Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-10-05

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 colomon rakudo: say 1/2 minmax 3/5
00:03 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
00:04 TimToady oO
00:04 sjohnson (* == *)
00:05 diakopter rakudo: say 1/(2 minmax 3/5)
00:05 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
00:06 TimToady rakudo: say [minmax] 1/2, 3,5
00:06 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«0.5 1.5 2.5 3.5 4.5␤»
00:06 TimToady rakudo: say [minmax] 1/2, 3/55
00:06 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«0.0545454545454545␤»
00:06 TimToady grrr
00:06 TimToady rakudo: say [minmax] 1/2, 3/5
00:06 sjohnson ┐( ¯3¯)┌
00:06 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
00:06 colomon rakudo: say (1/2) minmax (3/5)
00:06 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
00:06 TimToady why isn't it returning a range?
00:06 colomon darned if I know.
00:07 colomon time to look at the source
00:07 s_mosher reciprocal difference (I hope): http://gist.github.com/610694
00:08 araujo guys .. mm.. I have some kind of a dilemma here about a language feature ...
00:08 araujo I hope it doesn't bother I ask here...
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00:08 araujo a variable update inside a block can *ONLY* be modified inside that block scope, though it is visible and usable in deeper blocks unless it is overwritten by other block variables with the same name
00:08 araujo does it sound sane?
00:08 sjohnson ask hugme
00:09 sjohnson or askme
00:09 TimToady you're asking us about sanity?  US!?!?
00:10 araujo hehehe
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00:10 araujo I thought designing a language was very objective ... but I sometimes feel it is a very subjective process .... that is bit scary
00:11 diakopter it gets easier by the decade, I imagine
00:11 TimToady welcome to the minefield; here, have some hand grenades
00:12 sjohnson Rakudo Minefield
00:12 TimToady .oO(let's see, if I tell him to make it like Perl, he'll steal all my users)
00:12 TimToady I think you should do it differently from Perl
00:13 s_mosher araujo, I've learned this about designing languages: when in doubt, be conservative in the amount of work you make for yourself.
00:13 TimToady .oO(no wait, if it's the same as Perl, they won't have a reason to switch)
00:13 TimToady I think you should make it the same as Perl
00:13 s_mosher I haven't learned it well enough though. none of my designs have implementations I'm willing to show off
00:14 TimToady my advice, if you want to have people user your language, is to do as much work on their behalf as you can.  :P
00:14 TimToady *use
00:14 TimToady there is no language advice that cannot be contradicted, with proponents on both sides
00:15 s_mosher who needs users? they're terrible people.
00:15 s_mosher I should know ;)
00:16 TimToady unfortunately I am one of my users.
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00:18 araujo TimToady, hehehehe
00:21 s_mosher TimToady, language designers must live where laziness and motivation unify
00:21 colomon rakudo: say 1/2; say 3/5
00:21 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«0.5␤0.6␤»
00:22 TimToady say (1/2 minmax 3/5).max
00:22 TimToady rakudo: say (1/2 minmax 3/5).max
00:22 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«0.6␤»
00:23 colomon rakudo: say (0.5 .. 0.6)
00:23 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
00:23 TimToady there's the bug
00:23 TimToady oh, wait
00:23 TimToady hmm
00:23 TimToady innersting
00:23 colomon waiting patiently....
00:24 TimToady it turns into 0.5, *+1 ...^ * > 0.6
00:24 TimToady it's a list context
00:24 colomon oh.
00:25 colomon yes
00:25 colomon rakudo: say (1/2 minmax 3/5).perl
00:25 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«1/2..3/5␤»
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00:27 colomon should we maybe define Range.Str to do something which doesn't involve printing out the entire list?  Seems like it might save a lot of confusion...
00:28 TimToady does it even see .Str before it iterates the range?
00:29 colomon there is no Range.Str right now, so now.
00:29 colomon I mean, it's probably doing Iterable.Str or something like that.
00:29 TimToady even if there were, it's it list context before it's in string context
00:29 colomon ah, really?
00:30 TimToady say is going to iterate its list, and then apply .Str
00:30 colomon makes sense, I guess.
00:32 colomon none of this explains why my $work code isn't working, mind you.  ;)
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00:39 colomon $u ~~ (@.points[$_ - 1][0] minmax @.points[$_][0])
00:39 colomon "Cannot modify readonly value"
00:39 colomon something to do with the ACCEPTS
00:41 colomon huh.  if I believe the line number, that's Block.ACCEPTS.
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00:42 colomon oh, that's the ACCEPTS in grep.
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00:55 colomon rakudo: (0, 1, 3, 5).grep({ $_ ~~ 2..4 }).say
00:55 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«3␤»
00:56 colomon rakudo: my $u = 2; (0, 1, 3, 5).grep({ $u ~~ $_..4 }).say
00:56 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«0135␤»
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01:12 colomon staring at the minmax code has not yielded any flashes of insight.
01:14 lucas_ hi everyone
01:15 colomon o/
01:15 lucas_ I can see the POD sources for the apocalypses in urls like http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/apo/*.pod
01:15 lucas_ but I was wondering if they are available in some repository as well?
01:16 colomon yes
01:16 colomon they're in github somewhere now.
01:16 plobsing mu?
01:16 colomon doubt it.
01:16 colomon but I forget what the url is
01:16 lucas_ i didnt find it in mu
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01:17 lucas_ I understand they are historical and are not going to be edited
01:17 lucas_ but anyway, I just want to download them
01:17 lucas_ (easily :-)
01:18 colomon hmmm.
01:19 colomon I was thinking http://github.com/perl6/specs, but that's just the synopsis specs.
01:19 lucas_ yes
01:20 colomon mu is http://github.com/perl6/mu
01:20 colomon but at a quick glance I don't see them there either.  sorry.
01:22 lucas_ thanks anyway
01:22 lucas_ You see, I have this fetish for table of contents
01:22 lucas_ and just wanted to do a grep '^=' *.pod in those files
01:22 lucas_ nothing important
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01:35 colomon http://gist.github.com/610804 is a quick summary of the weirdness I'm seeing
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02:09 TimToady colomon: $_ is rebound on the right side of ~~
02:10 TimToady change it to $^a and I'll bet it works
02:12 colomon TimToady++
02:12 colomon you got it in one.
02:13 colomon wonder why it used to work?
02:13 colomon or at least to plausibly fail in such a way I didn't notice the difference.
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02:28 ash_ rakudo: class A { has $.HOW; }; A.new(HOW => ClassHOW);
02:28 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«Type objects are abstract and have no attributes, but you tried to access $!HOW␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/5a13gS9rTB␤»
02:28 ash_ rakudo won't let you modify the how :-(
02:30 ash_ that seem like a bug to anyone else?
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02:36 lucas_ tip: what are perl6 github repositories?
02:36 lucas_ answer using github yaml webservice interface
02:37 lucas_ curl -s http://github.com/api/v2/yaml/repos/show/perl6 | sed -n 's/.*:name: //p' | sort
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03:05 sorear lucas_: we have a list of them in a json file in the proto repository
03:08 sorear TimToady: I see (and implement) $_-rebinding constructs as creating a non-capturing block, much like described at S02:1015 - S02:1032 .  Is this a sane semantics, or should I be looking to emulate "temp" more closely?
03:09 sorear TimToady: I wonder if the essential difference between &[Xxx] and &infix:<Xxx> is that the former does meta ops?
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03:15 TimToady sorear: well, if it stays bound after, say, ~~ is done, then it's likely a problem
03:16 TimToady well--one essential difference is that &[op] is specced to always be 2-ary
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03:18 sorear it's more like A ~~ B = (&[~~])(A, { B }.(A))
03:20 sorear colomon: ovid is doing p6 stuff?  where?
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04:17 sorear TimToady: btw, I finally understand CvPADLIST
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06:10 sorear TimToady: How does Perl 6 feel about ad-hoc optimizations?  (e.g. I'm planning to generate special code for ^INTEGER_CONSTANT { .. })
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06:13 sorear in the spirit of Perl 5.005's foreach (1 .. 1000000) { } optimization
06:14 moritz_ sorear: If you know that no other prefix:<^> multi competes with it, that's fine
06:20 sorear semantically, sure; I'm wondering more philosophically
06:54 dalek niecza/master: 2dd2dee | sorear++ | / (3 files):
06:54 dalek niecza/master: Implement the is rw parameter trait
06:54 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/2​dd2dee5d866e5f10d0d9ba8b49c6c292034905c
06:54 dalek niecza/master: c25514f | sorear++ | / (3 files):
06:54 dalek niecza/master: Include sub names in backtraces
06:54 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c​25514f952a394a0a4342de94f7bfdf8b8606eed
06:54 dalek niecza/master: eeab430 | sorear++ | src/CSharpBackend.pm:
06:54 dalek niecza/master: Let CgOp reference classes by Perl 6 name
06:54 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e​eab430756ddd5e768e4b74117a71e813a49198d
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07:08 sorear Wait a second.  Doesn't Mu.bless($existing-object) break the entire gradual typing system? :/
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07:32 sorear ping jnthn
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08:08 dalek niecza/master: 36ef3b7 | sorear++ | / (6 files):
08:08 dalek niecza/master: Implement typed variables (low level)
08:08 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/3​6ef3b7854f169367e1cfd615aac6a13a7d84a51
08:08 dalek niecza/master: 25a646d | sorear++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
08:08 dalek niecza/master: Slightly improve error message for type errors
08:08 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/2​5a646d5a06b46f0f8a5baba1787917993ad9bde
08:08 sorear whee, I have my $x; $x = Mu; failing
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08:20 sorear aloha: seen chromatic
08:20 aloha sorear: chromatic was last seen in #parrot 9 days 13 hours ago joining the channel.
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08:56 masak morning, #perl6
09:01 nymacro moin
09:02 * masak heeft een goede nachtrust
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09:14 masak "There are only two hard problems in Computer Science: documentation and shutting the hell up."
09:14 masak :)
09:15 masak source: http://twitter.com/flangy/status/26192632417
09:16 mathw That's a pretty good quote
09:16 masak I like it. it's a variation of two other quotes I've seen floating around lately. the second of which is a parody of the first.
09:17 masak the first goes "...: cache invalidation, and the fact that there aren't anough three-letter acronyms"
09:17 masak the second one adds "...and off-by one errors"
09:20 mathw I'm not sure that counts as an off-by-one error
09:20 mathw <- pedant
09:21 masak I know. that's why I didn't find the second version particularly funny.
09:21 masak I liked this new one, though.
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09:22 nymacro masak, wasn't it cache invalidation and naming things? (the first)
09:22 masak nymacro: that might well be so.
09:23 masak I've had the quote told to me IRL as well, and then there was definitely a mention of TLAs. but it might indeed have been as a comment to "naming things".
09:23 mathw naming things is definitely difficult
09:24 * mathw decides that arguing with Apple fanboys about Microsoft's mobile OS strategy is just a good way to get a conviction for GBH
09:24 masak I have a name looking for a project: "Vermin". any ideas?
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09:30 nymacro masak, all my ideas are inappropriate. Maybe you need another name :)
09:31 masak I'll just put this name on hold and work on other names for now.
09:32 nymacro As the Chinese Proverb goes: when the time comes, you'll know when to use them. Actually, I just made that up.
09:41 masak making up Chinese proverbs is an old, time-honoured tradition.
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09:45 masak I'm very happy to read what Tom Legrady is doing with Rakudo in http://which-dwarf-are-you.blogspot.​com/2010/09/exploring-perl6_30.html
09:46 masak I wouldn't solve Sudoku like he does, but I like the Perl 6 in itself. quite advanced usages.
09:46 masak it's a testament to Rakudo being quite mature that someone can just pick it up and do something like this.
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09:58 masak TimToady: the way I've been understanding the Perl 6 model of methods and subs is that "it's all lambdas" underneath. is chromatic's opinion at http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/​comments/dl58d/larry_wall_i_dont_rea​lly_know_much_about_python_i/c111vap at odds with that idea? seems to me he wants a distinction all the way down.
09:59 masak hm, maybe I'm overinterpreting what he says. Perl 6 does distinguish subs and methods on the surface.
09:59 masak much to the dismay of about half of the newcomers to Perl 6. :)
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10:00 masak anyway, interesting reddit thread.
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13:04 takadonet morning all
13:04 colomon o/
13:04 takadonet colomon: how are you sir?
13:04 colomon sleepy
13:04 colomon you?
13:05 takadonet same
13:12 colomon also, Ovid seems to be pulling well ahead from me in the Lacuna Expanse.  :\
13:13 colomon I'm stuck at 27th place, while he seems to have gone from about 30th to 20th over the weekend.
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14:35 ash_ class A { has $.HOW; }; A.new(HOW => 3); # aren't you supposed to be able to write your own HOW's?
14:36 ash_ rakudo
14:36 ash_ rakudo: class A { has $.HOW; }; A.new(HOW => 3); # fail typing right now
14:36 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«Type objects are abstract and have no attributes, but you tried to access $!HOW␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/zx3piRPL08␤»
14:36 jnthn ash_: Not like that.
14:36 ash_ oh...
14:36 jnthn HOW is not meant to be a method.
14:37 jnthn Rakudo's had that wrong for ages.
14:37 jnthn It's fixed in the nom branch of nqp-rx though :-)
14:37 ash_ hmm, alright, well, i was still trying to make a PrototypeHOW, should i check out that branch of nqp-rx to test it with?
14:38 ash_ can i use rakudo with that branch of nqp-rx?
14:38 jnthn ash_: It's a building site in there.
14:38 jnthn ash_: Very unlikely - it fails too many nqp tests at the moment.
14:38 jnthn It's in the middle of having its class keyword switched to using the new model.
14:38 jnthn That aside, it *is* the place to play with such things.
14:39 jnthn For one, because what exists of classes is implemented in there, in NQP.
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14:39 jnthn So at that level it already is supporting custom meta-classes, mostly because all of them are custom. ;-)
14:40 jnthn We're just missing the stuff to make it convenient (e.g. slangs)
14:40 ash_ ya, i kinda stole a bunch of code from rakudo/docs/metamodel.pod and from the nom branch of nqp-rx (i saw your KnowHOW work and copied things from that)
14:40 jnthn But if you want to play, maybe fork nqp-rx's nom branch and patch in a declarator and install a mapping for it.
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14:41 jnthn (Of course, I'm happy to review and incorporate any improvements too. :-))
14:42 ash_ if i make anything useful, i'll let you know
14:42 jnthn :-)
14:43 jnthn ClassHOW is probably the best thing to look at wrt how the WHAT/HOW are set up.
14:43 jnthn especially the new_type method.
14:44 jnthn Essentially though, anything you write in that pattern gets representation polymorphism "out of the box".
14:44 jnthn But you may also choose to constrain it.
14:45 hudnix I have implemented Knuth's "Dancing Links" algorithm in perl6.
14:46 hudnix It solves small problems, slowly, but segfaults on anything largish.
14:47 TimToady is there a rosettacode page for that problem?
14:47 ash_ jnthn: when a method lookup fails, what happens? does that throw an error? or...?
14:48 hudnix I don't know. it's rather large for rosettacode.
14:48 colomon hudnix++
14:48 colomon hudnix: do a blog post or something, so the rest of us can see it?
14:49 TimToady yes, colomon++ is getting lonely on planetsix
14:49 colomon or, ooooo, make it a module!  :)
14:49 PerlJam hudnix: and create a rosettacode page for it :)
14:49 colomon TimToady: too true.  :)
14:49 hudnix colomon: I will, I guess this is a good excuse to finally start a blog :)
14:50 hudnix colomon: It is a module :)
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14:50 colomon hudnix++: which you will blog about!  lovely.
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14:51 jnthn ash_: Undecided. (more)
14:51 jnthn ash_: The Parrot API wants us to return a sentinel from find_method saying it wasn't found.
14:51 jnthn It uses PMCNULL
14:51 jnthn But that's not something we want to start throwing around in Perl 6 land.
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14:52 jnthn I'm pondering that find_method throws an error and can returns a Nil-ish value or something like that.
14:52 hudnix I need to find a place for my perl blog, though. I see "use perl;" is dead :(
14:52 colomon hudnix: I've been very happy with Wordpress.
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14:52 ash_ jnthn: what about AUTOLOAD like methods on package in p6? will those need some sort of special interaction with find_method to work?
14:52 jnthn I'm happily using Wordpress too.
14:53 hudnix I've set up wordpress for friends. I hate it :)
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14:53 jnthn ash_: I guess maybe Perl 6's ClassHOW will implement something in find_method.
14:53 jnthn But maybe that's the wrong factoring.
14:53 ash_ my blog is in wordpress, because the hosting company i uses let me install it with 1 button and its easy and i can be lazy :P
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14:54 hudnix ash_: easy initial set up is it's big strenght :)
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14:55 ash_ hudnix: i went through the phase of "ooh i need to make my own blog in X framework" and after finally realizing how much work the wordpress (insert other blogging system here) has done, i decided to not re-invent the wheel, because there is a good one already, or good enough for me
14:57 nymacro the best way to implement software is don't
14:58 nymacro I'm all for hanging out in caves and banging sticks together for entertainment
14:58 ash_ jnthn: i saw that a lot of the AUTO* stuff was removed from the spec's, didn't it used to have AUTO [SCALAR|ARRAY|HASH] etc...
14:58 ash_ S10 talks about CANDO now instead of AUTO*
14:58 ash_ anyway, just a side thought
14:58 hudnix ash_: Yes, it's true. It's just that I had a bad experience with it once, setting it up for someone as their main site, and trying to customize it heavily so that it looked ... not like a wordpress blog. The experience left me slightly bitter about wordpress.
14:59 ash_ nymacro: when we work up to fire, it will be WEEKS of entertainment there, what happens when it goes out? what happens if i burn this leaf? how well do rocks taste boiled?
15:00 nymacro I know right. How interesting must life have been back then? I mean, you can't reinvent a wheel which hasn't even been invented yet anyway!
15:00 ash_ hudnix: ya, i worked for a web company before that did that, i hate when my boss wants to put a round peg in a square hole. there are some things that don't fit together no matter how hard you try
15:00 colomon bikeshedding was very boring then.
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15:03 ash_ btw, if anyone in here uses textmate, i updated the perl syntax so it highlights p6 a bit better, its not prefect but its better than it was
15:03 colomon ash_++
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15:04 * hudnix is still trying to get emacs to indent P6 properly
15:04 frettled ash_: "If it doesn't fit, you're not trying hard enough!" - because that MUST be why it doesn't fit.  It can't be the wrong solution, oh no.  :)
15:05 frettled hudnix: are you using an updated Perl 6 mode thingy?
15:05 colomon ash_: would it make sense to make a separate Perl 6 mode for TextMate instead?
15:06 ash_ colomon: well, it might, but all the filetypes already map .pl (and friends) to perl, plus the way i have it, perl5 highlighting still works fine (none of my changes really impact perl5)
15:07 hudnix frettled: I didn't know emacs had a perl 6 mode thingy.
15:07 ash_ it's more along the lines of where it used to expect package you can now say class|module|role and things like that
15:08 colomon ash_: I'd happily give it a whirl here.  ;)
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15:10 ash_ alright, one sec, let me put it on github
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15:13 ash_ colomon: TextMate seems to have made my changes a diffs rather than a replacement for the old module and i haven't figured out how to make it not do that. So, http://github.com/ashgti/perl-tmbundle/downloads has the diffs, just unzip that and place it in ~/Library/Application\ Support/TextMate/Bundles/
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15:29 ash_ colomon: alright, i now have all of my changes merged with the perl bundle, if you do want you can just do: cd ~/Library/Application Support/TextMate/Bundles/ ; git clone git://github.com/ashgti/perl-tmbundle.git Perl.tmbundle
15:29 colomon ash_: sorry, got distracted reading about "Cubase64", doing modern digital audio on a Commodore 64 (sort of).
15:30 colomon oh, cool.
15:30 frettled hudnix: I think [particle] or someone else made one, which was in the pugs repository, but maybe it is in the P6 misc section on github now.
15:30 ash_ and re-start textmate (or reload bundles)
15:30 hudnix frettled: thanks
15:31 colomon ash_: so what should look better now?
15:31 colomon multi method recognized as keywords, it looks like...
15:32 ash_ well, http://gist.github.com/611732 is what i have been trying to get it to highlight properly
15:32 colomon the thing that has been giving me fits is hyper ops.
15:32 hudnix dancing links takes just under 5 minutes to find all 288 ways to place 6 '1's on a 6x6 sudoku, but segfaults trying to place 9 '1's on a standard 9x9 sudoku
15:32 ash_ ya, class is a keyword, it should recognize package names if you do: Foo.bar (Foo is the package component of that)
15:32 ash_ haven't tried those yet
15:33 colomon ash_++ # looks like a definite improvement!
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15:33 ash_ if you have any issues you want me to address i am starting to get the hang of how textmate does all its syntax highlighting
15:33 ash_ oh, the symbol list should be better too
15:33 * [Coke] sees he's been beaten to the sudoku solver.
15:33 * [Coke] is far too lazy.
15:34 ash_ err, just checked the symbol list, i think i broke it again, ill look into that
15:34 ash_ it had the symbols sorted properly before, but i broke it some how, hmm...
15:36 frettled hudnix: Hrm, sorry, I can't find it there.  Let me see.
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15:37 frettled hudnix: util/cperl-mode.el in the pugs repository, I think
15:39 frettled hudnix: and it was renormalist++ who did it.
15:41 frettled hudnix: This one may also work: http://github.com/jrockway/cperl-mode
15:41 ash_ colomon: can you give me an example of syntax that doesn't look right to you in textmate? and maybe a suggestion to what you think would look better? you mentioned hyper ops
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15:47 colomon ash_: if you do <<*<< (say), textmate thinks it's a p5 << string
15:47 colomon everything else I've just looked at looks pretty nice with your version.
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15:48 ash_ kk
15:48 ash_ i'll see if i can fix that one
15:49 ash_ so... what would that look like: @arr<<*<<(&say)  ?
15:49 TimToady std: @arr<<*<<(&say)
15:49 p6eval std 237d266: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unable to parse quote-words subscript; couldn't find right double-angle quote at /tmp/zeDb52Amxr line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32m@arr<<*<<(&say)[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
15:50 jnthn I think the (say) was meta :P
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15:50 ash_ oh
15:50 ash_ i am not yet familiar with how to use hyper ops in practice
15:50 jnthn ash_: If I was feeling cruel I'd suggest
15:51 colomon ash_: oh, oh, the (say) was text, not p6 code!
15:51 jnthn say "$x.foo(Bar.new("lol"))"
15:51 jnthn ;-)
15:52 jnthn std: class Bar { }; my $x; say "$x.foo(Bar.new("lol"))"
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15:52 p6eval std 237d266: OUTPUT«ok 00:03 118m␤»
15:52 colomon anything with a << in it comes out wrong in textmate -- unless you're actually doing a string that way.
15:53 TimToady so use « like yer sposta
15:53 ash_ lol
15:53 PerlJam or teach textmate LTM
15:53 colomon TimToady has a point, « works fine.
15:54 colomon oooo, looks like my << to « trick was specific to my version of textmate's perl bundle.
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16:13 ash_ where are the numeric literals' speced? S02?
16:14 TimToady S02:3119
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16:30 ash_ std: 0d10e5;
16:30 p6eval std 237d266: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Whitespace is required between alphanumeric tokens at /tmp/eCFO2V1oS2 line 1:␤------> [32m0d10[33m⏏[31me5;[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/eCFO2V1oS2 line 1:␤------> [32m0d10[33m⏏[31me5;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤  POST␤   bracketed infix␤
16:30 p6eval ..infix or …
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16:45 ash_ hmm does vim support << and >> ? it seems confused to me
16:50 flussence as vim commands or in p6 code?
16:51 flussence (both seem fine on mine...)
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16:56 shortcircuit hudnix, PerlJam: We're finally drafting a page with guidelines on how to create tasks, so FYI: http://rosettacode.org/wik​i/Rosetta_Code:Add_a_Task
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17:00 ash_ flussence: as syntax in a pl file, as hyper ops not as here-docs
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17:01 flussence oh, the *other* type of << >>s...
17:01 flussence .oO( or other-other )
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17:03 flussence it highlights >>+>> the same as »+» for me, but strangely ». doesn't seem to work.
17:04 flussence I'm using the perl6.vim from vim-perl 7d9b2acba11, if it makes any difference
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17:11 ash_ flussence: thats what  i am using in my vim, i am just trying to see if i can fix the highlighting in textmate, was going to see how perl6.vim figured it out
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17:12 ash_ perl6 test suite S13-overloading/metaoperators.t looks funny to me
17:12 ash_ maybe there is an update to vim-perl
17:13 ash_ oh, ya, mines out of date
17:13 flussence oh, I see
17:13 flussence it's messed up for me too
17:13 ash_ hmmm, still not right
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17:15 flussence seems like the <<>>/Z/R/X stuff works fine for simple things like +-/*, but not for things with text names...
17:18 flussence oh, the infix operators are hardcoded at line ~180
17:18 flussence that'd explain it
17:23 PerlJam when parrot switches to git, will build/PARROT_REVISION switch to mean "you must have exactly this revision"?
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17:25 flussence it might be nicer to use `git submodule` instead once it's available
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17:31 flussence (that would mean I could run `git clean` instead of having to re-checkout the entire parrot repo to do a clean build...
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17:31 flussence # s/$/)/
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17:38 PerlJam flussence: you'll probably have to do "git clean -f" and also run "make realclean"
17:43 sjohnson GIT!
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17:50 dukeleto PerlJam: that is a very good question that I have been thinking about
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17:58 PerlJam dukeleto: have you come to any conclusions?
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18:02 PerlJam If we have a copy of a parrot git-repo laying around we can see if the revision of parrot is a descendant of the revision mentioned in build/PARROT_REVISION
18:02 dukeleto PerlJam: most people won't have a git-svn repo
18:02 PerlJam but that's a big if
18:02 flussence (Oh, I just remembered something!)
18:02 flussence dukeleto: IIRC you're the person I need to bother about the graphs on http://smolder.parrot.org/app/graphs/start/5 not working...
18:02 dukeleto PerlJam: parrot is going to try to use "git describe" output and some shenanigans
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18:03 dukeleto flussence: hmmm, hadn't noticed that. Can you create a Trac ticket?
18:04 tadzik hi
18:04 dukeleto flussence: smolder was a huge pain to get installed and running properly
18:04 dukeleto flussence: that will require asking OSUOSL (who hosts Parrot) to fix some stuff
18:04 PerlJam dukeleto: what sort of shenanigans?
18:04 flussence ok, will do in a min...
18:04 dukeleto flussence: our smolder rss feeds have broken links in them as well
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18:15 flussence dukeleto: done, ticket #1816
18:15 dukeleto flussence++
18:15 dukeleto PerlJam: since parrot version X.2.1 can come out after X.3.0, things are not simple.
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18:16 dukeleto PerlJam: i think it is possible to get something useful by appending a data to the output of "git describe"
18:16 dukeleto PerlJam: so that the git repo won't be necessary to figure out if a recent enough parrot is present
18:16 dukeleto PerlJam: a date, I meant
18:17 mberends \o/ wifi @ Amsterdam.pm
18:17 PerlJam dukeleto: sounds workable.
18:20 dukeleto PerlJam: we shall see. The hardest part of parrot's git migration is porting the mk_language_shell/create_language scripts
18:23 tadzik why is sort returning a Parcel? :(
18:26 TimToady because most functions that return multiple values do?
18:27 tadzik hmm, for some reason I thought it should be an Array. My bad then
18:27 TimToady and because it shouldn't matter if the parcel is used in list context?
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18:28 tadzik Parcel has no munch(), that's what bothered me
18:28 TimToady @array.=sort should return an array :)
18:28 tadzik > [2,3,4].sort.WHAT
18:28 tadzik Parcel()
18:29 TimToady that's correct
18:29 tadzik rakudo: say [2, 3, 4].map($_*$_) # what's wrong here?
18:29 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in numeric context  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/ty8rZQ57SS␤Use of uninitialized value in numeric context  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/ty8rZQ57SS␤No candidates found to invoke for method 'map' on object of type 'Array'; available candidates have
18:29 p6eval ..signatures:␤:(…
18:29 TimToady no closure
18:29 tadzik ah, right
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18:31 colomon rakudo: say [2, 3, 4].map(** *)
18:31 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤HyperWhatever (**) not yet implemented at line 22, near " *)"␤»
18:31 colomon whoops
18:31 colomon rakudo: say [2, 3, 4].map(* * *)
18:31 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«6»
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18:31 tadzik yeah, *** is also bad for it
18:31 diakopter rakudo: say map * * *, 2, 3, 4
18:31 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«6»
18:32 diakopter cool
18:33 diakopter rakudo: say map * * *,2..4
18:33 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«6»
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18:54 masak hi from Amsterdam.pm! \o/
18:55 Juerd Hi from the other side of the table :)
18:56 masak oh, there you are :)
18:56 masak #phasers in 4?
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19:26 shortcircuit For whoever maintains the docs...GeSHi, the syntax highlighting system Rosetta Code uses supports turning keyword matches into URLs. That means that any instances of keywords could be links to the official documentation for that keyword. That'd be a cool feature, IMHO. We're using the 1.0.x release of GeSHi; if anyone wants to go to the trouble of building an updated lang file, they could send it to BenBE, and it'd wind up on RC and in GeS
19:26 shortcircuit (BenBE is the maintainer of GeSHi, and also manages the GeSHi install on RC's server.)
19:28 masak shortcircuit++ # nice!
19:29 shortcircuit Of course, that means writing a data structure in PHP...
19:31 ash_ shortcircuit: where can we go to find docs on how to do this?
19:32 shortcircuit sec
19:32 * shortcircuit looks for the latest and greatest docs on the subject
19:32 shortcircuit er. Phone
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19:38 shortcircuit ash_: Looks like this is the official word: http://qbnz.com/highlighter/g​eshi-doc.html#language-files
19:41 ash_ shortcircuit: i see someone has started a perl6 syntax already, i'll see if i can figure out how to add links
19:41 shortcircuit Other useful resources are #rosettacode and #geshi
19:42 shortcircuit ash_: You might grep through the language files for 'http', to find existing examples.
19:43 shortcircuit Oh, God. "Regular expressions use the PCRE syntax (perl-style), not the ereg() style!" ... and I just threw the problem at Perl geeks. What have I done?!
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19:44 ash_ oh, perl6 has a completely new regex syntax, but not all of the changes are directly backwards compatible to pcre, so doing proper syntax highlighting of perl6 code is difficult...
19:45 pythonian4000afk is now known as pythonian4000
19:46 masak to do *proper* syntax highlighting, you need something like STD.pm6.
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19:47 masak only Perl 6 can parse Perl 6.
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19:48 ash_ but, it doesn't always have to by exact, as long as your close enough that its a bit easier on the eyes i think your doing good enough
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19:52 shortcircuit masak: GeSHi language files are sourced PHP scripts...so write a Perl6 implementation in PHP, and parse from there? :P
19:53 shortcircuit Might be easiest to implement PIR in PHP, and go from there. *whistles*
19:53 masak :)
19:55 tadzik that won't do it, you need perl6.pbc anyway
19:55 tadzik . o O ( php on parrot, then force everyone to use it )
19:56 shortcircuit Plausible if Perl6 can solve this task: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/C​all_foreign_language_function
19:58 jnthn shortcircuit: See Zavolaj
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20:00 ash_ jnthn: NCI in parrot?
20:00 shortcircuit jnthn: I presume you're Jonathan Worthington? Care to solve the task I linked to? :D
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20:01 ash_ parrot has NCI built in, Zavolaj is a module that gives perl6 access to the parrot internals required to use it
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20:02 jnthn ash_: Zavolaj uses Parrot NCI
20:02 jnthn I probably shoulda read the task before suggesting it... ;-)
20:03 jnthn shortcircuit: Huh, who's he... :-)
20:03 tadzik hmm, is NCI another Parrot thing that doesn't use this neat interface, so you can use things w/o any wrappers?
20:04 jnthn tadzik: Well, in this case the Perl 6 wrapper is Very Awesome.
20:04 ash_ jnthn: create a string containing the words: "Hello World!" in that languages native format, then print it, if your calling C they suggest to use C's strdup and printf
20:04 tadzik well, I don't know how bare NCI looks. But I love it if it's awesomer :)
20:04 tadzik heh, there's no strdup in C ;)
20:05 tadzik hmm, or it is in c99?
20:05 jnthn use NativeCall; sub strdup(Str $in) { ... } returns Str is native('libc'); say strdup('hello') # or something like this
20:05 jnthn star: use NativeCall; sub strdup(Str $in) { ... } returns Str is native('libc'); say strdup('hello') # or something like this
20:05 p6eval star 2010.09: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "sub strdup"␤»
20:05 ash_ their example is calling C, i bet you could get bonus points if you called another language... wait a minute... is parrot cheating?
20:05 tadzik not at all :)
20:05 jnthn gah...I didn't have enough beer today...
20:05 jnthn star: use NativeCall; sub strdup(Str $in) returns Str is native('libc') { }; say strdup('hello') # or something like this
20:05 shortcircuit Looks like it's a POSIX thing.
20:05 p6eval star 2010.09: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤The native library 'libc' required for 'strdup' could not be located␤»
20:06 jnthn oh...
20:06 jnthn star: use NativeCall; sub strdup(Str $in) returns Str is native('glibc') { }; say strdup('hello')
20:06 p6eval star 2010.09: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤The native library 'glibc' required for 'strdup' could not be located␤»
20:06 jnthn heh
20:06 jnthn star: use NativeCall; sub strdup(Str $in) returns Str is native('') { }; say strdup('hello')
20:06 p6eval star 2010.09: OUTPUT«hello␤»
20:06 jnthn Heh :-)
20:06 tadzik :)
20:06 tadzik awesome
20:06 jnthn '' just uses the current executable to make a call in
20:06 jnthn Which, of course, has libc loaded. :-)
20:07 jnthn Anyway, there's a solution for ya. ;-)
20:07 tadzik star: use NativeCall; sub strdup(Str $in) returns Str is native('') { }; sub printf(Str $in, *@_) returns Int is native('') { }; printf(strdup('hello'))
20:07 p6eval star 2010.09: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Can not handle type Mu in an 'is native' signature.␤»
20:07 tadzik :(
20:07 tadzik star: use NativeCall; sub strdup(Str $in) returns Str is native('') { }; sub printf(Str $in) returns Int is native('') { }; printf(strdup('hello')) # I can has cheating?
20:07 p6eval star 2010.09:  ( no output )
20:07 jnthn It doesn't know how to do varargs yet.
20:08 ash_ star: use NativeCall; sub strdup(Str $in) returns Str is native('') { }; sub c_printf(Str $in) is native('') { }; c_printf(strdup('hello'));
20:08 p6eval star 2010.09: OUTPUT«Could not locate symbol 'c_printf' in native library '(resident)'␤  in <anon> at line 110:/home/p6eval/rakudo-star-2010.09/install/lib/​parrot/2.8.0/languages/perl6/lib/NativeCall.pm6␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/QEdC2_iEji␤»
20:08 ash_ hmm oops
20:08 jnthn Curious, I'd have thought that'd work.
20:08 ash_ star: use NativeCall; sub strdup(Str $in) returns Str is native('') { }; sub printf(Str $in) is native('') { }; c_printf(strdup('hello'));
20:08 p6eval star 2010.09: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &c_printf␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/4TwUrKzyRE␤»
20:08 ash_ star: use NativeCall; sub strdup(Str $in) returns Str is native('') { }; sub printf(Str $in) is native('') { }; printf(strdup('hello'));
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20:08 p6eval star 2010.09:  ( no output )
20:09 ash_ jnthn, my nci framework i wrote for the GSoC can do var_args
20:09 shortcircuit What happens if you do something in the native call that triggers, e.g. a null-pointer dereference?
20:09 jnthn shortcircuit: Segfault.
20:09 tadzik Suprise Segfault!
20:09 shortcircuit And p6eval?
20:10 jnthn Segfaults ;-)
20:10 jnthn Well, no
20:10 jnthn It spaws a Rakudo proccess to run stuff
20:10 ash_ and boom goes the dynamite...
20:10 jnthn p6eval itself is fine.
20:10 flussence it'd be nice if there was a "prefer native()" that fell back on the p6 function if it fails to load...
20:10 jnthn oooh!
20:10 jnthn flussence: File an issue on the github issue tracker for Zavolaj if you like :-)
20:10 jnthn That's quite a cool idea at first blush.
20:11 jnthn star: use NativeCall; sub printf(Str $in) returns Int is native('') { }; printf("hello\n")
20:11 p6eval star 2010.09:  ( no output )
20:11 shortcircuit In the stuff I work with at work, we have helper processes to gate off badly-written 3rd-party components that we're forced to use. Might be worth a thought. ;)
20:11 jnthn hm
20:11 jnthn I'd love to know why that printf doesn't work.
20:11 jnthn Alas, I need to pack for going to .nl tomorrow, do more slides hacking and a couple of other bits.
20:12 tadzik works in REPL
20:12 tadzik > use NativeCall; sub printf(Str $in) returns Int is native('') { }; printf("hello\n")
20:12 tadzik hello
20:12 tadzik 6
20:12 tadzik ...why 6?
20:12 shortcircuit h-e-l-l-o-null
20:12 alester joined #perl6
20:12 ash_ printf return'ed the number of caracters it wrote
20:12 shortcircuit ah
20:12 shortcircuit \n
20:12 tadzik ah, and REPL printed that, right
20:12 jnthn heh :-)
20:12 ash_ and the repl print's the value of the last expression
20:13 jnthn Ah, just a p6eval-y thing then.
20:13 jnthn Oh, I maybe shouldn't have shown people how to call arbitrary system functions with p6eval. Oops. :-)
20:13 tadzik ha-ha!
20:13 jnthn "Oh, behave!"
20:13 tadzik Starsafe.pm should forbid Zavolaj
20:14 ash_ try.rakudo.org doesn't have star's modules installed
20:16 cognominal left #perl6
20:16 tadzik Night.good
20:16 tadzik left #perl6
20:24 flussence thinking about that idea, would a separate "prefer native" even be needed? If something needs to fail there it could just specify the function body as "...".
20:24 ash_ left #perl6
20:27 jaldhar left #perl6
20:28 flussence on the other hand, I'm not sure how that'd work if someone wants it to die with an error straight away.
20:33 masak left #perl6
20:34 tylercurtis flussence: !!! is to ... as &die is to &fail
20:34 flussence I meant, if they want it to die at compile-time instead of when they try to call it
20:36 flussence (sort of how LD_BIND_NOW works)
20:43 mberends left #perl6
20:46 pyrimidine left #perl6
20:53 diakopter grrrr
20:53 diakopter don' me' w' m' vps
20:59 jnthn flussence: Not sure. The idea of an automatic fallback appealed to me more than the particular "prefer" name.
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21:42 shortcircuit I've seen mention of STD several times. What exactly is it? It sounds like a unit test suite.
21:42 sbp shortcircuit: perl6 standard grammar
21:42 sbp see http://github.com/perl6/std
21:42 tylercurtis std: foo
21:42 p6eval std 237d266: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤    'foo' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
21:43 tylercurtis shortcircuit: also available on CPAN as STD and through p6eval(only for syntax checking in that last case).
21:47 shortcircuit I remember somebody (masak?) mentioning something about the day STD builds, it'd be a magical day. Is that in reference to an effective 1.0 state of P6?
21:47 diakopter eh
21:50 shortcircuit Ah, found it.
21:50 spq1 left #perl6
21:51 shortcircuit < tylercurtis> lue: I don't think there are many Perl 6 implementations that can actually run STD. More accurately, I'm not sure if any other than viv can. Niecza is close, I think.
21:51 shortcircuit < lue> The second one is able, it'll be a special day.
21:52 Mowah left #perl6
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22:02 masak joined #perl6
22:02 diakopter hoi
22:02 diakopter mberends+masak
22:02 jnthn o/ masak
22:03 timbunce left #perl6
22:03 mberends \o/ $home sweet $home again
22:03 masak \o
22:03 masak and soon $bed sweet $bed I'd think.
22:04 awwaiid joined #perl6
22:04 jnthn Holland. Where everything in sweet like stroopwafels.
22:05 * jnthn is coming tomorrow night! o/
22:05 masak \o/
22:06 masak jnthn: departing tomorrow night from Lund and arriving .nl Thursday morning, right?
22:06 jnthn masak: aye
22:07 jnthn masak: Leaving from $dayjob in Malmo straight to Copenhagen, then it's a direct sleeper train to Utrecht from there. :-)
22:07 jnthn If it's all on time, I'll arrive just a minute to ten.
22:08 [Coke] left #perl6
22:08 jnthn .oO( I'm on board, so it'll probably be pun-ctual... )
22:08 * masak groans
22:08 jnthn masak: Have you fully procrastinated?
22:08 jnthn Or is it an ongoing proccess?
22:09 * jnthn is still procrastinating and suspects he may have to do a bit more in .nl/.fr...
22:10 masak jnthn: I'm somewhere between the planning step and the massive slideshacking step with both presentations.
22:10 jnthn ah
22:10 jnthn I'm slide-hacking on the second one.
22:11 masak when I find the tuits, I will sit down and massively output slides.
22:11 masak mberends++ keeps distracting me with nice IRL things, though :P
22:11 mberends .oO( shacking with a slide? erm)
22:12 jnthn Don't worry, it was probably just a Swedishs genitive... :-)
22:12 masak today we did the Anne Frank museum, the canals, and then Amsterdam.pm
22:12 jnthn ooh!
22:12 jnthn Pretty :-)
22:12 mberends masak++ is a good canal boat pilot. Better than me :)
22:12 jnthn hehe :)
22:12 masak or should I say ˟˟˟.pm
22:13 masak the boat was quirky, though.
22:13 masak at different points it would just go insane and turn right no matter what you did.
22:13 jnthn That doesn't sound...right.
22:13 masak we had to evolve mechanisms to compensate for that :)
22:14 masak but yeah, steering was fun.
22:14 masak I managed not to cause any major canal traffic accident or damage to the moored houseboats. \o/
22:17 * rjbs ponders porting Test::Routine.
22:19 jnthn masak: phew :-)
22:20 PacoLinux left #perl6
22:20 jnthn masak: Last time I took my mum on a boat on some lake, a storm appeared. She was terrified. I wasn't too comfortable. :-)
22:20 jnthn Managed to survive that one too. :-)
22:20 mfollett left #perl6
22:21 shortcircuit For those interested, I brought up strdup's not being C. Looking for alternate options. Discussion here: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Talk:​Call_a_foreign-language_function
22:23 masak rakudo: for 1, 2, 3 { .say }
22:23 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
22:23 masak rakudo: for 1, 2, 3 { sub foo {}; .say }
22:23 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db:  ( no output )
22:23 masak o.O
22:23 * masak submits rakudobug
22:23 masak rakudo: for 1, 2, 3 { sub foo {}; .say }; say "alive"
22:23 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«alive␤»
22:24 jnthn ...wtf...
22:24 masak yeah. not funny.
22:24 masak please don't do that.
22:24 jnthn unlol
22:24 masak I have another one.
22:24 masak rakudo: sub foo { .say }; given 42 { foo($_) }
22:24 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤  in 'foo' at line 1:/tmp/kw9WhTJse1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/kw9WhTJse1␤»
22:25 * masak submits rakudobug
22:25 jnthn erm
22:25 jnthn Not sure if that's a bug.
22:25 jnthn Does the implicit $_ apply to routines as well as blocks?
22:25 masak oh wait.
22:25 masak rakudo: sub foo($_) { .say }; given 42 { foo($_) }
22:25 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«42␤»
22:26 masak hm.
22:26 masak yeah, scratch that one.
22:26 masak that wasn't what I wanted to report.
22:26 sjohnson rakudo: for (10 .. 1) { print }
22:26 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db:  ( no output )
22:27 sjohnson anyone's thoughts about making  x .. y syntax be able to count backwards?
22:27 estrabd is now known as estrabd_afk
22:27 estrabd_afk is now known as estrabd_amf
22:27 masak sjohnson: reverse x .. y
22:27 jnthn Or use the series operator
22:27 s_mosher sjohnson, I'm strongly opposed to that for subscripts
22:28 sjohnson who mentioned anything about subscripts?
22:29 masak sjohnson: just the other day someone came onto the channel saying that the ranges being empty when y>x would actually simplify his code. I agree, and I think that's designed right.
22:29 s_mosher sjohnson, I don't want @a[4..2] to produce anything
22:30 masak rakudo: given $_ { sub foo($text) { $text }; say foo($_) }
22:30 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/AwTm3RE33r␤»
22:30 masak jnthn: what about now?
22:31 sjohnson s_mosher: i dont se ethe harm in it
22:31 sjohnson see the*
22:31 jnthn masak: Something looks rotten there.
22:31 masak rakudo: sub foo($text) { $text }; given $_ { foo($_) }
22:31 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db:  ( no output )
22:31 jnthn oh
22:31 masak rakudo: sub foo($text) { $text }; given $_ { say foo($_) }
22:31 jnthn leaky contextual?
22:31 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
22:31 masak jnthn: no idea.
22:31 jnthn Feels lajk.
22:31 * masak submits rakudobug
22:31 jnthn masak++
22:32 s_mosher sjohnson, I've written code that depends on it
22:32 masak jnthn: did I mention I passed 1024 just a day or so ago? :)
22:32 jnthn masak: Yes. :P
22:32 s_mosher I don't know if that code is correct, mind
22:32 jnthn masak: Maybe we should get you a cake with 1024 candles ;-)
22:32 masak jnthn: :)
22:35 sjohnson rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 3, 4; say ~@a[3, 1]
22:35 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«4 2␤»
22:35 sjohnson s_mosher: too late
22:35 sjohnson oh
22:35 sjohnson nevermind
22:35 sjohnson you might be right
22:35 sjohnson rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 3, 4; say ~@a[3..1]
22:35 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«␤»
22:35 sjohnson masak++'s idea will do then
22:35 sjohnson reverse technology(tm)
22:35 s_mosher yeah that's the one
22:36 masak sjohnson: I think you'll come to like that way of doing it.
22:36 masak it reads very well; you can see from a distance that the range is reversed. because it says that it is :)
22:37 masak rakudo: given $_ { sub foo($text) { $text }; say foo() }
22:37 p6eval rakudo 2ee5db: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/r8koc0WU7W␤»
22:37 masak there's just no way to please this error.
22:38 s_mosher here's where I used it http://gist.github.com/610694
22:39 ab5tract joined #perl6
22:39 masak good night, #perl6
22:40 s_mosher at some point the subscript becomes [1..0] which is a very natural way to progress to something that means [0]
22:40 jnthn night o/
22:40 sjohnson cya guys
22:40 s_mosher 'night guys
22:40 masak left #perl6
22:41 jnthn nightly smoker? Gee, I thought smoking in bed was dangerous...
22:43 ab5tract left #perl6
22:48 buubot left #perl6
22:48 TimToady with the new sequence semantics we no longer need a multi for http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Pri​mality_by_trial_division#Perl_6
22:48 kst left #perl6
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22:56 s_mosher TimToady, Perl 6 needs^Wwants a source-to-$language translator which is then verified by an independent grammar when invoked with --verify-readability
22:56 buu joined #perl6
22:56 TimToady :)
22:56 aloha left #perl6
22:57 TimToady method calls would work better in Japanese though
22:57 aloha joined #perl6
22:57 TimToady and yes, ranges are non-reversing for just the degenerate reasons you pointed out...er, that didn't come out right...
22:58 TimToady aloha, aloha
22:58 s_mosher I'm glad you agree
22:59 TimToady no, it's you that agree :P
22:59 s_mosher I was terrified that it was going to think I meant something by that
22:59 s_mosher haha :) fair point
22:59 TimToady and actually, I was just agreeing with the design of Ada
22:59 TimToady now if you'd used ... instead of .. it would have tried to dwym it
23:00 s_mosher yeah, that's fine by me
23:00 s_mosher and makes sense
23:00 TimToady it'll probably be a FAQ nonetheless
23:01 s_mosher I've been trying to solve that Thiele interpolation problem with very little success
23:01 TimToady just cheat and print out pi three times  :)
23:02 TimToady or was it four?
23:02 s_mosher 3 I think
23:02 s_mosher I got it to converge at one point, but not on the right thing
23:03 s_mosher I suspect I'm misinterpreting something
23:03 awwaiid left #perl6
23:03 s_mosher maybe I should try to understand the why and how of it before implementing it
23:04 TimToady I knew if I worked on it I'd never get my slides ready for Friday and Saturday
23:04 TimToady (probably still won't :)
23:06 * rjbs will be there Friday and expects his money's worth.
23:06 jnthn The tyrany of slide writing.
23:06 * rjbs is writing his own slides now, too.
23:07 flatwhatson left #perl6
23:07 jnthn What event is it this Fri/Sat?
23:07 rjbs Pittsburgh Perl Workshop is Sat/Sun.
23:07 jnthn Aha.
23:07 jnthn French Perl Workshop is also :-)
23:07 * jnthn going to that one.
23:07 jnthn Little nearer by ;-)
23:08 TimToady then going straight from Pitt to Tokyo...
23:08 jnthn Ooh
23:08 * jnthn woulda loved to do Tokyo again
23:09 jnthn Have fun :-)
23:09 TimToady likewise
23:10 jnthn Thanks :-)
23:10 jnthn Giving That Signatures Talk again.
23:10 jnthn And some waffle about meta-models.
23:15 * jnthn -> sleep
23:15 TimToady night
23:15 jnthn o/
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