Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-10-22

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:22 SpiceMan has anyone noticed how *horrible* planetsix.perl.org renders on IE ?
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00:25 flussence the markup on that page is... ironic
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00:27 SpiceMan ironic? is that the aim ? to look horrible on IE and ok in other browsers?
00:27 SpiceMan (just ok, nothing great :P)
00:27 flussence looking at the source, I'm amazed it renders at all...
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01:24 PerlJam Is there a time-lag for p6c?  Or a moderation bit set or something?
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02:20 Viper550 perl6?
02:20 wolfman2000 Evening. ...man, masak isn't here. drat.
02:21 wolfman2000 Viper550: I occasionally check up on this room to see how Perl6 is coming along. I know some web framework code was in development, so I wanted to check up on that.
02:21 wolfman2000 However, the main person to speak to on that, masak, isn't around right now
02:21 Viper550 catalyst?
02:21 wolfman2000 That's Perl5
02:21 wolfman2000 And...I've had issues with catalyst in the past.
02:21 wolfman2000 More of them were on me than the framework, however
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02:27 PerlJam Perl 6 is coming along nicely  :)
02:28 PerlJam Rakudo release #34 came out today.  A new Rakudo Star release is due next week.
02:28 wolfman2000 Any ETAs til...let me think of the term...well, a proper beta?
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02:29 PerlJam wolfman2000: I don't quite understand what that means.  What's "proper" to you may not be "proper" to me (or anyone else).
02:29 Util wolfman2000: Perl 6 will not have traditional alpha/beta/release cycles.
02:29 wolfman2000 Util: Please remind me of the terminology meant for here
02:31 * Util is up late with a cold; take the following with a *small* grain of salt.
02:31 wolfman2000 *nods*
02:32 Util Each Rakudo release (not R Star) strives to be production quality, without being feature-complete.
02:33 wormwood_ is now known as wormwood
02:33 Util So, if you are able to sling some customizing, and everything that Rakudo currently *does* is the feature set you need, then R is "release quality"
02:34 Util Rakudo Star adds "all parts included, no customizing skills needed" spit-and-polish.
02:35 Util If you need part of the Perl 6 spec that Rakudo does not implement yet (like threading/concurrency), then to you, Rakudo is not even pre-alpha
02:36 wolfman2000 Is there...well, a checklist of sorts to see what has been implemented?
02:36 Util If you need speed comparable to Perl 5, then Rakudo is not "release quality" for you.
02:37 Util See perl6.org
02:37 Util The "synopsis" are really the Specs, and there are linked to test results for each section of the spec.
02:37 Util Very cool
02:38 jasonmay what is the equivalent of a 4-arg select (or IO::Select) in rakudo star?
02:38 wolfman2000 okay, these docs look a bit familiar.
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02:39 Util Looking at http://perlcabal.org/syn/S06.html#Named_arguments , and clicking on "S06-signature/named-parameters.t lines 112-132"
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02:39 wolfman2000 ...not implemented yet. parsefail
02:39 wolfman2000 so named_array isn't up
02:40 Util Right! Thanks for saving me the typing!
02:41 wolfman2000 I have dabbled a bit in Perl 5 and 6 before...I can at least recognize some of the tests
02:41 Util jasonmay: I don't know. Let me look at the spec
02:43 jasonmay I guess I'm not too worried about non-blocking sockets for now
02:43 jasonmay looks like I could just use IO::Socket::INET
02:43 jasonmay wnated to try my hand at learning the language by making a small MUD :)
02:44 Util jasonmay: Good, because [S32]/IO says that all forms of select() have been removed, but I do not see any mention of a replacement (like poll()).
02:45 Util [S16] is the main IO spec, but it is not complete yet.
02:46 jasonmay I really like how the IO stuff is set up internally
02:46 Util jasonmay: If you built it, please let us know. You will have some performance/size issues in the short term, but things are improving each month.
02:47 Util We only recently started looking at performance *at* *all*!
02:48 jasonmay :)
02:48 Util I have not poked around at the IO internals, but if they are anything like the rest of the system, they are beautiful.
02:48 colomon rakudo: sub named_array(:@x) { +«@x }; say named_array(:x(3, "5", 4)).perl;
02:49 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«[3, 5, 4]␤»
02:50 Util wolfman2000, jasonmay, Viper550: dabblers should be aware of the new site: http://try.rakudo.org/ ; it has read-eval-print loop with multiline memory *in* the browser.
02:56 colomon Util, wolfman2000: Actually, the parsefail message there is nonsense.  It parses just fine atm, but the tests have normal fails.  Most of the issue seems to be that the tests expect :x to be like @x = (), but rakudo treats it as @x = Bool::True.
02:57 wolfman2000 ...I wonder if an empty array/list is supposed to be true in this language
02:57 Util colomon: thanks for the piece of mind; I grab that as a good example of something that worked, and typed before checking that it *did* work.
02:58 Viper550 me and wolfman2000 were trying to pick a scripting language for a new forum script
02:59 wolfman2000 Viper550: I don't think Perl 6 is ready for us yet
02:59 wolfman2000 It was worth a shot though. Some languages grow by leaps and bounds
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03:00 Util wolfman2000: empty array/list is false, like in Perl 5.
03:00 Viper550 he was trying to get me off doing it in php
03:00 colomon I'm starting to suspect these tests are prehistoric
03:00 Util perl6: my @a; my @b = 42; say "a" if @a; say "b" if @b;
03:00 p6eval pugs, rakudo : OUTPUT«b␤»
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03:01 wolfman2000 Viper550: I can't do everything in PHP. There is more out there.
03:01 Util perl6: my @a; say ?@a;
03:01 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
03:01 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
03:01 Viper550 I was running under an assumption that not every free web host out there is properly tuned to use scripting languages other than php
03:02 wolfman2000 Viper550: We may have to pay. Don't restrict yourself to free
03:02 Viper550 I'm trying to make this something that could be easily adopted by as many people as possible
03:07 dalek roast: 600cd40 | colomon++ | S06-signature/named-parameters.t:
03:07 dalek roast: Update fudging.
03:07 dalek roast: review: http://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/600cd403e0be6b2703ffcec9f9ee31b3503a312d
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03:27 Util colomon++
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04:40 dalek 6model: 23c1a95 | mberends++ | java/runtime/ (4 files):
04:40 dalek 6model: [java/runtime] catch up to the new Exceptions and leave_block() developments in dotnet/runtime.  The java/compiler bits are now lagging farther behind though.
04:40 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/23c1a95a78195b6ac66cb3ba05dc9b4c07f5d20e
04:45 dalek 6model: c556af5 | mberends++ | java/runtime/Rakudo/Runtime/Exceptions/LeaveStackUnwinderException.java:
04:45 dalek 6model: [java] forgot the all important LeaveStackUndwinderException
04:45 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/c556af5e88deede02c3aac2a39de0c3f4f502bbc
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05:53 sorear good * #perl6
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07:32 jnthn oh morning
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07:36 sorear hello jnthn
07:36 * jnthn digs into $dayjob...and wishes he could be hacking on NQP.NET instead :-)
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08:13 dalek niecza/master: d2f388d | sorear++ | / (3 files):
08:13 dalek niecza/master: Start port of EXPR
08:13 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/d2f388daa1dff26a36939d6495e296719e691345
08:41 mathw Morning
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09:22 masak oh hai, #perl6!
09:24 colomon o/
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09:25 masak TheDamian++ # p6l email with implementation details (even code!) in it
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09:26 mathw oh hai, masak
09:26 masak saluton, mathw.
09:26 masak \o, colomon.
09:34 moritz_ o/
09:34 jnthn o/ masak
09:35 masak \o \o
09:36 colomon o/ o/ o/
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09:47 jnthn *sigh* A version control system that doesn't detect changes to version controlled files that are made outside of the IDE is...just broken. :|
09:50 masak jnthn: which one?
09:50 colomon woah, that's beyond broken and well into junk
09:55 jnthn TFS
09:55 jnthn Yes. We just wasted an hour on a build breakage stemming directly from this brokenness.
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10:18 colomon interesting LTA error here.
10:18 colomon ah, I see
10:18 colomon "Too many positional parameters passed; got 2 but expected 1"
10:18 colomon the problem was I left the ($/) off of my action method declaration.
10:19 moritz_ well, why is it LTA?
10:19 colomon I guess it does all make sense.
10:19 moritz_ (it could include that one of the two is the invocant)
10:19 colomon moritz_: took me 30 minutes to figure out what was going on, for one thing.  :)
10:20 colomon I think including that one of the two was the invocant would definitely have helped
10:21 colomon I guess if I'd looked at the line number given, I'd have seen that it was
10:21 colomon method rest {
10:22 colomon if it had said
10:22 colomon at 'ABC::Actions::tuplet' at line 46:lib/ABC/Actions.pm
10:22 colomon called from 'ABC::Grammar::tuplet' at line 41:lib/ABC/Grammar.pm
10:23 colomon (both lines actually started with "in ABC::")
10:23 moritz_ it didn't include the name of the method that was being called?
10:23 moritz_ then it was LTA
10:23 colomon it did include it
10:23 moritz_ rakudo: say 'b'.uc("f)
10:23 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
10:23 moritz_ rakudo: say 'b'.uc("f")
10:23 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'uc'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu ;; *%_)␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/rSo3GvkQWL␤»
10:23 colomon but there wasn't any indication that that was the problem
10:23 colomon if that makes sense
10:24 colomon rakudo: sub foo { say "foo"; }; foo(10)
10:24 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤  in 'foo' at line 1:/tmp/2rBAkERPBB␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/2rBAkERPBB␤»
10:24 moritz_ rakudo: class A { method b() { } };A.new.b(3)
10:24 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 2 but expected 1␤  in 'A::b' at line 22:/tmp/Tt9D_Nj56N␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Tt9D_Nj56N␤»
10:24 colomon Like that
10:24 colomon if it had had the "no applicable candidates" message, I'd have instantly figured it out
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10:25 colomon I dunno, maybe as I do more p6 hacking it will become obvious to me.
10:25 moritz_ well, if it didn't include the method name, it's a bug
10:26 colomon but the message as is didn't make me think "the first line is the function it was trying to call"
10:26 colomon it did include the method name, but it was as part of the backtrace
10:27 colomon that made me think the problem was something called from there, not the calling of that method
10:27 moritz_ hm
10:27 colomon all the information was definitely present
10:27 colomon it's just the that form of it didn't point me at the answer
10:28 colomon in the future I'll know better (I hope)
10:28 colomon but that's why I say LTA.  :)
10:28 moritz_ feel free to submit
10:29 colomon rakudo: class A { method b() { } };A.new.b(3)
10:29 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 2 but expected 1␤  in 'A::b' at line 22:/tmp/vIlWzJwEGo␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/vIlWzJwEGo␤»
10:29 colomon rakudo: class A { multi method b() { } };A.new.b(3)
10:29 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«No candidates found to invoke for method 'b' on object of type 'A'; available candidates have signatures:␤:(Mu ;; *%_)␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/aqKYTGOUSC␤»
10:30 colomon what's the subject line to use for LTA error message in RT?
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10:43 moritz_ colomon: LTA error for ...
10:44 masak I agree about not mentioning the invocant in that error message being LTA.
10:44 masak it feels like an FAQ, even.
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10:47 moritz_ masak: my vocabulary coach now keeps state, and removes any words from the current session if it has been answered 5 times correctly in a row
10:47 masak \o/
10:47 masak that corresponds approximately to what I used to do manually when studying 汉字
10:48 moritz_ when I do it manually with cards, I have three "generations"
10:48 moritz_ one I know so well that I don't have to think about; those I set aside
10:48 moritz_ then one generation where I'm reasonably certain, but it's pretty new (or little-used) knowledge
10:48 moritz_ and one generation with new or unknown words
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10:53 masak that makes sense.
10:54 masak automating such generational handling seems to me to be the benefit of doing this on a computer.
10:57 * moritz_ has a hard time remembering that 'ski' in Norwegian is femal
10:57 moritz_ e
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11:00 masak in Swedish, not many thing nouns are female.
11:01 moritz_ well, my wife's family speaks a dialect where most nouns are male too
11:01 jnthn masak: In Swedish there isn't really female gender now though? Just common and neutered?
11:01 jnthn *neuter
11:01 masak :P
11:01 moritz_ neutralized!
11:02 masak right, we only have N and T genders, male and female being baked into the former.
11:03 jnthn aye
11:03 jnthn I guess there were three once?
11:04 * jnthn wonders if it'll ever collapse into just a single gender with a few archaic things.
11:04 moritz_ "the" is very handy :-)
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11:07 moritz_ http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=866667 the answers are hilarious :-)
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11:10 masak jnthn: aye; Wikipedia says Old Swedish had three genders.
11:10 masak masculine, feminine and neuter.
11:10 masak so we didn't really lose one; we lost two and gained one.
11:11 masak jnthn: wow, it looks complicated! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Swedish#Early_Old_Swedish_2
11:12 masak almost like Slovak or something...
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11:18 jnthn Damm, why'd you have to change it :P
11:19 masak I guess we had to bring Swedish closer to the IKEA ideal of simplicity.
11:20 jnthn I guess it does make assembling sentences easier. :P
11:20 jnthn meh, lamers
11:20 jnthn Only four cases!
11:20 jnthn Even in old Swedish.
11:20 jnthn :-)
11:20 masak :)
11:20 jnthn Slovak had six. :-)
11:20 jnthn *has
11:21 masak I think we've never been big believers in cases.
11:21 masak OTOH, the four we had, we really used to the fullest.
11:22 jnthn I fully concede that dropping them makes the langauge easier to learn. :-)
11:22 masak there's a waterbed thing going on between cases and prepositions. arguably, the latter is easier for foreigners to learn.
11:23 jnthn A word is, for most people, much easier than a set of rules.
11:24 jnthn And anyway, many uses of case in Slovak were tied to the preoposition too.
11:24 jnthn "If you use this prep, but teh following noun into the X case"
11:25 masak right. and sometimes one prep can go with many cases.
11:26 masak it's a bit like a named parameter accepting different types, through several defined multies.
11:26 masak multis*
11:26 jnthn :-)
11:26 masak see, we're almost not off-topic at all! :P
11:26 jnthn Oddly, I seem to quite naturally find myself considering them two prepositions that happen to have the same spelling.
11:26 masak huh. interesting.
11:27 jnthn It's still more interesting that debating the differences between compilers and interpreters. :P
11:27 masak I don't, but that's probably because I don't speak any such languages. not even German.
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11:56 takadonet morning all
11:56 masak takadonet: morning!
11:56 masak how are things in Canada?
11:58 takadonet masak: getting colder but good. Probably doing a presentation on Perl6 and rakudo for my lab next friday
11:58 masak \o/
11:58 masak getting colder here too.
12:00 Juerd Here too
12:00 masak "Winter is coming." -- Stark family motto
12:00 Juerd I might turn on the heating one of these days
12:01 masak I might go shopping for long johns one of these days.
12:03 * jnthn started wearing a jumper today
12:03 jnthn Bit warm in the office, but cold enough outside by now to appreciate it.
12:05 Juerd Wanna trade some warmth?
12:05 Juerd It's cold in my office
12:06 jnthn In theory, the law of thermodynamics takes care of this... :-)
12:08 masak and don't anyone dare about the second law working too slowly! :)
12:08 masak s/dare/dare complain/
12:09 Juerd Hmmm
12:10 jnthn It'd make a change from compaling about Rakudo working too slowly. ;-)
12:10 jnthn er, complaining
12:11 masak I hope Rakudo gets fast before I tire of complaining that Rakudo is slow.
12:11 masak oh wait.
12:11 masak yes, that makes sense.
12:14 takadonet Rakudo really does need to speed up :)
12:15 takadonet I can almost see the bytes change!
12:15 moritz_ jnthn++ is working on it
12:15 takadonet i know :)
12:15 masak and chromatic++
12:15 takadonet patience....
12:15 masak Rakudo needs to get faster faster! :P
12:16 jnthn It just turns out that the two stratergies I'm concurrently working on for big wins are both big tasks.
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12:17 jnthn There's not really an incremental way to swap out either a meta-model implementation or a VM. :-)
12:17 takadonet jnthn: and when they are done, the reward will be awesome!
12:17 masak (hopefully)
12:17 takadonet masak: no hopefully!
12:18 masak by all means. put your expectations on the top shelf. I won't stop you. :)
12:22 oyse Have the internal implementation of objects changed in Rakudo recently. I get a the following error when running the 02eval.t tests for blizkost: "Can't call method "HOW" without a package or object reference."
12:22 oyse s/recently./recently?/
12:29 jnthn Not so far as I know.
12:29 jnthn I havne't been working on Rakudo master of late really
12:29 jnthn And don't think anyone else will have done deep object model changes.
12:32 oyse jnthn: Do you know if the 02eval.t ever worked? I can't remember if I have gotten it to run before.
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12:36 jnthn oyse: Don't know, sorry.
12:36 jnthn sorear may know
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12:37 oyse Ok. Thanks anyway
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13:15 masak people! this is a pre-announcement!
13:15 masak on December 10th, I will make an announcement of some sort!
13:15 jnthn Oooooh
13:15 takadonet !!!!
13:16 masak it will be a kind of "event", in which one can "participate".
13:16 * jnthn marks the data in his calendar
13:16 masak stay tuned. :)
13:16 takadonet about perl6?
13:16 jnthn BEER FESTIVAL!
13:16 takadonet !!!
13:16 masak takadonet: I'm not at liberty to say... but yes, about Perl 6.
13:16 jnthn Aww. :-)
13:16 masak jnthn: you'll be able to drink beer during, I'm sure. :)
13:16 jnthn \o/
13:17 * masak goes to pre-announce on Twitter, too
13:18 frettled masak: I have a suspicion that you may have seen an episode or three of The Daily Show.  :)
13:19 masak frettled: :)
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13:19 * masak likes that show
13:19 * frettled too.
13:19 moritz_ really old, but nice obfu (p5): http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=336462
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13:41 masak speaking of events; will there be a Perl 6 Advent Calendar this year as well?
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13:42 PerlJam masak: I vote yes!
13:42 colomon yes!
13:42 masak is there something that would make it worthwhile for people who were faithful readers last year?
13:42 masak (while not reducing the value for those who are tuning in this year)
13:43 PerlJam masak: more Perly Goodness?
13:43 colomon I assumed we'd cover different topics
13:43 colomon or at least, different takes on topics
13:43 PerlJam right.
13:43 masak so, a repeat of last year, but with different topics.
13:43 mkramer what is C<$thing>?
13:44 PerlJam mkramer: a scalar?  Are you asking about the C<> notation?
13:44 masak mkramer: could you give some more context?
13:44 mkramer I'd be stoked for an advent calendar
13:44 mkramer the C<> notation
13:44 masak mkramer: that's Pod for "this is code".
13:44 mkramer for instance, in the recent "Tweaking Junctions" post
13:44 mkramer ahh, alright
13:44 mkramer thanks
13:44 masak TheDamian is very consistent in using it.
13:45 arnsholt Holy crap, it's almost time for another advent calendar
13:45 masak :)
13:45 arnsholt The last one was just a few months ago ^^
13:45 * PerlJam notes his post to p6c still hasn't made the round trip back to his mail box.
13:45 masak PerlJam: p6c has well-known inexplicable delays.
13:57 * moritz_ received it
13:58 masak oh; I did, too.
13:58 PerlJam good enough for me, I don't need another copy anyway  :)
13:58 moritz_ http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.compiler/2010/10/msg6906.html
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15:02 SpiceMan what are the pir files exactly?
15:03 rgrau_ joined #perl6
15:04 flussence parrot-assembly language
15:05 oyse SpiceMan: You can take a look here: http://docs.parrot.org/parrot/latest/html/docs/intro.pod.html
15:05 oyse SpiceMan: See under the heading instruction formats
15:06 SpiceMan ok, I wanted to take a look to hmm "core modules" ? where are they? :p
15:07 oyse SpiceMan: What do you mean by core modules?
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15:09 SpiceMan well, I come from perl5... and wanted to take a peek to "perl 6 code
15:09 timbunce left #perl6
15:09 timbunce_ is now known as timbunce
15:10 vapace joined #perl6
15:10 SpiceMan so I inferred there must be some kind of libraries, that are not exactly part of the language but provide functionality
15:10 SpiceMan like perl 5 core modules
15:10 flussence get Rakudo Star, and have a look at some of the .pm files that come with it
15:10 moritz_ SpiceMan: currently there are three kind of core modules...
15:10 SpiceMan that's what I'm looking for, exaclty
15:11 SpiceMan so, I enetered a random library dir, and it had pir files :p
15:11 moritz_ those that you don't need to load, built into the compiler (like utf8 or UNIVERSALin perl5)
15:11 moritz_ those that you need to load, but that ship with the compiler (only Test.pm at the moment)
15:11 flussence (they *were* pretty deep down the filesystem tree, last time I checked...)
15:11 moritz_ and those that only ship with distributions, not with the compiler
15:11 masak Set.pm will be of the second type, too. loading it will get you Unicode operators.
15:12 moritz_ maybe I should blog about that
15:12 masak moritz_: yes, please.
15:12 masak also, please find good terminology distinguishing the three types of core. :)
15:13 flussence Unicode? as in, all that nice-looking stuff around U+2200ish?
15:15 masak :)
15:15 flussence (somehow I guessed the right number!)
15:15 masak *all* of it!
15:15 flussence wow
15:15 SpiceMan so, lets say for example, I'd like to implement a fastcgi module in perl 6... that'd be a ... third kind core module?
15:16 masak it could be, yes.
15:16 flussence that sounds right, if it's core at all.
15:16 masak that'd be one nice thing to include in a distribution.
15:16 masak and note that anyone can create a distribution.
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15:17 moritz_ currently the Rakudo * philosophy is to include what's useful for the user
15:17 moritz_ that's not very specific, but that's OK since our module portfolio isn't that huge yet
15:17 SpiceMan that varies greatly among users
15:17 SpiceMan right
15:18 moritz_ people come here and ask "is there a module for $JOB?"
15:18 moritz_ so we see a demand for certain things
15:18 SpiceMan what's the popular demand?
15:18 moritz_ non-blocking IO and events
15:18 SpiceMan I though of fastcgi because I saw libraries/CGI/Hashsomething and not fastcgi thing
15:18 moritz_ WEB-ish stuff like CGI, templates
15:18 moritz_ database access
15:18 SpiceMan a POE/IO::Async kind of thing?
15:19 moritz_ right
15:19 SpiceMan that's lot of work
15:19 moritz_ or AnyEvent or Ev or whatever your favorite solution in p5 is
15:19 moritz_ indeed
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15:21 SpiceMan ok, I'm kind of a average coder, and looking for someone project to contribute :p
15:21 SpiceMan stuff like parser, compilers etc are above me, right now
15:21 moritz_ I started a Perl 6 port of CGI::Application
15:21 moritz_ it needs a lot of work, like modules for handling cookies, integration with template engines etc.
15:22 plainhao is there a separate cpan for perl6 modules?
15:22 moritz_ http://github.com/moritz/CGI-Application if you're interested
15:22 moritz_ plainhao: not yet
15:22 SpiceMan moritz_: I'll take a look, won't promise anything
15:22 SpiceMan I guess I'll have to get the hang of p6 first
15:22 plainhao moritz_, does that mean there are plans to have a separate perl 6 cpan?
15:22 moritz_ plainhao: http://modules.perl6.org/ and one or two module installers
15:22 plainhao thanks, moritz_
15:23 moritz_ plainhao: well, we'll try to re-use as much of the p5 cpan as possible
15:23 moritz_ but it's not clear to us yet to which extend that'll work
15:23 SpiceMan btw: where can I sign to get rid of camelia ? :p
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15:24 SpiceMan nevermind
15:24 masak where's hugme when you need it?
15:24 moritz_ SpiceMan: come up with a better logo that meets all of larry's criteria mentioned in http://github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/misc/camelia.txt#L48
15:24 moritz_ masak: pinin' for the fjords, probably
15:25 masak seems that way.
15:25 hugme joined #perl6
15:25 SpiceMan yeah, I know the requirements. I guess that's why I said get rid, not replace. at any rate, I see there's a p6-module-starter. good.
15:26 moritz_ hm, I should work on the module starter again
15:26 moritz_ it might not work well right now
15:26 moritz_ ETOOMANYPROJECTS
15:26 tadzik moritz_: how about adding it to Module::Tools one day?
15:26 tadzik It's a Module::Tool
15:26 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
15:27 tadzik good morning pmichaud
15:27 moritz_ tadzik: good idea
15:27 SpiceMan moritz_: to be fair. it *does* say "initial perl 6 module starter"
15:27 am0c left #perl6
15:27 SpiceMan maybe that's a better place to start with
15:27 SpiceMan (for me, I mean)
15:27 tadzik SpiceMan: oh, you want to read my blag toast
15:28 tadzik SpiceMan: http://ttjjss.wordpress.com/2010/08/09/so-you-want-to-write-a-perl-6-module/
15:28 SpiceMan good
15:28 SpiceMan I'll take a look
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15:31 masak I wish this blog post had comments, so I could point out that it is wrong, and why: http://www.polettix.it/perlettix/id_perl6-junction
15:35 tadzik hmm, I could add some mbuild info to that blogpost
15:35 pmichaud I need to come up with a name for a new blog (for me).
15:36 pmichaud masak++ already took "Strangely Consistent" (an awesome blog name, btw :-)
15:36 masak :)
15:36 moritz_ what about "Strangly Inconsistent"? :-)
15:36 masak pmichaud: "Consistently Strange"? :P
15:36 pmichaud heh
15:37 pmichaud "Inconsistently strange" sounds like me.
15:37 Schwern joined #perl6
15:37 moritz_ pumpking juice
15:37 uniejo joined #perl6
15:37 pmichaud I've been thinking about using the name of my Lego Rock Band:  "Plastic Flame"  :-)
15:37 masak :)
15:38 masak pmichaud: I think you should call the blog "Burn, Pop-Tart, Burn" :)
15:39 am0c joined #perl6
15:40 masak alternatively, something to do with grapes.
15:43 moritz_ why grapes?
15:43 masak http://www.pmichaud.com/grape/
15:44 justatheory joined #perl6
15:44 moritz_ "grapes are just unfermented wine"
15:44 pmichaud aha!  "Unevenly Distributed"
15:44 masak \o/
15:44 jnthn :-)
15:45 masak as in the future, Perl 6, and waterbeds! :)
15:47 jnthn The Perl 6 team. Strangely consistent, unevenly distributed and with 6 guts. :-)
15:47 meppl left #perl6
15:49 * masak likes obra++'s "Perl 5 is Alive!" at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECSu5Pu0qlk
15:52 pmichaud I like "Unevenly Distributed", but it's a bit longish.  I'd generally tend towards something shorter.
15:52 masak "Chunky Future"
15:54 moritz_ http://github.com/moritz/perlgeek.de/blob/master/source/blog-source-en/perl-6/how-core-is-core.txt any feedback before I publish?
15:54 * masak reads
15:55 masak moritz_: in connection with Perl 5, maybe mention "dual-life".
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15:55 pmichaud yes, "dual-life" makes sense
15:55 moritz_ masak: how do they fit into the Perl 6 picture?
15:56 MayDaniel left #perl6
15:56 masak moritz_: Perl 6 avoids that problem by pushing things further from the core-most core.
15:56 pmichaud I'm not sure that we "avoid the problem" so much as we accept that it's going to happen and figure out ways to mitigate it.
15:57 masak yes, that's a better way of saying it.
15:57 masak "try to avoid", "partially avoid"
15:57 masak "try to partially avoid"
15:57 pmichaud blog name:  "Partially Avoided"
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15:57 pmichaud "Partially Void"
15:58 pmichaud "Practically Void"
15:58 masak would need to be "Practically Sink" :P
15:58 tadzik Unevenly Void
15:59 masak pmichaud: maybe "Sink Context" is a good blog name. it's a bit like "tail -f blog > /dev/null" that I've seen somewhere.
15:59 pmichaud Hmmmmm
16:00 SpiceMan signed void
16:01 Ross joined #perl6
16:01 tadzik Sink Distributed
16:01 MayDaniel joined #perl6
16:01 mberends joined #perl6
16:01 tadzik or Void Distributed, in this type
16:01 moritz_ paragraph on dual life modules added; published
16:02 moritz_ masak++
16:02 mberends \o/ yayitsweekend!
16:02 masak moritz_++
16:02 masak yayitsmberends! \o/
16:02 moritz_ the Perl 6 ship - we Sink distributedly
16:02 moritz_ SCNR
16:02 masak "Sink Unevenly"
16:03 masak pmichaud: "The Waterbed Theory"
16:03 pmichaud "Perl 6 -- we really do have a sink."
16:03 * justatheory <- in waterbed
16:03 masak std: KitchenSink
16:03 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
16:03 masak std: Waterbed
16:03 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Undeclared name:␤    'Waterbed' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 117m␤»
16:04 moritz_ justawaterbedtheory!
16:05 SpiceMan about core modules... space is cheap.
16:05 moritz_ right; but people's time is not.
16:05 tadzik it's about maintemancemanship I think
16:05 moritz_ right
16:05 masak right.
16:05 moritz_ it's also about stability
16:05 masak pmichaud: "My Bikeshed is Blue"
16:06 SpiceMan uhm
16:06 tadzik also, Star ships plenty of modules
16:06 tadzik but they are like "we don't come with any warranty, beware"
16:08 risou joined #perl6
16:08 masak pmichaud: "$pm.blog( all @thoughts )"
16:09 SpiceMan tadzik: isn't that always the case with open source? :)
16:09 masak pmichaud: "OH HAI" :)
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16:10 tadzik SpiceMan: well, Perl 5 core modules get tested, and stuff :)
16:10 masak pmichaud: "Spunky little sister"
16:10 tadzik also, 2010.09 is around 10-30% faster than the last one
16:10 masak pmichaud: http://spunkylittlesister.org/ is still available :)
16:11 pmichaud still a bit too long for me, though :)
16:11 masak "Spunky"
16:11 tadzik Spunky Sis
16:11 masak \o/
16:11 pmichaud also, I'm thinking the blog may be more than just perl 6 articles
16:12 masak then you should call it "Re:"
16:12 moritz_ maybe we should rename Perl 5 to "spicy perl" and Perl 6 to "spunky perl" *SCNR*
16:12 Juerd SpiceMan: Well, for all my open source software, the user can get a full refund if they don't like it. (Of course, only when they got it directly from me.)
16:12 vapace_ left #perl6
16:12 masak moritz_: that's not a half-bad idea. I like it better than "Camelia Perl".
16:13 pmichaud does Yapsi have a warranty?  ;-)
16:13 * dukeleto waves
16:13 masak we guarantee that you'll enjoy it fully, or get an official apology.
16:13 tadzik dukeleto: o/
16:13 SpiceMan doh, now I get it. i did git clone git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git
16:13 SpiceMan so I have rakudo, not rakudo star?
16:13 moritz_ SpiceMan: correct
16:14 masak SpiceMan++ # level up!
16:14 moritz_ SpiceMan: http://github.com/rakudo/star/downloads for the Star release
16:14 jnthn masak: I'm tempted to fail to enjoy it now just to see if the official apology is as entertaining as the release notices. :-)
16:14 masak jnthn: all part of the plan. that means you'll try it out :P
16:14 * moritz_ wonders if he broke the yapsi build on p6eval
16:15 pmichaud <off-topic>  One of the downsides to supporting any political campaign for office is that you're then innundated with kooky email that assumes you're hyper-partisan.  </off-topic>
16:15 masak jnthn: (the official apologies are *awesome*)
16:15 jnthn Vote pmichaud!
16:15 moritz_ yapsi: say 1
16:15 p6eval yapsi: OUTPUT«sh: /home/p6eval/rakudo-alpha/parrot_install/bin/alpha: not found␤»
16:15 masak alpha?
16:15 SpiceMan no wonder there was barely anything there :p
16:15 masak that's a long time ago.
16:15 jnthn nqpnet: say("ENOTYET")
16:15 jnthn :-)
16:16 masak pmichaud: "»-partisan" :)
16:16 vapace joined #perl6
16:17 p6eval left #perl6
16:17 dalek evalbot: cbc39d2 | moritz++ | evalbot.pl:
16:17 dalek evalbot: yapsi now runs on current rakudo, masak++ says
16:17 dalek evalbot: review: http://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/cbc39d219b7b83ba74c0af2a8e8d1ae1a1fd927b
16:17 moritz_ yapsi: say 1
16:17 moritz_ ugh, reconnect slow
16:17 p6eval joined #perl6
16:17 moritz_ yapsi: say 1
16:17 p6eval yapsi: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'Yapsi' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤  lib␤  /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤  /home/p6eval/p1/lib/parrot/2.9.1-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤  .)␤»
16:18 moritz_ huh
16:18 envi left #perl6
16:18 moritz_ the command line has PERL6LIB=lib in front of it
16:21 zostay left #perl6
16:21 masak what about the current directory?
16:21 moritz_ what about it?
16:21 mkramer joined #perl6
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16:21 masak does it equal the directory that contains the lib/ directory?
16:21 zostay joined #perl6
16:21 moritz_ no
16:22 moritz_ oh
16:22 moritz_ I hope so
16:22 mkramer what if, instead of trying to statically analyze code to see if it can be parallelized, we were allowed to annotate loops, blocks, and subroutines as "pure"
16:22 masak mkramer: 'hyper'
16:23 masak S02:4519
16:23 masak pmichaud: maybe just call the blog "Already Spec" :P
16:23 masak pmichaud: or "Sixth Sense"
16:24 vapace left #perl6
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16:26 moritz_ Sixth Nonsense!
16:26 masak *lol*
16:31 mkramer masak: I don't see how hyper operators are what I'm talking about
16:31 mkramer or HyperWhatever
16:31 pmichaud mkramer: I think he's referring to the "hyper" keyword/function.
16:31 masak mkramer: then you should read the S02 reference I gave you.
16:31 Axius joined #perl6
16:31 pmichaud S02: "A variant of C<eager> is the C<hyper> list operator, which declares
16:31 pmichaud not only that you want all the values generated now, but that you want
16:31 pmichaud them badly enough that you don't care what order they're generated in.
16:31 pmichaud That is, C<eager> requires sequential evaluation of the list, while
16:32 lucs joined #perl6
16:32 pmichaud C<hyper> requests (but does not require) parallel evaluation. ...
16:33 pmichaud the idea is that   "map &block, @list"   would run sequentially, while  "hyper map &block, @list"  is an explicit indication that the map operation is "pure" and can be executed in parallel
16:34 nymacro left #perl6
16:34 mkramer Alright, now we're on the same page
16:34 cognominal joined #perl6
16:35 mkramer however, I would rather have the option at annotating at a higher level
16:35 mkramer if I've annotated methods/subs as pure
16:36 mkramer method foo is pure { ... };
16:37 moritz_ but what does "pure" actually mean?
16:37 moritz_ is it still pure if it reifies parts of a lazy list?
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16:39 mkramer I think so
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16:40 masak I see a "pure"/hyper annotation as something saying "if there are side effects, I'm taking personal responsibility".
16:41 mkramer at least, I should be able to say "I'm TELLING you that this is pure, so just treat it like it is"
16:41 masak exactly.
16:41 masak is not so much about annotating purity as not caring about possible side effects.
16:41 pmichaud it's more like telling the compiler "you can optimize more aggressively by ignoring the possibility of side-effects"
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16:44 mkramer It could be more than that
16:45 mkramer hyper gather for @objects { take $^a.MethodNotMarkedAsPure() } ;
16:45 mkramer could be a warning
16:46 pmichaud no, because you said "hyper"
16:46 pmichaud "hyper" is explicitly telling the compiler "I'm taking over here."
16:46 moritz_ you really want @objects>>.MethodNotMarkedAsPure()
16:46 masak I'm not sure gather can ever be hyper.
16:46 mkramer how can I hyper >>?
16:46 masak 'for' can be, but not 'gather'.
16:47 vapace left #perl6
16:47 mkramer the spectest needs updating then
16:47 moritz_ masak: >> is hyper
16:47 mkramer http://github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master/S03-metaops/eager-hyper.t#L34-L44
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16:47 masak moritz_: tab fail?
16:47 moritz_ yes, meant mkramer
16:47 moritz_ mkramer: correct, that test ist out of date
16:48 masak it feels dissonant to me to put 'hyper' (or 'eager') there.
16:48 moritz_ mkramer: do you have a github ID? if yes, what is it?
16:48 masak the 'take' mechanism of 'gather' is sequential in nature.
16:48 moritz_ masak: spectest are not about taste, but about exploring special cases
16:49 pmichaud masak: you'd accept     gather hyper for @objects { take $^a.method; }      ?
16:49 masak pmichaud: yes.
16:49 masak moritz_: I'm not making a judgement about taste, I'm making a judgement about the physically possible.
16:50 moritz_ masak: well, hyper() doesn't guarantuee parallelism
16:50 takadonet http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/duxm5/how_core_is_core/
16:50 masak moritz_: and yet we agree that the test is out of date?
16:50 isBEKaml joined #perl6
16:50 moritz_ masak: yes
16:50 mkramer moritz_: I just created a github account - name masonk
16:50 masak moritz_: I fail to follow, then.
16:51 mkramer moritz_: would you like me to update the spectest?
16:51 masak moritz_: do you think that putting 'hyper' before 'gather' means anything at all?
16:51 masak if so, what?
16:51 moritz_ mkramer: yes please; you have commit access now
16:51 am0c joined #perl6
16:51 moritz_ masak: I think it's the same as 'eager', plus losing the guarantuee of sequentiality
16:51 mkramer let's wait until this conversation plays out :)
16:51 vapace left #perl6
16:52 masak moritz_: please explain to me how the contents of an arbitrary gather loses the "guarantee of sequentiality".
16:52 am0c left #perl6
16:53 mkramer do you mean: what is the guarantee of sequentiality?
16:53 masak no, I get what it is. for a 'for' loop. or a 'map'.
16:53 masak not for a 'gather'.
16:53 masak a 'gather' is not in itself a looping construct.
16:53 moritz_ hm, right
16:53 masak it's just a block with some special 'take' semantics.
16:54 pmichaud actually, it is a looping construct internally
16:54 moritz_ masak: but it could hand on the hyperness to its inner context
16:54 masak pmichaud: if it is, it's not one that can "lose sequentiality".
16:54 pmichaud masak: I agree with that.
16:54 masak moritz_: right. but that's sugar.
16:54 masak moritz_: then it means something else.
16:55 moritz_ hm...
16:55 masak I don't think I'd like that kind of sugar, by the way.
16:55 masak what if there are two for loops inside?
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16:55 pmichaud I agree with masak++ here.
16:55 masak or three, but on different nesting depths?
16:55 moritz_ gather { hyper for { .&take } } # would produce weird results
16:55 moritz_ ok, I'm with masak++ too
16:56 masak hokey. time for noms, then.
16:56 masak o/
16:56 masak left #perl6
16:56 pmichaud yes, nom here also
16:57 moritz_ mkramer: so likely the tests are OK after all
16:57 isBEKaml rakudo: for ^10 { (<une dos tres>).pick(1).say }
16:57 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«une␤une␤dos␤dos␤tres␤tres␤une␤dos␤dos␤dos␤»
16:57 isBEKaml rakudo: for ^10 { (<une dos tres>).pick(1).say }
16:57 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«une␤tres␤dos␤une␤dos␤dos␤tres␤une␤une␤tres␤»
16:58 isBEKaml .pick is not _very_ random, is it? :)
16:58 mkramer moritz_: there's still "    my @test = hyper gather { for 1 .. 5 { $counter++; take $_; } }; " in the spectest
16:59 isBEKaml [logs] wow, just when I was thinking I could start off where I left off of yapsi, there's some talk of it! :)
16:59 moritz_ isBEKaml: what's not very random about it?
16:59 moritz_ mkramer: we just came to the conclusion that 'hyper gather' has no effect, becase gather isnot a looping construct
17:00 isBEKaml moritz_: I'm not sure, it just repeats the same thing the first time you try that.
17:00 isBEKaml I guess I don't have much entropy (does .pick use the system entropy? )
17:00 mkramer moritz_: right, so why is "hyper gather" in the spectest?
17:00 moritz_ isBEKaml: une␤une␤dos␤dos␤tres␤tres␤une␤dos␤dos␤dos␤ ne une␤tres␤dos␤une␤dos␤dos␤tres␤une␤une␤tres
17:00 Axius left #perl6
17:01 moritz_ mkramer: probably because of a misunderstanding of the original author
17:01 estrabd left #perl6
17:01 moritz_ mkramer: still I think the tests are correct, even if they don't make very much sense
17:01 moritz_ better tests welcome!
17:02 estrabd joined #perl6
17:02 isBEKaml moritz_: not to pick(pun intended), but I was curious how .pick does it.
17:03 moritz_ isBEKaml: afaict it seeds the PRNG with the current timestamp
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17:06 * isBEKaml is surprised at how much memory the repl consumed. 79 megs of free space shot up to 409 megs soon after quitting the repl.
17:06 zostay joined #perl6
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17:07 tadzik isBEKaml: they're still tuning the new gc I think
17:07 isBEKaml tadzik: saw that. Still I was surprised. I never looked at "free" all this time I ran the repl.
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17:22 tadzik isBEKaml: not monitoring memory usage makes tadzik a happy boy :)
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20:43 diakopter sorear++ excellent verbosication of EXPR
20:44 MayDaniel joined #perl6
20:45 diakopter verbosification
21:00 tadzik jnthn: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/9445e1 is there a pun in the commit message, or you accidentally a summary? :)
21:01 jnthn tadzik: As if I'd pun. ;-)
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21:03 sorear diakopter: huh, I hadn't really thought of what I was doing as verbosification
21:04 sorear I just wanted to get rid of the last LABEL dependency
21:04 diakopter I suppose I should've said  clarification
21:04 sorear good * #perl6
21:05 sorear moritz_: talk to sartak about spaced repetition systems
21:08 Tene supermemo ftw
21:08 Tene wtc.
21:08 Tene etc.
21:09 * jnthn has various iPhone apps that do spaced repetition.
21:09 pothos_ joined #perl6
21:09 jnthn (for learning language vocab)
21:10 jnthn Seems to sorta work for me. :-)
21:11 pothos left #perl6
21:24 moritz_ sorear: huh?
21:24 moritz_ sorear: what's the context?
21:24 moritz_ ah
21:25 moritz_ "my" system seems to work fine for now
21:25 moritz_ let's see how it scales for more vocabs
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21:28 dalek 6model: 3d934db | jnthn++ | dotnet/runtime/ (6 files):
21:28 dalek 6model: [dotnet] Add storage of exception handlers per block, sketch out a couple of ops for searching for exception handlers lexically and dynamically and a few other bits of stubbing in.
21:28 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/3d934db2b5712ab30bf866ab4cc22b5ae300d076
21:28 dalek 6model: 973c96d | jnthn++ | / (3 files):
21:28 dalek 6model: [dotnet] Somewhat reluctantly move KnowHOWAttribute out of NQPSetting and into core. Having meta-object bodies and things that need them at BEGIN time in the same compilation unit doesn't work out and is blocking other progress.
21:28 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/973c96d9275f79c761616b79618b7783015c62ab
21:34 dalek 6model: 6a07cb2 | jnthn++ | common/NQP/NQPSetting.pm:
21:34 dalek 6model: [common] Stub in a simple NQPException exception object and a die sub.
21:34 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/6a07cb256cf55cc44926a4ccb6038441655f5237
21:34 dalek 6model: 19770eb | jnthn++ | dotnet/runtime/Runtime/Ops.cs:
21:34 dalek 6model: [dotnet] Add a missing null check to the exception handler locators. We can now die.
21:34 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/19770eb4f4bff4c6c405a782a7be7703b7f8c350
21:38 sftp left #perl6
21:45 diakopter We can now die.
21:46 jnthn I shoulda added parens. :P
21:47 tadzik :)
21:47 tadzik looks like "Whew, it's over"
21:50 icwiener left #perl6
21:51 tadzik changing for(1..100000) to loop (my $i = 0; $i < 100000; $i++) cut the execution time in about a half
21:51 tadzik (and I don't think this one last iteration caused this :))
21:51 colomon tadzik: that's completely expected at this point, alas.  :(
21:51 tadzik I know :(
21:52 PerlJam I didn't expect it.
21:52 PerlJam Now my brain is out of callibration.
21:52 tadzik I have this stupid tests, in Perl 5, PIR, NQP and Perl 6. Only bare PIR is faster than Perl 5 atm, which is promising anyway :)
21:52 colomon jnthn: I've been meaning to try to combine spaced repetition with an Irish tunes database.
21:52 jnthn "Know your Irish tunes!"
21:53 jnthn colomon: Trouble is, you'd keep getting tempted to forget about the ones you like, so you get to hear them more often. ;-)
21:54 PerlJam tadzik: are you sure PIR is faster than Perl 5?  Maybe it was an anomalous execution?  Did you run it 20 times and calculate some statistics on the results?
21:54 PerlJam :-)
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21:55 dalek 6model: 06d78a2 | jnthn++ | common/NQP/NQPSetting.pm:
21:55 colomon jnthn: nah, focus would be on remembering how to play them.  the ones I really like I play all the time anyway.  :)
21:55 dalek 6model: [common] Start to stub in a very barebones ClassHOW. This is enough that class Foo { } works.
21:55 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/06d78a2f18f684bc55ff274e2f6936ed532ceadc
21:56 jnthn Oh, I see!
21:57 jnthn Playing, not recognizing. :-)
21:57 tadzik PerlJam: no, it really is :)
21:58 tadzik like 2 times faster
21:58 tadzik http://wklej.org/id/405567/
21:58 PerlJam That's just noise.
21:59 PerlJam (I won't actually believe it until there's an order of magnitude involved  :)
21:59 tadzik that's just [+] (1..100000) :)
21:59 moritz_ hm, we should optimize [+] Range
21:59 tadzik so that "benchmark" will go faster? :)
22:00 moritz_ yes :-)
22:00 moritz_ it's also something that people actually use
22:00 tadzik but yeah, you're right. It'd even go faster than my loop () {} now :)
22:00 tadzik is [+] Range just Range.sum?
22:01 tadzik or is it some compiler magic I dunno how to touch? :)
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22:02 moritz_ [+] is, on the first level, just a dispatch to prefix:<[+]>
22:03 tadzik it'd have to be added to Range.pm, yep?
22:03 patspam left #perl6
22:03 moritz_ it's not that easy... the metaop logic will create a prefix:<[+]> if it doesn't exist
22:04 moritz_ but if you define one, you'll destroy the automatically generated one, unless you take special care
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22:17 dalek 6model: 52f9692 | jnthn++ | dotnet/runtime/Metamodel/ (2 files):
22:17 dalek 6model: [dotnet] Fail! .^find_method's signature should be :($obj, $name), not just :($name).
22:17 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/52f9692dceb30346314d30eab9230038382d1c56
22:17 dalek 6model: 4356d78 | jnthn++ | common/NQP/NQPSetting.pm:
22:17 dalek 6model: [common] Add a VERY hacky but working version of method addition and dispatch into ClassHOW. Not even any inheritance yet. Mostly, it's got lots of TODOs for stuff I need to do next.
22:17 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/4356d783155f5e28970cb7469e5371613367fa4c
22:18 jnthn A minor landmark of sorts. :-)
22:22 dalek 6model: 26184ae | jnthn++ | dotnet/runtime/Runtime/Exceptions/ExceptionDispatcher.cs:
22:22 dalek 6model: [dotnet] Sketch out exception handler invocation, resume/don't resume decision and stack unwind call if needed.
22:22 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/26184ae9ac073986ab3a7099fce73a367b55cb98
22:25 sorear jnthn: here?
22:26 jnthn sorear: Kinda, though my hands are getting achey from a week of $dayjob hacking and NQP.NET hacking every day. :-)
22:26 jnthn So I think that's my last patch for tonight. :-)
22:26 jnthn Much as I'd like to do much more. :-)
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22:27 jnthn NQP.Net has reached the "addictive to hack on" phase.
22:27 sorear it's the weekend so niecza will see lots of progress :)
22:27 jnthn :-)
22:27 sorear anyways, I wanted to talk about... types
22:27 jnthn I'm taking sleeper train to England tomorrow night.
22:27 jnthn And then probably muchly offline for a few days.
22:27 jnthn OK, types. :-)
22:28 Tene jnthn: any chance I can get a commit bit on 6model?
22:28 sorear Q:CgOp { (newscalar (some_primitive (cast int (unbox num (@ {$arg1}))) (unbox str (@ {$arg2.str})))) } # I'm getting tired of writing this
22:28 jnthn Tene: yes
22:29 stkowski left #perl6
22:29 jnthn Tene: Your github handle is just "tene"?
22:29 sorear nam::some_primitive($arg1, $arg2) # I'd like to write this
22:29 Tene yes
22:29 jnthn Tene: You haz a commit bit. :-)
22:29 sorear but I'm still thinking about how I want to handle all the boxing/unboxing...
22:29 jnthn Tene: Have fun!
22:30 jnthn sorear: Hmm...what you don't want to write looks a decent bit like what I've got it as on 6model.
22:31 sorear I have a few primitive types
22:31 sorear obj - pointer to Perl 6 object
22:31 sorear var - pointer to Perl 6 container
22:31 sorear num - System.Double
22:31 sorear int - System.Int32
22:31 sorear etc
22:32 jnthn I have obj/num/int/str as primitives
22:32 sorear all Perl 6 expressions generate a low-level expression of type 'var'
22:32 jnthn Didn't yet differentiate containers.
22:33 jnthn sorear: Is that CgOp creating a new scalar with...a boxed value in? Or unboxed? Or?
22:33 timbunce left #perl6
22:33 sorear newscalar = obj in, var out
22:33 sorear with the ro bit set
22:33 sorear afk
22:34 jnthn ok
22:36 * jnthn debates whether or not to take his laptop with him to England
22:39 tadzik left #perl6
22:45 jnthn ooh i can irc from my phone :)
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23:18 pythonian4000 is now known as pythonian4000afk
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23:23 colomon jnthn: but you'll never be the first one with a pun if you have to type it out on a phone.
23:25 jnthn I dunno. Some of them, anyone else would be too ashamed to write. ;-)
23:27 jnthn Otherwise, you'll just have to get used to me being less punctual.
23:28 diakopter and less homespun
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23:42 pythonian4000afk is now known as pythonian4000
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23:50 * jnthn -> sleep

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