo -- feel *very* well engineered.
22:11 silug flussence: fwiw, :16<> doesn't seem to work on a string.
22:12 silug but prepending 0x and using .Int works fine, even if it is a little ugly.  :)
22:12 masak I mean, I'm learning Perl 5 piece by piece, and apart from speed, memory usage and stability, there are many places where I wish that Perl 5 was more like Perl 6.
22:12 flussence that's because the <>s *are* string quote operators - use :16($string)
22:12 silug oh, duh
22:12 silug see, like i said, stupid question
22:13 masak or :16«$string» -- should work too, for the same reason qq interpolates.
22:13 flussence q = <, qq = «?
22:13 mberends left #perl6
22:14 silug yeah, i can't seem to retain that (yet)
22:14 Mowah left #perl6
22:15 hudnix For some reason I just wanted to write something like "has $.attribute = somefunc($^a)" and likewise for other attributes and have it automatically generate the right .new() function for that. Anyone have any thoughts on that idea?
22:16 flussence would *.&somefunc work there?
22:16 jnthn What could the $^a be?
22:17 jnthn You can call a function on the RHS of the = there and it automatically closures it up and does it once per instnace.
22:17 hudnix the first parameter to the automatically generated new funtion;
22:18 hudnix sure, but how to pass a parameter to the RHS without writing a .new()?
22:19 sbp rakudo: my @pascal := [1], -> @p { [0, @p Z+ @p, 0] } ... *; say @pascal[^10].perl
22:19 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«([1], [1, 1], [1, 2, 1], [1, 3, 3, 1], [1, 4, 6, 4, 1], [1, 5, 10, 10, 5, 1], [1, 6, 15, 20, 15, 6, 1], [1, 7, 21, 35, 35, 21, 7, 1], [1, 8, 28, 56, 70, 56, 28, 8, 1], [1, 9, 36, 84, 126, 126, 84, 36, 9, 1])␤»
22:19 sbp ah, bug #77462 was fixed
22:20 jnthn hudnix: Ah, I see what you mean. Hm.
22:21 hudnix Just a thought inspired by an excess of laziness :)
22:21 jnthn rakudo: class Foo { has $.x = .say }; Foo.new(x => 42)
22:21 jnthn (curious :-))
22:21 p6eval rakudo 624188:  ( no output )
22:22 jnthn Aw
22:22 masak :)
22:24 envi joined #perl6
22:25 flussence rakudo: class A { has $.a; has $.b = $.a.chars }; say A.new(a=>"abcd").b
22:25 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«4␤»
22:26 masak rakudo: class A { has $.b = $.a.chars; has $.a }; say A.new(a=>"abcd").b
22:26 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«Method 'chars' not found for invocant of class ''␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/sxuPU5SB3G␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/sxuPU5SB3G␤»
22:27 mberends joined #perl6
22:29 hudnix class A {has $.a = $^b + 1;has $.b = $^a }; say A.new(1,2).a # was kind of what I was thinking of
22:29 hudnix rakudo: class A {has $.a = $^b + 1;has $.b = $^a }; say A.new(1,2).a # was kind of what I was thinking of
22:29 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in type()␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/tqkPXiH0Dh␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/tqkPXiH0Dh␤»
22:29 masak that doesn't rhyme well with how the ^ twigil works in other situations.
22:29 * masak submits rakudobug
22:30 masak rakudo: class A { has $.a = $^b }; A.new
22:30 p6eval rakudo 624188: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in isa_pmc()␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/wzoXcvg6DL␤»
22:30 masak rakudo: class A { $^b }; A.new
22:30 p6eval rakudo 624188:  ( no output )
22:38 masak yay, I freaking BLOGGED! http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/d​og-food-with-a-distinct-perl6-flavor
22:39 [Coke] moritz_: please be more specific?
22:39 hudnix wow, very nice.
22:39 masak [Coke]: could you please add my feed to Planet Perl 6?
22:40 masak [Coke]: http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/feed.atom
22:40 masak and the post has already shown up in my Google Reader! \o/
22:40 masak I can't believe it all just works.
22:41 [Coke] masak: you want it to replace your use.perl one?
22:41 hanekomu_ left #perl6
22:41 jnthn masak: nice
22:41 masak [Coke]: whatever's easiest for you.
22:41 rjbs masak: Yay!
22:41 masak [Coke]: since I can't blog from the old one, I don't really care.
22:42 envi left #perl6
22:42 masak jnthn++ for suggesting the blog post title :)
22:42 [Coke] masak: changed.
22:42 masak \o/
22:43 [Coke] msg chromatic planetsix points to your use.perl URL. Do you have a different one you'd like plugged in?
22:43 [Coke] phenny, tell chromatic planetsix points to your use.perl URL. Do you have a different one you'd like plugged in?
22:43 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when chromatic is around.
22:43 mfollett masak++
22:44 justatheory left #perl6
22:44 [Coke] phenny, tell allison planetsix points to your use.perl URL. Do you have a different one you'd like plugged in?
22:44 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when allison is around.
22:44 [Coke] phenny, tell luqui planetsix points to your use.perl URL. Do you have a different one you'd like plugged in?
22:44 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when luqui is around.
22:44 [Coke] phenny, tell obra planetsix points to your use.perl URL. Do you have a different one you'd like plugged in?
22:44 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when obra is around.
22:44 [Coke] phenny, tell pmichaud planetsix points to your use.perl URL. Do you have a different one you'd like plugged in?
22:44 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
22:45 [Coke] phenny, tell stevan planetsix points to your use.perl URL. Do you have a different one you'd like plugged in?
22:45 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when stevan is around.
22:45 [Coke] phenny: tell moritz_ that robert disabled your 5-to-6 feed as it was borking planetsix.
22:45 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when moritz_ is around.
22:45 [Coke] phenny: tell jnthn that robert disabled your 5-to-6 feed as it was borking planetsix.
22:45 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
22:46 [Coke] phenny, tell jnthn whoops! I mean, planetsix points to your use.perl URL. Do you have a different one you'd like plugged in?
22:46 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
22:46 masak [Coke]: I'll try really really hard not to bork planetsix. so far my Atom feed seems very well-behaved.
22:46 [Coke] can someone pass that along to Herbert Breunung also?
22:47 masak phenny: tell lichtkind planetsix points to your use.perl URL. Do you have a different one you'd like plugged in?
22:47 phenny masak: I'll pass that on when lichtkind is around.
22:47 masak [Coke]: done.
22:48 jnthn [Coke]: 5-6 feed?
22:48 phenny jnthn: 22:45Z <[Coke]> tell jnthn that robert disabled your 5-to-6 feed as it was borking planetsix.
22:48 phenny jnthn: 22:46Z <[Coke]> tell jnthn whoops! I mean, planetsix points to your use.perl URL. Do you have a different one you'd like plugged in?
22:48 masak jnthn: [Coke] mis-copipasted a message to moritz_ to you.
22:48 thundergnat joined #perl6
22:48 sjohnson niggers and bitches.
22:48 sjohnson oops
22:48 sjohnson paste buffer accident
22:48 diakopter sigh.
22:48 masak sjohnson: now *that* is off-topic.
22:48 sjohnson i sincerely apologize for that
22:48 masak :(
22:48 rjbs Clearly meant for #perl5
22:49 masak *lol*
22:49 sjohnson damn rap lyrics.
22:49 diakopter apology accepted, captain needa
22:49 * flussence has absent-mindedly pasted hundreds of KB of random text into search engines to date...
22:49 jnthn [Coke]: Just toss the use.perl.org one.
22:50 jnthn [Coke]: It's already aggregating from my current blog too.
22:50 jnthn [Coke]: Not sure why it was added rather than replacing my existing one.
22:50 masak wait, did diakopter just strangle sjohnson?
22:50 sjohnson masak++ # funny way to make light of it
22:50 masak ...telekinetically?
22:50 flussence (thankfully irssi stopped me last time I accidentally middle clicked on this window)
22:51 [Coke] jnthn: done
22:51 jnthn [Coke]++ # thanks!
22:51 sjohnson probably a sign i should stop using the computer for a while :)
22:51 * [Coke] cues up some eminem.
22:52 jnthn Or listem to some wholesome heavy metal instead. :P
22:53 sjohnson maybe rap lyrics to influence people!
22:54 sjohnson concerned parents were right
22:54 thundergnat 'lo #perl6
22:55 masak y0 thundergnat
22:55 thundergnat Is R* still on track for today?
22:56 miso_soup joined #perl6
22:56 jnthn löwenbräu++
22:56 jnthn And now I sleep. Night all o/
22:57 sjohnson cya!
22:58 thundergnat (backlogs) Ooo! tadzik and nymacro, perl6 golf. Let me take a whack at it.
23:00 [Coke] last i heard, R* was on track, pmichaud is at least temporarily delayed by errands.
23:01 sjohnson cover your eyes when you backlog near my parts ;)
23:01 diakopter once upon a time some of us had access to an irclog memory hole
23:03 thundergnat sjohnson: I'll studiously avoid your parts, never fear.
23:04 sjohnson ( `ー´)
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23:07 dalek 6model: cffcdc8 | mberends++ | java/ (6 files):
23:07 dalek 6model: [java] eliminate many (mis)uses of the C# var data type
23:07 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/c​ffcdc8927a219fdf17a10b4a1eeb1db8b4d60ed
23:09 mberends ^^ just too late for jnthn++ to review
23:18 thundergnat tadzik: golfed your 441 http://gist.github.com/601011 down to 355 http://gist.github.com/601953
23:19 thundergnat mostly got rid of intermediate variables.
23:19 diakopter '(h) hit (s) sit'   could be   '(s)(h)it'
23:19 diakopter erm
23:19 diakopter '(h)(s)it'
23:19 thundergnat heh
23:20 thundergnat I didn't change any of the prompts, but you have a point.
23:21 thundergnat The winning condition check is pretty fragile too.
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23:33 masak 'night, #perl6.
23:33 thundergnat night masak
23:33 masak left #perl6
23:34 thundergnat whittled it down to 350 http://gist.github.com/601953
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